Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:03):
Welcome back to
Epochal Growth.
I'm Sarah Caminiti and I am sohappy that you're here Today.
We're going to be diving into aconversation that's as timely
as it is crucial how AI istransforming the way we connect
with each other.
My guest, Rob Dwyer, is the VicePresident of Customer
Engagement at Customer Directand Happy T and many of you will
(00:24):
recognize him because he's thehost of Next in Queue, this
fantastic podcast that I had thehonor of being a guest on
recently.
He brings a unique perspectiveon the balance between embracing
technology and preserving thehuman touch in our relationships
.
We're going to discuss thechallenges, the opportunities
and the potential pitfalls ofnavigating this rapidly evolving
(00:46):
landscape how to balance AIintegration with human
connection, the ethical andpractical implications of AI and
the role of personal growth ina tech-driven world.
So, whether you're an AIenthusiast or if you're just
curious about what the futureholds, there's going to be a lot
for you in this episode.
Or if you're just curious aboutwhat the future holds, there's
going to be a lot for you inthis episode.
(01:07):
This is Epochal Growth, episode17, with Rob Dwyer.
Rob Dwyer (01:12):
My name is Rob Dwyer
and some of you may know me and
I hope many people listening andor watching to this podcast
don't know me because if you doknow me, you might be a little
bit heard.
Enough from Rob, let's hearfrom someone else.
But I live in the merry oldland of Oz and I live in just
(01:34):
outside of Wichita, kansas.
It's not actually Wichita, butnobody knows what I'm talking
about if I tell them actuallylive.
Most people have heard ofWichita.
I I grew up in this small town.
I got out as soon as I could, Ileft for the big city.
I lived in Kansas City.
I lived in Minneapolis For 13years, I lived in St Louis and
(01:58):
about a year ago my wife and Imoved back to the same small
town that we both grew up in andwe bought a home land great.
So that's why I live in Kansas.
I am a Rock Chalk Jayhawk and Ihave spent the last uh, over a
dozen years in the contactcenter space, but more recently,
(02:19):
since 2020, in the contactcenter space, but more recently,
since 2020, in the contactcenter technology space.
Uniquely, I work for twocompanies, one that spun out of
the other.
So I work for Customer Direct,which is a US-based BPO based
(02:39):
out of St Louis Missouri, and wesupport a lot of different
small and medium businesses.
We support luxury hotels allover the world doing central
reservations, we do tech support, we do customer care,
e-commerce, support all kinds offun and interesting things.
That allows me to learn aboutall kinds of fun and interesting
(03:01):
businesses.
And then, since 2020, about allkinds of fun and interesting
businesses.
And then, since 2020, HappiTu,which was at one point just a
technology division of CustomerDirect and is now its own
company.
we are in the conversationanalytics space.
We're transcribing calls andusing AI to show people some
(03:22):
really cool and interestingstuff about what's happening,
interactions between theircontact center and their
customers.
So that's, I don't know.
I think that's what people needto know for right now, and then
maybe we'll find out some otherinteresting things.
Sarah Caminiti (03:38):
They're going to
find out more.
They're going to find out more.
I do have a question about thatspace that you're in, because
you're kind of in a dualsituation having the BPO, but
then you've also got thetechnology that the BPO is using
and for your time before, youwere in this tech space and you
(03:59):
were seeing the possibilitieswith the analytics and AI and
how that can really transformthe customer-focused change
within a company.
How were you keeping track ofwhat was going on in these
conversations?
Rob Dwyer (04:12):
It's a really great
question.
So my purview in the contactcenter for a long time has been
training and quality.
When it came to Customer Direct, that was where I started.
I led the training departmentand eventually the quality
department, and there are anumber of ways that you can
understand certain things aboutcustomers.
(04:35):
Before I was with CustomerDirect, I was with a large
multinational BPO that lots ofpeople would know of if I told
you the name, and we supported acompany that you would also
know if I told you the name.
It's one of the big threetelecom players in the US.
So you can use surveys.
(04:57):
That's one of the things thatwe did in a former life, right?
So after an interaction, youcould push a survey to a
customer.
You can ask some questions, youcan get some feedback.
You can get a lot of goodthings out of surveys.
But there are some Rob withsurveys.
Some of those Rob revolvearound the response rate and who
(05:22):
tends to respond.
I'll tell you who tends torespond.
Not me, I don't respond to.
Those who tends to respond arepeople who are incredibly upset
or are really excited, thosepeople at the tails of the
spectrum on either side, thepeople in the middle who are
like, yeah, things are good.
(05:43):
They don't respond as often,even though they may have some
really valuable feedback toprovide you.
They just don't feel motivated,necessarily, I think, because
we get surveyed so much.
There's so many surveys.
There are also ways that you canidentify agent-driven, ways
(06:05):
that you can identify what'shappening on a call.
So most contact centers have asystem that allows them to
really give a call disposition.
It could be chat, it could beemail, but it is a way for you
to essentially say this is whythis customer contacted us and
(06:30):
this is the resolution that wearrived at.
That can work really well aswell, but there are different
challenges with it.
Number one it's driven byagents, and so there's always a
certain element of human errorthat can be involved in that,
bias for sure.
Sometimes it's just simplemistake I click on a drop down
(06:52):
and I pick the wrong one out ofthe drop down because I'm trying
to move quickly so I can helpthe next customer.
There is also this challengewith that that often there's
really only one option to choose, even though we know
conversations are not alwaysdriven by one particular need.
I may call you, sarah and I'vegot three Rob that I need
(07:15):
resolved.
And then, if you are the agentat the end of that, you have to
choose one option, as this iswhy Rob called and this is what
I did to fix his Rob.
But really I called about threethings and maybe you fix two of
them and the other one had tobe escalated.
I choose, so there's that Right.
(07:40):
And then I think there's thevery traditional call quality
department or quality department.
I say calls a lot because in myworld I see tons of phone calls
, but that's not always the case.
Right, the channel may be verydifferent.
You may be dealing with chatsor emails or social media there
(08:02):
are all different kinds ofchannels where customers can
reach out to us these days,depending on your business.
But the quality departmenttheir job is usually to look at,
listen, analyze interactions,to understand agent performance.
(08:23):
Typically.
That's typically what they'refocused on, and sometimes they
are raising the flag tooperations to say, hey, I've
noticed something, I've noticeda trend, or I've noticed that
we've got customers that areasking about this and it seems
like we've got something that'sbroken.
Those are the traditional waysthat we have understood what's
(08:45):
happening between our frontlineagents in support, sales or
service and our customers.
And you know we're finding thereare incredible new ways to
understand those things at scaleand to not let things fall
(09:06):
through the cracks.
Sarah Caminiti (09:08):
Oh, I think that
that's.
There's so many things that Iwant to ask you about what you
just shared, because it toucheson so many different areas of
things that I've always kind ofstruggled with with, kind of
with how, how companies,especially large companies,
interact with their agents andthe pressure that the agents
have for many different reasonsand, of course, it makes sense.
(09:32):
I mean, their purpose is totake as many phone calls as they
can or answer as many chats asthey can, but to what extent?
What are you losing because ofthe speed and the needing to
select just one thing and havingto?
If you are in a situation whereyou need to speed through
something you know I know frompersonal experience, even when
(09:54):
I'm doing email support, havingto tag and that sort of piece of
it if you are feelingoverwhelmed, if you are over the
conversation, if you aren'tgiving yourself enough time to
actually stop and think aboutwhat you just went through with
the conversation, you're onlygetting a nugget, and sometimes
(10:16):
it's not really even a nugget,it's just a hint and no one
really is able to actually seethe full picture and no one
really is able to actually seethe full picture.
So, as a trainer.
When you're training all ofthese agents for what's to come,
what kind of approach do youeven take with them to make them
(10:40):
feel safe to do their job wellbut also understand that things
are going to be looked at in avery agent-focused way?
Rob Dwyer (10:44):
Well, I think that's
changing and I think it's
changing in what theexpectations are.
The more that we are able toautomate the knowledge, the
insights about conversations,the insights about conversations
(11:11):
, the more we can focus on theagent and the conversation and
less on the documentation andmaking sure that you've tagged
everything correctly and thosetypes of things there has for a
long time been, particularly ifyou're in a BPO, right?
So for those that don't know, aBPO is an outsourcer.
(11:31):
I think that's what most peoplethink of, right Business
process.
Outsourcer is what BPO standsfor.
Some people will think of thatas a contact center, although
outsourcers could do a lot morethan just contact center,
although outsourcers could do alot more than just contact
center work.
But there has long been thisrequirement for agents in not
just BPOs but definitely in BPOs, to label things, to drive
(11:56):
reporting, to be able to providedata back to that partner that
you're working on behalf of, sothat they understand what's
happening with their customers,what's happening with the volume
of customer contacts that arecoming in, and so you put a lot
of focus on that, sometimes atthe detriment of focusing on how
(12:20):
to really provide a greatexperience as an agent with that
customer, because my role istwofold as an agent in a world
that doesn't have technology,highlighting some of these
insights for me.
It is.
Yes, I need to provide greatservice, I need to resolve
issues, I need to make salesright.
Whatever my role is and itmight be all of those, whatever
(12:41):
my role is and it might be allof those and I need to provide
good data back to our partner sothat they understand what's
happening.
People think that contactcenter agents, support agents,
like that job is easy.
Sarah Caminiti (13:00):
It's not.
Rob Dwyer (13:00):
If you've ever worked
in a contact center or a sports
center.
It is such a challenging job.
It can be mentally draining andit is.
It's just it's hard.
You have to understandtechnology, you have to
understand people, you have tothink on your feet, you have to
work with a smile on your faceall the time and sometimes
(13:22):
you're getting beat up left andright.
Oh my gosh, it's such achallenging job, and so the more
that we can leverage technologyand this is my firm belief the
more we can leverage technologyto take some of the the lift off
of the agents about the thingsthat happen after the
(13:46):
conversation, the easier it isfor them to actually show up and
engage with a customer and havea meaningful conversation, so
that we can address whateverthose customer needs are, and
that's what we're trying to do.
There are a lot of companiesout there that are working at
(14:08):
this at different angles a lotof interesting things and then
there are companies out therethat are trying to eliminate the
human agents altogether, andI'm not a fan of that.
It's going to happen in someplaces and it makes sense in
some very specific use cases inmy mind, but as a customer, I
(14:30):
still want to talk to a personin the most cases, and I think
what I want when I talk to thatperson is for them to be engaged
with me and be able to solve myRob.
That's what I want.
Sarah Caminiti (14:47):
Yep, oh my gosh.
I couldn't agree more and that'sa very valuable point of how
companies are looking at AI as aresource and a tool.
And have you noticed that thetype of person that's being
hired for BPOs now thattechnology is in the mix and you
(15:09):
still have to?
That's the interesting thingabout support.
It's like we're always going towear a ton of hats, but those
hats are going to shift and thehats could get bigger in some
areas and smaller in others, butwe're still wearing a lot of
hats.
We still have to think aboutthe analytic aspect of things
while we're on those calls.
We just may not be hitting thebuttons after, but that's how
(15:32):
we're able to answer thequestions appropriately and
empathetically and fully andanticipate what those next
questions are going to be.
And anticipate what those nextquestions are going to be.
But since your agents are ableto now not have all of that
extra stress at the very end, dothe type of folks that are
attracted to BPO's change at all, or are you seeing that it's
(15:57):
the same type of support-focusedperson that's coming into the
fold?
Rob Dwyer (16:03):
Yeah.
So what I would say is I trynot to ever paint in too broad
of brush strokes when it comesto this, because the people that
show up for their daily shiftat a BPO the range is as big of
a range as you can come up with,and part of it is who are you
(16:26):
supporting and in what capacityare you supporting them?
I will never forget like manypeople in a BPO, I started on
the front lines, just likeeverybody else.
2009 is when I got my start,and I will never forget the
first time that I sat on thecall center floor.
(16:46):
I was nesting or hijackingthere are lots of different
terms for this.
This is where you sit withanother agent and plug in so you
can hear their conversation andyou know, in some cases, during
training, you might be runningthe computer what we call
driving so you might benavigating systems, or maybe
(17:10):
you're doing some talking, ormaybe you're just observing.
This was my very first time andI was just observing the guy I
sat down with.
I was, at the time, about 30years old.
The guy I sat down with was inhis early to mid-20s and he had
a tattoo across his foreheadthat said Nothing to prove and I
(17:37):
was like whoa, like whoa.
But I'll tell you what thatillustrates is that when you are
behind the phone, behind thechat, behind the email, there is
room for all kinds of differentpeople.
And he was a super nice guy,did his job really well.
(17:57):
I learned a lot from him justin that one day.
My impression of him had I seenhim in a different context,
maybe just walking across thestreet would be wildly different
than the impression I gotsitting with him, observing how
he interacted with customers.
And I would tell you that yousee that in any support center,
(18:19):
any contact center you go into,there are just a huge variety of
different people.
Now, if I am working in support, there is a good chance that I
am going to lean in as someonewho's really good at support
certain things.
Right, I might be a little moretechnologically savvy.
(18:41):
I may be a little moretechnologically savvy.
I may be a little bit morenerdy.
I might have, uh, some star warsfandom, uh, in my home office,
if I'm working from home right,um, versus if I am in sales, I
might be a little bit different,personality wise, but
personality-wise.
But I don't know that we're yetseeing a different type of
(19:06):
person being attracted to BPOs,because I think the people that
we attract have a lot to do withthe actual work that's being
done and the opportunity that isput in front of them.
In my contact center, we wentwork from home 2018, give or
take.
We weren't 100% work from home,but we started that growth to a
(19:33):
work from home model.
then, by the time 2020 camearound, we really didn't have
that many agents who were stillin the office, luckily for us.
But there are still plenty ofcontact centers where agents who
were still in the office,luckily for us.
But there are still plenty ofcontact centers where you need
to be in an office.
There are some where you canwork from home, but you can only
(19:56):
work from home in certainstates where they employ or
certain countries.
And so I think, right for me asa person who is considering a
job at a BPO, I'm going to havecertain opportunities that I can
take advantage of, and some ofthose may fit my skill set
really well.
Some may not, and there may besome that I can't take advantage
of because I need to work fromhome or because I live in a
(20:19):
particular place and don't haveaccess to go to certain centers
where certain programs aresupported.
So there's just a lot out thereand I don't know that we're
seeing a ton of change in thepeople yet Now.
Will that change in the future?
Sarah Caminiti (20:56):
Absolutely,
that's possible.
Have no idea who was on thatphone with you and it doesn't
matter.
It doesn't matter and you canhave so many different things
that you think that you're goingto end up being attracted to
within those spaces.
But you will end up Rob beingsurprised at your areas where
(21:16):
you shine and I think, lookingback throughout my career, I
really learned so much aboutwhat I'm really good at by
working in a call center, like Iwas sent to the VIP desk like
super, super like two weeks in,because they saw I will stay on
(21:37):
the phone with you for a verylong time and we will get to
know each other very well by theend of it.
I was invited to people's homesif I started to, if I showed up
in their towns and we'd talk forfive minutes.
But it sounds a little bitcreepy now that I say it out
loud, though, but I never wouldhave thought that that was
(21:59):
something that you could dowithin that call center space
and it was such a great time forme to to kind of hone into that
skillset and build thoserelationships and get a lot of
value out of it.
And, uh, I would love to knowin your career, especially since
you were a trainer like you gotto see everybody, you got to
influence everybody and helpthem figure out how they were
(22:25):
going to be successful in thisspace.
And so having that experiencewith that gentleman that if you
saw him on the street you neverwould have realized that he was
such a lovely, kind personbecause we all make those fast
assumptions how has that changedin how you lead and train and
interact with folks?
Rob Dwyer (22:45):
That is a great
question.
Ultimately, as a leader, Ithink you need to approach
everyone with a certain level ofrespect for them as a person
and a humility, knowing that youdon't know about their life,
you don't know where they'recoming from.
You don't know about their life, you don't know where they're
(23:05):
coming from, you don't knowtheir background.
And just try to find a way toconnect with them, to build a
foundation of trust and go fromthere, because what I've found
People will surprise you.
They really will, and I haveseen People be successful that,
(23:32):
on the face of it, when theyfirst got started, I was like I
don't know.
I don't know if you're going tomake it.
I had one gentleman in atraining class early in my
career.
So I did, you know, after I wason the phones for not quite a
year, I moved into training andI trained new hires for a number
(23:52):
of years and I had this one guyI mentioned.
It was supporting one of thebig three telecoms, right, cell
phones, and this was, you know,the era of the smartphone had
been around for a little bit,right?
So you're talking about thetime when iPhone 4 was coming
(24:15):
out.
That period, if you think backto then, this guy was still
rocking a flip phone.
He was a little bit older and Ireally had concerns about
whether or not he was going tobe able to learn what he needed
to learn fast enough to be ableto do the job and do it well.
(24:36):
But I spent extra time with him.
He was super eager and so Ijust did everything I could to
help him, despite my concernsthat you know.
I just I didn't know if he wascut out for it and he struggled
early on.
He absolutely struggled.
(24:57):
But you know what, before theyear was out, he was one of the
top 10 agents on the floor andthat, while it took him longer
to get there, his focus and hisdetermination and his
willingness to learn and to movethrough adversity, his grit to
(25:18):
move through adversity.
He just kept getting better andbetter and better and, before
you knew it, he was a rock star.
And one of the things that Itook away from that a lesson
that I took away from that wasnot to be too quick to judge how
people will perform.
(25:39):
It is incredibly important forany business to manage
performance and there are goingto be times where you have to
say you know what.
You're not living up toexpectations and at some point
it may not be a good fit.
At the same time, you have tobe careful in making sure that
(26:01):
you give people enough time toreally show you what they can do
, and that just taught me not tobe too quick to judge how
people would perform.
I think that is one of thebiggest lessons that I learned
from a leadership standpoint,from a training standpoint.
(26:22):
That I learned from aleadership standpoint, from a
training standpoint, and it's aconstant reminder that we can
all surprise ourselves andsurprise the people around us.
Sarah Caminiti (26:32):
Yeah, yes, and
having the BPO space or the call
center space be such a meltingpot it affords you the
opportunity to if you allowyourself the opportunity, to
really understand how peoplelearn differently, people
respond to things differently,and sometimes you're going to
(26:57):
have folks that you notice.
Okay, when I said great job tothem, their whole demeanor
changed, everything changed.
It was like you flip the switchand suddenly they felt proud
enough to get out of their headand do their job well.
And then you've got the otherfolks that you know.
They just come in and they justcrush it.
(27:19):
And I compare this to the hiringprocess too, and I think the
BPO space is special in thatregard too, because they do hire
people that a lot of otherplaces may not hire on paper
because of many different things, and they're a little bit more
(27:39):
open.
There may be higher turnoverbecause they're taking chances
on a lot of folks, but thepeople that do thrive, like you
said, could surprise you.
And if only hiring would,hiring processes would take that
kind of similar approach.
Sometimes, if it's possible andof course in smaller companies
(28:01):
that's not going to be apossibility but because you
really don't know and a resumedoesn't tell you anything.
Sometimes that first interviewdoesn't tell you anything
because the person's so nervous.
And with all the people thatyou've been helping, because,
Rob, you are such a helpfulperson within this community and
you've opened up your Rob, youare such a helpful person within
(28:23):
this community and you'veopened up your arms to so many
folks and I know many people whoconsider you a mentor.
And what you have provided topeople that are down on
themselves and feel like theycan't get in that door or they
fail every time that they getinto those first interviews is
so special.
And do you find that because ofthis community you're building
(28:47):
around you and showing peoplewhat's possible with kindness,
that that sort of BPO anybodycould surprise me mentality is
starting to spread in thecommunities that you're in.
Rob Dwyer (29:02):
Well, first of all,
thank you for such kind words.
I do think everyone hassomething to offer.
I hope that that spreads.
But when I talked about thatlesson, I think that lesson
extends into business of allkinds and into life.
(29:27):
There is something that we canlearn from anyone.
We may not know what it is thatwe can learn from them.
We may not even really likethat person or see eye to eye
with that person.
That doesn't mean that thereisn't something that we can
learn from them.
(29:47):
It doesn't mean that they don'thave expertise or wisdom that
could be useful for us to learn.
And I think all too often andlook, I've been guilty of this
Like I don't want anyone tothink that I am up on a high
horse because I'm not.
I've made the mistakes, I'vediscounted people when I
(30:10):
shouldn't have, I've made snapjudgments and I'm sure I will
continue to.
But I try to remind myself thateven people that I don't
necessarily think I like orthere are things about them that
kind of turn me off thatdoesn't mean that they don't
have value, whether that's ingeneral, because I think all
(30:34):
people have value, or to me inthis moment or in some moment in
the future, and so I really tryto avoid again that that quick
judgment and we all, we're gonnajudge like we just.
This is our, our nature, it'spart of the human condition.
(30:57):
We make decisions very quicklybecause it's a survival
mechanism.
This is how we had to survivefor thousands of years is to
make quick judgments, quickdecisions, and today we don't
necessarily need to make thosedecisions about other people for
survival's sake, but our brainstill does that for us and I
(31:22):
think it's just important torecognize that we don't live in
a world where we're out huntingand gathering and I'd like to
say not warring with people, butwe do still war with people,
unfortunately.
But I don't know about you, butI don't have to go out into the
(31:42):
backyard to get food every day.
No, I'm thankful for that, andso because of that, because I
have a home and a roof over myhead, the way that I can
approach the world is differentthan the way that my ancestors
(32:02):
had to approach the worldthousands of years ago, even
though our brain doesn'tnecessarily work terribly
differently than it didthousands of years ago.
Long journey to try and keepthat on the forefront and to try
to learn from everyone aroundyou and understand what it is
(32:24):
that you can take away, but it'simportant.
Sarah Caminiti (32:27):
It is important.
No, it really is, and I thinkthat in our industry, in the
support industry, where for solong we really haven't had much
of a voice and a space for thosebigger conversations, and I
think it's such an easy thing toforget that all of those things
(32:52):
that happened that may not havebeen awesome, or all those
people that may have discountedyou or made you feel less than,
or folks that you did trust andand then they ended up changing
down the road, or people thatproved you wrong, all of those
things, even if it doesn't likescream in your face, this is a
lesson that I'm going to learnand take away.
(33:14):
They all have an impact and,honestly, I know myself and I am
a slowly becoming a convert tonot being the most naive human
on the face of the earth andbelieving that everyone all the
time has the same intentions asI do to life.
But it's been such a positivething to be able to reflect on
(33:41):
those things that aren't superawesome and and then you
approach conversationsdifferently and not in a
negative way, but just you'reable to Rob and making that such
a point of focus in your lifeis such a great thing.
(34:04):
That kind of bleeds out of youto the people that you're
talking to, because they're ableto see, oh, wait a second, wait
a second.
He's actually like approachingthis thoughtfully, and he's
speaking to me thoughtfully,this thoughtfully, and and he's
(34:24):
speaking to me thoughtfully, andwe're a very fast group, this
human species, like you said, wemake those fast decisions and
it's very important to slow downand and actually think about
what the other person's saying.
So I think that that is a greatapproach to life.
Rob Dwyer (34:38):
It's always a work in
progress, I will tell you that.
But I, you know, work yeah.
Sarah Caminiti (34:45):
Yeah, and you've
got this podcast and you're
getting to talk to so manydifferent people and so you have
to ask questions thoughtfullyand you have to pause and think
about what they're saying andtake it in.
And have you noticed in youroutside of podcast world that
because you have to be so laserfocused in these conversations
and really appreciate the wordsthat these guests are sharing
(35:08):
with you, that you allowyourself to pause a little bit
more when you're talking tocolleagues and friends and
family?
Rob Dwyer (35:17):
You know, I wish I
could say yes, 100%.
It has changed my whole way Iinteract with people in everyday
life.
It has sometimes, but I willalso say that it's work and,
like anyone else, when you'recreating new habits, it can be
(35:40):
difficult to sustain that habitwhen you're not focused on it,
and so when you're in a podcast,you're having this one-on-one
conversation and there's aparticular purpose for it.
You know, before we started,right, I'm switching off
notifications.
You know, before we started,right, I'm switching off
(36:13):
notifications.
I'm trying to eliminate thedistractions that exist for all
of us.
Right, an email coming in, atext coming in, a notification?
Right, I'm turning off all ofthose things.
I'm making a very consciousdecision to eliminate those
distractions, but then, when youstep back out into the real
world, all of those distractions, potentially, are popping right
back up, and so it is still awork in progress, an effort that
(36:38):
I think all of us have to make,when we are with the people
that we love, with the peoplethat are closest to us in our
lives outside of work, toeliminate the distractions, to
be present and to focus on thatperson and the conversations
(36:58):
that we may be having with thosepeople, and I'm as guilty as
anyone else at allowingdistractions to take me away
from being present in thatmoment and at the same time, I
try to be there.
Same time I try to be there,but I think in our world it's
(37:25):
it's harder and harder to dothat because there are so many
distractions.
This, this whole ability to bedigitally connected and on at
any time, has all kinds ofadvantages, and it's also like
it's incredibly, it's eatingaway at the foundations that we
as humans have had when it comesto interpersonal communication
(37:46):
for centuries, for as long as wehave existed right, either in
person or maybe a letter.
And then we got telephones andthat was amazing, but we haven't
even had telephones that long.
And now we've got all of thesedifferent ways to communicate in
(38:08):
the moment, all these differentchannels, and it's changed the
way that we expect tocommunicate and it's changed our
level of focus when we arecommunicating, and that impacts
me just as much as it impactsother people.
(38:28):
I think it's a big challenge forus as a society to deal with
and we'll see how things go, butI would encourage everyone to
just try to be more present,whether that's just putting your
phone away for a while whenyou're with people or turning it
off, if you can afford to turnit off, and you can afford it.
But there are some people whocan't afford it.
(38:51):
I get it.
If you're a doctor and you canbe paged at any time, maybe you
can't completely turn off, butfor most of us, despite what we
think or what we rationalize, wecan afford to just turn off for
a while and be present, and Ithink we all should do that,
(39:14):
more than we do, myself includedmore than we do, myself
included.
Sarah Caminiti (39:23):
Oh my gosh, that
resonates with me so much.
I didn't wear my watch.
Today I've got an Apple watchand at first, when I got the
Apple watch, I was like, oh mygosh, how could I survive
without this?
Oh my word, this is the bestthing.
But, holy moly, does thatintensify the sense of urgency
for every single thing?
And I wonder, as you weretalking, I was thinking about,
(39:44):
like the reality of, yeah, thetelephone hasn't been around for
very long, but the telephonewas an immediate connection with
someone.
And do you think that thaturgency that we put on every
(40:23):
ping and buzz that we get fromall the millions of channels?
Rob Dwyer (40:25):
that we're connected
to out the outside world.
Uh, having that connection, Idon't know.
I'm gonna be very forthrightwith this answer I don't know, I
think there are a lot ofdifferent things that go into it
.
I think what humans want isconnection.
That's part of the humancondition, right?
We evolved in these clans, ifyou will, small groups, our
(40:50):
tribe, and we were veryconnected with a number of
people, right, a few dozenpeople.
And today, for some of us atleast, right, we live in a big
city where there are hundreds ofthousands of people that we
don't know.
We just don't know we'reinteracting with them.
(41:12):
We're not interacting with themand just walking by, but I
think we, deep down, still wantto connect with people.
Technology has enabled us toconnect with those people in our
tribe or to find those peoplein specific tribes, right.
So it's really great.
If I have a passion aboutsomething that is kind of
(41:34):
niche-y, I can still find otherpeople who are into that and we
can share and we can collaborateand we can celebrate each other
and I can have this communityright, just like a CX
Accelerator Slack community,right, I can find people who are
excited about CX and we canshare and we can collaborate,
(41:54):
but I might find a subredditthat has Lego Star Wars in it
and I can share and celebrate inthat, or I can find anything
that is interesting to me as aperson, that I have a passion
for, and find other people thathave a passion for that and
develop a connection, and Ithink that's amazing.
(42:16):
It's wonderful and it allowspeople who literally 30 years
ago may not have been able tofind that tribe, or certainly
would have been a lot moredifficult.
At the same time, it createsseparate challenges, like all of
(42:37):
a sudden I may have, I may nowbelong to a whole bunch of
different tribes.
Right, I've got my work tribeand I've got my my hobby tribe
and I've got my work passiontribe and I've got my my actual
town tribe and my family tribeand like all these different
(42:59):
things, and they're all sendingmessages at the same time and I
don't think we really havefigured out how to deal with
that effectively as a society.
There are some individuals whohave figured out how to deal
with it and Rob do really wellwith it, but I think as a
(43:20):
society we're still grapplingwith how do we manage our
communications with all of thepeople that we interact with, to
do it effectively, to maintainthe relationship that we have
with them and, at the same time,to be present in our
(43:40):
communications with them withoutletting other things kind of
fall through the cracks that arealso important, and I don't
have the answer to that.
I don't know that anyone does,but it is a challenge that I
think we're still grappling with.
Sarah Caminiti (43:53):
Oh, completely,
because it's all changed so fast
and all of those tribes justkind of came out of nowhere.
And what you were saying abouthow we all want that connection,
I think there's also a littlebit of that panic of am I going
to lose it if I don't get to itright now?
And so there's no boundaries wedon't have any boundaries with
(44:15):
any sort of connection andcommunication and that bleeds
into work and having to separatethat work time and space and
how that connects to home,because, like in these Slack
communities where we foundtribes of folks that are our CX
people, I'm talking to peoplefrom all of these different
(44:38):
spaces all day, all night,because that's a social thing.
Even though it's work related,it still kind of feels socially.
And so when do you, when youdraw the line and and why do I
feel like replying to someone'scomment about this loom that
they're wanting to get to havein their living room?
(44:59):
Right now the loom is notcoming.
They're not like dying from theloom, but I feel like I have to
like drop what I'm doing andanswer them.
And that's such a valid pointthat you made, Rob, because we
don't know, we totally have noidea how to do it.
Rob Dwyer (45:15):
Yeah, I think the
concentration that the
smartphone has created, with allof these different
communication channels and orour computers or tablets or
whatever, but the smartphone isis the one that I think is with
us all the time.
We we take it everywhere and itallows all of those channels to
(45:38):
kind of come into the sameplace and right.
It's created this and I do itright, it's created the the
phone check.
Right, I gotta look like well,we've got some notifications
here.
I need to see what's there thatneeds my attention.
The reality is, 95% of it Robdoesn't need your attention
(46:01):
right away, and we're veryquickly becoming that addicted
to that and it's really hard toget away from, because there are
other things on there that maybe critical.
Right, it may be communicationwith your kids or other members
of your family.
(46:22):
It could be very urgent andthat's how you get in touch with
someone, but it's all a verynew phenomenon.
That's not how things used tobe right.
When I was in school.
You'd you'd ride bikes and youjust disappear and nobody knew
(46:42):
how to get in touch with youuntil you came back around.
That was how it worked andthere were dangers associated
with that as well.
But today we're just.
We're just always oncommunicating with all of these
different channels and it itdefinitely keeps us from being
(47:05):
present at times.
Sarah Caminiti (47:07):
Yeah, I mean,
even just having a camera on
your phone forces you to tothink about how you can have
that on you at all times,because you don't want to miss a
chance to take a picture ofyour kid and you don't want to
miss a chance to what if theystart doing a dance routine and
you need to get your video outand and start recording them
because you're going to miss it.
(47:28):
And just think about when wewere growing up, like you, had
this huge, clunky camera thatwas in a drawer somewhere and it
would come out occasionally andthen you would go to the one
hour photo thing and forgetabout it Rob, and or it would be
super exciting highlight ofyour day.
Who knows what kind of photoswere going to come out of there,
but it was like an event, itwas a special thing and now it's
(47:52):
just we always have our phonesbecause we always can take
pictures.
Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (47:58):
It's all a balancing
act.
Sarah Caminiti (48:00):
We'll figure it
out eventually.
Maybe I hope Maybe there's anapp for it.
There Rob is.
An app with notifications Yep,yep, to tell us to ignore.
Rob Dwyer (48:12):
Ignore your
notifications.
This is your notification.
To ignore your notifications.
Sarah Caminiti (48:24):
You might have
one that's urgent.
So you need to go through all47 of the notifications and let
us know if it's actually urgentand you need to answer it.
But, Rob, this has obviouslybeen such a lovely conversation
because every conversation withyou is lovely, and I like to end
my conversations by asking myguests what's your era?
Well, my era is hard for me todefine.
Rob Dwyer (48:52):
I think that this is
the era that I'm in.
I'm in an era where I am tryingto develop myself personally
and take some focus on realrelationships personally and
take some focus on realrelationships, and that is
(49:12):
different for me a little bitfrom my younger self, and I am
also very much from a work orprofessional standpoint, like a
lot of us, very much grapplingwith how AI is going to impact.
So I would say I'm in atransitional era and it's
(49:35):
transitional for me as a personand understanding myself and the
people around me.
But I think we're all in atransitional moment potentially
in how AI will impact things.
I don't think AI is the next NFT.
(49:55):
I was a naysayer of NFTs whenthey came out and I feel
relatively vindicated that thatwas a ridiculous hype.
Ai, I think, is fundamentallydifferent in its current
iteration and in what it will beable to do, both from a
(50:17):
productivity and almost likesuperpower kind of way, but also
from a holy moly.
This is really scary and thereare some things that we really
have to think about andunderstand how we put up some
guardrails, and working with AIis part of the reason that I'm
(50:42):
thinking about that, but also Ithink we all should be thinking
about that and understanding thepotential implications and how
we can harness the things thatare good about AI to make our
lives better, easier and moreproductive potential.
Sarah Caminiti (51:07):
I think that's a
good era.
I mean the fact that you'rejust acknowledging it and you're
cognizant of the transitionalaspect of this entire space
right now, like any industry isimpacted by AI, and in varying
degrees.
And yeah, you're right, Like Imean, there's a reason why
(51:27):
movies for years have had likethe doomsday situation of really
AI at its core.
I mean, usually there's somesort of Rob involved, but it's
for a reason because we don'tknow.
And if anything has told usanything, it's that this stuff
moves fast and it changes fastand that in and of itself is a
(51:54):
scary unknown.
So find the nuggets andtreasure those, but don't take
in the whole package.
Rob Dwyer (52:03):
Just kind of wait and
see take in the whole package,
just kind of wait and see.
Yeah, I would encourage all thepeople that are actively
developing AI to remember all ofthose cool movies that you're
talking about, like theTerminator.
Those were not instructionmanuals, they were warnings.
Understand that distinction,please, for all of our sakes.
Sarah Caminiti (52:28):
Please, you
don't want to go down in history
as the person that was able tomake the minority report a
reality.
Like that is not.
That's not something on aChristmas card you want to put
in there, but I love that, Rob.
Thank you so so much for yourtime, and I'm just so excited to
(52:49):
be able to talk to you again,so enjoy your day.
Rob Dwyer (52:52):
Thank you, Sarah.
I really appreciate the time.
Sarah Caminiti (52:56):
I hope this
conversation with Rob Dwyer has
sparked some thoughts on wherewe're headed with AI and what it
means for our connections.
If you found value in today'sepisode, don't forget to like,
subscribe and share this withothers that are navigating this
ever-evolving landscape.
Remember listeners.
When you feel it in yourselfthat a better way exists, you
(53:17):
owe it to yourself and thosearound you to try, because great
things happen when you do.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me and thank you, Rob,
for gifting me with your time.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
Have a great day.