Self-Improvement and that Pesky Inner Critic as an Enneagram 1 with Colton Simmons

In this episode of Enneagram in Real Life, Stephanie Barron Hall interviews Colton Simmons. 

Colton Simmons is the creator and host of You've Got a Type, a podcast dedicated to self-awareness, personal growth, and all things enneagram. Colton has a B.A. & M.A. in Theology, and it was during his time in seminary when he first learned of the enneagram as a tool for spiritual discernment. Since then, Colton has had a long and winding road through many different career paths, but has always reserved time in his life to create meaningful content that improves the lives of others. ​After launching You've Got a Type just over four years ago, Colton has been wonderfully surprised to see his burgeoning channel receive more than 2.2M views, hundreds of thousands of hours of watch time, and over 37k subscribers as of April 2025.

Find the full show notes here: https://www.ninetypes.co/blog/self-improvement-and-that-pesky-inner-critic-as-an-enneagram-1-with-colton-simmons

🔗 Connect with Colton Simmons!

📷Colton’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/youvegotatype/

💻Colton’s Website: https://www.youtube.com/youvegotatype

🎥Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/youvegotatype

🔗 Connect with Steph!

💻 Stephanie’s Website: https://ninetypes.co/

📷 Stephanie’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ninetypesco

🎥 Stephanie’s Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@stephbarronhall

Want to keep learning about the Enneagram? Grab Steph’s new book, Enneagram in Real Life! Find the book, ebook, or audiobook wherever books are sold.

Episode Transcript

Colton (00:00):
a lot of it just goes down to like the ego

(00:01):
deconstruction I'm trying to doevery day, which is why I love
the Enneagram.
Like the whole thing to me,isn't like identifying your
type.
It's picking away your ego.
It doesn't really matter ifyou're to me, if you're a one or
one through nine.
It matters.
You can have all, all of this isexisting in you at some point.
So maybe at some point you needto deconstruct some of these
seven traits in you, even thoughyou're not a seven, you know,
the point of a seven is just tohighlight some of these

(00:24):
personality traits and egofixations.
So whenever I'm stung fromsomeone who's anonymous online,
who I don't know, I'm like, whatis it about me?
That's like letting this, youknow,
Hello and welcome to Enneagramin Real Life, the podcast where

(00:47):
we explore how to apply ourEnneagram knowledge in our daily
lives.
I'm your host, Stephanie BarronHall, and on today's episode I
am talking with YouTuber ColtonSimmons.
Now this episode and many of theupcoming episodes were actually
recorded quite a while ago.
because I banked a lot ofepisodes knowing that I am going

(01:08):
to be going on maternity leavecoming up here pretty soon.
But I still really enjoy theseepisodes because they're just as
relevant.
You might notice that I have hada few ones on the podcast
recently and I have a few morecoming up, and that's because I
noticed after a while of doingthe, this podcast that I hadn't
interviewed very many ones.

(01:28):
So I really went out andintentionally found a lot of
ones who wanted to beinterviewed, which is awesome.
So today Colton is gonna sharehis story as an Enneagram one.
Um, but now I need.
Always more fives and sixes.
So if you're a five or a six andyou wanna be interviewed, you
can reach out via the contactpage on my website, which is
nine types.co.

(01:49):
But um.
We always need fives and sixes,and we also need a lot more
twos.
I've noticed that I haven'tinterviewed as many twos, so if
you're a two and you wanna beinterviewed, reach out.
We'd love to chat with you.
But today, um, like I mentioned,we are talking to type one,
Colton Simmons.
Colton is the creator and hostof, you've got a Type A podcast

(02:12):
dedicated to self-awareness,personal growth, and all things
Enneagram.
He has a Bachelor of Arts and amaster of arts in Theology, and
it was during his time inseminary when he first learned
of the Enneagram as a tool forspiritual discernment.
Since then, Colton has had along and winding road through
many different career paths, buthas always reserved time in his
life to create meaningfulcontent that hopefully improves

(02:34):
the lives of others.
After launching, you've got atype.
Just over four years ago, Coltonhas been wonderfully surprised
to see his burgeoning channelreceive more than 2.2 million
views, hundreds of thousands ofhours of watch time, and over
37,000 subscribers as of April,2025.
And that's just from the typefives.

(02:55):
Just kidding.
That's actually in his bio.
By the way, um, but in thisepisode we're gonna be talking
about what it's like to be aYouTuber, talking about the
Enneagram, how Colton went fromhis upbringing as a strict
evangelical and militaryscholarship to exploring
theology acting, and eventuallythe Enneagram.

(03:17):
And he's a type one with theself press dominant.
So he naturally gravitatestoward these tools that are for
self-awareness, and improvementand things like that.
So we talked a lot about that.
We talked about what it's liketo be married to a three.
Um, I offered my condolences,just kidding.
Threes.
And.
We also just talked about innercritic and all that sort of
stuff, I really enjoyed thisconversation with Colton, and I

(03:40):
hope that you will too, And Ihope you'll check out his
YouTube channel, which again iscalled You've Got a Type.
So without further ado, here'smy conversation with Colton
Simmons.

Steph Barron Hall (03:50):
Well, Colton, welcome to the podcast.

Colton (03:52):
Thanks, good to be here.

Steph Barron Hall (03:54):
Yeah.
I'm glad we're able to connect alittle bit already.
I already found some kind ofparallels.
And I'm so curious to hear moreabout you and your backstory.
Tell me about how you got here.
Who are you?

Colton (04:06):
Oh man, this is

Steph Barron Hall (04:07):
Biggest questions.

Colton (04:09):
big existential question.
Yeah, how I got here.
It's been a long and windingjourney.
I have always been curious aboutspiritual things.
I went, I got my bachelor'sdegree in theology from a small
private school called AzusaPacific we were just talking
about.
And then I went and got mymaster's in theology at Fuller
Theological Seminary inPasadena.
Always.

(04:29):
Very interested in, you know,what else there is to life,
having a sense of purpose.
Yeah, just kind of picking awayat like what else is out there
was always at the top of mindfor me, mixed with just, you
know, a strict sense of moralimprovement as well.
Type one, there's yourforeshadow.
So yeah, I mean, how I got here,I don't even know where to begin
with that question because I'vedone, especially in my early

(04:54):
years, I was, I feel like I waschanging course, like every two
years, like I have a very weirdand winding story that I can
kind of like breeze over realquick and give you like the, the
general beats.
I was, And a full ride militaryscholarship when I started
college, cause I had no way topay for school.
So I basically sold my soul.
It was like, Hey, I'll do thisROTC scholarship there.

(05:16):
It's a full ride.
Did that for two years and I wasan applied exercise science
major.
I hated everything about my lifein college.
I was like, nothing I'm doing isimportant or like relevant to
what I care about.
I'm good at it, but I don't careabout any of this stuff.
I was also playing tennis.
I'd like walked onto the tennisteam, just something I'd done my
whole life, but was kind of likephasing out of like burned out

(05:36):
athlete.
So I had like, just a, I don'tknow, quarter life crisis at
about 20.
And I also found out that I hadscoliosis from doing ruck
marches all day for like 12miles and 50 pounds on your
back.
And I was like, I feel like I'mtoo young to have weird back
pains like this.
And so I found out I hadscoliosis, got medically
discharged.
And then going into my junioryear, I just was like, overhaul

(06:00):
everything.
I was like, screw this.
You know what?
If you're not going to have anymoney, you might as well do what
you love here for as long as youcan stay at school.
So I started to get my degree intheology, quit tennis team and
started kind of going down amore, I don't know, spiritual
path, I guess.
So yeah.
And then after that went to toHollywood.
I did not like my, I lovedstudying theology.

(06:21):
But I did not like the cultureof Christianity at the time that
I was navigating.
I was like, I would love thisstuff.
And I do have these beliefs, butI don't know where I fit in this
weird culture.
So then I was like, well, whatelse are you passionate about?
I was like the arts and I was inLA.
So I went to Hollywood and Istarted just trying to act for a
little bit, got into the ScreenActors Guild, did that for two

(06:42):
years to pay the bills.
And then all I would do is endup having spiritual
conversations on set about likefaith and God and religion with
all these tons of likebeautiful, diverse people.
I went to a pretty homogenouscollege.
So it was like reallyrefreshing.
I loved it.
And I was like, man, how do I dothis for a living?
Started a podcast called theback pew with a great friend of

(07:03):
mine.
So my best friend who was astandup comedian, and he'd also
grown up as a missionary's kidin Romania, but he's a six foot
eight white guy.
So he was a fish out of waterhis whole life.
I felt similar, but in a verydifferent way.
And so we started doing kind ofa podcast about different
people's spiritual beliefs.
And I was, then I went toseminary, which I started
informing that whole podcastjourney where I was kind of like

(07:25):
the theological perspective.
He was humorous, but also liketons of life experience kind of
feeding his narratives.
And then after that, I startedto work in nonprofit and
marketing and always kind ofkept a sliver of my life, like
saved for doing what I waspassionate about.
And so, which is where I starteddoing the Enneagram podcast,
especially once I, I moved fromLA, so I couldn't do the podcast
with my buddy anymore.

(07:46):
Also COVID kind of blew that up.
Having strangers on the podcastwas a kind of a no no for a
while there.
So yeah, finally took my passionfor the Enneagram and was like,
you know what?
I think I don't love what I'mseeing online.
As far as how people areteaching this, like, I think
there's a space for, like,humor, of course, like, my, my

(08:08):
master's thesis was on comedyand religion, so I did a whole
thing about the intersection ofit and why it's important, but
when it came to the Enneagram,all I was seeing was, like,
stupid sketches and, like,here's what, like, a seven does
at a wedding, or a four ordersat Starbucks, and I was, like,
I,

Steph Barron Hall (08:23):
That's so annoying.

Colton (08:24):
I was like, I love this system.
I use this for like deep selfcritical analysis.
Me and my wife use it throughoutour dating relationships.
I've used it with friends whohave been in low places and just
looking for a tool to kind oflike help, you know, guide some
practical steps rather than justlike navel gazing and being
like, isn't it great?
I'm an INFJ and I'm a, like a Don the disc.

(08:45):
And it's like, dude, how manylabels do you need?
Like, can we do something aboutall this?
Like self awareness.
So.
That's why I love the Enneagram.
And I was like, all right,typical type one behavior.
I had to get frustrated aboutsomething before I like did
anything about it.
And I was like, so frustratedabout with what I, like what I
saw online.
I was like, all right, I've donepodcasting.
I've done marketing.
I gotta like, I gotta figure outhow to do videos now.

(09:08):
Cause like, I gotta, I gotta geton this YouTube platform and put
out some counter content tolike, for somebody who's like
hungry to learn this thing.
And doesn't want it to be like,so silly and cliche all the
time.
So yeah, that's, that is the, Iskipped over so many things, but
that's generally how I got towhere I am now.

Steph Barron Hall (09:29):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that's reallyhelpful too, because that's
something I've noticed about theEnneagram as well.
And even, or Enneagram content,you know, even for a long time
when I was posting on Instagram,I would try to do something like
really light, or I would getlike, requests for like
sponsored content.

Colton (09:46):
Mm hmm.

Steph Barron Hall (09:47):
And they're like tote bag for each Enneagram
type.
And I'm like, well, actually,and I was like, I can't do that.
I cannot, you know,

Colton (09:55):
Yeah, I know.
I, now that the, my podcast hasgrown, I've started to get some
of those and I'm just like, Idon't know how to answer this,
like, I'll write you a couple ofsentences if you want this, but
like, I'm not going to put it onmy YouTube channel.
I'm not going to put it on myInstagram.
I barely even try Instagram atthis point.
Cause it's so cluttered.
And like people like you thathave huge platforms are doing
it.
I'm like, God bless.

(10:15):
I'll my, my Instagram is like,here's the video I made.
That's it.
Like, if you want to watch it,you can go watch it on YouTube.
I'm just living on YouTube.
Cause Instagram, like,especially to write like
poignant stuff is like good luckHey, you need like to be a
professional graphic designer atthis point to post anything
about the Enneagram.
And then B it's like, most ofit's just like the highest level

(10:38):
commentary.
And I'm just like, all right, gofor it.
So

Steph Barron Hall (10:43):
Long form video makes it so much easier to
go in depth

Colton (10:46):
yeah, I, I, that's, I always felt like I need more
time to explain this.
Like, I feel like I, so that'swhy, and I just like the
YouTube, like feels like thisfeels like you're having a
conversation with somebody, youcan see them, you can hear them,
like I'm a huge consumer ofpodcasts and even things like
masterclass, I love to learn.
And I love that whole, like.

(11:07):
Let's sit down and let's takethis chunk by chunk and really
internalize it, you know, whichI was like, there's not going to
be a huge market for this andit's taken a while for people to
find it, but

Steph Barron Hall (11:19):
But

Colton (11:19):
nice to see.
Oh, no, I was just going to say,it's nice to see that it has
grown little by little.

Steph Barron Hall (11:25):
yeah.
And I think especially if you'retalking about things like
relationships, everyone hasthese problems with their
relationships.
Like I work a lot withcommunication and like, it's
like everything iscommunication, you know?
So I think that that's reallyuniversally applicable for
people.

Colton (11:42):
Yeah.
I remember doing my first lunchand learn though, at a company
that was like a small marketingagency.
And even, it was just, it's justawkward because you're like
picking apart someone's managerand that they don't like, and
you're kind of giving them like,you're putting like bullets in
the chamber a little bit.
And I'm like, boy, even this isreally tricky.
Like, I don't know how to dothis to really authentically

(12:03):
deliver you the Enneagram that Iam.
And walking with, which is alittle bit more like spiritual
and existential.
It's not as like solelycommunication, best practices.
You can make it that 100%.
But I just, with my, myeducation and my background, I'm
always steering it towards likea more non workplace friendly, I

(12:24):
guess, conversation where I'mlike, I don't know, Stephanie
might have a big issues with hermom.
Like, you know, we just mightend there.
I don't know.
Sorry.
Like, you know,

Steph Barron Hall (12:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, it definitely takes somepractice to figure out like how
far to take things in thatscenario.
But I'm curious for you, at whatpoint did you learn about the
Enneagram and how did you figureout your type?

Colton (12:46):
Well, it took about three seconds to figure out my
type.
I think like the first page, ifyou have the Rizzo and Hudson's
wisdom of the Enneagram, likethat first page of the type one,
I have like completelyunderlined almost all of it with
like little references to how itapplies to my life.
And so I found out about it fromsomeone that had grown up.
Actually gone to school to anall girls Catholic school where

(13:07):
they, it was required readingfor them, you know, thank the
Franciscans for that.
Actually up here in NorthernCalifornia.
So they, I'm like, man, this isreally deep stuff to be going
through in high school.
But she gave it to me and she'slike, I think for sure you
should check this out and Ithink you might be a one.
And I, like the first page I waslike, well, yep, bingo.
This is awesome.
And so I just kept it to myself.

(13:28):
I just, I would use that in likequiet times and journaling.
And was just like, wow, this,especially cause I had like a
very tenuous relationship withmy father at the time.
And so much of it is about that.
Like they just dive into thatchildhood pattern about, you
know, authority and how you'vecome up just putting these like
crazy standards on yourself.
And how you have friction withauthority and all that stuff.

(13:48):
So to me, it was just like, itwas kind of like a soothing
thing to read and be like, okay,this makes sense.
Like this must be a common thingfor a big chunk of the
population to go through andhave these mindsets about, you
know, perfection and beingparticular and how your anger
comes out.
And even how other people aregoing to see you based on their
type.
One of my best friends was afour.

(14:09):
So I was like, man, we like, wejive in so many ways, but then
we're also like, Having a lot offriction as, as buddies, you
know?
So it was just, it was awesome.
And nobody was really talkingabout it when I was, you know,
23, I'm 34 now.
So it was like 11 years ago.
So it was, it caught me totallyoff guard when it was like
popular.

(14:30):
I was like, Whoa, this is, itwent from like zero to 60 and
like the cultural, you know,milieu of just.
Everybody knows about this now.
This is crazy.
So I also was a huge lover ofRichard Rohr at the time.
Cause I was in seminary.
Which was tough because, I mean,Richard Rohr basically
dismantled a lot of my spirituallife at the time.

(14:51):
But his Enneagram was like,another way to like, bolster it
back up in a way.
But I love him and when I sawthat he had written a book on
the Enneagram, I was like, Man,this is really into like you can
really layer in your spiritualbeliefs with this quote unquote
personality assessment, and thatwas something I hadn't found
with Myers Briggs or DISC orStrengthsFinder, like all the
stuff that I had gone through incollege.

(15:11):
I was like, this is reallyadding like a practical
spiritual, you know, Layer tothis whole, you know,
personality conversation, whichI loved.

Steph Barron Hall (15:21):
Yeah.
And I wonder if readingsomething by somebody who's your
same type makes it landdifferently.

Colton (15:27):
Yeah.
I'm just like, how is this guyone?
He's so calm.
I'm like, you're such a matureversion of, of oneness.
But then you listen to like hisolder stuff from the seventies
and eighties.
And you're like, all right,there's a fire.
There's a little bit of like,you know, there's that

Steph Barron Hall (15:40):
Yeah.
He's found the serenity

Colton (15:42):
Yes.
I was like, you're nine wingalso must be hardcore.

Steph Barron Hall (15:46):
Yeah.
I'm curious.
I think I saw that you resonatewith this self preservation
subtype.

Colton (15:51):
Mm hmm.

Steph Barron Hall (15:53):
I'm curious how you see that play out.

Colton (15:55):
Predominantly through like anxiety is a huge one for
that.
I also, I grew up with analcoholic father, so like
everything was always very outof control and unpredictable.
Like you just like, so I learnedto live in my room a lot of
ways.
Like I I either got sent therecause I was punished, or it was
just the place that I had liketotal control and safety.
And as long as I kept my bedmade and my everything put away,

(16:17):
like I was pretty much leftbehind.
You couldn't really get punishedif you were just in there.
So my home and my dwellingplace, wherever I've been, has
always been a very particular,very clean, very minimalistic
space where I felt like this iswhere I can kind of come and
like, be safe and I can be good.
And this is, no, one's going tocome in here and like cause
chaos in here.

(16:37):
So yeah, it's played out a lot.
And then just as I've workedthrough.
Anxiety about, again, it getsvery existential fears about
what happens when you die, youknow, all these conversations
about you know, life after deathand heaven and hell and God, all
that stuff, especially likearound the first time I lost
like a family member, I waslike, man, all, all of these

(17:01):
beliefs are now colliding to theforefront of my brain.
And I really got to figure outlike what I do now, how that
affects me later on.
So, Yeah, that's that's a bit ofit.

Steph Barron Hall (17:11):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
And I, it sounds like a lot ofpressure especially thinking
about you, you and your younger,like always wanting to have
these existential conversationsor these spiritual conversations
and having these big questions.

Colton (17:24):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (17:26):
a lot there.
Oh my

Colton (17:27):
Yeah well in the heart the hard part that triggered a
lot of the anxiety was feelinglike I had it all figured out
when I was younger because like,you know for me it was being a
part of like the EvangelicalChristian Church which has like
all these rules around sexualityor Drinking or swearing or what
you watch or how you act and allthis stuff.
And I was like, Oh, I'm doingall of this.
So I'm good.
Like I'm set.

(17:49):
And then as that started tolike, you know, get picked away,
like they jokingly call seminarycemetery, cause it's where you
go to like, to lose your faith.
Cause you just, you startlearning all the things you
didn't know about scripture orthe historical concept.
And it can be a beautiful placetoo, where you're really like,
you finally inform all of these,you know, Maybe like inherited
beliefs of your parents.

(18:09):
So it's, I don't want to knockit.
It was great for a lot ofthings.
But you start to kind of pickaway some of even your like
interpretations of how thingswere translated and all that
stuff.
So then you go, wow, I might belike not good and I might even
be verging on bad based on howI've lived my life.
And that was rough.
And I was like, and it might'vebeen all for not, you might've
been super rigid and strict onyourself and maybe there's no

(18:29):
heaven, like, and then that wasjust like, Oh my gosh.
Then what was the point ofeverything?
Like I missed out on so manygreat experiences for nothing.
And the times that I was moral,it wasn't even really from a
good place.
It was from like a veryjudgmental condescending, like
it wasn't like, Oh, I'm servingthe poor.
Cause I'm like, I'm justconcerned that they're not doing

(18:49):
well.
And I feel like I have enough toshare with them.
It was like, no, I should dothis.
Cause then it's like, that'swhat good people do.
You know, good people go on amission trip on spring break.
They don't go to Cancun.
So it's like, yeah, but I kindof want to go to Cancun.
Or, you know what I mean?
Like, I kind of want to do thefun thing on spring break.
And it's like, no, just whiteknuckle this.
Push it down and do the reallystrict virtuous thing.
So you start looking back on,you know, 15, 20 years of that

(19:13):
decision making.
And it was just like, dude, Idon't know what to do.
Like, how do I, how do I, how doI do this going forward now?
You know?
So,

Steph Barron Hall (19:23):
I mean, yeah.

Colton (19:26):
it's a lot.

Steph Barron Hall (19:27):
It's a mindfuck.
I, I think that's like that.
That's what you call that.

Colton (19:30):
Yeah, exactly.

Steph Barron Hall (19:32):
I'm curious and we can cut this if you don't
want to discuss this, but I'mjust curious, like how you've
made peace with that now andlike knowing, okay, I'm a one
and I have these concepts.
Like, how do you have this, youknow, obviously in some way you
must have rebuilt some sort oflike moral and ethical fiber.

Colton (19:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think a lot, like, I thank
Richard Rohr a lot for this,because he was the only, like,
he was the only person that was,like, teaching mysticism a lot
when I was kind of going throughall this.
And Mysticism is like for thoseof that, that of you that don't
know what that is, it's just,it's basing your Christian faith
or whatever your faith is on atrue experience, a firsthand

(20:12):
experience with a divine, it'sbelieving that it's not all
theory and verse memorization,but there is like a
transformative experience at theheart of your faith.
It's very mystical.
It's a mystery.
It's, you cannot explain it.
It's also like, as opposed tojust feeling like you can find
all the answers.
Mystery is like endlesslyknowable.
You can never figure it all out.
So there's always moreinformation.

(20:33):
And that whole philosophy iswhat helped me make peace with
where I'm at today.
You know, with, which is just, Idon't want to say that it's like
a feeling of lostness becausethere's like a peace in it, you
know, it's it's weird.
It's the, it's all paradoxicalthinking, you know, it's like,
this doesn't matter.
But it also, it matters a lot,and holding both of those

(20:53):
thoughts at the same time hasbeen, I don't know, pretty much
the journey of my last, like,five or six years.
And, and it's just, it's a lotof contemplative meditation.
It's a lot of trying to findintentional community to like
share the journey with it's.
It's learning to recognize theego at work and being like, how,
where did that thought comefrom?

(21:14):
And why do I feel that in mybody and connecting those two
things and then trying to findthe peace in that going like,
wow, I actually, I'm holdingthis tension in my chest and
like, maybe I didn't feelstress, but my body's reacting
so it's, it's such a holistic.
I don't feel like I'm givinglike a clear answer here, but
it's like understanding all ofthe components of how you're
going through life and thenmaking peace with that, like

(21:35):
from your mental, youremotional, your physical,
somehow finding purpose amidstall the mystery.
You know, within all that.

Steph Barron Hall (21:45):
Well, I mean, the truth is there's no simple
answer, of course, but it soundslike you're just finding this
tension and rejecting the blackand white thinking that not only
your evangelical upbringing, itsounds like, but also, you know,
this specific typology,

Colton (21:59):
Mm hmm.

Steph Barron Hall (22:00):
kind of has inherent in it.

Colton (22:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's still always reallyhard to explain and there's
stuff from Roar is always like,as soon as you start trying to
put words to this stuff, itpretty much loses meaning
because now you're trying tomake something be concrete, like
that is not concrete, it's, it'svapor, you know what I mean?
And you're trying to like throwa blanket over it and be like,

(22:22):
look, this is what it is.
And you're like, kind of, it'slike any magical experience you
have.
As soon as you start trying toexplain it.
It doesn't sound as cool orwhatever, you know, like you
could have this perfect momentwith your spouse or you see your
child born and you startdescribing it.
And you're like, ah, it doesn't,this doesn't sound like how it
feels, you know?
So I think those are the, I'vehad a thousand of those little

(22:43):
moments amidst like, you know,the peace of contemplation and
just sitting in stillness andand just, Some crazy, I don't
know what to call them, like,fortuitous coincidences, you
know?
I'm a spiritual guy, so Ibelieve that some things are
like a little bit of a God wink,you know?
So, yeah, I've had enough ofthose little moments where it
feels like the divine, like,just kind of, like, gives you a

(23:05):
nugget and you're like, alright,keep going.
I'll keep going with this.
So,

Steph Barron Hall (23:12):
Yeah.
It's a mystery for sure.
I'm curious because on yourchannel, like we mentioned, you
talk about the Enneagram andrelationships.
And I'm curious if you've seenthat play out in your own life
and what has that looked like?

Colton (23:26):
yeah, it's huge for me and my wife.
She's a three and I'm a one verylike highly competent couple,
but still very whimsical andplayful.
And I remember reading our,like, you know, the, the first
few descriptions about how wefunction and things.
And just being like, wow, thisis exactly, this is exactly
where we're like connecting onsuch a deep and natural level.

(23:47):
It just feels effortless.
And this is also where we'realways just going to have, you
know, A little bit of adifference of opinions, if not
some friction for like, when wefirst started dating, it was
really weird.
Cause I was more introverted andI have a very small circle of
friends and she is like, Mrs,you know, popular new, everybody
performer, like just everybodyseemed, just seemed to love her.

(24:09):
And so her friend group wasmassive, you know, and I was
like, yo, not all these peopleare your friends.
I'm gonna let you know, you gota lot of takers in your circle
that aren't really giving asmuch back.
And, and there were alsobeautiful people that I had
completely disregarded.
Cause we were in the samecommunity for years.
We'd gone to the same church andthere were people that I was
like, I don't know about thatperson.

(24:29):
And then lo and behold, they'relike great friends now, you
know?
So it was this nice mixture oflike, the longer we've been
together, the more her group gotsmaller and the more mine got
bigger and we've kind of met inthe middle.
And it's created like abeautiful understanding of what
community is for us.
And it's just like, we just talkabout every little detail.

(24:50):
I think we've like weird outsome of our couples where
they're like, are you told himthat?
I was like, yeah, I told him.
I was like, there's notsomething that happens to either
of us.
We have like a high ethicalstandard of, if this happens,
I'm going to tell you, you know,we share everything.
Like our finances are oneaccount.
Like, you know, so it's, it'sgreat as much as it causes
friction where I'm like, I'mlike, I have to do this the
right way.

(25:10):
And she's like, Oh, we can do itthis way.
Who cares?
Let's just go with it.
You know?
We almost always still meet backon the, like, all right, this
feels like the smart, maturething to do.
Let's go with that.

Steph Barron Hall (25:21):
Yeah.
I can appreciate that level oftransparency and also that you
shared she's a three because Ithink sometimes people have an
assumption that threes aren'tthat way.

Colton (25:31):
Yeah.
I think people have a lot ofassumptions about every
Enneagram type and what they canand cannot be.
But yeah, threes, threes are aninteresting one.
Cause I also feel like theyconsume the least amount of
Enneagram content, juststatistically from my stuff from
the last couple of years, I'mlike, wow.
Every time, every, everythingwith threes.
Get some of the lowest viewsbecause it is like it's self
critical and don't want to diveinto that stuff.

(25:52):
Let's talk about my strengthsand things I'm doing well.
And like, keep it up, keep it,you know, positive and flashy
and nice.
And I think that is a true partof the stereotype maybe.
But she's also got a four wingand she's just very mature.
So like her emotionalintrospection is really deep
and.
She used to do performancepoetry, which was like really

(26:15):
vulnerable.
I mean, she's self aware, selfaware enough to know that like,
Oh, I turned even my darknessinto like a way to get applause,
you know, so she knows, she knewwhat she was doing and it was
very successful for her, butit's still like, as a one, I
feel like I connect verynaturally with a lot of fours.
And for me, it was a nice way tomeet her and kind of have that
inroad in.

(26:35):
And I think, you know, hersister is very similar to her,
but she's a three wing too.
And it's like a very different,like, in some ways you're like,
thank God you're bringing this,like, two energy over here.
You're like so lively andrelentless with your energy and
like, you're like, wake up attwo in the morning if you need
to, if we need something orwhatever.
But yeah, I, I feel like the,the ability to dive into that

(26:56):
four wing is for me, at least ina relationship is like
essential.
I was like, this, I need this.

Steph Barron Hall (27:02):
Do you know her subtype?

Colton (27:03):
I think it very much seems to be social.
We've talked a lot about it.
But yeah, I would, I would leansocial, you know, she'd have to
have a little bit more thoughtabout that.

Steph Barron Hall (27:15):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Colton (27:17):
yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (27:18):
I don't know if you know, I'm a type three

Colton (27:20):
Oh, nice.
I did not know that.

Steph Barron Hall (27:21):
So it's really funny because I loved the
Enneagram because I liked thatit looked directly at all of
these flaws,

Colton (27:29):
Really?

Steph Barron Hall (27:29):
but I also felt really exposed, but I was
like, I basically think I'mterrible.
So,

Colton (27:35):
also turned it into a career.
So

Steph Barron Hall (27:37):
well, yeah, there you go.

Colton (27:39):
So it's like the performance poetry part of her,
too, where you're like, thisthing is exposing me, but I can
at least handle the narrative ifI'm the one doing the exposing,
you know?
Which I think not to, not tocall it threes on that, but

Steph Barron Hall (27:52):
every hobby I turn into a career and and I
like have literally tried tostop doing that because I'm like
I Can't start any morebusinesses

Colton (28:01):
I know that's a tough, she's, yeah, she definitely had
her season of likedeconstruction where she's like,
no more other things.
I'm just going to work and thisis what I do.
And that was like a huge pieceof permission for her.
Like COVID really helped herlike as awful as that was, you
can pull good things out of anyawful thing.
And like watching her read bookson a back patio and be like
completely like content.

(28:23):
I was like, this is huge forour, Relationship and her
personal journey, you know, andit's still become it's it's
carried through the years sinceyou know Kovat is baited like
she's like attached to herkindle and it is like a great
way to be like you cannot turnthis Into a career.
I'm not doing this for anybodyelse, but myself, you know Taps

(28:44):
into the imagination.
It's not practical.
It's not advancing your careerin any way.
Like you're not reading selfhelp books.
It's just fun fiction.
Just like, you know,

Steph Barron Hall (28:51):
well tell her to call me when she wants to
start writing fanfiction

Colton (28:55):
Oh gosh.
Oh man.
I don't wonder what you'd writefan fiction about.
She like will read everythingthat is fun.
Like popular, she just like tornthrough like the bestsellers or
what's that award that they get,like Pulitzer's, you know, so
yeah, I, she needs a book clubup here now that we live in
Northern California, cause I'mlike the amount of books she

(29:16):
goes through.
I'm like, you gotta be tradingthese off.
Like I catch one out of everylike 50 she reads, you know,

Steph Barron Hall (29:22):
okay, well we have to be friends because I've
read 28 books so far this yearso

Colton (29:26):
Yeah.
I, I, I lose her and my mom allthe time to book conversations,
like at dinners or when shevisits, I'm like.
Alright, I'll be in the backhouse.
I'll see you guys later

Steph Barron Hall (29:38):
see you later

Colton (29:39):
Yeah, it's so like,

Steph Barron Hall (29:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I, I love that.
I love a three who reads anyonewho reads really, it's not, it's
not type specific.

Colton (29:49):
I gotta read more.
It feels like something I'mlacking on.
It was just such a big part oflike self improvement for me for
so long, like going to gradschool and reading so much that
I was like, I don't want toread.
I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't want any more books.
I'm just gonna read like myEnneagram stuff when I'm working
on things and then I'll That'sit, you know?

Steph Barron Hall (30:08):
yeah.
Well, I think even that can bedifficult because sometimes I
get really tired of readingenneagram books.

Colton (30:14):
Oh yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (30:15):
I love self help type books too, but it can
kind of feel like you're alwaysworking.

Colton (30:21):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, it's not my fulltime, so it always feels like
I'm still playing a bit, youknow, and it's, it's fun to read
with content in mind because formost of my journey, I was just
reading to know it and justcause I was fascinated with it.
So now it's interesting to golike, Oh, I haven't really done
anything on that.
Like it would be fun tohighlight this.

(30:41):
It's like a new challenge for meto now ingest it.
It's like, as soon as you startteaching it, you're like, now
it's, it's even sinking deeperin me now that I'm doing this
content.
So

Steph Barron Hall (30:51):
What was it like for you, as a self
preservation one, to start yourYouTube channel and to decide
this video is good enough?

Colton (30:59):
I hated it.
I still really struggle with it.
I always liked collaborativeprojects.
So like my last podcast was withmy best friend, you know, and he
was like a performer and aspeaker.
And he's very like, got a bigpersonality, you know, same
thing with my wife, like MissCharisma, like very lovable.
And I'm like, I'll do stuff withyou guys.
And I'll like, you know, chip inevery once in a while with like,
hopefully something smart tosay.

(31:21):
So to do something alone oncamera, I like, I hated it.
I also just much preferred audiopodcasting.
Cause it doesn't matter what youlook like.
And you don't just don't have tobe so nitpicky about like, Oh
man, I have a lint thing on myshirt.
Dang it.
Like, do I reshoot this video?
Like, that's how particular mybrain is.
I've reshot entire thingsbecause there's a white speck

(31:43):
that flew into my sweater and Ican't look at it.
I'm like, this is driving mecrazy.
And if I just go spend an hour,I can reshoot it and it won't be
there.
You know, there's still, there'sa hundred things in the videos I
put out where I'm like, I hatethis, I hate that, I hate this,
I hate that.
And you just kind of like haveto compromise.
But it is that I think it playsout a lot in my anxiety about

(32:03):
like things, especially myappearance, not being like
perfect and afraid to like, Idon't know, just get picked away
at by people that I don't evenknow, you know, so.
Yeah,

Steph Barron Hall (32:16):
it's funny too because so many YouTubers
just go on or people on TikTokeven are like,

Colton (32:22):
yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (32:22):
you know, they just rolled out of bed and
they're like, here I am.
And I kind of envy those peoplesometimes.

Colton (32:28):
Yeah, it, the amount of time I've spent, like, just
trying to feel okay to be oncamera is, is incredibly, like,
vain and hard to get over.
Like, I can't, it's just hard,because there's part of me
that's like, I have to look atthis, like, in an editing bay
for a little bit, and it sucksto look terrible or look
disheveled, you know?

(32:50):
I also just have a higherstandard in general in life,
where I'm like, I want this tobe evergreen.
I want this to be good And ifit's me rolling out of bed and
just doing like a phone video,which I got a lot of advice to
do that when I first started it,they're like, just shoot
content, man.
Just go for it.
Like, just put it out there.
And I'm like, I don't want tohave to redo all this in like
seven years.

(33:10):
Cause I look back and I'm like,that was utter shit.
Like, Didn't think through it.
A lot of ums, a lot of stammers.
Maybe I even said somethingthat's not true because I just
was like nervous on the, in themoment, you know?
So yeah, it was hard.
I mean, that's why everything Ido is like highly tailored, very
specific.
I've rehearsed it.
I know what I'm going to say.
I give myself a little bit ofroom to play more and more

(33:32):
throughout the years.
But it's still scary.
Every time I riff something oncamera, I'm like, Oh, this is
where you're gonna get introuble.
Here it comes.
Like I made a Trump joke on mylast video that just aired
today.
And I just, the whole time I wasjust like.
Waiting for a comment to comein.
It wasn't even making fun ofhim.
I was just like making acomparison joke to highlight
differences.
And I'm like, I have no stanceon this.

(33:53):
You just, you guys bring yourown stances to this.
I just want to make thecomparison.
Cause it made me laugh, youknow?
So yeah, stuff like that is, istough.

Steph Barron Hall (34:04):
Yeah.
It is.
And it's, it's hard because Imean, it is tempting to be like,
portray.
Oh, I'm neutral.
But I think sometimes even thatis like less palatable to
people.
Right.

Colton (34:17):
I guess it's even more, it wouldn't be honest to say
like I'm neutral, but it is moreso that I'm like, I don't want
this to distract from thecontent that matters, you know,
and that's the hard part.
I do feel like I have a strong,like my mom's a nine and my dad
is a one.
So I have like a perfect splitof them in my brain at all
times.
And I'm like, I don't want toruffle your feathers, but I also

(34:38):
just like, I want to be me onthis thing.
And I don't want to be, I don'twant me being authentic to ruin
the chance that you would listento this.
So it's like constant selfcritical thoughts, just like
bombarding everything I'm sayingon camera, which is really hard
to then keep doing it.
You know?
So, but luckily.
People like it.

(34:59):
So I'm like, all right, if it'shelping and people like it,
let's keep doing it.
And I do like someday I'm like,if I could do this for a living,
this would be great.
I'd talk about a hundred otherthings besides the Enneagram.
But yeah, it is, it is tough.
And it is just kind of like adaily, everyday, get a little
bit more used to it, but stilllike, this is so dumb and so
vain, but even when I grew myhair out, it like, it gave me

(35:19):
fits.
Cause I was like, I don't knowhow to do long hair on camera.
I've had short hair my wholelife.
And I was like, I'm distractedfrom this video because my
stupid hair is like dangling offto the side.
I'm losing my mind.
That's yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (35:34):
I mean, like, I think that the way that you're
saying it, you're like, Oh, thissounds vain, but like it
doesn't.
Right.
Because you're trying to makethis high quality product and
you're like looking at thesedifferent details.
And we all do that to someextent.
Okay.

Colton (35:51):
that deep down, but all it takes is like one shitty kid
to be like, nice hair, loser.
Or like, could have used somehairspray or whatever.
And then you're like, Oh, likeyou see that comment at 11
o'clock at night.
And you're just like sittingthere, like, I'm going to cut my
hair off.
I don't know why, I don't knowwhy I

Steph Barron Hall (36:04):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
No, I, I feel that for sure.
Yeah.

Colton (36:10):
Worse for women than guys.
That's all I can think.
I'm like, this has to be wayworse for y'all.
With like, already living with asocial commentary that exists
all the time, you know?

Steph Barron Hall (36:21):
Yeah, it is kind of interesting to get
feedback on your appearance,like constantly.
And I'm like, like, okay, forbetter or worse, like it doesn't
matter.
It's just constant.
And, and that is a littletiring.
Especially when I'm like, didyou see anything that I actually
wrote or said or

Colton (36:39):
I think people that haven't made content don't know
that that exists.
Stings a lot.
If that's the only thing theythink, Oh, I just was just
saying this.
It was just stood out to me.
And you're like, but that's allyou said.
Or like, you know what I mean?
Like there's, I have so manyexamples of things like that,
you know, where it's just like,that's the last

Steph Barron Hall (36:57):
a typo.

Colton (36:58):
Yeah.
And I'm just like, appreciatethe catch, but like, could you
just say like, awesome video,love this, or like, Hey, these
three things stood out to me.
Also, I think this, you know,you might have like a, Well,
spiderweb in the background,whatever, you know, like

Steph Barron Hall (37:11):
that happen?

Colton (37:12):
No, I'm just, that

Steph Barron Hall (37:13):
Oh.

Colton (37:14):
I've had sons of other ones, but he was like, cool,
thanks.

Steph Barron Hall (37:17):
So how do you deal with that then?
Like, I also have a reallystrong inner critic.
How do you deal with that, withyour inner critic?

Colton (37:26):
a lot of it just goes down to like the ego
deconstruction I'm trying to doevery day, which is why I love
the Enneagram.
Like the whole thing to me,isn't like identifying your
type.
It's picking away your ego.
It doesn't really matter ifyou're to me, if you're a one or
one through nine.
It matters.
You can have all, all of this isexisting in you at some point.
So maybe at some point you needto deconstruct some of these
seven traits in you, even thoughyou're not a seven, you know,

(37:48):
the point of a seven is just tohighlight some of these
personality traits and egofixations.
So whenever I'm stung fromsomeone who's anonymous online,
who I don't know, I'm like, whatis it about me?
That's like letting this, youknow, but I'm also like, well, I
want to respond because I havethe time to, and I try to

(38:08):
respond to everything.
Okay.
Especially now, cause I'm soearly and I can like catch most
comments, like an email.
So I'm like, how do I respond tothis in a way where I'm like,
not offended, but like, have funwith it.
I don't know.
It's really hard.
You know, some, some days itjust hurts more because you're
dealing with a ton of othergunk, you know?
For me, it's always like a, it'sjust a signpost.

(38:30):
So, especially with anger forme, I'm always like, you got
really upset about a dumb line.
Like, what do you need fromthis?
Do you not feel like you'reaffirmed enough?
Do you feel like your friendshaven't really.
Said anything and you wish thatthey would compliment your
video.
And because this asshole saidsomething, you're like,
actually, what you're mad aboutis your friend's lack of praise.

(38:50):
And this kid who just was like,owls, aren't the type seven
spirit animal.
And you're like, I don't care.
I don't care what the spiritanimal, I do that in for fun,
you know?
So it's all fuel for selfawareness.
Every, I feel like every emotionis fuel for self awareness.

Steph Barron Hall (39:06):
Yeah.
And it's also helpful sometimesto, to recognize, I think like,
oh, that comment was not aboutme.

Colton (39:13):
Hmm.
Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (39:15):
Do you have a hater voice that you read troll
comments in?

Colton (39:19):
I hate it.
No, I don't know.
Yeah, I, I don't really,they're, they're kind of like,
they're luckily cause I'm notthat big of a channel.
Like I don't get that much hate.
And I think it's usually thestuff where I kind of know going
into it, I'm about to like stingsomebody.
Like I intentionally went in alittle bit on the nines in the
relationships.

(39:39):
Cause I was like, you guys, I,I'm like, I don't feel like
you're hearing this.
There's a lot of criticalfeedback in here.
And even listening to peoplelike, you know, Russ Hudson,
he's like, nines can read thesethings and go like, this was
beautiful and close the book.
And even one of my best friendsis always like, I'm, you know,
I'm happy to be a nine.
And I'm like, bro, that's notthe point.

(40:00):
You should be catching some ofthese critical thoughts.
And it's, I love that you lovebeing a nine, but I feel like
it's also a little bit of a redflag that you're not like, Oh,
it's also really hard.
So when I lean into that, likecounter narrative, which is why
I started the channel in thefirst place was to be a little
bit of a counter resource to theother things I saw on YouTube.
I'm like, cool, fair game.

(40:21):
You know, they called me anasshole.
I get it.
Like, I know why you'refrustrated.
No one else is saying it likethis, at least on YouTube, all
the books I'm reading are all ofthe, the brilliant minds of the
Enneagram have always beensaying it this critically.
You're just not listening toNaranjo or Hudson or Rizzo.
You're not listening to any ofthese people.

(40:41):
So I can get why you think I'mmaking this up.
Myself, because I have some likebent against nines and it's like
some degree.
I, yeah, I have a bent againstall types.
Cause I can think of someonewho's every number.
So it's not untrue for someoneto call me out for having a
bias, you know, but when peopleget really stung, it's like, all
right, all right, all right.

(41:03):
I get why I just like to havedone it intentionally rather
than stuff like the spiritanimals.
I've had people rail on me forlike.
This is not accurate.
It's so misleading.
I mean, I thought I was a nineuntil you got to the spirit
animals.
And then I was like, what areyou talking about?
And I'm like, I was like, thatwas a deal breaker for the other
25 minutes of highly editedcontent that I made that I was
like, so

Steph Barron Hall (41:23):
Yeah.
I actually have also beenaccused of hating nines or
having it out for nines.

Colton (41:28):
really, that's so funny.
It's kind of good to hearsomeone else getting that,
especially as a three, but like,that's, you know,

Steph Barron Hall (41:34):
I mean.
I have no, they didn't give anyspecifics, so I have no idea
what they're talking about, butI actually genuinely have had
some, like, you know, more on apersonal scale, like, had some
things happen in relationshipswith nines that have been really
hurtful, where they've madeextremely hurtful comments, and
I think just, like, not realizedit.

Colton (41:56):
Yeah, I mean, I've always gravitated towards nines.
Like I've had my childhood bestfriend, my mom, two of my
closest friends are nines.
So, I mean, I'd like four in myqueue and I like love them all
to death.
We seem to, we just seem to fitreally well.
I think the, the wing overlapreally helps.
Cause they say, I always feltlike they say mean things in a

(42:18):
way that people will listen to.
And I say, I say like, how,what's the reverse of this?
It's like, I'm saying a lot oflike critical things, which,
sorry, let me rewind that wholestatement.
Like they can translate thecritical things that I'm saying
in a nice way.
And like their mean thingsactually stand out to me as
like, whoa, that's a realthought, and we can kind of bond

(42:40):
over like this lightheartedplayfulness mixed with like a
lot of critical observations.
They just have a way of sayingit in a very sweet way.
Whereas when I say, even like amildly critical thing, it feels
like a tidal wave of judgment,you know, but I also feel
incredibly safe being playfularound nights.
Like, I don't know, they, thetotal lack of judgment, the

(43:02):
ability to be silly.
And like, I always seem like amore rigid, like buttoned up
person.
And I'm like, see me aroundthese people.
And it's the complete opposite.
Like,

Steph Barron Hall (43:12):
Yeah.

Colton (43:13):
so yeah, I feel like we have a nice little marriage.

Steph Barron Hall (43:15):
yeah, and I think like their ability to be
light and not be so serious allthe time is really refreshing
too, because I tend to havereally intent, really serious
conversations all the time.
And my husband's the same way.
And so

Colton (43:28):
his type.

Steph Barron Hall (43:29):
six.

Colton (43:30):
Oh, okay.

Steph Barron Hall (43:31):
Mm hmm.
He is like gone all around, buthe's landed on social six.
Yeah.

Colton (43:36):
Well, that makes sense.

Steph Barron Hall (43:37):
Yeah, right?

Colton (43:38):
all around.

Steph Barron Hall (43:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So, so yeah, like nine friendscan really bring out that kind
of piece.
And I appreciate that a lot.

Colton (43:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're great for that.
But they definitely, I took thisline from Hudson and one of the
things that he wrote that I putin my video and I was like, they
can be the biggest menace totheir environment of any other
type

Steph Barron Hall (43:58):
Hmm.

Colton (43:59):
because their unwillingness to acknowledge
what is really going on can puteveryone else in harm's way, you
know?
And it's like, I grew up with amom that was that way.
Like I've seen it.
I love my mom.
She's still one of my bestfriends, but she was also
married to an abusive alcoholicfor decades and had a miserably,

(44:20):
like terribly abusive childhood.
And she didn't do jack shitabout it.
And her thing was always like,well, that's your dad, you know,
like, well, you just got tocontain your anger.
And it was like very, thepacifist narrative of like,
don't let him get to you kind ofwas like, don't let him get to
me, like, you know, so it's it,but that's her journey and she's
worked through it and she's madeprogress.

(44:41):
You know, big decisions to freeherself from that herself.
And that's like her, that's likeher big, big thing in life is
acknowledging what is reallyhappening, even when it's
negative, you know?
So, and mine is having grace forpeople who take a long time to
figure out what's reallyhappening.

Steph Barron Hall (44:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and it's like that, thisis fine comic,

Colton (45:00):
yeah, yeah.
With everything on fire.

Steph Barron Hall (45:02):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
But I think that what you'rejust saying too is a really good
point, because I think that kindof is what the Enneagram does
for us.
It like kind of enlightens whatis your kind of big hurdle or
obstacle in life.

Colton (45:18):
Yeah.
At least that's what it shoulddo.
It's just horribly uncomfortablewhen you get to those
conversations.

Steph Barron Hall (45:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, nobody likes that.

Colton (45:26):
yeah, I mean, that's why I'm like, I'd rather put this in
a video and then someone cansend it to you.
Cause if we have thisconversation directly, it's
going to be very uncomfortable.
Like when I do typing sessions,it's like, I tell people from
the jump, I'm like, this isgoing to be uncomfortable.
Part of what you've, you know,signed up for here is for me to
give you what I got, which is avery, like, I'm going to pick

(45:47):
apart the things you're sayingand put them within buckets of
patterns that may really suck tohear, you know, most of them and
well, but every once in a while,it's like, I don't know why you
want to dive into the Enneagram,man.
It's like, if you're not readyfor this stuff, it's going to
suck.
You know, it's not.
It's not StrengthsFinder.
So that's why I made a wholevideo comparing the two systems.

(46:09):
Cause I was like, every time I'maround corporate environments,
trying to talk about theEnneagram, I'm like, I often
feel like what the boss reallywants is StrengthsFinder.
I'm like, you want likecheerleading and you know, you
want, you want to work backwardsfrom the positive.
Whereas I'm like the Enneagramworks backwards from the self
critical, from the negative,from the hard stuff.
And it's, it's super jarring.

Steph Barron Hall (46:30):
It is.
And I think it can be difficultwhen the request is immediate
applicability because That isreally hard.
Like I was just, I was justhaving this conversation with my
book editor actually, becauseshe was like, cut some
description, like leave more ofthis.
And I was like, actually thedescription part is where people

(46:50):
get it wrong.
Like that's where people have ahard time applying it because
they don't understand it wellenough.

Colton (46:56):
yeah, I agree with that.
I mean, when I was trying toeven think about how to teach
it, I wanted to do the Enneagramrelationships first, which is
why I like named the channel.
Like you've got a type, youknow, that whole play on words
of like, ah, she's got a type.
She likes what she likes.
And so I was like, oh, that'scool.
I'm going to do like arelationship series.
And every time I went to explainit, I was like, I can't explain
this without like rewinding intowhat like subtypes are, what

(47:17):
wings are and what integrationand disintegration is.
And I'm like, this is going tobe a.
This is a three hour YouTubevideo.
So I was like, all right, I haveto do the guides first so that I
can be like, there you go.
This is a description of everyconcept.
And there's a little bit ofpractical stuff at the end of
you want it, which I'm alwayshorribly insecure about because
that taps into like my, Youknow, my like worst side of

(47:41):
like, let me teach you somethingyou don't know.
And I'm like, I've, I've beenthat person for so much of my
twenties that it's like,whenever I have to do advice in
these videos, I'm like, itdoesn't make sense to end
without like practical steps.
And I'm like, I don't want to dothis.
Like, I don't want to put thisin the video.
But yeah, it is.
It's like all that context andall those like nitty gritty

(48:01):
descriptions really do fuel,like all the meaty practical
stuff.

Steph Barron Hall (48:06):
You don't want to do it.
Cause you're aware that youmight slip into like that.
More like pedantic mode.

Colton (48:12):
Yeah.
I just, I've been very preachythrough a lot of my life.
I'm sure at some point someonethought I was being preachy on
this podcast.
Like, I don't, I don't knowwhen, but it's just kind of part
of my, you know, my ego that'slike, I have information I need
to share.
Which is like, I've always lovededucation and teaching.
And like, if I could be acollege professor tomorrow, like

(48:32):
I would do that.
I would sign up for that in aheartbeat.
I'm just really tired of collegedebt paying off all my loans.
I'm like, I don't want to dothat again.
But like, if I could go do that,I love classrooms.
I love the space where peopleare hungry to learn.
I love it when people aresharing like diverse
perspectives, but.
I have had this big tendency andbeen called out for it and had
tenuous relationships where itwas like, I was always trying to

(48:54):
like, tell them what wasn'tgoing right in their life or
like how they could be better orlike, you know, not always being
wrong.
It's always, it's that oldsaying of like, it's not what
you're saying.
It's how you're saying it.
And it was like, that was mywhole life of like, you're just
saying it wrong.
You know, I have a really goodmentor that I've had mine, you
know, since I was like 24,sorry, I feel like my voice has

(49:14):
given out.
It's been a long day.
I have hit puberty for those ofyou listening, like my voice has
cracked like 20 times.
I've had a really good softspoken mentor who was a nine,
who I love.
And it was just that constantreminder of like, not that
you're wrong.
It's just the way that you'reloving these people is like very
critical.
You're leading with like 90percent critical, 10 percent

(49:35):
love, you know?
So that's where, when I startgiving critical feedback, it
puts me in that position oflike, I'm in a healthy place and
you're not.
So let me tell you how to fixall this stuff.
And I was like, I don't have anyof this stuff fully nailed down,
dude.
I'm 34 years old.
Like I, yeah, I, I feeluncomfortable.

(49:55):
Cause I always like teachers andmy therapist.
To be way, way older.
I was like, I don't want tolisten to someone in their
thirties.
I'm like, you gotta be in yourlike late forties or fifties,
you know?
And my therapist that I love islike, that's how he is.
He's got his doctorate.
It's in his fifties, had a bunchof kids, had a great career.
And I'm like, that's the guy Iwant to listen to.
Sorry to all the therapists outthere that are in your thirties

(50:16):
and your twenties, and you'restarting a practice.
I'm not saying that you're badat all.
It's just the preference thing,because.
I've been the cocky 25 year oldtrying to lecture people with
decades, more life experience.
And it's like, I'd pass on that,you know?

Steph Barron Hall (50:32):
I mean, I get that.
I was asked to write a bookabout the Enneagram and, like,
love and relationships after Ihad been married five years.
And I was like, I don't haveanything to teach about this
that now it's been five yearssince then, you know?
And even now I'm like, I feellike I know maybe less after 10
years.

Colton (50:51):
Well, it's also like, so case by case to where you're
like, I can write a book aboutthis, but I'm going to let you
know that like 75 percent ofthis is going to be theory,
like, cause I have not beenmarried to a four or a seven or
like, you know what I mean?
Like I may have dated a few ofthese types, but I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that's, it'salso the funny part when people
disagree with things where I'mlike, you're not disagreeing
with a 34 year old cold andyou're disagreeing with like

(51:11):
people that have like 70 yearsof combined experience in this,
because that's who I'm readingand I'm just repackaging it for
you in a way that I hope is morepalatable because you're not
going to go buy all these books.
And read them, you know, that'smy whole thing.
I'm just like a knowledge brokerin a lot of ways where I'm like,
I'm giving my personal spin onthis and like what I think
stands out, but to, I'm like,God bless the people that have,

(51:34):
you know, the cojones to likewrite stuff when I'm like, you
don't even know half of thisstuff, like, you know, so, so it

Steph Barron Hall (51:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Colton (51:44):
There's authors all over the Christian space that write
books about the Enneagram whereI'm like, you just found this
like three years ago.

Steph Barron Hall (51:50):
And

Colton (51:50):
have a

Steph Barron Hall (51:50):
and it shows.

Colton (51:51):
Yeah, you have a platform, and like, this is not
great.
Like, I don't know.
I've had people be like, youneed to read so and so's book.
And I'm like, alright, I'll gobuy that.
And I'm like, this is The mosthigh level, like my video is
deeper than this.
Like, you want me to read this?
Like, what about it?
Like, but there's my arrogance.
I told you it was going to comeup in this video.
Like, there's my, like, I havethe answers.

(52:13):
I've read the right materials.
I've spent the right amount oftime on this.
And so it ties back to why I'mlike, ah, I just, I struggled
with it a lot in therelationship series because I
was like, man, it's just, I'mgiving advice and that's like a
fifth of the video and it feelsreally uncomfortable.
But I didn't want to end withconflict.
Like, I didn't want to leavepeople in a space where I was
like, and here's how yourrelationship might be really
shitty.

(52:33):
All right, like and subscribe.
I'll see you later.
Yeah,

Steph Barron Hall (52:38):
yeah.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
And I think that that is justpart of like this process,
right?
Of like creating content thatyou want to be useful, battling
your own ego along the way, likeis what it is.

Colton (52:50):
This is why I didn't go into ministry right out of the
jump.
I mean, I, like, I got mymaster's in theology when I was
25.
Gosh, it's been a while now.
And I had a bunch of people thatjust went and started running
churches.
And I was like, damn, you'velike thousands of people.
Some of them are like in their80s and 70s.
And I've been through wars andlike death and going to go, all

(53:12):
right.
Like, I just always had a hardtime with that.
And I think some people aregreat at it.
And I think some people'sconfidence has helped them get
places quicker than me because Iwas more self effacing or too
scared to not do it right thefirst time.
So there's a good side to likewhat they were doing, but it's
just, I've never been wired thatway.
I was like, I'll study this for10, good 10 years and then I'll

(53:34):
make a video about it.
You know?

Steph Barron Hall (53:36):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that there's somethingto be said for that, that slower
process too.

Colton (53:41):
Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (53:43):
If somebody is new to the Enneagram and they
just found out they're one, doyou have like one quick tip for
them?

Colton (53:49):
One quick tip.
Just start complimenting peoplemore.

Steph Barron Hall (53:54):
Oh, I like that.

Colton (53:56):
Just do it.
It's a muscle you're so weak at.
It's like skipping leg day.
And ones who've skipped leg daytheir whole lives.
Most of the time.
Unless they're crazy healthy.
But,

Steph Barron Hall (54:07):
Yeah.

Colton (54:08):
it'll matter.
It's just that the weird part isI discount.
I've seen that one's discountthe weight of their critique,
which means they devalue theweight of their affirmation as
well.
They're like, Oh, I'm justtelling you, like, by the way,
that this was not a good thingthat you did.
This shouldn't matter.
And then they're like, I'll justwon't even say the compliment
because that doesn't even mattereither.
You know, where it's like, it'sweird to know that your words

(54:29):
really have an impact.
It's kind of scary.

Steph Barron Hall (54:31):
Yeah.
That's such a good one.
Okay, final two questions I askeveryone.
Tell me about a book that hashelped you, refreshed you, or
shaped you in the last year.

Colton (54:40):
This goes back to my wife's potential book club that
she should start with you.
I loved gentlemen in Moscow perher recommendation.
I thought that book wasincredible.
And it was so like, I read thatduring the pandemic, which felt
like being trapped.
And have you read that bookalready?
Oh my gosh.
It's so good.
I really recommend it.
It starts so slow.

(55:01):
It took me so many times to getinto it, but she was like, you
have to read this.
You're going to love this guy.
Like he's right up your alley.
And so like the fourth time itwas like on vacation and I was
like, okay, fine.
I'll bring a book.
And I finally like pushed pastthe first couple of chapters and
it was like, When it ended, Iwas like choked up.
I was like, I don't want to nothave this character in my life
anymore because the way, I don'tthink it ruins anything.

(55:22):
Like he's basically like thismember of like high Like he's an
aristocrat essentially in Russiawho like at the turn, when they
have the revolution, like theRussian revolution, and they'd
like, you know, either kill orcapture all those like wealthy
aristocrats, he, by basicallyluck and some fortuitous events
basically becomes held hostage.
They like put them on housearrest at the hotel, hotel,
Metropole.

(55:43):
It's like fancy hotel.
They put them like way up in theattic in a tiny, tiny room.
Basically to satisfy the peoplethat liked him.
That's like, look, we're notkilling him, but we're not going
to let him leave.
So he could like never leave thehotel.
So that's kind of how it starts.
So he's this very buttoned upolder gentleman.
I think he's like in his fiftiesor late forties when the book
starts.
And it spans decades.
And it's him just going throughthese ups and downs and just

(56:03):
constantly having a sense ofdignity while knowing that you
are out of control and totallystuck.
Like that to me was huge.
I was like, this is such abeautiful.
Story, especially while like thepandemic is going on and things
are being taken away from us.
You might have people losingjobs, you're losing money,
you're losing freedom.
And this guy had went throughall those things and granted,

(56:26):
he's like the wealthy 1 percentof society when it starts, which
just made it even worse to mewhen he loses like all that
stuff, you know, but he's justhad the, the brightness of his
spirit was like, I need tofigure out a way to be that
person.
Like, I don't want to be 70.
And only happy if all of mylittle plans work out, you know,
I want to be 70 and no matter ifI'm wealthy, poor, like my job,

(56:49):
don't like my job, whatever,like to be able to have some
dignity and playfulness andlike, just his ability to relish
things, I'm like, to me, it's alot of that, like one to seven
thing.
Like if I can get to that space,it's almost like you're
untouchable in some ways, youknow,

Steph Barron Hall (57:06):
Okay.
I'm going to have to read that.

Colton (57:07):
it's so good.
I hope you like it.
I mean, now that I piped it,like, I think it's amazing.

Steph Barron Hall (57:11):
I think my sisters have read it, so I, and
I think they probably liked it.
So,

Colton (57:15):
Okay, cool.

Steph Barron Hall (57:16):
okay.
Final question.
Tell me a piece of advice thathas really stuck with you.

Colton (57:21):
I love this quote from, I don't, I heard it from Roar.
I think it's like a timelessquote.
That's kind of, it's one ofthose, you know, those like
quotes that gets passed aroundfrom philosopher to philosopher,
and you don't really know whoowns it after a while.
But the, the motto, like we seethe world as we are not at, as
it is, it's really helpful forme with like a really critical
brain to be like, this isbroken, this sucks.

(57:41):
Or like, this could be better.
And it's like, that's notactually how that is, which is
kind of a scary thing to checkyour reality that hard and go
like, this is literally I'm theonly one that sees that exactly
the way I'm seeing it.
Which is more of a commentary ofhow I'm doing personally.
So for like all of my, likeconflicts I've had with people
throughout my life, it's like,you're seeing them as you are

(58:04):
not as they are is like thefirst place I have to start with
everything.
Same thing with like, is theworld a dangerous and fucked up
place?
You know, like, is it, or isthat how I feel today?
That's how I am.
I feel like.
A mess.
And I feel messed up.
So then I'm like, the world'sdark.
Why would you even bring kidsinto this world?
You know, and I'll have thosemoods, you know, and you're

(58:24):
like, this is a lot more to dowith literally how I'm
functioning on the inside and ittook me like years and a lot of
like anxiety attacks to figurethat out, that it was like, it's
not an external thing.
It's not like, because my job isweird.
And my boss is immature orwhatever.
Like I got here because of me.
So,

Steph Barron Hall (58:45):
Yeah.
And to recognize like what theEnneagram, I think that's what
we're doing is like seeing, oh,this is the lens.
This is the pinhole that I'mseeing the world through

Colton (58:55):
Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (58:56):
and like expanding it.

Colton (58:58):
Yeah.
And then it ties to like a senseof what my understanding of
grace, which is like, if you'rehoping for healing and change in
your life and all these toolsyou've used to get here, you
can't use those same tools toget out of it.
So then you just, to me, it'sthat spiritual notion of like
grace where you're like, allright, God, I, I need help.
I can't, I literally can't, Ican't change my view of reality,

(59:20):
but I know it's messed up.
So like I need it to change.
So not to get a little preachythere at the end of your
podcast, but,

Steph Barron Hall (59:28):
No, it's great.
It's, it's really helpful.
Okay, tell us where we can findyou.

Colton (59:33):
You've got to type on YouTube is where I am pretty
much all the time.
If you've got comments, I willprobably see them and respond to
them.
I'm rarely on Instagram.
I use that mostly just to likepush my videos out and I can
really only handle one platformat a time.
So yeah, you've got to type onYouTube.

Steph Barron Hall (59:49):
Cool.
Well, thanks so much for joiningme.
This is so great.

Colton (59:52):
Thanks so much for having me.
It's you go by Steph, but yourname is Stephanie down here.
So I was like,

Steph Barron Hall (59:56):
Oh, yeah.
I forgot to change

Colton (59:58):
All right, cool.
I was about to, I'm like, don'tshortcut someone's name when you
don't know them well enough tolike throw out a nickname.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:04):
Oh, no.
Yeah,

Colton (01:00:05):
It's like when people call me Colt and I'm like, bold
move.
I like it.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:08):
Okay.

Colton (01:00:09):
Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:10):
Well, thanks so much.

Colton (01:00:11):
Thanks.

Steph Barron Hall (01:00:13):
Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram
IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
want to stay connected.
Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway

(01:00:34):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.

(01:00:55):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support fromBrandon Hall.
And additional support fromcrits collaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on spotify