November 14, 2024 • 34 mins
Interview with Leslie Desmond.
I was so excited when Leslie agreed to join me on my podcast, especially as she is such a busy lady, who often travels around the globe for her work.
Unfortunately due to a few technical issues, the quality of the recording was not audible in a few places throughout the session, which made it a little difficult to edit.
However, I am pleased to say I have managed to edit most of those parts out and although the recording is a little shorter than I would have liked, you can still appreciate the essence and passion of Leslie's character and the amazing work she does, with horses and people all over the world.
So sit back, relax and I hope you enjoy this short episode with the very talented and knowledgeable, Leslie Desmond.
Note:
Please note, some of the upcoming events Leslie mentioned will have passed due to the timing of getting this podcast out.
It was recorded before the events took place.
For further information on Leslie and her work go to her website links below.
https://www.feelofahorse.com
https://lesliedesmond.horse
Video version (alongside applicable podcasts) can be viewed on facebook and YouTube.
https://www.facebook.com/equinevoices.co.uk
https://www.youtube.com/@equinevoicesuk
https://www.instagram.com/equinevoices.uk
Contact Ronnie.
mailto:equinevoicesronnie@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ronnie (00:01):
Hello, and welcome to today's episode with the
amazing, talented LeslieDesmond.
Now this podcast is shorter thanI would have hoped.
and that's due to the editingbecause of a few technical
issues on Leslie's end.
The Sound quality was not thatbrilliant at times, towards the
(00:23):
end, and there's parts of itthat are good, but I was
struggling to hear what, as hewas saying, because it kept
cutting out, which made it verydifficult to do live interview,
if you can appreciate that.
I felt a bit disjointed at thebeginning because I was already
aware, it was either work or itwouldn't because of that
technical stuff and once a guesthas committed to coming on, I
(00:44):
don't want to say, oh, we're notdoing it now.
I was hoping that it would workout.
So what I've done is edited allthe stuff that's non
comprehendable.
And hopefully you'll get a feelof Leslie's character.
She's an amazing woman, she's inher seventies and she has done
so much in her life.
She's traveled so far literallyand personally and what she
(01:11):
doesn't know about horses isn'tworth mentioning.
So I hope you take this as youfind it, take what you can from
it, and just let you know thatwe will be doing another get
together, live or we'll do arecording, but she's got a
wealth of knowledge and it's ashame because as we got towards
(01:33):
the end of the conversation, herpassion was coming through and
when she's talking her facelights up and there's this
childlike spark in her, thisenthusiasm, which is beautiful
to see and beautiful to hear tooSo bear with me through this
session, I hope you join usagain because she's a
fascinating woman.
(01:53):
She speaks as she finds, Shedoesn't hold back.
But it's her knowledge and herpassion that gives her that that
drive.
yeah, so sit back, relax, and Ihope you enjoy this taster
episode.
Good evening.
(02:14):
I am so sorry for the delay.
We had a few technical problems.
Leslie's in an area where thesignal is not that brilliant.
So hopefully fingers crossed.
We can have a conversation.
So without further ado I willbring the very patient, very
lovely Leslie Desmond in.
Leslie (02:33):
Thank you.
I'm Leslie Desmond, long timetime horse lover and actively
involved with horses since ayoung age and I've been at this
a while and had many mentorsthat were meaningful to me and,
taking the best that I could andleft the rest.
What didn't fit I leave behindwhat does work.
(02:54):
I appreciate so greatly.
And fortunately, great, greatpeople have taught me some very
useful things.
If I can be of any help today,please.
Ask away.
Ronnie (03:06):
Thank you.
So would you like to start bytelling us how you got into
horses?
So, you started pretty young youwas four?
So was that while you were stillin Germany?
Leslie (03:18):
No, no, I came over earlier than that.
No, I had my first ride.
At four years old and I onhorses, and just holding onto
the hair.
Ronnie (03:27):
Leslie, you was dropping in and out there so I could only
hear little bits so I doapologize.
We're both in an area that'squite remote.
So the signals challenging tosay the least.
Leslie (03:39):
I'm ready now.
I've got a pen you'll have toread the questions if any are
asked because I couldn't find myglasses.
I'm sorry.
Ronnie (03:47):
I know you've got a busy schedule because we tried to get
this before you went away, Iknow you said you was going away
for quite a while.
Did I get that right?
Leslie (03:56):
Going away just means I'm traveling.
all have phones, so I'm I'm notI'm not unreachable.
I have a background in horsetraining and I have a background
in jumping and I have abackground in several riding
styles.
I've worked with all kinds ofhorses for years.
(04:19):
Most of my life.
So I started training since whenI was 10 for my uncle.
We would get horses at theauction for his summer camp and
he would buy them based on colorand just tell me to have them
ready they couldn't buck anybodyoff.
So that's how I got my starttraining horses.
(04:42):
training horses for him that hebought at the auction.
Some were trained, some werestarted, some were unstarted
when I was about 5th grade.
Ronnie (04:49):
The question that I did write down was when you talk
about horses, what do they meanto you?
What do they bring to your life?
We can all say, Oh, I lovehorses.
I like riding.
I like doing this.
But what does that bring in yourlife when you're around horses?
Leslie (05:06):
Well, it gives me something to do that I'm good
at, and that I enjoy, andhelping them in any way is my
purpose.
I I work on their bodies, theirfeet, their teeth, I, I help the
owners that are new to horses,been doing that all my life.
I work with people that are atthe top of their skills and
stock, people who have reached aplateau.
(05:27):
I work with people that arefrustrated, people that are, you
know, Hopeful people that are1st time voice owners.
I I understand them pretty welland I help people get to a point
where they can leave theirfrustration and their concerns
and a lot of money going out.
That doesn't need to be goingout unnecessarily.
Nowadays, it seems like peoplejust spend money on horses.
(05:48):
They're not riding for allvarious types of stuff.
On some, you know, weekly orbiweekly stipend to fix up this
or that.
And so I tried to help peopleunderstand how to get away from
the dependency on.
Get get more hands on so thatthey can.
Keep more money in their pocket,be a little more independent and
(06:11):
look at their horses as healthy.
Instead of ailing and in needof.
You know, many kinds of servicesand there's lots of good service
and good help out there, but I,I tend to end up with calls
quite often from people that arejust at the end of their idea
about what to do, because Idon't know why, but it's not
(06:32):
working for them anyway.
I, I tend to be.
One of the, one of the lastpeople called, I wish I were the
first, but I'm not, I'm usuallythe last, but that's okay.
I do, I do have a, I do have apretty big circle that I go on a
(06:53):
big, a big loop I do around theworld and around the country
periodically, quite oftenactually.
Ronnie (07:00):
You did a trip to the UK recently, didn't you?
You was in the UK.
Leslie (07:05):
This year and last year, and often.
Yes.
I'm there often.
I have a lot of nice peoplethere.
Yes.
I was in Scotland and Irelandbefore that.
And and then I just went abroadto you know, there, it just,
it's a.
35 years.
Ronnie (07:23):
That's a, that's a long time.
That's a lot of work, Leslie.
Leslie (07:27):
A lot.
I enjoy it.
Yes.
Ronnie (07:29):
When you come to the UK, do you find, do you find that a
lot different that you'represented with?
So not the horses, obviously,but expectations or questions,
do you find it different fromthe people that you may be
visiting there in the States oris it generally the same?
Leslie (07:47):
No, it isn't the same.
Most people in the UK dependingon their age came up through
Pony Club and the British HorseSociety or they were learning
from Monty Roberts's system oryou know, one of the more
popular things that took thecountry by storm in the mid 90s
You know, but that, that's, Imean, and that effect wasn't
(08:11):
just limited to the UK, butthere's more of a preponderance
of people that were joining upand using that lingo.
And then there were, that sortof was a laid over the British
horse society background and soon.
A lot more jumping and a lotmore confidence in the riders in
the UK because they get startedyounger than in the States.
(08:32):
You know, and you have horses asa way of life a lot longer.
I know that when you stopped foxhunting in Europe, when you
stopped fox hunting, I thinkthat was under Tony Blair, shut
that down.
Didn't he?
You know, that's fine, whatever,but it sure changed things.
And yeah I'd say that people inthe UK and Ireland and Scotland
are a lot more comfortablearound animals.
(08:54):
And about dogs, a lot more laidback about having pets and a lot
more realistic than in otherplaces per se.
I'm not trying to comparethings, but you asked me to
compare them, so I did.
Ronnie (09:07):
Jumping is something that is never really drawn me
jumping.
I think the size of the jumpsthat you get the horses to jump
over is like, crikey, they'rebigger than me.
Which doesn't take a lot causeI'm only tiny.
But hacking out or as you calltrail riding.
That's more my interest.
So you also do dentistry, do youdo feet as well?
Leslie (09:30):
I started trimming when I was 14.
I'm better now than I was then.
Comfortable taking care of mostwhen I've got a situation that
I'm not comfortable with, Ithink the most important three
words you can have in yourvocabulary is I don't know.
And when I don't know what to doa lot of good people to call.
So, yes, I've been doing feetfor 50 years more than.
(09:54):
And six years, I would say I'm70 going to be 71 next birthday.
So yeah, I've been doing feet.
I didn't work on feet the way Ido now when I was a 14, but
that's when I first picked upsome tools and realized that I
just was shown, you know, thebasics in eighth grade and then
I just started figuring it outafter that, asking questions,
(10:17):
reading books, getting DVDs.
Facebook has a lot of goodsources of information.
I've been to some differentclasses.
My students are pretty good.
I've got one student inparticular, Hannah McCarter,
who's been very helpful in theunderstanding more than I would
have found out on my own forsure.
I'm not a dentist.
(10:38):
I certainly do have thecredential to go out and do
horses, but I know that I don'tknow enough to make my services
publicly available.
I've been working at this for 3years.
I do not work on horses for thepublic, but I do teach all of my
students how to put a speculumin a horse's mouth, get
comfortable putting their handsin there.
I teach people how to read amouth.
(10:59):
I'm pretty good at reading amouth.
I'm pretty good at charting amouth.
I've learned how to do thosethings.
I'm quite confident on thatbasis and I'm very confident to
teach it and show people what'sgoing on in the mouth so that
they can understand thedifference between an unskilled
untrained dental technician andone who actually is called and I
know I can tell you the biggestdifference.
(11:19):
Your qualified, your certifieddentists and vets do not do the
front teeth.
And that's a choice, but all youhave to do is learn how to read
the manure to understand how bada decision that is.
And I'll say it straight out allthe teeth grow at the same rate.
They're not growing like a rator a rabbit, but they erupt at
the same rate, which is a fewmillimeters a year.
(11:41):
And if you've got the samepeople on your mouth and they're
in there with hand tools orpower tools once or twice a year
and they're not doing the frontteeth.
It explains why you have thekind of manure you do that looks
like damp chaff at the bottom ofa hay bin because you know a
tremendous amount of the foodcan't get properly chewed and
(12:03):
properly digested.
The enzymes in the mouth arecompletely ineffective when the
food does not reach a smallenough.
by the time that horse worksthat tongue.
And it gets that food back tohere where they're going to
swallow it.
Yesterday, I pulled somethingout that was 7 12 inches long
out of a mare that's 23 that isnot at a reference site.
(12:27):
And it's just unconscionable tome that people can't understand
that if you're going to lowerthe molars every year, and they
grow 3 to 4 millimeters a year,and you're going to go in there
with power tools twice a year,that explains why when my
students put their hands inthere and feel these teeth.
And they get a gushy pulp for atooth instead of a three, half
(12:50):
inch, three quarter of an inchenamel surface to put their
fingers on.
Instead, their fingers go downand are near a hole with a
little rim of enamel stickingout the width of your
fingernail.
Why is it not clear that thefront teeth keep growing just
as, or erupting, molars?
And if you're only going to takedown the molars, one would not
(13:12):
be surprised then that themanure is full of undigested
food.
Undigested food and unchewedstuff coming through the manure
this big, this big, this big.
So, I've got some educationalmomentum built into my students
now by, by request and I don'tintend to stop.
People need to understand thateducation about the mouth, is
(13:36):
not an option if you want yourhorse to be functional into the
older years.
This business of power tooling,using power tools twice a year
on the molars and not doing thefront teeth would explain why
you have molars that are twomillimeters high, pulp chambers,
(13:57):
you can stick your finger in agap this big between the molars
and front teeth that are hangingout like this.
I mean, it just, bewilders me.
It just bewilders me.
I, I've called a number of thedentists and the dental schools
and I've asked them why.
They said, you in America seemto like that it's that that is
correct dentistry.
(14:18):
And if you can't get your peopleup to speed, then come on over
here and learn it.
And I'll be absolutely flat outsaying it that I'm in support of
everyone who goes to the troubleto get an education, but please
get a thorough education.
Ronnie (14:36):
That makes total sense if we went to the dentist and
they just did certain things
Leslie (14:41):
I did not say I'm not keen on power tools please
understand that.
Ronnie (14:45):
No but you explained how, yeah.
Leslie (14:49):
I said that power tools twice a year on molars that
erupt three to four millimetersa year and front is not
effective for longevity.
That does not promote a healthymouth.
It does not ensure a properocclusion.
(15:10):
Just go pick up the manure inthe stall and start looking at
the length of the fibers thatare coming through that mouth.
Okay, if you had that coming outin the diaper of your children,
you would be at the pediatricianin half a second.
You'd be loaded in the car andon your way.
If your child eats a raisin anda walnut and those come out
undigested, you have a problem,
Ronnie (15:33):
So when it goes through this system, you shouldn't
really see it if the teeth arealigned and the, the right
length for chewing, is that whatyou're saying, Leslie?
You shouldn't be able to seethat?
Leslie (15:45):
Well, a lot of it depends on many things.
It depends on what they'reeating.
It depends on it depends on manythings.
Let's just say there are manyways and many thoughts on how to
properly get a mouth intoocclusion, meaning bilateral
balance, back to front, left toright.
If you're letting the frontteeth grow and you're either
(16:08):
doing a hand float as far as youcan reach with no speculum and
no sedation, Sedation is notnecessary for every horse, and
it's not necessary for everysituation, but if it becomes
necessary, or if you find thatyou've got a broken tooth in
there, or you've got a diastema,which is a big space, makes a
(16:29):
big pocket if you have, Retaineddecomposing food in the mouth
and you suddenly realize you'reinto a big mess or a cracked
tooth back there.
It helps to have sedation onboard.
But the point is, I'm talkingabout you want to have well
digested food.
Looks like well digested food.
I'll just put it that way.
Anyone who's raised a child.
(16:50):
Knows if you see four completeraisins and seven complete
walnuts and you know, anunadjusted piece of orange
coming through a human body a ina baby you're going to
understand that something isamiss.
You know, it shouldn't look likethe food that's on the plate
(17:11):
that you just gave it to them,right?
A human body and a humandigestive system is a process
that produces waste.
And when the waste looks likewaste, but something that you
swept off off the barn floor, sothere's just a gap between quite
frankly, there's a gap betweenthe molars and a lot of these
horses, which you can tell andthis is what I teach my
(17:34):
students.
I want my students to understandhow to select the kind of
quality care that is going tomake sure that their horses are
not running out to the end of anatural life.
I'll leave it like that.
You want to have a life thatleft to go the life of the
horse.
So that you're not trying tofeed the horse gruel from 20
(17:58):
years old.
The oldest horse I've ever seenunder saddle was a 52 years old.
In abs.
Absolutely wonderful, vibrantcondition at 52 years old
lessons up in Petaluma,California.
The other horse that I saw,there was again, bright and just
(18:19):
marching along in lesson he wasa magnificent animal.
And then about 10 years afterthat, I ran into a horse that
was 47.
His feet were not in good shape,but it didn't deter him.
He could get out of any fenceand he'd go courting, he was a
Tennessee Walker stallion.
They left him in tire and hewould go five miles up and down
(18:39):
over a hill with the mostungodly feet you've ever seen
but it didn't faze him, histeeth were still hanging in
there, without incident.
I mean, was healthy.
He was not rippy and gosh, darn,he was a happy camper.
As long as he could twice ayear, get up, go over the hill
and see his sweetheart he didn'tcare, but I think he passed when
(19:00):
he was 47 and he had a mouthfulof teeth he could still use.
So this idea that you're justhaving someone in your horse's
mouth without understanding it,all I'll say is it's a choice.
An educated choice about whatkind of service they're going to
pay for and what kind of needstheir horse in fact has and it's
not to say that I've got it infor people that don't have the
(19:24):
skill they need.
I am absolutely in the corner ofanybody who is a dentist,
whether they know what they willknow in 10 years or not.
But if you're a dentist with amind shut, because you think
you've learned it all, but youdon't include the front teeth in
your work, I beg to differ and Iwould ask that the clients of
people like this would insteadramp up their knowledge and just
(19:48):
get the books that areavailable, I'd be happy to give
anybody a list of websites to goto a list of people to call to
get another perspective so thatyou can make an informed choice
based on the actual facts andnot just personality or
convenience or the guy next dooror we've always used him and
we've always done it that way.
If those are the criteria thatyou want, well then, have at it.
(20:13):
But I'm offering somethingdifferent.
Ronnie (20:16):
I think sometimes especially if you're new to
horses you go by what everybodytells you.
So you get a vet for the medicalstuff, you get a dentist for the
dentistry, and you get a farrierfor the shoes or the barefoot
trimmer, and You hope that eachone does it as it should be and
it's only when you get problemslike you said that they're not
eating right, or they've gotpain in the jaw or foot
(20:40):
problems.
And then you start looking ateach one.
It's complicated because itcould be the jaw that's
affecting the feet, as you knowit will be the whole picture.
So getting that much informationfor a layman person, it's not
always that easy, so somebodylike yourself, and I think it's
(21:03):
becoming more available.
So the knowledge that you'rewanting to share is more
available through books, throughyour clinics, through your
audio, through things like thisso people can think, Oh, okay
I've had that going on.
So they'll look into it.
It's about opening people'seyes, would you agree with that,
Leslie?
Even when you've been around ahorse is a while, you think
(21:25):
you've figure something out andthere's something else will
happen and you think, okay, somaybe that wasn't right after
all, so you're continuallysearching for knowledge and for
insight.
to what you can see.
It can be a minefield.
That's what I'm trying to say.
Leslie (21:42):
Well, the horse is one system and I mean, we have this
problem in the human situationas well.
I mean you limp into a doctor'soffice with a sore throat and a
problem with your eye or yourear.
But you can hardly walk that guyor woman isn't going to talk to
you about the fact that yourback is out and that you've got
a nerve in your eye that'sconnected to the hip because
(22:05):
your shoes are wrong forexample.
There used to be a thing calleda general practitioner.
Okay my great grandfather was acountry doctor in Quebec.
Okay.
He used to go Out into WesternCanada with his little buggy and
his little doctor bag and wasthere you know, someone who
needed help with a birth or eyeinfection or somebody who can
(22:27):
cough I mean, when you were ageneral practitioner, you had an
idea we're no longer expected tobe thinking in that way and
we're no longer even expected tothink about ourselves that way.
It just depends on what yourperspective is and you can make
choices about health care.
Ronnie (22:44):
Yes, but sometimes you just need somebody just to ding,
okay let me think about it adifferent way because we get set
into how we think and look atthings and that's the way it's
done, it's like people say,well, that's the way it's always
been done.
But it doesn't mean to say it'sright you know, you can look at
it slightly differently.
Leslie (23:01):
Like, how long always?
A hundred years ago?
Last year?
Two years ago?
Since COVID, you know, I mean,always is a big word.
Ronnie (23:10):
It is.
It is yeah, so tell me Leslie,what have you got coming up in
the next few months?
Anything that you want to share?
Obviously not what you don'twant to share.
Yeah.
Leslie (23:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, I just I'm a, I'ma horse trainer and I'm an
educator of other trainers andother serious horse people.
I work with a lot of trainers inall disciplines.
And I'm going to be startingsome foals out at the end of
this month in Fort Collins,Colorado belonging to the woman
(23:40):
who owns the last resort,Equestrian Center out there in
Fort Collins, her name's LouAnne Goodyear, she has raised a
couple of foals from her twoquarter horse mares and they
have not been halted.
They have not had their feethandled or have been in a
trailer or learned how to leadand tie, so that's coming up at
the end of the month.
And, and the first weekend inOctober.
So I am excited about that.
(24:01):
I love working with young horsesyou know, because they still
have the horse left, a lot ofthese horses that have become
dull or disinterested, or theycan take a pounding and they're
hand fed and pushed on, and, Youknow, they get rewarded from
crowding and then smack in thehead for being too close, I
mean, those horses are a dime adozen, they're all over the
place because people don't,people often nowadays buy horses
(24:26):
as a companion or to make up forwhat they didn't get to do with
horses when they were young orraising a family.
And it's completelyunderstandable.
But by the time you've turnedyour horse into a big pet, you
actually don't have a whole lotof flight left in that horse
it's kind of a dull, big, pushy,comfy thing that just makes you
feel good when you see him put acarrot in one end, clean it up
(24:48):
out the other end.
I mean, there's a lot of thattype of horse owner now that is
not really actively engaged.
That's only one kind, and I'mnot knocking it, it's just that
a certain amount ofdissatisfaction that goes along
with people in people who ownhorses that they feel are
sluggish or unresponsive.
(25:08):
But the fact of the matter is,if you are treating a horse as a
pet, and this is one of thethings that I'll be showing
people in the end of the monthand again in Detroit and about
the middle of October, I've gota got something up on New
Boston, Michigan at the R and Bquarter horses.
And there's some dressage ridersthere and jumper riders there.
(25:30):
It's not just because it's aquarter horse place that it's
like, you know, western orsomething.
I, they all come.
It doesn't matter about that.
But there's really only onething a horse needs you to know
in the end, you know, it's onlyreally one thing.
Do you know what that is?
Ronnie (25:45):
No, tell me.
Leslie (25:47):
Do you have a horse?
Ronnie (25:49):
I have two.
Leslie (25:50):
Well it doesn't matter whether you have a race horse or
a pulling horse or a rainer orjumper or dressage horse,
doesn't matter if you have amini or a donkey, or even if
it's a goat, they only need toknow where you want their feet
in what sequence at what speedand when.
(26:11):
And most people are just toobusy at the head.
Patting, pushing, faltering,feeding, brushing, socializing,
hugging, kissing, all thisstuff.
And the fact is, you know, youcan do what you want.
I'm not the boss but you'reblocking 50 percent of the
vision on a flight animal,wondering why he pushes you out
(26:32):
of the way so he can see.
And then feeling as thoughyou've got a pushy disrespectful
horse, but if you have the kindof social need or the emotional
gratification requirements thatwould set you at his head,
always blocking his shoulder,blocking himself.
so much.
pushing him back in his neckbecause he's too close.
(26:53):
You have to think about whatamount of closeness fits you and
why he gets used to being therebefore you correct or call him
label and pushy and startcorrecting him for being too
close, remember that if he'srewarded for crowding by taking
an apple or carrot out of yourhand, he can hardly be blamed
for being too close and thinkingthat that's what's expected.
(27:15):
People have to start theircontribution to the problem.
And when they do that, then theystart having a horse that's a
lot more engaged and engaging.
Ronnie (27:25):
Yes I know I'm probably guilty of that and I was smiling
when you, when you mentionedabout a companion horse, so I
have two horses and one of themis a quarter horse and she's 20,
she 21 and she's not riddenyeah, she's not ridden.
She has shivers, but I don'tfocus on that anymore, yeah she
(27:49):
was diagnosed with shivers.
So she is retired, but for me,spending time just in the field,
just being with them gives me alot.
So even though she's not riddenshe's very much part of my life
you know, I don't just go feedher.
I spend time with her, but I'msmiling because I did get a
(28:11):
companion she used to be in aherd next to and within another
horse, my friend's horses.
So when they moved away, she wason her own and it was really
hard and sad to see because Isaw her change, her whole
demeanor changed.
So for me, I thought I'd neverdo that to her again.
So I wanted a companion, but Ialso wanted something that I
(28:33):
could ride maybe later.
So I got a Welsh section D.
So I've got a quarter horse anda Welsh section D.
And they're both very differentyeah, so I thought I'd just
share that bit with you.
Leslie (28:48):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm sure they aredifferent.
I need to give you a fairwarning that in about 10
minutes, I need to go, I've gota 3 30 appointment that I have
to drive to.
Ronnie (28:58):
Oh no, that's fine, that's fine listen today's chat
and get together was a bit of achallenge anyway, to get
together through lots ofdifferent reasons and we've had
a bit of a conversation, but ifyou're happy to come back
another time we'll have aAnother conversation, that's if
you want to, Leslie, it'sentirely up to you, I've not
even scratched the surface ofwhere I wanted to go, but I'm
(29:18):
struggling to listen.
One question.
If there was one piece ofguidance that you give to
somebody that's just startingout with horses that really
wants to have a horse andthey've got this dream, What
would you advise them?
What would you advise thembefore they actually buy a
horse?
If you were sat next to them,what would you say to them?
(29:38):
If you can do that in a shortanswer?
Leslie (29:42):
A horse somewhere else before you start with your own.
Learn what they need.
Volunteer somewhere, get a jobmucking stalls, learn how to vet
a stall down.
Learn how to clean four feettwelve months a year, learn how
to recognize thrush, learn whatsaddle fit is, understand when
(30:03):
you have a sheared shoulder andthat you're not going to ride
because the scapula is jammed upinto the withers, understand
what occlusion is, learn how itfeels on that head when you're
riding mouth is out ofocclusion.
These are skills that absolutelyall they have to do is
understand that when their owntooth hurts, they have to do
something because they're losingtheir tooth.
It hurts and doesn't feel right,they'll start to understand
(30:26):
what's going on with theirmouth.
All the stuff that I'm teachingnow, most of it I've learned,
other than, you know, some ofthe tips of the dental work.
Most of the stuff I learned as Iwas growing up, Oh, I mean,
you're talking basic skills,just get out there but the
problem is, is finding somebackyard livery stable or some
backyard place that'll have youbecause most of the people now
(30:47):
at this point are either retiredwith old horses in the backyard,
or they are running barns thatare super competitive and it's
go, go, go, let's get in theshow ring.
Let's win.
Let's.
Let's do what we have to.
Let's call the vet.
Get the injections, take all theshortcuts.
Let's resell.
Let's get this one in.
This one out.
It's one way to go about it, butI'd say the first thing is you
(31:09):
got to figure out what's yourmotivation for owning a horse
because anybody out there, youcan be sold a lot of horses that
are unsuitable easily.
I had two students this yearthat bought horses sight unseen
on the Internet and wondered whythere was something wrong with
them.
I mean, this is not likeshopping for a dress.
You know, it's big decision.
Can you hear me now?
Ronnie (31:29):
I can hear you now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leslie (31:32):
Okay.
So what I was going to say isbuying horses, like getting a
free dress at the charity shopor a brand new dress and then
realizing if it doesn't fit oryou gain weight or you lose
weight or somebody doesn't likeit on you.
You don't like it yourself onyou after a week of wearing it.
Stick it in the charity shop andgo get another one but people
are sort of expected to recycletheir horses.
(31:54):
That's part and parcel withwhat's going on in the horse
world is that, you know, they'redisposable.
There are not as many peoplenowadays because of land and
space limitations who are eventhinking about keeping a horse
to the end of its life.
Those people are few and farbetween, you know, if you want
to go on my route certainly inplaces where there's more land
(32:16):
available in the West or theNorthwest or Western Canada, or
rural parts of Wales and Irelandand Scotland and England, all
around Midlands, you have peoplewho are prepared to do that but
as far as the industry itself,it's pretty much of a quick
turnover thing now.
And if you want to get a horse,you have to decide who you're
going to listen to.
(32:36):
Can't just waltz in there andthrow a checkbook at the horse
deal.
I've got two clients right nowthat are drugging the horses to
go on a trail ride don't supportthat.
I don't support that.
They sold the wrong horse.
They don't understand howdangerous it is to ride a horse
that's being sedated.
I broke my back when I was 24 ona sedated horse at the racetrack
(32:58):
for heaven sakes.
I mean, I know what can happento change your life, break your
back.
This idea that you're going tobe having riding lessons on
sedated horses and showingsedated horses and injecting the
joints every five minutesbecause you've actually bought a
destroyed horse already.
This kind of thing is what givesthe horse industry a sad name.
(33:19):
And it's the thing that is, Ifind it unacceptably exploitive,
absolutely unacceptablyexploitive of the animal and of
the customer puts you at risk.
So I have to run.
Sorry to say.
Ronnie (33:33):
No, that's fine.
so if you'd like to say bye,Leslie, before you shoot off.
Leslie (33:36):
Yeah, sure.
Say goodbye and for your timeand your kind attention and if
there are questions show uplater we'll pick this up again
at your convenience.
Ronnie (33:47):
Perfect.
Okay, thank you everybody forbeing patient and I hope you
managed to get that andhopefully Leslie will come back
another time and we'll go deeperbecause there was a lot to talk
about there.
Thank you very much.
Catch you soon.
Bye for now guys.
Take care.
Hello, and welcome to today's episode with the
amazing, talented LeslieDesmond.
Now this podcast is shorter thanI would have hoped.
and that's due to the editingbecause of a few technical
issues on Leslie's end.
The Sound quality was not thatbrilliant at times, towards the
(00:23):
end, and there's parts of itthat are good, but I was
struggling to hear what, as hewas saying, because it kept
cutting out, which made it verydifficult to do live interview,
if you can appreciate that.
I felt a bit disjointed at thebeginning because I was already
aware, it was either work or itwouldn't because of that
technical stuff and once a guesthas committed to coming on, I
(00:44):
don't want to say, oh, we're notdoing it now.
I was hoping that it would workout.
So what I've done is edited allthe stuff that's non
comprehendable.
And hopefully you'll get a feelof Leslie's character.
She's an amazing woman, she's inher seventies and she has done
so much in her life.
She's traveled so far literallyand personally and what she
(01:11):
doesn't know about horses isn'tworth mentioning.
So I hope you take this as youfind it, take what you can from
it, and just let you know thatwe will be doing another get
together, live or we'll do arecording, but she's got a
wealth of knowledge and it's ashame because as we got towards
(01:33):
the end of the conversation, herpassion was coming through and
when she's talking her facelights up and there's this
childlike spark in her, thisenthusiasm, which is beautiful
to see and beautiful to hear tooSo bear with me through this
session, I hope you join usagain because she's a
fascinating woman.
(01:53):
She speaks as she finds, Shedoesn't hold back.
But it's her knowledge and herpassion that gives her that that
drive.
yeah, so sit back, relax, and Ihope you enjoy this taster
episode.
Good evening.
(02:14):
I am so sorry for the delay.
We had a few technical problems.
Leslie's in an area where thesignal is not that brilliant.
So hopefully fingers crossed.
We can have a conversation.
So without further ado I willbring the very patient, very
lovely Leslie Desmond in.
Leslie (02:33):
Thank you.
I'm Leslie Desmond, long timetime horse lover and actively
involved with horses since ayoung age and I've been at this
a while and had many mentorsthat were meaningful to me and,
taking the best that I could andleft the rest.
What didn't fit I leave behindwhat does work.
(02:54):
I appreciate so greatly.
And fortunately, great, greatpeople have taught me some very
useful things.
If I can be of any help today,please.
Ask away.
Ronnie (03:06):
Thank you.
So would you like to start bytelling us how you got into
horses?
So, you started pretty young youwas four?
So was that while you were stillin Germany?
Leslie (03:18):
No, no, I came over earlier than that.
No, I had my first ride.
At four years old and I onhorses, and just holding onto
the hair.
Ronnie (03:27):
Leslie, you was dropping in and out there so I could only
hear little bits so I doapologize.
We're both in an area that'squite remote.
So the signals challenging tosay the least.
Leslie (03:39):
I'm ready now.
I've got a pen you'll have toread the questions if any are
asked because I couldn't find myglasses.
I'm sorry.
Ronnie (03:47):
I know you've got a busy schedule because we tried to get
this before you went away, Iknow you said you was going away
for quite a while.
Did I get that right?
Leslie (03:56):
Going away just means I'm traveling.
all have phones, so I'm I'm notI'm not unreachable.
I have a background in horsetraining and I have a background
in jumping and I have abackground in several riding
styles.
I've worked with all kinds ofhorses for years.
(04:19):
Most of my life.
So I started training since whenI was 10 for my uncle.
We would get horses at theauction for his summer camp and
he would buy them based on colorand just tell me to have them
ready they couldn't buck anybodyoff.
So that's how I got my starttraining horses.
(04:42):
training horses for him that hebought at the auction.
Some were trained, some werestarted, some were unstarted
when I was about 5th grade.
Ronnie (04:49):
The question that I did write down was when you talk
about horses, what do they meanto you?
What do they bring to your life?
We can all say, Oh, I lovehorses.
I like riding.
I like doing this.
But what does that bring in yourlife when you're around horses?
Leslie (05:06):
Well, it gives me something to do that I'm good
at, and that I enjoy, andhelping them in any way is my
purpose.
I I work on their bodies, theirfeet, their teeth, I, I help the
owners that are new to horses,been doing that all my life.
I work with people that are atthe top of their skills and
stock, people who have reached aplateau.
(05:27):
I work with people that arefrustrated, people that are, you
know, Hopeful people that are1st time voice owners.
I I understand them pretty welland I help people get to a point
where they can leave theirfrustration and their concerns
and a lot of money going out.
That doesn't need to be goingout unnecessarily.
Nowadays, it seems like peoplejust spend money on horses.
(05:48):
They're not riding for allvarious types of stuff.
On some, you know, weekly orbiweekly stipend to fix up this
or that.
And so I tried to help peopleunderstand how to get away from
the dependency on.
Get get more hands on so thatthey can.
Keep more money in their pocket,be a little more independent and
(06:11):
look at their horses as healthy.
Instead of ailing and in needof.
You know, many kinds of servicesand there's lots of good service
and good help out there, but I,I tend to end up with calls
quite often from people that arejust at the end of their idea
about what to do, because Idon't know why, but it's not
(06:32):
working for them anyway.
I, I tend to be.
One of the, one of the lastpeople called, I wish I were the
first, but I'm not, I'm usuallythe last, but that's okay.
I do, I do have a, I do have apretty big circle that I go on a
(06:53):
big, a big loop I do around theworld and around the country
periodically, quite oftenactually.
Ronnie (07:00):
You did a trip to the UK recently, didn't you?
You was in the UK.
Leslie (07:05):
This year and last year, and often.
Yes.
I'm there often.
I have a lot of nice peoplethere.
Yes.
I was in Scotland and Irelandbefore that.
And and then I just went abroadto you know, there, it just,
it's a.
35 years.
Ronnie (07:23):
That's a, that's a long time.
That's a lot of work, Leslie.
Leslie (07:27):
A lot.
I enjoy it.
Yes.
Ronnie (07:29):
When you come to the UK, do you find, do you find that a
lot different that you'represented with?
So not the horses, obviously,but expectations or questions,
do you find it different fromthe people that you may be
visiting there in the States oris it generally the same?
Leslie (07:47):
No, it isn't the same.
Most people in the UK dependingon their age came up through
Pony Club and the British HorseSociety or they were learning
from Monty Roberts's system oryou know, one of the more
popular things that took thecountry by storm in the mid 90s
You know, but that, that's, Imean, and that effect wasn't
(08:11):
just limited to the UK, butthere's more of a preponderance
of people that were joining upand using that lingo.
And then there were, that sortof was a laid over the British
horse society background and soon.
A lot more jumping and a lotmore confidence in the riders in
the UK because they get startedyounger than in the States.
(08:32):
You know, and you have horses asa way of life a lot longer.
I know that when you stopped foxhunting in Europe, when you
stopped fox hunting, I thinkthat was under Tony Blair, shut
that down.
Didn't he?
You know, that's fine, whatever,but it sure changed things.
And yeah I'd say that people inthe UK and Ireland and Scotland
are a lot more comfortablearound animals.
(08:54):
And about dogs, a lot more laidback about having pets and a lot
more realistic than in otherplaces per se.
I'm not trying to comparethings, but you asked me to
compare them, so I did.
Ronnie (09:07):
Jumping is something that is never really drawn me
jumping.
I think the size of the jumpsthat you get the horses to jump
over is like, crikey, they'rebigger than me.
Which doesn't take a lot causeI'm only tiny.
But hacking out or as you calltrail riding.
That's more my interest.
So you also do dentistry, do youdo feet as well?
Leslie (09:30):
I started trimming when I was 14.
I'm better now than I was then.
Comfortable taking care of mostwhen I've got a situation that
I'm not comfortable with, Ithink the most important three
words you can have in yourvocabulary is I don't know.
And when I don't know what to doa lot of good people to call.
So, yes, I've been doing feetfor 50 years more than.
(09:54):
And six years, I would say I'm70 going to be 71 next birthday.
So yeah, I've been doing feet.
I didn't work on feet the way Ido now when I was a 14, but
that's when I first picked upsome tools and realized that I
just was shown, you know, thebasics in eighth grade and then
I just started figuring it outafter that, asking questions,
(10:17):
reading books, getting DVDs.
Facebook has a lot of goodsources of information.
I've been to some differentclasses.
My students are pretty good.
I've got one student inparticular, Hannah McCarter,
who's been very helpful in theunderstanding more than I would
have found out on my own forsure.
I'm not a dentist.
(10:38):
I certainly do have thecredential to go out and do
horses, but I know that I don'tknow enough to make my services
publicly available.
I've been working at this for 3years.
I do not work on horses for thepublic, but I do teach all of my
students how to put a speculumin a horse's mouth, get
comfortable putting their handsin there.
I teach people how to read amouth.
(10:59):
I'm pretty good at reading amouth.
I'm pretty good at charting amouth.
I've learned how to do thosethings.
I'm quite confident on thatbasis and I'm very confident to
teach it and show people what'sgoing on in the mouth so that
they can understand thedifference between an unskilled
untrained dental technician andone who actually is called and I
know I can tell you the biggestdifference.
(11:19):
Your qualified, your certifieddentists and vets do not do the
front teeth.
And that's a choice, but all youhave to do is learn how to read
the manure to understand how bada decision that is.
And I'll say it straight out allthe teeth grow at the same rate.
They're not growing like a rator a rabbit, but they erupt at
the same rate, which is a fewmillimeters a year.
(11:41):
And if you've got the samepeople on your mouth and they're
in there with hand tools orpower tools once or twice a year
and they're not doing the frontteeth.
It explains why you have thekind of manure you do that looks
like damp chaff at the bottom ofa hay bin because you know a
tremendous amount of the foodcan't get properly chewed and
(12:03):
properly digested.
The enzymes in the mouth arecompletely ineffective when the
food does not reach a smallenough.
by the time that horse worksthat tongue.
And it gets that food back tohere where they're going to
swallow it.
Yesterday, I pulled somethingout that was 7 12 inches long
out of a mare that's 23 that isnot at a reference site.
(12:27):
And it's just unconscionable tome that people can't understand
that if you're going to lowerthe molars every year, and they
grow 3 to 4 millimeters a year,and you're going to go in there
with power tools twice a year,that explains why when my
students put their hands inthere and feel these teeth.
And they get a gushy pulp for atooth instead of a three, half
(12:50):
inch, three quarter of an inchenamel surface to put their
fingers on.
Instead, their fingers go downand are near a hole with a
little rim of enamel stickingout the width of your
fingernail.
Why is it not clear that thefront teeth keep growing just
as, or erupting, molars?
And if you're only going to takedown the molars, one would not
(13:12):
be surprised then that themanure is full of undigested
food.
Undigested food and unchewedstuff coming through the manure
this big, this big, this big.
So, I've got some educationalmomentum built into my students
now by, by request and I don'tintend to stop.
People need to understand thateducation about the mouth, is
(13:36):
not an option if you want yourhorse to be functional into the
older years.
This business of power tooling,using power tools twice a year
on the molars and not doing thefront teeth would explain why
you have molars that are twomillimeters high, pulp chambers,
(13:57):
you can stick your finger in agap this big between the molars
and front teeth that are hangingout like this.
I mean, it just, bewilders me.
It just bewilders me.
I, I've called a number of thedentists and the dental schools
and I've asked them why.
They said, you in America seemto like that it's that that is
correct dentistry.
(14:18):
And if you can't get your peopleup to speed, then come on over
here and learn it.
And I'll be absolutely flat outsaying it that I'm in support of
everyone who goes to the troubleto get an education, but please
get a thorough education.
Ronnie (14:36):
That makes total sense if we went to the dentist and
they just did certain things
Leslie (14:41):
I did not say I'm not keen on power tools please
understand that.
Ronnie (14:45):
No but you explained how, yeah.
Leslie (14:49):
I said that power tools twice a year on molars that
erupt three to four millimetersa year and front is not
effective for longevity.
That does not promote a healthymouth.
It does not ensure a properocclusion.
(15:10):
Just go pick up the manure inthe stall and start looking at
the length of the fibers thatare coming through that mouth.
Okay, if you had that coming outin the diaper of your children,
you would be at the pediatricianin half a second.
You'd be loaded in the car andon your way.
If your child eats a raisin anda walnut and those come out
undigested, you have a problem,
Ronnie (15:33):
So when it goes through this system, you shouldn't
really see it if the teeth arealigned and the, the right
length for chewing, is that whatyou're saying, Leslie?
You shouldn't be able to seethat?
Leslie (15:45):
Well, a lot of it depends on many things.
It depends on what they'reeating.
It depends on it depends on manythings.
Let's just say there are manyways and many thoughts on how to
properly get a mouth intoocclusion, meaning bilateral
balance, back to front, left toright.
If you're letting the frontteeth grow and you're either
(16:08):
doing a hand float as far as youcan reach with no speculum and
no sedation, Sedation is notnecessary for every horse, and
it's not necessary for everysituation, but if it becomes
necessary, or if you find thatyou've got a broken tooth in
there, or you've got a diastema,which is a big space, makes a
(16:29):
big pocket if you have, Retaineddecomposing food in the mouth
and you suddenly realize you'reinto a big mess or a cracked
tooth back there.
It helps to have sedation onboard.
But the point is, I'm talkingabout you want to have well
digested food.
Looks like well digested food.
I'll just put it that way.
Anyone who's raised a child.
(16:50):
Knows if you see four completeraisins and seven complete
walnuts and you know, anunadjusted piece of orange
coming through a human body a ina baby you're going to
understand that something isamiss.
You know, it shouldn't look likethe food that's on the plate
(17:11):
that you just gave it to them,right?
A human body and a humandigestive system is a process
that produces waste.
And when the waste looks likewaste, but something that you
swept off off the barn floor, sothere's just a gap between quite
frankly, there's a gap betweenthe molars and a lot of these
horses, which you can tell andthis is what I teach my
(17:34):
students.
I want my students to understandhow to select the kind of
quality care that is going tomake sure that their horses are
not running out to the end of anatural life.
I'll leave it like that.
You want to have a life thatleft to go the life of the
horse.
So that you're not trying tofeed the horse gruel from 20
(17:58):
years old.
The oldest horse I've ever seenunder saddle was a 52 years old.
In abs.
Absolutely wonderful, vibrantcondition at 52 years old
lessons up in Petaluma,California.
The other horse that I saw,there was again, bright and just
(18:19):
marching along in lesson he wasa magnificent animal.
And then about 10 years afterthat, I ran into a horse that
was 47.
His feet were not in good shape,but it didn't deter him.
He could get out of any fenceand he'd go courting, he was a
Tennessee Walker stallion.
They left him in tire and hewould go five miles up and down
(18:39):
over a hill with the mostungodly feet you've ever seen
but it didn't faze him, histeeth were still hanging in
there, without incident.
I mean, was healthy.
He was not rippy and gosh, darn,he was a happy camper.
As long as he could twice ayear, get up, go over the hill
and see his sweetheart he didn'tcare, but I think he passed when
(19:00):
he was 47 and he had a mouthfulof teeth he could still use.
So this idea that you're justhaving someone in your horse's
mouth without understanding it,all I'll say is it's a choice.
An educated choice about whatkind of service they're going to
pay for and what kind of needstheir horse in fact has and it's
not to say that I've got it infor people that don't have the
(19:24):
skill they need.
I am absolutely in the corner ofanybody who is a dentist,
whether they know what they willknow in 10 years or not.
But if you're a dentist with amind shut, because you think
you've learned it all, but youdon't include the front teeth in
your work, I beg to differ and Iwould ask that the clients of
people like this would insteadramp up their knowledge and just
(19:48):
get the books that areavailable, I'd be happy to give
anybody a list of websites to goto a list of people to call to
get another perspective so thatyou can make an informed choice
based on the actual facts andnot just personality or
convenience or the guy next dooror we've always used him and
we've always done it that way.
If those are the criteria thatyou want, well then, have at it.
(20:13):
But I'm offering somethingdifferent.
Ronnie (20:16):
I think sometimes especially if you're new to
horses you go by what everybodytells you.
So you get a vet for the medicalstuff, you get a dentist for the
dentistry, and you get a farrierfor the shoes or the barefoot
trimmer, and You hope that eachone does it as it should be and
it's only when you get problemslike you said that they're not
eating right, or they've gotpain in the jaw or foot
(20:40):
problems.
And then you start looking ateach one.
It's complicated because itcould be the jaw that's
affecting the feet, as you knowit will be the whole picture.
So getting that much informationfor a layman person, it's not
always that easy, so somebodylike yourself, and I think it's
(21:03):
becoming more available.
So the knowledge that you'rewanting to share is more
available through books, throughyour clinics, through your
audio, through things like thisso people can think, Oh, okay
I've had that going on.
So they'll look into it.
It's about opening people'seyes, would you agree with that,
Leslie?
Even when you've been around ahorse is a while, you think
(21:25):
you've figure something out andthere's something else will
happen and you think, okay, somaybe that wasn't right after
all, so you're continuallysearching for knowledge and for
insight.
to what you can see.
It can be a minefield.
That's what I'm trying to say.
Leslie (21:42):
Well, the horse is one system and I mean, we have this
problem in the human situationas well.
I mean you limp into a doctor'soffice with a sore throat and a
problem with your eye or yourear.
But you can hardly walk that guyor woman isn't going to talk to
you about the fact that yourback is out and that you've got
a nerve in your eye that'sconnected to the hip because
(22:05):
your shoes are wrong forexample.
There used to be a thing calleda general practitioner.
Okay my great grandfather was acountry doctor in Quebec.
Okay.
He used to go Out into WesternCanada with his little buggy and
his little doctor bag and wasthere you know, someone who
needed help with a birth or eyeinfection or somebody who can
(22:27):
cough I mean, when you were ageneral practitioner, you had an
idea we're no longer expected tobe thinking in that way and
we're no longer even expected tothink about ourselves that way.
It just depends on what yourperspective is and you can make
choices about health care.
Ronnie (22:44):
Yes, but sometimes you just need somebody just to ding,
okay let me think about it adifferent way because we get set
into how we think and look atthings and that's the way it's
done, it's like people say,well, that's the way it's always
been done.
But it doesn't mean to say it'sright you know, you can look at
it slightly differently.
Leslie (23:01):
Like, how long always?
A hundred years ago?
Last year?
Two years ago?
Since COVID, you know, I mean,always is a big word.
Ronnie (23:10):
It is.
It is yeah, so tell me Leslie,what have you got coming up in
the next few months?
Anything that you want to share?
Obviously not what you don'twant to share.
Yeah.
Leslie (23:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, I just I'm a, I'ma horse trainer and I'm an
educator of other trainers andother serious horse people.
I work with a lot of trainers inall disciplines.
And I'm going to be startingsome foals out at the end of
this month in Fort Collins,Colorado belonging to the woman
(23:40):
who owns the last resort,Equestrian Center out there in
Fort Collins, her name's LouAnne Goodyear, she has raised a
couple of foals from her twoquarter horse mares and they
have not been halted.
They have not had their feethandled or have been in a
trailer or learned how to leadand tie, so that's coming up at
the end of the month.
And, and the first weekend inOctober.
So I am excited about that.
(24:01):
I love working with young horsesyou know, because they still
have the horse left, a lot ofthese horses that have become
dull or disinterested, or theycan take a pounding and they're
hand fed and pushed on, and, Youknow, they get rewarded from
crowding and then smack in thehead for being too close, I
mean, those horses are a dime adozen, they're all over the
place because people don't,people often nowadays buy horses
(24:26):
as a companion or to make up forwhat they didn't get to do with
horses when they were young orraising a family.
And it's completelyunderstandable.
But by the time you've turnedyour horse into a big pet, you
actually don't have a whole lotof flight left in that horse
it's kind of a dull, big, pushy,comfy thing that just makes you
feel good when you see him put acarrot in one end, clean it up
(24:48):
out the other end.
I mean, there's a lot of thattype of horse owner now that is
not really actively engaged.
That's only one kind, and I'mnot knocking it, it's just that
a certain amount ofdissatisfaction that goes along
with people in people who ownhorses that they feel are
sluggish or unresponsive.
(25:08):
But the fact of the matter is,if you are treating a horse as a
pet, and this is one of thethings that I'll be showing
people in the end of the monthand again in Detroit and about
the middle of October, I've gota got something up on New
Boston, Michigan at the R and Bquarter horses.
And there's some dressage ridersthere and jumper riders there.
(25:30):
It's not just because it's aquarter horse place that it's
like, you know, western orsomething.
I, they all come.
It doesn't matter about that.
But there's really only onething a horse needs you to know
in the end, you know, it's onlyreally one thing.
Do you know what that is?
Ronnie (25:45):
No, tell me.
Leslie (25:47):
Do you have a horse?
Ronnie (25:49):
I have two.
Leslie (25:50):
Well it doesn't matter whether you have a race horse or
a pulling horse or a rainer orjumper or dressage horse,
doesn't matter if you have amini or a donkey, or even if
it's a goat, they only need toknow where you want their feet
in what sequence at what speedand when.
(26:11):
And most people are just toobusy at the head.
Patting, pushing, faltering,feeding, brushing, socializing,
hugging, kissing, all thisstuff.
And the fact is, you know, youcan do what you want.
I'm not the boss but you'reblocking 50 percent of the
vision on a flight animal,wondering why he pushes you out
(26:32):
of the way so he can see.
And then feeling as thoughyou've got a pushy disrespectful
horse, but if you have the kindof social need or the emotional
gratification requirements thatwould set you at his head,
always blocking his shoulder,blocking himself.
so much.
pushing him back in his neckbecause he's too close.
(26:53):
You have to think about whatamount of closeness fits you and
why he gets used to being therebefore you correct or call him
label and pushy and startcorrecting him for being too
close, remember that if he'srewarded for crowding by taking
an apple or carrot out of yourhand, he can hardly be blamed
for being too close and thinkingthat that's what's expected.
(27:15):
People have to start theircontribution to the problem.
And when they do that, then theystart having a horse that's a
lot more engaged and engaging.
Ronnie (27:25):
Yes I know I'm probably guilty of that and I was smiling
when you, when you mentionedabout a companion horse, so I
have two horses and one of themis a quarter horse and she's 20,
she 21 and she's not riddenyeah, she's not ridden.
She has shivers, but I don'tfocus on that anymore, yeah she
(27:49):
was diagnosed with shivers.
So she is retired, but for me,spending time just in the field,
just being with them gives me alot.
So even though she's not riddenshe's very much part of my life
you know, I don't just go feedher.
I spend time with her, but I'msmiling because I did get a
(28:11):
companion she used to be in aherd next to and within another
horse, my friend's horses.
So when they moved away, she wason her own and it was really
hard and sad to see because Isaw her change, her whole
demeanor changed.
So for me, I thought I'd neverdo that to her again.
So I wanted a companion, but Ialso wanted something that I
(28:33):
could ride maybe later.
So I got a Welsh section D.
So I've got a quarter horse anda Welsh section D.
And they're both very differentyeah, so I thought I'd just
share that bit with you.
Leslie (28:48):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm sure they aredifferent.
I need to give you a fairwarning that in about 10
minutes, I need to go, I've gota 3 30 appointment that I have
to drive to.
Ronnie (28:58):
Oh no, that's fine, that's fine listen today's chat
and get together was a bit of achallenge anyway, to get
together through lots ofdifferent reasons and we've had
a bit of a conversation, but ifyou're happy to come back
another time we'll have aAnother conversation, that's if
you want to, Leslie, it'sentirely up to you, I've not
even scratched the surface ofwhere I wanted to go, but I'm
(29:18):
struggling to listen.
One question.
If there was one piece ofguidance that you give to
somebody that's just startingout with horses that really
wants to have a horse andthey've got this dream, What
would you advise them?
What would you advise thembefore they actually buy a
horse?
If you were sat next to them,what would you say to them?
(29:38):
If you can do that in a shortanswer?
Leslie (29:42):
A horse somewhere else before you start with your own.
Learn what they need.
Volunteer somewhere, get a jobmucking stalls, learn how to vet
a stall down.
Learn how to clean four feettwelve months a year, learn how
to recognize thrush, learn whatsaddle fit is, understand when
(30:03):
you have a sheared shoulder andthat you're not going to ride
because the scapula is jammed upinto the withers, understand
what occlusion is, learn how itfeels on that head when you're
riding mouth is out ofocclusion.
These are skills that absolutelyall they have to do is
understand that when their owntooth hurts, they have to do
something because they're losingtheir tooth.
It hurts and doesn't feel right,they'll start to understand
(30:26):
what's going on with theirmouth.
All the stuff that I'm teachingnow, most of it I've learned,
other than, you know, some ofthe tips of the dental work.
Most of the stuff I learned as Iwas growing up, Oh, I mean,
you're talking basic skills,just get out there but the
problem is, is finding somebackyard livery stable or some
backyard place that'll have youbecause most of the people now
(30:47):
at this point are either retiredwith old horses in the backyard,
or they are running barns thatare super competitive and it's
go, go, go, let's get in theshow ring.
Let's win.
Let's.
Let's do what we have to.
Let's call the vet.
Get the injections, take all theshortcuts.
Let's resell.
Let's get this one in.
This one out.
It's one way to go about it, butI'd say the first thing is you
(31:09):
got to figure out what's yourmotivation for owning a horse
because anybody out there, youcan be sold a lot of horses that
are unsuitable easily.
I had two students this yearthat bought horses sight unseen
on the Internet and wondered whythere was something wrong with
them.
I mean, this is not likeshopping for a dress.
You know, it's big decision.
Can you hear me now?
Ronnie (31:29):
I can hear you now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Leslie (31:32):
Okay.
So what I was going to say isbuying horses, like getting a
free dress at the charity shopor a brand new dress and then
realizing if it doesn't fit oryou gain weight or you lose
weight or somebody doesn't likeit on you.
You don't like it yourself onyou after a week of wearing it.
Stick it in the charity shop andgo get another one but people
are sort of expected to recycletheir horses.
(31:54):
That's part and parcel withwhat's going on in the horse
world is that, you know, they'redisposable.
There are not as many peoplenowadays because of land and
space limitations who are eventhinking about keeping a horse
to the end of its life.
Those people are few and farbetween, you know, if you want
to go on my route certainly inplaces where there's more land
(32:16):
available in the West or theNorthwest or Western Canada, or
rural parts of Wales and Irelandand Scotland and England, all
around Midlands, you have peoplewho are prepared to do that but
as far as the industry itself,it's pretty much of a quick
turnover thing now.
And if you want to get a horse,you have to decide who you're
going to listen to.
(32:36):
Can't just waltz in there andthrow a checkbook at the horse
deal.
I've got two clients right nowthat are drugging the horses to
go on a trail ride don't supportthat.
I don't support that.
They sold the wrong horse.
They don't understand howdangerous it is to ride a horse
that's being sedated.
I broke my back when I was 24 ona sedated horse at the racetrack
(32:58):
for heaven sakes.
I mean, I know what can happento change your life, break your
back.
This idea that you're going tobe having riding lessons on
sedated horses and showingsedated horses and injecting the
joints every five minutesbecause you've actually bought a
destroyed horse already.
This kind of thing is what givesthe horse industry a sad name.
(33:19):
And it's the thing that is, Ifind it unacceptably exploitive,
absolutely unacceptablyexploitive of the animal and of
the customer puts you at risk.
So I have to run.
Sorry to say.
Ronnie (33:33):
No, that's fine.
so if you'd like to say bye,Leslie, before you shoot off.
Leslie (33:36):
Yeah, sure.
Say goodbye and for your timeand your kind attention and if
there are questions show uplater we'll pick this up again
at your convenience.
Ronnie (33:47):
Perfect.
Okay, thank you everybody forbeing patient and I hope you
managed to get that andhopefully Leslie will come back
another time and we'll go deeperbecause there was a lot to talk
about there.
Thank you very much.
Catch you soon.
Bye for now guys.
Take care.
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