July 30, 2024 • 53 mins
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Curious about how empathy can revolutionize customer experience and support? Join us as we sit down with Lauren Eimers, a therapist-turned-customer-experience expert, who shares her unique journey from counseling psychology to the SaaS industry. Discover why empathy is an untrainable yet essential skill for success, how it should be a core consideration in hiring, and the transformative impact of mentorship for women and newcomers in tech. Lauren also discusses the complexities of measuring impact through metrics and the holistic approach needed to truly understand and improve customer experiences.
Ever wondered how interconnected your company's departments really are? Lauren likens customer support and success teams to a terrarium, where every department must work symbiotically to enhance user experience and reduce churn. We dive into the emotional vulnerability of customers and the crucial need for support teams to be involved early in product development and marketing. This integrated approach ensures a holistic feedback loop that not only solves problems but also fosters a supportive and empathetic environment for both customers and internal teams.
Don't miss our exploration of the unexpected ripple effects of support roles and the power of community-based mentorship. Lauren emphasizes the importance of creating supportive spaces where vulnerability is welcomed and growth is nurtured. We discuss how senior leaders can learn from younger mentors through curiosity, transforming defensiveness into opportunities for collaboration and understanding. Ultimately, the episode underscores the immense value of genuine human connection in customer support, advocating for intentional, meaningful communication that drives positive change within communities. Get ready to be inspired and empowered to be the change you seek!
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:03):
How many times have you thought there has to be
a better way?
Welcome to Epochal Growth, apodcast where we invite industry
leaders and change makers whothought that very thing and
realized that, yeah, a betterway to lead or to grow or to
build does exist.
And once they trustedthemselves enough to discover
(00:24):
what's possible, they createdthe foundation for a new era
that's revolutionizing thelandscape of success.
The word epochal refers tothese very moments in time,
because when you commit to beingbetter, the impact will last
for generations to come.
I'm your host, Sarah Caminiti.
Join me to uncover practicalinsights and strategies that
(00:49):
will empower you to be thechange that you seek.
I'm so happy that you're here.
Happy Tuesday, happy EpochalGrowth Tuesday listeners, so
quick housekeeping.
Best way to show your supportis listening, watching, sharing
(01:09):
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(01:30):
description.
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Remember, not only will you beable to learn from industry
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Accept the challenge and get toDenver so I can go to Denver.
Now onto the reason that we'rehere.
Lauren Eimers is a therapist,she is a scientist and she's a
customer experience superhero.
(02:14):
She's also someone thatrecognizes how many resources we
have available to utilize, butoften we're too in the weeds or
we're too nervous to bevulnerable to take advantage of
them.
The key takeaways from thisepisode are mentorship it's
crucial in the support space,especially for women and
especially for those that arenew to the industry.
(02:36):
Lauren had a career pivot, likemany of the guests on Epochal
Growth, and mentorship is anopportunity to know how to
navigate these new spaces.
You'll also hear us discuss theimportance of focusing on
empathy and the ability torelate to others when you're
hiring for your team.
The challenges of metrics,because measuring the impact of
(02:58):
support and success in teams canbe challenging, but when you
use the data that we haveavailable, we need to look at it
holistically.
Everything is a piece to thepuzzle.
We can't be taking thisinformation at face value.
You'll hear us talk a lot aboutvulnerability and how that
relates to being successful inyour career, how it relates to
(03:19):
communicating with customers,connecting with customers and
also community with customers,connecting with customers and
also community, becausementorship, community and
vulnerability are key factors inpersonal and professional
growth.
Lauren's going to go over threedifferent types of mentorship,
one of which includes why it'snecessary to reach out to
younger leaders and individualcontributors, because technology
(03:43):
moves really fast and we are ina tech space.
We'll also discuss the power ofcuriosity when we're
communicating and why it canlead to better understanding and
resolutions and conversations,and why it's important to create
spaces for women to share theirexperience, because we need to
be fostering inclusivity and weneed to be fostering empowerment
(04:03):
.
I'm so excited for you to learnfrom Lauren and I'm so happy
that you're here.
This is Epochal Growth, episode13, with Lauren Eimers.
Lauren Eimers (04:15):
My name is Lauren Eimers, or sometimes you'll see
my full name, Lauren RoseEimers online and I have just
I'm counting up to 11 years inthe software as a service space,
customer service and success.
That's awesome.
I've been doing that, I can'tbelieve for over a decade.
Time flies when you're havingfun or putting out fires or kind
(04:35):
of both.
Yes, I mean, so much can be, somuch happens in a decade and so
much doesn't as well.
But my background is actuallyin counseling psychology and
genetic counseling.
So I have a couple master'sdegrees where I was a therapist
for a while and then I missedthat hard science and I went
back to school to become agenetic counselor and then I
(04:57):
worked in perinatal genetics fora time before making the jump
into software.
Our industry really has a lotof folks that have the most
non-traditional careertrajectories, right I think it's
because it's something that'swithin you that isn't always
really a trained skill.
Sarah Caminiti (05:15):
If you want to pursue a career in support,
there's nothing that you canreally do in terms of college or
prep and it's just part of whoyou are.
And that drive to help othersbe successful is part of who you
are and that's why I think it'ssuch a cool space to be in and
(05:35):
meet so many different kinds ofpeople, because at our core,
we're all wanting to do the samething.
We just came about it in somany different ways.
Lauren Eimers (05:43):
Yeah, I completely agree with that and
it is also so interesting.
You mentioned something that'sinternal.
I do think that empathy, thatability to relate to others,
it's something that's reallyhard to train and I always would
say this when I was.
You know, I've been on bothsides of the hiring game, both
as an applicant and a hiringmanager, and I always would look
(06:06):
first at folks' ability toempathize, their ability to put
themselves in other folks' shoes, not so much for technical
chops, because I feel like it'sso much easier to teach the
technical aspect than to try toteach someone how to empathize.
So maybe that's a little plugfor folks looking to jump into
the industry and you're worriedabout your resume or your
(06:27):
background.
If you're able to show, insteadof tell, you know if you get to
that interview and you're ableto show how you can empathize
and how you are able to connectwith others, that's worth its
weight in gold in the supportsuccess space, if you ask me.
Sarah Caminiti (06:42):
Yep, I completely agree.
It was whenever I was hiring.
Since I have such anon-traditional background,
since my LinkedIn or my resumedoesn't even come close to
painting a picture of who I amand what I can provide, I always
focus on questions of reallysimple sample scenarios that I
(07:03):
would put in all of myapplications so that I could see
how someone approached helpingsomeone in different ways, and
it wouldn't be anything likeheavy lifting for the reply.
But like how do you start thisnaturally?
How do you, how do you handlesomebody that's you know, coming
in hot and introduce yourselfinto that space, because those
(07:26):
sorts of skills, like the toneand just the natural cadence of
communication, is such animportant piece of the puzzle.
But it's such a hard thing toreally match to what you're
trying to do as the supportleader, if they don't have it
already.
Lauren Eimers (07:45):
Oh, absolutely agree with that as well.
Yeah, it's such a well, it'sthe X factor, right?
It's something that you can'tnecessarily quantify, and I
think that's also a reason whycaring professions aren't
compensated as well, becauseit's hard to have these KPIs
like well, how well did youconnect with this customer?
How well did you connect withthis customer?
How well did you connect withthe person that was so mad?
(08:06):
I mean, if they didn't, youknow, abandon your product,
great.
But how do we measure?
It's just, it's something that'sbeen so difficult historically
to measure and I think that'salso why, historically, caring
professions as a whole I meaneven as, like a mental health
counselor, we're not compensatedfor taking care of emotional
health, like a practitioner istaking care of physical health,
(08:28):
and it's again.
I think the anecdotal evidenceis so much easier to support
that.
But it's also difficult whenyou're heading to your C-suite
or your leadership team andsaying like this is why our
support team needs to be paidthis much, or our success team
needs to be paid this much, butanyway, oh man, we're getting
into the weeds.
I was here to talk aboutmentorship today.
Sarah Caminiti (08:50):
I love it.
No, Lauren, that's such animportant thing that you brought
up because it's especially inthe tech space when you're
entering companies where oftenthe founders are developers or
the founders are very technicalpeople themselves.
They're product or projectbased.
Like everything is has a startand a finish, and you are able
(09:12):
to follow them on that path,understand, have that visibility
into how they are spendingtheir time and then you're also
able to rate the result of thattime spent.
And when you're in support,it's a much more subjective
thing.
It's that's why the metrics areso gross, because you're asking
(09:35):
for someone to rate aconversation at a very emotional
, heightened state, usuallybecause there is an emotional
aspect to having to stop whatyou're doing, be vulnerable to
any degree, to ask for help andnot know when you're going to
get it back and what you'regoing to get back, and you can't
(09:56):
really score that on a one to10 or a smiley face or whatever
it is that the product is askingyou to do.
Lauren Eimers (10:04):
Yeah, it is so difficult.
And you know I like to thinkagain.
When you think of a companyholistically, you know you have
the product team and themarketing team and then the
success and support teams, orsometimes they're kind of rolled
into one.
Support and success is sodownstream from you know that
initiation of the product beingbuilt and then marketed and
(10:24):
released, and sometimes we'redealing with things that are
upthread or upstream issues tobe solved, like sometimes users
stumble across a bug that needsproduct to work on it, or
sometimes the UX just isn'treally gelling with some users,
but we're the ones receivingthat.
(10:46):
So sometimes we really areagain in that downstream flow.
We're the ones getting a lot ofthe feedback that you know it
really would have been great ifthey could talk to the product
team first.
But we're not only the voice ofthe customer in that situation,
but we're also kind of thatspace holder for all of the
feature requests, the complaints, the sticking points or just
(11:09):
where we can educate better.
And so sometimes it is alsodifficult when you know again
your leadership team is saying Iwant to see, you know how these
results.
Like, how are we preventingchurn?
It's like well, this is a wholecompany kind of thing we all
need to be involved in and we'rejust one piece of this
beautiful flow of the river forfolks to you know, stay with our
(11:29):
product and not abandon us.
But yeah, it is such avulnerable I love the word
vulnerable you using thatbecause having to reach out and
ask for help implicit in that.
I think folks could feel alittle shame, right, like no one
wants to feel dumb, like no onewants to feel like they need
help with something they shouldknow how to use.
And so, yes, I think anger is agreat facade for maybe that
(11:53):
little bit of feeling ashamed,having to reach out and ask for
help.
So I think that's why we see alot of angry folks when in
reality they just don't want tobe vulnerable.
It's much easier to put up thatshell of anger and be mad at a
faceless customer support agentwho is trying to walk them
through something, just tryingto help them get through their
(12:13):
day.
But yeah, it's such aninteresting way to view it when
you look at it through the lensof vulnerability.
Sarah Caminiti (12:20):
That's something that customer support folks
have.
We've been much more louderabout the impact of putting
ourselves in their shoes, liketruly taking ourselves and our
position within the company outof the conversation, out of the
equation.
(12:40):
And okay, I have this person.
This person was trying to dothis.
They stopped, they could nolonger continue independently.
That prevented them from givingthe report that they needed to
give at this certain time orthat prevented them from taking
their lunch, because they needto wait and see what happens,
Like we have absolutely no ideawhat is going on on the other
(13:05):
end of this.
And it's our job to create aspace where we immediately
eliminate that guilt and thatshame for needing to ask a
question, because truly it's onus to make it.
So you don't reach this pointand just let them know that
(13:26):
you've got somebody on your teamand with the other departments
having such a hand in how thingsare created and presented and
packaged.
That's why it's so important tohave support and success in at
the very beginning of all ofthose different stages, Because
(13:47):
if you want support to be ableto give you information about
how they're reducing churn, wecannot do anything to reduce
churn at the end of thefrustration journey.
We can reduce churn by saying,yes, here is this data that
we've extracted and it's tellingus that in the UI there is this
(14:11):
area that no one can find on,you know, at a first try.
And so why don't we change thatand have a conversation and be
included with questions and askto proofread things to make sure
that you know it sounds likesomething the customer would be
able to understand and we arethe source of everything for
(14:37):
what the customer is giving usback for feedback, and it's just
we need to be up in thatprocess.
Lauren Eimers (14:48):
Yeah Well, and maybe it'd be more of an
ecosystem instead of a riverLike, okay, product is totally
upstream, and then marketing,and then support or success.
But what if we're all in thesame little terrarium and all of
us are feeding into each otherin that symbiotic feedback loop?
Ooh, I like that.
We're a great little terrariumof a company where we can all
help.
Yeah Well, and I think thishonestly.
(15:11):
I think this is a great segue tofor folks who are looking to
get into the support successspace, and these are the things
that I would have never knownwhen I first entered into this.
I literally thought my wholejob was to just log in, answer
technical questions and log outand realizing that you know, the
(15:32):
ripple effects that you have insupport are just so much more.
And I think if I had had amentor, especially at the very
beginning of me entering intothe SaaS world, it would have
definitely helped with a lot ofgrowing pains.
I don't know about you, but Ithink a lot of my learning was
just trial and error, because itreally was a reactive reasoning
(15:58):
.
Like you know, I feel like youcan be on the defense or the
offense and we were makingdefensive moves, moves like
quick.
We need to bring in more peopleto just answer these emails,
like we didn't realize, so manypeople needed help.
And I do think, had I hadsomeone to help me kind of
understand the path and just theripple effects that I have in
(16:19):
support and success or I had inthat role, would have really
helped me instead of, you know,learning by jumping into the
fire myself and then gettingburned and coming back out.
Sarah Caminiti (16:31):
That's such like there's so many layers to to
what you just shared, because onyou know, on the surface level,
there's the, the, theexpectation, uh, the reality of
what your day is going to looklike.
And then there's also the layerof.
You are in the weeds, usuallyso much that you cannot breathe,
(16:55):
and so even thinking aboutlooking for community, even
thinking about voicing somethingsomewhere to someone, that's
not even just part of it.
Because, you're right, youdon't just log in and answer
technical questions, you areproblem solving, you are in
(17:15):
stressful conversations, you arehandling emotions or you're
filtering information, you'retrying to extract data, you are
doing everything and it'snonstop.
It is just.
That's the nature of support.
I mean, the folks that are hereusually love that kind of like.
You know, every day isdifferent.
Every day is a puzzle.
(17:36):
I know I do.
But the opportunity formentorship in my career I didn't
even think about it for thelongest time and I wish I think
that's one of the reasons whyfolks like you, Lauren, and
myself are working so hard tocreate opportunities for people
(17:57):
to realize that there's othersout here that are here to help.
Because, it's true, you don'tknow what you don't know until
it's too late, imposter syndromeand doubt and fear.
And being a woman making changewithin a company carries so
many things and emotions and wecould prevent ourselves from
(18:20):
feeling a lot of negative thingsand just celebrate the wins
more if we had folks that werecheering us on.
Lauren Eimers (18:26):
Oh yes, and I think for me at least, when I
had entered into this world over10 years ago, the only
mentorship that I was aware ofwas the traditional mentor,
where they're older, moreseasoned in the industry, and I
will say I was so lucky as agenetic counselor to have a
couple mentors that reallyhelped guide me and help me
(18:49):
avoid pitfalls that they had,and so I just didn't think it
existed in the support realm.
And so, and luckily for me, andthis is a huge shout out to the
support driven community I wasable to start getting that
mentorship through community,and I think community mentorship
is something that's oftenoverlooked because implicit in
(19:10):
mentorship you think there'sjust one mentor and a mentee,
but for me, the community aspectof it where folks were able to
build within support-driven, butalso, you know, there's all
those other little subcategoriesin support driven that you can
fit into and utilize.
So if you are a leader, you haveleadership channel to go into.
(19:31):
If you are a woman, you go tothe women's channel for can lean
on.
I think that's a really richand generative space for you to
get that mentorship withouthaving to meet once a week with
(19:53):
a mentor that's been in thebusiness 20 years longer than
you and you know is doingexactly what you are in the
space.
I think that being able tothink about it in a little
different way opens up so manyother doors and makes it so much
less difficult to get over thathurdle.
Because I know for me I wasn'table to find a mentor in the
(20:16):
support space until I had beenin support, I think, for five or
six years.
I don't know about you if youhad the same experience.
Sarah Caminiti (20:22):
I've never had like an actual, like legit
mentor.
Throughout my career I kept myhead down for a long time and
and helped people when I could.
But I mean, one of the things Iknow that I do need to work on
is asking for help myself.
It's only been recently thatI've really let myself be
(20:46):
vulnerable in those situationsand then learn and learn and
just open myself up to it.
But the first step is you haveto be okay with sharing a piece
of yourself that is connected topride and is connected to your
self-worth and is connected toyour career, and even if it's
(21:09):
something as simple as this ishappening.
I don't know why there's thatvulnerability, but the cool
thing the cool thing is, onceyou do it a couple of times, you
realize that you have been acrazy person for not doing
sooner.
And this is the space of allspaces to really lean in,
(21:30):
because everybody is here tohelp you.
And it's been transformativetruly to meet the people that I
have met and be connected inways that I never thought was
possible.
Lauren Eimers (21:43):
Oh, I love that.
But again that vulnerabilitypiece coming again.
This might be the golden threadthat's going to stitch this
whole episode together.
But I do think thevulnerability piece of being
able to ask for help and I think, especially as a novice, I
would never have, I never had aproblem being like, hey, I don't
know this help.
But as I started to ascend theranks in my career, again that
(22:07):
ego and that worry that Ialready should know these things
, it made it so much moredifficult to ask for help and
ask questions.
And that's where I do thinkmentorship can also be a really
safe container.
Safe container If you do havethat one person that you can go
to to work a problem, to reallybe vulnerable in that space and
understand that you know myproblem's going to stay here,
(22:29):
this isn't going to be aired tothe rest of the community.
You can create those safecontainers with a mentor and
help you work those problems.
I think again back to thecommunity aspect of it.
There are private channels inSupport Driven, where it's
basically we say, hey, this is aprivate space, so please,
anything shared here, make sureit stays here.
(22:51):
But I think also having just anindividual that you can go to
on a weekly or every other weekbasis or even monthly and say,
hey, this was one thing that Iwas really stuck on and I'd just
like to get your read on it.
Sometimes just a fresh set ofeyes and a fresh perspective can
really help deal with issues orproblems that either continue
to surface at your organizationor something that you really are
(23:12):
stuck on with your team or evenwith a teammate.
I think again that vulnerabilitypiece is so important and I
have seen and it makes me soincredibly sad to say this, but
folks with that inability to bevulnerable, it's also that
inability to self-reflect andit's been so damaging not only
(23:34):
to their career.
But you can see, you knowthey're carrying it with them
personally, like they're takingthis stuff home and it's making
it's just making life in generalmiserable.
And so I think a healthy doseof self-awareness and, honestly,
like you said, understandingthat you don't know what you
don't know, it doesn't make youa bad leader, it doesn't make
(23:56):
you a bad customer support agentIf you're just starting out or
anywhere in between, it reallyis important to understand like
you don't have to know it alland if you can rely on community
or mentorship or a combinationof the two.
It really is the way forward,Like lifting up others as well.
I think there are times wheresomeone has asked a question in
(24:18):
channels that I'm a part of inour community and I'm like, oh
my gosh, I didn't know to askthis question in this way, but
this is actually a solution toan issue.
I'm having as well.
Sarah Caminiti (24:30):
So yes, that realization of Whoa, wait, this
is, this is a normal thing.
This thing happens all the time.
Then there's like a whole groupthat wants to problem solve
this sort of stuff with me.
Oh cool, okay, let me join andshare my piece and see what, how
I can contribute and help, andthat makes you want to answer
more questions to help othersand and it's, it's such a great
(24:54):
opportunity.
You're right, Lauren, like thestereotypes, for mentorship is
somebody that has x amount ofyears ahead of you in in the
world of of the career spacethat you're in, and I don't
agree with that at all.
Tech is different.
Tech is a different space thatallows you to pivot.
It allows things to changerapidly and certain problems
(25:18):
require certain areas ofexpertise and no one is going to
be an expert at everything andyou don't want them to so like
if you are going into the Aspireprogram and you're someone that
has been a leader for years,but maybe you want to talk to
someone that has experience in alarger company because you're
(25:39):
thinking about changing out of,you know, a bootstrap space to
the larger space.
But you've been in the industryfor 20 years, why can't you be
paired up with somebody that hasbeen spending a lot of time
over there and building thatkind of a relationship?
We are all here to serve.
This is our calling.
This is where we want to spendour time and we want to share
(26:02):
that with others.
Lauren Eimers (26:04):
Oh, and you brought up, actually, the next
little line item I have on mylist of the different types of
mentorship.
I think once you get to acertain point in your career,
you need to be reaching out toyounger mentors.
You need to look for folks whoare fresh in your industry,
because I remember thinking thistoo when I was young.
There is a privilege that comeswith that and that's you really
(26:27):
have your finger on the pulseof things that are going on.
That, sadly, like, once youreach a certain age, you just
really it's not a part of yourlived experience, and so I think
it's and I don't want to beageist, I'm just saying once
you're in an industry for acertain amount of time, you need
to be reaching out to thefresher, newer voices as a
mentor as well, and I think,again, they can be symbiotic.
(26:51):
It can be a mutually beneficialrelationship and it doesn't
have to be the help for we eldermillennials here in a few years
.
I do think we're a differentgeneration.
We're kind of sandwiched inbetween the analog life and
digital life and we know how toexist in both worlds.
(27:12):
But we have a generation comingup that has been raised
completely in the digital spaceand we don't understand how it
is to exist in that way in thedigital space, and we don't
understand how it is to exist inthat way.
And I think it's going to beimperative for us to be reaching
out for younger mentors and tohelp us navigate these new ways
of being in these new ways ofliving.
(27:32):
So, yeah, I love that youbrought that up.
Did you see my notes?
Did you know what we were goingto talk about?
Sarah Caminiti (27:38):
Just feeling it's the vibe.
But, Lauren, how would yourecommend someone like start to
think about because aboutreaching out to folks that are
younger, younger leaders or evenjust younger ICs in the
industry of knowledge, of how tobetter connect with a team when
(28:03):
you're building a team and bereflective of how you're
communicating with others in amore inclusive way, and how
would you recommend someone togo about doing?
Lauren Eimers (28:15):
that.
Well, first of all, I again I'mpulling from my counseling
background you want to be sureyou're not stepping into a
blended role or conflictingroles.
So you may be a manager or havemore tenure in a company, so
you're you're not allowed toreach out to folks you work with
.
Sorry, that's weird and it'snot ethical.
(28:35):
So, it's true, automaticallycross that off your list, and I
know I don't have to say thisfor everyone, but I just want to
say it to be said like you'vegot to be really cognizant of
conflicting and blended roles,keeping things nice, clear and
delineated.
That's the way to go inbusiness, right?
We don't want anyone, yeah, andI know we're human beings and
(28:59):
sometimes it's impossible not to, but I don't think it's good to
reach out to folks thatbasically are on your team and
already look up to you and youare changing that dynamic.
I think it's better to haveclear and defined roles within
your job.
Now, again back to the communitypiece, utilizing communities
(29:22):
that you are a part of, andespecially since this is a
little bit of a newer way tothink about mentorship.
I don't know a lot.
I know I certainly wouldn'thave, in my 20s, or just
entering into the software spaceto say, hey, if anyone wants a
young mentor, hit me up.
So I do think as a more seniorleader you will have to be the
(29:44):
initiator in those.
But using community, I say,sailing this ship for 10, 20
years, I need a freshperspective and again, hopefully
(30:10):
at this point, as a moreseasoned person in this career
path, you won't feel asvulnerable by putting yourself
out there and just being curiousabout what you can learn.
I think again, you don't knowwhat you don't know and
curiosity is such a wonderfulsolve to that vulnerability,
like if you can come from aplace of curiosity instead of
(30:32):
feeling like, oh, I'm vulnerable, like I don't know all these
things, like I'm curious aboutthese things, I want to learn
about these things.
It can be a great kind of mindhack to get you to put yourself
out there, especially when youare trying to find a younger
mentor.
Sarah Caminiti (30:47):
That's such a great point with the curiosity.
That's something that I reallyrecognized and leaned into when
I started building my teams ofhow to approach conversations in
general, and it changed a lotof how I was communicating with
customers and training people tocommunicate with customers.
Being more cognizant of thatcuriosity and making that kind
(31:08):
of the root of it all is I'm notjudging whatsoever.
Everybody goes about thingstheir own way, everybody
communicates, everyone learnstheir own way, and I respect
that so much.
So I'm going to ask you veryspecific questions and my
intentions are to understandwhat happened and understand
(31:31):
where that gap was, so that nowI can try and fix it, because as
a leader, I've always made itmy mission to be the leader I
always wished that I had.
And filling those gaps andtaking ownership of their
success when you're having theseconversations allows for a lot
(31:54):
of that stress, and it's thesame thing to disappear and it's
the same thing with customersthing with customers, if you
start taking ownership for theirsituation, so that it's not
their fault that they can't findthat button or it's not their
fault that things are confusing,it's actually it's our
company's fault becausesomewhere along the line we did
not think of you and now let usthink about you and let us
(32:19):
accommodate you, and it's been areally cool way to start
approaching those sorts of talks.
Lauren Eimers (32:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Curiosity is truly thefoundation for every
relationship I have in my life,be it at work, family, otherwise
, because, if you can go in, Imean we're all human beings and
so I just want to name, likeyou're going to be carrying
internal biases aroundregardless.
And it's my life's work to tryto deprogram those.
(32:51):
But curiosity is a great way toget around that, because if you
can go into any interactionwanting to learn and being
curious about the situation, itcan really help prevent.
You know what you think youknow about the situation or what
you think the conversation isgoing to go like, or even what
(33:12):
you think the solution to theproblem is.
Sometimes, especially if you'reon the front lines answering
support tickets in the queue,that curiosity can just pay back
tenfold.
Sometimes conversations go acompletely different direction.
Sometimes conflicts can becompletely resolved if you just
are a little curious aboutwhat's happening on both sides
(33:33):
of the street.
I mean, it really is such anamazing tool just for human
interaction, not just as aleader, not just in the support
space.
But I highly highly recommendapproaching anything with a
little curiosity, especiallywhen you're feeling triggered or
on the defensive.
Being curious is a quick way todiffuse that and really help
(33:56):
equilibrate and get you backinto a place of like okay, both
feet firmly on the ground.
I need to get a better read onthe situation and I don't know
about you, but I know sometimesyou open up a ticket in the
queue and it's all caps,exclamation points, like it's
hard not to get into thedefensive mode.
(34:16):
But if you can be curious aboutlike, okay, all caps, I'm
curious about what?
Yeah, let's figure this out.
I think that that's such awonderful way to do that.
And another thing that youmentioned as well taking
ownership of the issue orownership of the problem that
you're being presented with, beit a customer that's emailing or
(34:37):
chatting in to a teammate.
That's, you know, approachingyou with an issue to a teammate.
That's, you know, approachingyou with an issue.
It's such a cheesy phrase thatI hearken back to all the time.
But I believe Ram Dass saidwe're all just walking each
other home.
Right, we're all.
If we can just walk with folkswith these things.
Sometimes that's all they needis to know that you're with them
(34:57):
, and that might even be abetter solve to them than
solving their problem.
Because sometimes you can'tsolve a customer's problem.
You're like I'm sorry, I canmake that a feature request, but
guess what?
It's not going to happen thisquarter and I promise in feature
request Thunderdome I shallfight for you, but I don't know
(35:19):
when this fix is going to happen.
So sometimes you just walkingwith that person is enough, and
I had many, many interactionswith folks I was like, oh my
gosh, this is, this is the end,like they are going to abandon
this product.
Who stuck around five yearslater, seven years later, just
knowing that they had someonewalking with them and that this
(35:42):
was a pain point and we werethere to hold space and listen
to them.
That was really all they needed.
Sarah Caminiti (35:48):
So it's just such an interesting.
Lauren Eimers (35:50):
Yeah, it's such an interesting way of
approaching things.
Sarah Caminiti (35:54):
It is the gateway to a different level of
interaction and community and,like within your company, with
your customer, the communitythat you build with your
customer.
And and it has made me realize,as I've gotten older and and
especially since I've spent alot of time QAing tickets and
(36:16):
trying to understand the datathat is in every interaction
what opportunities there are tobe a differentiator.
And so much of it is in how wehandle those hard conversations.
It's how you listen and it'show you diffuse and how you
acknowledge their feelings andmake them feel heard.
(36:39):
And you're right, mostconversations that escalate are
not going to be resolved,because policies exist, rules
and boundaries exist.
We don't know what the otherperson is going through to get
into that headspace and needthis, but we do know that as
(37:00):
humans, if I was on their sideand I was super angry about
something, I would love it ifsomeone just was like whoa, hold
up a sec, let's just take apause.
I get it.
I would be so frustrated too,but you know what?
I've taken this, I shared it, wetracked it and the next time
(37:21):
something comes up, use my namein the email to make sure that
you get to me, because I wouldlove to continue helping you on
this journey, or you know what Ican feel, how frustrated you
are, and I do not want you tocontinue your day thinking about
this.
Let me refund your last month'ssubscription, and I mean,
sometimes that's three bucks onyour last month's subscription
(37:42):
and sometimes that's three bucks.
But that gesture of oh, you'renot going to fight me on this,
like you're not going to turnthis into a huge deal, is the
way that you can connect on adeeper level and the way you can
get people, like you said, tostick around those five, 10
years later, because you createda safe space for someone to be
(38:04):
vulnerable or to ask questionsor really just to be successful.
And, uh, they know you've gotyour.
They're back and at the end ofthe day, with so many products
doing the same thing, youropportunity as a support
professional is to prove thatthey can't get this elsewhere,
(38:25):
and why wouldn't you want to do?
Lauren Eimers (38:27):
that, yeah Well, and I just think too and again,
it's so hard to get a KPI onthis, but I do think people like
supporting nice people and ifyou do have all of these
products that look very similar,do the same job, right, like
what's the what's the problemthis product is going to solve?
(38:48):
So what's going to be the thingthat keeps a person around is,
honestly, I want to support acompany that I know, where the
people are nice and they knowI'm a person too and I really do
think you know.
Back to the community piece, Ireally think that's our future,
that's how, basically, we're allgoing to save the world is
through community and throughleaning on each other and
supporting each other, becausewhen we do that, that's when
(39:11):
things move forward, that's whenthe needle moves for innovation
and for repair in a lot of ways, right, and so a company that I
know are a bunch of like, okayfolks, like I would much rather
support okay folks than a botthat gave me the same answers
over and over and over again orjust infuriated me and I had to
(39:35):
go through an AI answer tree tojust speak to a gosh darn live
agent, and I'm probably agingmyself because I know there's a
whole subset of the populationthat's like please don't let me
talk to a person, I just want tofigure this out on my own.
But I mean, that's an option,right, I do.
I think that that should exist,but I do within your proactive
(39:59):
support options, right, likethere's going to be folks that
just want to go to the help siteand figure their stuff out and
get on with their lives.
But I think that being able toconnect when someone is reaching
out is just so imperative.
And, yeah, I want to supportnice folks.
Sarah Caminiti (40:14):
Nice folks.
I want to support a companythat their actions speak louder
than their words Because, as asI'm sure you've seen, loud
people, loud companies usuallyare not doing anything that
they're saying, that they'redoing.
It's the quiet people that aremaking that change.
(40:36):
It's the ones, it's the quietcompanies that are using that
time to really connect.
And when I say loud, I don'tmean like don't say your truth
on social media in any capacity,but mean what you say, put
value in what you say andthought and intention in what
(40:57):
you say, improve what you sayand and then be loud.
But being loud for the sake ofbeing loud, I mean that's just
noise.
Lauren Eimers (41:08):
So I don't, I don't really have a mind for
that, and it's noisy out thereright now.
I don't know about you, butthere's a lot of noise.
Sarah Caminiti (41:16):
And it's.
It's discouraging because youyou know there are good places
out there and you want to liftthem up and empower them, and I
think that's one of the coolthings about community too.
That's one of the reasons whythis journey for this podcast
happened.
It's because I realized theloudness that was out there was
not about good people.
(41:37):
It was not lifting up thesepeople that I've had this
pleasure of getting to knowwithin our community.
Folks like you, Lauren, andwhat you do for the senior
leadership team, for those callsthat you put together, and the
way that you respond sothoughtfully to people when they
ask questions and support yourintentions, are so pure and good
(41:58):
and it's it comes out ineverything that you say, and so
why wouldn't?
I want to create a space forfolks like you to be celebrated
and and I hope that, uh, thatthat the loudness kind of shifts
and it's it's a good loud now.
Lauren Eimers (42:12):
oh my gosh well, first of all, you, you literally
made my springtime.
You're so kind, but I do thinkyou bring up the most amazing
point about noise, and but alsolike where our attention goes,
because our attention isbecoming a commodity, right,
(42:32):
like, and it's also anon-renewable resource, like we
only have so much bandwidth in aday, we only have so much time
in a day and it's so importantto spend that time well and
wisely.
And I and I think back to thecoaching piece I'm sorry I keep
going back to coaching, but Ithink having someone empower you
(42:53):
because I I again, I'm arecovering perfectionist, but
learning to say no to things wassomething I it took many years
in my career and understandingthat saying no allows for a
bigger and better yes, and I hadso many not even no's but just
kind of sort of maybes occupyingmy, my bandwidth and my time
(43:15):
that it didn't allow for thosehell yeses to come rushing in.
And I think that will very muchlike this podcast.
I know, right, like, okay, shipit, the episode's over, but I,
I see that too with you.
This podcast again is, I think,the genesis of you having space
to say yes to it, right, right,you didn't have this space
(43:37):
before, and so I'm so excited tosee where this goes.
And the final piece formentorship I was going to
mention is the aspirationalmentor, and I mean especially as
a woman.
In this space base I am lookingfor someone who is able to
(44:02):
balance parenthood and theircareer and these wonderful
communities they're cultivatingHeck even a hobby or two.
I think that might be a littletoo aspirational now, but
sometimes just looking for folksthat have walked the path to
know that it's even possible Imean they don't even have to
know my name, but I want to knowwho they are and I also would
love to know how they did it,because I think, with the many
facets that come with being justa person on planet earth,
(44:27):
knowing that someone has done itbefore or has gone there makes
it more attainable, at least formy brain.
I don't know if I'm you know Idon't know if I'm going.
No, that's so true.
Sarah Caminiti (44:40):
I just I agree completely.
Lauren Eimers (44:42):
It's yeah, Knowing someone's done it makes
all the difference it does and,and I think again, being able to
focus our time in a way, focusour attention in the directions
we want to go.
I think that's the key, but Ialso need to be able to see
someone who has done that right,because a lot of us who have
been in this industry longerthan others, we're now starting
(45:06):
to see a lot of the structuresthat we thought would hold not
support folks, not supportcompanies.
We've seen a lot ofbankruptcies, we've seen a lot
of layoffs, especially in thislast year, and so I am
interested to see the people andthe companies that have made
things work and how they've madeit work, and I think that that,
(45:26):
again, it's a combination ofeverything right.
It's finding people through acommunity or possibly one-on-one
mentorship, looking for thoseyounger mentors, or even getting
into maybe hiring a coach.
Sarah Caminiti (45:39):
I know that sometimes is a dirty word like
getting someone as a careercoach.
Lauren Eimers (45:44):
Well, and I also think, if you're paying for the
mentorship which is coaching, Ifeel like, again, it's like an
energetic exchange where like,okay, well, I put money into
this, so now I really have tostart taking action.
Sarah Caminiti (46:14):
We're like okay, well, I put money into this, so
now I really have to starttaking action, where, if it's a
mentor, like a volunteer basis,it's like, well, if I don't go
out on the limb or if I don'ttake, you know, a little risk on
myself, it's not everything,but once you start paying for a
service, it's like, oh well, I'mgonna, I'm gonna put my money
where my mouth is.
But anyway, no, agreecompletely.
And I think too, as a woman,it's so important to have people
around you that tell theirstory in an honest way, someone
that has lived it or hasexperienced it.
We need to see that in arealistic way.
(46:35):
So if you're a woman and youare realizing, like, why does
this feel, like it's like somuch harder than it feels for my
counterparts, then you can cometo a space that you're allowed
to say this feels hard and Idon't know why, and and the
(46:55):
others around you will willreply with yeah, it is hard.
It is hard.
You're allowed to admit thatit's hard.
You're allowed to acknowledgethat you are a woman and things
are different for you.
You're allowed to acknowledgethe stuff that you have to think
about, that men do not have tothink about whenever you enter
into a conversation.
That's not going to change, butwhat will change is now you
(47:16):
have people in your corner thatare going to remind you of your
worth and your value and yourstrengths and your skills, so
that when you do enter thosespaces, you do so confidently
and you don't let yourself doubtyourself.
That, I think, is how thataspirational mentorship is just
(47:37):
a really cool opportunity.
Lauren Eimers (47:39):
Oh, I would agree as well, and I would just add,
especially since we both arewomen in this space, I think
kind of having community thereto reflect back is also a great
way to check our privilege, likethat's something that, again,
I'm still learning and stillliving this path where, wow, I
(48:00):
am so privileged in so many waystoo.
I mean us being able to hop onremotely and have this podcast,
like the privilege, like I lovethat for us, but also like we
need to name that and it wasn'tsomething that was even back to
the you don't know what youdon't know.
Having a community to helpreflect that back to you not
only can validate a lot ofthings you're going through, but
(48:23):
also help you understand theimmense privilege and a lot of
the spaces that you occupy,which is all part of it.
Right, it's like the wholepackage.
Sarah Caminiti (48:32):
And it all ties back to customer support,
because every customer isdifferent and you have to be
able to acknowledge it, and toleadership.
You have to acknowledge thatyour team is coming from very
different places and you have tobe reminding yourself of that
at all times.
Lauren Eimers (48:47):
Yes, well, we covered it all.
I think next time we're justgoing to work on the really
heavy topics.
How about that?
Sarah Caminiti (48:56):
I like that, and I will hit record a lot earlier
and before you go, Lauren, I dolike to end all of my calls by
asking my guests to share withme what era do you think that
you're in right now, or what erado you see yourself moving into
, and I would love to know yourera.
Lauren Eimers (49:14):
Oh well, thank you for this question, when I I
know I had a little preview ofit and I got to thinking I I'm
embodying it now, but I'm stillmoving into it, which is I I'm
growing, and I think I've alwaysbeen growing, always learning.
But what really excites me aboutthe phase that I'm in and
moving into me, about the phasethat I'm in and moving into, is
(49:40):
again and I mentioned thisearlier is that I'm in my my yes
era, where I've said no to thethings that no longer it's not
serving me, but things that I'mnot that don't light me up that
I'm not passionate about, and ithas already.
It's just magical.
This past year has been a lotof hard no's for me and hard
being like I've drawn the linein the sand, but also it was
(50:01):
really difficult for me to sayno For you, but I've said no to
the things that really were nolonger serving me, and it's just
been magical how so many thingshave presented themselves to me
that I've been able to say yes,absolutely to.
So that's, I'm in my yes era.
Sarah Caminiti (50:22):
I love this era.
I cannot wait to see the thingsthat you say yes to and the
opportunities that presentthemselves to you, because you
definitely deserve it and folksare lucky to have you around, so
I'm just really excited for you.
Lauren Eimers (50:35):
Well, thank you so much.
This has been such a lovely wayto have you around, so I'm just
really excited for you.
Well, thank you so much.
This has been such a lovely wayto spend my time.
Sarah Caminiti (50:43):
Listeners, please go out and find yourself
a mentor.
I wish so much that when I wasstarting out in the SaaS
industry, when I was startingout in my leadership journey,
that I understood what I had infront of me and that was the
opportunities for mentorshipwithin this community.
Let me tell you, these past sixmonths, I have met so many
(51:05):
wonderful people who are eagerto help others be successful,
and if we don't take advantageof this, then we're not allowing
ourselves to really reach ourfull potential.
We need folks like you,listeners, to join this
community so we can learn fromyou and we can share what we've
learned along the way.
I am so happy that we got tolearn from Lauren today.
(51:28):
Thank you so much, listeners,for spending this time with us
and for being open to change.
We can't wait around to seechange happen us and for being
open to change.
We can't wait around to seechange happen when you feel it
in yourself that a better wayexists.
You owe it to yourself andthose around you to try, because
great things happen when you do.
Thank you so much to Buzzsprout.
Thank you so much to mycommunity, elevate CX.
(51:48):
If you have not purchased yourticket for Denver, that's
September 26th and 27th for theElevate CX conference.
Please do so.
You'll see the link at the verytop of the episode description.
Also, if you're over in the UKor Europe, make sure that you
are purchasing your tickets forthe Elevate CX event in London
(52:09):
on November 8th.
I will 100% be there.
No challenge necessary that oneis going to sell out.
It's a one-day event.
Hurry up and get your tickets.
Listeners, remember that smallthings ignite change and you're
capable of so much more than yourealize.
Thank you again for spendingtime with me and thank you so
much to Lauren Eimers forsharing everything that you have
(52:30):
learned and for pushing us togo out there and be mentors and
find a mentor, because we willbe better for it.
This is Sarah Caminiti.
You're listening to EpochalGrowth.
I'm so happy that you're hereand I will see you again on
Tuesday when we release our nextepisode.
How many times have you thought there has to be
a better way?
Welcome to Epochal Growth, apodcast where we invite industry
leaders and change makers whothought that very thing and
realized that, yeah, a betterway to lead or to grow or to
build does exist.
And once they trustedthemselves enough to discover
(00:24):
what's possible, they createdthe foundation for a new era
that's revolutionizing thelandscape of success.
The word epochal refers tothese very moments in time,
because when you commit to beingbetter, the impact will last
for generations to come.
I'm your host, Sarah Caminiti.
Join me to uncover practicalinsights and strategies that
(00:49):
will empower you to be thechange that you seek.
I'm so happy that you're here.
Happy Tuesday, happy EpochalGrowth Tuesday listeners, so
quick housekeeping.
Best way to show your supportis listening, watching, sharing
(01:09):
and reviewing.
I'm loving the analytics I'mextracting from Buzzsprout,
because now I can see how manywonderful people are learning
with me from the guests thatgift me with their time.
But don't miss any contentcoming your way.
You need to follow, you need tosubscribe, rate the podcast and
send me texts.
You can do so by clicking thelink that's in the episode
(01:30):
description.
I want to hear from you Also.
Elevate CX in Denver.
The challenge is still here foryou to accept.
Don't make me have to buy alast-minute flight.
Give me hope for a deal bybuying your tickets for yourself
and your teams now.
Remember, not only will you beable to learn from industry
giants like Andrew Rios, MattDale and Sarah Hatter, you'll
(01:54):
also be able to participate in alive taping of this very
podcast and bear witness to myfirst ever conference talk.
Accept the challenge and get toDenver so I can go to Denver.
Now onto the reason that we'rehere.
Lauren Eimers is a therapist,she is a scientist and she's a
customer experience superhero.
(02:14):
She's also someone thatrecognizes how many resources we
have available to utilize, butoften we're too in the weeds or
we're too nervous to bevulnerable to take advantage of
them.
The key takeaways from thisepisode are mentorship it's
crucial in the support space,especially for women and
especially for those that arenew to the industry.
(02:36):
Lauren had a career pivot, likemany of the guests on Epochal
Growth, and mentorship is anopportunity to know how to
navigate these new spaces.
You'll also hear us discuss theimportance of focusing on
empathy and the ability torelate to others when you're
hiring for your team.
The challenges of metrics,because measuring the impact of
(02:58):
support and success in teams canbe challenging, but when you
use the data that we haveavailable, we need to look at it
holistically.
Everything is a piece to thepuzzle.
We can't be taking thisinformation at face value.
You'll hear us talk a lot aboutvulnerability and how that
relates to being successful inyour career, how it relates to
(03:19):
communicating with customers,connecting with customers and
also community with customers,connecting with customers and
also community, becausementorship, community and
vulnerability are key factors inpersonal and professional
growth.
Lauren's going to go over threedifferent types of mentorship,
one of which includes why it'snecessary to reach out to
younger leaders and individualcontributors, because technology
(03:43):
moves really fast and we are ina tech space.
We'll also discuss the power ofcuriosity when we're
communicating and why it canlead to better understanding and
resolutions and conversations,and why it's important to create
spaces for women to share theirexperience, because we need to
be fostering inclusivity and weneed to be fostering empowerment
(04:03):
.
I'm so excited for you to learnfrom Lauren and I'm so happy
that you're here.
This is Epochal Growth, episode13, with Lauren Eimers.
Lauren Eimers (04:15):
My name is Lauren Eimers, or sometimes you'll see
my full name, Lauren RoseEimers online and I have just
I'm counting up to 11 years inthe software as a service space,
customer service and success.
That's awesome.
I've been doing that, I can'tbelieve for over a decade.
Time flies when you're havingfun or putting out fires or kind
(04:35):
of both.
Yes, I mean, so much can be, somuch happens in a decade and so
much doesn't as well.
But my background is actuallyin counseling psychology and
genetic counseling.
So I have a couple master'sdegrees where I was a therapist
for a while and then I missedthat hard science and I went
back to school to become agenetic counselor and then I
(04:57):
worked in perinatal genetics fora time before making the jump
into software.
Our industry really has a lotof folks that have the most
non-traditional careertrajectories, right I think it's
because it's something that'swithin you that isn't always
really a trained skill.
Sarah Caminiti (05:15):
If you want to pursue a career in support,
there's nothing that you canreally do in terms of college or
prep and it's just part of whoyou are.
And that drive to help othersbe successful is part of who you
are and that's why I think it'ssuch a cool space to be in and
(05:35):
meet so many different kinds ofpeople, because at our core,
we're all wanting to do the samething.
We just came about it in somany different ways.
Lauren Eimers (05:43):
Yeah, I completely agree with that and
it is also so interesting.
You mentioned something that'sinternal.
I do think that empathy, thatability to relate to others,
it's something that's reallyhard to train and I always would
say this when I was.
You know, I've been on bothsides of the hiring game, both
as an applicant and a hiringmanager, and I always would look
(06:06):
first at folks' ability toempathize, their ability to put
themselves in other folks' shoes, not so much for technical
chops, because I feel like it'sso much easier to teach the
technical aspect than to try toteach someone how to empathize.
So maybe that's a little plugfor folks looking to jump into
the industry and you're worriedabout your resume or your
(06:27):
background.
If you're able to show, insteadof tell, you know if you get to
that interview and you're ableto show how you can empathize
and how you are able to connectwith others, that's worth its
weight in gold in the supportsuccess space, if you ask me.
Sarah Caminiti (06:42):
Yep, I completely agree.
It was whenever I was hiring.
Since I have such anon-traditional background,
since my LinkedIn or my resumedoesn't even come close to
painting a picture of who I amand what I can provide, I always
focus on questions of reallysimple sample scenarios that I
(07:03):
would put in all of myapplications so that I could see
how someone approached helpingsomeone in different ways, and
it wouldn't be anything likeheavy lifting for the reply.
But like how do you start thisnaturally?
How do you, how do you handlesomebody that's you know, coming
in hot and introduce yourselfinto that space, because those
(07:26):
sorts of skills, like the toneand just the natural cadence of
communication, is such animportant piece of the puzzle.
But it's such a hard thing toreally match to what you're
trying to do as the supportleader, if they don't have it
already.
Lauren Eimers (07:45):
Oh, absolutely agree with that as well.
Yeah, it's such a well, it'sthe X factor, right?
It's something that you can'tnecessarily quantify, and I
think that's also a reason whycaring professions aren't
compensated as well, becauseit's hard to have these KPIs
like well, how well did youconnect with this customer?
How well did you connect withthis customer?
How well did you connect withthe person that was so mad?
(08:06):
I mean, if they didn't, youknow, abandon your product,
great.
But how do we measure?
It's just, it's something that'sbeen so difficult historically
to measure and I think that'salso why, historically, caring
professions as a whole I meaneven as, like a mental health
counselor, we're not compensatedfor taking care of emotional
health, like a practitioner istaking care of physical health,
(08:28):
and it's again.
I think the anecdotal evidenceis so much easier to support
that.
But it's also difficult whenyou're heading to your C-suite
or your leadership team andsaying like this is why our
support team needs to be paidthis much, or our success team
needs to be paid this much, butanyway, oh man, we're getting
into the weeds.
I was here to talk aboutmentorship today.
Sarah Caminiti (08:50):
I love it.
No, Lauren, that's such animportant thing that you brought
up because it's especially inthe tech space when you're
entering companies where oftenthe founders are developers or
the founders are very technicalpeople themselves.
They're product or projectbased.
Like everything is has a startand a finish, and you are able
(09:12):
to follow them on that path,understand, have that visibility
into how they are spendingtheir time and then you're also
able to rate the result of thattime spent.
And when you're in support,it's a much more subjective
thing.
It's that's why the metrics areso gross, because you're asking
(09:35):
for someone to rate aconversation at a very emotional
, heightened state, usuallybecause there is an emotional
aspect to having to stop whatyou're doing, be vulnerable to
any degree, to ask for help andnot know when you're going to
get it back and what you'regoing to get back, and you can't
(09:56):
really score that on a one to10 or a smiley face or whatever
it is that the product is askingyou to do.
Lauren Eimers (10:04):
Yeah, it is so difficult.
And you know I like to thinkagain.
When you think of a companyholistically, you know you have
the product team and themarketing team and then the
success and support teams, orsometimes they're kind of rolled
into one.
Support and success is sodownstream from you know that
initiation of the product beingbuilt and then marketed and
(10:24):
released, and sometimes we'redealing with things that are
upthread or upstream issues tobe solved, like sometimes users
stumble across a bug that needsproduct to work on it, or
sometimes the UX just isn'treally gelling with some users,
but we're the ones receivingthat.
(10:46):
So sometimes we really areagain in that downstream flow.
We're the ones getting a lot ofthe feedback that you know it
really would have been great ifthey could talk to the product
team first.
But we're not only the voice ofthe customer in that situation,
but we're also kind of thatspace holder for all of the
feature requests, the complaints, the sticking points or just
(11:09):
where we can educate better.
And so sometimes it is alsodifficult when you know again
your leadership team is saying Iwant to see, you know how these
results.
Like, how are we preventingchurn?
It's like well, this is a wholecompany kind of thing we all
need to be involved in and we'rejust one piece of this
beautiful flow of the river forfolks to you know, stay with our
(11:29):
product and not abandon us.
But yeah, it is such avulnerable I love the word
vulnerable you using thatbecause having to reach out and
ask for help implicit in that.
I think folks could feel alittle shame, right, like no one
wants to feel dumb, like no onewants to feel like they need
help with something they shouldknow how to use.
And so, yes, I think anger is agreat facade for maybe that
(11:53):
little bit of feeling ashamed,having to reach out and ask for
help.
So I think that's why we see alot of angry folks when in
reality they just don't want tobe vulnerable.
It's much easier to put up thatshell of anger and be mad at a
faceless customer support agentwho is trying to walk them
through something, just tryingto help them get through their
(12:13):
day.
But yeah, it's such aninteresting way to view it when
you look at it through the lensof vulnerability.
Sarah Caminiti (12:20):
That's something that customer support folks
have.
We've been much more louderabout the impact of putting
ourselves in their shoes, liketruly taking ourselves and our
position within the company outof the conversation, out of the
equation.
(12:40):
And okay, I have this person.
This person was trying to dothis.
They stopped, they could nolonger continue independently.
That prevented them from givingthe report that they needed to
give at this certain time orthat prevented them from taking
their lunch, because they needto wait and see what happens,
Like we have absolutely no ideawhat is going on on the other
(13:05):
end of this.
And it's our job to create aspace where we immediately
eliminate that guilt and thatshame for needing to ask a
question, because truly it's onus to make it.
So you don't reach this pointand just let them know that
(13:26):
you've got somebody on your teamand with the other departments
having such a hand in how thingsare created and presented and
packaged.
That's why it's so important tohave support and success in at
the very beginning of all ofthose different stages, Because
(13:47):
if you want support to be ableto give you information about
how they're reducing churn, wecannot do anything to reduce
churn at the end of thefrustration journey.
We can reduce churn by saying,yes, here is this data that
we've extracted and it's tellingus that in the UI there is this
(14:11):
area that no one can find on,you know, at a first try.
And so why don't we change thatand have a conversation and be
included with questions and askto proofread things to make sure
that you know it sounds likesomething the customer would be
able to understand and we arethe source of everything for
(14:37):
what the customer is giving usback for feedback, and it's just
we need to be up in thatprocess.
Lauren Eimers (14:48):
Yeah Well, and maybe it'd be more of an
ecosystem instead of a riverLike, okay, product is totally
upstream, and then marketing,and then support or success.
But what if we're all in thesame little terrarium and all of
us are feeding into each otherin that symbiotic feedback loop?
Ooh, I like that.
We're a great little terrariumof a company where we can all
help.
Yeah Well, and I think thishonestly.
(15:11):
I think this is a great segue tofor folks who are looking to
get into the support successspace, and these are the things
that I would have never knownwhen I first entered into this.
I literally thought my wholejob was to just log in, answer
technical questions and log outand realizing that you know, the
(15:32):
ripple effects that you have insupport are just so much more.
And I think if I had had amentor, especially at the very
beginning of me entering intothe SaaS world, it would have
definitely helped with a lot ofgrowing pains.
I don't know about you, but Ithink a lot of my learning was
just trial and error, because itreally was a reactive reasoning
(15:58):
.
Like you know, I feel like youcan be on the defense or the
offense and we were makingdefensive moves, moves like
quick.
We need to bring in more peopleto just answer these emails,
like we didn't realize, so manypeople needed help.
And I do think, had I hadsomeone to help me kind of
understand the path and just theripple effects that I have in
(16:19):
support and success or I had inthat role, would have really
helped me instead of, you know,learning by jumping into the
fire myself and then gettingburned and coming back out.
Sarah Caminiti (16:31):
That's such like there's so many layers to to
what you just shared, because onyou know, on the surface level,
there's the, the, theexpectation, uh, the reality of
what your day is going to looklike.
And then there's also the layerof.
You are in the weeds, usuallyso much that you cannot breathe,
(16:55):
and so even thinking aboutlooking for community, even
thinking about voicing somethingsomewhere to someone, that's
not even just part of it.
Because, you're right, youdon't just log in and answer
technical questions, you areproblem solving, you are in
(17:15):
stressful conversations, you arehandling emotions or you're
filtering information, you'retrying to extract data, you are
doing everything and it'snonstop.
It is just.
That's the nature of support.
I mean, the folks that are hereusually love that kind of like.
You know, every day isdifferent.
Every day is a puzzle.
(17:36):
I know I do.
But the opportunity formentorship in my career I didn't
even think about it for thelongest time and I wish I think
that's one of the reasons whyfolks like you, Lauren, and
myself are working so hard tocreate opportunities for people
(17:57):
to realize that there's othersout here that are here to help.
Because, it's true, you don'tknow what you don't know until
it's too late, imposter syndromeand doubt and fear.
And being a woman making changewithin a company carries so
many things and emotions and wecould prevent ourselves from
(18:20):
feeling a lot of negative thingsand just celebrate the wins
more if we had folks that werecheering us on.
Lauren Eimers (18:26):
Oh yes, and I think for me at least, when I
had entered into this world over10 years ago, the only
mentorship that I was aware ofwas the traditional mentor,
where they're older, moreseasoned in the industry, and I
will say I was so lucky as agenetic counselor to have a
couple mentors that reallyhelped guide me and help me
(18:49):
avoid pitfalls that they had,and so I just didn't think it
existed in the support realm.
And so, and luckily for me, andthis is a huge shout out to the
support driven community I wasable to start getting that
mentorship through community,and I think community mentorship
is something that's oftenoverlooked because implicit in
(19:10):
mentorship you think there'sjust one mentor and a mentee,
but for me, the community aspectof it where folks were able to
build within support-driven, butalso, you know, there's all
those other little subcategoriesin support driven that you can
fit into and utilize.
So if you are a leader, you haveleadership channel to go into.
(19:31):
If you are a woman, you go tothe women's channel for can lean
on.
I think that's a really richand generative space for you to
get that mentorship withouthaving to meet once a week with
(19:53):
a mentor that's been in thebusiness 20 years longer than
you and you know is doingexactly what you are in the
space.
I think that being able tothink about it in a little
different way opens up so manyother doors and makes it so much
less difficult to get over thathurdle.
Because I know for me I wasn'table to find a mentor in the
(20:16):
support space until I had beenin support, I think, for five or
six years.
I don't know about you if youhad the same experience.
Sarah Caminiti (20:22):
I've never had like an actual, like legit
mentor.
Throughout my career I kept myhead down for a long time and
and helped people when I could.
But I mean, one of the things Iknow that I do need to work on
is asking for help myself.
It's only been recently thatI've really let myself be
(20:46):
vulnerable in those situationsand then learn and learn and
just open myself up to it.
But the first step is you haveto be okay with sharing a piece
of yourself that is connected topride and is connected to your
self-worth and is connected toyour career, and even if it's
(21:09):
something as simple as this ishappening.
I don't know why there's thatvulnerability, but the cool
thing the cool thing is, onceyou do it a couple of times, you
realize that you have been acrazy person for not doing
sooner.
And this is the space of allspaces to really lean in,
(21:30):
because everybody is here tohelp you.
And it's been transformativetruly to meet the people that I
have met and be connected inways that I never thought was
possible.
Lauren Eimers (21:43):
Oh, I love that.
But again that vulnerabilitypiece coming again.
This might be the golden threadthat's going to stitch this
whole episode together.
But I do think thevulnerability piece of being
able to ask for help and I think, especially as a novice, I
would never have, I never had aproblem being like, hey, I don't
know this help.
But as I started to ascend theranks in my career, again that
(22:07):
ego and that worry that Ialready should know these things
, it made it so much moredifficult to ask for help and
ask questions.
And that's where I do thinkmentorship can also be a really
safe container.
Safe container If you do havethat one person that you can go
to to work a problem, to reallybe vulnerable in that space and
understand that you know myproblem's going to stay here,
(22:29):
this isn't going to be aired tothe rest of the community.
You can create those safecontainers with a mentor and
help you work those problems.
I think again back to thecommunity aspect of it.
There are private channels inSupport Driven, where it's
basically we say, hey, this is aprivate space, so please,
anything shared here, make sureit stays here.
(22:51):
But I think also having just anindividual that you can go to
on a weekly or every other weekbasis or even monthly and say,
hey, this was one thing that Iwas really stuck on and I'd just
like to get your read on it.
Sometimes just a fresh set ofeyes and a fresh perspective can
really help deal with issues orproblems that either continue
to surface at your organizationor something that you really are
(23:12):
stuck on with your team or evenwith a teammate.
I think again that vulnerabilitypiece is so important and I
have seen and it makes me soincredibly sad to say this, but
folks with that inability to bevulnerable, it's also that
inability to self-reflect andit's been so damaging not only
(23:34):
to their career.
But you can see, you knowthey're carrying it with them
personally, like they're takingthis stuff home and it's making
it's just making life in generalmiserable.
And so I think a healthy doseof self-awareness and, honestly,
like you said, understandingthat you don't know what you
don't know, it doesn't make youa bad leader, it doesn't make
(23:56):
you a bad customer support agentIf you're just starting out or
anywhere in between, it reallyis important to understand like
you don't have to know it alland if you can rely on community
or mentorship or a combinationof the two.
It really is the way forward,Like lifting up others as well.
I think there are times wheresomeone has asked a question in
(24:18):
channels that I'm a part of inour community and I'm like, oh
my gosh, I didn't know to askthis question in this way, but
this is actually a solution toan issue.
I'm having as well.
Sarah Caminiti (24:30):
So yes, that realization of Whoa, wait, this
is, this is a normal thing.
This thing happens all the time.
Then there's like a whole groupthat wants to problem solve
this sort of stuff with me.
Oh cool, okay, let me join andshare my piece and see what, how
I can contribute and help, andthat makes you want to answer
more questions to help othersand and it's, it's such a great
(24:54):
opportunity.
You're right, Lauren, like thestereotypes, for mentorship is
somebody that has x amount ofyears ahead of you in in the
world of of the career spacethat you're in, and I don't
agree with that at all.
Tech is different.
Tech is a different space thatallows you to pivot.
It allows things to changerapidly and certain problems
(25:18):
require certain areas ofexpertise and no one is going to
be an expert at everything andyou don't want them to so like
if you are going into the Aspireprogram and you're someone that
has been a leader for years,but maybe you want to talk to
someone that has experience in alarger company because you're
(25:39):
thinking about changing out of,you know, a bootstrap space to
the larger space.
But you've been in the industryfor 20 years, why can't you be
paired up with somebody that hasbeen spending a lot of time
over there and building thatkind of a relationship?
We are all here to serve.
This is our calling.
This is where we want to spendour time and we want to share
(26:02):
that with others.
Lauren Eimers (26:04):
Oh, and you brought up, actually, the next
little line item I have on mylist of the different types of
mentorship.
I think once you get to acertain point in your career,
you need to be reaching out toyounger mentors.
You need to look for folks whoare fresh in your industry,
because I remember thinking thistoo when I was young.
There is a privilege that comeswith that and that's you really
(26:27):
have your finger on the pulseof things that are going on.
That, sadly, like, once youreach a certain age, you just
really it's not a part of yourlived experience, and so I think
it's and I don't want to beageist, I'm just saying once
you're in an industry for acertain amount of time, you need
to be reaching out to thefresher, newer voices as a
mentor as well, and I think,again, they can be symbiotic.
(26:51):
It can be a mutually beneficialrelationship and it doesn't
have to be the help for we eldermillennials here in a few years
.
I do think we're a differentgeneration.
We're kind of sandwiched inbetween the analog life and
digital life and we know how toexist in both worlds.
(27:12):
But we have a generation comingup that has been raised
completely in the digital spaceand we don't understand how it
is to exist in that way in thedigital space, and we don't
understand how it is to exist inthat way.
And I think it's going to beimperative for us to be reaching
out for younger mentors and tohelp us navigate these new ways
of being in these new ways ofliving.
(27:32):
So, yeah, I love that youbrought that up.
Did you see my notes?
Did you know what we were goingto talk about?
Sarah Caminiti (27:38):
Just feeling it's the vibe.
But, Lauren, how would yourecommend someone like start to
think about because aboutreaching out to folks that are
younger, younger leaders or evenjust younger ICs in the
industry of knowledge, of how tobetter connect with a team when
(28:03):
you're building a team and bereflective of how you're
communicating with others in amore inclusive way, and how
would you recommend someone togo about doing?
Lauren Eimers (28:15):
that.
Well, first of all, I again I'mpulling from my counseling
background you want to be sureyou're not stepping into a
blended role or conflictingroles.
So you may be a manager or havemore tenure in a company, so
you're you're not allowed toreach out to folks you work with
.
Sorry, that's weird and it'snot ethical.
(28:35):
So, it's true, automaticallycross that off your list, and I
know I don't have to say thisfor everyone, but I just want to
say it to be said like you'vegot to be really cognizant of
conflicting and blended roles,keeping things nice, clear and
delineated.
That's the way to go inbusiness, right?
We don't want anyone, yeah, andI know we're human beings and
(28:59):
sometimes it's impossible not to, but I don't think it's good to
reach out to folks thatbasically are on your team and
already look up to you and youare changing that dynamic.
I think it's better to haveclear and defined roles within
your job.
Now, again back to the communitypiece, utilizing communities
(29:22):
that you are a part of, andespecially since this is a
little bit of a newer way tothink about mentorship.
I don't know a lot.
I know I certainly wouldn'thave, in my 20s, or just
entering into the software spaceto say, hey, if anyone wants a
young mentor, hit me up.
So I do think as a more seniorleader you will have to be the
(29:44):
initiator in those.
But using community, I say,sailing this ship for 10, 20
years, I need a freshperspective and again, hopefully
(30:10):
at this point, as a moreseasoned person in this career
path, you won't feel asvulnerable by putting yourself
out there and just being curiousabout what you can learn.
I think again, you don't knowwhat you don't know and
curiosity is such a wonderfulsolve to that vulnerability,
like if you can come from aplace of curiosity instead of
(30:32):
feeling like, oh, I'm vulnerable, like I don't know all these
things, like I'm curious aboutthese things, I want to learn
about these things.
It can be a great kind of mindhack to get you to put yourself
out there, especially when youare trying to find a younger
mentor.
Sarah Caminiti (30:47):
That's such a great point with the curiosity.
That's something that I reallyrecognized and leaned into when
I started building my teams ofhow to approach conversations in
general, and it changed a lotof how I was communicating with
customers and training people tocommunicate with customers.
Being more cognizant of thatcuriosity and making that kind
(31:08):
of the root of it all is I'm notjudging whatsoever.
Everybody goes about thingstheir own way, everybody
communicates, everyone learnstheir own way, and I respect
that so much.
So I'm going to ask you veryspecific questions and my
intentions are to understandwhat happened and understand
(31:31):
where that gap was, so that nowI can try and fix it, because as
a leader, I've always made itmy mission to be the leader I
always wished that I had.
And filling those gaps andtaking ownership of their
success when you're having theseconversations allows for a lot
(31:54):
of that stress, and it's thesame thing to disappear and it's
the same thing with customersthing with customers, if you
start taking ownership for theirsituation, so that it's not
their fault that they can't findthat button or it's not their
fault that things are confusing,it's actually it's our
company's fault becausesomewhere along the line we did
not think of you and now let usthink about you and let us
(32:19):
accommodate you, and it's been areally cool way to start
approaching those sorts of talks.
Lauren Eimers (32:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Curiosity is truly thefoundation for every
relationship I have in my life,be it at work, family, otherwise
, because, if you can go in, Imean we're all human beings and
so I just want to name, likeyou're going to be carrying
internal biases aroundregardless.
And it's my life's work to tryto deprogram those.
(32:51):
But curiosity is a great way toget around that, because if you
can go into any interactionwanting to learn and being
curious about the situation, itcan really help prevent.
You know what you think youknow about the situation or what
you think the conversation isgoing to go like, or even what
(33:12):
you think the solution to theproblem is.
Sometimes, especially if you'reon the front lines answering
support tickets in the queue,that curiosity can just pay back
tenfold.
Sometimes conversations go acompletely different direction.
Sometimes conflicts can becompletely resolved if you just
are a little curious aboutwhat's happening on both sides
(33:33):
of the street.
I mean, it really is such anamazing tool just for human
interaction, not just as aleader, not just in the support
space.
But I highly highly recommendapproaching anything with a
little curiosity, especiallywhen you're feeling triggered or
on the defensive.
Being curious is a quick way todiffuse that and really help
(33:56):
equilibrate and get you backinto a place of like okay, both
feet firmly on the ground.
I need to get a better read onthe situation and I don't know
about you, but I know sometimesyou open up a ticket in the
queue and it's all caps,exclamation points, like it's
hard not to get into thedefensive mode.
(34:16):
But if you can be curious aboutlike, okay, all caps, I'm
curious about what?
Yeah, let's figure this out.
I think that that's such awonderful way to do that.
And another thing that youmentioned as well taking
ownership of the issue orownership of the problem that
you're being presented with, beit a customer that's emailing or
(34:37):
chatting in to a teammate.
That's, you know, approachingyou with an issue to a teammate.
That's, you know, approachingyou with an issue.
It's such a cheesy phrase thatI hearken back to all the time.
But I believe Ram Dass saidwe're all just walking each
other home.
Right, we're all.
If we can just walk with folkswith these things.
Sometimes that's all they needis to know that you're with them
(34:57):
, and that might even be abetter solve to them than
solving their problem.
Because sometimes you can'tsolve a customer's problem.
You're like I'm sorry, I canmake that a feature request, but
guess what?
It's not going to happen thisquarter and I promise in feature
request Thunderdome I shallfight for you, but I don't know
(35:19):
when this fix is going to happen.
So sometimes you just walkingwith that person is enough, and
I had many, many interactionswith folks I was like, oh my
gosh, this is, this is the end,like they are going to abandon
this product.
Who stuck around five yearslater, seven years later, just
knowing that they had someonewalking with them and that this
(35:42):
was a pain point and we werethere to hold space and listen
to them.
That was really all they needed.
Sarah Caminiti (35:48):
So it's just such an interesting.
Lauren Eimers (35:50):
Yeah, it's such an interesting way of
approaching things.
Sarah Caminiti (35:54):
It is the gateway to a different level of
interaction and community and,like within your company, with
your customer, the communitythat you build with your
customer.
And and it has made me realize,as I've gotten older and and
especially since I've spent alot of time QAing tickets and
(36:16):
trying to understand the datathat is in every interaction
what opportunities there are tobe a differentiator.
And so much of it is in how wehandle those hard conversations.
It's how you listen and it'show you diffuse and how you
acknowledge their feelings andmake them feel heard.
(36:39):
And you're right, mostconversations that escalate are
not going to be resolved,because policies exist, rules
and boundaries exist.
We don't know what the otherperson is going through to get
into that headspace and needthis, but we do know that as
(37:00):
humans, if I was on their sideand I was super angry about
something, I would love it ifsomeone just was like whoa, hold
up a sec, let's just take apause.
I get it.
I would be so frustrated too,but you know what?
I've taken this, I shared it, wetracked it and the next time
(37:21):
something comes up, use my namein the email to make sure that
you get to me, because I wouldlove to continue helping you on
this journey, or you know what Ican feel, how frustrated you
are, and I do not want you tocontinue your day thinking about
this.
Let me refund your last month'ssubscription, and I mean,
sometimes that's three bucks onyour last month's subscription
(37:42):
and sometimes that's three bucks.
But that gesture of oh, you'renot going to fight me on this,
like you're not going to turnthis into a huge deal, is the
way that you can connect on adeeper level and the way you can
get people, like you said, tostick around those five, 10
years later, because you createda safe space for someone to be
(38:04):
vulnerable or to ask questionsor really just to be successful.
And, uh, they know you've gotyour.
They're back and at the end ofthe day, with so many products
doing the same thing, youropportunity as a support
professional is to prove thatthey can't get this elsewhere,
(38:25):
and why wouldn't you want to do?
Lauren Eimers (38:27):
that, yeah Well, and I just think too and again,
it's so hard to get a KPI onthis, but I do think people like
supporting nice people and ifyou do have all of these
products that look very similar,do the same job, right, like
what's the what's the problemthis product is going to solve?
(38:48):
So what's going to be the thingthat keeps a person around is,
honestly, I want to support acompany that I know, where the
people are nice and they knowI'm a person too and I really do
think you know.
Back to the community piece, Ireally think that's our future,
that's how, basically, we're allgoing to save the world is
through community and throughleaning on each other and
supporting each other, becausewhen we do that, that's when
(39:11):
things move forward, that's whenthe needle moves for innovation
and for repair in a lot of ways, right, and so a company that I
know are a bunch of like, okayfolks, like I would much rather
support okay folks than a botthat gave me the same answers
over and over and over again orjust infuriated me and I had to
(39:35):
go through an AI answer tree tojust speak to a gosh darn live
agent, and I'm probably agingmyself because I know there's a
whole subset of the populationthat's like please don't let me
talk to a person, I just want tofigure this out on my own.
But I mean, that's an option,right, I do.
I think that that should exist,but I do within your proactive
(39:59):
support options, right, likethere's going to be folks that
just want to go to the help siteand figure their stuff out and
get on with their lives.
But I think that being able toconnect when someone is reaching
out is just so imperative.
And, yeah, I want to supportnice folks.
Sarah Caminiti (40:14):
Nice folks.
I want to support a companythat their actions speak louder
than their words Because, as asI'm sure you've seen, loud
people, loud companies usuallyare not doing anything that
they're saying, that they'redoing.
It's the quiet people that aremaking that change.
(40:36):
It's the ones, it's the quietcompanies that are using that
time to really connect.
And when I say loud, I don'tmean like don't say your truth
on social media in any capacity,but mean what you say, put
value in what you say andthought and intention in what
(40:57):
you say, improve what you sayand and then be loud.
But being loud for the sake ofbeing loud, I mean that's just
noise.
Lauren Eimers (41:08):
So I don't, I don't really have a mind for
that, and it's noisy out thereright now.
I don't know about you, butthere's a lot of noise.
Sarah Caminiti (41:16):
And it's.
It's discouraging because youyou know there are good places
out there and you want to liftthem up and empower them, and I
think that's one of the coolthings about community too.
That's one of the reasons whythis journey for this podcast
happened.
It's because I realized theloudness that was out there was
not about good people.
(41:37):
It was not lifting up thesepeople that I've had this
pleasure of getting to knowwithin our community.
Folks like you, Lauren, andwhat you do for the senior
leadership team, for those callsthat you put together, and the
way that you respond sothoughtfully to people when they
ask questions and support yourintentions, are so pure and good
(41:58):
and it's it comes out ineverything that you say, and so
why wouldn't?
I want to create a space forfolks like you to be celebrated
and and I hope that, uh, thatthat the loudness kind of shifts
and it's it's a good loud now.
Lauren Eimers (42:12):
oh my gosh well, first of all, you, you literally
made my springtime.
You're so kind, but I do thinkyou bring up the most amazing
point about noise, and but alsolike where our attention goes,
because our attention isbecoming a commodity, right,
(42:32):
like, and it's also anon-renewable resource, like we
only have so much bandwidth in aday, we only have so much time
in a day and it's so importantto spend that time well and
wisely.
And I and I think back to thecoaching piece I'm sorry I keep
going back to coaching, but Ithink having someone empower you
(42:53):
because I I again, I'm arecovering perfectionist, but
learning to say no to things wassomething I it took many years
in my career and understandingthat saying no allows for a
bigger and better yes, and I hadso many not even no's but just
kind of sort of maybes occupyingmy, my bandwidth and my time
(43:15):
that it didn't allow for thosehell yeses to come rushing in.
And I think that will very muchlike this podcast.
I know, right, like, okay, shipit, the episode's over, but I,
I see that too with you.
This podcast again is, I think,the genesis of you having space
to say yes to it, right, right,you didn't have this space
(43:37):
before, and so I'm so excited tosee where this goes.
And the final piece formentorship I was going to
mention is the aspirationalmentor, and I mean especially as
a woman.
In this space base I am lookingfor someone who is able to
(44:02):
balance parenthood and theircareer and these wonderful
communities they're cultivatingHeck even a hobby or two.
I think that might be a littletoo aspirational now, but
sometimes just looking for folksthat have walked the path to
know that it's even possible Imean they don't even have to
know my name, but I want to knowwho they are and I also would
love to know how they did it,because I think, with the many
facets that come with being justa person on planet earth,
(44:27):
knowing that someone has done itbefore or has gone there makes
it more attainable, at least formy brain.
I don't know if I'm you know Idon't know if I'm going.
No, that's so true.
Sarah Caminiti (44:40):
I just I agree completely.
Lauren Eimers (44:42):
It's yeah, Knowing someone's done it makes
all the difference it does and,and I think again, being able to
focus our time in a way, focusour attention in the directions
we want to go.
I think that's the key, but Ialso need to be able to see
someone who has done that right,because a lot of us who have
been in this industry longerthan others, we're now starting
(45:06):
to see a lot of the structuresthat we thought would hold not
support folks, not supportcompanies.
We've seen a lot ofbankruptcies, we've seen a lot
of layoffs, especially in thislast year, and so I am
interested to see the people andthe companies that have made
things work and how they've madeit work, and I think that that,
(45:26):
again, it's a combination ofeverything right.
It's finding people through acommunity or possibly one-on-one
mentorship, looking for thoseyounger mentors, or even getting
into maybe hiring a coach.
Sarah Caminiti (45:39):
I know that sometimes is a dirty word like
getting someone as a careercoach.
Lauren Eimers (45:44):
Well, and I also think, if you're paying for the
mentorship which is coaching, Ifeel like, again, it's like an
energetic exchange where like,okay, well, I put money into
this, so now I really have tostart taking action.
Sarah Caminiti (46:14):
We're like okay, well, I put money into this, so
now I really have to starttaking action, where, if it's a
mentor, like a volunteer basis,it's like, well, if I don't go
out on the limb or if I don'ttake, you know, a little risk on
myself, it's not everything,but once you start paying for a
service, it's like, oh well, I'mgonna, I'm gonna put my money
where my mouth is.
But anyway, no, agreecompletely.
And I think too, as a woman,it's so important to have people
around you that tell theirstory in an honest way, someone
that has lived it or hasexperienced it.
We need to see that in arealistic way.
(46:35):
So if you're a woman and youare realizing, like, why does
this feel, like it's like somuch harder than it feels for my
counterparts, then you can cometo a space that you're allowed
to say this feels hard and Idon't know why, and and the
(46:55):
others around you will willreply with yeah, it is hard.
It is hard.
You're allowed to admit thatit's hard.
You're allowed to acknowledgethat you are a woman and things
are different for you.
You're allowed to acknowledgethe stuff that you have to think
about, that men do not have tothink about whenever you enter
into a conversation.
That's not going to change, butwhat will change is now you
(47:16):
have people in your corner thatare going to remind you of your
worth and your value and yourstrengths and your skills, so
that when you do enter thosespaces, you do so confidently
and you don't let yourself doubtyourself.
That, I think, is how thataspirational mentorship is just
(47:37):
a really cool opportunity.
Lauren Eimers (47:39):
Oh, I would agree as well, and I would just add,
especially since we both arewomen in this space, I think
kind of having community thereto reflect back is also a great
way to check our privilege, likethat's something that, again,
I'm still learning and stillliving this path where, wow, I
(48:00):
am so privileged in so many waystoo.
I mean us being able to hop onremotely and have this podcast,
like the privilege, like I lovethat for us, but also like we
need to name that and it wasn'tsomething that was even back to
the you don't know what youdon't know.
Having a community to helpreflect that back to you not
only can validate a lot ofthings you're going through, but
(48:23):
also help you understand theimmense privilege and a lot of
the spaces that you occupy,which is all part of it.
Right, it's like the wholepackage.
Sarah Caminiti (48:32):
And it all ties back to customer support,
because every customer isdifferent and you have to be
able to acknowledge it, and toleadership.
You have to acknowledge thatyour team is coming from very
different places and you have tobe reminding yourself of that
at all times.
Lauren Eimers (48:47):
Yes, well, we covered it all.
I think next time we're justgoing to work on the really
heavy topics.
How about that?
Sarah Caminiti (48:56):
I like that, and I will hit record a lot earlier
and before you go, Lauren, I dolike to end all of my calls by
asking my guests to share withme what era do you think that
you're in right now, or what erado you see yourself moving into
, and I would love to know yourera.
Lauren Eimers (49:14):
Oh well, thank you for this question, when I I
know I had a little preview ofit and I got to thinking I I'm
embodying it now, but I'm stillmoving into it, which is I I'm
growing, and I think I've alwaysbeen growing, always learning.
But what really excites me aboutthe phase that I'm in and
moving into me, about the phasethat I'm in and moving into, is
(49:40):
again and I mentioned thisearlier is that I'm in my my yes
era, where I've said no to thethings that no longer it's not
serving me, but things that I'mnot that don't light me up that
I'm not passionate about, and ithas already.
It's just magical.
This past year has been a lotof hard no's for me and hard
being like I've drawn the linein the sand, but also it was
(50:01):
really difficult for me to sayno For you, but I've said no to
the things that really were nolonger serving me, and it's just
been magical how so many thingshave presented themselves to me
that I've been able to say yes,absolutely to.
So that's, I'm in my yes era.
Sarah Caminiti (50:22):
I love this era.
I cannot wait to see the thingsthat you say yes to and the
opportunities that presentthemselves to you, because you
definitely deserve it and folksare lucky to have you around, so
I'm just really excited for you.
Lauren Eimers (50:35):
Well, thank you so much.
This has been such a lovely wayto have you around, so I'm just
really excited for you.
Well, thank you so much.
This has been such a lovely wayto spend my time.
Sarah Caminiti (50:43):
Listeners, please go out and find yourself
a mentor.
I wish so much that when I wasstarting out in the SaaS
industry, when I was startingout in my leadership journey,
that I understood what I had infront of me and that was the
opportunities for mentorshipwithin this community.
Let me tell you, these past sixmonths, I have met so many
(51:05):
wonderful people who are eagerto help others be successful,
and if we don't take advantageof this, then we're not allowing
ourselves to really reach ourfull potential.
We need folks like you,listeners, to join this
community so we can learn fromyou and we can share what we've
learned along the way.
I am so happy that we got tolearn from Lauren today.
(51:28):
Thank you so much, listeners,for spending this time with us
and for being open to change.
We can't wait around to seechange happen us and for being
open to change.
We can't wait around to seechange happen when you feel it
in yourself that a better wayexists.
You owe it to yourself andthose around you to try, because
great things happen when you do.
Thank you so much to Buzzsprout.
Thank you so much to mycommunity, elevate CX.
(51:48):
If you have not purchased yourticket for Denver, that's
September 26th and 27th for theElevate CX conference.
Please do so.
You'll see the link at the verytop of the episode description.
Also, if you're over in the UKor Europe, make sure that you
are purchasing your tickets forthe Elevate CX event in London
(52:09):
on November 8th.
I will 100% be there.
No challenge necessary that oneis going to sell out.
It's a one-day event.
Hurry up and get your tickets.
Listeners, remember that smallthings ignite change and you're
capable of so much more than yourealize.
Thank you again for spendingtime with me and thank you so
much to Lauren Eimers forsharing everything that you have
(52:30):
learned and for pushing us togo out there and be mentors and
find a mentor, because we willbe better for it.
This is Sarah Caminiti.
You're listening to EpochalGrowth.
I'm so happy that you're hereand I will see you again on
Tuesday when we release our nextepisode.
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