June 17, 2025 • 43 mins
What if the reason you're stuck isn't mindset—or even procrastination? What if you're just solving the wrong problem?
In this episode, I’m talking with Cat Mulvihill, creator of the Momentum Framework—a diagnostic tool that helps you figure out exactly why you’re stalled out in your business and what to do about it. Whether the block is a skills gap, an energy mismatch, or a lurking fear, Cat’s approach helps you pinpoint the true cause so you can move forward without forcing it.
We explore why momentum doesn’t need to be forced—and how understanding your method, mode, and mindset can make everything feel a whole lot easier.
What You’ll Learn:
- The three core bottlenecks that block momentum—and how to diagnose them
- Why systems that work with your brain create more sustainable progress
- The surprising downside of perfectionism and "Cadillac" tools
- How fear masquerades as procrastination (and how to call it out)
- Practical examples for redesigning your systems to match your energy and context
Learn More About Cat:
Website
Follow Cat on LinkedIn
The Momentum Formula
More from Susan:
Follow Susan on LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cat Mulvihill (00:00):
The missing part in a lot of traditional advice,
(00:02):
in my opinion, is that they onlyfocus on the why and they don't
focus on the why not.
Susan Boles (00:17):
What if the reason you're stuck isn't a mindset
issue? What if it's notresistance or procrastination or
impostor syndrome? What ifyou've just been solving the
wrong problem? Today, we'resolving for calm. One KPI, one
bottleneck, one business at atime.
You already know the feeling.You want to make progress,
(00:40):
launch the next product, show uponline, dial in your systems,
but somehow you're not. You keepgetting stuck and you can't
quite explain why. You start towonder if it's laziness or fear
or maybe you just don't want itenough. But what if that's not
it?
Today's guest is Kat Mulvihill,a creator and strategist who
(01:04):
developed the MomentumFramework, a diagnostic tool
that helps you understand whyyou're stalled and how to start
moving again. Whether yourstuckness is coming from a
skills gap, an energy mismatch,or an internal fear, CATS
framework gives you the tools todiagnose the bottleneck and
design momentum without relyingon hype, force, or pressure. In
(01:30):
this episode, we're pulling ontwo different levers from the
calmer framework, businessdesign and people and values.
First, business design. Becausewhen you use Kat's momentum
framework to identify why you'restuck, stuck, you can redesign
your process to actually workwith your brain.
Not in spite of it, not bymuscling through, but by
(01:50):
customizing your work to matchyour mode, your mindset, or your
missing method. And second,we're pulling the people and
values lever because thisapproach is rooted in
compassion. It's about buildingsystems that make sense for you,
that honor your energy, thatreflect your values, that don't
(02:11):
rely on external pressure orshame to be effective, and helps
you calibrate this lever frommoving from exploitative to
empathetic. When we design formomentum instead of demanding
it, we end up buildingbusinesses that are more
sustainable, more humane, andmore honest about what actually
helps us move forward. So youhave been spending a lot of time
(03:40):
lately thinking about how todesign work in a way that
creates momentum.
So tell me about that.
Cat Mulvihill (03:48):
Yeah, I have been interested for years on
productivity and attention andwhere we spend our time and I've
also specifically been reallyinterested in why sometimes we
can't change even when wesincerely mean to and for a very
long time I sort of thought itwas binary that you either had a
technical problem or an adaptiveproblem where you either needed
(04:11):
to figure out something new todo or you needed to change your
mindset. But it was recently inthe past year where I was
finally diagnosed with ADHD inmy 40s and I had this moment of
hold on, maybe it's not justthat you need a new skill set or
you need a new mindset, maybethere's something in the middle
and I just realized that we'reall wired differently. So while
(04:32):
in my case it's ADHD, I realizedthat it's not just about
neurodiversity and brainchemistry. It's also when we get
our energy, how we like to work,just our preferences, what are
we drawn towards, what do wegravitate away from. Oftentimes
we ignore this information whenwe are making changes and when
we're trying to design systemsfor our life.
(04:53):
So I started to think of it inthree buckets, and this is where
I came up with this idea of themomentum framework of how do we
clear these different types ofroadblocks because in my opinion
there are three roadblocks. Andin order to do that, we want to
have a method, a mode, andmindset. So all three of those
things come together for us tohave momentum.
Susan Boles (05:13):
So tell me about each bucket here and how they
all interact.
Cat Mulvihill (05:19):
Yeah. So the I guess the first place to start
would be understanding threedifferent roadblocks. So the
first I call a logical roadblockwhere you cannot move forward
because you are missinginformation. Maybe you are
missing key details about how todo something. Let's say you
download ClickUp for the firsttime ever.
You have a skill gap right now.You do not know how to use it.
You have to learn how to usesomething new. Once we solve
(05:42):
that gap and we have theinformation, maybe we watch a
tutorial, we start using it, westart to build those skills.
Well, then we want to startusing it.
That is a logical challenge. Andso in order to solve a logical
challenge, I call it a method.You want to have some sort of
plan in place where you've gotthe right information, the right
skills, and then implementation.So when do you use it? Where do
(06:04):
you use it?
And what are all the toolsinvolved? So that's a method.
Now the second type of roadblockthat we might face is the
biological roadblock, where weare working against our own
nature. I like to think of theidea of you're swimming against
the current. It's not thatyou're not capable of it.
It's just that it's exhaustingbecause we're working against
ourselves. And that is where wewant to address the mode. And
(06:27):
the mode is about whatmodifications can I make so that
this feels more natural, so thisfits, so that it's sustainable?
And that's where we need toreflect on things like, what is
my biology? When do I have themost energy?
Do I have ADHD or autism that isimpacting how I show up, how I
work, my style, but also myenvironment that I work in?
(06:49):
There are also things like howwe respond to expectations. So
me personally, if I say I'mgoing do it, maybe I'll put it
in my calendar, it's very quickto get ignored. But if I have a
buddy system, if I've got acoach, if I have accountability,
then I'll rise to the occasion.And then finally just paying
attention to what we like.
So if something we just don'tlike it, don't ignore that. And
(07:09):
so that's what I call mode isreally asking, well, how do we
like to work? What's the stylethat suits us? And what feels
natural so we could keeprepeating it? And then finally
the last roadblock is apsychological roadblock where we
usually have a fear of if Iactually take action, what bad
thing might happen?
Maybe I'll find out I'm not astalented as I thought I was. Or
(07:30):
maybe this is I'm in over myhead. The mindset piece is just
figuring out why are we holdingourselves back? It's like the
why not? Why am I not takingaction?
There's a reason for it. And ourbrains are very sophisticated.
So we want to try and adopt amindset that allows us to take
action.
Susan Boles (07:47):
All of that, at least for me, like, really
resonates with how I think aboutdesigning my own work. I'm
curious about how you actuallyapply this, either in your own
work or work you're doing withother folks.
Cat Mulvihill (08:00):
Yeah. Let's use an example. I was talking to an
entrepreneur not long ago whosaid, I'm trying to be more
present on LinkedIn, and youcould just tell there was the I
know I should and I'm strugglingwith it. So let's look at the
three different types ofroadblocks. So one is if we look
at method, if you are justlogging into LinkedIn posts and
then you just start scrollingthe feed, can be soul sucking
(08:22):
because maybe you are not seeingquality content, you're not
seeing the people you wish youcould see.
So an example of method, maybemissing information, is that you
don't realize you can save acustom search. And that is a
feature that is available onLinkedIn where you can go into
search and actually customize itso that you see specific
accounts, you see specifickeywords so that you can save
(08:44):
that search and just return tothat. And then that way you're
dictating how you spend yourtime. So you will actually be
more efficient if you use someof the tools, but you need to
know they exist. And so that'san example of an information gap
where you need to adjust themethod of how you show up.
Now, when it comes to mode, thiscould be time of day. So I knew
that when I was trying to be onLinkedIn early in the morning,
(09:07):
because that's when everybodyelse was on according to all the
pros, I would then walk awayfrom LinkedIn and my dopamine
was all over the place. I couldnot focus on my deep work. My
brain felt scattered. And so Iwas starting my day on the wrong
foot.
So that's an example of modes.And the other thing too with
content creation with mode is ifyou dread the idea of creating
(09:29):
videos but someone says youshould create videos, let go of
that. Maybe try something elsethat suits you better so that it
actually feels natural forcreating content. And then
finally, the mindset. If we lookat why someone might not be
posting regularly on LinkedIn,it's that they might have the
belief that people are going tothink I'm weird if I start
(09:49):
posting regularly.
With LinkedIn, it's often, Ihave people that I used to work
with fifteen years ago that areconnected with me on LinkedIn.
They're going start seeing myweird content about this
business I'm running, and maybethey'll judge me, or maybe we
don't want to be that annoyingperson or the person that people
just, they feel like they wantto mute our account. So we can
really get in our head and stopourselves from posting regularly
(10:12):
on LinkedIn because that issomething that we have a fear
around it of how are peoplegonna see me? Am I gonna find
myself annoying? And so we needto push back against those.
Susan Boles (10:22):
Okay. That example makes sense. But what if we
don't know what the problem is?What if we are at the point
where I know I want to dosomething, something you and I
have talked about multipletimes, is that, you know, I
haven't set up my studio. It'ssomething I want to do.
It's important to me, but I'mnot taking action. So how do I
(10:45):
go about figuring out which ofthe buckets I need to pay
attention to and what's actuallycausing the problem?
Cat Mulvihill (10:52):
Yeah. I love that example, actually, because I've
worked with a lot of people ontheir studio setup. I like to
start in order, starting withthe method, then the mode, and
then the mindset. So an examplefor your studio is I like to
ask, is there a skills orinformation gap? So with a
studio, you might have watchedsome tutorials, you've ordered
(11:12):
some gear.
So let's say you have a greatcamera, you have a great
microphone, but then you stop.So maybe an example would be,
what are some things that youthink are missing? Does it feel
like there's just a genuine gapwhere you can't move forward yet
because there's some piece orpart of the studio missing?
Susan Boles (11:27):
Yeah. For me, I do have both a great microphone and
a great camera. And my camera isso great that it's super
intimidating to try and figureout how to actually use it. So I
default to using my webcam,which is four k. It's not bad.
But the microphone I was alreadycomfortable with from having set
up the podcast. So, like, I gothalfway there. I'm very
(11:49):
comfortable with the audio partof the setup, but getting the
video part of the setup andgetting comfortable with a
camera that is very nice butalso very complex is super
overwhelming.
Cat Mulvihill (12:02):
Okay. So there is an information or skills gap.
You have a camera and you do notnecessarily know settings. So an
example of how do we close thatinformation gap, solving that
logical problem is maybe youneed to go onto a reputable
YouTube channel, someone whoknows cameras and explains, here
are the setup for a home studiowith this camera. I have watched
(12:24):
those videos.
That's how I set up my settings.And then once I had them set, I
left it. So that would be anexample of method. But let's say
that you watch the video, butyou still don't touch the
camera.
Susan Boles (12:34):
So things that I have done to solve this problem,
purchased a course specific tomy camera to walk me through the
settings, worked with aconsultant to help me set it up,
and I ran out of time because Igot busy and bought a second
course to help me set it up. Iwatched some of the camera
(12:56):
specific content. And to behonest, I got overwhelmed. I
think I just need a simplercamera.
Cat Mulvihill (13:05):
So that is possible. I actually really like
the idea of what is sort of thisminimum viable method that is
going to work for me. It's notthat you are not capable of
figuring out this camera. Itmight be too much camera right
now. It's like when someone buysthe Cadillac of something the
first time they're starting anew hobby and then get, they
spend all the money on thefanciest thing.
Susan Boles (13:25):
I do that.
Cat Mulvihill (13:26):
That is very, very common because you have
this desire for quality. Now,when I hear you talking about
it, I think, yes, it's possiblethere's just not the right
camera for you, but also theremight be some mindset stuff. So
I think with tech, lot of peopleare worried that they can't
manage the thing that theybought. So this might be about
challenging it. And so a way tochallenge it might be to say,
(13:46):
okay, I'm going to allocate onehour, put it in your calendar,
and just say, I'm going to givemyself one hour to try these
settings because what happenswhen we imagine taking action on
the thing we've been avoiding,we can often tap into discomfort
that we feel of maybe I'm inover my head, Maybe this will
somehow prove that I'mincompetent or I'm not capable
(14:08):
of doing that, and those arevery strong feelings that we
don't want to experience, sowe'll stop ourselves from doing
it, and even if you say it outloud and logically you think
that's silly.
Of course, I can figure out acamera. We tend to try to reduce
it, but in actual fact, it'shaving an impact on us because
it's stopping us from takingaction. So being able to gently
push back on it, and that mightbe, I'm going to give myself a
(14:30):
chance. And if it works, great.If it doesn't work, maybe I try
something new.
But a lot of us aren't willingto try because we don't wanna
find out that we're bad or thatwe can't figure it out or feel
stupid. And those are legitimateconcerns that people have. But
if you had to learn a newlanguage or learn an instrument,
do you ever expect to be perfectthe first time?
Susan Boles (14:49):
Yes. I do. I'm an Enneagram three. I am perfect at
everything the first time.
Cat Mulvihill (14:53):
So the example would be, though, that for most
of us we realize that it's notgoing to be perfect the first
time out, but we want it. So itmakes total sense then. You say
you have this qualityexpectation and so you're afraid
that maybe I can't meet it, andby actually going through with
it, by finishing the course, byactually doing the thing, what
(15:13):
if I realize that I can't andI'm not capable? Now you have a
stack of experience from thepast of all these times where
you overcame things, you figuredthem out, and you were able to
make progress. Just that we'rekind of holding ourselves back.
Susan Boles (15:27):
What's interesting for me is that, like, there are
places where I'm totally finebeing a novice. Right? So, like,
digital technology, I will godown the rabbit hole, and I will
have the most fun figuring outnew digital technology. And this
is one where even though it istechnological, it's like
physical technology to me. And Ithink that's a whole different
(15:50):
bucket in my brain.
The part that I'm interested inis doing the content, not
getting to that point. It's beeninteresting for me because
normally, I'm actually excitedabout learning new things. And I
think this is because I'm notinterested in learning how to
set up a camera. It's somethingI have to do to do the part that
(16:11):
I am interested in learning,which is the actual video
production piece. I just want itto be done.
Cat Mulvihill (16:17):
I think there can be multiple layers to it,
though. I also believe we canstart to get comfortable with
not taking action, and thenstart to sort of back it up.
Sometimes we can protectourselves by not taking action
because we know exactly whywe're not getting the result we
want.
Susan Boles (16:33):
When I started the podcast, I was really interested
in the content and developing myinterview skills and how I,
like, craft crafted the episodesand, like, writing the scripts.
That part was reallyinteresting. And I was
completely uninterested inlearning how to edit the
podcast. It's all very, like,detailed. Yes.
(16:53):
And that's why I always workedwith an editor because it was
just one of those where this isjust something that's not
interesting to me. It doesn'twork in my like, how I like to
work and the type of work that Ilike to do. I'm so relieved that
I made that decision very earlyon and said, you know what? If
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonnafocus on getting good at the
piece that I'm interested in,and I'm going to let go of
(17:16):
learning the other piece becausethe part that I'm interested in
is hard enough. I feel the sameway about my camera settings.
I really just want the camera tobe set so I can just go do the
part that I'm interested in.It's much harder to solve that
problem when you live in a veryremote area in the mountains. I
can't just call somebody and belike, hey, can you come set up
(17:38):
my camera?
Cat Mulvihill (17:39):
It sounds a lot of, like, the reflection that
you're making is on that mode.When we ask about our
preferences, what we're good at,what we gravitate towards and
away from, is that you mightactually wanna write yourself a
permission slip of just sellingthe camera.
Susan Boles (17:54):
I think that's what I've come to two years after I
bought the damn thing. In termsof, like, my environmental work,
I need to be able to hit abutton Yes. And just record.
Cat Mulvihill (18:04):
So we can have a lot of pressure on ourselves.
And there is pressure in thecreator space, especially of
having the fancy gear and havingall of this stuff because to us
it exemplifies a level ofquality and how seriously we
take it, etc. But when youreflect on what is most
important and getting thecontent out there is the most
important thing, it doesn't haveto be perfectly polished And
there are actually greatexamples of people who do not
(18:26):
have fancy setups. And becausethe content is good, that's all
that you need. When it comes tocontent, my YouTube videos are
almost all one take.
And that to me, that's my mode.I know that this is the way for
me to have that natural fitwhere it feels sustainable. You
want a method and a mode thatwork together so that you can
imagine repeating it. And sowhen you have those together, a
good method with a mode thatworks with you, that's where
(18:48):
it's sustainable system. It'ssomething you can keep doing
over and over again.
Susan Boles (18:52):
That's for me, what I've come back to is I just
always have to be returning towhat works for me. I like your
bucket system because it doeswhat is blocking, what's the
challenge here. And I do thatweekly, actually, as part of my
review, but I tend not to do itin a big picture thing. At the
(19:12):
end of the week on Friday, whenI do my weekly reflection
process, I look at what tasksdid I schedule for this week
that didn't get done and try anddeconstruct why didn't this get
done. Is it something that Ididn't know how to do, something
I wasn't interested in doing,something that I honestly just
got too busy and didn't havetime to tackle?
But I've never really done it ona more big picture scale, which
(19:35):
I think this is a really goodapproach for.
Cat Mulvihill (19:39):
I think those reflections are so important.
And the other thing withstarting with method is really
nice because there might be somesmall tweaks we could make that
will actually empower us to takethe action. So if we look at the
example that you just shared ofeach week looking back, what
didn't work? And something Iexperienced recently is just
changing the language that I usefor the task or the action I
(20:00):
have to take can be reallypowerful. And in an example, I
would put something in my dailycalendar of just workout and I
would just skip it.
But I knew it was important tome. And so I started to change
language. So at the start of theyear, I'm a Peloton member and
they have this one hundred daystreak challenge. So I decided
instead of just saying do aworkout or something like that,
(20:23):
I said keep your one hundred daystreak going. That's the actual
language I see when it comes upin front of me.
That's a way of changing themethod because I am making a
slight switch to how I phrasesomething. And that is tapping
into me in a way that works. Sothen it started working. So when
you're looking at your tasks ofthe week, if you keep pushing it
back, looking at the time of daythat you're expecting yourself
(20:45):
to do it or when you hadscheduled it, the clarity that
you use or how you actually talkabout the thing you have to do,
sometimes even making some ofthose tweaks to the method can
really help. And then if youkeep on neglecting to do those
things, I think then it's worthlooking at mode and how do I
like to work.
And then finally, if I keep onnot doing certain tasks each
week when I look at that list,is there some sort of fear? Is
(21:07):
there something I'm avoiding?And I need to adjust my mindset.
Susan Boles (21:11):
I think the other piece I would add is that
oftentimes when I'm not doingsomething, it's because I say
it's important, but it's notactually important to me. It's
something I feel like I shouldbe doing. So trying to really
dig deeply into the why is thisimportant to me to try and
(21:34):
evaluate, is it actuallyimportant to me? For example,
we've been talking about settingup my studio. Yes.
It's important to me, but it'snot as important to me as all of
the other things on my list.
Cat Mulvihill (21:50):
Yeah. Mindset is two parts. So mindset is why?
Why do I care? Why does thismatter to me?
So it's that looking forward.It's that vision. It's that
target we have, and that's thefuel. That's the thing that's
going to actually get us intoaction. If we don't care, well
why would we put any effort intoit anyway?
But the missing part in a lot oftraditional advice in my opinion
(22:12):
is that they only focus on thewhy and they don't focus on the
why not, and that is where wecan tap into why am I holding
myself back from doing it, andthat's where we get into the
fear, this dreaded image, thisdreaded identity of the person
we don't want to be. And so whenwe can look at both, what's my
why? Do I have one? Is itstrong? Because if it's really
not strong then we're justdragging this expectation along
(22:35):
with us and it's really doing usno good, but if it is a strong
why, but we're stuck, it'salways worth asking, what am I
afraid is going to happen if Istart committing time to this?
Susan Boles (22:51):
So how are you taking this big conceptual
framework and applying it on thetactical level?
Cat Mulvihill (23:01):
I know a lot of service based entrepreneurs or
many entrepreneurs who just say,I know I need systems, and they
are going to help with mybusiness. They have a very
strong why for the systems.There is no shortage of reasons
why I should design systems, butthey're not doing it. And that
is so, so common. So if we takethat example of I know I should
have systems, but I'm not doingit, this is the type of thing
(23:23):
where anytime you feel stuck onsomething that genuinely matters
to you and you just can't seemto get traction, either you're
totally frozen or you kind ofstart stop.
So if we take that example of Iwant to build a system. This is
where I think there's an exampleof the method is asking what
information or skills, what'sthe gap? And for many people,
(23:45):
it's a daunting task of what isthe right system? And you might
need to break it up. The method,there might be two parts where
you have to do a little bit ofresearch.
So maybe giving yourself a timeframe and saying, Okay, over the
next two weeks, I'm going tocommit a couple of hours a week
to doing some research, reachingout to an expert. Maybe it's
taking a course and also giveyourself a hard stop. But then
(24:06):
there's also the, Okay, I needto construct the system. And
that's the other place where alot of people, maybe they have
actually done the research, theyalready know the system that
they should be building. Theymight have ideas of how to do
it, but they're not doing it.
And so you need to have thatimplementation. So it's a
combination of, do you have theskills? Do you have the
information? But also when is ithappening? When are you building
(24:28):
your systems?
And where are you doing that? Soare you setting aside maybe one
hour every morning over the nexttwo weeks? Or are you setting
aside a day? Maybe you'reprotecting a Friday. Actually,
being so clear on theimplementation that there is no
confusion when it's time towork, you actually know what
you're doing.
And so that's part of the methodis do I have all the information
(24:49):
I need? Am I able to do this? DoI have the skills? And when is
it happening? Where is ithappening?
And what are the tools that Ineed in order to implement this?
So it's having that plan and itneeds to be clear and hopefully
not overly complicated. I thinkwe have a tendency to
overcomplicate things because wewant the most sophisticated
system when in reality just whatis enough for us to make forward
(25:11):
progress. Then when it comes tomode, this is the example of
what is going to work for me. Sowhen it comes to systems, that's
both a combination of, from animplementation standpoint, does
it work better for me to sit ona call with Susan and work
through exactly what has tohappen or actually do an
implementation call?
(25:31):
So mode is really how will thisfit me? How will this work? Even
things like how am I capturinginformation? So if I'm setting
up as part of my system, I wantto capture some standard
operating procedures. Are yousomeone where it's just so much
easier for you to just record ascreen recording with your
microphone and walk through whatyou're doing?
Or are you someone who's moremethodical and wants to sit down
(25:52):
and write step by stepinstructions of how you would do
it? So there are lots ofdifferent ways to approach it,
and there's not one perfect waynecessarily. I do think when it
comes to mode, though, you haveto consider some constraints.
You might be on a team where youhave to do certain things. So
then you can just start to say,is there a way that I can make
this feel a little bit more funor enjoyable for me to actually
(26:14):
get through this?
And then when it comes tomindset, there are a lot of
people who are nervous aboutimplementing a system because
what if they choose the wrongsystem? What if they invest all
this time into setting up asystem and nobody uses it? And I
start to feel like maybe I'm notcut out for this or maybe I'm in
over my head or maybe thisbusiness isn't what I thought I
was. It's like we're almost likewe're afraid to start going
(26:36):
through the business because wedon't necessarily want to
confront what we're going tofind. So it's just easier to not
go there.
Susan Boles (26:44):
Yeah. Every entrepreneur I've ever talked
to, for the most part, pointstowards their therapist as the
best investment in theirbusiness. Because there's so
much head trash that we allcarry around with us that really
does prevent us from movingforward or even doing something
that is seemingly simple, likesetting up a system. But if it
was actually that simple, Iwould not be a mistress.
Cat Mulvihill (27:07):
Exactly. Even if we go back to the start with
implementation. So I know thatboth you and I have worked with
people to set up systems before.And in my case, when we would
sit down together, we would gothrough what changes have to be
made. We would talk about it.
We even start making changes,but then the actual follow
through. There's the stuff youget done on the call and then
there's the homework and thenthe next time you get on a call
(27:28):
none of the homework's done. Andpart of that is as simple as
there was no dedicated time whenit was going to happen, how you
were going to get it done, andso when it came time to actually
do the homework, they're notdoing the homework, and often
that is a failure of I'll find atime. It's too vague, and so you
really need to go back to do youactually have a plan that's
complete and that's clear enoughso that you know what you're
(27:50):
working on when it's time to dothe work?
Susan Boles (27:52):
So I am curious how this can work and stay flexible.
For example, those of us withchronic illnesses don't
necessarily have access toenergy at the time we think
we're going to have energy. It'ssuper unpredictable. So if we're
(28:14):
looking at creating a plan andwe want the plan to be detailed
enough, enough, but it stillneeds to stay flexible enough to
be able to be responsive to whenand how we have energy.
Likewise, if you're a parent,your kid gets sick and throws
off your whole week.
How do you approach the planningphase where it's detailed enough
(28:36):
but still flexible enough to beresponsive?
Cat Mulvihill (28:40):
I mean, the beauty of it is that it's
personalized. So one person'smethod could look different than
another person's method or theycould look similar. And so the
beauty of it is that it'scustomized to your context and
to what is going to work foryou. I can't prescribe a method
to someone. I actually wantpeople to do some research and
to, based on your context andyour goals and what you want,
(29:03):
what are the things you have todo?
What sort of that minimum viablemethod that's going to move you
forward? You want it to besimple enough, but not so simple
that it's incomplete or thatthings are missing. So you do
want to still have some of thosethings like the implementation.
When is it happening? Becausesomething can happen at any time
often happens at no time.
So for me, setting somethingtowards a day I think I can do
(29:27):
it is a really good way thatthat works for me. I might say,
Okay, I'm recording on Wednesdayafternoon. That doesn't feel
super restrictive to me, and Ialso know that if I had to move
it, I can. We also go throughseasons of our lives. Sometimes
you might need a simpler methodto get you through a really
tough season where you maybedon't have the capacity that you
normally have.
If you have health complicationsyou need to consider, those need
(29:49):
to be factored into your methodand so you as an individual
knows what's best for you. Youcan look outside for inspiration
from other people on what's themethod that will help me drive
this forward, but ultimately youhave to decide what is going to
work for you. So let's use ahealth example. When I learned
in the last year, so it's not aformal diagnosis, but suspected
(30:10):
diagnosis on the hypermobilityspectrum disorder causes a ton
of chronic pain and issues,joint stability. Spent twenty
five years in physiotherapy andchiropractor and all that stuff.
And I didn't know until thispast year that that was even a
thing. I knew I was hypermobile.I had no idea, though, the
impact it can have on all sortsof aspects of your life. When it
(30:31):
comes to health, my method wastraditional strength training,
but it would always land me backin physio. It would always land
me with injuries.
Once I actually had moreinformation about me and how I'm
wired, I was able to go back tothe drawing board and say, I got
to change methods. I need adifferent method that's still
effective, that is going to helpme with my health and my fitness
and my strength, that isn'tgoing to land me with injury.
(30:53):
So, for example, Pilates canwork really well for me. It's a
different method that is basedon what I know about myself. So
when it comes to business, thereare multiple ways to run your
business.
There are multiple ways tomanage your time, multiple ways
to set up systems. So maybesomeone with chronic health
problems needs more margin.Maybe if you are kind of
overcapacity, peel things back.You also probably have to tap
(31:16):
into some mindset work on ourmethod. Maybe we're expecting
too much from ourselves.
And so we have to right size ourexpectations. So and I would say
it's also dynamic. Dynamic. It'snot like you just do this once
and say, is my method, this ismy mode, this is my mindset.
Because we keep changing, ourexperiences change, our context
changes, and so we have to beable to go back and say, okay,
(31:37):
can I make some adjustmentswhere I still have a complete
method but maybe it looks alittle different?
Susan Boles (31:52):
What is your own favorite way to make your work
calmer?
Cat Mulvihill (31:57):
It's funny that you say that because I have a
propensity to fall into thesetraps over and over, and an
example this year is that I havehad some uncertainty in my
personal life. And so I havewanted to go full force because
I have this new framework andI'm so excited to talk about it
and I want everything to bedone. And then I recognize,
(32:18):
woah, woah, woah, you areexpecting way too much right
now. There's some uncertainty,and you cannot predict
everything that's going tohappen. So this is a season of
my life where I had to slow thepace down.
And so I did that. But then Istart to ramp up again. And then
I'll delay a project and say,oh, I can breathe. It feels
good. It feels aligned.
And then once I have that freetime, I say, okay, now I need to
(32:39):
jam all this free time. So I'mconstantly doing this back and
forth. And so something thatreally well for me is journaling
every morning. But the whatworks for me to be sustainable,
it's only one page. I do nothave to write more than one
page, and in fact, I try to justcontain it to one page.
I can do that in a normal amountof time, usually while I'm
drinking coffee, and that willoften help me right size because
(33:02):
I can start to tell if thingsare starting to get away for me,
and it can pull me back. It's ait's a work in progress.
Susan Boles (33:09):
You know, one of the reasons I like to use the
word calmer instead of the wordcalm is because it is. It's
always a work in progress.Nothing is ever gonna be ideally
perfectly calm. It's an ethos toalways strive to be getting just
a little bit just take tinyactions a little bit calmer, but
(33:29):
being realistic about the factthat nothing is ever going to be
calm.
Cat Mulvihill (33:33):
We live in a world Exactly.
Susan Boles (33:34):
Humans and chaos, and stuff is gonna happen.
Approaching it as somethingexperimental or iterative. The
more you learn about yourself,the better you are going to be
able to find the right method,the right mode, the right
mindset.
Cat Mulvihill (33:49):
I actually love that you said that because there
are a couple of things. One isthat it's really important to
understand that no matter whichone you're working on, each one
requires that you take someaction. You will not know if it
works until you try it. So ifyou make a change to your
method, try it. Does that work?
Then you can make a tweak. Ifyou're making a change to your
(34:09):
mode, you have to actually tryit. So maybe you're switching up
the time of day, You have to tryit in order to know if it works.
And same with mindset, in orderto push back and challenge a
belief that might be keeping usstuck, you have to take action
and pay attention what happenswhen I take action, even though
I feel a little bit afraid ofsomething happening. All of them
require action.
And as you mentioned, we canoften wait. We want it to be
(34:31):
perfect. So we have to work onour mindset around taking
imperfect action. Just haveenough information to start
moving forward, make enough of achange because they will never
be perfect before you getstarted. So we need to push back
on that belief.
I also, I think the other thingthat I really want to stress is
that it can be extremelyoverwhelming if I say it's
(34:52):
completely personal, you canfigure out your own method. I
just want to follow exactly whatto do. However, I think that
sometimes we are, we don't trustourselves enough. And so I think
if you can tap in and trustyourself, that you can figure
out what works for you. You canbe inspired by other people.
You can take ideas from otherpeople, but your context is
(35:12):
different, how you're wired isdifferent, all of that. Look for
that inspiration, but lookinward for guidance because
ultimately we're going to knowwhat is going to suit us, what
is going to fit us. And as wetake action and experiment with
things, we can make those coursecorrections and those
adjustments.
Susan Boles (35:28):
Yeah, I love that. That's how it's worked is
finding people who thinksimilarly, their brain works
similarly, they have similarsituations, maybe they're a
parent, maybe they're alsochronically ill. Everybody has
all of these overlappingidentities and ways that you
interact in the world. And so,you know, a 25 year old cis het
(35:52):
white dude with a spouse whodoes everything and no kids, his
productivity advice is not gonnawork for me. It's just gonna
make me angry.
We don't all have the sametwenty four hours and we're not
all coming into the world in thesame And so being able to look
to examples of folks who aredealing with the same challenges
(36:14):
and see how they might approachthis and getting a variety of
different ideas to be able topick and choose from. That was
the point behind starting thispodcast was just to give myself
ideas of ways that people aregoing about the world and their
business to be able to pick andchoose what might work for me or
(36:34):
what might work for somebodyelse.
Cat Mulvihill (36:36):
And I think you could also look to your past
because there is a very goodchance that you have stumbled
upon something that works foryou in one area of your life
that could translate into otherareas of your life. So I wish I
was not a person who neededaccountability. I wish it there
were times where I just so badlywanted to be a person who could
(36:56):
just say, I'm going to do thething and do the thing and to
the point where I was justcausing struggle. So now that
I've embraced it and I realizethat the times when I have maybe
been the most consistent or mostsuccessful is often when I have
some form of accountability. Andthat can look totally different.
Sometimes it's actually hiringsomeone as, say, a trainer or
something. But it can also looklike I've been using the
(37:17):
Reminders app that has recurringreminders and I'm playing with
the language so that when I seethat reminder, like, keep your
streak going. It's just theselittle things that we can do.
And if you learn from otherareas of your life, how can I
implement that into this newproject or goal or habit that
I'm trying to develop? What do Ialready know about myself?
Because odds are you've actuallylearned some really valuable
information about how you'rewired, how you work, what works,
(37:40):
and you can also translate that.
Susan Boles (37:41):
Yeah. As somebody who cannot do accountability,
like accountability in no wayworks for me, and I am deviant
avoidance. But it took me areally long time to realize
that. Like, at one point in mybusiness, I actually hired
essentially an accountabilityservice where like you have a
call at the beginning of theweek and you tell them what
(38:03):
you're gonna do. And then at theend of the week, they call to
check and make sure that you didthose things.
And I would specifically not doany of the things that I told
them I was doing at thebeginning of the week and then
lie to them about having donethose things at the end of the
week. I got a lot of thingsdone, just never the things that
I said I was gonna do. I didn'tlast
Cat Mulvihill (38:23):
very But
Susan Boles (38:24):
as kind of a counterpoint example, really
paying attention to, is thissomething that works for me? Or
is this something that'sactually almost
counterproductive?
Cat Mulvihill (38:34):
I call it the friction principle, but the idea
is anytime you experiencefriction. So if you see that
list and you suddenly you do notwant to do it, you want to do
anything but that, that is asign something needs to be
adjusted. So in your example,having an accountability partner
that just did not work. So thatfriction is a sign that you need
to investigate. So get curiousand say, what is going on?
(38:57):
Why am I doing this? And I thinkfriction can be so informative
because it's showing us thatsomething probably needs to
change.
Susan Boles (39:04):
Yep. And for me, I had to think about how do I
build more autonomy in all of myprocesses? I ended up instead of
having like really specificproject plans, I had to go to
basically a project vault of,like, here's a list of things I
would like to get done. I'mgonna do one of these things.
Which of these things feels likethe thing I would like to do
(39:26):
today?
Cat Mulvihill (39:27):
Yeah. Having that freedom. Most people who are
resistant to externalexpectations, as soon as someone
says to do it, you suddenlydon't want to do it. They tend
to value freedom. Now, one ofthe mindset things, to work on,
if you feel that doing theopposite of what someone expects
is actually not freedom either.
So true freedom is when you payattention to what you really
(39:50):
want, and you do it whether ornot someone else expects it of
you. So sometimes if it's justour gut instinct to resist and
rebel against what someoneexpects, I think it's worth
doing that little check of, oh,wait, I value freedom, but am I
actually feeling free? Or am Ijust being directed by doing the
opposite of what people expect?Because that's not actually
freedom. So I think that canalso be a helpful thing to
(40:12):
check-in with too.
Now for me, I also value freedomin a slightly different way
where I actually resiststructure. I don't want my week,
my day, my minute, my minute tofeel like it is overpowered just
outside my control. So I wantthat freedom and flexibility.
But when I have some structure,I actually have more freedom
(40:32):
because the absence of structureis chaos. If I don't have any
kind of structure, it's notfreedom either.
So for me, freedom means havingsome structure that I can play
with and have flexibility, butnot be complete wild wild west.
Okay. It was a real mindsetthing of what does freedom
actually look like.
Susan Boles (40:57):
There's something really powerful about naming
your friction. Not topathologize it, but to
understand it. That's what Ilove about CATS Momentum
Framework. It doesn't assumeyou're the problem. It invites
you to zoom in and ask what kindof stuck is this and what would
make movement feel easier.
(41:18):
That kind of clarity is thepower that helps us pull two key
levers from the calmerframework. The business design,
because when you can see whysomething isn't working, you can
start designing systems thatmove with your brain, not
against it. And the second leveris people and values because the
way you work should honor whoyou are. Your energy, your
(41:39):
fears, your rhythms. Progressdoesn't have to come from
pressure.
So if you're navigating frictionright now, whether that is in
your content, your systems, yourvisibility, your client
delivery, here's one tiny actionyou can take to start moving
towards calm. Just name yourstuckness. Bring one stalled out
(42:01):
task to mind and then ask, am Ifrozen because of mindset? Fear,
doubt, or uncertainty. Is this amethod gap?
Am I missing steps, or am Iunclear about the next move? Or
is it about mode? Do you havethe wrong context, the wrong
energy, or the wrong timing?Just naming it can shift
(42:24):
something. It gives youdirection, not just to act, but
to design from.
And that's the real win, forwardmotion that fits you. If you
want to know more about CAT orthe Momentum formula, you can
(42:44):
click the link in the shownotes. If this conversation
helped you rethink how youapproach momentum in your
business and you are ready todesign a business that actually
works with your brain, notagainst it, I have more where
this came from. Each week, Isend a newsletter focused on
tiny, actionable ways to build abusiness that supports your
energy, your goals, and yourmargins. Or if you're ready for
(43:07):
hands on support, you can checkout how we can work together at
beyondmargins.com.
Either way, I'll be right herehelping you solve for calm. One
KPI, one bottleneck, onebusiness at a time.
The missing part in a lot of traditional advice,
(00:02):
in my opinion, is that they onlyfocus on the why and they don't
focus on the why not.
Susan Boles (00:17):
What if the reason you're stuck isn't a mindset
issue? What if it's notresistance or procrastination or
impostor syndrome? What ifyou've just been solving the
wrong problem? Today, we'resolving for calm. One KPI, one
bottleneck, one business at atime.
You already know the feeling.You want to make progress,
(00:40):
launch the next product, show uponline, dial in your systems,
but somehow you're not. You keepgetting stuck and you can't
quite explain why. You start towonder if it's laziness or fear
or maybe you just don't want itenough. But what if that's not
it?
Today's guest is Kat Mulvihill,a creator and strategist who
(01:04):
developed the MomentumFramework, a diagnostic tool
that helps you understand whyyou're stalled and how to start
moving again. Whether yourstuckness is coming from a
skills gap, an energy mismatch,or an internal fear, CATS
framework gives you the tools todiagnose the bottleneck and
design momentum without relyingon hype, force, or pressure. In
(01:30):
this episode, we're pulling ontwo different levers from the
calmer framework, businessdesign and people and values.
First, business design. Becausewhen you use Kat's momentum
framework to identify why you'restuck, stuck, you can redesign
your process to actually workwith your brain.
Not in spite of it, not bymuscling through, but by
(01:50):
customizing your work to matchyour mode, your mindset, or your
missing method. And second,we're pulling the people and
values lever because thisapproach is rooted in
compassion. It's about buildingsystems that make sense for you,
that honor your energy, thatreflect your values, that don't
(02:11):
rely on external pressure orshame to be effective, and helps
you calibrate this lever frommoving from exploitative to
empathetic. When we design formomentum instead of demanding
it, we end up buildingbusinesses that are more
sustainable, more humane, andmore honest about what actually
helps us move forward. So youhave been spending a lot of time
(03:40):
lately thinking about how todesign work in a way that
creates momentum.
So tell me about that.
Cat Mulvihill (03:48):
Yeah, I have been interested for years on
productivity and attention andwhere we spend our time and I've
also specifically been reallyinterested in why sometimes we
can't change even when wesincerely mean to and for a very
long time I sort of thought itwas binary that you either had a
technical problem or an adaptiveproblem where you either needed
(04:11):
to figure out something new todo or you needed to change your
mindset. But it was recently inthe past year where I was
finally diagnosed with ADHD inmy 40s and I had this moment of
hold on, maybe it's not justthat you need a new skill set or
you need a new mindset, maybethere's something in the middle
and I just realized that we'reall wired differently. So while
(04:32):
in my case it's ADHD, I realizedthat it's not just about
neurodiversity and brainchemistry. It's also when we get
our energy, how we like to work,just our preferences, what are
we drawn towards, what do wegravitate away from. Oftentimes
we ignore this information whenwe are making changes and when
we're trying to design systemsfor our life.
(04:53):
So I started to think of it inthree buckets, and this is where
I came up with this idea of themomentum framework of how do we
clear these different types ofroadblocks because in my opinion
there are three roadblocks. Andin order to do that, we want to
have a method, a mode, andmindset. So all three of those
things come together for us tohave momentum.
Susan Boles (05:13):
So tell me about each bucket here and how they
all interact.
Cat Mulvihill (05:19):
Yeah. So the I guess the first place to start
would be understanding threedifferent roadblocks. So the
first I call a logical roadblockwhere you cannot move forward
because you are missinginformation. Maybe you are
missing key details about how todo something. Let's say you
download ClickUp for the firsttime ever.
You have a skill gap right now.You do not know how to use it.
You have to learn how to usesomething new. Once we solve
(05:42):
that gap and we have theinformation, maybe we watch a
tutorial, we start using it, westart to build those skills.
Well, then we want to startusing it.
That is a logical challenge. Andso in order to solve a logical
challenge, I call it a method.You want to have some sort of
plan in place where you've gotthe right information, the right
skills, and then implementation.So when do you use it? Where do
(06:04):
you use it?
And what are all the toolsinvolved? So that's a method.
Now the second type of roadblockthat we might face is the
biological roadblock, where weare working against our own
nature. I like to think of theidea of you're swimming against
the current. It's not thatyou're not capable of it.
It's just that it's exhaustingbecause we're working against
ourselves. And that is where wewant to address the mode. And
(06:27):
the mode is about whatmodifications can I make so that
this feels more natural, so thisfits, so that it's sustainable?
And that's where we need toreflect on things like, what is
my biology? When do I have themost energy?
Do I have ADHD or autism that isimpacting how I show up, how I
work, my style, but also myenvironment that I work in?
(06:49):
There are also things like howwe respond to expectations. So
me personally, if I say I'mgoing do it, maybe I'll put it
in my calendar, it's very quickto get ignored. But if I have a
buddy system, if I've got acoach, if I have accountability,
then I'll rise to the occasion.And then finally just paying
attention to what we like.
So if something we just don'tlike it, don't ignore that. And
(07:09):
so that's what I call mode isreally asking, well, how do we
like to work? What's the stylethat suits us? And what feels
natural so we could keeprepeating it? And then finally
the last roadblock is apsychological roadblock where we
usually have a fear of if Iactually take action, what bad
thing might happen?
Maybe I'll find out I'm not astalented as I thought I was. Or
(07:30):
maybe this is I'm in over myhead. The mindset piece is just
figuring out why are we holdingourselves back? It's like the
why not? Why am I not takingaction?
There's a reason for it. And ourbrains are very sophisticated.
So we want to try and adopt amindset that allows us to take
action.
Susan Boles (07:47):
All of that, at least for me, like, really
resonates with how I think aboutdesigning my own work. I'm
curious about how you actuallyapply this, either in your own
work or work you're doing withother folks.
Cat Mulvihill (08:00):
Yeah. Let's use an example. I was talking to an
entrepreneur not long ago whosaid, I'm trying to be more
present on LinkedIn, and youcould just tell there was the I
know I should and I'm strugglingwith it. So let's look at the
three different types ofroadblocks. So one is if we look
at method, if you are justlogging into LinkedIn posts and
then you just start scrollingthe feed, can be soul sucking
(08:22):
because maybe you are not seeingquality content, you're not
seeing the people you wish youcould see.
So an example of method, maybemissing information, is that you
don't realize you can save acustom search. And that is a
feature that is available onLinkedIn where you can go into
search and actually customize itso that you see specific
accounts, you see specifickeywords so that you can save
(08:44):
that search and just return tothat. And then that way you're
dictating how you spend yourtime. So you will actually be
more efficient if you use someof the tools, but you need to
know they exist. And so that'san example of an information gap
where you need to adjust themethod of how you show up.
Now, when it comes to mode, thiscould be time of day. So I knew
that when I was trying to be onLinkedIn early in the morning,
(09:07):
because that's when everybodyelse was on according to all the
pros, I would then walk awayfrom LinkedIn and my dopamine
was all over the place. I couldnot focus on my deep work. My
brain felt scattered. And so Iwas starting my day on the wrong
foot.
So that's an example of modes.And the other thing too with
content creation with mode is ifyou dread the idea of creating
(09:29):
videos but someone says youshould create videos, let go of
that. Maybe try something elsethat suits you better so that it
actually feels natural forcreating content. And then
finally, the mindset. If we lookat why someone might not be
posting regularly on LinkedIn,it's that they might have the
belief that people are going tothink I'm weird if I start
(09:49):
posting regularly.
With LinkedIn, it's often, Ihave people that I used to work
with fifteen years ago that areconnected with me on LinkedIn.
They're going start seeing myweird content about this
business I'm running, and maybethey'll judge me, or maybe we
don't want to be that annoyingperson or the person that people
just, they feel like they wantto mute our account. So we can
really get in our head and stopourselves from posting regularly
(10:12):
on LinkedIn because that issomething that we have a fear
around it of how are peoplegonna see me? Am I gonna find
myself annoying? And so we needto push back against those.
Susan Boles (10:22):
Okay. That example makes sense. But what if we
don't know what the problem is?What if we are at the point
where I know I want to dosomething, something you and I
have talked about multipletimes, is that, you know, I
haven't set up my studio. It'ssomething I want to do.
It's important to me, but I'mnot taking action. So how do I
(10:45):
go about figuring out which ofthe buckets I need to pay
attention to and what's actuallycausing the problem?
Cat Mulvihill (10:52):
Yeah. I love that example, actually, because I've
worked with a lot of people ontheir studio setup. I like to
start in order, starting withthe method, then the mode, and
then the mindset. So an examplefor your studio is I like to
ask, is there a skills orinformation gap? So with a
studio, you might have watchedsome tutorials, you've ordered
(11:12):
some gear.
So let's say you have a greatcamera, you have a great
microphone, but then you stop.So maybe an example would be,
what are some things that youthink are missing? Does it feel
like there's just a genuine gapwhere you can't move forward yet
because there's some piece orpart of the studio missing?
Susan Boles (11:27):
Yeah. For me, I do have both a great microphone and
a great camera. And my camera isso great that it's super
intimidating to try and figureout how to actually use it. So I
default to using my webcam,which is four k. It's not bad.
But the microphone I was alreadycomfortable with from having set
up the podcast. So, like, I gothalfway there. I'm very
(11:49):
comfortable with the audio partof the setup, but getting the
video part of the setup andgetting comfortable with a
camera that is very nice butalso very complex is super
overwhelming.
Cat Mulvihill (12:02):
Okay. So there is an information or skills gap.
You have a camera and you do notnecessarily know settings. So an
example of how do we close thatinformation gap, solving that
logical problem is maybe youneed to go onto a reputable
YouTube channel, someone whoknows cameras and explains, here
are the setup for a home studiowith this camera. I have watched
(12:24):
those videos.
That's how I set up my settings.And then once I had them set, I
left it. So that would be anexample of method. But let's say
that you watch the video, butyou still don't touch the
camera.
Susan Boles (12:34):
So things that I have done to solve this problem,
purchased a course specific tomy camera to walk me through the
settings, worked with aconsultant to help me set it up,
and I ran out of time because Igot busy and bought a second
course to help me set it up. Iwatched some of the camera
(12:56):
specific content. And to behonest, I got overwhelmed. I
think I just need a simplercamera.
Cat Mulvihill (13:05):
So that is possible. I actually really like
the idea of what is sort of thisminimum viable method that is
going to work for me. It's notthat you are not capable of
figuring out this camera. Itmight be too much camera right
now. It's like when someone buysthe Cadillac of something the
first time they're starting anew hobby and then get, they
spend all the money on thefanciest thing.
Susan Boles (13:25):
I do that.
Cat Mulvihill (13:26):
That is very, very common because you have
this desire for quality. Now,when I hear you talking about
it, I think, yes, it's possiblethere's just not the right
camera for you, but also theremight be some mindset stuff. So
I think with tech, lot of peopleare worried that they can't
manage the thing that theybought. So this might be about
challenging it. And so a way tochallenge it might be to say,
(13:46):
okay, I'm going to allocate onehour, put it in your calendar,
and just say, I'm going to givemyself one hour to try these
settings because what happenswhen we imagine taking action on
the thing we've been avoiding,we can often tap into discomfort
that we feel of maybe I'm inover my head, Maybe this will
somehow prove that I'mincompetent or I'm not capable
(14:08):
of doing that, and those arevery strong feelings that we
don't want to experience, sowe'll stop ourselves from doing
it, and even if you say it outloud and logically you think
that's silly.
Of course, I can figure out acamera. We tend to try to reduce
it, but in actual fact, it'shaving an impact on us because
it's stopping us from takingaction. So being able to gently
push back on it, and that mightbe, I'm going to give myself a
(14:30):
chance. And if it works, great.If it doesn't work, maybe I try
something new.
But a lot of us aren't willingto try because we don't wanna
find out that we're bad or thatwe can't figure it out or feel
stupid. And those are legitimateconcerns that people have. But
if you had to learn a newlanguage or learn an instrument,
do you ever expect to be perfectthe first time?
Susan Boles (14:49):
Yes. I do. I'm an Enneagram three. I am perfect at
everything the first time.
Cat Mulvihill (14:53):
So the example would be, though, that for most
of us we realize that it's notgoing to be perfect the first
time out, but we want it. So itmakes total sense then. You say
you have this qualityexpectation and so you're afraid
that maybe I can't meet it, andby actually going through with
it, by finishing the course, byactually doing the thing, what
(15:13):
if I realize that I can't andI'm not capable? Now you have a
stack of experience from thepast of all these times where
you overcame things, you figuredthem out, and you were able to
make progress. Just that we'rekind of holding ourselves back.
Susan Boles (15:27):
What's interesting for me is that, like, there are
places where I'm totally finebeing a novice. Right? So, like,
digital technology, I will godown the rabbit hole, and I will
have the most fun figuring outnew digital technology. And this
is one where even though it istechnological, it's like
physical technology to me. And Ithink that's a whole different
(15:50):
bucket in my brain.
The part that I'm interested inis doing the content, not
getting to that point. It's beeninteresting for me because
normally, I'm actually excitedabout learning new things. And I
think this is because I'm notinterested in learning how to
set up a camera. It's somethingI have to do to do the part that
(16:11):
I am interested in learning,which is the actual video
production piece. I just want itto be done.
Cat Mulvihill (16:17):
I think there can be multiple layers to it,
though. I also believe we canstart to get comfortable with
not taking action, and thenstart to sort of back it up.
Sometimes we can protectourselves by not taking action
because we know exactly whywe're not getting the result we
want.
Susan Boles (16:33):
When I started the podcast, I was really interested
in the content and developing myinterview skills and how I,
like, craft crafted the episodesand, like, writing the scripts.
That part was reallyinteresting. And I was
completely uninterested inlearning how to edit the
podcast. It's all very, like,detailed. Yes.
(16:53):
And that's why I always workedwith an editor because it was
just one of those where this isjust something that's not
interesting to me. It doesn'twork in my like, how I like to
work and the type of work that Ilike to do. I'm so relieved that
I made that decision very earlyon and said, you know what? If
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonnafocus on getting good at the
piece that I'm interested in,and I'm going to let go of
(17:16):
learning the other piece becausethe part that I'm interested in
is hard enough. I feel the sameway about my camera settings.
I really just want the camera tobe set so I can just go do the
part that I'm interested in.It's much harder to solve that
problem when you live in a veryremote area in the mountains. I
can't just call somebody and belike, hey, can you come set up
(17:38):
my camera?
Cat Mulvihill (17:39):
It sounds a lot of, like, the reflection that
you're making is on that mode.When we ask about our
preferences, what we're good at,what we gravitate towards and
away from, is that you mightactually wanna write yourself a
permission slip of just sellingthe camera.
Susan Boles (17:54):
I think that's what I've come to two years after I
bought the damn thing. In termsof, like, my environmental work,
I need to be able to hit abutton Yes. And just record.
Cat Mulvihill (18:04):
So we can have a lot of pressure on ourselves.
And there is pressure in thecreator space, especially of
having the fancy gear and havingall of this stuff because to us
it exemplifies a level ofquality and how seriously we
take it, etc. But when youreflect on what is most
important and getting thecontent out there is the most
important thing, it doesn't haveto be perfectly polished And
there are actually greatexamples of people who do not
(18:26):
have fancy setups. And becausethe content is good, that's all
that you need. When it comes tocontent, my YouTube videos are
almost all one take.
And that to me, that's my mode.I know that this is the way for
me to have that natural fitwhere it feels sustainable. You
want a method and a mode thatwork together so that you can
imagine repeating it. And sowhen you have those together, a
good method with a mode thatworks with you, that's where
(18:48):
it's sustainable system. It'ssomething you can keep doing
over and over again.
Susan Boles (18:52):
That's for me, what I've come back to is I just
always have to be returning towhat works for me. I like your
bucket system because it doeswhat is blocking, what's the
challenge here. And I do thatweekly, actually, as part of my
review, but I tend not to do itin a big picture thing. At the
(19:12):
end of the week on Friday, whenI do my weekly reflection
process, I look at what tasksdid I schedule for this week
that didn't get done and try anddeconstruct why didn't this get
done. Is it something that Ididn't know how to do, something
I wasn't interested in doing,something that I honestly just
got too busy and didn't havetime to tackle?
But I've never really done it ona more big picture scale, which
(19:35):
I think this is a really goodapproach for.
Cat Mulvihill (19:39):
I think those reflections are so important.
And the other thing withstarting with method is really
nice because there might be somesmall tweaks we could make that
will actually empower us to takethe action. So if we look at the
example that you just shared ofeach week looking back, what
didn't work? And something Iexperienced recently is just
changing the language that I usefor the task or the action I
(20:00):
have to take can be reallypowerful. And in an example, I
would put something in my dailycalendar of just workout and I
would just skip it.
But I knew it was important tome. And so I started to change
language. So at the start of theyear, I'm a Peloton member and
they have this one hundred daystreak challenge. So I decided
instead of just saying do aworkout or something like that,
(20:23):
I said keep your one hundred daystreak going. That's the actual
language I see when it comes upin front of me.
That's a way of changing themethod because I am making a
slight switch to how I phrasesomething. And that is tapping
into me in a way that works. Sothen it started working. So when
you're looking at your tasks ofthe week, if you keep pushing it
back, looking at the time of daythat you're expecting yourself
(20:45):
to do it or when you hadscheduled it, the clarity that
you use or how you actually talkabout the thing you have to do,
sometimes even making some ofthose tweaks to the method can
really help. And then if youkeep on neglecting to do those
things, I think then it's worthlooking at mode and how do I
like to work.
And then finally, if I keep onnot doing certain tasks each
week when I look at that list,is there some sort of fear? Is
(21:07):
there something I'm avoiding?And I need to adjust my mindset.
Susan Boles (21:11):
I think the other piece I would add is that
oftentimes when I'm not doingsomething, it's because I say
it's important, but it's notactually important to me. It's
something I feel like I shouldbe doing. So trying to really
dig deeply into the why is thisimportant to me to try and
(21:34):
evaluate, is it actuallyimportant to me? For example,
we've been talking about settingup my studio. Yes.
It's important to me, but it'snot as important to me as all of
the other things on my list.
Cat Mulvihill (21:50):
Yeah. Mindset is two parts. So mindset is why?
Why do I care? Why does thismatter to me?
So it's that looking forward.It's that vision. It's that
target we have, and that's thefuel. That's the thing that's
going to actually get us intoaction. If we don't care, well
why would we put any effort intoit anyway?
But the missing part in a lot oftraditional advice in my opinion
(22:12):
is that they only focus on thewhy and they don't focus on the
why not, and that is where wecan tap into why am I holding
myself back from doing it, andthat's where we get into the
fear, this dreaded image, thisdreaded identity of the person
we don't want to be. And so whenwe can look at both, what's my
why? Do I have one? Is itstrong? Because if it's really
not strong then we're justdragging this expectation along
(22:35):
with us and it's really doing usno good, but if it is a strong
why, but we're stuck, it'salways worth asking, what am I
afraid is going to happen if Istart committing time to this?
Susan Boles (22:51):
So how are you taking this big conceptual
framework and applying it on thetactical level?
Cat Mulvihill (23:01):
I know a lot of service based entrepreneurs or
many entrepreneurs who just say,I know I need systems, and they
are going to help with mybusiness. They have a very
strong why for the systems.There is no shortage of reasons
why I should design systems, butthey're not doing it. And that
is so, so common. So if we takethat example of I know I should
have systems, but I'm not doingit, this is the type of thing
(23:23):
where anytime you feel stuck onsomething that genuinely matters
to you and you just can't seemto get traction, either you're
totally frozen or you kind ofstart stop.
So if we take that example of Iwant to build a system. This is
where I think there's an exampleof the method is asking what
information or skills, what'sthe gap? And for many people,
(23:45):
it's a daunting task of what isthe right system? And you might
need to break it up. The method,there might be two parts where
you have to do a little bit ofresearch.
So maybe giving yourself a timeframe and saying, Okay, over the
next two weeks, I'm going tocommit a couple of hours a week
to doing some research, reachingout to an expert. Maybe it's
taking a course and also giveyourself a hard stop. But then
(24:06):
there's also the, Okay, I needto construct the system. And
that's the other place where alot of people, maybe they have
actually done the research, theyalready know the system that
they should be building. Theymight have ideas of how to do
it, but they're not doing it.
And so you need to have thatimplementation. So it's a
combination of, do you have theskills? Do you have the
information? But also when is ithappening? When are you building
(24:28):
your systems?
And where are you doing that? Soare you setting aside maybe one
hour every morning over the nexttwo weeks? Or are you setting
aside a day? Maybe you'reprotecting a Friday. Actually,
being so clear on theimplementation that there is no
confusion when it's time towork, you actually know what
you're doing.
And so that's part of the methodis do I have all the information
(24:49):
I need? Am I able to do this? DoI have the skills? And when is
it happening? Where is ithappening?
And what are the tools that Ineed in order to implement this?
So it's having that plan and itneeds to be clear and hopefully
not overly complicated. I thinkwe have a tendency to
overcomplicate things because wewant the most sophisticated
system when in reality just whatis enough for us to make forward
(25:11):
progress. Then when it comes tomode, this is the example of
what is going to work for me. Sowhen it comes to systems, that's
both a combination of, from animplementation standpoint, does
it work better for me to sit ona call with Susan and work
through exactly what has tohappen or actually do an
implementation call?
(25:31):
So mode is really how will thisfit me? How will this work? Even
things like how am I capturinginformation? So if I'm setting
up as part of my system, I wantto capture some standard
operating procedures. Are yousomeone where it's just so much
easier for you to just record ascreen recording with your
microphone and walk through whatyou're doing?
Or are you someone who's moremethodical and wants to sit down
(25:52):
and write step by stepinstructions of how you would do
it? So there are lots ofdifferent ways to approach it,
and there's not one perfect waynecessarily. I do think when it
comes to mode, though, you haveto consider some constraints.
You might be on a team where youhave to do certain things. So
then you can just start to say,is there a way that I can make
this feel a little bit more funor enjoyable for me to actually
(26:14):
get through this?
And then when it comes tomindset, there are a lot of
people who are nervous aboutimplementing a system because
what if they choose the wrongsystem? What if they invest all
this time into setting up asystem and nobody uses it? And I
start to feel like maybe I'm notcut out for this or maybe I'm in
over my head or maybe thisbusiness isn't what I thought I
was. It's like we're almost likewe're afraid to start going
(26:36):
through the business because wedon't necessarily want to
confront what we're going tofind. So it's just easier to not
go there.
Susan Boles (26:44):
Yeah. Every entrepreneur I've ever talked
to, for the most part, pointstowards their therapist as the
best investment in theirbusiness. Because there's so
much head trash that we allcarry around with us that really
does prevent us from movingforward or even doing something
that is seemingly simple, likesetting up a system. But if it
was actually that simple, Iwould not be a mistress.
Cat Mulvihill (27:07):
Exactly. Even if we go back to the start with
implementation. So I know thatboth you and I have worked with
people to set up systems before.And in my case, when we would
sit down together, we would gothrough what changes have to be
made. We would talk about it.
We even start making changes,but then the actual follow
through. There's the stuff youget done on the call and then
there's the homework and thenthe next time you get on a call
(27:28):
none of the homework's done. Andpart of that is as simple as
there was no dedicated time whenit was going to happen, how you
were going to get it done, andso when it came time to actually
do the homework, they're notdoing the homework, and often
that is a failure of I'll find atime. It's too vague, and so you
really need to go back to do youactually have a plan that's
complete and that's clear enoughso that you know what you're
(27:50):
working on when it's time to dothe work?
Susan Boles (27:52):
So I am curious how this can work and stay flexible.
For example, those of us withchronic illnesses don't
necessarily have access toenergy at the time we think
we're going to have energy. It'ssuper unpredictable. So if we're
(28:14):
looking at creating a plan andwe want the plan to be detailed
enough, enough, but it stillneeds to stay flexible enough to
be able to be responsive to whenand how we have energy.
Likewise, if you're a parent,your kid gets sick and throws
off your whole week.
How do you approach the planningphase where it's detailed enough
(28:36):
but still flexible enough to beresponsive?
Cat Mulvihill (28:40):
I mean, the beauty of it is that it's
personalized. So one person'smethod could look different than
another person's method or theycould look similar. And so the
beauty of it is that it'scustomized to your context and
to what is going to work foryou. I can't prescribe a method
to someone. I actually wantpeople to do some research and
to, based on your context andyour goals and what you want,
(29:03):
what are the things you have todo?
What sort of that minimum viablemethod that's going to move you
forward? You want it to besimple enough, but not so simple
that it's incomplete or thatthings are missing. So you do
want to still have some of thosethings like the implementation.
When is it happening? Becausesomething can happen at any time
often happens at no time.
So for me, setting somethingtowards a day I think I can do
(29:27):
it is a really good way thatthat works for me. I might say,
Okay, I'm recording on Wednesdayafternoon. That doesn't feel
super restrictive to me, and Ialso know that if I had to move
it, I can. We also go throughseasons of our lives. Sometimes
you might need a simpler methodto get you through a really
tough season where you maybedon't have the capacity that you
normally have.
If you have health complicationsyou need to consider, those need
(29:49):
to be factored into your methodand so you as an individual
knows what's best for you. Youcan look outside for inspiration
from other people on what's themethod that will help me drive
this forward, but ultimately youhave to decide what is going to
work for you. So let's use ahealth example. When I learned
in the last year, so it's not aformal diagnosis, but suspected
(30:10):
diagnosis on the hypermobilityspectrum disorder causes a ton
of chronic pain and issues,joint stability. Spent twenty
five years in physiotherapy andchiropractor and all that stuff.
And I didn't know until thispast year that that was even a
thing. I knew I was hypermobile.I had no idea, though, the
impact it can have on all sortsof aspects of your life. When it
(30:31):
comes to health, my method wastraditional strength training,
but it would always land me backin physio. It would always land
me with injuries.
Once I actually had moreinformation about me and how I'm
wired, I was able to go back tothe drawing board and say, I got
to change methods. I need adifferent method that's still
effective, that is going to helpme with my health and my fitness
and my strength, that isn'tgoing to land me with injury.
(30:53):
So, for example, Pilates canwork really well for me. It's a
different method that is basedon what I know about myself. So
when it comes to business, thereare multiple ways to run your
business.
There are multiple ways tomanage your time, multiple ways
to set up systems. So maybesomeone with chronic health
problems needs more margin.Maybe if you are kind of
overcapacity, peel things back.You also probably have to tap
(31:16):
into some mindset work on ourmethod. Maybe we're expecting
too much from ourselves.
And so we have to right size ourexpectations. So and I would say
it's also dynamic. Dynamic. It'snot like you just do this once
and say, is my method, this ismy mode, this is my mindset.
Because we keep changing, ourexperiences change, our context
changes, and so we have to beable to go back and say, okay,
(31:37):
can I make some adjustmentswhere I still have a complete
method but maybe it looks alittle different?
Susan Boles (31:52):
What is your own favorite way to make your work
calmer?
Cat Mulvihill (31:57):
It's funny that you say that because I have a
propensity to fall into thesetraps over and over, and an
example this year is that I havehad some uncertainty in my
personal life. And so I havewanted to go full force because
I have this new framework andI'm so excited to talk about it
and I want everything to bedone. And then I recognize,
(32:18):
woah, woah, woah, you areexpecting way too much right
now. There's some uncertainty,and you cannot predict
everything that's going tohappen. So this is a season of
my life where I had to slow thepace down.
And so I did that. But then Istart to ramp up again. And then
I'll delay a project and say,oh, I can breathe. It feels
good. It feels aligned.
And then once I have that freetime, I say, okay, now I need to
(32:39):
jam all this free time. So I'mconstantly doing this back and
forth. And so something thatreally well for me is journaling
every morning. But the whatworks for me to be sustainable,
it's only one page. I do nothave to write more than one
page, and in fact, I try to justcontain it to one page.
I can do that in a normal amountof time, usually while I'm
drinking coffee, and that willoften help me right size because
(33:02):
I can start to tell if thingsare starting to get away for me,
and it can pull me back. It's ait's a work in progress.
Susan Boles (33:09):
You know, one of the reasons I like to use the
word calmer instead of the wordcalm is because it is. It's
always a work in progress.Nothing is ever gonna be ideally
perfectly calm. It's an ethos toalways strive to be getting just
a little bit just take tinyactions a little bit calmer, but
(33:29):
being realistic about the factthat nothing is ever going to be
calm.
Cat Mulvihill (33:33):
We live in a world Exactly.
Susan Boles (33:34):
Humans and chaos, and stuff is gonna happen.
Approaching it as somethingexperimental or iterative. The
more you learn about yourself,the better you are going to be
able to find the right method,the right mode, the right
mindset.
Cat Mulvihill (33:49):
I actually love that you said that because there
are a couple of things. One isthat it's really important to
understand that no matter whichone you're working on, each one
requires that you take someaction. You will not know if it
works until you try it. So ifyou make a change to your
method, try it. Does that work?
Then you can make a tweak. Ifyou're making a change to your
(34:09):
mode, you have to actually tryit. So maybe you're switching up
the time of day, You have to tryit in order to know if it works.
And same with mindset, in orderto push back and challenge a
belief that might be keeping usstuck, you have to take action
and pay attention what happenswhen I take action, even though
I feel a little bit afraid ofsomething happening. All of them
require action.
And as you mentioned, we canoften wait. We want it to be
(34:31):
perfect. So we have to work onour mindset around taking
imperfect action. Just haveenough information to start
moving forward, make enough of achange because they will never
be perfect before you getstarted. So we need to push back
on that belief.
I also, I think the other thingthat I really want to stress is
that it can be extremelyoverwhelming if I say it's
(34:52):
completely personal, you canfigure out your own method. I
just want to follow exactly whatto do. However, I think that
sometimes we are, we don't trustourselves enough. And so I think
if you can tap in and trustyourself, that you can figure
out what works for you. You canbe inspired by other people.
You can take ideas from otherpeople, but your context is
(35:12):
different, how you're wired isdifferent, all of that. Look for
that inspiration, but lookinward for guidance because
ultimately we're going to knowwhat is going to suit us, what
is going to fit us. And as wetake action and experiment with
things, we can make those coursecorrections and those
adjustments.
Susan Boles (35:28):
Yeah, I love that. That's how it's worked is
finding people who thinksimilarly, their brain works
similarly, they have similarsituations, maybe they're a
parent, maybe they're alsochronically ill. Everybody has
all of these overlappingidentities and ways that you
interact in the world. And so,you know, a 25 year old cis het
(35:52):
white dude with a spouse whodoes everything and no kids, his
productivity advice is not gonnawork for me. It's just gonna
make me angry.
We don't all have the sametwenty four hours and we're not
all coming into the world in thesame And so being able to look
to examples of folks who aredealing with the same challenges
(36:14):
and see how they might approachthis and getting a variety of
different ideas to be able topick and choose from. That was
the point behind starting thispodcast was just to give myself
ideas of ways that people aregoing about the world and their
business to be able to pick andchoose what might work for me or
(36:34):
what might work for somebodyelse.
Cat Mulvihill (36:36):
And I think you could also look to your past
because there is a very goodchance that you have stumbled
upon something that works foryou in one area of your life
that could translate into otherareas of your life. So I wish I
was not a person who neededaccountability. I wish it there
were times where I just so badlywanted to be a person who could
(36:56):
just say, I'm going to do thething and do the thing and to
the point where I was justcausing struggle. So now that
I've embraced it and I realizethat the times when I have maybe
been the most consistent or mostsuccessful is often when I have
some form of accountability. Andthat can look totally different.
Sometimes it's actually hiringsomeone as, say, a trainer or
something. But it can also looklike I've been using the
(37:17):
Reminders app that has recurringreminders and I'm playing with
the language so that when I seethat reminder, like, keep your
streak going. It's just theselittle things that we can do.
And if you learn from otherareas of your life, how can I
implement that into this newproject or goal or habit that
I'm trying to develop? What do Ialready know about myself?
Because odds are you've actuallylearned some really valuable
information about how you'rewired, how you work, what works,
(37:40):
and you can also translate that.
Susan Boles (37:41):
Yeah. As somebody who cannot do accountability,
like accountability in no wayworks for me, and I am deviant
avoidance. But it took me areally long time to realize
that. Like, at one point in mybusiness, I actually hired
essentially an accountabilityservice where like you have a
call at the beginning of theweek and you tell them what
(38:03):
you're gonna do. And then at theend of the week, they call to
check and make sure that you didthose things.
And I would specifically not doany of the things that I told
them I was doing at thebeginning of the week and then
lie to them about having donethose things at the end of the
week. I got a lot of thingsdone, just never the things that
I said I was gonna do. I didn'tlast
Cat Mulvihill (38:23):
very But
Susan Boles (38:24):
as kind of a counterpoint example, really
paying attention to, is thissomething that works for me? Or
is this something that'sactually almost
counterproductive?
Cat Mulvihill (38:34):
I call it the friction principle, but the idea
is anytime you experiencefriction. So if you see that
list and you suddenly you do notwant to do it, you want to do
anything but that, that is asign something needs to be
adjusted. So in your example,having an accountability partner
that just did not work. So thatfriction is a sign that you need
to investigate. So get curiousand say, what is going on?
(38:57):
Why am I doing this? And I thinkfriction can be so informative
because it's showing us thatsomething probably needs to
change.
Susan Boles (39:04):
Yep. And for me, I had to think about how do I
build more autonomy in all of myprocesses? I ended up instead of
having like really specificproject plans, I had to go to
basically a project vault of,like, here's a list of things I
would like to get done. I'mgonna do one of these things.
Which of these things feels likethe thing I would like to do
(39:26):
today?
Cat Mulvihill (39:27):
Yeah. Having that freedom. Most people who are
resistant to externalexpectations, as soon as someone
says to do it, you suddenlydon't want to do it. They tend
to value freedom. Now, one ofthe mindset things, to work on,
if you feel that doing theopposite of what someone expects
is actually not freedom either.
So true freedom is when you payattention to what you really
(39:50):
want, and you do it whether ornot someone else expects it of
you. So sometimes if it's justour gut instinct to resist and
rebel against what someoneexpects, I think it's worth
doing that little check of, oh,wait, I value freedom, but am I
actually feeling free? Or am Ijust being directed by doing the
opposite of what people expect?Because that's not actually
freedom. So I think that canalso be a helpful thing to
(40:12):
check-in with too.
Now for me, I also value freedomin a slightly different way
where I actually resiststructure. I don't want my week,
my day, my minute, my minute tofeel like it is overpowered just
outside my control. So I wantthat freedom and flexibility.
But when I have some structure,I actually have more freedom
(40:32):
because the absence of structureis chaos. If I don't have any
kind of structure, it's notfreedom either.
So for me, freedom means havingsome structure that I can play
with and have flexibility, butnot be complete wild wild west.
Okay. It was a real mindsetthing of what does freedom
actually look like.
Susan Boles (40:57):
There's something really powerful about naming
your friction. Not topathologize it, but to
understand it. That's what Ilove about CATS Momentum
Framework. It doesn't assumeyou're the problem. It invites
you to zoom in and ask what kindof stuck is this and what would
make movement feel easier.
(41:18):
That kind of clarity is thepower that helps us pull two key
levers from the calmerframework. The business design,
because when you can see whysomething isn't working, you can
start designing systems thatmove with your brain, not
against it. And the second leveris people and values because the
way you work should honor whoyou are. Your energy, your
(41:39):
fears, your rhythms. Progressdoesn't have to come from
pressure.
So if you're navigating frictionright now, whether that is in
your content, your systems, yourvisibility, your client
delivery, here's one tiny actionyou can take to start moving
towards calm. Just name yourstuckness. Bring one stalled out
(42:01):
task to mind and then ask, am Ifrozen because of mindset? Fear,
doubt, or uncertainty. Is this amethod gap?
Am I missing steps, or am Iunclear about the next move? Or
is it about mode? Do you havethe wrong context, the wrong
energy, or the wrong timing?Just naming it can shift
(42:24):
something. It gives youdirection, not just to act, but
to design from.
And that's the real win, forwardmotion that fits you. If you
want to know more about CAT orthe Momentum formula, you can
(42:44):
click the link in the shownotes. If this conversation
helped you rethink how youapproach momentum in your
business and you are ready todesign a business that actually
works with your brain, notagainst it, I have more where
this came from. Each week, Isend a newsletter focused on
tiny, actionable ways to build abusiness that supports your
energy, your goals, and yourmargins. Or if you're ready for
(43:07):
hands on support, you can checkout how we can work together at
beyondmargins.com.
Either way, I'll be right herehelping you solve for calm. One
KPI, one bottleneck, onebusiness at a time.
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