The BEST player to NEVER play in the NBA, Errick McCollum | Full Episode - Entirely NBA

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
My friend, he just actually just messaged me just now.

(00:01):
He was just like, that's the best player that never played in the NBA.
And I was just like, for real, like.
Eric, the undersized and underappreciated overseas superstar.
Again, what's up, man? Good to meet you.
You were one of the well, Brandon Jennings, too.
But you were one of the few people that transitioned from college

(00:23):
into overseas professional basketball.
So I want to talk about what that process was like for you to transition
into something like that.
Did you have to have an agent?
How did you get in contact?
What was at first that step for you?
Yeah, it was tough because I didn't even know where to begin.
All I knew was that if I just try to dominate
and I went to a small school, any high school division, too.

(00:46):
So I just thought if I dominate, maybe they'll find me.
You know, if not, worst case scenario, I got a degree from a good school.
I'll go use this business degree and work my way up the corporate ladder.
And so I just season ended.
We lost and it was a the conference tournament and
crazy, the team that we end up losing to, we lost in double overtime.

(01:08):
I think they end up winning the national championship that year.
But we lost to them.
I think I had like 40 something, maybe like 42.
I don't know my last game.
And I don't know what to do.
The season ends and I'm just like, you're a little bit depressed.
You know, you pour so much into the game.
It's been two days, three days, four days, five days.

(01:28):
I haven't heard nothing.
I don't know what to do.
I asked my coaches and then like the seventh day,
my coaches start getting calls and emails from agents
asking if they can get my information, they can reach out.
And so it took seven days and I'm just like, all right, OK, maybe there's a chance.
OK, the dream is still alive.
Like, I don't got to do a nine to five yet.
OK. And so then you start they start calling.

(01:52):
And I'm trying to feel my way.
I don't really know a lot, but I talked to some guys who played overseas.
I'm reaching out to them on Facebook because I was so old
that that was the main means of communication outside of a phone
when I was in college.
But I'm reaching out and they're giving me like ideas of questions
I should ask, what I should be looking for.

(02:13):
And so, you know, I'm just asking the typical questions.
Have you seen me play?
Like I'm in this little school, Northern Indiana.
Like, have you seen me play?
Number two, if you have some we play,
what countries do you think my style fits?
You know, where do you see me as?
What's my starting salary range?
I know you can't pinpoint an exact number, but a guy of my profile, my type of game.

(02:35):
Where do you see me potentially starting?
If you do have guys like me,
where do you normally place them?
Have you placed any other division to any other guys who were non-division one players?
Have you placed them overseas?
Like, these are valid questions because that tells me you have the experience
to get guys to where they need to go.
So after asking these questions, having these talk downs with all these agents,

(02:59):
basically all through the phone,
because at that point, I'm not really viable enough to come visit,
but I'm viable enough to call.
Like, and I understood that, like, you know, my ego was not bruised.
You know, I went to a small college, you know, D1's and offered me
like at that point, like it is what it is.
Like, and after I broke down who I wanted as my agents,

(03:20):
and he literally found me because I made SportsCenter top 10 highlights.
I think I was like number two or three player, I like jumped over dude,
got a steal, jumped over a guy, dunked it in one.
And then he, he seen my last name and he actually graduated from Bucknell.
And my brother at the time was a freshman at Lehigh.
And so he's like McCullum and he looks up and then he says, I looked you up online.

(03:44):
He's, I'd never seen you play in person.
But after you did that, dunk, I'm like, McCullum, let me check out his brother.
And he said, your film was unbelievable.
Like just the moves, the shots, your statistics was crazy.
I think I averaged maybe 26 a game or something and maybe seven, eight rebounds.
But he was just saying like the things I was doing, my athleticism,

(04:06):
like I was a division one caliber player.
So, you know, he took me on, you know, I went with him.
I liked him. He was honest.
He told me everything.
He thought about me.
And at that point, school was good, but the teams couldn't differentiate.
What's the difference between a guy who scores 26 points a game at an NAIA D2 compared to,
let's say, a guy at a mid-major who averages 12, 13.

(04:30):
Like a lot of teams overseas, they couldn't differentiate.
Like my level I was playing at, the type of competition, like does my stuff translate?
So during this time, there was like a popular camp in Vegas.
So my agent flew me out there, got me a hotel.
And was like, look, this is an exposure camp.
It's during NBA Summer League, too.
But the camp is during the day.

(04:51):
NBA Summer League is in the late afternoon and evening.
So all the scouts are going to come here.
They're going to watch and then they'll go eat lunch, whatever.
And then they'll go to NBA Summer League.
So he flew me out there and he was like, look, you need to dunk everything in one.
Crazy. He was like, every dunk you got.
So I'm in there 360 in windmill reverse.

(05:13):
And I was like really bouncy.
I still can jump a little bit.
But when I was young, I was really bouncy.
And he's like, so when you're doing that, I'm going to be working the sideline and I'm
going to be talking to each guy.
Yeah, you see my guy right there, number three.
That's my guy.
So now they see me getting freaking warmups and they're like, oh, OK.
Because everybody loves an athlete.

(05:34):
And then the games start and this is where I shine.
I'm skilled.
I can shoot.
I can play off the bounce.
I play peek and roll.
I'm good in the ISO.
And I just was dominating.
It's one of those camps where everybody play equal minutes and you sub and platoon five
into five like you're Kentucky.
And I'm in there and I'm leading.
I'm the only non-division one player.
And I'm like the leading scorer at the camp.

(05:54):
I'm playing 20 minutes.
I'm 25, 20 minutes, 20 points.
Like it's just boom, buckets, buckets.
And I'm there with a different mindset.
Like, yo, I ain't going out.
I'm not casino.
I'm not gambling.
I'm not drinking.
I'm here to kill.
And that's it.
And from there, he literally took all the clips of the games.
And so for any teams who couldn't differentiate my level of play, he was highlighting guys.

(06:19):
Boom.
Four year starter or three year starter, North Texas.
Boom.
Mac.
Boom.
And they getting highlighted and they getting cooked.
And it's just me just going to work.
And it's just, and then after that, that's when I started to get a few offers and we
settled in on Israel.
And that's kind of how it all started.
It was a crazy journey, but it's constantly proving yourself.

(06:41):
And once you finally solidify yourself and you show what you can do, then you get the
job and you got to prove yourself all over again.
So I'm just thankful I got that opportunity.
And I had someone like my agent who believed in me.
I've been with him for 14 years.
Shout out to Andrew Morrison, CAA.
If I remember correctly, there was a quote you had on another podcast where you're saying
that there's a Israeli rule where two Israeli players have to be on the court at the same

(07:06):
time.
Right.
And I think you guys had maybe five or six other foreign players.
What was your mindset like?
Cause obviously you're getting less minutes with that role in place.
What was your mindset like that first year where you're still trying to prove yourself
or trying to get that ground, but you can't necessarily get in the game and dominate because
of a rule like that.
So I was just thinking like, how can I help the team?

(07:27):
And I'm looking around and I'm thinking, what can I do that these other five foreigners
can't do?
And I'm like, all right, I'm younger.
I'm athletic.
I got to pressure the ball.
So I'm full court pressing.
I need to get on this court.
If I need to be Patrick Beverly, you know, just what I'm going to do.
I'm full court pressing.
I'm like, all right, I have to make positive plays.

(07:48):
Anytime I come on the court, I can't turn over.
I have to hit open shots.
I have to run the offense because this is a time when you got to remember 14 years ago,
they did not like scoring point guards.
This is when Steve Nash was winning MVP.
This is before Steph Curry.
This is before Derek Rose.
They wanted their point guard strictly to be set up in Europe and in the NBA.

(08:08):
And that was pass first.
And so I had to like adapt my whole game.
And I'm winning like, man, I almost scored like 3000 points in college and you going
to sign me to pass?
Like, like, like that's what you're doing.
Pass and play defense the same.
Yeah, I'm like, what is going on?
And they like, yeah, we've seen you as all defensive team in college.
And I'm like, I'm all right.
So I literally had to be a player that I wasn't really comfortable with.

(08:34):
And that kind of got me, you know, more focused because now I have to pay attention to detail.
I have to do all these little things.
I'm back to a role player and, you know, I'm an intangible guy, but I have like a big offensive
talent and you see it with a lot of young rookies in the league.
You'll see them come in.
You'll be like, man, they can really fill it up, but that's not what that team need.

(08:55):
And so every now and then I would get to showcase it.
Let's say the game got out of hand, things went bad or guys are struggling and then the
coach would be like, high ball screen, Eric, go.
And then I'd be like, oh yes, this is my chance.
And it wasn't often, it was like maybe like once every like 10 games, like just things

(09:16):
ain't working, guys are in trouble.
But you know, when he did call my name, I was able to show, I wish I could have got
more opportunities.
But I understand that like in life things happen.
I think if they would have played me what I deserve, because I worked hard, I did everything,
I dominated in practice, I did my job, but I was the youngest.
I was the lowest paid and there's six foreigners, only three of us can be on the court.

(09:40):
So when you explain the management, you bring in this rookie, he's supposed to be a project.
He's coming from a small school, but he just as good or better than those guys in his positions.
But they making four, five X his salary, how you explain that.
So I understood as I got older at that time, I didn't, I was really frustrated, but I had
a good vet.

(10:00):
They told me just to stay focused, keep a good attitude.
They was like, you're going to be a great player.
You just got to wait your time.
And I'm like, man, I ain't trying to wait.
I want it now.
But I had to wait and it humbled me.
It humbled me and it made me really dig deep to see how much I love this because you work,
you grind, you pour so much into the game and it feels like you get nothing in return.

(10:25):
And it's like every day.
And am I still going to come lift?
Am I still going to come shoot?
I know I ain't about to play much.
I'm about to play five minutes.
I don't need to work out for five minutes and you can't allow your mindset to go there.
And luckily I stayed working.
I had my brother, my parents pushing me along the way, telling me to keep going.
And I had great vets, Romeo Travis, Elton Brown.

(10:47):
They was just there for me and helping lift me up when I needed it most.
And I think that changed everything.
And even Joe Smith was helping me a lot as well.
When you put pressure on yourself, like you got to change your game to make sure you're
on the court or you got to do this to stay noticed.
Is that something that motivates you and push you forward?
Yeah, it was stressful.

(11:08):
Pressure can be beneficial because it's going to make you work harder.
It's going to make you spend extra time.
It's going to always keep you on alert.
I compare it to an animal, right?
I'm hungry.
I'm starving.
I'm not full.
I'm always looking for my next meal.
So it's like, I'm always on go.
In practice, I'm in go.
In the game, I'm in go because it's like I always got something to prove.
But when you don't have pressure, sometimes you can get a little relaxed.

(11:29):
You can get a little timid.
You can kind of rest on your morals and all the stuff that you've done in the past.
I didn't want to do that.
And I think what kind of set the tone is on my first contract, there was a 30 day period
where they could get out the contract or I could.
So that first month, it was kind of like my contract was fully guaranteed after that 30

(11:50):
days.
So I don't stress.
I'm like, man.
Every day I got to treat it like a game.
So that's kind of how I started my career.
My first year, my second year, I had a 14 day period because this is like what I had
to do coming from a small college.
Like I'm the only guy in the first division in Israel who didn't play D1.
So I'm trying to show my way.

(12:11):
And so my agent was so confident.
He like, all right, bet.
Y'all don't know if he can play here, but y'all like him.
Y'all like his film.
Y'all want to offer him.
I'm going to give y'all some security.
I'm going to pay for his own flight there.
And y'all can have that 30 day window, your trial period.
And then once y'all keep him after this 30 days, send me my money back for his flight.

(12:32):
And that's how it went.
They sent the money back and my contract became fully guaranteed.
And I said, I just say like, I was stressed.
Like, you know, I felt like every day I was getting critiqued every day.
I was getting graded and I had to bring it.
And I was just, it was a relief when I got past, when I got to day 31, you know, they
could have, they made me wait to day 28, you know, before they like, all right, I'm like,

(12:54):
y'all could have did this like two weeks in, but I think they wanted to see what I was
made of.
And now it's different.
Like it's a different stress.
Like I was trying to prove my career.
I was trying to make a name for myself.
I was trying to make basketball a way of life for me.
And I was trying to change my life.
And you know, I wasn't married.
I didn't have kids at the time, but I wanted that in the future.

(13:15):
And I want to be able to change their life.
Now the stress is just maintaining.
I just want to continue to play at a high level.
I want to continue to, you know, live up to my name, you know, represent my organization
well, my family, like all those types of things.
I won't, you know, I don't want you to come into court and be like, yeah, E, oh, no, I
want you to be like, dang, like E will cook you still.

(13:36):
Like there ain't no question to it.
So it's different.
Like once I'm fighting for survival for my life, obviously I have a degree, you know,
I can go get a good job into a great, you know, academic institution.
I'll be fine.
But for me, I'm fine for my survival because I wanted basketball to be my way of living.
And then now I'm already set, you know, I already managed everything.
I have my passive income.

(13:56):
I have all these things.
So now it's just about your legacy and continue to play.
I want to be done with the game before it's done with me.
If that makes sense.
When you take on endeavors like this, where your agent is paying for flights and he believes
in you strongly to where financially money's coming out of his pocket, right?
Which is a huge thing for anyone to do for anybody.

(14:18):
You take on that aspect and then you factor that in with the fact that you're the only
D2 player amongst D1 players playing overseas professionally.
At what point in time, if any, did you have the feeling like, damn, maybe I'm not supposed
to be here.
Did that ever run through your mind?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of guys gonna lie.
They not gonna keep it a hundred.

(14:39):
Like I was sitting there and I felt overwhelmed.
I'm like, dang.
So I'm like at the time I'm watching and there's a team called Maccabi Tel Aviv and I don't
really understand the Eurolead or this type of things, but like you start to hear like
history and I'm watching.
I'm like, dang, they got Jeremy Pargo.
I was watching him at Guessing Saga.
He is a dog.

(15:00):
I'm like, man.
And then I'm seeing like other guys throughout the lead.
I think I'm, Hercelia had a guy named Lee Nailon played in the NBA a long time.
I'm a basketball guy.
I'm a basketball junkie.
You who leave they arm was.
I was like, he was getting buckets for the Hornets.
Like I'm just looking at like, and this is just to name a couple of guys that I remember

(15:20):
from 14 years ago.
This is how, you know, like I felt this way because I still remember that.
And I'm like, man, like I come from Goshen.
I'm like, man, my in over my head.
Am I ready for this?
Like, like, you know, I need to take, you know, a different lower level and work my
way up.
And I'm like, all right, we about to see a sink or swim.
And so I'm kind of like going into those games, trying to figure stuff out and you're playing

(15:42):
against guys who played at major conferences, you know, ACC, ACC, you know, one of my good
friends, Raymar Morgan from Michigan state.
He was a rookie there too.
And so we had two different trajectories.
He's from my city.
So I'm just like, man, this is different.
But I kind of like got my feet wet.
One of the point guards got hurt in the preseason and I was able to kind of like get more minutes,

(16:06):
get acclimated and I really built my confidence.
I had a great preseason and I'm thinking about, okay, it's up.
You know, of course, when the guy comes back from injury, the season starts, you know,
you're back to the bench.
But you know, I kind of built my confidence through that preseason.
And that's where I felt like, okay, I'm not just as good as these guys.
Like I can, you know, outperform some of them on the night.
You know, some nights they might get the best of you.

(16:27):
Like this is basketball that you can be better or worse than somebody.
But you know, if you don't come in focused and ready or you underestimate, like, and
I was catching guys sleeping, you know, you see a skinny frame, you see a guy who you
don't really know on a rookie.
Like I know I was catching guys sleeping because they was relaxed.
And you know, when the vets in the preseason, some guys be chilling, like, no, I'm going
to go.
I'm trying to make a name.
Like, I got 30 days to get this contract fully guaranteed.

(16:50):
Like there's so many things that they didn't even know that they probably like, why he
guarded me so hard?
Why he like, nah, like this is my life.
Somebody told us that the rook is preseason.
I'm like, I don't know what that means to me.
This is a contract.
I'll be on a plane home and if I get home, it's going to be because I did everything

(17:11):
I was supposed to do.
I can look at myself with my head up.
I'm not about to go home knowing I gave half ass effort or I ain't put, you know, everything
I had into the game.
I was telling Darion, like scoring 82 points in any facet of the game, I don't care what
level you're at, it's crazy.
Would you say that was like the biggest turning point in your career where it came to like,
everybody knew like, yo, Eric needs a contract.

(17:32):
Yeah, I think like the year before that, I started getting like a lot of NBA interest,
a lot of workouts, a lot of stuff like that.
And, you know, I ended up ultimately, I didn't have a great experience at Summer League and
I chose the wrong team and it happens.
It's life, but you know, I still got a great deal out of China.

(17:53):
I was so mad, but Summer League that I was going to leave in the middle of it, but my
agent taught me this day.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
You ain't going to speed past that.
Why were you so mad at Summer League?
Because when I was asked, before I committed to the team, I had, because back then there

(18:13):
was like two Summer Leagues, right?
So there was Orlando and then there was Vegas.
And so I was going to go play with the Rockets in Orlando, but I had already committed to
Denver and Vegas.
And so Denver was like, all right, we want you to come to this training camp.
You're going to play at least 20 minutes a game.
We're going to have a training camp before.

(18:34):
So we don't want you to go to Orlando to play with the Rockets.
And I already worked out with the Rockets and they was loving me.
And, you know, I was like, all right, like this is a good opportunity.
There wasn't a lot of drive paces, but like Denver was like, no, we need you to come to
training camp, come to Denver.
You know, we're going to take care of everything.
We're going to have the main guys come for like seven days, workout.
And then from there, we're going to go to Vegas.

(18:55):
So we're going to be already ready.
So me not knowing the business like that and trusting, you know, people out there, I'm
thinking like, okay, like, why would I do this?
Which would have what is guaranteed for me?
And they're like, 20 minutes a game.
I'm like, okay, 20 minutes.
I can make that shake.
Yeah.
When we get there, it was more like six or seven minutes a game.
And I'm just like, what?

(19:18):
Like, I could have went to Houston for this.
Did Houston or Orlando?
It's a different experience and then I could have met y'all here in Vegas.
So I just felt like, you know, lied to, and I felt like, you know, they went up for it
or upcoming and who knows, you know, things change.
I know situations change, you know, but, you know, communicate that talk about that.
So I was ready to go home, but my agent was like, yo, it's a bad look.

(19:40):
You don't want to do that.
I like I'll play overseas.
Rest of my care.
I don't care.
Like I'm not, I don't know.
My goal is to be rich.
I don't care about fame.
Like I get play overseas.
I can walk to the airports.
No one knows me.
It's a beautiful life.
Like it's cool.
If I'm not in Ohio, it's cool.
Ain't no camera in my face.
I can enjoy dinner with my wife or my family.

(20:00):
Like if I'm not overseas or if I'm not in Ohio, I blend in.
It's great.
And he taught me in the stay in, but I was like, I, I'm about to sign right now.
And I was meeting with teams while I was in summer league.
And then I signed my contract in the middle of summer league with China.
And then I just kicked my legs back and it was like, whatever.
Now y'all can do what you want to do.
Yeah.

(20:21):
Like do what you want.
I don't even really want to play no more now because I don't want to get hurt.
I just signed the biggest contract of my life at that time.
I'm like, I don't even want to get hurt.
And so that's kind of like where the mindset was, but you know, when you, you, I was used
to having success at that point and I had never been in a situation where like I wasn't
playing minus my rookie year.
So it was like, that was an adjustment.
I'm like, man, here we go all over again.

(20:42):
Like I didn't prove myself.
So then go to China and that's when I dropped that 82.
You know, that's kind of like everybody knew I could score, but you know, like you said,
it's hard to score like that.
Like you got to be in great shape.
You got to be a shop maker.
You got to be a three level score.
You got to be able to get to the line.
Like all these different types of things.
You know, I kind of like open up the eyes of a lot of people.

(21:04):
I think they already knew, you know, what I could do, but that kind of like put me on
a level of like a phenomenal score, like not just a score, like an elite score.
And that was like, that was a turning point.
And then that led me to Galatasaray where I won the Euro cup championship and Euro cup
MVP and those two, those two things that year in China and that year in Galatasaray, I took

(21:27):
my career to like another level.
For those that don't know, just so because I'm a stat guy too.
I got your stats for that year.
Do you happen to remember how much you average that season?
First year, I want to say a little bit over 39.
Yeah, 39.6, 5.5 assists, 4.6 boards.
And the one that got me is this one right here, the 2.1 steals because 2.1 steals period

(21:49):
over any season would put you in the top five.
Like if you're in the NBA, it's top five period, right?
But 39.6, you couldn't get to 40.
You couldn't get to 40.
So no, that was crazy.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Always, always.
So when we talk about now, you just said it puts you on the map and it kind of took off.

(22:12):
Now for those that don't know, and we don't have to necessarily dive deep into finances.
But when you talk about the contract you got from China versus the contracts that you got
after that, what would you say the difference is?
How large?
The difference is the year before I went to China, I could only get like, I'd say I was

(22:36):
young though.
I was young, granted, but my offer range was like 150 range.
I was 25 and I was like 150K.
And then when I went to China, there were seven figures.
That was the jump.
So you're talking about 150,000, which is a lot of money.
That's a good way to start.
They're paying for my car, my apartment, whatever.

(22:57):
I'm 25 years old and then boom, that takes me there.
And after that, before that, teams in Europe was hesitant to get that seven figure deal.
And then after they seen I went to China, it kind of raised my value because with China,
a lot of teams in Europe don't like the Asian market, but I was smart.
I did one year and at the time China was only like four to five months on a regular season.

(23:22):
And I went right back to Europe.
So my name was still hot.
I didn't stay too long.
And so me and my agent had the idea to go back and forth between Europe and China and
that kind of like teams realized that they had to pay.
I think a lot of guys have a have an idea of their value or their worth.
And I'll always say your worth is what somebody's willing to pay you.

(23:44):
You might think you're worth more.
You might think, but if you don't have an offer of that, no one's going to give it to
you.
So once I was able to get that offer there, then the other teams have to meet that.
And so I'm able to get that in Europe.
And then I went to Europe.
They finally was giving me the money I wanted.
And then I went back to China the next year and China ended and it was like five months.

(24:05):
And then I jumped back to Europe in the middle of the season, three months later.
And so I was playing both markets.
So they couldn't say you playing in the Chinese league where it's not as competitive as Europe.
Did you forget the flow?
Like I'm like, y'all, I did my thing in China.
I played well.
Now I'm coming back to Europe after being in China and I'm about to do the same thing
here.
And that kind of kept my value afloat in both.

(24:27):
And it kept both the European market and the Chinese market compete against each other.
Now it's a little bit harder for guys because the Chinese season has increased in length.
It's like almost seven months now.
So it's harder to bounce back and forth.
But I kind of was one of the first guys to pioneer like going back and forth between
China and Europe and maintaining a high worth in both of those markets.

(24:50):
But that's the difference that year.
You're talking a huge financial difference between living a good life and then now being
able to do ample amount of things off the court.
So that's really the difference.
So it's not clearly it's not the talent.
It's not the talent that didn't like why you're not an NBA.
It was really just where the money was going.
Yeah, I actually had an offer.

(25:12):
It was like 2015 or 16.
And at this time, it was with Atlanta Hawks.
And it was to be the third point guard.
And they had Jeff Teague, who was a dog at that time.
He had signed, I think at that time, I want to say like 52 million.
I can't remember how many years, maybe four years.
And then Dennis Schroeder was a young draft pick, maybe had been in the lead a year or

(25:36):
so.
And they wanted me to be the third point guard.
And they were honest.
It was like, look, you're going to be the third point guard.
Jeff Teague's our guy, but Dennis Schroeder is our future.
He's not going to be a lot of ministry.
We like your game.
We like what you have.
We know that if something happens to one of them, you'll be ready.
You're professional.
You have the talent.

(25:56):
But these are guys.
So you're going to sometimes get DMPs, sometimes play five minutes.
But if one of them, we get hurt.
Yeah, you're going to play 15, 20 minutes for sure.
And I'm like, okay, I got to wait for somebody to get hurt to play.
I'm like, all right.
So that's one thing, going to strike.
And then I'm like, do I really want to go?
My mom and my dad and my brother was talking to me and they was like, look, I was like,

(26:18):
the lead is cool.
I'm sitting the bench right now too.
I don't know if you're going to like that, playing the main road, doing what you like
to do.
He was like, it's a lot of politics and stuff in between.
You could kill in practice.
You can do all types of things.
But if there's a draft pick, that draft pick's playing.
Or if this guy just signed a certain amount of money, he's playing.

(26:38):
It's just per GM.
That's how it go.
And so we sat, we talked.
And then at this time, the minimum of an NBA contract was only 400.
And I want to say 69,000 around, give or take.
So you talk about after taxes, you're losing, let's say if you're in a high tax state, 45%.

(26:59):
And then I got to pay my agent fee, 4%.
So let's just call that 50.
That's 49.
But let's just call that 50%.
So for it to say 470, now you dropped to 235.
Boom, just like that.
And I'm like, 235.
Like that was making like, I'm like, what?
And then they was like, now you got to buy your own place to live.
I'm in the lead, right?

(27:19):
I can't just live anywhere.
Now I got to pay for my apartment or condo, wherever you want to go.
Now you got to buy a car, like all these types of things.
I'm just calculating all the expenses.
And I just came from China.
Like, y'all think I'm about to take 7X less to be the third point guard?
Right.
Like 7, 8X?
Like, come on.

(27:39):
Like that ain't going to work.
And then the money just, my career kept growing.
So now the overseas offers is just getting higher and higher.
Like at that point, is you going to risk, you know, a year where, you know, you close
to pushing two, two million or you 1.8 million?
You going to go after you didn't build up your whole career, I didn't came from a place

(27:59):
where I had to do 30 day contracts.
You going to risk that?
235,000 net for a third string point guard.
So what happens if I get cut or if things don't go right, like you get injured, anything.
I want a security.
Like I came from the NAIA, like I'm thinking about numbers.
I'm thinking about like, what can put me in a position to where I'll be okay.
So for me, I was like, I can't do it.

(28:20):
Now, if you're telling me there's an opportunity for minutes for a role, and then I can play
my way into a contract, that's different.
Because I always believe in myself, but there was no opportunity unless the injury occurred
and I didn't want to take that gamble.
You had already technically been burned by the NBA, right?
In the summer league.
Now if that conversation were to happen with Atlanta, where they're like, yeah, you know

(28:42):
what, we can guarantee you 14 to 16 minutes a game, right?
You're still that third option for now.
We'll see what it looks like with you and the rookie at that time, then a Schroeder.
But gave you some more guarantees.
What would have been your influence to actually believe in that given the experience you had
in summer league?
Multi-year contract.

(29:02):
That's the only I would have believed in.
If you gave me a multi-year deal, I would have said, okay, I'm in your plans, but they
was only offering a one-year deal.
And I was like, nah, I'm okay.
And that was for me, right?
Some guys can take the chance and it might work out for them.
Some guys become two-way players, they get the deal signed.
We didn't have that when I was coming in.

(29:23):
There was no two-way deal.
There was none of that between.
You was either in the G lead, pay scale was way different.
It was an A, B, C scale.
If you had an MBA experience, your scale was $24,000 a year gross.
If you was on the B scale, your scale was like, I want to say like 20 or $20,000.

(29:47):
And then obviously I'm an AI, right?
Coming from a small school, no MBA experience.
I would have been C scale and that was $16,000 gross.
So like these kids, I'm happy for them.
The game has evolved.
It's grown out of G lead is actually something that where you can live off of.
But back in my day, you couldn't live off the G lead salary.
All those guys either had a job or they was jumping to somewhere in South America or Puerto

(30:10):
Rico or the Dominican or something after the G lead season.
So it was just, I came at a great time for Europe and China to have money and hold the
rules away, but it was a bad time in MBA when it came to all these extra spots they opened
up.
Those two-way contracts opened up.
Those extra roster spots.
They opened up two more extra roster spots, like all these different ways.

(30:31):
And you think it doesn't sound like a lot, but if you add two, two ways and then two,
two more roster spots, that's four spots.
There's 30 something teams in the league.
You just created 120 extra positions that didn't exist in my prime.
So I'm glad the game's grown, it's evolved, the money's increased.
Now the minimum is what maybe triple what it was when I was coming up.
Like, what is it?
A million, million, million one.

(30:53):
And in my ear, full 69.
So like, you know, it's just, the game's grown so much and I hope it continues to grow and
continues to peak.
But you know, for me, a multi-year deal would have made me think, okay, y'all mean business.
And you know, I understand like, do you really want to give your third point guard a multi-year
deal?

(31:13):
I'm sure you have guys lining up at the door to sign, you know, to be third point guard.
I was just in a position where I had leverage and where I was comfortable with playing in
Europe.
I liked it.
Like I liked the experience.
I've been gone, seeing different parts of the world.
I like nobody asking me for nothing because they think I don't got it.
I like that.
That was a good life.

(31:33):
You know, you ain't in the NBA.
You're right.
I'm not.
I'm not.
Yeah, I don't got it.
You're right.
My friend, he just actually just mentioned me just now.
He was just like, that's the best player that never played in the NBA.
And I was just like, and he was like, he averaged like 50, dropped 82.
I was like, because he's a basketball junkie.

(31:54):
He listened to that.
He watches all the time.
And then I'm watching the clips and everything.
I'm like, oh, it's he's he is a bucket.
But with that being said, like, how much was it that CJ kind of pushed you?
Or was that like a battle when you are growing up?
Was that something that you all like went back and forth with?
I'm going to stop real quick.
I'm glad he asked that because I don't think CJ pushed you.

(32:14):
I think it was always you pushing CJ.
But correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, yeah, I pushed CJ.
So basically, when we were kids, I was the one that made him get up.
I woke him up out the bed.
I was like, yo, we got to go work out.
And he'd be like, I'm tired.
I'm like, get up.
And we go to we go outside and we shoot.

(32:35):
And I started like, we didn't really know like everything about basketball, like, you
know, our mom play that play.
We just knew that if you shoot a lot, your jumper going to be wet.
So my parents was both good shooters.
And they was like, you know, you got to practice a lot.
So we would go out there and I just start like tracking our shots and I would keep track
of our shots.
And I had a little notebook.

(32:55):
Like, and so it sounds crazy.
But my brother probably at the time was like seven years old.
I'm 10 at the time.
And I'm just out there like, all right, we got to make 200 shots and we're going to keep
track of our shots because I want to see how much we improve.
And so I was charting our makes and misses.
And so he got to the point where like, I was fitting he get a ball, he shoot, I get a ball

(33:16):
shoot and we just shooting and we get on rebounds.
And we shooting and sometimes we rebound for each other.
But I just felt like we need to do cardio too.
So I'm like, get your rebound.
And so he'd be like, yeah, I shot my shots.
I'd be like, no, you did.
I was running faster than you.
And I got more shots.
Get back out there and shoot your shots.
You didn't finish.
And so like literally like I was constantly pushing away.
And then as we got older, like, you know, it's the same thing.

(33:39):
Like he wanted to ride the school with me.
At that point, I'm driving.
I'm 16.
He's 13.
But we have two different schools.
So like he is in eighth grade and my school starts way earlier, but there's a bus that
will take him there.
And I was taking them to my school.
My school was maybe like an hour before his maybe hour and a half before.
And so I'm like, all right, look, go to the gym, workout, and then take the bus.

(34:02):
So he would work out and then go on the bus since he was like 13 years old.
And then I was in like a special business honors program at my school.
And so then that school started even the extra hour earlier before that.
So sometimes I go to the gym, workout, and then I go to the class.
He obviously be with me because he wanted to ride the school with me.
And I was just constantly like pushing him.

(34:22):
And I just used to bully him when we was younger, like just hard on them, tough, just dogging
them.
And then like, you know, when you're young, you don't really want your brother to be with
you all the time when he's younger.
My mom forced it on us and was like, yo, that's your brother.
Whatever you do, he do.
So imagine like he like six, seven years old, he not that good yet.
I'm 10.

(34:43):
I'm hanging out with 10 to 12 year olds, 13 year olds.
And we playing basketball, football.
And if he can't play, I can't play.
So like he was always forced to play with kids.
He was older.
And then eventually he started to get good.
And eventually, you know, his outs started to count in baseball.
His shots started to count.
Instead of us just giving him the ball to shoot a couple of shots.
So he shut up and wouldn't tell mom.

(35:03):
Like now he playing in the live action.
And it was just, it was constant pushing and grinding and me being relentless, never letting
them beat me, do all those types of things.
Like he never even beat me in the game of one on one until his junior year.
He beat me in one game.
He still couldn't even say, but like he caught me slipping one game and, and he was so happy.

(35:26):
And that year, that's when they beat Duke and he dropped 30.
That's why after he beat me one game, I said, you ready now?
I said, you still can't mess with me, but you ready?
And like we would always play seven game series.
I swear he, he would probably tell you he couldn't beat me in a seven game series until
his second year in the league.
Now it's like, now, now I still can get wins, but like he can get me to serious.

(35:47):
Like he just, he got too many tools in the kit.
You know, it's just, he got some stuff, but like it's competitive, but like, you know,
boy tough, you know, like there's a reason they paying what they paying, but that's how
long it took two years in the league.
He couldn't, he couldn't get with me.
Let him know I said it too.
He know.
As you were, as you were saying that, uh, that story, something that resonated with

(36:09):
me was the fact that, and obviously you've seen it.
The NASAs when it comes to the NBA and Giannis gets a lot of flack for the shit that he does.
Right.
But if you dive deeper into that story, similar to yours, I think what goes under underappreciated
is the fact that you too, as older brothers set the pathway for your younger brothers
to thrive and grow into who they are today.
I can't, and obviously a lot of people can't thank you enough for pushing your younger

(36:34):
brothers the way you did.
Otherwise we wouldn't have Giannis, we wouldn't have Cesar McCullum.
We wouldn't have so on and so forth.
So I just want to say thank you for that.
That's amazing.
As an older brother, you said he couldn't beat you into a second year in the league.
And I can see that.
I mean, your highlights side by side are damn near identical.
So he copied my moves.

(36:55):
Obviously both your parents played basketball too.
Who instilled this into you?
Well, if it was them, how, how did that come to be to where you guys again are identical
players, but play at a high level.
You don't see that often with brothers unless it's brought in from somewhere else.
So how that happened with you guys?
I for sure got a credit, my parents.

(37:16):
So my mom made sure we did everything together.
So like we'd be tight knit.
It made us force a bond that was unbreakable.
And you know, you hoop together.
If somebody get in a fight, y'all get in a fight.
Like this is just how we was raised.
Like, and that's what it is.
And so people might not see that side because, you know, we talk, you know, articulate ourselves.

(37:37):
My brother's the president of the PA, but like, you know, we from the city, like this,
this how it is.
Like now we just, you know, went to a lot of good schools.
We educated, but it's still there.
You know, it's still there.
And I think you see it on the court, you know, when it's time to turn up.
But mostly like she always encouraged us to, to play sports, to do stuff, just to kind

(37:58):
of keep us out of trouble because there's so many distractions in the city, drugs, gangs,
violence, all types of stuff.
And so like, she knew a busy kid couldn't get in trouble because you didn't have time.
So we was always in every sport, baseball, basketball, football.
We did everything.
And then eventually it was becoming too taxing on my parents going to all these different
sporting events.

(38:19):
And my mom was like, yo, you got to choose something.
And you know, I chose basketball as a freshman and that's when we were told to choose a sport
maximum two.
And we chose basketball and my brother copied the same thing because, you know, he looked
up to me and it wasn't our best sport.
Basketball was our best sport for both of us.
But you know, we didn't pursue it just because it's not as practical, you know, in a city.

(38:40):
It's not easy to play baseball, to do these things.
Like it's easy to go work out in basketball.
It's easy to pick up a ball, easy to find a five or five game.
And then there's more people who look like you, you know, it's just more comfortable.
And so we, we chose basketball just because of comfortability.
And you know, I would see that's what was in the newspaper the most.
That's what got the most notoriety.

(39:01):
And so my mom would always be like when we were younger, if we was in the house, she
started making us do OD chores.
Like, oh, y'all want to be in the house in the summertime?
Like toilets need clean, floor needs clean, this needs wet.
We was like, oh no, we need to get outside.
And so we just started being outside all day.
And that's how like either you was going to be somebody who know how to clean up good

(39:22):
or you was going to be outside playing.
And then for my dad, like he would always make us watch Michael Jordan.
So like, imagine you a kid and I just laugh now because imagine you're like three, four
years old and you want to watch cartoons, but, but number 23 is on.
You watching number 23, because that's what my dad watching.

(39:44):
And you know, at that time, you know, one TV in the house, you watching 23 and that's
how it was.
And when that 23 is over, okay, you can watch your cartoons.
And so we were just constantly watching basketball and that's how we started to love it and enjoy
it.
And you learn from it and you start asking questions as you start wanting to be around
the game and your parents show you it.

(40:04):
And obviously like they didn't have like the crazy training knowledge and other stuff,
but they knew like the basics and the fundamentals of the game.
And they knew like things that could help us to succeed.
And I think those two putting that game around us, giving us those options, but allowing
it to be a choice.
Like they never made me or my brother play basketball.

(40:24):
They never tried to like, Oh, y'all gonna play basketball.
You're gonna buy me this house.
You're gonna be like, that was never the plan.
It was just, we want you to go to get an education.
My mom, my dad, you need to go to college.
My dad's like college is expensive.
You need to get a scholarship.
My mom, like you can get one through grades or through sports, but you're gonna have to
work.

(40:45):
And so like, it's different nowadays.
People put their kids in sports for them to go to the league.
We was put in sports not to get in trouble, to stay away from the bad influences and then
to get education.
So, you know, that part of the game is kind of gone now and I'm gonna try to bring it
back with my kids, you know, so that you don't feel like a failure if you don't make it professionally.

(41:06):
Like you still made it.
You was had a good career.
You became a doctor or lawyer, whatever.
And maybe you do make it.
I don't know, but I'm not dependent on you.
Your mom's not dependent on you.
And we want you to blaze your own trail, your own path.
And I think that's why me and my brother are successful because it was never pressure.
The family wasn't dependent on us to make it.
My parents both were.

(41:26):
They both took care of us.
So that's the difference.
If you could take an attribute or a skill set from somebody and bring it to your game,
what would you take from somebody and who would it be?
Oh, could it be something physical like size?
Whatever, whatever you think that would have pushed you even further than what you already
are.

(41:47):
It would be physique.
See if I could add like more weight because I have a frame that's just slender.
It's just how it is.
Like the NBA looks at the eye test.
So when you're coming up, if you look the part, how many guys look strong, physically
imposing, great athlete, but they're not really that good at basketball, but they'll take

(42:09):
a chance on them because of that size.
So if I could maybe have that size, I'm 6'2".
It could be different if I was 6'4", or if I was 6'2".
Instead of 180, maybe you 6'2", 200, but my frame just don't gain weight like that.
But if I could do something, I think that's would be a skill set.
I think I'm fine.

(42:30):
I can do everything on the court offensively, but the size just for the eye test and then
to make teams feel comfortable, especially when you're coming out like a college and
doing those things.
Or when you're coming out of high school and you're trying to get a Division I scholarship
because everybody said, I had Division I game and I was a Division I player, but they said
I didn't have Division I size.

(42:50):
They didn't think I could handle the physicality coming out as like 18 year olds.
So if I would have been a little bit bigger, a little stronger, I think that's the difference.
At the end of the day, you can control your body composition.
You can continue to work, you can lift, you can do stuff, you can get stronger, but some
guys is not just going to be bulky.
Everybody not Lebron James is strong.

(43:10):
Everybody not going to be built like that and that's life, but you got to make the best
of what you have and put forward and maximize.
And I think I was able to do that to maximize my career.
I never thought I would be here or have the career that I have now.
I always believed in myself.
I thought I was talented.
I just wasn't sure I would get the opportunity to showcase this, especially based on how

(43:31):
my career went, how I was slept on, how I constantly had to prove myself, how I didn't
get the D1 scholarships, how I didn't get the playing time my first year.
So it was a constant thing.
So people might say, how could you not see you were here?
But if you see the battles and hills and the mountains I had to climb, you would have thought
so too.
Yeah.

(43:51):
You talk about size in 2017.
I think it was you normally guard all the point guards.
2017 you did not guard one specific point guard who was what?
Six, eight, two, 30 maybe if you know I'm talking about.
Luca, Luca.
What was that experience like for you?

(44:11):
Man, Luca was special.
Still is special.
But at that time you read about someone, you hear about them all the time.
You're going into the yearly season and the first game of the year, Real Madrid, Luca
Dante's potential number one draft pick.
I think a lot of times young guys get overhyped just because they have potential, they have

(44:34):
size but the skill set hasn't yet caught up or they have the skill set but the size and
the strength and the maturity hasn't caught up.
But they're usually missing one of the two, either the skills, either the jump shot or
the physical attributes.
This was the first time minus Lebron James that I seen a kid with the physical, with

(44:56):
the maturity, with the pace, with the poise, not nervous, not scared and with the skill
set.
I'm like, oh my goodness.
He had his way.
He's posting up on smaller defenders.
He's taking the bigger guys off the bounce.
Back then he was moving a little bit quicker.
He's a little bit lighter than now.

(45:19):
He's leaning on you.
He's finishing.
The pick and roll ability.
I've never seen 18-year-old kids, 17-year-old kids play pick and roll.
Coming off, making the corner passes, the skip passes, hitting the short roll.
Really filling it up, giving everybody touches but then still finding a way to bounce out
his scoring.
He did everything.
If I can remember correctly, I think he might have been a leading scorer.

(45:42):
I think he had like 25, 24.
I think I had like 23 or 24.
I remember he outscored me by what I had.
I'm going to correct you.
You had 27 or 26.
I ain't about to let you sell yourself for it.
I remember going into that game and I was just telling my brother, I said, I know this
kid is going to be a high draft pick but I'm not about to be on his NBA draft high

(46:06):
draft.
When your name is from Slovenia, Lupa, Dauntage.
They just showing highlights of me getting cooked and then my phone is buzzing.
I'm like, nah, I'm going to hold my own.
It's going to be a hard one.
We got to revisit your contract.
I remember just saying that and I know my brother watched that game and he was like,

(46:27):
he said, oh, he's a pro.
After that game, I had never seen him live and I had skepticism.
After that game, I said, oh, he's ready.
He's ready right now.
I mean, you see what he's doing.
He's treating them the same way he did the Euroleague.
Maybe even worse.
Eric Green said the same thing about Lupa, which brings me to a good point.

(46:48):
When you talk about being a basketball player, you don't see as much athleticism over there,
but you see higher intelligence.
When you look at games that are being played in the NBA and obviously you participate in
the games that are being played overseas, what is that difference for you when it comes
to the competition level and how those games are actually being played?

(47:09):
I think the NBA is the best leader in the world.
I think when you combine talent, physical size, strength, speed, all athleticism, I
think that's when you're getting the maximum value of players there.
Are there guys who can play overseas in the NBA?
Of course.

(47:29):
Are there guys who probably play in the NBA but struggle overseas?
Of course.
I think the difference is because maybe guys don't have some of those same physical attributes,
they're forced to use their mind a little bit more.
Maybe you're a little bit more fundamental sound here.
Fundamentals might be better.
Obviously the effort and the energy is better in the regular season just because it's just

(47:53):
a difference of game.
There's not 82.
We're probably more in the regular.
If you're on a really good team and you're playing multiple games a week, you're probably
in that 60 range, but we're not playing back to backs, those type of things.
We're not playing 48 minutes.
We're playing 40 and there's more substitutions, those type of things.

(48:14):
I think the spacing is the biggest difference.
The court is so crowded.
It's like a collegiate game.
It's like you see a lot of guys who struggle in college to really get off, but they have
a solid career, but they're not that star that they're supposed to be.
Then they get to the NBA and they break out and you see them really start to develop different

(48:38):
parts of the game that you didn't see in college.
I think in Europe with the court being so small with no defensive three seconds, with
guys helping, clogging the paint, with a little bit more physicality, the hand checking, those
type of things make it a little bit harder to find your opportunities.
You'll see it in FIBA play.

(48:59):
A lot of guys might question, like Lucas said it, a lot of European guys said it.
Some guys who've played in the NBA have said it.
You see guys struggle in FIBA.
NBA All-Stars and they get to the Olympics.
Why is that?
It's not the basketball, it's not the rims, everything's different.
It's the fact that there's no space in it.
Guys who come from the NBA, I always say if you can shoot, you have a chance to succeed.

(49:20):
If you're not a shooter, it's going to be really hard for you if you're not a big.
If you're a guard, you need to be able to shoot that pull up, that midi pull up or off
the screen pull up.
If you don't have that, you're not going to make a living in the paint unless you're just
a freak of an athlete.
If you're a prime Derek Rose or Russ Rusberg, that's different, but most guys didn't make
a lot of those.

(49:43):
You're going to need a jump shot.
You're going to need some picking real skills.
I think the NBA outside of those max players is a specialty league.
Guys are really good at one thing and then maybe so-so at a lot of other stuff.
That's by design.
They practice just that skill set.
If you're a corner three guy or if you're a defensive guy, a lot of times other parts

(50:04):
of the offensive game struggle.
Not saying that they can't do it, they just haven't done it in so long.
You use it or lose it.
If you look at everybody, they were a bucket in college or they were a bucket in high school,
but if they haven't used that for six, seven years, I've been stuck in this role, it's
not easy.
It's not a light switch.
I can't just turn it on and just become this dynamic score or this do it all guy.

(50:25):
This is not possible.
You have to continue to use your body, your skill set, everything to keep it sharp.
I think that's the difference.
Overseas you're going to have guys who can do more things because teams aren't going
to pay you X amount of dollars to do one thing.
If you're a foreigner, they're going to want you to defend.
That's why I'm out here getting steals.
That's why I was out there playing defense.
I was young, I was full court president.

(50:46):
They're going to also still want me to score.
They're going to want me to get assists, to create, to get people easy shots opportunities.
Then some teams are going to be like, yo, we need a few rebounds from you too.
That's the difference in Europe where you might be asked to do four things, five things.
Where in the NBA, we need 20 from you.
You're not going to guard the best player.
You're going to guard somebody who don't score, save your energy.

(51:08):
That's the difference as far as a lot of success for players and a lot of guys maybe not having
that early success or struggling.
Do you agree with Luca then?
If you average, let's say you average 20 overseas, do you feel you can average 30 in the NBA?
You would have to have the touches, the ball, the minutes, the same type of thing.
Your role couldn't change.

(51:29):
We saw Luca, I think that year, you probably noticed that as well, but I think he averaged
15 points a game, maybe 14-ish.
If I remember correctly that year, that would have put you in the top five.
I know it was like Luca, myself, and I can't remember who the other guys was, but that
was like the top four scoring in the year lead that year.

(51:49):
I think maybe I was third or fourth.
He went from 14 and a half, maybe 15 points a game in the year lead to that year in the
NBA, probably close to 20, probably 18 points.
If he get that much better in four or five months, maybe, maybe not, I don't know, but
then the next year he's like 24 games.

(52:12):
That's some big quantum leap.
I think the skill set and the ability is always there, but the NBA rules are very beneficial
for guys who can create space, who can find their shots, and who can get buckets because
fans want to see scoring.
Adam Silver's a smart guy.
That's by design.
It's definitely made for entertainment.

(52:33):
They're smart guys.
They know what's going to keep the ratings up, and that's why they've adapted different
rules, tinkered with them, changed certain things to keep that game flow going, to keep
things safe for the star players so that they have health, but also to keep the quality
of basketball high and keeping fans engaged.

(52:54):
Fans want to see scoring.
They don't want to see that grinded out Slugfest basketball unless it's March Madness.
That's the only time that they like that.
Any other time the ratings are low, probably in the Big Ten, all those type of leagues
that just bruise.
They don't want to see it.
They'd rather see that up flowing, fast tempo, high flying, electric plays.
Who do you think you're top five, like who are your top five players that you played

(53:15):
against?
I'm sorry.
Luca.
I feel like I know who number one is.
Yeah, Luca for sure.
Yeah.
Well, I actually got to go back because I forgot I played with LeBron in the pro, so
LeBron got to be first.
LeBron, Luca, my brother, and then Michael Beasley.
Thank you.
Thank you.

(53:36):
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Michael Beasley.
Oh my goodness.
That's the name.
Animo.
He could do everything, man.
Everything on the court.
No offensive weaknesses.
He slept on like a lot of people don't realize how great he was as a player.
I know.
I just did a video on him last night about this and then we were talking to Brandon Jennings

(53:56):
and he was like, yeah, when it comes to just pure Hoopers, because I think there's a distinction
between a basketball player and a Hooper.
When you talk about pure Hoopers, Beasley was top two for him.
So I was like, yeah, he doesn't get the respect that he deserves when it comes to shit like
that.
He could shoot, could dribble, post a rebound, play a real path.
Like we literally, I was in China when I played against him and we had an All-Star, All-Star

(54:21):
game.
And so I made it All-Star, Beasley made it All-Star.
My mom happened to be visiting me at the time and my brother was playing for the Portland
Trail Blazers and I'll never forget this.
My parents are very honest.
I'm telling you straight brutal.
I'm talking about I'm 13 years old and they'd be like, yeah, you played good, but you missed
three free throws.
You did this.
He turned out like, they're going to give you the good and the bad.

(54:43):
It's just how it is even as an adult.
And so she's watching the game and she said, oh my goodness, who's that light skinned boy?
I said, that's Michael Beasley.
She said, oh my goodness, he good.
CJ and them could use him.
He could go play for the Blazers right now.
We need him.
And I was like, she was like, that boy's amazing.

(55:06):
I said, man, I said, there ain't too many people like him.
I said, he was the number two pick in the draft.
I'm like, he was behind D-Rose.
And she was like, I can't believe they let him go, but they do.
They do miss a lot of guys.
And I'm like, yeah, like you know how it is.
And she knows like, cause she's around us.
She's in the business.
She's just like, that's somebody who definitely needs to be back in the league.

(55:27):
Who's your fifth?
Hold on, hold on.
Yeah, you still always won.
So the fifth one was tough.
And I was really thinking, I would have to say maybe Marshawn Brooks.
And the way he scores, the way he like moves on the court is effortless.
Like, it just looks like he's never trying, but he's just consistently getting to where

(55:51):
he wants to go, how he wants to go.
Like he really smooth.
Okay.
Damn.
So did you, did you play against Mike James?
Oh, yeah.
Mike is see, top five is tough.
It's tough.
I know Mike.
Cause Mike, let's get, let's keep it.
I gotta, I gotta go.
I gotta go.
Mike, I gotta go.

(56:11):
Mike, because he the number one score in the yearly history.
Like you, that speaks volumes.
Mike is cold too.
He got every shot in the book.
He got every shot in the book.
I respect that.
I respect that.
I love that top five.
So then let's broaden it out then.
So obviously that's the guys you played against.

(56:32):
If you had to take a top five period, I mean, anybody obviously would assume Jordan's in
there cause you grew up watching it.
But who else would be the other four?
LeBron, Jordan, Shaq.
And then I'm going to say, Oh, I love AI.

(56:55):
I'm an AI guy.
That's who me and my brother grew up like monitoring our games, watching them.
Like he gave us hope to see a little guy.
So I'm going AI.
Like I know a lot of people ain't going to like it, but this is my, my five.
And then I would say Tim Duncan.
He just did a video on TD.

(57:15):
He's definitely slept on slept on.
Yeah.
And it's just because they always forget Shaq and Tim Duncan when they do a top five.
And I'm like, you know, not remember what Shaq was at the five and how Tim Duncan dominated
the lead.
Like, that's what I'm saying.
We were just debating, like every time we do, every time we have people do their top
fives with us, for some reason, people like to leave Shaq off that.

(57:36):
Listen, I'm like, name a top five period that doesn't have Shaq in that fucking line, excuse
me, like fucking lineup.
Come on, man.
It's ridiculous.
And, and if I didn't go off of my favorite, then I would say instead of AI, it would be
Kobe.
But AI is my favorite.
Kobe is my second favorite player, but AI is my guy.
So like, but if I had to choose just strictly off who I think is the best Jordan, Brian,

(58:00):
Kobe, Tim D Shaq for four or five.
But if I just went off a sheer who I like AI got to get in there.
I like that we had a question.
We had a question that was brought up to us from one of the guys in the chat before.
And it was like, if Steph, if you remove the jump shot from Steph Curry and remove the
handle from Kyrie, who's the better player now preference?

(58:22):
I think it's clear as day, but I could be wrong.
I'm going Kyrie.
The bag is Kyrie.
Say something.
My argument, I said, I said I would pick Curry just because of the minor physical attributes
that Curry has over Kyrie.
But I'm saying it's not a landslide.
I just feel like everybody's like, oh, it's a landslide.

(58:44):
But like, you don't think Kyrie is stronger.
You don't think he has better mid range.
You don't think he's a better finisher.
You don't think he's better in the post.
You don't think he's a better space creator.
Like if you took away his handle, he still has post game.
He still does have post game.
He still has pull up and he still can play pick and roll.

(59:05):
Steph Curry is a great player, but everything is predicated off of the jumper.
Thank you.
OK, so let me say that's not really.
So then when we talk about handles, right?
Steph Curry's name is brought up a lot with this.
I'm not saying he doesn't have a strong hand.
They just have to guard him all the way at half court because he shoots too good.

(59:26):
So you can get by anybody when I have to give you zero inches of space.
Like I say, he's a he's a solid dribbler.
Right.
So his handle is inflated because you have to jump.
You can't back up.
I got to guard you at half court.
So like one little flinch won't pump fake.
I'm fine.
Like I have to respect that.
You can't just contest.

(59:47):
I got to jump and make it even tougher shot.
I guess we.
Yes, Kyrie would be better in that than that thing.
But like we talk about we talk about emotions.
Steph is one of my favorite players.
So like I just don't feel like it's a landslide.
Yes, it would be.
But playing devil's advocate, I think I think I would still put it because I think he does

(01:00:08):
have a memory.
He does.
He has no postgame.
So you think you said what would be you think Steph Curry?
Oh, Steph has no you think you think he would be an NBA if he didn't have his jumps.
No, no, somebody told me that there was a somebody told me as a quote.
They said if if Curry didn't work, I mean, if Curry didn't have a jump shot, he'd be
playing for Enterprise.
But I don't know, it's just I do respect I respect very much like I don't know.

(01:00:34):
Kyrie is amazing in every aspect of the game.
But I don't know.
I just didn't think it was a landslide.
But I might be my heartstrings.
I think Kyrie the most skilled basketball player we ever saw.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
OK, I'm going to have to test you on that.
Right hand.
I mean, like, I don't know where he can't do.
I'm glad you brought this up.
So Gilbert called me and he was like, hey, before we do this segment, I want to ask you,

(01:00:59):
what do you define a skilled player as?
And the first thing that came to mind, just like most people is for me, Kyrie, Kevin,
stopping steps up there to Paul George.
Yeah, exactly.
Thank you.
But he said, I think Kobe, Kobe, Kobe.
And the reason I'm going to say Kobe, Kawhi, LeBron are in the top 10 most skilled ever.

(01:01:21):
And this is what we came up with.
Gilbert said, when you talk about skill, the first thing that comes to mind is always offensive
ability, which is factual.
That's probably 90% of the battle.
Footwork is in there too.
Footwork is a skill.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Then we said, OK, well, is shot blocking not a skill?
Learning how to time that to get it right?
Is that a skill?
Is defense not a skill?
So there's so many intangibles when it comes to skill.

(01:01:43):
Yes, anticipation.
Exactly.
That we need to start looking at what we actually see a skillful player as differently instead
of just being offense.
So that's something we're going to do in the coming days if you wanted to talk about that
later, we certainly can.
But when we talk about offensive skill, yeah.
But Kawhi is fucking the best ever we've ever seen.
So I agree with you on that.
Left hand, right hand, floaters, reverses, angles, touch shot, glass shot.

(01:02:09):
I mean, he has six to it and he can post you up.
Like you can literally run the triangle through him.
You could literally do it and be fine.
And he can pass and he can create.
I mean, he can shoot every shot, one leg, two leg, going left, going right, step back
left, step back right.
I mean, everything he can do one direction, he can do the other.
I mean, if you talk about weaknesses, he has zero on offense, zero offensively.

(01:02:34):
You don't guard Kawhi and say, all right, I'm going to guard him close.
No, you don't get broke.
I'm going to sack off.
I'm going to sack off.
He's going to hit the jumper.
I'm going to force him to the rim with the footers.
No, he's going to finish on him too.
All right.
We're going to funnel him to the mid.
There's literally no way to guard that.
Other players, maybe they're OK at some stuff, but there's a big drop off if you take away

(01:02:54):
usually a player's first option.
But with Kyrie, there's nothing.
What can you do?
We're going to make him play transition and fast pace.
He's going to do good there.
Or we're going to make him play in a half court.
He got that too.
And he got silent bounce too.
He definitely does have silent bounce.
Especially Ramadan Kyrie.
Ramadan Kyrie is super light.

(01:03:16):
So, them right now, you're building a team, you're a GM.
Who are you picking?
Who are you picking just regardless?
Me between Steph and Kyrie?
Steph and Kyrie.
OK.
Yep.
I did the same thing.
Steph has this gravitational effect.
He pulls everything to everybody.

(01:03:36):
Him just being on the court, everybody's going to be open.
Because now the thing is why Steph is so dangerous is because he's good with the ball and off
the ball.
Kyrie's not that good off the ball.
He doesn't run off staggers.
He doesn't run off pin downs.
He doesn't run off elevated because he's not a ball movement guy.
Can he do it?

(01:03:57):
OK, but it's not something he's asked to do.
But Steph is good on the ball or off the ball, which is really good for other stars.
So if I want to pair him with a star, Steph can still go get me 30 off the ball.
He can do it on the ball.
You can interchange him.
But it's like Kyrie and Luca have to take turns, right?
Like your turn, my turn.
I said, well, what Steph, it can just be offensive flow.

(01:04:18):
So if you're going to pick a team, I'm going to go with Steph one because he has that pool.
He's easier to play with because of how he moves, how he creates, all those type of things.
And then also, if you're thinking about the financial aspect, he has a bigger name in
a grand scheme of things.
We're talking about kids, dollars, money, box office.
So you can pair all those things.

(01:04:39):
Steph is the guy that you choose.
So then I have to ask you because you're bringing up some excellent points there.
Dynamic duos, going off of what you just said, Kyrie and LeBron, Steph and Durant.
Steph and Durant was fluid because they both don't need the ball.
It wasn't forced.
Like, what, LeBron and Kyrie?
LeBron kind of had to get off the ball or like, go ahead, Kyrie.

(01:05:00):
I'm going to shrink myself so that it's your turn.
Kyrie had to shrink himself sometimes for LeBron to do it.
It was always like a your turn, my turn.
It wasn't just a flow.
Like, I felt like the Golden State Warriors were just running plays and somehow Kyrie,
I mean, somehow Steph and KD would score and it would be in a flow to offense or they would
create, it wasn't forced.
It wasn't five guys watching on the perimeter.

(01:05:21):
It wasn't straight ice ball.
Like, it was plays into a flow, into an action, into a quick attack, into a score.
Like, it was just more beautiful to watch.
Like that Golden State offense was excellent.
It was smooth.
Yeah.
I got to go with it, but Kyrie and LeBron was just more like, I'm unguardable.
Get out the way.

(01:05:42):
Like, and that's, that's really good for those two, but it hurts your role players and it
makes it hard for them to have functional games when they're going long periods of time
without touching the ball, without feeling intertwined.
Nobody wants to play defense for 48 minutes.
Like, and then the last four minutes you got to shoot some clutch shots that you haven't
been in the flow all game.
Yeah.
I think that's also why I appreciated JR Smith towards the back end of his career, because

(01:06:05):
that's exactly what he had to do.
And that's exactly what he delivered minus the, you know, the fuck up.
But he was excellent.
He was excellent.
He was it.
Yeah.
So if you're a spot up shooter and you can't create space and you know, you're going to
want to play with LeBron and Kyrie, you know, but if you're a guy who likes to do some things,
who likes to create your own offense and do those things, you're going to want to play

(01:06:25):
with Steph and KD because they're going to give you an opportunity to do that.
And JR could do everything at that time.
Let me clarify that he could do everything, but he adapted his game.
He took that role.
Yeah.
He was looking like Kobe in them early Denver years.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Like baby Kobe.
We talk about elite scorers.
Obviously, I think you're in that category, especially overseas.

(01:06:46):
But if we talk about NBA, Carmelo or Durant.
If you want to talk about like there's nothing you can do about it, I'm going to get it.
It's Mello.
He could do it with brute force, physicality in the post, mid range threes, driving.
Young Mello was finishing over you or through you.

(01:07:07):
But if you're talking about efficiency, beautiful buckets, purity from a basketball purest standpoint,
from it being in the flow of the offense, from it not being a force, from everybody
still being involved, from a guy who can maybe go get you 30 and it might take 13 shots,
it's going to be Durant.
Sometimes you want Durant to be a little bit more aggressive.

(01:07:27):
But I mean, he's the guy that, you know, can really dominate the game and always be like,
man, he didn't feel like he shot that much.
And then you look at the stats and oh, he had 30.
Where Mello is going to impose himself in the game, he's going to force himself in the
game and he's going to be very good at it.
Like he's setting the tone early.

(01:07:47):
KD, more of a guy that lets it come to him.
So again, another conversation I was having when you talk, when you take two teams, right?
And you don't see this often in any aspect.
We take two teams that are competing for a championship.
You have one team that has the basketball IQ, right?
But they don't have as much experience.
So they have talent and IQ.
Posing team has experience and talent.

(01:08:09):
Which one of these two teams are more likely to win?
What's tough is the young players, usually their IQ is a little bit slower.
But if they have IQ, like you said, I'm going to go with the younger players because the
talent, the physicality is there and they have the IQ.
But you're going to need a couple of experienced guys sprinkled in there to kind of relax the
situation.
If it's all young guys, I'm not going to go with them just because they haven't been in

(01:08:31):
that moment.
They don't know what to expect.
A lot of these guys might not have faced adversity.
So you're talking about five star athletes, right?
Who came out, McDonald's, All American.
You've been fighting private, doing stuff since she was 14, 15 years old.
Some of these kids that having new deals at that age might be already millionaires.
Then you go to college, everybody caters to you.

(01:08:53):
Coaches are scared to coach you because you'll transfer, you'll leave schools, you'll shut
down, you'll stop playing.
You're already on draft boys, your world and your life has kind of been plotted out since
you were 14 years old.
Where's the adversity in basketball?
Maybe there's adversity in your life, you know, off the court, but in basketball, you
have never faced a trial or tribulation because you've been that guy from day one.

(01:09:15):
Then you get to the league, you're an early draft pick, the ball is given to you, everything's
going your way.
What happens when you're getting killed on national TV for bad performances or when things
aren't going right or when they're constantly draining you mentally?
The media can be very blunt and they can be rough on you.
A lot of young guys, that's hard to live with and to deal with.

(01:09:36):
They can upset not only you, your family, all type of things.
So you have to be able to take your emotions out of that.
I think I always go with experience if they're still in that age grade where they can kind
of still play at a high level, they can do stuff.
But young guys with right vets, it can be a beautiful thing.
And I think that's why you see guys like, you know, Giannis hasn't played for so long,

(01:10:00):
the things he brought off the court.
That's why you see LeBron still being so successful because a lot of these younger guys don't have
the IQ yet or the experience.
Obviously, he's a great talent, but he's a guy that's just so smart beyond his years.
You see a lot of Andre Gondola those years with Golden State, not only was he the voice,
the focal point that held them together, this is the guy that actually made huge plays in

(01:10:24):
the finals, was the finals MVP when people probably thought his career was possibly over.
But you see what he can do.
I think every team has those kind of guys who win championships and who are going to
help you get over the edge.
And without that, you can be as smart as you want, but you've never been in that situation.
It's tough.

(01:10:44):
It's like being a parent, right?
You have an idea, you read all these books, you prepare, but you have no clue till you
have a child.
And I think those experienced guys, they're somebody who's already had a child, right?
So they're going in, they've been here, they've been in that championship.
They've seen this kid grow.
Now they're more prepared for the second kid.
And that's kind of how I compare experience.

(01:11:05):
On the names you listed there, obviously championship caliber players, on championship caliber teams
are not the main focal point or main guy that have the IQ experience that you're referring
to outside of someone like LeBron James, right?
Because it's LeBron James.
So the game or the teams that I'm referring to actually in the 2021 finals, Milwaukee

(01:11:26):
Bucks versus Phoenix Suns.
Phoenix Suns in my case, or in my opinion, being the more IQish team, whereas the Bucks
have the experience and talent.
I'm saying, and forgive me, Kyle, because this is one of his favorite players ever.
Am I wrong for saying Chris Paul is not that guy or can't be that guy?
I mean, history has kind of shown that a little bit.
I think he could have been the guy that year in Houston when he got hurt.

(01:11:48):
When he got hurt game six.
Good point.
That game six, that was the year when he was at his peak.
He was playing well.
He was smart.
His IQ was high and they were really controlling the series.
And I think that was his move.
I think he was dominating and he was so smart.
I think that was his point.
I think now it can't be he's at that point where he's declining and everybody can't decline

(01:12:15):
like LeBron.
His decline is still ridiculous.
Everybody's at a different body type, a different composition.
Some things aren't built to last forever.
And I think when you look at Chris Paul's injury history, you look at his body, you
look at those type of things, he just hasn't been fortunate health-wise.

(01:12:35):
And so those injuries, they wear, they tear, they wear on you as you get older and older.
And I think Father of Time has caught up because this is a guy who was one of the greatest
point guards of this generation.
When you're thinking about those New Orleans days, when you're thinking about all that
success he had, what he was able to turn that into and how he spearheaded those Rockets
teams before the injury.

(01:12:56):
This is a high level player.
He had one window, one shot and you need the perfect team.
The basketball is a tough game, but you could be the best player you want to be.
But if you don't have the right pieces, if you're not clicking at the right time, if
you don't have health, everything has to fall together at once.
You don't have to be the best team, but you just have to be playing the best at that time.

(01:13:17):
And that's what you saw with those Miami Heat teams that made those deep runs, made some
upsets.
They weren't the best.
They didn't have the most talent, but they were playing the best at that time.
And that's what triggered them.
And I think that's the key.
So I think Golden State, if that's who you're referring to now since CP is there, I don't
see the championship even a chance in it.

(01:13:38):
I mean, the West is loaded.
I mean, you think about Denver, I'm not going to count OKC.
They're great, but they're not ready yet.
They're too young.
They don't have that experience, but they're excellent.
But I still think that's Denver's opportunity to do something with until somebody knocks
them off.
And then even then, maybe Phoenix might be able to do something, but they pigeonholed

(01:14:03):
themselves by being in the play playing.
Same with the Lakers.
Those teams have experience.
They have good players, but it's very hard to get out the doghouse when you dig a hole
like that.
And then you still think the Clippers are loaded.
If any of they could just stay healthy, they're the best team in NBA.

(01:14:24):
They have the experience.
They have the championship knowledge.
They have a good coach.
Like if they don't get injured, I'd be shocked if they don't win the championship.
The only person that maybe can knock them off because they match up bad against them
is the Pails.
If the Pails can maintain maybe that first spot.
That's a bad matchup for the Clippers.
They just have watched the games in a regular season.
They have the size.

(01:14:45):
They have the matchups.
They have guys who Herb can guard.
They have the pieces that can put their Brandon Ingram can get in front of Paul Jordan.
They have the length, have the size.
It's not going to be easy, but they have the buddies and then there's no answer for Zion.
So if you just think like they have nobody to guard him.
So you think about matchups.
Like what are you going to do?
You're going to put Kawhi and Paul Jordan on Zion and he could just go through them

(01:15:08):
and bully boss all game.
That's 10 fouls.
He's running through them and you know what the injury history is that what you really
want to do.
Right.
I agree with you, but at the same time, like it's hard for me to bet against a healthy
Kawhi.
Like as much as, as much as we talk about his injury history, which is obviously a factor
and it's a lot of the reason he hasn't been able to do anything in recent years, Kawhi

(01:15:32):
is one of the scariest superstars I think in the postseason when healthy animal animal
and Paul George and then Norman Powell.
Norman.
I like you.
I like the X Factor on that.
Yes.
He's the difference.
And so when you put that together to me, the Clippers is the best team in the NBA.

(01:15:53):
It's just a matter of can they be healthy?
You never know.
Denver has the best chemistry, chemistry Boston.
Boston has the most talent.
Thank you.
You start looking at all these different things and it's like, which one is going to give?
And for me, the Clippers is the best, but if one guy gets injured, you know, everything
says and it's highly likely that could happen to them because it's happened so much.

(01:16:17):
You don't even want to get your hopes up for what they could be.
I agree.
And you look at PG, obviously Kawhi, even James Harden has had injury history and then
Russ Russ is normally healthy for a long stretch.
He's had recent injuries too.
So it's it's up in the air.
I agree with you on that.
But I like that on paper.
Definitely on paper for sure.
You brought the sons and this is actually a video I'm probably going to do later this

(01:16:38):
week because I think it's going to happen.
I.T. Isaiah Thomas obviously signed a 10 day with them, which was phenomenal for the NBA
and phenomenal for him, I loved it.
But the problem with that is, and you tell me your opinion on 10 day contracts in general,
when you sign someone like that, especially towards this part of the season where every
game, especially in the West, counts and you need to get these dubs, you're not playing

(01:17:00):
him right.
So from an inside perspective, are you only looking at Isaiah Thomas for veteran leadership,
chemistry?
If someone gets hurt, obviously you need someone to come in.
Is that what you're looking at this for?
Or is it just we just, you know, we're signed him 10 day, we're going to let him go.
It is what it is.
I think they wanted to see if he was healthy.
Right.

(01:17:21):
OK.
He's a guy that could help you potentially in the postseason.
You know, right now it's too much to ask of somebody to come in maybe not in mode as far
as tip top basketball.
Yes, he's been working out, he's been training, but that's the difference between being in
the games, getting up and down the court, practicing every day.
So you bring him in, you see where he's at.
Right.
So I think he can be potentially a spark off the bench score with the Suns history with

(01:17:47):
injuries this season.
It's been awful.
So now you have a guy who if one of your main guys go down, because for some reason, their
big three can't play together.
Like, I don't know why they just they're always injured.
You can't get Bill Booker in their rent all together.
So, you know, to make a deep run in the postseason now, you need three guys who can score.

(01:18:08):
And I think he's insurance in case one of those guys can't and he might not be consistent
with it because he's been out for a while.
He might not be able to do every night.
But if there's one game and IT has that ability we've seen in the past that he could change
the outcome of a game and it might not be 30 points like old IT, but it might be a quarter
where you know, the offense is struggling.

(01:18:29):
They're not scoring and you're able to get, you know, 10, 12 points out of him that court.
Yeah.
And maybe he finishes the game with 14, 15 points, but he had a quarter where he changed
the series.
And if that only cost you a 10 day contract, when you're thinking of financial terms, when
you're thinking of cap space, then that's the guy that you take because it does cost

(01:18:49):
you nothing.
Like there's nothing you lose there.
He's a guy that actually has a good fan base to like it's a good feel good story.
And then if anything, you're bringing in a vet who's been humbled, who's coming in with
good character, who could be a leader to some of the younger guys who could lean on and
his experience, he's been in big games.
You know, he's been in big games seven, he's faced adversity, you know, the death of his

(01:19:09):
sister when he was able to go out there and go crazy.
I don't know what 50 and it just shows you that he's mentally tough and strong.
And if anything, even if he doesn't get you scoring off the bench or he doesn't even have
an impact on your games, you're bringing in somebody who could be good for your team camaraderie
and who's mentally strong and you can never get enough to good team guys, you know, so
whether it's him or another guy, if you're going to use them or not, you want to bring

(01:19:32):
in a good character.
And I think that's what the Suns was looking at, because there's going to be adversity
in the playoffs, there's going to be ups and downs.
And for them, it could be in the playing.
And I think a guy like him having his knowledge, his experience, it could be valuable, whether
he plays or not, it could be a Udonna's Haslem role, or it could be, you know what, someone
got hurt, we're going to throw you into the series, go shock the world.

(01:19:54):
Do you think if you have a 10 day contract that there should be some type of like minimal
amount of minutes that you should play?
Like the other day, we're sitting there, I forgot who they're playing, but they were
up at like 50.
Spurs, I think they were.
They were playing the Spurs, they were up at like 30 in the middle of the third quarter.
And then when you got to the fourth quarter, like 10 minutes left, they still up by a good
amount.
Not saying you should just throw them in there, but like, do you think they should be in there?

(01:20:16):
Because like, at that point, it's not garbage minutes, but you're looking forward to see
if he's still got it, if he can still move up and down the court.
And as you know, I know there's a lot of variables, right?
Obviously, LeBron and JJ Redd just talked about this.
You can't be up 20 with seven minutes left in today's era because you could still lose
that game.
We get that.
And there's a lot of other factors.
But I was thinking, I don't know, if you're not looking at it from a team aspect, which

(01:20:40):
you can see in practice and how it actually works out on that side of things, then I don't
know.
If you're up 25 points with this left, can you not get three, four, five minutes?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I think three to four is reasonable.
I think 10 is too much only because he just got there.
As a coach, you risk losing the team.

(01:21:02):
If you give a guy just minutes who just got here and there's guys who've been busting
their butt, who've been working, who've been grinding, who've been doing all these things
all year, and this is your time to reward them to see what you have, to see who you
could potentially use in the playoffs and the play-in series for them.
All these things you have to tinker with, right?
But I want to see what IT has.
So I'm going to throw him out there in the mix and I'm going to talk to him before I

(01:21:23):
do it because he's a vet.
I want to know, like, hey, I want to get you some game action.
We're up by a lot.
I don't want you to feel disrespected because I know your career you had, how you feel about
going in there giving me a good four or five minutes strong if we can continue to maintain
this lead.
And based on his energy and his effort, whatever he say, that could be the difference between

(01:21:44):
him getting another 10 days added to his contract or that could be the difference between me
being like, we tried, this ain't going to work.
So if it's anything other than, yeah, coach, I'm going to get out there, I'm going to do
it because when you're in a 10 day contract, you don't have no leverage.
You at Day Mercy, you just lucky to be there.
And I think that's his mindset.
Like he been wanting the opportunity, the opportunity is here.
Now you have to deal with whatever role you get.

(01:22:05):
You've been working, you've been grinding, you've been saying you want to do this, you
want to do that.
And he's been talking to kids, doing certain stuff, sharing his experiences.
So you can tell mentally, I feel like he ready for that.
So I wouldn't give him 10 just because he just got there and I want him to earn his
keep earn his way and I want to reward the guys who already been there.
Because anytime you get up by that amount of points, you know, it's not a great opportunity

(01:22:29):
throughout the nights to continue to play your bench.
And this is the best time to do it because you're up so much.
But for three to four or five minutes, like, you know, you got to test that out.
If not, why is he even there?
That was that was my thing too.
So what if it's not just brainstorming?
What if it's not 10 minutes in a game, but more or less 10 minutes minimum over the course
of that 10 day?
Because that's normally three games or so, right?

(01:22:50):
So we're giving them about three minutes and 20 seconds per game during that time.
Do you think that'd be enough?
I think they should scale it.
So see, you know, give them three, four minutes, give them a run, see how the team plays, you
know, how was the plus minus?
How was the game flow?
The things fit?
You know, does he know how to plays or things going seamlessly?
And then the next game, you know, maybe you can take it up a little bit more, you know,

(01:23:14):
maybe instead of four minutes, maybe it might be seven or eight minutes.
And if he if he's in the plans for you, you know, potentially in a play in and for you
to make a run, this is only that's the only reason I would do it.
And then if things go well there, then the third game, I would take it a little bit more.
And then we would know what we have.
And he would probably be in that 12 to 15 minute range, you know, just seeing what I

(01:23:35):
could get if we got to that point where he was somebody I could utilize.
Because I mean, Bradley Bill is probably going to play 38 minutes.
Brian Booker is going to play 38 minutes and KD is probably going to play 38 minutes.
So there's not like a ton of minutes and he can't really play KD's minutes.
It's a size difference.
He really got to play minutes at the one unless you pair him with a tall guard.

(01:23:58):
So you know, there's not like a ton of time available.
And I'm sure they want to use that big three together and then staggered eight minutes.
And then when they stagger them, where maybe one or two are out there, they're going to
run the offense through them.
And then when the other one comes in, they're going to run offense to him to try to keep
everybody's touches, you know, afloat and to keep everybody involved in the game.
So even if he's out there, he's not really going to be able to be IT because they have

(01:24:20):
three very dominant guys.
Not only that, but you can't forget about how great Grayson Allen is playing as well.
So you got you got to trick him in there.
So that's all I'm saying.
So whose minutes do you take?
That problem isn't should I T play?
The problem is who shouldn't play.
So the last one I got for you is clearly you've had a great career, like it's still currently

(01:24:43):
going has been very successful for you.
But I asked like, how do you like in your opinion, like how do you describe what success
is like what is success for you?
For me, success is maximizing what God gave you right?
Every day, taking that gift.
It doesn't matter if it's academics, if it's art, if it's music, if it's taking it every

(01:25:07):
day and working on it and by you working on it, by you respecting it, you know, it shows
that you're grateful for the gift.
You know, you don't waste that gift.
You know, he blessed you.
He chose you to do this, whatever it is you were supposed to do in life.
So you owe it to him to maximize that and to take it to whatever level you can.
And then after doing that with that gift, I think you need to do impact, you know, to

(01:25:33):
other people, whether that's something given back, could be financially, could be preferably
also time, energy, effort, help and others, you know, because, you know, he bestowed all
these things upon you and put you in a position to be where you at.
And then you did your part, you worked, you grinded, you put forth the effort, you spent
all that time.

(01:25:54):
So, you know, it's kind of like yin and yang, y'all both working together, y'all need each
other.
And then now you're able to pass that on.
And I think that's true success when you can help others get to where they want to get
and have a positive impact on people.
Like when people come across you or they meet you, you know, they should feel, you know,
something special, whether it's, you know, just your energy, just your aura, just your

(01:26:16):
positivity, just your upliftingness, you speaking life into people.
Like to me, that's success.
It's not about how much money you make, none of that.
It's not about how, what level you get to.
It's about whatever you're good at, maximize that, push that, and then use that gift to
help others.
And that's what I've tried to do.
And I think I've been successful with that.
And I'm still trying to continue to work on it.

(01:26:38):
I think the work's not done.
You know, as long as I have, you know, a breath in my lungs, I'm going to continue to try
to push that narrative.
And, you know, sometimes it might be the young guys on my team.
Sometimes it could be friends, family members.
Sometimes it could be something totally outside of basketball.
But, you know, I try to speak life into everybody and I try to help.
And I want to see everybody eat because, you know, there's more than enough food out there

(01:26:58):
for everybody.
You know, everybody can be successful in their own lane.
You know, your success doesn't take away from me.
Mine doesn't take away from you.
You know, we can all be in this together.
So that's true success.
And I think that's where happiness lies.
Because if you do those things, you're giving back and you're making that impact, how can
you not be happy with yourself?
Obviously, with all the success that you have, have had and are currently having, you're

(01:27:22):
on that back end stretch of your careers, right?
So what's in the plans for the moment you take off that jersey?
So I'm torn between two things.
I'm always put the family first and, you know, take care of the kids and, you know, spend
time with wifey and stuff.
But I'm very interested in still being around the game.
But I don't want it to affect my family dynamic just because I've been away so much.

(01:27:47):
You know, and I get to see my immediate family all the time.
But what about my extended, you know, I don't get to see my parents as much as I like, you
know, my cousins, my aunts, my uncles, you know, life is short.
But you know, with that said, you know, I'm curious about going into the broadcasting
industry.
I've already been, you know, getting my reps, getting my practice, being around the game,
talking about it.
You know, I want to be someone who articulates the game, teaches the game, you know, but

(01:28:11):
also, you know, let you know what's going on.
You know, I want to be, I want to be different.
You know, if I choose that route, you know, I want to be someone, I want to be one of
those old guys who hate, you know, the young guys making all this money.
They're playing like, I want to be somebody who was like, who's positive.
Like, you know, I watched Alan Iverson, how he talks about the young generation and I
just love it.
Like he speaks nothing but positivity and that's something I can get behind.

(01:28:34):
And that doesn't mean I won't critique you.
That doesn't mean I won't let you know when you didn't play at your level or you didn't
do something.
But I'm not going to use it as like a platform to bash people.
You know, I'm going to just try to stay true.
And I know it's not easy because they won't clicks, but you know, that's, I want to be
a purist.
And then secondly, people have been trying to get me to go into it, but I just feel like
it's too time demanding and it's coaching.

(01:28:55):
You know, I know it's just, I am with this air.
Like you can't really coach kids like you used to.
They'll transfer on you immediately.
You have to lead with money.
Everybody thinks they kid deserves everything at once.
No one wants to take the long route, you know, to take the detour.

(01:29:16):
No one wants to get it out the mud.
You know, they want to play right away as a freshman, you know, which was not the typical
way that things started.
You know, imagine if, you know, with Michael Jordan be Michael Jordan, you know, if he,
you know, have maybe a minimized role in North Carolina until he hit that last shot, you
know, he's not the only one, you know, other guys, you know, took a long route and they
became great players, you know, or they was okay players and freshmen and they grew, you

(01:29:39):
know, Kawhi Leonard, you know, like different guys like that.
So I just feel like those first couple of years in LA.
So like, I feel like when I be too blunt, when I be too rough, would it be too hard?
I don't want to like kiss players butt.
Like I want to be nice.
I'm going to uplift you.
I want to help you grow as a man, but I can't do that if I can't coach you.

(01:30:00):
So you know, that's, that's the tough part.
You know, coaching pros is even worse because they make too much money.
They already, they already think they know everything.
So at least a college kid, maybe you can help mold, but if you too hard on them, you'll
quit, they'll transfer.
And the portal's open and somebody's going to take them.
So those are the two aspects I'm thinking about.
You know, obviously like I'm big in real estate.

(01:30:21):
You know, I have a few franchises and you know, stuff like that.
So those things kind of flowing already going, you know, I have a good management team and
you know, I kind of keep my flow on that, but I'm trying to, trying to do something
else where I can, you know, have fulfillment of still being around the game, but also where
I can help others.
Like, you know, God gave me a lot of experiences and blessed me with, you know, the platform

(01:30:46):
and the knowledge to not only to know basketball, but to continue to grow it and learn from
so many different countries, different people, different players, you know, 14 years in,
you know, God willing, I can continue to go more, but I just feel like it would be selfish
to me if I didn't find a way to give some of that back.
So that's my plan.
So whether that's through broadcasts and their coaching, we shall see.

(01:31:07):
You know, my wife likes broadcasting better because she thinks I'll be home more.
So, and I have to agree with her.
It does look that way.

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