October 28, 2025 • 42 mins
After 11 years, Tanya’s business hums. She's got warm leads, proven offers, talented contractors. And yet… projects that should take two weeks stretch to two months because she’s the translator between client and designer. In this live diagnosis, we map a transition from “Tanya-as-critical-path” to a productized, reliable service with automated coordination, a structured client-feedback loop, and clear handoffs. We also unpack the fear behind delegating client trust - and why productizing increases value rather than commoditizing it.
What You’ll Learn
- How to design a Coordination Offload System so delivery runs without you in the middle
- A simple, automated client-feedback flywheel (template email + form + status trigger)
- Why productizing raises reliability and margin without lowering price
- Where to add a copywriter or coordinator—and where automation beats headcount
- A tiny, 90-minute action that can save 3–4 hours every month (and unstick cash flow)
Connect with Tanya
- (00:00) - Introduction: The Bottleneck Dilemma
- (00:47) - Meet Tanya Moushi: The Expertise Trap
- (01:39) - Identifying the Bottleneck
- (04:24) - Strategizing the Transition
- (08:08) - Implementing Systematic Solutions
- (40:03) - Conclusion: Creating Reliable Systems
Grab the Calm Service Design + Delivery Swipe File here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susan Boles (00:05):
You've spent a decade building expertise,
systems, a team. Clients come toyou organically. Your
contractors handle most of thework. Everything should be
running smoothly. So why doesevery project still need you in
the middle, translating betweenone team member and the client,
coordinating feedback, makingsure nothing falls through their
(00:27):
cracks?
And why does the thought ofcreating content about your
expertise, content that couldbring in more leads, actually
fill you with dread? Today we'resolving for calm one KPI, one
bottleneck, one business at atime. I'm Susan Bowles, and this
is Calm as the New KPI. Today,I'm chatting with Tanya Mushi.
(00:49):
She runs Moushi and Co.
And after eleven years inbusiness, she's become the thing
standing between her currentsuccess and her next chapter.
She's got the knowledge to shareand the systems to grow, but
she's trapped by her owncompetence. Every project gets
bottlenecked at the same place.Her. And that bottleneck isn't
(01:11):
just slowing down delivery.
It's keeping her from taking therisks that could transform her
business. It's keeping her fromselling more projects to more
clients. Now today we're goingto pull the business design
lever here a little bit. Lookingat how to move coordination out
of your head and into systemsthat actually work. Because when
you are the critical path foreverything, you can't scale, you
(01:34):
can't rest, and you definitelycan't experiment with new
directions.
All right. So we are here todayto talk about your business and
a bottleneck that you arefacing. So give me kind of the
high level who you are, what youdo, and then what are we gonna
talk about today?
Tanya Moushi (01:55):
Yes. So thank you so much for taking this on, by
the way. I super appreciate yourtime. But, yeah, I'm stuck,
Susan. So this is a good time tocome to you.
So I've had my business, Moushiand Co, for eleven years, which
I'm super grateful for. We'vecrossed that milestone. It's
been amazing. So for ten years,we've been a featured
Squarespace expert. And soSquarespace literally has just
(02:17):
featured us as an authorizedtrainer and an expert.
So I've done workshops reallyaround that platform, and it's
basically just helpingnontechnical people get online
and build a presence online.That's been the business for
years. And then around the sixyear mark, it sort of
transitioned, and I started toplay this, like, ratio game of,
like, some website builds andsystems builds and then some
(02:40):
advisement. And it's been great.I really enjoyed that.
Now I'm in a place, like, youknow, year 11 where I'm like, I
need to do something with allthis experience. I am very
clearly the bottleneck in thefulfillment process. Getting
sales has, thank god, knock onwood, been great and fairly
(03:00):
easy. You've got, like, ways toget warmer froes coming in, but
I projects that should be takingtwo weeks I'm dragging them to
two months and I have hiredcontractors which is great and
they have really helped thisprocess but now I'm in this
place where it's like okay I'vedone this service world thing
I've really enjoyed it I have alot to share around it, and I
(03:20):
want to. I want to put contentout there around service design
and building a business thatactually feels really good and
helping people that you want tohelp.
This is like a core tenet of myphilosophy. And then I want to
do some more writing andmanifestos, things like that.
It's basically all contentoriented but my fear, the real
fear that I have, is that I'mgonna put content out there and
(03:41):
people are gonna come to me forhelp. And I have no streamlined
process for that anymore withoutme being like, yes, let me help
you and then me diving intothat. And so in the past what
I've done for clients, which islike, you know, some kind of
application process or likesomething that sort of funnels
people through things.
(04:02):
But for some reason, I'm stuck.So if you can help me with this
fear and maybe help me see whatthe actual funnel might look
like, if there's a funnel or ifthere's a process or some
channel, I feel like you are theperson to see this.
Susan Boles (04:18):
So I guess how you are thinking about this new
direction, are you thinkingabout it as you've got the
agency still doing everythingthat you have been doing for the
last decade? And then this issomething is this a side
project? Is this a secondbusiness? Is this your personal
(04:40):
brand? Or are you thinking thisreplaces?
Like, how are you thinkingabout, I guess, old business,
new business, both things?
Tanya Moushi (04:51):
It's a great question. We're in such a funny
time in the industry where italmost feels like with websites
right now, it feels like insteadof, like, trying to build a
faster car, people are, like,going to need airplanes. This is
what I don't know how else todescribe this, but it's, it the
industry is changing so fast. SoI'm in this really interesting
(05:11):
place of, like, maximizingopportunity while I have it,
which is what the agency piecedoes. I do want to replace it.
But to be totally real, that isthe service side of things is
what makes everything possible.You know, that is the bread and
butter of the business. And soin replacing it, I would like to
(05:32):
do it in a strategic way whereeventually long term, it is more
content media that's makingmoney, but not without a line of
service. I think that's what itis. I do want a line of service.
Think I it just makes sense. AndI've always been, like, helping
a few people at at once. I wantto have that line of service,
(05:53):
but have the content stuffreplace a lot of it.
Susan Boles (05:56):
And when you are thinking about the future
version of whatever this ends upbeing in terms of ideal revenue
mix between content side revenuegeneration, so like
sponsorships, affiliates, ads,whatever on the content media
(06:21):
side of the house, and thenservices, maybe like digital
products or however you'rethinking about revenue, what
would the ideal mix be for you?
Tanya Moushi (06:34):
I love this question. That's so good.
Naturally, I think affiliatesand sponsorships are actually
gonna be like the big game inthe future. We have really close
partnerships with the differentsoftware companies that we work
with. So it, like, makes sense.
I would say, like, the idealsplit for me realistically is
80% sponsor affiliates and 20%services.
Susan Boles (06:57):
And of those services, what do you see those
services potentially being? Whatare you playing around with?
Tanya Moushi (07:05):
You would be proud, Susan. We do have this
down. Actually, I spent the lastfew months productizing this
and, like, sort of playing withit, but it I have productized it
a little better now at least. Sothere's something called a
digital foundation. It'sbasically just the you're having
your site up and running, havinga custom email address, having a
presence online.
So it's a digital foundation forpeople that don't have one and
(07:28):
it's really well targeted. Soit's usually experts that are in
their field that arenontechnical. They have some
good ideas and they just have noway of sharing it. There's a
sort of natural organic funnelthat happens. But, yeah, it's a
digital foundation.
That is basically the product. Ihave that process down. The
sales process is down. Thefulfillment process, it goes to,
(07:48):
like, 60%, and then I'm thebottleneck. And I'm, like,
coordinating things.
Susan Boles (07:52):
So you had mentioned at the beginning
feeling a lot of things. Fear insome of these areas. Talk to me
a little bit about that.
Tanya Moushi (08:08):
So the fear is essentially that we get the
project, and then 60% of the waythrough, I have stalled. Either
I have not coordinatedsomething, I've not communicated
something, there is somethinghappening at that, like, 70%
mark that doesn't close out theproject. And I don't know if
this is a weird emotionalproblem as Barrett Brooks will
(08:29):
say this is a emotional problemthat I'm having where there's
like just the issue of closingthe loop. But I like I can see
from a strategy standpoint howit makes sense to close the loop
and sort of funnel peoplethrough content that makes sense
for them because these clientsare fairly similar as far as the
challenges they have. But thefear is really forgetting the
(08:52):
clients is that I'm stepping inat that 60% mark.
And if I don't step in, theproject does not close.
Susan Boles (08:57):
So when you are stepping in, what are you
stepping in to do? Or where dothings get bottlenecked?
Tanya Moushi (09:09):
I think it's because I am the connector
between my designer and theclient. I used to design
everything myself, but 300websites later, I have a
designer, which is amazing, andshe's amazing, and she's better
than me in so many ways. And Icome in really strong as an
editor and a strategist. And soI'm really translating why
(09:29):
design choices were made to theclient and then communicating
what the client wants back tothe designers, which is
management, which is justsomething that is not strong for
me. And I just haven't had maybethe level of trust to delegate
that because I'm I work veryclosely with my clients.
Like, they feel like they don'thave to explain a lot. I can
(09:50):
intuit a lot, which is nice. Butof course, that creates a bit of
a bottleneck there.
Susan Boles (09:56):
So for you personally, ideally, picture
work look like? What would youideally want to be spending your
time doing?
Tanya Moushi (10:08):
The last few years, I've made a couple small
investments in companies that Ilove. I think long term, what I
would love to do is build thisportfolio of business where I
have a couple small investmentsand I have some say as an
adviser as to how they go, and Iwould love to do that long term.
I think it's so cool. It's verylike the brown female version of
(10:32):
Andrew Wilkinson long term. It'show I picture that.
That is like the long that isthe long game, I will say. But
it's hard to do that when I'm inthe weeds. And the problem is I
also like being in the weedssometimes. And I very, very much
love the clouds and very muchlove the dirt, but I am not
great at coordination and themanagement piece. And I
(10:53):
definitely have sped up theprocess by hiring contractors,
but I'm still blocking it.
So
Susan Boles (11:52):
if I were to posit a solution, which is what
happens if you treat theservices side of this more like
an investment and less like yourbaby. So meaning maybe you hire
(12:12):
somebody to replace you in thatcoordination. Maybe that's a
client coordinator. Maybe thatis a high level CMOE kind of
person. Maybe it is just anoperations person.
What comes up for you if that'sthe direction?
Tanya Moushi (12:32):
Yeah. Terror comes up for me. I think asking for
help is so difficult. Even thefact that, like, I'm on here
Susan Boles (12:39):
It's so hard.
Tanya Moushi (12:39):
On this podcast with you. It is so hard. I'm so
used to showing up and just likepouring out and like giving. To
ask for help is so difficult.There's certainly an aspect of
trust with the client that'shuge that I that I think that's
probably the thing that scaresme the most.
It's like the idea of beinglike, hey, I know we've worked
for each other for the past tenyears. However, this person is
(13:02):
gonna come like, I still wantthose close relationships and
maybe it's something where like,if I do focus on content and we
do have, you know, more warmleads come in, maybe it's
something where, like, they justtake the new people.
Susan Boles (13:15):
There's lots of ways that could look. Right? So
it could look like thinkingabout it in a longer term
transition plan. Right? Soinstead of, hey, one day you're
out and one day this next personis in and handling everything,
More about, like, maybe it's aneighteen month transition plan
(13:39):
where this person comes in andis alongside you.
And the plan is for the firstyear or however long, they're
actually just shadowing youright they're under starting to
understand how you think aboutthings and how you strategize
and how you build thatrelationship with the client and
(14:01):
what that looks like and maybethey do take on the new clients
and ease in the old clients byhaving this person shadow you
and building up that samerelationship with your clients.
So that's one potential paththat you know could be a long
term you playing while you areproducing content, while you're
(14:28):
experimenting with the newdirection, the new ideas.
Tanya Moushi (14:31):
That's helpful actually just to even think I
think I always think of likethink so fast that it's alright.
Things are so quick. Yeah.That's a that's a good that's a
good point that it would begradual.
Susan Boles (14:42):
Moving slowly here makes sense. You you do have
very established relationshipswith long term clients. And,
yeah, nobody wants to be like,hey. Peace out. Yeah.
This is Jim Bob. Enjoy doingright? Like
Tanya Moushi (14:57):
He's a nice guy.
Susan Boles (14:58):
Thinking about how do we actually slow things down
here because it doesn't have tobe tomorrow. This is still how
you're making what 100% of yourrevenue right now longer term as
like a two to three year shiftof what could this look like.
(15:18):
Let me gradually transitionrevenue from services to media
company. Or maybe it's theservices doesn't need to get
smaller. It just needs to getmore consistent.
You know there are other optionshere. You could bring in a
(15:39):
partner. You could productizethe crap out of what is in your
head. And then have somebody oreven technology do a little bit
more of the hand off thelifting, right? So by that I
mean maybe communicating withthe client becomes something
that's more automatic.
(15:59):
They have access maybe to yourproject management thing to be
able to see where the project isor what stage it's at. Maybe it
is you turning how you thinkabout building a website into a
decision tree. Maybe there aredecision trees that allow you to
potentially train your designerto handle more of the direct
(16:21):
client communication or to buildthose relationships.
Tanya Moushi (16:25):
Yeah. I always thought that if you productize
something that it would just bydefault lower the price point.
And I don't think that's thecase anymore if you have a solid
streamlined service.
Susan Boles (16:34):
Yeah. So to me, productization of a service is
there, a, to make it just easierexecute. So really lowering
decision fatigue, reallylowering like the lift to
deliver the service. And it'sthere so that like it's easier
(16:55):
to train people to take overpieces of this service. It's
easier to consistently deliverthe same quality service with a
little bit less effort on yourpart, which I think can lead to
the service being moreprofitable because you and your
(17:15):
team are spending just lesstime, energy, effort.
But the point is to make it alower lift, not necessarily to
make it lower cost. Because formost services you're actually
delivering the same value right?They still have the same
(17:36):
website. Product. You're justmaking it a little bit like
lower lift for you so you havemore margin built into your
business to do other things, tobe able to do more things, to
take more rest.
But you're not actually changingthe end result. Most of the time
(17:58):
you're making the end resultbetter. Right? Because you are
making sure that all the pieceshappen in the same order with
process. And both you and yourclients then benefit from having
done this same process a wholebunch of times and figuring out
(18:18):
all the different places that itcan completely go off the rails
and then putting in moreguidelines to make sure it
doesn't go off the rail in thatspecific way.
Again, it'll go off the rails innew and Yeah. Different Yeah.
But it won't Definitely.Whatever happened that one time,
you've tried to prevent ithappening just that way again.
(18:42):
So the actual end result productends up being significantly
better and more valuable withthe productization.
Not it's not less valuable. It'sjust easier to put out a really
good product.
Tanya Moushi (18:58):
I think you just you just broke my brain a little
bit, Susan, because I have Irealized I realized how how much
I have tied like bespoke andcustom things to, you know, to
the value. It's like, you'restill getting the deliverable is
the same, but to make it lowerlift, it's like, there's almost
this permission that needs tohappen of, like, it could be
(19:19):
easier, and it doesn't make itless valuable.
Susan Boles (19:22):
It doesn't make it less valuable. It makes it more
valuable. Like one of the thingswhen we are, I mean, this
collective we, when we asservice providers design
services, we tend to think thatthe more stuff we put in that,
the more valuable it is. Whenalmost always, if you think
(19:45):
about how you feel when you arethe client, the less you have to
do or think or commit to thisproject, the the more you like
that surface. Right?
Like, you can develop a reallysolid intake process where I
only have to give you thirtyminutes of my time and you can
(20:08):
execute that site where it feelscustom, that's more valuable.
Like, really being able tounderstand what pieces do you
need to get this transformationor produce your service or
produce your deliverable. Howfocused can you get that?
Because it's better foreverybody.
Tanya Moushi (20:30):
Yeah. And I think we have like the we have to be
getting part down in the senseof like the consult's always
really good. It's a twentyminute consult. It's really
clear what somebody needs by theend of it. I definitely pride
myself on, asking good questionsaround this.
So it's, we have the informationthat we need, and then I have a
pretty solid process of, like,content gathering or creation,
(20:52):
you know, and then we're doing,like, the design side of things,
and then we're actually doingthe build. Like, it's a pretty
streamlined part, like, processthere. I I feel like I made it
very easy for the client in thebeginning, but not at the end.
Like, the beginning isstreamlined, beautiful. Someone
else can execute that.
But it is the it is from themiddle to the end that I'm like
(21:12):
it's either perfectionisttendency that's coming in that
I'm like, I think that could beeasier internally where it's
like we're either working off ofour best, you know, templates.
There's always a handful in the300 some websites we've created.
There's always a handful thatpeople just love. Or, you know,
figuring out which parts need tobe actually customized and how.
And I gotta, I think, just thinkabout that, like, on the
(21:34):
fulfillment side.
Susan Boles (21:35):
So the place I would focus if we're you know
the on the front part is reallysolid. Other people can execute
that. And it's getting you allthe information you need in the
onboarding process to then doyour work. Yep. Let's talk about
where and how logisticallythings get stuck.
(21:57):
So when it gets to the pointwhere you now have to step in,
are you stepping in and makingdecisions? Are you stepping in
and reviewing? Are you steppingin like, what happens when you
step in?
Tanya Moushi (22:18):
We'll basically get all the information. I'll
come in. And usually the veryfirst thing I'm doing for the
designer's sake is looking atthe copy. And I am editing the
copy on behalf of the clientalmost always. And then I'm
giving that copy document to thedesigner.
They're doing their thing. Andthen the first iteration, I am
(22:40):
coordinating that review that,literally, that that design with
the client. And so I'll send alink, and they can make comments
on different areas. And then I'mliterally gathering that
feedback and then giving it tothe designer. And then she's
doing her thing.
Like, I feels like I don't needto be here. That's what it feels
like.
Susan Boles (22:59):
So some of those are really good instances for
technology. Think about howcould you collect that feedback
more systematically. So thatcould be something like
developing a feedback form withsome of the questions that you
would ask or something thatwould allow them to give you
(23:23):
more effective feedback. So likeas somebody who I've worked with
a lot of designers, sometimesthey'll say, hey, here's the
thing. Give me some feedback.
And then I'm always like, Idon't I don't quite know what
kind of feedback or how how togive you that feedback in a way
(23:44):
that's really effective. Like,do I record a video just talking
through my impressions? And thenyou can take information from
that. So, like, being moresystematic and saying, here's
your initial design, and here isa worksheet to help you give us
the most effective feedback.
Tanya Moushi (24:04):
Oh, I love that, Susan. That's awesome.
Susan Boles (24:06):
And then you could do, you know, the email that
goes out depending on, like,what project management system
you are you're using. You couldeven do something like, hey,
when this task moves into clientfeedback, it sends a templated
email with a link to the form.And all you have to do is, you
(24:28):
know, write out the template onetime of, hey, here's the yeah.
Here's the blah blah blah.Here's your design.
Here's the link to the design.We'd love to get some feedback
from you here's the link to thefeedback form to help you give
us the most effective feedbackand if you use tools like zapier
all you have to do is inwhatever project management
(24:51):
tool. So if you're using Notionor ClickUp or whatever, you can
use something like a a datafield to say, here's the link to
the demo site. Interesting. Allyou have to do is drop the link
in.
Honestly, all your designer hasdo is drop in the link to the
site and move it to the nextstatus. You can trigger it so
that then the client gets thestandardized delivery email that
(25:14):
you can write in a really humanway that feels like it's custom
to them.
Tanya Moushi (25:18):
But it's utilizing the data field.
Susan Boles (25:20):
Yeah. So you utilize a data field to have
basically create a variable thatthe link goes into the variable.
The link to the feedback form isprobably the same every time.
And all your designer has to dois drop the link, move it to the
next thing. The client gets theemail, and you aren't in that
process
Tanya Moushi (25:41):
at all. So so nice. And then even, like, the
email, would it be too much tohave that email go directly to
the designer?
Susan Boles (25:50):
Yeah. Once they get the feedback form, if all you're
doing is taking that and givingit to your designer, absolutely.
Either have it go one thing youcould do is have it go back into
the project management systemso, like, everybody can see the
feedback. And then like tag yourdesigner to say, hey, they've
submitted feedback, move it tothe next step and do your thing.
(26:12):
The other thing you might thinkabout in this process is
bringing on a copywriter so thatthey can do, you know, a review
and edit of the copy.
If that's something that youthink is really important to the
process, bring in a copywriterwho can review and edit and make
it good, and then send it to thedesigner. And then you have been
(26:36):
lifted out Yeah. Of all of
Tanya Moushi (26:39):
those steps
Susan Boles (26:40):
outside of, like, train the copywriter maybe with
what you are specificallylooking for. But if you hire
somebody with a decent you knowcopywriting expertise they know
what they're doing especially atthe beginning maybe you don't
need a client contact maybe youneed to sit and think about like
what are you actuallycommunicating and when does that
happen and is there anopportunity here to make that a
(27:02):
template that either can be sentautomatically using custom data
fields, or is it something thatyou can template the email for
your designer to be able to editand send? And then maybe at the
very end, you come in to revieweverything and have one last
look to look for any problems.
Tanya Moushi (27:22):
Yep.
Susan Boles (27:23):
And send it on. And I don't think it hurts your
relationship with the client.Normally, I see when people
start, like, automating clientcommunication is actually like
our the way we think about itis, oh, I'm not touching it. So
it's not going to be the sameexperience for the client. But
(27:47):
what actually happens is youthen more consistently are able
to stick to your timelines.
You're more able to actuallycommunicate when you intend to
communicate. Right? Like, allintend to send an email or send
a check-in or keep the thing ontrack. But a lot of the times
(28:08):
when that's manual, we delaydoing it. We forget to do it.
Tanya Moushi (28:13):
It just goes. Exactly.
Susan Boles (28:15):
Yeah. So the automating of that communication
process actually results in amore timely delivery, which
clients always like, and moreconsistent communication about
what's actually happening duringthe process. Because when you're
thinking about taking yourselfout of it, you put all of that
(28:38):
in the template email. You mighteven link to an FAQ page about
here's how the process works,here's how the timeline works,
here's all of the questions thatwe get so that when you get a
question from a client insteadof answering it everywhere or
answering it a 100 times youjust put it in the FAQs.
Tanya Moushi (28:57):
Really the only the only other last step is
literally just like invoice.
Susan Boles (29:00):
Yeah, you can either change status or if you
think about productizing more onthe front end, the onboarding
piece, you could use a like aproposal tool that has automatic
payments in it. So you are doingmilestone invoicing. Either
(29:21):
you're doing regular paymentsthat you can set to
automatically pull at the righttime where it, like,
automatically sends you aninvoice and automatically pulls
the payment on the due date,which I love because it
drastically improves cash flow.And you don't have to worry
about when is that person goingto pay my invoice. You have
already captured thatinformation at the beginning of
(29:42):
the process when they are mostexcited to work with you.
Yeah. They don't have toremember to do it. So you're
saving them time, energy,effort, because everybody knows
that, like, it's a pain in theass to go pay an invoice when I
could have just given you theinformation at the beginning and
you just charge my stuff. Youtell me when.
Tanya Moushi (30:01):
Yeah. And under a certain threshold we do that
where it's like you're justpaying upfront and if it's over
a certain amount that they'll dothe 50% deposit then 50% on
delivery.
Susan Boles (30:11):
A lot of the automation tools where it's like
automatic proposal and paymentsyou can still do milestone
billing. Then you could do, hey,when this project moves to this
status, trigger the milestone.Nobody's manually having to
remember to do that. Stuff likeaccounting is one of the best
use cases for automation becauseit's always the same thing.
Tanya Moushi (30:33):
Yeah so one of the things that I think makes us
really different is we reallyempower the client to manage the
site on their own and it'sbasically like you can always
hire us for support, but it'snever out of necessity. It's
always out of convenience. Soit's not because you can't or
don't have access to your site,it's because you just want
support, makes sense for you tospend time doing other things.
And so with every projectbasically comes a training on
(30:56):
the site. This is how you dothis.
This how you add a blog post,how you swap an image. Normally,
we do that on every single site.It's a big value add. I mean,
doing a blog post in one site isthe same as doing it in other
sites. It's just on the trainingvideo, the difference is that
you see your site versus anothersite.
Do you think that makes a bigdifference?
Susan Boles (31:13):
I think there are two ways you could go about
doing it, and I think it dependson how you feel about this. Do I
think that customized videoswith their specific site has a
psychological benefit to theclient feeling like it's custom?
Tanya Moushi (31:31):
Yeah.
Susan Boles (31:31):
I do. But I also think I think there are two ways
where you could make this asefficient as possible. The first
is just create a training thatis generic, that says here's how
you would do this, and you sendit as part of your, like,
offboarding email. Here's thelink to the training. Everybody
(31:52):
actually gets the same training.
That's probably the mostefficient. It's the lowest cost.
And you're probably not going tolose much. Like, you can still
get the same vibe. Alternativenumber two is if you think the
psychological value is reallyimportant to you and the client
(32:12):
experience because you know thatpeople just love this with their
own thing.
Tanya Moushi (32:18):
Sight. Yeah.
Susan Boles (32:19):
What I actually would do is if that's really
important to you, write ascript. Right? Like, write a
here's the script for thewalkthrough video. We are gonna
show them how to do a blog postand how to add a page to the
site. And so the content isstill the same.
(32:41):
Everybody is getting a verysystematized like, it's super
systematized, but also stillcustom because all you're doing
is recording that video withtheir specific site. But the
actual, like, here's what yousay, and here's the order, and
here's the section. And thatscript basically is at the point
(33:03):
where anybody can record thatscript with the walkthrough
including your designer right sopart of them delivering is read
the script and do a walkthroughor honestly at that point you
could hire a VA. Read thescript, do this walkthrough.
Here's the site that you'regoing to do this walkthrough and
(33:25):
the script has click on thispage, read this script, click on
this page, read this script.
And you could even do somethinglike a combination of both.
Right? So there's a standardFAQs that everybody has access
to the same FAQs, but the pieceswhere you think it's the most
valuable to have somebody seewhat's happening, put that in
(33:48):
the script.
Tanya Moushi (33:49):
Yeah. That's what I was thinking about. Like, a
general sort of training, butsee your site for the more
specific things.
Susan Boles (33:55):
But all you need to do is write the script and the
walkthrough of, like, here'swhat we cover in this piece, and
here's what we cover in thatpiece. And then you can hand off
that recording of the scriptwith the walkthrough to anybody.
And the, you know, FAQs, thegeneralized piece, you just
update as you add stuff to itand then all of your clients get
(34:17):
to benefit from that FAQ.
Tanya Moushi (34:21):
That's very helpful. Can I ask you, Susan,
what is the biggest barriermentally for doing for
systematizing?
Susan Boles (34:29):
I actually think there's probably two pieces.
There's the one which is most ofus come to this from some sort
of creative perspective. Right?So we are all out there being
special snowflakes and spendinga lot of time on the creative
piece, right? And we have thisidea that creativity only
(34:56):
happens if we have completefreedom.
Right? It's the same as like allof our services need to be
custom because the value's inthe custom. For the most part,
the value is not in the custom.The value is in you do this
thing all day every day, not inthe customization. So I think
(35:16):
like the we want to be creativepeople, and we feel like
constraints will hamper ourcreativity when almost always
everybody says constraintsenhances creativity.
Like all evidence is there thatlike the more constraints you
put on something, the morecreative work, the more good
(35:37):
work comes out of that thing.
Tanya Moushi (35:38):
Totally.
Susan Boles (35:39):
And I think the other piece is just kind of
generally around operations andprocesses, which is, I don't
like it. It's boring. It's morework for me to do. I'm not
really big enough for that tomatter. When almost always just
taking a few minutes to put thisprocess in place, right, means
(36:02):
that you're creating so muchmore margin in your business for
a very small payoff.
Right? Like, I can almostguarantee that you could
probably book off ninety minutesand go create that feedback
form. Right? Like just thinkingabout like, what feedback, how
do I help people do it? Blockoff ninety minutes, make a
feedback form, write the email.
(36:24):
And in two hours, you havesolved a huge bottleneck and you
saved yourself probably two orthree hours per project. And
when you count up those two orthree hours per project, just on
that one that one piece
Tanya Moushi (36:41):
That's a great point. Yeah. Because I when I
think about it, I'm like, oh,man. So I need to block off a
week.
Susan Boles (36:45):
Not to mention, like, the decision fatigue.
Like, it probably would take youtwo hours and would probably
save you over the course of ayear, three to four works weeks
of work on the low end of theestimate. So when people ask me
about like, oh, how do youcreate so much margin? Like, how
(37:05):
do you work three days a week?It's stuff like that.
Tanya Moushi (37:09):
Yeah. I think, you know, that really helps me
because there is this mental,like sometimes the motivation
doesn't really happen until Ican see the other side of, like,
what can I do with this? Yep.You know? And then and then when
I see that, I'm like, okay.
I'll it justifies, like, fine.I'll spend two hours doing this,
you know? But without thatpiece, I'm just like, oh, it's
(37:31):
just more work. It's just extrawork. I don't see what the
benefit is.
Susan Boles (37:34):
The payoff is you can go find one another business
to invest in. You can go writeother content. You can explore a
different idea. You can Play.You can go play.
Like, that's it's it's adifferent fill in the blank for
everybody. But the payoff ofjust optimizing, like, one or
(37:59):
two processes, especially ifit's something that you're doing
all the time, or in this case,something that is genuinely
bottlenecking your clientprocess, which means it's
impacting your ability to takeon more clients. And so that's
directly impacting your revenueas well. That's a real ROI.
Tanya Moushi (38:22):
Yeah, you're like, that's measurable. Like someone
else would measure that.
Susan Boles (38:25):
Yeah. I do measure it when I do it. But doing
little tiny optimizations likethat is something that one makes
your your services more reliableso you don't have to be afraid.
Tanya Moushi (38:38):
Yeah yeah I love this the aim of that the aim of
like making your service morereliable is such a it like helps
with the fear of because there'sa trust thing. Right? You're
like, will this be reliable? Theonly reason I'm in it is so that
I can have yeah. Is so that Ican make sure all of this.
And so it's kind of likeremoving that uncertainty, but I
think that's a great aim of justjust how do I make this more
(39:00):
reliable?
Susan Boles (39:01):
When I think a lot of the like move this thing
along the tracks is such a greatuse case for automation tools
because you then have confidencein the fact that they're not
going to do it incorrectly. It'sgoing to happen exactly the way
that you have designed it everysingle time. You don't have to
(39:22):
try and outsource it to a personthat you then have to trust is
going to do it your way, yourtime, at a specific point in
time. All of the people in yourbusiness are doing things that
people can do and are reallyvaluable. Like they bring
valuable skills or thoughts toprocess, the moving the project
(39:44):
along the track, it is one ofthe most powerful things I think
you can do to make your businesscalmer.
Tanya Moushi (39:54):
I love that. That's really helpful. You have
settled my soul a little more.
Susan Boles (40:03):
What we focused on today wasn't just about fixing a
project management bottleneck.It was about designing systems
that let you step out of theweeds without losing quality or
compromising clientrelationships. We focused on two
key levers from the Calmerframework. First, business
design, specifically moving fromdefault ad hoc coordination to
(40:27):
intentional systems that can runwithout constant input. And
second, margins.
Not the version where you crammore in, but the kind that
creates margin by removingdecision fatigue and repetitive
tasks. The real insight here isthat productizing your services,
it's not about making themcheaper or less valuable. It's
(40:48):
actually about making them morereliable. When you systematize
the coordination, communication,and handoffs, your clients get a
more consistent experience. Yourteam knows exactly what to do
when, and you stop being asingle point of failure.
If you're listening andthinking, yep, that's me. I'm
the bottleneck. Here is a tinyaction to try this week. Pick
(41:10):
one recurring task that you'remanually doing and spend a few
minutes, no more than ninety,creating a template, a form, or
some sort of automated processfor it. Whether that means
client feedback collection,project status updates, handoff
communications, that ninetyminutes will likely save you
three to four hours every month.
(41:32):
The goal here isn't to removethe human touch, It's to make
sure the human touch happenswhere it actually adds value,
not in moving information frompoint a to point b. Thanks to
Tanya for being willing totroubleshoot her business in
real time. That takes guts and Iknow that other business owners
will see themselves in thisconversation. Until next time,
(41:53):
remember your expertise is theasset. Don't let coordination be
the thing that keeps you fromsharing it.
You've spent a decade building expertise,
systems, a team. Clients come toyou organically. Your
contractors handle most of thework. Everything should be
running smoothly. So why doesevery project still need you in
the middle, translating betweenone team member and the client,
coordinating feedback, makingsure nothing falls through their
(00:27):
cracks?
And why does the thought ofcreating content about your
expertise, content that couldbring in more leads, actually
fill you with dread? Today we'resolving for calm one KPI, one
bottleneck, one business at atime. I'm Susan Bowles, and this
is Calm as the New KPI. Today,I'm chatting with Tanya Mushi.
(00:49):
She runs Moushi and Co.
And after eleven years inbusiness, she's become the thing
standing between her currentsuccess and her next chapter.
She's got the knowledge to shareand the systems to grow, but
she's trapped by her owncompetence. Every project gets
bottlenecked at the same place.Her. And that bottleneck isn't
(01:11):
just slowing down delivery.
It's keeping her from taking therisks that could transform her
business. It's keeping her fromselling more projects to more
clients. Now today we're goingto pull the business design
lever here a little bit. Lookingat how to move coordination out
of your head and into systemsthat actually work. Because when
you are the critical path foreverything, you can't scale, you
(01:34):
can't rest, and you definitelycan't experiment with new
directions.
All right. So we are here todayto talk about your business and
a bottleneck that you arefacing. So give me kind of the
high level who you are, what youdo, and then what are we gonna
talk about today?
Tanya Moushi (01:55):
Yes. So thank you so much for taking this on, by
the way. I super appreciate yourtime. But, yeah, I'm stuck,
Susan. So this is a good time tocome to you.
So I've had my business, Moushiand Co, for eleven years, which
I'm super grateful for. We'vecrossed that milestone. It's
been amazing. So for ten years,we've been a featured
Squarespace expert. And soSquarespace literally has just
(02:17):
featured us as an authorizedtrainer and an expert.
So I've done workshops reallyaround that platform, and it's
basically just helpingnontechnical people get online
and build a presence online.That's been the business for
years. And then around the sixyear mark, it sort of
transitioned, and I started toplay this, like, ratio game of,
like, some website builds andsystems builds and then some
(02:40):
advisement. And it's been great.I really enjoyed that.
Now I'm in a place, like, youknow, year 11 where I'm like, I
need to do something with allthis experience. I am very
clearly the bottleneck in thefulfillment process. Getting
sales has, thank god, knock onwood, been great and fairly
(03:00):
easy. You've got, like, ways toget warmer froes coming in, but
I projects that should be takingtwo weeks I'm dragging them to
two months and I have hiredcontractors which is great and
they have really helped thisprocess but now I'm in this
place where it's like okay I'vedone this service world thing
I've really enjoyed it I have alot to share around it, and I
(03:20):
want to. I want to put contentout there around service design
and building a business thatactually feels really good and
helping people that you want tohelp.
This is like a core tenet of myphilosophy. And then I want to
do some more writing andmanifestos, things like that.
It's basically all contentoriented but my fear, the real
fear that I have, is that I'mgonna put content out there and
(03:41):
people are gonna come to me forhelp. And I have no streamlined
process for that anymore withoutme being like, yes, let me help
you and then me diving intothat. And so in the past what
I've done for clients, which islike, you know, some kind of
application process or likesomething that sort of funnels
people through things.
(04:02):
But for some reason, I'm stuck.So if you can help me with this
fear and maybe help me see whatthe actual funnel might look
like, if there's a funnel or ifthere's a process or some
channel, I feel like you are theperson to see this.
Susan Boles (04:18):
So I guess how you are thinking about this new
direction, are you thinkingabout it as you've got the
agency still doing everythingthat you have been doing for the
last decade? And then this issomething is this a side
project? Is this a secondbusiness? Is this your personal
(04:40):
brand? Or are you thinking thisreplaces?
Like, how are you thinkingabout, I guess, old business,
new business, both things?
Tanya Moushi (04:51):
It's a great question. We're in such a funny
time in the industry where italmost feels like with websites
right now, it feels like insteadof, like, trying to build a
faster car, people are, like,going to need airplanes. This is
what I don't know how else todescribe this, but it's, it the
industry is changing so fast. SoI'm in this really interesting
(05:11):
place of, like, maximizingopportunity while I have it,
which is what the agency piecedoes. I do want to replace it.
But to be totally real, that isthe service side of things is
what makes everything possible.You know, that is the bread and
butter of the business. And soin replacing it, I would like to
(05:32):
do it in a strategic way whereeventually long term, it is more
content media that's makingmoney, but not without a line of
service. I think that's what itis. I do want a line of service.
Think I it just makes sense. AndI've always been, like, helping
a few people at at once. I wantto have that line of service,
(05:53):
but have the content stuffreplace a lot of it.
Susan Boles (05:56):
And when you are thinking about the future
version of whatever this ends upbeing in terms of ideal revenue
mix between content side revenuegeneration, so like
sponsorships, affiliates, ads,whatever on the content media
(06:21):
side of the house, and thenservices, maybe like digital
products or however you'rethinking about revenue, what
would the ideal mix be for you?
Tanya Moushi (06:34):
I love this question. That's so good.
Naturally, I think affiliatesand sponsorships are actually
gonna be like the big game inthe future. We have really close
partnerships with the differentsoftware companies that we work
with. So it, like, makes sense.
I would say, like, the idealsplit for me realistically is
80% sponsor affiliates and 20%services.
Susan Boles (06:57):
And of those services, what do you see those
services potentially being? Whatare you playing around with?
Tanya Moushi (07:05):
You would be proud, Susan. We do have this
down. Actually, I spent the lastfew months productizing this
and, like, sort of playing withit, but it I have productized it
a little better now at least. Sothere's something called a
digital foundation. It'sbasically just the you're having
your site up and running, havinga custom email address, having a
presence online.
So it's a digital foundation forpeople that don't have one and
(07:28):
it's really well targeted. Soit's usually experts that are in
their field that arenontechnical. They have some
good ideas and they just have noway of sharing it. There's a
sort of natural organic funnelthat happens. But, yeah, it's a
digital foundation.
That is basically the product. Ihave that process down. The
sales process is down. Thefulfillment process, it goes to,
(07:48):
like, 60%, and then I'm thebottleneck. And I'm, like,
coordinating things.
Susan Boles (07:52):
So you had mentioned at the beginning
feeling a lot of things. Fear insome of these areas. Talk to me
a little bit about that.
Tanya Moushi (08:08):
So the fear is essentially that we get the
project, and then 60% of the waythrough, I have stalled. Either
I have not coordinatedsomething, I've not communicated
something, there is somethinghappening at that, like, 70%
mark that doesn't close out theproject. And I don't know if
this is a weird emotionalproblem as Barrett Brooks will
(08:29):
say this is a emotional problemthat I'm having where there's
like just the issue of closingthe loop. But I like I can see
from a strategy standpoint howit makes sense to close the loop
and sort of funnel peoplethrough content that makes sense
for them because these clientsare fairly similar as far as the
challenges they have. But thefear is really forgetting the
(08:52):
clients is that I'm stepping inat that 60% mark.
And if I don't step in, theproject does not close.
Susan Boles (08:57):
So when you are stepping in, what are you
stepping in to do? Or where dothings get bottlenecked?
Tanya Moushi (09:09):
I think it's because I am the connector
between my designer and theclient. I used to design
everything myself, but 300websites later, I have a
designer, which is amazing, andshe's amazing, and she's better
than me in so many ways. And Icome in really strong as an
editor and a strategist. And soI'm really translating why
(09:29):
design choices were made to theclient and then communicating
what the client wants back tothe designers, which is
management, which is justsomething that is not strong for
me. And I just haven't had maybethe level of trust to delegate
that because I'm I work veryclosely with my clients.
Like, they feel like they don'thave to explain a lot. I can
(09:50):
intuit a lot, which is nice. Butof course, that creates a bit of
a bottleneck there.
Susan Boles (09:56):
So for you personally, ideally, picture
work look like? What would youideally want to be spending your
time doing?
Tanya Moushi (10:08):
The last few years, I've made a couple small
investments in companies that Ilove. I think long term, what I
would love to do is build thisportfolio of business where I
have a couple small investmentsand I have some say as an
adviser as to how they go, and Iwould love to do that long term.
I think it's so cool. It's verylike the brown female version of
(10:32):
Andrew Wilkinson long term. It'show I picture that.
That is like the long that isthe long game, I will say. But
it's hard to do that when I'm inthe weeds. And the problem is I
also like being in the weedssometimes. And I very, very much
love the clouds and very muchlove the dirt, but I am not
great at coordination and themanagement piece. And I
(10:53):
definitely have sped up theprocess by hiring contractors,
but I'm still blocking it.
So
Susan Boles (11:52):
if I were to posit a solution, which is what
happens if you treat theservices side of this more like
an investment and less like yourbaby. So meaning maybe you hire
(12:12):
somebody to replace you in thatcoordination. Maybe that's a
client coordinator. Maybe thatis a high level CMOE kind of
person. Maybe it is just anoperations person.
What comes up for you if that'sthe direction?
Tanya Moushi (12:32):
Yeah. Terror comes up for me. I think asking for
help is so difficult. Even thefact that, like, I'm on here
Susan Boles (12:39):
It's so hard.
Tanya Moushi (12:39):
On this podcast with you. It is so hard. I'm so
used to showing up and just likepouring out and like giving. To
ask for help is so difficult.There's certainly an aspect of
trust with the client that'shuge that I that I think that's
probably the thing that scaresme the most.
It's like the idea of beinglike, hey, I know we've worked
for each other for the past tenyears. However, this person is
(13:02):
gonna come like, I still wantthose close relationships and
maybe it's something where like,if I do focus on content and we
do have, you know, more warmleads come in, maybe it's
something where, like, they justtake the new people.
Susan Boles (13:15):
There's lots of ways that could look. Right? So
it could look like thinkingabout it in a longer term
transition plan. Right? Soinstead of, hey, one day you're
out and one day this next personis in and handling everything,
More about, like, maybe it's aneighteen month transition plan
(13:39):
where this person comes in andis alongside you.
And the plan is for the firstyear or however long, they're
actually just shadowing youright they're under starting to
understand how you think aboutthings and how you strategize
and how you build thatrelationship with the client and
(14:01):
what that looks like and maybethey do take on the new clients
and ease in the old clients byhaving this person shadow you
and building up that samerelationship with your clients.
So that's one potential paththat you know could be a long
term you playing while you areproducing content, while you're
(14:28):
experimenting with the newdirection, the new ideas.
Tanya Moushi (14:31):
That's helpful actually just to even think I
think I always think of likethink so fast that it's alright.
Things are so quick. Yeah.That's a that's a good that's a
good point that it would begradual.
Susan Boles (14:42):
Moving slowly here makes sense. You you do have
very established relationshipswith long term clients. And,
yeah, nobody wants to be like,hey. Peace out. Yeah.
This is Jim Bob. Enjoy doingright? Like
Tanya Moushi (14:57):
He's a nice guy.
Susan Boles (14:58):
Thinking about how do we actually slow things down
here because it doesn't have tobe tomorrow. This is still how
you're making what 100% of yourrevenue right now longer term as
like a two to three year shiftof what could this look like.
(15:18):
Let me gradually transitionrevenue from services to media
company. Or maybe it's theservices doesn't need to get
smaller. It just needs to getmore consistent.
You know there are other optionshere. You could bring in a
(15:39):
partner. You could productizethe crap out of what is in your
head. And then have somebody oreven technology do a little bit
more of the hand off thelifting, right? So by that I
mean maybe communicating withthe client becomes something
that's more automatic.
(15:59):
They have access maybe to yourproject management thing to be
able to see where the project isor what stage it's at. Maybe it
is you turning how you thinkabout building a website into a
decision tree. Maybe there aredecision trees that allow you to
potentially train your designerto handle more of the direct
(16:21):
client communication or to buildthose relationships.
Tanya Moushi (16:25):
Yeah. I always thought that if you productize
something that it would just bydefault lower the price point.
And I don't think that's thecase anymore if you have a solid
streamlined service.
Susan Boles (16:34):
Yeah. So to me, productization of a service is
there, a, to make it just easierexecute. So really lowering
decision fatigue, reallylowering like the lift to
deliver the service. And it'sthere so that like it's easier
(16:55):
to train people to take overpieces of this service. It's
easier to consistently deliverthe same quality service with a
little bit less effort on yourpart, which I think can lead to
the service being moreprofitable because you and your
(17:15):
team are spending just lesstime, energy, effort.
But the point is to make it alower lift, not necessarily to
make it lower cost. Because formost services you're actually
delivering the same value right?They still have the same
(17:36):
website. Product. You're justmaking it a little bit like
lower lift for you so you havemore margin built into your
business to do other things, tobe able to do more things, to
take more rest.
But you're not actually changingthe end result. Most of the time
(17:58):
you're making the end resultbetter. Right? Because you are
making sure that all the pieceshappen in the same order with
process. And both you and yourclients then benefit from having
done this same process a wholebunch of times and figuring out
(18:18):
all the different places that itcan completely go off the rails
and then putting in moreguidelines to make sure it
doesn't go off the rail in thatspecific way.
Again, it'll go off the rails innew and Yeah. Different Yeah.
But it won't Definitely.Whatever happened that one time,
you've tried to prevent ithappening just that way again.
(18:42):
So the actual end result productends up being significantly
better and more valuable withthe productization.
Not it's not less valuable. It'sjust easier to put out a really
good product.
Tanya Moushi (18:58):
I think you just you just broke my brain a little
bit, Susan, because I have Irealized I realized how how much
I have tied like bespoke andcustom things to, you know, to
the value. It's like, you'restill getting the deliverable is
the same, but to make it lowerlift, it's like, there's almost
this permission that needs tohappen of, like, it could be
(19:19):
easier, and it doesn't make itless valuable.
Susan Boles (19:22):
It doesn't make it less valuable. It makes it more
valuable. Like one of the thingswhen we are, I mean, this
collective we, when we asservice providers design
services, we tend to think thatthe more stuff we put in that,
the more valuable it is. Whenalmost always, if you think
(19:45):
about how you feel when you arethe client, the less you have to
do or think or commit to thisproject, the the more you like
that surface. Right?
Like, you can develop a reallysolid intake process where I
only have to give you thirtyminutes of my time and you can
(20:08):
execute that site where it feelscustom, that's more valuable.
Like, really being able tounderstand what pieces do you
need to get this transformationor produce your service or
produce your deliverable. Howfocused can you get that?
Because it's better foreverybody.
Tanya Moushi (20:30):
Yeah. And I think we have like the we have to be
getting part down in the senseof like the consult's always
really good. It's a twentyminute consult. It's really
clear what somebody needs by theend of it. I definitely pride
myself on, asking good questionsaround this.
So it's, we have the informationthat we need, and then I have a
pretty solid process of, like,content gathering or creation,
(20:52):
you know, and then we're doing,like, the design side of things,
and then we're actually doingthe build. Like, it's a pretty
streamlined part, like, processthere. I I feel like I made it
very easy for the client in thebeginning, but not at the end.
Like, the beginning isstreamlined, beautiful. Someone
else can execute that.
But it is the it is from themiddle to the end that I'm like
(21:12):
it's either perfectionisttendency that's coming in that
I'm like, I think that could beeasier internally where it's
like we're either working off ofour best, you know, templates.
There's always a handful in the300 some websites we've created.
There's always a handful thatpeople just love. Or, you know,
figuring out which parts need tobe actually customized and how.
And I gotta, I think, just thinkabout that, like, on the
(21:34):
fulfillment side.
Susan Boles (21:35):
So the place I would focus if we're you know
the on the front part is reallysolid. Other people can execute
that. And it's getting you allthe information you need in the
onboarding process to then doyour work. Yep. Let's talk about
where and how logisticallythings get stuck.
(21:57):
So when it gets to the pointwhere you now have to step in,
are you stepping in and makingdecisions? Are you stepping in
and reviewing? Are you steppingin like, what happens when you
step in?
Tanya Moushi (22:18):
We'll basically get all the information. I'll
come in. And usually the veryfirst thing I'm doing for the
designer's sake is looking atthe copy. And I am editing the
copy on behalf of the clientalmost always. And then I'm
giving that copy document to thedesigner.
They're doing their thing. Andthen the first iteration, I am
(22:40):
coordinating that review that,literally, that that design with
the client. And so I'll send alink, and they can make comments
on different areas. And then I'mliterally gathering that
feedback and then giving it tothe designer. And then she's
doing her thing.
Like, I feels like I don't needto be here. That's what it feels
like.
Susan Boles (22:59):
So some of those are really good instances for
technology. Think about howcould you collect that feedback
more systematically. So thatcould be something like
developing a feedback form withsome of the questions that you
would ask or something thatwould allow them to give you
(23:23):
more effective feedback. So likeas somebody who I've worked with
a lot of designers, sometimesthey'll say, hey, here's the
thing. Give me some feedback.
And then I'm always like, Idon't I don't quite know what
kind of feedback or how how togive you that feedback in a way
(23:44):
that's really effective. Like,do I record a video just talking
through my impressions? And thenyou can take information from
that. So, like, being moresystematic and saying, here's
your initial design, and here isa worksheet to help you give us
the most effective feedback.
Tanya Moushi (24:04):
Oh, I love that, Susan. That's awesome.
Susan Boles (24:06):
And then you could do, you know, the email that
goes out depending on, like,what project management system
you are you're using. You couldeven do something like, hey,
when this task moves into clientfeedback, it sends a templated
email with a link to the form.And all you have to do is, you
(24:28):
know, write out the template onetime of, hey, here's the yeah.
Here's the blah blah blah.Here's your design.
Here's the link to the design.We'd love to get some feedback
from you here's the link to thefeedback form to help you give
us the most effective feedbackand if you use tools like zapier
all you have to do is inwhatever project management
(24:51):
tool. So if you're using Notionor ClickUp or whatever, you can
use something like a a datafield to say, here's the link to
the demo site. Interesting. Allyou have to do is drop the link
in.
Honestly, all your designer hasdo is drop in the link to the
site and move it to the nextstatus. You can trigger it so
that then the client gets thestandardized delivery email that
(25:14):
you can write in a really humanway that feels like it's custom
to them.
Tanya Moushi (25:18):
But it's utilizing the data field.
Susan Boles (25:20):
Yeah. So you utilize a data field to have
basically create a variable thatthe link goes into the variable.
The link to the feedback form isprobably the same every time.
And all your designer has to dois drop the link, move it to the
next thing. The client gets theemail, and you aren't in that
process
Tanya Moushi (25:41):
at all. So so nice. And then even, like, the
email, would it be too much tohave that email go directly to
the designer?
Susan Boles (25:50):
Yeah. Once they get the feedback form, if all you're
doing is taking that and givingit to your designer, absolutely.
Either have it go one thing youcould do is have it go back into
the project management systemso, like, everybody can see the
feedback. And then like tag yourdesigner to say, hey, they've
submitted feedback, move it tothe next step and do your thing.
(26:12):
The other thing you might thinkabout in this process is
bringing on a copywriter so thatthey can do, you know, a review
and edit of the copy.
If that's something that youthink is really important to the
process, bring in a copywriterwho can review and edit and make
it good, and then send it to thedesigner. And then you have been
(26:36):
lifted out Yeah. Of all of
Tanya Moushi (26:39):
those steps
Susan Boles (26:40):
outside of, like, train the copywriter maybe with
what you are specificallylooking for. But if you hire
somebody with a decent you knowcopywriting expertise they know
what they're doing especially atthe beginning maybe you don't
need a client contact maybe youneed to sit and think about like
what are you actuallycommunicating and when does that
happen and is there anopportunity here to make that a
(27:02):
template that either can be sentautomatically using custom data
fields, or is it something thatyou can template the email for
your designer to be able to editand send? And then maybe at the
very end, you come in to revieweverything and have one last
look to look for any problems.
Tanya Moushi (27:22):
Yep.
Susan Boles (27:23):
And send it on. And I don't think it hurts your
relationship with the client.Normally, I see when people
start, like, automating clientcommunication is actually like
our the way we think about itis, oh, I'm not touching it. So
it's not going to be the sameexperience for the client. But
(27:47):
what actually happens is youthen more consistently are able
to stick to your timelines.
You're more able to actuallycommunicate when you intend to
communicate. Right? Like, allintend to send an email or send
a check-in or keep the thing ontrack. But a lot of the times
(28:08):
when that's manual, we delaydoing it. We forget to do it.
Tanya Moushi (28:13):
It just goes. Exactly.
Susan Boles (28:15):
Yeah. So the automating of that communication
process actually results in amore timely delivery, which
clients always like, and moreconsistent communication about
what's actually happening duringthe process. Because when you're
thinking about taking yourselfout of it, you put all of that
(28:38):
in the template email. You mighteven link to an FAQ page about
here's how the process works,here's how the timeline works,
here's all of the questions thatwe get so that when you get a
question from a client insteadof answering it everywhere or
answering it a 100 times youjust put it in the FAQs.
Tanya Moushi (28:57):
Really the only the only other last step is
literally just like invoice.
Susan Boles (29:00):
Yeah, you can either change status or if you
think about productizing more onthe front end, the onboarding
piece, you could use a like aproposal tool that has automatic
payments in it. So you are doingmilestone invoicing. Either
(29:21):
you're doing regular paymentsthat you can set to
automatically pull at the righttime where it, like,
automatically sends you aninvoice and automatically pulls
the payment on the due date,which I love because it
drastically improves cash flow.And you don't have to worry
about when is that person goingto pay my invoice. You have
already captured thatinformation at the beginning of
(29:42):
the process when they are mostexcited to work with you.
Yeah. They don't have toremember to do it. So you're
saving them time, energy,effort, because everybody knows
that, like, it's a pain in theass to go pay an invoice when I
could have just given you theinformation at the beginning and
you just charge my stuff. Youtell me when.
Tanya Moushi (30:01):
Yeah. And under a certain threshold we do that
where it's like you're justpaying upfront and if it's over
a certain amount that they'll dothe 50% deposit then 50% on
delivery.
Susan Boles (30:11):
A lot of the automation tools where it's like
automatic proposal and paymentsyou can still do milestone
billing. Then you could do, hey,when this project moves to this
status, trigger the milestone.Nobody's manually having to
remember to do that. Stuff likeaccounting is one of the best
use cases for automation becauseit's always the same thing.
Tanya Moushi (30:33):
Yeah so one of the things that I think makes us
really different is we reallyempower the client to manage the
site on their own and it'sbasically like you can always
hire us for support, but it'snever out of necessity. It's
always out of convenience. Soit's not because you can't or
don't have access to your site,it's because you just want
support, makes sense for you tospend time doing other things.
And so with every projectbasically comes a training on
(30:56):
the site. This is how you dothis.
This how you add a blog post,how you swap an image. Normally,
we do that on every single site.It's a big value add. I mean,
doing a blog post in one site isthe same as doing it in other
sites. It's just on the trainingvideo, the difference is that
you see your site versus anothersite.
Do you think that makes a bigdifference?
Susan Boles (31:13):
I think there are two ways you could go about
doing it, and I think it dependson how you feel about this. Do I
think that customized videoswith their specific site has a
psychological benefit to theclient feeling like it's custom?
Tanya Moushi (31:31):
Yeah.
Susan Boles (31:31):
I do. But I also think I think there are two ways
where you could make this asefficient as possible. The first
is just create a training thatis generic, that says here's how
you would do this, and you sendit as part of your, like,
offboarding email. Here's thelink to the training. Everybody
(31:52):
actually gets the same training.
That's probably the mostefficient. It's the lowest cost.
And you're probably not going tolose much. Like, you can still
get the same vibe. Alternativenumber two is if you think the
psychological value is reallyimportant to you and the client
(32:12):
experience because you know thatpeople just love this with their
own thing.
Tanya Moushi (32:18):
Sight. Yeah.
Susan Boles (32:19):
What I actually would do is if that's really
important to you, write ascript. Right? Like, write a
here's the script for thewalkthrough video. We are gonna
show them how to do a blog postand how to add a page to the
site. And so the content isstill the same.
(32:41):
Everybody is getting a verysystematized like, it's super
systematized, but also stillcustom because all you're doing
is recording that video withtheir specific site. But the
actual, like, here's what yousay, and here's the order, and
here's the section. And thatscript basically is at the point
(33:03):
where anybody can record thatscript with the walkthrough
including your designer right sopart of them delivering is read
the script and do a walkthroughor honestly at that point you
could hire a VA. Read thescript, do this walkthrough.
Here's the site that you'regoing to do this walkthrough and
(33:25):
the script has click on thispage, read this script, click on
this page, read this script.
And you could even do somethinglike a combination of both.
Right? So there's a standardFAQs that everybody has access
to the same FAQs, but the pieceswhere you think it's the most
valuable to have somebody seewhat's happening, put that in
(33:48):
the script.
Tanya Moushi (33:49):
Yeah. That's what I was thinking about. Like, a
general sort of training, butsee your site for the more
specific things.
Susan Boles (33:55):
But all you need to do is write the script and the
walkthrough of, like, here'swhat we cover in this piece, and
here's what we cover in thatpiece. And then you can hand off
that recording of the scriptwith the walkthrough to anybody.
And the, you know, FAQs, thegeneralized piece, you just
update as you add stuff to itand then all of your clients get
(34:17):
to benefit from that FAQ.
Tanya Moushi (34:21):
That's very helpful. Can I ask you, Susan,
what is the biggest barriermentally for doing for
systematizing?
Susan Boles (34:29):
I actually think there's probably two pieces.
There's the one which is most ofus come to this from some sort
of creative perspective. Right?So we are all out there being
special snowflakes and spendinga lot of time on the creative
piece, right? And we have thisidea that creativity only
(34:56):
happens if we have completefreedom.
Right? It's the same as like allof our services need to be
custom because the value's inthe custom. For the most part,
the value is not in the custom.The value is in you do this
thing all day every day, not inthe customization. So I think
(35:16):
like the we want to be creativepeople, and we feel like
constraints will hamper ourcreativity when almost always
everybody says constraintsenhances creativity.
Like all evidence is there thatlike the more constraints you
put on something, the morecreative work, the more good
(35:37):
work comes out of that thing.
Tanya Moushi (35:38):
Totally.
Susan Boles (35:39):
And I think the other piece is just kind of
generally around operations andprocesses, which is, I don't
like it. It's boring. It's morework for me to do. I'm not
really big enough for that tomatter. When almost always just
taking a few minutes to put thisprocess in place, right, means
(36:02):
that you're creating so muchmore margin in your business for
a very small payoff.
Right? Like, I can almostguarantee that you could
probably book off ninety minutesand go create that feedback
form. Right? Like just thinkingabout like, what feedback, how
do I help people do it? Blockoff ninety minutes, make a
feedback form, write the email.
(36:24):
And in two hours, you havesolved a huge bottleneck and you
saved yourself probably two orthree hours per project. And
when you count up those two orthree hours per project, just on
that one that one piece
Tanya Moushi (36:41):
That's a great point. Yeah. Because I when I
think about it, I'm like, oh,man. So I need to block off a
week.
Susan Boles (36:45):
Not to mention, like, the decision fatigue.
Like, it probably would take youtwo hours and would probably
save you over the course of ayear, three to four works weeks
of work on the low end of theestimate. So when people ask me
about like, oh, how do youcreate so much margin? Like, how
(37:05):
do you work three days a week?It's stuff like that.
Tanya Moushi (37:09):
Yeah. I think, you know, that really helps me
because there is this mental,like sometimes the motivation
doesn't really happen until Ican see the other side of, like,
what can I do with this? Yep.You know? And then and then when
I see that, I'm like, okay.
I'll it justifies, like, fine.I'll spend two hours doing this,
you know? But without thatpiece, I'm just like, oh, it's
(37:31):
just more work. It's just extrawork. I don't see what the
benefit is.
Susan Boles (37:34):
The payoff is you can go find one another business
to invest in. You can go writeother content. You can explore a
different idea. You can Play.You can go play.
Like, that's it's it's adifferent fill in the blank for
everybody. But the payoff ofjust optimizing, like, one or
(37:59):
two processes, especially ifit's something that you're doing
all the time, or in this case,something that is genuinely
bottlenecking your clientprocess, which means it's
impacting your ability to takeon more clients. And so that's
directly impacting your revenueas well. That's a real ROI.
Tanya Moushi (38:22):
Yeah, you're like, that's measurable. Like someone
else would measure that.
Susan Boles (38:25):
Yeah. I do measure it when I do it. But doing
little tiny optimizations likethat is something that one makes
your your services more reliableso you don't have to be afraid.
Tanya Moushi (38:38):
Yeah yeah I love this the aim of that the aim of
like making your service morereliable is such a it like helps
with the fear of because there'sa trust thing. Right? You're
like, will this be reliable? Theonly reason I'm in it is so that
I can have yeah. Is so that Ican make sure all of this.
And so it's kind of likeremoving that uncertainty, but I
think that's a great aim of justjust how do I make this more
(39:00):
reliable?
Susan Boles (39:01):
When I think a lot of the like move this thing
along the tracks is such a greatuse case for automation tools
because you then have confidencein the fact that they're not
going to do it incorrectly. It'sgoing to happen exactly the way
that you have designed it everysingle time. You don't have to
(39:22):
try and outsource it to a personthat you then have to trust is
going to do it your way, yourtime, at a specific point in
time. All of the people in yourbusiness are doing things that
people can do and are reallyvaluable. Like they bring
valuable skills or thoughts toprocess, the moving the project
(39:44):
along the track, it is one ofthe most powerful things I think
you can do to make your businesscalmer.
Tanya Moushi (39:54):
I love that. That's really helpful. You have
settled my soul a little more.
Susan Boles (40:03):
What we focused on today wasn't just about fixing a
project management bottleneck.It was about designing systems
that let you step out of theweeds without losing quality or
compromising clientrelationships. We focused on two
key levers from the Calmerframework. First, business
design, specifically moving fromdefault ad hoc coordination to
(40:27):
intentional systems that can runwithout constant input. And
second, margins.
Not the version where you crammore in, but the kind that
creates margin by removingdecision fatigue and repetitive
tasks. The real insight here isthat productizing your services,
it's not about making themcheaper or less valuable. It's
(40:48):
actually about making them morereliable. When you systematize
the coordination, communication,and handoffs, your clients get a
more consistent experience. Yourteam knows exactly what to do
when, and you stop being asingle point of failure.
If you're listening andthinking, yep, that's me. I'm
the bottleneck. Here is a tinyaction to try this week. Pick
(41:10):
one recurring task that you'remanually doing and spend a few
minutes, no more than ninety,creating a template, a form, or
some sort of automated processfor it. Whether that means
client feedback collection,project status updates, handoff
communications, that ninetyminutes will likely save you
three to four hours every month.
(41:32):
The goal here isn't to removethe human touch, It's to make
sure the human touch happenswhere it actually adds value,
not in moving information frompoint a to point b. Thanks to
Tanya for being willing totroubleshoot her business in
real time. That takes guts and Iknow that other business owners
will see themselves in thisconversation. Until next time,
(41:53):
remember your expertise is theasset. Don't let coordination be
the thing that keeps you fromsharing it.
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