How to Retire in Panama with Sandra Lohr of Expat Pros Advice

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are you interested in moving toLatin America?

(00:03):
Either to retire there or maybespend a little bit of time there
as a digital nomad or just likeliterally move period?
Then this episode is for youbecause one of the questions, or
one of the countries I shouldsay, that comes up a lot, uh, in
our inbox is Panama.
We talk a lot about Mexico onthe channel because that's where
we happen to be right now, but.

(00:23):
Panama's a contender.
A lot of people are alwayscomparing three countries, well,
four countries.
They're comparing, let's sayfive countries, right?
Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica,Ecuador, and Columbia come up
all the time as countries thatyou guys are interested in.
And today we're gonna beinterviewing one of the experts

(00:44):
that we know in Panama.
Her name is Sandra Lore of ExpatPro's Advice, and she moved to
Panama.
She retired there, but shedidn't like retire and rest on
her laurels.
She actually now helps peoplerelocate to Panama if they are
interested.
She's built a network oflawyers, accountants, you name
it.
To help people more easilytransition, uh, to Panama.

(01:08):
She also happens to be one ofour students in our YouTube
Mastery Workshop where we teachpeople how to use YouTube for
business to generate businessfor their companies.
If you're interested in that.
Go to YouTube masteryworkshop.com so you'll be seeing
more of Sandra on YouTube.
So in this episode, here's whatwe talk about.
We talk about the differentresidencies that are available

(01:30):
in Panama and we talk about whatlife is like in Panama.
And of course we asked Sandraabout her own personal journey
and how she ended up in Panama.
And there's somethinginteresting that happened to her
after she moved, uh, that youguys are gonna be very.
Possibly not surprised to hear,but it might be kind of like,
oh, that's really interestinghow a shift of environment led

(01:51):
to this massive positive changein Sandra's life.
So if this is content thatyou're interested in, make sure
to subscribe and hit thenotification bell.
So you don't want me to.
Single video that we have comingout on this channel.
We got way more interviewscoming out for you guys.
We got a wide network ofentrepreneur expats in our, uh,
digital Rolodex of businesscolleagues.

(02:12):
We are also building networks inmultiple different countries.
For those of you who've beenasking about relocation that
we'll be interviewing as well.
Then in addition to that, wetalk about how to make money
online so you can go anywhere inthe world.
So make sure to subscribe, hitthe notification bell, give this
video a like, and if you'reinterested in helping in having

(02:33):
a location, independentbusiness, or perhaps optimizing
the current business that youalready have so that you can
travel all over the world, thenapply to work with us
below@entrepreneurexpat.com.
Forward slash apply.
Both Justin and I each have over15 years of experience in
digital marketing.
We know a thing or two aboutonline business, and we are more

(02:54):
than happy to help you and pointyou in the right direction.
All right guys, let's get intoit.
Let's go talk about Panama.

Amanda Abella (03:01):
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of
the Entrepreneur XBAT XBATStories series.
I am here with Sandra, who livesin a country that a lot of you
have been asking us about, whichis Panama.
And not only does she live inPanama, she actually helps
people go overseas to Panamawith her network of

(03:22):
professionals.
And she also does some otherreally cool stuff that we're
going to be talking about tohelp you make that move easier.
So thank you so much for beinghere and sharing your story with
us.

Saundra Lohr (03:32):
Well, it's my pleasure.

So, before getting into how you help people
move to Panama and all thatstuff, let's backtrack, because
you were just mentioning to methat you started planning your
move abroad in 2019.
So, what prompted you to startlooking at, okay, I think I need
to move to another country?

Well, actually, I had taken care of my mom for 16
years as her caretaker.
And when she passed away in2015, my anchor wasn't there in
the States anymore.
And I started seriously thinkingabout what life might look like
abroad for me.
And I didn't retire until 2016.

(04:13):
I kind of shifted my practice,my project management practice,
to small business owners.
And nonprofits.
And so I started looking atthings like, what is the
proximity of different countriesto travel to Europe and to the
US?
Uh, what is the GDP look like?

(04:34):
I'm a project manager, so I makea lot of list.
And once I looking, Panama wasat the top of the list and
Mexico.
So I visited both, and inSeptember of 2019, I took a
reconnaissance trip here toPanama, stayed for a month, went
all over the country.
Walked in neighborhoods atdifferent times of the day so I

(04:57):
could see how the character ofthe neighborhood would change.
And then I was able to haveinformed decisions in my pathway
to a final move here to Panama.

So, why did you pick Panama over Mexico?
Because those two end up at thetop of a lot of people's lists.
I mean, they usually have tochoose between the two, and
everybody has different reasons.
So, why did you pick Panama overMexico?

Well, for me, uh, I had spent a lot of time in
Mexico and I love Mexico, butfor me, Panama, having the U S
dollar

Hmm.
Mm

because I don't do currency conversions.
Hey, look, Amanda, I take off myshoes to count to 10.
Okay.
So that was not a good.
Strategy for me having toconvert currency all the time.
And so that was one of thenumber one reasons.

Yeah, that's fair.
A lot of people bring that up.
Uh, that's one of the reasonswhy you have a lot of expats
that go to Ecuador, too, so theydon't have to deal with the
currency conversion.
Funny story.
So, Justin and I just gotmarried, and for the wedding
gifts, we basically had to tellpeople, heh, talk about expat
life, We basically had to tellpeople at number one it don't
give us physical gifts becausewe literally have no room in the

(06:14):
suitcase And we'll have to dealwith taxes and all this stuff
and number two Don't give usphysical cash because then we're
gonna have to go deal with theconversion So just venmo that
shit.
It's basically what we had totell people when we got married
For the wedding gifts because ofthat currency conversion that
you just brought up.

(06:34):
So, um, it's interesting becausewith us, it was a little bit
opposite because normally whencountries are dollarized,
they're like way more expensive.
So for us, we're like, we'regetting a sweet deal over in
Mexico.
And then, you know, you just getused to the currency conversion
or there's apps like.
Y's that make it easy totransfer the money, or you learn
how to deal with the ATMs.

(06:54):
But to your point, that's likeanother hoop to jump through
that a lot of people maybe don'twant to jump through.

Exactly.

Yeah, so it's funny that you bring that up
because we literally had to tellpeople about the currency
conversion at our wedding andnot to give us cash.
Okay, so That's interesting.
You mentioned GDP.
Why were you looking at the GDPof countries?
Because I hear a lot of thingsfrom people on this channel
about what they're looking for,and GDP does not come up very

(07:23):
often, but I respect it.
So why were you looking at GDP?

I'm a project manager, so it's always
important for me to know what'sthe budget.
You know, when I start anyproject, how are you going to
fund and sustain growth ineconomic vitality?
How are you going to take careof your business?
And more importantly, what doestrade and commerce look like and

(07:48):
what are the hurdles?
And, you know, everybody knowsabout the Panama Canal.
And so that was a big winbecause it accounts for a huge
portion of the GDP of thecountry.
And, you know, the other thingto Amanda is Panama has a vast
land area, but there are onlyfour and a half million people

(08:08):
here.

Yeah, are you finding, because this is what
we're finding in Mexico, um, areyou finding that the economy
over there is booming while, forexample, economies in the United
States or Canada or France orGermany are literally crashing
right now?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

you know, part of that is there are over 100
international banks here inPanama, largely to do with the
canal, but tourism, uh, commerceand trade are the engines that
drive economic growth andstability here in the region.
And in fact, Panama is the moststable of all of the Central

(08:46):
America, uh, Central Americancountries.
And, of course, it's verycosmopolitan and very
international, much like MexicoCity.

Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that
either.
Justin's been to Panama, we'vehad friends go visit Panama on
their own missions to see wherethey want to go.
Ultimately, they also choseMexico, but they're like, Panama
City is like, Miami.
Like, it reminds me a lot ofMiami, in a lot of ways, and I'm
like, yeah, there's reallycosmopolitan cities in, in Latin
America.
And I think a lot of theneighbors to the north don't

(09:17):
know that, because we'll get alot of comments for Mexico,
specifically.
They think everything's justlike, deserts and tumbleweeds
and violence everywhere.
And I'm like, no, we have somevery cosmopolitan, high level
international cities in Mexico,and that always shocks people.

And a lot of people don't know that we have a
John Hopkins affiliated hospitalhere in Panama City and a Mayo
Clinic affiliated hospital hereat the Panama Clinic here in
Panama City.
And so a lot of that emergedbecause the U.
S.
was here for such a long time,you know, developing the canal
and so the infrastructure grew.

(09:56):
With their presence and, youknow, so many people moved here,
you know, from the Caribbean,from China, from Canada, from
everywhere, honestly.
And so it is global in that isrepresented here.

Talk about health care for a second, because I
know that's a massive concern,uh, for our audience.
I mean, no one needs to tellanybody twice that health care
in the United States is aproblem.
We also have a lot of Canadianswho complain about their health
care.
They're like, yeah, it's lowcost, but it's trash.
We'd rather go get the qualitycare in Mexico.
For example, we've had a lot ofCanadians tell us that, uh, in

(10:35):
the comments and in theconversations that we're having.
So what is the health care like?
in Panama because I know that'sa big concern for people.

So, for expats, it's a 3rd of the cost of what
he was spent in the US.
1st of all, for doctors visitsfor you team procedures and
actually, um, you can.
Subscribe to a health care planhere for literally pennies on
the dollar.
I'm 69 this year and I pay 127 amonth for a full coverage policy

(11:07):
with a hospital coverage as wellas a doctor's visits.
And I pay 69 a year for cancerpolicy.
And of course I'm very healthyand a cancer free.
So, you know, when you'rehealthy, uh, it's a lot cheaper,
even if you have preexistingconditions though, because I
speak to other expats who dohave preexisting conditions and

(11:30):
they all say how much cheaper itis to not only go to the doctor,
go to the hospital, but ifyou're on a retirement visa,
your prescriptions are 25percent less.
then a normal person would pay.

Oh, we're going to get to visas in a second.
Hold on.
Because I was going to ask youabout that.
Because every country has theirown way of doing visas and I
know that Panama's retirementvisa comes up a lot in the expat
spaces.
But I want to go back a second.
You mentioned something abouthow you're healthy.
Are you finding that it's easierto be healthier in Panama?
Like, generally speaking?

Absolutely.
Uh, the food sources are a lotcleaner environmentally.
Uh, our chickens don't weigh 300pounds because they aren't
pumped full of hormones.
Uh, know, um, uh, pork is lean,chicken is lean.
There's an abundance of fish,obviously with the, you know,
Atlantic on one side and thePacific on the other.

(12:26):
And so, but fresh produce, I canget a pineapple all day long for
1.
50.

how we are with mangoes in Mexico, like mangoes
all day long, or watermelon allday long.
We just came back from spendinga month, um, well, three weeks
in the United States, and whenwe, we know this every single
time we go back, and every expatsays it, but I was making
breakfast for us, and we wereeating the eggs, and I was like,
oh my god, these eggs don'ttaste like Eggs and the fruit

(12:54):
does not taste like fruit thefood in the united states tastes
like nothing Or it tastes verysalty or very sweet because they
have to add so much to it tomake it taste like something

That's

i'm like what on earth is going on here We gained
like 15 pounds just from beingthere like three weeks granted
It was the holidays and we wereindulging as well and honeymoon
But still like if I ate the wayI eat in mexico in the united
states, i'd be like 300 poundsYeah,

of eggs.
I just want everyone to know Iget a dozen eggs here in Panama
for about a dollar 50, two Ohthree.
And if they're cage free, two 59or two 75.
So, you know, our eggs are, are,you know, They're not in a
refrigerated section.
They're across from arefrigerated section, but

(13:49):
they're not in a refrigeratedsection like most U.
S.
eggs are.

yeah, we actually found out why that is.
My husband did.
I think in the United, there'ssome sort of coat that the eggs
have.
And in the United States, theyremove that coat for some
reason.
I don't know why, but forexample, in Latin America, or
we've also interviewed expats inEurope, like in Spain, it's the
same thing that eggs are notrefrigerated and neither is the
milk until you open.

Yes.

then you got to go refrigerate it and people are
like, Whoa, what's going onhere?
And I'm like, yeah, it'sdifferent.
It's cleaner.
They don't mess with it as much.
Um, you know, and do you findand actually don't know this
about Panama City?
Do you find that it's walkable?
Because for example, here inMexico.
Okay.

I don't have a car.
I haven't driven since March of2021.
And so I walk everywhere.
On average, I am walking two orthree miles a day.
And there are two supermarketsin my neighborhood, a park, and
it's something that resembles aboardwalk that's called the
Santa Costera.
It's a little over four mileslong.
It's like a Uh, in the PanamaBay, and that's the main

(14:57):
thoroughfare that people walk toand from, you know, cyclists,
uh, uh, skaters, uh, kids,benders.

Yeah, Latin American cities, uh, and
European cities, and most citiesin the world, actually, have
really good urban planning,which you don't see, like, this,
you'll find this funny, too,like, my husband and I were
walking from my parents house tothe supermarket, and it was,
like, a 20, almost 30 minutewalk, and we're, like, if we
were in Mexico, right, we wouldhave already, in 10 minutes,

(15:30):
here in Mexico, we've alreadypassed, like, Two places, oh no,
three places where we can go getfruit, vegetable, meat, uh,
stuff for smoothies, beans, likewhatever we need to eat and
sustain ourselves, we would havewalked by three of those.
Already in 10 minutes.
And in addition to that, wewould have walked by hair

(15:52):
salons, barber shops.
Um, what else?
There's just so much in theneighborhood.
Dentists, doctors.
Uh, it's just so much more likethe, the neighborhoods are built
in a way where you don't have towalk more than 10 minutes to get
whatever you need,

Yes.

which obviously contributes to the healthy
lifestyle.
We also walk to our gym.
Our gym is a 10, five to 10minute walk.
From the house.
So it's easy.

rises in Panama City have leisure areas,
including gyms and yoga, Pilatesrooms, uh, pools, uh, jacuzzis,
steam room, you know, we have aracquetball court.
I have all of that in mybuilding.

Yeah.
Same with the high rises inMexico.
We live in a house, so it's alittle bit different.
So, but the thing is like, wecan walk to our gym every
morning and it's a non issue.
It's a five minute walk.
And then we're working with ourtrainer and we just come right
back.
So I was curious if it was,that's why I asked, because I'm
like, yeah, expats will tell usthat it's just easier to have a

(16:54):
healthier lifestyle.
outside of the United Statesbecause of the way the cities
are built, because of the foodquality, uh, because healthcare
is more accessible, like youjust don't have to work as hard
at it.

And thus, the stress level is a lot different.
I have not been stressed since Igot moved into my apartment.
April 1st of 2021.
I had been a smoker for 40 yearsby April 5th.
I quit smoking.
Just quit cold turkey, you know,and so because my stress level

(17:26):
just dropped to 0 and, you know,we just are happy, you know,
they, they have a saying here,tranquilo, and it really is

Tranky, tranky, tranky.
Yeah.

Yes,

Yeah, well, congratulations on quitting
smoking.
That's first and foremost.
That's a huge fee.
And number two, um, sometimes,you know, that sounds like
sometimes what we tell people,even in our business coaching
settings, and you'll see that inour YouTube mastery workshop
next week.
Sometimes we have to tell peoplelike, sometimes all you really
need to do in order to changeyour life is just change your
environment.

that's

Like you don't have to go through all these
complicated things.
You just need to change whereyou are.

And part of that is your mental focus.
And so, you know, once youdecide that you're sick and
tired of being sick and tired,then you can actually begin to
formulate a plan and take some,uh, cognitive steps that will
help you reach the goals thatyou aspire to.

We'll swing back around to that in a second
because I know you have veryunique ways of helping your
clients do that who areinterested in Canada, Canada.
Listen to me.
No one's interested in Canadaright now who are interested in
Panama.
Um, so we'll, we'll swing rightback around to that, but I want
to touch on the visasmomentarily.
So what visas are available inPanama for those who are

(18:48):
interested in making Panamatheir new home.

Well, there are several different types of
visas.
Uh, one is the friendly nationsvisa, which allows families with
dependent children under the ageof 18 to move to Panama and to
qualify.
You must either buy a Panamabusiness or create one.
Or be employed in a professionalcapacity for a Panamanian

(19:16):
professional services company.
That guarantees you immediate,permanent residency, the
Friendly Nations Visa.
That's a very, very common one.
The next one is a professionalemployment visa where foreigners
working in a professionalcapacity and paying social
security for those who aren'tyet retired and hold a college

(19:39):
degree and some type ofprofessional license, they can
become a permanent residentafter two years.
and then the Panama businessinvestor visa, uh, requires a
minimum of, I think, about 160,000 dollars in capital stock in

(19:59):
a Panamanian corporation as ashareholder or an officer.
and then there's a remoteworkers visa, and a lot of
people use that, especiallyentrepreneurs

I was gonna ask, yeah.

and take a look.
It's like getting a drive bylook at a country and come for a
while.
And if I hadn't been ready toretire, that's probably the 1
that I would have chosen

How long is, how long is that visa for?
Because we have people of allage, uh, age brackets that
listen to this channel.
So how long is that visa for?

about six months and there are some, there are
some requirements, you know,kind of like a visitor's visa
where you have to leave after acertain amount of time.
And a lot of people will justjump over to Columbia or over to
Costa Rica and then come rightback.
But the good news is Amanda.
We have an attorney on our teamwho handles all of that.
So I don't have to practice lawwithout a license.

(20:56):
I'll just send an email toItaly's Giro is her name and
then introduce the client, ourclient to our team member,
whether it's for real estate orlegal or mental health, and then
they take it from there.

Let's talk about men,

is the

oh,

that I'm here on, which is the pension out of our
retirement visa.
And so for that one, you have tohave a lifetime pension, like
social security of at least 1,000 a month, or you can have.
An annuity pension from aprivate bank, insurance company,
or a trust, and then twohundred, two hundred and fifty

(21:33):
dollars per month for eachdependent.
Uh, so if you're caring for achild who is differently abled,
they are getting some type ofdisability coverage, then that
is factored in to your payment.
You know, your overall visa aswell.
But again, our attorneys arevery fluent in the

yeah.

immigration process.

And this stuff changes all the time.
Yeah, and these things changeall the time, which is why we
tell people, you know, Don't tryand do this yourself without a
lawyer like theoretically.
Yeah, sure you could and youcould figure it out But this
stuff is constantly changingbecause the world is constantly
changing just pay people whereit's like their literal job to
Be on top of all this so youdon't have to worry

and since I've been here, Amanda, Panama, the
government of Panama changed thefriendly nations visa, and then
3 months later, changed it back.

I mean, Mexico's requirements for, uh, temporary
residency and permanentresidency, and I'd be interested
to hear the numbers, just tocompare, and so people can hear
as well, so they can compare.
I mean, it goes up every year,

Yeah,

so, I mean, they're constantly changing the
thing, uh, and I think a lot ofpeople don't realize, and it's
one of the reasons why we tellpeople, look, if you want to go,
start making a plan and startexecuting on it now, because,
you know.
And we've seen this happen wherepeople are like, Oh man, I'm
priced out of Mexico now.
And we're like, yeah, we've beentrying to tell you guys because
everything's constantly changingin the world.

(23:05):
A visa that's available now maynot be available next year and
so on and so forth.
So it's not one of those thingsthat you can like, just sit on
if you're very serious about it,because these things are
constantly changing.
I'm interested in hearing thenumbers so we can compare Mexico
to Panama and again to anybodylistening this stuff is
constantly changing.
So these are just like Ballparknumbers based on the information

(23:28):
that we have available right nowSo for example in Mexico if
you're gonna do I guess theirversion of the pension a low
visa Which is a permanentresidency if you are retired, I
think it's almost 300, 000 thatyou need to have in some sort of
Retirement account or somethinglike that and then how much is

(23:48):
it in Panama?

So there is no set amount that you

Okay.

have in an account.
What you do have to have isproof of a lifetime

Uh,

And so

okay.

Security or Disability Security, uh,
disability program that'soffered through social security
offers that okay now if you'reoutside of the u.
s I don't think that Medicaidand I'm sorry Medicare and SSI
Benefits are the same But we dohave a checklist Amanda that we

(24:24):
have on our website where youcan use a global index And look
at all the countries and whattheir, you know, um, income
requirements are and a lot of,you know, and

Ooh, I love that.

Yes, we have 1 for moving that covers your finance,
how to get your moving, how todo, you know, talk to your
friends and neighbors.
That's part of the mental healthchecklist.
So we have 2 separate digitalproducts that will help people
go through the process and notmiss any details.

One of the things that I love about what you're
doing, um, and I, this isbecause, you know, you ran your
own, you were, you were aproject manager, so I already
know how your brain's working.
Okay.
But it's like, yeah, you know,I'm like retirement age, but I
saw this, like, need in themarketplace, and I'm so gonna
make more money, even though I'mretirement age.
Um, which I think is a reallygood example, because I think

(25:19):
sometimes people think, andthere's nothing wrong with this,
but sometimes people think, Oh,I'm just gonna go to another
country, retire, and like, Idon't know, like, Do nothing
right and I'm like how and maybeit's my age, right?
I'm like, how realistic is thatbut it might also be a
personality

Well, and, and, you know, you, you, you'll get
bored after

Yeah

And so even when I retired in the fall of 2023 from
my management practice, by thenI had started expat pros advice
because I realized that therewere a lot of people on Facebook
getting misinformation.
And being scammed mainly in realestate and in the legal process

(26:02):
So that's what made me decide tovet those professionals take
them through the ringer Put themon a team where I could give
people qualified professionaladvice And so, you know sure you
can do it on your own But we'vetried to shortcut some of those
processes where you spend themost time and that's in your
legal Applications and inacquiring or even renting real

(26:26):
estate

Yeah

the other things, just kind of as we would say in
New Orleans, as a lanyard.
So we have an Airbnb, we havedoctors, dentists, insurance
professionals, a personaldriver.
My personal driver will pick youup from the airport, take you
wherever you need to go.
So we just put a team togetherto cover all the things that I

(26:49):
had to bet on my own when Ifirst came.

Yeah, you guys are listening.
If you're interested in Panama,right, and you have all those
things that you need to figureout and when you were talking
about the, the lawyer and likethe immigration process, it's
funny because I was making ajoke with my family the other
day, uh, because we just gotmarried, we had to get the
marriage license, now we had toget the marriage license
apostled, and now we got to sendthat to immigration, and I was

(27:13):
like, I have spent way too muchtime in government buildings the
last two years.
Because that's just how it is.
When you decide that,

but our lawyers will go with you.
Okay, in fact, I'm doing my ownpersonal last will and
testament.
And so the lawyer on our team isdoing it and has to be
translated into Spanish becauseit's a Spanish speaking country.
So I have to pay for thetranslator and I have to pay for
the notarization of thedocuments and, um, you know, the

(27:45):
legal fees, which are

yeah,

honestly,

it's not that much.

wanted my will to say.
But you do have to have thosethings apostille.
And or notarized, but the goodnews is our attorneys team will
go with you so that you don'thave to worry about translating.
You don't have to worry about.
How do I get there?
It's Uber going to drop me offat the right place.
No, we take you.
We stay with you and make sureyou're good.

And that's fantastic, and, and me as a
fluent Spanish speaker, uh, inMexico, and my husband as a
fluent Spanish speaker, becausehe learned Spanish living in
Colombia, um, We still hadattorneys, right?
And even though, I rememberbeing at the tax office, because
that was a whole other legalthing we had to figure out here.

(28:32):
And, um, I speak Spanishfluently and I still couldn't
understand half of what theywere saying because of like,
jargon or the way the systemworks and you don't know how the
system works.
So, I was telling people, youknow, that I met at the
immigration office last month.
Uh, there were a couple of otherAmericans that our attorney was
working with and they were atthe immigration office as well.

(28:52):
And they were like, oh my god,thank god, I have hired an
attorney to do this.
And I was like, yeah, I speakSpanish and I would still hire.

Yeah,

attorney to do this just because I don't
understand the system in thiscountry

That's exactly right.
And, you know, that's what I wasseeing people get ripped off
because they would take areferral from Facebook.
I'm like, well, what work forone person may not work for
another.
And so, you know, our legal teamis able to do a business for
you, set up a foundation or anonprofit.
If you want to do that here,they specialize in maritime law.

(29:26):
You know, they have 83 differentdisciplines and professionals
with over 100.
40 years of experience on theirlegal team.
And so, you know, I vetted themthoroughly and they've been
working with us consistently andhandling all of our client
referrals.

That's amazing, right if somebody else already
did the work for you just paythem

Yes.

entrepreneurial lesson make money faster lesson
life lesson.
If somebody else already did thework just pay them

Yes.
for the expertise.
You don't go, you know, youdon't look on YouTube to do
heart surgery.
You go find a cardiac surgeonand

So let's, exactly.
So let's talk about somethingvery unique that you have on
your team, because part of whatwe're doing here on Entrepreneur
Expat is, you know, we can helppeople with Mexico.
We know lawyers, real estateagents, all that kind of stuff,
because this is where we're at,right?
So we can do all that stuff forMexico, but obviously people are
interested in a lot of othercountries, uh, Panama being one

(30:27):
of them.
So one of the things that westarted doing is we started
reaching out to people such asyourself who are in other
countries who can help with thatrelocation process so that when
people come to us and they'relike, Hey, I want Panama.
Okay, well, now I know I justsend them over to Zandra, right?
One of the things I like aboutyou is that you have this very
unique aspect.
On your team that quite frankly,I haven't heard a lot of people

(30:48):
talk about and it's extremelyimportant as someone who just,
uh, you know, her whole lifechanged on a dime and she was
moving to another country when Iheard you say this, I was like,
Oh, yeah, that probably wouldhave been helpful because, um, I
think what people don't realizeis even if you move to another
country and you want to move toanother country, I honestly felt

(31:11):
like I went through like anemotional detox for like six
months.
I was so emotional the first sixmonths and we realized I was
kind of like detoxing from whatlife used to be and now my life
is totally different.
I think that's common for mostpeople.
They don't talk about that verymuch.
Everybody just talks about, Oh,it's so great.
It's so amazing.
And it's true, but there's likethis very emotional process that

(31:35):
occurs and you actually havemental health professionals on
your team to help people withthat aspect of the transition.
So can you speak more to that?
Thank you.

Well, I know for myself, I'm an only child.
And once my mother passed away,you know, having a small family,
I didn't have a large extendedfamily.
So it wasn't that much of anemotional toll for me.
But I did reach out to my closefriends and some of my clients
who have become friends.

(32:06):
And I just, you know, walkthrough my mental health process
with them.
That helped me to realize.
That I needed to put thatprofessionalism on my team.
So we have a mental healththerapist on our team, Jennifer
Hippolite.
She started as a child schoolcounselor.

(32:26):
Working with with kids, and thatwas one of the things that I was
immediately attracted to becausewhen you move your whole family,
including your kids or yourgrandkids, they may be going
through some type of stress aswell, because they're leaving
behind their institutions, theirfriends, their network, their
playground, buddies, andwhatever that looks like.

(32:48):
And so I thought it wasimportant for us to have a
licensed mental healththerapist.
our team who could address thoseemotional needs.
And so we have a guide that wehave developed.
That's called reliving and, youknow, we stress that living

(33:10):
abroad is a journey ofdiscovery.
And it allows you to experiencethe world through a lens of
curiosity and transformation,but with that comes some fear
and some anxiety and sometrepidation.
so when we recognize that whenyou uproot yourselves and land
in a different country, you'regoing to learn resilience,

(33:32):
adaptability, and the art ofembracing change, and you're
going to be scared out of yourmind.
While you're doing it properly.
And so reliving will give youthe tools that you need to help
reduce that stress and manageyour mental health and find some
space to just breathe the moveabroad.

(33:53):
And so our team handles theentire move, the emotional part.
The legal part, the financialpart, which is banking and real
estate, so that you can justfocus on, Oh, I want to go hug a
sloth or I want to go to monkeyisland or whatever that looks
like.
And so we will help you assess,explore, discover, and then take

(34:17):
inspired action because, youknow, you have the tools to make
the move.

That is so good, because, you know, we'll have a
lot of conversation, well, fortwo reasons, right?
Number one, it's kind of what Isaid.
Like, I think moving is one ofthe top three most stressful
things in someone's life.
I think it's moving, a death inthe family, and public speaking.
Um, and, so, if moving acrosstown is stressful, imagine
moving to another country, andadd the level of stress.

the

you don't speak the language, you don't know the
system, you're adapting, you'relearning things, and on top of
that, it's like I said, in mycase, you know, I was so
stressed out living in theUnited States that it's, I went
through like a whole detox kindof a thing, and it took my
husband about six months tofigure out why I was so
emotional and what I was goingthrough.
He's like, oh my god, you'redetoxing.
Because you were so stressed forso many years that now your body

(35:12):
is just like releasing, um, allthis stuff.
And we did have therapists andshamans and things like that
that we worked with and, youknow, they would check in on us.
And they're like, hey, are youguys okay?
Because like moving to a wholeother country, that's like not a
small thing.
Right?
Are you guys okay?
Um, so to your point, you know,I think it's great for that
reason because even if somebodydoes want to move abroad, I To

(35:33):
your point, trying to navigatethings in another country is
stressful in and of itself.
Even if it's good change, it'sstill change, and that tends to
stress us out.

Amen to that.
you know, thank God I had theskills of a project manager, so
I was used to handling conflicton teams, and I just applied all
of my education and knowledge tomy own project, because moving
abroad is a project.
And once I started to treat itlike a project, then I was able
to use all this knowledge andall these books and things that

(36:06):
I have on project management toreally develop my checklist.
And my sticky notes and youknow, all the things so I can
say, thank goodness.
It was seamless.
Yes.

and the second reason why I think that's a
really great idea is becauseWe'll talk to a lot of people,
right, who say they want to moveabroad, they can't stand life in
the United States or Canadaanymore, for whatever reason, or
Europe, or insert country here,for whatever reason, it's not
for them, and they want to gosomewhere else, and I think for
a lot of people, it still islike this wish, right, it's

(36:42):
still like this dream, but noone's actually executed because
they're too scared.
To actually take the steps toactually do it.
So I think in that case, youknow, if you're saying you want
this thing really bad and I'mbringing like our business
coaching experience into thisbecause we'll see it with
clients sometimes, you know whatI mean?
Where it's like you say that youwant this thing and you say you
want it really bad, butsomething's holding you back

(37:05):
from actually doing the damnthing and getting the result.
And in those cases, sometimesit's not about.
Working harder, doing the damnthing.
Sometimes in those cases, it'sgoing to get, you know, the
assistance of some sort ofmental health professional to
figure out why they're sabotageor why there's no execution or
what's actually going on there.

(37:25):
Because sometimes it's deeperthan what it looks.

And so that's why we, we help all of our clients
to Segregate their wants fromtheir needs and then once we're
able to do that, then we focuson what they want and we check
that off.
And then we focus on what theyneed and we check that off.
And a lot of people, once theysee what they need, they have a

(37:50):
different assessment of whatthey want

Yeah.

come first.

Mm, that's really smart.
I could see all the projectmanagement stuff coming out like
all the structure and all thelists and I could totally see
it's a good skill to have.
So,

And you know, when you, when you get off the plane
and my personal driver's thereholding up your card with your
name on it and you go to yourhotel and we help you, you know,
curate an itinerary.
So, you know, then you can justrelax because you know, what
time you're going to meet withthe lawyer.
You know, when the real estateperson is going to come and show
you some apartments, you know,the best restaurants and things

(38:37):
and the amenities and theshopping.
And, and so, you know, youreally can be like on vacation,
but it's a fact findingvacation.

right, and you know you're taken care of,

Yes.

you know, like everything's

of it.

You know, you're taking care of and you don't
have to stress about a bunch ofextra stuff, or at least the
stress has been minimized asmuch as humanly possible.
Um, what advice do you have forpeople who are on this channel
who are still in that dreamingwishing phase, but not in the
execution phase?
And the reason why I ask isbecause as a project manager and
someone with so much projectmanagement experience, your
whole MO is execution andhelping other people execute.

outcome.

Yes.
So what's your advice for thosepeople who are stuck in the
dreaming, but they're notactually, uh, executing?

Well, actually, for those people, we publish two
free, we publish a freenewsletter every quarter.
I've got the winter edition,which is currently out, and the
fall edition.
And in both newsletters, I giveyou a glimpse of our team.
I talk about housing.
I talk about medical costs.
I talk about specificneighborhoods.

(39:44):
Uh, I talk about some of thesites and some of the things.
So, the way that I started out,I read everything I could get my
hands on.
Um, and so I would advise peopleto, you know, align themselves
with information that's beenverified.
Uh, look at the embassy sitesfor the country that you're

(40:05):
interested in.
Uh, go to our site and get ournewsletter so that you, you
know, have at least some of thethings that are most typically
asked when someone'scontemplating a move abroad.
And then do, do the research, dothe work.

Okay.
Also, question, this is basedoff of my business coaching
experience.
What do you say to the peoplewho've been researching,
researching, researching?
They know all the things, butthey're still, they're stuck in
that researching phase.
There's still no, like, actuallydoing the thing.

Well, you have to take a step.
Whether that step is to call anembassy and set an appointment
with an embassy official overthe phone or go to your local
consulate and see what theapostille process looks like, go
ahead and get your FBIbackground check, get your

(41:00):
passport, make sure you have acopy of your birth certificate,
a letter from your bank thatsays that you banked there.
I mean, just do something, pickone thing.
And do that 1 thing, and thenthe next day, pick 1 other thing
or develop a list and just godown and check off the things as
you do them.
But at some point, you have totake action.

(41:22):
And that's why we say that inour reliving process, after we
assess and explore and discover,we inspire action and whether
that is.
Well, this requirement is goingto change in six months, so you
might want to do this now.
Whatever that looks like so thatyou aren't in this perpetual

(41:42):
cycle of indecision.

That's so good, because I think what gets most
people stuck is that perpetualcycle of indecision, where it
seems like this giant,overwhelming thing.
I'm lucky, I had my husband,he'd been doing the expat thing
for ten years, and he'd done itin different countries, so like,
to him, it's like, easy.
He's like a pro at it, but ifyou don't have that, Then,
taking that one step, that oneaction, every single day, that's

(42:10):
what's really gonna make thedifference over time.
And I think the important thinghere is, is the urgency.
Right?
Because as we were sayingearlier, everything's constantly
changing.
Uh, this is not one of thosethings that just stays the same
from one year to the next.
You could be interested in onecountry today and then next year

(42:31):
it's out of reach.
For whatever reason, becausethey changed a visa or whatever.
So I would say use that urgencyto your advantage.
Cause I think what happens topeople sometimes is they don't
realize just how much all thesethings change and how variable
all of this is at all times.
Because a lot of people don'trealize, and this is like a
little joke that I have, uh,we're all extras in a giant game

(42:55):
of risk.
That all the countries areplaying globally.
And when all these leaders ofall these countries are playing
risk, because that's whatthey're doing, every single one
of them, uh, that trickles downand affects things like visa
process and requirements, andthings like that.
Look at all the immigrationinsanity going on, you know,

(43:15):
ever since the United States nowgot, Uh, new leadership, uh,
which could affect, you know,immigration situations in other
countries, you know?
So, because we're always extrasin a game of risk, then you
don't really have the luxury tojust sit around and wait.

And that's why in our name, expat pros advise.
Because we're going to empoweryou to make an informed decision
because irrespective of whereyou're thinking about moving,
the checklist really stays thesame.
Hire a lawyer, look at the realestate market, look at the

(43:54):
economy.
And so that's why we providesome global index links and
things like that.
So that no matter where you'relooking, because, you know,
Mexico and Panama may be at thetop, but people are looking at
Portugal.
They're looking at Spain andthey're looking at Croatia.
And in fact, I'm going on acruise in June to Oslo and

(44:14):
Copenhagen and Latvia andLithuania.
I've never been to EasternEurope, but I want to go and see
so that I can advise people onwhat I've found.

Yeah, Eastern Europe, my, my husband's
Ukrainian on one side, so he'slike, I gotta wait for things to
calm down over there in EasternEurope with the war right now,
but once that's settled He'slike, I have to take you to
Eastern Europe.
Like, Eastern Europe isbasically like, Western Europe's
great, but it's kind ofoverrated.
Eastern Europe is what's reallyinteresting, is what he tells

(44:45):
me.

go.
That's

Yeah.

to go, because, um, I have been to Western
Germany, but I'm going to flyinto Berlin

Yeah.

from Rostock, Germany.

Yeah, he's excited to one day, when things
calm down over there, take me toUkraine, where his family's
from, and Eastern Europe, andall that kind of stuff.
He loves Eastern Europe.
Eastern Europe and most peoplethat I know who've gone to
explore Eastern Europe say thesame thing.
They're like, Western Europe'scool and all, right, but kind of
overrated

And I've

in comparison.

We've all been so many times.
We've done Rome and we've doneSpain and, you know, in May, I
was in Portugal, Spain, Italyand France and Sardinia.
So, you know, I mean, how manytimes can you do that?

Right, how many times can you do that same like,
uh, I'm thinking of the word inSpanish, um, English word,
English word, what is it, route,route?
How many times are you going todo that same route before you're
like, hey, I would likesomething a little bit
different?
Uh, Yeah, something differentthat's still European, but like
a different flavor of European.

(45:51):
And as someone married to anEastern European, I can attest
to the fact that Eastern Europeis definitely a different flavor
than Western Europe, butEuropean the same.
Alright, thank you so much forbeing here and sharing your
story and having done all thiswork for people who are
interested in Panama.
We'll make sure to have all thelinks to everything.

(46:12):
Uh, below.
So whether you guys areinterested in the reliving
process or you're like, Hey, I'mready to go to Panama.
I've been thinking about it fora while.
Hey, I'm going to go hire herbecause why would I make this
more difficult for myself when Icould just hire Sondra?
So thank you so much for cominghere and sharing all this
valuable.
Information with people becauseit can get very confusing out

(46:36):
here.
One final question.
Actually, I didn't think aboutasking you this because we've
been asking a lot of peoplethis.
I know you've got lawyers inPanama, but can you?
Because this is something thatcomes up with us a lot,
especially the entrepreneurialones on the investors, which is
how do I set up my tax situationin the United States for when
I'm abroad?

So, one of the things that Panama is very
widely known for is that if you,your business is based in the U.
S.
and you live here, you are notdoubly taxed.
In other words, you just paytaxes in the U.
S.
And if I were still in mybusiness, my schedules would
have schedules because I'd stillbe writing off everything that I

(47:19):
could, especially given the newadministration's focus to raise
taxes on working class peopleand business owners.
So, if you live here.
And your business is located inthe U.
S.
You do not pay taxes here inPanama on that money.
Okay.
Now, if you decide to set up anaffiliate or an extension of

(47:41):
your business here, that's whereour lawyer and her tax.
Because she has economists onher team, you know, and, and
once you go to our website,you'll be able to go to her law
firm and see all of thedifferent disciplines that she
is able to offer an aspiringexpat advice on.
So we got you covered, you know,our saying is we're expat pros

(48:04):
advice and we're here to help.

That's really good, because I think a lot of
American expats don't realizehow complicated the U.
S.
tax system is until they'retrying to not live there anymore
and they're still getting taxed.

Yes.
Yes.

And then they're like, oh snap, and I'm like,
yep, there's a whole process togo through in the United States
and then picking the rightcountry so that it doesn't mess
you up in taxes.

That's exactly right.

Yeah, that's a very shocking surprise to a lot
of people, unfortunately.
Uh, sometimes, because the U.
S.
has citizenship based taxation,not residency based taxation, so
I'm happy to hear that there'speople on your team who can help
with that, because that, thatcan get a little complicated.

Yes.
Yes, and fortunately for me, Iwas retiring and with expat pros
advices based in the US, butthere's no fee for my services.
You pay the attorney, you paythe real estate firm, and they
pay me a small permission.
So there is no upfront cost tointeract with me, unless you
want to buy our digitalchecklist, and they are very

(49:08):
under 20.
And then our reliving e courseis gonna, I haven't priced it
yet, but I think it's going tobe around the 39.
99 area because I'm not doingthis to get rich.
I'm doing this to help people sothat they don't get scammed.
And you know, the lawyer, it'sincumbent on her to pay me a
small commission and the realestate firm so that our clients

(49:31):
aren't spending a bunch of moneywith me.
You know, they're spending undera hundred dollars for all of our
tools and they work together.
Congruently, and then work withthe professionals.
And then if they choose not towork with our lawyer, okay,
fine, you know.

We're going to help you make a lot of ebook
sales and, uh, backroomcommissions, right?
With our YouTube masteryworkshop, because I foresee this
just taking off

Well,

in the next few years, and we're going to we're
going to help you capitalize onthat for sure.

Well, it's going to

To

to continue working with you.
I look forward to all the goodthings that we're going to be
able to do together.
So that the expat journey is notso scary.
It's not the scary house.
It's the fun house.

It's super fun.
It's super fun.
It's why I always tell people,like, out of all the
entrepreneurial projects we do,and the channels we have, and
the digital marketing we do, wework primarily with business
owners on their marketing andsales.
And yeah, sure, thoseconversations are fun.
We love to teach people likeyou, you know, how to really set
up their YouTube channels sothat their businesses become

(50:36):
easier.
Love it, right?
But, our favorite content tocreate is the expat content,
because it's the most fun.

Yeah.
All

It just changes your whole perspective on life
and you get to have reallyinteresting conversations like
this one.
Alright guys, so we will havethe information for everything
below.
Um, is there anywhere that theycan reach out to you directly,
just your website?
Or do you have an Instagram,Facebook, any of that stuff?

of those.
And so if they just Google expatpros advice, our website comes
up and then at the bottom of ourhomepage or links to all of our
profiles and Instagram and ticktock and all of that, we'd love
for people to subscribe andfollow us.
And, um, you know, just, uh,when, when you go to our
website, the pop up comes up tosign up for the free newsletter,

(51:27):
do that first because that willgive you a real telescopic point
for Of what life in Panama islike.

I love it.
I love it when people are thisthorough and do the work.
I particularly love it becauseit's not necessarily my strong
suit.
It's definitely more myhusband's strong suit than mine.
Uh, that structure and thatproject management part of
things.
So when I meet other people.
Where that is their strong suit.
I have so much respect for itbecause me as someone where i'm

(51:59):
more of like the creative Likewhoo, you know, like I just got
an idea and i'm going and let'sgo right.
Um, sometimes we really needthat structure

Well, my whole life is process groups and
knowledge areas, you know,that's, that's, that's my Bible
to living life and, and nothaving pitfalls and stumbles
and, you know, poor budgetingand all the things that can
happen when you don't have asolid plan and follow your plan.

Thank you so much for being here So excited to
help you get your YouTubechannel going and then also
drive traffic from this foryears to come For those who are
interested in Panama guys,seriously if you're interested
in Panama Just make your lifeeasy Reach out to Sandra.
This does not need to be harderthan is necessary Make it easy

(52:51):
for yourself by reaching out topeople who've already done the
hard work For you.
Thank you so much for beinghere, everyone, and we will
catch you on the next one.

Thank you so much, Amanda.
Bye now.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How to Retire in Panama with Sandra Lohr of Expat Pros Advice

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

How to Retire in Panama with Sandra Lohr of Expat Pros Advice

24/7 News: The Latest