November 21, 2025 • 32 mins
Moving Abroad Resources:
👉 Moving Abroad Relocation Roadmap Guidebook that walks you through the five phases of moving abroad ($27): https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/relocate
👉 Moving Abroad Relocation Blueprint Course which offers step by step guidance on everything from choosing the right country to immigration to taxes and everything in between: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/blueprint
👉 Want us to handle the details of your move abroad? Apply for our white-glove relocation services here: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/consult
👉 Free Moving to Mexico Guide: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/mexico
👉 Free Moving Abroad Checklist: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/abroad
Remote Work and Online Income Resources:
👉 Expat Income Accelerator course which shows you the multiple ways you can make money globally based on our 15+ years of experience in online business, investing internationally and living in multiple countries: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/income
👉 Get Your First High Paying Client Online Bootcamp which walks you through the first four foundational steps of creating and monetizing an online business based on 15+ years of experience in online business: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/firstclient-yt
👉 YouTube Mastery Workshop which shows you how we’ve built two YouTube channels that bring clients and passive income from digital course sales (including turning Entrepreneur Expat into a six-figure business in six months): https://www.YouTubeMasteryWorkshop.com
👉LinkedIn Mastery Workshop which shows you how to use LinkedIn to find remote work, clients and connect with recruiters based on Justin’s experience building a six-figure business and finding remote work on LinkedIn: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/linkedin
👉 Free Make Money From Anywhere Guide: https://www.entrepreneurexpat.com/money-guide
V I D E O S T O W A T C H N E X T :
Online Business Tips to Working and Traveling In Mexico: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zGH0voCyOc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j&index=2
Moving to Mexico: 10 Reasons Why We Chose to Live in Guadalajara https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK23vD8_xjc&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_LAY7UV78YMgms-f2e1UcwN&index=23
Tips for Moving Overseas: Top 5 Remote Work Skills That Make Money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFzjCrlNAL8&list=PLh3xKhkMgH_IA6s3KvB_g9Cc9Ze1eji8j
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Inquiries: community@entrepreneurexpat.com
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#livinginmexico #movingtomexico #digitalnomad #makemoneyonline #expatsinmexico #digitalmarketingtraning #geoarbitrage #moveoverseasfromus #digitalmarketingcourse #guadalajara #costoflivingmexico #digitalnomadvisa #digitalnomadnews #workandtravel #locationindependentlifestyle #locationindependentbusiness #locationindependententrepreneur #locationindependentbusinesses #locationindependentbusinessideas #secretsoflocationindendentbusiness #howtobecomeadigitalnomad
Disclaimer: The information in this video should not be considered tax, financial, investment, or any kind of professional advice. Only a professional diagnosis of your specific situation can determine which strategies are appropriate for your needs. Entrepreneur Expat can and does not provide advice unless/until engaged by you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Toni Schilling (00:36):
And a lot of those people are working remote
right now, and they do not wannago back to an office.
And it is very hard to findremote roles right now because
those remote roles, not only arethey few and far between,
they're probably gonna pay alittle less because you're
getting the benefit of beingremote, and you're not having to
move to, Bay Area or New York orSeattle to take on those roles
(00:57):
at these tech companies.
Once you find remote rules, ifyou're able to get into one,
there usually are somestipulations around that,
depending on, on the company.
Uh, so I personally haveinterviewed with some companies
that they have clauses in theircontracts with their clients
that state they will not haveemployees logging into their
(01:17):
systems from certain regionsbecause they're high risk.
Justin Keltner (01:25):
Today we are here with Tony Shilling and
she's gonna talk to us a littlebit about the situation of
remote work.
I'm really happy to be joined byTony, who's actually joining us
today from Albania.
She's an expat out thereoriginally from the US and she
is a world class recruiter thatwanted to escape the west.
(01:46):
And, uh, find better places tolive and work and travel from
while maintaining her career asa technical recruiter.
So Tony, I'd love it if youcould just tell our audience a
little bit about you and how yougot to Albania For sure.
And, and how you got into doingwhat you're doing.
Toni Schilling (02:03):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So, um, I, I grew up inLouisiana, went to college in
Texas, found my way to Coloradoand spent seven years there.
And while I was in Colorado, um.
Was doing SaaS sales and foundmy way into recruiting for SaaS
sales for uh, tech startupcompanies, and really loved it
and worked my way into remoteroles, uh, working remote.
(02:27):
I had the option to really workfrom anywhere and cost of living
in Colorado is high.
So when my son graduated highschool back in 2022, I decided
that I was.
gonna take my passport and setoff and go travel the world and
work remotely and see what Icould see.
And so that led me to, uh,taking my first trip outside the
(02:49):
country and ended up in Mexicofor my first six weeks, staying
close to home in case anythingwent wrong.
And then, uh, just looked forthe cheapest flight to Europe on
the Google flights.
where function and the cheapestflight from Cancun to Europe was
Tiranë Albania, and that's how Iended up in Albania.
I've traveled 15 differentcountries since then, but always
(03:11):
come back to Albania because itfeels like a great place to post
up for six to eight months, uh,getting outta the Schengen zone
and just somewhere that'sfamiliar and really chill when
it's not the high season.
So yeah, back in Albania.
Justin Keltner (03:25):
Great.
I'm curious, what do you love somuch about Albania?
Because as I mentioned earlier,my wife and I are actually
exploring going there forpotentially six months, a year
or maybe more, and looking atgetting our.
A residency there to have in ourback pocket and also just to
spend at least part of the yearin Europe.
What are, what are your favoriteparts about Albania that, you
love?
Toni Schilling (03:45):
Yeah, you, you find so many Americans here is
Americans get a year visa freein Albania.
So we just show up and we canstay for an entire year.
If you wanna come back, it'sjust out 90 days and back for an
entire year.
And so it's really easy.
It's not part of the shein zone.
You don't have to worry aboutthe 90 days in, 90 days out
every six months.
(04:05):
Um, and the people here areamazing.
There's very much a community.
Feel, um, it's still very, um,easygoing, laid back like you
might find in, in Italy orSpain, but not as crowded, not
as expensive, and.
The southern part of Albania isbeautiful.
(04:28):
The coastline is beautiful.
Where I am in am in Soranda,it's great down in Samil, you've
got Hamar just up the road.
And then Flora and Doris arealso really popular spots along
the coast because looks likeGreece, but it's half the price.
Um, but yeah, uh, lots of expatshere, thriving expat communities
and so you have plenty of peopleto interact with if you wanna be
(04:48):
social.
Um, but yeah, it's been a greatplace to post up.
Justin Keltner (04:52):
Amazing.
And how is remote work for youfrom there?
Because in addition to theremote job scene, which we're
gonna get into in a minute, alot of our followers are asking
us things like, what is it like?
To work from differentcountries, and in fact, there's
a lot of rumors, and maybe thesewere true in the past, but
things like Albania is dangerousor there's no infrastructure
(05:13):
there, or the power goes out allthe time, or they're communist.
I mean, I'm curious what yourthoughts are on some of that.
Toni Schilling (05:20):
it's actually crazy.
So, um, Albania has a, a verygood relationship with America,
and so Americans are extremelywelcome here, here in Saron.
There's even like a HillaryClinton Gardens and they
celebrate 4th of July.
And you on flag day, likeAlbanian Flag Day, they fly the
American flag right next to theAlbanian flag.
And, and they're just friendlypeople.
(05:42):
And I do not feel safer in anyother country than I ever have
in Albania.
This is one of the Safestplaces.
Um, like I said, it's verycommunity oriented, so you see
children just out playing, youknow, on the beach or with each
other, and all the parents arelooking out for all the
children.
Um, if you drop your purse atthe bus station and you go back
(06:03):
five hours later, someone willhave picked that up and either
taken it to the police station.
Or they have it there waitingfor you to come back.
Um, that actually happened to afriend of mine.
As soon as she got here, a taxidriver found the purse.
I went back to look for it.
He said, oh, my friend has takenit to their home.
They are going to the policestation with it, but let me take
you to his home.
And he walked me to this guy'shouse and he came out to give me
(06:25):
the purse.
And I was like, oh, please letme, you know, give you some type
of reward or something.
And he was not having it.
He was like, no, no, no, no,this, just very glad I could get
this back to you.
And so passports, money.
Credit cards, nothing wastouched.
It's, it's just a safe and aneasy place to be.
Justin Keltner (06:43):
That's very cool.
And some of those things soundreally similar to Mexico, like
the family friendly nature andall that.
And we're gonna have to doanother conversation where we
dive a little bit more intoAlbania as well.
Um, but that's, that's reallygood to know.
And internet has been prettysolid so far.
No issues with any of thatinfrastructure wise.
Toni Schilling (07:02):
so to and from cities and, and you're not gonna
find, um, red lights andcrosswalks and things like that
here.
It's, it's too small for that.
Here where I am in Sarda, youwill find that in sorana bus
systems or everywhere.
It's, there's not a train systemthat runs through Albania like
you would find in, in most partsof Europe, but the bus systems
(07:24):
are great.
You're always gonna be able toget a bus to different cities.
I've taken the bus from Taranato Montenegro before.
I have friends that have gonefrom, um, Tarana to Bulgaria on
the bus system.
Um, flights.
There's going to be a, a newairport being built in velo,
which is great.
Um, there is an airport in TaraToronto, and then where I am in
Sarada, it's a 30 minute ferryride over to Corfu, Greece,
(07:46):
where there's also an airport.
Um, so really easy to get aroundas far as infrastructure goes.
Um, and you're always able toget a bus.
Somewhere.
Um, you can take private taxis,they're everywhere as well.
Um, so you're not gonna be, youknow, left stranded anywhere.
If you are just knock on a door,someone's gonna help you, I
promise.
Um, as far as internet goes and,and apartments, there are so
(08:08):
many new apartments being builthere because they are growing
and so the modernization ofAlbania is.
Happening extremely rapidly, uh,since they opened the borders, I
don't know, 20, 25 years ago.
And so you're gonna be able tofind very Western style
apartments.
You'll also be able to find verytraditional apartments for much
lower prices, even a little bitfurther out of town.
(08:31):
Um.
But the internet has been great.
Uh, power outages.
I haven't had any issues withpower outages the way here in
the summer.
Sometimes that happens.
Um, but the internet is a greatspeed.
They'll offer to upgrade it foryou.
If you're staying in an Airbnband it's not enough, great.
They can go and get thatupgraded.
It's no problem.
Justin Keltner (08:48):
That's good to hear.
Amazing.
So let's.
Dive into one of the most commonquestions that we get from a
segment of our audience that arelooking to work remotely.
In some cases, they still haveenough money to retire and even
invest, but they're like, I, Istill want to keep working.
Or maybe they do need a littlebit of an extra source of
income.
You work a really with, with UScompanies, right?
(09:08):
Perhaps European companies aswell, or are they mainly in the,
in the us.
Toni Schilling (09:13):
mostly us.
Justin Keltner (09:14):
Okay.
And what are you seeing as faras just.
The trends around remote workoverall.
I know you do a lot of remoteroles, but are they really
remote or are they requiringpeople still to be in a certain
country or not be in othercountries?
Give us the entire, just lowdown of that.
Toni Schilling (09:35):
I work specifically with tech startups
and in the startup world thereis a trend of.
teams back in offices and havingthe team in office and building
a culture in office.
Um, and I'm, I'm not sure howsuccessful that's going to be,
because usually when startupsare hiring people, they're, they
(09:56):
need to hire the best of thebest that.
To come in that already knowswhat they're doing to help build
out teams.
And a lot of those people areworking remote right now, and
they do not wanna go back to anoffice.
Uh, so you'll have maybe someremote roles.
A lot of engineering roles aregonna re remain remote.
Most of those were remote priorto COVID and, and other roles
(10:17):
going remote.
Um, but a lot of your salesroles, your corporate roles,
your G-N-G-N-A roles, they'recoming back into office.
they believe that.
You know, people work betterwhen they're face to face.
Don't know how true I, I buyinto that.
I'm not a, I'm not a hugeadvocate for that because I get
distracted very easily and I'mvery unproductive in an office.
(10:40):
But it is a trend and it is veryhard to find remote roles right
now because those remote roles,not only are they few and far
between, they're probably gonnapay a little less because you're
getting the benefit of beingremote, um, and you're not
having to move to, um.
Bay Area or New York or Seattleto take on those roles at these
tech companies.
(11:00):
so.
Once you find remote rules, ifyou're able to get into one,
there usually are somestipulations around that,
depending on, on the company.
Uh, so I personally haveinterviewed with some companies
that they have clauses in theircontracts with their clients
that state they will not haveemployees logging into their
systems from certain regionsbecause they're high risk.
(11:23):
Most of those are
Justin Keltner (11:24):
interesting.
Toni Schilling (11:26):
PHI, um, they're gonna be DCI, uh, um.
Compliant, they're going to holdvery sensitive data.
Um, and, and they just don'twant to get out.
They don't want your computer tobe left open in a cafe and
something to happen, or youweren't using a VPN or the
security you were supposed to beusing.
So that can
Justin Keltner (11:47):
if that couldn't happen in the US right.
Toni Schilling (11:51):
Yeah.
That's
Justin Keltner (11:52):
Yeah.
Toni Schilling (11:54):
the US.
Companies are very adamant thatbeing outside of the US is a
risk.
I would disagree, but they ownthe company, so we have to abide
by what they want.
And if you want a remote job andthey require you to be in the
us, you're gonna have to stay inthe US if you want that.
Um, very few companies are goingto be open.
To the possibility of you beingoutside of the us, um, if
(12:17):
they're following principles ofleast access.
If you have a role that doesn'tneed access into sensitive
customer data, sensitiveproduct, data sensitive employee
data, then they shut off youraccess to all those things and
you're able to just access thethings that you need.
Or if they have entities inother countries.
Um, so you have companies likeOster and Deal that are global
companies.
They have, help other companiesget entities and companies where
(12:40):
they can hire in those places.
Like I said, I, move aroundenough where I'm not a resident
of any one country, so I'm stillconsidered a US resident.
I am not having to have benefitsof any one country and, and
becoming a resident there.
It doesn't mess with the taxesfor the company.
And so those are things thatyou'll have to think about as
well because if you do reside inanother country, um, and you're
(13:01):
trying to get a US job.
probably best to get it beforeyou leave and, and go somewhere
else.
And then make sure that you'restill considered that US
resident and have a US addressand US bank account.
if you don't have that, a lot oftimes it's a no go for
companies.
Justin Keltner (13:19):
Now you mentioned that some of these
company.
Is actually will have like four,either foreign hiring entities
where maybe they're goingthrough some type of payroll
organization or something likethat, or they've got branches
already in that company and theycould essentially hire you in
that other country.
Do you see that they're payingthe same wages as they would a
remote worker, let's say inCalifornia?
(13:40):
Or are they also makingadjustments based on the country
that you're in?
What does that look like?
Toni Schilling (13:45):
will, um, geo adjust for where you're at.
Some companies won't.
The big thing with that is ifyou are residing in that country
and you are a resident in thatcountry, you have to be legally
employable in that countrybecause they would be hiring you
in that country and so you haveto become a legal resident.
(14:05):
You can't just be on a touristvisa there and, and try to have
a job within that country hiredthrough with that country.
Justin Keltner (14:14):
What I'm hearing there and tell me if this sounds
like it's correct, but youactually not just have to have
that visa, but you probably arealso required to have a work
authorization because to yourpoint, the big multinational
companies, uh, or even large UScompanies that maybe do have a,
another hiring entity or branchor whatever, that could
potentially hire you and bewilling to take on that risk
because they, they've got peopleon the ground there.
(14:37):
best case scenario, they mayvery well adjust your wage to
the salaries in that country,which means your entire
arbitrage play.
Of living, you know, living inpesos or in Albanian, what is
it?
Le there, Albanian le and thenearning in, in dollars.
It's kind of gone out the windowbecause now you're competing
with the locals, uh, in theirmarketplace in terms of like
(14:59):
what you're earning and able tospend.
But more importantly, you wouldhave to be competing with them
essentially for those jobs.
Uh, and the government doesn'twant that.
The government is not going toissue you.
A work authorization.
Now in Mexico, it's a little bitmore lenient, uh, although by
the letter of the law, when yourenew your temporary residence
here, you do need to say thatyou are still qualified on the
(15:21):
same authorization that you camein on, which is you're making
money from outside of Mexico.
Sometimes they will give you aremote authorization, and
that's.
Especially true if, for example,you are, you know, you wanna
start like a business in Mexicoand hire yourself or something
like that.
Um, but in Europe, I mean, I, I,I'm almost a hundred percent
sure when I was researching thismyself, that Albania does not
(15:43):
allow you to work in thatcountry at all.
You have to have all of yourincome coming in from remote
sources.
And even if they did allow youto work, you're, you're now.
Also getting into their tax net,which is relatively high if your
income isn't from overseas.
So it's, it's kind of a, adamned if you do, damned if you
don't sort of thing, isn't it?
God
Toni Schilling (16:01):
the, around that would probably be to take on 10
99 positions and be like a soleproprietor or have your own
business that you are, arebilling as a 10 99 employee on a
contract.
Um, because then you could haveyour, your business entity could
be anywhere really.
And then you're billing them inUS dollars and they're
Justin Keltner (16:20):
filling the company that you're working for.
And is that like a viableworkaround, like when you're
looking at positions that youhave available?
Do they tend to allow you, Imean, I know that's a
workaround, um, but how do, howdo those corporations actually
look at it, whether it's astartup or whether it's a, a
larger enterprise?
I mean, are they open to thateven,
Toni Schilling (16:42):
I haven't found that in a lot of cases, unless
they are looking for a very,very skilled person and they
really want the skills that thatperson has, they would be
willing to do a 10 99 for.
Them.
Um, otherwise
Justin Keltner (16:55):
gonna, yeah, I.
Toni Schilling (16:57):
a, it their because they really want someone
that's gonna be.
On, on board with the missionand a part of the team and
really driven by the company.
And if you're, if you're just ona contract that's very
temporary, doesn't feel verypermanent, it doesn't feel very
bought in, especially in thestartup world.
So there aren't gonna be a lotof companies that are switching
when they have a full-time roleopen, switching it to a contract
(17:21):
role unless you are very, veryskilled at something.
Justin Keltner (17:26):
That makes a lot of sense.
And, and that's, that's whatI've seen as well as we've been
talking with people that havebeen applying for jobs.
They really, they don't want tobe flexible.
And by the way, another thingI'll add, and you're, you've.
Probably seen this as well whenpeople are trying to work from,
from other countries or even inyour own personal experience.
But if you're getting a W2income, not only are you paying
(17:49):
federal income tax and all that,but you're also paying tax in
whatever state that company hasyou registered in potentially.
And especially if that's a hightax state like California or New
York, you're losing half thebenefits of spending all of the
time outside of the us You're,you're almost paying as if you
were living in the US full time.
Toni Schilling (18:09):
if you were outside of the US for 330 days,
within a 12 month period.
You qualify for the foreign,foreign earned income exclusion,
even if you are being paid by aUS company.
And so you are excluded fromfederal taxes, not Medicare and,
and social security, but federaltaxes, um, as long as you are
(18:31):
outside of the country for thatamount of time within a 12 month
period, state taxes you wouldstill be responsible for.
But if you put your permanentaddress in a state with no state
taxes, like a Florida or aTexas.
you don't have the state taxesas well.
So staying outside the countryfor that amount of time, 330
days out of a 12 month period,and then keeping a permanent
(18:53):
residence in either, uh, in oneof those states that doesn't
have a state tax, and then beingable to qualify for the foreign
earned income exclusion is verybeneficial.
Justin Keltner (19:05):
So there are some loopholes.
I mean, that's, that's good.
We, we use things like that inour corporation.
I guess you can apply it.
Uh, for state tax and, andfederal tax purposes as well as
a W2 employee.
But that goes back to that, thatoriginal challenge of like, how
are you going to get the job inthe first place?
So are there any like loopholesor strategies for people like
(19:25):
that, that are, you know, set onmoving to another country but
they really want.
A job in the US making dollars.
I mean, is it, is it even a goodapproach?
Do you see more people leaningmore towards like independent
work and 10 99 work, or what arethe overall trends in the tech
space and every, every otherarea you've worked in?
Toni Schilling (19:44):
lack of remote roles available and with the
strict.
Requirements around workingremote these days because they
have so many ways to tellwhether or not you are actually
in the country.
If you think you're gonna use aVPN and just kind of skate by,
it's not gonna happen.
There's, there's too many thingsthat can detect that these days.
but it's, if you can find one,there are ways around moving
(20:09):
around so that you're notbecoming a tax resident in any
(21:27):
one country.
If you can't find a remote rolethat lets you do that, don't try
to do it on the fly.
And, and or just like under theradar, some kind, some of
companies will say, okay, youget one month and you can be
outside of the country for onemonth, but then they need you
back in the country.
Uh, so you will have somestipulations like that.
But when it comes to looking fora remote role, be honest.
(21:48):
When you're talking to thehiring managers about what you
plan to do, um, because that'sgonna go a long way and it's an
instant let go, uh, like gettingfired.
If they find out you're doing itwithout permission.
Justin Keltner (22:03):
There's a lot of people that I've heard of in
Mexico that were just thinkingthey could move here and, and
get by with that.
And a lot of them have run intothose, those issues, and I think
it was easier.
Before too.
They didn't really care so muchlike during and after the
pandemic where you were, they,they didn't have as many people
also figuring out that theycould leave the US and save a
lot of money.
And so now it's like they'rejust dealing with these shit
(22:25):
storms of tax issues that arehappening from international
employees and all these otherthings.
I mean, what, what, what haveyou seen as the trend?
Because it seems like just thelast two years it's been almost
shut down completely.
Right.
Toni Schilling (22:40):
biggest thing is to educate yourself so that you
can educate them.
Um, and I found that even withcompanies that I have
interviewed with, I'llabsolutely preface because
they're always gonna ask, whereare you located?
address is in Texas, but I dotravel full time.
I am a US resident and a US taxresident, and I have a US bank
account.
(23:00):
I just tend to travel, but Inever stay long enough in one
country to become a taxresident.
So as long as you're okay withthe location, everything else
should be fine.
Um, and, and just learn to talkto'em about those things if they
need to ask deeper questions.
They don't need to know aboutthe foreign earned income
exclusion.
That has nothing to do withthem.
They're still gonna pay taxesthe same way.
They are still going to dothings the same way on their
(23:22):
end.
You're still going to receive usbenefits.
They don't have to give youbenefits of the country you're
in.
Just don't overcomplicate it,but be honest about it.
Uh, and you'd be surprised with,you know.
You'll catch that one or thosetwo that are like, all right,
that's cool.
As long as you get your workdone.
Uh, especially if you've beendoing this.
So like I've been doing this forthree and a half years, it's
(23:42):
much easier for me to say, ohyeah, I work American hours from
Asia'cause I've done it and Ihave managers that can attest to
my productiveness while I'mworking American hours from
Asia.
Um, so that might be a challengeas well.
The hours that you work.
Justin Keltner (23:58):
So it is possible.
I mean, there are someloopholes, um, so I don't wanna
make it seem like it's totallyimpossible.
It's just that with, with thejob market, it seems like
they're getting so manyapplicants.
I, I want you to touch on that alittle bit because we talked
about this before.
I mean, why, why would they pickyou as, as a remote?
Or living in Mexico or living inAlbania or living in Columbia or
(24:18):
in In Thailand.
When they've already got a fewthousand, you said?
Right.
On average, you're gettingthousands of applicants from the
us
Toni Schilling (24:28):
complicated to them because just, just by that
first admission that you are notin the us.
That makes you complicated andthey don't want complicated.
They want to move quickly, andthey might want to do offsites
every quarter.
It's extremely expensive to flyback to the United States every
quarter, and I have to be out ofthe United States for 330 days a
(24:50):
year to make sure that I can getthat 400.
Exclusion.
So I don't want to fly back tothe States four times a year for
a week long onsite, uh, becausethen that means I don't have
time to go see my family and,and spend time visiting with
family.
so you have to be aware of thosethings and, and understand those
things that.
(25:11):
You know, what are you going tosacrifice to be able to have
this life?
Uh, are you willing to, to workthe American hours from Asia?
If you wanna be in Asia and havethe, the lower cost of living
there?
It's absolutely possible.
Many, many people do it.
You're gonna meet many of themalong the way from the different
groups and communities andmeetups that you'll, you'll end
up going to and finding peopleat.
(25:34):
but you'll find that they haveto work to make it work.
Justin Keltner (25:41):
So what are some alternatives?
I mean, you, you, for example,recently started your own
business.
Toni Schilling (25:46):
so being on the market and it's, uh, it's a
full-time job to look for a joband then the projects and the
multiple interviews and the, youknow, disappointment of, oh,
we're not gonna move forwardbecause of where you're located
or because we want to move it onsite.
Instead, we want someone to bein the office.
Um, that's okay.
(26:07):
That is absolutely okay.
So I know there are a ton ofcompanies out there that need my
skills and my expertise and, andneed someone like me, and they
are very open to contracts.
Have many friends that have goneinto the realm of building their
own agencies since I specializein tech and GTM for SaaS
startups.
Uh.
Branching out on my own andputting together a website,
(26:31):
putting together a business,getting my own clients and, and
working contracts or contingencyor, you know, uh, a split desk
for them my own business to beable to live the lifestyle that
I wanna live and not have toanswer to someone else or, or be
called back to office for noreason.
Justin Keltner (26:51):
Yeah, it sounds like you making that, that leap,
and I want to hear a little bitabout what, what kind of
triggered that, other than justthe, the bureaucracy and the red
tape and everything, but youmaking that leap Sounds like.
It's given you a lot morefreedom and flexibility, and of
course you've gotta dooverlapping hours occasionally
and things like that, but itsounds like it's a lot more
flexible.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat to people that maybe have
(27:12):
considered starting their ownbusiness and they're not sure
where to go or why, or if it'sreally even worth it.
Toni Schilling (27:20):
Yeah, and I'm still in the early stages of
this as well, and so trying tofigure out where I want my
business to be based.
Do I want to, to build mybusiness in Estonia and be able
to get an Estonian visa so thatI can have sheen.
Says, do I wanna do it inBulgaria because there's a cheap
cost of living there, and it'svery easy to set up a business
in, in Bulgaria or Romania.
(27:41):
Do I wanna do it in the States?
Uh, and then have all the, thetaxes and the red tape and
things that happen in the stateswhen you open a business there.
Um, so those are questionsyou're gonna have to, to take a
look at and, and find out whatmatters.
To you.
Uh, and, and there are infiniteoptions.
Um, also starting off abusiness, it costs money.
Um, it's, it does cost money.
(28:02):
You're gonna go months withoutclients because you're getting
things set up.
So you have to be prepared, um,which is another reason to.
Be in a place where there's alow cost of living, where you
can focus and get your businessset up and get clients on board,
uh, and really build things outbecause there's gonna be a
period of time where you'reabsolutely not making as much
(28:22):
money as you're making in thecorporate world for most of us.
Um, but you're, it's gonna taketime to build that up.
So as long as you can managethat and, and are okay with
that, then yeah, it's a greatoption because it does give you
a lot more freedom.
And it gives you a lot moreoptions too.
Like it would be great to have,you know, sheen access, you
know, all year long and not haveto worry about being in 90 days
(28:45):
and out 90 days.
Uh, so yeah, you, you've gotsome great opportunity there.
Justin Keltner (28:51):
Great.
So for, for those of our, of ourlisteners that are like, you
know what, I really do want toget a job in tech.
I mean, I understand maybe it'sa little bit of an uphill
battle.
Um, or maybe they have a job,they can't do it remotely and
they're looking for a new job.
It sounds like most of thepeople you work with are a
little bit more with theadvance.
Side, like they're not entrylevel jobs by any means, but I'd
(29:12):
love to hear more about some ofthe jobs or the types of jobs
that you do work on.
And that way we will includeyour contact information and
everything down below in casepeople are looking to, to get
into some of those roles.
And maybe you do come acrossstartups that, that allow like
part or full-time remote,international.
Um, we'd love to hear a littlebit about, about what those, uh,
(29:33):
kinds of jobs are.
Toni Schilling (29:35):
absolutely.
Um, engineering jobs are stillvery much remote.
Um, you can find many moreengineering jobs in a remote
setting than you can maybeproduct jobs, or.
sales jobs, but sales, jobs andtech and start up, you do find
remote opportunities for moreadvanced AEs that have proven
numbers and president's clubsand have the work history to, to
(29:58):
prove out that they are good atwhat they do.
Um, companies are, are willingto.
concessions for that and, andgive you a little bit more
freedom and flexibility to beable to get you into their, into
their organization.
And, um, that's a, I'mabsolutely a huge fan of that
and have a lot of the GTM sideis where my expertise lies.
(30:21):
'cause I come from SaaS sales,so, um, account executives,
account managers, customer.
marketing and design someproduct roles, project managers,
you're gonna find some of thoseroles that are gonna still very
much be remote, um, especiallyif they're are looking to hire
in Eastern Europe.
Um, there's a, a, a huge amountof companies that are hiring
(30:43):
throughout Eastern Europe,especially on the engineering
and like product side.
So if you do end up withresidency there, then there's
opportunity and they still paywell.
Um, but yeah, GTM side and thenengineering, of course, there's
always engineering rules thatcompanies need to fill.
So, um, if you're an advancedengineer, happy to, to chat with
you about what you're lookingfor.
(31:03):
Um, but yeah, cross the board.
Happy to help.
Justin Keltner (31:06):
Course, what's the best way for people to get
in touch with you to, to connectwith you about those things?
Toni Schilling (31:12):
um, receive through my email or through
LinkedIn.
Um, so LinkedIn, just TonyShilling and you'll see, uh, my
picture there.
I kind of hard to miss theredhead.
Um, but then I'll give you myemail if you'd like to share
that.
It's tony dot shilling at besatalent, BESA talent.com.
happy
Justin Keltner (31:30):
And we'll put that down below too.
Amazing.
Well, well thank you so much.
We really appreciate your time,Tony.
And if, uh, those of you are wawho are watching are looking for
more guidance on how to makeincome remotely from a business
or from your own independentsort of thing, we also have a
lot of resources.
We're gonna include those belowthis video, including our expat
(31:50):
income accelerator.
As well as some other programsthat can get you started on your
expat journey.
And if you're lookingspecifically for a remote role
in tech or go to market forbusinesses, engineering account
executives, all sorts of thingslike that, definitely connect
with Tony on LinkedIn or byemail.
And thank you again, Tony, forbeing with us here today and
(32:11):
sharing all that insight withour audience.
We really appreciate it.
Toni Schilling (32:16):
Thanks for the opportunity.
And a lot of those people are working remote
right now, and they do not wannago back to an office.
And it is very hard to findremote roles right now because
those remote roles, not only arethey few and far between,
they're probably gonna pay alittle less because you're
getting the benefit of beingremote, and you're not having to
move to, Bay Area or New York orSeattle to take on those roles
(00:57):
at these tech companies.
Once you find remote rules, ifyou're able to get into one,
there usually are somestipulations around that,
depending on, on the company.
Uh, so I personally haveinterviewed with some companies
that they have clauses in theircontracts with their clients
that state they will not haveemployees logging into their
(01:17):
systems from certain regionsbecause they're high risk.
Justin Keltner (01:25):
Today we are here with Tony Shilling and
she's gonna talk to us a littlebit about the situation of
remote work.
I'm really happy to be joined byTony, who's actually joining us
today from Albania.
She's an expat out thereoriginally from the US and she
is a world class recruiter thatwanted to escape the west.
(01:46):
And, uh, find better places tolive and work and travel from
while maintaining her career asa technical recruiter.
So Tony, I'd love it if youcould just tell our audience a
little bit about you and how yougot to Albania For sure.
And, and how you got into doingwhat you're doing.
Toni Schilling (02:03):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So, um, I, I grew up inLouisiana, went to college in
Texas, found my way to Coloradoand spent seven years there.
And while I was in Colorado, um.
Was doing SaaS sales and foundmy way into recruiting for SaaS
sales for uh, tech startupcompanies, and really loved it
and worked my way into remoteroles, uh, working remote.
(02:27):
I had the option to really workfrom anywhere and cost of living
in Colorado is high.
So when my son graduated highschool back in 2022, I decided
that I was.
gonna take my passport and setoff and go travel the world and
work remotely and see what Icould see.
And so that led me to, uh,taking my first trip outside the
(02:49):
country and ended up in Mexicofor my first six weeks, staying
close to home in case anythingwent wrong.
And then, uh, just looked forthe cheapest flight to Europe on
the Google flights.
where function and the cheapestflight from Cancun to Europe was
Tiranë Albania, and that's how Iended up in Albania.
I've traveled 15 differentcountries since then, but always
(03:11):
come back to Albania because itfeels like a great place to post
up for six to eight months, uh,getting outta the Schengen zone
and just somewhere that'sfamiliar and really chill when
it's not the high season.
So yeah, back in Albania.
Justin Keltner (03:25):
Great.
I'm curious, what do you love somuch about Albania?
Because as I mentioned earlier,my wife and I are actually
exploring going there forpotentially six months, a year
or maybe more, and looking atgetting our.
A residency there to have in ourback pocket and also just to
spend at least part of the yearin Europe.
What are, what are your favoriteparts about Albania that, you
love?
Toni Schilling (03:45):
Yeah, you, you find so many Americans here is
Americans get a year visa freein Albania.
So we just show up and we canstay for an entire year.
If you wanna come back, it'sjust out 90 days and back for an
entire year.
And so it's really easy.
It's not part of the shein zone.
You don't have to worry aboutthe 90 days in, 90 days out
every six months.
(04:05):
Um, and the people here areamazing.
There's very much a community.
Feel, um, it's still very, um,easygoing, laid back like you
might find in, in Italy orSpain, but not as crowded, not
as expensive, and.
The southern part of Albania isbeautiful.
(04:28):
The coastline is beautiful.
Where I am in am in Soranda,it's great down in Samil, you've
got Hamar just up the road.
And then Flora and Doris arealso really popular spots along
the coast because looks likeGreece, but it's half the price.
Um, but yeah, uh, lots of expatshere, thriving expat communities
and so you have plenty of peopleto interact with if you wanna be
(04:48):
social.
Um, but yeah, it's been a greatplace to post up.
Justin Keltner (04:52):
Amazing.
And how is remote work for youfrom there?
Because in addition to theremote job scene, which we're
gonna get into in a minute, alot of our followers are asking
us things like, what is it like?
To work from differentcountries, and in fact, there's
a lot of rumors, and maybe thesewere true in the past, but
things like Albania is dangerousor there's no infrastructure
(05:13):
there, or the power goes out allthe time, or they're communist.
I mean, I'm curious what yourthoughts are on some of that.
Toni Schilling (05:20):
it's actually crazy.
So, um, Albania has a, a verygood relationship with America,
and so Americans are extremelywelcome here, here in Saron.
There's even like a HillaryClinton Gardens and they
celebrate 4th of July.
And you on flag day, likeAlbanian Flag Day, they fly the
American flag right next to theAlbanian flag.
And, and they're just friendlypeople.
(05:42):
And I do not feel safer in anyother country than I ever have
in Albania.
This is one of the Safestplaces.
Um, like I said, it's verycommunity oriented, so you see
children just out playing, youknow, on the beach or with each
other, and all the parents arelooking out for all the
children.
Um, if you drop your purse atthe bus station and you go back
(06:03):
five hours later, someone willhave picked that up and either
taken it to the police station.
Or they have it there waitingfor you to come back.
Um, that actually happened to afriend of mine.
As soon as she got here, a taxidriver found the purse.
I went back to look for it.
He said, oh, my friend has takenit to their home.
They are going to the policestation with it, but let me take
you to his home.
And he walked me to this guy'shouse and he came out to give me
(06:25):
the purse.
And I was like, oh, please letme, you know, give you some type
of reward or something.
And he was not having it.
He was like, no, no, no, no,this, just very glad I could get
this back to you.
And so passports, money.
Credit cards, nothing wastouched.
It's, it's just a safe and aneasy place to be.
Justin Keltner (06:43):
That's very cool.
And some of those things soundreally similar to Mexico, like
the family friendly nature andall that.
And we're gonna have to doanother conversation where we
dive a little bit more intoAlbania as well.
Um, but that's, that's reallygood to know.
And internet has been prettysolid so far.
No issues with any of thatinfrastructure wise.
Toni Schilling (07:02):
so to and from cities and, and you're not gonna
find, um, red lights andcrosswalks and things like that
here.
It's, it's too small for that.
Here where I am in Sarda, youwill find that in sorana bus
systems or everywhere.
It's, there's not a train systemthat runs through Albania like
you would find in, in most partsof Europe, but the bus systems
(07:24):
are great.
You're always gonna be able toget a bus to different cities.
I've taken the bus from Taranato Montenegro before.
I have friends that have gonefrom, um, Tarana to Bulgaria on
the bus system.
Um, flights.
There's going to be a, a newairport being built in velo,
which is great.
Um, there is an airport in TaraToronto, and then where I am in
Sarada, it's a 30 minute ferryride over to Corfu, Greece,
(07:46):
where there's also an airport.
Um, so really easy to get aroundas far as infrastructure goes.
Um, and you're always able toget a bus.
Somewhere.
Um, you can take private taxis,they're everywhere as well.
Um, so you're not gonna be, youknow, left stranded anywhere.
If you are just knock on a door,someone's gonna help you, I
promise.
Um, as far as internet goes and,and apartments, there are so
(08:08):
many new apartments being builthere because they are growing
and so the modernization ofAlbania is.
Happening extremely rapidly, uh,since they opened the borders, I
don't know, 20, 25 years ago.
And so you're gonna be able tofind very Western style
apartments.
You'll also be able to find verytraditional apartments for much
lower prices, even a little bitfurther out of town.
(08:31):
Um.
But the internet has been great.
Uh, power outages.
I haven't had any issues withpower outages the way here in
the summer.
Sometimes that happens.
Um, but the internet is a greatspeed.
They'll offer to upgrade it foryou.
If you're staying in an Airbnband it's not enough, great.
They can go and get thatupgraded.
It's no problem.
Justin Keltner (08:48):
That's good to hear.
Amazing.
So let's.
Dive into one of the most commonquestions that we get from a
segment of our audience that arelooking to work remotely.
In some cases, they still haveenough money to retire and even
invest, but they're like, I, Istill want to keep working.
Or maybe they do need a littlebit of an extra source of
income.
You work a really with, with UScompanies, right?
(09:08):
Perhaps European companies aswell, or are they mainly in the,
in the us.
Toni Schilling (09:13):
mostly us.
Justin Keltner (09:14):
Okay.
And what are you seeing as faras just.
The trends around remote workoverall.
I know you do a lot of remoteroles, but are they really
remote or are they requiringpeople still to be in a certain
country or not be in othercountries?
Give us the entire, just lowdown of that.
Toni Schilling (09:35):
I work specifically with tech startups
and in the startup world thereis a trend of.
teams back in offices and havingthe team in office and building
a culture in office.
Um, and I'm, I'm not sure howsuccessful that's going to be,
because usually when startupsare hiring people, they're, they
(09:56):
need to hire the best of thebest that.
To come in that already knowswhat they're doing to help build
out teams.
And a lot of those people areworking remote right now, and
they do not wanna go back to anoffice.
Uh, so you'll have maybe someremote roles.
A lot of engineering roles aregonna re remain remote.
Most of those were remote priorto COVID and, and other roles
(10:17):
going remote.
Um, but a lot of your salesroles, your corporate roles,
your G-N-G-N-A roles, they'recoming back into office.
they believe that.
You know, people work betterwhen they're face to face.
Don't know how true I, I buyinto that.
I'm not a, I'm not a hugeadvocate for that because I get
distracted very easily and I'mvery unproductive in an office.
(10:40):
But it is a trend and it is veryhard to find remote roles right
now because those remote roles,not only are they few and far
between, they're probably gonnapay a little less because you're
getting the benefit of beingremote, um, and you're not
having to move to, um.
Bay Area or New York or Seattleto take on those roles at these
tech companies.
(11:00):
so.
Once you find remote rules, ifyou're able to get into one,
there usually are somestipulations around that,
depending on, on the company.
Uh, so I personally haveinterviewed with some companies
that they have clauses in theircontracts with their clients
that state they will not haveemployees logging into their
systems from certain regionsbecause they're high risk.
(11:23):
Most of those are
Justin Keltner (11:24):
interesting.
Toni Schilling (11:26):
PHI, um, they're gonna be DCI, uh, um.
Compliant, they're going to holdvery sensitive data.
Um, and, and they just don'twant to get out.
They don't want your computer tobe left open in a cafe and
something to happen, or youweren't using a VPN or the
security you were supposed to beusing.
So that can
Justin Keltner (11:47):
if that couldn't happen in the US right.
Toni Schilling (11:51):
Yeah.
That's
Justin Keltner (11:52):
Yeah.
Toni Schilling (11:54):
the US.
Companies are very adamant thatbeing outside of the US is a
risk.
I would disagree, but they ownthe company, so we have to abide
by what they want.
And if you want a remote job andthey require you to be in the
us, you're gonna have to stay inthe US if you want that.
Um, very few companies are goingto be open.
To the possibility of you beingoutside of the us, um, if
(12:17):
they're following principles ofleast access.
If you have a role that doesn'tneed access into sensitive
customer data, sensitiveproduct, data sensitive employee
data, then they shut off youraccess to all those things and
you're able to just access thethings that you need.
Or if they have entities inother countries.
Um, so you have companies likeOster and Deal that are global
companies.
They have, help other companiesget entities and companies where
(12:40):
they can hire in those places.
Like I said, I, move aroundenough where I'm not a resident
of any one country, so I'm stillconsidered a US resident.
I am not having to have benefitsof any one country and, and
becoming a resident there.
It doesn't mess with the taxesfor the company.
And so those are things thatyou'll have to think about as
well because if you do reside inanother country, um, and you're
(13:01):
trying to get a US job.
probably best to get it beforeyou leave and, and go somewhere
else.
And then make sure that you'restill considered that US
resident and have a US addressand US bank account.
if you don't have that, a lot oftimes it's a no go for
companies.
Justin Keltner (13:19):
Now you mentioned that some of these
company.
Is actually will have like four,either foreign hiring entities
where maybe they're goingthrough some type of payroll
organization or something likethat, or they've got branches
already in that company and theycould essentially hire you in
that other country.
Do you see that they're payingthe same wages as they would a
remote worker, let's say inCalifornia?
(13:40):
Or are they also makingadjustments based on the country
that you're in?
What does that look like?
Toni Schilling (13:45):
will, um, geo adjust for where you're at.
Some companies won't.
The big thing with that is ifyou are residing in that country
and you are a resident in thatcountry, you have to be legally
employable in that countrybecause they would be hiring you
in that country and so you haveto become a legal resident.
(14:05):
You can't just be on a touristvisa there and, and try to have
a job within that country hiredthrough with that country.
Justin Keltner (14:14):
What I'm hearing there and tell me if this sounds
like it's correct, but youactually not just have to have
that visa, but you probably arealso required to have a work
authorization because to yourpoint, the big multinational
companies, uh, or even large UScompanies that maybe do have a,
another hiring entity or branchor whatever, that could
potentially hire you and bewilling to take on that risk
because they, they've got peopleon the ground there.
(14:37):
best case scenario, they mayvery well adjust your wage to
the salaries in that country,which means your entire
arbitrage play.
Of living, you know, living inpesos or in Albanian, what is
it?
Le there, Albanian le and thenearning in, in dollars.
It's kind of gone out the windowbecause now you're competing
with the locals, uh, in theirmarketplace in terms of like
(14:59):
what you're earning and able tospend.
But more importantly, you wouldhave to be competing with them
essentially for those jobs.
Uh, and the government doesn'twant that.
The government is not going toissue you.
A work authorization.
Now in Mexico, it's a little bitmore lenient, uh, although by
the letter of the law, when yourenew your temporary residence
here, you do need to say thatyou are still qualified on the
(15:21):
same authorization that you camein on, which is you're making
money from outside of Mexico.
Sometimes they will give you aremote authorization, and
that's.
Especially true if, for example,you are, you know, you wanna
start like a business in Mexicoand hire yourself or something
like that.
Um, but in Europe, I mean, I, I,I'm almost a hundred percent
sure when I was researching thismyself, that Albania does not
(15:43):
allow you to work in thatcountry at all.
You have to have all of yourincome coming in from remote
sources.
And even if they did allow youto work, you're, you're now.
Also getting into their tax net,which is relatively high if your
income isn't from overseas.
So it's, it's kind of a, adamned if you do, damned if you
don't sort of thing, isn't it?
God
Toni Schilling (16:01):
the, around that would probably be to take on 10
99 positions and be like a soleproprietor or have your own
business that you are, arebilling as a 10 99 employee on a
contract.
Um, because then you could haveyour, your business entity could
be anywhere really.
And then you're billing them inUS dollars and they're
Justin Keltner (16:20):
filling the company that you're working for.
And is that like a viableworkaround, like when you're
looking at positions that youhave available?
Do they tend to allow you, Imean, I know that's a
workaround, um, but how do, howdo those corporations actually
look at it, whether it's astartup or whether it's a, a
larger enterprise?
I mean, are they open to thateven,
Toni Schilling (16:42):
I haven't found that in a lot of cases, unless
they are looking for a very,very skilled person and they
really want the skills that thatperson has, they would be
willing to do a 10 99 for.
Them.
Um, otherwise
Justin Keltner (16:55):
gonna, yeah, I.
Toni Schilling (16:57):
a, it their because they really want someone
that's gonna be.
On, on board with the missionand a part of the team and
really driven by the company.
And if you're, if you're just ona contract that's very
temporary, doesn't feel verypermanent, it doesn't feel very
bought in, especially in thestartup world.
So there aren't gonna be a lotof companies that are switching
when they have a full-time roleopen, switching it to a contract
(17:21):
role unless you are very, veryskilled at something.
Justin Keltner (17:26):
That makes a lot of sense.
And, and that's, that's whatI've seen as well as we've been
talking with people that havebeen applying for jobs.
They really, they don't want tobe flexible.
And by the way, another thingI'll add, and you're, you've.
Probably seen this as well whenpeople are trying to work from,
from other countries or even inyour own personal experience.
But if you're getting a W2income, not only are you paying
(17:49):
federal income tax and all that,but you're also paying tax in
whatever state that company hasyou registered in potentially.
And especially if that's a hightax state like California or New
York, you're losing half thebenefits of spending all of the
time outside of the us You're,you're almost paying as if you
were living in the US full time.
Toni Schilling (18:09):
if you were outside of the US for 330 days,
within a 12 month period.
You qualify for the foreign,foreign earned income exclusion,
even if you are being paid by aUS company.
And so you are excluded fromfederal taxes, not Medicare and,
and social security, but federaltaxes, um, as long as you are
(18:31):
outside of the country for thatamount of time within a 12 month
period, state taxes you wouldstill be responsible for.
But if you put your permanentaddress in a state with no state
taxes, like a Florida or aTexas.
you don't have the state taxesas well.
So staying outside the countryfor that amount of time, 330
days out of a 12 month period,and then keeping a permanent
(18:53):
residence in either, uh, in oneof those states that doesn't
have a state tax, and then beingable to qualify for the foreign
earned income exclusion is verybeneficial.
Justin Keltner (19:05):
So there are some loopholes.
I mean, that's, that's good.
We, we use things like that inour corporation.
I guess you can apply it.
Uh, for state tax and, andfederal tax purposes as well as
a W2 employee.
But that goes back to that, thatoriginal challenge of like, how
are you going to get the job inthe first place?
So are there any like loopholesor strategies for people like
(19:25):
that, that are, you know, set onmoving to another country but
they really want.
A job in the US making dollars.
I mean, is it, is it even a goodapproach?
Do you see more people leaningmore towards like independent
work and 10 99 work, or what arethe overall trends in the tech
space and every, every otherarea you've worked in?
Toni Schilling (19:44):
lack of remote roles available and with the
strict.
Requirements around workingremote these days because they
have so many ways to tellwhether or not you are actually
in the country.
If you think you're gonna use aVPN and just kind of skate by,
it's not gonna happen.
There's, there's too many thingsthat can detect that these days.
but it's, if you can find one,there are ways around moving
(20:09):
around so that you're notbecoming a tax resident in any
(21:27):
one country.
If you can't find a remote rolethat lets you do that, don't try
to do it on the fly.
And, and or just like under theradar, some kind, some of
companies will say, okay, youget one month and you can be
outside of the country for onemonth, but then they need you
back in the country.
Uh, so you will have somestipulations like that.
But when it comes to looking fora remote role, be honest.
(21:48):
When you're talking to thehiring managers about what you
plan to do, um, because that'sgonna go a long way and it's an
instant let go, uh, like gettingfired.
If they find out you're doing itwithout permission.
Justin Keltner (22:03):
There's a lot of people that I've heard of in
Mexico that were just thinkingthey could move here and, and
get by with that.
And a lot of them have run intothose, those issues, and I think
it was easier.
Before too.
They didn't really care so muchlike during and after the
pandemic where you were, they,they didn't have as many people
also figuring out that theycould leave the US and save a
lot of money.
And so now it's like they'rejust dealing with these shit
(22:25):
storms of tax issues that arehappening from international
employees and all these otherthings.
I mean, what, what, what haveyou seen as the trend?
Because it seems like just thelast two years it's been almost
shut down completely.
Right.
Toni Schilling (22:40):
biggest thing is to educate yourself so that you
can educate them.
Um, and I found that even withcompanies that I have
interviewed with, I'llabsolutely preface because
they're always gonna ask, whereare you located?
address is in Texas, but I dotravel full time.
I am a US resident and a US taxresident, and I have a US bank
account.
(23:00):
I just tend to travel, but Inever stay long enough in one
country to become a taxresident.
So as long as you're okay withthe location, everything else
should be fine.
Um, and, and just learn to talkto'em about those things if they
need to ask deeper questions.
They don't need to know aboutthe foreign earned income
exclusion.
That has nothing to do withthem.
They're still gonna pay taxesthe same way.
They are still going to dothings the same way on their
(23:22):
end.
You're still going to receive usbenefits.
They don't have to give youbenefits of the country you're
in.
Just don't overcomplicate it,but be honest about it.
Uh, and you'd be surprised with,you know.
You'll catch that one or thosetwo that are like, all right,
that's cool.
As long as you get your workdone.
Uh, especially if you've beendoing this.
So like I've been doing this forthree and a half years, it's
(23:42):
much easier for me to say, ohyeah, I work American hours from
Asia'cause I've done it and Ihave managers that can attest to
my productiveness while I'mworking American hours from
Asia.
Um, so that might be a challengeas well.
The hours that you work.
Justin Keltner (23:58):
So it is possible.
I mean, there are someloopholes, um, so I don't wanna
make it seem like it's totallyimpossible.
It's just that with, with thejob market, it seems like
they're getting so manyapplicants.
I, I want you to touch on that alittle bit because we talked
about this before.
I mean, why, why would they pickyou as, as a remote?
Or living in Mexico or living inAlbania or living in Columbia or
(24:18):
in In Thailand.
When they've already got a fewthousand, you said?
Right.
On average, you're gettingthousands of applicants from the
us
Toni Schilling (24:28):
complicated to them because just, just by that
first admission that you are notin the us.
That makes you complicated andthey don't want complicated.
They want to move quickly, andthey might want to do offsites
every quarter.
It's extremely expensive to flyback to the United States every
quarter, and I have to be out ofthe United States for 330 days a
(24:50):
year to make sure that I can getthat 400.
Exclusion.
So I don't want to fly back tothe States four times a year for
a week long onsite, uh, becausethen that means I don't have
time to go see my family and,and spend time visiting with
family.
so you have to be aware of thosethings and, and understand those
things that.
(25:11):
You know, what are you going tosacrifice to be able to have
this life?
Uh, are you willing to, to workthe American hours from Asia?
If you wanna be in Asia and havethe, the lower cost of living
there?
It's absolutely possible.
Many, many people do it.
You're gonna meet many of themalong the way from the different
groups and communities andmeetups that you'll, you'll end
up going to and finding peopleat.
(25:34):
but you'll find that they haveto work to make it work.
Justin Keltner (25:41):
So what are some alternatives?
I mean, you, you, for example,recently started your own
business.
Toni Schilling (25:46):
so being on the market and it's, uh, it's a
full-time job to look for a joband then the projects and the
multiple interviews and the, youknow, disappointment of, oh,
we're not gonna move forwardbecause of where you're located
or because we want to move it onsite.
Instead, we want someone to bein the office.
Um, that's okay.
(26:07):
That is absolutely okay.
So I know there are a ton ofcompanies out there that need my
skills and my expertise and, andneed someone like me, and they
are very open to contracts.
Have many friends that have goneinto the realm of building their
own agencies since I specializein tech and GTM for SaaS
startups.
Uh.
Branching out on my own andputting together a website,
(26:31):
putting together a business,getting my own clients and, and
working contracts or contingencyor, you know, uh, a split desk
for them my own business to beable to live the lifestyle that
I wanna live and not have toanswer to someone else or, or be
called back to office for noreason.
Justin Keltner (26:51):
Yeah, it sounds like you making that, that leap,
and I want to hear a little bitabout what, what kind of
triggered that, other than justthe, the bureaucracy and the red
tape and everything, but youmaking that leap Sounds like.
It's given you a lot morefreedom and flexibility, and of
course you've gotta dooverlapping hours occasionally
and things like that, but itsounds like it's a lot more
flexible.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat to people that maybe have
(27:12):
considered starting their ownbusiness and they're not sure
where to go or why, or if it'sreally even worth it.
Toni Schilling (27:20):
Yeah, and I'm still in the early stages of
this as well, and so trying tofigure out where I want my
business to be based.
Do I want to, to build mybusiness in Estonia and be able
to get an Estonian visa so thatI can have sheen.
Says, do I wanna do it inBulgaria because there's a cheap
cost of living there, and it'svery easy to set up a business
in, in Bulgaria or Romania.
(27:41):
Do I wanna do it in the States?
Uh, and then have all the, thetaxes and the red tape and
things that happen in the stateswhen you open a business there.
Um, so those are questionsyou're gonna have to, to take a
look at and, and find out whatmatters.
To you.
Uh, and, and there are infiniteoptions.
Um, also starting off abusiness, it costs money.
Um, it's, it does cost money.
(28:02):
You're gonna go months withoutclients because you're getting
things set up.
So you have to be prepared, um,which is another reason to.
Be in a place where there's alow cost of living, where you
can focus and get your businessset up and get clients on board,
uh, and really build things outbecause there's gonna be a
period of time where you'reabsolutely not making as much
(28:22):
money as you're making in thecorporate world for most of us.
Um, but you're, it's gonna taketime to build that up.
So as long as you can managethat and, and are okay with
that, then yeah, it's a greatoption because it does give you
a lot more freedom.
And it gives you a lot moreoptions too.
Like it would be great to have,you know, sheen access, you
know, all year long and not haveto worry about being in 90 days
(28:45):
and out 90 days.
Uh, so yeah, you, you've gotsome great opportunity there.
Justin Keltner (28:51):
Great.
So for, for those of our, of ourlisteners that are like, you
know what, I really do want toget a job in tech.
I mean, I understand maybe it'sa little bit of an uphill
battle.
Um, or maybe they have a job,they can't do it remotely and
they're looking for a new job.
It sounds like most of thepeople you work with are a
little bit more with theadvance.
Side, like they're not entrylevel jobs by any means, but I'd
(29:12):
love to hear more about some ofthe jobs or the types of jobs
that you do work on.
And that way we will includeyour contact information and
everything down below in casepeople are looking to, to get
into some of those roles.
And maybe you do come acrossstartups that, that allow like
part or full-time remote,international.
Um, we'd love to hear a littlebit about, about what those, uh,
(29:33):
kinds of jobs are.
Toni Schilling (29:35):
absolutely.
Um, engineering jobs are stillvery much remote.
Um, you can find many moreengineering jobs in a remote
setting than you can maybeproduct jobs, or.
sales jobs, but sales, jobs andtech and start up, you do find
remote opportunities for moreadvanced AEs that have proven
numbers and president's clubsand have the work history to, to
(29:58):
prove out that they are good atwhat they do.
Um, companies are, are willingto.
concessions for that and, andgive you a little bit more
freedom and flexibility to beable to get you into their, into
their organization.
And, um, that's a, I'mabsolutely a huge fan of that
and have a lot of the GTM sideis where my expertise lies.
(30:21):
'cause I come from SaaS sales,so, um, account executives,
account managers, customer.
marketing and design someproduct roles, project managers,
you're gonna find some of thoseroles that are gonna still very
much be remote, um, especiallyif they're are looking to hire
in Eastern Europe.
Um, there's a, a, a huge amountof companies that are hiring
(30:43):
throughout Eastern Europe,especially on the engineering
and like product side.
So if you do end up withresidency there, then there's
opportunity and they still paywell.
Um, but yeah, GTM side and thenengineering, of course, there's
always engineering rules thatcompanies need to fill.
So, um, if you're an advancedengineer, happy to, to chat with
you about what you're lookingfor.
(31:03):
Um, but yeah, cross the board.
Happy to help.
Justin Keltner (31:06):
Course, what's the best way for people to get
in touch with you to, to connectwith you about those things?
Toni Schilling (31:12):
um, receive through my email or through
LinkedIn.
Um, so LinkedIn, just TonyShilling and you'll see, uh, my
picture there.
I kind of hard to miss theredhead.
Um, but then I'll give you myemail if you'd like to share
that.
It's tony dot shilling at besatalent, BESA talent.com.
happy
Justin Keltner (31:30):
And we'll put that down below too.
Amazing.
Well, well thank you so much.
We really appreciate your time,Tony.
And if, uh, those of you are wawho are watching are looking for
more guidance on how to makeincome remotely from a business
or from your own independentsort of thing, we also have a
lot of resources.
We're gonna include those belowthis video, including our expat
(31:50):
income accelerator.
As well as some other programsthat can get you started on your
expat journey.
And if you're lookingspecifically for a remote role
in tech or go to market forbusinesses, engineering account
executives, all sorts of thingslike that, definitely connect
with Tony on LinkedIn or byemail.
And thank you again, Tony, forbeing with us here today and
(32:11):
sharing all that insight withour audience.
We really appreciate it.
Toni Schilling (32:16):
Thanks for the opportunity.
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