How do you get started with modeling? What does it take to shoot with Adidas, L’Oreal and Brookstone? Karlly Feng shares her experience signing with BICOASTAL MGMT and how she balances Modeling with YouTube and her 9-5 as a Product Manager at Microsoft.
Chapters
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:02:23) How to Practice Taking Photos
(00:05:00) Do You Need a Portfolio to Start Professionally Modeling?
(00:07:00) Pros & Cons of Signing With an Agency
(00:08:40) My First Casting
(00:10:42) Shooting with Adidas
(00:12:14) On Being an Asian Petite Model
(00:13:20) Balancing 9-5 at Microsoft with Modeling & YouTube
(00:16:30) Bias Toward Action
(00:18:20) How to Get Over the Fear of Putting Yourself Out There
(00:21:08) Discovering Your Innate, Hidden Creativity Amidst a 9-5
(00:24:40) Challenges
(00:25:52) Advice to Getting Started with Modeling & Self-Acutalizing Your Dreams
(00:30:00) Where to Find Karlly
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhaime Kim (00:00):
Karlly Feng is a model and YouTuber. She's also a
(00:03):
product manager at Microsoft,Karlly and I met while studying
computer science at BrownUniversity. Currently, this is
not the Center for IT. This iswe're recording.
Karlly Feng (00:16):
I'm very glad as well.
Rhaime Kim (00:18):
Tell me about your modeling career. Who are you
signed with right now? And whatbrands have you worked with?
Karlly Feng (00:25):
I started modeling around two to three years ago.
I'm currently signed withbicoastal management. The most
notable brands I've worked withare Adidas, L'Oreal Brookstone
to name a few. I mostly model inthe commercial beauty and a
little bit in the fitness space.
That's really where like mybread and butter lies.
Rhaime Kim (00:47):
I remember you were a pole vaulter. Yeah. Brown. So
you were a Do you want toathlete, which is so crazy. I
can't imagine like when I seepole vaulters, I don't know how
you'll do it. So do you thinkthat background has influenced
the types of brands you workwith? Not
Karlly Feng (01:03):
so much the types of brands I work with? As much
as I think the confidence? Yeah,it's given me Whoa. Yeah, I
think just knowing like my bodyhas done and can do really cool
shit. Yeah, lets me just beconfident in knowing that. If a
brand wants me to cast for a,like more athletic type of
(01:24):
shoot, and they asked me to sendin a self tape, then I can,
like, do it. And I can know thatI look good doing it. Yeah. Oh,
my
Rhaime Kim (01:31):
God, I didn't even make that connection. That's
really cool. Did you start polevaulting when you're younger?
Karlly Feng (01:37):
I started freshman year of high school. So when I
was working,
Rhaime Kim (01:41):
what about modeling is the most fun for you like, is
it getting ready for modeling,
Karlly Feng (01:47):
I definitely love getting ready. It's more. So the
idea that there's so many subtlemovements that can make or break
a photo, the aspects that I cancontrol generally are my facial
expression. And the way my bodyis angled toward the camera
outside of that, like otherpeople have already taken care
of the lighting, wardrobemakeup. And I think it's just so
(02:08):
interesting how like, you playwith the facial expressions
along with the way you move yourbody. And you can get such
different images from suchsubtle movements. And I think
that's always really fun todiscover and play around with.
Do you,
Rhaime Kim (02:23):
like do a lot of self discovery when taking
photos of yourself? Or do you doa lot of research? Like how do
you think about different poses?
Karlly Feng (02:30):
So I definitely practice in front of a mirror. I
have a mood board. So when Icollaborate with photographers,
I'll generally show them an ideaof what I'd like to aim for. And
that images I want. Yeah. And sosometimes it's even bringing my
mood board and working with thephotographer in front of me and
thinking about where thephotographer has to be, and like
(02:52):
what my body has to look like,yes, we're shooting. Yeah, I
didn't realize that you couldalso come prepare to a photo
shoot.
Rhaime Kim (02:58):
I mean, maybe that's a super obvious thing. But I
didn't realize that like is thatwhen you're engaging in
photographer
Karlly Feng (03:04):
Exactly. When I'm trying to build my portfolio?
I'm in control of what images Iwant to add. Yeah, right. So
totally, sometimes it's like,more colorful, blocky makeup
looks. Sometimes it's more likemovement inspired editorial
style photos. It's up to me tobuild that portfolio I want. I
tried to come very prepared toshoots that I setup. And then if
(03:25):
it's a client that's bugging me,then I am just wherever they
want me to be.
Rhaime Kim (03:29):
Are there certain models that you look up to? Or
is it more like you go onPinterest? And do your research
there? How do you build thatmood board? Oh, yeah,
Karlly Feng (03:38):
that's a good question. So I, for my mood
board, I separate it intodifferent styles. So I have like
a fitness mood board, I have amakeup mood board, the beauty
mood board. Yeah, more likefashion editorial type of mood
board. Okay. And depending onwhat I'm trying to add to my
portfolio, I will drawinspiration from those specific
mood boards. And I feel likePinterest makes it really easy
(04:00):
to look for the types of imagesyou want. They suggest really
great images already. If you'reable to find like a few starting
out that you're looking for, asfar as models that I look up to,
I have always really lucked upto be one who is like the OG
Asian supermodel. And I followedher for a while. I think I
discovered her in high school.
Yeah, so it's been really fun tosee the stuff that she's in.
(04:23):
That's the main one. There'sother like Asian models that I
follow as well. And it's cool tosee like what types of bookings
that Asian models can get. Yeah,can continue to get, of course,
Rhaime Kim (04:35):
do you look at the brands that they've worked with?
Or do you more look at the kindof their makeup or hair?
Karlly Feng (04:42):
It's a little bit of both? Probably primarily the
the brands? Yeah, they work withbecause those are the brands
that are looking for Asianmodels. So those are the brands
that I could potentially beworking with also.
Rhaime Kim (04:52):
So you talked about being prepared for photoshoots
that you've booked? Did you gothrough that process to have
photos For you reached out toagencies and booked your first
clients, what was thatpreparation process like, from
when you had this idea ofwanting to be professional about
modeling up until the pointwhere you got that first deal or
(05:13):
you're able to sign you're withan agency?
Karlly Feng (05:16):
It's quite widely known that you don't need a
portfolio. If you're juststarting out. That's great.
Yeah, you just need to takeDigital's which are the basic,
but as of your like, headshotprofile, both sides, a three
quarter profile. Yeah. And thena three quarter body shot. And
you'd want to be wearing like atank top and jeans and maybe
(05:37):
heels. But that being said, I dothink a portfolio really helps
you to like if an agency isinterested in signing you, and
they're interested in yourDigital's then they'll probably
follow up and be like, can yousend me a link to your
portfolio? Yeah. So it ishelpful. I didn't have a great
portfolio. When I started.
Rhaime Kim (05:54):
I think that just goes to show that if any of you
are out there and you want amodel, you have no excuse. Let's
go, you know, did you use a selftimer? Or did you have friends
who helped you take some ofthose initial photos?
Karlly Feng (06:09):
Yeah, I will say the one thing to your to your
last question is it is reallyhelpful to have a well curated
Instagram. Yeah, these days, ifan agency is interested in
booking you, even if you don'thave a portfolio, they will be
looking at your Instagram andseeing like what your face looks
like, and what your body lookslike. Yeah, in the quote
unquote, wild. Yeah. And as faras taking my own photos.
(06:33):
Actually, a Shawn took my firstDigital's our mutual friend. Oh,
my God,
Rhaime Kim (06:37):
no way. Yeah, I love that I actually didn't know.
Karlly Feng (06:42):
I also went to Brown also studied computer
science and is actually also aproduct manager. He was the only
photographer friend I knew inSeattle at the time where Yeah,
I just reached out to him. I waslike, Hey, can you take my
Digital's and then those got mesigned with my first agency.
Rhaime Kim (06:58):
That's so cool. For a model that starting out if you
want to do like professionallike photo shoots and all that,
would you recommend signing withan agency? And was that for you
the obvious first step intobeing a professional model,
Karlly Feng (07:12):
I think there's a couple of ways to go about it.
It's either being represented ornot being represented. And
there's pros and cons to both. Ithink if you're starting out,
and you have no knowledge aboutthe industry, it's really
helpful to be represented by anagency. Yeah. But that being
said, an agency generally takes20% or 10%, of whatever you
make. And it it's standard.
(07:32):
Yeah. And after taxes, it's agood chunk out of what you would
originally be making if youweren't represented. That being
said, there's also a lot ofagencies out there that don't
have the best practices, eventhe most highly known agencies.
There's like a lot of models whotalk about really high website,
these are being told to payweird prices for like model
(07:56):
apartments and all of thatstuff. You have to be careful
when you're signing with yourfirst agency. I would say go on
Reddit. There's a lot ofinformation on Reddit, there's a
lot of information online. Ifany agency is asking you to pay
up front, that's probably mostlikely a red flag. Yeah,
especially if they're lookingthere. Especially if they're
asking you to pay for classes orphotoshoots. From from
(08:19):
photographers within the agency.
Yeah. But if you're unsigned,there's also ways to book jobs.
That way, you can go ontocasting websites, you can follow
casting accounts on Instagram,and you might not know your
worth in the beginning, which isalso a little bit dangerous,
because you could be signingaway rights that you didn't even
(08:40):
know or a thing. Yeah, sothere's pros and cons to both.
If you know what you need toknow about the fashion industry,
then being unsigned can be agreat way to make money.
Rhaime Kim (08:51):
So once you signed with bicoastal, how long did it
take for you to get your firstcasting and then your first
signed?
Karlly Feng (09:00):
photoshoot? Okay, so, castings come quite
frequently. Okay. Obviously,they're slow periods. I think it
took me less than a month to getmy first casting not so
Rhaime Kim (09:11):
exciting. Yeah. What was that? Like? Were you like,
oh my god, I made it. Oh mygosh. I wouldn't be like, Oh my
god, you guys. I'm a model.
Karlly Feng (09:19):
Quick aside castings are when you're like,
asked to audition.
Rhaime Kim (09:23):
I know. Okay, still okay. Maybe. If it's okay. Don't
they have a pre process? Solike, they would invite people
to a casting Right, exactly.
Karlly Feng (09:33):
So the way the process works is, you're signed
with an agency, the agencysubmits you to all of these
brands that are requestingmodels, the casting director
will take a look at everythingall of the agents have
submitted, and from there, theyask specific models to cast or
self tape or go see them inperson. So if you're asked to
(09:55):
send in a self tape, casting oraudition, then you're like
pretty much halfway there. or tobooking the job. But oh, there's
so many girls are models thatall these casting directors see.
So I cast for, like 100 jobs andI book to it's like that type of
those types of numbers.
Rhaime Kim (10:14):
Wow. So it's like 2%. That's, it's like finding a
job really like a competitivejob. But it's probably even
slimmer considering that of allthe people who submitted their
materials. Maybe you get castedand then you get hired. And so
the real percentage is actuallyquite low.
Karlly Feng (10:32):
Yeah, I think this is the case for many models. But
obviously, there's models whoare booking jobs like, Yeah,
four times, five times six timesa month. So just depends on it
depends on the model.
Rhaime Kim (10:42):
Who was your first booking? And what was it like to
care back?
Karlly Feng (10:47):
My first booking was Adidas.
Rhaime Kim (10:49):
That's insane. Like, that's a really amazing first
client, right?
Karlly Feng (10:54):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to hear that I had booked
that client, it was for acommercial. They had me do
basketball, soccer and running.
Yeah, basically playing thosesports. But that goes back to
being able to cast and self tapemy abilities, I suppose. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it was a reallyfun first client to book,
Rhaime Kim (11:16):
you must have been so proud. Was there video
content? Or was it like a lot ofphoto assets? Like what came out
of that? Shoot?
Karlly Feng (11:24):
It was video content. Okay. Wow, that's
Rhaime Kim (11:27):
pretty intense, right? Especially as your first
job?
Karlly Feng (11:30):
Yeah. But really, it was them telling me to like
play basketball, or them tellingyou to run and just like, look,
so how did you
Rhaime Kim (11:38):
like prepare for that, like from hearing back
that you're confirmed for thebooking until the shoot date?
How much time did you have? Andwere there ways in which you
Karlly Feng (11:49):
prepared a bit from when I was confirmed to when
they shot was probably no morethan a week or two? Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. things very quickly. Yeah.
I will be casting for thingsthat shoot next week, for
example. Yeah. Wow. So. And interms of preparation, I didn't
really do much to prepare, theydidn't give any explicit
instructions. So it's justknowing that I have to show up
(12:12):
at a certain time on a certainday.
Rhaime Kim (12:14):
You're a petite model, you mentioned that you've
looked up to a lot of Asianmodels and stuff. So I'm
curious, like, do you thinkhaving a more diverse background
flows into the type of work youdo as a model?
Karlly Feng (12:28):
I don't think it does, necessarily. Yeah. I do
notice that when I'm on set, I'musually one of the few or only
Asian models. But I do think ingeneral brands are trying to be
more diverse, which is what Ilove to hear.
Rhaime Kim (12:46):
Yeah, definitely.
Like, we're not that old. Buteven when we were growing up, I
just remember looking at, it's avery classic example, but like
Victoria's Secret and all that.
So I feel like, you know, somany brands try to just include
diverse, like body types now,and, and racial backgrounds and
all that. So that's really greatto hear. I guess, with the rise
(13:09):
of influencers. I wonder if thatactually has helped brands
realize that as long as you havean audience that connects with
you, that's the most importantthing. You're a product manager
at Microsoft. I mean, that's afantastic job. If you're just
doing that, that would beamazing. And so do you find it
challenging to balance your nineto five job and your modeling
(13:32):
career?
Karlly Feng (13:32):
It definitely requires some planning. Yeah,
sometimes I get requests toaudition or in person cast or a
job. And there's not a lot ofturnaround time. Right. So I
have to make sure that I'mgenerally on top of my
Rhaime Kim (13:48):
shit. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But
Karlly Feng (13:52):
that being said, I have some flexibility, because I
work from home. And if I everhave to cast for something in
person, I can schedule thecasting around my meeting this
in the sense that, yeah,generally I can show up within a
certain window of time, okay.
And I can just plan to show upin between meetings. If I'm
doing a self tape, then I'lljust self tape in the morning
and then edit it, send it in,and then I'll log on for
Rhaime Kim (14:14):
work working in tech, we have to be so grateful
for that. And COVID the pandemicis obviously an awful thing. But
the fact that it's led to moreflexibility for more people
generally, is just a really goodthing. It makes it a lot more
feasible for you to evenconsider having this part time
job. Yeah. Do you find itexhausting, though, like
(14:38):
constantly creating contentneeding to look out for your
full time work and modelingbecause for me, I'm just getting
started with my podcast, butit's like a lot at first, you
have so much like energy andyou're just so excited to do all
this stuff. But while I haven'trun a marathon yet, I do think
(15:00):
It is like a marathon and everywhat everybody says all the
motivational YouTube videosiWatch tells me that you have to
be consistent and that like,You're not always going to have
like willpower, but consistencyis the key to success over time.
And so I'm curious like for you,do you find the modeling work?
Super energizing? And that'slike a worthwhile balance? Or do
(15:23):
you also struggle with okay,like, I do have to be
consistent, I do have to createcontent, like, What's your
relationship with your work as amodel and YouTuber?
Karlly Feng (15:32):
I really love being on set and meeting all have
these new people with so manydifferent backgrounds? Yeah, and
I just love being able to showmy more creative side and my
personality, yeah, shoots. Thatbeing said, the introverted part
of me gets really exhaustedafter seven days, because I do
have to be on and I want to benetworking and meeting all these
(15:55):
new people. I think as far asthe content creation, I totally
understand where you're comingfrom, because I started my
YouTube journey around six toseven months ago now. Yeah. And
I tried to be consistent,totally, it's really hard to
come up with new ideas andexecute on a weekly basis. And I
think part of that is coming upwith like a flow, and a process
(16:18):
that makes things easier. Yeah.
But I am still trying to figureout like, what sticks with my
audience, and how to connectwith my audience. So it's
something that I'm also figuringout as I go along this journey.
Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (16:31):
definitely. And would you say like bias to
action? Is that something youkind of live by? Or what are
your thoughts on planning versusdoing and making sure you like,
meet deadlines? Like, how do youthink about that balance,
Karlly Feng (16:46):
I'm definitely more of a bias toward action type of
person. I think if I weren't, Iwould never have started my
YouTube channel. Like, I knewthat my first 10 to 50 videos,
were not going to be great. AndI'm still figuring out how to
make my videos better. But Ijust wanted to give myself a
safe space to put my creationsand I knew that they were going
(17:11):
to get better. I just wanted tostart doing it. Yeah. And then
once I got over the anxiety ofputting myself out there, then I
wanted to, like start thinkingabout, okay, how am I going to
monetize? How am I going to turnthis business? And how am I
going to grow a community? Fromthis? Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (17:31):
those are my ultimate goals. Yeah,
definitely, like the communityaspect, like really important.
And it's hard. I mean, contentcreation is a huge business. But
you can apply some of the samelearnings from being in the
corporate world of knowing yourtarget audience. It sounds so
obvious, but it's actuallyreally hard. And that's a
(17:52):
problem that I think about withmy podcast, I'm just like, do I
need to keep churning outpodcasts? And then like, all
think about that,
Karlly Feng (18:00):
I think also like, curating the type of audience
you want to build. That's alsosomething I'm trying to figure
out as well.
Rhaime Kim (18:07):
Yeah. By creation, is that reaching the right
people? Exactly. It's a lot ofpeople out there.
Karlly Feng (18:14):
And not everyone's for me, and I'm not for
everyone. So like, how do I findthat group of people that I can
really connect with?
Rhaime Kim (18:20):
Yeah, definitely.
Was it scary? putting yourselfout there? You mentioned that
you're, you told yourself, okay,my first 10 to 50 videos are
gonna be like, not so great. Butthen you're like you called it a
safe space? And I'm like, How isit safe? If everybody can see
it, whether it's at workdistance, or close family
members, distant and closefriends? Like, what was it like
(18:42):
to put yourself out there? Andthen how have you thought about
that? Like, because you said,you're an introvert. And so
putting yourself out there? Imean, it's a lot.
Karlly Feng (18:50):
I had to prepare myself when I was thinking about
starting my YouTube channel. Andthe way I did that was by
starting a blog first. Oh, yeah.
For like, my whole life. I wasjust, I was pretty opposed to
posting on social media. Notthat I didn't, I just was never
like public, or I posted like,once every six months. Yeah. But
(19:10):
I realized that if I was tryingto build a modeling career, I
needed my Instagram public, Ineeded to start building a
brand. Yeah. And one way that Ithought about doing that was
starting a YouTube channel. So Iwanted to challenge myself to
really put myself out there inthe beginning for the first five
to seven videos. I was prettynervous putting my videos out
(19:31):
there. Yeah, but now I see it asmore of an exciting thing to my
week.
Rhaime Kim (19:36):
Yes,
Karlly Feng (19:37):
I upload every Tuesday.
Rhaime Kim (19:39):
Every Tuesday, everybody, look for Carly bang.
Karlly Feng (19:44):
And it's so fun to see. I'm still experimenting
with my content, right? And it'sso fun to see what content
sticks with people. And I'verealized that it's some of my
lifestyle content. It's some ofmy personal finance tips. And I
think I'm still iterating AndI'm still figuring out what
people want to see
Rhaime Kim (20:04):
that reminds me a lot about the work we do every
day as product managers, andalso being in tech, given that
there are some parallels betweenlike self improvement, and it's
always like an iterativeprocess. Are there any learnings
that you've had that could beuseful or used in your work as a
(20:25):
model or a YouTuber?
Karlly Feng (20:27):
So I think product managers have very much of a
Dewar's mindset, right? Like, wehave to plan out what we want
for the next two weeks to onemonth to three months, and so
on. Yeah. And I kind ofenvisioned that for my modeling
career in the sense that I'malways thinking about what I
want next. So in my quarterlymeetings with my agency, I will
(20:50):
say, okay, these are the brandsI want to work with. Let's go.
And here are the markets. I wantto be signed in Nice. And I
don't always meet those goals,right. But every quarter, I try
to take some action that helpsme get toward those goals. Yeah,
just that much more.
Rhaime Kim (21:08):
You mentioned that modeling for you is awesome,
because it's this way for you tobe like really creative. I'm
curious, like, Have you alwaysidentified as somebody who's
creative? Or did you surpriseyourself at you know, finding
this such a necessary orfulfilling outlet?
Karlly Feng (21:26):
I don't know that I considered myself creative in
the sense that growing up, Iwasn't necessarily like the
artsy person or the craftyperson. Yeah. But I found that I
found that when I startedcultivating my interest in
modeling, I realized that I wasalso somewhat interested in
photography. I was interested inediting for a little bit. Yeah,
(21:47):
I found that when I'm learningabout something new. So when I
was starting to learn aboutmodeling, I was also interested
in learning about other aspectsthat go on behind the scenes.
Yeah. And same for YouTube.
Growing up in the group projectswhere I had to make videos, I
never wanted to do the editing.
But now it's so fun to learnabout, like how to make
different effects. And yeah,just make the whole video seem
(22:09):
like a smooth process. It's sofun to learn about how to make
the video just a greatexperience for the viewer.
Rhaime Kim (22:15):
It's interesting you say that? Because I would say
the same. I think if somebodyasked several years back, Hey,
are you creative? I'd be like,no, because I think growing up
like the definition of creativeis quite simple. It's like, can
you draw, can you paint I can,but doesn't come naturally.
Like, I'll do it if I have artclass. But now I feel like
creative freedom is actually oneof my values. I mean, it's also
(22:37):
about what you do. So I'm like,is it a value, but for me, it's
a value. And I see it reflectedin my job as a product manager.
But for me, that's also why it'sbeen so great to work on a
podcast because I can produceand yeah, so I guess if somebody
asked me now, it'd be like, Yes,I am creative, like I need to
create something.
Karlly Feng (22:57):
I love that. And also, I feel like sometimes our
nine to five does not allow usthat space to be creative in the
way that we want to be. And it'snice to channel that elsewhere
and also learn a ton while we'redoing it. Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (23:12):
definitely. In our work, we can be creative in
defining, like, what to buildnext and what the strategy is.
But it has to be within theparameters of not only the
company, but the very specificarea within the company you're
at. So I can totally understandthat. Would you say that you
feel a sense of creativecontrol? Or would you say that a
(23:33):
lot of the work that you createis actually the result of
partnering with the bestphotographers are something like
how much of your work is solocreation? Would you say versus
like, collaborating with othercreators and photographers?
Karlly Feng (23:46):
For modeling? I would say it's very much a
collaboration.
Rhaime Kim (23:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of people behind the scenes,
like you're saying, you'renetworking and stuff, right?
Karlly Feng (23:53):
Right. Even if it's a shoot, where I'm just building
my portfolio, and it's simplythe photographer and myself, I
let them take care of thelighting and the angles and all
of that. And I just take care ofthe poses and the facial
expressions and my movement.
Yeah, in that sense. It's verymuch a collaboration, I think
with YouTube, but I have fullcontrol. And sometimes, I don't
(24:14):
know if I like that, because Idon't want to be thinking about
so many different things. Yeah.
And so I think especially for mytalking head videos, I tried to
very much make it into a processwhere my tripods at the same
height all the time, and I'msitting at the same spot every
time. Yeah, just so that itmakes the process easier, I
think for vlogs. If I want to bea little bit more creative, I'll
(24:35):
think about the different shotsthat I want to include in the
final vlog or that type oflifestyle video.
Rhaime Kim (24:40):
What are some challenges that you're actively
working on in your work as amodel and YouTuber,
Karlly Feng (24:48):
so I'm still trying to get signed in multiple
markets. I'm currently signed inBoston, and I'm still trying to
get signed in Chicago, Seattleagain, and potentially even
internationally. I'm also Solooking to be booking regularly,
I think so once a month wouldmake me very happy right now.
Yeah, for YouTube, I'm stilltrying to figure out my bread
(25:08):
and butter content. I, I'm alsostill trying to grow my
audience. And I'm still workingon putting my process in place
where it becomes really easy forme to be putting out that one
video a week, and potentiallyeven expanding to two videos a
week. From content go,
Rhaime Kim (25:26):
it's a lot, it's really a lot. You've mentioned
the word process a few times, itsounds like a business principle
to have process, like anoperational process. And I guess
it's very much the same in yourlike YouTube creation,
especially as you try to scale.
Karlly Feng (25:42):
Exactly. And I think without a process, it's
really hard to scale. Yeah. Andespecially if I want to be
putting out two videos a weeklike I need to scale. What
advice
Rhaime Kim (25:53):
would you give yourself, if you could talk to
yourself prior to starting yourmodeling journey, figure out
Karlly Feng (26:00):
what type of career you want to build as a model,
and figure out what type ofmodeling jobs that you could
potentially book with your face,your height, your body type,
figure out what types ofagencies can book you that job,
and that doesn't necessarilyeven have to be in the exact
city that you live in. Lots ofagencies will sign models around
the US not every agency, butthere are definitely other
(26:22):
agencies that will sign modelsthat aren't even in their state,
take a good Digital's apply toagencies. And if you don't get
the type of feedback you want,or you get interest from
agencies that you don't know, ifwould be a good fit, then just
wait three to four to sixmonths, take your Digital's
again and apply again. And inbetween that time it's worth
(26:45):
collaborating with photographersbuilding your portfolio. Yeah,
practicing how to modelessentially,
Rhaime Kim (26:51):
what advice would you give others who are entering
like the influencing businessand the modeling business or
really at large, like anybodywho's starting a side hustle? Or
is at this starting journey asan entrepreneur?
Karlly Feng (27:05):
I think it's really hard to do. But just taking the
first step toward your goals. Ithink when you start taking your
first step, you know what youlike, what you don't like, you
know what you need to iterate?
Yeah. And if that business isn'tfor you, then you can pivot
sooner than you would have ifyou started six months later. So
for example, when I started myYouTube channel, I didn't really
(27:28):
know what I wanted to talkabout. So I started talking
about starting YouTube, I foundthat I connected with a good
amount of people in my startingmy YouTube journey. Yeah. But
I've realized that, I don't knowif I want to build my brand
around starting YouTube. So I'vesince pivoted, and started
talking about what I really doenjoy talking about, which is
(27:49):
like makeup, personal finance,my lifestyle, all of
Rhaime Kim (27:52):
that realm. Yeah, definitely. And it's cool,
because still, those startingYouTube journey videos are on
your channel, right? So it'sstill out there. But you can
still iterate and you can changeyour brand, you can change your
strategy any day. And there'snothing wrong with that. I love
that the internet allows us sothat we can iterate and it's not
a huge upfront investment, tojust try a lot of different
(28:16):
things and see what sticks. Youmentioned also that you would
encourage people to just takethe first step towards your
goal. And also your goal doesn'thave to be super defined, right?
It could just be like, I want tobe a model and be paid for that
work. I love that. Because I'vebeen wanting to interview
founders and entrepreneurs foralmost 10 years. And I don't
(28:37):
know why I didn't do it. For me,how I got started is I would
just have these, you know, youhave these thoughts in the back
of your mind of I should dothis. And it could be something
as simple as Oh, I should wipeoff that like toothpaste mark on
my bathroom window. Or evensaying yes to yourself. Like, I
want to order this dish, butit'd be better value if I
(28:58):
ordered this other dish. But Istarted just saying yes to
myself, and also hearing andtaking action on little things
in the back of my mind. And forme that helped me to finally
just find whoever was willing todo the first interview. Thank
you so much, Kevin. And thenlike go with it. So I do think
it's so crazy that like you havethis thought percolating in the
(29:20):
back of your mind. And you justhave to do it and you have to
keep proving to yourself thatit's not hard to do those things
in the back of your mind. Imean, it is hard but to take
that first step is always lesshard than you may initially
like. Think it might be.
Karlly Feng (29:36):
I think the importance in taking that first
step is you go from someone whothinks about can I even do that
too? I am doing that. Let's goYeah. And and that's a huge
mindset shift. It like builds somuch confidence it does and you
can sleep well at night knowingthat you're taking steps toward
your goal totally. And if youfail, then you will never regret
(29:59):
not having tried.
Rhaime Kim (30:00):
Thank you that makes me feel better about myself. But
it's so true. Like, I think itin general, it just shows you
that you can take control ofyour life and you're actually
like, on the horse, bring itsomewhere. It's not like a rodeo
where you're like, oh my god,like life is happening to me.
It's like, No, I can define howmy life is going. So I
(30:21):
definitely totally agree withyou. Carly, where can we find
you? Where can the audiencereach you?
Karlly Feng (30:28):
Instagram? I am at Carly thing K ar LYFENG and
YouTube. I'm also currentlything Yeah, cool. And how can
the audience help you? Are
Rhaime Kim (30:39):
you trying to book any specific clients or
Karlly Feng (30:42):
check out my YouTube, subscribe, follow me on
Instagram, and check out myblog, the humble hyphenated.com.
Rhaime Kim (30:48):
Thank you so much, Carly. I really appreciate your
time. This is on a Saturdaymorning. It's so good to keep in
touch after our time, miserable,and the TA our line and the
center of it at Brown. So thanksso much, Carly. I really
appreciate it.
Karlly Feng (31:04):
I love this conversation. Thanks for having
me, Ryan.
Karlly Feng is a model and YouTuber. She's also a
(00:03):
product manager at Microsoft,Karlly and I met while studying
computer science at BrownUniversity. Currently, this is
not the Center for IT. This iswe're recording.
Karlly Feng (00:16):
I'm very glad as well.
Rhaime Kim (00:18):
Tell me about your modeling career. Who are you
signed with right now? And whatbrands have you worked with?
Karlly Feng (00:25):
I started modeling around two to three years ago.
I'm currently signed withbicoastal management. The most
notable brands I've worked withare Adidas, L'Oreal Brookstone
to name a few. I mostly model inthe commercial beauty and a
little bit in the fitness space.
That's really where like mybread and butter lies.
Rhaime Kim (00:47):
I remember you were a pole vaulter. Yeah. Brown. So
you were a Do you want toathlete, which is so crazy. I
can't imagine like when I seepole vaulters, I don't know how
you'll do it. So do you thinkthat background has influenced
the types of brands you workwith? Not
Karlly Feng (01:03):
so much the types of brands I work with? As much
as I think the confidence? Yeah,it's given me Whoa. Yeah, I
think just knowing like my bodyhas done and can do really cool
shit. Yeah, lets me just beconfident in knowing that. If a
brand wants me to cast for a,like more athletic type of
(01:24):
shoot, and they asked me to sendin a self tape, then I can,
like, do it. And I can know thatI look good doing it. Yeah. Oh,
my
Rhaime Kim (01:31):
God, I didn't even make that connection. That's
really cool. Did you start polevaulting when you're younger?
Karlly Feng (01:37):
I started freshman year of high school. So when I
was working,
Rhaime Kim (01:41):
what about modeling is the most fun for you like, is
it getting ready for modeling,
Karlly Feng (01:47):
I definitely love getting ready. It's more. So the
idea that there's so many subtlemovements that can make or break
a photo, the aspects that I cancontrol generally are my facial
expression. And the way my bodyis angled toward the camera
outside of that, like otherpeople have already taken care
of the lighting, wardrobemakeup. And I think it's just so
(02:08):
interesting how like, you playwith the facial expressions
along with the way you move yourbody. And you can get such
different images from suchsubtle movements. And I think
that's always really fun todiscover and play around with.
Do you,
Rhaime Kim (02:23):
like do a lot of self discovery when taking
photos of yourself? Or do you doa lot of research? Like how do
you think about different poses?
Karlly Feng (02:30):
So I definitely practice in front of a mirror. I
have a mood board. So when Icollaborate with photographers,
I'll generally show them an ideaof what I'd like to aim for. And
that images I want. Yeah. And sosometimes it's even bringing my
mood board and working with thephotographer in front of me and
thinking about where thephotographer has to be, and like
(02:52):
what my body has to look like,yes, we're shooting. Yeah, I
didn't realize that you couldalso come prepare to a photo
shoot.
Rhaime Kim (02:58):
I mean, maybe that's a super obvious thing. But I
didn't realize that like is thatwhen you're engaging in
photographer
Karlly Feng (03:04):
Exactly. When I'm trying to build my portfolio?
I'm in control of what images Iwant to add. Yeah, right. So
totally, sometimes it's like,more colorful, blocky makeup
looks. Sometimes it's more likemovement inspired editorial
style photos. It's up to me tobuild that portfolio I want. I
tried to come very prepared toshoots that I setup. And then if
(03:25):
it's a client that's bugging me,then I am just wherever they
want me to be.
Rhaime Kim (03:29):
Are there certain models that you look up to? Or
is it more like you go onPinterest? And do your research
there? How do you build thatmood board? Oh, yeah,
Karlly Feng (03:38):
that's a good question. So I, for my mood
board, I separate it intodifferent styles. So I have like
a fitness mood board, I have amakeup mood board, the beauty
mood board. Yeah, more likefashion editorial type of mood
board. Okay. And depending onwhat I'm trying to add to my
portfolio, I will drawinspiration from those specific
mood boards. And I feel likePinterest makes it really easy
(04:00):
to look for the types of imagesyou want. They suggest really
great images already. If you'reable to find like a few starting
out that you're looking for, asfar as models that I look up to,
I have always really lucked upto be one who is like the OG
Asian supermodel. And I followedher for a while. I think I
discovered her in high school.
Yeah, so it's been really fun tosee the stuff that she's in.
(04:23):
That's the main one. There'sother like Asian models that I
follow as well. And it's cool tosee like what types of bookings
that Asian models can get. Yeah,can continue to get, of course,
Rhaime Kim (04:35):
do you look at the brands that they've worked with?
Or do you more look at the kindof their makeup or hair?
Karlly Feng (04:42):
It's a little bit of both? Probably primarily the
the brands? Yeah, they work withbecause those are the brands
that are looking for Asianmodels. So those are the brands
that I could potentially beworking with also.
Rhaime Kim (04:52):
So you talked about being prepared for photoshoots
that you've booked? Did you gothrough that process to have
photos For you reached out toagencies and booked your first
clients, what was thatpreparation process like, from
when you had this idea ofwanting to be professional about
modeling up until the pointwhere you got that first deal or
(05:13):
you're able to sign you're withan agency?
Karlly Feng (05:16):
It's quite widely known that you don't need a
portfolio. If you're juststarting out. That's great.
Yeah, you just need to takeDigital's which are the basic,
but as of your like, headshotprofile, both sides, a three
quarter profile. Yeah. And thena three quarter body shot. And
you'd want to be wearing like atank top and jeans and maybe
(05:37):
heels. But that being said, I dothink a portfolio really helps
you to like if an agency isinterested in signing you, and
they're interested in yourDigital's then they'll probably
follow up and be like, can yousend me a link to your
portfolio? Yeah. So it ishelpful. I didn't have a great
portfolio. When I started.
Rhaime Kim (05:54):
I think that just goes to show that if any of you
are out there and you want amodel, you have no excuse. Let's
go, you know, did you use a selftimer? Or did you have friends
who helped you take some ofthose initial photos?
Karlly Feng (06:09):
Yeah, I will say the one thing to your to your
last question is it is reallyhelpful to have a well curated
Instagram. Yeah, these days, ifan agency is interested in
booking you, even if you don'thave a portfolio, they will be
looking at your Instagram andseeing like what your face looks
like, and what your body lookslike. Yeah, in the quote
unquote, wild. Yeah. And as faras taking my own photos.
(06:33):
Actually, a Shawn took my firstDigital's our mutual friend. Oh,
my God,
Rhaime Kim (06:37):
no way. Yeah, I love that I actually didn't know.
Karlly Feng (06:42):
I also went to Brown also studied computer
science and is actually also aproduct manager. He was the only
photographer friend I knew inSeattle at the time where Yeah,
I just reached out to him. I waslike, Hey, can you take my
Digital's and then those got mesigned with my first agency.
Rhaime Kim (06:58):
That's so cool. For a model that starting out if you
want to do like professionallike photo shoots and all that,
would you recommend signing withan agency? And was that for you
the obvious first step intobeing a professional model,
Karlly Feng (07:12):
I think there's a couple of ways to go about it.
It's either being represented ornot being represented. And
there's pros and cons to both. Ithink if you're starting out,
and you have no knowledge aboutthe industry, it's really
helpful to be represented by anagency. Yeah. But that being
said, an agency generally takes20% or 10%, of whatever you
make. And it it's standard.
(07:32):
Yeah. And after taxes, it's agood chunk out of what you would
originally be making if youweren't represented. That being
said, there's also a lot ofagencies out there that don't
have the best practices, eventhe most highly known agencies.
There's like a lot of models whotalk about really high website,
these are being told to payweird prices for like model
(07:56):
apartments and all of thatstuff. You have to be careful
when you're signing with yourfirst agency. I would say go on
Reddit. There's a lot ofinformation on Reddit, there's a
lot of information online. Ifany agency is asking you to pay
up front, that's probably mostlikely a red flag. Yeah,
especially if they're lookingthere. Especially if they're
asking you to pay for classes orphotoshoots. From from
(08:19):
photographers within the agency.
Yeah. But if you're unsigned,there's also ways to book jobs.
That way, you can go ontocasting websites, you can follow
casting accounts on Instagram,and you might not know your
worth in the beginning, which isalso a little bit dangerous,
because you could be signingaway rights that you didn't even
(08:40):
know or a thing. Yeah, sothere's pros and cons to both.
If you know what you need toknow about the fashion industry,
then being unsigned can be agreat way to make money.
Rhaime Kim (08:51):
So once you signed with bicoastal, how long did it
take for you to get your firstcasting and then your first
signed?
Karlly Feng (09:00):
photoshoot? Okay, so, castings come quite
frequently. Okay. Obviously,they're slow periods. I think it
took me less than a month to getmy first casting not so
Rhaime Kim (09:11):
exciting. Yeah. What was that? Like? Were you like,
oh my god, I made it. Oh mygosh. I wouldn't be like, Oh my
god, you guys. I'm a model.
Karlly Feng (09:19):
Quick aside castings are when you're like,
asked to audition.
Rhaime Kim (09:23):
I know. Okay, still okay. Maybe. If it's okay. Don't
they have a pre process? Solike, they would invite people
to a casting Right, exactly.
Karlly Feng (09:33):
So the way the process works is, you're signed
with an agency, the agencysubmits you to all of these
brands that are requestingmodels, the casting director
will take a look at everythingall of the agents have
submitted, and from there, theyask specific models to cast or
self tape or go see them inperson. So if you're asked to
(09:55):
send in a self tape, casting oraudition, then you're like
pretty much halfway there. or tobooking the job. But oh, there's
so many girls are models thatall these casting directors see.
So I cast for, like 100 jobs andI book to it's like that type of
those types of numbers.
Rhaime Kim (10:14):
Wow. So it's like 2%. That's, it's like finding a
job really like a competitivejob. But it's probably even
slimmer considering that of allthe people who submitted their
materials. Maybe you get castedand then you get hired. And so
the real percentage is actuallyquite low.
Karlly Feng (10:32):
Yeah, I think this is the case for many models. But
obviously, there's models whoare booking jobs like, Yeah,
four times, five times six timesa month. So just depends on it
depends on the model.
Rhaime Kim (10:42):
Who was your first booking? And what was it like to
care back?
Karlly Feng (10:47):
My first booking was Adidas.
Rhaime Kim (10:49):
That's insane. Like, that's a really amazing first
client, right?
Karlly Feng (10:54):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to hear that I had booked
that client, it was for acommercial. They had me do
basketball, soccer and running.
Yeah, basically playing thosesports. But that goes back to
being able to cast and self tapemy abilities, I suppose. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it was a reallyfun first client to book,
Rhaime Kim (11:16):
you must have been so proud. Was there video
content? Or was it like a lot ofphoto assets? Like what came out
of that? Shoot?
Karlly Feng (11:24):
It was video content. Okay. Wow, that's
Rhaime Kim (11:27):
pretty intense, right? Especially as your first
job?
Karlly Feng (11:30):
Yeah. But really, it was them telling me to like
play basketball, or them tellingyou to run and just like, look,
so how did you
Rhaime Kim (11:38):
like prepare for that, like from hearing back
that you're confirmed for thebooking until the shoot date?
How much time did you have? Andwere there ways in which you
Karlly Feng (11:49):
prepared a bit from when I was confirmed to when
they shot was probably no morethan a week or two? Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. things very quickly. Yeah.
I will be casting for thingsthat shoot next week, for
example. Yeah. Wow. So. And interms of preparation, I didn't
really do much to prepare, theydidn't give any explicit
instructions. So it's justknowing that I have to show up
(12:12):
at a certain time on a certainday.
Rhaime Kim (12:14):
You're a petite model, you mentioned that you've
looked up to a lot of Asianmodels and stuff. So I'm
curious, like, do you thinkhaving a more diverse background
flows into the type of work youdo as a model?
Karlly Feng (12:28):
I don't think it does, necessarily. Yeah. I do
notice that when I'm on set, I'musually one of the few or only
Asian models. But I do think ingeneral brands are trying to be
more diverse, which is what Ilove to hear.
Rhaime Kim (12:46):
Yeah, definitely.
Like, we're not that old. Buteven when we were growing up, I
just remember looking at, it's avery classic example, but like
Victoria's Secret and all that.
So I feel like, you know, somany brands try to just include
diverse, like body types now,and, and racial backgrounds and
all that. So that's really greatto hear. I guess, with the rise
(13:09):
of influencers. I wonder if thatactually has helped brands
realize that as long as you havean audience that connects with
you, that's the most importantthing. You're a product manager
at Microsoft. I mean, that's afantastic job. If you're just
doing that, that would beamazing. And so do you find it
challenging to balance your nineto five job and your modeling
(13:32):
career?
Karlly Feng (13:32):
It definitely requires some planning. Yeah,
sometimes I get requests toaudition or in person cast or a
job. And there's not a lot ofturnaround time. Right. So I
have to make sure that I'mgenerally on top of my
Rhaime Kim (13:48):
shit. Yeah, of course. Yeah. But
Karlly Feng (13:52):
that being said, I have some flexibility, because I
work from home. And if I everhave to cast for something in
person, I can schedule thecasting around my meeting this
in the sense that, yeah,generally I can show up within a
certain window of time, okay.
And I can just plan to show upin between meetings. If I'm
doing a self tape, then I'lljust self tape in the morning
and then edit it, send it in,and then I'll log on for
Rhaime Kim (14:14):
work working in tech, we have to be so grateful
for that. And COVID the pandemicis obviously an awful thing. But
the fact that it's led to moreflexibility for more people
generally, is just a really goodthing. It makes it a lot more
feasible for you to evenconsider having this part time
job. Yeah. Do you find itexhausting, though, like
(14:38):
constantly creating contentneeding to look out for your
full time work and modelingbecause for me, I'm just getting
started with my podcast, butit's like a lot at first, you
have so much like energy andyou're just so excited to do all
this stuff. But while I haven'trun a marathon yet, I do think
(15:00):
It is like a marathon and everywhat everybody says all the
motivational YouTube videosiWatch tells me that you have to
be consistent and that like,You're not always going to have
like willpower, but consistencyis the key to success over time.
And so I'm curious like for you,do you find the modeling work?
Super energizing? And that'slike a worthwhile balance? Or do
(15:23):
you also struggle with okay,like, I do have to be
consistent, I do have to createcontent, like, What's your
relationship with your work as amodel and YouTuber?
Karlly Feng (15:32):
I really love being on set and meeting all have
these new people with so manydifferent backgrounds? Yeah, and
I just love being able to showmy more creative side and my
personality, yeah, shoots. Thatbeing said, the introverted part
of me gets really exhaustedafter seven days, because I do
have to be on and I want to benetworking and meeting all these
(15:55):
new people. I think as far asthe content creation, I totally
understand where you're comingfrom, because I started my
YouTube journey around six toseven months ago now. Yeah. And
I tried to be consistent,totally, it's really hard to
come up with new ideas andexecute on a weekly basis. And I
think part of that is coming upwith like a flow, and a process
(16:18):
that makes things easier. Yeah.
But I am still trying to figureout like, what sticks with my
audience, and how to connectwith my audience. So it's
something that I'm also figuringout as I go along this journey.
Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (16:31):
definitely. And would you say like bias to
action? Is that something youkind of live by? Or what are
your thoughts on planning versusdoing and making sure you like,
meet deadlines? Like, how do youthink about that balance,
Karlly Feng (16:46):
I'm definitely more of a bias toward action type of
person. I think if I weren't, Iwould never have started my
YouTube channel. Like, I knewthat my first 10 to 50 videos,
were not going to be great. AndI'm still figuring out how to
make my videos better. But Ijust wanted to give myself a
safe space to put my creationsand I knew that they were going
(17:11):
to get better. I just wanted tostart doing it. Yeah. And then
once I got over the anxiety ofputting myself out there, then I
wanted to, like start thinkingabout, okay, how am I going to
monetize? How am I going to turnthis business? And how am I
going to grow a community? Fromthis? Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (17:31):
those are my ultimate goals. Yeah,
definitely, like the communityaspect, like really important.
And it's hard. I mean, contentcreation is a huge business. But
you can apply some of the samelearnings from being in the
corporate world of knowing yourtarget audience. It sounds so
obvious, but it's actuallyreally hard. And that's a
(17:52):
problem that I think about withmy podcast, I'm just like, do I
need to keep churning outpodcasts? And then like, all
think about that,
Karlly Feng (18:00):
I think also like, curating the type of audience
you want to build. That's alsosomething I'm trying to figure
out as well.
Rhaime Kim (18:07):
Yeah. By creation, is that reaching the right
people? Exactly. It's a lot ofpeople out there.
Karlly Feng (18:14):
And not everyone's for me, and I'm not for
everyone. So like, how do I findthat group of people that I can
really connect with?
Rhaime Kim (18:20):
Yeah, definitely.
Was it scary? putting yourselfout there? You mentioned that
you're, you told yourself, okay,my first 10 to 50 videos are
gonna be like, not so great. Butthen you're like you called it a
safe space? And I'm like, How isit safe? If everybody can see
it, whether it's at workdistance, or close family
members, distant and closefriends? Like, what was it like
(18:42):
to put yourself out there? Andthen how have you thought about
that? Like, because you said,you're an introvert. And so
putting yourself out there? Imean, it's a lot.
Karlly Feng (18:50):
I had to prepare myself when I was thinking about
starting my YouTube channel. Andthe way I did that was by
starting a blog first. Oh, yeah.
For like, my whole life. I wasjust, I was pretty opposed to
posting on social media. Notthat I didn't, I just was never
like public, or I posted like,once every six months. Yeah. But
(19:10):
I realized that if I was tryingto build a modeling career, I
needed my Instagram public, Ineeded to start building a
brand. Yeah. And one way that Ithought about doing that was
starting a YouTube channel. So Iwanted to challenge myself to
really put myself out there inthe beginning for the first five
to seven videos. I was prettynervous putting my videos out
(19:31):
there. Yeah, but now I see it asmore of an exciting thing to my
week.
Rhaime Kim (19:36):
Yes,
Karlly Feng (19:37):
I upload every Tuesday.
Rhaime Kim (19:39):
Every Tuesday, everybody, look for Carly bang.
Karlly Feng (19:44):
And it's so fun to see. I'm still experimenting
with my content, right? And it'sso fun to see what content
sticks with people. And I'verealized that it's some of my
lifestyle content. It's some ofmy personal finance tips. And I
think I'm still iterating AndI'm still figuring out what
people want to see
Rhaime Kim (20:04):
that reminds me a lot about the work we do every
day as product managers, andalso being in tech, given that
there are some parallels betweenlike self improvement, and it's
always like an iterativeprocess. Are there any learnings
that you've had that could beuseful or used in your work as a
(20:25):
model or a YouTuber?
Karlly Feng (20:27):
So I think product managers have very much of a
Dewar's mindset, right? Like, wehave to plan out what we want
for the next two weeks to onemonth to three months, and so
on. Yeah. And I kind ofenvisioned that for my modeling
career in the sense that I'malways thinking about what I
want next. So in my quarterlymeetings with my agency, I will
(20:50):
say, okay, these are the brandsI want to work with. Let's go.
And here are the markets. I wantto be signed in Nice. And I
don't always meet those goals,right. But every quarter, I try
to take some action that helpsme get toward those goals. Yeah,
just that much more.
Rhaime Kim (21:08):
You mentioned that modeling for you is awesome,
because it's this way for you tobe like really creative. I'm
curious, like, Have you alwaysidentified as somebody who's
creative? Or did you surpriseyourself at you know, finding
this such a necessary orfulfilling outlet?
Karlly Feng (21:26):
I don't know that I considered myself creative in
the sense that growing up, Iwasn't necessarily like the
artsy person or the craftyperson. Yeah. But I found that I
found that when I startedcultivating my interest in
modeling, I realized that I wasalso somewhat interested in
photography. I was interested inediting for a little bit. Yeah,
(21:47):
I found that when I'm learningabout something new. So when I
was starting to learn aboutmodeling, I was also interested
in learning about other aspectsthat go on behind the scenes.
Yeah. And same for YouTube.
Growing up in the group projectswhere I had to make videos, I
never wanted to do the editing.
But now it's so fun to learnabout, like how to make
different effects. And yeah,just make the whole video seem
(22:09):
like a smooth process. It's sofun to learn about how to make
the video just a greatexperience for the viewer.
Rhaime Kim (22:15):
It's interesting you say that? Because I would say
the same. I think if somebodyasked several years back, Hey,
are you creative? I'd be like,no, because I think growing up
like the definition of creativeis quite simple. It's like, can
you draw, can you paint I can,but doesn't come naturally.
Like, I'll do it if I have artclass. But now I feel like
creative freedom is actually oneof my values. I mean, it's also
(22:37):
about what you do. So I'm like,is it a value, but for me, it's
a value. And I see it reflectedin my job as a product manager.
But for me, that's also why it'sbeen so great to work on a
podcast because I can produceand yeah, so I guess if somebody
asked me now, it'd be like, Yes,I am creative, like I need to
create something.
Karlly Feng (22:57):
I love that. And also, I feel like sometimes our
nine to five does not allow usthat space to be creative in the
way that we want to be. And it'snice to channel that elsewhere
and also learn a ton while we'redoing it. Yeah,
Rhaime Kim (23:12):
definitely. In our work, we can be creative in
defining, like, what to buildnext and what the strategy is.
But it has to be within theparameters of not only the
company, but the very specificarea within the company you're
at. So I can totally understandthat. Would you say that you
feel a sense of creativecontrol? Or would you say that a
(23:33):
lot of the work that you createis actually the result of
partnering with the bestphotographers are something like
how much of your work is solocreation? Would you say versus
like, collaborating with othercreators and photographers?
Karlly Feng (23:46):
For modeling? I would say it's very much a
collaboration.
Rhaime Kim (23:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of people behind the scenes,
like you're saying, you'renetworking and stuff, right?
Karlly Feng (23:53):
Right. Even if it's a shoot, where I'm just building
my portfolio, and it's simplythe photographer and myself, I
let them take care of thelighting and the angles and all
of that. And I just take care ofthe poses and the facial
expressions and my movement.
Yeah, in that sense. It's verymuch a collaboration, I think
with YouTube, but I have fullcontrol. And sometimes, I don't
(24:14):
know if I like that, because Idon't want to be thinking about
so many different things. Yeah.
And so I think especially for mytalking head videos, I tried to
very much make it into a processwhere my tripods at the same
height all the time, and I'msitting at the same spot every
time. Yeah, just so that itmakes the process easier, I
think for vlogs. If I want to bea little bit more creative, I'll
(24:35):
think about the different shotsthat I want to include in the
final vlog or that type oflifestyle video.
Rhaime Kim (24:40):
What are some challenges that you're actively
working on in your work as amodel and YouTuber,
Karlly Feng (24:48):
so I'm still trying to get signed in multiple
markets. I'm currently signed inBoston, and I'm still trying to
get signed in Chicago, Seattleagain, and potentially even
internationally. I'm also Solooking to be booking regularly,
I think so once a month wouldmake me very happy right now.
Yeah, for YouTube, I'm stilltrying to figure out my bread
(25:08):
and butter content. I, I'm alsostill trying to grow my
audience. And I'm still workingon putting my process in place
where it becomes really easy forme to be putting out that one
video a week, and potentiallyeven expanding to two videos a
week. From content go,
Rhaime Kim (25:26):
it's a lot, it's really a lot. You've mentioned
the word process a few times, itsounds like a business principle
to have process, like anoperational process. And I guess
it's very much the same in yourlike YouTube creation,
especially as you try to scale.
Karlly Feng (25:42):
Exactly. And I think without a process, it's
really hard to scale. Yeah. Andespecially if I want to be
putting out two videos a weeklike I need to scale. What
advice
Rhaime Kim (25:53):
would you give yourself, if you could talk to
yourself prior to starting yourmodeling journey, figure out
Karlly Feng (26:00):
what type of career you want to build as a model,
and figure out what type ofmodeling jobs that you could
potentially book with your face,your height, your body type,
figure out what types ofagencies can book you that job,
and that doesn't necessarilyeven have to be in the exact
city that you live in. Lots ofagencies will sign models around
the US not every agency, butthere are definitely other
(26:22):
agencies that will sign modelsthat aren't even in their state,
take a good Digital's apply toagencies. And if you don't get
the type of feedback you want,or you get interest from
agencies that you don't know, ifwould be a good fit, then just
wait three to four to sixmonths, take your Digital's
again and apply again. And inbetween that time it's worth
(26:45):
collaborating with photographersbuilding your portfolio. Yeah,
practicing how to modelessentially,
Rhaime Kim (26:51):
what advice would you give others who are entering
like the influencing businessand the modeling business or
really at large, like anybodywho's starting a side hustle? Or
is at this starting journey asan entrepreneur?
Karlly Feng (27:05):
I think it's really hard to do. But just taking the
first step toward your goals. Ithink when you start taking your
first step, you know what youlike, what you don't like, you
know what you need to iterate?
Yeah. And if that business isn'tfor you, then you can pivot
sooner than you would have ifyou started six months later. So
for example, when I started myYouTube channel, I didn't really
(27:28):
know what I wanted to talkabout. So I started talking
about starting YouTube, I foundthat I connected with a good
amount of people in my startingmy YouTube journey. Yeah. But
I've realized that, I don't knowif I want to build my brand
around starting YouTube. So I'vesince pivoted, and started
talking about what I really doenjoy talking about, which is
(27:49):
like makeup, personal finance,my lifestyle, all of
Rhaime Kim (27:52):
that realm. Yeah, definitely. And it's cool,
because still, those startingYouTube journey videos are on
your channel, right? So it'sstill out there. But you can
still iterate and you can changeyour brand, you can change your
strategy any day. And there'snothing wrong with that. I love
that the internet allows us sothat we can iterate and it's not
a huge upfront investment, tojust try a lot of different
(28:16):
things and see what sticks. Youmentioned also that you would
encourage people to just takethe first step towards your
goal. And also your goal doesn'thave to be super defined, right?
It could just be like, I want tobe a model and be paid for that
work. I love that. Because I'vebeen wanting to interview
founders and entrepreneurs foralmost 10 years. And I don't
(28:37):
know why I didn't do it. For me,how I got started is I would
just have these, you know, youhave these thoughts in the back
of your mind of I should dothis. And it could be something
as simple as Oh, I should wipeoff that like toothpaste mark on
my bathroom window. Or evensaying yes to yourself. Like, I
want to order this dish, butit'd be better value if I
(28:58):
ordered this other dish. But Istarted just saying yes to
myself, and also hearing andtaking action on little things
in the back of my mind. And forme that helped me to finally
just find whoever was willing todo the first interview. Thank
you so much, Kevin. And thenlike go with it. So I do think
it's so crazy that like you havethis thought percolating in the
(29:20):
back of your mind. And you justhave to do it and you have to
keep proving to yourself thatit's not hard to do those things
in the back of your mind. Imean, it is hard but to take
that first step is always lesshard than you may initially
like. Think it might be.
Karlly Feng (29:36):
I think the importance in taking that first
step is you go from someone whothinks about can I even do that
too? I am doing that. Let's goYeah. And and that's a huge
mindset shift. It like builds somuch confidence it does and you
can sleep well at night knowingthat you're taking steps toward
your goal totally. And if youfail, then you will never regret
(29:59):
not having tried.
Rhaime Kim (30:00):
Thank you that makes me feel better about myself. But
it's so true. Like, I think itin general, it just shows you
that you can take control ofyour life and you're actually
like, on the horse, bring itsomewhere. It's not like a rodeo
where you're like, oh my god,like life is happening to me.
It's like, No, I can define howmy life is going. So I
(30:21):
definitely totally agree withyou. Carly, where can we find
you? Where can the audiencereach you?
Karlly Feng (30:28):
Instagram? I am at Carly thing K ar LYFENG and
YouTube. I'm also currentlything Yeah, cool. And how can
the audience help you? Are
Rhaime Kim (30:39):
you trying to book any specific clients or
Karlly Feng (30:42):
check out my YouTube, subscribe, follow me on
Instagram, and check out myblog, the humble hyphenated.com.
Rhaime Kim (30:48):
Thank you so much, Carly. I really appreciate your
time. This is on a Saturdaymorning. It's so good to keep in
touch after our time, miserable,and the TA our line and the
center of it at Brown. So thanksso much, Carly. I really
appreciate it.
Karlly Feng (31:04):
I love this conversation. Thanks for having
me, Ryan.
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