Interview with Dr Tomas Teskey - www.insighttoequus.com - Equine Voices Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Ronnie (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Equine Voices.

(00:02):
My name is Ronnie.
I am so, so pleased to haveThomas back.
Now we tried to do thisinterview in summer when he was
in Europe, but he was gettingeaten alive by mosquitoes and we
had a few technical problemsthen.
Anyway, I shall bring Thomas inand he can introduce himself.
He's Dr.
Thomas Teske and his website isInsight to Equus.

(00:24):
He's a vet of medicine fromColorado State and he
specializes in equine podiatry.
2001.
I'll let Thomas come in andintroduce himself.
So without further ado, here heis.
Hi Thomas.

Tomas (00:42):
Hey, doing well.
So where to begin since I havebeen given full reigns to tell
you what I would like to tellyou.
Well, first of all, in themoment I drove up to a high spot
so I can get a good signalbecause I live pretty much.
In the center of the desert inArizona and central Arizona.
So I had to go up and find agood signal so I can do the

(01:06):
podcast with you in this talk,and I can look out and see where
my horses might be.
They might appear, they mightnot.
It's kind of interesting to beup here on the landscape doing
this instead of in the house orin the library or whatever, so
yeah, and.
You know, I was thinking aboutthat recently.
It's been, it's been 28 yearssince I graduated from Colorado

(01:32):
state university.
And when I finished up school, Icame back to Arizona and I
practiced for 10 years onbasically anything and
everything.
I was just hoping somebody wouldcall me so I could make some
money.
And then after about five to 10years, I was.

(01:54):
It's really focusing more on theequine part of the whole
practice and finding that to bemy calling.
So, what else about me?
I would say that mostimportantly, I have a
personality and a drive and or awherewithal to basically call it

(02:16):
out the way I see it.
I try to be as diplomatic as Ican be with people and with
colleagues and I think I'mgetting better at that but I
would say that I don't like tobeat around the bush a whole
lot.
I don't like to hem and hawaround what I've learned in my

(02:37):
calling has been more and morefocused lately.
What it seems to me is focusingmy interests, my passion, what
I'm really interested increating a calling around a
voice for the horses.
What would that sound like?
What would they say?
What do they need?
You know, we humans are the onesthat are bringing horses into

(02:58):
our orbit, right?
I mean, we know they were aferal and still are wild and
feral examples on the planet ofquis, horses and donkeys.
Zebras and, but the domestichorse is basically 100 percent
dependent on what we can providefor them so that translates to

(03:23):
100 percent responsibility forus to know enough to provide
what they need.
What determines what they need?
What do you have to know?
You have to know something abouttheir nature.
Where did they come from?
Why are they shaped that way?
Why do they do that?
Why do they move like that?
Why do they behave like that sothe more you study, And I'm

(03:47):
talking about studying thehorse.
I'm not talking about studyingfarriery or saddle fit or
training or bridling or drivinghorses, nothing like that.
I'm talking about studying what.
The horse is at theirfoundation, just naked

(04:09):
hoarseness.
What does that tell you abouthow they came to be shaped the
way they're shaped and what canwe do with our domestic horses
in captivity?
And even mine, you know, I'mhere on the ranch in central
Arizona on 5, 000 acres.
That's still confinement and Irecognize that absolutely as

(04:32):
confinement because why theycan't migrate.
There's a mountain range overhere.
There's a mountain range backover this way, but they can't
migrate there and I guaranteeyou they would.
They've tried a couple of timeswhen somebody left the gate
open, for example, and they endup miles away.
But even large spaces that wehave for our horses, we have to

(04:56):
develop a sense of knowingnessand compassion and relate.
It's about relating to what theyneed to not just get by, but
thrive.
That's what we want.
Why do we want them to thrive?
Because look at that.
I mean what draws you.
What makes you so interested?

(05:17):
What are you curious about?
What is that energy?
What is that spirit, that freeexpression that they have?
We're very attracted to that andwe want to get close to that.
We want to co mingle with that,even co create with that.

(05:40):
And it's, it's exciting.
It's alluring.
It's attractive.
And the sad irony is that.
We place horses into situationswhere that becomes not only
handicapped, but completelydisabled.
So, Once you're aware of whathappens, you would be like,

(06:05):
well, what can I do to bringthat back?
Nurture that.
What can I do to nurture thatfreedom of expression and fire
and energy that I'm so attractedto in Equus, right?
So I finally wrote a book aboutit and it has little bits of

(06:26):
everything some science, somestories, sOme statistics on some
of my work with dentistry andhoof care and a little bit of
something for everybody.
It's called Insight to Equus,since you're here with me and we
have this.
Gathering, I'll let you in on alittle bit of a secret about the

(06:46):
title of Insight to Equus.
And I allude to it basically onthe title page of my book and I
break up the word insight to twowords in sight or within sight.
So if I have you in my sight,that means I see you.

(07:08):
If I have a landscape or a herdof animals or an audience of
people within my site, thatmeans I have you right here
within my awareness, within my,within my bubble of what we're
doing moment to moment.

(07:30):
And when horses have each otherand other humans that they feel
comfortable with in their site.
You will start to orbittogether.
You will start to feel together.
You will start to reflect thingsback and forth to each other.
Just like you do in conversationwith your children or your

(07:51):
spouse or your friends.
Or your own horse, perhaps youknow what I'm talking about when
you're out there and talking toyour horse and it's funny.
A lot of times I'm, I'm workingon a horse that I've been called
to see and I'll be in a bit of aconversation with them and I'll

(08:11):
be asking them questions and.
Making little comments andsometimes I'll be in a, a
juvenile voice or a differentkind of voice or just a regular
talking voice.
And so many times the peoplearound or the client will be
like, what was that?
What did you say?

(08:31):
And it'll, it'll bounce me outof my space with the horse.
And I'll have to tell them I wasjust talking to the horse or we
were just talking about thisfoot here, or, Oh, we were just
talking about what they ate thismorning or, so it's been really
fun to try to do both things atthe same time.
Like when I get with a horse ora couple of horses and I'm

(08:53):
working with them and of coursethe owner is there and wanting
to learn and I'm wanting to showthem and, but I'm also talking
to the horse at the same time.
You really have to see it toappreciate it.
And I do plan to try to get somegood help with some videos at
some point to show what thatlooks like, because it's so

(09:15):
different from having a horse ina pair of stocks or in a clinic
in a sterile environment, youknow, with them heavily sedated
or tied up tight or confinedextra tight.
Basically my approach has been,I was going to say quite
different, but it's, it's, it'sa world's different how I like

(09:39):
to be around people and theirhorses with space, having their
friends around, maybe havingsomething to get their mouth on
nibble on now and then.
Space to move if they feel likethey need to move.
So just in that last fewseconds, I gave you some of the
main ingredients about what I'velearned feeds the nature of the

(10:03):
horse.
What do they need?
What are they hardwired for?
Their friends, their her.
What is the herd?
What is the collective?
It's, it's collectiveconsciousness.
And sometimes we can get a senseof this.
Other times we get so in pain orso caught up with what's

(10:25):
happening in life that we, losetouch with that.
And that's probably why we liketo find a friend to talk to, or
we like to go out with ouranimals or take the dog for a
walk or just go out and sit withthe horses to, it.
To regain some of that stream ofherd belonging, herd

(10:46):
consciousness, you know, imaginea space where you can do no
wrong, where, we've got you, wehave you in sight.
You're part of the herd andyou're within sight and it's
okay.
That's powerful.
And it really speaks to what wewant.

(11:07):
People who are really interestedin helping Equus develop a
partnership with humans on thisplanet.
Step up.
This is me ringing the bell andI hope that once we ring the
bell, we can't unring it becausewhat's happening is.
Is important.
And it's so important for us aspeople to, to latch onto this.

(11:35):
I can't help the number ofhorses.
I would love to help unless Ican reach you unless I can speak
to your heart and mind to takethis and go and further advance
this Set of ideas that speaks tonurturing the nature of the

(11:59):
horse, their friends, the herd.
What else do they need?
They need a grass basednutrition.
Why?
Because that's what they evolvedon.
You might not be amazed to learnthat horses cannot digest grass.
Like, what do you mean by that?
Well, what I mean by that isinside their gut.

(12:22):
Are trillions of microorganismsthat are in place in a symbiotic
relationship and have been therefor millions and millions of
years to help horses digestforage, grass, tree leaves,
brush, bark minerals, clay,whatever they could get their

(12:44):
mouth on, right?
Talk about an oral creature.
Horses get their mouths oneverything so they're feeding
the micro flora.
So when I say grass based orforage based nutrition, that's
what I mean by that.
So that's second.
We had the herd, we got grassbased nutrition, space.

(13:06):
Look at the athletic shape ofthis animal.
I mean, if you were a, if you'rea paleontologist and you dug up
a skeleton of a horse or evenone part, even one cannon bone
was all you could find.
I guarantee you, because I'vetalked to them and I know some

(13:29):
of them, they talk about thesestructures speak.
Speed on landscape, everythingabout this length of this bone,
this articulation, the joint,the range of motion speaks to
moving at high rates of speedand open spaces.

(13:50):
How would they know that?
I mean, isn't that kind of a, aleap that doesn't seem like it
would be possible.
It absolutely is possible.
They absolutely are correct.
And, and we know that because wecan observe horses on the
landscape.
We know what they're capable ofgoing 40 miles per hour, or

(14:12):
going straight up in the air ortwisting and turning and rearing
up with each other and so whatkind of spaces do we provide for
that?
What would you think would beminimum space requirements for
not just one horse, right?
Because now, now we're adding tothe herd.

(14:34):
So a herd is two or more, themore the better.
Don't ever ask me if you shouldget another horse because I'll
say, oh yeah, you need, you needto get a bunch more.
I like four, four members in aherd is getting to be much
better than two or three.
One is inappropriate.

(14:54):
Okay, let's just call it out.
Here's the personality comingout for you maybe you should
hear the words out of a guy withletters after his name doctor of
veterinary medicine It's likeokay, that's fine but as soon as
I can let you know that I'm alsohuman the better the fact is
that yeah I spent a lot of moneyand a lot of time, you know,

(15:15):
becoming a veterinarian andpracticing and now we're 28
years into it and here's what itsounds like inappropriate to
keep a horse by themselves.
And now you know why, becausethey're hardwired.
If you measured stress hormonesand other markers in horses that
are kept by themselves, thatbiochemistry and those blood

(15:37):
tests would be screaming at you.
Screaming stress before I getoff on a tangent there let's get
back to the list because we havethe herd, we have grass based
nutrition, we have space andwhat else might you think would
be important for nurturing Thenature of the horse in

(16:02):
domestication now, now we havethem in our backyards on our
track systems on our farm areas.
What do they need?
Well, they need hoof care anddental care.
We need to intervene.
Why?
Because lack of space, lack ofmigration, lack of having a baby

(16:24):
every year, lack of havingstallions around.
Now, some places in the worlddo.
You know, I was in the UK againfor the second time recently
with Amy up there inNottinghamshire and we're
getting together and doingclinics and so maybe I get to
see you if you're a UK person ononline or see this in the

(16:46):
future.
Fact is you have limited spaceand you have a lot of, a lot of
calories on the ground.
So you have no problem providinggrass forage without the
movement and creating the demandto use that forage, you end up
in trouble.
So we have lack of movement,which, how does that show up in

(17:09):
their feet?
They grow too long.
You know that your fingernailsand horses hooves grow too long
if you're not out there diggingin the dirt or breaking them off
or wearing them.
They call that exfoliation.
So, I have horses here that areself trimming.
I have horses I can show youthat I have not touched a tool

(17:31):
to their feet in 15 to 18 yearsnow.
Very cool.
Beautiful.
I mean, just the picture ofhealth and just flying by and
they just say, see ya.
I don't have time to talk today.
I'm just, you know, sometimesthey do want to talk, but other
times they're like, no, I'm verybusy.

(17:53):
He didn't get on the schedulefast enough.
Feels like sometimes teeth,dental care.
Why?
Lack of grazing that green stuffthat's growing in the UK that
you feed the horses that theybite off and eat that.
That's cream.
That's soft.

(18:14):
That's so soft.
You know, I can show you somecoarse grass or some cactus or
some sticker bushes on thedesert here.
The high desert is actually theplaces on the planet that horses
probably spent huge amounts oftime evolving on.

(18:35):
Not that they couldn't havemigrated through parts of the
UK, or from north to south Butthey couldn't have stayed there.
Why?
Why can't horses, during theirevolution, just stay on the
greenest place they find?
Predators.
Where's the predators?
Sometimes I feel like I'm apredator.
Sometimes when I see horsesstanding around too much,

(18:57):
they're like, go, let's go moveguys let's go.
We gotta go.
I'll eat you up with a smile onmy face.
So I want you to get aware ofwhy it's important to keep them
moving, address their feet.
And how would you address theirfeet?

(19:18):
You would want to trim theirfeet in a way that is
complimentary.
to their nature.
How would they have done itthemselves?
Had they had the chance?
What would their teeth look likeif they had the chance to graze
on a variety of coarse foragesand brush and sagebrush and tree
bark and mineral?

(19:38):
Yeah, it just one of thelimiting factors for lifespan
here in the desert.
is teeth wear.
You won't see that in the UK.
Hardly ever, but I see it here alot horses that will wear their
teeth out.
You might be aware that horseshave reserve tooth mass up
inside their skull.
They're not like our teeth thatcome in and stop.

(19:59):
Horses can keep erupting theirteeth about an eighth of an inch
per year up until they're 20 25years old.
And so you can use files toadjust their teeth so that they
meet in the middle, so theangles are correct.
And most importantly, whatyou'll find out in the book is
that With lack of grazing, theirfront teeth, the incisors,

(20:24):
become too long.
And what does that do?
It forces their back teethapart.
So how frustrating would that bein a domestic situation?
Your front teeth getting so longthat you can't get your grinding
teeth together very well.
Another source of stress, right?
So where's my herd?

(20:44):
Where's my grass basednutrition?
Where's the space for me to run?
How come my teeth are in my wayand too long?
Why do my feet hurt becausethey're too long so, paying
attention to these things, youwin.
Don't get into a Here's me Thisis my diplomatic encouragement
for you.

(21:04):
Don't get into a micromanagingsituation if He can help if, if
you need to fall apart, thencall Ronnie, call me, call
somebody who knows, because youknow we can pace with that.
You need your herd too.
When you're going through yourtrials and tribulations, getting

(21:25):
this all figured out.
But the take home point is don'tmicromanage with every tiny
little thing.
Pay attention to the big thingsthat you need space, nutrition,
hoof care, dental care, space torun, friends.
Got to have the herd got to, Ican give you dozens of case

(21:49):
studies where it wasn't untilsomebody got sick horse or that
foundering horse or thatmetabolic crisis horse, a friend
or two, when they plateaued outof their illness and finally
could get better, could finallyheal.
Why?
Because I can't heal horses.

(22:10):
I know a lot of stuff.
I cannot heal horses.
What can I do?
I can encourage people toprovide what horses need to
heal.
Big, big difference is thatresponsibility part.
Again, here's that part whereyou have to have that gentle

(22:33):
kick in the butt, thatempowerment to provide what they
need to maintain health and orheal.
So That's a pretty big nutshellof where I'm at now with my
calling, my passion, my interestin providing the best of the
best information that I can topeople to be successful, to not

(22:57):
micromanage and why does itmatter?
Let's let's kind of circle rightback around just for a couple
minutes and talk about why itmatters because we're attached
because we're learning what it'slike.
To really love animals, loveourselves enough to make this

(23:18):
happen, right?
This is where it's at.
This is why it matters.
You can get me started on moreand more stories about the
little kids that come up to mewhen their pony is sick with all
of their ideas about what thatlittle pony needs to survive the

(23:38):
illness.
And just heart wrenching storiesthat I could tell you about how
I showed up too late.
They were a collect.
They were founded beyond myability to save them at the time
they were diabetic.

(24:00):
They were just In a metabolicstate that was so far down the
drain that it was going to bevery difficult to get them back
out because now they can't move.
Now they're uncomfortable.
Now they're toxic.
You know, that's why it matters.
You gotta be preventing thatsort of despair and going down

(24:24):
the drain so when I see subtlesigns of it happening, I'm like
ringing that bell, ringing thatbell.
Hey, Hey, Hey.
You see the crest on this neck.
You see these fat pockets, thistrend towards obesity, you see
this lameness, how about theseteeth?
You see how they're crooked hereor too long here?
What about that toe lengththere?

(24:46):
Why is that allowed to be likethat?
I mean, that's, that's affectingyour foundation.
You're getting bone remodeling.
You know, the coffin bones onlylast so long, hopefully 30 to 40
years with inadequate orignorant care ignorant just
means you didn't know, right?

(25:06):
You can't accomplish this if youdon't know, I would never blame
you for doing something unlessyou knew the difference.
So this is about sharing thedifference, training people's
eyes.
So when you get on my Facebookpage or you look at my book,
it's all about eye training.
Here's this one and here's thisone.
Can you see it?
Okay.
Let's get the ruler out.

(25:28):
Let's get the arrows going so Ican show you this right here.
See that?
And then you won't unsee it.
You can't unring the bell andyou can't unsee it.
I hope.
Why else?
You know did you know thatpeople in domestic violence
situations have very poorability to relate to animals.
I mean it's very, very common.

(25:50):
So from a young age, all the wayup through adolescence and into
adulthood, if you're not in asituation, or if you were
modeled by other adults insituations to mistreat or abuse,
or just, just be with animals ina way that was highly master
slave type, kind of opposite ofpartnership.

(26:12):
Okay.
So I grew up on these Westernranches.
I've worn the cowboy hat a lot.
It can very much speak thatlanguage.
Which is good because now I cancommunicate with cowboys, which
I do all the time.
It's pretty fun and you know, Ican meet people where they are.

(26:34):
But I also imagine where we'reheaded with this and with my
young children right now, agesix, four and two, three year
olds, they're not going to knowwhat that's like.
Very cool.
Very cool that that would prettymuch be off their radar.
Now it's not because they watchme fix horses constantly.

(26:54):
It's so entertaining to hear thefour year old, point to a
horse's foot with a shoe on itor something strange about, and
she'll say, it's not right,that's not right and they're
just.
beautiful honesty around it.
So you could very well guessthat I'm not in favor of shoeing
horses or using bits in horsesmouths.

(27:18):
And it's the same song, secondverse.
It disrespects the nature of thehorse.
What are they capable of?
What are they capable of withtheir Reflexes in their body
parts and their nerve sensationsintact.
So whenever you interfere withwhat you think you need to do to
accomplish a certain thing, Ihave another idea or maybe a few

(27:43):
ideas for you.
And if I can get my toenail inthe door with you, or if you can
ask a question.
That's all I need.
I'm not going to come down yourstreet with a sign saying, no,
I'm not doing that anymore.
If you have a question or you'rehaving an issue and you need

(28:06):
some help, And can ask aquestion or make an inquiry,
then we'll go, then I'll come,then I'll get in the door with
you and, and we'll go fromthere.
The magic of getting people tohook up a little bit with this
is to at least give them a senseof why it matters, why it's

(28:29):
important and I can point totheir own animals every time.
You know why it's important,because Blackjack over here has
not been sound going on four,five years now.
Or Susie Horse over here has hadthis metabolic problem going on
for six, seven, eight years now.

(28:50):
And you've tried everything,right?
Except you haven't tried extraspace and having the herd and
having nutrition and workingthrough the minerals and the
proper dental care and hoof careso pretty critical to Reach
these people on from wherethey're at and what they have in

(29:13):
front of them.
That's what I mean by meetingpeople where they're at.
So I think with that I feelpretty good about if somebody
has any questions or maybeRonnie, if that sparks any
questions in your mind aboutwhat we're doing here and where
we're going with all thisbecause that's what i'd like to

(29:34):
do is just go from there.

Ronnie (29:36):
i've got lots of questions.
A horse's strength is immense.
And even from a Shetland, a tinyhorse, if they wanted to drag
you down the field, down theroad, they would do, if they
wanted to kill you, they coulddo literally, they have so much
strength in them and the factthat they.
Don't the majority of the timeuntil they get to a point where

(30:01):
they need to be heard big timebecause they're not being
listened to.
They put up with quite a lot andthey try to help us they try to
show us in their way.
Now you don't have to be arocket scientist to understand a
feel of somebody and it's thesame for human to human.

(30:22):
So if we did some of the thingsthat we do with horses to
another human being, they'deither walk up the door or would
you get a buff in the facebecause it's not acceptable but
yet we think that is for ananimal.
Now I could go a lot deep intothis because of what they give
me, the information they sharewith me, but on a On a simple

(30:44):
level, it's about having respectfor a fellow soul, a fellow
energetic being sharing thisplanet with us, and they are
doing their best to live theirlife the way they should be, and
we should be doing the same withus, and they are so good at

(31:04):
showing us in lots of differentways that we're not listening to
our own guidance, our ownknowing that what's right and
what's wrong.
And by that, I don't mean likeyou're doing that wrong and
you're doing that right.
They're trying to show us, look,there's another way.
There's another way that you cansee me there's another way that
you can work with me.
There's another way that I cando as you ask, if you just

(31:28):
listen to what I need, myrequirements.
So I think that goes with whatyou just said, Thomas, but in a
slightly different way.
Does that make sense to whatI've just said to you?

Tomas (31:39):
Yeah.
I liked the way that you, youpresented and put that.
The fact that something elseabout the nature of the horses
is.
Some people talk about thembeing a prey animal, for
example, or certain behavioristscan talk about them being more
of a reactive type of animalinstead of a predatory or

(32:04):
whatever but it feels like whatyou are speaking to and what I
would appreciate about that iswouldn't they be just about the
perfect entity, the perfect setof souls on the planet to help
us with that perspective becausewe can and we have dominated

(32:29):
them for 5, 000 years or so theywere the motor of the day.
Horsepower, you know, absolutelythey are not every individual,
but the vast majority of themcan be.
enslaved, if I can use a term orput upon or used beyond a level

(32:53):
that They would have been inpartnership or chosen to be
involved with.
I think that that's pretty selfevident.
So if we can create a space tobe with that, because I'm not
somebody who's going to tell youdon't ride your horse or don't
do this or don't do that, what Iwould like is where's the

(33:14):
invitation.
Where do you circle up with yourhorses and have a discussion?
Literally again, it's adiscussion I have with my
horses.
When I go out there to try tocatch one of them to go move
some cows, because we still havecows here in central Arizona
that we're managing.
So it's pretty funny if you hada hidden camera on me you'd

(33:37):
think that's not a cowboy orhe's the cowboy that never
really was.
In fact, I can tell you thatevolving within our lifetime.
And what it sounds like you'resaying is they're the perfect
herd of animals to help usattain that perspective of how
do you want to proceed?

(33:58):
How do you want to go from here?
Because People do get hurt.
People do have their hearts andminds just broken over horses,
right?
So attached to them.
So that's kind of what it soundslike.
What you're saying is they wouldbe in the perfect position to
help us with that.

Ronnie (34:16):
Absolutely what they just give me now is adaptability
they are not afraid and they arenot closed to adaptability.
So in different places they havea different role and the wild
horses that run free, that iswhere they originated from.
But they understand that in thistime that is not always the case

(34:38):
and each horse is individual.
As long as the needs are met,that they have adequate
nutrition that they need, thefeed that they need, that they
have shelter that they get to goout and they have companionship.
Companionship they're saying canbe from the humans, but they
need to be in a place where theyappreciate and are open to that.

(35:02):
So it's about spending time withthem.
The biggest thing that I say tomy clients is, If you have a
horse and you see your horsethree times a day and you feed
your horse, you go to groomthem, you go to do the stable or
the shelter, that is not thesame as just being in their
presence with no intention to doanything apart from just being

(35:23):
there.
And the best thing is just tosit with them and just to watch
them, but gently not intensely,but just gently and just feel
what they're sending out to you.
You can communicate with ananimal.
You do not have to be right nextto'em.
They can be in another field andthey don't have to be looking at
you, but they are stillcommunicating as you know, with

(35:45):
another horse.
They're all eating the grass orwhatever they're eating.
They've all got the heads down.
And then one.
Horse may flick it see in acertain way and slightly raise
its head and the other ones.
It doesn't matter where theyare.
They will do the same.
If a horse raises its head high,it will be a few seconds and all
the others will do exactly thesame.

(36:07):
It's not just a visual thing.
They are in tune with eachother.
And we as humans have thatability.
But with all the noise and thechatter and external influences
and distractions, we'veforgotten how to do that.
When we're with an animal orwhen we go for a walk in nature,

(36:28):
that comes back to us.
And it's that peace andgrounding is the basis of
everything.
And that's where you start.
Communication isn't always aboutwhat you hear, when there's a
storm coming, you will hear thebirds and there'll be lots of
noises and then it will go quietor the wind might just settle

(36:48):
down.
It might be really windy and thewind settles down, you know,
something's on its way and theanimals know it's something on
its way and it's that quiet.
There's so much communication inthat stillness that it's not.
something you can always putinto words, but you can feel it.
And it's that that has aninfluence on the physical being

(37:09):
of a human and the physicalbeing of, of an animal and
horses, as we're talking about.
Does that make sense?

Tomas (37:17):
Yeah, very much so.
So they would help us get backin touch with.
Some of those abilities thatarguably we, we have those
abilities also, and that wouldbe, it would seem to be timely
again in so many ways to, tofeel into that and instead of,

(37:41):
yeah, ultimate distractionseverywhere.
that we run into.

Ronnie (37:46):
But it's not about going back in time and wishing we were
in a stone age or you know, whenthe horses were all wild,
because we're not there.
We're here, we're evolving andthey are too.
We're all evolving bothphysically and energetically.
So what we have to try and findis a mutual ground where we can

(38:06):
meet and Give and receive fromeach other, whatever that is,
our needs met because as ahuman, that's what we're always
asking.
I want my needs met.
I want, I want, and an animal issaying exactly the same, but you
don't recognize what my needsare.

(38:27):
So how can you recognize whatyour true needs are?
Right.

Tomas (38:31):
We could make a list for what is in the nature of the
humans to need, to thrive aswell.
As the veterinarian, I can giveyou some really good tips like I
did on what they would need toshow up in that way to help us
out, to continue to help us outbut in a partnership, instead of

(38:52):
do it or I'll sell you at theauction and get a new horse.
No, not like that that's notsustainable.

Ronnie (39:01):
I can share a little story with you if you like and
then I think we'll just ask youa bit more about your UK trip
and how people here respondedcause I'm sure some of this that
we're talking today must've comeout in conversation in your
trips because it's not just afew.
There are a lot of people thatare going in this direction and
thinking about this and tryingto change for the better yeah,

(39:23):
there's a lot more people.
So I went to see a client, thiswas quite a few years ago and I
went to see a horse, it was alovely lady.
And I wasn't sure why I wasthere because when I went in to
chat with the horse, what I waspassing on to the carer saying
if you did this and then as longas you allowed the space for

(39:43):
healing, as long as you allowthis time, then your dreams what
it is you're trying to achieveachievable, but maybe not quite
the way you was expecting.
'cause she wanted to ride horseand do competitions and things.
And I was saying this to thelady and it was almost like she
was listening, but she wasdistracting.

(40:04):
It wasn't anything to do whatwas around her.
It was her thoughts, her ownknowing why she was distracted
but I didn't know this at thetime, so I was carrying on with
the communication and.
There was a feeling of, I don'tknow, this is not really landed,
I'm not sure why.
So I carried on passing on themessages.

(40:24):
And then all of a sudden, thehorse stopped talking and all he
said was, There isn't a right orwrong answer, it doesn't matter.
Because I will think no less ofthis person, whatever her
decision is and as soon as hesaid that I had this feel, I
knew I didn't know exactly what,but I knew where it was going.

(40:49):
So I passed this message on andthen that's when the information
came back and what it was is avet had been to see the horse
and this horse had been lame andin and out, in and out.
And there was a path.
that could have gone in onedirection, but it would have
meant a lot of financial worry,which the lady could not

(41:13):
realistically achieve at thatmoment and the horse knew this.
So the horse knew that she wasnot in a position to provide
these certain things.
Now, it doesn't mean to say thatit would have totally worked,
but the horse was saying, thisis an option when he realized
that It's not in her power andshe's made her decision.

(41:37):
He was releasing her and saying,it doesn't matter what decision
you make it's fine.
He was basically saying, if youwant to let me go, that's fine
too.
And that was a big learningcurve for me.
So as soon as I said this, shegave me information about the
vet and she said, He's given methis other option, but it is my

(41:58):
choice.
And what the horse was sayingis, doesn't matter which one you
choose.
I know you're doing it becausethat's the only option you have
at this time.
Does that make sense, Thomas?
So in a ideal world, iffinances, money, you know that
wasn't an issue.

(42:19):
Then there's lots of otherchoices we could choose.
Now, the horse was well awarethat that wasn't an option at
that moment, but there was nojudgment, there was just an
understanding from this energy,this horse that I was connecting
to and that taught me a lot ittaught me a lot.

Tomas (42:42):
Yeah, it's simple and profound, really, to just try to
get into that space of nonjudgment, of trying to explain
away or rationalize or name yourpoison when it comes to what the
humans will.
Try to do or justify or explainit's like, the horse is

(43:07):
presented with the facts and,oh, that's the facts.
The end.
The end.
There's no fear.
No.
Why would there be a reason totake that further?
If that's the facts

Ronnie (43:22):
and on a human element, if we had that choice, yeah,

Tomas (43:28):
Would you like to do now?
And does it look like to invitea horse or a herd of horses to
show up a little bitdifferently?
Is their environment so dead,dry bone, boring that they would
have no reason to want to showup any differently?
Or could somebody please dosomething to provide a little

(43:52):
bit of habitat enrichment hereso that they might?
Be invited to show some fire orsome spirit or some expression
or bring a different smell or adifferent person, or just any
change at all.
Basically change the facts ofthe equation.
What's the equation coming inthese facts that you talk about?
It seems to me that that is whatwe could present as a way to ask

(44:18):
a question or extend theinvitation for example.

Ronnie (44:23):
Yes.
Maybe it's because we're scaredof the answers.

Tomas (44:26):
Yeah.

Ronnie (44:29):
Because we're scared to the answers.

Tomas (44:31):
Absolutely.
Yeah and we think, Oh, it's goodenough, but is it, is it really
good enough?
So we have to ask the humans thequestion.
Now we're right back to thehumans.
Like I say all the time, thehorses can figure this out.
They got this.
You give them these three orfour or five things that they

(44:51):
need.
They'll be more than fine.
What do you need to get out ofyour rut to provide for that?
Why are we talking about this?
You know, for eight, nine, 10years in a row, but you're not
providing for that or not doingthe minimal amount of research

(45:13):
to present the, the facts, thedifferent scenarios, the
enrichment.
to your horses to show you somecool stuff.
Cause they will, they absolutelywill show you the most cool
stuff ever.

(45:34):
And they just need a very fewthings in place to do that.
Study the nature, study yournature, study the nature of the
horse and Do your best toprovide for that.
And your best right now is notyour best next summer.
It's not.

(45:55):
It better not be.
Don't become complacent we callthat some level of
accountability or a gentle pushor a nudge or encouragement or
empowerment.
Whatever it takes but I don'tthink it works very well to
shame people into doing stuffthat really short circuits, the

(46:19):
energy that we're talking aboutso.

Ronnie (46:21):
No conversation like this is just.
If anybody's interested orsomething in them resonate, then
that's what it's about.
It's not about followingeverything somebody does, but if
they lead you into starting tolisten to your own thoughts,
your own little voice and yourown understanding and knowing
feelings, because you know, ifyou're doing something just to

(46:44):
go into the motions, you knowwhat it feels like but once you
look at it and think, how wouldI feel if that was me?
And sometimes people say, yes,but I'm not a horse.
You're not a horse.
No, but how would it feel?
To you, if you were in a box forlike nine hours and you got out
to go for like an hour's walkand then you got back in again,

(47:07):
where would your mind be, what,what would you be doing?
If I'm in the house for a wholeday, I feel closed in and
pending in but again, it's notabout.
saying to somebody, well, thisis how I keep my horse.
This is how it's got to be.
It's about understanding ifthat's how we keep an animal, we
have to understand that withthat comes consequences because

(47:29):
it's not, a natural place forthem to thrive mentally.
It's just a place to be.
And some animals as I saidearlier They're all different,
but they don't say, this is whatI want, you know, total freedom
because they understand thatthere becomes a partnership from

(47:50):
being with a human.
They understand that they getlooked after they get fed, they
get loved as long as they'relistened to and they're Their
concerns are felt andacknowledged, even if we can't
change it straight away thatit's acknowledged that's a big

(48:11):
thing, so it's just a start.
Treat an animal as you would ahuman, or treat an animal as you
would like to be treated, withrespect, with dignity, and
Compromise it's not a this wayor that way.
It's about compromising.

(48:32):
I feel we're going off the wholea different topic.

Tomas (48:36):
Yeah, but we're, we're getting down to the most
foundational stuff here and it'sa good starting point when you
encourage people to feel intowhat that might be like for
themselves.
That's a great place to start,but it's absolutely not where
you're going to stay.
From what I've seen, because thebetter observer that you are,

(48:56):
and we call that empiricism,empirical science, the oldest
form of science on the planet ispower of observation.
Once you just open that box andthen you start to watch what
happens is you start to getanswers to questions that you
didn't ask.
Think about that.
You go out there and at firstyou're like, what do you guys

(49:19):
need?
What, what am I, I didn't dothis.
I did that way.
I'm worried about this.
And horses are like yeah, yeah,yeah and then you can evolve and
move into a quieter space ofjust observe everything as a
herd, become a herd member.
Don't go out there with yourpredatory eyes, like you have
been, or just your unconscious.

(49:41):
You mentioned just kind ofgetting into a pattern of You
know, three times a day, somepeople don't even realize that's
what they're doing they'reunconsciously unconscious.
So the first step is to justbecome that spectator of
yourself and like, Oh yeah,that's what I do.
Okay.
Now if you have some people onyour side to say, yeah, yeah,

(50:03):
go, go, go that's it.
Then you wouldn't feel alonewith that.
But if you think you're weird oryou think you're crazy, then
just call me and I'll show youcrazy.
You won't feel alone and that'sthe good stuff that we can get
into to move this further and,and raise the level of
consciousness around it.

(50:24):
Because I think like you saidbefore, we really are capable of
a herd perspective and not asselfish, not as egoic, not as
so.
Involuted in and hidden insideof us and it takes time, takes
time to bloom and come out andbe allowed to be expressed free

(50:47):
expression.
You know, look, watch, watch thehorses.
I'll bet, you know, of horsesthat are kind of shut down and
really not very expressive.
And now you could probably saywhy.
Do their feet hurt?
Is their teeth not work?
Is their metabolism messed up?

(51:08):
Do they have no space to move?
Do they have no friends to rubup against and have somebody
scratch their withers withsimultaneously?
If not, then now you know.
So let's, let's scratch eachother's withers here, right?
That feels good.

Ronnie (51:30):
That's one way of putting it, Thomas.

Tomas (51:32):
Well, whatever it takes, get into that space of working
collectively.

Ronnie (51:41):
Yeah.
So definitely and it's never,like you said earlier it's never
about sitting here and saying weare this and you should be doing
this.
What we're saying is there isanother way and animals are
saying that all the time.
And they're all individual.
They're all different as humans,but they, Definitely in my line

(52:01):
of work, are looking for us tomake changes, but within
ourselves to recognize, so wehad a little conversation before
we started.
And most people will totallyagree that they will do more for
their animals than they willthemselves.
They will notice things aboutthe animals before they notice

(52:22):
things within themselves.
A lot of my clients, whenanimals are presenting
something, there will besomething similar within the
client's physical too.
Mm-Hmm.
So if you're familiar with themirror syndrome, you can say
that's a reflection back ofmyself, and it is to a certain
degree but it is on a physical,but it's more an energetic.

(52:46):
So our energy changes ourphysical and it causes problems
within our bodies as it doeswith animals, with horses.
And if we can see how ourmindset or our emotions our
energy.
If we are aware it can changehow we physically feel, then we

(53:06):
have an understanding how thataffects a horse.
And if you're riding a horse orwith a horse, you can sense when
their energy changes before itchanges.
Sometimes you can sense whenthey're picking up on yours
before you've got to that pointof escalated or higher energy.
They can sense how you arebefore you even.

(53:30):
and near them.
They just pick up on yourwavelength.
They know how your energy is.
Is it sparky?
Is it smooth?
Is it calm?
Is it soft?
Is it firm?
They just know that energybecause that's what they're used
to with horses.
They know if a horse isapproaching them that they need
to back off.
They just know that, or to seeif they're okay.

(53:51):
We have that as humans, becausewe are animals too at the end of
the day.
We have that, but we ignore itbecause we have too many
distractions.
But it is there.
And horses show us that if weconnect to that and we start to
understand what it is forourselves, then we can start to

(54:13):
see and acknowledge that in ananimal before it gets to a point
where it needs addressing.
That's where we're headed.
There'll be times when we won'tneed to ask for external help
because it will be there.
It won't be a thought, it willjust be a knowing.
As you walk out to a field, youcan be poo picking, your horse

(54:34):
comes up to you, you can bescratching its butt, and then
for some reason your hand staysthere.
I know my attention is saying,Notice.
It's not just my hand on thehorse's butt for no reason, it's
notice, my energy, what's itdoing, where's it going, what's
being asked of it.
And you can either question itor you can just sit with it and

(54:56):
just feel it, and then the horsewill walk off and you carry on
doing what you're doing.
There's been an exchange there,there's been a communication.
There's been a knowing andunderstanding, not on verbal
terms, it's just a knowing of anenergetic being interacting with
another one.

Tomas (55:16):
Yeah.
There's lots of examples likethat, that we could invite
people to try just to go outthere and, and be there and we
know that they're going to haveall these questions going
through their mind and all thesewonderings and all of these
queries and, and that's justwhere you're at with that.

(55:37):
That's just.
Something to sit with and thehorses are again, not going to
be in high judgment around thatother than they might be like,
eh, you're pretty prickly, oryou're pretty slippery, or
you're pretty full of youragenda today, or oftentimes let
you know the healthiest horses,let you know the most though.

(55:59):
I will say that that's somethingthat you can really Count on
which is a lovely thing becausewhen you rub up against him and
get in partnership with really,really healthy horses, think of,
think of the horses thatwouldn't necessarily depend on
you for their very survival.

(56:20):
You, you can find horses likethis and you can actually set up
little habitats around your ownplaces to, keep the food
available, the water available,the movement and just observe
and watch the health andvitality and fire come into that
herd structure and then be withthat.

(56:41):
If you have to go out there andread a book do that if you need
a distraction like that Buteventually I think what you're
saying is to go out there andjust be,be a human being not a
human doing Out there would bequite revealing wouldn't it?

Ronnie (56:57):
Yes.
Yes Just the same as if you gosit under a tree and just read a
book or you're watching abutterfly or watching a bird or
watching a cloud.
Your senses start to expandnaturally and, and then you pick
up the frequencies of what'sgoing on.

(57:18):
You just pick up the vibes, thefeel, and that's you listening
and connecting to.
yourself, your own feel, yourown knowing Can make it as
difficult or you can make it assimple as just what's it like to
just go out, have a breath ofair, just go and just feel that

(57:41):
peace.
Just, this is so lovely.
And that's what it is.
That's what, that's That's thenice sweet spot, then the
information, then the knowledge,then the knowing, then the
understanding comes through, butyou have to start somewhere and
it's just taking time out it'sbeing selfish.

(58:02):
You have to be selfish.
You know, it's all right beingof service and doing everything
for everybody else, but whatyou're doing is you're avoiding
your own needs.
And horses want us to look atour needs because when we follow
our true needs and by that Idon't mean things.
As needs, you know, I need a newpair of boots.
It's not that it's what do Ineed for peace of mind?

(58:25):
What do I need?
To quiet in my mind.
What do I need?
Because in that place horses cancommunicate easier.
They can't get through all thatsparks and and chatter They need
us to just be still, stillenough for them to, and they
have to know that we mean ittoo.

(58:46):
It's like, yeah, we know you'vesaid that before because what
you're doing is I'm sittinghere, I'm being quiet.
I'm not getting anything becauseit's like.
Why aren't I getting anything?
He's like, but you're mine's notquiet.

Tomas (59:01):
Are some examples we might be able to come up with to
give people a sense of what thatis like and you can actually
practice that.
Just being with a couple ofother people or a circle of
people and just, you know, just.
Listen, you can close your eyesor not, or you can sit or stand,

(59:24):
but just be and feel if it'suncomfortable.
Feel if.
Here's your mind is saying, Oh,I should say something right now
but it's more of a what emergesbecause stuff will show up in
emerge and maybe you do want tosay something.
Maybe you do want to say, wow,look at that.

(59:45):
Look at that tree and nevernoticed that before, or, or just
being observance of.
How the horses will show upyeah, it is a whole nother
subject about how horses aremore than willing to interact to
greater or lesser degrees withus when we're putting themselves

(01:00:05):
within their sight again.bychoice, put yourself.
Put yourself within sight ofthat.
Put yourself within sight ofsomebody who can see you if you
go out and you're an alcoholicand you hang out at the bar,
that's going to have predictableresults, probably.
If you're wanting to dosomething different than, you

(01:00:28):
know, look for a campfire orlook for a smelly old barnyard
with some.
Horses with flies around andjust sit with that for a while
and, and see what emerges.
See what putting yourself insight of that might afford you,
right?
It's up totally up to you.

(01:00:49):
I mean, do you have enoughevidence yet in your life that
what you're doing is working ornot working?
Just asking, it's a question foryou to consider as consciously
as you can is it working?
Is it good enough?
Are you good enough to, to wantfor that?

(01:01:09):
How do you feel about upping theante, about upping your game
next level?
You know, for you gamers outthere who, you know, that's the
next level, move up to a levelof expertise around where you
put yourself.
Insight of those that will, Hmm,I would say lovingly nibble on

(01:01:36):
you a little bit.
It's like when I put a sickhorse with other horses to heal,
what I'm looking for is thoseother horses to be just like,
you better move a little bitfurther away from me because
you're the newcomer and yeah,I'll let you drink eventually,
but not right now.
And.

(01:01:57):
This is my hay right here.
So you're going to have to goeat over there and that's not
personal that's like a nibble.
That's like a little push.
That's like a little shove.
And then if you want to comeback around and get together
with me, head to tail or, youknow, scratch my withers.

(01:02:17):
Oh, that, that'd be all rightuntil it's time to go get
another drink and I get to drinkfirst.
But not you and that can change.
So anyway I like speakingmetaphorically sometimes like
that so people can get whatwe're talking about with horse
speak, with herd speak andgetting yourself in sight of, of

(01:02:40):
all that.
So it's a, it's quite thefeeling, isn't it?
The words don't do a kind ofjustice.
With it that I try, but it, it'sreally about a feel and a space
and putting yourself in that tofeel that.

Ronnie (01:03:02):
That was very good.
Understood that if I didn't knowhorses, could understand that it
was very visual.
They're amazing.
Creatures.
Thomas, is there anything thatyou'd like to say to the viewers
in the listeners?
That they could do, toexperience this from your point
of view,

Tomas (01:03:24):
Well, I did, I did spend a lot of time and a lot of love
and blood and sweat and tearsputting together what I have put
together in the book.
So you can get that online oryou can get a copy sent to you,
anywhere in the world.
And I think it's helpful to sitwith some of the ideas that I

(01:03:46):
put forward there, for hereright now.
I would encourage people to openup more space for their horses
and I would also like to extendthe invitation for them to trust
their horses a little bit moreto not self destruct, not.

(01:04:08):
hurt themselves, not, not go outthere and just do something
untoward.
Trust them a little bit more to,to be a horse and again, it's
more about letting go of some ofthat micromanagement.
With respect to UK, I know youhave a lot more rain and Mud and

(01:04:31):
that sort of stuff over there.
Then I have to deal with.
So I would encourage you to saveup some money for some gravel
and make a space for your horsesto get high and dry and maintain
that.
Place because it really pays bigdividends with their hoof health

(01:04:52):
and they like it.
They like the feel of the, thegravel it needs to be, you know,
10 or 15 centimeters thick wedon't want pebbles on a hard
surface, like marbles on a hardsurface that doesn't feel good
I'm talking about a depth ofcrushed rock or gravel to.

(01:05:14):
That becomes mandatory, Irealized.
I've been to Australia, UK,Southeastern U.
S.
Oregon coast of the U S it'srainforest and appreciate that
horses would not choose to bethere long term.
They might migrate throughthere, but they don't choose to
live there.
It's an inappropriateenvironment to be in all the

(01:05:36):
time.
So what you have to do is helpyour environment out a little
bit by getting some of that.
Rock hauled in there.
So you call up the landscapecompany or you, you start
hauling some stone and somegravel to your place and put it
in an area where they have tomove across it.

(01:05:56):
So what else would I say?
I could talk to you about anyone of these subjects for days
and days.
So yeah,

Ronnie (01:06:03):
that's fine.

Tomas (01:06:05):
Nutrition wise.
You can look on my Facebook pagefor some nutrition stuff and
websites that I feel are reallygood to read articles and also
dealing with stress in ourhorses.
I don't think it's strange atall that we're dealing with more
and more stress induced syndrometypes of things in our horses,
we call it Cushing's syndrome inpeople, dogs, horses.

(01:06:30):
It's a excess stress hormone inyour life has predictable,
negative, measurableconsequences.
And we're seeing it more andmore and stress can come because
of all of those things.
Don't have enough friends.
Don't have enough space.
The diet is not right.
My feet hurt.
My teeth hurt.

(01:06:50):
These are all sources of stress.
And so you've got to take a lookat.
Reducing the stress coming infrom all of these different
angles in your environment andthe human environment to who I'd
like this part, what is thehuman environment like, I mean,

(01:07:12):
how you show up around yourhorses, you know, with more calm
confidence, or are you just abig worry about everything?
Be honest about it.
It's okay.
I can tell when I meet you, Ican tell when I meet your horses
and I get to meet you, how, whatthe human environment is like.

(01:07:32):
And we talk about that and it'sreally cool and it's really
important.
And it can be fun.
To begin with, it can be like,Oh, you've got a spotlight on
me.
And it's like, yeah, but it'sokay and we're going to have
coffee later, or we're going tohave a beer, or we're going to
just hang out, or we're going tosee you again next time, or

(01:07:53):
we're going to follow theprogress here.
I tell people, you know, I wishyou'd send me some pictures once
in a while, and I wish you'dsend me a message about how it's
going and however many times Ican say that and just portray
that I really mean it.
For a long time with somepeople, it's just like

(01:08:13):
tumbleweeds or just like, youknow, no word there's no word.
And I finally break down and geton messenger or send a text,
like, how's it going?
I can't stand it anymore andsometimes you're like, Oh, it's
fine.
I'm like, Oh, good, thanks fortelling me other times.
It's like, Oh, it's, you know,this, it's like, yeah, we need
to, we need to get back on that.

(01:08:35):
Right.
Yeah.
You need some support for thatbecause let's face it, not every
veterinarian talks like this.
Right.
And a lot of veterinarians talkabout stall rest.
Ah, no, no, no.
That's not a thing.
Okay you're not going to hear metalk about stall rest in horses.

(01:08:57):
No and we can go into thatsometime if you want.
We should probably get together,Ronnie and talk about some more
of these sorts of things becausewe're just kind of brushing some
tips of the icebergs here and,and yes, but you know, dig down
a little bit more.
Why, why would I say that?
How could I say that?

(01:09:17):
It's like, well, let me tell youhow I could say that right back
to the nature of the horseagain.
You think you're going to forcehealing on that boat tendon in
that horse.
And why do they re injurethemselves when you go to do
your controlled exercise sixweeks from now?
Even months and now you haveulcers and now you have a

(01:09:40):
metabolic problem because youcan find the horse and now their
feet are falling apart becauseof lack of stimulation and
movement and their minds areblown and their condition off
their body is gone because ofLack of fitness and lack of
movement.
So back to trusting your horsesmore.

(01:10:00):
Absolutely.
I, I trust horses to be out inbig spaces and they don't self
destruct.
They don't, they actually calmdown.
I've watched horses that beenput in stalls and they're
starting to spin and cause moreinjury.
Develop ulcers, develop colic,develop more hoof problems, more

(01:10:25):
musculoskeletal problems.
Oh, I'm getting off on thattangency.

Ronnie (01:10:30):
No, no, it's fine.
You just reminded me, I'll say aquick story so I had a client
who who was a friend and she hada horse training facility.
And one of her own horses had abad injury and he was told to
stay in the box, which he wasokay, but he was also getting
sedated and she messaged me tosay that he's really struggling

(01:10:57):
and he's been sedative, butthere's something not right with
him.
And the vet says, you've got tosedate him because if he moves,
he's going to do more injury.
And basically.
And when I tuned into hisenergy, he was fighting the
sedation, he didn't want to feelout of control.
And it was sedation he wasfighting, not being in the box
at that moment so I saidobviously I can't tell you to do

(01:11:19):
something.
If your vets recommendedsedation, it wasn't like a heavy
sedation.
It was just like a sedativeanyway, the next day she
messaged me to say I'd forgottento put the sedative out with the
feed for my groom to feedbreakfast in the morning.
She's like, I totally forgot allabout it and he's so much calmer

(01:11:40):
today.
He stood in the box and he'sactually calmer.
So he gave her the proof of whathe was saying to me to pass on
to her and that was I don't wantto be sedated, I'm fighting this
and because I'm is looking worsethan what's actually going on.
But she knew me and she trustedme, but I said at the end of the

(01:12:02):
day, you've got to go with whatyou feel because I can't tell
you what to do, but this is whatyour horse is saying.
Whether she meant to forget it,or it was meant to be that way,
but she forgot to leave themeds, so it worked out fine in
the end.

Tomas (01:12:16):
Coincidence?
I think not.

Ronnie (01:12:17):
No.
There's no such thing.
So this podcast is just to givepeople a little insight on to
where you are with your mind andyour work and how you'd like to
progress and to Help people ifthat's what they want to do.
If they want to look a bitdeeper into the animal care, the
horse care.

(01:12:38):
I will put link ups to your bookand your website as I normally
do anyway, and they can contactyou directly with any questions,
we could go into each subjectdeeper, but what happens is we
lose.
where we are.
So like you said, I thinkthat'll be for another
conversation or perhaps weshould do a webinar where people
would like to know more can joinus and maybe do something like

Tomas (01:13:01):
that.
Yeah.
I think there'll be somecomments or questions or
inquiries that can come in.
So if you have a subject or acertain tangent that you think
would be really helpful.
Because I I do ask people a lotof times What do you need the
most help with what's the mostconfusing or what's the biggest

(01:13:23):
stumbling block people areusually pleasantly surprised and
probably along with you, Ronnie,I think we could tag team it
probably pretty effectively and,and work through it.
Find some, find some better waysto to move through it.
And, you know,

Ronnie (01:13:42):
I have to say that just because I do this does not mean
that I get it right, or it'sperfect with my own animals.
I am continually learning and itchanges depends on what's going
on with the horses and what'sgoing on with me when I get
clarity one moment, it canchange.
What could be right one momentcan be not quite right the next

(01:14:05):
moment.
So it's forever evolving, it'snever, you've got it.
There's always a newunderstanding and, and sometimes
the more you learn, the less,you know sometimes ignorant is
bliss, but it isn't really, butsometimes it's that feeling.

Tomas (01:14:24):
That's an okay space to be around and move through as
well and actually helps youabsorb even more at that point
so.
Absolutely.

Ronnie (01:14:34):
Well, thank you so much, Thomas, for coming back and
visiting us.
And it was lovely that we couldactually talk and listen to you
because that's what people comeon for to listen to my guests.
Would you like to say anythingbefore you go?

Tomas (01:14:47):
Well, just ripple on.
You know I'm not gonna pretendto know how big or how small any
sort of ripple might travel orwhere it touches you or who you
might talk to next.
But I trust that it's going togo and we're going to just ring
that bell when we can and thinkabout that, how, what we do

(01:15:08):
really matters.
And that you matter.
Absolutely.
Guaranteed.
I will reflect that right to youin this moment that you matter
if you're listening to this andyou feel that there's something
that you can move forward fromhere with please do and know

(01:15:29):
that if you were to send me amessage or send me a picture
about something you're verylikely to hear back from me.
Whether you do or not, okay,just, just to let you know that
I'm real and hope to see youagain Ronnie's special platform
here.

Ronnie (01:15:48):
Thank you, Thomas.
What a lovely guy.
Lovely guy.
There was lots of subject thereand it was just flowing But it
was scratching the surface.
So as Thomas said, if anybody'sinterested I would like to ask
him some more questions ormyself Please feel free to
contact either of us and I thinkit would be really good to do a

(01:16:08):
webinar so people can actuallyphysically join in and speak to
him face to face.
Thank you for joining, take careand I shall see you soon.
Bye for now.

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Interview with Dr Tomas Teskey - www.insighttoequus.com

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Interview with Dr Tomas Teskey - www.insighttoequus.com