March 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Eliminate Sales Calls? Yes, Really.
What if your entire sales process could feel human, high-touch, and not require a single call?
This week on Calm is the New KPI, I’m joined by Becky Pierson Davidson, founder of Affinity Collective, a product strategy agency for community-driven businesses. Becky shares how she’s turned the traditional, time-consuming sales process on its head—closing $15K+ client engagements with zero sales calls.
Instead of long proposal timelines, back-to-back Zooms, and ghosted bookings, Becky uses a thoughtful, asynchronous process: pitch decks, Loom videos, and warm DMs. The result? A system that respects her time, delights clients, and converts beautifully.
We talk about:
- Why she ditched the “book a call” CTA after one too many no-shows
- How to build a sales process that mirrors your service delivery
- Creating personalized-but-repeatable Loom videos that sell for you
- Building referral relationships that actually work
- The key role productized services play in making async sales possible
Whether you're an introvert, hitting a capacity ceiling, or just curious about doing sales differently, this episode is a must-listen.
Learn More about Becky Pierson Davidson
- Affinity Collective Website
- Connect on Instagram or LinkedIn
- Subscribe to her newsletter for community-driven strategy insights
Learn More about Susan Boles
- BeyondMargins.com
- Check out the Services Guide
- Follow Susan on LinkedIn
✨ Want a sales process that works while you sleep?
We can design and implement your asynchronous sales system in a single-day intensive. Learn more at beyondmargins.com/services.
- (00:00) - Introduction: The Sales Call Dilemma
- (01:39) - Scaling a Client-Based Business
- (02:04) - Eliminating Sales Calls: Is It Possible?
- (03:16) - Guest Introduction: Becky Pearson Davidson
- (04:26) - Becky's Asynchronous Sales Process
- (11:11) - Building Trust and Customization
- (36:57) - Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susan Boles (00:05):
There you are, sitting in your Zoom room,
waiting for a sales lead to poponto the call. And you're
waiting and waiting and waiting,only to realize you've been
ghosted again. Or you look atyour calendar and you see that
you're in back to back to backsales calls for the next few
days, which is great. Everyoneloves a full pipeline. But when
(00:27):
are you supposed to actually doyour work?
Sales calls can take up a ton ofenergy, brain space, and actual
time. Time that you might needfor other parts of your business
or for your life. Handing offthe sales process to someone
else is one of the mostdifficult and should usually be
one of the last things todelegate. So you can't just fix
(00:49):
it by giving the process away tosomeone else. And sales calls
are necessary to run a clientbased business.
You have to do them in order toclose deals. Or do you? Welcome
to Calm is the New KPI, thepodcast where we challenge
default business advice andbreak down the levers you can
pull to create a calmer businessthat actually works for you. I'm
(01:12):
your host, Susan Bowles. Youprobably, like I do, work with
clients.
And when you're trying to grow aclient based business, you can
run into a capacity ceilingpretty darn quick. The default
business advice in thatsituation would be start a group
program or open a membership orsell a digital product. But what
if you don't want to? What ifyou love working with clients
(01:36):
and you want to keep workingwith clients? What do you do
then?
How do you scale a client basedfirm without ditching client
work? That's what we're geekingout about in this mini series.
And today we're looking at thesales process and eliminating
sales calls. I'm betting when Ijust said eliminate sales calls,
(01:56):
there was a part of you that wasinterested, excited even. And
then you probably immediatelythought that'll never work.
How are you going to close dealsif you don't talk to potential
clients? The default of the livesales call is pretty deeply
entrenched in our businessculture. That's the expected on
both the client side and on theprovider side. It's the way it's
(02:19):
always been done because we allkind of collectively believe
that you can't close sales onexpensive client engagements
without sales calls. The salesprocess has to be high touch,
highly personalized.
And the only way to do that iswith a live meeting. Now, this
is probably a holdover from likethe old school agency days where
you had to wine and dine aclient to close a deal. But
(02:42):
traditional live sales calls canbe really time consuming. And if
you're bumping up against acapacity ceiling, maybe sales
calls are the thing to cut or atleast minimize. Now, the idea of
not having a sales call beforeyou buy is an idea we're pretty
comfortable with when it comesto buying products, digital or
otherwise.
Maybe you're okay with it whenit comes to joining community or
(03:04):
group program. But when it comesto client based services, it's
kind of hard to imagine how thatmight work because that sales
call default is so deeplyingrained. Except that's exactly
what my guest today is doing.Becky Pearson Davidson is a
community builder, creator,educator, and founder of
(03:25):
Affinity Collective, which is aproduct strategy agency that
works with community drivenfounders. And she's taking us
behind the scenes of her hightouch personalized sales process
that happens almost entirelywithout sales calls.
Now, if you haven't listened tothe episode with Kendall Cherry,
it's a few episodes back in thefeed. Kendall also talks about
(03:46):
developing an asynchronous salesprocess for her client services
as part of our discussion aroundher calm KPI. Now I highly
recommend that if this wholeasynchronous sales process is a
topic that you're interested in,go check out that episode first
and then come back. These twoepisodes together can be kind of
a part one and part two. So Irecommend checking that out
(04:07):
first.
We're gonna take a quick breakto hear from our sponsors, and
then we'll get into the detailsof Becky's strategy, how her
system works, and all theresources that she built to
basically eliminate her salescalls. All right Becky, so you
(04:28):
are doing a lot of the sales inyour business without any actual
sales calls. So you're doingthem in DMs or emails or other
places, often with a Loom videoor a voice note. And for a lot
of us who work with clients,that might seem a little
blasphemous, a littleuncomfortable maybe. So tell me
(04:50):
a little bit about what it wasthat led you to experiment with
having your sales process be alittle bit more asynchronous
instead of something liketraditional calls, traditional,
you know, meetings.
Becky Pierson Davidson (05:01):
Yeah. The main call to action on my
website used to be schedule acall with me. And I had, like, a
couple no shows in a row. And Iknow that there's lots of ways
you can combat this, like, sendreminders, like, whatever. But I
was so pissed one day, and Iwrote on LinkedIn and I was
like, I'm done doing salescalls.
And just everybody was like,well, have you tried this or
(05:23):
that? I'm like, no. I'm gonnatry Loom videos. And so I think
the catalyst was that I wasangry. I also don't love being
on calls.
Like, I'm really protective ofmy calendar and have a lot of
days with no calls at all. Andso even though I'm running an
agency, even though I have a lotof clients, I'm really careful
about, like, how many calls Itake, and I have a strong
(05:44):
boundary there. So I've tried tofigure out, like, how
Susan Boles (05:47):
to how can I avoid these as much as possible? So
take me through kind of theexperimentation of what the
process started as and theevolution of, like, what does it
look like now for you?
Becky Pierson Davidson (06:04):
I always would think about price point as
kind of, like, my testingground. So it was easy for me to
start with my audits. So I dothese membership audits, product
audits, where I'll go in and,like, review somebody's
membership review somebody'smembership or their program and
give them feedback. And it's anasynchronous product, so I'm
also setting up the expectationthat they're gonna get Loom
(06:25):
videos from me. So I thought itwas a really good one to start
with.
So I started by essentiallyhaving a sales page on my
website for audits. I would talkabout audits. And honestly, most
people that buy audits DM melike, hey. Do you give feedback
on memberships? And I'm like,yeah.
I do. And then I send over a PDFand a Loom video, which is me
(06:46):
talking over the same PDF, andit started working. Like, people
were like, great. Send me aninvoice. And I was like, hell
yeah.
No sales call needed. So thatwas kind of where it started.
But now it's gotten to the pointwhere I've sold 15 grand
engagements via a Loom video,which is amazing.
Susan Boles (07:06):
I love that. And I I am a big fan of having the
sales and on boarding processreally reflect what it feels
like to work with you. If you'rea coach where, you know, your
entire engagement is face toface calls, your sales process
should probably have a face toface call. Likewise, I love the
fact that the product isasynchronous, and the sales
(07:29):
process helps set them up tounderstand what that kind of
engagement could look like.Yeah.
It's an asynchronous processwhere I make them a Notion page
that has Loom videos embedded innotes, and they have
Becky Pierson Davidson (07:41):
a Slack channel with me for thirty days
for implementation. And they getone call they can book because I
just realized that it wasneeded. And so there is one call
in this service, but it comeslater. So in the Loom video
where I'm talking about, here'sthe process, this is what audit
looks like, it's it's a shortvideo, I do a teeny bit of
(08:01):
education so they see the vibe.And then I'll say, like, you're
gonna get Loom videos just likethis one where I'm giving you
feedback directly on yourmembership, but I'm also giving
you micro trainings that arecustomized to you.
They're getting a little tasteof it in the sales process.
Yeah.
Susan Boles (08:17):
I love that. So take me kind of end to end
through, like, what a typicalsales process with a client
looks like for you now.
Becky Pierson Davidson (08:26):
I wish there was, like, one very, very
clear typical, but there's,like, a point at which they all
converge. So I'll give you acouple examples. So Ideal World,
and this does happen for some ofthem, they come through our
Affinity Collective website,which is the name of my agency.
So they go to the contact page,they fill out a form, they're
selecting which service they'remost interested in, and then
(08:48):
they are submitting their form,and I immediately get a Slack
message. So we have a Slackchannel that's, like, called
leads.
And I don't have something superformal just yet. Like, I'm not
doing a great job trackingleads, but I have my Slack
channel, and that works for meright now. So I get a Slack
message. Message. I see it.
I see what they're interestedin. I read the responses, and
(09:09):
I'm like, okay. I know that I'mgonna pitch this person an audit
or I'm gonna show them a couplepackages, maybe, like, audit
versus audit plus consulting.And so I have this Canva deck
that is everything, and Iduplicate it, I cut it down, and
then I record them something ifit needs to be custom or bespoke
based on their message to me.But a lot of times, if they're
(09:33):
like, I'm looking for an auditand their answers are really
short, I just send my cannedone, which is like a deck that's
an audit and then a a video.
And so it's like, all I need todo is just email that over.
Afterwards, they usually replywith questions or most of time,
they're like, great. Send me aninvoice if they wanna go
forward, which is excellent. Andthat works the best with the
(09:53):
audits. My other service that'slike, I would say the next level
up is a strategy sprint whereit's an eight week process.
We're doing a ton of research.They have two options. We do it
all for them or done with youwhere we're giving them
templates and resources. Sothere's really crazy different
price point. And so I send themthis same thing, this pitch deck
(10:14):
with a video.
That one, I actually pretty muchalways keep the same. I don't
really customize that one. Andthen there's usually some back
and forth. I would say 80% ofthe time, I don't have to get on
a sales call. Sometimes whenthey wanna choose the larger
package, they wanna bring in ateam member to, like, talk
through it or something.
And so I do get on a sales callat that point, but most of the
time, it goes back and forth viaemail.
Susan Boles (10:35):
So I think in order to really effectively do a
asynchronous sales process, whatI'm hearing here is it's really
a different communication style.So did you find that you had to
tweak how you were communicatingor what kind of information you
included as part of the pitchdeck or the video? Did you try
(10:59):
this just written? Try it with avideo? Like, how did the process
evolve so that you can build thesame kind of trust that people
are believing that they'rebuilding in a regular sales
call.
Becky Pierson Davidson (11:11):
When it comes to trust, I think there's
something to be said for thefact that I'm building community
and I'm writing online and I'mbuilding trust on these, like,
discovery platforms. And so whenI say, like, I'll sell in a DM
because the other route, theyeither come through the website
or I'll get a direct message,usually on Instagram, sometimes
LinkedIn, where somebody's like,hey. Do you do audits? They're
(11:34):
replying to, like, my storyabout something random. And
they're like, hey.
Do you do membership audits? AndI'm like, yeah. I do. Here's the
deal. And I usually, like, sendover a voice note, and that's
usually custom.
Like, I I just record a voicenote, send it, and then they
sometimes sell directly inthere. Other times, they're
like, oh, I'd love moreinformation on this. I'm like,
(11:55):
great. What's your email? I'llemail you over something.
And that's when I send the PDFand the WHIM video that is,
again, canned. Most of the time,I'm sending something that I
recorded once, but there is thisnurture happening via, like,
back and forth DMs or, like,beforehand. So I am building
trust with them, but it's justnot on a call. It's kind
Susan Boles (12:16):
of a little bit of a mind shift for people who are
in, you know, very traditionalagencies where we are expecting,
you know, a fancy pitch deck orexpecting a call where you're,
like, laying out all of thesebeautiful things that you could
possibly do. And so I think itdoes take a little bit of a
mindset shift to think about howcould this look Mhmm. Where you
(12:40):
still deliver all of the sameinformation, the same human
touch, but just not necessarilyone to one. You're still
delivering a very human processthat feels customized to them,
but from your perspective isnot. So when you were thinking
(13:01):
about recording the video thatyou are sending out to people,
how did you think aboutstructuring the information in
there so that it could be morebroadly applicable but still
feel really human?
I think part of it is my stylewhen I talk on a video is just I
just pretend.
Becky Pierson Davidson (13:21):
I, like, literally picture my friend on
the other side. And it's sofunny because I get feedback. I
did, like, a campaign to getnewsletter testimonials
recently, and every single oneof them was like, I feel like
I'm learning from my smartfriend. And I'm like, perfect.
Like, that's the energy I'mgoing for.
And so when I speak on this,like, Loom video, I'm like, hey.
I'm really excited to tell youabout this what I think will be
(13:45):
a great service for you. Basedon what you shared with me, I
think a strategy sprint is greatfor you. And so let me tell you
a little bit about how it worksand what you're gonna get out of
it and how it's gonna impactyour business. And so I go
through it.
And so there's, like, a nudgeto, like, the conversation that
we had even though everybodysees it. I feel like I'm I'm I
(14:05):
feel like I'm being sketchy, butI'm not.
Susan Boles (14:08):
No. It's not. Like, that's actually one of my
favorite parts when I am talkingabout, like, doing things really
efficiently or delivering thingsefficiently, I think it's really
important to do that in a waythat still feels very high touch
and still feels very human tohuman connection. Connection. So
(14:29):
to me, it doesn't feel sketchy.
It feels like you areestablishing a connection. And
for those of us who have doneclient services for a long time,
at least in my experience andwith the experience of my
clients, everybody thinks theyhave a very special unique
situation. Mhmm. Very few peopleactually do. Yes.
Most people have the sameproblem. And for them, it's
(14:50):
unique. For the people who solvethat problem, it's the same
problem over and over and overagain that we are solving as
consultants.
Becky Pierson Davidson (14:59):
Yeah. And sometimes I'll add, like, a
a little bit of a custom messagein the email body, but it's not
long. It's like a couplesentences where I'm like, in
most cases, I've, like, heard ofthem or know them or they're
like, this person mentioned you.You know? So, like, personal
touch in the email.
But, yeah, that repeatable salesprocess of just, like, adding in
the PDF and the Loom video hassaved me so much time, and it
(15:21):
works. Like, it converts reallywell. Yeah.
Susan Boles (15:24):
I love that it is both efficient and human. Mhmm.
And it saves you a lot of time,but it feels very high touch to
the people who are receivingthat video. Yeah. So talk to me
a little bit about as you wereevolving this process, were
there places where you triedpieces of this and it didn't
(15:48):
work, places where people tendto get tripped up that you had
to either rerecord the video toinclude more information.
Or you tried it, and it worked,and it's been pretty good ever
since.
Becky Pierson Davidson (15:59):
I tried it with just the PDFs at the
beginning, and then I startedadding in the Loom video, and
then it did better. So there'sstill on occasion like, if I've
talked to somebody or I knowsomebody, I don't even send the
video. I just send over the PDF.And I wouldn't say it's, like,
we're so dialed and locked inthat it's always, like, this
exact same process every time,and I'm measuring it really
(16:21):
well. So I just wanna caveatwith that.
I try to gauge. Do clientsgenerally know what their
problem is or not? A lot oftimes, they think they need an
audit, but they actually need aresearch project. And so I have
to do a little bit of education.And so I'll kind of, like,
usually make a custom video forthose scenarios or offer a call
if I feel like it's worth it.
Susan Boles (16:42):
And how are you sussing that out? Like, how are
you figuring out that they don'tnecessarily know what they need.
Becky Pierson Davidson (16:50):
It's in the email they send me, like,
the form they fill out or theirDMs to me. Or I look at their
offers, and I'm like, oh, no.They're all over the place.
Especially people that have areoffering, like, 20 different
things, and I just see a lot ofchaos happening. Right?
I'm like, okay. We we need tostart with, like, streamlining
your offer suite. I stalk them alittle bit, and then I decide if
(17:11):
they're know what they'relooking for or not. But it's
also painfully obvious whenpeople are really super clear to
me in in the things that I offerif they're, like, really clear
on what they need. If they'relike, hey.
I know I wanna launch amembership, and we have these
other things that are doingwell. I'm not sure how to, like,
transition over to this. I'mlike, great.
Susan Boles (17:28):
I know exactly what to send them. That makes sense.
Speaking of emailing, what doesyour follow-up process look like
here? Is that an a considerationin your process at all or
because of the nature of whatyou're selling and, like, the
productization, people eithersign on or they don't? Like, how
(17:49):
long does the sales processnormally take?
Becky Pierson Davidson (17:52):
Oh, man. Sometimes it ranges everything
from, like, one hour to, like,six months. Sometimes people
will DM me. I'll I'll tell themthe details, they're like,
great. Let's start.
Like, when can you start? AndI'm like, away. And they're
like, great. And then we start.I would say in most cases, it is
like that, but that's with mysmaller creator clients.
The larger engagements isdefinitely a longer process.
(18:15):
Those usually were going backand forth for at least a couple
weeks. But, again, sometimes I'mtalking to people and then a
couple months later, they'reready. And so my process for
follow-up is to follow-up every,you know, week or two weeks or
just check-in and see, like,hey. How's it going?
I haven't heard from you. Idon't have, like, a super
streamlined process. I just kindof go off vibes. I feel it out.
(18:38):
Like, feel them out.
Susan Boles (18:39):
Because I'm like, I don't I don't think there's a
wrong answer. I'm just alwayscurious because some people have
very, very structured, like,follow-up processes. And it
seems more likely if you havevery productized services and a
very streamlined sales process,that follow-up process might be
more structured. But, like, II'm like you. I'll just
follow-up every once in while.
I'll be like, yo. How arethings? Yeah. What's happening?
(19:02):
Are you still interested?
Are you a no? Like, what'swhat's going on?
Becky Pierson Davidson (19:06):
Yeah. Exactly. I think there's
something to be said for whilethis is so systematized, it's
also so human. Like, I get thevibe of where they're at.
There's people like, the peoplethat are super clear, I will
follow-up very quickly becauseI'm like, let's go.
Like, you're clear. Let's jumpon it. The people that are,
like, don't know what they need,they're reaching out because
they're like, somebody told memy community needs help and,
(19:28):
like, ugh. You know, they're,like, anxious. I'm just like,
hey.
Just, like, thinking of you, sawthis article. You know, just,
like, little nudges like afriend versus Mhmm. Hey. Let's
get started. You said you wereready.
So for me, the follow-up processis not something I will I will
probably systematize.
Susan Boles (19:45):
Yeah. I mean, that sounds very on the brand for you
given that you're, you know,you're all about communities and
the community experience. And Iimagine that reflects inside
kind of all of the pieces ofyour client experience because
that's such a focus for you andyour work. Are there key things
(20:07):
or key places where you areconsciously either systematizing
or not systematizing to makewhat you're doing with a client
feel personal, feel engaging, toreflect on that human process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (20:24):
Yeah. Let's talk about the audit, for
example. So the audit itself, Ihave a Notion template, and I
have a checklist and, like, anSOP for it. So it's very
systematized, the execution ofthat project. But then when I go
to record the videos, becauseevery client gets custom videos
as part of their audit, they'resuper personal because I'm like,
(20:46):
hey.
Like, I just did one the otherday, and she's killing it. Like,
her her membership is reallygood, and the feedback I gave
her will definitely help take itto the next level, but she's
already doing a lot of thingsreally well. And people like to
hear that they're doing reallywell. So I did this opening
video where I'm like, you arecrushing it. Here's what you're
doing.
Amazing. And, like, because ofher and her personality, just,
like, chatting with her online,and I've never done a call with
(21:08):
her, I, like, just wanted tokeep things casual with her and
just and also, like, I got thevibe that getting some positive
feedback was gonna feel reallygood. So I gave her that. And
then with current clients andpast clients, I'm always, like,
messaging with them on Instagramespecially, just, like, replying
to their stuff and being like,this is great. Like, so excited
(21:30):
to see you doing this.
And that's, like, a definitely,like, a nurture strategy for
them to come back and work withme again, but it's also just
being really, like, communitydriven, and that is always what
I come back to. And so theexperience itself is, like, my
process is super repeatable. Ihave SOPs. I have, like,
templates I'm using. I'mproviding my clients with, like,
(21:51):
onboarding email templates, forexample.
But how I tell them to apply it,like, I'm DMing them like a
friend or I'm voice noting themlike a friend. Like, hey. I sent
you this. I want you to thinkabout x, y, and z. Like, blah
blah blah blah.
Susan Boles (22:03):
I think there is a real need for the way that we
are operating in business and asconsultants and as clients to be
more human. I think Yeah. We saythat we're all business owners
and we feel like we need to besuper professional about it. But
I actually think the bestexperiences are ones that are
(22:26):
friendly, that are casual, thatfeel like you are DMing with a
friend about a problem thatyou're having. And I think we
can deliver really good servicesand still be human beings about
it.
Becky Pierson Davidson (22:39):
Yeah. That's, like, my motto. I'm
like, business is all abouthuman to human right now. For
me, like, launching my agencywas important because I wanted
to not have to executeeverything. And because I'm
building personal brand andbuilding, like, community around
me, people wanna work with me.
And so that's why I made thatdecision is to, like, hey. Work
(22:59):
with my agency, but I'm stillconnecting with people. But I do
have people that are helping mewith my projects. And so that's
been a really nice shift, butit's, like, definitely part
Susan Boles (23:09):
of our ethos is, like, treat clients like they're
your buds. So we've kind oftouched on this a little bit
about productizing services andhow that is a really important
first step before you can tryand do an asynchronous sales
process. Yeah. Which makes a lotof sense because if you're doing
a custom project every time, youreally can't standardize a sales
(23:32):
process to be as streamlined asyou have it. You could certainly
do custom pitches this way.
But how do you think about theway you've structured your
services as being a keycomponent in the asynchronous
sales process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (23:48):
So first of all, I read the book Built to
Sell. It's a fiction book, butit's about a guy who builds a
branding agency. And,essentially, the takeaway that I
had from that book was, like, Ineed to productize one service
and do it really well. So highlyrecommend Built to Sell. I
started experimenting with justdifferent productized offers,
(24:11):
and so I essentially have twothat are super productized.
One is the audit. One is thesprint. And now we're
experimenting with a third,which is setting up people's
circle builds. So we're, like,building out SOPs, and that's,
like, in beta right now. So,definitely, we'll be selling
those asynchronous.
Like, we're gonna start testingthat. I think productizing is
important because that's whatallows you to have this one
(24:33):
pitch deck and this one videothat you can make work for
everyone. I still think withcustom projects, though, if you
have enough information, you cancustomize the deck a little bit
and still make a custom Loomvideo to send over. And a lot of
times, I have done that, andit's worked or at least gotten
people interested enough thatthey're, like, ready for, like,
a final quick call to, like,make a decision, which is fine,
(24:56):
especially for my higher ticketstuff. Our, like, highest ticket
service is our ongoingmembership or program management
where we're entirely, like,running somebody's program for
them.
And that I have yet to, likelike, that requires a sales
call. Mostly, though, for me.Like, I'm interviewing them,
like, do we want to ban It's avibe check. Yeah. It's a vibe
check for sure.
And it's, like, six month orlonger contracts. So it's super
(25:19):
necessary to have a call inthose scenarios. But if you have
services that aren't your highticket custom stuff, like, you
might as well be selling easilywith emails and LIM videos.
Walking in the process andmaking sure it was really
humming. And then it's easier tosell and to make that pitch deck
because it's all the same.
Susan Boles (25:41):
Yeah. I am a huge fan of productizing services,
and it's probably I don't know.75% of the work I do with
clients is helping them designthat delivery. Because I think
it can be a really, reallypowerful tool, one, to make, you
know, writing contracts orproposals or the sales process.
Everything gets easier when youhave a specific way that you're
(26:06):
delivering your services overand over and over again.
And the more you do it in justthat way, the better experience
people get, but also you getfaster and better at it. Yeah.
So it allows you to be reallyefficient and create margin in a
lot of different areas of yourbusiness. Potential clients come
(26:29):
into our sales process from allkinds of places. Sometimes it's
introductions from referralpartners, business friends,
random coffee chats.
So how does that impact how youmanage or think about this
process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (26:42):
When you get referrals. I feel like that
gets tricky because sometimeswith an introduction, people are
expecting a call. I'm probablymaking that up.
Susan Boles (26:51):
I don't know. I I would I would say I probably do
have the same assumption that,like, when somebody is
introducing, a lot of the times,it's not for a specific thing.
Right? Like, somebody's sendingyou a referral, but it's not for
a specific piece. And you'reright.
Like, I do have the expectationthat I am gonna have to get on a
call to talk to this person tothen get them into a more
(27:15):
asynchronous sales process. So,yeah, very interested to see how
you handle those.
Becky Pierson Davidson (27:19):
Yeah. I think it breaks down. I do have
one marketing agency that Ipartner with because I have
found that marketing agenciesare great people for me to
partner with because they workwith clients that their products
need fixing. So I'm like, bringin this person. I've been good
about informing her, that agencyowner, of updates in my
(27:40):
business.
So I'm like, I will send her aLoom video and her my pitch
decks. And I will say, these arewhat I'm offering. This is,
like, the options so that whenshe refers somebody, she says,
like, hey, Becky. I would lovefor you to do an audit for this
client. Can you send theminformation on that?
And so then, because she'ssetting me up, I'm like,
awesome. Like, here's everythingyou need. Like, so excited to
(28:02):
meet you. Just took a look atyour business. And then I'm
like, I have this video for you,and here's everything you need
to know about audits.
Let me know what questions youhave. And if they come back and
they're like, hey. Can we have acall? Then, of course, I have a
call. But that only worksbecause that o agency owner is
so educated on what I offer thatshe tell she does the intros the
right way.
Susan Boles (28:20):
It's interesting because, like, I I also have,
you know, a few referralpartners that, like, we're
consistently sending each otherbusiness. Mhmm. When you are
developing new partners, are youthinking about how you train
them to be good referralpartners now, or is this
something that's just kind ofcome organically because a lot
(28:41):
of your leads come from onespecific partner?
Becky Pierson Davidson (28:45):
It's definitely happened organically
with this partner, but it has methinking about how I can better
foster those relationships withother partners. Right now, we're
building a platform partnership,and so we're putting together
this, like, one pager of what weoffer. And I'm just trying to
be, like, so clear so that theirsales team, when referring, can
say, like, hey. You should workwith this company. Company.
(29:07):
This is what they offer that'sgonna be perfect for you. And
then I'm able to go through mytypical asynchronous sales
process. So, yeah, I'm thinkingabout it. I'm trying to
implement it now because I haveseen how worked organically with
this one person. But I think itworked organically because I
have been, like, updating her.
Like, I send her I'm like, hey.We're offering Circle setup now.
(29:27):
Here you go. I sent her the PDFand for the Circle setup, which
is a a beta service. And thenher client was like, great.
Let's do it. So I didn't evensend a Loom video for that one.
And we had the kickoff callyesterday. So I'm like,
Susan Boles (29:40):
great. I mean, I think that's one of the benefits
of having productized servicesis they are much more referable.
I think so frequently, you know,we talk about developing
referral partners, but it isreally difficult to send a good
referral as the person I'mhaving a conversation with
somebody and they mentionsomething, and I'm like, oh,
(30:02):
yeah. I know somebody who doesthat and does it so well. I
think having the PDFs or havinga really clear understanding of
how and what and who they'redelivering delivering services
to clients for, it makes iteasier to do referrals because
you're taking so much of thelift of making that introduction
(30:23):
off their plate.
You know? If they have a PDF,they can send the PDF and say,
hey. I know somebody who doesthis exact thing that you're
looking for. They're great. Gowork with them.
Yeah. But I think when we'rethinking about developing
referrals or developingpartnerships, we really forget
about that piece, and we forgetto update them about, hey.
(30:44):
Here's what I'm offering. Here'swho it's for. Here's how it
works.
And so I love that that issomething that you're thinking
about, and I think somethingthat people with productized
services especially should bethinking more about is how do I
make this easy for someone torefer.
Becky Pierson Davidson (31:01):
I believe there's something to be
said for transparency amongconsultants too where, like,
because she has my pitch decks,she knows my pricing. Like, one
time I referred a client tosomebody without knowing their
pricing and then later found outfrom my client how much they
paid for that service, and Ifelt so embarrassed that I
referred them because theirprice point was, like, five x
(31:21):
what I would deem acceptable.Now I'm, like, fully
transparent. Like, here's mypricing. These are the things
that I offer.
And if that feels aligned to youfor your client, like, know
their budget more intimatelythan I do, then, like, please
pitch me. If not, great. That'sreally, really important.
Susan Boles (31:38):
Yeah. I think under thought through, we're out
having these coffee chats andthese calls and doing
introduction and trying to buildrelationships. And I agree with
you. I think the transparency isreally important. I think being
able to really effectivelycommunicate who you do, what you
do it for, and how much you costis really valuable information.
And I have noticed in my ownwork, the people that I keep up
(32:02):
to date the most and amtransparent with are the ones
that send me the most referrals.Yep. Because they have
everything they need to be ableto do that.
Becky Pierson Davidson (32:10):
I'm glad you mentioned coffee chats too
because I wanna be clear that Idon't wanna spend my time on
sales calls because I wannaspend my time building, like,
partnerships and connection andrelationships. I do a lot of
calls, but they are, like,coffee chat style, like you
said. Like, people likeyourself, like, other agency
owners, just getting to knowthem because I find that that's
my best lead source. So I wouldrather spend my time building
(32:32):
those relationships, and then Ican convert their clients via a
Loom video. That's where I wannaspend my time.
And I think that when you makethat shift from endless sales
calls to, like, relationshipbuilding conversations that lead
to leads, like, that is just amuch, much better use of time.
Susan Boles (32:53):
What has the impact on having this process been on
your work or how your businessfeels to run?
Becky Pierson Davidson (33:02):
It's definitely shorter to signed
project because I'm doing oursales decks and all of the sales
process right now. I'm alsostill doing a lot of client
work, still, like, very much inthe strategy piece of things and
and doing all of our, like,social media and marketing. And
I spend a lot of time, like, inDMs. I would get an hour request
(33:24):
in, and then it would take me,like, a week to get them
something before. And now it'slike, I can send something
within the hour.
And so that is a huge time torevenue, just savor there. Also,
people are most interested whenthey first reach out, and so I
think there's value in, like,getting back to them quickly.
I've also been able to sell morebecause I'm not, like, focused
(33:46):
on, okay. This week, I'm workingon this proposal. This week, I'm
working on this proposal.
I'm doing that for, like, reallylarge contracts. But for all of
these smaller projects, I'm ableto just, like, get pitches out
the door like nobody's business.So we're able to sell. Right?
Like, we we have higher revenuethan we used to have.
And then the last thing I'll sayis that I've gotten a lot of my
time back. So less sales callsmeans time. Even, like, getting
(34:10):
ready sales call. You know?
Susan Boles (34:11):
I love that. And I I like the fact that it's really
kind of taking what we typicallythink business has to be and
sort of flipping it around tosay, is there another way that
we could be doing this? Arethere other places where we
could get time back, stilldeliver a great experience to
(34:32):
potential clients and actualclients, but still designing
your own work in a way thatreally aligns with how you want
to be working. You know, ifyou're somebody who doesn't love
sales calls and doesn't lovebeing on Zoom all day, you know,
being able to be a businessowner in the way that works for
(34:54):
you, I think, is reallyunderestimated and can be very
powerful when it comes to, like,just being sustainable when
you're running a business. Youhave a lot of responsibilities.
You're wearing a lot of hats,which I think is common for a
lot of business owners. And sobeing able to really focus in
the areas that you really wannafocus, which is doing community
(35:16):
building and making the otherpieces of business that aren't
necessarily your favorite oryour sweet spots as easy for you
to do as possible.
Becky Pierson Davidson (35:28):
Yeah, exactly. So
Susan Boles (35:34):
what is your own favorite way to make your work
calmer?
Becky Pierson Davidson (35:38):
I really just believe wholeheartedly that
life gets to be fun and you getto design it. And so if it's not
a hell yes, it's a no. Like,that's probably my number one
thing is, like, I say no a lot.I hold boundaries a lot. I'm
like, no.
I don't do calls on Fridays. No.I can't jump on a call right
now. The other day, a client waslike, hey. Can you just jump on
(35:59):
a call?
I've already done an extra callthat he paid for. And I was
frustrated by that. And I said,I can't get on a call right now,
but send me a voice note or aLIM video, and I will get to it
between things. And he justwrote me a one sentence note,
and, like, I had a reply. Andit's like, sometimes we're so
quick to be like, oh, my clientneeds me.
Like, I need to, like, get onthis phone call. And it's like,
(36:20):
no. You don't. You get tochoose. And you get to kinda own
your time and your life.
And so I'm just have really goodboundaries that keeps me calm.
And I just try to have a lot offun. I start my day at ten. I'm
not trying to rush into work.Like, I just do what I wanna do.
I love that. Do what I
Susan Boles (36:40):
wanna do. That's a great that's a great answer.
Thank you so much for beinghere. This was so useful. I'm
about to go change my sales.
Becky Pierson Davidson (36:49):
Oh my god. Keep me posted. I'm so
excited for you.
Susan Boles (36:57):
An asynchronous sales system might not be for
you. Maybe you're someone whoreally shines on live calls or
you just enjoy them. And that'sokay. But even if that's the
case, there's a lot of benefitsto implementing some elements
from either Becky's asynchronoussales process or from Candle
Cherry's process to at leastreduce the number of calls
you're having with folks whoaren't a great fit or maybe
(37:19):
aren't aren't ready to work withyou yet. And if you happen to be
more of an introvert, maybe youdon't love sales calls, or
you're just finding that you'rereally busy these days,
implementing some parts of thesesystems or even the whole thing
can be a pretty powerfulcapacity booster.
The process can still be reallypersonal, still be high touch,
(37:39):
still be human and not be live.Live might be the default, but
it doesn't have to be. So ifyou're intrigued by this whole
idea of an asynchronous but hightouch sales process, but
Becky Pierson Davidson (37:53):
you're
Susan Boles (37:53):
not quite sure if it's something that you can
implement on your own or maybeit feels a little overwhelming,
I can help. We can design andimplement your asynchronous
sales process in a one dayintensive so you can have the
system built and launched in asingle day. If that sounds
interesting, you can check outmy services guide at the link in
the show notes or atbeyondmargins.com/services. It's
(38:14):
got all the details about howthe works, pricing and the kinds
of problems it can solve in yourbusiness. And yes, after I
recorded the episode withKendall Cherry, I decided to
test the asynchronous salesprocess in my own business.
So, yeah, it's a little meta.Thanks for listening and until
next time, stay calm.
There you are, sitting in your Zoom room,
waiting for a sales lead to poponto the call. And you're
waiting and waiting and waiting,only to realize you've been
ghosted again. Or you look atyour calendar and you see that
you're in back to back to backsales calls for the next few
days, which is great. Everyoneloves a full pipeline. But when
(00:27):
are you supposed to actually doyour work?
Sales calls can take up a ton ofenergy, brain space, and actual
time. Time that you might needfor other parts of your business
or for your life. Handing offthe sales process to someone
else is one of the mostdifficult and should usually be
one of the last things todelegate. So you can't just fix
(00:49):
it by giving the process away tosomeone else. And sales calls
are necessary to run a clientbased business.
You have to do them in order toclose deals. Or do you? Welcome
to Calm is the New KPI, thepodcast where we challenge
default business advice andbreak down the levers you can
pull to create a calmer businessthat actually works for you. I'm
(01:12):
your host, Susan Bowles. Youprobably, like I do, work with
clients.
And when you're trying to grow aclient based business, you can
run into a capacity ceilingpretty darn quick. The default
business advice in thatsituation would be start a group
program or open a membership orsell a digital product. But what
if you don't want to? What ifyou love working with clients
(01:36):
and you want to keep workingwith clients? What do you do
then?
How do you scale a client basedfirm without ditching client
work? That's what we're geekingout about in this mini series.
And today we're looking at thesales process and eliminating
sales calls. I'm betting when Ijust said eliminate sales calls,
(01:56):
there was a part of you that wasinterested, excited even. And
then you probably immediatelythought that'll never work.
How are you going to close dealsif you don't talk to potential
clients? The default of the livesales call is pretty deeply
entrenched in our businessculture. That's the expected on
both the client side and on theprovider side. It's the way it's
(02:19):
always been done because we allkind of collectively believe
that you can't close sales onexpensive client engagements
without sales calls. The salesprocess has to be high touch,
highly personalized.
And the only way to do that iswith a live meeting. Now, this
is probably a holdover from likethe old school agency days where
you had to wine and dine aclient to close a deal. But
(02:42):
traditional live sales calls canbe really time consuming. And if
you're bumping up against acapacity ceiling, maybe sales
calls are the thing to cut or atleast minimize. Now, the idea of
not having a sales call beforeyou buy is an idea we're pretty
comfortable with when it comesto buying products, digital or
otherwise.
Maybe you're okay with it whenit comes to joining community or
(03:04):
group program. But when it comesto client based services, it's
kind of hard to imagine how thatmight work because that sales
call default is so deeplyingrained. Except that's exactly
what my guest today is doing.Becky Pearson Davidson is a
community builder, creator,educator, and founder of
(03:25):
Affinity Collective, which is aproduct strategy agency that
works with community drivenfounders. And she's taking us
behind the scenes of her hightouch personalized sales process
that happens almost entirelywithout sales calls.
Now, if you haven't listened tothe episode with Kendall Cherry,
it's a few episodes back in thefeed. Kendall also talks about
(03:46):
developing an asynchronous salesprocess for her client services
as part of our discussion aroundher calm KPI. Now I highly
recommend that if this wholeasynchronous sales process is a
topic that you're interested in,go check out that episode first
and then come back. These twoepisodes together can be kind of
a part one and part two. So Irecommend checking that out
(04:07):
first.
We're gonna take a quick breakto hear from our sponsors, and
then we'll get into the detailsof Becky's strategy, how her
system works, and all theresources that she built to
basically eliminate her salescalls. All right Becky, so you
(04:28):
are doing a lot of the sales inyour business without any actual
sales calls. So you're doingthem in DMs or emails or other
places, often with a Loom videoor a voice note. And for a lot
of us who work with clients,that might seem a little
blasphemous, a littleuncomfortable maybe. So tell me
(04:50):
a little bit about what it wasthat led you to experiment with
having your sales process be alittle bit more asynchronous
instead of something liketraditional calls, traditional,
you know, meetings.
Becky Pierson Davidson (05:01):
Yeah. The main call to action on my
website used to be schedule acall with me. And I had, like, a
couple no shows in a row. And Iknow that there's lots of ways
you can combat this, like, sendreminders, like, whatever. But I
was so pissed one day, and Iwrote on LinkedIn and I was
like, I'm done doing salescalls.
And just everybody was like,well, have you tried this or
(05:23):
that? I'm like, no. I'm gonnatry Loom videos. And so I think
the catalyst was that I wasangry. I also don't love being
on calls.
Like, I'm really protective ofmy calendar and have a lot of
days with no calls at all. Andso even though I'm running an
agency, even though I have a lotof clients, I'm really careful
about, like, how many calls Itake, and I have a strong
(05:44):
boundary there. So I've tried tofigure out, like, how
Susan Boles (05:47):
to how can I avoid these as much as possible? So
take me through kind of theexperimentation of what the
process started as and theevolution of, like, what does it
look like now for you?
Becky Pierson Davidson (06:04):
I always would think about price point as
kind of, like, my testingground. So it was easy for me to
start with my audits. So I dothese membership audits, product
audits, where I'll go in and,like, review somebody's
membership review somebody'smembership or their program and
give them feedback. And it's anasynchronous product, so I'm
also setting up the expectationthat they're gonna get Loom
(06:25):
videos from me. So I thought itwas a really good one to start
with.
So I started by essentiallyhaving a sales page on my
website for audits. I would talkabout audits. And honestly, most
people that buy audits DM melike, hey. Do you give feedback
on memberships? And I'm like,yeah.
I do. And then I send over a PDFand a Loom video, which is me
(06:46):
talking over the same PDF, andit started working. Like, people
were like, great. Send me aninvoice. And I was like, hell
yeah.
No sales call needed. So thatwas kind of where it started.
But now it's gotten to the pointwhere I've sold 15 grand
engagements via a Loom video,which is amazing.
Susan Boles (07:06):
I love that. And I I am a big fan of having the
sales and on boarding processreally reflect what it feels
like to work with you. If you'rea coach where, you know, your
entire engagement is face toface calls, your sales process
should probably have a face toface call. Likewise, I love the
fact that the product isasynchronous, and the sales
(07:29):
process helps set them up tounderstand what that kind of
engagement could look like.Yeah.
It's an asynchronous processwhere I make them a Notion page
that has Loom videos embedded innotes, and they have
Becky Pierson Davidson (07:41):
a Slack channel with me for thirty days
for implementation. And they getone call they can book because I
just realized that it wasneeded. And so there is one call
in this service, but it comeslater. So in the Loom video
where I'm talking about, here'sthe process, this is what audit
looks like, it's it's a shortvideo, I do a teeny bit of
(08:01):
education so they see the vibe.And then I'll say, like, you're
gonna get Loom videos just likethis one where I'm giving you
feedback directly on yourmembership, but I'm also giving
you micro trainings that arecustomized to you.
They're getting a little tasteof it in the sales process.
Yeah.
Susan Boles (08:17):
I love that. So take me kind of end to end
through, like, what a typicalsales process with a client
looks like for you now.
Becky Pierson Davidson (08:26):
I wish there was, like, one very, very
clear typical, but there's,like, a point at which they all
converge. So I'll give you acouple examples. So Ideal World,
and this does happen for some ofthem, they come through our
Affinity Collective website,which is the name of my agency.
So they go to the contact page,they fill out a form, they're
selecting which service they'remost interested in, and then
(08:48):
they are submitting their form,and I immediately get a Slack
message. So we have a Slackchannel that's, like, called
leads.
And I don't have something superformal just yet. Like, I'm not
doing a great job trackingleads, but I have my Slack
channel, and that works for meright now. So I get a Slack
message. Message. I see it.
I see what they're interestedin. I read the responses, and
(09:09):
I'm like, okay. I know that I'mgonna pitch this person an audit
or I'm gonna show them a couplepackages, maybe, like, audit
versus audit plus consulting.And so I have this Canva deck
that is everything, and Iduplicate it, I cut it down, and
then I record them something ifit needs to be custom or bespoke
based on their message to me.But a lot of times, if they're
(09:33):
like, I'm looking for an auditand their answers are really
short, I just send my cannedone, which is like a deck that's
an audit and then a a video.
And so it's like, all I need todo is just email that over.
Afterwards, they usually replywith questions or most of time,
they're like, great. Send me aninvoice if they wanna go
forward, which is excellent. Andthat works the best with the
(09:53):
audits. My other service that'slike, I would say the next level
up is a strategy sprint whereit's an eight week process.
We're doing a ton of research.They have two options. We do it
all for them or done with youwhere we're giving them
templates and resources. Sothere's really crazy different
price point. And so I send themthis same thing, this pitch deck
(10:14):
with a video.
That one, I actually pretty muchalways keep the same. I don't
really customize that one. Andthen there's usually some back
and forth. I would say 80% ofthe time, I don't have to get on
a sales call. Sometimes whenthey wanna choose the larger
package, they wanna bring in ateam member to, like, talk
through it or something.
And so I do get on a sales callat that point, but most of the
time, it goes back and forth viaemail.
Susan Boles (10:35):
So I think in order to really effectively do a
asynchronous sales process, whatI'm hearing here is it's really
a different communication style.So did you find that you had to
tweak how you were communicatingor what kind of information you
included as part of the pitchdeck or the video? Did you try
(10:59):
this just written? Try it with avideo? Like, how did the process
evolve so that you can build thesame kind of trust that people
are believing that they'rebuilding in a regular sales
call.
Becky Pierson Davidson (11:11):
When it comes to trust, I think there's
something to be said for thefact that I'm building community
and I'm writing online and I'mbuilding trust on these, like,
discovery platforms. And so whenI say, like, I'll sell in a DM
because the other route, theyeither come through the website
or I'll get a direct message,usually on Instagram, sometimes
LinkedIn, where somebody's like,hey. Do you do audits? They're
(11:34):
replying to, like, my storyabout something random. And
they're like, hey.
Do you do membership audits? AndI'm like, yeah. I do. Here's the
deal. And I usually, like, sendover a voice note, and that's
usually custom.
Like, I I just record a voicenote, send it, and then they
sometimes sell directly inthere. Other times, they're
like, oh, I'd love moreinformation on this. I'm like,
(11:55):
great. What's your email? I'llemail you over something.
And that's when I send the PDFand the WHIM video that is,
again, canned. Most of the time,I'm sending something that I
recorded once, but there is thisnurture happening via, like,
back and forth DMs or, like,beforehand. So I am building
trust with them, but it's justnot on a call. It's kind
Susan Boles (12:16):
of a little bit of a mind shift for people who are
in, you know, very traditionalagencies where we are expecting,
you know, a fancy pitch deck orexpecting a call where you're,
like, laying out all of thesebeautiful things that you could
possibly do. And so I think itdoes take a little bit of a
mindset shift to think about howcould this look Mhmm. Where you
(12:40):
still deliver all of the sameinformation, the same human
touch, but just not necessarilyone to one. You're still
delivering a very human processthat feels customized to them,
but from your perspective isnot. So when you were thinking
(13:01):
about recording the video thatyou are sending out to people,
how did you think aboutstructuring the information in
there so that it could be morebroadly applicable but still
feel really human?
I think part of it is my stylewhen I talk on a video is just I
just pretend.
Becky Pierson Davidson (13:21):
I, like, literally picture my friend on
the other side. And it's sofunny because I get feedback. I
did, like, a campaign to getnewsletter testimonials
recently, and every single oneof them was like, I feel like
I'm learning from my smartfriend. And I'm like, perfect.
Like, that's the energy I'mgoing for.
And so when I speak on this,like, Loom video, I'm like, hey.
I'm really excited to tell youabout this what I think will be
(13:45):
a great service for you. Basedon what you shared with me, I
think a strategy sprint is greatfor you. And so let me tell you
a little bit about how it worksand what you're gonna get out of
it and how it's gonna impactyour business. And so I go
through it.
And so there's, like, a nudgeto, like, the conversation that
we had even though everybodysees it. I feel like I'm I'm I
(14:05):
feel like I'm being sketchy, butI'm not.
Susan Boles (14:08):
No. It's not. Like, that's actually one of my
favorite parts when I am talkingabout, like, doing things really
efficiently or delivering thingsefficiently, I think it's really
important to do that in a waythat still feels very high touch
and still feels very human tohuman connection. Connection. So
(14:29):
to me, it doesn't feel sketchy.
It feels like you areestablishing a connection. And
for those of us who have doneclient services for a long time,
at least in my experience andwith the experience of my
clients, everybody thinks theyhave a very special unique
situation. Mhmm. Very few peopleactually do. Yes.
Most people have the sameproblem. And for them, it's
(14:50):
unique. For the people who solvethat problem, it's the same
problem over and over and overagain that we are solving as
consultants.
Becky Pierson Davidson (14:59):
Yeah. And sometimes I'll add, like, a
a little bit of a custom messagein the email body, but it's not
long. It's like a couplesentences where I'm like, in
most cases, I've, like, heard ofthem or know them or they're
like, this person mentioned you.You know? So, like, personal
touch in the email.
But, yeah, that repeatable salesprocess of just, like, adding in
the PDF and the Loom video hassaved me so much time, and it
(15:21):
works. Like, it converts reallywell. Yeah.
Susan Boles (15:24):
I love that it is both efficient and human. Mhmm.
And it saves you a lot of time,but it feels very high touch to
the people who are receivingthat video. Yeah. So talk to me
a little bit about as you wereevolving this process, were
there places where you triedpieces of this and it didn't
(15:48):
work, places where people tendto get tripped up that you had
to either rerecord the video toinclude more information.
Or you tried it, and it worked,and it's been pretty good ever
since.
Becky Pierson Davidson (15:59):
I tried it with just the PDFs at the
beginning, and then I startedadding in the Loom video, and
then it did better. So there'sstill on occasion like, if I've
talked to somebody or I knowsomebody, I don't even send the
video. I just send over the PDF.And I wouldn't say it's, like,
we're so dialed and locked inthat it's always, like, this
exact same process every time,and I'm measuring it really
(16:21):
well. So I just wanna caveatwith that.
I try to gauge. Do clientsgenerally know what their
problem is or not? A lot oftimes, they think they need an
audit, but they actually need aresearch project. And so I have
to do a little bit of education.And so I'll kind of, like,
usually make a custom video forthose scenarios or offer a call
if I feel like it's worth it.
Susan Boles (16:42):
And how are you sussing that out? Like, how are
you figuring out that they don'tnecessarily know what they need.
Becky Pierson Davidson (16:50):
It's in the email they send me, like,
the form they fill out or theirDMs to me. Or I look at their
offers, and I'm like, oh, no.They're all over the place.
Especially people that have areoffering, like, 20 different
things, and I just see a lot ofchaos happening. Right?
I'm like, okay. We we need tostart with, like, streamlining
your offer suite. I stalk them alittle bit, and then I decide if
(17:11):
they're know what they'relooking for or not. But it's
also painfully obvious whenpeople are really super clear to
me in in the things that I offerif they're, like, really clear
on what they need. If they'relike, hey.
I know I wanna launch amembership, and we have these
other things that are doingwell. I'm not sure how to, like,
transition over to this. I'mlike, great.
Susan Boles (17:28):
I know exactly what to send them. That makes sense.
Speaking of emailing, what doesyour follow-up process look like
here? Is that an a considerationin your process at all or
because of the nature of whatyou're selling and, like, the
productization, people eithersign on or they don't? Like, how
(17:49):
long does the sales processnormally take?
Becky Pierson Davidson (17:52):
Oh, man. Sometimes it ranges everything
from, like, one hour to, like,six months. Sometimes people
will DM me. I'll I'll tell themthe details, they're like,
great. Let's start.
Like, when can you start? AndI'm like, away. And they're
like, great. And then we start.I would say in most cases, it is
like that, but that's with mysmaller creator clients.
The larger engagements isdefinitely a longer process.
(18:15):
Those usually were going backand forth for at least a couple
weeks. But, again, sometimes I'mtalking to people and then a
couple months later, they'reready. And so my process for
follow-up is to follow-up every,you know, week or two weeks or
just check-in and see, like,hey. How's it going?
I haven't heard from you. Idon't have, like, a super
streamlined process. I just kindof go off vibes. I feel it out.
(18:38):
Like, feel them out.
Susan Boles (18:39):
Because I'm like, I don't I don't think there's a
wrong answer. I'm just alwayscurious because some people have
very, very structured, like,follow-up processes. And it
seems more likely if you havevery productized services and a
very streamlined sales process,that follow-up process might be
more structured. But, like, II'm like you. I'll just
follow-up every once in while.
I'll be like, yo. How arethings? Yeah. What's happening?
(19:02):
Are you still interested?
Are you a no? Like, what'swhat's going on?
Becky Pierson Davidson (19:06):
Yeah. Exactly. I think there's
something to be said for whilethis is so systematized, it's
also so human. Like, I get thevibe of where they're at.
There's people like, the peoplethat are super clear, I will
follow-up very quickly becauseI'm like, let's go.
Like, you're clear. Let's jumpon it. The people that are,
like, don't know what they need,they're reaching out because
they're like, somebody told memy community needs help and,
(19:28):
like, ugh. You know, they're,like, anxious. I'm just like,
hey.
Just, like, thinking of you, sawthis article. You know, just,
like, little nudges like afriend versus Mhmm. Hey. Let's
get started. You said you wereready.
So for me, the follow-up processis not something I will I will
probably systematize.
Susan Boles (19:45):
Yeah. I mean, that sounds very on the brand for you
given that you're, you know,you're all about communities and
the community experience. And Iimagine that reflects inside
kind of all of the pieces ofyour client experience because
that's such a focus for you andyour work. Are there key things
(20:07):
or key places where you areconsciously either systematizing
or not systematizing to makewhat you're doing with a client
feel personal, feel engaging, toreflect on that human process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (20:24):
Yeah. Let's talk about the audit, for
example. So the audit itself, Ihave a Notion template, and I
have a checklist and, like, anSOP for it. So it's very
systematized, the execution ofthat project. But then when I go
to record the videos, becauseevery client gets custom videos
as part of their audit, they'resuper personal because I'm like,
(20:46):
hey.
Like, I just did one the otherday, and she's killing it. Like,
her her membership is reallygood, and the feedback I gave
her will definitely help take itto the next level, but she's
already doing a lot of thingsreally well. And people like to
hear that they're doing reallywell. So I did this opening
video where I'm like, you arecrushing it. Here's what you're
doing.
Amazing. And, like, because ofher and her personality, just,
like, chatting with her online,and I've never done a call with
(21:08):
her, I, like, just wanted tokeep things casual with her and
just and also, like, I got thevibe that getting some positive
feedback was gonna feel reallygood. So I gave her that. And
then with current clients andpast clients, I'm always, like,
messaging with them on Instagramespecially, just, like, replying
to their stuff and being like,this is great. Like, so excited
(21:30):
to see you doing this.
And that's, like, a definitely,like, a nurture strategy for
them to come back and work withme again, but it's also just
being really, like, communitydriven, and that is always what
I come back to. And so theexperience itself is, like, my
process is super repeatable. Ihave SOPs. I have, like,
templates I'm using. I'mproviding my clients with, like,
(21:51):
onboarding email templates, forexample.
But how I tell them to apply it,like, I'm DMing them like a
friend or I'm voice noting themlike a friend. Like, hey. I sent
you this. I want you to thinkabout x, y, and z. Like, blah
blah blah blah.
Susan Boles (22:03):
I think there is a real need for the way that we
are operating in business and asconsultants and as clients to be
more human. I think Yeah. We saythat we're all business owners
and we feel like we need to besuper professional about it. But
I actually think the bestexperiences are ones that are
(22:26):
friendly, that are casual, thatfeel like you are DMing with a
friend about a problem thatyou're having. And I think we
can deliver really good servicesand still be human beings about
it.
Becky Pierson Davidson (22:39):
Yeah. That's, like, my motto. I'm
like, business is all abouthuman to human right now. For
me, like, launching my agencywas important because I wanted
to not have to executeeverything. And because I'm
building personal brand andbuilding, like, community around
me, people wanna work with me.
And so that's why I made thatdecision is to, like, hey. Work
(22:59):
with my agency, but I'm stillconnecting with people. But I do
have people that are helping mewith my projects. And so that's
been a really nice shift, butit's, like, definitely part
Susan Boles (23:09):
of our ethos is, like, treat clients like they're
your buds. So we've kind oftouched on this a little bit
about productizing services andhow that is a really important
first step before you can tryand do an asynchronous sales
process. Yeah. Which makes a lotof sense because if you're doing
a custom project every time, youreally can't standardize a sales
(23:32):
process to be as streamlined asyou have it. You could certainly
do custom pitches this way.
But how do you think about theway you've structured your
services as being a keycomponent in the asynchronous
sales process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (23:48):
So first of all, I read the book Built to
Sell. It's a fiction book, butit's about a guy who builds a
branding agency. And,essentially, the takeaway that I
had from that book was, like, Ineed to productize one service
and do it really well. So highlyrecommend Built to Sell. I
started experimenting with justdifferent productized offers,
(24:11):
and so I essentially have twothat are super productized.
One is the audit. One is thesprint. And now we're
experimenting with a third,which is setting up people's
circle builds. So we're, like,building out SOPs, and that's,
like, in beta right now. So,definitely, we'll be selling
those asynchronous.
Like, we're gonna start testingthat. I think productizing is
important because that's whatallows you to have this one
(24:33):
pitch deck and this one videothat you can make work for
everyone. I still think withcustom projects, though, if you
have enough information, you cancustomize the deck a little bit
and still make a custom Loomvideo to send over. And a lot of
times, I have done that, andit's worked or at least gotten
people interested enough thatthey're, like, ready for, like,
a final quick call to, like,make a decision, which is fine,
(24:56):
especially for my higher ticketstuff. Our, like, highest ticket
service is our ongoingmembership or program management
where we're entirely, like,running somebody's program for
them.
And that I have yet to, likelike, that requires a sales
call. Mostly, though, for me.Like, I'm interviewing them,
like, do we want to ban It's avibe check. Yeah. It's a vibe
check for sure.
And it's, like, six month orlonger contracts. So it's super
(25:19):
necessary to have a call inthose scenarios. But if you have
services that aren't your highticket custom stuff, like, you
might as well be selling easilywith emails and LIM videos.
Walking in the process andmaking sure it was really
humming. And then it's easier tosell and to make that pitch deck
because it's all the same.
Susan Boles (25:41):
Yeah. I am a huge fan of productizing services,
and it's probably I don't know.75% of the work I do with
clients is helping them designthat delivery. Because I think
it can be a really, reallypowerful tool, one, to make, you
know, writing contracts orproposals or the sales process.
Everything gets easier when youhave a specific way that you're
(26:06):
delivering your services overand over and over again.
And the more you do it in justthat way, the better experience
people get, but also you getfaster and better at it. Yeah.
So it allows you to be reallyefficient and create margin in a
lot of different areas of yourbusiness. Potential clients come
(26:29):
into our sales process from allkinds of places. Sometimes it's
introductions from referralpartners, business friends,
random coffee chats.
So how does that impact how youmanage or think about this
process?
Becky Pierson Davidson (26:42):
When you get referrals. I feel like that
gets tricky because sometimeswith an introduction, people are
expecting a call. I'm probablymaking that up.
Susan Boles (26:51):
I don't know. I I would I would say I probably do
have the same assumption that,like, when somebody is
introducing, a lot of the times,it's not for a specific thing.
Right? Like, somebody's sendingyou a referral, but it's not for
a specific piece. And you'reright.
Like, I do have the expectationthat I am gonna have to get on a
call to talk to this person tothen get them into a more
(27:15):
asynchronous sales process. So,yeah, very interested to see how
you handle those.
Becky Pierson Davidson (27:19):
Yeah. I think it breaks down. I do have
one marketing agency that Ipartner with because I have
found that marketing agenciesare great people for me to
partner with because they workwith clients that their products
need fixing. So I'm like, bringin this person. I've been good
about informing her, that agencyowner, of updates in my
(27:40):
business.
So I'm like, I will send her aLoom video and her my pitch
decks. And I will say, these arewhat I'm offering. This is,
like, the options so that whenshe refers somebody, she says,
like, hey, Becky. I would lovefor you to do an audit for this
client. Can you send theminformation on that?
And so then, because she'ssetting me up, I'm like,
awesome. Like, here's everythingyou need. Like, so excited to
(28:02):
meet you. Just took a look atyour business. And then I'm
like, I have this video for you,and here's everything you need
to know about audits.
Let me know what questions youhave. And if they come back and
they're like, hey. Can we have acall? Then, of course, I have a
call. But that only worksbecause that o agency owner is
so educated on what I offer thatshe tell she does the intros the
right way.
Susan Boles (28:20):
It's interesting because, like, I I also have,
you know, a few referralpartners that, like, we're
consistently sending each otherbusiness. Mhmm. When you are
developing new partners, are youthinking about how you train
them to be good referralpartners now, or is this
something that's just kind ofcome organically because a lot
(28:41):
of your leads come from onespecific partner?
Becky Pierson Davidson (28:45):
It's definitely happened organically
with this partner, but it has methinking about how I can better
foster those relationships withother partners. Right now, we're
building a platform partnership,and so we're putting together
this, like, one pager of what weoffer. And I'm just trying to
be, like, so clear so that theirsales team, when referring, can
say, like, hey. You should workwith this company. Company.
(29:07):
This is what they offer that'sgonna be perfect for you. And
then I'm able to go through mytypical asynchronous sales
process. So, yeah, I'm thinkingabout it. I'm trying to
implement it now because I haveseen how worked organically with
this one person. But I think itworked organically because I
have been, like, updating her.
Like, I send her I'm like, hey.We're offering Circle setup now.
(29:27):
Here you go. I sent her the PDFand for the Circle setup, which
is a a beta service. And thenher client was like, great.
Let's do it. So I didn't evensend a Loom video for that one.
And we had the kickoff callyesterday. So I'm like,
Susan Boles (29:40):
great. I mean, I think that's one of the benefits
of having productized servicesis they are much more referable.
I think so frequently, you know,we talk about developing
referral partners, but it isreally difficult to send a good
referral as the person I'mhaving a conversation with
somebody and they mentionsomething, and I'm like, oh,
(30:02):
yeah. I know somebody who doesthat and does it so well. I
think having the PDFs or havinga really clear understanding of
how and what and who they'redelivering delivering services
to clients for, it makes iteasier to do referrals because
you're taking so much of thelift of making that introduction
(30:23):
off their plate.
You know? If they have a PDF,they can send the PDF and say,
hey. I know somebody who doesthis exact thing that you're
looking for. They're great. Gowork with them.
Yeah. But I think when we'rethinking about developing
referrals or developingpartnerships, we really forget
about that piece, and we forgetto update them about, hey.
(30:44):
Here's what I'm offering. Here'swho it's for. Here's how it
works.
And so I love that that issomething that you're thinking
about, and I think somethingthat people with productized
services especially should bethinking more about is how do I
make this easy for someone torefer.
Becky Pierson Davidson (31:01):
I believe there's something to be
said for transparency amongconsultants too where, like,
because she has my pitch decks,she knows my pricing. Like, one
time I referred a client tosomebody without knowing their
pricing and then later found outfrom my client how much they
paid for that service, and Ifelt so embarrassed that I
referred them because theirprice point was, like, five x
(31:21):
what I would deem acceptable.Now I'm, like, fully
transparent. Like, here's mypricing. These are the things
that I offer.
And if that feels aligned to youfor your client, like, know
their budget more intimatelythan I do, then, like, please
pitch me. If not, great. That'sreally, really important.
Susan Boles (31:38):
Yeah. I think under thought through, we're out
having these coffee chats andthese calls and doing
introduction and trying to buildrelationships. And I agree with
you. I think the transparency isreally important. I think being
able to really effectivelycommunicate who you do, what you
do it for, and how much you costis really valuable information.
And I have noticed in my ownwork, the people that I keep up
(32:02):
to date the most and amtransparent with are the ones
that send me the most referrals.Yep. Because they have
everything they need to be ableto do that.
Becky Pierson Davidson (32:10):
I'm glad you mentioned coffee chats too
because I wanna be clear that Idon't wanna spend my time on
sales calls because I wannaspend my time building, like,
partnerships and connection andrelationships. I do a lot of
calls, but they are, like,coffee chat style, like you
said. Like, people likeyourself, like, other agency
owners, just getting to knowthem because I find that that's
my best lead source. So I wouldrather spend my time building
(32:32):
those relationships, and then Ican convert their clients via a
Loom video. That's where I wannaspend my time.
And I think that when you makethat shift from endless sales
calls to, like, relationshipbuilding conversations that lead
to leads, like, that is just amuch, much better use of time.
Susan Boles (32:53):
What has the impact on having this process been on
your work or how your businessfeels to run?
Becky Pierson Davidson (33:02):
It's definitely shorter to signed
project because I'm doing oursales decks and all of the sales
process right now. I'm alsostill doing a lot of client
work, still, like, very much inthe strategy piece of things and
and doing all of our, like,social media and marketing. And
I spend a lot of time, like, inDMs. I would get an hour request
(33:24):
in, and then it would take me,like, a week to get them
something before. And now it'slike, I can send something
within the hour.
And so that is a huge time torevenue, just savor there. Also,
people are most interested whenthey first reach out, and so I
think there's value in, like,getting back to them quickly.
I've also been able to sell morebecause I'm not, like, focused
(33:46):
on, okay. This week, I'm workingon this proposal. This week, I'm
working on this proposal.
I'm doing that for, like, reallylarge contracts. But for all of
these smaller projects, I'm ableto just, like, get pitches out
the door like nobody's business.So we're able to sell. Right?
Like, we we have higher revenuethan we used to have.
And then the last thing I'll sayis that I've gotten a lot of my
time back. So less sales callsmeans time. Even, like, getting
(34:10):
ready sales call. You know?
Susan Boles (34:11):
I love that. And I I like the fact that it's really
kind of taking what we typicallythink business has to be and
sort of flipping it around tosay, is there another way that
we could be doing this? Arethere other places where we
could get time back, stilldeliver a great experience to
(34:32):
potential clients and actualclients, but still designing
your own work in a way thatreally aligns with how you want
to be working. You know, ifyou're somebody who doesn't love
sales calls and doesn't lovebeing on Zoom all day, you know,
being able to be a businessowner in the way that works for
(34:54):
you, I think, is reallyunderestimated and can be very
powerful when it comes to, like,just being sustainable when
you're running a business. Youhave a lot of responsibilities.
You're wearing a lot of hats,which I think is common for a
lot of business owners. And sobeing able to really focus in
the areas that you really wannafocus, which is doing community
(35:16):
building and making the otherpieces of business that aren't
necessarily your favorite oryour sweet spots as easy for you
to do as possible.
Becky Pierson Davidson (35:28):
Yeah, exactly. So
Susan Boles (35:34):
what is your own favorite way to make your work
calmer?
Becky Pierson Davidson (35:38):
I really just believe wholeheartedly that
life gets to be fun and you getto design it. And so if it's not
a hell yes, it's a no. Like,that's probably my number one
thing is, like, I say no a lot.I hold boundaries a lot. I'm
like, no.
I don't do calls on Fridays. No.I can't jump on a call right
now. The other day, a client waslike, hey. Can you just jump on
(35:59):
a call?
I've already done an extra callthat he paid for. And I was
frustrated by that. And I said,I can't get on a call right now,
but send me a voice note or aLIM video, and I will get to it
between things. And he justwrote me a one sentence note,
and, like, I had a reply. Andit's like, sometimes we're so
quick to be like, oh, my clientneeds me.
Like, I need to, like, get onthis phone call. And it's like,
(36:20):
no. You don't. You get tochoose. And you get to kinda own
your time and your life.
And so I'm just have really goodboundaries that keeps me calm.
And I just try to have a lot offun. I start my day at ten. I'm
not trying to rush into work.Like, I just do what I wanna do.
I love that. Do what I
Susan Boles (36:40):
wanna do. That's a great that's a great answer.
Thank you so much for beinghere. This was so useful. I'm
about to go change my sales.
Becky Pierson Davidson (36:49):
Oh my god. Keep me posted. I'm so
excited for you.
Susan Boles (36:57):
An asynchronous sales system might not be for
you. Maybe you're someone whoreally shines on live calls or
you just enjoy them. And that'sokay. But even if that's the
case, there's a lot of benefitsto implementing some elements
from either Becky's asynchronoussales process or from Candle
Cherry's process to at leastreduce the number of calls
you're having with folks whoaren't a great fit or maybe
(37:19):
aren't aren't ready to work withyou yet. And if you happen to be
more of an introvert, maybe youdon't love sales calls, or
you're just finding that you'rereally busy these days,
implementing some parts of thesesystems or even the whole thing
can be a pretty powerfulcapacity booster.
The process can still be reallypersonal, still be high touch,
(37:39):
still be human and not be live.Live might be the default, but
it doesn't have to be. So ifyou're intrigued by this whole
idea of an asynchronous but hightouch sales process, but
Becky Pierson Davidson (37:53):
you're
Susan Boles (37:53):
not quite sure if it's something that you can
implement on your own or maybeit feels a little overwhelming,
I can help. We can design andimplement your asynchronous
sales process in a one dayintensive so you can have the
system built and launched in asingle day. If that sounds
interesting, you can check outmy services guide at the link in
the show notes or atbeyondmargins.com/services. It's
(38:14):
got all the details about howthe works, pricing and the kinds
of problems it can solve in yourbusiness. And yes, after I
recorded the episode withKendall Cherry, I decided to
test the asynchronous salesprocess in my own business.
So, yeah, it's a little meta.Thanks for listening and until
next time, stay calm.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.