January 7, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode, I'm excited to share an excerpt from my brand new book! In Enneagram in Real Life, you’ll find a step-by-step guide to use the Enneagram as a practical tool for self-discovery, self-awareness, curiosity, and relational wholeness.
Listen in to learn why I wrote the book, who it's for, and some of the challenges I've faced on my own Enneagram journey.
There's still time to preorder! If you are at all interested in the book, I would love it. If you would preorder. This is the single most helpful thing you can do to support authors like me because it lets publishers and retailers know that people are interested in the book. So if you want to support my work, OR you're just curious about the Enneagram, this is a fantastic way to delve into it.
PREORDER HERE: https://www.ninetypes.co/enneagram-in-real-life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Enneagramand real life.
A podcast where we explore howto apply our Enneagram
knowledge.
In our daily lives.
I'm your host, Stephanie Barronhall.
And on today's episode, I have alittle something different
planned.
So you may know that I have anew book coming out three weeks
from today, January 28th, 2025.
(00:27):
And.
I wanted to share a little bitabout the book and what inspired
me to write it, and then alsoshare a little bit of the book
itself.
So I'll be reading you anexcerpt from the book later in
the episode.
Like many of you, I found theEnneagram through.
Other people in my liferecommending it to me and kind
of inspiring me to check it out.
(00:49):
And I immediately loved it and Iwanted to learn everything I
possibly could.
So I started reading any groundbooks.
And exploring and looking onlineand just finding all the
resources I possibly could.
And in those early explorations,I.
Heard this advice, which I thinkis very good advice.
Um, which is to study for atleast two years before you start
(01:10):
teaching the Enneagram.
Now I think that's probably goodadvice for a lot of different
things in life.
but.
On this particular topic, Ireally took it to heart because
the Enneagram is so complex andthere are so much to know and so
much to understand, to reallyeffectively teach and apply the
concepts.
So a few years later, when Istarted writing and teaching
(01:31):
about the Enneagram in 2018, Iwas really, really invested in.
Not only understanding thistopic for myself, but really
helping other people tounderstand it too, though.
Of course, I still have so muchmore to learn and I think doing
any grim work always requiresthat we constantly have this
approach of learning andeducating ourselves.
Increasingly over time.
(01:53):
So.
A few years in to writing andteaching about the Enneagram.
I noticed I was hearing the samequestion over and over, which
is.
I know my Instagram type.
Now, what, like, what do I dowith it?
And I started talking withpeople a lot more about this
question.
So people would send thisquestion, be it, um, DMS on
Instagram, or ask him commentsbecause they said, you know,
(02:16):
you're pointing out of theshadow sides, but how do I not
do this stuff anymore?
and I think that's an excellentquestion and something that I
had asked myself too.
And.
Over the years I'd gained allthese skills and all of this
information and insight into howdo we actually do this?
Like, how do we.
kind of evolve from thesestereotypical or average level.
(02:36):
Behaviors and kind of move intothe next part of our attorney.
And so part of my training withthe Enneagram, Included learning
how to do typing interviews.
So a typing interview is aninterview.
It's not like coaching.
it's kind of like sitting downand taking an assessment, but
the person asking you thequestions is a person And.
(02:59):
I get to ask all these follow upquestions and just hear people's
stories and get really curiousabout it.
But it's a standardized set ofquestions that I use every time,
which is really useful because.
I get to here.
So many people have the sametype answer, the same question.
and so I get all this data of,you know, what do people
(03:19):
typically say about their typeand their, their experience of
being X type.
At the end of these interviews,I say, well, the evidence points
to.
X type.
And it's not to say, this isdefinitely your type, but from
what you said, This is what I'mhearing.
And I reflect back to them, someof the statements that they
said, or some of the differentpoints of why I'm leaning that
(03:43):
direction.
And so we go into type andsubtype in that process.
and then we have a conversationand a lot of the time, what I
would hear back is if I typesomebody as a one, for example,
I feel like I just don't feellike I'm a perfectionist enough
to be a one or three might say,I don't feel like I'm successful
enough to be a three.
And the problem was not thatthey weren't enough of those
(04:04):
things.
The problem was that they didn'thave a deep enough understanding
of all the inner workings ofeach Enneagram type to really be
able to determine if the typereally fit.
And so I built a course.
So it's called, any Ram in reallife.
It's a course.
And it.
Goes deep into every singletype.
And I ran it as a cohort thevery first time.
(04:26):
And I met with the participantsevery week and we had these
discussion groups and, littleworkshops where we were really
applying all of the differentgrowth activities that were
embedded in the course itself.
And again, I heard the samething.
Which was, I didn't realize thatthis was part of the Instagram,
or I didn't realize that thiswas part of my type.
And again, that really helped meto understand.
(04:47):
Okay.
The problem is that.
The information that we, a lotof us have available.
Day-to-day.
Is somewhat basic or somewhatshallow.
And that that's understandable.
That is kind of the nature ofsocial media.
And I know that's where a lot ofpeople get any grim information.
And so I wanted to make it evenmore clear and accessible and
something really practical.
(05:07):
Now.
Does this mean that I wrote theshortest book imaginable?
No, it doesn't because it turnsout there's still a lot to be
said about the Enneagram, but Ireally wanted to create a
resource.
That was something that I haveneeded throughout my process,
which is I don't typicallygravitate toward resources that
have a spiritual or religiousbent in them.
now there are an eight spiritualaspects of the Enneagram, but, I
(05:31):
don't tend to focus on those asmuch because generally in my
day-to-day life with theEnneagram I teach in corporate
spaces.
And in corporate, you have to bepractical.
You have to be applicable.
and not spiritual.
And so that is a great fit forme.
And what I realized was, that Iwanted to provide more resources
for people who were like me.
(05:52):
So this book has been in theworks for two and a half years.
But I am really happy with howit turned out, because I really
want to give you.
A really in-depth guide.
Now it doesn't have everythingthat you could possibly imagine
about the Enneagram.
There are certain aspects of theanagram that are not included.
And that is actually for thesake of space and to make it
(06:13):
accessible.
So this book is for people whoare brand new to any grant or
for people who are, who haveread a couple books already
about the Enneagram.
And they just want a differentperspective.
So in the process of writing thebook, I interviewed at least one
person of every single subtype,which is in addition to the
hundreds of typing interviews Ihave conducted over the years.
(06:36):
and so I really wanted to askthem specific pointed questions
about.
Themselves and how they see lifeand the way that they approach
things.
So in each chapter, you'll finda story from one of these
individuals.
And I'm so grateful to all ofthem, for sharing with me
because the story is, reallybring the types of life.
I really want you to be able tounderstand more viscerally what
(06:57):
it's like to be each type andsome of the nuances that are
there within the types.
So later this month, I will betouching on each of the
chapters.
So I can give you more of anoverview of what those entail.
But for today, I wanted to shareit the introduction.
Now, I know some people skipintroductions when they start a
(07:18):
new book.
Personally, I love anintroduction.
I love that story, that kind offrames the entire rest of the
book.
And I wanted to share mine withyou.
So this is me just reading it.
Though, if you, if you love theway that it sounds, and you'd
like to keep hearing more, I'mactually reading the audio book.
So I've recorded the audio bookand you can find that wherever
(07:40):
you find audio books, um, andyou'll hear my voice, uh,
reading it to you.
So hearsay introduction to anygram in real life.
The door to my second floor,apartment swings wide, and I
dragged myself over thethreshold.
Wariness creeps through mybones.
With one glance, my husbandjumps into action.
(08:01):
His face stricken with concern.
What do you need?
He asks.
Want me to draw you a bath?
It's a struggle to even formwords.
Sure that sounds nice.
Ion.
By the time he returns.
No more than five minutes later,I've collapsed in a heap on the
entryway linoleum.
Key's still in the door.
I'm dead asleep.
(08:22):
15 hours earlier.
I parked on San Julian street.
It's early and most of LosAngeles is still asleep.
So I don't even have to circlethe block for a good spot.
The morning is dark and stillcool.
As I grabbed my notebook andhead inside the Los Angeles
Flower Mart.
My wedding floral designbusiness I started as a hobby,
but three years in I'mdedicating every hour of PTO for
(08:45):
my nine to five job to it.
Producing increasingly ambitiousweddings.
This Thursday morning pickup isstandard for a Saturday wedding.
So my favorite vendor hasalready prepared the bulk of my
order on a tall cart.
After brief hellos, I wander therest of the vast warehouse
crossing odds and ends off mylist.
Bits of texture and unique colorways.
(09:07):
We'll add something special tothe bouquets.
I'll prepare over the next 48hours.
Once I found the perfectranunculus and an enemies for
the bouquets.
I pack the bundles of greeneryand florals into prepared five
gallon buckets lining the trunkof my car.
My favorite local coffee shop isstill dark.
So I hopped back on the fivefreeway and take the one 10
north.
(09:27):
This wedding is special becauseI've known the bride for years
and we've designed a beautifullypersonalized backyard wedding
reception.
All day Thursday, my bride'sfamily and friends gathered to
iron tablecloths, set up rentedtables and chairs and wrap
greenery into long lushgarlands.
It's also my first and onlyforay into event coordination.
(09:48):
So I spend the afternooncoordinating.
Vendor arrivals, delegatingtasks and assembling
foundational elements of thecenterpieces and bouquets.
By the end of the day, my Fitbitreading is over 25,000 steps.
Only in my car on the 90 minute,drive back home, does my body
begin to relax from the buzzingenergy of the day.
(10:08):
The following days, we'llsustain the same frenetic pace.
In retrospect, my husband wasalarmed by my falling asleep on
the floor, but he wasn'tsurprised.
By that point.
He'd seen this cycle of manytimes, the thrill of this work
kept me hooked.
I embraced the hard deadlinesand the ability to create
something beautiful andtangible.
(10:28):
But working a full-time job.
In addition to building awedding business was
unsustainable.
I didn't know it then, but I hadjust begun my penultimate
wedding season.
This event coincided with myearly any grim learnings.
I was just waking up to mytendency to place all my worth
in my productivity and howimpressive others found me.
I'd always chased the magicalwarmth of success.
(10:51):
There is something about it thatmade me feel proud and glowing
accepted.
Like I finally belonged.
So when I found a creativeoutlet that people would admire
in photos for years to come,something that would feature my
work.
And my favorite publicationslike style me pretty and green
wedding shoes.
I leaped headlong.
I knew enough about theEnneagram to know.
(11:13):
That as a type three, I excelledone challenged.
I love to work hard and bask inthe glory of a project.
Well done.
My mantra was if you're notfalling over at the end of the
day, you haven't worked hardyet.
The first time I heard Bernaybrown referred to exhaustion as
a status symbol, we wear as abadge of honor, I thought, how
is that a bad thing?
(11:34):
I was what I now call a hustlemonster.
In the midst of all this, Ididn't truly know myself.
I simply didn't have time to,when I started learning more
about the Enneagram, I wasshocked.
I thought I was in tune with myemotions.
I thought I was gentle and kindand compassionate.
(11:54):
But the people around me mostlyreceived a too busy version of
me who delegated tasks, becauseyou don't have much going on
this weekend.
Do you, babe?
What's yours is mine, includingyour time.
In short, I was a less peopleoriented version of Leslie
Knope.
In other words, kind of anightmare.
Soon, the tenuous balance Iconstructed came crashing down.
(12:18):
It wasn't the first time Ilearned this lesson.
I was even more intense before Icame down with shingles.
After a series of all nightersworking on a ninth grade English
project.
Nor would it be the last.
Burnout hit me in a wave and Isimply couldn't care anymore.
I was too sleep deprived andexhausted to care.
(12:39):
If I booked more weddings.
The crushing weight of sayingyes too often and no, almost
never left me depleted.
Wrung dry.
I didn't want to carry any morebuckets up three flights of
stairs.
A bride who asked for a dailyproposal update was the final
nail in the coffin.
I announced I was not taking anymore weddings, abandoned my
(13:03):
inbox and went on anon-work-related vacation for
the first time in years.
During this time, I startedreading about the Enneagram
beyond the basics.
I learned that flaming out isinevitable when you're burning
the candle at both ends.
I learned that my friends couldsee through the facade I'd
subconsciously created anddutifully upheld.
(13:25):
Early in life I'd been labeledas the sensitive one.
Though I would now describe myyoung self as perceptive image
conscious or fearful.
So I thought I had a naturalconnection to my emotional
realm.
But I've learned that beingsensitive and expressing big
emotions because your system canno longer bottle them.
Is not the same as having a deepsense of emotional awareness.
(13:49):
While the achiever moniker,ascribed to Enneagram threes
immediately resonated.
Accepting this label allowed meto question my assumptions about
myself and the world around me.
Studying the Enneagram became amirror for me.
If a friend had said.
Steph, you tend to shift how youpresent yourself, depending on
who you're around.
(14:09):
It sometimes makes me wonderwhat you really think.
And what's important to you.
I probably would have rejectedthe notion outright.
But reading about this typethree archetype allowed me to
recognize traits that resonatedand get curious about traits
that didn't.
Instead of rejecting a trait.
I started to ask.
Hmm.
(14:29):
Do I do that?
The depersonalization offeredenough space that I could
observe these ideas withoutdefensiveness, thereby opening
the path for inner work ahead.
In the intervening years.
I've learned more about myselfand more about the Enneagram.
In 2017, I started nine types coan Instagram account dedicated
(14:52):
to selling any grim specificcoffee mugs.
They were great gifts, but soonI recognized that people
followed and shared my postsmore.
What I talked about theInstagram tool itself.
In 2018.
I began teaching the Enneagramand team and small group
settings.
Drawing on my past experience,leading teams and using
personality tools forprofessional development.
(15:13):
But at the end of the year, Ihad a semester of a masters
degree in strategic andorganizational communication and
leadership under my belt.
And I'd completed my first, anygram certification.
Writing about the Enneagrambecame a fun pastime.
And not nearly as demanding asmy years as a wedding florist.
As my account on Instagram grew.
So did my knowledge of theEnneagram.
(15:34):
I crowdsourced responses toquestions and then compare the
answers to well-established anygrub texts on my shelf.
Throughout my graduate studies,I focus on self knowledge as a
path for improved intra andinterpersonal communication.
By 2022, I'd completed trainingwith integrative nine Enneagram
solutions.
And later that year, I graduatedfrom the Chestnut Paice
(15:56):
Enneagram academy, to date.
I've worked with thousands ofindividuals on six continents.
And dozens of companies who usethe Enneagram to improve
organizational effectivenessthrough stronger teams and
productive communication.
Through this work, I found thatthe challenge with the Instagram
is twofold.
The first is that it's a complexsystem that looks deceptively
(16:17):
simple.
It's just nine numbers.
How hard could that be?
As we'll explore later in thisbook, there's a lot more to the
Enneagram than that.
When working with typing andcoaching clients.
I hear a lot of stereotypes,assumptions about specific
types.
And sometimes these are holdingthe client back from truly
understanding themselves.
(16:39):
The second is that tools forreal life application have
historically been sparse.
In my years, working with theEnneagram, both personally and
professionally, I've heard thesame question time.
And again, I know my type, butwhat do I do with it?
Advice can be abstract in partbecause everyone is different
and tailored.
Coaching requires a one-to-onerelationship.
(17:02):
But there is a middle way.
And this book is designed tooffer you practical, actionable
tools that have worked for meand my clients.
That's why I wrote this book.
Because I know thatunderstanding yourself through
the Enneagram will change yourlife.
If you apply it.
I've seen it happen time.
And again, It starts with aglimmer of insight.
(17:23):
That moment of awareness.
Oh, that's why I do that.
Or the realization that yourspouse is not using your very
last nerve as a tight rope onpurpose.
They just see the world from adifferent lens.
Or the alarming recognition thatyour way of leading is sending
you, our employees are runningfor the Hills resulting in
cycles of burnout and constantturnover.
(17:45):
This is where our work begins.
That's not to say consciousnessof these dynamics brings
instantaneous change.
My life story.
It features many cycles ofburnout.
The latest of which occurredwhile writing this book.
It was as most sophisticatedscholars might say.
A doozy.
Which led to a deep depressionand many months of feeling
(18:07):
unrecognizable to myself.
The sinkhole of hopelessnessnearly swallowed me whole.
What emerged was a newunderstanding of myself and what
I value.
The quest for admiration, socentral to the Enneagram three
psyche.
Comes at the cost of anessential concept of self.
Until we have these seismicevents in our lives.
(18:30):
It can feel foreign for a threeto have a clear sense of
identity or worth unrelated tothe perceptions and expectations
of others.
I will never discount theunbearable darkness of
depression.
Yet I can see how that seasonsshifted my perspective and
allowed more clarity in my ownidentity and unshakeable innate
worth.
(18:51):
My first draft of thisintroduction submitted on the
brink of burnout.
Was a succinct and polishedstory.
I thought that made me credible.
But here's what I know now.
A year later.
I am a full human with flaws andgifts and strengths and humor
and mistakes.
I allow myself to be imperfectand still in progress.
(19:13):
And I invite you to do the same.
Above all.
I consider myself a student ofthe Enneagram on an inner work
journey.
Just like you.
Throughout the years, I'vewrestled with my own process to.
While much of my growth work hascentered Enneagram specific
coaching in our work retreatsand other activities.
Working with licensed mentalhealth professionals has been
(19:34):
instrumental in my progress.
The Enneagram is an incredibletool, but it's not the be all
and end all for inner work.
In my experience, all thesedifferent angles can work in
concert.
This book is filled withexercises to challenge and
support you on your path.
But please consult with yourpersonal mental health care
provider.
If you are uncomfortable oruncertain about any of the
(19:57):
practices offered, if you'reable to access therapy, I've
also included some resources foraffordable therapy in the
resource guide.
Which can be found in the endnotes.
As we embark on this journeytogether.
You'll move beyond the basics ofthe Enneagram to embrace growth,
oriented, learning, andactionable change.
This book will equip you withthe skills you need to apply the
(20:18):
Enneagram in your real life.
But here's the thing.
To get the most from this book,you'll need to put it into
action.
Passively absorbing information.
Won't move the needle.
This book is all about the trialand error process of discovering
the best way to apply theEnneagram in your life.
Thank you.
For entrusting me as a guide onyour any grim journey.
(20:41):
I can't wait to see where ittakes you.
Always in your corner.
Steph.
So there you have it, theintroduction to any grim in real
life.
And.
If you are interested at all inthe book, I would love it.
If you would.
Pre-order.
Pre-ordering is one of thethings that is most helpful for
(21:02):
authors because it indicates tothe publisher, Hey, I'm
interested in this book.
And then all of those numbers,all of the pre-order numbers are
included in the first week ofsales.
And it's a fantastic way if youreally like the podcast or if
you like my Instagram, or you'rejust curious about the
Enneagram, it's a fantastic wayto delve into it.
Um, to support my work.
(21:22):
If you're not able to do that,but you still want to read it.
Be sure to check it out at yourlocal library and request it.
if it's not already availablethere, so you can grab the
ebook, the hardback or the audiobook.
All three of those are excellentways to support, to purchase the
book or to learn more, you cango to nine types.co.
And click on the banner at thetop that says book.
(21:44):
Or you could just GoogleEnneagram in real life by
Stephanie Barron hall.
And you can find the book,wherever books are sold.
And if you want a specificchapter.
So if you can imagine, you know,I want to know this about your
book there.
I want to hear a little bit fromthis chapter.
Shoot me a DM on Instagram andI'll tally up the responses and
I'll read you a little bit more.
(22:06):
Next week.
So I hope you enjoy the rest ofthe week and I'll have a new
interview out for you soon.
Steph Barron Hall (22:15):
Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram
IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
want to stay connected.
Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway
(22:36):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.
(22:56):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support fromBrandon Hall.
And additional support fromcrits collaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on spotify
Hello, and welcome to Enneagramand real life.
A podcast where we explore howto apply our Enneagram
knowledge.
In our daily lives.
I'm your host, Stephanie Barronhall.
And on today's episode, I have alittle something different
planned.
So you may know that I have anew book coming out three weeks
from today, January 28th, 2025.
(00:27):
And.
I wanted to share a little bitabout the book and what inspired
me to write it, and then alsoshare a little bit of the book
itself.
So I'll be reading you anexcerpt from the book later in
the episode.
Like many of you, I found theEnneagram through.
Other people in my liferecommending it to me and kind
of inspiring me to check it out.
(00:49):
And I immediately loved it and Iwanted to learn everything I
possibly could.
So I started reading any groundbooks.
And exploring and looking onlineand just finding all the
resources I possibly could.
And in those early explorations,I.
Heard this advice, which I thinkis very good advice.
Um, which is to study for atleast two years before you start
(01:10):
teaching the Enneagram.
Now I think that's probably goodadvice for a lot of different
things in life.
but.
On this particular topic, Ireally took it to heart because
the Enneagram is so complex andthere are so much to know and so
much to understand, to reallyeffectively teach and apply the
concepts.
So a few years later, when Istarted writing and teaching
(01:31):
about the Enneagram in 2018, Iwas really, really invested in.
Not only understanding thistopic for myself, but really
helping other people tounderstand it too, though.
Of course, I still have so muchmore to learn and I think doing
any grim work always requiresthat we constantly have this
approach of learning andeducating ourselves.
Increasingly over time.
(01:53):
So.
A few years in to writing andteaching about the Enneagram.
I noticed I was hearing the samequestion over and over, which
is.
I know my Instagram type.
Now, what, like, what do I dowith it?
And I started talking withpeople a lot more about this
question.
So people would send thisquestion, be it, um, DMS on
Instagram, or ask him commentsbecause they said, you know,
(02:16):
you're pointing out of theshadow sides, but how do I not
do this stuff anymore?
and I think that's an excellentquestion and something that I
had asked myself too.
And.
Over the years I'd gained allthese skills and all of this
information and insight into howdo we actually do this?
Like, how do we.
kind of evolve from thesestereotypical or average level.
(02:36):
Behaviors and kind of move intothe next part of our attorney.
And so part of my training withthe Enneagram, Included learning
how to do typing interviews.
So a typing interview is aninterview.
It's not like coaching.
it's kind of like sitting downand taking an assessment, but
the person asking you thequestions is a person And.
(02:59):
I get to ask all these follow upquestions and just hear people's
stories and get really curiousabout it.
But it's a standardized set ofquestions that I use every time,
which is really useful because.
I get to here.
So many people have the sametype answer, the same question.
and so I get all this data of,you know, what do people
(03:19):
typically say about their typeand their, their experience of
being X type.
At the end of these interviews,I say, well, the evidence points
to.
X type.
And it's not to say, this isdefinitely your type, but from
what you said, This is what I'mhearing.
And I reflect back to them, someof the statements that they
said, or some of the differentpoints of why I'm leaning that
(03:43):
direction.
And so we go into type andsubtype in that process.
and then we have a conversationand a lot of the time, what I
would hear back is if I typesomebody as a one, for example,
I feel like I just don't feellike I'm a perfectionist enough
to be a one or three might say,I don't feel like I'm successful
enough to be a three.
And the problem was not thatthey weren't enough of those
(04:04):
things.
The problem was that they didn'thave a deep enough understanding
of all the inner workings ofeach Enneagram type to really be
able to determine if the typereally fit.
And so I built a course.
So it's called, any Ram in reallife.
It's a course.
And it.
Goes deep into every singletype.
And I ran it as a cohort thevery first time.
(04:26):
And I met with the participantsevery week and we had these
discussion groups and, littleworkshops where we were really
applying all of the differentgrowth activities that were
embedded in the course itself.
And again, I heard the samething.
Which was, I didn't realize thatthis was part of the Instagram,
or I didn't realize that thiswas part of my type.
And again, that really helped meto understand.
(04:47):
Okay.
The problem is that.
The information that we, a lotof us have available.
Day-to-day.
Is somewhat basic or somewhatshallow.
And that that's understandable.
That is kind of the nature ofsocial media.
And I know that's where a lot ofpeople get any grim information.
And so I wanted to make it evenmore clear and accessible and
something really practical.
(05:07):
Now.
Does this mean that I wrote theshortest book imaginable?
No, it doesn't because it turnsout there's still a lot to be
said about the Enneagram, but Ireally wanted to create a
resource.
That was something that I haveneeded throughout my process,
which is I don't typicallygravitate toward resources that
have a spiritual or religiousbent in them.
now there are an eight spiritualaspects of the Enneagram, but, I
(05:31):
don't tend to focus on those asmuch because generally in my
day-to-day life with theEnneagram I teach in corporate
spaces.
And in corporate, you have to bepractical.
You have to be applicable.
and not spiritual.
And so that is a great fit forme.
And what I realized was, that Iwanted to provide more resources
for people who were like me.
(05:52):
So this book has been in theworks for two and a half years.
But I am really happy with howit turned out, because I really
want to give you.
A really in-depth guide.
Now it doesn't have everythingthat you could possibly imagine
about the Enneagram.
There are certain aspects of theanagram that are not included.
And that is actually for thesake of space and to make it
(06:13):
accessible.
So this book is for people whoare brand new to any grant or
for people who are, who haveread a couple books already
about the Enneagram.
And they just want a differentperspective.
So in the process of writing thebook, I interviewed at least one
person of every single subtype,which is in addition to the
hundreds of typing interviews Ihave conducted over the years.
(06:36):
and so I really wanted to askthem specific pointed questions
about.
Themselves and how they see lifeand the way that they approach
things.
So in each chapter, you'll finda story from one of these
individuals.
And I'm so grateful to all ofthem, for sharing with me
because the story is, reallybring the types of life.
I really want you to be able tounderstand more viscerally what
(06:57):
it's like to be each type andsome of the nuances that are
there within the types.
So later this month, I will betouching on each of the
chapters.
So I can give you more of anoverview of what those entail.
But for today, I wanted to shareit the introduction.
Now, I know some people skipintroductions when they start a
(07:18):
new book.
Personally, I love anintroduction.
I love that story, that kind offrames the entire rest of the
book.
And I wanted to share mine withyou.
So this is me just reading it.
Though, if you, if you love theway that it sounds, and you'd
like to keep hearing more, I'mactually reading the audio book.
So I've recorded the audio bookand you can find that wherever
(07:40):
you find audio books, um, andyou'll hear my voice, uh,
reading it to you.
So hearsay introduction to anygram in real life.
The door to my second floor,apartment swings wide, and I
dragged myself over thethreshold.
Wariness creeps through mybones.
With one glance, my husbandjumps into action.
(08:01):
His face stricken with concern.
What do you need?
He asks.
Want me to draw you a bath?
It's a struggle to even formwords.
Sure that sounds nice.
Ion.
By the time he returns.
No more than five minutes later,I've collapsed in a heap on the
entryway linoleum.
Key's still in the door.
I'm dead asleep.
(08:22):
15 hours earlier.
I parked on San Julian street.
It's early and most of LosAngeles is still asleep.
So I don't even have to circlethe block for a good spot.
The morning is dark and stillcool.
As I grabbed my notebook andhead inside the Los Angeles
Flower Mart.
My wedding floral designbusiness I started as a hobby,
but three years in I'mdedicating every hour of PTO for
(08:45):
my nine to five job to it.
Producing increasingly ambitiousweddings.
This Thursday morning pickup isstandard for a Saturday wedding.
So my favorite vendor hasalready prepared the bulk of my
order on a tall cart.
After brief hellos, I wander therest of the vast warehouse
crossing odds and ends off mylist.
Bits of texture and unique colorways.
(09:07):
We'll add something special tothe bouquets.
I'll prepare over the next 48hours.
Once I found the perfectranunculus and an enemies for
the bouquets.
I pack the bundles of greeneryand florals into prepared five
gallon buckets lining the trunkof my car.
My favorite local coffee shop isstill dark.
So I hopped back on the fivefreeway and take the one 10
north.
(09:27):
This wedding is special becauseI've known the bride for years
and we've designed a beautifullypersonalized backyard wedding
reception.
All day Thursday, my bride'sfamily and friends gathered to
iron tablecloths, set up rentedtables and chairs and wrap
greenery into long lushgarlands.
It's also my first and onlyforay into event coordination.
(09:48):
So I spend the afternooncoordinating.
Vendor arrivals, delegatingtasks and assembling
foundational elements of thecenterpieces and bouquets.
By the end of the day, my Fitbitreading is over 25,000 steps.
Only in my car on the 90 minute,drive back home, does my body
begin to relax from the buzzingenergy of the day.
(10:08):
The following days, we'llsustain the same frenetic pace.
In retrospect, my husband wasalarmed by my falling asleep on
the floor, but he wasn'tsurprised.
By that point.
He'd seen this cycle of manytimes, the thrill of this work
kept me hooked.
I embraced the hard deadlinesand the ability to create
something beautiful andtangible.
(10:28):
But working a full-time job.
In addition to building awedding business was
unsustainable.
I didn't know it then, but I hadjust begun my penultimate
wedding season.
This event coincided with myearly any grim learnings.
I was just waking up to mytendency to place all my worth
in my productivity and howimpressive others found me.
I'd always chased the magicalwarmth of success.
(10:51):
There is something about it thatmade me feel proud and glowing
accepted.
Like I finally belonged.
So when I found a creativeoutlet that people would admire
in photos for years to come,something that would feature my
work.
And my favorite publicationslike style me pretty and green
wedding shoes.
I leaped headlong.
I knew enough about theEnneagram to know.
(11:13):
That as a type three, I excelledone challenged.
I love to work hard and bask inthe glory of a project.
Well done.
My mantra was if you're notfalling over at the end of the
day, you haven't worked hardyet.
The first time I heard Bernaybrown referred to exhaustion as
a status symbol, we wear as abadge of honor, I thought, how
is that a bad thing?
(11:34):
I was what I now call a hustlemonster.
In the midst of all this, Ididn't truly know myself.
I simply didn't have time to,when I started learning more
about the Enneagram, I wasshocked.
I thought I was in tune with myemotions.
I thought I was gentle and kindand compassionate.
(11:54):
But the people around me mostlyreceived a too busy version of
me who delegated tasks, becauseyou don't have much going on
this weekend.
Do you, babe?
What's yours is mine, includingyour time.
In short, I was a less peopleoriented version of Leslie
Knope.
In other words, kind of anightmare.
Soon, the tenuous balance Iconstructed came crashing down.
(12:18):
It wasn't the first time Ilearned this lesson.
I was even more intense before Icame down with shingles.
After a series of all nightersworking on a ninth grade English
project.
Nor would it be the last.
Burnout hit me in a wave and Isimply couldn't care anymore.
I was too sleep deprived andexhausted to care.
(12:39):
If I booked more weddings.
The crushing weight of sayingyes too often and no, almost
never left me depleted.
Wrung dry.
I didn't want to carry any morebuckets up three flights of
stairs.
A bride who asked for a dailyproposal update was the final
nail in the coffin.
I announced I was not taking anymore weddings, abandoned my
(13:03):
inbox and went on anon-work-related vacation for
the first time in years.
During this time, I startedreading about the Enneagram
beyond the basics.
I learned that flaming out isinevitable when you're burning
the candle at both ends.
I learned that my friends couldsee through the facade I'd
subconsciously created anddutifully upheld.
(13:25):
Early in life I'd been labeledas the sensitive one.
Though I would now describe myyoung self as perceptive image
conscious or fearful.
So I thought I had a naturalconnection to my emotional
realm.
But I've learned that beingsensitive and expressing big
emotions because your system canno longer bottle them.
Is not the same as having a deepsense of emotional awareness.
(13:49):
While the achiever moniker,ascribed to Enneagram threes
immediately resonated.
Accepting this label allowed meto question my assumptions about
myself and the world around me.
Studying the Enneagram became amirror for me.
If a friend had said.
Steph, you tend to shift how youpresent yourself, depending on
who you're around.
(14:09):
It sometimes makes me wonderwhat you really think.
And what's important to you.
I probably would have rejectedthe notion outright.
But reading about this typethree archetype allowed me to
recognize traits that resonatedand get curious about traits
that didn't.
Instead of rejecting a trait.
I started to ask.
Hmm.
(14:29):
Do I do that?
The depersonalization offeredenough space that I could
observe these ideas withoutdefensiveness, thereby opening
the path for inner work ahead.
In the intervening years.
I've learned more about myselfand more about the Enneagram.
In 2017, I started nine types coan Instagram account dedicated
(14:52):
to selling any grim specificcoffee mugs.
They were great gifts, but soonI recognized that people
followed and shared my postsmore.
What I talked about theInstagram tool itself.
In 2018.
I began teaching the Enneagramand team and small group
settings.
Drawing on my past experience,leading teams and using
personality tools forprofessional development.
(15:13):
But at the end of the year, Ihad a semester of a masters
degree in strategic andorganizational communication and
leadership under my belt.
And I'd completed my first, anygram certification.
Writing about the Enneagrambecame a fun pastime.
And not nearly as demanding asmy years as a wedding florist.
As my account on Instagram grew.
So did my knowledge of theEnneagram.
(15:34):
I crowdsourced responses toquestions and then compare the
answers to well-established anygrub texts on my shelf.
Throughout my graduate studies,I focus on self knowledge as a
path for improved intra andinterpersonal communication.
By 2022, I'd completed trainingwith integrative nine Enneagram
solutions.
And later that year, I graduatedfrom the Chestnut Paice
(15:56):
Enneagram academy, to date.
I've worked with thousands ofindividuals on six continents.
And dozens of companies who usethe Enneagram to improve
organizational effectivenessthrough stronger teams and
productive communication.
Through this work, I found thatthe challenge with the Instagram
is twofold.
The first is that it's a complexsystem that looks deceptively
(16:17):
simple.
It's just nine numbers.
How hard could that be?
As we'll explore later in thisbook, there's a lot more to the
Enneagram than that.
When working with typing andcoaching clients.
I hear a lot of stereotypes,assumptions about specific
types.
And sometimes these are holdingthe client back from truly
understanding themselves.
(16:39):
The second is that tools forreal life application have
historically been sparse.
In my years, working with theEnneagram, both personally and
professionally, I've heard thesame question time.
And again, I know my type, butwhat do I do with it?
Advice can be abstract in partbecause everyone is different
and tailored.
Coaching requires a one-to-onerelationship.
(17:02):
But there is a middle way.
And this book is designed tooffer you practical, actionable
tools that have worked for meand my clients.
That's why I wrote this book.
Because I know thatunderstanding yourself through
the Enneagram will change yourlife.
If you apply it.
I've seen it happen time.
And again, It starts with aglimmer of insight.
(17:23):
That moment of awareness.
Oh, that's why I do that.
Or the realization that yourspouse is not using your very
last nerve as a tight rope onpurpose.
They just see the world from adifferent lens.
Or the alarming recognition thatyour way of leading is sending
you, our employees are runningfor the Hills resulting in
cycles of burnout and constantturnover.
(17:45):
This is where our work begins.
That's not to say consciousnessof these dynamics brings
instantaneous change.
My life story.
It features many cycles ofburnout.
The latest of which occurredwhile writing this book.
It was as most sophisticatedscholars might say.
A doozy.
Which led to a deep depressionand many months of feeling
(18:07):
unrecognizable to myself.
The sinkhole of hopelessnessnearly swallowed me whole.
What emerged was a newunderstanding of myself and what
I value.
The quest for admiration, socentral to the Enneagram three
psyche.
Comes at the cost of anessential concept of self.
Until we have these seismicevents in our lives.
(18:30):
It can feel foreign for a threeto have a clear sense of
identity or worth unrelated tothe perceptions and expectations
of others.
I will never discount theunbearable darkness of
depression.
Yet I can see how that seasonsshifted my perspective and
allowed more clarity in my ownidentity and unshakeable innate
worth.
(18:51):
My first draft of thisintroduction submitted on the
brink of burnout.
Was a succinct and polishedstory.
I thought that made me credible.
But here's what I know now.
A year later.
I am a full human with flaws andgifts and strengths and humor
and mistakes.
I allow myself to be imperfectand still in progress.
(19:13):
And I invite you to do the same.
Above all.
I consider myself a student ofthe Enneagram on an inner work
journey.
Just like you.
Throughout the years, I'vewrestled with my own process to.
While much of my growth work hascentered Enneagram specific
coaching in our work retreatsand other activities.
Working with licensed mentalhealth professionals has been
(19:34):
instrumental in my progress.
The Enneagram is an incredibletool, but it's not the be all
and end all for inner work.
In my experience, all thesedifferent angles can work in
concert.
This book is filled withexercises to challenge and
support you on your path.
But please consult with yourpersonal mental health care
provider.
If you are uncomfortable oruncertain about any of the
(19:57):
practices offered, if you'reable to access therapy, I've
also included some resources foraffordable therapy in the
resource guide.
Which can be found in the endnotes.
As we embark on this journeytogether.
You'll move beyond the basics ofthe Enneagram to embrace growth,
oriented, learning, andactionable change.
This book will equip you withthe skills you need to apply the
(20:18):
Enneagram in your real life.
But here's the thing.
To get the most from this book,you'll need to put it into
action.
Passively absorbing information.
Won't move the needle.
This book is all about the trialand error process of discovering
the best way to apply theEnneagram in your life.
Thank you.
For entrusting me as a guide onyour any grim journey.
(20:41):
I can't wait to see where ittakes you.
Always in your corner.
Steph.
So there you have it, theintroduction to any grim in real
life.
And.
If you are interested at all inthe book, I would love it.
If you would.
Pre-order.
Pre-ordering is one of thethings that is most helpful for
(21:02):
authors because it indicates tothe publisher, Hey, I'm
interested in this book.
And then all of those numbers,all of the pre-order numbers are
included in the first week ofsales.
And it's a fantastic way if youreally like the podcast or if
you like my Instagram, or you'rejust curious about the
Enneagram, it's a fantastic wayto delve into it.
Um, to support my work.
(21:22):
If you're not able to do that,but you still want to read it.
Be sure to check it out at yourlocal library and request it.
if it's not already availablethere, so you can grab the
ebook, the hardback or the audiobook.
All three of those are excellentways to support, to purchase the
book or to learn more, you cango to nine types.co.
And click on the banner at thetop that says book.
(21:44):
Or you could just GoogleEnneagram in real life by
Stephanie Barron hall.
And you can find the book,wherever books are sold.
And if you want a specificchapter.
So if you can imagine, you know,I want to know this about your
book there.
I want to hear a little bit fromthis chapter.
Shoot me a DM on Instagram andI'll tally up the responses and
I'll read you a little bit more.
(22:06):
Next week.
So I hope you enjoy the rest ofthe week and I'll have a new
interview out for you soon.
Steph Barron Hall (22:15):
Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram
IRL.
If you love the show, be sure tosubscribe and leave us a rating
and review.
This is the easiest way to makesure new people find the show.
And it's so helpful for a newpodcast like this one, if you
want to stay connected.
Sign up for my email list in theshow notes or message me on
instagram at nine types co totell me your one big takeaway
(22:36):
from today's show I'd love tohear from you.
I know there are a millionpodcasts you could have been
listening to, and I feel sograteful that you chose to spend
this time with me.
Can't wait to meet you rightback here for another episode of
any grim IRL very soon.
The Enneagram and real lifepodcast is a production of nine
types co LLC.
(22:56):
It's created and produced byStephanie Barron hall.
With editing support fromBrandon Hall.
And additional support fromcrits collaborations.
Thanks to dr dream chip for ouramazing theme song and you can
also check out all of theirmusic on spotify
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