#68 Thinking About Getting Your Own Authority? The Realities of Running a Trucking Company

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Wilson (00:06):
So you're thinking about starting a trucking
company.
Maybe you're tired of giving upa chunk of your paycheck to the
mega carriers, or maybe you'rejust ready to call the shots and
start booking your own freight.
But before you start fillingout paperwork for your own
authority, let's get real.
Owning a trucking company isn'tfor everyone.
There are plenty of benefits tobeing a company driver, just

(00:29):
like there are plenty of perksto being an owner-operator or
even going fully independent.
This episode is all aboutgiving you the clarity you need
to make the best decision foryou and your lifestyle.
Hey y'all, I'm Brian Wilson,your old hand with a new plan,
and this is Enjoying Life.
Otr Today, cindy Tunstall andKyle Hutchinson, both

(00:51):
experienced trucking companyowners, sit down to break down
the real steps to running anindependent trucking company.
Whether you're just thinkingabout getting your old MC
authority or already runningtrucks, this episode is packed
with insight on what works, whatdoesn't and what they both wish
they'd known sooner.

Cindy Tunstall (01:13):
Welcome back to Enjoy Life OTR.
My name is Cindy Tunsell andI'm your host, and we have a
great guest today.
We are going to be talkingabout the steps and what it
takes to get started in thefreight transportation industry
and specifically about how tostart a trucking business and
when to know when you're readyto get your own MC authority and
go out on your own.

(01:33):
And there's a lot of stepsinvolved and I knew I couldn't
cover it all on my own, so Iinvited a guest.
He has his own successfultrucking company.
His name is Kyle Hutchison andwe are going to go through all
the steps for you.
So welcome to the show, kyle.

Kyle Hutchinson (01:47):
Hi Cindy, how are you doing Beth?

I'm so excited for this conversation.
So I know you and I have somesimilar ideas about things and
some differing ways that we dothings, so I'm excited for our
audience to get to hear from you.
Before we jump into the nutsand bolts about starting a
trucking company, why don't yougive our audience a little bit
of a background about your rolein the industry and how you got
started in trucking and you knowwhat kind of freight you're

(02:12):
running, all that kind of goodstuff, just so they can get to
know you.

Oh, no problem, I started around 2016,.
I believe I worked two jobswhen I was 18, saved up enough
money, bought my first truck,started driving when I was 21.
I was leased out as an ownerfor two years.
Then I went and started my ownauthority because I was tired of
somebody taking 20% from me.

(02:37):
I felt like they were robbingme a little bit.
Then, on my peak, I had six ofmy own trucks and two of our
operators, and then a couple ofunfortunate events happened and
now I'm just down to one truck Ihaul box freight in Midwest
East Coast and I kind of just goahead and do my own thing and

(02:58):
it works out pretty good.

Well, I love your story.
Mine's kind of similar.
I started in 2020.
And so, yes, I am a COVIDtrucking baby.
I started with my own authority, but I drive a box truck and I
was new to the industry myself.
I did a lot of research and Ihad some mentors that were
helping me get started.
So I had some good, wisecounsel and did lots of research

(03:22):
, but I just jumped right in.
I've never worked for anothercompany and I kind of like that,
but it's not for everybody.
But I often have people ask meabout starting their own
trucking company.
Either they're a company driveror they actually own their own
truck and, like you were, theywere leased onto a mega carrier

(03:42):
and you know they're paying.
You know sort of up to 30%.
You know fees to be able tolease on, which I think when
freight is thriving, thatprobably is very doable.
But in a market like this, Ioften wonder how you know
drivers and owner operators aregetting paid.
You know getting by payingthose kind of extravagant fees

(04:04):
and I think there are somebenefits to doing it that way,
but it also presents somechallenges.
If somebody asks you aboutstarting a trucking company, I
want to pick your brain and seewhat kind of advice that you
would give somebody I know.
Myself.
I almost always say you know,don't do it unless you have

(04:24):
freight lined up.
And it's a terrible time to doit right now because trucking is
really struggling and I knowyou have some different opinions
about your advice.
If somebody asks you thatquestion about the timing, what
would you say to that?

if somebody's interested in making the leap
right now, Well, that makes alittle bit more sense about you
way.
You said because you came intotrucking during covid, during
almost all-time high rates.
Um, I came in.
It was I'm not gonna say thebottom, but I think I started.
I was getting a dollar 78 amile and I was making it work.

(04:58):
So to me the best time gettinginto trucking is when the rates
are not at an all-time high.
If you can operate a successfultrucking company when you're
getting normal to low rates whenit starts to boom, you'll
really be able to save moneyback and then expand your
business.

It is a challenging time and I think
you're right If you have a good,solid business plan.
A part of that to me is havingfreight lined up, so that's kind
of why I make that littledisclaimer If you've got freight
lined up, you've got a goodplan.
You know you can make it work.
And some people are hustlersand some people not so much.
So what advice do you give forstarting out Like you want to
write that business plan and youwant to start preparing?

(05:39):
You know, maybe we're talkingto a company driver and it's
their dream to be independent,own their own truck and, you
know, have their own authority.
Where does somebody begin towriting a good solid business
plan.

So you know that you're in a good position
to succeed from the start.
Well, I would say the firstthing you'd want to do is to
know where you're at in thecountry and where you're willing
to go.
So let's say you're in Columbus, ohio, and you only wanted to
go.
You wanted to stay in Ohio orIllinois or Indiana and you
didn't want to go east.
Or you didn't want to go toChicago, you didn't want to do
major cities.

(06:16):
You would have to base yourcost per mile around the rates
that you could get in thoselanes and as long as you can do
that, you're going to be fine.
But if your cost per mile,let's say, was $1.85 a mile, but
your average line haul is onlygoing to be average at $2.05,
you're not going to be verysuccessful in that.

(06:37):
So sometimes being independentmeans you have to go where
nobody else wants to go, becausethat's where you can make the
money to actually succeed.

Well, I wonder, wonder too, even back to the
very beginning of the basics.
I mean, do you need toestablish what type of um
freight you're going to berunning, like reefer, flatbed,
drive-in?
I mean, are those importantdecisions to be making initially
?
And um, you know, because youhave to think about equipment
and the cost, and um, even thinkabout what.
You know how to run.
You know, like I wouldn't knowhow to run a reefer obviously I
haven't done that or a flatbed,you know I've been running a box
truck.
So I mean there's a lot tolearn in the different types of

(07:13):
industries.
Is that going to be superimportant in the initial
planning?

I'd say that would be selective to where
you're at.
So a lot of areas in thecountry in my opinion have good
freight for pretty much anythingyou want.
And there's certain areas likeif I was in Texas I wouldn't run
van, I would want to run areefer or flatbed.
And same way if I was inCalifornia I would want to run a
reefer trailer, pretty much.
Only it depends on where you'reat.

(07:40):
A lot of markets have a lot ofleeway for a lot of different
types of equipment.
They all have their own perksto it.
You know, van is a little bitcheaper but you'll have more
access to more loads.
Refer you have a lot of waitingtime but it pays a little bit
more.
Slot bed you have a lot ofmanual labor but it tends to pay

(08:01):
a little bit more than van, butnot as much as refer.
So it kind of really depends onwhere you're at and what you
want to do.
You can make pretty muchanything work in any area if
you're willing to go to placesthat have the freight to make
the money.
That's how I look at it.

Well, that's great insight.
How would somebody educatethemselves about the regions
where they're wanting to run?
How would you find thatinformation?
Where would be a good place forthem to look?

I would start looking at load boards and I
would search by van, flatbed andreefer, depending on where I
was at, and see how manyoutbound loads you have in
certain areas.
And then, in those areas thatyou're taking the outbound to,
you want to see how many inboundloads are coming from that area
back to where you're at and sothat way you know.
Like again, I'm in Indiana, soif I run out east of the flatbed

(08:54):
there's not a lot of loads outeast of the flatbed.
Now that's not saying Icouldn't do that, but I'd have
to get a lot more of my outboundto make it worth it because I'd
be deadheading a lot backoutbound to make it worth it
because I'd be deadheading a lotback.
So it's really like if you goto the load board you shouldn't
be able to see in your areathere's, like you know, supposed
to for seven days there's athousand van loads and 800

(09:17):
reefer loads and 37 flatbedloads.
Well, you probably wouldn'twant to haul flatbed out of
there.
That's how I would look.

That's great information.
I think that you made a goodpoint too about checking out.
You know, like you're inIndiana, I think that you know
Midwest is a great area to runfreight and there are lots of
options going out there.
But you know, say you're, youknow, looking at a load going
into Florida and that's, youknow, getting all you know
appears to be getting all thisgreat money.
But if you don't do that nextstep of what's it like to get

(09:43):
out of Florida, you know whereyou're only getting a dollar.
Or you know if sometimes you'renot getting a dollar getting
out of Florida, so you knowthey're going to look at a
deadhead to get out of there.
So that rate going into Floridaneeds to be paying to
accommodate the rate getting out.
So there's a lot of researchthat needs to be done.

A lot of research.
Yes, yes, yes.
I have come out of Florida for90 cents a mile many times in my
career and that's why I don'trun to Florida anymore.

Yeah, I only go in if I'm getting a really good
rate going in, because it'srough getting out.
And then just availability thesheer volume I'm afraid that's
coming out of there is just astruggle.
We're such a consumer.
Okay, so let's talk about howto set up a business plan.
So they've done some researchabout the types of freight that

(10:33):
they want to run.
They have an idea.
Maybe they have experiencerunning flatbeds, so they're
going to go with that or reeferor whatever, and they have a
decision on that type of freight.
Actually, putting down on paperthe expenses that they need to
save for and plan for.
Can we maybe rattle off some ofthose expenses for somebody so
that in case there's things thatthey're not maybe haven't

(10:54):
considered?

Oh, of course you have tolls.
You have your IFTA stickersthat's done every quarter.
You have your license plates,your fuel, your maintenance, oh,
your log books.
I don't know.
Cindy, can you think ofanything else to add on top of
that?

Well, I would say your regular maintenance,
but also, I would say a savingsfund for emergencies, because in
case you have a big repair onthe truck or you have regular
freight you're running and theyhave an emergency and they have
to shut down the factory for theweek or you know.
So just a fund set aside, youknow, for just in case, and I

(11:34):
think that needs to be a prettysignificant number.
What number would you say wouldbe a good cushion to have in
savings before you get started?

So I like to look at it.
This is how I do it myself.
The most expensive thing to fixin your truck is going to be an
engine, and so, depending onwhat truck you get, that's going
to depend on how much it costsfor a shop to do an overhaul on
your engine.
So anywhere between $25,000 and$35,000 is what I like to keep
in my maintenance fund at alltimes, and I wouldn't even

(12:04):
consider getting into my owntrucking company or starting my
own business without that in thebank.

Well, that's a similar number.
I say I used to say $30,000 forthat same reason and I say
either you have the cash on handor you have a really good
available credit and so that youhave access to funding if you
have to do something major likethat.
Also to think about if yourtruck is being repaired, you
have the cost of the truck beingrepaired, but then you also
have that downtime where you'renot earning any income and you

(12:34):
know your truck payment is stilldue, your insurance payment is
still due and all these otheryou know little subscriptions
that nickel and dime you todeath.
You know all of those thingsare still coming due even though
you're not earning income.
So that time when the truck isdown, that eats away that
$30,000 super quick.

I think that if you get into this, you really
need to be set up financially,because a lot of things can
happen in trucking and you couldbuy a brand new truck and still
have issues with it in thefirst month you have it.
I had that happen to me.
I bought a new one in 2016 andit was in the shop for two weeks
on the first month, so youcan't really rely on that.

(13:13):
I would say you need a sixmonths emergency fund for your
business, and that includes yourpayroll, your license plates,
your IFTA, your insurance, andthen you also need a maintenance
fund on top of that and thatway, if anything happened to you
and you were broke down orCOVID happened a lot of times
during COVID, people were goingout of business because there

(13:34):
was no freight.
So if you had a six-monthemergency fund, you can pay
yourself for six months and makesure you paid all the bills for
your company as well.

So, with having said all that, you know, you
have somebody come to you that'sa company driver and say you
know they're earning 60 cents amile, you know.
And they don't.
You know they're, you know, ona dedicated lane.
They don't mind, they're stillgetting home time when they want
it.
What's your advice to somebodyin that situation, with all
these expenses that you justsaid?
Do you advise somebody to makethat leap or just say what do

(14:05):
you say when somebody's wantingto make the change?

I have one question why?
I want to know why they want tomake the change.
If they want to make it formore money, then there's only
one way that you're going tomake more money and you have to
come in with.
You have to have your savingsfund, you have to have your
maintenance fund, you have tohave your emergency fund and you
have to have your savings fund,you have to have your
maintenance fund, you have tohave your emergency fund and you
have to have paid off equipmentand you can weather any storm

(14:30):
with that setup right there.
If that's what you want to dois to come in to make more money
then I would say if you hadthat setup, you had a reliable
truck and a trailer that fit theregion you were in I would tell

(14:53):
them to go for it.
If they came in and said theywanted more freedom, I would
tell them to find a differenttrucking company that is more
willing to accommodate them.
When I had drivers, I was reallygood about when they said, hey,
I need to be home for the 17thfor a doctor's appointment.
Okay, no problem.
Hey, I got to take two weeksoff for this.
Hey, I get my daughter everyother weekend.
So I want to be home for fivedays for that weekend, but I'll
run the rest of the time.
And you really have to find acompany that's accommodating to

(15:13):
your needs and what you want.
I had one driver.
He wanted to stay out for threemonths at a time and come back
for one month.
That's great.
I had another driver.
He only wanted to run local.
That that's great.
I had another driver.
He only wanted to run local.
That wasn't a problem with me.
I got a local setup for him andhe was home every night.
And if you're working with acompany and they may pay you
really well but it doesn't fityour schedule, there's hundreds

(15:35):
of thousands of companies outthere that might have a schedule
that will fit you better.

I think that's good advice.
I really like that.
It's like that in itself.
More freedom is not that it's abig thing to take on a short
company no-transcript about that, because I don't think it's

(16:17):
anybody's business but justspeak kind of generally.
How do you go about figuringout your cost per mile when we
have fluctuations in certainthings like our?
You know our preventivemaintenance is going to vary
depending on how many miles thatwe ran that month.
Or you know our fuel cost isobviously going to fluctuate
depending on where we ran andyou know how many miles we put

(16:39):
on the truck.
So how does somebody go aboutcoming up to that figure of what
their cost per mile is so thatthey, when they're negotiating,
they have a place to start?

The personal way I like to do it is I like to
use a year average.
So the end of the year for me,my license plates are due, my
fourth quarter is due and then Istart working on my taxes.
So I'll add up all my miles formy license plate and then I
already have all my fuel andmaintenance and poles and ISTA

(17:10):
and all that already added upfor my taxes.
And that's how I come up withmy numbers.
That way I have a good yearaverage of whatever the
maintenance was and that changesevery year because you're going
to have different expenses.
You might rebuild the motor oneyear, have to put a rear end in
, or you might get lucky andhave a couple years that nothing
goes wrong.
But if you are just starting out, a good number I would say to

(17:36):
use if you have a truck andtrailer payment is $2 a mile
because you have to includepaying yourself.
That's probably on the higherside but I would say that would
be a realistic number to shootfor.
So that way you know thatyou're going to be able to make
all your minimums and keep yourequipment well-maintained and to
pay yourself.

(17:56):
I just wanted to add that $2 amile.
I was saying you can use thatfor the first 30 days and then
you can readjust from there.
After that, then you can go offa month average and then until
you get to the full year.

And I would say to put that to paper, you know
somebody has they're going to.
Because I did this when Istarted I thought you know what
do I have to earn to make thisprofitable?
And you know, I was going tohave a truck payment, I was
going to have insurance, I knewsome things were going to be
fixed and I knew, kind of Icould guesstimate how much you
know miles per gallon my truckwas getting.
So I was guessing.
You know, I would put a coupleof different scenarios together.
You know, say I'm getting, youknow, 600 miles a day or 500

(18:39):
miles a day and I would just runsome different numbers.
Or if I was going to run local,you know I was looking at all
the scenarios about what youknow, I would put it to paper
and say if this was the kind oftrade I was running, I was doing
local, regional, over the road,and I was getting these miles
or these miles, I would just putall the scenarios on paper to
see what is it going to take forme to you know, because then if

(19:00):
I have the miles that I'm goingto run I know the gas mileage,
the fuel you know that my truckis getting I can make an
estimate of how much I'm goingto pay per full.
So I just had a big range ofyou know options and I thought,
you know, I think I can makethis work.
So, and then it was still scary.
I was like I had to go and doit.
And you know it's tough whenyou have a brand new authority,

(19:21):
because you know brokers don'twant to run with a brand new
authority, especially nowbecause there's so much fraud in
the industry and they don'tknow if you're trustworthy or
not, if you really are actuallygoing to deliver their freight
like you say you're going to do.
So the fraud makes it reallydifficult for a brand new
authority.
How would you advise somebody?
You know how do you find loadsand what's the way to get

(19:43):
started and start to build somerelationships and network that
can actually sustain yourbusiness.

When I first got started with my authority I
kind of had a cheesy gimmick Iwould use.
I would go into the shippersand receivers and I would say
here's my rate, I guaranteedelivery or you don't pay.
Normally, the greed in theshipper's eyes, you can see it
will take over and they will atleast try you out.

Well, a couple of things I love about that, for
one, that you're going into ashipper.
So you didn't say I'm just startcalling loads on the load board
, because I think that's themost challenging situation and I
think that can work and Isurely did that.
But I think so many peopledon't realize that.
Just go into.
You don't have to have a broker.
You can go in and meet thoseshippers and I'm sure those
shippers when they met you, youhave a confidence in your

(20:37):
ability, you know, and that'svery, that's very appealing to a
shipper because their biggestconcern is that their freight's
not going to be delivered.
When you say it's going to bedelivered, and then also you
went in and you made animpression, you know, on that
shipper.
You know you're aggressive,you're very assertive, which you
know.
I I'm assertive as well.
So I mean, I think that thatgoes a long way.
I don't think people understandthe value of that level of

(21:01):
communication and confidence andsaying how much I'm going to,
I'm going to do this for you,and you're looking them in the
eye and you're going to say giveme a shot, and people, people
will say yes.

Brian Wilson (21:16):
You know, something Kyle said really stuck
out for me how, when he walkedstraight into shippers and made
his pitch with confidence thatright there, that's gold man.
We talked last week about howconfidence and making that first
offer can put you in control ofa negotiation.
By the way, if you missed thatepisode, go check it out, it's

(21:37):
worth it.
But here's the deal.
If you're stepping out on yourown, you got to get comfortable
with talking numbers, settingexpectations and just flat
getting up and walking out whena deal doesn't serve you right.
No one's handing out goldentickets in this trucking
business.
You got to go after what you'reworth.
All right, guys.
Back to Cindy and Kyle.

Well, I will add that when you first start
for the first six months to ayear, you're going to be hauling
a lot cheaper than somebodywho's been around for five years
, in my opinion.
So you really need to know that.

(22:27):
It starts off slower, but themore your company ages, the more
pull you will have talking toshippers and receivers and
brokers as well.
Cards are very important andhave a very good use.
You just got to makerelationships with a few brokers
.
You don't need all of them, youjust need a couple of them in
your lanes.

that's in your corner for you.
Yeah, I agree, I'm a big fan ofbrokers and I still run with
brokers.
I just don't do it as much as Ionce did, but I'm still a big
fan of brokers and I still runwith brokers.
I just don't do it as much as Ionce did, but I'm still a big
fan.
I think they do have, you know,especially going into an area
that you know I get a highpaying load.
You know, say, to Florida, Iget a really high paying load
into Florida.
I don't have any connectionsthere because it's so rare that
I go into Florida, but this is ahigh paying load I can't not go

(23:00):
.
You know I'm going to, I'm goingto take this load.
So, um, you know I, I'm goingto rely on, you know, brokers to
help me get out of that city orthat location where I don't.
It's a place where I don'tusually run and, um, I, you know
I, I think that they're a it'sa great partnership to me.
I feel like I'm doing a servicefor them.
They're doing a service for me,doing all've made hundreds and

(23:22):
hundreds of calls to me tosecure these relationships with
shippers.
So I'm happy to work with them.
I feel like they're apartnership, so I don't have any
problems with brokers.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with you.
I mean, they provide a servicethat we do need.
Just don't rely on them 100%and don't only rely on one
broker.

Just a minute before I started really
networking with direct shippersright away and if I look back on
my time, I wish I had done thatyears ago.
I didn't have the confidence todo it, honestly, and I wasn't
sure.
Even in the early on, I wasn'tsure what rates I could promise
them, or I didn't know whateverybody else was earning.
I didn't know where the placeswere to go and I also didn't

(24:05):
know how to check credit.
So I do want to talk about that.
How do you know if a shipper isgoing to pay?
So I think that's an importantthing for us to discuss.
But so I look back on that.
I relied heavily on brokers inthe beginning and I really made
sure every conversation that Ihad I was trying to make a good
impression so that that person,anytime there was a load that
would fit in my truck and theywere in my area I wanted them to

(24:28):
think of me.
You know, I just looked atevery opportunity and every
conversation as an opportunityto network and to build
relationships that could, youknow, turn into more freight.
So even if people like I wasbidding on loads and things that
I, you know, I got, I lost abid or I would always have it in
the back of my head, you know,hey, maybe we can do the next
one.
Or, you know, I just did a showin negotiation.

(24:49):
I talked with some brokers andyou know, last week's episode
was great and lots of reallygreat tips for negotiating.
But I always saw that need tobuild relationships and network.
And then, everywhere I would go, I would want to.
You know, I was tellingeverybody that I had a trucking
company and people would just,you know, randomly tell me, hey,
do you know someone says inshipping he has a warehouse over

(25:10):
there and blah, blah, blah, andI was like I did not know that.
I will be giving them a call.

I had a driver who was an auto operator, who
wanted to be self-dispatched,and he didn't know you could
negotiate rates.
He didn't know you couldnegotiate anything.
And it's like once I realizedthat I'm like okay, that thought
never crossed my mind, thatpeople didn't know how to
negotiate with a broker.

Even if you've been running as an
owner-operator and I didn't knowthis, but my friends that have
run as owner-operators with megacarriers they have a load board
up there and they're notnegotiating that you know those
rates are fixed and they'll say,yes, I'll take that load to
Utah or no, I will not take thatone.
I'm going to go to upper state,new York, you know, and they're
just picking the rate that's onthere.
So I think, if that has beenyour background, I think that

(25:59):
when you, you know, see, and youget on a load board as a you
know, independent, you see thatposted rate.
There's no reason for you toknow any differently that that's
negotiable.
So I don't think that'suncommon.
I've heard other people saythat like it's.
You know when the load isposted, they act like that's it.
You know I'm like the postedrate, that's that's.

(26:20):
Just ignore that.
So that means nothing.

Yeah, you call and tell them you're raped.

That was helpful information.
I think that's a common mistakethat new owners make.

Everything is a negotiation and the law
normally favors a truckingcompany versus a brokerage.
Industry standard is a joketerm.
That's not real.
There's no industry standard onanything.
It's what you deem as a fairand reasonable charge as a
trucking company.
Again, when a broker saysthat's the industry standard, I

(26:53):
hate that term so much becausethey always want to use it for
layover or detention pay andit's like I wish you guys.
People believe that and that'snot what you should be getting.
You should be getting your dayrate.
And if you don't get your dayrate, I've been blackballed by
two or three brokerages becausethey wanted me to sit and wait

(27:13):
for three days for $150 a dayand I just laughed at them and I
wouldn't put that freightdirectly onto a crosstalk in
their name and I went on aboutmy life.

For real, you did that.

Yeah, Wow, I love that there's.
No, I want this much.
Well, we can't pay that.
I'm like did I mess up?
No, Did you mess up?
You're saying you didn't?
So it had to be the other partythat messed up and they're the
ones paying for it anyway.
So one's paying for it anyway,so I'm not going to save you

(27:46):
$150 a day.
And then they called the copson me and then they came out and
I explained the situation and Iused masks to the officer to
explain why I was charging thismuch.
And he's like well, you're here, why don't they just unload you
?
I'm like that's exactly mypoint.
And they're like okay, well,you have a good day, sir.
I'm like thank you, Iappreciate that.

So what happened ?
Any repercussions for doingthat?
I mean, did you get freightguarded?
Did you get paid for the load?
Any repercussions?

Well, I got paid after like six months of
fighting.
I got a freight guard but Ifought it and I won because I
didn't do anything wrong.
They have to pay you for thatload because you completed your
contract.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And.

I learned this was that?

is that a problem?
Or you already haverelationships with brokers?

it wasn't a big deal um, it took a while to get
cleared up, but I already hadrelationships with brokers.
And these brokers I talk to andthey're like it's laughable,
because when I tell them I want$11.60 a day as my layover,
they're like okay, cool.
Because when I tell them I want$11.60 a day as my layover,
they're like okay, cool, noproblem, send over.
Thanks, buddy, appreciate it.
Or there's always the option ofunloading me today, and that's

(28:52):
normally the goal that I try togo for.
So this happened like I'mtelling you something that
happened like three months ago.
Three months ago I wasdelivering.
I picked up out of Chicago andI was delivering.
I picked up out of Chicago andI was delivering to upstate New
York at Johnstown.
There's a Walmart DC there,right, and it was two-day
delivery.
So I picked it up.
I had two days to make it outthere.
It was 800-something miles andwhen I got out there, they typed

(29:15):
my number and said, yeah, thisnumber's no good, your
appointment number.
So I'm like, oh, okay.
So I went out to the parking lot, I called the broker.
I'm like, hey, look, this iswhat's going on.
I need a new deliveryappointment.
I need to get unloaded today.
I have other things to do andthey're like okay, well, hang on
, it's kind of something simple,we'll get back with you.
Like an hour later I called themback.

(29:35):
I'm like, hey, what's going on?
I need to crosstalk and they'rehere on around and never ask
for layover.
All we need to make thempropose layover to you.
That's a better negotiationtactic because it helps you get
what you want.
And so eventually they broughtup layover and I'm like I don't

(29:57):
want to wait here, I wantunloaded.
But if I have to wait here, I'mgoing to give you my rate, but
you're not going to like it.
And I told them I wanted $11.68.
And they were appalled.
They're like well, the industrystandard says $250 a day.
We might be able to do $400 aday.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'mgoing to tell you right now that
if you don't have me a rate conor a crosstalk or a new

(30:19):
delivery appointment for todayand the next hour, I'm going to
go put this into a cross-stock.
Or if I can't find across-stock, I'm just not going
to deliver this load until youpay me.
And we fought back and forthand about 30 minutes later I had
a new delivery appointment andI got unloaded at Walmart that
day.

Wow yeah.

I took a ride.

How has that worked for you?
I mean, is that a one-off thingor this has been a thing that's
been proven to be working foryou on a regular no?

this works Okay , and they will say that you
can't do that and they'llthreaten to call the cops on you
.
Or again, they will call thecops on you, but the cops can't
do anything, because the bill oflading is basically a contract
saying that this freight isyours.
You are in possession of thisfreight, it is on your truck.
So listen, I'm sorry, officer,I'm here to unload right now.

(31:12):
Here's my rate, john See, whereit says I'm supposed to be here
this time to unload.
So they don't want to unload me.
How am I holding it hostage?
I want to give them theirfreight.
I'm just not going to wait forthree days for free.
That's not how this situationworks.
I love it.
And again you will get.
Brokers will never work withyou again, but if they're a

(31:36):
broker that acts like that, youdon't want to work with them
anyways.

Yeah, I love this and I can tell this comes
from experience.
You're at a place where youhave relationships with people
that you count on, so you're notdependent on the load board, so
you have a little bit moreleeway than somebody that was a
brand new authority, would yousay.
That's true.

If you were brand new and especially because
you don't know what it's liketo run a trucking company,
because when you were anindependent, you're not a truck
driver, you were a businessowner and you don't have the
experience to run that business.
So if you were running for abroker that you haul three loads
a week for, you don't want todo this to him because that's
your bread and butter.
So you want to do this to therandom one-off.
You get a message, you get anemail, they call you and you say

(32:24):
yeah, I'm 20 minutes away frompickup dude, this is my rate
$3,300.
Let's go.
And they're like okay, noproblem, Send it over.
You got to be there in the nexthour to pick it up.
These are the brokers that youwant to put to the ringer and
get every dime that you're worth, Because, again, it's a give
and take with people that youknow, even your shippers.
I probably wouldn't charge oneof my shippers $11.68 a day

(32:45):
layover, but I'm definitelygoing to charge more than the
industry standard.

Yeah, and those people when you have that
relationship, they're willing todo that also.
You, yeah, and those peoplewhen you have that relationship,
they're willing to do that also.
You know they understand thatyou're running a business.

Those are good people and those relationships
are the best and an easy way toexplain it to a broker of why
you want what you want is well,listen, I hauled this 800-mile
load for you and you paid me$3,200, and it took me two days
to do it.
So that's saying my truck isworth $1,600 a day.
So I'm giving you like 33% offand 30% off, charging you $1,168

(33:26):
, which is my fuel andmaintenance.
So if my truck is worth $1,600a day to bring this load out
here, why isn't it worth $1,168a day to wait when somebody else
screwed up, and not me?

Well, the other thing, too, I'll use as a
negotiation.
It's like you're costing me mynext load, my next load, for the
rate, and I'll say the samething you paid me this, they're
paying me that.
Like I've always established,this is what the value for my
truck is.
So, along that same line,that's strong.

And when you're dealing with carrier, 411, just
make sure the first thing youdo is send it's not a cease and
desist letter, but you send aletter to the broker or the
brokerage and tell them stopdoing this, you're hurting my
business, all this other stuffand get a lawyer involved.

(34:13):
You should have a lawyer onretainer if you run a business
because you're going to get intoan accident, somebody's going
to sue you.
It's a good idea.
And if he knows even theletterhead of a lawyer sending
to a brokerage office when youhave a carrier 411 report on
there, it goes a long way.

Yeah, that's good advice.
You have to protect yourselfbecause a lot of crazy shit
happens in your life.

There is a lot of crazy stuff that happens and
there's a lot that goes into itand it takes a long time to
fight it and it's just better ifyou don't get one.

(35:01):
But sometimes you gotta do whatyou gotta do.
You gotta make a stand, brokerswill walk in.
That is what I didn't know whenI first started.
That I wish I knew was thatindustry standard meant nothing,
because I was just like cool,at least I'm getting something
to sit here, you know.
So I'm glad that eventually Ilearned that oh, that's a fair

(35:21):
deal, that's a made-up number,you know.

Well, and you know, I think one thing I hear
when talking with you it's likeyou know the importance of
having a mentor and really doingyour own research about what
the laws are, the regulations.
There's so much that's in placeto protect us as carriers and
you know we need to beknowledgeable about that.
So take your time to study andget familiar with the

(35:45):
regulations.
But even beyond that, I think,to have a mentor, so somebody
that you can trust, that's goingto be able to give you some
real straightforward you knowwisdom about how to handle
situations because they've doneit and they've been there and
they know how things work.
So get a mentor.

Yeah, I would agree with that.
Yeah, that's good.

I have two things for myself what advice I
would give.
I guess I think I wish I hadknown about that trend lines
earlier on, when I discoveredthat it's a free website, that
DAT trend lines, and it'll tellyou where the average rate that
the different types of trucksare getting in the different

(36:32):
regions.
I think I would have liked tohave known that earlier.
That would have been helpful insetting up my planning about
what their rates were, because Iwas kind of just guessing and
going based on what I washearing from other drivers.
But I like that that statisticis out there and you can look
and say can I really make thatwork?
And those are averages.
So that means I would take thatto mean okay, yeah, some people

(36:55):
are making more than that, andthen there's people that are
making less than that.
So, but it was a good place tostart.
I think it would have given mea little bit more confidence
early on.
And I would also tell peopleyou know, don't get frustrated
that it's tough in the beginning, because it's going to be tough
in the beginning as a newtrucking company and you're
going to get a lot of rejection,you're going to get a lot of

(37:15):
people turned down, but don't.
Don't just take no because,like Kyle said, everything is
negotiable.
But the bottom line is thatshippers want to get their
product delivered on time whenyou say that you're going to
deliver it and that doesn'talways happen.
So if you can say, trust me,you know I'm going to do a good
job for you and my rate isreasonable.

(37:36):
I know that I'm new, but I'vegot a, I've got references and,
especially if you've been acompany driver, you should have
industry references that you canshare and just speak boldly
about yourself and and justtrust, like kind of understand
what their pain points are andthen be able to speak boldly to
what those are, cause in thebeginning I didn't know what
their pain points were.
You know my pain points werelike I'm going to be able to pay
my tax payment this month andnext month and, you know, pay

(37:58):
myself a salary.
I wasn't sure what all thosethings were, but I was just
focused on trying to make themoney.
But when I started to realizethat you know they have their
own set of concerns about what'sgoing to happen with this load
and I began to just talk withreal confidence that listen,
give me a shot, I'm going to doa good job for you, and just a
little bit of rapport building.
During those conversations itwas surprising to me how many

(38:21):
people would give me a shot andyou know, just give me a chance
to get in there and hustle andmake some money.
And then, after I delivered aload, I didn't do this in the
beginning, but I realized prettyquickly.
You know, there's certainbrokers that I want to keep

(38:42):
working with, so I would justfollow up and I started to tell
them where I would.
You know where my truck wasgoing to be.
Like I would say, hey, I'mgoing to be in Chicago on
Thursday.
Keep me in mind if you haveanything coming out of there.
I still had two days to getthere, so I had given them a
warning that I was headed thatway and that was really helpful.
So do you post your truck onthe DAT, load boards and things
to let brokers know that yourtruck is available?

(39:02):
Do you do that?

I have a couple things to talk and to say about
DAT.
Dat is a tool for brokers, nottruck drivers.
Don't believe their trend lines.
They're not accurate at all andI know I do not post my truck
anywhere because that helpsshoot the rates down most of the
time in high volume areas.

Okay, I have some.
I agree with that on one hand,and then on the other I don't.
I also I think early on Imight've been concerned about
that, but I still feel like nowthat I have an ability to
negotiate and being like that'sjust a place for me to look at
what's happening, but it doesn'tmean that's what it's going to
be.
You kind of have to take itwith a grain of salt.

(39:46):
You know that may be theaverage that they're booking and
that they're seeing there, butit doesn't mean that that's not
all that's available.
So if it's saying that theaverage for that lane is paying,
you know, $2.30, that doesn'tmean that's what I have to offer
or I have to accept.
I still have to count on myability to negotiate and bring
that rate up.
So I think it's just a piece ofinformation.

(40:06):
I don't think it's the end.
All be all About posting thetruck.
I go back and forth about this.
Honestly, I think there may besome truth to the fact that it
might affect the rates in thatarea.
But I've had so many timeswhere I'll post my truck and one
of my favorite brokers willcall me with a load before they
posted it on there because theysaw me on there.

(40:28):
So when that had happened forme a couple of times, I started
going One of my brokers that Iwork with across the region to
be able to know I was in theirarea and it actually served me
really well and I continue to dothat.
My problem that I have with itmost recently really this past
year is why it's not posting mytruck is that dispatchers now

(40:49):
have access to DAT so they canget on there and they just start
blowing up your phone.
Hey, so they can get on thereand they can.
They just start blowing up yourphone.
Hey, I see you've got an emptytruck in Atlanta and I'm like
you know who are you and Ialways say what's your MC number
?
And they go I don't have an MCnumber, I'm actually a
dispatcher, you know, but myphone will blow up with those
calls.
So that's the reason for me thatI stopped posting my truck, but

(41:12):
I still I'll post.
You know I'll do email blastsand tell everybody hey, I'm
going to be in Atlanta onThursday, let me know if you see
anything that works in my truck.
And because I just have onetruck.
So I have to be reallyproactive to kind of keep busy,
and you know, because they'renot going to send me an email
every time they have a load,because you know the chances are
that I'm available.
You know is going to be low, soI'm available.

(41:33):
You know it's going to be low,but so I'm going to reach out to
them and let them know where Iam.
So that's been helpful for me.

I would add on to that by saying if you really
want to be really successful,you want to run the same lanes
24-7 and you want to get therelationship built up with the
broker, then they know everyweek you're going to be in that
area, so they will give you theloads before they go on the load

(42:01):
board, because in my opinion,dat about 80% of their loads are
.
A shipper says I need a loadpicked up between the 7th and
the 27th.
Give me the cheapest truckpossible.
You want to be in the 20%?
That is?
Hey, I need one of your normals, one of your regular guys on

(42:21):
this load.
It picks up on the 7th andneeds to deliver on the 9th.
That's the kind of relationshipI want.

It's the biggest .
You know it's a race to thebottom, so to speak.
I mean it really is.
It's like you're competing with.
You know it's not good.
So that's why, that's whybuilding a relationship with
email and, you know, lettingthem know where I'm going to be,
and, um, and I, I agree withyou the same, the time that I've
been most successful is I'mrunning dedicated lanes and

(42:51):
running in that same area,whether I'm, you know, I would.
I had season where I was doingDallas to Chicago and I just was
tearing up that lane, just like, just went back and forth, back
and forth, back and forth, and,um, out of Dallas I might have
one or two shippers that wererunning that lane and I would
have a couple, um differentbrokers in Chicago that were,
you know, hooking me up on theother end, and I was just
constantly letting everybodyknow when I was going to be back

(43:12):
.
And I've done that with Atlantaand Nashville and just
different seasons where I'm justconstantly running.
And then occasionally, likeI'll be in Nashville, I'm like,
okay, this is going to take meoff my path, but as soon as I
could get back to that rhythm,running that same lane, and it
was most profitable for thatreason, because I could have
relationships with people thatwere running when I came
straight out of those cities.

(43:33):
So, yeah, that's great advice.

Yeah, in my mind you want to do 600 miles
round trips.
You want to do 600 miles there,600 miles back, so you can do
it in one day.
You can do two and a halfrounds a week and you'll be
working with the same customers,same shippers, same brokers,
over and over again and theywill rely on you more and more
and you'll gain their trust moreand more and eventually you

(44:01):
will be their go-to.
You will be the one they calland say this little gentleman,
I'll go ahead and give Kyle acall.
I'm sure he'll want it for youknow, the 12s or the 15s.

Yeah, I love that.

I mean, how do you figure out market rates?

well, I look at, I do look I know you said you
don't like to look at that whatthe trend line is showing there,
but I'm also, you know, I dolook at that.
I do look at see what that'spaying.
I don't think that it meansthat what I have to pay, and I
do think there's somenegotiation skills that are
involved but I do look at thatand see as a base of what's
paying.
I don't think it's set up justfor brokers.

(44:42):
I do think that it's the mostreliable source for that
information that you can get andnot to say that there's not
trucks making more than that.
But I just have that in mindgoing in.
So I look at data.
I use the load boards for theload averages for the month.
What about you?
You say you don't trust those.
How are you deciding where togo?

Again.
I go to the same areas everyweek, unless I'm doing my local
dedicated round trips.
I do that in the summer.
What I would do is if I wantedto go from Columbus Ohio to
Chicago Illinois, I would callcarriers in Columbus and say,
hey, I'm Bob with XYZ Broker andI'm looking out of a dedicated

(45:26):
account and I'm looking for atruck to go to Columbus Ohio
every day of the week.
How much would you charge to dothat?
And I'd do that like 10 or 15times and take the average out
of that and that would be thelane rate for that area and that
would tell me if I wanted to dothat lane or not.

And so where are you getting the carrier
information?

I just Google Columbus, ohio trucking
companies and normally a lot ofthem pop up.
Safer will pop up as well.
That's how I would figure out,because that's how brokers do it
.
That's how brokers figure outwhat it's going to cost to haul
a load from Columbus to Chicago.
That's how they should do itanyways.
A lot of these brokers arepromising super cheap rates to

(46:12):
these shippers to get theirbusiness, and that's why the
market is so down.
But if they did it the rightway, they would call and be like
hey, we're working on this.
How much do you want your truckto do it?
And they would do that 10 or 15times and they'd go back to the
shipper and say here you go.
This is what we should be ableto get moved for.

And are you finding that carriers will give
that in, will talk to you likethat, without knowing who you
are?

Have you ever gotten a call or an email from a
broker saying, hey, we havethis load, how much do you want
to haul it?
Because I've had that happenevery week and I always give
them my numbers.
Yeah, I mean.
So it's very different.
Right than that.

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Yeah, because it happens.
I'm going to say to me I get 50emails a week with people
asking me hey, we have this load, what's your rate?
And then I get random phonecalls saying hey, I'm with XYZ
broker, we got this load.
Are you interested and you wantto find?

I get so many calls from dispatchers I mean
it's so ridiculous, so I don't.
I won't talk to the dispatcher,so I always will.
I'm always like what's your MCnumber so I can rattle off their
MC number.
I'm not going to talk to thembecause they're a dispatcher and
I don't want to waste my time.

You know having that conversation, but you can,
just you can just rattle offyour MC number of your trucking
company and they're not going tolook it up.
Yeah, they they're going to say, oh okay, cool, I mean again
because you're not lying at thatpoint if you just rattle off
your MC number.

Yeah, that's good.
I like that.
That's good hustle.

Kyle, that is a really important tip.
That's how I like to do it,because then again, if you go
off the DAT and that's why Idon't like the DAT averages
Because if you call truckingcompanies like that and do that
to medium to small truckingcompanies, the DAT average is
nowhere near what peopleactually want to charge and

(48:02):
that's the rate you want is therate that trucking companies
want.
Because right now, what'severybody doing Complaining
about how bad rates are and allthose people are taking loads
off the load board.
And what are all those peoplecomplaining about that?
The brokers have the loadsposted too cheap.
So it all factors into.
That's why I don't trust the 18.

Well, and I think that the problem with the
18 number probably is accurateand you know people.
When you're calling and sayingwhat you want to run that lane,
you know they're giving a numberthat's going to make them a
profit.
So I think probably you knowthat's going to build your
confidence to be able to not youbut you know just somebody
negotiating that this is reallywhat the lane is worth and to be

(48:44):
able to stand firm on that.
I love to tell somebody whenthey go that lane doesn't pay
that much.
I'm like, dude, I run this lanethree times a week.
Don't tell me what the laneruns.
You know I'm like this is mybread and butter, so I know what
this Lane pays, so you're goingto have to come up.
I'd love to be able to say that.

But a lot of trucking companies.
They don't know their cost permile, they don't know what their
target rate should be.
So they're out here running forwhat the spot market rate is.
And I know this because I'veasked in Facebook groups hey,
what does everybody considercheap freight?
And everybody says the samething.
You say, cindy.
Well, according to VAT, thenational average right now is

(49:26):
$2.06 a mile.
So if you're above $2 a mileyou're doing okay.
That's not accurate at all.
You should not have thatmentality because that's not
true.
So if you don't know what therate should be, then you can't
tell your shipper what you wantto haul it, because if you go
off to the DAT they're probablygoing to be really happy because
you're doing it for a dollarless a mile than anybody else

(49:49):
and in six months you'reprobably going to be out of
business because you're notmaking enough profit.

It's not sustainable just to fly articy
to your pants it's going tocatch up with you.

Yeah, and again , most of the loads on the load
board are from brokers thatpromise loads to shippers for
way too cheap and they know thatpeople are going to take it
because it's almost what themarket average that DAT says it
is, so why wouldn't they take it?
Everybody thinks it's slowright now because you know

(50:21):
what's 20 cents, 15 cents a mileJust take it, it's fine.
That's again.
Do not trust what DHT says.
They're a tool for a broker,not a truck driver.

So how are you finding your load?
Are you using DHT, or what areyou using to find when you're on
the spot market, when you're inthat situation where you're in
a random city or something thatyou don't have a relationship
with, how are you finding yourloads?

I only do the same area every week, so I have
10 brokers that I know.
About 50% of my current freightis from brokers.
Sometimes my outbound freightis even a broker.
It's just the way it works out.
That week I will just call them.
They send me load lists over inan email or they know me and

(51:10):
they're saying, hey, we got thisload coming up next week.
Do you want it?
It's like, yeah, I want it,because they know that I will
deliver around time, that I willbe there and they know what my
target rate is.
So they know not to call me ifit's not at my target rate.

Yeah, so you're completely off the load boards.
You're not using load boards atall.

I don't pay.
If it costs me money, I'm notpaying for it because they're
not.
They're financially, they'renot worth it.
Now, I used to be a gypsy truckdriver.
I used to do all the 48 statesand I used to be on every load
board and that was one of thereasons why I wasn't making
enough money to keep all mytrucks, Because I was going off

(51:49):
of the load board.
I'd have my outbound load andthey're like, hey, we need you
to go from here down to Texas.
It's like, yeah, cool, I'll doit.
And then out of Texas, it'slike, well, I guess I might as
well go up to Colorado, becauseit pays 75 cents more a mile to
do that than I did to gostraight back to Indiana.
And then I'd use another loadboard and then I would sign
another broker and eventuallyit's like I make more money

(52:11):
doing a dedicated route than Ido being a gypsy and just going
wherever the highest outboundload takes me.

Yeah, same for me, and I, really early on in
trucking I knew that I would notenjoy doing dedicated freight,
like that would be hard on meand it is a little difficult on
me but so much more profitablerunning dedicated freight.
So I agree with you 100%.
So I am a little bit of a gypsysoul, so it's very difficult
for me.
But, um, I'm running a lot ofthe same lane.

(52:41):
So, um, but for that reason,because I have good
relationships and my shippersare taking good care of me and,
um, I don't, they know, like yousaid, they know my rate, they
know what I'm.
I don't have to haggle everytime.
We know and if it's not a goodfit for me, they're not gonna.
They're not gonna, you know,mess with me.
So it's like it works out great, but it's like, yeah, I kind of
a little bit miss being a gypsy.

Oh, I do too, because that's what I used to
love to do, because the thoughtof driving on the same road, the
same direction, the same way,seeing all the same stuff every
day of the week maybe not wantto drive truck, but when I
realized that if I do this I cantake more time off, so it's

(53:24):
actually going to be better inthe end, and that's what really
matters is how much time can youpay to take off?
You can do the thing you don'twant to do.

Yeah, that's exactly how I resolve it myself.
I just get more time off, andit does afford me to have a
little bit more flexibility inmy scheduling, because the pay
is just significantly higher, soI just can't turn it away.

So I have a question how do your shippers
handle you not being there whenyou take time off?
Because I like to take weeksoff every month normally.
Normally in November throughMarch I might only work an
average of one week a month, sohow do your shippers handle that

(54:11):
scenario?

Well, I'm not working part-time like you are,
kyle, I do take some time offbut honestly it's a little bit
of a risk.
So I'm not working part timelike you are, kyle, I do take
some time off and I honestlyit's a little bit of a risk.
So I'm always a little bitconcerned that I'm going to lose
my shippers but, you know, losemy relationship or somebody
might.
You know, I had to take acouple weeks and then right
after I had to take some moretime off and they've just been

(54:43):
really great.
And I think you know, honestlyI think everybody talks about,
you know, cheap freight and it'sso competitive is for shippers
to find trustworthy drivers andtruckers that take care of their
equipment and are going to beon time, communicate well and do
what they say they're going todo, and I think that that goes a
long way.

(55:04):
So you know, knock on wood, youknow, so far that's been
working for me.
So you know, any time that I'mavailable they want to work with
me and I'm really grateful.
But it does make me nervous,though I mean, I can lie
Sometimes.
I'm like I'm sitting on a beachand I'm like, well, you know, I
hope they still use me when Iget back.
But you know, sometimes youknow family stuff comes up and
you've got to take time off andI just do that because I want to

(55:27):
prioritize my family.
But you know, yeah, it's a good.
My shippers have been reallygood in the brokers that I run
steady for, you know, have beenreally um, taking good care of
me.
So, um, I'm grateful.
So, knock on wood, so far, sofar, so good.

So when I look for a shipper, I like to look
for somebody who ships somethingout one time a month go into
where I want to go.
So that way, you know, I'drather have 10 of those shippers
than one shipper that wanted toship out every single day of
the week.
How do you feel about that?

Yeah, I guess I like that.
I don't know, I have mixedfeelings about that.
I like the steady, because whenI want to work and when I want
to run, you know I'm like I wantto be busy.
So I don't know, I have mixedfeelings about that, so I don't
know, that's rough.

I mean, I was just looking at it from a
standstill of again.
I like to take time off.
So if I can keep two shippersthat ship out once a month,
that's, you know, a little bitbetter.
So other ones don't want tocontinue to work with me after
that, because from March untilOctober I will work seven days a
week if I have to.
So that's, I keep those everyyear.

(56:43):
That's never a question aboutit.
It's just the ones that are inmy off time.
That you know.
That's what I like.
It's just find the shipper thatships out once a month, twice a
month, and you can be their guy.
You'll be the first one theycall.
That's what I feel morecomfortable with.
Then if you lose one shipper,you don't lose 50% of your

(57:04):
business.
Yeah, yeah, I like to diversify.

Well, I worry about that too, and myself I
sometimes wonder, like, am Irunning for just so few people
now, because I'm running regular?
You know so many regular lanes.
So, and it makes me, it doesmake me a little bit nervous.
I think you need to say um,with a variety of shippers and
brokers, so you know somethinghappens to one, you know you
lose that relationship forwhatever reason.

(57:27):
You have, you know anotherplace to fall.
So I think the variety is verywise actually.
Well, tell me, about what doyou run regular like?
So what's your busy season?
So what kind of freight are yourunning?
What's your steady work?

I do LTL whiskey, so I'll do 6 to 12
stops a night oh, wow yeah, andthen I'll do that 5 to 7 days a
week and I will do that betweenMarch and October and that
normally right now pays $3.59 amile, plus fuel charge, plus

(58:08):
stop pay.
Wow, very nice, and thatcarries me through the rest of
the year, and all my shippersknow that they're like between
this time and this time.
He's gone Between this time andthis time.
We call him and he'll be hereand then that is what gives me
the ability to take off threeweeks out of the month every
month, and that way I don't gotto deal with it.

Yeah, that's nice.
That's a sweet gig.
I like that.
Well, how are you doing yourinvoicing?
Do you do factoring?
We didn't talk about factoring.
Do you do that?
Are you doing your owninvoicing?

I do my own invoicing.

Yeah, I do too.
I factored in the beginning andthen I just slowly stepped away
from it.
I did it when my factoringcompany was like 2%, which I
thought you know honestly.
You know I was running so muchvariety of brokers and so I kind
of thought in my head I waslike you know, 2%, it's worth

(59:07):
them doing it for me, honestly.
But I kind of I hate all theadministrative part of it.
You know, I don't like that.
So I didn't mind paying 2% andI had negotiated that rate to
get down to 2%.
So I thought you know, it's notworth it to stop.
But then after a while Istarted running for the same
handful of people.
I was like there was never anyworry that they weren't going to
pay and I just thought I got toa place financially where I

(59:27):
could just wait for thattwo-week 21-day payment to start
rolling in and I just switchedover and and I just switched
over and it's been pretty great.

I mean again, I think factoring when you first
start out wouldn't be the worstthing, but out of every three
loads you haul, one of thoseloads shouldn't be factored more
.
And then you slowly start torotate it out and that way you
have a constant revenue comingin.
I mean unless especially thingsto watch out for is if you're
working with a broker and theirquick pay option is we won't

(59:59):
quick pay you unless you'vehauled three loads for us, I
would stay away from that broker.
You really got to watch out forstuff like that.
And one of those loads is checkin with the factoring company,
check in on DAT, what's theircredit rating, and because some
factoring companies will say,yeah, we're not going to pay
that, so you can't really holdfor them unless you want to take
the chance yourself.
So that's something to watchout.

Cindy Tunstall (01:00:21):
For I was new I really liked the idea of having
my factory company be able tocheck credit for me, because I
just wasn't sure about all of it.
I was still learning theindustry, so I kind of relied
heavily on that and now I thinkI would.
You know, dad always has afactory company they're
partnering with.
So they'll have a little checkmark on there and they'll say I
kind of just trust that.
You know, if they feel like youknow, they'll give them a pass.

(01:00:44):
And I'm like oh, you're big,I'll trust your credit check.
If it works for you, it'll workfor me.
But again, I'm not running spotmarket like that anymore.
So I'm running with, just likeyou are just a handful of steady
brokers.
But in the beginning I reliedon that being able to do a
credit check.
And you know, I was just soworried about getting burned by
somebody and I wanted to getpaid.

Kyle Hutchinson (01:01:08):
That's why you can go against their bond.
So you know that's always aplus.
And most brokerages have quickpay options and most of those
quick pay options are going tobe very competitive with a
factoring company anyways.
So if you're working for CHRobinson a lot, you can trust
that and use their quick pay.
You don't have to factor those.

(01:01:30):
But if you're working for abroker that's only been in
business for six months to twoyears, I would be a little leery
of that, Especially becausethey probably only ship out two,
three, four loads a month andthat is where it gets a little
nerve-wracking.
Like, yeah, this is like aquarter of your monthly income
right here while you're takingoff this load, so you might want

(01:01:51):
to be a little worried aboutthat.
If they don't get paid, you'redefinitely not getting paid.

Yeah, that would make me nervous.
It's like that's too shady,like I don't know.
I'm like there's too manyoptions out there.
It's like I'm not going to takethat risk.
So anyway, it's all good.
So I mentioned checking credit.
When you go with directshippers, do you have a way that
you check if you have a newshipper, that you can check
credit?
Or how do you know if they'regoing to pay you?

(01:02:17):
Because, say, you have thisload that's going to pay you
$2,000, but then you deliver andthe shipper doesn't pay, and so
obviously that was not such agood deal after all.
So how?

do you go about knowing if a shipper is credit
worthy?
I'm being really honest, I havenever checked a shipper's
credit and I have never gotten abad check from them.

Okay, okay, that scares me, but okay, I'll share
.
I'll share for me, cause Ihaven't.
I had just a little basic formthat I had them fill out about
their credit and I asked forreferences I think I found it
online and um and asked theirDUNS number so I could look up
their um, their credit scorethere.
And then I asked them forpeople you know, both um
carriers that had shipped forthem, and then also their

(01:03:00):
banking references.
And I just called and Ihonestly I wouldn't have done
this early on, but I know to dothis now.
But I had considered for awhile opening a brokerage and
one of the things I had lookedinto was I know you need to make
sure they're credit worthy.
So I did a little bit ofresearch for the broker side,
because I was considering doingthat for a minute, and so I

(01:03:20):
learned that shippers that'svery common practice and I don't
think carriers you know driversrealize that that's a normal
part of their transaction andeach time I've asked if I could
fill out a credit form, you knowI give them my form.
They don't even bat an eye.
That's just totally normal inthe industry that they would
fill out a credit check.
So you know, it's just the easyone little thing.

(01:03:42):
And then they never felt.
I never had anybody say whatyou don't trust me, you know.
You know they never respondedwith offense.
They go oh yeah, sure, hold on,I just have to.
And sometimes they have to gothrough corporate or sometimes
they had me send me down toaccounting or send this email to
somebody.
But it was super quick and Ijust made a few phone calls and
I'm like, yeah, these people aresolid.
So it was just a really easyway for me to have peace of mind

(01:04:04):
that I didn't do that.
Honestly, if I did not want tostart a brokerage, I hadn't
looked into that, I wouldn'thave known that that's even such
common practice.
So anyway, that's a little tipfor you there, kyle.
So anyway, that's a little tipfor you there, Kyle.

Have you ever did a credit check on a shipper
and it came back as I'm notgoing to work with them?
Or have you ever gotten stiffedon a load?

No, I've never gotten stiffed on a load, but I
always check credit, even when Irun with brokers.
I had a factoring company.
I don't factor anymore, butwhen I did I would always check
their credit.
So I would never run forsomebody that didn't have
established credit, because tome I felt like it wasn't worth
the risk.
And, um, there's so many, somuch shady stuff going on, I
just thought I'm not gonna riskgetting burned, and so I've.

(01:04:47):
I've literally been paid 100%on every load that I've run in
the last five years, so, um, Iguess it's working for me.
What about you?
You been burned.

No, never.

Okay, good, I like that.
Okay, so let's talk aboutanother.
This is a controversial issue.
Do you use a dispatcher to helpyou negotiate freight, or do
you do all of that yourself?

I negotiate everything myself.
I never sell a point in adispatching service when they
take 5, 10, 7, 15, 20% forsomething that I can do myself.
Now if I wasn't good at talkingwith people or talking with
brokers, or knew the inside andout of a brokerage, I might lean
a little bit more towards usingone, but I just don't think

(01:05:39):
they're worth it in the end.

Well, my concern always is so you know I do a
great job for this.
You know my company is, youknow, secures this load and I do
a great job.
I show up on time, I secure thefreight, maybe solve some
problems, you know, and you know, save them some time and money.
And you know, save them sometime and money and you know I
just do a great communicate, youknow, with excellence, let them
know where they are.
There's no worries,everything's on time and I do

(01:06:04):
this great job.
And my dispatcher, you know,has booked that load for me and
actually that load comes upagain and I think a dispatcher
has an opportunity to give thatload to one of the other
trucking companies and granted,fmcsa has, you know, said
they're not supposed to be doingthat, but you know they're
still doing that.
So, you know, I, I just like,why would I, why would I risk

(01:06:27):
that relationship, not that thatmy good work.
Coming back to you know themcalling my dispatcher and my
dispatcher potentially maybegiving that to another trucking
company.
The idea of that makes me crazy.
And then I also hear thesestories of this crazy batshit
stuff.
These dispatchers will go offon somebody and you know they'll

(01:06:49):
tell them the truck's going tobe there and the truck's, you
know, hundreds of miles away.
We talked about that in lastweek's show.
But you know it's like it's sorisky, like they're putting your
reputation on the line.
And you know it's like it's sorisky, like they're putting your
reputation on the line and youknow you can get pissed and say,
okay, that's it, I'm, I'm, I'mfire you.
You know that's fine, there'sgo work for another truck
company.
There's no harm, there's noreputation damage for them.
You know they're just going togo and get another carrier, but

(01:07:10):
yet all of these marks, you know, maybe you get a freight guard
or you know, maybe a brokerdecides to blackmail you and put
you on the do not use list.
And you know, so it's like to meit's so risky and it's such a I
guess I wouldn't do it unlessit was in-house, like if I had a
fleet of trucks and I was, Icould supervise and, you know,
be monitoring the way thatthey're communicating on my

(01:07:31):
behalf and having thatdispatcher be only working for
my fleet of trucks.
So I'm just too.
Maybe I'm just too controlling,but I think it's too important.
So I'd be hesitant to do thatmyself, but I like to hustle and
I like to negotiate.
That's one of the favoriteparts of the job for me.

I like talking with people and working out the
deals.
I would definitely say don't beafraid to get blackballed by a
broker as not that big of a dealand most of the time it's
because you're seeing yourground and you're getting what
your truck is worth.
So just a little point on that.
But yeah, dispatchers, theyreally don't have the best

(01:08:11):
interest of you, the trucker, inmind most of the time, I think,
because I would much rather getthat call from the broker
saying hey, two weeks ago youdid this load for us.
Do you want to do another oneagain?
Of course I do.
Why wouldn't I?
This is my rate.
Okay, no problem, send it overVersus with a dispatcher, as you
said.
They can say yeah, we have atruck that can do that for you

(01:08:31):
here.
It isn't available right now,but this other truck will do it
for you, no problem.

Yeah, that would suck.
Well, let's talk about when toexpand your fleet.
Like I know, you said that youhad several trucks in the
beginning.
Your fleet has been bigger nowdown to one.
How did you know when it wastime to add more trucks and what
made you make that decision,and maybe tell a little bit

(01:08:57):
about what happened, what youlearned from that experience?

Well, I can tell you, apparently I didn't
know when to expand last weekand that's why it didn't work
out so well.
If I had to redo it again, Iwould say, when you have a
maintenance fund for your truckand the second truck, and then
you have a maintenance fund foryour truck and the second truck,
and then you have an emergencyfund to pay for all the expenses

(01:09:21):
of that second truck as well,you should add a truck on and a
driver.
Try not to get anybody you know.
Try not to get anybody that youdon't want to fire, because
you're going to have to firethree or four drivers before you
find one good driver.

And how do you go about finding a good driver?
That's a good question.

It is a good question.
If you're a small person,you're just looking for one
driver, you will know somebodywho knows somebody that can
vouch for them and say, yeah, Iknow this guy, brian, he's a
real good guy.
He lives like 30 miles from you.
He's looking for a job.
That was my best luck, and,honestly, my best luck was
training people and having themstart out riding in the truck

(01:10:09):
with me for six months, payingthem the pay that they would get
, and that way I knew they wouldtake care of my equipment and
handle it exactly how I wouldhandle it.
That's not for everybody,though, so I wouldn't recommend
that, but that's how I had thebest luck.

Yeah, that's a big investment into your driver.
So I can see I know mostcompanies don't do that spend
that kind of time with thedriver before they let them have
the keys.
So that's a pretty biginvestment.
I mean, it's a risk, You'regiving them your truck and your
reputation, so it's a goodinvestment.

Well, anybody can keep up a charade for a
couple of weeks when you'retraining them.
Well, two or three months in,when they get tired, or they get
mad, or they get cranky, orthey just want to go home, or
they're just over it, that'swhen you really see, you know it
shines through of are theyreally going to be a good driver
for your company or not?

so somebody's been saving up their money,
they've got the emergency fund.
How do they know when they'reready to make that leap?
What advice do you give, likeas far as the readiness to make
that leap, anything else thatyou would add for somebody
considering making the jump?

If you do it, just do it.
It's either going to work or itisn't, and you'll learn a
valuable lesson about yourselfin the end.

Yeah, I like it, just do it.

I mean there's no, either you're going to do it
or you're not.
If you can afford to let yourtruck sit for six months with
insurance on it to aid your DOTnumber, that would be amazing.
But not a lot of people aregoing to have the ability to do
that.
But if you could, that wouldwork out really well for you.

Even now it's hard with new authorities
Because even like, say, you letyour authority age that in the
past I think was the biggestdeal you know, because you
didn't have any time on yourauthority.
But now they look forinspections.
So even if you had yourtrucking authority for six
months but you didn't have anyinspections, I think you would
still have the same struggle nowwith brokers.

(01:12:13):
So again I would go back to thething now with brokers.
So again I would go back to thething you got to be able to go
into shippers and, you know, setup, make arrangements to haul
freight, even before you knowyour authorities.
You know active, start hustlingand start looking for ways to
you know relationships that youcan haul.
For I had a friend that starteda trucking company that actually
had freight lined up.

(01:12:33):
They were, you know, hadn'teven applied for their authority
yet and they actually, like theshipper was like, yeah, I'd
love to use you, but you know,go, go, get your own authority.
You know, get a truck and comerun with us.
I'd love to work with you, andyou know.
So it's like you don't have tobe the same model that everybody
has followed, but youdefinitely have to be creative,
and you definitely have to bewilling to hustle and keep

(01:12:56):
thinking outside the box aboutways that you can set yourself
apart from other people, becauseit's challenging, but not
impossible, but challenging.

That is very true, Well.

Kyle, you have a lot of wisdom and I know that
our audience is going to wonderhow that they can get in touch
with you and if they havequestions I mean, if you want to
share your socials or do youwant to how can people get in
touch with you If they hadquestions they wanted to ask you
, because I have a feelingthere's going to be some people
want to pick your brain.

They can reach out to the tall garage on
Facebook and that's my Facebookgroup for my shop that I run.
I do mechanic work and that'sprobably the best place to reach
me If you have any questionsregarding trucking.

Thanks for coming on the show, Kyle.
This was great.
I learned a lot.
This was a good conversation.

Thank you.

Brian Wilson (01:13:50):
I appreciate that.
One thing is quite clearthere's no one-size-fits-all
path in trucking.
Some drivers thrive asindependent owner-operators,
managing their own business,while others enjoy the freedom
yeah, I said freedom of being acompany driver.
You drive, you deliver yourfreight, you don't have to worry
about the stress of taxes,breakdown costs, payroll and all

(01:14:12):
of that.
The key is knowing what worksfor you.
That's the important part.
Hey, huge thanks to KyleHutchinson for sharing his
insights.
If you want to connect with him, check out the Tall Garage
Facebook group Link is in theshow notes.
Starting a trucking company is abig decision.
Cindy knows how overwhelming itcan be.
That's why she put together adetailed guide with all the

(01:14:35):
steps to help make the processeasier.
And remember, as always, we'rejust sharing our opinions here.
Nothing we share is meant toreplace professional counseling,
and that doesn't mean a shrink.
I'm talking about lawyers.
That is specific to your needs.
If you'd like a copy of thesteps to starting a trucking
company, just click the send usa text link in the show notes

(01:14:57):
and send Cindy your emailaddress.
She'll send it over when she'snot trucking.
If you found this episodevaluable, do us a favor share it
with a fellow driver.
They may need to hear this too.
Let's help each other level upand don't forget.
New episodes drop on the 1stand the 15th, so hit that
subscribe and keep rolling withus.

(01:15:18):
Well, as always, guys, I'mBrian Wilson, your old hand with
a new plan reminding you tokeep learning, keep growing,
keep asking questions and, mostof all, keep enjoying life.
Otr Until next time.

(01:16:58):
Thank you, thank you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Burden

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#68 Thinking About Getting Your Own Authority? The Realities of Running a Trucking Company

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Burden

All Episodes

#68 Thinking About Getting Your Own Authority? The Realities of Running a Trucking Company

Stuff You Should Know