Carnot Evans, PE, Talks Roadways, Transit, and Are Standards Beating the Ingenuity out of Engineers?

Text us with feedback, questions, and guest suggestions.

Writing skills are important. Communication is key to managing public input and questions. Designing to just the standards v/s innovation – have the standards beaten the ingenuity out of us?

Carnot Evans, PE, Chair of the Florida Professional Engineers in Industry, covers a wide range of topics with your Engineering Florida host Sam Yates in this episode of Engineering Florida. 

Engineering Florida is presented by the Florida Engineering Society.

The Florida Engineering Society, Engineering Florida podcast, is produced by Yates & Associates, Public Relations & Marketing. Contact Sam Yates, [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Sam Yates (00:01):
Engineers are engenious professionals.
Engineers invent, design, verifyand qualify, engineers are the
professionals who make our livesand businesses prosperous and
safe. The Florida EngineeringSociety is proud to put our
engineering professionals in thespotlight so that they may

(00:21):
educate, share information andintroduce you to the world of
engineering that is thriving inFlorida. Here's your host of the
Engineering Florida podcast. SamYates, with today's guest

Sam Yates, Host, Florida (00:36):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another
episode of the FloridaEngineering Society, Engineering
Florida podcast. It's amouthful, but it is very
important that we talk about thevarious things that are
happening within the Floridaengineering circles. And today,
we may not be on the road again.
But we are on the road topicagain. Pardon me, Willie Nelson,

(00:56):
what better way to go over thetopics that are related to
transportation services than tospeak with an engineer who is
top of the field notestransportation, like the back of
his hand, and my guest today isthe Senior Project Manager for
Dewberry dewberries, anationwide firm with planning
design construction. As Imentioned, they operate all over

(01:20):
the country. They've been aroundfor more than a half century.
And Carnot Evans, welcome to theprogram today.

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (01:29):
Thank you, Sam, I'm honored to be
here.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida B (01:32):
Now, I have to say that when I made
the introduced introduction andwas introducing you, I didn't
want to in any way infer thatyou've been there for 50 years.
But you know, that company'sbeen around. You have quite an
impressive bio, and I want toget into a lot of your areas of
expertise. But before I do that,tell us a bit about yourself

(01:54):
first.

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (01:55):
Sure, Sam, as you mentioned, I'm a
Senior Project Manager and I'vebeen working in the
transportation planning anddesign field for about 18 years
now a little over 18 years. Igrew up in a few different areas
around the country, St. Louis,Missouri, New Jersey, Columbus
and Cleveland, Ohio. But I'velived in Orlando now for about

(02:16):
the past 30 years since cominghere to go to UCF. I started at
UCF as a mechanical engineeringmajor. And while I was there, I
worked at a co op on school andI moonlighted a bit as a pizza
delivery driver at the time tomake some extra money. The
franchisee of that pizza companyliked how I was working and

(02:37):
making deliveries efficient notjust for me, but for the whole
driver staff. And he offered mea management position. And it
paid very handsomely more than Iprobably could have made as a
graduate engineer out of schoolat the time. So I left school
and I did that for about sevenyears, I was managing
restaurants around Orlando, anddoing really well, money wise.

(02:58):
But after seven years, it wasreally kind of heavy on the
hours I was working lots of longhours, not a whole lot of days
off, doing well financially. ButI'd gotten married and I wanted
to start a family and that justwasn't going to work well with
with raising a family. So Idecided to go back to school.

(03:20):
And at the time, I also decidedto switch to civil engineering
and get into transportationdesign. Once I started, I once I
graduated, I started workingwith a firm here in Orlando, and
I really never looked back Icouldn't be happier with my
choice. As I said, I'm a projectmanager I'm working with as the

(03:44):
deputy program manager of thegeneral engineering consultant
to the Central Floridaexpressway authority as being my
main task at this point. I'mmanaging major projects for them
and other aspects of their$4,000,000,000.05 year work
plan. And I have a son incollege at UCF. He's studying
engineering and another onestill in high school and I'm

(04:05):
really enjoying my career as anengineer.

Sam Yates, Host, Flori (04:08):
Alright, I'm going to ask a question and
for those who are not in thepizza industry, they may not get
the question but you have spenta number of years in the pizza
industry. Did you dock thedough?

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (04:23):
dock the dough by using the rollers
with the spikes on it? Not atfirst but that became a company
policy after about five yearsand I really I was kind of
hesitant when they did it and Ithought it degraded from the
quality a little bit to behonest.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (04:42):
The reason I asked that question
when you were talking aboutbeing in Ohio, I also spent a
good number of years in Ohio thethe Dayton Cincinnati Columbus
area as a television reporter,anchor investigative reporter
but I also did public relationsand One of my clients was in the
pizza industry katsanos pizza.

Unknown (05:04):
I remember Cassanos Yes. Yeah, awesome pizza.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (05:07):
And that was one of the first things
that if you're going torepresent a client, you always
have to do a bit of what theclient is doing. And I made
pizzas. And then the mostintriguing thing was, Sam, do
you know how to dock the dough?
And I was like, No, I do not.
So I'm glad that we share anexperience there, that's a lot

(05:28):
of people don't get that. Andfor those of you who are going,
Okay, move on, move on. It's anexperience, it definitely is.
Now, with your background, youare all over the world of
transportation. So of the manyaspects, whether it be street
cars, Turnpike, fast, bustransportation, your favorite,

(05:52):
if you had to pick out aparticular area?

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (05:56):
Well, I got in this field to really do
highway design. And that is byfar my favorite mode and in
aspect of the profession. I dolike all the other modes, too.
And I think that having theunderstandings of the challenges
of those other modes helps me bea better engineer. But it really
kind of stems from, you know,when when I was growing up, when

(06:16):
I was five, my father would takeus out for drives around town
and around the countrysideoutside of town. And as most
little kids would do, as they,you know, driving around before
they had portable video games,and smartphones and other things
to keep them occupied, I didfall asleep in the car. And I'd
fell asleep, fall asleep. AndI'd wake up, you know, half hour

(06:37):
or hour later and not knowanything about where we were. So
I would ask, Hey, Dad, where arewe, and my dad being a little
bit of a tease would say, Oh,we're lost. And I would just get
scared and cry, and I would loseit. So my dad would pull over
into the parking lot. And hebrought out the map the road map

(06:58):
of the area, and he showed melook at the street sign. Look at
the map match that up. And thisis where we are, this is what
the road looks like. You seethat curve there. That's the
curve on the map taught me howto read a map. And from that
point, I was hooked. And I wouldabsorb every map I could get my
hands on. I really loved theRand McNally road atlas. And by

(07:22):
the time I was 10, I hadmemorized the entire interstate
highway system even though I hadnever driven a car at that
point. But I really liked roads,especially highways. And that is
by far my favorite aspect of oftransportation design.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (07:39):
You know, I do have to say that I
miss maps, I mean GPS is okay.
But there is just something veryethereal about pulling over
looking at a map and get outjust it's the identification
process. So I'm right there withyou, our kids today need to know
a little bit more about maps andplotting. But as your has you
have had that experience in thethe highway industry highways in

(08:03):
particular, I know that havingbeen there and been to various
public hearings, there is thepublic hearing, there is an
approval process. There aredifferent municipalities,
government agencies, you have towork with all of them through a
process. And probably I if I hadto guess one of the stickiest

(08:24):
points of that entire process isthe public. So when it comes to
the public, and they're wantingto get the pitchforks out,
because not in my backyard, orwhatever they might be wanting?
How do you deal with a publicthat sometimes does not have the
best attitude from yourexperience?

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (08:45):
Well, here's where I get to draw a
little bit from my experience inthe restaurant business, the
best way is to deal with anangry customer, or something
much the same as dealing with anangry member of the public or an
angry politician. There reallyis two rules you need to follow.
First is you can't be defensive.
I know it's it's your project,your design, you've poured hours

(09:05):
and hours and years into it. Butyou can't be defensive about it,
you have to understand there's adifferent perspective out there.
And that's okay. And then thesecond is, you just have to be
open minded and listen, peoplejust want to be heard. They want
their concerns, not onlyunderstood, but relayed back to

(09:26):
them in a way that helps themunderstand that you understand
that project their concern. And,you know, we hold public
meetings and receive publiccomment mostly to inform people
about the project, but also tosolicit comments and ideas. And
as engineers, we tend to deludeourselves at times that we know

(09:47):
what's best. That's that's adelusion. You know, sometimes
that's true, but I kid I kid,it's not always true. But
there's always learningopportunities from every public
meaning I've come across I haveI've, I've yet to have one, even
one where I only had one personshow up, I still learned
something from the public andthat public meaning. And it
really helps us make thatconnection, and especially to

(10:11):
the community. For example, Iwas working on a project in St.
Cloud, Florida, where we'rewidening an already busy
highway. And there was agentleman there was absolutely
apoplectic about this roadwaywidening and it was getting
closer to his mom's house. Andhe was screaming at the staff at

(10:31):
the meeting. And abs, I mean,just absolutely tearing into.
And so I went over to him. And Istarted asking him a few
questions, not really trying totalk to him about the projects,
asking questions about him andhimself and trying to understand
his viewpoint a little better.
And it turned out, we had aconnection, he worked with a

(10:51):
good friend of mine. So once Iable, once I was able to kind of
establish that rapport with himand calm him down and get him to
talk a little bit more civilly,we were able to really kind of
get a good dialogue between uson the finer details of the
project. And in the end, hebecame actually an advocate for
the project. And he invited usto his community meeting to

(11:14):
speak about the project, and wegot his community's buy in on
the project and move forward.
And it turned out great at theend. Now, that's not going to
happen with every project andevery irate citizen. But being
able to get to that point, evenon someone who is not going to
have their mind changed, atleast you can help have them
help understand that they'reheard and that their concerns

(11:36):
are valid, and that we're notjust dismissing them. And the
project may or may not besomething that they like, but we
can at least try to get thatinput and seek that connection
with the community.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Busi (11:51):
I think that communication process
is vital. When it even comes towhen it even comes to working
with your client or whomever theproject might be. There's
sometimes there's a differentpoint of view there consultant
versus clients view, and thatone can be critical. How do you

(12:14):
work around those?

Carnot Evans, PE (12:16):
Well, I think it's good. You know, I've had
roles where I've been on on theconsultant side, and now I'm on
a role where I'm I'm really kindof more of the owners rep client
side, I'm not exactly theclient, but I'm, I have to take
on that viewpoint. In thataspect, it is differing from the
perspective of the client wantsto see the project and they want

(12:39):
to see it move, and they want tounderstand what the challenges
are. And they want to understandhow those solutions to those
challenges get developed. On theconsultant side, the consultant
just wants the project done,done quickly moved and built.
And and we just want to moveahead. And there's two ends, I
mean, there's two ways to get tothe same answer there. But the

(13:01):
reality is, the more we can tryto understand both sides of that
coin, the better off we asengineers can operate on either
side of the house. You know,it's not all clients are out,
hell bent for profit. But, youknow, not all consultants are
held on for profit. Someconsultants are, you know, are

(13:23):
but that's okay. That's whatwe're in business to do. We are
in business to make money andthe clients are in business to
service the public. So we canfind that happy marriage between
those two ideas. It's just, youhave to sometimes look at it
from a different perspective.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Busi (13:39):
I find that in every podcast that
I'm doing with a member of theFlorida Engineering Society,
that engineers are, in many,many cases, problem solvers of
one sort or another. And whatyou're describing there is part
of that I know it I've seen it.
Engineering is a wonderfulindustry, because you are you
have a built in Problem Solvermentality to begin with. When it

(14:03):
comes to to solving thoseproblems, quality assurance,
quality control, they sound liketwo things that could be
diametrically opposed, which isimportant and which should you
strive to do?

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (14:24):
Well, they're both important, Sam,
they're absolutely bothimportant. And yes, you're
right, they sound like theyshould be the same thing and
they're just not. They're bothimportant steps to a successful
design project. And from anengineer standpoint, you really
can't skimp on either one. Whereyou know, quality assurance is

(14:47):
essentially looking at theproject holistically and making
sure that every aspect of thatdesign is incorporated. You
know, everything that should beincluded in that design is
incorporated that every thingthat should be part of that
submittal is there. And thenyou've got quality control to
make sure that all the T's arecrossed, all the i's are dotted,

(15:08):
all the math is correct, etcetera. And a lot of times, I
think we lean more on the QCside, as engineers than the QA
side. And we end up sometimesthere's projects that get
submitted, you know, everythinglooks great. You know, from a,
from a technical perspective,all your your cross sections

(15:31):
look great, all your use,details are great, except the
sheets are out of order. So youkind of missed that step. Or
things that, you know, we madeall this, this decision to
design this project and to, tophase our traffic control in a
certain way to build it. And it,the drainage trunk line got

(15:53):
designed on the wrong side ofthe road. So it was actually
built in phase three instead ofphase ones. So the design didn't
get, you know, couldn't buildthe drainage design correctly.
And those things eventually getcaught. But when they get caught
by the contractor, it'sexpensive, both for the client
as well as the firm. And it'sthose sorts of issues that make

(16:17):
it equally important, if notmore so important to kind of
lean on the QA side than on theQC side. But they're both
heavily vital to a correct andprecise design.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (16:33):
You know, ladies and gentlemen, when
I speak with guests, or wecommunicate with guest I, I
always look for a golden nugget.
And in writing the theintroduction, the Music
introduction for this, thisparticular program, I came
across the phrase that engineersdesign and innovate and
innovation is a passion forsome. And it's interesting, when

(16:54):
I was looking for a gooddefinition, that was one of the
first definitions for engineers,during that jumped off the pages
of the book to me, and it waslike, Yeah, that's exactly what
they are doing. But you had adifferent way of talking about
something that I wish I hadthought of.

Carnot Evans, PE (17:14):
It's something I've seen, as again, this is
coming from my role as aengineering consultant, and I'm
managing a program for a client.
So I get to see a lot ofdifferent design firms
approaches. And I see a lot oftimes where consultants or
design engineers will get stuckon. You know, the standards, and

(17:38):
the standards are great, but arethe standards beating the
ingenuity out of us asengineers, right. And what I
mean by that, let me start offby saying the standards we have
in Florida, and I've worked in acouple of different states, the
standards we have in Florida aregreat, they're fantastic.
They're a great tool and a greatreference to help streamline a

(17:58):
lot of the roadway designprocess. Where we run into
problems or where the standardsdon't quite fit, US particular
proud aspect of a project. And Isee in my role, I just see too
many engineers that gets stuckby that. They, they either ask
the client, or me how to designthe solution, or just say we

(18:22):
can't do it. And point to thestandards, since standard says
this, and we have to do this andthat and it doesn't work like
that. And so if there's a, youknow, sometimes, you know,
asking for direction from aclient is a valid opportunity,
and especially if there'scertain ways the client wants
things done, or how one thingyou don't want them to look. But

(18:44):
it seems like that opportunitywhere the standards don't quite
fit is an opportunity for thatengineer, to shy and come up
with an opportunity for themthat a lot of engineers just
seem to be missing. I'm notsaying everybody, I'm just you

(19:04):
know, it's it's here or there.
But it is seems to be a littlebit of a trend to me. I don't
think there's any shame at alland asking for help, whether
that's within your company to apartner consultant to the client
itself. But sometimes, you know,that seems like some of the
attitude is if the standarddoesn't work, then we can't

(19:27):
finish the design. And that'swhat frustrates me. So I love it
best. And I see this a lot towhere the engineers see an issue
and come up with a solution ormultiple solutions even better,
and recommend a solution thatfits the best and then asks, Is
this okay? And that's where I'mreally excited because that's

(19:50):
where I see the ingenuity comingin. And sometimes it means maybe
we draw from this other standardthat kind of sort of fits the
mold and sometimes it's is abrand new design. And those are
that opportunities that I thinkthat really allow us to express
our creativity and ouringenuity. And I just, I just

(20:12):
don't want us to be beaten downby the standards to the point
where we can't do that. What'sthat,

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (20:17):
for anyone in any career, when you
get to the point of it becomesrote, and you're just doing it
because let's get up, go towork, come home, go to bed
routine, you're probably wastinga lot of your time. So that
innovation is a critical factor.
And I have to stress that so Itotally agree with you on it.
One thing that we have a numberof things in common, but you and

(20:42):
I both have a commonality incommunications, whether it be
verbal or whether it is inwriting. The way you communicate
can have a tremendous impact. Ispent years learning to write as
people talk versus the textbookstyle Associated Press textbook

(21:02):
of this is a sentence this is averb, this is a transition.
People don't talk that way. Soin my particular profession, it
took a lot to unlearn the schoollessons to write, as people
communicate. But writing iscritical. How you write is

(21:23):
extremely critical when it comesto engineers.

Carnot Evans, PE, F (21:29):
Absolutely, Sam, absolutely. The the ability
to write well, as an engineer,you know, a lot of us, you know,
will say we did great on theLSAT math, but not so great on
the verbal. But that's notreally an excuse for us, because
we I actually spend way moretime writing reports and emails

(21:50):
and memos, and helping to, to doquality control on messaging to
the public and setting upscripts for presentations than I
than I do actual math actualcalculator calculations. And
it's the ability to take thatidea, put it on paper, or put it

(22:13):
into a viable memo or reportthat can be understood by a wide
range of people. And it's reallyeasy to especially in our
profession, to get bogged downinto the dry language of this
curve is this degrees and thisangle and this radius. And it's,

(22:36):
it's hard to break out that intosomething that the public is
going to digest, but there'sways that you can expand your
writing into something that canbe used, like saying an
executive summary, or a summaryposition that helps bring that
technical knowledge into a widerrange of understanding by the

(22:58):
public, by clients, by otherengineers, et cetera. So you
kind of have to write with theaudience in mind, for one, and
you know, whether that's areport that's going to get
reviewed by the client orfederal highway or federal rail
or whatever, or is that going tobe something that you're going
to eventually have to present tothe public. And you kind of have

(23:21):
to keep the, I like to writewith that in mind, so that when
I'm explaining something, I kindof try to explain it in a way
that makes sense to the mostamount of people I'm trying to
use common words and, andphrases that help understand the
topic. So use of analogies isgreat, but you don't want to get

(23:46):
too bogged down into that. Youdefinitely want to try to write
in a voice and not justeverything wrote as you as you
mentioned everything APA stylewhere it's just the facts,
ma'am, kind of Joe Friday stuff,you definitely want to add some
personality to it but you don'twant to go overboard with that
either. Because then kind oflose the the professionalism of

(24:09):
that particular report or memo.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bus (24:11):
It is an art now before i go much
further into the program, I wantto know can you come back for
another episode? I'm having agreat conversation, but I know
the clock of the wall is gonnacount me down here. Can you come
back again for another episode?

Carnot Evans, PE (24:25):
Absolutely.
I'd love to.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida (24:29):
Before I forget it, though, let's let's
talk about that surfacetransportation. That is so
important that that was reallyyou know, the the baseline for
where you are today.

Carnot Evans, PE, Florid (24:42):
You've had experience in rapid transit.
I mentioned street cars, streetcar corridors, transit station,
people movers, we're seeing apush for autonomous passenger
vehicles. Over the the theLakeland area. There's actually
I believe a test To track wherea lot of the things are being
tested before they're put outonto the turnpike. And actually,

(25:06):
I think we have autonomousvehicles with a backup driver
semis on the on the turnpikebeing tested now, but there's
also a big push for electric aswe all know, electric vehicles,
autonomous electric vehicles arecoming. There's also verta port.
And I mentioned that becauseback in our stomping grounds in
Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, Jobyaviation, is going to be

(25:30):
producing 350, electric taxis,air taxis. And that too, is
going to require chargingstations, your vantage point,

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (25:40):
can we get to that point to support
everything charging stationwise? Or how do we how do we do
that?

Carnot Evans, PE, Florid (25:48):
That's an excellent question, Sam. And,
you know, we've been looking atthat problem. I mean, people
have been looking at thatproblem for over a decade
already, even when we startedreally kind of looking at the
whole electric vehicle aspect totransportation. From what I
understand, and part of my jobwith with with CFX, is we're

(26:12):
working with a group called aspire, which is a university
consortium that's funded by theNational Science Foundation,
based out of Utah StateUniversity, where we are looking
at providing electric inductionpavement charging at highway
speed. So it's a really excitingconcept, it's, you know,

(26:36):
essentially like the, the littlepath that your phone light rests
on to charge up your phonewirelessly. But for a car moving
at highway speed, or a truckmoving at highway speed. So
we're actually going to be doinga pilot project on a new
expressway, out in Lake County,where we're going to be putting

(26:56):
in a segment of pavement thatwill allow for this wireless
charging and highway speeds. Andit's such it's an exciting
technology, but it it alsoallows us to realize some of the
limitations of of the systemoverall electrification, for the
whole country, our electric gridis just simply not up to the

(27:22):
task as it stands today.
Something to the around once thevehicle fleet if we kept the
same sort of charging apparatusthat we have today, and just
expanded more charging stations,more electric buses, etc. Once
we get to about 40%, maybe 50%of the vehicle fleet on the road
being electric vehicles, thegrid cannot support that much.

(27:44):
And that's only half at best. Sowe need more support from the
grid infrastructure, more moreelectrical generation more
electrical transmission to beable to have this all electric
dream. And from thatperspective, no, we're not ready

(28:05):
for and but we understand whatthose challenges are and how we
get to from from where we aretoday. To that future point is
going to be the critical path ofhow we really develop that next
generation of vehiclepropulsion.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida (28:24):
Please keep me posted on that, that
highway test with a built incharging system. One of my
partners in the the 5g industrywith cell towers had been
experimenting with that withTesla a number of years ago. And
it was it was just sofascinating. So I'm glad to see
that that is actually gettingout into the field. It is that

(28:45):
innovation back to that wordagain that we were talking about
earlier.

Carnot Evans, PE, Florida (28:50):
There are some there are some
stationary charge wirelesscharging out there. Already.
There's a couple a couple ofcompanies that sell it to
electric bus fleets. There's acouple of companies that are
looking to install it for peoplein parking lots for the
basically you drive your carover and it charges while you're
in the store whatever. But thiswould be this is really kind of

(29:13):
the first pilot in the UnitedStates that would use it at
highway speeds.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida B (29:19):
With rail and I know highways are
your your forte but with railhere on the east coast of
Florida where I've located. Wenow are seeing 32 trains a day
from bright line Miami toOrlando 500 yards from my office
and I can tell you mornings arevery busy. afternoons are very

(29:40):
busy. It's all it's almost thathub approach to air traffic but
it's at the rail corridor. Bigdifference in constructing
highways per mile ofconstruction cost versus rail is
right line up in your opinionbased
on cost and everything elsethat's happening. A good model

Carnot Evans, PE (30:00):
I think brightline is a good model
because they were part of theircorridor, they took over the
existing Florida East Coastrailway line, and repurpose that
and made some adjustments tothat design to allow for higher
speeds and higher speed trains.
But it wasn't really that fullspeed, European, Asian, maglev

(30:21):
train kind of thing. But, butthen they have the new corridor
between the airport and runsalong 528 out to Coco, where
they can and then built a sealedcorridor where every crossing is
grade separated crossing and,and they have fencing on both

(30:43):
sides, so you don't have animalsor pedestrians potentially
crossing into it. And they canachieve that higher speed
120 130 mile an hour runningspeed, which would be absolutely
great to run a high speed train,but in for intercity passenger
rail, I think that's the goodmodel. And that's really closer

(31:06):
to what the European or Asianmodels are for running that high
speed rail. But that does comewith a rather significant price
tag, especially with how ourdevelopment has occurred in this
country from now from from yearsago until now. So, you know,

(31:27):
building a new sealed corridoris pretty much only achievable
kind of like the brightline didalong an interstate highway,
where you already have kind of asealed corridor and just kind of
have to enhance that to, tobuild bridges, additional
bridges, and so forth. So I dothink that aspect of bright line

(31:48):
is the model for the future ofhigh speed rail in this country.

Sam Yates, Host, Flor (31:54):
excellent observation, we covered a lot of
territory. And I just want tomake sure there any other items
that you would like to touch onbefore we wrap the program up
today?

Carnot Evans, PE (32:06):
Not today. But again, I'd be happy to come on
and talk about things that arefuture podcasts, this has been a
great conversation.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (32:15):
And ladies and gentlemen, I'm going
to hold him to that because, youknow, again, for our audio
listeners, you can't see theexpressions and and as you were
saying that the smile wasbeginning to spread. And it's
like I know you have more thatwe could talk about. So rest
assured that we are going tohave you back and I want to

(32:36):
thank you very much. You are thechair of the Florida
professional engineers inindustry segment. And I get that
right? That's correct. Yes. Andthat is is important because it
says that you are the leadingedge of the industry and a lot

(32:56):
of people. Hopefully, as we domore of these programs will
begin to understand that thereis not a cookie cutter mold for
engineering engineers do a lotof things. And they make life
better for us.

Carnot Evans, PE (33:12):
You flatter me Sam. Thank you.

Sam Yates, Host, Florida Bu (33:14):
All right. I'm gonna look forward to
that. And that's going to wrapup this edition of the Florida
Engineering Society podcast,Engineering Florida. I'm your
host, Sam Yates. And until ournext episode, have a great day,
everybody.

Sam Yates (33:32):
Thanks for listening to another informative episode
of the Engineering Floridapodcast. Our goal is to help
educate and inform everyone wholistens to our podcast about our
members and topics of interestto the Florida Engineering
Society. On behalf of theFlorida Engineering Society, and

(33:53):
the Engineering Florida podcast,have a great day everybody