Interview with Jordanna Anawalt - www.choicetribe.com

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Interview with Jordanna Anawalt.
I'm very pleased to announce an interview with Jordanna Anawalt.

I recently came across Jordanna on a podcast with Warwick Schiller (The Journey on Podcast) I found the conversation so engaging, that I decided to send her an email to say how much I enjoyed the conversation and to invite her on as a guest and to my surprise, she replied straight away and accepted my invitation. 

I hope you enjoy this episode, as I loved chatting with Jo and finding out a little more about her work with horses, humans and the knowledge she wishes to share with the world.

Note:
The sound quality may not be as crisp as I would like due to Jo's headset not working on the live stream but it does not distract the message and information that Jo wishes to share.

Jordanna Anawalt.
Jordanna Anawalt is an enrolled Hupa native descending from the Hoopa Valley Tribe of Northern California. She acknowledges that the beautiful Central Oregon land that she currently resides and works upon is the original homelands of the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs who ceded the land in the Treaty of 1855.

Jordanna works as a Congruent Communication Coach with humans and horses, a Medicine Drum Dreaming Guide, an artist, a story holder, and a communication channel for those without spoken language. She is the creator of Equine Experiential InnerStanding™ and the specialisation of CHOICE Horsemanship™. Her work focuses on guiding humans and horses to oneness by revitalising indigenous approaches to live in harmony with the natural world.

From her earliest memories, Jordanna was tuned in to the whispers of the natural world and is a lifelong student of the teachings of the 7-Directions as well as the symbolism contained within The Dreaming. During an out of body experience when she was an adolescent, a being appeared and offered her the following insight: "In every moment, you have a choice. You can choose to live in a story that is created by what's happening to you or you can choose to live in a story where you are the creator of events. Your experience is simply your choice." 

Jordanna traveled to Western Australia, Indonesia, and Hawaii where she was a student of the land and several Medicine Keepers who gifted her the remembering of the Horse as a representation of Nature. When she returned to the PNW, she held a strongly rooted understanding of the need to cultivate a community connection space where the approach to holistic well-being was inspirited by indigenous wisdoms and inspired by the Medicine Horse and her way of life. She made a choice to create what was being called forward and CHOICE Tribe was born.
CHOICE Tribe was founded in 2019 out of a deep admiration and reverence for the Horse alongside Jordanna's indigenous heritage―Hupa―which honors the inextricable connection between the natural world and spirit plane. The programs CHOICE Tribe presents to the world are an embodiment of the original knowing that there is no separation between Nature and the People, because we are Nature.
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Contact Ronnie.

to my podcast, you know I'm agreat fan of Warwick's podcast

(00:21):
and I just loved it, it's soresonated and everything she
said I felt it in my heart too,which a lot of people did and I
thought, Oh, I'd love to chat toher.
Straight away after theinterview, I sent her an email
and she kindly agreed to comeon.
So all I know about Jo is what Iheard on Warwick's podcast and
what we're going to talk abouttonight.

(00:41):
So without further ado, I'llbring her in and she can
introduce herself and explainabout her work and how she works
with horses and how she got intothis.
So I'm going to share with you alittle bit about what it's like
to work in the first place.
So here we go.
I'll bring her in.

Jo (00:57):
Hi.
Thanks for having me on.

Ronnie (01:00):
You are very welcome.
Now, before we start theconversation, you gave me some
information before we started.
So would you like to just toshare that in case you have to
rush off anywhere?

Jo (01:10):
Yes.
I have an elderly horse who ishaving some health issues in the
last 24 hours.
So I'm staring out the windowwatching him and.
If something looks like it'sneeding my attention, I will get
off the call and go attend tohim.
So if there's a sudden stop,that's why, thank you for

(01:30):
understanding.

Ronnie (01:32):
Oh, you're very welcome.
Horses come first.
This is great for you to dothis, but that's not as
important as the horses are.
Okay so would you like toexplain to people first of all,
who you are and how you got intothe horse world?

Jo (01:45):
Yeah, I am a Hupa woman descending from Northern
California.
I currently live in Bend, Oregonand split my time between here
and the homestead that my familyhas in Hawaii.
Horses have been a part of myenergetic being since I was

(02:08):
small.
I was the kid who, when I wasgiven a doll, threw it in the
garbage and went to play with mybriar horses.
And have always had a deepconnection to both animals and
the plant relatives and ourelemental relatives.
So I've been able to hearthrough different modalities of

(02:31):
hearing what our plant, animaland elemental relatives have
said since an early age andhorse was always a guiding,
energy.
Now, I didn't grow up aroundhorses.
We lived in an area and we werein a place in our, our family's
finances where horses were notsomething that were on the

(02:54):
table, but that didn't stop thedraw or hold back the connection
I had to them.
So.
My first horse experienceoutside of, you know, a stable
ride or a pony ride at the fairor running up to fences as a kid
to pet horses over the fence.
Whenever I saw them was when Iwas 15 and my family was in the

(03:20):
middle of some intense,emotional and structural changes
and on my way home from schoolevery day, I drive by this dry
paddock.
And there was this small horseat the time.
I didn't even know terminologyfor horses.
So I now know she was a yearlingand she was all by herself.

(03:45):
And I drive by her every day andshe's beautiful buttermilk buck
skin in color.
And.
I started to develop thisrelationship with her just on
that passed by every couple ofhours throughout the day and I
started to walk my dog downthere and it became my daily way

(04:08):
to step out of what washappening in my family life that
I felt I couldn't escape my walkto go see this horse with that
escape.
And over the course of a fewmonths, I developed a really
strong attachment to her.
I named her, her name was HoneyBee and it got to the point

(04:31):
where even when I would justdrive by and call her name out
of my window she'd whinny andshe'd run up and down the fence
line and I had this feeling likethis, knowing this is my horse.
We didn't have property to havea horse I was 15 and finishing
up grade 12 and working parttime.

(04:52):
And how was a horse going to fitinto this?
But I just knew this is myhorse.
And so things Unfolded in theform of me actually ending up
contacting animal control herein the States would be like the
welfare organization that looksafter animals because this young

(05:14):
horse went from being healthylooking and had weight on her.
And that region of Californiagets really hot in the summer
and she had been no feed.
She was eating sticks out of thetree.
Her water trough had mouth onit.
And she was a bag of bones.
She looked like a skeletonstanding up.
And so I contacted the HumaneSociety and they had someone

(05:37):
come out and assessor and I gotin trouble for beating her hay
over the fence.
I was told you can't do thatanymore.
She's not your horse.
You need to back off.
We're going to find out who ownsher.
So there was no house on thisproperty.
It was just a vacant lot.
They were going to take it fromthere.
So I had to pull back and just.

(05:58):
Drive by her and stop allphysical contact, but I continue
to speak to her across my heart,my heart to her heart.
And after 30 days, which was theperiod they had to hold her
there for, she disappeared.
And I remember the day that Idrove by that lot and there was

(06:20):
no horse anymore.
Honeybee was gone and my wholebeing collapsed and it was a
stronger feeling than it hadbeen up until that point of, I,
that's my horse.
I have to do everything in mypower to find her and to acquire
her.
And I don't know how, but I'llfigure it out.

(06:42):
I spent the next several weeksdriving around that part of the
countryside.
Which I guess was just anassumption, even that she was
still in that area, but I, I didit.
I drove around and I would justcall her name out of my car for
hours at a time.
And I remember the day that Iheard her call back and I could

(07:03):
see way at the back of thisproperty, the tips of her ears
sticking up over this reallytall fence.
And there I was I think I hadturned 16 at that point, but I
marched up to this house andknocked on their door.
You have my horse.
I was, I was very sure and like,this is my horse and that

(07:23):
started a multi monthconversation with this family
who was one very angry with methat I had contacted animal
control, their understanding orlevel of care that they had for
their livestock was differentthan what even the legal
standards are.
But what I thought was Correct.
So I had by calling them ingotten them in trouble.

(07:46):
So they were upset with me.
I was not their favorite person.
I was proclaiming that this wasmy horse and how do I buy her?
I'd like to acquire her.
And that also wasn't, didn't sitwell on their palate, I think.
But I was persistent.
There was this.
This knowing in me that waslike, this is your horse.

(08:08):
You have to do everything tofight for her.
So one day, the one afternoon ontheir doorstep.
Finally the woman says, okay,like we're done with you showing
up here every day.
We will sell her to you for thisamount.
And I was like, no, like that'sway too much.
And no, you haven't even caredfor her.

(08:29):
I'm not going to pay you forthis horse that you're not even
caring for.
Like I'm willing to give her agood home and I'm not a good
negotiator, but I apparently wasa good negotiator that day
because I got them down to avery small adoption fee.
And.
We signed a bill of sale andthen I had to figure out how I

(08:49):
was going to get her home orwhere home even was, because
again, we didn't have horseproperty we didn't have a horse
trailer.
I went into this just followingmy intuition and this impulse
with nothing in placefoundationally to take care of
this animal or horse experienceto even know how to take care of
a horse.
All those pieces fell intoplace.

(09:12):
And I got to bring honeybee homeand that moment in life began
is, is the spark that beganeverything that is choice tribe
with the equine component.
So choice tribe, I reallybelieve started that, that spark

(09:32):
was set into my soul when I was12 years old.
And I tell that story in thework podcast.
It was a.
An experience with a higherbeing when I was hospitalized
for a suicide attempt and choicewas dropped into my soul, but
when honeybee became my bestfriend, when we got to be in
partnership together, I wasgifted the greatest teacher thus

(09:59):
far in my life.
I didn't know at the time thatthese things I found out in the
weeks after I acquired her thatshe was an orphan.
So the reason she was by herselfin that yard was because she
lost her mom when she was 2weeks old.
So she lived by herself from 2weeks onward and then lived on

(10:19):
that piece of property with noother animals at all from 4
months on.
So that created a horse.
Not only did I have no horseexperience, I then adopted this
animal who was more of apredator than a prey animal.
She lived, she was fearful ofeverything, but in a way that

(10:43):
manifested or came outwardly asaggression.
So Honey and I began our journeyand that...
Led us from California to Oregonand to my first horse mentor,
who put me in a situation sat medown on a conversation and said,

(11:06):
you have a choice after she methoney and saw us interact
together.
And she said, this horse wasincredibly dangerous.
She is a predator.
She has very few prey behaviors.
That's because she was orphanedand she had to move from a place
of survival and flight wasn't agood choice.

(11:28):
Fight became the choice that sheneeded to choose and she wasn't
willing to work with Honey andI.
Unless I made the choice, Ichose and committed to doing
everything necessary for thelifetime of this animal to make

(11:48):
sure she felt safe.
And that was the beginning ofwhat I call life lessons with
horses.
I thought it was horse lessonsat the time.
It wasn't horse lessons at all.
It was, it was life lessons.
So over the next few years youknow, and everything that's
unfolded since then, uh,honeybee is 15 now and she lives

(12:11):
on the Hawaii homestead.
She is my, my reflection or mygauge of where I'm at internally
and her life circumstance.
Reflected the circumstances ofmy life and they seem to at each
stage of life that we gothrough.

(12:32):
So honey was my 1st horse, my1st horse experience, and she
required because of her pasttraumas required me to step into
a place that was deeper and at ahigher level of commitment than
anyone else that was in our barnat that time.
This was.

(12:53):
Rehabilitating a wounded soulsouls, because I was also one,
but I didn't, I didn't, again,know that at the time and that
just one horse led to twohorses, which led to more
horses.
And and through a very, veryvast web of.

(13:17):
Signs and symbols andsynchronicities, I've ended up
where I am.
Today, working as a congruentcommunication coach for both
humans and horses, helping usreturn to balance and
reciprocity with the naturalworld.
Since we are in nature.

Ronnie (13:39):
Wow.
Thank you, Joe.
That was beautiful.
I remember bits of that, but I'mstill hearing it with new ears
too, because you can listen tosomething and then you hear it
again and it's slightlydifferent or it has more meaning
or different meaning.
So persistent for you certainlypaid off.

Jo (13:55):
It did.
It did.
And that's quite out ofcharacter, even still for me
unless it's that intuitivefeeling, like this is the thing,
go after this.
Yeah,

Ronnie (14:08):
yeah and you both needed each other.
So I know she wasn't the easiestof horse and you had to delve
deep.
But for you, after what youmentioned earlier, that was
probably something you reallyneeded to, you needed to, to go
to those areas that we don'tnecessarily go to.
And especially as a young, as ayoung woman too.

(14:28):
You know, it's only as you getolder that you start to think,
well, why does that happen?
And you question things and youquestion yourself, when you
start taking responsibility foryour own actions and seeing that
things happened around youbecause of your choices, your
decisions, and it's notanybody's fault, it's just
choices.
When you start to look atyourself, that's when you get.

(14:51):
Insights and things come alongand you have reflections and
animals they touch parts where ahuman can't go, basically, they
get straight to the soul and youwill do things for an animal
that you won't necessarily dofor yourself, although that's
not what they want you to say.
And that's where a lot of horserelationships, whether you ride

(15:14):
or don't ride, whatever you do,animal relationships, they start
you on a particular journey ofopening up.
So can you explain to peoplewhat a congruent, that's a word
I can never roll off the tongue,a communicator is?

(15:35):
What exactly does that mean?
I know what that means, but whatdoes that mean for the viewers
and the listeners?

Jo (15:42):
So I'm going to take us back to the beginning of
communication as animals.
So we enter the world as humananimals, and we receive
information just as all otheranimals in the animal kingdom do

(16:03):
through our sensory system, ourentire sensory system.
So we're taking in informationthrough sound, through sight,
through smell, through taste,through touch, and through
deeper senses that are comingfrom a place of.
Knowing spiritual guidance, whatI have observed and what the

(16:29):
horses continue to share is thatas humans have evolved, as we
have gone from the nomadiclifestyles that we had thousands
and thousands of years ago, aswe domesticated horse, and we
moved into.
More stationary lifestyles wherewe began to build villages and

(16:55):
have agriculture and thenadvance even further to where we
are in the modern world, wemoved away from nature and we
moved away from needing.
To rely upon that sensorysystem, that sensory receptor to

(17:16):
communicate fully, we now rely,and I'm speaking in
generalizations, there are lotsof people and specific cultures
around the world that have notmoved away from this.
Or have been able to keep thevolume of that sensory system

(17:38):
turned up since they were verysmall, but when we're born into
the modern world, most of us.
Start receiving informationthrough that sensory system at a
very, very young age that if youdon't see something, it's not
real.
That there's a period of time asan infant and toddler where it's

(18:01):
acceptable to have imaginationand to see things and to hear
things that aren't visible tosight or touchable.
But then we get to a place wherewe're asked to please quiet
those things down, that they'renot real.
And that's actually our naturalsystem of communication.
So having this conversation withwords is just a fraction of the

(18:27):
way that I can communicate.
with you, with the horses, withthe trees outside, with my
ancestors or those who walkbeside me from higher places.
So what the horses started toshow was that in all of these
different techniques ormethodologies that we would

(18:50):
approach them with, That we'refocused on creating clear
communication, concisecommunication, communication,
grounded in connection, we weredoing it from a place of limited
sensory experiencing.
So, we were taking in most ofthe information through our

(19:13):
eyes.
And through our touch, whatcould we see the horse doing?
What could we, and then when yousee something, that information
comes in, it goes right to thebrain.
It's, it's analyzing, making adecision comparing it back to
something we've seen or creatingsome level of story.
So a story about what couldhappen, what has happened of

(19:35):
patterns, and then we use touchalso.
So we would create touchcommunication with the horse and
use our eyes to receivefeedback.
So, for the most part, most ofthese communication methods with
horses.

(19:56):
For training or teachingpurposes, we're limited to those
two senses and that the horsesasked us to step forward and to
return to that original state ofcommunication, which is using
all of our senses.
To communicate returning back tohow we were designed to come

(20:22):
into the world and communicateoutside of the confines of what
we've, what we've learned orbeen brought up in so congruent
communication is communicatingwith self with others with
environment through the entiresensory system.

(20:45):
And checking or being aware ofthe congruence or reciprocal
nature between all of the sensesbetween all of the way that
information is coming in and we,each individual has a different
set of preferences.
Or senses that are there, themore predominant senses through

(21:08):
which they receive information.
Some people are really visual.
Meaning they get a lot ofimagery or things come into
their minds.
I, some people are reallyauditory.
They, they hear things that comein.
Some people feel things in theirbody, like actual sensations in
their body.
Some people.
Have a knowing that comes in tothe place of center and they act

(21:31):
from there.
Some people are still veryclosely attached to their sense
of smell and taste and receiveinformation that way.
What I help people do isremember, begin to turn the
volume back up on.
What, how, what, how are thosesenses even saying to you when

(21:53):
we take away sight and we allowourselves to drop into our body
and we start to experience theworld through a sense.
So with eyes closed, we listento what's happening around us in
the environment, and we allowall of the physical sounds to
move through our mind, justnoticing, but then we take it

(22:17):
deeper and we begin to listen tothe feeling.
What is the energy signature?
What is the sound telling youabout the environment?
Did the birds go quiet becauseit's rest time?
Did the birds go quiet becausethere's.
A predator in the area.

(22:37):
Are the birds making a differentsound because they're making a
warning call or are they justchatting about daily life
happenings?
There is a energetic frequencyor vibration feeling that's
occurring at all times in theenvironment, and we can tune

(22:59):
into that through differentsenses.
So if you're auditory, you'regoing to be able to use your
senses.
Of sound to really feel what'shappening and take that
information in horses are doingthis all the time and animals
are not just horses.

(23:20):
Animals can lose a sense.
They can move through lifewithout a sense of being non
human animals and adapt.
Fairly well, humans do this too,but we're really afraid of not
being able to see not being ableto hear and not being able to
move our body.
Because we have moved away fromtrusting or even knowing that we

(23:46):
have a highly advanced and keensensory system that will
compensate or step in and makeup for places where we might
Thank you very much.
Have something taken away wherewe might need to fill in the gap
if we don't have sight, ourother senses will step in.

(24:07):
So teaching people how tocommunicate with themselves.
And understand this is how Ireceive information.
I'm really auditory.
I'm really visual.
And then knowing that it'salways a combination of things.
We receive information throughall of our senses, but if you're
a predominant seer, mind's eyeseer, and then you get intuitive

(24:31):
knowings with that, those aregoing to be the way that we
start to structure yourcommunication experience.
with others.
So it started with how do we dothis to get something not from
the horse to build somethingwith the horse because This all
came through the pathway ofcommunicating with horses.

(24:58):
And the horses very clearlysaid, stop.
It's not about us at all.
You can't even begin theconversation with us until you
find congruence in yourself.
So you are able to checkyourself and say, wow, right now
my emotional body and myphysical body are out of
balance.

(25:19):
When we get to a place wherewe're in inner congruence.
We're using our sensory systemto move through our life.
We then are able to startreaching out to create
connection with the horse andconnection with horse or any
other animal or the environmentoccurs when the other, we'll say

(25:43):
horses example, the other isalso congruent.
So there are some times Moreoften than not that we're
working with animals anddomestication that aren't living
in a state.
of congruence when the humanarrives into the situation.
They pull a part of themselvesout of their bodies as a mode of

(26:09):
protection.
Simply, like in the mostsimplest terms, just because
their history with humans isthat We don't understand how to
communicate the way that thenatural world communicates
through these senses as a wholebeing experienced.
So they just pull a little bitof themselves out and say, yeah,
humans here a little bit ofdistance because they don't get

(26:32):
it.
They have forgotten when youshow up to a horse and you say,
Hey, I remember now, look, Icould communicate to you on this
level of congruence withinmyself.
And I'm offering that out to youas a bridge to have connection
with.
The horse might have some stuffthey've got to work through to,

(26:54):
to find congruence.
And so then in the process ofbeginning a connection with a
horse, which I do, I teachpeople by using their primary
sense, primary senses ofreceiving information to begin
to send things to the horsethrough those senses.

(27:15):
And.
The horses then begin to show ushow they receive.
So some horses receive imagesreally well.
Some horses don't.
Some horses receive the, theenergy behind.
Or the intention behind whatwords carry and words don't have

(27:38):
to even be spoke and they canjust be thought some horses feel
things in their body.
So you feel something in yourbody and you send that feeling
over to the horse to share that.
And so we then begin to sharewith the horse that they can
find congruence that we noticethat there's a place of
incongruence when we, as thehuman show up in their

(27:59):
situation.
And that are our purpose inbeing in that relationship with
them.
is purely just to create a placewhere we're both congruent so
that we can connect.
When we get to that place and wecan connect, that's the place
that communication can begin todevelop.

(28:20):
And that was what I struggledfor so many years working with.
Horses and training working as awriting instructor with students
that there was this I felt likethere was like two steps missing
in the staircase.
Like, how do you go from justbeing here and You know I

(28:42):
understand this knowledge about,you know, this is how horses
behave their prey animals.
This is what they do.
This is pressure and release.
Here are all of these thingsscientifically about horses
animals.
Yes, and scientifically abouthumans.
Yes.
But what about the thing that wecan't touch?
We can't see the thing thatcomes from that deep knowing

(29:05):
what about those steps?
Because I, I felt that thosesteps, something about that was
really important.
Okay.
To getting to this place ofcommunication, where the horse
wasn't communicating becausethere was, they had a choice,
they had a choice tocommunicate.
I wanted that and not just toexperience it in my own life

(29:26):
walk, but to be able to sharethat with others and open the
door to say, there's such adeeper level of partnership or
relationship you can have with ahorse.
With your dog, with someone inyour family, with the land that
you live on, and that that wasthat piece of, wow, it's that

(29:47):
congruent communication from thesensory system, from the whole
being, spirit, the senses, thatallows us to connect.
And that we kind of skip thosepieces they're just not
prioritized or held in.

(30:08):
They're just not held inpriority in the majority of the
modern world systems.
And so communication was just alittle fraction of what it could
be.
And it was built from a placethat didn't have true
connection.
Because it didn't havecongruence of self other

(30:29):
environment.

Ronnie (30:32):
Thank you, Joe.
That was beautiful, that wasbeautifully explained.
As you were talking and it wasfunny because sometimes I feel,
sometimes I sense, sometimes Iget a visual, but it's not like
looking at you it's like, it'sjust there.
And there was this sense ofhorses lined up in a semicircle,

(30:53):
sort of nodding.
And then saying, and imaginewhat that's like when you've got
10 people trying to talk to youall at once, and we're all
different and we all communicatein a different way, how
confusing that is.
And that sort of came through asyou were talking but also we
were brought up not to thinklike that in the western world,

(31:15):
you go to school, you get a jobyou learn about all the things
that you think you should knowabout, but you are not taught so
much about feeling, being honestand being able to speak.
In a classroom, you go to schooland you speak certain times
there's a window of opportunity,and if you're not happy about

(31:36):
something, there's not alwaysthe time to explain.
So I'm sort of generalizinghere, it's not like that
everywhere, and I know it'schanged.
And there's mobile phones, theTV, the radio.
We're all guilty of wanting tofill our heads with sound,
distractions, and it's habit,it's habitual.

(31:58):
It's only when you take a breakfrom that and you sit with
yourself or you just allow yourthoughts, which sometimes can be
difficult because if people havethings that need addressing and
that can be little things, bigthings, the thoughts come in and
it's like, I can't do that now.
I can't deal with that now.
I've got a job to do.
I have to do this.

(32:18):
I've got children to look after.
It's all this little chatter.
So we, we get into that routineof not listening.
Thank you.
And it's normally throughsomething major that makes you
listen or puts you in a placewhere you can't move around.
You've literally got to just bein that space when things start

(32:43):
to come forward and you start toYou start to sense things and
then it's then, which if youhave an opportunity to
understand what that is, ifsomebody is with you or
synchronicity, you hear aconversation, you hear a podcast
and it's this little spark, andyou might not even know what

(33:04):
that is, but something's moving.
The wheels are starting to move.
And animals are great at doingthat.
Nature's great at doing that,going for a walk.
So.
We are going in a differentdirection now, but it's trusting
yourself.
It's trusting what you get andunderstanding what that is.

(33:27):
Cause sometimes people think,well, that's my thoughts.
That's my imagination.
How, how do I know that's fromthe animal?
How do I know, you know whatthat is?
Cause it's your voice that youhear in your head.
So explaining that is a bigthing.
It's a big step to say, well,actually, that's how it can
start.

Jo (33:46):
And there, there actually was a point like a moment that
you just explained where Icouldn't move.
That I remember when thisinformation started to trickle
through.
I have to keep laughing when Ispend time with all the horses
that are in the tribe, they dothis thing now where they will

(34:06):
like side I look and I can hearthem laughing like silly human,
like, thank you for being on therole of understanding.
Because I know now that they'vebeen all of the things for the
last 12 years that have beendropping in, furiously writing
in my journal and drawingpictures and figuring out what

(34:26):
is this?
What am I getting?
Like, what is this communicationthat I want to teach?
I mean, I was receiving, but itwas the horses dropping
information and it was coming inthrough my voice.
So I thought it was me.
It was the horses just coming ina recognizable presence so that
I could receive it, which was atthat time, my voice.
Now I know what it's my voiceand when it's.

(34:49):
Someone else sharing somethingon that level, but I had honey
during my teenage years and Inever thought horses were going
to be a career path.
That was the farthest thing frommy mind at that time.
I was a professionalsnowboarder.

(35:09):
And I was, I, I was the coachfor the instructor.
So I coached coaches.
And I taught people movementanalysis, so I taught coaches
how to watch a student on asnowboard, how they move their
body, how the snowboardinteracted with the body, or how
the body affected thesnowboard's movement in the

(35:30):
snow, and taught people how topick out effective and
ineffective movement patterns.
And how to then very quicklylook at it in effective or
effective movement pattern andcome up with a plan on how to
bring that movement pattern intobalance so that you can make the
most effective turn in the snowor, or do the most effective

(35:56):
trick.
And that was what I thought Iwas going to spend the rest of
my life doing.
I love, I love being outside.
I loved being able to use mybody, but that that awareness of
body movements and the effectthat they have on outside object

(36:16):
or how outside forces affect thebody was very, it wasn't in body
practice, but at the time it wasa very cognitive practice.
I relied strongly on myintellect and my ability to see
something and then process it inmy brain and I'm so angry when
that.

(36:38):
Was taken away from me throughan accident an injury.
I had an injury that seeminglycame out of nowhere.
It just appeared one day and Ino longer could perform that job
and I ended up actually in awheelchair for some time and in
a walker and my movement wasstopped and I was grounded at

(36:58):
the barn.
I lived at the stable whereHoney lives.
And I was offered like anapprenticeship or a, my
instructor basically said, doyou want to just come and sit in
the arena and watch me teachlessons?
You're already a coach.
So maybe you can sit out hereand you're Walker.
And watch me teach horse lessonsand you'll start to pick up on

(37:20):
the same types of things youwere able to teach in
snowboarding, but just withhorses, maybe this is the next
thing since you can't do thatanymore.
And that was this point ofreally recognizing the
difference between equestrianactivities and any other sport

(37:42):
on the face of the planet.
Horses are sentient consciousbeings.
They're not snowboards.
They have feelings and thoughtsand bodies, and they are on a
continually evolving path andjourney.
And yes, I could look at a riderand see the angle between the

(38:05):
hip, the knee, and the heel, andthe pitch of the upper torso
forward, and know that it wascreating X, Y, and Z in the
horse during sitting trot.
Like, I could see the movementshappening, but it was different
now, because I wasn't talkingabout...
I wasn't making thoseanalyzations with a inanimate

(38:30):
object, like a snowboard or thesnow it was another moving
animal and this is now anembodied practice.
Like I actually have to feelinto like, what does that feel
like in my body as the horse isexperiencing that?
What are they trying to shareprobably with the rider's body?
What kind of images, what is thetransaction of communication

(38:53):
going back and forth?
And that was where I, I feltlike there was those missing
steps in the staircase, like,wait, so you can't just create a
movement, make a choice, createa body movement.
And then say that that'scommunication.
So I'm incredibly grateful for,for my injury for having to be

(39:13):
stopped and from making thattransition, which is an
awareness from, wow, I reliedupon my intellect.
I relied upon knowing I couldsee something, which meant I
could trust it and then I couldmake a choice from there to
having that stripped away andhaving to learn how to
acknowledge that.
Yes, I see something that makessense.

(39:37):
On an intellectual level, butnow I need to go deeper.
What does it feel like?
What if I couldn't see it?
Would I still be able to pick upon what was going on?
And how do we, if it's happeningfor me, it's got to be happening
for other people.
How do we make thattranslatable?

(39:58):
How do we begin?
To open people back back up tothat.

Ronnie (40:04):
Thank you, Joe.
Once again, I'm sorry, but thishappens quite often when people
are talking, but it's comingquite quick with you.
As you were talking, this horsecame forward and said, please
tell them about this.
And a scenario is, sometimesthere will be a horse carrying a
rider and the rider may not beable to sit or have their body

(40:30):
in a certain way and this horse,this particular horse's
experience was saying that Imove Myself and carrying myself
in a way to enable the rider tobe comfortable and to feel at
ease at that moment butsometimes that's seen by the
observer as I'm movingincorrectly, I am but if I move

(40:55):
correctly for me, the personwill not maintain that position
and that's come really strong.
And they wanted me to share thatwith the listeners.
I know you're aware of thatanyway and also it's like,
there's a group, but this wasone that came forward.
sometimes things cannot be seenwith the naked eye.
And that's why we ask you, we,the horses, ask you to feel

(41:21):
within yourself and trust thatfeel because with the best
intentions people can say thisis what you should do but you
need to feel that within andthat's where the connection
becomes stronger and becomesAvailable to you as an

(41:42):
individual yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
So, sorry, I didn't mean tointerrupt you, Jen.

Jo (41:50):
No, I mean, what you just said is spot on from what I
received from them.
And as I continue walking myjourney alongside both the
physical horses, but then alsohorse, the big horse out there
My understanding is continuallyevolving and shifting and

(42:11):
changing, and there was a pointin my journey where I was like,
no more writing.
No, like, we're done with all ofthis.
No writing no tack.
We still don't use equipment,but none of this and I recently
had 1 of my guildings come up tome and he was like, You know,
you could put a halter on usnow, if you needed to, we now

(42:33):
know that, you know, that wehave a choice and that you'll
honor the choice.
But it was you as the humans whoneeded all of this time to not
have equipment to restrain us.
So you could learn to know whatour choices were and to honor
our choices.
That was a fun bar.
But what they have shown onehorse in particular.

(42:54):
He's a Oregon Mustang who's beenin captivity for the last 16
years, and he's quite aphenomenal individual, but he
came forward a few months agoand he said, what you saw in the

(43:15):
journey, I took a drum journeyseveral years ago, and I ended
up in a place, uh, that I no aslike the timeline of existence
and I moved along that timelineand I was brought to this place
and I was shown the symbol likea pictograph of a horse and I
reached out to grab it and Igrabbed it.

(43:36):
I had this overwhelming sensethat merged into my whole being,
uh, horses and humans have aninfinite energetic contract to
work with one another and thatpart of my purpose in this life

(44:00):
is to be able to show otherhumans by creating space for
horses that we have a deeperconnection to the horse than
physical interaction with themthere's something that contract

(44:23):
that we have between humans andhorses is a contract about
staying in balance with nature.
So this one Mustang a few monthsback during a session is like,
well, you know, that we're notfrom here, right?
What do you mean?
You're not from here?
And he's like, well, we'recelestial beings from a galaxy

(44:44):
far away, you'll never knowwhere you won't ever see it but
we agreed to come here and overthe millennia that Earth has
existed, we've come in differentforms but we've always carried
the energy of horse and ourcontract with you, our agreement
is to basically hold space forthe humans while they learn and

(45:04):
they go through this lesson ofcoming back into the embody
knowing that we are nature.
There is no separation betweenhumans and nature between horses
and nature between humans andthe earth.
We are the earth.

(45:25):
The earth is us.
And that there will be timesthat they are willing and they
accept that in part of thatcontract or that role that they
are serving out with us.
We have had to go through and weare going through the acts of

(45:48):
taking away choice from horse,the acts of dominance of horse,
and then beginning to shift ourawareness and become accountable
so that the paradigm aroundhorses and horse activities can
shift.
They will tolerate is not theright word, but like your
example between the horse movinga certain way to be able to

(46:11):
allow the rider to feel.
Horses have this responsibilityon a deep, historical timeline,
soul contract level of steppingin to allow us to learn how to
feel and feel is not just whatyou feel from your hands in the
reins how to feel, how to feelfrom the heart, how to feel from

(46:34):
the place of center behind thenavel, how to feel with the
entire physical body and sensorysystem.
So, yeah they step into placeswhere they will make sacrifices
and although they're allindividuals here on the planet,
they are here carrying theenergy of that bigger wisdom,

(46:55):
wisdom that is horse.

Ronnie (46:59):
Yes, absolutely.
When we talk in that way,sometimes people might start to
switch off thinking, oh, okay,here we go again it doesn't mean
to say that they're all treatedbadly and we get them, we ride
them, we do things with them.
Yes, we do.
It's.
It's giving them a choice, likeyou said earlier.

(47:19):
And sometimes if you say, thisis your choice, you don't have
to do that.
Or let's see what's morecomfortable or what's more
acceptable.
What are you more comfortableat?
What's your passion for you?
Then they may say, well, I don'twant to do too much of that, but
actually today I'll do that withyou.
Cause I know that's what youwant, you're excited about that.

(47:41):
So sometimes when you give thema choice, they almost give you
back what y'all but you have todo that generally.
It's not like, well, I reallywant to do that, but I'll let
you do that.
If you don't want to, when youmean, actually, I really want to
do that.
You've got to generally say I'mprepared to not do that.
If that's not what you want,does that make sense?

(48:02):
I'm not sure I explained

Jo (48:04):
That's acting from a space of congruence of being accepting
you can.
You can hold a desire or a goal,an outcome, but being unattached
to the timeline on which itoccurs and on knowing that if
you're going to offer a choiceout, just if you offer a choice

(48:26):
out to a human, it's sometimesgood to reframe the way we think
about our relationships withhorses and the way we think
about our relationships Withother humans or even with our
domestic household pets, becausewe treat them quite differently
than we treat horses.
And that if you put a choice outto another human and you might

(48:53):
want them to make a certainchoice, but if you're saying,
but I accept whatever choice youmake, and then you're upset that
they made the choice that youdidn't really want.
Well, you weren't really sayingthat they had a choice you were
like, I'll say what you want tohear, but your words.
Or your actions didn't matchyour feeling.
That's incongruence in the self.
And that's the place that horsessay, we need you to learn how to

(49:15):
be congruent when you act from aplace of congruence.
We are willing to connect withyou in a place that we can then
communicate and they will dothings, even if they're
sometimes outside of what theyreally want to do, because they
see that the human is in a placeof feel of authenticity of

(49:37):
congruence and that that is partof their bigger purpose here to
help us come back into that.

Ronnie (49:45):
And as a human even if it's with a friend, you know
when you've said something butyou don't really mean it because
you just feel it.
And normally the person thatyou're talking to feels that
too.
So you understand that, butthat's actually, that's actually
a good thing because if yourecognize that, you recognize
what That feel is like thatyou're actually not telling the

(50:08):
truth to yourself, so you're nothonoring yourself because
actually it's not what youreally want, it's not what
you're saying.
As you said, your words have adifferent vibration to what's
actually coming out.
So that's a good thing, becauseif you look at that.
You start to know, well, ifsomebody says to me, are you
okay with your horse, are youscared of your horse?

(50:30):
You go, of course not, but youfeel actually I am and I
shouldn't be.
So if you think, well, I knowI'm not telling myself the
truth, what is that?
Is it because I'm scared offalling off?
No, that's not the case.
So what is it?
Is it because I'm scared oflooking silly?
No, that doesn't feel right.
So what is it?
And that's how you start to askquestions to yourself and there

(50:54):
isn't a book really that you cango, okay, that's the first
lesson that's what I'm doing,right?
Or that's what I'm doing wrong.
It's understanding what it isfor your feel.
And we've all got that skill.
We've all got that.
It's in our DNA.
It's in ourselves.
It's in our whole being.
It's in our energy.
So it's there.

(51:15):
When we acknowledge it, that'swhen things come forward and
start to, to highlight, i.
e.
you go towards a horse and youthink, I'm going to have a fun
day today, and the horse runs upthe field and say, not on me,
you know, because they can sensesomething coming, it's like you
just have to pull back andthink, okay, where am I?
Where's my energy?

(51:35):
What was I thinking?
And you might not get theanswer, but it's being prepared
to just ask the question and seehow that unfolds.

Jo (51:48):
Yeah.
It's the first step is becomingaware and it's awareness of self
so what are my thoughts?
What are my feelings?
What are the stories I tellmyself that I might not even
realize I've been telling myselffor a long time because it's
just a story that's been aroundsince I was young.
Does that story actually existin my life?

(52:09):
No.
Why am I living by the outlineof that story?
When you become aware of self,Then you can start becoming
aware of others.
You can become aware of theenvironment and the relationship
dynamic or the exchange betweenself other collective or
environment.
And then you sit in what myexperience has been is that you

(52:33):
sit in awareness.
For quite some time, humans needa long period of having an
awareness and having anawareness deepen and become an
awareness from many differentperspectives, from many
different sets of shoes beforewe can become accountable to an
awareness where we can say,okay, I got to do something to

(52:57):
shift this, or this is not whatI want anymore.
Why am I feeling this way?
Sometimes it's really what'shappening outside of us.
Like why do these situationskeep cropping up in my life?
Why do people keep treating me?
Why does the horse keep runningaway?
All horses do this.
That we didn't say, okay, so I'maware that there's something
going on and I'm ready to becomeaccountable to that.

(53:18):
So I'm going to start learninghow to take actions to be
accountable to my awareness.
And that, that just continues toevolve into a place where you
can then act from a place ofalignment where your actions in
regard to that one awareness.
So knowing that every aspect ofour life is a different, it's

(53:41):
one little awareness in the bigweb of awareness.
And then when you become awareof something, you can then
eventually become accountable toyour awareness.
And then you can become activelyaligned where your choices all
the time line up with what youbelieve physically, emotionally,
mentally, spiritually, and thenyou move into that place of

(54:01):
attunement there's not anyeffort that has to be put into
it.
It's become a part of yourbeing.
That awareness and how you wantit to be present in an authentic
way.
But at every moment of life, wehave hundreds, if not thousands
of different awarenesses thatwe're somewhere in that cycle of

(54:23):
bringing into attunement ofbecoming accountable to.
And the horses offer us justsuch a beautiful opportunity, a
beautiful space to get toexplore that because, We can
come to awarenesses aboutourself or relationships.
We might have situations wemight be engaged in without

(54:47):
having a feeling ofconfrontation because the horse
is willing to hold space.
The horse reflects back in anauthentic way what we are
navigating and moving through.

Ronnie (54:59):
Thank you, Joe.
And it's not about beingperfect, is it?
They don't expect us to beperfect, because no, we're not,
they just want us to try and tomake a start.
So, if somebody is listening tothis now or listen to the audio
later and they've got a horseand they're just going through
the normal things that they do.

(55:21):
And they'd like to make achange, but you can't change
everything overnight and howtheir life is and how the
horse's life is might notpresent that straight away, what
would you suggest that theycould do to start themselves on
their own path opening up tocommunication and to that deeper

(55:43):
understanding, that deeperconnection with their horse.

Jo (55:47):
To begin a practice to connect with themselves through
nature.
So I find just sitting outsideor walking outside, being out in
nature and choosing a specificsense.
So I am going to take my shoesoff and walk around on the lawn.

(56:13):
I know that there's nothing Ican run into, so I'm going to
choose that one somewhere safe,but I'm going to be barefoot and
I'm going to close my eyes orwear a blindfold.
And I'm going to experience whatit's like to move through time
and space, relying upon my senseof touch and notice what does
that bring up?

(56:34):
When I put the blindfold on, didI right away feel fear, lack of
control, questioning if I can dothis?
What if I hit something?
And then being able to juststart to have the awareness to
say, wow, that's an interestingstory.
I'm in the middle of the grass.
There is nothing I can run into.
It is soft and cookie.

(56:56):
I am safe.
I can do this.
And just continuing through avery simple practice of
connecting to nature and selfthrough senses.
You can do this by sitting upagainst a tree, eyes closed,
listening.
Wow, the birds are so beautifuland the stream is making such a

(57:18):
beautiful sound.
Gosh, why is there a childcrying over there in the
background of the park?
Like just noticing like thatbrought up agitation.
Why, what is that?
Why exploring what having selfawareness is and a really doing
it through nature and sensoryexperiencing combined has come

(57:43):
to be a very in.
What we've been practicing herewith with choice tribe students
is a very accessible way tobegin to open to yourself to be
able to understand withoutgetting really in your mind

(58:04):
without having any feelings ofexternal judgment and of being
able to catch yourself when theinner critic comes out.
Because nature is just as thehorse because they are nature is
such a nurturing and embracingcontainer.

(58:24):
So when you step into a place ofsaying, I want to learn how to
be more self aware, and I'mgoing to ask nature to be my
partner and my support system,and I'm going to use my senses
to be my guide, you get toexperience.

(58:47):
What the human animal, like theessence, the essential essence
of the human animal experienceis, and just that place starting
there, really beautiful to seehow everybody unfolds
differently, but how theexperience of connecting with
nature through the senses.

(59:10):
It's very much the same becausewe are all nature.

Ronnie (59:16):
It's beautiful.
I'll quite often take my shoesand socks off and walk around
the field, I pick an area that'snot too bad.
it always makes you feel like achild.
When you go to the beach, ifyou're walking on the sand and
you can feel your feet sinkinginto the sand and if the water's
coming up it just takes yourattention somewhere else and it

(59:37):
does make you feel like you'vegone back in time into being a
child without the cares.
And I think that's a lot of it,it's stepping out of that busy
head.
and all the things that go withthat and quieting down.
And also when you do that yourthoughts slow down your speech
can slow down.

(59:58):
I'm sure you've found this, youcan be having a conversation,
you've had a busy day and youcan be talking to somebody, but
then I'm very conscious when myvoice slows down, I know this
information coming through andit doesn't matter it can be a
conversation about anything, butI know it's flown through as it
should do and you can feel that,but that's being aware for me

(01:00:22):
over time, I know that's mysign, that's what that is and
that's what I say to people isyou won't know until you start
using it because it's like amuscle it has To know that
you're opening to it.
It's like a radio signal You'retrying to find the right
frequency and you can just hearsomething But unless you play

(01:00:43):
around with the dial and youactually get it on there The
rest of the sound the musicwon't come through.
And for me if I don't see thatfirst word it's like a plug,
once I say the word, the restcomes through or the feeling
comes through.

Jo (01:01:00):
It's the awareness though.
You were just speakingconnecting, having that, that
very present experience walkingon the beach, it allows you to
move into your body to bepresent, which opens you to
receive it.
Being aware you are in a body,but your body is also inhabited
by an energy, and the senses andit's like all of these little

(01:01:24):
satellites or radars.
Looking for information.
And when you start to becomeaware of like, wow, when I'm
walking on the beach, I feelthis overwhelming emotion or I
get these images of these timesin my life when I was really
calm like you start to notice,wow, I have a lot of imagery
going on.

(01:01:45):
Oh, I get a lot of feelingsgoing on.
It's just those awareness thatyou have when you're connecting
with nature they're pointingyou, they're little signs
saying, look there.
Yeah.
That's how we're talking to you.
Everything is talking to you allthe time.
Pay attention to the way it'scoming through.

Ronnie (01:02:02):
Thank you.
Thank you for making that veryclear, Jo.
I know what I was going to say,sometimes you don't want to look
silly, so it's fine if you're onyour own, some people, to let go
And allow that process, allowthat fun side to come through,
allow that silly side to comethrough can be difficult for
some people but it doesn't haveto be it doesn't have to be

(01:02:26):
bells, drums, crystals, itdoesn't have to be that way,
sorry, but it doesn't, it can bea walk in the park, It can be
sitting, as you said, next to atree or on a bench and just
watching a squirrel go up atree, watching a leaf just blow
across a pathway, just losingyourself in that moment.

(01:02:46):
Not all spiritual essences areabout It's about you.
Gurus and, monasteries, it'severywhere in life.
It's everywhere.
And we've got the choice to tapinto that, and it's there for
everybody.
It's not for the rich, it's notfor the famous, it's for
everybody.

(01:03:07):
Everything.
If we just open up to that and,and allow just a little doorway,
that's all your being, all yoursoul is asking is just let me
in, just let me in a little bitand I'll show you this another
way.
And that's all you have to do.
You don't have to know the whys,hows, just trust that that will

(01:03:27):
be enough.
You're giving yourselfpermission to see another way of
being and going through thislife and that's what horses,
animals and people too, aregreat at showing us, but not
always in the way we'd likesometimes.

Jo (01:03:45):
Yeah, that's true.

Ronnie (01:03:47):
The best teachers are sometimes the ones you don't
want.

Jo (01:03:51):
Yes.
Yes.

Ronnie (01:03:53):
Is there anything else you'd like to chat about while
you're on?

Jo (01:04:01):
Yeah, let me think for a moment on that.
I love that I get to hold spaceand walk alongside humans in
this journey.

(01:04:22):
And I'm going to I went to.
I thought I started thinking ofhorses, not actually people.
So a story, which is, it's kindof like the story of the
evolution of choice tribe.
It's all the horses that are ina part of the herd, both here in
Oregon.
I also have a herd in Hawaii,and then.
I have clients who have smallchoice herds at home at their

(01:04:46):
properties and the journey orthe story of watching horses
learn and accept and acknowledgethat we as humans are giving
them a choice and then beingable to watch how each of them

(01:05:08):
as individuals grows thank you.
The way that the horse navigatesthat experience has been if
there's parallels and how humansdo it, and then it's really
fascinating to see when a humanarrives at the campus to
interact with the herd, whichhorse or horses choose to go and

(01:05:31):
interact with that person andwithout having any background
knowledge on that horse andtheir personality or their
experience.
There's this naturalgravitational pull and they have
very resonant journey.
So when we started giving horsesa choice, we got experiences all

(01:05:53):
across the board.
I had horses that were the most.
Well behaved, obedient, highlytrained schoolhorses, but any
I'd let anybody handle thatwouldn't bad not two year old
child, 90 year old in awheelchair like this horse.
They're like, I know my job.
I'm calm.

(01:06:14):
I'm quiet.
I love being brushed.
And some of those horses, whenwe gave them a choice, were
like, Oh yeah, bye, you know,kicking up and didn't let humans
touch them for six months to twoyears.
I was like, we're done.
And then there was other horseswho were also well behaved,

(01:06:36):
obedient, who withdrew andrather than having this very
outward, like, I have a choicenow and my choice of no, they
kind of withdrew and theystepped back and they observed
everything and they were verytentative about making choices
in the presence of humans it waslike one hoof in the water,

(01:06:56):
like, oh, I'll try it nope.
Not going to try that yet.
And then others who just like,cool.
All right.
We got a choice.
Yeah.
Great.
You guys figured it out so wecan just continue on with life
there was no real change andthrough that experience, which
we're now in year for, themajority of the herds that are

(01:07:22):
within my world are 4 years intohaving a choice and we get some
new ones in from time to time,some new horses that join.
But getting to watch that andthen seeing where there are
still issues, like still hurtsor behaviors that seem

(01:07:45):
incongruent.
They seem out of alignment withthe personality of that
individual or the environment,like it just comes and you're
like, that's still so strangethat that's occurring.
And now getting to be in thisplace where we're recognizing
that just like the people thatare coming in to interact in

(01:08:05):
these programs who might havemaybe big T traumas, little T
traumas, but are coming withsomething.
We all have stuff that we'reworking through.
The horses they have stuff thatthey're working through that
they're holding on and they areno longer just holding it
They're now able to look at usand say I need help you now have

(01:08:29):
the skills You now have thelevel of congruence and
connection to be able tocommunicate with me Can you
support me while I work throughthe trauma of my gelding?
Can you work through and bethere while you help me release
the cords that I have connectedto the foal that I lost when she

(01:08:50):
ran through a fence.
And so those stories, thoseexperiences that we're now as
humans, getting to hold spacefor these horses is so special
because it, that is feelsreciprocal.
It's no longer just like, horse,how can you help me?

(01:09:14):
It's Hey, I can actually holdspace and be your support system
as you navigate this.
Just like I would be for afriend or someone that I love.
It's, it's that reciprocity inthe relationship.
And so those types of stories,and we do have a mayor right now
who we're working with she losta foal the foal ran into a wire

(01:09:38):
fence and got caught and itspent all night trapped in the
fence.
And she stood with it before itwas found in the morning and
they had to use the night.
And that was 15 years ago.
And she has held onto that.
And as she's working throughthat and releasing that the
changes in her personality, thechanges in her mannerisms and

(01:09:59):
her behaviors.
She's a completely differenthorse so all of these judgments
or labels that were placed onthis mare for the last 15 years,
they were rooted in this verytraumatic experience, but
because humans up until thispoint in her life, couldn't hear

(01:10:21):
her, couldn't understand whatshe was saying, because no
humans have put in the time tolearn how to communicate.
The way that the natural worldhas designed us to communicate,
she acted from this place thatwas themed naughty or bad
behavior, ill tempered.
She was all of these things andthat in itself, having those

(01:10:44):
labels was painful to her.
You know, so we've got horseswith these stories and when you
get humans to a place where theycan, they can use their whole
sense of self, their whole beingto communicate the stories that
the horses are beginning toshare are just magical to be

(01:11:08):
able to, to be in a relationshipwith them in that way.
So I love the work I do withhumans because it gets us to
that point and what a beautifulplace the world is growing into
where more and more people arewanting to be able to have that
level of connection with theirhorse, you know, so many horses

(01:11:29):
will have that.
So.

Ronnie (01:11:31):
Absolutely.
And there was so many differentexamples as you was explaining
there, that once the horse knewthey had a voice, some were
like, Oh, okay, great and otherswithdrew into themselves and
others just went by.
We sometimes have this visionthat when we say that, that they
go, Oh, thank God you'relistening.

(01:11:51):
Okay.
What is it you'd like me to do?
And it's not like that.
And sometimes you might neverget to a point where they will a
hundred percent let you inbecause their world and their
trauma and their things, it's upto them when they show that and
when they're ready to let go,but it is linked altogether.

(01:12:14):
And sometimes the horse has akey and sometimes we have a key
and you get two peopleenergetically together and
there'll be click, okay, andsomething will happen.
It could be lovely things andsometimes it's things you think,
okay, but it shows yousomething.
It shows you something aboutyourself and it shows you

(01:12:34):
something about the horse andit's fascinating because You
can't say that if we do A, B andD, we will get this result
because it can't work that way.
It's not mathematical.
It's energetic and it has itsown timeframe.

(01:12:55):
It has its own evolving whereit's going to go and maybe
there's reasons that we are notable to see yet, because if we
did, we wouldn't take thatparticular path.
We wouldn't read the book ifwe'd got to the end and knew how
it finished, we'd just put itdown.
We wouldn't experience it, wewouldn't learn about ourselves,

(01:13:18):
because as we learn aboutourselves, we learn about the
world, the animals, and thepeople around us.
Because I'm sure you know,anyway, that lots of people that
work with horses and deal withhorses, they'll see their
relationships change with theirfriends and their partners, and
they're more amicable or they'remore understanding.

(01:13:39):
Doesn't mean to say they have asmile on their face every day
and everything's fine, butthey're able to go through this
emotions and let them go easierthan they could before, which is
a huge, huge thing for humans todo.
Yeah.
Well, it's been fascinatingspeaking to you, Joe I've been

(01:14:01):
very conscious because I knowyou've got a horse that you want
to go check on.
So there's lots more questions Icould ask you and to go a bit
deeper than we have already, butwe've gone quite deep.
So if you'd like to say aparting few words, Jo.

Jo (01:14:17):
Well, thank you so much for reaching out.
You were one of the first peoplethat contacted me after the
Warwick podcast aired and it'sbeen really beautiful to see the
word that has come over and overand over is resonance and that

(01:14:38):
you're holding space on thispodcast to share experiences and
ideas that will resonate withothers and that those resonances
are what connect us and connectthe horses and connect us back
to nature so thank you so muchfor creating and holding this
space and I'm just reallygrateful to have been able to

(01:15:02):
share with you today.

Ronnie (01:15:03):
Oh, thank you, it was pretty quick, I must say, I
don't think I've done thatbefore not that quick and I was
really surprised when I got ananswer so thank you.
So thank you so, so much, Joe.
I hope your horse is okay.
So if you'd like to say bye tothe listeners and the viewers.

Jo (01:15:19):
Thank you everybody, have a beautiful day.

Ronnie (01:15:23):
Bless her.
And what a lovely, lovely lady.
So if you haven't heard thepodcast with Warwick Schiller go
and have a listen to it.
Warwick himself said he was justsitting back and listening and
she had this beautiful voice.
We did have a headset on earlybut it didn't work so, but the
sound was fine and that's what'smore important.
If you have any questions, allthe links to Joe's website is at

(01:15:45):
the end of this video.
And I'll also put it on thepodcast too, if you want to
contact her, I'm sure she'll bemore than happy to hear from
you.
Thank you for stopping on by.
Hope you well.
Take care and bye for now.
Thank you.