June 18, 2024 • 44 mins
Hey Enneagram Friend! I’m Abbi - an IEA Accredited Enneagram Teacher & Coach. I teach Enneagram workshops with corporate and non-profit teams, and I also facilitate executive coaching as part of that professional development experience. I’d love to bring the Enneagram to your workplace!
Today on the podcast, I’m joined on the podcast by fellow Enneagram Practitioner, Beth McCord. Beth is the founder of Your Enneagram Coach and is an Enneagram speaker, coach, author & teacher. She is passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them re-write their story, allowing them to see that lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life of seep purpose is possible. In our conversation today, we specifically explore her new book The Enneagram for Moms. I hope you’ll listen in with curiosity & see what resonates in your experience.
Connect with Beth at Your Enneagram Coach to learn even more about her work or checkout her new book The Enneagram for Moms set to release July 9th.
Are you looking for ways to support your staff & provide meaningful opportunities for engagement this season? Learn more about team Enneagram Workshops at www.abbirodriguez.com and schedule a Free Consultation Call to explore how the Enneagram would benefit your organization! Interested in executive Enneagram coaching for yourself or your team? Schedule a FREE Discovery Call or learn more about coaching at www.abbirodriguez.com/coaching
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Episode Transcript
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Abbi Rodriguez (00:00):
Hey Ennegram friends, I'm Abby, an IEA
accredited Ennegram teacher andcoach.
I teach Ennegram workshops withcorporate and nonprofit teams,
and I also facilitate executivecoaching as part of that
professional developmentexperience.
I'd love to bring the Enneagramto your workplace.
Today on the podcast, I'mjoined by fellow Ennegram
(00:22):
practitioner, Beth McCortin.
She's the founder of YourEnnegram Coach and is an
Ennegram speaker, coach, author,and teacher, and has been for
over the past 20 years.
She's passionate about comingalongside individuals and
helping them rewrite theirstory, allowing them to see
lasting change, meaningfulrelationships, and a life that's
possible of deep purpose.
(00:43):
Today on the podcast, wespecifically talk about her new
book, The Enneagram from Moms,that will be released in July.
And so I'm excited to sharethis conversation with you.
As always, I hope you listen inwith curiosity and see what
resonates in your experience.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
It's really great to have youas a guest and to be able to
(01:06):
talk more about your book.
So thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks, Abby.
It's so great to be here.
So I know that we could talkabout lots of different topics
and lots of different facets ofthe Enneagram.
Um, but I would specificallylove to talk about your new book
that is coming out in July, um,The Enneagram for Moms.
So if you um just kind ofstarting our conversation, I'd
(01:28):
love to know why you wrote thisbook.
Beth McCord (01:30):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Great place to start.
So I started using Enneagramwhen I was 26 years old.
So this is back in 2001, a longtime ago.
Um, and it was during thatseason when my kids were one and
three years old, that I justdid not understand myself.
I didn't understand why thingswould trip me up, you know,
(01:51):
being a mom and being a parent.
Um, and so I had a friend thatuh let me know about the
Enneagram.
And so I started reading aboutit and I was like, oh my gosh,
this is amazing.
And how do they know this aboutme?
Um, but one particular day thatthat really comes to mind is I
would take my kids to theplayground.
My husband was in seminary, andso a bunch of us lived on
(02:11):
campus.
And so we would take them tothe playground, and I would just
look at all these moms and belike, oh my gosh, she is such a
strong mom.
Like she really knows what todo and she's just very
assertive, but you know, butkind.
And then I look at another momand go, oh, she's so creative
and like she's able to be therewith her kids emotionally.
And then, you know, I would saythat about all the moms in my
(02:34):
head.
And every time I would do that,I would kind of put myself down
a little bit more and a littlebit more.
And then I'd come home and Iwould kind of tell Jeff, you
know, how I was feeling.
And he helped me to understandthat I was basically putting all
the best qualities of thesemoms into one super woman and
thinking that she exists, like Icould become that person.
(02:55):
Yeah.
And he's like, Bet that doesn'texist.
And in fact, those women, youknow, they're doing like they're
putting on their best in frontof others.
You don't know what they'restruggling with behind closed
doors.
And I was like, Oh, you'reright.
And the fact that I amliterally creating an image or a
person that I think I shouldbecome, and it doesn't exist.
(03:18):
And so by reading theEnneagram, it helped me to go,
oh, I'm a type nine.
I was created to be a type ninemom for my kiddos.
I wasn't created to be a typefour mom or a five or a six, as
wonderful as that would havebeen.
I was created to be a type ninemom.
So what does that mean?
It's not, it doesn't mean Ineed to be this superwoman with
(03:40):
all the best characteristics inthe world.
I have my own characteristics,strengths, and liabilities that
I need to focus on to become mybest self.
And so I wanted to write a bookfor moms to recognize that they
are beautiful in their owntype.
And the whole goal is to reallybecome the best version of
(04:01):
yourself for your kiddos, nomatter what types they are and
whether you get to find outtheir types for quite a while or
not.
So when we can do our ownpersonal work, we will really be
fabulous moms no matter whattype we are.
Abbi Rodriguez (04:14):
Yeah.
And and I love that quality ofeven um, you know, you talk
about it so much in the book,which I've I've loved getting to
look through and read throughthe book ahead of time, but
really just this invitation tofocus on self first rather than
trying to figure out yourkiddos.
You know, as I interact withclients and in workshops and
(04:34):
individual coaching, out of thisgenuine desire to show up well
as a parent and do thatrelationship well, uh, the
questions always come up of, youknow, how do I figure out my
kids' type and how old do theyneed to be?
Right.
And those are all really goodquestions.
Um, and I I always love thecuriosity of it.
But, you know, and you talkabout this in your book, this
(04:55):
the sense of sometimes we'retrying to figure out our kids so
then we can fix them, orsometimes I think even um pander
to their type a little bit.
And really this genuineinvitation from your book to
focus on yourself first and andcultivating that robust
self-awareness of your internalworld.
So I'd love to hear you talkjust a little bit more about um
(05:16):
kind of that vital piece ofself-awareness and how that
really does impact yourparenting.
If you start first withyourself, even if you have no
idea what your kiddos type isand maybe not for a long time.
Beth McCord (05:29):
Yeah.
And I know that we talked aboutthat a lot of your audience is
in the workspace.
And it really, the Innegram isso powerful just in any
relationship dynamic.
And even if I was in theworkspace, I would say the same
thing.
It starts with you.
Um, I know just like anyoneelse, it feels like it's
everyone else that's creating myinternal problems, but we can
(05:51):
actually learn to grow inself-regulation, uh, being more
sober-minded, meaning we're notjust all over the place.
Um, and so with being a parent,it's the same way, because you
could have nine kids and they'reall the different nine types.
And yes, some might activateyou more than others, but why?
The whole point is why.
(06:12):
And the Enneagram gets to thatwhy.
And when you can understand whyyou're getting activated, then
you have the opportunity tobecome self-regulated, to get to
a place where you can enterinto that relationship.
Again, maybe it's with yourboss or your employee or a
coworker, you can enter intothat relationship in a whole
(06:32):
different way because you canactually engage in that
relationship, then react to thesituation.
And I mean, just kind of giveyou an example, I'm a type nine,
the peaceful accommodator.
And if I see, let's say, mykids start whining or they're
upset about something andthey're not happy.
Well, I start to feel like I'mbeing a really bad mom.
(06:53):
Well, why?
Because I can see other momsthat are like, they don't feel
this way, you know.
You know, yeah, they don'tprobably want their kids to
whine, but there's differentreasons for why.
But for me as a type nine, Idon't like conflict and I feel
that I must make everybodyhappy.
Abbi Rodriguez (07:08):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (07:08):
Well, sad news, no one can make anyone fully happy.
And so I'm like, okay, so doesthat mean I'm gonna be unhappy
my whole life?
No, I that I don't have to livethat life.
And so what I have to recognizeis okay, why do I get activated
that way?
And my core motivations reallypoint to the fact that yes, I
(07:30):
don't like conflict.
I don't like people beingupset.
I want harmony, I want peace.
And that's okay.
It's not wrong gettingactivated, it's what I do with
it.
Now, as a type nine, my typicalgo-to is to forget myself and
go along to get along, thinkingI can make people happy and then
everything is going to be okay.
(07:50):
Well, it's not true.
So, what do I need to recognizeabout that in the moment is
that okay, uh, it's totallyunderstandable that I want peace
and harmony.
I want people happy, but whatis needed in this moment as a
mom to these kiddos, what dothey need and what do I need?
And that's an important,especially for nine, what do I
(08:11):
need is an important part tointegrate.
So once I understand, okay, I Ias a mom want them to make the
bed or put the dishes away,whatever it is, and they're not
gonna be happy about it.
I have in my mind settled inon, okay, this is what I'm
wanting.
And I know the outcome might bethat they whine and complain.
(08:31):
What am I gonna do about thatwhen that happens?
Because it's going to activateme.
That's not a bad or wrongthing.
But when I get activated, howam I going to approach that
situation?
Will I be able to benon-anxious and a connected
presence with them?
Or am I going to be reactiveand just make everything, you
know, either I'll be like upsetthat they're making my life hard
(08:53):
because now I feel like I'm notmaking them happy, or am I
going to throw it all back ontothem and make them feel like
they're just doing terriblethings because they don't want
to do the dishes or make theirbed?
So this gives us theopportunity to understand our
internal world.
And to, of course, it takes along time to really understand
(09:14):
our internal world and to havethis emotional self-regulation,
but it is so worth it.
And I kind of explained thatthroughout the whole book.
And like I said, this isn'tjust about parenting, this is
every single relationship thatwe have.
And when we're able to be moreself-regulated, we are able to
bring the best of who we are.
And not only does that blesseveryone else around us, we get
(09:36):
to enjoy life on a whole newlevel.
And that doesn't mean we'rehappy or life is perfect.
It's that we can enjoy lifewith whatever it's giving us in
that moment.
Abbi Rodriguez (09:47):
Yeah, definitely.
And, you know, when we talkabout this, this emotional
regulation, right?
Or um, you know, so I I'malmost as I am also a somatic
practitioner.
And so that awareness of, youknow, you talk about aware in
the sense of having some senseof your emotions in real time,
your thoughts in real time, yourbodily sensations in real time.
(10:07):
And cultivating that awareness,it does take time.
You know, I think sometimeswe're so used to the quick fix
of things.
And, you know, there is, Iheard someone say once the
Enneagram is it's easy to be astudent of and it's very
difficult to be a master of,right?
Because it's really easy tostart the process, but it takes
a long time to really embody thewisdom of it and and all the
(10:31):
other pieces that go with it.
Um, and so letting it be aprocess with an incredible
amount of graciousness toourselves in those moments when,
you know, we blow up at ourkids and that wasn't um how we
wanted to show up, or it wasn'thonoring of who we actually are
in the world.
Uh, we just got triggered or wegot really activated and we
didn't realize it untilhindsight.
So now we got to go back andrepair.
(10:52):
Um, but I I would love, I lovehow you uh talked through kind
of this framework of aware andjust these different pieces,
because this is often thequestion um that I get and kind
of process through it really thesense of like, I know my type
or I know what I'm supposed todo, but then I feel like all I'm
doing is apologizing for mytype, right?
(11:13):
It's it's hard to notice it inreal time and pause to make a
choice differently of how wewant to show up.
So even if you would just kindof walk through this aware
framework and and how we mightkind of embody this awareness of
ourselves.
Absolutely.
Excuse me.
Beth McCord (11:28):
Yeah.
So what the AWARE um acronymis, is it goes through obviously
the letters of aware, which isA is awaken, W is welcome, the
next A is ask, then R isreceive, and the last letter is
E or engage.
And so we want people toawaken, just like you had said,
awaken to our thoughts,feelings, and body sensations
(11:51):
and inclinations.
So, like, what is actuallyhappening in the moment?
So let's say you get activatedand triggered and you're brand
new to the Enneagram.
Well, you might not even knowquite yet anything.
You know, like when I was a,you know, newly at this
Enneagram stuff, I wouldn't haveunderstood why am I so upset
that they're whining?
You know, because all night,like I said, online types can do
(12:13):
the same thing, but it's thewhy that's different.
So why am I feeling like this?
Or let's say my boss is upsetwith me.
Why do I feel like I want tocrumble inside?
Not everybody else feels it tothat point or that extreme.
Well, then once I start to uhget into the Enneagram, I'm
like, oh, I don't like conflict,I don't like tension, I don't
(12:34):
like being overlooked by otherpeople.
And so that is activatingsomething in me.
And so it's that awarenessthat's really helpful.
And different types are gonnause like body sensations to give
them clues.
Me wanting to like uh withdrawor hightail it out of there, you
know, or like get under thecovers, you know, that is a good
(12:55):
signal for a nine that yeah,something's activating you.
Whereas maybe a type eight islike, you know what, I'm just
gonna be a snow plow, I'm gonnaplow right over you, you know,
because and it's like, why do Ifeel like doing that?
You know, so we all havedifferent um activations inside
us.
And so that's where theintegram can really be helpful.
It's a tool of self-discovery.
So you can use this tool tomake you aware of why you're
(13:17):
thinking, feeling, and havingthese body sensations.
Now, the W is almost the mostimportant part because if you
don't do the W, this all isgoing to derail.
So the W is welcome.
We want to welcome thesethoughts, feelings, and
sensations, this awareness ofwhat's going on without shame,
self-condemnation, andcriticalness towards ourselves.
(13:37):
Now that's hard because that'skind of like how our society
teaches us to be.
It's our natural just bentusually is to put ourselves down
or maybe put someone else down.
But how can we just look atthis situation and this
awareness with a non-judgmentalstance and receive it?
So that's important becauseotherwise you're going to
literally just keep going in thesame cycle over and over.
(13:59):
Then we want to ask and we wantto ask for what's true that
could be asking ourselves, isthis really true?
Is this what's going on?
Maybe we need to ask anotherperson that we're close to.
This is what I wasexperiencing.
Do you think this is true?
Now it's not to try to get yourown perspective back from
someone, but what is actuallyhappening in that moment?
Maybe you need to read a bookthat has truth on whatever topic
(14:22):
it is.
And so we want to gather truthand then we need to receive that
truth.
Cause, like you said, you canknow the truth, but are you
actually going to receive thetruth and actually do something
with the truth?
And the E is then to engagewith that truth in a new way in
your relationships.
And so that's the AWAREacronym.
Now, like you said, it's supersimple to read and go, yeah,
(14:43):
that totally makes sense, butit's hard to do.
And so if we just take it stepby step during when we get
activated, maybe we need to say,hey, I need a timeout, I need
to go think and process what'sgoing on.
It might take uh, you know, fora while some some time to go
through this, but then as you dothe aware process, whether you
do the actual letters or you dosomething that another teacher
(15:06):
does, just becoming aware,you'll get used to it and you
can actually start doing it inthe moment.
And you're like, oh, this iswhat's going on.
And that can be reallybeneficial for you in the moment
of these relationships.
Yeah, definitely.
Abbi Rodriguez (15:20):
And I think even, you know, I always say
it's helpful to notice it afterthe fact.
And then the more that younotice it, right, we can kind of
shorten that window of time oflike we noticed it the next day,
or now we notice it an hour or30 seconds after, and now we're
noticing it in real time.
And and really giving us somespace, you know, if we can
reflect on it afterwards andkind of go through what can feel
(15:42):
really challenging to go backand apologize, whether that is
to that moment of you know,rupture with our kiddos or in
the way that we treated someone.
Um, but also it gives us a lotof information about what it
looks like for us to bedysregulated or what it looks
like when we're triggered, orwhen we, you know, I would say
push out of our window oftolerance.
Because oftentimes it's usuallya handful of the same things.
(16:06):
You know, for me, when I'mgetting pushed out of my window
of tolerance, I get reallyquick.
You know, it's like I'm I leadwith type eight.
So I'm moving through thingsvery quick and everything is
urgent and everything is anemergency and it needs to be
fixed and controlled andeliminated right now.
And so in those moments, andsometimes even with reflections
(16:27):
of others of like this is anemergency, or you know, you're
going really quick, but reallynow even being able to reflect
on that myself of um, you'removing quickly.
Why?
Nothing about this needsimmediacy or needs urgency.
Um, we are just going to thepool, right?
We're not actually like doinganything professional.
Um, and so that's reallyhelpful of, you know, now that I
(16:49):
know it's really just a few keyindications.
Um, you know, that one otherone for me, because I'm a body
type, I have a lot of awarenessof my felt sensation.
Um, but I will kind of likecharge up, right?
It's like this like poweringup.
Um, or I heard an eight sayonce like the wolverine claws
are starting to like slowly seepout, but like I can feel like
I'm like powering up to takesomething on or to fix something
(17:11):
or to do something.
Um, and it's usually that I'vegotten pushed out of my window
of tolerance and I'm reallyactivated.
Beth McCord (17:17):
Well, and I I like to use the analogy, this might
help, you know, well, anyone, islike it's like you're driving
down a highway.
Okay.
And there, there's often timeswhere like we get dysregulated,
and that's when we're not reallyaware and paying attention to
what's going on.
So we're varying off the sideof the road.
And if we're not payingattention, we're just gonna fall
(17:37):
into the same common pitfalltime and time again.
And oftentimes when people cometo the Enneagram, they kind of
are throwing up their hands orwanting to pull their hair out.
Like, why am I doing thisagain?
And that's where the shame andcondemnation and guilt comes in.
Like, haven't I learned mylesson?
Well, I use this analogybecause the Enneagram is like a
rumble strip on the highway, youknow, that thing that alerts
(17:57):
you when you're going off courseand you're gonna fall into that
common pitfall.
And so what usually happens inour life is that we're not
aware, we're not payingattention.
And so when we hit that rumblestrip, we just go right past it
and into that ditch.
And then there's times wherewe're like, we finally start
using the Enneagram and we'relike, wait a second, there was a
rumble strip somewhere I couldhave listened to or paid
(18:20):
attention to, but I didn't.
I wonder where that was.
And so you can use that analogyto go, oh, back right there.
That's when I started to getactivated.
And if I would have been ableto be a little bit more aware, I
might have been able to correctcourse.
So the next time I'm in asimilar situation, I now know
that that is when I start to getactivated.
(18:42):
That's when I start to veer offcourse.
And I need to be awake, I needto be alert to that.
And so then over time, like yousaid, you might keep going over
that rumble strip time and timeagain.
But the more you work withthis, the more you'll see where
that was and to be alert.
And then finally there'll be aday where you're like, uh-oh, I
feel it.
Like for you, like all of asudden you feel your body
(19:04):
charging up.
You haven't done anything withit yet, but you're feeling that
charge.
And you're like, okay, wait,something's happening.
And it could be positive, itcould be negative, but
something's happening.
I know this feeling.
What does this mean?
For me, it is a sense ofpanicking and like, okay, well,
how do I make people happy?
Or um it could be um, yeah,just accommodating to people.
(19:25):
Well, I now know, or if Ithink, you know, my presence
doesn't matter, my uh voicedoesn't matter.
That is a huge rumble strip forme.
And so I can go, okay, wait,that is not true.
My voice does matter to myemployees, to my kids.
And so that's a false uhindicator.
And so what do I need to takehold of now?
(19:46):
So that's that rumble stripwhere I can go, okay, so it
might take me some time.
It doesn't like instantly go,oh, well, now I figured it out
and let's just get back on thehighway.
It takes some time.
Sometimes you're even ridingthat rumble strip for quite a
while.
And sometimes, yes,unfortunately, sometimes we do
fall into the common pitfall,but at least we're getting
recognition, we're makingprogress.
(20:07):
And then there will be timeswhere we're like, I see it, I
own it, and I'm able to correctcourse gently, not just trying
to like over-correct, but I'mgonna gently correct course.
And then over time, you'll seehow that becomes a little bit
easier and a little bit easier.
And then we recognize that whenwe do veer off course once
(20:27):
again, we don't need to use thatto shame ourselves.
It's like, yes, I did thatagain, and now it's time to
repair, repair with myself andrepair with others.
And that is almost just asimportant as anything we do in
our relationship is that repair.
But we can't repair really wellif we don't know what we did
and why we did it.
(20:48):
And so when we do know, we canthen ask for forgiveness
appropriately and own it andthen ask if they would forgive
and repair with us.
And they may or may not, butthat at least we've done the
work on our side.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Abbi Rodriguez (21:02):
And I think too, you know, I remember when I
first was learning theEnneagram.
And of course, um, so I one ofmy first exposures to the
Enneagram was through um theEnneagram Institute.
So Risso and Russ Hudson andsome of their certified
teachers.
And um, I remember the firsttime that the teacher talked
about uh self-compassion and anon-judgmental awareness, and my
achtness was like gross.
(21:23):
Like, I'll take the informationand I will not do that part.
And again, you know, I lovethat you highlight it because it
is it is so essential becauseotherwise, our personality is
just trying to fix ourpersonality, right?
So for me, it's like this justdoubling down and just being
tough and just keep going andjust bulldozing ahead without
(21:43):
any awareness of how I felt inthat moment or, you know, as I'm
interacting and bumping in toothers, awareness of what they
felt.
Um, and so thatself-compassion, it it helps to
kind of loosen the hold of ourtype.
So it's not so automatic andyou have a little bit of wiggle
room in it.
Um, but it's so, it's soessential.
It's not optional.
Um, and I go ahead.
Beth McCord (22:05):
Sorry.
Abbi Rodriguez (22:05):
Go ahead.
Well, yeah, I and I think justthat, right?
Like shame doesn't get usanywhere.
Um it only calcifies our type.
Beth McCord (22:12):
Yeah.
And I love working with typeeights um because whether it's
in the workplace or as a parent,whatever it is, this is a great
analogy because the world, Ifeel, unfortunate, unfortunately
does not understand the designof an eight.
And so they want to edit theeight, they want to change the
(22:32):
eight, they want the eight tobecome something all different.
And I talk about the eightsbeing a big diesel snow plow.
So up in the Midwest, thenorth, if you don't have these
big diesel snow plows to plowthe snow that comes on the
highways, no one's gettinganywhere.
You can't use just a littleFord pickup truck with a shovel
on it.
That's for the South.
You know, we need these real,really big diesel snow plows
(22:54):
because they plow a path forothers.
That is the gold, the heart ofan eight.
They really want to plow a pathfor others that others can't do
very well.
Now, that's wonderful when theeight is healthy and the eight
is like, hey, I see you guys, goahead and get behind me and
I've got this for you.
And then the aide's gonna plowthat path, and everyone's like,
(23:15):
oh, thank goodness.
Like, this is exactly what Ineeded.
So the strength is there, thepassion is there, the ability to
get it done is there.
But when the aide starts to bea little less aware, then like
you said, we're gonna startnicking cars on the side of the
road.
And and usually it's just totalunawareness.
It's like, hey, I'm I'm I'vegot this uh job to do, I need to
(23:35):
plow this path.
Why are you?
You know, and the people arelike, What do you why are you
doing that?
It's like, well, why are youthere?
I'm plowing the path, you know?
And so that's where theunawareness comes in.
But and then of course, youknow, the ate what like all of
us when we're really unhealthy,they might just go, I don't
really care.
I'm plowing a path.
Like, if you're in the way,that's your problem.
Now, when an aide is like,okay, I don't need to change who
(23:56):
I am, I don't need to become aFord pickup truck.
I need to be me and I need toset myself up for where I am
best used.
So in the workplace, yes, weneed eights to plow paths for
others, but we need it to bedone in that healthy realm.
And so we don't want to bringin the shame.
We don't want others to bringin shame, but we want to use the
(24:18):
information rightly so thatthey can be the best of who they
are.
Same as a mom.
I mean, as a mom, they are sofantastic plowing paths for
their kids, but they canoverplow when the kids might
need to do their own plowing andlearn how to do that.
Um, and so that I feel like issuch a great representation of
(24:38):
seeing your type for the beautythat it is versus bringing in
that shame.
It's just that we need to tweakthe personality to be utilized
in the correct way.
Abbi Rodriguez (24:49):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (24:49):
Does that resonate with you though, as an eight?
Abbi Rodriguez (24:51):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's always sointeresting.
I'm a self-preservation eight.
So I have a much more subduedpresence, more of a five
quality.
Um, and I also have a strongnine wing.
So I do, it's funny because umthere's a lot of uh it's a it's
always a yes, and then not asbig, right?
Like there's not as much overenergy.
(25:12):
Um, and and it's usually morecontained to my self-pres
qualities.
Um, you know, for example,yesterday my kiddo wanted to
have a sleepover with his buddy.
And my first thought was no,which is always no.
Um, and then I had to like dialmyself back.
Um, but because I was like, youhave BBS the next day, you need
to sleep.
(25:32):
I need you to be functioningand kind to your sister, which
you are have, you know, moretrouble when you don't have
sleep.
But all everything, all of myno's in my like trying to
control the situation um had alot to do with self-pres
qualities of like, I need you tosleep, eat, and like be well.
Um and so some of those things,right, of like I'm creating a
(25:53):
path of what it looks like forhim to move through this next
day with a lot of intensity anda and a strong no.
And it has much more to dowith, you know, not with the
bully on the playground, withlike, I want to make sure that
you eat and sleep so that youfunction well, so that I can
function well.
Beth McCord (26:09):
Exactly.
And I just think, you know, andthat's what's so beautiful
about the Enneagram.
Cause I know a lot of peopleare like, you mean there's only
nine types?
Like, you know, I'm like, well,when you really unpack it, it
like each type, if you make thema color, and you go to Sherman
Williams, there's a plethora ofpurples and blues.
And like you're not just yourtype.
(26:30):
There's so many facets aboutyou.
So, like for you being aself-prez versus a social versus
a one-to-one or sexual, likethere's like even in that,
there's so much variety, letalone talking about our wings
and all the other things thatare going on.
And I think that that's whatmakes the Enneagram so dynamic
and beautiful, because it reallyis about you.
(26:51):
How were you created?
How do you see the world?
How do you function in theworld?
And then how can you become thebest version of yourself?
And that's where I get back tothe why I wrote this book.
Because if I had this bookearlier on, like from this
perspective, I can't say I wouldhave been like, you know, free
and clear.
It's a lot of hard work nomatter what.
But I think I would have beenable to not see all the other
(27:12):
personalities and think there'ssomething wrong with me or I'm
not as good.
And just really like doubledown on who am I?
Why was I created this way?
And how can I get the best ofwho I am to my kiddos?
Abbi Rodriguez (27:25):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (27:26):
Yeah, definitely.
Abbi Rodriguez (27:28):
Um, one of the things I very much resonated
with as I was reading throughyour book with regards to type
eight, um, you know, you have asection in there where you kind
of talk about our naturalinclination is to try to parent
our kids to be the best parts ofour type, right?
The strengths of our type.
Um, and I think that inaddition to having some
awareness of why we are sotriggered based on our, you
(27:49):
know, our underlying motivationsand our fears, I think it's
also so helpful to thinkthrough, you know, what do we
value, right?
We always tend to moralize ourtype, the best parts of our
type, as if this is what isneeded in the world.
And um, as I read through that,that quality of type eight,
wanting to have this level ofresilience in their kid, you
know, especially um when I thinkabout my uh early parenting
(28:14):
years when my kiddos were young,you know, I've I've kind of
elementary age kiddos now, butin those early years, there was
so much of an underlyingmentality of like, I just need
you to be tougher, right?
Like I need you to get over itor to stand up for yourself or
for this to not be such a bigdeal.
And I think as I, you know, wassuch a gift to have the
(28:36):
Enneagram in those earlyparenting years, because even
though I didn't know how to fixthat quality of myself, I could
see it glaringly true.
And, you know, one of thethings that kept coming up in
conversation with my husband wasum, I feel like I just want
them to be tougher so that theycan make their way in the world
without me being there.
Um, and then realizing likethat's not the goal of
(28:57):
parenting, not just to make yourkids tougher, right?
If that's my punchline of like,and I need you to be tougher,
then I need to retrace my steps.
And that was really whatpropelled me into not just
Enneagram work, but also thework of um Dr.
Daniel Siegel, which you quotemultiple, you know, of his
parenting books and and some ofthose pieces.
Um, but really this level ofempathy that I had to build that
(29:20):
muscle because it wasn't asintuitive for me as an ate, um,
of genuine sitting with and thisnon-anxious presence to
actually understand and to buildpassion rather than me just
being the dictator that'screating commands and you have
to follow them.
Um, but for there to actuallybe character building in that.
And so that was a whole, youknow, the Enneagram was like my
(29:42):
launch pad into this whole worldof understanding.
Um, I don't know, I don't knowif it feels like an okay quat
like uh question and and requestto kind of walk through how
each of the nine types might tryto parent their kid to be their
type.
Um, you know, even in broadbrush.
Strokes.
But I'd love to kind of gothrough the nine.
Beth McCord (30:03):
Yeah.
And feel free to like chime inif you have any thoughts.
But like the type one isthey're trying to make little
principled reformers.
Like let's do things right.
Uh the type two is wanting tomake little nurturing
supporters.
Like, so let's be thoughtful ofother people's needs, their
feelings, and let's get thoseneeds met.
The type three are trying tomake little admirable achievers.
(30:26):
So let's achieve, let's excel,let's have an image that people
are going to admire.
Then we have the type four momswho are trying to make little
introspective individualistswhere they know themselves,
their authentic selves.
They're not just being likeeveryone else, that they stand
out.
The type five, they're wantingto have little um analytical
(30:47):
investigators.
So they want their kids to wantknowledge, to crave knowledge
and to sit with that knowledgeand be able to pull the
knowledge out whenever needed sothat they're ready for
whatever's gonna come their way.
Now, the type sixes, they aretrying to create little faithful
guardians, ones that aredutiful, they're responsible,
they um are also planning andpredicting what could happen and
(31:10):
make sure that bad things don'thappen.
So, like, because like kind oflike you, they're like, well,
are they gonna be able topredict things, you know, and
keep themselves safe?
So it's a lot about safety anddifferent could be relational
safety, could be physicalsafety, could be lots of
different safety.
Um, now the sevens, my dad's aseven, they're trying to create
little um enthusiasticoptimists.
(31:31):
I mean, let's keep everythinglighthearted, let's be happy,
like everything is great.
Oh, let's not deal with thosehard things.
Let's just spin it intosomething fun.
And that's what they're reallywanting with their kiddos.
Um, and like the eights,they're trying to make
passionate protectors,protectors of themselves and
protectors of others.
And so that totally makes sensewhen you were saying that is if
(31:54):
you are a passionate protectorof yourself, I feel as a mom,
I've done my job and I feel likeI can exhale and let you go
into the world.
But if you're not that way, I'mgonna be worried or I'm gonna
have to step in, I'm gonna haveto control.
And so that's what type eightsare usually doing, just as
default.
And then for me as a type nine,I'm trying to make little
(32:14):
peaceful accommodators.
Like, let's just get along,just go along with people, you
know, you know, just beflexible.
You know, your desires aren'tthe biggest thing in the world.
Like, let's just make peace andharmony wherever we go, be
empathetic, kind, and warm.
And like all of those thingsthat we that I just talked
about, there are really goodaspects to that.
(32:37):
And when we're at ourhealthiest, we are going to
impart those wonderful aspects.
The biggest thing I wantparents to recognize is that you
don't try to create manyversions of yourself.
So there's a difference inimparting good things to them
and allowing them to be them andincorporating your gifts into
their personality versus tryingto create little versions.
(33:01):
And I, we all do it because wesee the world through our own
lens, you know, our own glasses,you know.
So I see the world as a typenine.
Like, why wouldn't I want tohave little peaceful
accommodators?
Isn't that the way the world'ssupposed to be that we're all
getting along?
Well, yes, there's a reallywonderful aspect about peace and
harmony, but that's not thewhole spectrum.
(33:22):
And that's not the whole partof life.
And so I want to be curious asto who my kids were created to
be.
Now, you know, I know parents,like you said earlier, that we
just want to know their type andwe just want to parent their
type.
We want to either fix them orhelp them to be their best type.
And you just can't for a while.
So a lot of it comes aroundcuriosity, being curious about
(33:44):
them, being non-anxious andpresent, being uh aware and
attuned to who they are.
But so, like if I had, and thisis so important because if I
had a type eight child who wasprotecting themselves and
standing up, you know, to theinjustice of let's say their
sibling, you know, teasing andbullying them, you know, part of
(34:05):
me would be proud of that.
But then I a lot large part ofme would be wanting to tamp it
down, like, well, let's just getalong.
And so that can come acrosslike I'm not listening well.
Now, do I want them to getalong?
Yes.
Are there good aspects that Ican impart?
Yes.
But am I helping my type eightchild to grow up to see their
(34:27):
personality as a blessing?
Now, if I don't know their typeas that, I can still be
curious, like, okay, they'revery different than me.
They're strong, they'reassertive, they're gonna say
what they need to say.
So they're probably, you know,in some sort of aggressive
stance, or, you know, maybe,maybe not, but we're probably
different.
And so, how can I nurture that?
How can I steer that qualityinto the best place for them
(34:52):
while also imparting myself?
So, and it's so hard because wedo it with everyone, whether
it's our kids, our spouse, ourco-workers, our bosses, we want
them to be us or at least seethe world the way we do and do
it the way we do it.
And that is kind of the mysteryand the beauty of life is that
it's never that way.
And how are we gonnaparticipate in those
relationships is the key.
Abbi Rodriguez (35:12):
Yeah, definitely.
And and I love that invitationto curiosity.
You know, I think sometimes umit, you know, when people ask of
like, well, how do I figure itout?
Or what do you think they are?
And and that sense of like,just tell me the answer.
Um, but the answer really iscuriosity, especially until they
get into some of those lateryears.
Um, but I think too, like thereit is, there is really a
(35:34):
genuine invitation with thatcuriosity to even in your mind
ask some of those thosequestions of like, I wonder if
this is why they did that,right?
Rather than just, you know, whyare they having this quote
unquote bad behavior?
But instead of like, I wonderif that was like really
anxiety-producing for them, or Iwonder why they got so angry so
quickly, or I wonder why thatwas embarrassing for them.
(35:56):
I wouldn't have beenembarrassed, but I wonder why it
was for them.
Um, you know, some of thosequalities that I think uh if we
can really take on the lens ofasking that question of, you
know, that peculiarity ratherthan assuming it would be the
way that it was for us, um, oflike, why?
Why did that bother them somuch?
Or why did we have such a bigreaction to that?
(36:18):
Um, and as they get older, youknow, you can start to ask some
of those questions, even insimple ways.
Um, you know, one of the giftsthat I feel like um that I was
offered along the way of justmirroring back that emotion by
asking the question of, you seemreally angry, what's going on,
buddy?
You know, or you seem reallyembarrassed.
I, you know, and then they cancorrect you like, no, I wasn't
(36:40):
embarrassed, I was afraid,right?
And they can correct whatemotion that they're
experiencing, but starting inthat conversation and getting
some language around what'sgoing on in their interior
world.
Um, and I think the other partof that, too, that I find myself
having to remind myself of justbecause it's, you know,
oftentimes when we're parenting,we kind of react to our
(37:01):
parenting experience, right?
We try to give them the thingsthat we wish that they would
have had.
And there's great versions ofthat.
But then also realizing um whatis valuable to us, it may not
really rank very valuable tothem.
And so, although this feels someaningful to be so intentional
and so authentic, or to givethem so many opportunities to
(37:21):
shine, or to create so muchspace for them to connect with
others, right?
It may not rank very valuableto them.
And we might be going, youknow, extending all this energy
to create this experience thatthey they actually could have,
you know, take it or leave it.
unknown (37:36):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (37:36):
I mean, like I'll just use me as an example.
I had great parents.
Um, my mom was a six, veryphobic six, and my dad was a
very fun seven.
Um, and so my mom and dad, theyboth love to be busy.
Well, my mom liked to be busywith responsibilities, and my
dad loved to be busy with hiswork.
He was an allergist and he waspassionate about it.
And then he had lots of otherlike things that he was busy
(37:59):
with.
And so they love talking aboutbeing busy, busy, busy.
We're so busy, you know.
And it was like this like uhbadge of honor.
Well, I'm a type nine.
Like I'm like, I don't carethat you're busy.
In fact, I would like for younot to be busy.
I just want you to be with me,to be present with me.
And so, you know, as a littlekid, I kind of just felt at
(38:22):
times like, well, why are you sobusy?
And why do you think that's soimportant?
Like, why can't you just and soit felt like this real big
disconnect, but they probablythought they were imparting
like, we're, you know, we'reworking hard and we're, you
know, we're providing for thefamily and all those things.
And though those are great, butlike you were saying, they
think they're impartingsomething that I would
(38:44):
appreciate.
And I didn't now, maybe anothertype of kid would.
Um, I mean, I know all kidsreally want that attunement and
stuff, but I just really wantedto chill on the couch and maybe
watch TV or have a fire or, youknow, just be with them and not
always go, go, go.
But there's a lot of thepersonalities that do love to
(39:06):
go, go, go, you know, and theywould not understand that world
of the nine or know what to dowith that world.
And so I think that's reallylike what you're saying is so
important is to have thatcuriosity and try different
things because I mean, youyou're not gonna know the kids'
type until they name their type,until they know, and it's not
until they're, you know, like alittle bit older, like teenage
(39:27):
years, if you're lucky, ifthey're kind of an old soul or
later.
And so the curiosity comes inand then you just try some
different things.
Um, you know, let me see ifthis lands on them well.
Does this feel, you know?
And I think for me as a kid, ifmy parents were just going to
be curious and ask goodquestions, or why, why are you
(39:49):
frustrated that we're so busy onthe weekend?
Well, because I just want to bewith you.
And to hear the heart behindit, I think that's what's so
important.
Not to hear the heart in thesense that I'm accusatory of the
parent, like they're alwaysdoing something wrong.
But the parent, that's wherethe self-regulation comes in and
being a non-anxious presence,like, okay, I need to set aside
what might activate me and Ineed to listen to my kid.
(40:11):
So if you know what activatesyou, then you can listen a
little bit further with yourchild when you're being curious.
And instead of it being anaccusation, it's an invitation.
Abbi Rodriguez (40:22):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think too, you know,there are some broad
brushstrokes that you can pickup on with your kids.
Like even you said, you know,maybe they're in a certificance,
right?
And I think subtypes feelreally obvious to me with kids,
right?
Because, and a lot of timesbecause they're nurtured.
So then sometimes it's just acombination of you and your
partner.
Um, but I think some of thosethings too, you know, even for
(40:45):
my husband and I, so my husbandleaves with type seven.
And one of the things werealized very quickly before our
kids could even really talk wasthat we were gonna have to be
really mindful about our speed.
Otherwise, our kids' childhoodis gonna feel like whiplash
because we can have a thoughtand go do it or go do something
and then think about it later.
And there's just a lot of speedand being up for it.
(41:07):
And so, you know, even now asour kids have gotten older, one
of our kids is very much up forit.
And then the other one has apretty strong inner world and is
more of a homebody.
And so being mindful of whatthat experience is like for him,
um, because that, you know,having two parents that are
very, very leaning in thatassertive stance, um, that can
(41:28):
feel like a lot of energy and alot of four momentum that we
don't want him to feel like he'salways getting hold along or
he's trying to catch up.
Beth McCord (41:35):
Yeah.
And I love that because I had aum a coaching client that was a
type eight and her husband wasa three.
So very similar.
Like, go, go, go.
Um, and then we're gonna go toEurope.
And they had just discoveredthat their uh teenage son was a
five, and everything started tomake sense.
And so she was like, Beth, youknow, I have everything planned
out.
Like, you know, me and myhusband as a three and an eight,
(41:56):
like we've got the days plannedout and we're gonna like get it
so much done.
And she was like, Oh, wait,what about him?
And I said, Okay, here, let'stalk it through.
And so we talked it through.
And I said, This is what he'sgonna need.
You're gonna need to check inwith him.
Where is his interactivebattery life?
Is he feeling like he's at fivepercent and you're about ready
(42:17):
to go off and do the next thing?
It's gonna be good to check inwith his battery life to see
when does he need to rechargeand how would he like to
recharge and not to take it as apersonal thing that he doesn't
want to be with the family or dothe fun things, but he has his
own sets of needs anyway.
So, of course, we workedthrough all that and talked
through it.
And then I went to Europe and Iran into them uh one day.
(42:37):
And she was like, It was thebest vacation we have ever been
on.
And I was just like, Yay! Youknow, so they all got to enjoy
it because they were all able tosee themselves really for who
they are and to celebrate oneanother.
And that's that's why theInnergram is so powerful.
And if we use it correctly, wedon't use it as a sword or as a
shield, we want to use itcorrectly.
(43:00):
And when we do, we enjoyourselves and who we are, but we
also get to enjoy those aroundus.
Abbi Rodriguez (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Um, I know that we could talkforever and ever.
Um, but as we kind of wrap upour time together, um, would you
share with listeners about howthey can be engaged in your work
and how you know they can findyour book and kind of what
you're up to these days, too?
Beth McCord (43:21):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So everything is at yourIntegramCoach.com.
So that's my handle onInstagram and Facebook as well.
We have a podcast, YourIntegram Coach, the podcast.
Um, the book, Anygram for Moms,is coming out July 9th.
And you can also go to anygramfor moms.com.
And we've got pre-order bonusesthere.
You've got lots of otherfreebies that you can kind of
(43:43):
grab and utilize as a parent.
And so we just really want, wewant families to thrive.
And I believe part of that isknowing ourselves well enough so
that we can really be there forour kids and that non-anxious
connected presence.
So that's where they can findme.
Abbi Rodriguez (43:58):
Okay, I love that.
And I will link all thosepieces in the show notes too, so
that it's easy to find you.
Um, thank you so much for beingon the podcast.
It's it's always such a gift toget to connect with other
Enneagram practitioners and kindof their slice of the Enneagram
and their world that they'reoccupying.
Um, but I'm I'm so excited tobe able to offer, you know, this
resource to to parents.
(44:19):
And again, you know, everyfacet of the Enneagram is
helpful with every facet ofrelationship, relationship to
self and relationship to others.
Um, and so I know that thiswill really be a resource for
them.
So thanks for being on theshow.
Thanks, Sampy.
Beth McCord (44:30):
I love being here.
Hey Ennegram friends, I'm Abby, an IEA
accredited Ennegram teacher andcoach.
I teach Ennegram workshops withcorporate and nonprofit teams,
and I also facilitate executivecoaching as part of that
professional developmentexperience.
I'd love to bring the Enneagramto your workplace.
Today on the podcast, I'mjoined by fellow Ennegram
(00:22):
practitioner, Beth McCortin.
She's the founder of YourEnnegram Coach and is an
Ennegram speaker, coach, author,and teacher, and has been for
over the past 20 years.
She's passionate about comingalongside individuals and
helping them rewrite theirstory, allowing them to see
lasting change, meaningfulrelationships, and a life that's
possible of deep purpose.
(00:43):
Today on the podcast, wespecifically talk about her new
book, The Enneagram from Moms,that will be released in July.
And so I'm excited to sharethis conversation with you.
As always, I hope you listen inwith curiosity and see what
resonates in your experience.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
It's really great to have youas a guest and to be able to
(01:06):
talk more about your book.
So thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks, Abby.
It's so great to be here.
So I know that we could talkabout lots of different topics
and lots of different facets ofthe Enneagram.
Um, but I would specificallylove to talk about your new book
that is coming out in July, um,The Enneagram for Moms.
So if you um just kind ofstarting our conversation, I'd
(01:28):
love to know why you wrote thisbook.
Beth McCord (01:30):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
Great place to start.
So I started using Enneagramwhen I was 26 years old.
So this is back in 2001, a longtime ago.
Um, and it was during thatseason when my kids were one and
three years old, that I justdid not understand myself.
I didn't understand why thingswould trip me up, you know,
(01:51):
being a mom and being a parent.
Um, and so I had a friend thatuh let me know about the
Enneagram.
And so I started reading aboutit and I was like, oh my gosh,
this is amazing.
And how do they know this aboutme?
Um, but one particular day thatthat really comes to mind is I
would take my kids to theplayground.
My husband was in seminary, andso a bunch of us lived on
(02:11):
campus.
And so we would take them tothe playground, and I would just
look at all these moms and belike, oh my gosh, she is such a
strong mom.
Like she really knows what todo and she's just very
assertive, but you know, butkind.
And then I look at another momand go, oh, she's so creative
and like she's able to be therewith her kids emotionally.
And then, you know, I would saythat about all the moms in my
(02:34):
head.
And every time I would do that,I would kind of put myself down
a little bit more and a littlebit more.
And then I'd come home and Iwould kind of tell Jeff, you
know, how I was feeling.
And he helped me to understandthat I was basically putting all
the best qualities of thesemoms into one super woman and
thinking that she exists, like Icould become that person.
(02:55):
Yeah.
And he's like, Bet that doesn'texist.
And in fact, those women, youknow, they're doing like they're
putting on their best in frontof others.
You don't know what they'restruggling with behind closed
doors.
And I was like, Oh, you'reright.
And the fact that I amliterally creating an image or a
person that I think I shouldbecome, and it doesn't exist.
(03:18):
And so by reading theEnneagram, it helped me to go,
oh, I'm a type nine.
I was created to be a type ninemom for my kiddos.
I wasn't created to be a typefour mom or a five or a six, as
wonderful as that would havebeen.
I was created to be a type ninemom.
So what does that mean?
It's not, it doesn't mean Ineed to be this superwoman with
(03:40):
all the best characteristics inthe world.
I have my own characteristics,strengths, and liabilities that
I need to focus on to become mybest self.
And so I wanted to write a bookfor moms to recognize that they
are beautiful in their owntype.
And the whole goal is to reallybecome the best version of
(04:01):
yourself for your kiddos, nomatter what types they are and
whether you get to find outtheir types for quite a while or
not.
So when we can do our ownpersonal work, we will really be
fabulous moms no matter whattype we are.
Abbi Rodriguez (04:14):
Yeah.
And and I love that quality ofeven um, you know, you talk
about it so much in the book,which I've I've loved getting to
look through and read throughthe book ahead of time, but
really just this invitation tofocus on self first rather than
trying to figure out yourkiddos.
You know, as I interact withclients and in workshops and
(04:34):
individual coaching, out of thisgenuine desire to show up well
as a parent and do thatrelationship well, uh, the
questions always come up of, youknow, how do I figure out my
kids' type and how old do theyneed to be?
Right.
And those are all really goodquestions.
Um, and I I always love thecuriosity of it.
But, you know, and you talkabout this in your book, this
(04:55):
the sense of sometimes we'retrying to figure out our kids so
then we can fix them, orsometimes I think even um pander
to their type a little bit.
And really this genuineinvitation from your book to
focus on yourself first and andcultivating that robust
self-awareness of your internalworld.
So I'd love to hear you talkjust a little bit more about um
(05:16):
kind of that vital piece ofself-awareness and how that
really does impact yourparenting.
If you start first withyourself, even if you have no
idea what your kiddos type isand maybe not for a long time.
Beth McCord (05:29):
Yeah.
And I know that we talked aboutthat a lot of your audience is
in the workspace.
And it really, the Innegram isso powerful just in any
relationship dynamic.
And even if I was in theworkspace, I would say the same
thing.
It starts with you.
Um, I know just like anyoneelse, it feels like it's
everyone else that's creating myinternal problems, but we can
(05:51):
actually learn to grow inself-regulation, uh, being more
sober-minded, meaning we're notjust all over the place.
Um, and so with being a parent,it's the same way, because you
could have nine kids and they'reall the different nine types.
And yes, some might activateyou more than others, but why?
The whole point is why.
(06:12):
And the Enneagram gets to thatwhy.
And when you can understand whyyou're getting activated, then
you have the opportunity tobecome self-regulated, to get to
a place where you can enterinto that relationship.
Again, maybe it's with yourboss or your employee or a
coworker, you can enter intothat relationship in a whole
(06:32):
different way because you canactually engage in that
relationship, then react to thesituation.
And I mean, just kind of giveyou an example, I'm a type nine,
the peaceful accommodator.
And if I see, let's say, mykids start whining or they're
upset about something andthey're not happy.
Well, I start to feel like I'mbeing a really bad mom.
(06:53):
Well, why?
Because I can see other momsthat are like, they don't feel
this way, you know.
You know, yeah, they don'tprobably want their kids to
whine, but there's differentreasons for why.
But for me as a type nine, Idon't like conflict and I feel
that I must make everybodyhappy.
Abbi Rodriguez (07:08):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (07:08):
Well, sad news, no one can make anyone fully happy.
And so I'm like, okay, so doesthat mean I'm gonna be unhappy
my whole life?
No, I that I don't have to livethat life.
And so what I have to recognizeis okay, why do I get activated
that way?
And my core motivations reallypoint to the fact that yes, I
(07:30):
don't like conflict.
I don't like people beingupset.
I want harmony, I want peace.
And that's okay.
It's not wrong gettingactivated, it's what I do with
it.
Now, as a type nine, my typicalgo-to is to forget myself and
go along to get along, thinkingI can make people happy and then
everything is going to be okay.
(07:50):
Well, it's not true.
So, what do I need to recognizeabout that in the moment is
that okay, uh, it's totallyunderstandable that I want peace
and harmony.
I want people happy, but whatis needed in this moment as a
mom to these kiddos, what dothey need and what do I need?
And that's an important,especially for nine, what do I
(08:11):
need is an important part tointegrate.
So once I understand, okay, I Ias a mom want them to make the
bed or put the dishes away,whatever it is, and they're not
gonna be happy about it.
I have in my mind settled inon, okay, this is what I'm
wanting.
And I know the outcome might bethat they whine and complain.
(08:31):
What am I gonna do about thatwhen that happens?
Because it's going to activateme.
That's not a bad or wrongthing.
But when I get activated, howam I going to approach that
situation?
Will I be able to benon-anxious and a connected
presence with them?
Or am I going to be reactiveand just make everything, you
know, either I'll be like upsetthat they're making my life hard
(08:53):
because now I feel like I'm notmaking them happy, or am I
going to throw it all back ontothem and make them feel like
they're just doing terriblethings because they don't want
to do the dishes or make theirbed?
So this gives us theopportunity to understand our
internal world.
And to, of course, it takes along time to really understand
(09:14):
our internal world and to havethis emotional self-regulation,
but it is so worth it.
And I kind of explained thatthroughout the whole book.
And like I said, this isn'tjust about parenting, this is
every single relationship thatwe have.
And when we're able to be moreself-regulated, we are able to
bring the best of who we are.
And not only does that blesseveryone else around us, we get
(09:36):
to enjoy life on a whole newlevel.
And that doesn't mean we'rehappy or life is perfect.
It's that we can enjoy lifewith whatever it's giving us in
that moment.
Abbi Rodriguez (09:47):
Yeah, definitely.
And, you know, when we talkabout this, this emotional
regulation, right?
Or um, you know, so I I'malmost as I am also a somatic
practitioner.
And so that awareness of, youknow, you talk about aware in
the sense of having some senseof your emotions in real time,
your thoughts in real time, yourbodily sensations in real time.
(10:07):
And cultivating that awareness,it does take time.
You know, I think sometimeswe're so used to the quick fix
of things.
And, you know, there is, Iheard someone say once the
Enneagram is it's easy to be astudent of and it's very
difficult to be a master of,right?
Because it's really easy tostart the process, but it takes
a long time to really embody thewisdom of it and and all the
(10:31):
other pieces that go with it.
Um, and so letting it be aprocess with an incredible
amount of graciousness toourselves in those moments when,
you know, we blow up at ourkids and that wasn't um how we
wanted to show up, or it wasn'thonoring of who we actually are
in the world.
Uh, we just got triggered or wegot really activated and we
didn't realize it untilhindsight.
So now we got to go back andrepair.
(10:52):
Um, but I I would love, I lovehow you uh talked through kind
of this framework of aware andjust these different pieces,
because this is often thequestion um that I get and kind
of process through it really thesense of like, I know my type
or I know what I'm supposed todo, but then I feel like all I'm
doing is apologizing for mytype, right?
(11:13):
It's it's hard to notice it inreal time and pause to make a
choice differently of how wewant to show up.
So even if you would just kindof walk through this aware
framework and and how we mightkind of embody this awareness of
ourselves.
Absolutely.
Excuse me.
Beth McCord (11:28):
Yeah.
So what the AWARE um acronymis, is it goes through obviously
the letters of aware, which isA is awaken, W is welcome, the
next A is ask, then R isreceive, and the last letter is
E or engage.
And so we want people toawaken, just like you had said,
awaken to our thoughts,feelings, and body sensations
(11:51):
and inclinations.
So, like, what is actuallyhappening in the moment?
So let's say you get activatedand triggered and you're brand
new to the Enneagram.
Well, you might not even knowquite yet anything.
You know, like when I was a,you know, newly at this
Enneagram stuff, I wouldn't haveunderstood why am I so upset
that they're whining?
You know, because all night,like I said, online types can do
(12:13):
the same thing, but it's thewhy that's different.
So why am I feeling like this?
Or let's say my boss is upsetwith me.
Why do I feel like I want tocrumble inside?
Not everybody else feels it tothat point or that extreme.
Well, then once I start to uhget into the Enneagram, I'm
like, oh, I don't like conflict,I don't like tension, I don't
(12:34):
like being overlooked by otherpeople.
And so that is activatingsomething in me.
And so it's that awarenessthat's really helpful.
And different types are gonnause like body sensations to give
them clues.
Me wanting to like uh withdrawor hightail it out of there, you
know, or like get under thecovers, you know, that is a good
(12:55):
signal for a nine that yeah,something's activating you.
Whereas maybe a type eight islike, you know what, I'm just
gonna be a snow plow, I'm gonnaplow right over you, you know,
because and it's like, why do Ifeel like doing that?
You know, so we all havedifferent um activations inside
us.
And so that's where theintegram can really be helpful.
It's a tool of self-discovery.
So you can use this tool tomake you aware of why you're
(13:17):
thinking, feeling, and havingthese body sensations.
Now, the W is almost the mostimportant part because if you
don't do the W, this all isgoing to derail.
So the W is welcome.
We want to welcome thesethoughts, feelings, and
sensations, this awareness ofwhat's going on without shame,
self-condemnation, andcriticalness towards ourselves.
(13:37):
Now that's hard because that'skind of like how our society
teaches us to be.
It's our natural just bentusually is to put ourselves down
or maybe put someone else down.
But how can we just look atthis situation and this
awareness with a non-judgmentalstance and receive it?
So that's important becauseotherwise you're going to
literally just keep going in thesame cycle over and over.
(13:59):
Then we want to ask and we wantto ask for what's true that
could be asking ourselves, isthis really true?
Is this what's going on?
Maybe we need to ask anotherperson that we're close to.
This is what I wasexperiencing.
Do you think this is true?
Now it's not to try to get yourown perspective back from
someone, but what is actuallyhappening in that moment?
Maybe you need to read a bookthat has truth on whatever topic
(14:22):
it is.
And so we want to gather truthand then we need to receive that
truth.
Cause, like you said, you canknow the truth, but are you
actually going to receive thetruth and actually do something
with the truth?
And the E is then to engagewith that truth in a new way in
your relationships.
And so that's the AWAREacronym.
Now, like you said, it's supersimple to read and go, yeah,
(14:43):
that totally makes sense, butit's hard to do.
And so if we just take it stepby step during when we get
activated, maybe we need to say,hey, I need a timeout, I need
to go think and process what'sgoing on.
It might take uh, you know, fora while some some time to go
through this, but then as you dothe aware process, whether you
do the actual letters or you dosomething that another teacher
(15:06):
does, just becoming aware,you'll get used to it and you
can actually start doing it inthe moment.
And you're like, oh, this iswhat's going on.
And that can be reallybeneficial for you in the moment
of these relationships.
Yeah, definitely.
Abbi Rodriguez (15:20):
And I think even, you know, I always say
it's helpful to notice it afterthe fact.
And then the more that younotice it, right, we can kind of
shorten that window of time oflike we noticed it the next day,
or now we notice it an hour or30 seconds after, and now we're
noticing it in real time.
And and really giving us somespace, you know, if we can
reflect on it afterwards andkind of go through what can feel
(15:42):
really challenging to go backand apologize, whether that is
to that moment of you know,rupture with our kiddos or in
the way that we treated someone.
Um, but also it gives us a lotof information about what it
looks like for us to bedysregulated or what it looks
like when we're triggered, orwhen we, you know, I would say
push out of our window oftolerance.
Because oftentimes it's usuallya handful of the same things.
(16:06):
You know, for me, when I'mgetting pushed out of my window
of tolerance, I get reallyquick.
You know, it's like I'm I leadwith type eight.
So I'm moving through thingsvery quick and everything is
urgent and everything is anemergency and it needs to be
fixed and controlled andeliminated right now.
And so in those moments, andsometimes even with reflections
(16:27):
of others of like this is anemergency, or you know, you're
going really quick, but reallynow even being able to reflect
on that myself of um, you'removing quickly.
Why?
Nothing about this needsimmediacy or needs urgency.
Um, we are just going to thepool, right?
We're not actually like doinganything professional.
Um, and so that's reallyhelpful of, you know, now that I
(16:49):
know it's really just a few keyindications.
Um, you know, that one otherone for me, because I'm a body
type, I have a lot of awarenessof my felt sensation.
Um, but I will kind of likecharge up, right?
It's like this like poweringup.
Um, or I heard an eight sayonce like the wolverine claws
are starting to like slowly seepout, but like I can feel like
I'm like powering up to takesomething on or to fix something
(17:11):
or to do something.
Um, and it's usually that I'vegotten pushed out of my window
of tolerance and I'm reallyactivated.
Beth McCord (17:17):
Well, and I I like to use the analogy, this might
help, you know, well, anyone, islike it's like you're driving
down a highway.
Okay.
And there, there's often timeswhere like we get dysregulated,
and that's when we're not reallyaware and paying attention to
what's going on.
So we're varying off the sideof the road.
And if we're not payingattention, we're just gonna fall
(17:37):
into the same common pitfalltime and time again.
And oftentimes when people cometo the Enneagram, they kind of
are throwing up their hands orwanting to pull their hair out.
Like, why am I doing thisagain?
And that's where the shame andcondemnation and guilt comes in.
Like, haven't I learned mylesson?
Well, I use this analogybecause the Enneagram is like a
rumble strip on the highway, youknow, that thing that alerts
(17:57):
you when you're going off courseand you're gonna fall into that
common pitfall.
And so what usually happens inour life is that we're not
aware, we're not payingattention.
And so when we hit that rumblestrip, we just go right past it
and into that ditch.
And then there's times wherewe're like, we finally start
using the Enneagram and we'relike, wait a second, there was a
rumble strip somewhere I couldhave listened to or paid
(18:20):
attention to, but I didn't.
I wonder where that was.
And so you can use that analogyto go, oh, back right there.
That's when I started to getactivated.
And if I would have been ableto be a little bit more aware, I
might have been able to correctcourse.
So the next time I'm in asimilar situation, I now know
that that is when I start to getactivated.
(18:42):
That's when I start to veer offcourse.
And I need to be awake, I needto be alert to that.
And so then over time, like yousaid, you might keep going over
that rumble strip time and timeagain.
But the more you work withthis, the more you'll see where
that was and to be alert.
And then finally there'll be aday where you're like, uh-oh, I
feel it.
Like for you, like all of asudden you feel your body
(19:04):
charging up.
You haven't done anything withit yet, but you're feeling that
charge.
And you're like, okay, wait,something's happening.
And it could be positive, itcould be negative, but
something's happening.
I know this feeling.
What does this mean?
For me, it is a sense ofpanicking and like, okay, well,
how do I make people happy?
Or um it could be um, yeah,just accommodating to people.
(19:25):
Well, I now know, or if Ithink, you know, my presence
doesn't matter, my uh voicedoesn't matter.
That is a huge rumble strip forme.
And so I can go, okay, wait,that is not true.
My voice does matter to myemployees, to my kids.
And so that's a false uhindicator.
And so what do I need to takehold of now?
(19:46):
So that's that rumble stripwhere I can go, okay, so it
might take me some time.
It doesn't like instantly go,oh, well, now I figured it out
and let's just get back on thehighway.
It takes some time.
Sometimes you're even ridingthat rumble strip for quite a
while.
And sometimes, yes,unfortunately, sometimes we do
fall into the common pitfall,but at least we're getting
recognition, we're makingprogress.
(20:07):
And then there will be timeswhere we're like, I see it, I
own it, and I'm able to correctcourse gently, not just trying
to like over-correct, but I'mgonna gently correct course.
And then over time, you'll seehow that becomes a little bit
easier and a little bit easier.
And then we recognize that whenwe do veer off course once
(20:27):
again, we don't need to use thatto shame ourselves.
It's like, yes, I did thatagain, and now it's time to
repair, repair with myself andrepair with others.
And that is almost just asimportant as anything we do in
our relationship is that repair.
But we can't repair really wellif we don't know what we did
and why we did it.
(20:48):
And so when we do know, we canthen ask for forgiveness
appropriately and own it andthen ask if they would forgive
and repair with us.
And they may or may not, butthat at least we've done the
work on our side.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Abbi Rodriguez (21:02):
And I think too, you know, I remember when I
first was learning theEnneagram.
And of course, um, so I one ofmy first exposures to the
Enneagram was through um theEnneagram Institute.
So Risso and Russ Hudson andsome of their certified
teachers.
And um, I remember the firsttime that the teacher talked
about uh self-compassion and anon-judgmental awareness, and my
achtness was like gross.
(21:23):
Like, I'll take the informationand I will not do that part.
And again, you know, I lovethat you highlight it because it
is it is so essential becauseotherwise, our personality is
just trying to fix ourpersonality, right?
So for me, it's like this justdoubling down and just being
tough and just keep going andjust bulldozing ahead without
(21:43):
any awareness of how I felt inthat moment or, you know, as I'm
interacting and bumping in toothers, awareness of what they
felt.
Um, and so thatself-compassion, it it helps to
kind of loosen the hold of ourtype.
So it's not so automatic andyou have a little bit of wiggle
room in it.
Um, but it's so, it's soessential.
It's not optional.
Um, and I go ahead.
Beth McCord (22:05):
Sorry.
Abbi Rodriguez (22:05):
Go ahead.
Well, yeah, I and I think justthat, right?
Like shame doesn't get usanywhere.
Um it only calcifies our type.
Beth McCord (22:12):
Yeah.
And I love working with typeeights um because whether it's
in the workplace or as a parent,whatever it is, this is a great
analogy because the world, Ifeel, unfortunate, unfortunately
does not understand the designof an eight.
And so they want to edit theeight, they want to change the
(22:32):
eight, they want the eight tobecome something all different.
And I talk about the eightsbeing a big diesel snow plow.
So up in the Midwest, thenorth, if you don't have these
big diesel snow plows to plowthe snow that comes on the
highways, no one's gettinganywhere.
You can't use just a littleFord pickup truck with a shovel
on it.
That's for the South.
You know, we need these real,really big diesel snow plows
(22:54):
because they plow a path forothers.
That is the gold, the heart ofan eight.
They really want to plow a pathfor others that others can't do
very well.
Now, that's wonderful when theeight is healthy and the eight
is like, hey, I see you guys, goahead and get behind me and
I've got this for you.
And then the aide's gonna plowthat path, and everyone's like,
(23:15):
oh, thank goodness.
Like, this is exactly what Ineeded.
So the strength is there, thepassion is there, the ability to
get it done is there.
But when the aide starts to bea little less aware, then like
you said, we're gonna startnicking cars on the side of the
road.
And and usually it's just totalunawareness.
It's like, hey, I'm I'm I'vegot this uh job to do, I need to
(23:35):
plow this path.
Why are you?
You know, and the people arelike, What do you why are you
doing that?
It's like, well, why are youthere?
I'm plowing the path, you know?
And so that's where theunawareness comes in.
But and then of course, youknow, the ate what like all of
us when we're really unhealthy,they might just go, I don't
really care.
I'm plowing a path.
Like, if you're in the way,that's your problem.
Now, when an aide is like,okay, I don't need to change who
(23:56):
I am, I don't need to become aFord pickup truck.
I need to be me and I need toset myself up for where I am
best used.
So in the workplace, yes, weneed eights to plow paths for
others, but we need it to bedone in that healthy realm.
And so we don't want to bringin the shame.
We don't want others to bringin shame, but we want to use the
(24:18):
information rightly so thatthey can be the best of who they
are.
Same as a mom.
I mean, as a mom, they are sofantastic plowing paths for
their kids, but they canoverplow when the kids might
need to do their own plowing andlearn how to do that.
Um, and so that I feel like issuch a great representation of
(24:38):
seeing your type for the beautythat it is versus bringing in
that shame.
It's just that we need to tweakthe personality to be utilized
in the correct way.
Abbi Rodriguez (24:49):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (24:49):
Does that resonate with you though, as an eight?
Abbi Rodriguez (24:51):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's always sointeresting.
I'm a self-preservation eight.
So I have a much more subduedpresence, more of a five
quality.
Um, and I also have a strongnine wing.
So I do, it's funny because umthere's a lot of uh it's a it's
always a yes, and then not asbig, right?
Like there's not as much overenergy.
(25:12):
Um, and and it's usually morecontained to my self-pres
qualities.
Um, you know, for example,yesterday my kiddo wanted to
have a sleepover with his buddy.
And my first thought was no,which is always no.
Um, and then I had to like dialmyself back.
Um, but because I was like, youhave BBS the next day, you need
to sleep.
(25:32):
I need you to be functioningand kind to your sister, which
you are have, you know, moretrouble when you don't have
sleep.
But all everything, all of myno's in my like trying to
control the situation um had alot to do with self-pres
qualities of like, I need you tosleep, eat, and like be well.
Um and so some of those things,right, of like I'm creating a
(25:53):
path of what it looks like forhim to move through this next
day with a lot of intensity anda and a strong no.
And it has much more to dowith, you know, not with the
bully on the playground, withlike, I want to make sure that
you eat and sleep so that youfunction well, so that I can
function well.
Beth McCord (26:09):
Exactly.
And I just think, you know, andthat's what's so beautiful
about the Enneagram.
Cause I know a lot of peopleare like, you mean there's only
nine types?
Like, you know, I'm like, well,when you really unpack it, it
like each type, if you make thema color, and you go to Sherman
Williams, there's a plethora ofpurples and blues.
And like you're not just yourtype.
(26:30):
There's so many facets aboutyou.
So, like for you being aself-prez versus a social versus
a one-to-one or sexual, likethere's like even in that,
there's so much variety, letalone talking about our wings
and all the other things thatare going on.
And I think that that's whatmakes the Enneagram so dynamic
and beautiful, because it reallyis about you.
(26:51):
How were you created?
How do you see the world?
How do you function in theworld?
And then how can you become thebest version of yourself?
And that's where I get back tothe why I wrote this book.
Because if I had this bookearlier on, like from this
perspective, I can't say I wouldhave been like, you know, free
and clear.
It's a lot of hard work nomatter what.
But I think I would have beenable to not see all the other
(27:12):
personalities and think there'ssomething wrong with me or I'm
not as good.
And just really like doubledown on who am I?
Why was I created this way?
And how can I get the best ofwho I am to my kiddos?
Abbi Rodriguez (27:25):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (27:26):
Yeah, definitely.
Abbi Rodriguez (27:28):
Um, one of the things I very much resonated
with as I was reading throughyour book with regards to type
eight, um, you know, you have asection in there where you kind
of talk about our naturalinclination is to try to parent
our kids to be the best parts ofour type, right?
The strengths of our type.
Um, and I think that inaddition to having some
awareness of why we are sotriggered based on our, you
(27:49):
know, our underlying motivationsand our fears, I think it's
also so helpful to thinkthrough, you know, what do we
value, right?
We always tend to moralize ourtype, the best parts of our
type, as if this is what isneeded in the world.
And um, as I read through that,that quality of type eight,
wanting to have this level ofresilience in their kid, you
know, especially um when I thinkabout my uh early parenting
(28:14):
years when my kiddos were young,you know, I've I've kind of
elementary age kiddos now, butin those early years, there was
so much of an underlyingmentality of like, I just need
you to be tougher, right?
Like I need you to get over itor to stand up for yourself or
for this to not be such a bigdeal.
And I think as I, you know, wassuch a gift to have the
(28:36):
Enneagram in those earlyparenting years, because even
though I didn't know how to fixthat quality of myself, I could
see it glaringly true.
And, you know, one of thethings that kept coming up in
conversation with my husband wasum, I feel like I just want
them to be tougher so that theycan make their way in the world
without me being there.
Um, and then realizing likethat's not the goal of
(28:57):
parenting, not just to make yourkids tougher, right?
If that's my punchline of like,and I need you to be tougher,
then I need to retrace my steps.
And that was really whatpropelled me into not just
Enneagram work, but also thework of um Dr.
Daniel Siegel, which you quotemultiple, you know, of his
parenting books and and some ofthose pieces.
Um, but really this level ofempathy that I had to build that
(29:20):
muscle because it wasn't asintuitive for me as an ate, um,
of genuine sitting with and thisnon-anxious presence to
actually understand and to buildpassion rather than me just
being the dictator that'screating commands and you have
to follow them.
Um, but for there to actuallybe character building in that.
And so that was a whole, youknow, the Enneagram was like my
(29:42):
launch pad into this whole worldof understanding.
Um, I don't know, I don't knowif it feels like an okay quat
like uh question and and requestto kind of walk through how
each of the nine types might tryto parent their kid to be their
type.
Um, you know, even in broadbrush.
Strokes.
But I'd love to kind of gothrough the nine.
Beth McCord (30:03):
Yeah.
And feel free to like chime inif you have any thoughts.
But like the type one isthey're trying to make little
principled reformers.
Like let's do things right.
Uh the type two is wanting tomake little nurturing
supporters.
Like, so let's be thoughtful ofother people's needs, their
feelings, and let's get thoseneeds met.
The type three are trying tomake little admirable achievers.
(30:26):
So let's achieve, let's excel,let's have an image that people
are going to admire.
Then we have the type four momswho are trying to make little
introspective individualistswhere they know themselves,
their authentic selves.
They're not just being likeeveryone else, that they stand
out.
The type five, they're wantingto have little um analytical
(30:47):
investigators.
So they want their kids to wantknowledge, to crave knowledge
and to sit with that knowledgeand be able to pull the
knowledge out whenever needed sothat they're ready for
whatever's gonna come their way.
Now, the type sixes, they aretrying to create little faithful
guardians, ones that aredutiful, they're responsible,
they um are also planning andpredicting what could happen and
(31:10):
make sure that bad things don'thappen.
So, like, because like kind oflike you, they're like, well,
are they gonna be able topredict things, you know, and
keep themselves safe?
So it's a lot about safety anddifferent could be relational
safety, could be physicalsafety, could be lots of
different safety.
Um, now the sevens, my dad's aseven, they're trying to create
little um enthusiasticoptimists.
(31:31):
I mean, let's keep everythinglighthearted, let's be happy,
like everything is great.
Oh, let's not deal with thosehard things.
Let's just spin it intosomething fun.
And that's what they're reallywanting with their kiddos.
Um, and like the eights,they're trying to make
passionate protectors,protectors of themselves and
protectors of others.
And so that totally makes sensewhen you were saying that is if
(31:54):
you are a passionate protectorof yourself, I feel as a mom,
I've done my job and I feel likeI can exhale and let you go
into the world.
But if you're not that way, I'mgonna be worried or I'm gonna
have to step in, I'm gonna haveto control.
And so that's what type eightsare usually doing, just as
default.
And then for me as a type nine,I'm trying to make little
(32:14):
peaceful accommodators.
Like, let's just get along,just go along with people, you
know, you know, just beflexible.
You know, your desires aren'tthe biggest thing in the world.
Like, let's just make peace andharmony wherever we go, be
empathetic, kind, and warm.
And like all of those thingsthat we that I just talked
about, there are really goodaspects to that.
(32:37):
And when we're at ourhealthiest, we are going to
impart those wonderful aspects.
The biggest thing I wantparents to recognize is that you
don't try to create manyversions of yourself.
So there's a difference inimparting good things to them
and allowing them to be them andincorporating your gifts into
their personality versus tryingto create little versions.
(33:01):
And I, we all do it because wesee the world through our own
lens, you know, our own glasses,you know.
So I see the world as a typenine.
Like, why wouldn't I want tohave little peaceful
accommodators?
Isn't that the way the world'ssupposed to be that we're all
getting along?
Well, yes, there's a reallywonderful aspect about peace and
harmony, but that's not thewhole spectrum.
(33:22):
And that's not the whole partof life.
And so I want to be curious asto who my kids were created to
be.
Now, you know, I know parents,like you said earlier, that we
just want to know their type andwe just want to parent their
type.
We want to either fix them orhelp them to be their best type.
And you just can't for a while.
So a lot of it comes aroundcuriosity, being curious about
(33:44):
them, being non-anxious andpresent, being uh aware and
attuned to who they are.
But so, like if I had, and thisis so important because if I
had a type eight child who wasprotecting themselves and
standing up, you know, to theinjustice of let's say their
sibling, you know, teasing andbullying them, you know, part of
(34:05):
me would be proud of that.
But then I a lot large part ofme would be wanting to tamp it
down, like, well, let's just getalong.
And so that can come acrosslike I'm not listening well.
Now, do I want them to getalong?
Yes.
Are there good aspects that Ican impart?
Yes.
But am I helping my type eightchild to grow up to see their
(34:27):
personality as a blessing?
Now, if I don't know their typeas that, I can still be
curious, like, okay, they'revery different than me.
They're strong, they'reassertive, they're gonna say
what they need to say.
So they're probably, you know,in some sort of aggressive
stance, or, you know, maybe,maybe not, but we're probably
different.
And so, how can I nurture that?
How can I steer that qualityinto the best place for them
(34:52):
while also imparting myself?
So, and it's so hard because wedo it with everyone, whether
it's our kids, our spouse, ourco-workers, our bosses, we want
them to be us or at least seethe world the way we do and do
it the way we do it.
And that is kind of the mysteryand the beauty of life is that
it's never that way.
And how are we gonnaparticipate in those
relationships is the key.
Abbi Rodriguez (35:12):
Yeah, definitely.
And and I love that invitationto curiosity.
You know, I think sometimes umit, you know, when people ask of
like, well, how do I figure itout?
Or what do you think they are?
And and that sense of like,just tell me the answer.
Um, but the answer really iscuriosity, especially until they
get into some of those lateryears.
Um, but I think too, like thereit is, there is really a
(35:34):
genuine invitation with thatcuriosity to even in your mind
ask some of those thosequestions of like, I wonder if
this is why they did that,right?
Rather than just, you know, whyare they having this quote
unquote bad behavior?
But instead of like, I wonderif that was like really
anxiety-producing for them, or Iwonder why they got so angry so
quickly, or I wonder why thatwas embarrassing for them.
(35:56):
I wouldn't have beenembarrassed, but I wonder why it
was for them.
Um, you know, some of thosequalities that I think uh if we
can really take on the lens ofasking that question of, you
know, that peculiarity ratherthan assuming it would be the
way that it was for us, um, oflike, why?
Why did that bother them somuch?
Or why did we have such a bigreaction to that?
(36:18):
Um, and as they get older, youknow, you can start to ask some
of those questions, even insimple ways.
Um, you know, one of the giftsthat I feel like um that I was
offered along the way of justmirroring back that emotion by
asking the question of, you seemreally angry, what's going on,
buddy?
You know, or you seem reallyembarrassed.
I, you know, and then they cancorrect you like, no, I wasn't
(36:40):
embarrassed, I was afraid,right?
And they can correct whatemotion that they're
experiencing, but starting inthat conversation and getting
some language around what'sgoing on in their interior
world.
Um, and I think the other partof that, too, that I find myself
having to remind myself of justbecause it's, you know,
oftentimes when we're parenting,we kind of react to our
(37:01):
parenting experience, right?
We try to give them the thingsthat we wish that they would
have had.
And there's great versions ofthat.
But then also realizing um whatis valuable to us, it may not
really rank very valuable tothem.
And so, although this feels someaningful to be so intentional
and so authentic, or to givethem so many opportunities to
(37:21):
shine, or to create so muchspace for them to connect with
others, right?
It may not rank very valuableto them.
And we might be going, youknow, extending all this energy
to create this experience thatthey they actually could have,
you know, take it or leave it.
unknown (37:36):
Yeah.
Beth McCord (37:36):
I mean, like I'll just use me as an example.
I had great parents.
Um, my mom was a six, veryphobic six, and my dad was a
very fun seven.
Um, and so my mom and dad, theyboth love to be busy.
Well, my mom liked to be busywith responsibilities, and my
dad loved to be busy with hiswork.
He was an allergist and he waspassionate about it.
And then he had lots of otherlike things that he was busy
(37:59):
with.
And so they love talking aboutbeing busy, busy, busy.
We're so busy, you know.
And it was like this like uhbadge of honor.
Well, I'm a type nine.
Like I'm like, I don't carethat you're busy.
In fact, I would like for younot to be busy.
I just want you to be with me,to be present with me.
And so, you know, as a littlekid, I kind of just felt at
(38:22):
times like, well, why are you sobusy?
And why do you think that's soimportant?
Like, why can't you just and soit felt like this real big
disconnect, but they probablythought they were imparting
like, we're, you know, we'reworking hard and we're, you
know, we're providing for thefamily and all those things.
And though those are great, butlike you were saying, they
think they're impartingsomething that I would
(38:44):
appreciate.
And I didn't now, maybe anothertype of kid would.
Um, I mean, I know all kidsreally want that attunement and
stuff, but I just really wantedto chill on the couch and maybe
watch TV or have a fire or, youknow, just be with them and not
always go, go, go.
But there's a lot of thepersonalities that do love to
(39:06):
go, go, go, you know, and theywould not understand that world
of the nine or know what to dowith that world.
And so I think that's reallylike what you're saying is so
important is to have thatcuriosity and try different
things because I mean, youyou're not gonna know the kids'
type until they name their type,until they know, and it's not
until they're, you know, like alittle bit older, like teenage
(39:27):
years, if you're lucky, ifthey're kind of an old soul or
later.
And so the curiosity comes inand then you just try some
different things.
Um, you know, let me see ifthis lands on them well.
Does this feel, you know?
And I think for me as a kid, ifmy parents were just going to
be curious and ask goodquestions, or why, why are you
(39:49):
frustrated that we're so busy onthe weekend?
Well, because I just want to bewith you.
And to hear the heart behindit, I think that's what's so
important.
Not to hear the heart in thesense that I'm accusatory of the
parent, like they're alwaysdoing something wrong.
But the parent, that's wherethe self-regulation comes in and
being a non-anxious presence,like, okay, I need to set aside
what might activate me and Ineed to listen to my kid.
(40:11):
So if you know what activatesyou, then you can listen a
little bit further with yourchild when you're being curious.
And instead of it being anaccusation, it's an invitation.
Abbi Rodriguez (40:22):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think too, you know,there are some broad
brushstrokes that you can pickup on with your kids.
Like even you said, you know,maybe they're in a certificance,
right?
And I think subtypes feelreally obvious to me with kids,
right?
Because, and a lot of timesbecause they're nurtured.
So then sometimes it's just acombination of you and your
partner.
Um, but I think some of thosethings too, you know, even for
(40:45):
my husband and I, so my husbandleaves with type seven.
And one of the things werealized very quickly before our
kids could even really talk wasthat we were gonna have to be
really mindful about our speed.
Otherwise, our kids' childhoodis gonna feel like whiplash
because we can have a thoughtand go do it or go do something
and then think about it later.
And there's just a lot of speedand being up for it.
(41:07):
And so, you know, even now asour kids have gotten older, one
of our kids is very much up forit.
And then the other one has apretty strong inner world and is
more of a homebody.
And so being mindful of whatthat experience is like for him,
um, because that, you know,having two parents that are
very, very leaning in thatassertive stance, um, that can
(41:28):
feel like a lot of energy and alot of four momentum that we
don't want him to feel like he'salways getting hold along or
he's trying to catch up.
Beth McCord (41:35):
Yeah.
And I love that because I had aum a coaching client that was a
type eight and her husband wasa three.
So very similar.
Like, go, go, go.
Um, and then we're gonna go toEurope.
And they had just discoveredthat their uh teenage son was a
five, and everything started tomake sense.
And so she was like, Beth, youknow, I have everything planned
out.
Like, you know, me and myhusband as a three and an eight,
(41:56):
like we've got the days plannedout and we're gonna like get it
so much done.
And she was like, Oh, wait,what about him?
And I said, Okay, here, let'stalk it through.
And so we talked it through.
And I said, This is what he'sgonna need.
You're gonna need to check inwith him.
Where is his interactivebattery life?
Is he feeling like he's at fivepercent and you're about ready
(42:17):
to go off and do the next thing?
It's gonna be good to check inwith his battery life to see
when does he need to rechargeand how would he like to
recharge and not to take it as apersonal thing that he doesn't
want to be with the family or dothe fun things, but he has his
own sets of needs anyway.
So, of course, we workedthrough all that and talked
through it.
And then I went to Europe and Iran into them uh one day.
(42:37):
And she was like, It was thebest vacation we have ever been
on.
And I was just like, Yay! Youknow, so they all got to enjoy
it because they were all able tosee themselves really for who
they are and to celebrate oneanother.
And that's that's why theInnergram is so powerful.
And if we use it correctly, wedon't use it as a sword or as a
shield, we want to use itcorrectly.
(43:00):
And when we do, we enjoyourselves and who we are, but we
also get to enjoy those aroundus.
Abbi Rodriguez (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Um, I know that we could talkforever and ever.
Um, but as we kind of wrap upour time together, um, would you
share with listeners about howthey can be engaged in your work
and how you know they can findyour book and kind of what
you're up to these days, too?
Beth McCord (43:21):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So everything is at yourIntegramCoach.com.
So that's my handle onInstagram and Facebook as well.
We have a podcast, YourIntegram Coach, the podcast.
Um, the book, Anygram for Moms,is coming out July 9th.
And you can also go to anygramfor moms.com.
And we've got pre-order bonusesthere.
You've got lots of otherfreebies that you can kind of
(43:43):
grab and utilize as a parent.
And so we just really want, wewant families to thrive.
And I believe part of that isknowing ourselves well enough so
that we can really be there forour kids and that non-anxious
connected presence.
So that's where they can findme.
Abbi Rodriguez (43:58):
Okay, I love that.
And I will link all thosepieces in the show notes too, so
that it's easy to find you.
Um, thank you so much for beingon the podcast.
It's it's always such a gift toget to connect with other
Enneagram practitioners and kindof their slice of the Enneagram
and their world that they'reoccupying.
Um, but I'm I'm so excited tobe able to offer, you know, this
resource to to parents.
(44:19):
And again, you know, everyfacet of the Enneagram is
helpful with every facet ofrelationship, relationship to
self and relationship to others.
Um, and so I know that thiswill really be a resource for
them.
So thanks for being on theshow.
Thanks, Sampy.
Beth McCord (44:30):
I love being here.
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