November 12, 2024 • 60 mins
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The best story you ever told wasn't memorized, it was just known and felt very deeply...
Discover the transformative journey of personal growth and purpose as we welcome Suneet Bhatt, the founder of My Authentic Journey, to the final episode of the podcast. Unearth the four significant eras of life, as inspired by geologic eras themselves, and learn how to embrace each phase—from the carefree days of childhood to the legacy-focused years. Suneet shares how vulnerability and presence can guide us through these stages, encouraging us to be intentional in our growth, allowing past experiences to mold but not define us. Expect actionable insights that will empower you to navigate life's transitions with clarity and purpose.
In an unexpected twist, find out how a job at Victoria's Secret and a quirky, poorly-drawn alpaca became pivotal in recognizing inherent leadership qualities and the significance of community. Suneet unfolds his creative journey, offering a fresh perspective on nurturing innate abilities and their impact on personal education and growth. This episode delves into the organic unfolding of purpose and the importance of patience in teaching methodologies, all while planting seeds of knowledge that flourish over time.
As we explore the evolving landscape of education, we acknowledge how career paths have evolved how that impacts the college experience. We also look into the power of EOS, transformative power of digital tools in enhancing productivity and the importance of decoupling personal identity from professional alignment.
Wrap up the first season of Epochal Growth with us, and get ready for more transformative narratives in the upcoming season in 2025. Stay connected through LinkedIn and the ElevateCX Slack community, and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter for all the latest updates.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:07):
Welcome to the final episode of season one of
Epochal Growth.
I'm Sarah C and I'm so happythat you're here.
I couldn't think of a betterway to close out this incredible
journey than with today's guest.
Suneet Bhatt is atransformational leader.
He's a coach and he's a mentor,and he led a workshop in Denver
at the ElevateCX conferencethat was called Happy Proud, not
(00:31):
Yet Satisfied, and he forcedeverybody that was in the room
to reflect and to givethemselves permission to answer
hard questions that we usuallyavoid and then to spend time
with those questions.
I was really excited to meethim and introduce myself to him,
and I was beyond excited whenhe agreed to be a guest on this
(00:54):
podcast.
Once he did agree, I knew hehad to be the closer for the
season.
In this episode, we reflect onthe importance of vulnerability
and personal growth, and we talkabout stepping into new eras
with intention, because when youdo that, you are taking
ownership of what's to come andyou are allowing yourself the
time and the space to reflect onwhere you've been and how
(01:15):
that's gotten you to where youare.
If you're ready to finish thisseason with actionable insights
and fresh inspiration, thisepisode is for you.
Enough of my rambling.
I can't believe this is thelast episode.
Let's dive in.
Suneet Bhatt (01:30):
Hi everybody.
It's nice to meet you and,sarah, just from your smile,
that's exactly how I picture youall the time with your energy.
Thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to have thisconversation and see where we
take it In terms of you know, bythe ways of introduction, I
think the way I'm someone whobeen through, as you talk about
(01:51):
sort of epochs and eras right, Ithink you're catching me as I
just emerged into what I thinkis, you know, finding purpose in
the third era of, I think, whatwill be the four eras of my
life, and the way I talk aboutmyself, which I'm just sort of
arriving at and so excited toshare and just hear what you
think and what the audiencethinks, whether it makes sense.
(02:13):
Even so, I started talking aboutmyself professionally is I help
people in organizations getunstuck, find their purpose and
reach their potential.
And for people, I focus on aframework I built that I teach
at Rutgers, that I brought toprofessionals, which is a find
and evolve your purposeframework.
(02:33):
And then, in terms oforganizations, I work through a
framework at an organizationcalled EOS, where we help
organizations again get unstuck,get in alignment and operate
with discipline andaccountability and really get
everything they want from theircompany.
So, professionally, that's kindof how I talk about myself.
(02:54):
The reason I think of it as mythird sort of era you've got me
thinking in this mindset isbecause right now, my top
priority and the most impactfulthing I will do, regardless of
what I do professionally, is setour kids up for success.
And so you know, on the frontend and on the back end of this
(03:18):
era it is the definition ofsuccess is are my kids just
happy?
Do they just feelextraordinarily loved and do
they feel like they're going tobe okay, like no matter what
happens?
And so that's all the context.
But I think, end point to endpoint, that's the most important
thing I'll do right now.
(03:38):
Is that helpful?
Sarah Caminiti (03:40):
Is that helpful?
My gosh, that was the mostbeautiful introduction I think
I've ever seen Like I, havingsomeone anticipate there to be
four seasons that existthroughout your journey and kind
(04:13):
of enter into this space, thislife, knowing that these four
things are going to happen.
And I would love to know whereyou came up with this kind of
this mindset.
Suneet Bhatt (04:30):
Yeah, look, I think I kind of cheated, right.
So I think what I thought ofera is, I think, almost like
geologically right.
And so I think you operate insort of you think, in terms of
the four geologic eras, and Ithink that's where my anchor was
.
I usually tend to break thingsdown into threes.
This is the one time I went forfour.
I'm a big rule of threeoperator in general, but this
(04:54):
time four felt right.
And then, as I looked at thatand I was like you know what,
actually, I think for me fourmakes a ton of sense, because I
think the first is when we arekids like ourselves, and we are
truly carefree, right.
I think the second, we're beingcared for, right.
I think the second is when weare independent and sort of on
(05:17):
our own right, so we're adultswithout responsibility, and that
is really about sort ofexperiments and geologically
they actually talk about it as,like you know, oceans in space,
like arriving and retreating,like they talk about it as this,
like earthen experimentation,right.
I think the third is where I'mat now, where I'm responsible
(05:40):
for, right.
And then I think the fourth isyet to be defined, but at the
end of this journey, the fourthis where I'm really thinking
about, probably legacy right,like what is, what is what is
left of me?
The thing you are the most isthe thing you are after.
(06:01):
It's what you are.
The thing you are for longestis your memory and your legacy
right, and so I think it's niceto be able to have that space,
and I still got some time beforeI get there, but I that's kind
of how it started, so it wasgeologic and then it just kind
of made sense.
Sarah Caminiti (06:17):
So I love that, I really do love that, and I
think that also allows you thespace in, just like mentally, to
automatically acknowledge thatthis is now, this isn't before,
this isn't later, this is, andnot dwell on past mistakes, past
(06:42):
choices.
They have brought you to thisnew era and what you take with
it is up to you, um, but theydon't define you and, and that's
very important, yeah, I, I lovethat, um, I think, uh, I love
that you shared um sort of that.
Suneet Bhatt (07:03):
Uh, the way you talked about it makes a ton of
sense, which is this journey,and there is before and there's
after.
There's no end, it's continuous, and we are a result, for
better or for worse.
We are a result, we're aproduct, right of what sort of
got us here and we should honorthat.
And I think that's the mostimportant thing is when you try
and hide from it.
It's funny.
(07:23):
Yesterday, the class that Itaught in my framework at
Rutgers is this concept oftruths, which is I don't want
you to talk to students about,for the whole classes.
I don't want them to change whothey are, I just want them to
own it, I want them toacknowledge it and I want them
to decide what they're going toacknowledge and accept, what
they're going to adapt to, whatthey are going to let go.
(07:46):
I just want them to spend sometime in the truth.
It's not limits, it's notlimitations, it's not
restrictions, it's not mistakes,it's just the truth.
What's the truth and how areyou going to accept it before
you move forward?
So I think that the way youjust framed it kind of dovetails
nicely with that.
Sarah Caminiti (08:06):
What was the response when you were talking
about the truths with your class?
Suneet Bhatt (08:10):
Look they're.
You know they're 17 to 21, 22.
So I think some of this stuffgoes over their heads and it's
funny, two, three years afterI'll have students come back to
me and say, okay, I now get thatthing that you're talking about
.
But that's important, I think Iactually I actually struggled.
I think when I first startedteaching the class um, I
(08:32):
struggled with um.
Is it landing?
Are they getting it today?
And I actually now look at it,as I'm going to plant a bunch of
seeds and they're going to growat different rates and I feel
no urgency or pressure for themto internalize it.
What I want them to do is getit, hear it and if they come
(08:53):
back to it down the line, theycome back to it.
So I just want them to have thesource material.
So some students got it.
Some students' eyes glazed over.
They enjoyed parts of it.
Some of it was maybe too heavy,but I think it's important for
me to present the informationand then they have it as a
takeaway.
Sarah Caminiti (09:18):
But I think that was the way it landed yesterday
with to plant seeds in peoplethat are so like they are at a
stage of life where they don'tknow what's going to happen and
you're telling them that a lotof the things that we don't talk
(09:42):
about are actually things thatare going to guide you and and
that is a rare, a rareoccurrence for that stage of
life to have someone give areality check in a way that is
advantageous to the listenerwhen they are ready to listen.
(10:03):
Yeah, Because it's hard.
I think that anything aboutpurpose is overwhelming.
Suneet Bhatt (10:13):
It shouldn't be.
I think I'm part of the chat.
Yeah, I think you've hit itRight.
It is, and part of that is wehave made it this mythical, like
heavy aspirational.
It's on a pedestal, it ispotentially unattainable, but
you feel the pressure of it allthe time.
(10:33):
I think we have just gottenpurpose wrong and, as a result
of that, we have made it muchharder for people to even
attempt it, let alone, you know,understand their, let alone
understand their journey towardsit.
So I love that.
And something you just saidwhich blew my head, which my
(10:54):
head exploded with, is look, Ispent some time in communication
theory, right, so we have donedifferent areas of customer
engagement.
We always talk about differenttypes of communication theory.
The one communication modelI've never heard before which I
think we just scratched thesurface on here you always talk
(11:14):
about, like Berlow, sender,message channel, receiver, right
, we assume that those aredominoes and continuous, those
are dominoes and continuous.
What's interesting is there isa communication model where you
do your job to create, presentand make the information
available and then, at somepoint, when the time is right,
(11:35):
the person receives it, they optin, they find it, they receive
it, and nobody ever dude.
I got to look this up.
Nobody ever talks about thatwhat happens between channel and
receiver as being a time lapseand a discovery exercise, which
I think our current state ofknowledge, dissemination and
(11:58):
availability makes possible,which wasn't possible 40 years
ago, 50 years ago whencommunication theory was being
developed.
So that is really interesting.
I got to process that.
So that was neat.
That was a neat share, it was agood moment.
Sarah Caminiti (12:14):
Cool.
Well, I'm glad because I thinkthat that is something that I'm
learning through this incrediblejourney that I've been on these
past handful of months of whenI have given myself space to
reflect or celebrate oracknowledge things that are
(12:34):
powerful about myself, allows meto acknowledge things that
happened before that I wasn'table to fully understand or see
or anticipate the impact for,and now I can appreciate it.
(12:56):
And I think the easiest exampleis I've forever the alpaca has
been like my spirit animal andit's.
It all started when I was like19 or 20 years old.
I was working at Victoria'sSecret and we were trying to get
everybody to sign up for thesecredit cards.
(13:17):
Like that was like your mainpurpose in life was to get
people to sign up for theVictoria's Secret credit card.
I was always very good at itbecause I could connect with
people very quickly and throughthat I noticed that everybody
around me started to get kind oflike discouraged or the
(13:39):
momentum dropped or just likethey totally forgot about it.
They were overwhelmed.
So I created this whole likelike reward system of we get to
make a post-it and we add it toa post-it.
And I realized I cannot draw atall and I tried to draw
something and it ended up justlooking like a sad derpy alpaca.
Suneet Bhatt (14:03):
And I don't even know what it was.
Sarah Caminiti (14:06):
It was supposed to be.
I think it may have been ahorse, but it just went downhill
fast.
But that started this wholething with alpacas just kind of
being what people would gift mewith and everything like that.
Suneet Bhatt (14:16):
And.
Sarah Caminiti (14:17):
I only recently I realized the reason why I have
attached myself so much to thisalpaca and didn't know it was.
It was the first time that Ireally trusted myself and tried
something as a leader to buildsomething that drawing and that
post-it board Building thiswhole post-it board.
Suneet Bhatt (14:37):
Our numbers blew up.
Sarah Caminiti (14:38):
That's awesome.
We were the top credit cardpeople in the New England area.
After this strange credit cardpost-it, we would have themes.
Every week we would changethemes.
It would be circus themes, andthen you draw the post-it to go
with the circus and whatever,Like I owned, being inventive
(15:04):
and and and empowering people tocelebrate in dorky little ways.
And I was 19 years old and uh,and now the alpaca is truly like
my little, my little trophy ofit, that now I did that and I
never.
I never made that correlationbefore and and I think that it
(15:26):
just took time to be able toacknowledge that I was doing
great things before I even knewI was doing great things.
Suneet Bhatt (15:33):
Before you knew it and acknowledge it.
Ah, I love that.
Uh, so what tell what?
Is there any identity?
Have you looked up the alpacato understand more about the
creature, the habits?
Is there anything else aboutthe alpaca?
Sarah Caminiti (15:51):
So I did go through a deep exploration of
alpaca many years ago.
I'd imagine I'm a researcher,if you haven't realized that yet
.
Suneet Bhatt (15:58):
Yeah, fact finder.
Sarah Caminiti (16:00):
They greet you with Eskimo kisses, and that's
how they greet all of theirfriends.
And they even greet people withEskimo kisses, and that's how
they greet all of their friends.
Suneet Bhatt (16:06):
Uh, and like they even greet people with Eskimo
kisses.
Sarah Caminiti (16:10):
Um, and like, if you go to an alpaca farm and
they don't spit, like a llamaspits?
Um, they're.
They are very mild mannered butthey're very playful and
inclusive.
And um, they're just theselovely, like happy creatures and
(16:31):
I know, I know I would, that'sso wild.
An eskimo kiss, and who knew mysad horse would actually bring
me to the truth that is theultimate reframe.
Suneet Bhatt (16:42):
Like I love that refrframe a sad horse to a
blissfully happy alpaca.
That's great, that's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti (16:50):
I love it with it and appreciate it.
It will show itself and uh, andmake you realize that this
isn't new, that you, it's justyou and own it and celebrate it
(17:11):
and build on it.
But what you're doing withthese kids is that you're
showing them what's possible.
Suneet Bhatt (17:16):
Yeah, I love that.
I have not thought too hardabout it.
Yesterday was yesterday, was agreat class and it was fun to
like.
It's one of the harder.
It's one of the harder classesbecause, as a concept, it's just
hard to think about truth andthe things that we face and how
do we overcome these obstacles?
Sometimes the only way toovercome it is to just accept it
and then say this is now acondition I deal with, but I
(17:42):
haven't thought about this.
Plant the seed, when will it?
When will it actually germinateand when will it be impactful?
And what's interesting is like,as parents, that's kind of what
we do, right, we are plantingseeds all the time and you hope
it shows up when your childneeds it most, right?
Um, I didn't.
I never thought about it as alike a model and I never thought
(18:03):
about it.
Also as it applies to students.
I think sometimes when we'reteaching, we are so urgent in
wanting the feedback of theclick that sometimes we may put
too much pressure on the studentto learn.
And there's something there, asopposed to just deliver and you
(18:24):
know, let it.
Let it take hold when it can.
I love that.
That's great.
Sarah Caminiti (18:30):
Well, I think that that's.
That's really cool, though,that you're allowing yourself to
think about it that way,because the education system is
so driven by results immediateresults, and people learn.
People learn heavy thingsdifferently.
Suneet Bhatt (18:49):
They do.
Look, it helps that I'mteaching, you know, a class on
on purpose versus a cat class,right?
Where there's a, where it isnot just a discipline but a
prerequisite, right?
So I think there's, there'sthat.
But what, to your point, if Idon't, if I'm not honest about
the space I have, then I won'ttake advantage of it, and I
(19:10):
think we have had that luxuryand I don't know if I've fully
embraced it, like I'm going totalk to my students about this
like next week, right?
Sarah Caminiti (19:18):
I will, I will.
Suneet Bhatt (19:21):
I will.
Sarah Caminiti (19:23):
That's great.
How did this happen?
How did this realization thatpurpose needed to be reframed
and there was a way to reframeit, and there was a way to
connect with people on such anintimate and vulnerable level.
How did that happen in yourjourney?
Suneet Bhatt (19:49):
and vulnerable level.
How did that happen in yourjourney?
Yeah, it's a bit.
A little bit circuitous andI've not found a way to tell the
story efficiently, so I'm goingto stumble through it, but I'll
go for it, I think so.
The first thing I tell is astory.
When I first started working Iwas in this program at
Prudential and somehow I gotthis access through my manager.
(20:09):
At the time I had quite anumber of interactions with the
CEO of Prudential.
So Art Ryan was taking thecompany public and somehow I had
fallen in his good graces andhe came and spoke to our group
and he did this great story.
And he came and spoke to ourgroup and he did this great
story and he talked aboutemployees and he said look, it's
(20:30):
1998, right, I'm an old man.
He's like look, the world haschanged.
He's like people don't work ata company forever anymore.
There is now a contract betweenthe employer and the employee,
right?
And he's like the employer saysthis is the work I need done,
and the employee says this isthe work I want to do.
(20:50):
And if those two overlap, theemployer says if you do this in
good faith, these will be yourrewards and I will set you up
for this.
Next thing you do will be astop, a pit stop, on your career
journey, right?
And the employee says, great, Iwill opt in, I will operate
with integrity, and you havethat.
I was like that's reallypowerful.
Let's acknowledge this isn't alifetime contract anymore.
(21:11):
These are short-term socialcontracts and that just gestated
for a while and as I became amanager, the thing that really
started clicking for me was thebest way to build a team is to
have people opt in to the work.
If they opt in to the work,then your job as a manager is so
(21:34):
much easier.
So companies spend tons of timewriting the job descriptions
and creating the roles, thefunctions and the roles, roles
and what the accountability isfor that role right, they do a
ton of time on that and thenthey put a job description out.
They do some interviews andindividuals interview for those
(21:55):
roles.
But the way they look at themis they tend to look at the
bullet points, right?
They tend to say, oh, is this,is this?
You know how much time do I getremote?
What's the compensation?
So they opt in based on thetransactions, but nobody has
helped the employees.
Nobody's done a good jobhelping people say who are you
and what's your decision-makingframework for what you want to
(22:16):
opt into.
So that always hit me and so Iwould always spend a ton of time
with people trying to figureout what they wanted to do, and
I would do this at the end ofevery year so they could then
opt in.
And my biggest, like thelargest number of departures for
my team were always JanuaryCause I would drop this bomb on
(22:37):
these people in December and I'dsay go think about it.
And they'd come back and a lotof people would be like I gotta
go do something else.
And I was like great, let's gofigure that out.
I had to go do something else.
I was like great, let's gofigure that out.
Then, as I started buildingbigger teams, my last company we
built was 1,200 people.
1,100 of them reported to mearound the world Never met them
(23:00):
during COVID.
I had to systematize this wayof opting people in because I
had to do that at scale.
And as I did that, people werelike you know what, Suneet, you
should coach.
This is a great framework youshould coach.
I started doing executivecoaching and then at some point
the oldest person I worked withwas 67, right, and at 67, after
exiting two companies, raisingan amazing family, had a heart
(23:25):
issue.
Raising an amazing family had aheart issue.
And he was like Suneet, I don'tknow why I'm doing what I'm
doing Like you're 67, dude,You're like the embodiment of
success, personally,professionally, everything.
And at that moment I was like,all right, we got to work with
you and then I was like how muchhappiness, joy, productivity.
(23:45):
We got to work with you andthen I was like how much
happiness, joy, productivity,how much like human goodwill are
we wasting by not equippingpeople with this stuff until
they raise their hand at amidlife crisis?
So I wrote a one pager,literally a one pager.
I pitched it to Duke and Ipitched it to Rutgers.
Duke invites me to come doworkshops every once in a while,
(24:08):
but I met a director, ryanGreenbaum, at Rutgers and he,
over one beer.
He was like you read the onepager.
He's like you got a class.
I was like I've never taughtbefore.
He's like you'll figure it out.
He's like we need to do this,we need to try this if it
doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
He's like I'll support you, buthe's like we need to do this,
we need to try this.
If it doesn't work, it doesn'twork.
(24:28):
He's like I'll support you, buthe's like we need to try this,
and that was, you know, threeand a half, four years ago, and
you know we talked about it atthe event.
The thing that is life-changingfor me is Rutgers released their
five-year strategic plan andtheir first goal and first
bullet point is helping studentsfind their purpose, and I think
(24:49):
that's really important,because now the university is
getting it, which is educationis under attack.
We're not equipping studentsfor the new world and for
success, and part of that iswe've got to help them
understand themselves betterfirst before we fill them with
all this objective externalinformation.
The receptacle has to bewell-defined and ready to
(25:12):
receive, and so I saw him figureout a way, short way, to tell
that story, but that's like thejourney.
That's like the journey to howthis has become the thing I want
to do for the rest of my lifehow this has become the thing.
Sarah Caminiti (25:25):
I want to do for the rest of my life.
Man you have I just talk aboutthe universe like telling you
that you are doing the rightthing by sending it out this,
just a one pager.
And not only did both placesbuy in like they cause, even
though you're just teaching atRutgers, you're still working on
(25:47):
stuff over at Duke.
But Rutgers acknowledged thatthe education system, especially
colleges, right now it's notlike what it was like 50 years
ago, where you would get adegree in this one thing and
then you would spend your lifewith this one thing that tied
perfectly to what your degreewas in.
Yeah, because now nothing like Idon't even have a college
(26:10):
degree, I didn't finish college,and it is one of those things
that for a long time there was alot of shame that I felt about
it, and then it was like, butwait a second, I'm able.
I defined my own path, Ifigured out what I was good at,
I was able to think outside thebox for it, I was able to just
(26:33):
trust myself in in this specificarea when I didn't trust myself
in so many other areas, and andbuild something that I'm proud
of.
And if schools acknowledge thatpeople evolve and that purpose
does change.
Core values change as you startto identify more things about
(26:58):
yourself and explore new thingsLike think about how school
could be Like.
This could be the start of ashift in how colleges approach
helping people transition safelyinto adulthood.
Suneet Bhatt (27:14):
You've hit it.
I think.
What is the role right?
When you think about what isyour purpose, college?
What is your purpose right?
And your purpose is not to justfill people and push them
through with a degree.
The expectation has to behigher.
Are you equipping them with adegree or are you preparing them
(27:36):
for life?
And what's next?
And those are two verydifferent things.
And I think for a while,college looked at their role and
their job as getting people toa degree right.
And when you change thestandard, it's not about the
degree.
Sure, that's a certification ofthe value you've delivered, but
(27:57):
that expectation has to be whatare we preparing you for?
And I think I love the fact, Ilove your story and I can
imagine dude like you and I areprobably about the same vintage
and I remember when.
I remember when college degreewas on the on the job
description, and I remember thetrend to remove it right, which
(28:20):
isn't.
That hasn't been that long,it's 10, 11 years is the first
time I remember having theconversation of like, no, I
don't care about the collegedegree, I care about the
experience.
But that's pretty recent, right, and so that makes your journey
even more magnificent, I think,which is awesome, like blazing
(28:42):
your own trail.
That's great.
That's great.
Sarah Caminiti (28:46):
I think that the purpose, though one of the
reasons why I struggled so muchin college was I didn't know if
I made the right decision withmy major.
There was so much pressure topick I mean, there's a there's a
multitude of reasons why, whycollege and I just ended up
being a giant anxiety attack butbut there was so much pressure
(29:13):
in knowing what you were goingto do and the amount of money
that's put into you areinvesting in your purpose, and I
knew there were things that Iloved.
I knew that there were thingsthat I had never heard of that
I'm sure I would love, and I hadno idea how to be intentional
(29:42):
with every single second that Iwas there.
And it was so overwhelmingbecause you're just, I was
constantly feeling doubtful, andthat, I think, is an
opportunity, with what you'redoing in Rutgers, to kind of
flip things on its head for asecond and say you don't have to
(30:05):
know what you're going to dofor the rest of your life.
Like you shouldn't, like youshould 100% not know what you
want to do for the rest of yourlife.
Like, please, um, becausethat's just a lot to put on a
child.
Suneet Bhatt (30:21):
Oh yeah, I think, look, uh, I think there we
reframe.
One of the things we talk aboutis there are a lot of you know
there's there's more than onefor, and there's, you know,
forever, there's for the rest ofyour life.
And then there's sometimes justfor now, like just, and I think
there are plenty of students tocome in and they know exactly
what they want to do and I saygreat, like we can serve.
(30:48):
The way we're going to serveyou is we're going to help you
understand who you are better.
So, in pursuit of that thingthat you want so badly, we're
going to help you do it in amore healthy and sustainable way
.
So that's like one cohort ofpeople we serve.
The other cohort of people weserve are a bunch of people who
are like well, there's anothergroup that's like I don't know
what I want to do.
You help them unearththemselves and they're like oh
(31:09):
wow, I'm actually been doing thething I want to do the whole
darn time.
Right, it's like your alpacastory, Like this is what I'm
really good at.
They just didn't take creditfor it yet.
So we're gonna help you takecredit.
And then the other people whoare like, hey, don't worry about
forever.
Let's just talk about for now,Like, what's the thing, what's
the next thing you want to try?
And how do you inform that?
(31:30):
And positive, like from a placeof positivity, how do you
inform that in a reallyenergizing way?
So you actually want to runthat experiment and I think
that's, that's great.
So there are some studentswhere it's like, yeah, you know
what you want to do.
I think you're right.
For the rest of them and forall of them, you still want the
ability to say, great, like, dothat thing, Even if you change
(31:53):
your mind, it's going to be okay, You're going to be okay,
You're just going to be okay.
And I think that that rigor Imean these students this is the
most anxious generation.
Right, it is the on one side.
They've got all this anxiety,but what people don't give this
(32:14):
generation credit for is they'reso anxious because they're so
smart.
They're the smartest generation, they're the most self-aware,
they're the most inclusive.
Right, there are all thesebeautiful things, but we haven't
taught them how to channel thatinto a healthy way of making
progress and so they just feelall the anxiety we felt.
(32:35):
But, like 10 X, right, they'regoing through a lot.
I love man, they are amazing.
They're going through a lot.
We got to help.
Sarah Caminiti (32:47):
Yeah, we do, we really do.
You said something earlier thatreally resonated with how much
more accessible knowledge is tous now, and I think that that is
something that is reallyimportant to acknowledge the
opportunity to embrace itthoughtfully.
Acknowledge the opportunity toembrace it thoughtfully and not
(33:08):
in a.
Not in a.
Now we can Google anything andeverything, but now, in
something that you would havetaken like a year researching to
make sure that you covered allof your bases, you can now
research that same exact thingin 30 seconds and you can have
chat, gpt, compile all of thestuff that you've done and you
(33:30):
can digest it in a way thatworks for you, because you've
trained it in order to deliverinformation in a way that's
digestible to you.
And what a weight lifted off ofthe individual's shoulders to
know like you didn't forgetsomething you didn't miss, like
the one golden nugget that wasgoing to change everything, like
(33:52):
the opportunity for secondguessing your research, your gut
feelings, your just yourquestions.
That can be diminished if wecapitalize on the tools that we
have in a way that is helpfuland encouraging.
Suneet Bhatt (34:15):
And healthy, yeah, I mean.
So I encourage my students touse Gen AI.
I think it is.
You know, I do, I will do, willdo the audit right.
If they've fully outsourced itand it comes back 100 percent ai
generated, then we have aproblem, yes, but if it comes
back even like a third right, uh, if there's some like
(34:37):
adaptation, I want to understandwhere it is, but depending on
it, I'm like that's great,that's the way this work should
be done.
You know, we were in.
I was at a conference this pastweek in New York City and the
topic there's quite a bit ofdiscussion around Gen AI and one
of there's a gentleman at ourtable who has never used it,
(34:58):
which I found fascinating, veryaccomplished, very successful.
Yeah, there were six of us, andthese are all pretty,
everyone's pretty accomplishedprofessionals.
There was one that hadn't usedit, which I found fascinating,
very accomplished, verysuccessful.
Yeah, there were six of us, andthese are all pretty, you know,
everyone's pretty accomplishedprofessionals.
There was one that hadn't usedit at all and so we ended up
spending the 30-minute breakoutjust giving him.
(35:19):
You know, everyone haddifferent ideas and suggestions
on how they use it right, how dothey use it to, you know, to
maintain momentum and to augmentand complement who they are.
Some people are like I use it tooriginate.
Some people use it to review.
I use it to synthesize, I useit to edit.
I use it because my tone isharsh, so I use it to soften my
(35:45):
tone and make me more likable.
Uh, like, people are using itfor all of these different
reasons and um, and the thing we, the thing we came away with
there are a few which is one um,it's going to make, it's, it's
not going to eliminate jobs, inthat, in that regard, what it's
going.
But what is going to happen isit's going to eliminate the
(36:08):
people who don't use it as apart of their job.
So, whether you're a doctor,whether you're customer success,
whatever you are, if youhaven't integrated it into your
life to increase yourproductivity and capability,
then it's going to beproblematic.
So, to go back to your point,the conversation we should be
having is how do we use this,how do we use these tools and
(36:33):
how do we integrate them to makeus just increase our
productivity, right, andincrease our capability and
increase our value and impact,right?
So these conversations arehappening all the time.
That was the first like reallyaccomplished individual I'd come
across who was also like nope,I haven't touched it yet.
(36:55):
It's like wow, that'sfascinating.
Sarah Caminiti (36:58):
Man, I wonder what will happen, like what will
be the reason why they changetheir tune, like what will
happen where they have to try itand what their feelings are
after.
Suneet Bhatt (37:10):
Yeah, I, you know some of the advice we gave, uh,
one of them was uh, this contentis coming your way and if you
don't engage with it, you're notgoing to be able to know what's
real and what's fake.
And so if you don't immerseyourself in the experience, then
you're not going to be able totell, you're just going to be
(37:33):
victim, right?
You're going to be easilyexploited and manipulated, and
so part of it is I just as tablestakes.
I just need to be familiar withwhat it does so that I can not
be caught off guard or surprised, and I think that seemed to,
that seemed to click a littlebit.
Like you know, if, if theupside isn't going to work, and
(37:57):
some of the fear, some of thefear mongering might, might help
you get started.
It's not sustainable, but maybeit gets you started, right?
Sarah Caminiti (38:04):
Dip your toes in it out of complete terror.
Yeah, exactly, and the waterswere safe after all, so you're
totally fine.
Now, as you've been goingthrough this transformative
purpose that you are definingfor yourself, which is something
(38:25):
that I'm sure is very differentthan what you imagined for
yourself, which is somethingthat I'm sure is very different
than what you imagined foryourself, how have you, as a
person, just kind of sat in itall and thought about it?
Suneet Bhatt (38:38):
Look, I think the only reason I've had the ability
to make this shift is becausemy wife is amazing, and so you
know, I think she has createdthe grandest space for me, uh,
in her ability to say, hey,you've done a lot.
Like, you've done well, you'vetaken care of us, you've done
well.
Like this is the look at yourface when you come back from
(39:02):
class, like we'll take you thisway, like go do this thing, and
then it's meaningful impact.
So I think literally all ofthis is possible because of my
wife, and then I think withinthat context, she's created even
the financial space to be likeall right, you're probably not
(39:23):
going to make a lot of moneylike for a while, so don't make
a lot of money.
Right, I've been luckyProfessionally.
I think I've had some success.
I've had a couple exits in myown capacity from past companies
that will continue to buoy us,at least my contribution for a
little bit.
So that has helped.
I feel really blessed and luckythat some of that stuff is
(39:46):
bearing fruit at the right time,and I think it's only very
recently that I've it started toclick and connect.
I would say the one thing I didwell that I will take credit for
is I gave myself and you'veheard me use this term, but I
gave myself space and grace,like when I went on this journey
(40:07):
.
I just said year one, just runexperiments.
So I consulted, I took anotherSaaS job, I did all these things
and I very quickly made fasterdecisions about what wasn't
working and what is so that wasthe first thing I hit.
That, and this year I said, isabout product market fit.
(40:27):
So when I got to the end ofthis year, I wanted product
market fit and market messagefit.
So I gave myself a full yearand it was great that coming
into september, I think I've gotthis really pithy sentence that
really encompasses everythingthat I want to do going forward.
And now I've got the toolsright, like my own framework and
(40:48):
this EOS EntrepreneurialOperating System framework,
which I know you're familiarwith and have read the book and
have done some amazing thingspersonally with it.
So I think I had an incrediblesponsor and partner who gave me
air cover.
Partner, uh, who gave me aircover.
(41:11):
Um, I gave myself space, buthonestly um, you know, not
cartoonishly so I was aware of,like, some of the basic truths
financial et cetera that I needto be successful.
I gave myself milestones thatwere manageable and really
worked against it, um, and it'sworked out.
It's it's worked out prettywell.
I think I really played to mystrengths and I feel sick.
(41:33):
It took me probably 18 monthsto like feel good, right, so I
was doing the work and the workwas great, but the space between
was not, and it's really onlythis summer that I like feel
like really good about thisstuff and I'll have moments and
(42:01):
I'll talk about it and I feellike I found the thing I just
talk about forever, um, withsome credibility and with some
passion, um, and that's like agood feeling.
Hopefully that answers thequestion what did I do to sit in
it and how did I create thespace?
But yeah hopefully that's,helpful.
Sarah Caminiti (42:21):
No, I think that that's really helpful and I
think that that was a veryhonest approach to answering the
question, because it's veryeasy to answer questions like
this by being you know, tellingthe really the good things you
know not I won't saysugarcoating it, but cherry
(42:42):
picking the bits that you wantto share I mean Instagram,
curate your version of the storyand and going on a path like
this one that is an emotionallydriven journey.
For those that are open to goingon this journey with you, I
(43:05):
think that is a super vulnerablething for you, as the person
that is the administrator ofthese tools, to have to put
yourself in over and over again,because you're not only needing
to sell it, to get them onboard and to buy into it, or and
over again, because you're notonly needing to sell it, to get
them on board and to buy into itor to opt into it.
You're also needing them tototally let themselves go Be,
(43:34):
something that is usually unsafein new situations, and you have
to disarm them, and that meansthat you have to be a very
disarming person, and that takesa lot of energy.
Suneet Bhatt (43:50):
It does.
One thing I'll tell you, Ithink, if I double down on that
discussion and you said thewords, you have to sell it.
I think, look, I have run salesand revenue.
I've carried numbers overhundreds of millions of dollars
from a revenue perspective forbusinesses.
So I have done a lot of salesbut I've never been the product
(44:18):
and I think that's really hardthan the product and I think
that is really that's reallyhard, um, cause when people say
no, they're not saying no to thething you say sell, they're
saying no to you and that's likethat's hard, right, and the
flip I've made in the last fewmonths, uh, and I always I talk
about this in a lot ofcapacities, so the word space is
really important for me.
I talk about space and grace, um, but I also talk about don't
(44:39):
chase, like, make space.
And that applies to love, likewhen I talk to family is my.
Don't chase love like, justmake space for it and it will
find you.
Don't chase your dreams likemake space for them and they
will, they will find you, likeit's all about don't chase space
.
But I think the thing that I'vereally started to do from a
work perspective is stop chasing, like if I have to convince you
(45:04):
and it's so funny because Iwould do this for, like, a sass
product or a services product ifI have to convince you to buy
me and I have to convince you tostay and I don't want that
pressure.
So now I'm just trying to createthis opt-in environment and the
moment I hit friction in thatconversation I'm just like, hey,
(45:25):
this isn't a good fit.
If I can be helpful, let meknow.
I've got a client right now whois probably one of my three or
four largest clients and I'vegot a great connection in some
capacities.
But I'm starting to feel a lotof friction, like in other areas
, and I've been struggling withthis for the last few days and I
(45:45):
think in my head I'm like youknow, I can't.
I can't spend my time trying toconvince people that this may be
right for them, like they needto make that choice, and so that
has been really helpful is alittle bit less on the selling,
but even taking the opt-in stuffwe talked about at the
beginning and just making myprocess about opt-in In my class
(46:08):
you sign a contract like youopt-in to being on time, showing
up et cetera, like I just wanteverybody to opt-in.
And if you don't like nopressure like I love you, go do
you.
But if you're not going to optand if you don't like no
pressure like I love you, go doyou.
Sarah Caminiti (46:21):
But if you're not going to opt in, then it's
probably not going to work.
Wow, wow, I I really appreciatethat and I love that you do
that with the class too, becauseone of the things that I've
learned uh, hard lessons thatI've learned is you have to get
people to confirm theyunderstand the expectations, and
(46:46):
if you don't, then you don'thave a really a leg to stand on
if things don't go the way thatyou had hoped because you didn't
take the time to check in andsay hey, I just want to make
sure you do understand.
I need you to be in class onthese days, I need you to do
this, I need you to do that, andit's such a simple thing.
(47:07):
But because it's so simple, Ithink it is a very easy thing
for people to leave off of theirschedule.
Suneet Bhatt (47:14):
Yeah, it's an easy skip yeah, it's such an easy
skip.
And like, I've got midterms tograde now and I'm going to go
back to this too.
I know who's in, I know who'snot.
And I'm going to be like I'mjust going to highlight the
social contract at the beginningand be like hey, you remember
this thing.
You haven't honored it, sothat's reflected in your grade.
Like that's, you've set thestandard.
And what's interesting, I think,is like, um, that, uh, if you
(47:37):
weren't clear on the front end,um, like, then you're gonna,
you're, you're scrambling, it'sunclear and what I've found you
know as like from a experiencein a tip standpoint right, which
is, um, if you haven't takenthe time to like set that
(47:57):
standard and expectation, whenyour expectation isn't met, like
the best way to handle it isown it and say sorry.
So, like, if you're in thatcontext, just be like this is
100% my fault.
It's not clear.
You eliminate the he said, shesaid, of the past, you eliminate
the back and forth and you justtake 100% credit and blame.
(48:20):
This is 100% my fault.
Going forward, this is likelet's set the standard Are you
in, are we out?
And that gets everybody back onthe same page without having to
you just like just wipe awaythe past and use that to set a
new standard.
And it works like in everyrelationship, it works in every
capacity.
And it works like in everyrelationship.
It works in every capacity.
And it just eliminates so much,like just so much anxiety and
(48:41):
back and forth, right?
Sarah Caminiti (48:42):
I love that you acknowledge that, because I
couldn't agree more.
It is the.
It is the biggest waste of timeto try to like just relitigate
the past.
Yes, it's like, it's done.
I'm I've like, once I've likeshared something or or got off
of my chest.
If I'm frustrated aboutsomething or what have you,
usually I'm good, like like, I'mdone, like okay, now do we need
(49:08):
to come up with a plan so thatwe don't go down this path in
the future?
Or let's just give each other ahigh five and continue on our
journey.
I'm not holding anythingagainst you.
Let's just give each other ahigh five and continue on our
journey.
I'm not holding anythingagainst you.
I said my piece we're good,we're good.
(49:30):
Yeah, it's like the EOS stuff,though I've got to, I've.
We don't obviously have a tonof time.
That help you kind of let go ofthe stress and pressure that
happens when you are sellingyourself.
Suneet Bhatt (49:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd say a few things, Ithink One I watched EOS a few
times and how immenselysuccessful and powerful it was.
That's the first thing.
The way I talk about it is whensomeone handed me a copy of
Traction, the book that GinaWickman wrote about, that
codifies EOS.
(50:10):
The way I talk about it is Isay it's like someone gave me
the lyrics to a song I've beensinging my whole life, but
singing incorrectly.
Right, like I was singing thewrong words too.
So like it's not.
You know, hold me closer, tonyDanza Right, like that's not
what it is.
So it's like that.
It just made everything justsnapped into place and became
(50:35):
crystal clear.
So the first thing was it feltso normal and natural and
authentic.
Second, I saw it work sopowerfully.
And third, look, the personalwork I do is so deep.
It's therapy, right, likepeople were reaching out to me
after the Elevate conference andthey were like that was
actually just Suneet, you justran a therapy session for 120
people, right, and that ispowerful.
(50:59):
It's an emotional weight Icarry because every one of those
conversations is deeplymeaningful to me and I want to
honor it.
Eos allows me to scale in atrusted framework, fill my days
and create space between thatdeep personal by actually being
really an objective facilitator,and I love that.
The two, the values, are thesame Look, get unstuck, find
(51:23):
your purpose, reach yourpotential.
That's for human beings andthat's for organizations, and
that's what EOS does fororganizations.
It fits, it just fits.
But I think the thing you saidis like it does.
It helps me, it helps me scale,it takes the pressure off me.
I can externalize a little bitand say that's the process.
(51:43):
Even like when you rate an EOSmeeting, you don't rate the
facilitator.
You're like how did we do as ateam?
And so it created some healthyspace for me, which I think was
also really important.
That's why I just I thought Imean, I've just fallen in love
with it.
Sarah Caminiti (51:58):
I had a very similar reaction when I read
Traction.
Um, it just it was.
I'm a very efficient person.
I like to be very intentionaland purposeful, um, and clear,
sometimes obnoxiously clear andthat is that is the EOS
(52:19):
framework.
I loved that right seat, rightperson because it took the
pressure and we spoke about thisin Elevate but it takes the
pressure off of you.
Did something wrong to.
This is what is needed rightnow, this is what you need right
now, and there isn't an overlaplike there used to be, and
(52:42):
that's not a bad thing.
That says nothing, that there'snothing negative about that.
That's actually something thatwe can celebrate.
See if there's another seat,but otherwise, let me help you
find your seat and let me guideyou to your seat.
Let me help you find your seatand let me guide you to your
seat.
And I think that that, in theculture that we have I mean the
(53:02):
United States is like an at willplace anyway, of there's so
much guilt and weight to carry,and there's nothing wrong with a
job no longer being what youneed to to be successful, for
you, to utilize your skillseffectively and to be able to
(53:23):
acknowledge it.
That's it.
Suneet Bhatt (53:26):
Dude, you hit it and I know when we talked I was
like I mean, you get EOS likefrom the inside out, like you
feel it.
You've even adapted some of itfor your own person.
The way you've worked with Eosis really is beautiful and
powerful, um, and I think, uh,they would be honored by the way
you've like, by the way you'vebrought it to life for you.
(53:46):
Um, so right people, rightseats.
I love.
I think the way you talk aboutit is great, is it?
It is so everything about eosis about the long-term greater
good of the organization and soas soon as you put your head
down and start bickering,everybody's got to look up and
be like is this for thelong-term greater good of the
organization?
So everybody gets the sameNorth Star right, which is
(54:09):
objective, which is why yournumber one rule of business is
stay in business right.
So I think that is reallypowerful.
And then, as a result of that,what you actually do is you say
we don't start with people first, we start with structure and
function and responsibilityfirst and then we find the way
to map people to the seats.
(54:33):
It works with what I do, becausein the US I was explaining this
to my teaching assistant, isfrom Nepal, and so we were
talking about health care and Iwas like, look, what the US did
years and years ago was theytied health care to work.
There was a long time where, ifyou didn't have a job, you
couldn't get health care, and sothey really made it.
(54:54):
They made your personal healthand wellness interconnected with
your job, and I think now whatwe're trying to do is write
people, write seats.
We're decoupling your identityfrom the seat that you occupy,
and now we've got to give thesepeople something to fill that.
Who like who are you is notyour job.
(55:16):
Who are you is not founder, myauthentic story, professional
EOS implementer.
That's not who I am right,that's what I do.
It's not even why I do.
It's what I do right, but it'snot who I am, and so I think
we're starting to see the needto decouple those a little bit.
Eos facilitates.
(55:37):
You know a lot of this work iscoming at us, but we've got to
really help people figure outwho they are objectively.
Sarah Caminiti (55:45):
Objectively.
I think that's the biggestthing.
Objectively and that's what Ithink that there's a lot of
opportunity with AI to do thingslike that.
Objectively Also, I think thatit is going to be exciting to
see hopefully it happens theevolution of this kind of change
in mindset, where we'reactually looking for alignment.
(56:07):
It is alignment and youralignment will evolve.
And when you work in a startup,especially, or a small tech
company, your alignment willevolve because the company is
evolving and you have to bestrong enough and empowered
(56:28):
enough to articulate your value,your purpose, you, who you you
are and how that connects towhat's going on in the company,
and say, safely, I no longerhave alignment, and then the
(56:49):
conversation will be well, let'shelp you find alignment.
Suneet Bhatt (56:54):
Yeah, where do you want to go?
You hit look, you hit thearticulation point really
powerfully, like, if you thinkabout it, uh, the best story
you've ever told and the beststory you've ever heard was not
memorized, it was just known andfelt really deeply and that was
what brought it to life.
(57:15):
And so, in order to get peopleto articulate that story and
understand that alignment, wehave to help them know
themselves better than they havebefore and better than anyone
else ever will.
And if we can help every personwe help, do that, we'll find
that alignment so much moreauthentically and easier.
Sarah Caminiti (57:35):
So, yeah, well, that was a powerful, a powerful
culmination right there.
We are so close to time andit's killing me right now, but
you already told us your era inthe very beginning, and so
you're way ahead of the game,but you ended on such a
(57:55):
beautiful note right there thatI think that's better than an
era, and I am so freaking happyyou are going to be the closer
of the first season of EpochalGrowth.
And I think that you are thebest person for it, so thank you
so much for gifting me withyour time.
Suneet Bhatt (58:14):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy we met and yourenergy is outstanding and I am
rooting for you and I can't wait.
I can't wait to talk and domore together.
Sarah Caminiti (58:23):
Me too.
Me too, I think that, uh, Ithink we're gonna.
We've got a lot in common, soI'm excited to see where it goes
, and I'm just so excited foryou and for everything you're
doing, because I think it'sreally important and you're
starting conversations thatpeople were too Nervous to have,
and so thank you for that.
Suneet Bhatt (58:38):
Of course, thank you, bud Take care.
Sarah Caminiti (58:40):
See you later.
See you later, Bye, Bye-bye.
And that is a wrap on seasonone of Epochal Growth.
I couldn't have asked for abetter closing conversation with
Suneet.
We have explored leadership andpurpose and personal evolution
throughout this season, and thatwasn't even the purpose of this
podcast to begin with, which iswhat the coolest piece of this
(59:04):
journey has been Having theseincredible leaders give me with
their time.
We have just had really coolconversations about the things
that they've learned and thethings that we can learn from
them, and how we can approachlife and leadership differently
and what we're capable of.
This episode ties all of thistogether with key lessons about
(59:24):
vulnerability and alignment andgrowth.
I want to thank all of you fortuning in and joining me on this
wild bonkers ride.
Be sure to catch up on anyepisodes you may have missed and
stay connected as we preparefor season two with even more
transformative conversations.
(59:44):
Find me on LinkedIn.
If you're a part of theElevateCX Slack community,
always say hello.
Don't be a stranger.
Season two is going to have alot of really exciting changes
and I can't wait to share it allwith you.
Sign up for the newsletter.
Just stick around.
It's going to be worth it, Ipromise.
But until then, keep reflecting, keep growing and remember
(01:00:08):
nothing is forever and that'sthe beauty of it.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
This is Epochal Growth.
Have a great day.
Welcome to the final episode of season one of
Epochal Growth.
I'm Sarah C and I'm so happythat you're here.
I couldn't think of a betterway to close out this incredible
journey than with today's guest.
Suneet Bhatt is atransformational leader.
He's a coach and he's a mentor,and he led a workshop in Denver
at the ElevateCX conferencethat was called Happy Proud, not
(00:31):
Yet Satisfied, and he forcedeverybody that was in the room
to reflect and to givethemselves permission to answer
hard questions that we usuallyavoid and then to spend time
with those questions.
I was really excited to meethim and introduce myself to him,
and I was beyond excited whenhe agreed to be a guest on this
(00:54):
podcast.
Once he did agree, I knew hehad to be the closer for the
season.
In this episode, we reflect onthe importance of vulnerability
and personal growth, and we talkabout stepping into new eras
with intention, because when youdo that, you are taking
ownership of what's to come andyou are allowing yourself the
time and the space to reflect onwhere you've been and how
(01:15):
that's gotten you to where youare.
If you're ready to finish thisseason with actionable insights
and fresh inspiration, thisepisode is for you.
Enough of my rambling.
I can't believe this is thelast episode.
Let's dive in.
Suneet Bhatt (01:30):
Hi everybody.
It's nice to meet you and,sarah, just from your smile,
that's exactly how I picture youall the time with your energy.
Thank you for having me on.
I'm excited to have thisconversation and see where we
take it In terms of you know, bythe ways of introduction, I
think the way I'm someone whobeen through, as you talk about
(01:51):
sort of epochs and eras right, Ithink you're catching me as I
just emerged into what I thinkis, you know, finding purpose in
the third era of, I think, whatwill be the four eras of my
life, and the way I talk aboutmyself, which I'm just sort of
arriving at and so excited toshare and just hear what you
think and what the audiencethinks, whether it makes sense.
(02:13):
Even so, I started talking aboutmyself professionally is I help
people in organizations getunstuck, find their purpose and
reach their potential.
And for people, I focus on aframework I built that I teach
at Rutgers, that I brought toprofessionals, which is a find
and evolve your purposeframework.
(02:33):
And then, in terms oforganizations, I work through a
framework at an organizationcalled EOS, where we help
organizations again get unstuck,get in alignment and operate
with discipline andaccountability and really get
everything they want from theircompany.
So, professionally, that's kindof how I talk about myself.
(02:54):
The reason I think of it as mythird sort of era you've got me
thinking in this mindset isbecause right now, my top
priority and the most impactfulthing I will do, regardless of
what I do professionally, is setour kids up for success.
And so you know, on the frontend and on the back end of this
(03:18):
era it is the definition ofsuccess is are my kids just
happy?
Do they just feelextraordinarily loved and do
they feel like they're going tobe okay, like no matter what
happens?
And so that's all the context.
But I think, end point to endpoint, that's the most important
thing I'll do right now.
(03:38):
Is that helpful?
Sarah Caminiti (03:40):
Is that helpful?
My gosh, that was the mostbeautiful introduction I think
I've ever seen Like I, havingsomeone anticipate there to be
four seasons that existthroughout your journey and kind
(04:13):
of enter into this space, thislife, knowing that these four
things are going to happen.
And I would love to know whereyou came up with this kind of
this mindset.
Suneet Bhatt (04:30):
Yeah, look, I think I kind of cheated, right.
So I think what I thought ofera is, I think, almost like
geologically right.
And so I think you operate insort of you think, in terms of
the four geologic eras, and Ithink that's where my anchor was
.
I usually tend to break thingsdown into threes.
This is the one time I went forfour.
I'm a big rule of threeoperator in general, but this
(04:54):
time four felt right.
And then, as I looked at thatand I was like you know what,
actually, I think for me fourmakes a ton of sense, because I
think the first is when we arekids like ourselves, and we are
truly carefree, right.
I think the second, we're beingcared for, right.
I think the second is when weare independent and sort of on
(05:17):
our own right, so we're adultswithout responsibility, and that
is really about sort ofexperiments and geologically
they actually talk about it as,like you know, oceans in space,
like arriving and retreating,like they talk about it as this,
like earthen experimentation,right.
I think the third is where I'mat now, where I'm responsible
(05:40):
for, right.
And then I think the fourth isyet to be defined, but at the
end of this journey, the fourthis where I'm really thinking
about, probably legacy right,like what is, what is what is
left of me?
The thing you are the most isthe thing you are after.
(06:01):
It's what you are.
The thing you are for longestis your memory and your legacy
right, and so I think it's niceto be able to have that space,
and I still got some time beforeI get there, but I that's kind
of how it started, so it wasgeologic and then it just kind
of made sense.
Sarah Caminiti (06:17):
So I love that, I really do love that, and I
think that also allows you thespace in, just like mentally, to
automatically acknowledge thatthis is now, this isn't before,
this isn't later, this is, andnot dwell on past mistakes, past
(06:42):
choices.
They have brought you to thisnew era and what you take with
it is up to you, um, but theydon't define you and, and that's
very important, yeah, I, I lovethat, um, I think, uh, I love
that you shared um sort of that.
Suneet Bhatt (07:03):
Uh, the way you talked about it makes a ton of
sense, which is this journey,and there is before and there's
after.
There's no end, it's continuous, and we are a result, for
better or for worse.
We are a result, we're aproduct, right of what sort of
got us here and we should honorthat.
And I think that's the mostimportant thing is when you try
and hide from it.
It's funny.
(07:23):
Yesterday, the class that Itaught in my framework at
Rutgers is this concept oftruths, which is I don't want
you to talk to students about,for the whole classes.
I don't want them to change whothey are, I just want them to
own it, I want them toacknowledge it and I want them
to decide what they're going toacknowledge and accept, what
they're going to adapt to, whatthey are going to let go.
(07:46):
I just want them to spend sometime in the truth.
It's not limits, it's notlimitations, it's not
restrictions, it's not mistakes,it's just the truth.
What's the truth and how areyou going to accept it before
you move forward?
So I think that the way youjust framed it kind of dovetails
nicely with that.
Sarah Caminiti (08:06):
What was the response when you were talking
about the truths with your class?
Suneet Bhatt (08:10):
Look they're.
You know they're 17 to 21, 22.
So I think some of this stuffgoes over their heads and it's
funny, two, three years afterI'll have students come back to
me and say, okay, I now get thatthing that you're talking about
.
But that's important, I think Iactually I actually struggled.
I think when I first startedteaching the class um, I
(08:32):
struggled with um.
Is it landing?
Are they getting it today?
And I actually now look at it,as I'm going to plant a bunch of
seeds and they're going to growat different rates and I feel
no urgency or pressure for themto internalize it.
What I want them to do is getit, hear it and if they come
(08:53):
back to it down the line, theycome back to it.
So I just want them to have thesource material.
So some students got it.
Some students' eyes glazed over.
They enjoyed parts of it.
Some of it was maybe too heavy,but I think it's important for
me to present the informationand then they have it as a
takeaway.
Sarah Caminiti (09:18):
But I think that was the way it landed yesterday
with to plant seeds in peoplethat are so like they are at a
stage of life where they don'tknow what's going to happen and
you're telling them that a lotof the things that we don't talk
(09:42):
about are actually things thatare going to guide you and and
that is a rare, a rareoccurrence for that stage of
life to have someone give areality check in a way that is
advantageous to the listenerwhen they are ready to listen.
(10:03):
Yeah, Because it's hard.
I think that anything aboutpurpose is overwhelming.
Suneet Bhatt (10:13):
It shouldn't be.
I think I'm part of the chat.
Yeah, I think you've hit itRight.
It is, and part of that is wehave made it this mythical, like
heavy aspirational.
It's on a pedestal, it ispotentially unattainable, but
you feel the pressure of it allthe time.
(10:33):
I think we have just gottenpurpose wrong and, as a result
of that, we have made it muchharder for people to even
attempt it, let alone, you know,understand their, let alone
understand their journey towardsit.
So I love that.
And something you just saidwhich blew my head, which my
(10:54):
head exploded with, is look, Ispent some time in communication
theory, right, so we have donedifferent areas of customer
engagement.
We always talk about differenttypes of communication theory.
The one communication modelI've never heard before which I
think we just scratched thesurface on here you always talk
(11:14):
about, like Berlow, sender,message channel, receiver, right
, we assume that those aredominoes and continuous, those
are dominoes and continuous.
What's interesting is there isa communication model where you
do your job to create, presentand make the information
available and then, at somepoint, when the time is right,
(11:35):
the person receives it, they optin, they find it, they receive
it, and nobody ever dude.
I got to look this up.
Nobody ever talks about thatwhat happens between channel and
receiver as being a time lapseand a discovery exercise, which
I think our current state ofknowledge, dissemination and
(11:58):
availability makes possible,which wasn't possible 40 years
ago, 50 years ago whencommunication theory was being
developed.
So that is really interesting.
I got to process that.
So that was neat.
That was a neat share, it was agood moment.
Sarah Caminiti (12:14):
Cool.
Well, I'm glad because I thinkthat that is something that I'm
learning through this incrediblejourney that I've been on these
past handful of months of whenI have given myself space to
reflect or celebrate oracknowledge things that are
(12:34):
powerful about myself, allows meto acknowledge things that
happened before that I wasn'table to fully understand or see
or anticipate the impact for,and now I can appreciate it.
(12:56):
And I think the easiest exampleis I've forever the alpaca has
been like my spirit animal andit's.
It all started when I was like19 or 20 years old.
I was working at Victoria'sSecret and we were trying to get
everybody to sign up for thesecredit cards.
(13:17):
Like that was like your mainpurpose in life was to get
people to sign up for theVictoria's Secret credit card.
I was always very good at itbecause I could connect with
people very quickly and throughthat I noticed that everybody
around me started to get kind oflike discouraged or the
(13:39):
momentum dropped or just likethey totally forgot about it.
They were overwhelmed.
So I created this whole likelike reward system of we get to
make a post-it and we add it toa post-it.
And I realized I cannot draw atall and I tried to draw
something and it ended up justlooking like a sad derpy alpaca.
Suneet Bhatt (14:03):
And I don't even know what it was.
Sarah Caminiti (14:06):
It was supposed to be.
I think it may have been ahorse, but it just went downhill
fast.
But that started this wholething with alpacas just kind of
being what people would gift mewith and everything like that.
Suneet Bhatt (14:16):
And.
Sarah Caminiti (14:17):
I only recently I realized the reason why I have
attached myself so much to thisalpaca and didn't know it was.
It was the first time that Ireally trusted myself and tried
something as a leader to buildsomething that drawing and that
post-it board Building thiswhole post-it board.
Suneet Bhatt (14:37):
Our numbers blew up.
Sarah Caminiti (14:38):
That's awesome.
We were the top credit cardpeople in the New England area.
After this strange credit cardpost-it, we would have themes.
Every week we would changethemes.
It would be circus themes, andthen you draw the post-it to go
with the circus and whatever,Like I owned, being inventive
(15:04):
and and and empowering people tocelebrate in dorky little ways.
And I was 19 years old and uh,and now the alpaca is truly like
my little, my little trophy ofit, that now I did that and I
never.
I never made that correlationbefore and and I think that it
(15:26):
just took time to be able toacknowledge that I was doing
great things before I even knewI was doing great things.
Suneet Bhatt (15:33):
Before you knew it and acknowledge it.
Ah, I love that.
Uh, so what tell what?
Is there any identity?
Have you looked up the alpacato understand more about the
creature, the habits?
Is there anything else aboutthe alpaca?
Sarah Caminiti (15:51):
So I did go through a deep exploration of
alpaca many years ago.
I'd imagine I'm a researcher,if you haven't realized that yet
.
Suneet Bhatt (15:58):
Yeah, fact finder.
Sarah Caminiti (16:00):
They greet you with Eskimo kisses, and that's
how they greet all of theirfriends.
And they even greet people withEskimo kisses, and that's how
they greet all of their friends.
Suneet Bhatt (16:06):
Uh, and like they even greet people with Eskimo
kisses.
Sarah Caminiti (16:10):
Um, and like, if you go to an alpaca farm and
they don't spit, like a llamaspits?
Um, they're.
They are very mild mannered butthey're very playful and
inclusive.
And um, they're just theselovely, like happy creatures and
(16:31):
I know, I know I would, that'sso wild.
An eskimo kiss, and who knew mysad horse would actually bring
me to the truth that is theultimate reframe.
Suneet Bhatt (16:42):
Like I love that refrframe a sad horse to a
blissfully happy alpaca.
That's great, that's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti (16:50):
I love it with it and appreciate it.
It will show itself and uh, andmake you realize that this
isn't new, that you, it's justyou and own it and celebrate it
(17:11):
and build on it.
But what you're doing withthese kids is that you're
showing them what's possible.
Suneet Bhatt (17:16):
Yeah, I love that.
I have not thought too hardabout it.
Yesterday was yesterday, was agreat class and it was fun to
like.
It's one of the harder.
It's one of the harder classesbecause, as a concept, it's just
hard to think about truth andthe things that we face and how
do we overcome these obstacles?
Sometimes the only way toovercome it is to just accept it
and then say this is now acondition I deal with, but I
(17:42):
haven't thought about this.
Plant the seed, when will it?
When will it actually germinateand when will it be impactful?
And what's interesting is like,as parents, that's kind of what
we do, right, we are plantingseeds all the time and you hope
it shows up when your childneeds it most, right?
Um, I didn't.
I never thought about it as alike a model and I never thought
(18:03):
about it.
Also as it applies to students.
I think sometimes when we'reteaching, we are so urgent in
wanting the feedback of theclick that sometimes we may put
too much pressure on the studentto learn.
And there's something there, asopposed to just deliver and you
(18:24):
know, let it.
Let it take hold when it can.
I love that.
That's great.
Sarah Caminiti (18:30):
Well, I think that that's.
That's really cool, though,that you're allowing yourself to
think about it that way,because the education system is
so driven by results immediateresults, and people learn.
People learn heavy thingsdifferently.
Suneet Bhatt (18:49):
They do.
Look, it helps that I'mteaching, you know, a class on
on purpose versus a cat class,right?
Where there's a, where it isnot just a discipline but a
prerequisite, right?
So I think there's, there'sthat.
But what, to your point, if Idon't, if I'm not honest about
the space I have, then I won'ttake advantage of it, and I
(19:10):
think we have had that luxuryand I don't know if I've fully
embraced it, like I'm going totalk to my students about this
like next week, right?
Sarah Caminiti (19:18):
I will, I will.
Suneet Bhatt (19:21):
I will.
Sarah Caminiti (19:23):
That's great.
How did this happen?
How did this realization thatpurpose needed to be reframed
and there was a way to reframeit, and there was a way to
connect with people on such anintimate and vulnerable level.
How did that happen in yourjourney?
Suneet Bhatt (19:49):
and vulnerable level.
How did that happen in yourjourney?
Yeah, it's a bit.
A little bit circuitous andI've not found a way to tell the
story efficiently, so I'm goingto stumble through it, but I'll
go for it, I think so.
The first thing I tell is astory.
When I first started working Iwas in this program at
Prudential and somehow I gotthis access through my manager.
(20:09):
At the time I had quite anumber of interactions with the
CEO of Prudential.
So Art Ryan was taking thecompany public and somehow I had
fallen in his good graces andhe came and spoke to our group
and he did this great story.
And he came and spoke to ourgroup and he did this great
story and he talked aboutemployees and he said look, it's
(20:30):
1998, right, I'm an old man.
He's like look, the world haschanged.
He's like people don't work ata company forever anymore.
There is now a contract betweenthe employer and the employee,
right?
And he's like the employer saysthis is the work I need done,
and the employee says this isthe work I want to do.
(20:50):
And if those two overlap, theemployer says if you do this in
good faith, these will be yourrewards and I will set you up
for this.
Next thing you do will be astop, a pit stop, on your career
journey, right?
And the employee says, great, Iwill opt in, I will operate
with integrity, and you havethat.
I was like that's reallypowerful.
Let's acknowledge this isn't alifetime contract anymore.
(21:11):
These are short-term socialcontracts and that just gestated
for a while and as I became amanager, the thing that really
started clicking for me was thebest way to build a team is to
have people opt in to the work.
If they opt in to the work,then your job as a manager is so
(21:34):
much easier.
So companies spend tons of timewriting the job descriptions
and creating the roles, thefunctions and the roles, roles
and what the accountability isfor that role right, they do a
ton of time on that and thenthey put a job description out.
They do some interviews andindividuals interview for those
(21:55):
roles.
But the way they look at themis they tend to look at the
bullet points, right?
They tend to say, oh, is this,is this?
You know how much time do I getremote?
What's the compensation?
So they opt in based on thetransactions, but nobody has
helped the employees.
Nobody's done a good jobhelping people say who are you
and what's your decision-makingframework for what you want to
(22:16):
opt into.
So that always hit me and so Iwould always spend a ton of time
with people trying to figureout what they wanted to do, and
I would do this at the end ofevery year so they could then
opt in.
And my biggest, like thelargest number of departures for
my team were always JanuaryCause I would drop this bomb on
(22:37):
these people in December and I'dsay go think about it.
And they'd come back and a lotof people would be like I gotta
go do something else.
And I was like great, let's gofigure that out.
I had to go do something else.
I was like great, let's gofigure that out.
Then, as I started buildingbigger teams, my last company we
built was 1,200 people.
1,100 of them reported to mearound the world Never met them
(23:00):
during COVID.
I had to systematize this wayof opting people in because I
had to do that at scale.
And as I did that, people werelike you know what, Suneet, you
should coach.
This is a great framework youshould coach.
I started doing executivecoaching and then at some point
the oldest person I worked withwas 67, right, and at 67, after
exiting two companies, raisingan amazing family, had a heart
(23:25):
issue.
Raising an amazing family had aheart issue.
And he was like Suneet, I don'tknow why I'm doing what I'm
doing Like you're 67, dude,You're like the embodiment of
success, personally,professionally, everything.
And at that moment I was like,all right, we got to work with
you and then I was like how muchhappiness, joy, productivity.
(23:45):
We got to work with you andthen I was like how much
happiness, joy, productivity,how much like human goodwill are
we wasting by not equippingpeople with this stuff until
they raise their hand at amidlife crisis?
So I wrote a one pager,literally a one pager.
I pitched it to Duke and Ipitched it to Rutgers.
Duke invites me to come doworkshops every once in a while,
(24:08):
but I met a director, ryanGreenbaum, at Rutgers and he,
over one beer.
He was like you read the onepager.
He's like you got a class.
I was like I've never taughtbefore.
He's like you'll figure it out.
He's like we need to do this,we need to try this if it
doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
He's like I'll support you, buthe's like we need to do this,
we need to try this.
If it doesn't work, it doesn'twork.
(24:28):
He's like I'll support you, buthe's like we need to try this,
and that was, you know, threeand a half, four years ago, and
you know we talked about it atthe event.
The thing that is life-changingfor me is Rutgers released their
five-year strategic plan andtheir first goal and first
bullet point is helping studentsfind their purpose, and I think
(24:49):
that's really important,because now the university is
getting it, which is educationis under attack.
We're not equipping studentsfor the new world and for
success, and part of that iswe've got to help them
understand themselves betterfirst before we fill them with
all this objective externalinformation.
The receptacle has to bewell-defined and ready to
(25:12):
receive, and so I saw him figureout a way, short way, to tell
that story, but that's like thejourney.
That's like the journey to howthis has become the thing I want
to do for the rest of my lifehow this has become the thing.
Sarah Caminiti (25:25):
I want to do for the rest of my life.
Man you have I just talk aboutthe universe like telling you
that you are doing the rightthing by sending it out this,
just a one pager.
And not only did both placesbuy in like they cause, even
though you're just teaching atRutgers, you're still working on
(25:47):
stuff over at Duke.
But Rutgers acknowledged thatthe education system, especially
colleges, right now it's notlike what it was like 50 years
ago, where you would get adegree in this one thing and
then you would spend your lifewith this one thing that tied
perfectly to what your degreewas in.
Yeah, because now nothing like Idon't even have a college
(26:10):
degree, I didn't finish college,and it is one of those things
that for a long time there was alot of shame that I felt about
it, and then it was like, butwait a second, I'm able.
I defined my own path, Ifigured out what I was good at,
I was able to think outside thebox for it, I was able to just
(26:33):
trust myself in in this specificarea when I didn't trust myself
in so many other areas, and andbuild something that I'm proud
of.
And if schools acknowledge thatpeople evolve and that purpose
does change.
Core values change as you startto identify more things about
(26:58):
yourself and explore new thingsLike think about how school
could be Like.
This could be the start of ashift in how colleges approach
helping people transition safelyinto adulthood.
Suneet Bhatt (27:14):
You've hit it.
I think.
What is the role right?
When you think about what isyour purpose, college?
What is your purpose right?
And your purpose is not to justfill people and push them
through with a degree.
The expectation has to behigher.
Are you equipping them with adegree or are you preparing them
(27:36):
for life?
And what's next?
And those are two verydifferent things.
And I think for a while,college looked at their role and
their job as getting people toa degree right.
And when you change thestandard, it's not about the
degree.
Sure, that's a certification ofthe value you've delivered, but
(27:57):
that expectation has to be whatare we preparing you for?
And I think I love the fact, Ilove your story and I can
imagine dude like you and I areprobably about the same vintage
and I remember when.
I remember when college degreewas on the on the job
description, and I remember thetrend to remove it right, which
(28:20):
isn't.
That hasn't been that long,it's 10, 11 years is the first
time I remember having theconversation of like, no, I
don't care about the collegedegree, I care about the
experience.
But that's pretty recent, right, and so that makes your journey
even more magnificent, I think,which is awesome, like blazing
(28:42):
your own trail.
That's great.
That's great.
Sarah Caminiti (28:46):
I think that the purpose, though one of the
reasons why I struggled so muchin college was I didn't know if
I made the right decision withmy major.
There was so much pressure topick I mean, there's a there's a
multitude of reasons why, whycollege and I just ended up
being a giant anxiety attack butbut there was so much pressure
(29:13):
in knowing what you were goingto do and the amount of money
that's put into you areinvesting in your purpose, and I
knew there were things that Iloved.
I knew that there were thingsthat I had never heard of that
I'm sure I would love, and I hadno idea how to be intentional
(29:42):
with every single second that Iwas there.
And it was so overwhelmingbecause you're just, I was
constantly feeling doubtful, andthat, I think, is an
opportunity, with what you'redoing in Rutgers, to kind of
flip things on its head for asecond and say you don't have to
(30:05):
know what you're going to dofor the rest of your life.
Like you shouldn't, like youshould 100% not know what you
want to do for the rest of yourlife.
Like, please, um, becausethat's just a lot to put on a
child.
Suneet Bhatt (30:21):
Oh yeah, I think, look, uh, I think there we
reframe.
One of the things we talk aboutis there are a lot of you know
there's there's more than onefor, and there's, you know,
forever, there's for the rest ofyour life.
And then there's sometimes justfor now, like just, and I think
there are plenty of students tocome in and they know exactly
what they want to do and I saygreat, like we can serve.
(30:48):
The way we're going to serveyou is we're going to help you
understand who you are better.
So, in pursuit of that thingthat you want so badly, we're
going to help you do it in amore healthy and sustainable way
.
So that's like one cohort ofpeople we serve.
The other cohort of people weserve are a bunch of people who
are like well, there's anothergroup that's like I don't know
what I want to do.
You help them unearththemselves and they're like oh
(31:09):
wow, I'm actually been doing thething I want to do the whole
darn time.
Right, it's like your alpacastory, Like this is what I'm
really good at.
They just didn't take creditfor it yet.
So we're gonna help you takecredit.
And then the other people whoare like, hey, don't worry about
forever.
Let's just talk about for now,Like, what's the thing, what's
the next thing you want to try?
And how do you inform that?
(31:30):
And positive, like from a placeof positivity, how do you
inform that in a reallyenergizing way?
So you actually want to runthat experiment and I think
that's, that's great.
So there are some studentswhere it's like, yeah, you know
what you want to do.
I think you're right.
For the rest of them and forall of them, you still want the
ability to say, great, like, dothat thing, Even if you change
(31:53):
your mind, it's going to be okay, You're going to be okay,
You're just going to be okay.
And I think that that rigor Imean these students this is the
most anxious generation.
Right, it is the on one side.
They've got all this anxiety,but what people don't give this
(32:14):
generation credit for is they'reso anxious because they're so
smart.
They're the smartest generation, they're the most self-aware,
they're the most inclusive.
Right, there are all thesebeautiful things, but we haven't
taught them how to channel thatinto a healthy way of making
progress and so they just feelall the anxiety we felt.
(32:35):
But, like 10 X, right, they'regoing through a lot.
I love man, they are amazing.
They're going through a lot.
We got to help.
Sarah Caminiti (32:47):
Yeah, we do, we really do.
You said something earlier thatreally resonated with how much
more accessible knowledge is tous now, and I think that that is
something that is reallyimportant to acknowledge the
opportunity to embrace itthoughtfully.
Acknowledge the opportunity toembrace it thoughtfully and not
(33:08):
in a.
Not in a.
Now we can Google anything andeverything, but now, in
something that you would havetaken like a year researching to
make sure that you covered allof your bases, you can now
research that same exact thingin 30 seconds and you can have
chat, gpt, compile all of thestuff that you've done and you
(33:30):
can digest it in a way thatworks for you, because you've
trained it in order to deliverinformation in a way that's
digestible to you.
And what a weight lifted off ofthe individual's shoulders to
know like you didn't forgetsomething you didn't miss, like
the one golden nugget that wasgoing to change everything, like
(33:52):
the opportunity for secondguessing your research, your gut
feelings, your just yourquestions.
That can be diminished if wecapitalize on the tools that we
have in a way that is helpfuland encouraging.
Suneet Bhatt (34:15):
And healthy, yeah, I mean.
So I encourage my students touse Gen AI.
I think it is.
You know, I do, I will do, willdo the audit right.
If they've fully outsourced itand it comes back 100 percent ai
generated, then we have aproblem, yes, but if it comes
back even like a third right, uh, if there's some like
(34:37):
adaptation, I want to understandwhere it is, but depending on
it, I'm like that's great,that's the way this work should
be done.
You know, we were in.
I was at a conference this pastweek in New York City and the
topic there's quite a bit ofdiscussion around Gen AI and one
of there's a gentleman at ourtable who has never used it,
(34:58):
which I found fascinating, veryaccomplished, very successful.
Yeah, there were six of us, andthese are all pretty,
everyone's pretty accomplishedprofessionals.
There was one that hadn't usedit, which I found fascinating,
very accomplished, verysuccessful.
Yeah, there were six of us, andthese are all pretty, you know,
everyone's pretty accomplishedprofessionals.
There was one that hadn't usedit at all and so we ended up
spending the 30-minute breakoutjust giving him.
(35:19):
You know, everyone haddifferent ideas and suggestions
on how they use it right, how dothey use it to, you know, to
maintain momentum and to augmentand complement who they are.
Some people are like I use it tooriginate.
Some people use it to review.
I use it to synthesize, I useit to edit.
I use it because my tone isharsh, so I use it to soften my
(35:45):
tone and make me more likable.
Uh, like, people are using itfor all of these different
reasons and um, and the thing we, the thing we came away with
there are a few which is one um,it's going to make, it's, it's
not going to eliminate jobs, inthat, in that regard, what it's
going.
But what is going to happen isit's going to eliminate the
(36:08):
people who don't use it as apart of their job.
So, whether you're a doctor,whether you're customer success,
whatever you are, if youhaven't integrated it into your
life to increase yourproductivity and capability,
then it's going to beproblematic.
So, to go back to your point,the conversation we should be
having is how do we use this,how do we use these tools and
(36:33):
how do we integrate them to makeus just increase our
productivity, right, andincrease our capability and
increase our value and impact,right?
So these conversations arehappening all the time.
That was the first like reallyaccomplished individual I'd come
across who was also like nope,I haven't touched it yet.
(36:55):
It's like wow, that'sfascinating.
Sarah Caminiti (36:58):
Man, I wonder what will happen, like what will
be the reason why they changetheir tune, like what will
happen where they have to try itand what their feelings are
after.
Suneet Bhatt (37:10):
Yeah, I, you know some of the advice we gave, uh,
one of them was uh, this contentis coming your way and if you
don't engage with it, you're notgoing to be able to know what's
real and what's fake.
And so if you don't immerseyourself in the experience, then
you're not going to be able totell, you're just going to be
(37:33):
victim, right?
You're going to be easilyexploited and manipulated, and
so part of it is I just as tablestakes.
I just need to be familiar withwhat it does so that I can not
be caught off guard or surprised, and I think that seemed to,
that seemed to click a littlebit.
Like you know, if, if theupside isn't going to work, and
(37:57):
some of the fear, some of thefear mongering might, might help
you get started.
It's not sustainable, but maybeit gets you started, right?
Sarah Caminiti (38:04):
Dip your toes in it out of complete terror.
Yeah, exactly, and the waterswere safe after all, so you're
totally fine.
Now, as you've been goingthrough this transformative
purpose that you are definingfor yourself, which is something
(38:25):
that I'm sure is very differentthan what you imagined for
yourself, which is somethingthat I'm sure is very different
than what you imagined foryourself, how have you, as a
person, just kind of sat in itall and thought about it?
Suneet Bhatt (38:38):
Look, I think the only reason I've had the ability
to make this shift is becausemy wife is amazing, and so you
know, I think she has createdthe grandest space for me, uh,
in her ability to say, hey,you've done a lot.
Like, you've done well, you'vetaken care of us, you've done
well.
Like this is the look at yourface when you come back from
(39:02):
class, like we'll take you thisway, like go do this thing, and
then it's meaningful impact.
So I think literally all ofthis is possible because of my
wife, and then I think withinthat context, she's created even
the financial space to be likeall right, you're probably not
(39:23):
going to make a lot of moneylike for a while, so don't make
a lot of money.
Right, I've been luckyProfessionally.
I think I've had some success.
I've had a couple exits in myown capacity from past companies
that will continue to buoy us,at least my contribution for a
little bit.
So that has helped.
I feel really blessed and luckythat some of that stuff is
(39:46):
bearing fruit at the right time,and I think it's only very
recently that I've it started toclick and connect.
I would say the one thing I didwell that I will take credit for
is I gave myself and you'veheard me use this term, but I
gave myself space and grace,like when I went on this journey
(40:07):
.
I just said year one, just runexperiments.
So I consulted, I took anotherSaaS job, I did all these things
and I very quickly made fasterdecisions about what wasn't
working and what is so that wasthe first thing I hit.
That, and this year I said, isabout product market fit.
(40:27):
So when I got to the end ofthis year, I wanted product
market fit and market messagefit.
So I gave myself a full yearand it was great that coming
into september, I think I've gotthis really pithy sentence that
really encompasses everythingthat I want to do going forward.
And now I've got the toolsright, like my own framework and
(40:48):
this EOS EntrepreneurialOperating System framework,
which I know you're familiarwith and have read the book and
have done some amazing thingspersonally with it.
So I think I had an incrediblesponsor and partner who gave me
air cover.
Partner, uh, who gave me aircover.
(41:11):
Um, I gave myself space, buthonestly um, you know, not
cartoonishly so I was aware of,like, some of the basic truths
financial et cetera that I needto be successful.
I gave myself milestones thatwere manageable and really
worked against it, um, and it'sworked out.
It's it's worked out prettywell.
I think I really played to mystrengths and I feel sick.
(41:33):
It took me probably 18 monthsto like feel good, right, so I
was doing the work and the workwas great, but the space between
was not, and it's really onlythis summer that I like feel
like really good about thisstuff and I'll have moments and
(42:01):
I'll talk about it and I feellike I found the thing I just
talk about forever, um, withsome credibility and with some
passion, um, and that's like agood feeling.
Hopefully that answers thequestion what did I do to sit in
it and how did I create thespace?
But yeah hopefully that's,helpful.
Sarah Caminiti (42:21):
No, I think that that's really helpful and I
think that that was a veryhonest approach to answering the
question, because it's veryeasy to answer questions like
this by being you know, tellingthe really the good things you
know not I won't saysugarcoating it, but cherry
(42:42):
picking the bits that you wantto share I mean Instagram,
curate your version of the storyand and going on a path like
this one that is an emotionallydriven journey.
For those that are open to goingon this journey with you, I
(43:05):
think that is a super vulnerablething for you, as the person
that is the administrator ofthese tools, to have to put
yourself in over and over again,because you're not only needing
to sell it, to get them onboard and to buy into it, or and
over again, because you're notonly needing to sell it, to get
them on board and to buy into itor to opt into it.
You're also needing them tototally let themselves go Be,
(43:34):
something that is usually unsafein new situations, and you have
to disarm them, and that meansthat you have to be a very
disarming person, and that takesa lot of energy.
Suneet Bhatt (43:50):
It does.
One thing I'll tell you, Ithink, if I double down on that
discussion and you said thewords, you have to sell it.
I think, look, I have run salesand revenue.
I've carried numbers overhundreds of millions of dollars
from a revenue perspective forbusinesses.
So I have done a lot of salesbut I've never been the product
(44:18):
and I think that's really hardthan the product and I think
that is really that's reallyhard, um, cause when people say
no, they're not saying no to thething you say sell, they're
saying no to you and that's likethat's hard, right, and the
flip I've made in the last fewmonths, uh, and I always I talk
about this in a lot ofcapacities, so the word space is
really important for me.
I talk about space and grace, um, but I also talk about don't
(44:39):
chase, like, make space.
And that applies to love, likewhen I talk to family is my.
Don't chase love like, justmake space for it and it will
find you.
Don't chase your dreams likemake space for them and they
will, they will find you, likeit's all about don't chase space
.
But I think the thing that I'vereally started to do from a
work perspective is stop chasing, like if I have to convince you
(45:04):
and it's so funny because Iwould do this for, like, a sass
product or a services product ifI have to convince you to buy
me and I have to convince you tostay and I don't want that
pressure.
So now I'm just trying to createthis opt-in environment and the
moment I hit friction in thatconversation I'm just like, hey,
(45:25):
this isn't a good fit.
If I can be helpful, let meknow.
I've got a client right now whois probably one of my three or
four largest clients and I'vegot a great connection in some
capacities.
But I'm starting to feel a lotof friction, like in other areas
, and I've been struggling withthis for the last few days and I
(45:45):
think in my head I'm like youknow, I can't.
I can't spend my time trying toconvince people that this may be
right for them, like they needto make that choice, and so that
has been really helpful is alittle bit less on the selling,
but even taking the opt-in stuffwe talked about at the
beginning and just making myprocess about opt-in In my class
(46:08):
you sign a contract like youopt-in to being on time, showing
up et cetera, like I just wanteverybody to opt-in.
And if you don't like nopressure like I love you, go do
you.
But if you're not going to optand if you don't like no
pressure like I love you, go doyou.
Sarah Caminiti (46:21):
But if you're not going to opt in, then it's
probably not going to work.
Wow, wow, I I really appreciatethat and I love that you do
that with the class too, becauseone of the things that I've
learned uh, hard lessons thatI've learned is you have to get
people to confirm theyunderstand the expectations, and
(46:46):
if you don't, then you don'thave a really a leg to stand on
if things don't go the way thatyou had hoped because you didn't
take the time to check in andsay hey, I just want to make
sure you do understand.
I need you to be in class onthese days, I need you to do
this, I need you to do that, andit's such a simple thing.
(47:07):
But because it's so simple, Ithink it is a very easy thing
for people to leave off of theirschedule.
Suneet Bhatt (47:14):
Yeah, it's an easy skip yeah, it's such an easy
skip.
And like, I've got midterms tograde now and I'm going to go
back to this too.
I know who's in, I know who'snot.
And I'm going to be like I'mjust going to highlight the
social contract at the beginningand be like hey, you remember
this thing.
You haven't honored it, sothat's reflected in your grade.
Like that's, you've set thestandard.
And what's interesting, I think,is like, um, that, uh, if you
(47:37):
weren't clear on the front end,um, like, then you're gonna,
you're, you're scrambling, it'sunclear and what I've found you
know as like from a experiencein a tip standpoint right, which
is, um, if you haven't takenthe time to like set that
(47:57):
standard and expectation, whenyour expectation isn't met, like
the best way to handle it isown it and say sorry.
So, like, if you're in thatcontext, just be like this is
100% my fault.
It's not clear.
You eliminate the he said, shesaid, of the past, you eliminate
the back and forth and you justtake 100% credit and blame.
(48:20):
This is 100% my fault.
Going forward, this is likelet's set the standard Are you
in, are we out?
And that gets everybody back onthe same page without having to
you just like just wipe awaythe past and use that to set a
new standard.
And it works like in everyrelationship, it works in every
capacity.
And it works like in everyrelationship.
It works in every capacity.
And it just eliminates so much,like just so much anxiety and
(48:41):
back and forth, right?
Sarah Caminiti (48:42):
I love that you acknowledge that, because I
couldn't agree more.
It is the.
It is the biggest waste of timeto try to like just relitigate
the past.
Yes, it's like, it's done.
I'm I've like, once I've likeshared something or or got off
of my chest.
If I'm frustrated aboutsomething or what have you,
usually I'm good, like like, I'mdone, like okay, now do we need
(49:08):
to come up with a plan so thatwe don't go down this path in
the future?
Or let's just give each other ahigh five and continue on our
journey.
I'm not holding anythingagainst you.
Let's just give each other ahigh five and continue on our
journey.
I'm not holding anythingagainst you.
I said my piece we're good,we're good.
(49:30):
Yeah, it's like the EOS stuff,though I've got to, I've.
We don't obviously have a tonof time.
That help you kind of let go ofthe stress and pressure that
happens when you are sellingyourself.
Suneet Bhatt (49:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'd say a few things, Ithink One I watched EOS a few
times and how immenselysuccessful and powerful it was.
That's the first thing.
The way I talk about it is whensomeone handed me a copy of
Traction, the book that GinaWickman wrote about, that
codifies EOS.
(50:10):
The way I talk about it is Isay it's like someone gave me
the lyrics to a song I've beensinging my whole life, but
singing incorrectly.
Right, like I was singing thewrong words too.
So like it's not.
You know, hold me closer, tonyDanza Right, like that's not
what it is.
So it's like that.
It just made everything justsnapped into place and became
(50:35):
crystal clear.
So the first thing was it feltso normal and natural and
authentic.
Second, I saw it work sopowerfully.
And third, look, the personalwork I do is so deep.
It's therapy, right, likepeople were reaching out to me
after the Elevate conference andthey were like that was
actually just Suneet, you justran a therapy session for 120
people, right, and that ispowerful.
(50:59):
It's an emotional weight Icarry because every one of those
conversations is deeplymeaningful to me and I want to
honor it.
Eos allows me to scale in atrusted framework, fill my days
and create space between thatdeep personal by actually being
really an objective facilitator,and I love that.
The two, the values, are thesame Look, get unstuck, find
(51:23):
your purpose, reach yourpotential.
That's for human beings andthat's for organizations, and
that's what EOS does fororganizations.
It fits, it just fits.
But I think the thing you saidis like it does.
It helps me, it helps me scale,it takes the pressure off me.
I can externalize a little bitand say that's the process.
(51:43):
Even like when you rate an EOSmeeting, you don't rate the
facilitator.
You're like how did we do as ateam?
And so it created some healthyspace for me, which I think was
also really important.
That's why I just I thought Imean, I've just fallen in love
with it.
Sarah Caminiti (51:58):
I had a very similar reaction when I read
Traction.
Um, it just it was.
I'm a very efficient person.
I like to be very intentionaland purposeful, um, and clear,
sometimes obnoxiously clear andthat is that is the EOS
(52:19):
framework.
I loved that right seat, rightperson because it took the
pressure and we spoke about thisin Elevate but it takes the
pressure off of you.
Did something wrong to.
This is what is needed rightnow, this is what you need right
now, and there isn't an overlaplike there used to be, and
(52:42):
that's not a bad thing.
That says nothing, that there'snothing negative about that.
That's actually something thatwe can celebrate.
See if there's another seat,but otherwise, let me help you
find your seat and let me guideyou to your seat.
Let me help you find your seatand let me guide you to your
seat.
And I think that that, in theculture that we have I mean the
(53:02):
United States is like an at willplace anyway, of there's so
much guilt and weight to carry,and there's nothing wrong with a
job no longer being what youneed to to be successful, for
you, to utilize your skillseffectively and to be able to
(53:23):
acknowledge it.
That's it.
Suneet Bhatt (53:26):
Dude, you hit it and I know when we talked I was
like I mean, you get EOS likefrom the inside out, like you
feel it.
You've even adapted some of itfor your own person.
The way you've worked with Eosis really is beautiful and
powerful, um, and I think, uh,they would be honored by the way
you've like, by the way you'vebrought it to life for you.
(53:46):
Um, so right people, rightseats.
I love.
I think the way you talk aboutit is great, is it?
It is so everything about eosis about the long-term greater
good of the organization and soas soon as you put your head
down and start bickering,everybody's got to look up and
be like is this for thelong-term greater good of the
organization?
So everybody gets the sameNorth Star right, which is
(54:09):
objective, which is why yournumber one rule of business is
stay in business right.
So I think that is reallypowerful.
And then, as a result of that,what you actually do is you say
we don't start with people first, we start with structure and
function and responsibilityfirst and then we find the way
to map people to the seats.
(54:33):
It works with what I do, becausein the US I was explaining this
to my teaching assistant, isfrom Nepal, and so we were
talking about health care and Iwas like, look, what the US did
years and years ago was theytied health care to work.
There was a long time where, ifyou didn't have a job, you
couldn't get health care, and sothey really made it.
(54:54):
They made your personal healthand wellness interconnected with
your job, and I think now whatwe're trying to do is write
people, write seats.
We're decoupling your identityfrom the seat that you occupy,
and now we've got to give thesepeople something to fill that.
Who like who are you is notyour job.
(55:16):
Who are you is not founder, myauthentic story, professional
EOS implementer.
That's not who I am right,that's what I do.
It's not even why I do.
It's what I do right, but it'snot who I am, and so I think
we're starting to see the needto decouple those a little bit.
Eos facilitates.
(55:37):
You know a lot of this work iscoming at us, but we've got to
really help people figure outwho they are objectively.
Sarah Caminiti (55:45):
Objectively.
I think that's the biggestthing.
Objectively and that's what Ithink that there's a lot of
opportunity with AI to do thingslike that.
Objectively Also, I think thatit is going to be exciting to
see hopefully it happens theevolution of this kind of change
in mindset, where we'reactually looking for alignment.
(56:07):
It is alignment and youralignment will evolve.
And when you work in a startup,especially, or a small tech
company, your alignment willevolve because the company is
evolving and you have to bestrong enough and empowered
(56:28):
enough to articulate your value,your purpose, you, who you you
are and how that connects towhat's going on in the company,
and say, safely, I no longerhave alignment, and then the
(56:49):
conversation will be well, let'shelp you find alignment.
Suneet Bhatt (56:54):
Yeah, where do you want to go?
You hit look, you hit thearticulation point really
powerfully, like, if you thinkabout it, uh, the best story
you've ever told and the beststory you've ever heard was not
memorized, it was just known andfelt really deeply and that was
what brought it to life.
(57:15):
And so, in order to get peopleto articulate that story and
understand that alignment, wehave to help them know
themselves better than they havebefore and better than anyone
else ever will.
And if we can help every personwe help, do that, we'll find
that alignment so much moreauthentically and easier.
Sarah Caminiti (57:35):
So, yeah, well, that was a powerful, a powerful
culmination right there.
We are so close to time andit's killing me right now, but
you already told us your era inthe very beginning, and so
you're way ahead of the game,but you ended on such a
(57:55):
beautiful note right there thatI think that's better than an
era, and I am so freaking happyyou are going to be the closer
of the first season of EpochalGrowth.
And I think that you are thebest person for it, so thank you
so much for gifting me withyour time.
Suneet Bhatt (58:14):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy we met and yourenergy is outstanding and I am
rooting for you and I can't wait.
I can't wait to talk and domore together.
Sarah Caminiti (58:23):
Me too.
Me too, I think that, uh, Ithink we're gonna.
We've got a lot in common, soI'm excited to see where it goes
, and I'm just so excited foryou and for everything you're
doing, because I think it'sreally important and you're
starting conversations thatpeople were too Nervous to have,
and so thank you for that.
Suneet Bhatt (58:38):
Of course, thank you, bud Take care.
Sarah Caminiti (58:40):
See you later.
See you later, Bye, Bye-bye.
And that is a wrap on seasonone of Epochal Growth.
I couldn't have asked for abetter closing conversation with
Suneet.
We have explored leadership andpurpose and personal evolution
throughout this season, and thatwasn't even the purpose of this
podcast to begin with, which iswhat the coolest piece of this
(59:04):
journey has been Having theseincredible leaders give me with
their time.
We have just had really coolconversations about the things
that they've learned and thethings that we can learn from
them, and how we can approachlife and leadership differently
and what we're capable of.
This episode ties all of thistogether with key lessons about
(59:24):
vulnerability and alignment andgrowth.
I want to thank all of you fortuning in and joining me on this
wild bonkers ride.
Be sure to catch up on anyepisodes you may have missed and
stay connected as we preparefor season two with even more
transformative conversations.
(59:44):
Find me on LinkedIn.
If you're a part of theElevateCX Slack community,
always say hello.
Don't be a stranger.
Season two is going to have alot of really exciting changes
and I can't wait to share it allwith you.
Sign up for the newsletter.
Just stick around.
It's going to be worth it, Ipromise.
But until then, keep reflecting, keep growing and remember
(01:00:08):
nothing is forever and that'sthe beauty of it.
I'm Sarah Caminiti.
This is Epochal Growth.
Have a great day.
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