September 10, 2024 • 59 mins
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What if customer support could be the secret weapon in your arsenal for product innovation? Join us as we chat with Elyse Mankin, who takes us on a journey from her marketing roots to becoming a pivotal figure in customer support.
We promise you'll discover how integrating support and product teams can revolutionize your approach to customer feedback and drive meaningful change. Elyse shares her invaluable insights on the evolving landscape of support, especially with the rise of AI, and how these advancements provide new opportunities for teams to focus on impactful work.
Building solid relationships across your organization is key, and Elyse underscores the importance of understanding customer feedback to inform product development. You'll learn how individual issues can reveal broader trends and how effective communication with other departments can lead to scalable solutions. Regular check-ins with key partners, like product managers, ensure alignment and maximize the effectiveness of support initiatives. This episode is packed with strategies for fostering a culture of curiosity and openness, allowing your team to experiment and innovate without fear of failure.
Transparency and effective communication are at the heart of enhancing the support experience. Elyse discusses the power of showing customers that their feedback is valued, which can significantly boost trust and engagement. We'll explore the crucial role of support teams as both product experts and problem solvers and the importance of cross-functional collaboration. Empowering support teams with autonomy and ownership, celebrating their successes, and embracing change are all vital components in driving innovation and achieving positive outcomes. Don't miss out on these game-changing insights that can transform your support strategy and elevate your product development process.
“Change will not come if we wait for some other person, or if we wait for some other time. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek.”
- Barack Obama
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Caminiti (00:09):
Hello listeners, welcome to Epochal Growth.
In today's episode, we'rediving into the world of
customer support and how it canbe a game changer for product
innovation.
Our guest, Elyse Menken, is anexpert in turning customer
feedback into actionableinsights that drive real change.
She'll share her top strategiesfor leveraging support data,
(00:31):
building cross-functionalcollaboration and creating
products that truly resonatewith your customers.
Whether you're in support,product development or just
looking to innovate, thisepisode is packed with valuable
takeaways.
Let's get started.
Thank you for coming here andyour time for your first podcast
(00:53):
, my very first one.
Elyse Mankin (00:55):
I can't wait.
Sarah Caminiti (00:57):
It's going to be good.
I was looking through yourLinkedIn and you have been doing
this for a long time, but youstarted in marketing.
I did yeah.
Elyse Mankin (01:09):
Yeah, I, you know, went to business school and was
like I don't, what are theseemphases?
I don't know.
I guess I'll pick marketing.
And yeah, I got a job as amarketing assistant out of
college and then scaled up tothe marketing manager and
realized that is not the way mybrain works at all.
(01:30):
No, why, not, um, it just youknow, and maybe it was the, it
was the type of work that I wasdoing there, but it just doesn't
, it doesn't feed my soul, it'sit's, it's too far away from the
customer for me.
Um, you know, at least the typeof work that I was doing there,
which was very much like SEObased.
(01:50):
I was doing their emailcampaigns.
Um, you know, I I wasn't, Ireally wasn't in a customer
facing role and it it kind oftook me a couple of iterations
of of work after that to reallyrealize, like, no, I like to be
right in front of the customerand I like to be talking to you
know, the people who are usingour, you know tools or or
(02:11):
whatever it is, um, you know,for the company that I'm working
for.
So, um, yeah, I kind of justslowly found my way into account
management from there and theninto, like, technical customer
support and, um, I used HelpScout at my previous company,
which is how I kind of cameacross their blog and fangirled
for many years, very, very hard,and eventually, yeah, I found
(02:34):
my way onto the support teamthere and grew quite a bit over
those.
Sarah Caminiti (02:39):
What seven and a half years or so it's a long
time to be at a place and youbuilt something so cool for
yourself.
I was looking at like thetrajectory and like you should
be really proud of yourself.
That is a cool story that yourjob history.
Thank you.
Elyse Mankin (02:59):
Thank you.
Yeah, it was a really fun ride,I, you know, and it really
honestly happened quiteorganically over there.
When I joined the team, I likekind of had this interest in
product and my manager at thetime was, like, well, we'll get
you in front of like some of theproduct projects, see, you know
how you like it from a supportperspective and you know, we'll
kind of just like see whatdevelops out of there.
(03:20):
And you know, we'll kind ofjust like see what develops out
of there.
And through like starting todip my toes in those waters, I
realized that there was justthis huge gap or huge need to
like really bridge the supportand the product teams together
in just a more meaningful way.
It's not like we didn't talk toeach other, we did, but you
(03:41):
know, there was just more to gothere in terms of like really
creating a cool partnership tosupport customers in a deeper
way.
So, um, yeah, I'm really proudof of the way that the team was
built and just all of the coolthings they were able to
accomplish um, over, you know,during my time there was, it was
a really it was a really funride.
Sarah Caminiti (04:01):
That's so special.
That's so special and you hadsuch a huge part in it, and now
it's a perfect time for thesesorts of conversations, with the
history that you've had and theknowledge that you've been able
to gather over the years,because finally people are being
more vocal about it.
(04:21):
People are being more vocalabout it Finally.
They're like accepting that allthe stuff they've been hearing
quietly you know the whispersabout over the years are
thinking maybe this couldactually be a way to go.
You're coming in and it's likeno, no, really like I've been
doing this for years and this iswhy it's so important.
Elyse Mankin (04:41):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think too, just it's
an interesting time and supportum, just generally speaking,
with all of the evolution that'shappening.
You know, I know AI is the bigbuzzword right now, but it's
it's not something to be takenlightly either.
I mean, if you can implement AIin a way that makes sense for
your customers number one, uh,and it's still providing a
(05:02):
really good experience for them.
But number two is alsounlocking, maybe, some capacity
for your team.
You get to get really creativein how you want to support your
customers in a deeper, morerobust, more helpful way, and
that could include the productarm, it could include education,
it could include team training.
There's so many things that youcan do and that's what gets me
excited.
It's like, okay, how can?
(05:22):
It could include team training.
There's so many things that youcan do and that's what gets me
excited.
It's like, okay, how can we nowtake all of these tools and all
of this you know, um, thisevolution that's in front of us,
and use it in like a really fun, creative way to have a deeper
impact for your customers andfor your business?
Sarah Caminiti (05:38):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
And the opportunity that AI hasprovided more, and the
opportunity that AI has providedfor acknowledging the
incredibly intelligent folksthat live and support, but also
giving them the opportunity toacknowledge it themselves,
because they're not so busy justtrying to put out all the fires
that they have to put out allthe time makes for very cool
(06:03):
conversations that you wouldn'thave been able to have otherwise
, yeah, I agree A hundredpercent.
Yeah, it's a cool time.
It's a cool time.
So before we dive in, dive in,I want you to have a chance to
introduce yourself in any waythat you would like to introduce
yourself.
So, Elyse, nice to meet you.
Elyse Mankin (06:26):
Yes, yes, Thank you for having me.
Yeah, no, it's a pleasure to behere.
First podcast I am.
Yeah, I was thinking about mybio.
I've been in support customerservice really since my very
first job hosting birthdayparties at my local ice rink, so
you know most.
Previously I was the directorof product support at Help Scout
, where I built and scaled thevoice of customer support
(06:50):
readiness and our documentationfunctions on our support team.
Yeah, I'm just really excitedto talk about all the ways
support can be a really bigvalue add for customers and for
your business.
Sarah Caminiti (07:01):
I am so pumped that this is what we're going to
be talking about, because thisis the opportunity right now for
folks in support to be aware ofall of the different areas that
they can use what they have andgrow what they have and build
(07:22):
it, because one of the biggeststruggles in support is you
don't know what you don't knowuntil it's too late.
And that goes for data, butthat also goes for sharing
information within your companyand getting you that seat at the
table.
If you don't know what you'resupposed to provide, then how
(07:43):
are you supposed to do it?
And all of the information thatwe're going to be chatting
about today sets a foundation,because it gives you that
baseline to be successful and tobe confident when you're going
into those spaces.
So thank you for choosing thisas your area of focus, and I'm
(08:11):
so excited to learn from you,because there's a lot to know
about the value add factor ofsupport and how that can impact
your business in atransformative way.
Elyse Mankin (08:16):
Yeah, it's a really cool one.
Lots to talk about there, forsure.
Sarah Caminiti (08:21):
Yes, yeah, before the podcast, we go over
some things and I have thiswhole list that AI generates and
, oh my goodness, folkslistening, there was a list and
it was robust.
Each one could have been like aseven hour conversation in and
of itself.
So we'll try to keep this as uh, as focused and uh as we can,
(08:43):
without, you know, having toorder takeout for dinner because
we've been here for so long.
But one of the first things Iwant to know, Elyse, is what was
your introduction to the valuethat lived within the data and
support?
Elyse Mankin (08:58):
That's a really yeah, that's a good question.
You know, I think when I thinkof value add and the way that I
was really introduced to it,honestly it started with like a
single conversation in trying tofigure out.
You know, okay, there's thisquestion in front of me, right,
I need to answer the questionfor the customer, but how can I
support them, like even furtherfrom that one customer and
thinking like outside of youknow, what are they immediately
(09:21):
asking me and how can I supportmaybe the things on the fringes
there, just to give them thenext steps that they might run
into?
And if you, you really takethat idea of thinking beyond the
ticket and scale that up to OK,what about now beyond the queue
?
I know that there's all thesethings happening in here.
What are they, why are theyhappening and what can I do
(09:44):
about it?
Um, you know that to me hasalways been just like a really
satisfying or interestingquestion to ask Um, because
there's so much within support,within your direct control, that
you can really move needles onUm and you have a lot of wiggle
room within the support umbrellato again like just really get
(10:06):
creative with how you want to bea value add to your customer,
and it starts with your data.
It starts with reallyunderstanding what are customers
saying, what are they coming toyou with, what are the problems
that they're presenting yourteam with, and how can we solve
those in a scalable way for themteam with and how can we solve
(10:28):
those in a scalable way for them.
Sarah Caminiti (10:29):
Yeah, it's true, that is where you have to start
.
You have to start actuallygiving yourself the time to
analyze the individual questions.
You have to invest in the timefor QA and using it.
Not necessarily, I mean, you'regoing to learn things about how
the agents are performing justby being in the space.
But if the goal and the purposeof that time is not to
(10:51):
scrutinize comma usage butinstead to really drill down,
what was that one reason thatthis person was no longer able
to continue independently, andhow does that impact their
journey?
Because what's the one thingthat we know about support?
If one person writes in, therewere tons of other folks that
(11:13):
kept it to themselves and didnot share the information.
Elyse Mankin (11:17):
It's that funnel right.
You know you have all of yourusers and customers at the top
and you know only a certain,very small usually percentage
are writing in about whateverchallenges in front of them.
So yeah, I mean, if you cantake that challenge or those
trends and extrapolate it, youknow, even with, like your
product usage data, that can bea really compelling story to
(11:37):
tell If you're advocating forchange or even if you're just
advocating to take on specialprojects within the support team
, you can kind of really showthat there's deeper impact here
beyond you know maybe 5% of yourcustomers asking about a
certain thing that product usagedata can be really helpful for
just telling that story in adeeper way.
Sarah Caminiti (11:59):
What was the best way, when you were trying
to figure out how to present thedata to other teams whether it
be higher up in leadership orsharing it with the product team
to explain why this is soimportant to focus on or to
tweak?
How were you successful?
Elyse Mankin (12:21):
There's no, like you know, magic key here for
this.
I think that it really justcomes down to really deeply
knowing your people and alsoshowing your work to a degree so
you know if you were trying toadvocate outside of the support
department where you might need,you know, buy in from
leadership or buy in from otherdepartments.
(12:42):
Relationship building here iskey.
Really kind of taking the timeto get to know those leaders,
get to know the people who youmight want to work with or ask
for resources from, is reallycritical.
And in secondary to that, ormaybe in tandem to that, is
really deeply understanding howthey like to receive information
(13:05):
, what is important to them.
You have to be able to speaktheir language.
So, whether that's your revenuedepartment has certain revenue
goals that they want to hit andmaybe you have something that
could help them with that, speakin those languages and really
make sure that you are tyingyour ask or what you are
advocating for into what thosefolks care about at the time.
(13:28):
And the same can be said foryour organizational goals too.
I think it's really critical,particularly if you're trying to
make any like really big betsor really advocate for like
large changes, to tie that intoyour org goals.
So if, that is, you're alltrying to reduce churn, that is
like the number one thing you'refocused on right now.
You should be looking at yourtrends through that lens so that
(13:49):
you can really say like theseare like the top three things
that I think we could do toreally, you know, reduce our
churn amount.
And here's why.
And if you can speak to thoseyou know, to those goals and,
again, really knowing yourpeople and how they, how they
like to receive information.
Is it a report?
Is it a pitch deck?
(14:09):
Is it?
Do they want all the context?
Do they want the bare bones?
You know these are all reallyimportant questions to ask and
really deeply understand so thatyou can make sure that you're
doing everything you can to beheard.
Is really what it comes down to?
You can to be heard.
Is really what it comes down to.
And then, equally important too, is just showing your work also
(14:33):
in the same languages thatmakes sense to those people and
tying up to those business goals.
Sarah Caminiti (14:35):
That's such fantastic advice.
It's one of the great gifts ofbeing a support professional is
the generalist mentality whenyou are in a space and your
ability to look at things fromother people's perspectives, and
that is such a that is themagic ticket to to figuring out
(14:57):
how to be all of these differentthings for so many different
people, but in a way that's notoverwhelming.
You don't need to be an expert.
You don't need to take courseson SEO or marketing.
They are experts for a reasonand you're there to aid in their
(15:20):
success and the customer'ssuccess and the company's
success.
How often did you find yourselfchecking in with these
different departments to makesure that your approach was
still the best way to move?
Elyse Mankin (15:32):
forward Regularly.
I mean, I think things change,people change, focuses change,
right.
I think that identifying whoyour main partners are is really
important and then setting up aregular sync For me with our
product managers.
I always had like a monthlyone-on-one where we would check
in on all of the things onroadmap, on feedback, on what
(15:55):
we're hearing from customers.
You know, how is this workingfor everyone?
All of those questions are allreally important and I think,
particularly with your closestpartners, just making sure that
you are touching base at acadence that makes sense to you
is really important, just tomake sure everyone is staying on
the same page and you're justworking the most efficiently
(16:15):
together.
That's really what it's aboutis how can we, how can we all
support each other in the bestway right now?
What is really working for usand what might we need to change
or adjust?
Sarah Caminiti (16:26):
Yeah, I love that point because working
efficiently, especially onsmaller teams or teams that are
investigating different ways todo things.
Time is everything and if youcan show the others that are in
the other departments, I'm nothere to waste your time, I'm
here to really just fine tunethis so that we can make the
(16:47):
biggest impact together.
Then it'll be so much easier togo into the next stage of
things together, because you'vecreated that foundation.
Elyse Mankin (16:57):
Yep, and I think, really, just listening to your
team on that too, you know, atleast for me, they were in so
many other spaces that I wasn't.
So, you know, no idea is a badidea, and I always like to tell
them nothing is written in stonehere.
Well, we don't want to bechanging things constantly,
right, like there is theopposite end of the spectrum.
That is a challenge.
You know, if you're seeingchallenges or problems pop up or
(17:19):
you think there's a better wayto do something, let's talk
about it and try it.
And you know, I think that'sequally important for baking
into the process, just to makesure that, again, we are all
working as effectively aspossible together.
Sarah Caminiti (17:32):
I love that you did that.
That is such an important thing.
As a leader, you have to createa space where people are
allowed to investigate and tryand fail sometimes, but in a way
that is a learning experiencefor everybody.
Elyse Mankin (17:49):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I feel like that's reallyfoundational, particularly with
this concept of value add insupport.
It's that you know, hiring forand instilling a very healthy
sense of curiosity in your team,making it safe to fail and
really empowering them to trydifferent things Right, like you
know, be clear on what you wantto try to accomplish and what
maybe those success measures are.
(18:09):
But go try it and, you know,hopefully it works and we can
really show that success story.
But you know, if it doesn't, ifwe run into challenges or
roadblocks, for any, you knowany reason, we just talk about
it, we learn from it and we moveon and you know it's all a
learning experience.
Sarah Caminiti (18:27):
It is, and every person that's on your team,
every person really within thecompany, represents some sort of
customer that's using yourservice.
And so taking all of thosedifferent ideas instead of
creating a team where everybodythinks the same way, operates
the same way, put such adisadvantage on communication
with your customer, and thatallows for so much more value to
(18:50):
them, because then the customerthemselves feel safe to ask
those questions and to bringthem to you.
How did you feel with thecustomer when you started to
really see a change with productdevelopment that was
customer-based and database andand started to see the impact
that this was having within thecustomer experience and also
(19:12):
within the business side ofthings?
How did you communicate thiswith the customer?
Elyse Mankin (19:17):
That's a good question.
You know, on the backend, likewith our processes and our the
team that we really kind ofcreated, we did a couple of you
know more like inside scoop ofhelp scout, like blog posts that
we talked about the team, butfor us in, in communicating like
value to customers, it justreally comes down to being
(19:38):
consistent and closing thoseloops Right.
So, whether it was like a bugthat we advocated for or, you
know, like a small improvement,we have a whole follow up
process where, you know, everyrequest from a customer is
attached to a JIRA ticket ifit's like a broken thing or a
net new thing that they'reasking for.
So when those things areimplemented and put into
(20:00):
production, the support teamfollows up on them immediately.
It could be a five-year-oldticket that like was this random
little thing that they wanted?
But you know, we think it'sreally important to just really
close that loop for anyone who'srequested.
Who knows, maybe they movedaway from the platform, you know
, a while ago, but this was thething they really wanted and it
(20:21):
could bring them back.
I just think it's a really nicelike delight or touch on on top
of the cake of you know, reallykind of just showing we are
listening, we hear you and theseare the things that we are
doing to build the product.
Sarah Caminiti (20:34):
That is such an it's a really valuable thing
that you can do and it doesn'ttake time, it doesn't?
Elyse Mankin (20:38):
I mean, it does take a little bit of time, but a
little bit, yeah, you canautomate it for the most part
Use your workflows, use yourmacros, I mean, you know it's
quite simple as long as you havethe infrastructure behind it.
Sarah Caminiti (20:49):
No, definitely, Because I mean, the customers
want to feel like they're partof the journey and even if it
was something from five yearsago, I almost feel like those
five-year-old ones are the bestones, because then they know
okay, not only do they notforget, but they were being
honest with me when they saidthis isn't something that's on
(21:11):
the roadmap for right now, butit is something that we're going
to look into and, should it besomething that we take on, we
will let you know.
And you did.
You followed through.
Elyse Mankin (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, they are fun.
Yeah, it's the.
Oh my gosh, I couldn't.
I totally forgot.
I asked about this, or like Iwasn't expecting a response.
You know three years later, butthis is so cool, thank you, and
they're fun conversations Ilove it.
Sarah Caminiti (21:36):
What was the?
So, now that there's going tobe such a shift, there's going
to be, there is such a shift intalking about the value piece of
support and the opportunitieswithin support, what have you
been seeing in any sort of spaceblogs, linkedin, social media,
folks that you follow um, that'sthat really is hitting the nail
(22:00):
on the head.
And are there things thatyou're seeing that's kind of
like a game of telephone whereit's just getting a little bit
muddied?
Elyse Mankin (22:08):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I I think just being really thefolks who are just being very
vocal and very clear with theirimpact is where, like, yeah,
we're hitting the nail on thehead.
You know value add.
When I think of value add, Ithink of this is a way to really
(22:30):
like amplify supportsuperpowers.
It's getting very clear of,like, what is that for your team
?
They're your product experts.
They are your deep, deep, deepproblem solvers or deep
researchers and how can wereally amplify you know those
amazing skills to not onlyimpact you know the support team
directly and the work thatthey're doing, but to have
(22:52):
impact on your customers, tohave impact on the business and
really just be very transparentin your organization around that
work and what that means.
I think getting clear on the whyit's important is critical
because if without the why, Ithink it just muddies the waters
quite a bit and it begs thequestion of like, well, if we
(23:13):
don't understand the why, thenwhat are we doing?
And you know what?
Why are we spending this time?
Why are we spending this moneyon whatever project or
initiative?
This is so really reallyclearly communicating that why I
think is quite critical.
We are all very happy to help,very happy to step in Um, but it
(23:40):
can create a situation where,like, roles and responsibilities
get a little unclear, um,particularly cross-functional or
cross team initiatives orprojects.
So you know, I think justgetting very clear of you know
where, where are these roles,who's responsible for what um
and making sure you have buy-infrom you know anyone on the team
or any stakeholders ahead of aproject or an initiative,
starting is really critical formaking sure that things are as
(24:04):
clear as possible and then wecan really speak to impact in a
very clear, concise way.
Sarah Caminiti (24:11):
Yeah, no, that's the transparency piece of it
all is something that I'mrealizing with all these
wonderful conversations that I'mhaving with folks in the
support world and CX in general.
That is how you can make adifference.
There's really no reason not tobe transparent, because
(24:33):
everybody is a part of this withyou.
Everybody is a smart, capablehuman being that's able to
process information in in a goodway, and and when you start
making assumptions about howthey're going to take
information or what they'regoing to pull from it, or
(24:53):
they're not, they're not readyfor this.
How do you know?
How do you know?
You never tried, um, so yeah,well, you never know.
Elyse Mankin (25:01):
Also, you know if we're not talking about what
we're focusing on or what trendswe're seeing or what we're
thinking about as leaders.
You know you.
You just don't know whatsomeone else in another
department is thinking about.
Maybe they are thinking aboutthe exact same thing or seeing
something very similar thatcould be very complimentary
towards you know, gettingsomething done or moving like a
very specific impactful needlefor the business.
(25:21):
So, yeah, I just think it'sreally critical to talk about
the things that you're seeing,the things you're focusing on,
what you're thinking about, withall of your partners across the
org.
Sarah Caminiti (25:32):
When you're working with a team, when you're
leading a team and you'retrying, you're noticing this
trend is happening all the timeand it's coming in so many
different ways, but it's a it'sa big undertaking and you're
presenting the informationyou're advocating for the
customer.
You're you're really trying topaint that clear picture and
(25:54):
it's, there's not any movement.
Um how, how does that work foryou and your team?
Elyse Mankin (26:03):
Yeah, you know, I think that's the age old uh
support conundrum um is the.
You know, you see these thingsso clearly, right, um, but for
one reason or another, uh,they're, they're not prioritized
or they're not moved on asquickly as you would like.
I think getting very clearagain with what metrics count in
(26:25):
this situation is important.
If it's something that isbroken, that needs to be fixed,
or something that customers arereally tripping over and getting
very confused which stillcounts in that broken bucket for
me, and getting very confused,which still counts in, like that
broken bucket for me, I thinkgetting very clear of, like,
what is the cost to that is veryhelpful not only to customers
(26:46):
but to the support team as well.
You know, not all bugs arecreated equally.
Some are, like, verystraightforward and can be
pushed a little bit, just in thegrand scheme of things.
But if they're really kind ofcreating the situation where
customers are, you know, notable to do what they need to do
in the product, maybe they'regetting completely thrown off
the path of what they'reintending to do.
Maybe there's a lot of you know, heavy support overhead in
(27:08):
supporting this bug.
They have to go in and fixsomething manually or like they
really have to like handholdcustomers in a very deep way
through this.
Getting very clear andcommunicating that in a concise
way is critical.
And then I think too, just kindof taking fresh eyes at the
situation as well.
I'm remembering an issue that wehad a few years ago that evaded
(27:33):
all of us.
We could not figure it out forthe life of us.
I mean, we had engineering,support, product people,
everyone looking at this and waslike we can't figure it out, I
have no idea.
And the trend just kept growing.
Customers were so unhappy andit just kind of felt like it was
going to defeat us to a degree.
But taking a fresh look at it,um, one of us was able to figure
(27:58):
out like wait a minute, there'sa common thread here, uh, with
another feature in the platformand it turned out that like that
was the root of the bug.
And so just kind of taking likea fresh perspective, like just
kind of, you know, removing allof the maybe assumptions or, you
know, preconceived ideas thatyou have about a situation as
much as you can from your mind,to take like a very fresh look
(28:19):
at something.
I think that is also the valuethat can't be understated or
bringing someone in fresh.
They can look at it from adifferent perspective.
Sarah Caminiti (28:28):
Definitely.
I mean, the fresh eyes issometimes the biggest superpower
that you can throw at something.
It goes in so many differentways, but you have to remember.
Elyse Mankin (28:41):
It seems so simple .
It does A lot of things do seemso simple.
Sarah Caminiti (28:47):
But, dang, is it effective?
Yes, agreed, yeah, how often doyou find yourself trying to
find fresh pairs of eyes to lookat things?
From documentation, it's alwayshelpful.
Elyse Mankin (29:01):
Honestly, I mean, I can't really think of a
situation where it's not helpful, whether it's like a proofread
right, just to like make surethat this looks good, or, you
know, like I'm really likehitting my head against the wall
trying to figure out what'shappening here and, you know,
bringing in that freshperspective even when talking to
(29:23):
customers.
We know that, you know, pullingjust a different voice into the
conversation can be like thehelpful, like reset that you
need in a situation.
So, yeah, I I think it'scritical, you know, just to
really build that community,that collaboration within your
team.
Sarah Caminiti (29:35):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
So you've been working in theproduct support area for a while
now.
How does that differ from otherareas of support?
Elyse Mankin (29:46):
Yeah, so to me it is just part and parcel of it.
So the product support team atHelp Scout I think it is still
very critical that those folkswho are in maybe more of like
the value add focuses as theirmain priority are still in the
queue.
They are work up into the queue25 to 50% of their time.
(30:06):
For me, I think it is hard toadvocate for customers if you
don't really deeply understandthem, how they use the product,
how they talk about it, howeverything is interconnected and
you know there is a very uniquesuperpower with support teams
(30:27):
in very deeply understandingthis and particularly teams that
are using their platform aswell, using it and supporting it
at the same time.
It's just really, reallycritical to be talking to your
customers as well.
So I think of them half asfrontline, but half the value
(30:47):
add functions as well, and theintersection to me is very
interesting and I think itcreates for not only like a
really interesting role andinteresting work, but just a
lovely way to improve thecustomer experience.
Sarah Caminiti (31:05):
It really does.
It's a bridge.
It's a bridge that wasn't therebefore, and it's really cool to
see that happening more oftenwithin the CX space.
Elyse Mankin (31:20):
Yeah, it's a fun way to create some growth paths
for your team as well.
Right, you know whether itwhether you make a dedicated
role for it, or maybe it's justyou know special initiatives
that you're doing or specialprojects, and this goes beyond.
You know just the, the productarm of support as well.
It could be documentation, itcould be education, training
there's a number of things thatyou can do, but it creates that
(31:44):
opportunity for time out of thequeue and time to just reset a
little bit and have impact in adeeper, different but still very
like support centric way.
Sarah Caminiti (31:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
There's so many differentcorners of support and allowing
space to explore those and andreally lean into folks areas of
excitement or expertise and letthem shine.
You got to do that as a leader.
Elyse Mankin (32:12):
Yep, yeah, Stretch your legs.
Stretch your wings Exactly Forfor you, throughout your legs.
Sarah Caminiti (32:17):
Stretch your wings Exactly For you.
Throughout your career, you'vestarted in one space, discovered
support and built a whole newcorner of support to lead and to
grow.
What are the superpowers thatyou found for yourself within
that time?
(32:37):
I think?
Elyse Mankin (32:38):
yeah, it comes back to curiosity and really
just relationship building.
For me, I think those two arereally important.
I've also been thinking quite abit about just like horizontal
knowledge and, really, to yourpoint, you don't have to be a
specialist in marketing or inrevenue or in product to have
(33:00):
impact in all of those areas,but you have to be curious about
them and you have to be open tolearning about them.
And you know, having that beingable to work broadly across
different functions in differentdepartments in different
(33:20):
departments, but also specializein your vertical, I think is a
really powerful way to work anda really powerful way to have
impact.
And one way that you do that isthrough relationship building.
Right, go meet a friend atretreat or in the office for
marketing and have them talkabout a project that they're
working on.
It's a really great way to oneget to know people.
Have them talk about a projectthat they're working on.
It's a really great way to oneget to know people.
But two, learn from them, learnwhat they're focused on, learn
(33:41):
what they maybe challenges thatthey're running into or concerns
that they have.
It's a fun, collaborative wayto just learn about the
organization and about yourpeople and you can use that for
your growth.
You can get curious about it.
You can start to think aboutways to piece the puzzle pieces
together.
(34:01):
If you are seeing one specifictrend in the support queue I bet
you it's not, you're not on anisland with it particularly if
you have other customer facingteams.
So you know, how can you thentie those pieces together in a
way that it makes an interestingnarrative for the company and
that all comes down torelationship building and, just
(34:24):
yeah, having your people in theorg that you can talk to and you
can lean on and validate yourideas with.
Sarah Caminiti (34:31):
Yeah, no, that's true.
That's it's validating theideas.
I love that you said that,because it's not something that
people bring up a lot and thepower that that has of
empowering people to feelconfident enough to explore
these ideas is one of thegreatest gifts that you can give
(34:52):
your team as a leader topromote that and nurture that.
Because how many times have wegotten in our own head or how
many times have we startedlooking at things and thought,
no, no, no, somebody tried thisand it failed.
But really that's not the case,or it was years ago.
Elyse Mankin (35:14):
Right, right, well , and I think it also just comes
down to prioritization too.
Right there, there's aninfinite number of things that
we could be doing, but we do nothave the time or, you know, the
hands to do everything all atonce.
So, you know, having thosepeople that you can validate
your ideas against also justhelps with prioritization of
(35:35):
okay, are you seeing this thingover here?
Is it as big of a problem oropportunity as I think it is?
What do you think about this?
Right, and it really kind ofhelps you narrow down what you
could be focusing on at anygiven time.
And then empowering your teamsto go run after that thing is
also just, yeah, very important.
Sarah Caminiti (35:54):
Giving them the space to any autonomy to to just
do the work yeah for sure,definitely the um, the space is
needed, the space, the space tobe able to think thoughtfully
about things, the space to toreally take ownership for things
.
Um, and and and just explore,because support is a very vast
(36:17):
space and there's always a lotof other things that we could be
doing.
There's always a lot of talkabout always use our help for
something or something else weneed to chase down.
And, throughout your career,what have you found to be the
ways that you allow this foryour team, like, how do you make
(36:41):
it happen?
Elyse Mankin (36:43):
Yeah, Again, I think it gets back into like
roles and responsibilities andjust having those conversations
around what is on your plate andhow can I best support you.
You know I want to always makesure that the role feels
sustainable.
You know we might go throughheavy periods of, you know, just
a lot going on and we got to dothe things.
(37:04):
But if we can roll out of themin a way that feels good to
everyone, that is always my goaland it starts with just having
a conversation with your teamand with your people around
what's on your plate.
Are those really the mostimportant things to be working
on, or is there a way that I canhelp step in?
(37:28):
Can we delegate Really justknowing what's happening for
them, particularly in across-functional team?
Again, they're in so many spacesthat I am not so things come at
your players from all of thesedifferent corners of the
business.
So for me it's just been veryimportant to deeply understand
(37:48):
what they're focusing on, wherethey want to focus and where
they see opportunities, and thenjust creating that space for
them and supporting them in it.
If that comes down to saying,okay, we're going to say no to
anything else that comes in forthe next, you know, two weeks,
you can go heads down on this,this project.
You've got my support, I've gotyour back.
Go for it.
We'll kind of, you know, put onon, do not disturb for you for
(38:11):
a little bit, and you know, justsupporting them through that
that's awesome, and you knowjust supporting them through.
Sarah Caminiti (38:17):
That.
That's awesome.
That's awesome With your careerand the trajectory that you've
taken.
Do you see yourself staying ina product focused support space,
or are you thinking about waysthat those skills that you've
acquired could could work in inother areas?
Elyse Mankin (38:37):
Yeah, I, they could definitely work in other
areas.
Yeah, they could definitelywork in other areas.
When I think about thetrajectory of my career, I am
really just so interested inthat support intersection of all
of the functions in a businessand how can we leverage all of
the things that support isamazing at to have that deeper
(38:59):
impact.
So product is my, is a passion.
It always has been, and I, youknow, again, when I started this
role, I was like I want to be aproduct manager one day.
I think that's, that would belovely.
And you know, as I built andscaled the team, I really
realized sports, my home, that'swhere I want to be and it's
(39:20):
just, it's really interesting tothink about all of the ways
that we can leverage thoseskills, leverage the
relationships, leverage the datafrom your support queue to
figure out how to make thecustomer experience better, and
that's not isolated to product.
That is certainly one of thebigger ones, especially in any
(39:42):
product-led company.
But there's a million and oneways that you can go about
bettering things for yourcustomers.
And, like that's what gets meexcited is how can we really
leverage our team, leverage whatwe're hearing from customers,
leverage the tools, theresources available to us to
just make things better and tomake you know, make positive
(40:03):
impact for the people that wesupport and for the orgs that we
work for.
Sarah Caminiti (40:08):
Positive impact, that's yeah that's the best way
to make that change.
I mean, it's planting the seed,it's seeing what happens and
it's allowing it to show itselfin different ways.
And it's obvious that you areable to do that by creating that
sort of a space within theproduct connection of support.
(40:28):
And it's not an easy task tobridge that, that space from
support to product, because forso long they've been islands,
that space from support toproduct because for so long
they've been islands.
Elyse Mankin (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, really.
And you know it's, it's.
Yeah, I've been lucky to haveproduct leaders who were nothing
short of amazing in insupporting this bridge being
built.
And you know, it's just, it ismission, it is mission, mission
critical, excuse me, I think,for you know, building a truly
(41:03):
customer centric organization.
There's just so much knowledgeand so much information in your,
in your support queue that ifyou're not extracting that, not
only for your own use withinsupport right but to all of the
other places in the org thatshould be aware of what's
(41:24):
happening Um, those kinds ofgolden nuggets just die on the
vine and um, yeah, it's, it'sjust, yeah, it's, it's.
It's an easy way to reallyinstill customer centricity into
your org by reporting out whatyou're hearing and building
those bridges.
Sarah Caminiti (41:44):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean it's not.
If you have the data, you knowwhat to look for, you know what
to you know how to ask thosequestions to the customer.
If you need to get a little bitmore information or put
yourself in their shoes, thenthen it's.
It's just communication afterthat and and and.
Sometimes you're going to win,sometimes you're going to lose,
(42:06):
but at least if you continue tohave those conversations,
there's going to be some winsthat that make it all worthwhile
.
Elyse Mankin (42:14):
Yeah, and you know , I think reporting back to the
support team on that is equallycritical, just kind of closing
the loop right.
You know to your point,sometimes what you're advocating
for will get prioritized,sometimes it won't, but in those
won't cases for me it's soimportant to understand the why
and have those conversationswith the other stakeholders to
(42:35):
really get into the nitty grittyof okay, understood, we'll work
on these things.
You know, first and foremost,but what is the why?
What are we hoping to gain fromthat?
You know what's the progress onthose projects and really kind
of communicating it and closingthat two way loop with your
support team helps get buy in,helps them understand.
(42:56):
You know this might be a reallybig pain for us but if we're
thinking big picture andholistically throughout the
organization, there's actually acouple of other even bigger
pains that we think could move.
You know very specific needlesfor the business and that's why
we're going to prioritize, youknow, project A and B over the
one that we, you know, arereally advocating for, not to
(43:16):
say that we won't do it, it'sjust not quite the right time
for it.
And then keeping them in theloop of those conversations is
an important and impactful wayto just keep them connected to
the areas of the business and,you know, reduce the like island
feeling that the support queuecan sometimes be feeling that
(43:38):
the support cue can sometimes beyeah, no.
Sarah Caminiti (43:39):
Having those conversations goes back to
transparency.
If you keep to yourself thosedetails that you were able to
grab from the other departmentsas to why this isn't going to be
moving forward, and you just goback to them and say no, sorry,
it's so dissatisfying, right,and it's, it's, it's, it's
almost demoralizing of like, oh,but like we see these things so
(44:00):
clearly, what do you mean?
Elyse Mankin (44:02):
we're not gonna do it?
Um, you know the the no withoutthe why is?
Uh, it's hard, it's just plainhard.
And support, um, particularlywhen you, you hear, you know,
out of all the conversationsyou're having every single day
you might hear this five, 10, 20times and to feel like, you
know, support can be a bit of ablack hole without that.
(44:22):
Why, from the rest of the org?
Sarah Caminiti (44:24):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, so much it's.
It can be really frustrating,and especially when you're
you're in IC and you're you're,you think that you've you've
really given everything that youcan to drive this home and
you're going back to thosecustomers over and over and over
again, it makes the days suckbecause there's nothing you
(44:47):
could do.
But having a leader like you,that makes it a point to not
accept just an empty no and thenbring that back to the team and
say you know what?
We gave all of the informationthat we could and we're going to
(45:09):
revisit it in this amount oftime Once, once we're able to
finish these things, focus onthese things.
It wasn't a hard.
No, let's take it as a pause.
Even if it was a hard, no,always take it as a pause.
Elyse Mankin (45:24):
Yeah, again, nothing is ever written in stone
, ever.
You know you as a business, youcan make a pivot every single
day.
There's, you know, it's justdepending, depending on new
information, um, and, and whatis what is really happening with
customers?
And, um, yeah, it comes justdown to that clear communication
and, as you are getting newinformation, or maybe as urgency
(45:46):
, uh, is increasing from thecustomer perspective, advocating
for that and continuing to havethe conversation.
Um, you know, just because itwas a no yesterday does not mean
that it's a no a week from now,or with 50 more customers
reporting it, or new informationthat you've discovered from a
customer.
It's really just aboutcontinuing to be transparent,
(46:08):
continuing to beat on the drumsthat are important and are
causing trends and causingcustomers to write in.
Um, you'll get there eventually.
You will.
Uh, and then helping the teamunderstand the why in the
interim is important, and I alsothink it's important too to say
, okay, well, maybe this onething isn't being prioritized
right this second, but are thereother things that we could do?
(46:30):
That still feel really good, um, and still feel like we are
having that positive impact inthe areas that we really want to
be driving change.
Sarah Caminiti (46:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
There's so many things that youcan do within support.
There's so many things that youcan start to pick away at using
resources, resources from otherteams that that also are
excited to help with with thisin whatever way that they can.
I think one of the biggeststruggles of a lot of support
(47:01):
teams have is that connection tothe other departments and
especially with product beingkept in the loop through
everything and understanding thewhy.
Why did you only focus on thisone piece when really the bigger
picture is the only thing thatmatters?
And, uh, adding yourself andyour team to that whole journey
(47:24):
of product development?
Um, did that change drasticallyonce you were able to to create
the space?
Elyse Mankin (47:33):
Yeah, um, you know I, I remember if this was my
one of my like very firstproduct launches at help scout
is seven years ago or so.
Um, we launched a new featureand customers were asking us
questions about it that werelike wait a minute what it does,
what huh, and, like you know,no fault of anyone uh the
(47:53):
communication richness wasn'tthere yet, right?
And I think one of the reallycool things that I count as one
of the really big wins of thisteam is going through a really
heavy pricing migration, areally complex one.
That feels weird.
There's all these differentpaths that customers could be on
(48:14):
, weird.
There's all these differentpaths that, like, customers
could be on.
But the support team in ourlike team huddle coming back to
us and saying you know what thisfeels.
This feels hard, we will getthrough it, but I feel so
supported and I'm like I'm readyto talk to customers, I'm ready
to have these conversationswith all the resources you've
given us.
Like, I feel so empowered, Ifeel so ready to go, and all the
conversations I'm having withcustomers have been actually
(48:36):
pretty awesome through this veryhard thing, because we've taken
the time to really understandwhat is happening and what are
the options available tocustomers.
What are the options availableto your support team in terms of
escalation, just really takingthe time to deeply empower them
around something that could bechallenging or just cause a lot
(48:57):
of back and forth with customers.
We also do guest stars with ourproduct managers when we are
launching anything likerelatively large, and that's
been a really cool way toconnect the teams in a deeper
way and just continue thatrelationship so they're able to
come to our support teammeetings.
They talk about the why, theytalk about you know, any things
(49:20):
that they're still trying tovalidate within the product, or
they ask questions of you knowsupport team Like what do you
think about this feature or thisthing that we are still like
trying to figure out?
It's been a fun way to get ourICs involved in that
conversation too, but in like avery like lightweight, scalable
way.
Sarah Caminiti (49:41):
I love that idea we love guest stars.
Elyse Mankin (49:44):
Yes, yes, that's great.
Sarah Caminiti (49:47):
That's great, yeah, just make them feel
special too when they're comingto share the information.
Wow, no, I really I'm going totake that with me.
That one's a really good one,okay.
So one final question aboutthis is actually I've got two,
but the first of the final is soif someone is thinking about
(50:12):
this and they know they'reseeing it everywhere, but they
feel like they are so far behindbecause they didn't think about
this stuff two years ago, whatis the number one takeaway that
someone can take with them backto their space and start to
(50:33):
enter this world of a value addfor support?
Elyse Mankin (50:42):
One.
It's never too late, never,ever, ever too late to start
something like this.
And then I think of.
I think of two things.
The first is is understandingyour data.
It all starts with the data andit all starts with really
deeply understanding what ishappening for your customers and
how that's showing up in yoursupport queue and being able to
to quantify that Cause.
If we don't understand, like,what the biggest things are,
then how can we advocate for itRight?
(51:02):
Or how can we even internally,how do we prioritize the things
that could really have impact?
And then I think about thisconcept of like control versus
influence.
So what can I directly controlversus what can I influence?
And kind of bucketing up yourideas or your initiatives or
your projects into those twoideas can help people see
(51:26):
progress a little bit morequickly, especially if it's
something like directly withinyour control.
Start with a quick win and seewhat progress you're able to
make.
Report that back to your team.
It's a really fun way to show.
Hey, I know we had to manuallytag all of these conversations.
All right, we had to go throughsome digging in with customers
to really figure out what washappening here, but your work in
(51:48):
this area was able to achievethese very tangible things for
customers and for the business,and that can be a really fun
conversation to have with yourcustomer or with your team.
And, yeah, just just show thatyou can make progress relatively
quickly.
So those would be my my tips.
Sarah Caminiti (52:08):
Those are great.
Those are great.
I love that.
At the core of everything thatyou're doing, Elyse, and
everything that you were, you'vebuilt it is how can my team
feel successful and empowered?
Because that directlycorrelates to how that customer
is going to feel that they'retalking to.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely,absolutely.
(52:29):
So the real final questionbefore before what has been your
biggest proud win that you havehad?
Um could be in this department.
Uh, it could be in anything,but just in in your career.
What are?
What's something that alwaysstands out.
Elyse Mankin (52:50):
Oh, I'm just so proud of the team honestly, um I
it's been so much fun to seethem all grow and into like
their their horizontal moves aswell.
You know a couple of folksmoved into engineering, into
product, and it's been justhonestly a joy to see them get
to spread their wings and havelike really meaningful impact on
(53:13):
our support team, on ourproduct teams, for our customers
and then for themselves.
Whether that is you know doinglike a first conference talk or
you know making like a reallybig career move, I'm just so
freaking proud of them.
Sarah Caminiti (53:26):
Now, that's a good leader right there.
Elyse Mankin (53:28):
That's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti (53:30):
I'm so happy for the folks that have been able
to be blessed with you as theirguide.
Thank you, because this isspecial.
You're special and I hope thatanyone that listens to this is
able to understand the impactthat a supportive leader, a team
(53:53):
focused leader, has on what'spossible.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
So the real final question.
I like to end all of thesecalls with a moment to ask the
guest to tell me, either rightnow or heading into the future,
(54:15):
what era do you see yourself inor heading towards?
Elyse Mankin (54:20):
Yeah, for me.
I am actively in my embracingchange era.
Sarah Caminiti (54:28):
All right, listeners, I'm not one to
interrupt, especially rightbefore someone is about to go
into why they have just definedtheir era, but I have the best
reason.
You know how.
Last week, I talked a littlebit about the purpose of
defining eras and realizing thatgreat times, stressful times,
terrible times they don't lastforever.
(54:49):
Well, we have a real lifeexample.
When Elyse first recorded thisepisode back in May, she was in
a very different stage in herlife.
Her era was very, verydifferent, and I am so excited
for her to share with you whatthis new era is for her and why
that old era ended so that thisnew one could come in and take
(55:09):
over.
All right, let's get back intoit to it.
So, Elyse, when you were onhere last time, you had a very
different era because, like alleras, it came to an end, and now
you are transitioning into thisreally new, exciting time in
(55:29):
your life.
And so I got to know now thatit's been a couple of months and
things have changed in the bestpossible way.
What era are you in, Elyse?
Elyse Mankin (55:41):
Yeah, and this is like very timely for the time of
year and just all the newthings happening in my life
right now too.
But like I just feel, like I'min the like this is my year era,
like my birthday was lastweekend, I feel a new job and
all the things that just uh,yeah, I feel so, just grateful
and so excited to be where I'mat and, um, you know, I just
(56:03):
can't wait to see you know whatthose next trip around the sun
holds, and I think it's allgoing to be amazing things.
And uh, yeah, I'm just, I'mpumped.
Oh my gosh.
Sarah Caminiti (56:12):
Yeah Well, happy belated birthday.
I didn't know it was just yourbirthday.
Even better timing, you'reright, like the way that all of
it ended up playing out.
Yeah, it's just like theperfect setup for you to be
celebrating and kind of sit backand enjoy, like, all of this
(56:34):
greatness that's around you andcapitalize on it.
Elyse Mankin (56:37):
It's all just very synchronous.
There's a lot of good energyaround right now, so, yeah, just
feeling very, very grateful and, yeah, just so excited.
Sarah Caminiti (56:45):
Well, when the universe is telling you
something that you are on theright track, it shows you all of
these different signs to tellyou to keep going and keep doing
it.
And obviously, to tell you tokeep going and keep doing it and
obviously, this whole period oftime since you were in this
last era that ended you were onthe right path because it ended,
and now you are moving intothis new era of just really
(57:08):
exciting, wonderful things, andI'm so excited to see how it all
develops and builds and justevolves, because you are going
to be able to just own this andthat's really cool.
Thanks, perfect.
Well, I'm so happy that we wereable to have the opportunity to
(57:33):
share a new era for you andyeah, I'm pumped.
Elyse Mankin (57:40):
Yeah, thank you so much, thank you.
Sarah Caminiti (57:49):
How cool is it that we got to see an era end
and a new one begin, and a newone.
That is so incredible for Elyseand I'm just so pumped for her.
Thank you so much for tuninginto today's episode of Epochal
Growth.
I really hope that you'reinspired by Alisa's insights on
how to turn support data intopowerful product innovations.
It's all about understandingyour customers and collaborating
across teams and using data todrive meaningful change, and one
of the best places to start isjust to be curious.
(58:15):
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe.
Please also leave us a reviewand share it with others who
might benefit.
And if you're around on FridaySeptember 13th, make sure that
you've RSVP'd to the masterclasson this very topic with the
wonderful Elyse Menken, but alsoOG podcast guest guest Sarah
(58:36):
Betts and Everlane's TJ Stein.
We are going to be deep, divinginto metrics and the power that
they hold, and I would love tosee you all there.
And remember, listeners, smallthings ignite change and you are
capable of so much more thanyou realize.
Thank you again for spendingtime with me.
(58:57):
Thank you so much to ElyseMenken for trusting me on her
very first podcast.
I'm Sarah Kameniti.
This is Epochal Growth.
Have a great day.
Hello listeners, welcome to Epochal Growth.
In today's episode, we'rediving into the world of
customer support and how it canbe a game changer for product
innovation.
Our guest, Elyse Menken, is anexpert in turning customer
feedback into actionableinsights that drive real change.
She'll share her top strategiesfor leveraging support data,
(00:31):
building cross-functionalcollaboration and creating
products that truly resonatewith your customers.
Whether you're in support,product development or just
looking to innovate, thisepisode is packed with valuable
takeaways.
Let's get started.
Thank you for coming here andyour time for your first podcast
(00:53):
, my very first one.
Elyse Mankin (00:55):
I can't wait.
Sarah Caminiti (00:57):
It's going to be good.
I was looking through yourLinkedIn and you have been doing
this for a long time, but youstarted in marketing.
I did yeah.
Elyse Mankin (01:09):
Yeah, I, you know, went to business school and was
like I don't, what are theseemphases?
I don't know.
I guess I'll pick marketing.
And yeah, I got a job as amarketing assistant out of
college and then scaled up tothe marketing manager and
realized that is not the way mybrain works at all.
(01:30):
No, why, not, um, it just youknow, and maybe it was the, it
was the type of work that I wasdoing there, but it just doesn't
, it doesn't feed my soul, it'sit's, it's too far away from the
customer for me.
Um, you know, at least the typeof work that I was doing there,
which was very much like SEObased.
(01:50):
I was doing their emailcampaigns.
Um, you know, I I wasn't, Ireally wasn't in a customer
facing role and it it kind oftook me a couple of iterations
of of work after that to reallyrealize, like, no, I like to be
right in front of the customerand I like to be talking to you
know, the people who are usingour, you know tools or or
(02:11):
whatever it is, um, you know,for the company that I'm working
for.
So, um, yeah, I kind of justslowly found my way into account
management from there and theninto, like, technical customer
support and, um, I used HelpScout at my previous company,
which is how I kind of cameacross their blog and fangirled
for many years, very, very hard,and eventually, yeah, I found
(02:34):
my way onto the support teamthere and grew quite a bit over
those.
Sarah Caminiti (02:39):
What seven and a half years or so it's a long
time to be at a place and youbuilt something so cool for
yourself.
I was looking at like thetrajectory and like you should
be really proud of yourself.
That is a cool story that yourjob history.
Thank you.
Elyse Mankin (02:59):
Thank you.
Yeah, it was a really fun ride,I, you know, and it really
honestly happened quiteorganically over there.
When I joined the team, I likekind of had this interest in
product and my manager at thetime was, like, well, we'll get
you in front of like some of theproduct projects, see, you know
how you like it from a supportperspective and you know, we'll
kind of just like see whatdevelops out of there.
(03:20):
And you know, we'll kind ofjust like see what develops out
of there.
And through like starting todip my toes in those waters, I
realized that there was justthis huge gap or huge need to
like really bridge the supportand the product teams together
in just a more meaningful way.
It's not like we didn't talk toeach other, we did, but you
(03:41):
know, there was just more to gothere in terms of like really
creating a cool partnership tosupport customers in a deeper
way.
So, um, yeah, I'm really proudof of the way that the team was
built and just all of the coolthings they were able to
accomplish um, over, you know,during my time there was, it was
a really it was a really funride.
Sarah Caminiti (04:01):
That's so special.
That's so special and you hadsuch a huge part in it, and now
it's a perfect time for thesesorts of conversations, with the
history that you've had and theknowledge that you've been able
to gather over the years,because finally people are being
more vocal about it.
(04:21):
People are being more vocalabout it Finally.
They're like accepting that allthe stuff they've been hearing
quietly you know the whispersabout over the years are
thinking maybe this couldactually be a way to go.
You're coming in and it's likeno, no, really like I've been
doing this for years and this iswhy it's so important.
Elyse Mankin (04:41):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think too, just it's
an interesting time and supportum, just generally speaking,
with all of the evolution that'shappening.
You know, I know AI is the bigbuzzword right now, but it's
it's not something to be takenlightly either.
I mean, if you can implement AIin a way that makes sense for
your customers number one, uh,and it's still providing a
(05:02):
really good experience for them.
But number two is alsounlocking, maybe, some capacity
for your team.
You get to get really creativein how you want to support your
customers in a deeper, morerobust, more helpful way, and
that could include the productarm, it could include education,
it could include team training.
There's so many things that youcan do and that's what gets me
excited.
It's like, okay, how can?
(05:22):
It could include team training.
There's so many things that youcan do and that's what gets me
excited.
It's like, okay, how can we nowtake all of these tools and all
of this you know, um, thisevolution that's in front of us,
and use it in like a really fun, creative way to have a deeper
impact for your customers andfor your business?
Sarah Caminiti (05:38):
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
And the opportunity that AI hasprovided more, and the
opportunity that AI has providedfor acknowledging the
incredibly intelligent folksthat live and support, but also
giving them the opportunity toacknowledge it themselves,
because they're not so busy justtrying to put out all the fires
that they have to put out allthe time makes for very cool
(06:03):
conversations that you wouldn'thave been able to have otherwise
, yeah, I agree A hundredpercent.
Yeah, it's a cool time.
It's a cool time.
So before we dive in, dive in,I want you to have a chance to
introduce yourself in any waythat you would like to introduce
yourself.
So, Elyse, nice to meet you.
Elyse Mankin (06:26):
Yes, yes, Thank you for having me.
Yeah, no, it's a pleasure to behere.
First podcast I am.
Yeah, I was thinking about mybio.
I've been in support customerservice really since my very
first job hosting birthdayparties at my local ice rink, so
you know most.
Previously I was the directorof product support at Help Scout
, where I built and scaled thevoice of customer support
(06:50):
readiness and our documentationfunctions on our support team.
Yeah, I'm just really excitedto talk about all the ways
support can be a really bigvalue add for customers and for
your business.
Sarah Caminiti (07:01):
I am so pumped that this is what we're going to
be talking about, because thisis the opportunity right now for
folks in support to be aware ofall of the different areas that
they can use what they have andgrow what they have and build
(07:22):
it, because one of the biggeststruggles in support is you
don't know what you don't knowuntil it's too late.
And that goes for data, butthat also goes for sharing
information within your companyand getting you that seat at the
table.
If you don't know what you'resupposed to provide, then how
(07:43):
are you supposed to do it?
And all of the information thatwe're going to be chatting
about today sets a foundation,because it gives you that
baseline to be successful and tobe confident when you're going
into those spaces.
So thank you for choosing thisas your area of focus, and I'm
(08:11):
so excited to learn from you,because there's a lot to know
about the value add factor ofsupport and how that can impact
your business in atransformative way.
Elyse Mankin (08:16):
Yeah, it's a really cool one.
Lots to talk about there, forsure.
Sarah Caminiti (08:21):
Yes, yeah, before the podcast, we go over
some things and I have thiswhole list that AI generates and
, oh my goodness, folkslistening, there was a list and
it was robust.
Each one could have been like aseven hour conversation in and
of itself.
So we'll try to keep this as uh, as focused and uh as we can,
(08:43):
without, you know, having toorder takeout for dinner because
we've been here for so long.
But one of the first things Iwant to know, Elyse, is what was
your introduction to the valuethat lived within the data and
support?
Elyse Mankin (08:58):
That's a really yeah, that's a good question.
You know, I think when I thinkof value add and the way that I
was really introduced to it,honestly it started with like a
single conversation in trying tofigure out.
You know, okay, there's thisquestion in front of me, right,
I need to answer the questionfor the customer, but how can I
support them, like even furtherfrom that one customer and
thinking like outside of youknow, what are they immediately
(09:21):
asking me and how can I supportmaybe the things on the fringes
there, just to give them thenext steps that they might run
into?
And if you, you really takethat idea of thinking beyond the
ticket and scale that up to OK,what about now beyond the queue
?
I know that there's all thesethings happening in here.
What are they, why are theyhappening and what can I do
(09:44):
about it?
Um, you know that to me hasalways been just like a really
satisfying or interestingquestion to ask Um, because
there's so much within support,within your direct control, that
you can really move needles onUm and you have a lot of wiggle
room within the support umbrellato again like just really get
(10:06):
creative with how you want to bea value add to your customer,
and it starts with your data.
It starts with reallyunderstanding what are customers
saying, what are they coming toyou with, what are the problems
that they're presenting yourteam with, and how can we solve
those in a scalable way for themteam with and how can we solve
(10:28):
those in a scalable way for them.
Sarah Caminiti (10:29):
Yeah, it's true, that is where you have to start
.
You have to start actuallygiving yourself the time to
analyze the individual questions.
You have to invest in the timefor QA and using it.
Not necessarily, I mean, you'regoing to learn things about how
the agents are performing justby being in the space.
But if the goal and the purposeof that time is not to
(10:51):
scrutinize comma usage butinstead to really drill down,
what was that one reason thatthis person was no longer able
to continue independently, andhow does that impact their
journey?
Because what's the one thingthat we know about support?
If one person writes in, therewere tons of other folks that
(11:13):
kept it to themselves and didnot share the information.
Elyse Mankin (11:17):
It's that funnel right.
You know you have all of yourusers and customers at the top
and you know only a certain,very small usually percentage
are writing in about whateverchallenges in front of them.
So yeah, I mean, if you cantake that challenge or those
trends and extrapolate it, youknow, even with, like your
product usage data, that can bea really compelling story to
(11:37):
tell If you're advocating forchange or even if you're just
advocating to take on specialprojects within the support team
, you can kind of really showthat there's deeper impact here
beyond you know maybe 5% of yourcustomers asking about a
certain thing that product usagedata can be really helpful for
just telling that story in adeeper way.
Sarah Caminiti (11:59):
What was the best way, when you were trying
to figure out how to present thedata to other teams whether it
be higher up in leadership orsharing it with the product team
to explain why this is soimportant to focus on or to
tweak?
How were you successful?
Elyse Mankin (12:21):
There's no, like you know, magic key here for
this.
I think that it really justcomes down to really deeply
knowing your people and alsoshowing your work to a degree so
you know if you were trying toadvocate outside of the support
department where you might need,you know, buy in from
leadership or buy in from otherdepartments.
(12:42):
Relationship building here iskey.
Really kind of taking the timeto get to know those leaders,
get to know the people who youmight want to work with or ask
for resources from, is reallycritical.
And in secondary to that, ormaybe in tandem to that, is
really deeply understanding howthey like to receive information
(13:05):
, what is important to them.
You have to be able to speaktheir language.
So, whether that's your revenuedepartment has certain revenue
goals that they want to hit andmaybe you have something that
could help them with that, speakin those languages and really
make sure that you are tyingyour ask or what you are
advocating for into what thosefolks care about at the time.
(13:28):
And the same can be said foryour organizational goals too.
I think it's really critical,particularly if you're trying to
make any like really big betsor really advocate for like
large changes, to tie that intoyour org goals.
So if, that is, you're alltrying to reduce churn, that is
like the number one thing you'refocused on right now.
You should be looking at yourtrends through that lens so that
(13:49):
you can really say like theseare like the top three things
that I think we could do toreally, you know, reduce our
churn amount.
And here's why.
And if you can speak to thoseyou know, to those goals and,
again, really knowing yourpeople and how they, how they
like to receive information.
Is it a report?
Is it a pitch deck?
(14:09):
Is it?
Do they want all the context?
Do they want the bare bones?
You know these are all reallyimportant questions to ask and
really deeply understand so thatyou can make sure that you're
doing everything you can to beheard.
Is really what it comes down to?
You can to be heard.
Is really what it comes down to.
And then, equally important too, is just showing your work also
(14:33):
in the same languages thatmakes sense to those people and
tying up to those business goals.
Sarah Caminiti (14:35):
That's such fantastic advice.
It's one of the great gifts ofbeing a support professional is
the generalist mentality whenyou are in a space and your
ability to look at things fromother people's perspectives, and
that is such a that is themagic ticket to to figuring out
(14:57):
how to be all of these differentthings for so many different
people, but in a way that's notoverwhelming.
You don't need to be an expert.
You don't need to take courseson SEO or marketing.
They are experts for a reasonand you're there to aid in their
(15:20):
success and the customer'ssuccess and the company's
success.
How often did you find yourselfchecking in with these
different departments to makesure that your approach was
still the best way to move?
Elyse Mankin (15:32):
forward Regularly.
I mean, I think things change,people change, focuses change,
right.
I think that identifying whoyour main partners are is really
important and then setting up aregular sync For me with our
product managers.
I always had like a monthlyone-on-one where we would check
in on all of the things onroadmap, on feedback, on what
(15:55):
we're hearing from customers.
You know, how is this workingfor everyone?
All of those questions are allreally important and I think,
particularly with your closestpartners, just making sure that
you are touching base at acadence that makes sense to you
is really important, just tomake sure everyone is staying on
the same page and you're justworking the most efficiently
(16:15):
together.
That's really what it's aboutis how can we, how can we all
support each other in the bestway right now?
What is really working for usand what might we need to change
or adjust?
Sarah Caminiti (16:26):
Yeah, I love that point because working
efficiently, especially onsmaller teams or teams that are
investigating different ways todo things.
Time is everything and if youcan show the others that are in
the other departments, I'm nothere to waste your time, I'm
here to really just fine tunethis so that we can make the
(16:47):
biggest impact together.
Then it'll be so much easier togo into the next stage of
things together, because you'vecreated that foundation.
Elyse Mankin (16:57):
Yep, and I think, really, just listening to your
team on that too, you know, atleast for me, they were in so
many other spaces that I wasn't.
So, you know, no idea is a badidea, and I always like to tell
them nothing is written in stonehere.
Well, we don't want to bechanging things constantly,
right, like there is theopposite end of the spectrum.
That is a challenge.
You know, if you're seeingchallenges or problems pop up or
(17:19):
you think there's a better wayto do something, let's talk
about it and try it.
And you know, I think that'sequally important for baking
into the process, just to makesure that, again, we are all
working as effectively aspossible together.
Sarah Caminiti (17:32):
I love that you did that.
That is such an important thing.
As a leader, you have to createa space where people are
allowed to investigate and tryand fail sometimes, but in a way
that is a learning experiencefor everybody.
Elyse Mankin (17:49):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I feel like that's reallyfoundational, particularly with
this concept of value add insupport.
It's that you know, hiring forand instilling a very healthy
sense of curiosity in your team,making it safe to fail and
really empowering them to trydifferent things Right, like you
know, be clear on what you wantto try to accomplish and what
maybe those success measures are.
(18:09):
But go try it and, you know,hopefully it works and we can
really show that success story.
But you know, if it doesn't, ifwe run into challenges or
roadblocks, for any, you knowany reason, we just talk about
it, we learn from it and we moveon and you know it's all a
learning experience.
Sarah Caminiti (18:27):
It is, and every person that's on your team,
every person really within thecompany, represents some sort of
customer that's using yourservice.
And so taking all of thosedifferent ideas instead of
creating a team where everybodythinks the same way, operates
the same way, put such adisadvantage on communication
with your customer, and thatallows for so much more value to
(18:50):
them, because then the customerthemselves feel safe to ask
those questions and to bringthem to you.
How did you feel with thecustomer when you started to
really see a change with productdevelopment that was
customer-based and database andand started to see the impact
that this was having within thecustomer experience and also
(19:12):
within the business side ofthings?
How did you communicate thiswith the customer?
Elyse Mankin (19:17):
That's a good question.
You know, on the backend, likewith our processes and our the
team that we really kind ofcreated, we did a couple of you
know more like inside scoop ofhelp scout, like blog posts that
we talked about the team, butfor us in, in communicating like
value to customers, it justreally comes down to being
(19:38):
consistent and closing thoseloops Right.
So, whether it was like a bugthat we advocated for or, you
know, like a small improvement,we have a whole follow up
process where, you know, everyrequest from a customer is
attached to a JIRA ticket ifit's like a broken thing or a
net new thing that they'reasking for.
So when those things areimplemented and put into
(20:00):
production, the support teamfollows up on them immediately.
It could be a five-year-oldticket that like was this random
little thing that they wanted?
But you know, we think it'sreally important to just really
close that loop for anyone who'srequested.
Who knows, maybe they movedaway from the platform, you know
, a while ago, but this was thething they really wanted and it
(20:21):
could bring them back.
I just think it's a really nicelike delight or touch on on top
of the cake of you know, reallykind of just showing we are
listening, we hear you and theseare the things that we are
doing to build the product.
Sarah Caminiti (20:34):
That is such an it's a really valuable thing
that you can do and it doesn'ttake time, it doesn't?
Elyse Mankin (20:38):
I mean, it does take a little bit of time, but a
little bit, yeah, you canautomate it for the most part
Use your workflows, use yourmacros, I mean, you know it's
quite simple as long as you havethe infrastructure behind it.
Sarah Caminiti (20:49):
No, definitely, Because I mean, the customers
want to feel like they're partof the journey and even if it
was something from five yearsago, I almost feel like those
five-year-old ones are the bestones, because then they know
okay, not only do they notforget, but they were being
honest with me when they saidthis isn't something that's on
(21:11):
the roadmap for right now, butit is something that we're going
to look into and, should it besomething that we take on, we
will let you know.
And you did.
You followed through.
Elyse Mankin (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, they are fun.
Yeah, it's the.
Oh my gosh, I couldn't.
I totally forgot.
I asked about this, or like Iwasn't expecting a response.
You know three years later, butthis is so cool, thank you, and
they're fun conversations Ilove it.
Sarah Caminiti (21:36):
What was the?
So, now that there's going tobe such a shift, there's going
to be, there is such a shift intalking about the value piece of
support and the opportunitieswithin support, what have you
been seeing in any sort of spaceblogs, linkedin, social media,
folks that you follow um, that'sthat really is hitting the nail
(22:00):
on the head.
And are there things thatyou're seeing that's kind of
like a game of telephone whereit's just getting a little bit
muddied?
Elyse Mankin (22:08):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I I think just being really thefolks who are just being very
vocal and very clear with theirimpact is where, like, yeah,
we're hitting the nail on thehead.
You know value add.
When I think of value add, Ithink of this is a way to really
(22:30):
like amplify supportsuperpowers.
It's getting very clear of,like, what is that for your team
?
They're your product experts.
They are your deep, deep, deepproblem solvers or deep
researchers and how can wereally amplify you know those
amazing skills to not onlyimpact you know the support team
directly and the work thatthey're doing, but to have
(22:52):
impact on your customers, tohave impact on the business and
really just be very transparentin your organization around that
work and what that means.
I think getting clear on the whyit's important is critical
because if without the why, Ithink it just muddies the waters
quite a bit and it begs thequestion of like, well, if we
(23:13):
don't understand the why, thenwhat are we doing?
And you know what?
Why are we spending this time?
Why are we spending this moneyon whatever project or
initiative?
This is so really reallyclearly communicating that why I
think is quite critical.
We are all very happy to help,very happy to step in Um, but it
(23:40):
can create a situation where,like, roles and responsibilities
get a little unclear, um,particularly cross-functional or
cross team initiatives orprojects.
So you know, I think justgetting very clear of you know
where, where are these roles,who's responsible for what um
and making sure you have buy-infrom you know anyone on the team
or any stakeholders ahead of aproject or an initiative,
starting is really critical formaking sure that things are as
(24:04):
clear as possible and then wecan really speak to impact in a
very clear, concise way.
Sarah Caminiti (24:11):
Yeah, no, that's the transparency piece of it
all is something that I'mrealizing with all these
wonderful conversations that I'mhaving with folks in the
support world and CX in general.
That is how you can make adifference.
There's really no reason not tobe transparent, because
(24:33):
everybody is a part of this withyou.
Everybody is a smart, capablehuman being that's able to
process information in in a goodway, and and when you start
making assumptions about howthey're going to take
information or what they'regoing to pull from it, or
(24:53):
they're not, they're not readyfor this.
How do you know?
How do you know?
You never tried, um, so yeah,well, you never know.
Elyse Mankin (25:01):
Also, you know if we're not talking about what
we're focusing on or what trendswe're seeing or what we're
thinking about as leaders.
You know you.
You just don't know whatsomeone else in another
department is thinking about.
Maybe they are thinking aboutthe exact same thing or seeing
something very similar thatcould be very complimentary
towards you know, gettingsomething done or moving like a
very specific impactful needlefor the business.
(25:21):
So, yeah, I just think it'sreally critical to talk about
the things that you're seeing,the things you're focusing on,
what you're thinking about, withall of your partners across the
org.
Sarah Caminiti (25:32):
When you're working with a team, when you're
leading a team and you'retrying, you're noticing this
trend is happening all the timeand it's coming in so many
different ways, but it's a it'sa big undertaking and you're
presenting the informationyou're advocating for the
customer.
You're you're really trying topaint that clear picture and
(25:54):
it's, there's not any movement.
Um how, how does that work foryou and your team?
Elyse Mankin (26:03):
Yeah, you know, I think that's the age old uh
support conundrum um is the.
You know, you see these thingsso clearly, right, um, but for
one reason or another, uh,they're, they're not prioritized
or they're not moved on asquickly as you would like.
I think getting very clearagain with what metrics count in
(26:25):
this situation is important.
If it's something that isbroken, that needs to be fixed,
or something that customers arereally tripping over and getting
very confused which stillcounts in that broken bucket for
me, and getting very confused,which still counts in, like that
broken bucket for me, I thinkgetting very clear of, like,
what is the cost to that is veryhelpful not only to customers
(26:46):
but to the support team as well.
You know, not all bugs arecreated equally.
Some are, like, verystraightforward and can be
pushed a little bit, just in thegrand scheme of things.
But if they're really kind ofcreating the situation where
customers are, you know, notable to do what they need to do
in the product, maybe they'regetting completely thrown off
the path of what they'reintending to do.
Maybe there's a lot of you know, heavy support overhead in
(27:08):
supporting this bug.
They have to go in and fixsomething manually or like they
really have to like handholdcustomers in a very deep way
through this.
Getting very clear andcommunicating that in a concise
way is critical.
And then I think too, just kindof taking fresh eyes at the
situation as well.
I'm remembering an issue that wehad a few years ago that evaded
(27:33):
all of us.
We could not figure it out forthe life of us.
I mean, we had engineering,support, product people,
everyone looking at this and waslike we can't figure it out, I
have no idea.
And the trend just kept growing.
Customers were so unhappy andit just kind of felt like it was
going to defeat us to a degree.
But taking a fresh look at it,um, one of us was able to figure
(27:58):
out like wait a minute, there'sa common thread here, uh, with
another feature in the platformand it turned out that like that
was the root of the bug.
And so just kind of taking likea fresh perspective, like just
kind of, you know, removing allof the maybe assumptions or, you
know, preconceived ideas thatyou have about a situation as
much as you can from your mind,to take like a very fresh look
(28:19):
at something.
I think that is also the valuethat can't be understated or
bringing someone in fresh.
They can look at it from adifferent perspective.
Sarah Caminiti (28:28):
Definitely.
I mean, the fresh eyes issometimes the biggest superpower
that you can throw at something.
It goes in so many differentways, but you have to remember.
Elyse Mankin (28:41):
It seems so simple .
It does A lot of things do seemso simple.
Sarah Caminiti (28:47):
But, dang, is it effective?
Yes, agreed, yeah, how often doyou find yourself trying to
find fresh pairs of eyes to lookat things?
From documentation, it's alwayshelpful.
Elyse Mankin (29:01):
Honestly, I mean, I can't really think of a
situation where it's not helpful, whether it's like a proofread
right, just to like make surethat this looks good, or, you
know, like I'm really likehitting my head against the wall
trying to figure out what'shappening here and, you know,
bringing in that freshperspective even when talking to
(29:23):
customers.
We know that, you know, pullingjust a different voice into the
conversation can be like thehelpful, like reset that you
need in a situation.
So, yeah, I I think it'scritical, you know, just to
really build that community,that collaboration within your
team.
Sarah Caminiti (29:35):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
So you've been working in theproduct support area for a while
now.
How does that differ from otherareas of support?
Elyse Mankin (29:46):
Yeah, so to me it is just part and parcel of it.
So the product support team atHelp Scout I think it is still
very critical that those folkswho are in maybe more of like
the value add focuses as theirmain priority are still in the
queue.
They are work up into the queue25 to 50% of their time.
(30:06):
For me, I think it is hard toadvocate for customers if you
don't really deeply understandthem, how they use the product,
how they talk about it, howeverything is interconnected and
you know there is a very uniquesuperpower with support teams
(30:27):
in very deeply understandingthis and particularly teams that
are using their platform aswell, using it and supporting it
at the same time.
It's just really, reallycritical to be talking to your
customers as well.
So I think of them half asfrontline, but half the value
(30:47):
add functions as well, and theintersection to me is very
interesting and I think itcreates for not only like a
really interesting role andinteresting work, but just a
lovely way to improve thecustomer experience.
Sarah Caminiti (31:05):
It really does.
It's a bridge.
It's a bridge that wasn't therebefore, and it's really cool to
see that happening more oftenwithin the CX space.
Elyse Mankin (31:20):
Yeah, it's a fun way to create some growth paths
for your team as well.
Right, you know whether itwhether you make a dedicated
role for it, or maybe it's justyou know special initiatives
that you're doing or specialprojects, and this goes beyond.
You know just the, the productarm of support as well.
It could be documentation, itcould be education, training
there's a number of things thatyou can do, but it creates that
(31:44):
opportunity for time out of thequeue and time to just reset a
little bit and have impact in adeeper, different but still very
like support centric way.
Sarah Caminiti (31:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
There's so many differentcorners of support and allowing
space to explore those and andreally lean into folks areas of
excitement or expertise and letthem shine.
You got to do that as a leader.
Elyse Mankin (32:12):
Yep, yeah, Stretch your legs.
Stretch your wings Exactly Forfor you, throughout your legs.
Sarah Caminiti (32:17):
Stretch your wings Exactly For you.
Throughout your career, you'vestarted in one space, discovered
support and built a whole newcorner of support to lead and to
grow.
What are the superpowers thatyou found for yourself within
that time?
(32:37):
I think?
Elyse Mankin (32:38):
yeah, it comes back to curiosity and really
just relationship building.
For me, I think those two arereally important.
I've also been thinking quite abit about just like horizontal
knowledge and, really, to yourpoint, you don't have to be a
specialist in marketing or inrevenue or in product to have
(33:00):
impact in all of those areas,but you have to be curious about
them and you have to be open tolearning about them.
And you know, having that beingable to work broadly across
different functions in differentdepartments in different
(33:20):
departments, but also specializein your vertical, I think is a
really powerful way to work anda really powerful way to have
impact.
And one way that you do that isthrough relationship building.
Right, go meet a friend atretreat or in the office for
marketing and have them talkabout a project that they're
working on.
It's a really great way to oneget to know people.
Have them talk about a projectthat they're working on.
It's a really great way to oneget to know people.
But two, learn from them, learnwhat they're focused on, learn
(33:41):
what they maybe challenges thatthey're running into or concerns
that they have.
It's a fun, collaborative wayto just learn about the
organization and about yourpeople and you can use that for
your growth.
You can get curious about it.
You can start to think aboutways to piece the puzzle pieces
together.
(34:01):
If you are seeing one specifictrend in the support queue I bet
you it's not, you're not on anisland with it particularly if
you have other customer facingteams.
So you know, how can you thentie those pieces together in a
way that it makes an interestingnarrative for the company and
that all comes down torelationship building and, just
(34:24):
yeah, having your people in theorg that you can talk to and you
can lean on and validate yourideas with.
Sarah Caminiti (34:31):
Yeah, no, that's true.
That's it's validating theideas.
I love that you said that,because it's not something that
people bring up a lot and thepower that that has of
empowering people to feelconfident enough to explore
these ideas is one of thegreatest gifts that you can give
(34:52):
your team as a leader topromote that and nurture that.
Because how many times have wegotten in our own head or how
many times have we startedlooking at things and thought,
no, no, no, somebody tried thisand it failed.
But really that's not the case,or it was years ago.
Elyse Mankin (35:14):
Right, right, well , and I think it also just comes
down to prioritization too.
Right there, there's aninfinite number of things that
we could be doing, but we do nothave the time or, you know, the
hands to do everything all atonce.
So, you know, having thosepeople that you can validate
your ideas against also justhelps with prioritization of
(35:35):
okay, are you seeing this thingover here?
Is it as big of a problem oropportunity as I think it is?
What do you think about this?
Right, and it really kind ofhelps you narrow down what you
could be focusing on at anygiven time.
And then empowering your teamsto go run after that thing is
also just, yeah, very important.
Sarah Caminiti (35:54):
Giving them the space to any autonomy to to just
do the work yeah for sure,definitely the um, the space is
needed, the space, the space tobe able to think thoughtfully
about things, the space to toreally take ownership for things
.
Um, and and and just explore,because support is a very vast
(36:17):
space and there's always a lotof other things that we could be
doing.
There's always a lot of talkabout always use our help for
something or something else weneed to chase down.
And, throughout your career,what have you found to be the
ways that you allow this foryour team, like, how do you make
(36:41):
it happen?
Elyse Mankin (36:43):
Yeah, Again, I think it gets back into like
roles and responsibilities andjust having those conversations
around what is on your plate andhow can I best support you.
You know I want to always makesure that the role feels
sustainable.
You know we might go throughheavy periods of, you know, just
a lot going on and we got to dothe things.
(37:04):
But if we can roll out of themin a way that feels good to
everyone, that is always my goaland it starts with just having
a conversation with your teamand with your people around
what's on your plate.
Are those really the mostimportant things to be working
on, or is there a way that I canhelp step in?
(37:28):
Can we delegate Really justknowing what's happening for
them, particularly in across-functional team?
Again, they're in so many spacesthat I am not so things come at
your players from all of thesedifferent corners of the
business.
So for me it's just been veryimportant to deeply understand
(37:48):
what they're focusing on, wherethey want to focus and where
they see opportunities, and thenjust creating that space for
them and supporting them in it.
If that comes down to saying,okay, we're going to say no to
anything else that comes in forthe next, you know, two weeks,
you can go heads down on this,this project.
You've got my support, I've gotyour back.
Go for it.
We'll kind of, you know, put onon, do not disturb for you for
(38:11):
a little bit, and you know, justsupporting them through that
that's awesome, and you knowjust supporting them through.
Sarah Caminiti (38:17):
That.
That's awesome.
That's awesome With your careerand the trajectory that you've
taken.
Do you see yourself staying ina product focused support space,
or are you thinking about waysthat those skills that you've
acquired could could work in inother areas?
Elyse Mankin (38:37):
Yeah, I, they could definitely work in other
areas.
Yeah, they could definitelywork in other areas.
When I think about thetrajectory of my career, I am
really just so interested inthat support intersection of all
of the functions in a businessand how can we leverage all of
the things that support isamazing at to have that deeper
(38:59):
impact.
So product is my, is a passion.
It always has been, and I, youknow, again, when I started this
role, I was like I want to be aproduct manager one day.
I think that's, that would belovely.
And you know, as I built andscaled the team, I really
realized sports, my home, that'swhere I want to be and it's
(39:20):
just, it's really interesting tothink about all of the ways
that we can leverage thoseskills, leverage the
relationships, leverage the datafrom your support queue to
figure out how to make thecustomer experience better, and
that's not isolated to product.
That is certainly one of thebigger ones, especially in any
(39:42):
product-led company.
But there's a million and oneways that you can go about
bettering things for yourcustomers.
And, like that's what gets meexcited is how can we really
leverage our team, leverage whatwe're hearing from customers,
leverage the tools, theresources available to us to
just make things better and tomake you know, make positive
(40:03):
impact for the people that wesupport and for the orgs that we
work for.
Sarah Caminiti (40:08):
Positive impact, that's yeah that's the best way
to make that change.
I mean, it's planting the seed,it's seeing what happens and
it's allowing it to show itselfin different ways.
And it's obvious that you areable to do that by creating that
sort of a space within theproduct connection of support.
(40:28):
And it's not an easy task tobridge that, that space from
support to product, because forso long they've been islands,
that space from support toproduct because for so long
they've been islands.
Elyse Mankin (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, really.
And you know it's, it's.
Yeah, I've been lucky to haveproduct leaders who were nothing
short of amazing in insupporting this bridge being
built.
And you know, it's just, it ismission, it is mission, mission
critical, excuse me, I think,for you know, building a truly
(41:03):
customer centric organization.
There's just so much knowledgeand so much information in your,
in your support queue that ifyou're not extracting that, not
only for your own use withinsupport right but to all of the
other places in the org thatshould be aware of what's
(41:24):
happening Um, those kinds ofgolden nuggets just die on the
vine and um, yeah, it's, it'sjust, yeah, it's, it's.
It's an easy way to reallyinstill customer centricity into
your org by reporting out whatyou're hearing and building
those bridges.
Sarah Caminiti (41:44):
Yeah, that's true.
I mean it's not.
If you have the data, you knowwhat to look for, you know what
to you know how to ask thosequestions to the customer.
If you need to get a little bitmore information or put
yourself in their shoes, thenthen it's.
It's just communication afterthat and and and.
Sometimes you're going to win,sometimes you're going to lose,
(42:06):
but at least if you continue tohave those conversations,
there's going to be some winsthat that make it all worthwhile
.
Elyse Mankin (42:14):
Yeah, and you know , I think reporting back to the
support team on that is equallycritical, just kind of closing
the loop right.
You know to your point,sometimes what you're advocating
for will get prioritized,sometimes it won't, but in those
won't cases for me it's soimportant to understand the why
and have those conversationswith the other stakeholders to
(42:35):
really get into the nitty grittyof okay, understood, we'll work
on these things.
You know, first and foremost,but what is the why?
What are we hoping to gain fromthat?
You know what's the progress onthose projects and really kind
of communicating it and closingthat two way loop with your
support team helps get buy in,helps them understand.
(42:56):
You know this might be a reallybig pain for us but if we're
thinking big picture andholistically throughout the
organization, there's actually acouple of other even bigger
pains that we think could move.
You know very specific needlesfor the business and that's why
we're going to prioritize, youknow, project A and B over the
one that we, you know, arereally advocating for, not to
(43:16):
say that we won't do it, it'sjust not quite the right time
for it.
And then keeping them in theloop of those conversations is
an important and impactful wayto just keep them connected to
the areas of the business and,you know, reduce the like island
feeling that the support queuecan sometimes be feeling that
(43:38):
the support cue can sometimes beyeah, no.
Sarah Caminiti (43:39):
Having those conversations goes back to
transparency.
If you keep to yourself thosedetails that you were able to
grab from the other departmentsas to why this isn't going to be
moving forward, and you just goback to them and say no, sorry,
it's so dissatisfying, right,and it's, it's, it's, it's
almost demoralizing of like, oh,but like we see these things so
(44:00):
clearly, what do you mean?
Elyse Mankin (44:02):
we're not gonna do it?
Um, you know the the no withoutthe why is?
Uh, it's hard, it's just plainhard.
And support, um, particularlywhen you, you hear, you know,
out of all the conversationsyou're having every single day
you might hear this five, 10, 20times and to feel like, you
know, support can be a bit of ablack hole without that.
(44:22):
Why, from the rest of the org?
Sarah Caminiti (44:24):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, so much it's.
It can be really frustrating,and especially when you're
you're in IC and you're you're,you think that you've you've
really given everything that youcan to drive this home and
you're going back to thosecustomers over and over and over
again, it makes the days suckbecause there's nothing you
(44:47):
could do.
But having a leader like you,that makes it a point to not
accept just an empty no and thenbring that back to the team and
say you know what?
We gave all of the informationthat we could and we're going to
(45:09):
revisit it in this amount oftime Once, once we're able to
finish these things, focus onthese things.
It wasn't a hard.
No, let's take it as a pause.
Even if it was a hard, no,always take it as a pause.
Elyse Mankin (45:24):
Yeah, again, nothing is ever written in stone
, ever.
You know you as a business, youcan make a pivot every single
day.
There's, you know, it's justdepending, depending on new
information, um, and, and whatis what is really happening with
customers?
And, um, yeah, it comes justdown to that clear communication
and, as you are getting newinformation, or maybe as urgency
(45:46):
, uh, is increasing from thecustomer perspective, advocating
for that and continuing to havethe conversation.
Um, you know, just because itwas a no yesterday does not mean
that it's a no a week from now,or with 50 more customers
reporting it, or new informationthat you've discovered from a
customer.
It's really just aboutcontinuing to be transparent,
(46:08):
continuing to beat on the drumsthat are important and are
causing trends and causingcustomers to write in.
Um, you'll get there eventually.
You will.
Uh, and then helping the teamunderstand the why in the
interim is important, and I alsothink it's important too to say
, okay, well, maybe this onething isn't being prioritized
right this second, but are thereother things that we could do?
(46:30):
That still feel really good, um, and still feel like we are
having that positive impact inthe areas that we really want to
be driving change.
Sarah Caminiti (46:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
There's so many things that youcan do within support.
There's so many things that youcan start to pick away at using
resources, resources from otherteams that that also are
excited to help with with thisin whatever way that they can.
I think one of the biggeststruggles of a lot of support
(47:01):
teams have is that connection tothe other departments and
especially with product beingkept in the loop through
everything and understanding thewhy.
Why did you only focus on thisone piece when really the bigger
picture is the only thing thatmatters?
And, uh, adding yourself andyour team to that whole journey
(47:24):
of product development?
Um, did that change drasticallyonce you were able to to create
the space?
Elyse Mankin (47:33):
Yeah, um, you know I, I remember if this was my
one of my like very firstproduct launches at help scout
is seven years ago or so.
Um, we launched a new featureand customers were asking us
questions about it that werelike wait a minute what it does,
what huh, and, like you know,no fault of anyone uh the
(47:53):
communication richness wasn'tthere yet, right?
And I think one of the reallycool things that I count as one
of the really big wins of thisteam is going through a really
heavy pricing migration, areally complex one.
That feels weird.
There's all these differentpaths that customers could be on
(48:14):
, weird.
There's all these differentpaths that, like, customers
could be on.
But the support team in ourlike team huddle coming back to
us and saying you know what thisfeels.
This feels hard, we will getthrough it, but I feel so
supported and I'm like I'm readyto talk to customers, I'm ready
to have these conversationswith all the resources you've
given us.
Like, I feel so empowered, Ifeel so ready to go, and all the
conversations I'm having withcustomers have been actually
(48:36):
pretty awesome through this veryhard thing, because we've taken
the time to really understandwhat is happening and what are
the options available tocustomers.
What are the options availableto your support team in terms of
escalation, just really takingthe time to deeply empower them
around something that could bechallenging or just cause a lot
(48:57):
of back and forth with customers.
We also do guest stars with ourproduct managers when we are
launching anything likerelatively large, and that's
been a really cool way toconnect the teams in a deeper
way and just continue thatrelationship so they're able to
come to our support teammeetings.
They talk about the why, theytalk about you know, any things
(49:20):
that they're still trying tovalidate within the product, or
they ask questions of you knowsupport team Like what do you
think about this feature or thisthing that we are still like
trying to figure out?
It's been a fun way to get ourICs involved in that
conversation too, but in like avery like lightweight, scalable
way.
Sarah Caminiti (49:41):
I love that idea we love guest stars.
Elyse Mankin (49:44):
Yes, yes, that's great.
Sarah Caminiti (49:47):
That's great, yeah, just make them feel
special too when they're comingto share the information.
Wow, no, I really I'm going totake that with me.
That one's a really good one,okay.
So one final question aboutthis is actually I've got two,
but the first of the final is soif someone is thinking about
(50:12):
this and they know they'reseeing it everywhere, but they
feel like they are so far behindbecause they didn't think about
this stuff two years ago, whatis the number one takeaway that
someone can take with them backto their space and start to
(50:33):
enter this world of a value addfor support?
Elyse Mankin (50:42):
One.
It's never too late, never,ever, ever too late to start
something like this.
And then I think of.
I think of two things.
The first is is understandingyour data.
It all starts with the data andit all starts with really
deeply understanding what ishappening for your customers and
how that's showing up in yoursupport queue and being able to
to quantify that Cause.
If we don't understand, like,what the biggest things are,
then how can we advocate for itRight?
(51:02):
Or how can we even internally,how do we prioritize the things
that could really have impact?
And then I think about thisconcept of like control versus
influence.
So what can I directly controlversus what can I influence?
And kind of bucketing up yourideas or your initiatives or
your projects into those twoideas can help people see
(51:26):
progress a little bit morequickly, especially if it's
something like directly withinyour control.
Start with a quick win and seewhat progress you're able to
make.
Report that back to your team.
It's a really fun way to show.
Hey, I know we had to manuallytag all of these conversations.
All right, we had to go throughsome digging in with customers
to really figure out what washappening here, but your work in
(51:48):
this area was able to achievethese very tangible things for
customers and for the business,and that can be a really fun
conversation to have with yourcustomer or with your team.
And, yeah, just just show thatyou can make progress relatively
quickly.
So those would be my my tips.
Sarah Caminiti (52:08):
Those are great.
Those are great.
I love that.
At the core of everything thatyou're doing, Elyse, and
everything that you were, you'vebuilt it is how can my team
feel successful and empowered?
Because that directlycorrelates to how that customer
is going to feel that they'retalking to.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely,absolutely.
(52:29):
So the real final questionbefore before what has been your
biggest proud win that you havehad?
Um could be in this department.
Uh, it could be in anything,but just in in your career.
What are?
What's something that alwaysstands out.
Elyse Mankin (52:50):
Oh, I'm just so proud of the team honestly, um I
it's been so much fun to seethem all grow and into like
their their horizontal moves aswell.
You know a couple of folksmoved into engineering, into
product, and it's been justhonestly a joy to see them get
to spread their wings and havelike really meaningful impact on
(53:13):
our support team, on ourproduct teams, for our customers
and then for themselves.
Whether that is you know doinglike a first conference talk or
you know making like a reallybig career move, I'm just so
freaking proud of them.
Sarah Caminiti (53:26):
Now, that's a good leader right there.
Elyse Mankin (53:28):
That's awesome.
Sarah Caminiti (53:30):
I'm so happy for the folks that have been able
to be blessed with you as theirguide.
Thank you, because this isspecial.
You're special and I hope thatanyone that listens to this is
able to understand the impactthat a supportive leader, a team
(53:53):
focused leader, has on what'spossible.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
So the real final question.
I like to end all of thesecalls with a moment to ask the
guest to tell me, either rightnow or heading into the future,
(54:15):
what era do you see yourself inor heading towards?
Elyse Mankin (54:20):
Yeah, for me.
I am actively in my embracingchange era.
Sarah Caminiti (54:28):
All right, listeners, I'm not one to
interrupt, especially rightbefore someone is about to go
into why they have just definedtheir era, but I have the best
reason.
You know how.
Last week, I talked a littlebit about the purpose of
defining eras and realizing thatgreat times, stressful times,
terrible times they don't lastforever.
(54:49):
Well, we have a real lifeexample.
When Elyse first recorded thisepisode back in May, she was in
a very different stage in herlife.
Her era was very, verydifferent, and I am so excited
for her to share with you whatthis new era is for her and why
that old era ended so that thisnew one could come in and take
(55:09):
over.
All right, let's get back intoit to it.
So, Elyse, when you were onhere last time, you had a very
different era because, like alleras, it came to an end, and now
you are transitioning into thisreally new, exciting time in
(55:29):
your life.
And so I got to know now thatit's been a couple of months and
things have changed in the bestpossible way.
What era are you in, Elyse?
Elyse Mankin (55:41):
Yeah, and this is like very timely for the time of
year and just all the newthings happening in my life
right now too.
But like I just feel, like I'min the like this is my year era,
like my birthday was lastweekend, I feel a new job and
all the things that just uh,yeah, I feel so, just grateful
and so excited to be where I'mat and, um, you know, I just
(56:03):
can't wait to see you know whatthose next trip around the sun
holds, and I think it's allgoing to be amazing things.
And uh, yeah, I'm just, I'mpumped.
Oh my gosh.
Sarah Caminiti (56:12):
Yeah Well, happy belated birthday.
I didn't know it was just yourbirthday.
Even better timing, you'reright, like the way that all of
it ended up playing out.
Yeah, it's just like theperfect setup for you to be
celebrating and kind of sit backand enjoy, like, all of this
(56:34):
greatness that's around you andcapitalize on it.
Elyse Mankin (56:37):
It's all just very synchronous.
There's a lot of good energyaround right now, so, yeah, just
feeling very, very grateful and, yeah, just so excited.
Sarah Caminiti (56:45):
Well, when the universe is telling you
something that you are on theright track, it shows you all of
these different signs to tellyou to keep going and keep doing
it.
And obviously, to tell you tokeep going and keep doing it and
obviously, this whole period oftime since you were in this
last era that ended you were onthe right path because it ended,
and now you are moving intothis new era of just really
(57:08):
exciting, wonderful things, andI'm so excited to see how it all
develops and builds and justevolves, because you are going
to be able to just own this andthat's really cool.
Thanks, perfect.
Well, I'm so happy that we wereable to have the opportunity to
(57:33):
share a new era for you andyeah, I'm pumped.
Elyse Mankin (57:40):
Yeah, thank you so much, thank you.
Sarah Caminiti (57:49):
How cool is it that we got to see an era end
and a new one begin, and a newone.
That is so incredible for Elyseand I'm just so pumped for her.
Thank you so much for tuninginto today's episode of Epochal
Growth.
I really hope that you'reinspired by Alisa's insights on
how to turn support data intopowerful product innovations.
It's all about understandingyour customers and collaborating
across teams and using data todrive meaningful change, and one
of the best places to start isjust to be curious.
(58:15):
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe.
Please also leave us a reviewand share it with others who
might benefit.
And if you're around on FridaySeptember 13th, make sure that
you've RSVP'd to the masterclasson this very topic with the
wonderful Elyse Menken, but alsoOG podcast guest guest Sarah
(58:36):
Betts and Everlane's TJ Stein.
We are going to be deep, divinginto metrics and the power that
they hold, and I would love tosee you all there.
And remember, listeners, smallthings ignite change and you are
capable of so much more thanyou realize.
Thank you again for spendingtime with me.
(58:57):
Thank you so much to ElyseMenken for trusting me on her
very first podcast.
I'm Sarah Kameniti.
This is Epochal Growth.
Have a great day.
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