March 3, 2025 • 59 mins
Engaging in thoughtful conversations, Leslie Ann Lee shares her journey from historical fiction to the enchanting world of fantasy through her "Legends of the Veil" series. She reflects on her writing journey, creative processes, and the intricate themes explored in her storytelling.
• Discussing early inspirations and writing competitions
• Transition from historical to fantasy fiction
• Delving into the complexity of vampires and elves
• Exploring themes of identity and societal labels
• Leslie's writing process and challenges faced
• The balance of ghostwriting and personal authorship
• Audience engagement strategies for writers
• Anticipating future projects and audiobooks waiting in the wings
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hey, welcome to Entertain this.
A podcast about movies, tvshows and video games and books,
books.
A special today with a specialguest, leslie Ann Lee.
Miss Lee, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm good thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Thanks for joining us .
So, reading through your bio,you said you've been writing
since you could walk.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Pretty much.
Alright and uh, you have whatsix books published uh six
published, and then we'recurrently working on uh the
seventh okay, uh, that's theveil series, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
yes okay yes, the legends of the veil, yep and, uh
, you know, I have lots ofquestions about what your I
guess shtick would be the betterterm to how you got to I guess
more, uh, fantasy fiction andwhen you seem to have started
out in, um, I guess, historicalfiction, is that what you would
call it?
Yeah, okay, yeah yeah butbefore we get into all the the
(01:21):
good stuff, I kind of want toknow your journey as to how you
got to where you're at.
So so you started writing whenyou were young.
Yeah, did you win contests andstuff like that?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so reading and writing has been a part of my
life for forever.
First memories I have are of mymom reading to me Charlotte's
Web and the Lion, the Witch andthe Wardrobe, to be specific.
And then from there I wanted tocreate my own stories, do my
own thing, and so it was.
I was in the second grade and,uh, our school had a writing
(01:54):
competition and I took homesecond place, which was, uh, the
fuel for me to go back and doit again in third grade.
And uh, cause I wanted firstand I still got second, I got
second two years in a row and uh, so from then on it was almost
kind of like a competition withmyself.
(02:14):
I never got that stupid firstplace ribbon and it made me mad,
and so I've just been kind ofwriting ever since, always
trying to better myself and topmyself.
Never won first place for mycreative writing, but I did take
home a couple of first placesfor my poetry, so I guess in the
(02:36):
end I did kind of like come outon top.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Who was that first?
Place guy, yeah, I was about toask Was it the same person both
times?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, it was a different person every single
time.
Oh, I was about to ask was itthe same person both times?
I know it's a different personevery single time.
They probably gave the schoolmore money or something.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
They're teachers on the board.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Suddenly there's a library named after his dad.
It's like what Yep?
I never entered any writingcompetition.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You did a little bit.
I guess you would call thatshort work as a kid kind of
learning how to.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh, yeah, very short.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And poetry I mean, and you said, you did pretty
well with poetry.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, apparently.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I dabble in writing, but poetry Poetry made me want
to rip my hair out.
You have to follow an iambicpentameter.
Do you have a specific style ofpoetry that you, you kind of
cater to?
Do you actually make your wordsrhyme?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
you know, in the beginning, when I was, I think,
I got into poetry because inhigh school, um and we're
talking like freshman, sophomoreyear I would be sitting in
biology class.
I hate, I hate science.
Nothing against it, I thinkit's fantastic, I just don't
like learning it.
And so I would have my, myfive-star notebook and I would
(03:56):
never take biology notes.
I barely graduated this is atrue story because I didn't pay
attention in science, but Iwould be.
I wanted to write, and so youonly had like 45 minutes to come
up with something you know.
And so I would do poetrybecause it was much easier than
doing, like you know, a full onnovel or something.
And so in the in the beginningit was you know, four lines in a
(04:20):
stanza and the first and thirdline, you know lines would rhyme
.
Lines in a stanza and the firstand third line, you know, lines
would rhyme.
And it was all because I was anemotional teenager.
It was all like tragic love andridiculous stupid staff, Like
you know.
And then, as I grew older and Igot into college, again the same
thing.
I never wanted to pay attention, unless it was my literature
(04:40):
English class.
I was writing the poetry and Istarted to do a lot more free
verse.
Okay, and just kind of likemessing around with things.
I don't like rules, I'm reallystubborn, and so to like be told
that like this line had torhyme with this line.
You know it made me mad, yeah,so you know.
(05:01):
I, just so I yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
To be fair, all poets are pretty free spirited to
begin with.
So, establishing rules seemskind of contradictory.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It's kind of like dead poet society.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So who's your favorite poet?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Exactly, yes, my favorite poet, oh geez, I like,
like the, a lot of the.
I guess the old school in thesense of like Yates or
Woodsworth, I think Coolridge,is absolutely fascinating, just
(05:35):
the tangents and the storiesthat he would create.
He always seemed to almost belike on a trip, which was
amazing, because then you haveto go back and interpret things.
But I do love, like MayaAngelou, I love a lot of her
stuff and Langston Hughes.
So it's just, it's kind of likethe wide gambit, because I
(05:57):
think all poets have so much tooffer.
They have, they have somethingthat they bring to the table to
offer.
They have, they have somethingthat they bring to the table.
Um, and so you kind of justhave to learn to appreciate
everything and then kind of comeup with your own interpretation
.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Do you feel that poets um some of the best poets,
are also some of the best prosewriters, and vice versa, or do
you feel like that?
Like Dickinson, I don't thinkshe ever wrote um any any?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, emily, oh, she's so good.
Yeah, no, I think I think itjust is kind of what what you
want to do.
I definitely think that formyself, writing prose has helped
write the poetry, especiallywhen it comes to just word
knowledge and, um, you know,like the dictionary that I carry
around in my brain, um, and sothat, like that, that's been
(06:47):
helpful in writing poetrybecause you have a smaller
amount of space to create a kindof like a bigger image for the
reader and um, but, but then Imean there's, there's, there are
people that have never writtena story in their life and
they're fantastic poets.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So it just depends on the artist, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, Dickinson's definitely one of those examples
Also, you know, I actually wentto her house one time and was
peeking through the floorboardsto see if she stuffed any of
those little notes and stuff.
She would write poetry just toburn it, kind of stuff.
It's just weird peopleobviously doing it for
themselves, not for an audienceExactly, and I, I guess.
I get.
I get, why that works Um yeahfor sure, but uh so, uh like,
(07:33):
for instance uh, tom, here's abig aficionado for Tolkien, who
also is, is a huge you, I guessyou could say poet.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, I think he's just kind of one of those
outlier people where it's therewas so much stuff that he could
do so well, yeah, that is justlike.
What category do you put him in?
It's like he's, he just has hisown little thing.
It's like and that's why the hewas like oh, it's Tolkien esque
.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Linguistic stuff.
Have you ever tried to developyour own language and stuff for
any?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
stories.
No, I cheat.
So there's a lot of in thefantasy stuff that I've done.
There's a lot of old languagelike Gaelic or old Germanic
words that I've just doneresearch on.
I could not.
I true, true story I failedlinguistics three times.
(08:28):
I couldn't.
I couldn't wrap my.
I had to take it for my degree,yeah, so I had to pass, but I
could not because it's thescientific approach to language
which we all know.
I don't like science, so itjust it killed me, um, and I
just never was able to kind oflike understand it and so, yeah,
(08:49):
so when I come up with words,they're just, they're usually
already in existence.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's fair, yeah I would be definitely too lazy to
try and figure something likethat out too.
So right, okay.
So so you're in college, you'reyou, you're succeeding at the
literary craft, but strugglingthrough some of the more core
classes and stuff that they makeyou take, yeah, I can
definitely relate to.
I appreciate that when youfinally were getting through
(09:20):
what was the moment, you feltlike you could sit down and
write a novel.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I think.
Well, I mean, like I did.
I wrote my first book in mysenior year of high school.
Oh wow, and it didn't.
It didn't, it doesn't existanymore.
It was through a publishingcompany that like went like
belly up and then my stuff justdisappeared.
But I mean my first officialbook, which a lot of people that
(09:46):
have kind of known me sincehigh school days, um, that's
their favorite, which I findreally weird because it was.
I wrote it when I was like 17,18 years old and so like I've
just I've grown so much more asa writer since then.
But, um, a lot of people sayit's their favorite, so whatever
.
Um then, but um, a lot ofpeople say it's their favorite,
(10:09):
so whatever.
Um, I think when I finallystarted kind of realizing that I
had the time and this was mymoment and this is what I wanted
to do, um was towards the endof college.
I had planned on being ateacher, an English teacher.
That was kind of just like likewhat am I going to do with with
like this ability?
Like there's nothing else to do.
(10:31):
You know, I might as well justgo and teach English.
Loved my English teacher inhigh school, wanted to be just
like him when I grew up and so.
But then I, the closer I got tograduation, the more I was like,
okay, I love kids, but teaching, teaching just didn't sound fun
(10:52):
to me.
It didn't sound like you knewthat.
I mean, you went through thewhole high school, college
experience.
You know you're going to getyelled at, you know you're going
to have to grade horriblepapers, and I kind of started to
feel like I was going to end uphating the thing that I love if
I went into that profession.
So I asked my then boyfriend atthe time um, we were planning
(11:13):
on getting married and so it waskind of like I need to like you
know, like ask him if this iscool.
Like, are you okay with me justbeing a writer by profession?
What, whatever that means, withme just being a writer by
profession, whatever that means,I'm not going to make as much
and I'm probably going to be athome a lot more, but this is
what I want to do, are you okaywith it?
(11:33):
And the smart man said, yeah,that's fine.
So, yeah, cool.
We can stay together After hegot up and wiped the blood from
his head, right, exactly,seriously, I remember being so
nervous, asking, because I waslike, okay, I don't know what's
going to happen if he says no,like go to school and be a
teacher.
So, yeah, I just I've done alot of kind of like part-time
(11:58):
work in order to keep myselfgoing.
I don't like to be idle, I liketo stay busy, even if I'm not
writing, and so that I kind ofjust do that.
But the luxury with that isthat I can then always be
writing, um, whether it's, youknow, uh, for other people or
whether it's for myself.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So, but all your published work is essentially
for yourself, correct?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
This is true.
Yes, all my published work isfor myself.
I've done a lot of um, likecurrently I'm working for uh, um
, I don't even know what to callthem.
They do like video shorts, um,like theory, like serial,
serialized stories, um, in videoform, but then they take, take.
(12:44):
They take those stories andthey want to convert them into
novel form okay, and so I'mworking for them doing that.
I take, like, the screenplayand I convert it into a novel,
okay, um, and that pays likereally well, which is really
nice, because then I can takethat money and put it towards
the stuff that I want to put outthere that has my name on it.
Yeah, they essentially do that.
That work put out there thathas my name on it.
(13:05):
They essentially do that workas a ghostwriter.
Nobody knows it's me writing it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
What can you tell us?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Anything good, anything we know.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean it's very well , it depends on what you like.
This is all in the romancefantasy.
Well, it depends on what youlike.
This is all in the romancefantasy.
Werewolf falls in love with avampire genre.
Okay so if you like that kindof thing, then yeah, it's
(13:38):
totally for you.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Mitch is definitely more in that category, right up
there.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I don't read so much the romance part, but I love
vampire and werewolf kind ofstories and stuff like that he's
read all the Anne Rice andstuff.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
haven't you.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Well, yeah, I have read those.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So good.
Anne Rice is amazing.
I got to see her house.
I've never seen Dickinson, butI did get to see Anne Rice's and
that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Cool.
Was this before or after shedied?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Cool.
Was this before or after shedied she was already dead, which
made it kind of sad.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
But I was like I had to pay, you know, honor to her
Pay respects.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yep, okay.
So actually, while we'retalking about you kind of
ghostwriting, you know I havedone some research and I have
talked to some friends who arealso, you know, writing and
whatnot, and then the cutoff isjust like you don't make any
money or you make a ton of moneyand um, you know, so people who
are trying to find that middleground, like you are how do you
(14:34):
market yourself to doghostwriting, to, uh, you know,
do any form of writing, uh, likenarrative or prose or whatever
that that can kind?
of get you out there.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Um it's, it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Um.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I've.
I've kind of have found, likemy jobs, my niche, whatever,
through just networking, through, um, knowing, knowing people
who know, somebody who hassomething that's available.
Like this all came aboutbecause I'm part of a local
(15:13):
filmmaker group Okay, and one ofthe producers slash directors
is also part of the groupIronically comes from where
I'm'm from, which is in themiddle of California, like we're
not a big city or anything, butbecause we were part of the
same group and he saw that I wasworking on a project and he was
(15:35):
like, okay, cool, you're awriter, guess what we need?
Writers?
Yeah, so he like he connectedme with the right people and I
ended up with this job, which isjust amazing.
I had a job for years probablyeight, eight to ten where I was
(15:57):
working with students withlearning disabilities at the
local college, with disabilities, learning disabilities at the
local college, and I would helpthem write their essays because
they just they had a lot of likeprocessing, you know,
disabilities, that kind of thing, and so we would, we would work
together and you know how doyou form a paragraph, how do you
(16:18):
write the sentence, because youwant it to be their work, but
you also want it, you want themto learn and grow as much as any
other collegiate.
So and that came aboutliterally because they put an ad
on Craigslist.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Did you find yourself , as a teacher, doing that,
essentially as a teacher?
Like you said, you were afraidyou were going to hate the work.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, and it yeah, and I think this worked for me
because, like, I wasn'tnecessarily teaching, in a sense
I was showing Okay, and it wasvery one-on-one Okay and it was
situations where, you know, thestudents or, in some situations,
(17:00):
the parents.
I had a lot of freshman parentscome to me and like find me,
and you know we would beconnected and it would be
something that, like they wanted, like if they didn't have my
help, they wouldn't be writingan essay, yeah, so it was a very
kind of like one-on-onepartnership, which was a lot
better than being in front of alot of kids, like trying to
teach them Shakespeare and themnot getting it.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Right, I can see the pros and cons for both.
I mean it'd be tough to youknow, especially if somebody on
your level try.
And you know brass tacks, barebones.
Teach just basic.
You know narrative.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, and.
I think I mean for me, I, Ifeel, I feel like kind of like
the written word is is in manyways a dying art, Like it's,
it's um my kids.
I've really struggled with mychildren to, like you know, give
them an appreciation for, likethe classics, um, reading is so
(17:59):
important.
Well, no, mom, we can justwatch the movie.
Well, no, you can't like causethe movie sucks yeah.
Yeah, exactly, I mean, like youknow it's, it's yeah, and so
it's it's you.
I want to give them that likethat appreciation for like the
work that these authors have putin and the ability to use your
(18:19):
imagination.
When you open a book and youjust see words on a page,
imagination and, um, my, my, mydaughter I struggle more with
she's, she's very kind of likeblack and white and factual, and
this is just the way life isthat is my daughter 100.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and it's so, itso it kills me because I'm like
(18:45):
read this book, it's so goodand she's just like this is dumb
well um I who is sorry, I thinkwe got a little bit of a lag.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Uh, I've learned with my daughter.
I've learned with my she's likewe pushed Harry Potter.
We pushed it probably too hardand now she hates Harry Potter.
She doesn't want anything to dowith it.
Right, my son, we just let himwatch the first movie.
He's 8.
My daughter's 16.
My son's like that was a greatmovie, I want to see the next
(19:17):
one.
I was like, well, you got toread the books first.
We got them that way Because mydaughter I can't get her to
read Lord of the Rings, I can'tget her to watch the movies
Because I pushed it too hard.
And I've learned she's anotherfree spirit person.
She reads like all the.
She reads a lot of what I'mthinking is kind of more in
keeping with your genre thefantasy kind of YA books and
(19:40):
stuff.
She's read Shadow and.
Bone and stuff like that.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And one thing I've noticed a lot is like yeah, it
just depends going back with,like the, the ann rice stuff is
like.
A lot of times you can read abook and then you can watch the
movie and the movies.
I like the movie and I like thebook, but the book just has a
lot more in it than what you canexperience in a two-hour movie.
So it just it gives you a lotmore into the characters and the
story and everything.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So yeah, I mean, I mean, like I mean to your point
with with Anne Rice, and so I Iread interview with the vampire
years ago like the club, theclassic, the classic one.
And then I was kind of raised,I, my parents would never have
let me watch the Brad Pittversion of it ever.
(20:30):
But I was just like right,exactly Like I think I I don't,
I, yeah, no way.
Um, I'm a pastor's kid, sovampires are satanic and evil
and so, yeah, it was the wholething.
Um, and so, you know, that waswhat I was raised with and that
was kind of like, even though itwasn't necessarily in keeping
(20:50):
up with the book.
That was the visual that I had.
And then watching the seriesthat you know, there's like two
seasons or whatever of it, it's,it's, it's the same, but it's
so different.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's.
It's a perfect example of howyou take something from a book
and there can be completelydifferent interpretations of it
you know, and and approaches toit.
So yeah, I find thatfascinating.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
That was stuff that drove me insane in high school.
I hated every English class Iwas in and it would be like, oh,
read this and it's like what doyou think the author is trying
to convey?
That the curtains are blue andlike all this crap about the
room they're in.
I'm like he's a horribleinterior decorator.
What do you want me to tell you?
Like I don't know what you want.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, movies can be like that too.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So have you written script work before.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, so before, yeah , I, so yes, so that's that's
the short answer.
Um, the short answer is yes, um.
The long answer is when I was,when I was doing kind of press
tours wasn't a press tour?
I was on a I was on a zoom callwith somebody in um in, uh,
(22:08):
atlanta, um, and I this thisperson had seen some of my stuff
and was like hey, do you wantto like chat about your work?
And I was like absolutely, andwe ended up not even really
talking about writing.
We ended up he's a.
This guy is like very into likeum, he's in the film world, but
then he's also into like healthand fitness, um, so we talked
about really almost everythingabout my writing, which was fine
(22:30):
.
But towards the end of thishour long conversation, the
writing came up and he made thecomment that the Veil books
would make really good moviesand.
I was like I never reallythought about that.
I've always been focused onjust making a novel.
He's like, no, no, you shouldtotally try it and make a
(22:52):
screenplay and and put it outthere and, okay, fine, challenge
accepted.
If you know me, you know thatanytime somebody like says, do
this or try it, I'm gonna do itright.
And so, um, I wrote ascreenplay for the first book in
the series.
It was like writing a foreignlanguage, it's it's so different
(23:12):
from you know, in a novel youjust expand and expand and
expand and you're using allthese words and these visuals
and with the screenplay you justcut it dry.
And you know, because you, youwant to leave things open for
interpretation, for you know,the director and the
cinematographer and whatnot, andso I, I actually had to hire an
editor who was fabulous, he wasout of Germany, of all places,
(23:38):
and he would just cut, like, myfirst draft was like 220 pages,
which is a little.
I mean that was just crap.
The screenplay was way too much, and now it's now as it stands,
it's 141.
And so which is still for somepeople too long.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
For a first movie.
I could see that yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, you know, like it's just like I don't know what
else to cut, like we had allthese conversations about like
you have to remove thesecharacters.
I'm like no, but they're mine.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, that's where you see characters get combined
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Exactly, yeah, like how combined and stuff like that
.
Exactly yeah, that's why Icouldn't do it.
No, it was, it was awful it was, but but it had happened.
And so now, on top of likewriting novels, I'm writing
screenplays and that's kind oflike a parallel road that I'm
taking with not only promotingthe novels and getting the word
(24:28):
out about the novels, but thenalso like kind of like wandering
through the world of filmmakingand film festivals and film
competitions to see if, if andwhen there's a possibility of
you know, getting options plussomething writing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
writing in present tense sucks.
I hate it so much, it's sotough to do, it's awful.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, and with the, with the, the ghost writing, I
have to write in first person,which I can't, I cannot.
I hate it so much because Iwant to be omnipresent.
I want to like just seeeverything and like give my own
own interpretation, but all thewriting for this company is
(25:13):
first person.
So, yeah, it kills me.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Sorry about that, but hey, at least you're making
money.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I know I can't complain because I'm making
money.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So the scripts that you have written for your books?
Have you sold the film rightsto them?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have, I wish okay um, it's, we're currently like,
we're currently in.
That was, that was the otherthing too.
Okay, so I have the script.
So, like now, what do I do?
Like, uh, like, I have a ton offriends who are in the industry
but they're all like, um,they're, they're videographers
and location scouts and makeupartists, like I don't know any,
like people with the money, youknow, and so I was kind of
(25:57):
floundering for a while and thenI ended up, um, talking to
somebody who's actually in likethe festival industry and the
competition, like they've donethe competition thing and they
kind of knew more as to, like,what I needed to do and what I
should do.
And so now we're kind of at thestage where I'm I'm entering
(26:19):
competitions, I'm enteringfestivals, I'm trying to network
with people, you know,shamelessly throwing my script
at them and saying, hey, justtake a look, like you'll love it
.
Here's my card.
So yeah.
I mean it's garnered someinterest with like festivals but
like no money yet, yeah, it's avery pushy industry.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You've got to just go out there and have such
confidence the whole time.
Yeah, you know, yes, especiallycoming from a person, it's hard
for, like a creative, creativebecause you exactly, yeah, you
try to.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You tend to hide behind your computer.
You know, you're not, you know,and then you're like here, take
, take my word, but don't talkto me.
So, yeah, I and I'm, I'm my ownworst enemy when it comes to
advocating.
So it's, it's so hard yeah,that's.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's the dichotomy between, like you know,
narrative, traditional uh novelwriters and film writers.
They're two completelydifferent people.
We'll drive our little BuickLeSabres and barely make it to
some place with their picnicbasket and peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches.
They'll be in their Camarosscreaming loud, talking on two
(27:24):
cell phones.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I'm important.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I have all the mocha lattes.
Yeah, no, it's totally true.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well, hey, it's impressive that you're willing
to step outside your comfortzone and pursue all avenues of
the creative field.
There's a lot of people thatare just pleasant to settle.
And anything to get yourstories heard and seen.
It's worth the risk and I'mglad to see people like you
doing that.
So let's talk about your firstpublished work that people can
(27:57):
read today.
Yeah, okay, go ahead, take itaway.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I'm going.
Okay.
So we, you want me to talk, sowe I first person.
I've written a series calledLegends of the Veil.
It's going to be a four-partseries.
We have the first two books outalready.
The first book is called Childof Dawn and it's kind of like my
(28:26):
testament and my love messageto creatives like Tolkien and CS
Lewis.
And it's set in this worldthat's kind of parallel to ours,
it coexists with ours and youcan kind of cross back and forth
between the human world and theveil.
And in this fictional worldit's ruled in part by vampires
(28:51):
and in part by elves who havebeen warring with each other for
a millennium.
No one knows how the warstarted.
Everybody just knows thatthey're supposed to hate the
other creature that iscoexisting with them.
And the first book kind of setsup like the salvation of the
(29:11):
veil.
They're on the precipice oftotal destruction, like the war
is just killing their world.
And then there's a prophecythat if the prophecy is
fulfilled, you know, the veilwill be saved.
If the prophecy is not, thenthey will just cease to exist.
Spoiler alert the veil is saved.
(29:33):
And then we continue on to thesecond book, which kind of deals
with the situation.
What do you do when you've beenat war with someone for your
entire life, your entireexistence and now you are at
peace?
How do you function in thatkind of existence and the
problems that sometimes thatbrings up?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay, Okay, so, uh, how long have you been kind of
like uh fermenting this idea forthis fantasy story?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So it started with, uh, like in COVID, towards the
end of COVID, um, I was homewith my two kids.
We were all really bored.
We had had it with thehomeschooling and the not going
anywhere, and I was reading thema really beautiful version of
Beauty and the Beast illustrated, and when I was done they went
(30:24):
off and did their own thing.
I don't think it impacted themthe way it did me, but they
don't like to read.
But I kind of was struck withthe idea what if beauty still
loved the beast and he hadn'tchanged like?
What if he didn't become likethe hot prince or whatever?
(30:46):
Um, and so, from, from and fromthat I didn't even really think
about it as far as likecreating a story from it.
Um, but then from that I waslike, all right, well, if I were
to do something with this, Ihadn't, I hadn't written in a
couple of years, and, and so Iwas like, if I do something with
this, okay, what does that looklike?
Um, I can't use the beastbecause Disney would probably
(31:09):
come after me for copyrightinfringement and you know, even
though they didn't come up withthe original idea, but they
still would try to like sue me,um, you know and in black suits
and Mickey Mouse ears would showup.
Exactly, and I'm like I don'thave the money to fight disney,
(31:29):
so let me come up with.
Let me come up with likeanother creature, um, and I've,
I've, I've always loved vampirelore, not just dracula, but like
even the stories that you know,stoker read to come up with the
idea for Dracula, okay.
And so I was like, okay, well,it's going to have to be a
vampire, right, but I didn'twant to have a vampire, that was
(31:52):
just.
I didn't want like the EdwardCullen version, right, and I
didn't want like this total likeevil being.
You know, there's kind of liketwo ends of the vampire spectrum
and I didn't want like thistotal like evil being.
Um, you know, there's kind oflike a like two ends of the
vampire spectrum and I didn'tlike either one of them.
And so I kind of created thischaracter.
Who he?
Yes, he's a monster, but he's amonster because that's what his
(32:16):
label is, okay, um, he's, he's.
He's come from an existencewhere, um, he's watched the
people he loved suffer justsimply because they loved one
another.
He's been raised to have a chipon his shoulder again because
that's his existence.
That's all he's really known.
(32:37):
But really, he has a soul andhe has a heart.
He just needs somebody to kindof bring it out of him.
And so that became Daggrun,who's my main character.
And then from there it was justlike, okay, so he needs to have
kind of like a counterpart.
Who's his counterpart going tobe?
(32:57):
And so I created this elf humanwho has kind of like the same
kind of chip on her shoulderbecause she's grown up in the
real world, the human world,okay, but she has magical
abilities people consider awitch simply because they don't
(33:21):
understand her.
Right, a witch, um, simplybecause they don't understand
her Um.
And that's kind of a messagethat I continue to work with
throughout the whole series is,just because somebody gives you
a label doesn't mean you have tolive up to it.
You know, kind of, find yourown identity and your own place
in the world, um, and what youcan bring to to the world and
the existence you have, um, byjust you being yourself and not
(33:45):
being what somebody has said youshould be Um.
And so, yeah, it's just beenlike this evolutionary process
of like whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Let me ask the important questions Do your
vampires die in direct sunlight?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
No, they do not they don't so that's where they don't
, and they don't now.
They don't glow, okay.
They're not sparkly, okay, good, they need blood in order to
function, but they're notnecessarily like lurking in
alleyways, okay.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Living in caves.
I tried In caves, no caves,tried in caves.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
No, caves, they live.
They live in, like they live indarker places, you know, like
gloomy but not um, yeah, and Ithe the thing that I really
liked doing in the first booktheir, their nemesis, this is
are um, elves, okay, and elvesare, you know, I mean you look
at like perfect example is lordof the rings, where you, or at
(34:47):
least in the movies, where youknow they're all perfect skin,
long, flowing hair, perfectclothes, pompous, refined,
sophisticated, um, generallycome off as the good guys, like
if you kind of watch the moviesat surface level, but then you,
you know that like, like theythey had, like if you read the
(35:07):
books, like there's a lot ofstruggle, that eternal struggle
that goes along in questioningand you know how Elrond fears
for Arwen's life and you know,like all the things.
And so, um, with the elves, youknow, they they kind of tend to
be like the light character, thegood guys, whatever, and in in
the veil, um, they're verymorally gray, okay, um, even
(35:28):
though their clothes are lightand airy and they live in a
place where there's moresunlight and things are green
and, um, their kingdom is on thewater.
Um, they kind of tend to be thevillain more often than the
vampires do, which wasintentional because I kind of
wanted to talk, you know, likeyou can look at somebody or
(35:49):
something and think that it'sevil or wrong, but that's based
on what you've been told and youknow.
Then you have, like, the heroor the good guy.
But why is that person the heroor the good guy?
But why is?
Why is that person the hero orthe good guy, is it, you know?
and so, um, yeah, there's a lotof commentary yeah I'm not, I
(36:11):
don't try to be political and Idon't try to have like like well
, you base off of what you know,kind of thing exactly, and the
and the whole thing started, youknow, again at the end end of
COVID we were tail end of, likeBlack Lives Matter and the
hashtag Me Too and all thethings, and I had watched a lot
of that through the eyes of mychildren who didn't understand,
(36:34):
except for the fact that therewas just violence all around
them.
The target that we go to gotvandalized, and I had to explain
that to my kids.
You know why can't we go to gotvandalized, um, and I had to
explain that to my kids.
You know why can't we go toschool?
You know all these things, andso you know it's kind of yes,
it's a fantasy and none of it'sreal, um, but there's a lot of
(36:56):
realness in the story yeah, Ithink that's where most
fictional stories come from,anyway.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So exactly, um, yeah okay, another important question
does your vampire protagonist,does he?
Is he like a thousand years oldand date a 16 year old girl?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
he's not a thousand okay he's only 984 and yeah,
he's 984.
No, he's, he.
He's a younger vampire.
He's like in his like three,four hundred.
Okay, he does have a greatgrandfather that plays a pivotal
role throughout the novels.
(37:35):
He actually raised him and he'smuch older.
Okay, but he also does not datea 16 year old.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, that's good, that's good.
I think that was the part oftwilight that bothered me the
most.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's like wait how old are these two right, and
then he's like, you know Isparkle.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
This is the skin of a killer.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It's like what I know right, oh, so bad, so bad awful
.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
so, uh, before kovid, when you were coming up with
the ideas for this and you hadwritten other books that were
predominantly historical fiction, I guess you could say yeah.
Did you see yourself onlywriting that, or were you always
open to the idea for fantasy?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So, like I mentioned before, if you challenge me to
do it, I probably will.
Okay, that is how these bookscame about.
I was very much historicalfiction.
I don't know.
I think the decision to writehistorical fiction came from the
fact that when I started reallywriting full-length novels,
(38:41):
that's what I was reading.
Right, I was reading thehistorical fiction.
Usually it was set like in the1800s, somewhere, um, whatever,
and so, logically, I should justwrite my own.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Um, and then I have.
I have a really good friend who, um, never thought he'd ever be
mentioned, ever in any sort ofinterview whatsoever, and now
he's like the subject of likeevery interview.
He comes up, because he came tome one day and he's like, he's
like Leslie, you've got to writethis thing off, like have you
ever thought of writing sciencefiction or fantasy, like you
(39:17):
should just try it.
And I was like, all right, bringit on, let's see what I can do.
Yeah, and I was like, all right, bring it on, let's see what I
can do.
Yeah, um, and I, and I couldn'tsci-fi.
For me again it's science anduh, no, that's no, it's more
like I don't think I could dolike the technical aspect, right
of um, you know the, the jargon, and I, I don't even really
(39:38):
understand the concept of lightspeed because it's like
completely beyond me.
So it, it was kind of like Ican't do sci-fi but I could
totally do fantasy.
Um, and so, like little did heknow that there'd be not one,
not two, but four books at least?
That, you know, were based onhis random comment.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You should give him a cut of the pie, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Uh, what is your writing?
What is your writing process?
Like you're actively working onthe next book, right?
Yeah, yeah so every day kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I try.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I really try Again.
I'm the mom of a 13 and10-year-old, and the older they
get, the more all-consuming theyget.
I mean, you know, 13 and 10year olds, and the older they
get, the more all consuming theyget.
I mean, you know, um, and so,like this, last weekend my
daughter had a cheer competitionin LA and so I was, I tried,
like I tried as much as I could.
(40:34):
I think I got like, over thecourse of three days, I wrote
like half a chapter, cause it'sjust, you know, you can't, you
first and um tried to write, youknow, in the gymnasium where
this competition was, in thisuncomfortable seat, and I was
there for like eight hours and Igot like two paragraphs.
(40:54):
You know, it's just that, that's, that's just life, um, but on a
good day, on a good day, Icould get through a chapter,
maybe.
Um, my goal I used, I used tobe really hard on myself if I
didn't achieve like a chapter aday.
I was getting it done.
Now it's a chapter a week, okay, and you know, and if I get
(41:17):
more done, that's fantastic.
But I just I have to be easy onmyself, because I realized that
life isn't what it was when youknow I was, yeah, my kids were
like toddlers and you could putthem in front of and also tv, or
give them a you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know, overdo your creative process and wins of
one of yourself exactly yes,it's wild that you can write a
chapter and a half
Speaker 2 (41:38):
no, and and it's true , because pasting is huge,
because I know there's a lot ofcrap that I've written, um,
that's not published, uh, thatyou know, it was just like I was
trying to like I I trying tolike vomit words on, you know,
on the paper, because I justfelt like I had to, like, I was
obligated to, and that's, that'snot a reality.
(42:00):
I mean, I guess, if you're anews reporter and you have a
deadline, you know you need, youknow, but even then you want to
put out your best stuff, right,because it's your calling card.
You know, but even then youwant to put out your best stuff,
right, um, cause it's yourcalling card.
You know it's how peopleidentify you and so if you're
putting out crap, then you knowhe's going to want to read it so
um, yeah, and so like, as faras, like I don't know, like the
(42:21):
process of writing a book, Istart with an idea, um, I used
to outline and I don't anymore.
I have a point a and a point B,um, the beginning and the end,
and I know what I want to havehappen.
Um, but, like, even right nowI'm writing.
So I'm writing the third bookright now and this, there's a
(42:42):
battle that takes place andoriginally the battle was only
going to be like one chapter,but it just kind of keeps
expanding, you know, and like Ican't, like I'm like, oh, this
happens, this should happen, oh,this needs to happen, and this
needs to, this needs to happenwith this person.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
And so now we're at like four chapters, exactly Like
it's just like.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I mean like this even this morning I was, I was
thinking that it was going tokind of come to an end and then
I'm like, well, no, this personneeds to do that to this person
and that's going to be like awhole nother chapter.
So you know, and so you justhave to have the patience.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, that leads me to my next question, because you
know, building a giant story,hundreds of pages.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Right, yeah, especially when you kind of just
like let the creative godsguide you to wherever you're
going At of, just like, let thecreative gods guide you to
wherever you're going at somepoint, yeah, you're going to
contradict a previous part ofthe book that you've written.
You know how, yeah, howdifficult is that.
Uh, you know to violate yourown rules and then remake the
rules and so on and so forth,like especially now that you
(43:44):
have multiple books.
Have you ever found yourself ina hole with the second book or
the third book that you'rewriting?
Right now that you've, youcan't go back and unpublish the
first book.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Exactly, um, not, not that.
I know of.
But yeah, like not.
I mean nobody's come to me andbeen like there's an error in
continuity, right, exactly, um,which I'm I'm very grateful for.
I do keep a copy of like bothbooks next to me when I'm
writing, like they go everywherewith me.
(44:14):
Because then I'm like, okay, Idon't remember, like, talking
about the Vampire's Age, Icouldn't remember there's a part
in the second book where, like,his exact age is mentioned and
I couldn't remember what I hadput, but I knew that I had put
it.
So I was like, okay, I've gotto find this because I have to
make sure that it's cohesivewith, um, the rest of like the
(44:37):
series and in this book, thethird one, um, we do a time jump
, uh, and so it it.
The first two are very linear,like one happens after the other
, and then this one, we jump 18years, oh, okay, and so it's
like I have to now not only beconsistent with, like what's
(44:58):
happened, but then also makesure that there's no plot holes
that could have you know,something that happened like
within that 18 years that I orlike even you know.
Like I mean, yes, they'revampires and elves, but yes,
they do age.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So like staying, you know, consistent and like making
sure that, like I don't screwsomething up because I just, you
know, flash forward, you know,two decades have you found
yourself having to kill yourdarlings a little bit with, like
, oh, this is a really coolthing I want to do, but I've
made it already up to this pointwhere it's just not possible
and you know, so you just haveto scrap it.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Okay, that's got to suck, yep yep, yeah, no, it does
and also like the fact, like I,I mean, this is a reality.
It's reality in the sense thatthey live in a violent
environment.
People are going to have to dieand I don't like killing my
(45:57):
characters because it justwrecks me, because they're my
babies, but you have to do itfor realism and so there's
actually I'm going to have to.
This chapter that I'm workingon is such a chapter where a
major character is going to dieand it sucks, but I know it has
to happen.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Put on a walk to remember and play some Inyo in
the background.
Exactly Drink some red wine Getthe bunny slippers.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yep, make myself, yep .
I gotta get in the mindset ofjust total misery and depression
.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Instead of like George RR Martin.
It's like and done.
Yep, he's like, who am Ikilling now?
And he throws like a dart at aboard.
It's like Jon Snow, ExactlyAgain.
Yeah, why not?
We'll bring him back nextchapter.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Right, exactly, chapter Right.
Well, uh, last question I have,and I'll I'll surrender the
floor to my co-hosts here.
Um, so, what would you say yourtarget audience is for your,
your series now?
Um, you know, age group andeverything.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Age group?
Okay, so this is a very trickyquestion because I try to write
across the board.
I try to not gear specificallytoward youth or like older
people.
I have teenagers that have readmy stuff and I have, like,
(47:27):
senior citizens that have readmy stuff.
So, um, my, my target audience,when somebody actually like,
did the statistics or whatever,for me, um, is, uh, 18 to 34.
That's like a parent, theapparent sweet spot, um, but
again it's I.
(47:47):
I write with the mindset thatif my 13-year-old daughter
picked up my book and read it,she would be fine.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
But then if my slightly more into romance
friend, who's in her late 50s,picked it up, she would also be
entertained.
Okay so if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, like I was reading empire the vampire, for
instance, and uh yeah.
I, uh, I was thinking aboutrecommending it to my daughter
and then it got to.
Like some of the, you know the-smut the sweaty scenes.
I guess you could say and I waslike, nah, it'd be weird for me
to do this.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
So, hey, you should read this.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
It's like okay, exactly so right.
Like what's wrong with you?
Yeah, I mean, there's, there'sromance, there's romance in
these books, but it's it's likesomething that you would see,
like in a pg-13 movie, like ifyou went, you know, like there's
no, exactly.
Like I'm just, you know, and I,I sometimes I want to go
farther, like I'm like the sceneshould go farther, but I'm just
(48:53):
like no, I can't do thatbecause my, the audience that I
have, that I've grown, isn'tthat that they would?
They would burn the book, youknow and so I want to.
I want to, you know, I want torespect my audience.
You know which is why I havethis ghostwriting job?
Speaker 1 (49:08):
because yeah, yeah, then you can release the X rated
versions, exactly, okay, well,uh, do you guys have any
questions for her?
Speaker 4 (49:20):
The one question I was kind of wondering is, with
your veil series, if you weregoing to make it into like an
onscreen kind of thing, wouldyou prefer to do more of a TV
show, to flesh it out more, orwould you prefer movies to kind
of focus on the main story?
Speaker 2 (49:34):
whoever has more money question yes, yes, but
also yes, um.
So I I actually recently gotasked this question, um by
somebody and I was like, oh, um,my, I have a vision of what I
would want to see on the screen,of course, because I'm the
(49:56):
writer.
So if, if, like, netflix cameto me and said you know, we want
to, we want to do it, this iswhat our, our, our, you know,
our thought is for it and Iliked it, then Netflix would be
fine.
If a production company, youknow, whoever you know line
(50:19):
cinemas or whatever, came to meand said the same thing and I
thought they could do it betterthan you know, I would say sure,
right.
My whole thing with, especiallylike, the fantasy genre is I've
seen a lot of really goodfantasy and I've seen a lot of
really bad fantasy, right, yep.
(50:41):
Netflix buys it all Right,exactly, and I'm just like hi,
it's like you could do so muchbetter Buy my book, but we're
not going to.
I know, I know and it's horribleand so like I don't want, I
don't want like the cheese ballkind of like every you can tell
everything is green screen andyou filmed it all in a studio
(51:04):
and it's all.
I mean, it's all CGI and crapLike um, I can't stand that.
I know it has a place and Iappreciate it and I respect it,
but if that's what you're goingto go with, then I'd rather just
never sell my script becauseyou know, like I, just you know
I have like I, I, I know that Ican't have total creative
(51:25):
control, but I want to have alittle bit because I don't.
It's my baby, you know, and youdon't want to like insult your
own work by giving it tosomebody who's not going to
create the vision.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Yeah, you have a quality in mind for your stuff
that you want to keep, so that'sunderstandable.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You're a better person than me.
I would sell out in a heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Hey, we're still us out in a heartbeat you want to
buy a podcast, by the way, soand there's like there's good
examples of writers who wrotesomething and got to be in the
movie, yeah, and got mad, butthen they were like, no, this
actually worked out better thanwhat I wrote.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Well, yeah, so exactly I listened to a really
interesting question that aprolific author was asked and he
was older in his age and theperson said do you think authors
lose their focus the older theyget?
And his answer was really smart.
He's like no, I think they justget clouded with money, you
(52:20):
know, and I think that that's agood point, Like the person who
writes the cutting edge novelthat you know know goes against
the grain of society and reallycatches people's attention and
stuff like that.
Then all of a sudden, you knowthey want a sequel.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
They're flooded with money and it's like the next one
resurrect the characters andall this other stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
So, yeah, I would be that author though as long as
you're honest, that's all thatmatters money well, I love
comics and stuff, but nocharacter ever stays dead in the
comics.
No, it's true, it's true.
Come back somehow.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I want to go back a little bit to, I guess, writing
in high school and all that.
I was like all these Englishteachers you've had.
You said one of them.
You were a huge fan of what waslike the one paper you wrote
that they just tore apart andyou were like am I going to be a
writer?
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Oh gosh, so yeah, and what was their name?
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Yeah, so we can find them and beat them up.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Okay, I mean, I can, honestly, I can totally.
His name was Greg Stobie.
We're still friends.
Google him.
Greg Stobie was, was my Englishteacher and my drama teacher
and he, um, he knew that I loved, I loved writing, and so, and,
and I loved the classics andeverything, and so, uh, I, I
(53:44):
turned in a paper once on, uh,great expectations, which which,
ironically, I did my thesis ondickens.
So, um, yeah, so I, when Iturned in this crap paper
because I had procrastinated andhadn't done it until the night
before, um, he, he knew that hehad the right to shred me, um,
(54:06):
because I was subpar in what hehad come to expect of me.
Okay, and we had thatrelationship where it was, you
know, like you want me to readbecause I would bring him
anything I wrote, right, and hewould, like he would go through
it with me and you know you needto do this or you should do
this or whatever.
(54:26):
But, yeah, great expectations.
I will never forget.
Forget that, uh.
I still have the paper somewhere.
Um, I kept it as kind of like areminder that you know you
don't, you don't change yourself, or yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
So it was a productive kick in the butt.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
It was no, it was productive and he and he knew he
had like he, he knew he had theright to do it and I mean like,
and I respected him for thatand to this day we're still
friends and he's I mean I,literally I, I owe him my life
because I, I would not havecontinued to do anything,
probably if I hadn't had him askind of like a mentor.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, Well, show him some of your paychecks and be
like what do you think about menow?
Speaker 3 (55:13):
I wonder how many almost writers there have been,
because of English teachers,because of English teachers.
Like this sucks.
You suck Because, like everypaper I wrote, it would be like
a, B.
It might be the best I ever did.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Hell.
She could have been anastronaut if she had a good
science teacher.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yeah, talking to you from the International Space
Station.
The best paper though I everwrote and I didn't even write it
, I dictated it In college, myfreshman year they're like all
right, you can team up and writea paper, it has to be like 15
pages, whatever the hell youwant.
And me and my roommate you knowwe're sitting there like smoke,
a cigarette, have a beer andwe're like 18.
(55:51):
And I was like, all right, Igot it.
I was like start typing and theentire paper was about giving
the business.
Okay, it was the history ofgiving the business to somebody,
all because of something thathappened on Monday Night, 80s,
and we got a 95 and she's likethis is the best paper I've
gotten in three years.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
A 95.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Which just boggles my mind.
Sometimes you can write aboutthe most random thing and be an
award winning somebody, and thenyou spend countless hours and
years slaving over yourmasterpiece and nobody cares.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Next paper went down like an asteroid crashing into
the moon.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Well, hey, it was really great talking to you.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
I would like to keep in touch.
I'm going to recommend yourbooks to my daughter, absolutely
.
If she grabs onto them, I'lleven give them a read.
I too struggle with the forcedyou know methods of making me do
things like reading.
Do you have audio books?
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Is that a thing?
So I think I don't think thisis like secret, okay, but we're
actually yeah, whoever.
The audio books are actually awork in process as of this week
for the first two books.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Okay, so that's exciting and that actually like
came about.
So my Toby, my English teacherhe is now he's blind okay um now
, and so he's he can't read mystuff and so and he was when I
had you know um, when I hadfound that out, I was like, well
, I need to like come up with away for you to be able to like
(57:44):
read my things and likeaudiobook.
We got to do it like now it'sjust a sign I need to make it
possible.
So, yeah, so, the audio book,um, I talked to the people this
last week and it's going to belike a month long process and
then we should have somethinglike within the next month or so
.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Honestly, that went.
That would go by a lot fasterthan I thought, it would you
know Right?
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Right, yeah, yeah.
I was like really Okay, ofcourse they might've just been
pulling my leg and it's going totake months, so who knows?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
We're going to get right on it, wink.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Exactly, I will give it a listen and I'll count it as
reading and uh, but my, mydaughter will do it.
The?
Uh actually read the books.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Good for her.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Thanks so much for dealing with us and our
ramblings.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Oh no, it's a privilege.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
I'm excited to see you and when you get famous and
get your Netflix deals and stufflike that, please don't forget
about us.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Absolutely not Okay.
You'll have to be at thepremiere.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
You got it All right.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
All right.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Nice talking to you no-transcript.
Hey, welcome to Entertain this.
A podcast about movies, tvshows and video games and books,
books.
A special today with a specialguest, leslie Ann Lee.
Miss Lee, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm good thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Thanks for joining us .
So, reading through your bio,you said you've been writing
since you could walk.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Pretty much.
Alright and uh, you have whatsix books published uh six
published, and then we'recurrently working on uh the
seventh okay, uh, that's theveil series, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
yes okay yes, the legends of the veil, yep and, uh
, you know, I have lots ofquestions about what your I
guess shtick would be the betterterm to how you got to I guess
more, uh, fantasy fiction andwhen you seem to have started
out in, um, I guess, historicalfiction, is that what you would
call it?
Yeah, okay, yeah yeah butbefore we get into all the the
(01:21):
good stuff, I kind of want toknow your journey as to how you
got to where you're at.
So so you started writing whenyou were young.
Yeah, did you win contests andstuff like that?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so reading and writing has been a part of my
life for forever.
First memories I have are of mymom reading to me Charlotte's
Web and the Lion, the Witch andthe Wardrobe, to be specific.
And then from there I wanted tocreate my own stories, do my
own thing, and so it was.
I was in the second grade and,uh, our school had a writing
(01:54):
competition and I took homesecond place, which was, uh, the
fuel for me to go back and doit again in third grade.
And uh, cause I wanted firstand I still got second, I got
second two years in a row and uh, so from then on it was almost
kind of like a competition withmyself.
(02:14):
I never got that stupid firstplace ribbon and it made me mad,
and so I've just been kind ofwriting ever since, always
trying to better myself and topmyself.
Never won first place for mycreative writing, but I did take
home a couple of first placesfor my poetry, so I guess in the
(02:36):
end I did kind of like come outon top.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Who was that first?
Place guy, yeah, I was about toask Was it the same person both
times?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, it was a different person every single
time.
Oh, I was about to ask was itthe same person both times?
I know it's a different personevery single time.
They probably gave the schoolmore money or something.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
They're teachers on the board.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Suddenly there's a library named after his dad.
It's like what Yep?
I never entered any writingcompetition.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You did a little bit.
I guess you would call thatshort work as a kid kind of
learning how to.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh, yeah, very short.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And poetry I mean, and you said, you did pretty
well with poetry.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, apparently.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I dabble in writing, but poetry Poetry made me want
to rip my hair out.
You have to follow an iambicpentameter.
Do you have a specific style ofpoetry that you, you kind of
cater to?
Do you actually make your wordsrhyme?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
you know, in the beginning, when I was, I think,
I got into poetry because inhigh school, um and we're
talking like freshman, sophomoreyear I would be sitting in
biology class.
I hate, I hate science.
Nothing against it, I thinkit's fantastic, I just don't
like learning it.
And so I would have my, myfive-star notebook and I would
(03:56):
never take biology notes.
I barely graduated this is atrue story because I didn't pay
attention in science, but Iwould be.
I wanted to write, and so youonly had like 45 minutes to come
up with something you know.
And so I would do poetrybecause it was much easier than
doing, like you know, a full onnovel or something.
And so in the in the beginningit was you know, four lines in a
(04:20):
stanza and the first and thirdline, you know lines would rhyme
.
Lines in a stanza and the firstand third line, you know, lines
would rhyme.
And it was all because I was anemotional teenager.
It was all like tragic love andridiculous stupid staff, Like
you know.
And then, as I grew older and Igot into college, again the same
thing.
I never wanted to pay attention, unless it was my literature
(04:40):
English class.
I was writing the poetry and Istarted to do a lot more free
verse.
Okay, and just kind of likemessing around with things.
I don't like rules, I'm reallystubborn, and so to like be told
that like this line had torhyme with this line.
You know it made me mad, yeah,so you know.
(05:01):
I, just so I yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
To be fair, all poets are pretty free spirited to
begin with.
So, establishing rules seemskind of contradictory.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It's kind of like dead poet society.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So who's your favorite poet?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Exactly, yes, my favorite poet, oh geez, I like,
like the, a lot of the.
I guess the old school in thesense of like Yates or
Woodsworth, I think Coolridge,is absolutely fascinating, just
(05:35):
the tangents and the storiesthat he would create.
He always seemed to almost belike on a trip, which was
amazing, because then you haveto go back and interpret things.
But I do love, like MayaAngelou, I love a lot of her
stuff and Langston Hughes.
So it's just, it's kind of likethe wide gambit, because I
(05:57):
think all poets have so much tooffer.
They have, they have somethingthat they bring to the table to
offer.
They have, they have somethingthat they bring to the table.
Um, and so you kind of justhave to learn to appreciate
everything and then kind of comeup with your own interpretation
.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Do you feel that poets um some of the best poets,
are also some of the best prosewriters, and vice versa, or do
you feel like that?
Like Dickinson, I don't thinkshe ever wrote um any any?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, emily, oh, she's so good.
Yeah, no, I think I think itjust is kind of what what you
want to do.
I definitely think that formyself, writing prose has helped
write the poetry, especiallywhen it comes to just word
knowledge and, um, you know,like the dictionary that I carry
around in my brain, um, and sothat, like that, that's been
(06:47):
helpful in writing poetrybecause you have a smaller
amount of space to create a kindof like a bigger image for the
reader and um, but, but then Imean there's, there's, there are
people that have never writtena story in their life and
they're fantastic poets.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So it just depends on the artist, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, Dickinson's definitely one of those examples
Also, you know, I actually wentto her house one time and was
peeking through the floorboardsto see if she stuffed any of
those little notes and stuff.
She would write poetry just toburn it, kind of stuff.
It's just weird peopleobviously doing it for
themselves, not for an audienceExactly, and I, I guess.
I get.
I get, why that works Um yeahfor sure, but uh so, uh like,
(07:33):
for instance uh, tom, here's abig aficionado for Tolkien, who
also is, is a huge you, I guessyou could say poet.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, I think he's just kind of one of those
outlier people where it's therewas so much stuff that he could
do so well, yeah, that is justlike.
What category do you put him in?
It's like he's, he just has hisown little thing.
It's like and that's why the hewas like oh, it's Tolkien esque
.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Linguistic stuff.
Have you ever tried to developyour own language and stuff for
any?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
stories.
No, I cheat.
So there's a lot of in thefantasy stuff that I've done.
There's a lot of old languagelike Gaelic or old Germanic
words that I've just doneresearch on.
I could not.
I true, true story I failedlinguistics three times.
(08:28):
I couldn't.
I couldn't wrap my.
I had to take it for my degree,yeah, so I had to pass, but I
could not because it's thescientific approach to language
which we all know.
I don't like science, so itjust it killed me, um, and I
just never was able to kind oflike understand it and so, yeah,
(08:49):
so when I come up with words,they're just, they're usually
already in existence.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's fair, yeah I would be definitely too lazy to
try and figure something likethat out too.
So right, okay.
So so you're in college, you'reyou, you're succeeding at the
literary craft, but strugglingthrough some of the more core
classes and stuff that they makeyou take, yeah, I can
definitely relate to.
I appreciate that when youfinally were getting through
(09:20):
what was the moment, you feltlike you could sit down and
write a novel.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I think.
Well, I mean, like I did.
I wrote my first book in mysenior year of high school.
Oh wow, and it didn't.
It didn't, it doesn't existanymore.
It was through a publishingcompany that like went like
belly up and then my stuff justdisappeared.
But I mean my first officialbook, which a lot of people that
(09:46):
have kind of known me sincehigh school days, um, that's
their favorite, which I findreally weird because it was.
I wrote it when I was like 17,18 years old and so like I've
just I've grown so much more asa writer since then.
But, um, a lot of people sayit's their favorite, so whatever
.
Um then, but um, a lot ofpeople say it's their favorite,
(10:09):
so whatever.
Um, I think when I finallystarted kind of realizing that I
had the time and this was mymoment and this is what I wanted
to do, um was towards the endof college.
I had planned on being ateacher, an English teacher.
That was kind of just like likewhat am I going to do with with
like this ability?
Like there's nothing else to do.
(10:31):
You know, I might as well justgo and teach English.
Loved my English teacher inhigh school, wanted to be just
like him when I grew up and so.
But then I, the closer I got tograduation, the more I was like,
okay, I love kids, but teaching, teaching just didn't sound fun
(10:52):
to me.
It didn't sound like you knewthat.
I mean, you went through thewhole high school, college
experience.
You know you're going to getyelled at, you know you're going
to have to grade horriblepapers, and I kind of started to
feel like I was going to end uphating the thing that I love if
I went into that profession.
So I asked my then boyfriend atthe time um, we were planning
(11:13):
on getting married and so it waskind of like I need to like you
know, like ask him if this iscool.
Like, are you okay with me justbeing a writer by profession?
What, whatever that means, withme just being a writer by
profession, whatever that means,I'm not going to make as much
and I'm probably going to be athome a lot more, but this is
what I want to do, are you okaywith it?
(11:33):
And the smart man said, yeah,that's fine.
So, yeah, cool.
We can stay together After hegot up and wiped the blood from
his head, right, exactly,seriously, I remember being so
nervous, asking, because I waslike, okay, I don't know what's
going to happen if he says no,like go to school and be a
teacher.
So, yeah, I just I've done alot of kind of like part-time
(11:58):
work in order to keep myselfgoing.
I don't like to be idle, I liketo stay busy, even if I'm not
writing, and so that I kind ofjust do that.
But the luxury with that isthat I can then always be
writing, um, whether it's, youknow, uh, for other people or
whether it's for myself.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So, but all your published work is essentially
for yourself, correct?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
This is true.
Yes, all my published work isfor myself.
I've done a lot of um, likecurrently I'm working for uh, um
, I don't even know what to callthem.
They do like video shorts, um,like theory, like serial,
serialized stories, um, in videoform, but then they take, take.
(12:44):
They take those stories andthey want to convert them into
novel form okay, and so I'mworking for them doing that.
I take, like, the screenplayand I convert it into a novel,
okay, um, and that pays likereally well, which is really
nice, because then I can takethat money and put it towards
the stuff that I want to put outthere that has my name on it.
Yeah, they essentially do that.
That work put out there thathas my name on it.
(13:05):
They essentially do that workas a ghostwriter.
Nobody knows it's me writing it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
What can you tell us?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Anything good, anything we know.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean it's very well , it depends on what you like.
This is all in the romancefantasy.
Well, it depends on what youlike.
This is all in the romancefantasy.
Werewolf falls in love with avampire genre.
Okay so if you like that kindof thing, then yeah, it's
(13:38):
totally for you.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Mitch is definitely more in that category, right up
there.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I don't read so much the romance part, but I love
vampire and werewolf kind ofstories and stuff like that he's
read all the Anne Rice andstuff.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
haven't you.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Well, yeah, I have read those.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So good.
Anne Rice is amazing.
I got to see her house.
I've never seen Dickinson, butI did get to see Anne Rice's and
that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Cool.
Was this before or after shedied?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Cool.
Was this before or after shedied she was already dead, which
made it kind of sad.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
But I was like I had to pay, you know, honor to her
Pay respects.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yep, okay.
So actually, while we'retalking about you kind of
ghostwriting, you know I havedone some research and I have
talked to some friends who arealso, you know, writing and
whatnot, and then the cutoff isjust like you don't make any
money or you make a ton of moneyand um, you know, so people who
are trying to find that middleground, like you are how do you
(14:34):
market yourself to doghostwriting, to, uh, you know,
do any form of writing, uh, likenarrative or prose or whatever
that that can kind?
of get you out there.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Um it's, it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Um.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I've.
I've kind of have found, likemy jobs, my niche, whatever,
through just networking, through, um, knowing, knowing people
who know, somebody who hassomething that's available.
Like this all came aboutbecause I'm part of a local
(15:13):
filmmaker group Okay, and one ofthe producers slash directors
is also part of the groupIronically comes from where
I'm'm from, which is in themiddle of California, like we're
not a big city or anything, butbecause we were part of the
same group and he saw that I wasworking on a project and he was
(15:35):
like, okay, cool, you're awriter, guess what we need?
Writers?
Yeah, so he like he connectedme with the right people and I
ended up with this job, which isjust amazing.
I had a job for years probablyeight, eight to ten where I was
(15:57):
working with students withlearning disabilities at the
local college, with disabilities, learning disabilities at the
local college, and I would helpthem write their essays because
they just they had a lot of likeprocessing, you know,
disabilities, that kind of thing, and so we would, we would work
together and you know how doyou form a paragraph, how do you
(16:18):
write the sentence, because youwant it to be their work, but
you also want it, you want themto learn and grow as much as any
other collegiate.
So and that came aboutliterally because they put an ad
on Craigslist.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Did you find yourself , as a teacher, doing that,
essentially as a teacher?
Like you said, you were afraidyou were going to hate the work.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, and it yeah, and I think this worked for me
because, like, I wasn'tnecessarily teaching, in a sense
I was showing Okay, and it wasvery one-on-one Okay and it was
situations where, you know, thestudents or, in some situations,
(17:00):
the parents.
I had a lot of freshman parentscome to me and like find me,
and you know we would beconnected and it would be
something that, like they wanted, like if they didn't have my
help, they wouldn't be writingan essay, yeah, so it was a very
kind of like one-on-onepartnership, which was a lot
better than being in front of alot of kids, like trying to
teach them Shakespeare and themnot getting it.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Right, I can see the pros and cons for both.
I mean it'd be tough to youknow, especially if somebody on
your level try.
And you know brass tacks, barebones.
Teach just basic.
You know narrative.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, and.
I think I mean for me, I, Ifeel, I feel like kind of like
the written word is is in manyways a dying art, Like it's,
it's um my kids.
I've really struggled with mychildren to, like you know, give
them an appreciation for, likethe classics, um, reading is so
(17:59):
important.
Well, no, mom, we can justwatch the movie.
Well, no, you can't like causethe movie sucks yeah.
Yeah, exactly, I mean, like youknow it's, it's yeah, and so
it's it's you.
I want to give them that likethat appreciation for like the
work that these authors have putin and the ability to use your
(18:19):
imagination.
When you open a book and youjust see words on a page,
imagination and, um, my, my, mydaughter I struggle more with
she's, she's very kind of likeblack and white and factual, and
this is just the way life isthat is my daughter 100.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and it's so, itso it kills me because I'm like
(18:45):
read this book, it's so goodand she's just like this is dumb
well um I who is sorry, I thinkwe got a little bit of a lag.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Uh, I've learned with my daughter.
I've learned with my she's likewe pushed Harry Potter.
We pushed it probably too hardand now she hates Harry Potter.
She doesn't want anything to dowith it.
Right, my son, we just let himwatch the first movie.
He's 8.
My daughter's 16.
My son's like that was a greatmovie, I want to see the next
(19:17):
one.
I was like, well, you got toread the books first.
We got them that way Because mydaughter I can't get her to
read Lord of the Rings, I can'tget her to watch the movies
Because I pushed it too hard.
And I've learned she's anotherfree spirit person.
She reads like all the.
She reads a lot of what I'mthinking is kind of more in
keeping with your genre thefantasy kind of YA books and
(19:40):
stuff.
She's read Shadow and.
Bone and stuff like that.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And one thing I've noticed a lot is like yeah, it
just depends going back with,like the, the ann rice stuff is
like.
A lot of times you can read abook and then you can watch the
movie and the movies.
I like the movie and I like thebook, but the book just has a
lot more in it than what you canexperience in a two-hour movie.
So it just it gives you a lotmore into the characters and the
story and everything.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So yeah, I mean, I mean, like I mean to your point
with with Anne Rice, and so I Iread interview with the vampire
years ago like the club, theclassic, the classic one.
And then I was kind of raised,I, my parents would never have
let me watch the Brad Pittversion of it ever.
(20:30):
But I was just like right,exactly Like I think I I don't,
I, yeah, no way.
Um, I'm a pastor's kid, sovampires are satanic and evil
and so, yeah, it was the wholething.
Um, and so, you know, that waswhat I was raised with and that
was kind of like, even though itwasn't necessarily in keeping
(20:50):
up with the book.
That was the visual that I had.
And then watching the seriesthat you know, there's like two
seasons or whatever of it, it's,it's, it's the same, but it's
so different.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's.
It's a perfect example of howyou take something from a book
and there can be completelydifferent interpretations of it
you know, and and approaches toit.
So yeah, I find thatfascinating.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
That was stuff that drove me insane in high school.
I hated every English class Iwas in and it would be like, oh,
read this and it's like what doyou think the author is trying
to convey?
That the curtains are blue andlike all this crap about the
room they're in.
I'm like he's a horribleinterior decorator.
What do you want me to tell you?
Like I don't know what you want.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, movies can be like that too.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, it's true, it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So have you written script work before.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, so before, yeah , I, so yes, so that's that's
the short answer.
Um, the short answer is yes, um.
The long answer is when I was,when I was doing kind of press
tours wasn't a press tour?
I was on a I was on a zoom callwith somebody in um in, uh,
(22:08):
atlanta, um, and I this thisperson had seen some of my stuff
and was like hey, do you wantto like chat about your work?
And I was like absolutely, andwe ended up not even really
talking about writing.
We ended up he's a.
This guy is like very into likeum, he's in the film world, but
then he's also into like healthand fitness, um, so we talked
about really almost everythingabout my writing, which was fine
(22:30):
.
But towards the end of thishour long conversation, the
writing came up and he made thecomment that the Veil books
would make really good moviesand.
I was like I never reallythought about that.
I've always been focused onjust making a novel.
He's like, no, no, you shouldtotally try it and make a
(22:52):
screenplay and and put it outthere and, okay, fine, challenge
accepted.
If you know me, you know thatanytime somebody like says, do
this or try it, I'm gonna do itright.
And so, um, I wrote ascreenplay for the first book in
the series.
It was like writing a foreignlanguage, it's it's so different
(23:12):
from you know, in a novel youjust expand and expand and
expand and you're using allthese words and these visuals
and with the screenplay you justcut it dry.
And you know, because you, youwant to leave things open for
interpretation, for you know,the director and the
cinematographer and whatnot, andso I, I actually had to hire an
editor who was fabulous, he wasout of Germany, of all places,
(23:38):
and he would just cut, like, myfirst draft was like 220 pages,
which is a little.
I mean that was just crap.
The screenplay was way too much, and now it's now as it stands,
it's 141.
And so which is still for somepeople too long.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
For a first movie.
I could see that yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, you know, like it's just like I don't know what
else to cut, like we had allthese conversations about like
you have to remove thesecharacters.
I'm like no, but they're mine.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, that's where you see characters get combined
and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Exactly, yeah, like how combined and stuff like that
.
Exactly yeah, that's why Icouldn't do it.
No, it was, it was awful it was, but but it had happened.
And so now, on top of likewriting novels, I'm writing
screenplays and that's kind oflike a parallel road that I'm
taking with not only promotingthe novels and getting the word
(24:28):
out about the novels, but thenalso like kind of like wandering
through the world of filmmakingand film festivals and film
competitions to see if, if andwhen there's a possibility of
you know, getting options plussomething writing.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
writing in present tense sucks.
I hate it so much, it's sotough to do, it's awful.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Well, and with the, with the, the ghost writing, I
have to write in first person,which I can't, I cannot.
I hate it so much because Iwant to be omnipresent.
I want to like just seeeverything and like give my own
own interpretation, but all thewriting for this company is
(25:13):
first person.
So, yeah, it kills me.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Sorry about that, but hey, at least you're making
money.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I know I can't complain because I'm making
money.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So the scripts that you have written for your books?
Have you sold the film rightsto them?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I have, I wish okay um, it's, we're currently like,
we're currently in.
That was, that was the otherthing too.
Okay, so I have the script.
So, like now, what do I do?
Like, uh, like, I have a ton offriends who are in the industry
but they're all like, um,they're, they're videographers
and location scouts and makeupartists, like I don't know any,
like people with the money, youknow, and so I was kind of
(25:57):
floundering for a while and thenI ended up, um, talking to
somebody who's actually in likethe festival industry and the
competition, like they've donethe competition thing and they
kind of knew more as to, like,what I needed to do and what I
should do.
And so now we're kind of at thestage where I'm I'm entering
(26:19):
competitions, I'm enteringfestivals, I'm trying to network
with people, you know,shamelessly throwing my script
at them and saying, hey, justtake a look, like you'll love it
.
Here's my card.
So yeah.
I mean it's garnered someinterest with like festivals but
like no money yet, yeah, it's avery pushy industry.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You've got to just go out there and have such
confidence the whole time.
Yeah, you know, yes, especiallycoming from a person, it's hard
for, like a creative, creativebecause you exactly, yeah, you
try to.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You tend to hide behind your computer.
You know, you're not, you know,and then you're like here, take
, take my word, but don't talkto me.
So, yeah, I and I'm, I'm my ownworst enemy when it comes to
advocating.
So it's, it's so hard yeah,that's.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
That's the dichotomy between, like you know,
narrative, traditional uh novelwriters and film writers.
They're two completelydifferent people.
We'll drive our little BuickLeSabres and barely make it to
some place with their picnicbasket and peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches.
They'll be in their Camarosscreaming loud, talking on two
(27:24):
cell phones.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
I'm important.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I have all the mocha lattes.
Yeah, no, it's totally true.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Well, hey, it's impressive that you're willing
to step outside your comfortzone and pursue all avenues of
the creative field.
There's a lot of people thatare just pleasant to settle.
And anything to get yourstories heard and seen.
It's worth the risk and I'mglad to see people like you
doing that.
So let's talk about your firstpublished work that people can
(27:57):
read today.
Yeah, okay, go ahead, take itaway.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I'm going.
Okay.
So we, you want me to talk, sowe I first person.
I've written a series calledLegends of the Veil.
It's going to be a four-partseries.
We have the first two books outalready.
The first book is called Childof Dawn and it's kind of like my
(28:26):
testament and my love messageto creatives like Tolkien and CS
Lewis.
And it's set in this worldthat's kind of parallel to ours,
it coexists with ours and youcan kind of cross back and forth
between the human world and theveil.
And in this fictional worldit's ruled in part by vampires
(28:51):
and in part by elves who havebeen warring with each other for
a millennium.
No one knows how the warstarted.
Everybody just knows thatthey're supposed to hate the
other creature that iscoexisting with them.
And the first book kind of setsup like the salvation of the
(29:11):
veil.
They're on the precipice oftotal destruction, like the war
is just killing their world.
And then there's a prophecythat if the prophecy is
fulfilled, you know, the veilwill be saved.
If the prophecy is not, thenthey will just cease to exist.
Spoiler alert the veil is saved.
(29:33):
And then we continue on to thesecond book, which kind of deals
with the situation.
What do you do when you've beenat war with someone for your
entire life, your entireexistence and now you are at
peace?
How do you function in thatkind of existence and the
problems that sometimes thatbrings up?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay, Okay, so, uh, how long have you been kind of
like uh fermenting this idea forthis fantasy story?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
So it started with, uh, like in COVID, towards the
end of COVID, um, I was homewith my two kids.
We were all really bored.
We had had it with thehomeschooling and the not going
anywhere, and I was reading thema really beautiful version of
Beauty and the Beast illustrated, and when I was done they went
(30:24):
off and did their own thing.
I don't think it impacted themthe way it did me, but they
don't like to read.
But I kind of was struck withthe idea what if beauty still
loved the beast and he hadn'tchanged like?
What if he didn't become likethe hot prince or whatever?
(30:46):
Um, and so, from, from and fromthat I didn't even really think
about it as far as likecreating a story from it.
Um, but then from that I waslike, all right, well, if I were
to do something with this, Ihadn't, I hadn't written in a
couple of years, and, and so Iwas like, if I do something with
this, okay, what does that looklike?
Um, I can't use the beastbecause Disney would probably
(31:09):
come after me for copyrightinfringement and you know, even
though they didn't come up withthe original idea, but they
still would try to like sue me,um, you know and in black suits
and Mickey Mouse ears would showup.
Exactly, and I'm like I don'thave the money to fight disney,
(31:29):
so let me come up with.
Let me come up with likeanother creature, um, and I've,
I've, I've always loved vampirelore, not just dracula, but like
even the stories that you know,stoker read to come up with the
idea for Dracula, okay.
And so I was like, okay, well,it's going to have to be a
vampire, right, but I didn'twant to have a vampire, that was
(31:52):
just.
I didn't want like the EdwardCullen version, right, and I
didn't want like this total likeevil being.
You know, there's kind of liketwo ends of the vampire spectrum
and I didn't want like thistotal like evil being.
Um, you know, there's kind oflike a like two ends of the
vampire spectrum and I didn'tlike either one of them.
And so I kind of created thischaracter.
Who he?
Yes, he's a monster, but he's amonster because that's what his
(32:16):
label is, okay, um, he's, he's.
He's come from an existencewhere, um, he's watched the
people he loved suffer justsimply because they loved one
another.
He's been raised to have a chipon his shoulder again because
that's his existence.
That's all he's really known.
(32:37):
But really, he has a soul andhe has a heart.
He just needs somebody to kindof bring it out of him.
And so that became Daggrun,who's my main character.
And then from there it was justlike, okay, so he needs to have
kind of like a counterpart.
Who's his counterpart going tobe?
(32:57):
And so I created this elf humanwho has kind of like the same
kind of chip on her shoulderbecause she's grown up in the
real world, the human world,okay, but she has magical
abilities people consider awitch simply because they don't
(33:21):
understand her.
Right, a witch, um, simplybecause they don't understand
her Um.
And that's kind of a messagethat I continue to work with
throughout the whole series is,just because somebody gives you
a label doesn't mean you have tolive up to it.
You know, kind of, find yourown identity and your own place
in the world, um, and what youcan bring to to the world and
the existence you have, um, byjust you being yourself and not
(33:45):
being what somebody has said youshould be Um.
And so, yeah, it's just beenlike this evolutionary process
of like whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Let me ask the important questions Do your
vampires die in direct sunlight?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
No, they do not they don't so that's where they don't
, and they don't now.
They don't glow, okay.
They're not sparkly, okay, good, they need blood in order to
function, but they're notnecessarily like lurking in
alleyways, okay.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Living in caves.
I tried In caves, no caves,tried in caves.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
No, caves, they live.
They live in, like they live indarker places, you know, like
gloomy but not um, yeah, and Ithe the thing that I really
liked doing in the first booktheir, their nemesis, this is
are um, elves, okay, and elvesare, you know, I mean you look
at like perfect example is lordof the rings, where you, or at
(34:47):
least in the movies, where youknow they're all perfect skin,
long, flowing hair, perfectclothes, pompous, refined,
sophisticated, um, generallycome off as the good guys, like
if you kind of watch the moviesat surface level, but then you,
you know that like, like theythey had, like if you read the
(35:07):
books, like there's a lot ofstruggle, that eternal struggle
that goes along in questioningand you know how Elrond fears
for Arwen's life and you know,like all the things.
And so, um, with the elves, youknow, they they kind of tend to
be like the light character, thegood guys, whatever, and in in
the veil, um, they're verymorally gray, okay, um, even
(35:28):
though their clothes are lightand airy and they live in a
place where there's moresunlight and things are green
and, um, their kingdom is on thewater.
Um, they kind of tend to be thevillain more often than the
vampires do, which wasintentional because I kind of
wanted to talk, you know, likeyou can look at somebody or
(35:49):
something and think that it'sevil or wrong, but that's based
on what you've been told and youknow.
Then you have, like, the heroor the good guy.
But why is that person the heroor the good guy?
But why is?
Why is that person the hero orthe good guy, is it, you know?
and so, um, yeah, there's a lotof commentary yeah I'm not, I
(36:11):
don't try to be political and Idon't try to have like like well
, you base off of what you know,kind of thing exactly, and the
and the whole thing started, youknow, again at the end end of
COVID we were tail end of, likeBlack Lives Matter and the
hashtag Me Too and all thethings, and I had watched a lot
of that through the eyes of mychildren who didn't understand,
(36:34):
except for the fact that therewas just violence all around
them.
The target that we go to gotvandalized, and I had to explain
that to my kids.
You know why can't we go to gotvandalized, um, and I had to
explain that to my kids.
You know why can't we go toschool?
You know all these things, andso you know it's kind of yes,
it's a fantasy and none of it'sreal, um, but there's a lot of
(36:56):
realness in the story yeah, Ithink that's where most
fictional stories come from,anyway.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
So exactly, um, yeah okay, another important question
does your vampire protagonist,does he?
Is he like a thousand years oldand date a 16 year old girl?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
he's not a thousand okay he's only 984 and yeah,
he's 984.
No, he's, he.
He's a younger vampire.
He's like in his like three,four hundred.
Okay, he does have a greatgrandfather that plays a pivotal
role throughout the novels.
(37:35):
He actually raised him and he'smuch older.
Okay, but he also does not datea 16 year old.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, that's good, that's good.
I think that was the part oftwilight that bothered me the
most.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
It's like wait how old are these two right, and
then he's like, you know Isparkle.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
This is the skin of a killer.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
It's like what I know right, oh, so bad, so bad awful
.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
so, uh, before kovid, when you were coming up with
the ideas for this and you hadwritten other books that were
predominantly historical fiction, I guess you could say yeah.
Did you see yourself onlywriting that, or were you always
open to the idea for fantasy?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So, like I mentioned before, if you challenge me to
do it, I probably will.
Okay, that is how these bookscame about.
I was very much historicalfiction.
I don't know.
I think the decision to writehistorical fiction came from the
fact that when I started reallywriting full-length novels,
(38:41):
that's what I was reading.
Right, I was reading thehistorical fiction.
Usually it was set like in the1800s, somewhere, um, whatever,
and so, logically, I should justwrite my own.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Um, and then I have.
I have a really good friend who, um, never thought he'd ever be
mentioned, ever in any sort ofinterview whatsoever, and now
he's like the subject of likeevery interview.
He comes up, because he came tome one day and he's like, he's
like Leslie, you've got to writethis thing off, like have you
ever thought of writing sciencefiction or fantasy, like you
(39:17):
should just try it.
And I was like, all right, bringit on, let's see what I can do.
Yeah, and I was like, all right, bring it on, let's see what I
can do.
Yeah, um, and I, and I couldn'tsci-fi.
For me again it's science anduh, no, that's no, it's more
like I don't think I could dolike the technical aspect, right
of um, you know the, the jargon, and I, I don't even really
(39:38):
understand the concept of lightspeed because it's like
completely beyond me.
So it, it was kind of like Ican't do sci-fi but I could
totally do fantasy.
Um, and so, like little did heknow that there'd be not one,
not two, but four books at least?
That, you know, were based onhis random comment.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You should give him a cut of the pie, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Uh, what is your writing?
What is your writing process?
Like you're actively working onthe next book, right?
Yeah, yeah so every day kind ofthing.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I try.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I really try Again.
I'm the mom of a 13 and10-year-old, and the older they
get, the more all-consuming theyget.
I mean, you know, 13 and 10year olds, and the older they
get, the more all consuming theyget.
I mean, you know, um, and so,like this, last weekend my
daughter had a cheer competitionin LA and so I was, I tried,
like I tried as much as I could.
(40:34):
I think I got like, over thecourse of three days, I wrote
like half a chapter, cause it'sjust, you know, you can't, you
first and um tried to write, youknow, in the gymnasium where
this competition was, in thisuncomfortable seat, and I was
there for like eight hours and Igot like two paragraphs.
(40:54):
You know, it's just that, that's, that's just life, um, but on a
good day, on a good day, Icould get through a chapter,
maybe.
Um, my goal I used, I used tobe really hard on myself if I
didn't achieve like a chapter aday.
I was getting it done.
Now it's a chapter a week, okay, and you know, and if I get
(41:17):
more done, that's fantastic.
But I just I have to be easy onmyself, because I realized that
life isn't what it was when youknow I was, yeah, my kids were
like toddlers and you could putthem in front of and also tv, or
give them a you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know, overdo your creative process and wins of
one of yourself exactly yes,it's wild that you can write a
chapter and a half
Speaker 2 (41:38):
no, and and it's true , because pasting is huge,
because I know there's a lot ofcrap that I've written, um,
that's not published, uh, thatyou know, it was just like I was
trying to like I I trying tolike vomit words on, you know,
on the paper, because I justfelt like I had to, like, I was
obligated to, and that's, that'snot a reality.
(42:00):
I mean, I guess, if you're anews reporter and you have a
deadline, you know you need, youknow, but even then you want to
put out your best stuff, right,because it's your calling card.
You know, but even then youwant to put out your best stuff,
right, um, cause it's yourcalling card.
You know it's how peopleidentify you and so if you're
putting out crap, then you knowhe's going to want to read it so
um, yeah, and so like, as faras, like I don't know, like the
(42:21):
process of writing a book, Istart with an idea, um, I used
to outline and I don't anymore.
I have a point a and a point B,um, the beginning and the end,
and I know what I want to havehappen.
Um, but, like, even right nowI'm writing.
So I'm writing the third bookright now and this, there's a
(42:42):
battle that takes place andoriginally the battle was only
going to be like one chapter,but it just kind of keeps
expanding, you know, and like Ican't, like I'm like, oh, this
happens, this should happen, oh,this needs to happen, and this
needs to, this needs to happenwith this person.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
And so now we're at like four chapters, exactly Like
it's just like.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I mean like this even this morning I was, I was
thinking that it was going tokind of come to an end and then
I'm like, well, no, this personneeds to do that to this person
and that's going to be like awhole nother chapter.
So you know, and so you justhave to have the patience.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, that leads me to my next question, because you
know, building a giant story,hundreds of pages.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Right, yeah, especially when you kind of just
like let the creative godsguide you to wherever you're
going At of, just like, let thecreative gods guide you to
wherever you're going at somepoint, yeah, you're going to
contradict a previous part ofthe book that you've written.
You know how, yeah, howdifficult is that.
Uh, you know to violate yourown rules and then remake the
rules and so on and so forth,like especially now that you
(43:44):
have multiple books.
Have you ever found yourself ina hole with the second book or
the third book that you'rewriting?
Right now that you've, youcan't go back and unpublish the
first book.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Exactly, um, not, not that.
I know of.
But yeah, like not.
I mean nobody's come to me andbeen like there's an error in
continuity, right, exactly, um,which I'm I'm very grateful for.
I do keep a copy of like bothbooks next to me when I'm
writing, like they go everywherewith me.
(44:14):
Because then I'm like, okay, Idon't remember, like, talking
about the Vampire's Age, Icouldn't remember there's a part
in the second book where, like,his exact age is mentioned and
I couldn't remember what I hadput, but I knew that I had put
it.
So I was like, okay, I've gotto find this because I have to
make sure that it's cohesivewith, um, the rest of like the
(44:37):
series and in this book, thethird one, um, we do a time jump
, uh, and so it it.
The first two are very linear,like one happens after the other
, and then this one, we jump 18years, oh, okay, and so it's
like I have to now not only beconsistent with, like what's
(44:58):
happened, but then also makesure that there's no plot holes
that could have you know,something that happened like
within that 18 years that I orlike even you know.
Like I mean, yes, they'revampires and elves, but yes,
they do age.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
So like staying, you know, consistent and like making
sure that, like I don't screwsomething up because I just, you
know, flash forward, you know,two decades have you found
yourself having to kill yourdarlings a little bit with, like
, oh, this is a really coolthing I want to do, but I've
made it already up to this pointwhere it's just not possible
and you know, so you just haveto scrap it.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Okay, that's got to suck, yep yep, yeah, no, it does
and also like the fact, like I,I mean, this is a reality.
It's reality in the sense thatthey live in a violent
environment.
People are going to have to dieand I don't like killing my
(45:57):
characters because it justwrecks me, because they're my
babies, but you have to do itfor realism and so there's
actually I'm going to have to.
This chapter that I'm workingon is such a chapter where a
major character is going to dieand it sucks, but I know it has
to happen.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Put on a walk to remember and play some Inyo in
the background.
Exactly Drink some red wine Getthe bunny slippers.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yep, make myself, yep .
I gotta get in the mindset ofjust total misery and depression
.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Instead of like George RR Martin.
It's like and done.
Yep, he's like, who am Ikilling now?
And he throws like a dart at aboard.
It's like Jon Snow, ExactlyAgain.
Yeah, why not?
We'll bring him back nextchapter.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Right, exactly, chapter Right.
Well, uh, last question I have,and I'll I'll surrender the
floor to my co-hosts here.
Um, so, what would you say yourtarget audience is for your,
your series now?
Um, you know, age group andeverything.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Age group?
Okay, so this is a very trickyquestion because I try to write
across the board.
I try to not gear specificallytoward youth or like older
people.
I have teenagers that have readmy stuff and I have, like,
(47:27):
senior citizens that have readmy stuff.
So, um, my, my target audience,when somebody actually like,
did the statistics or whatever,for me, um, is, uh, 18 to 34.
That's like a parent, theapparent sweet spot, um, but
again it's I.
(47:47):
I write with the mindset thatif my 13-year-old daughter
picked up my book and read it,she would be fine.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
But then if my slightly more into romance
friend, who's in her late 50s,picked it up, she would also be
entertained.
Okay so if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, like I was reading empire the vampire, for
instance, and uh yeah.
I, uh, I was thinking aboutrecommending it to my daughter
and then it got to.
Like some of the, you know the-smut the sweaty scenes.
I guess you could say and I waslike, nah, it'd be weird for me
to do this.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
So, hey, you should read this.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
It's like okay, exactly so right.
Like what's wrong with you?
Yeah, I mean, there's, there'sromance, there's romance in
these books, but it's it's likesomething that you would see,
like in a pg-13 movie, like ifyou went, you know, like there's
no, exactly.
Like I'm just, you know, and I,I sometimes I want to go
farther, like I'm like the sceneshould go farther, but I'm just
(48:53):
like no, I can't do thatbecause my, the audience that I
have, that I've grown, isn'tthat that they would?
They would burn the book, youknow and so I want to.
I want to, you know, I want torespect my audience.
You know which is why I havethis ghostwriting job?
Speaker 1 (49:08):
because yeah, yeah, then you can release the X rated
versions, exactly, okay, well,uh, do you guys have any
questions for her?
Speaker 4 (49:20):
The one question I was kind of wondering is, with
your veil series, if you weregoing to make it into like an
onscreen kind of thing, wouldyou prefer to do more of a TV
show, to flesh it out more, orwould you prefer movies to kind
of focus on the main story?
Speaker 2 (49:34):
whoever has more money question yes, yes, but
also yes, um.
So I I actually recently gotasked this question, um by
somebody and I was like, oh, um,my, I have a vision of what I
would want to see on the screen,of course, because I'm the
(49:56):
writer.
So if, if, like, netflix cameto me and said you know, we want
to, we want to do it, this iswhat our, our, our, you know,
our thought is for it and Iliked it, then Netflix would be
fine.
If a production company, youknow, whoever you know line
(50:19):
cinemas or whatever, came to meand said the same thing and I
thought they could do it betterthan you know, I would say sure,
right.
My whole thing with, especiallylike, the fantasy genre is I've
seen a lot of really goodfantasy and I've seen a lot of
really bad fantasy, right, yep.
(50:41):
Netflix buys it all Right,exactly, and I'm just like hi,
it's like you could do so muchbetter Buy my book, but we're
not going to.
I know, I know and it's horribleand so like I don't want, I
don't want like the cheese ballkind of like every you can tell
everything is green screen andyou filmed it all in a studio
(51:04):
and it's all.
I mean, it's all CGI and crapLike um, I can't stand that.
I know it has a place and Iappreciate it and I respect it,
but if that's what you're goingto go with, then I'd rather just
never sell my script becauseyou know, like I, just you know
I have like I, I, I know that Ican't have total creative
(51:25):
control, but I want to have alittle bit because I don't.
It's my baby, you know, and youdon't want to like insult your
own work by giving it tosomebody who's not going to
create the vision.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
Yeah, you have a quality in mind for your stuff
that you want to keep, so that'sunderstandable.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
You're a better person than me.
I would sell out in a heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Hey, we're still us out in a heartbeat you want to
buy a podcast, by the way, soand there's like there's good
examples of writers who wrotesomething and got to be in the
movie, yeah, and got mad, butthen they were like, no, this
actually worked out better thanwhat I wrote.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Well, yeah, so exactly I listened to a really
interesting question that aprolific author was asked and he
was older in his age and theperson said do you think authors
lose their focus the older theyget?
And his answer was really smart.
He's like no, I think they justget clouded with money, you
(52:20):
know, and I think that that's agood point, Like the person who
writes the cutting edge novelthat you know know goes against
the grain of society and reallycatches people's attention and
stuff like that.
Then all of a sudden, you knowthey want a sequel.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
They're flooded with money and it's like the next one
resurrect the characters andall this other stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
So, yeah, I would be that author though as long as
you're honest, that's all thatmatters money well, I love
comics and stuff, but nocharacter ever stays dead in the
comics.
No, it's true, it's true.
Come back somehow.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I want to go back a little bit to, I guess, writing
in high school and all that.
I was like all these Englishteachers you've had.
You said one of them.
You were a huge fan of what waslike the one paper you wrote
that they just tore apart andyou were like am I going to be a
writer?
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Oh gosh, so yeah, and what was their name?
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Yeah, so we can find them and beat them up.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Okay, I mean, I can, honestly, I can totally.
His name was Greg Stobie.
We're still friends.
Google him.
Greg Stobie was, was my Englishteacher and my drama teacher
and he, um, he knew that I loved, I loved writing, and so, and,
and I loved the classics andeverything, and so, uh, I, I
(53:44):
turned in a paper once on, uh,great expectations, which which,
ironically, I did my thesis ondickens.
So, um, yeah, so I, when Iturned in this crap paper
because I had procrastinated andhadn't done it until the night
before, um, he, he knew that hehad the right to shred me, um,
(54:06):
because I was subpar in what hehad come to expect of me.
Okay, and we had thatrelationship where it was, you
know, like you want me to readbecause I would bring him
anything I wrote, right, and hewould, like he would go through
it with me and you know you needto do this or you should do
this or whatever.
(54:26):
But, yeah, great expectations.
I will never forget.
Forget that, uh.
I still have the paper somewhere.
Um, I kept it as kind of like areminder that you know you
don't, you don't change yourself, or yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
So it was a productive kick in the butt.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
It was no, it was productive and he and he knew he
had like he, he knew he had theright to do it and I mean like,
and I respected him for thatand to this day we're still
friends and he's I mean I,literally I, I owe him my life
because I, I would not havecontinued to do anything,
probably if I hadn't had him askind of like a mentor.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, Well, show him some of your paychecks and be
like what do you think about menow?
Speaker 3 (55:13):
I wonder how many almost writers there have been,
because of English teachers,because of English teachers.
Like this sucks.
You suck Because, like everypaper I wrote, it would be like
a, B.
It might be the best I ever did.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Hell.
She could have been anastronaut if she had a good
science teacher.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yeah, talking to you from the International Space
Station.
The best paper though I everwrote and I didn't even write it
, I dictated it In college, myfreshman year they're like all
right, you can team up and writea paper, it has to be like 15
pages, whatever the hell youwant.
And me and my roommate you knowwe're sitting there like smoke,
a cigarette, have a beer andwe're like 18.
(55:51):
And I was like, all right, Igot it.
I was like start typing and theentire paper was about giving
the business.
Okay, it was the history ofgiving the business to somebody,
all because of something thathappened on Monday Night, 80s,
and we got a 95 and she's likethis is the best paper I've
gotten in three years.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
A 95.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Which just boggles my mind.
Sometimes you can write aboutthe most random thing and be an
award winning somebody, and thenyou spend countless hours and
years slaving over yourmasterpiece and nobody cares.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Next paper went down like an asteroid crashing into
the moon.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Well, hey, it was really great talking to you.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
I would like to keep in touch.
I'm going to recommend yourbooks to my daughter, absolutely
.
If she grabs onto them, I'lleven give them a read.
I too struggle with the forcedyou know methods of making me do
things like reading.
Do you have audio books?
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Is that a thing?
So I think I don't think thisis like secret, okay, but we're
actually yeah, whoever.
The audio books are actually awork in process as of this week
for the first two books.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Okay, so that's exciting and that actually like
came about.
So my Toby, my English teacherhe is now he's blind okay um now
, and so he's he can't read mystuff and so and he was when I
had you know um, when I hadfound that out, I was like, well
, I need to like come up with away for you to be able to like
(57:44):
read my things and likeaudiobook.
We got to do it like now it'sjust a sign I need to make it
possible.
So, yeah, so, the audio book,um, I talked to the people this
last week and it's going to belike a month long process and
then we should have somethinglike within the next month or so
.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
Honestly, that went.
That would go by a lot fasterthan I thought, it would you
know Right?
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Right, yeah, yeah.
I was like really Okay, ofcourse they might've just been
pulling my leg and it's going totake months, so who knows?
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
We're going to get right on it, wink.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Exactly, I will give it a listen and I'll count it as
reading and uh, but my, mydaughter will do it.
The?
Uh actually read the books.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Good for her.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Thanks so much for dealing with us and our
ramblings.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
Oh no, it's a privilege.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
I'm excited to see you and when you get famous and
get your Netflix deals and stufflike that, please don't forget
about us.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Absolutely not Okay.
You'll have to be at thepremiere.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
You got it All right.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
All right.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Nice talking to you no-transcript.
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