Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies (Part 2) - Equine Voices Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Ronnie (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Equine Voices podcast.

(00:02):
My name is Ronnie and I'm so, soexcited to be having a lovely
Tom Mays back again.
This is our second interviewtogether and the reason that
we've had another interview sosoon after the last one is
because of the feedback and thecomments from the listeners and
the people that were watchingafterwards, after the live
finished.
So without further ado, I'mgoing to bring Tom in.

(00:25):
He can do a short introductionand then we're going to go
straight into the conversation.
If you want to ask anyquestions, please do so in the
comments.
And then we'll go into thequestions as they come up or
when it feels relevant to answerthose particular questions, but
we will get through them, sodon't worry about that.
Hi Tom.

Tom (00:45):
Hey Ronnie.
Thanks for having me on again.

Ronnie (00:48):
You are so welcome would you like to do a little
introduction for the people thatmay not know who you are and
then we'll go straight into theconversation.

Tom (00:57):
Sure, I'll do a brief one.
My company is called integratedequine therapies, but really on
the outside, what it looks likeis I do more advanced body work,
mostly osteopathic cranialsacral, medical intuition, and
lots of applied kinesiology,kind of an integrated approach
that has evolved over, oh gosh,now three decades, actually

(01:22):
probably since I hit the ground,but, my approach is one on a
physical level.
I'm looking at restoringvitality in ways that took me
way away from the allopathicmodel, and yet I still embrace
some of the allopathic,perspectives as necessary and
want to integrate that, wouldlove to integrate that in a

(01:43):
research teaching situation, butbasically.
To be effective on the physicalbody on a horse, and we can talk
a lot about the commonphysicalities in horses, how
they mirror human dysfunctionand the whole health crisis that
we're in because most of us inthe Western world don't have
health care.
We have sick care anymore.

(02:04):
But anyway it is to really fixthe physical body.
Inevitably, you come to a muchmaturation where you Looking at
what is the deeper cause, andthat deeper cause is always
related to where the being,human, horse, dog, cat, went off
purpose.

(02:24):
They went off being, and thebody holds disease in
predictable ways, and Tomobilize that, to get that to
move, is the biggest physicalreleases I've ever had.
So that consistently is woventhrough all the classes I teach,
and consistently is the biggestresults if you're just looking

(02:46):
at the physical performanceworld or whatever.
Lameness.
Restoration world, which is agreat place because if you don't
feel good physically, you canforget the rest, right?
Anyway, that's mainly what I do.
I guess real quick in modalitywise I don't I look at a horse
in the beginning of a sessionbefore I even get there And I

(03:08):
want to address the horse fromthe higher self standpoint.
I want to bypass a lot of theiringrained psychological
emotional Personality,Motivations so that I can get to
the true essence of horse.
And when you do that with theequals, they, and you just
requests by and large, theyabsolutely shift on the dime.

(03:29):
Whereas humans, we take a whileto even grasp that concept or
will resist it.
And so you're dealing with a lotmore variables and layers.
Horses with the right intentionwill shift automatically, at
least while you're in theirpresence.
And the outcomes and theassessment and the treatments
are massively different.

(03:50):
And along that line over theyears, very kind of
unconsciously, reluctantly alittle bit, I've adopted three
main, yeah, I guess I'd callthem modalities or not
modalities really, but I'vealigned my work and my
understanding with what I callthe sacred trilogy, and it is in

(04:12):
all.
Organized religion and oldindigenous philosophies.
And that is kind of theChristians would call it father,
son, Holy ghosts the mysticschool and the Egyptians call it
the soul spirit life force.
And I work with that because tome, those are the driving
energies of the physical body.

(04:33):
And.
They exhibit vascular heart,soul work, which to me the
osteopaths say they call it therule of the art.
What they mean is mostdysfunctions will be dominated
by a blood vessel that's indysfunction.
Anywhere in the body.
So I work a ton with vascularwork and inevitably early in a

(04:54):
session will go into the heartitself and reawaken and realign
and get its dance back movingwith the body.
And that's pretty easy to teachand to do a cranial sacral.
If you know about that modality,it's fairly extensive in Europe
and the United States wereoriginated.
Is the central nervous systemand the flow of cerebral spinal

(05:17):
fluid from the, from the cranialbones down through the body into
the sacrum and then out that,that modality and call it the
nervous system.
It is driven by energies.
We can't quantify and thoseenergies to me or spirit coming
in.
It's basically aligned with theKundalini and you can assess.

(05:39):
on a physical level, anythingdown into the tiniest abscesses
or micro lesions in a, in asuspensory ligament with cranial
sacral as well.
And the third one alluded me foryears and years.
And the life force aspect, causeeach of these core.
Energies that run, I believe ourspiritual light body to our
physical light body the sacredtrilogy.

(06:02):
Each one has a focal point and asystem point.
So heart, soul, vascular,cranial, sacral, spirit, central
nervous system.
And the life force to me was whoyou are in this body in this
lifetime and how you move andhow you, how you express
yourself in form.

(06:23):
And that to me turned out to befascia.
The fascial system with limpkind of woven in and the center
of that I should back up thecenter of spirit is the pineal
gland through the cranial sacralsystem.
The mystic school the Egyptianstalk about where the heart
emanates your own higher self isbetween the left and right

(06:45):
ventricles of the heart and thecenter of the fascial system is
what the Chinese call the lowerdantian the Japanese the one
point or the hara and that isright below the SI joint.
On a horse, if you put your handright over the SI joint, it's
about two or three inches downin that spinal cord, somewhere

(07:05):
in there.
And it's an eminence.
And what I found with it is theentire fascial train system
works like a DNA spiral throughthe body.
And you can pick that dance upanywhere.
And when you do, you haveleverage.
If you want to call it to engageand move fashion much more
efficiently and to be able toaddress what's going on with the

(07:28):
life.
Force of this horse in this casein a much more dramatic way, but
anyway, it's always about goinginto the essence of why we are
in disease.

Ronnie (07:43):
Thank you very much and explaining that.
And I know we talked about thison the last interview.
So if anybody's interested,there is another interview that
we did in December.
And you can watch that one too,because this sort of follows on
from there.
And I know we talked to aboutthe heart consciousness because
that came through talking aboutthe feminine energy, how

(08:04):
important it is very much sonow, but also.
The masculine energy.
So, okay.
So what I'm just getting now islast time we spoke about the
feminine energy saying that it'simportant because it's not a
weak energy, it's a strongenergy.
And then the masculine energy isjust come through.

(08:26):
And what they're saying is thebalance isn't always level.
It will be.
Like the tipping scales, becauseas we do that, each essence of
that frequency has an impact onthe physical body and the organs
and everything else that flowsthrough that does that make

(08:47):
sense to you?

Tom (08:49):
Yeah.
If you can envision a figureeight and at neutral in, just
utter, just beingness with nointrusion from the outside or
inside, the masculine, feminineand the masculine male are in
absolute levelness.
But depends on how we need toengage appropriately with the

(09:10):
world, which one steps forwardand becomes, I see it as it
becomes dominant and the otherone is there.
So a great example of that isour hands.
Can the thing about realtraditional osteopathy is an
example.
It's certainly not the onlymodality that utilizes.

(09:32):
Is going in with our hands atall, but it is the most
demonstrative and that I canfind.
And what I mean by that is ourhands can go into the body with
our intention.
It's all about your intentionand a tension, always the
quality of it.
It's rate, it's flow, do youalign with the frequency of the

(09:54):
horse, and so on, and it's aninnate skill.
And why am I bringing that up?
Because going into deep tissuesallows me, or other people,
access to tissue dysfunction,places of deep emotional cysts,
and so on, that you can't reallyget to otherwise.
The only other way to do thatis, is to try to push on the

(10:16):
skin to push on a muscles to getthrough the plural lining.
If we're going into the long andthat's extremely male
inappropriate to aggressive,going to cause restriction and
the defensiveness in the horseenergy.
On the other hand, Going back tothis balance of male and
feminine, it's this divinefemale energy that allows us to

(10:38):
go in in this case with ourhands deep, deep down to a
dysfunction and engage it,embrace it, see it, feel it just
like you were there.
If you opened it up and you wentthere and with precision and
then that evokes a healing, a,the body itself manifests.

(11:01):
It's really not us doing all ofit as a healer on the outside.
We engage it and we activate it.
We kind of give it in somecases, no choice, but to move
into balance.
That's the divine feminine.
And it's very powerful.
And, can do almost anything.
And then as the body responds,you would think it would as

(11:22):
sometimes it will dissipate orunwind.
And most people, especially myfemale students, will want it to
just dissolve and transmute orgo away and think that was the
essence.
And the reality is in general,especially these deep seated
dysfunctions in us, they do theopposite.
They come to crescendo, they getmore focalized and they get more

(11:46):
intense.
And in a sense, at first youthink you're making it worse,
and the reality is, you justembrace it with divine feminine
energy, and as it comes intototal crescendo, there's an
automatic switch to be effectiveto the divine male, and the
divine male says, I have you,and I see your essence, and it's

(12:06):
time for you to be transmuted tobeauty, and to leave the hold of
this body, and at that point,there is a divine
transformation.
Thanks.
Female, I mean a male impulsenudge that's necessary and you
literally feel the 3D bodytissues flutter in your hand.
I mean, this is a 100 times asession on a horse type of thing

(12:26):
and it's reset and then you goright back to the divine
feminine.
And so there is an example ofthe male intensity should be
less time in our timechronology, but very intense at
the right moment.
And then balance with what thedivine female energy has
awakened.

Ronnie (12:47):
Yeah.
So both parts are important.
It's not one or the other.
Obviously you need both parts ofit.
Mm-Hmm.
I know on the last chaptertogether you mentioned that you
had to embrace more of thefeminine side.
And so you brought that moreinto the fold.

Tom (13:03):
Yeah, I mean really this concept is so Central and so
important to healing it bothourselves and to each other and
to other species and thatbecause it really asks the
question, well, what, what isdisease and what is dysfunction?
And there's layers of that.
And there's a part of me, youknow, comes from the old school
and, and the martial stuff andall that where.

(13:25):
Oh, if I see a tissuedysfunction, I'm going to go up
to it and I'm just going to findout which way it needs moving.
I'm just going to blast it outof there.
Well, yeah, you can get awaywith that for a while, but
there's a lot of energy, toomuch mail being used and in the
wrong, it's not balanced andit's not as efficient.
So after a while, the most machopeople out there become soft to

(13:49):
be better at their physical.
intensity.
And what you'll find is that youhave to embrace a really
dysfunctional situation in ahorse's body.
You actually dialogue with itand you dialogue with the horse.
And first thing you have to askthe horse is, do you want this?

(14:11):
Do you want to keep this?
If it's true shadow, the horsewill look at you and go, Oh my
God, no, take, take care of itfor me.
Take care of it for me.
Get rid of it.
If it's really deep and reallyintense, especially an emotional
memory.
Traumatic experience or oldgrief, you need to evoke it with
divine feminine and awaken itfully and usually what will

(14:33):
happen is it will be toorestricted to get with male
energy, strong, intense,whatever kind of manipulation
you want to do, directtechnique, whatever, and at that
egoist.
Because the universe is set upsuch is that here it is and
you'll see horses go, Oh my God,you got this up and I know it's

(14:53):
tied to all this pain and thisemotion and it's been here
forever and take care of it forme.
I'm all for it.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
And you look at him and go.
That's not how it works.
I'll I do it if it went.
You must now I'm going toilluminate it for you and you
need to fully go into it with nofear and embrace all of it and
then understand the lesson andat that that moment.

(15:15):
That they do that, which in ahorse is very quick.
At least it is for me and what Ikind of ask and bring to the
table when I go to, then thetissue starts unwinding and it
takes very little, if any, maleintense direct technique to get
that.
And those are the most profoundhealings of, of all, of all.

(15:35):
I mean, that's really the, thecentral place of clearing the
deepest dysfunctions in ourphysical body.
And I run the skeptic hard andboy, does it sure prove out over
the years.

Ronnie (15:48):
So you're highlighting, you're facilitating and you're
enabling and helping whereneeded, but it's their choice,
it's their own flow that shiftsthat at the end, isn't it?
Is that what you're saying?

Tom (15:58):
Yes.
And you have to align with thatand yes.
And if you have a horse that isnot sure and not willing that
they want to heal, or for somereason doesn't want to heal
those outcomes are totallydifferent.
Those sessions have completelydifferent flow energy and the
whole point of from the firstday of first moment of a session

(16:18):
to the first day of the firstclass to the last day of the
last class, it's always aboutmerging and engaging on an
equanimous basis with.
With the horse and there'stechniques to enhance that.
A lot of'em are right on thecranium.
A lot of'em are old horsetechniques, but it's all about
asking them to be fully.

(16:39):
involved and moving and teamingwith, with the healer, healer,
the body worker, whatever youcall it in their own session.
And the best sessions I've everhad are sessions where I've kind
of awakened things and thenproven that I can open up a
bunch of tissues and startgetting energy flowing again and

(17:00):
so on.
And then the horse will give mea certain, I can feel it now in
the air first and then it'llalways have a, I vector with it
and then they asked me to dosomething on them.
And, and a lot of times it'ssomething that procedurally is
going to be about 20 minutesdown the road because there's

(17:20):
too many blocks upstream, ifthat makes sense.
And I always negotiate, I willbe there in 20 minutes or
whatever it is, but the bestsessions are, okay, your turn,
my turn.
And the best outcomes are thatway.
And this is an innate thing inhorses.
All you have to do is.
Awaken them.
And in us, we have to go deeperto awaken that because we've had

(17:42):
so much kind of pushed aside.
We forgot who we are.
But once you're in it, you go,Oh, yeah, I know this place, you
know?
Yeah.
But I think that that's naturallaw, Ronnie, what you're talking
about in terms of, it's reallythe client.
whatever species that must beresponsible for the healing and
the healer is the facilitator.

Ronnie (18:03):
Yes, absolutely and that's the same in any species
humans too.
As you were talking I had a fewhorses, but one of them I know
and they said that sometimes wegive a little because it seems,
let me just rephrase it.
Sorry.
Sometimes we give what'sexpected or wanted just to see

(18:27):
how it feels, how it is, butalso cause we're not quite
ready.
And they're talking inprofessional.
So if somebody comes along to dosome work, they will seem to
give what's needed, but they'renot quite ready.
It's almost like.
We'll give you that because thenyou might just leave us alone
because we're not readysometimes we need the human just

(18:50):
to step back And reevaluate andsense their energy before they
come back in, because there is agentleness and then as they see
something change and there'sthis, okay, and it's almost like
they want to push past that andwhat horses are saying are that
sometimes we need you to stepback.

(19:11):
Okay, but what they're alsosaying is in the world that you
are in, it is not alwayspossible.
We understand this, but this iswhat we're asking that you step
back and you listen.
And that's all that's needed atthat time.

Tom (19:30):
Yeah, we get caught up in I got these people think I'm just
gonna clear this horse And I'vegot an hour or an hour and ten
minutes maybe and it's the humanexpectation that gets in the way
of the actual Reality of thenatural flow and what's
important often?
There are horses like that now.

(19:51):
Could you imagine it?
Well, we can imagine if you're ahorse and you have a certain
person that has a very crudeApproach and truly believes that
animals are an equus is justsort of a, oh, they're kind of
cute and fun and they haveutility, but they're pretty,
they're pretty stupid.
They're not, their frequency ispretty low.
They have very little value.

(20:11):
That's very pervasive.
And if you're going to get adifferent result from a very
weakened horse with that kind ofpractitioner's energy, as you
are with somebody that knowsnothing.
About moving the body, but hasan incredible willingness and,
and to me and, and presentationthat person, I would bet you

(20:33):
would get better results if theyattempt to do anything with the
horse because of the frequencymatch because of the in a
awakened horse, there are horsesthat have been closed off like
people and they require a verydelicate approach in their body
and back out.
And then asking, do you want togo deeper?

(20:55):
Are you willing to go deeper?
And it's not appropriate to justgo blast into their issue
because you can see it.
It's appropriate to chip away atthe outside of their defenses to
see that if they really want tobe immune and invulnerable, the
best thing they can do as ahorse, just like us, is to fully
open and go, okay, I'm in.

(21:17):
And it's not allowing, it'sbeing so energized that that is
your immunity, that is yourinvulnerability and yeah, horses
are masters, as a general rule,at teaching us how to interface
with the world and ourselves.
They really are.
They're great mirrors for us andour dysfunction.

(21:38):
Because we first have to embraceourself before we do anything
else.
But your, but your, yourdownload is talking.
I think that often we need toget out of our expectations and
look deeper at the reality ofthe energy that's going on
within a session.

Ronnie (21:58):
Absolutely.
So what happens with thecommunication is quite often if
you explain something to yourclient and you say, this is what
the horse is saying or wants torelay to you and, they're
opening themselves up andthey're being vulnerable and you
say, okay, If you could listento your horse rather than the

(22:19):
external.
If you've got somebody that'shaving lessons or they've got
somebody in and with the bestintentions in the world that
say, Oh, you should be doingthis with your horse.
What I will say is just listento your feel, your intuition and
listen to your horse and watchyour horse because your horse
knows that when you're listeningand when you're not, and if
you've had a session, cause whathappens is with a session it,

(22:40):
Help strengthen the pathwaysbetween the client, the human
and the horse.
Cause I'm just a facilitator andeven if they're not sure what's
being said or what's going on,they can feel if the horse is
happy or not.
You don't have to be a mindreader.
They will give subtle.
Suggestions by their bodylanguage or by their feel.

(23:02):
And if you feel that your horseis not quite ready for something
and you honor that and say,okay, I'll step back I'll stop.
Sometimes you doing that changesthe scenario that they'll say,
okay, now we'll try it.
And it can be literally seconds,or sometimes it can be that they
need longer and it's just beingopen to trusting that.

(23:27):
That guidance, that connectionthat you have and applying that
knowledge to what's going on atthat moment.
Does that make sense?

Tom (23:35):
Yes.
Yes.
It's funny cause a lot of ourwell, actually all of our
intuitive hits and ourinterpretations and what we're
receiving intuitively, what thehorse's demeanor is and so on.
We'll always have a palpable.
Resonance in the 3D world,meaning one of the first things

(23:58):
I do is I go up to the under theupper lip of a horse.
Most sources, there's some, youknow, and I'm looking for the
frequency of the physical, theenergetic frequency of the
horse, and it will have an ebband a flow.
And what I'm trying to do isalign with that.
So I can get a feel for wherethey are.
If they're chaotic, if they'reunsure, all of that's in my hand

(24:21):
as well.
And then I just hold it and.
Add energy to it and try toenhance it.
Yes.
I see where the physical blocksare along the spine to address
later and to question and see,but I'm really asking, and I'm
having dialogue to bringyourself fully here, who you

(24:42):
really are.
And I am here in a equanimousfashion.
I hold my space and I hold myboundaries, but I'm here in an
equanimous fashion to help youbecome you.
This isn't about you just beingbetter at upper level massage
today.
It's about you being able todance who you really are.

(25:04):
And when you do that, then youget different approaches in the
body response differently.
And if you do not, it's moredrudgery.
It's more drudgery.
That to me is the, you gotta laythe foundation there.
And it's not a lot of time inthe 3d world.
It's a, Saturation of the rightintention and the right
approach.

Ronnie (25:26):
Thank you Tom.
Can I just go back a little bit?

Tom (25:29):
You bet.

Ronnie (25:29):
For people that didn't catch the last interview, would
you like to explain when yourhorse is mirroring something
with the person that's involvedwith that horse.

Tom (25:39):
Mirroring, that's a pretty good label for it.
And that phenomenon and I stillcall it that a little bit
exists.
Profoundly and exquisitely withhuman and horses and there's
different levels of it and itcertainly exists with our
domestic animals.
I believe it exists.

(26:01):
It's a phenomena of differentproportions and different extent
throughout we're all connected.
And so it exists in family andso on it goes, but in the human
horse world, the first of all,horses are intimately conscious
of it.
It's not, very rarely do youhave a horse that goes, Oh, I
didn't know I was doing that.
What I mean by marrying is, ifyou're connected with a horse,

(26:26):
And generally that looks like ahorse you're emotionally and
your heart to heart with them.
It is not necessarily a horse,however, that you are super in
compassion with.
It might, it's a horse that justis very connected.
It might just be one that youride and train a lot.
And some people that havemultiple horses, there'll be

(26:47):
different mirroring in eachhorse.
Very specific, very, it's verydirect.
So in a general sense, mirroringis the horse will take on in
their own body.
Physicality.
The deepest.
Here's the catch on this.
The essence of dysfunction.

(27:07):
That is the what the osteopathscalled the AGR, which just means
area of greatest restriction.
Your core dysfunction is what Iwould call it.
The horse will illuminate thatin their body.
There might be more certainlymore than one and they carry it.
And part of me looks at them andsays, why do you carry it for
us?

(27:27):
Why don't you just keep showingit to us?
And the, I have never gotten asuper clear, consistent answer
to that.
It's a contract with them.
It is not negotiable to try totell them to let go.
So they hold it.
So when I'm working on the horseand I come close to one of
those, whether I know it or not,they, the air changes.

(27:48):
They know what I know and theygo, okay, you, you do this, you
know how to deal with this.
So we're going to, I'm going tostop you, ask you to stop.
And I'm telling you right now,what you're working on is not
mine.
It's his or hers.
Okay.
Then they love to, even weak oldfoals do this.

(28:09):
Go to your fingers.
On different hands.
And these are ting points, butrepresenting organ or system,
but they're really a gateway inthere.
Never.
Oh, that's it.
That's it.
That's it.
But they're dang close.
So what I do is I take that andI take the intuition in my left
brain and I go, okay, what doesthat finger mean?
And I track it to the person'sissue where it lives in their

(28:33):
body.
And it always has a focal pointwhere it lives in the body.
It's not dispersed everywhere.
It's effect maybe, but it livesin a particular, I call them
energetic path cysts.
They literally have very strongheavy energy that's not in sync
and the horses see it, they knowit, they illuminated and

(28:54):
Especially if I have a horse whoclient has a very severe, that
needs medical attention, verytimely, like I'm allergic to
tumor or a blood vessel, that'sgoing to be an aneurysm or these
things, they will go very earlyin a session and redirect me
into that path and we'll standthere with me as I go into the

(29:14):
human, as they're standing thereand illuminated and they are.
adding and collaborating with myenergy.
So the effectiveness on a humanstanding there is much bigger
with me and a horse than it isby myself.
And the miracles just go on andon when that happens.

(29:35):
And that's when my passion justgoes that I live for that
because it's never, it is insacred place.
And I cannot tell you how manyMy wife wants me to write a book
just on this testimonials ofpeople that had severe
debilitating injuries that wouldhave taken them out where their
horse illuminated.

(29:55):
I illuminated it and they wentand sought attention or we were
able to clear it and they'restill here to talk about it.
And that was a profound healingshifts that really, I consider
that as an equals shift and I'mreally the, yeah.
The interpreter, I mean, somehorses are just geared for that.

(30:17):
Some develop that I have somehorses not my own, but I do have
one that's my own, but wherethey're willing to take outside
people that have the rightattitude that cannot be
diagnosed for debilitatingautoimmune disease or whatever,
and.
come to where I'm at and thehorse within a couple minutes

(30:37):
reads it and goes right into allof the allopathic tests and MRIs
and CAT scans and blood markerarrays.
They go right into it and theyfind out what it is.
And then my job is to go withthe horse and illuminate why
it's there.
What does it mean?
Where did you go off purpose?
And it's profound how good theyare.
And this is a horse that's not,doesn't even know the person.

(31:00):
They just do that as service tohumanity is what they do.
And there is my point, though,is the results are they speak
for themselves.
And this, to me, is what theyare really here for.
And what does that mean?
Because when you get rid of yourdysfunctions, you, of course,
you become more who you are.
You become more awakened.
You become more powerful.

(31:21):
And that is what they tell meover and over.
We are here on this planet toawaken humanity, period, period.
Do they want to run, jump, play?
Yeah.
But their biggest focus issimply that.
That's what they're here for.

Ronnie (31:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
You don't know why they carryit, why they carry our own
baggage.
So I know what I know in myfield.
You don't need to knoweverything because otherwise be
quite mind blowing but it is toreflect back to you to highlight
what's going on in your life.
If you have somebody that'spushing things down, especially

(31:57):
now at this moment in time, it'sabout feeling allowing it to
come through and not pushing itdown and not always analyzing
it, just allowing itacknowledging it, whatever this
is, this emotion and allowing itto come through and actually
feel it.
Without the emotional responsewe normally have yeah, I

Tom (32:22):
think that that is natural law and universal law throughout
time and space.
Especially things that reallybother us.
I mean, there is a time when youneed to put them aside, but the
reality is we should spend sometime.
Pretty much every day.
Before we want to invigorate ourenergetic body and our physical
body, just either lettingwhatever comes up or something

(32:47):
that's been bothering us is tofully walk into it, no matter
how uncomfortable and then getout of the way and just evoke
with breath, allowing to me,allowing is an action and don't
get in the way.
Don't try to guide it, but walkinto it completely.
all of it.

(33:08):
And when you do that, you wouldbe surprised how much will begin
to transmute and leave you howit leaves you.
Often it's the feet, sometimesit's through the breast,
sometimes through the hands orthroughout the body.
But it is a discharge of that.
And I think that's probably thebiggest Biggest health plan.
We got and and it's just naturallot horses need to be.

(33:30):
What's interesting is they canbe incredibly intuitive and
incredibly insightful, and yetthey need help.
It kind of always amazes me,even to this day, with very
simple.
How to manage their energy.
Often they need a lot of workwith how to manage their energy,
even though they have perceptualskills that we quite frankly do

(33:51):
not, and a lot of that obviouslyhas to do with how to deal with
energies that aren't theirs,that are, that are heavy
energies that are notappropriate to hold, like we're
talking about, and put on by thehorse by, by other, by humans
and the environment and otherhorses and so on.
But they need to be aware ofthose, conscious of those and

(34:13):
help move them through them.
And it's an intention.
And once you get'em in play onthat, oh, they do it beautifully
and then they can teach others.
But why they drop that, frankly,it's, it's fascinating.
They have trouble managing theirenergy at times.

Ronnie (34:28):
Mm-Hmm.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Yes, I can see that.
But I didn't realize to whatdegree.
So what was coming through asyou were.
Relaying that back to me was thereason that they want us to be
more in touch with ourselves.
So this might sound a little bithairy fairy and people watching
this might think really?
But why they want us to get intouch with ourselves is the more

(34:51):
we are aware of our own physicalenergy, what thoughts do, how
diseases are formed, howimbalances are created, the more
we are aware of that, the morewe are able to find tools to
help with that situation.
And as we become fine tuned andWhen I'm saying aware, it's your

(35:16):
senses become more widened, butyou don't have to be still to
feel that it starts to benaturally in your day to day.
So your senses can be heightenedif you are busy doing something,
it's almost like they've got adirect link or your energy's got
a direct link saying, are youlistening?
This is going on.

(35:36):
And the more aware of that weare about ourselves, the more
aware.
Instantly, quicker, we can bewith the animals and people
around us, but also to notabsorb what we don't need to.
That's very important.
This is, this is part of what,they're not just here to teach

(35:57):
us lessons.
They're not here for ourbenefit, just for that.
You know, they're here toexperience their own lives too.
They have their own destiny andthey have things to fulfill
themselves.
But that's what's comingthrough, the more aware you are
of you, the more aware you areof me.
The less you need to ask becauseI will know, you will feel, it

(36:19):
will be.
You won't need to ask, it willjust be.
And that goes to riding,physical things.
There'll be a time when we don'tneed to ask, it will just be
there, but we're not.
At that place yet.
Because we have to work throughit.
As much as we want to be there,we won't have learnt.

(36:42):
You can't miss the alphabet.
You've got to go through thealphabet.
You can't miss it because eachletter is important.
Each point is important.

Tom (36:53):
Yeah, and yet using the analogy of the alphabet, many of
us came in knowing the alphabetvery well in Metaphorically.
So I think most of the work thatwe do, or I do, especially with
students is to help themremember and.
They already have these innateabilities and they need to

(37:16):
connect with their deeper selvesand just feelings of
awesomeness, if you will.
And when you do that on theinside, you cannot not do that
on the outside and the worldaround you can not not feel it.
And when you're in a naturalsetting, it's been proven even
with our modern day diagnosticmachines, the trees.

(37:38):
The shrubs if you want to do itto a bird or whatever, they all
respond to your feelings offlow, of beauty, of compassion,
of love, and they shift as well.
The trees have been known real,real easily to respond to
people's intention and thoughtpatterns and emotional states.

(38:01):
Quite perfectly and just theintention of harming a tree will
shift its electrical frequencyon the spot.
And that's been, there's lots ofstudies out there showing that,
but it's this connection andthat begs the question, well, we
try to close off to protectourselves.
We're taught to close off, towithdraw, and the reality is,

(38:23):
well, that might be true in avery acute situation short term,
but if you are venturing intothe world and you're out there,
you need to feel and be yourselfin compassionate flow, and that
to me is A true physicalimmunity, and I'm sure that the
ability to deal with parasites,infectors, and viruses and that

(38:45):
goes way up when you're in thatstate of mind, and that's our
natural state of mind.
The problem is we only hit itintermittently, and we're, we're
moving as a species as we livethere almost completely.
That's, that's our inheritance,that's who we are.
And It's our birthright.
And what I say to people is, whoare you not to do that?

(39:07):
Because we come to this so muchwith, I'm not good enough.
And that belief, we need to getrid of that belief over all of
them.
And I just see all the, ah,yeah, that's coming up.
The, the darker, aggressiveenergies out there are really so
far lost.
They just want to feel that somuch that they're aggravated and

(39:29):
they, all of their internalmanipulation and parasitic
actions, all based on themtrying to restore themselves to
what I'm just talking about.
And that to me is, that's whathealing really is, you know?
And the physical body respondsand dances and becomes immune
and able to withstand more andmore physicality and even more

(39:52):
toxicity in this toxic world,which we gotta have right now.
Yeah,

Ronnie (39:58):
it's funny I was talking to somebody the other day
Because I said to you that Irecently moved and it was on the
cars and and it's something thatI've been asking for, but even
when it's something you want andyou've got all the assistance
and the help that you need, andpeople are being kind to you,

(40:20):
you've still got your ownemotions that you're going
through, letting go of old partof your life and starting to
embrace the new part.
And you're in that middle noman's land sometimes.
Yeah, so when you go on aholiday and you've had a nice
relaxing holiday and the sunshining and you can let go now
and you have that nice calmnessabout you, when you come back

(40:42):
from your holiday and you'reback into your routine, because
you've experienced that feel inthe holiday mode and you've come
out of it, it feels And Iexplained to somebody that once
you become more aware of yourown center, your own quiet

(41:05):
place, you can call itmeditation, or balance where
you're just not really talking,you're just feeling and sensing
how you're reacting tosomething, so you're observing
yourself.
The more you get climatized withthat feel, when you come out of
it, it feels ten times worse.
Yes.
It feels hard.

(41:26):
It feels chaotic and you almosthave a feel of, Oh my God,
what's going on?
I thought I dealt with this.
I thought it was fine.
Why does it feel so hard?
And it's because that is such a.
Great place to be and it's whereyou are meant to be.
So it's not like you're in aglass bubble and you're

(41:46):
meditating on a hilltop all day.
That's not right.
But that feel, even in a chaoticworld, that feel you can still
have.
And you are observing yourselfreacting to external situations
conversations.
You can observe yourself.
And just watch yourself.
And that feel is a great placeto be.

(42:08):
But when you come out of it, itfeels bigger because you know
the difference.
Before then you'd notice it alittle bit.
But when you've tasted it, whenyou know what that's like, you
notice it big time.
And I was trying to explain tosomebody that all it's doing is
letting you know that that's notthe place you need to be.
That is not where you'reintended to be.

(42:29):
This is the place.
You can fluctuate, but not tothat place.
So it's self learning and it'ssomething you can't always
explain to somebody because itis a feel.
It's a feel.

Tom (42:42):
Yeah well, that's that's core concept.
That is another perspective onwhat we're talking about.
If you've ever been in thatplace, and it's always an
unhurried expansive awarenessand.
Just full, it's exudingcompassion.
That's for sure.
And that, and you get there andyou go, you know, Ah, I made it.

(43:05):
Cause you are.
And I, when I, I've had timeswhen I've in that state of mind,
it's always.
going home.
It just feels it isn't a newplace.
It's just, oh yeah, that's what,that's what I'm, you know, or,
or, you know, it's being in yourtrue self is extremely powerful,
extremely balanced with thedivine feminine, the divine male

(43:29):
is very effective on both endsof that spectrum.
And it's all about being in loveand being in service, if you
will, and and being perceptualto see negativity coming and,
and nothing really bothers you.
And when I've been in thosestates of mind I don't want to
go to sleep because I know I'llprobably not wake up in the same
place.
And then you get the feelingsof, I'm not good enough because

(43:51):
I can't stay there.
Well, you have to lose that.
But once you taste that place,And I, from what I've seen in my
studies of lots and lots ofpeople teaching over the years,
both in the healing arts and inthe educational system most
people have never quite touchedtheir true place in this

(44:11):
lifetime and they've come close.
But if you touch that place,even for a minute, the rest of
your life is defined by it.
You cannot not, you have nochoice, but to keep pursuing
that.
You can go off track with thatchoice, with, with logistical
needs, but everything'sdetermined by it.

(44:32):
Then the other side of that isI'll take students through a A
quick visualization in manyclasses where I asked them to
find a time when they felt, andI kind of evoke that close to
this feeling, or most of it, orsome of them certainly have, and
the closest they can get, what Iwant them to do is get a sense
and essence of that feeling,even though they're not there,

(44:55):
even if they've been there, andhold it.
The minute they do that, thatentrains their body to run that
frequency.
at a level that's not reallyhigh amplitude, but it makes
massive differences in theirability to then go out on horses
and to put their hands on horsesand to help that horse to move.

(45:18):
So the first thing I askstudents and myself is to align
with that frequency, even ondays when like, man, I'm out of
it.
I don't have it.
I don't have it.
You'd be surprised if you evokethe frequency and you get out of
the way, you come back in.
To at least a functional leveland I'm asking the same of
equals.
I'm asking them to their higherself to come in and we're going

(45:40):
for the deeper true meaning ofwhy we're here and what's going
on.
And that is to me, the coreessence of that of any healing
station of any healer in anymodality throughout time.
That was really good.
You have to have this, you justgot to have what is, you know,
and it's our inheritance.

Ronnie (46:00):
Thank you.
That was very well explained.
We've got quite a few listeners.
It's lovely to have you here.
If anybody's got any questionsfor Tom, please leave a message
can you see these messages, Tom?
It's people just saying hi, oh,

Tom (46:15):
I do.
Okay.
I got your comments.
I do have one question that popsup that looks.
Yeah, go ahead.
It's off of Facebook.
When we are working with thehorse via training, the
mirroring.
In other words, does it onlyshow up when you're trying to
clear the horse's body than thehuman's?
That's a great question.
Yes, it's always showing up.

(46:35):
It's always in play.
Sometimes it shows up withbehavior, obviously.
True, good, naturalhorsemanship.
People like Warwick Schiller andthe like are always talking
about watch your intention andyour energy.
And see how it changes as youalign with the horse, how the
horse aligns with you.
It certainly does now on aphysical level, a great example

(46:58):
of this.
I work with a lot of, you know,really skilled trainers,
physiotherapists who are very,very, very clear and minutely
managing a writer's bodyposition in the saddle and the
horse's movement and so on.
And what, one of the thingsyou'll find, we're talking
about.
Mirroring as well is let'spretend we have a horse that's

(47:18):
completely cleared.
And we have a owner that has atwisted pelvis from a injury or
some intestinal issue orwhatever, and their pelvis sits
lower and so they seat lower.
And, and it's very obviousyou're going to have a writing
biodynamic situation there thatyou're going to have to try to
mitigate and so on.

(47:41):
That's one level.
That's not the highest level.
Let's pretend the owner's beenworked with structurally and
they're pretty aligned, but theyhave a liver problem and they
have a lung grief problem andthey have a job problem.
Let's just do that.
And we have a horse that wecleared really well, like an

(48:01):
hour before.
And I do these sometimes atexpos to, to illuminate this,
the minute their owner has to betheir owner.
It won't work if.
The person's, it's not a horsethey're connected to, touches
that horse, let alone gets inthe saddle.
Those organs, if they're deepcore issues in the human,
immediately go and spasm on thehorse.
So now the horse can't move.

(48:21):
In the exact same, I can predictexactly what's going to go on
here.
And if it's the jaw that's indysfunction, the ilium and the
hip on that side is going to bein dysfunction.
So, and that's real easy toilluminate.
And this is an aspect of thephysical biomechanics of a core
issue in a human reflectingright into the horse.

(48:44):
And before we go any further,there are times where it goes to
the human from the horse.
There are times when commonly aperson goes out and buys a new
horse.
And that'd be damn if that horsedoesn't come with the same
issues the person already hadand use or acquires it.
There's many times when I've hadclients where their horses

(49:05):
always have these debilitatingspecific dysfunctions and then
they sell the horse.
And they don't listen and theydon't listen.
They get a new horse.
They asked me to come and clearit, dah, dah, dah, dah.
And then you give it a three orfour or five months up.
The horse came up with the exactsame symptomology, exact same
thing.
Why?
Because it's they're mirroringwhat's coming through the human.

(49:26):
And it's a sacred thing.
It is just the phenomenon thatis, I like to illuminate it.
To find traction and to giveequals voice and all of us can
do that.
All of us do do that at adifferent level.
And I just encourage you toplay.
I do like finding verificationfor it on multiple levels
because it helps us to well, forone, to see and believe.

(49:49):
The native peoples over here allhave a saying, and it's saying
no matter how woo something is,it has to grow corn.
And corn in the native world,unlike the GMO world now, it Is
a great symbol for blessings oflife and food and abundance.
So it has to have traction inthe 3d world.
And so I, I totally agreed.

(50:11):
And the more woo something is,the more the horse wants you to
see it in the here and now.
And that's kind of what I do fora living is illuminated for the
horse.
And, and anyway, there's somepretty good comments coming in.

Ronnie (50:23):
Yeah.
So can we work on your ownhorses?
If so, what, if they aremirroring, can we work on our
own horses?

Tom (50:31):
Hence the reason why it's so dang hard to work on your own
horse.
And, and we have so much emotionwith it.
That is a phenomena that's trueeven in the Hippocratic oath
that most medical doctors takethere is a section in there that
talks about thou shall not workon their own family if they
don't mean it like an absolutebut they're even aware that geez

(50:55):
these are just not good outcomesfor some reason and really I
don't have a mastery on why thatis I just know that your What
your expectations are with yourown horse can often be skewed
and muddled.
I would say muddled like amuddy, muddy pond or a muddy
lake.
And however, if.

(51:16):
It one day everything feelsclear.
Those are the best sessions I'veever had with my own horses
coming in and saying, okay,let's get down to business now.
And they it's not that you can'thave profound healing.
It doesn't mean that, but it'sjust, There's too many layers to
go through without someintermediate help for most of us

(51:37):
to be effective and notfrustrated.
And other than that, I don'thave the greatest answers for
that other than try to find away to get out of your own way
and get into your core and getthem in your core.
And then that's when it happens.

Ronnie (51:51):
Well, we always have an agenda, even if we don't think
we do.
And I'm talking about personalexperience even doing what I do,
it's harder with your own.
My own horse has shown me and itwas funny.
This was a few years ago.
It was in the evening, it wasdark and she was at the bottom
of the field.
And I still poop it when it'sdark that's my grounding.
I can just switch off from work.

(52:13):
And I was thinking she'd comedown and I was like, why won't
she come down?
So I started to walk up to herand she just stood there staring
at me in the distance.
And I could just see a littleears cause it was dark.
And I was thinking why won't youcome down toots?
And then I was feeling agitated,I just want to give you a hug.
You know, why won't you comedown?

(52:34):
And basically what she wassaying is, I can see your sparks
from here, girl.
But that's what she was saying.
No, you know you need to offloadfirst.
So I was poo picking and I wasgetting.
There's a great example, right?
And as soon as I realized,because I talked to myself a lot
and as soon as I realized that'swhat it was, I just let go And

(52:55):
she walked down, she walked downthe field.

Tom (52:58):
And there is the proof in the pudding.
And you know, that begs anotherthing that we had talked about
before on our own, and that iswhatever you learn and you begin
to acquire mastery of or not,and it's important to you.
The horses know it and how theyknow it.
They're connected to this, Iwould just call it the

(53:19):
collective, the equinecollective.
And if you embrace being clearand clearing your energy, of
course, she's going to call youon it.
And so working with your ownhorse, you have to be open to
going, what is he, she really,why, why are they being
standoffish right now?

(53:39):
Why are they not?
Cause if they won't let you inon them physically, they're
probably being standoffish evenif you're touching them.
So they're, they're, they're noteasy teachers all the time.
They're gonna call you on yourstuff.
And that's why you have to beopen to, okay, what is my stuff
and be open to them and just be,Aware of what they're trying to

(54:00):
tell you, but you know, on a.
other way of proving that thefirst time I learned blood and
this now is true with everystudent I've ever seen, at least
on the advanced level, when theylearn a master, a big, huge,
different, hugely effectivephysical technique, like how to,

(54:20):
how to unwind blood vesselspasms because they're
incredibly powerful anddebilitating.
I remember learning it andcoming back from the osteoclast
class.
And going, I don't know how I'mgoing to do this on horses.
Cause my training is on peopleand dogs or something, you know,
mostly human osteo and applyingit to the horse was, is not
always straightforward.
So I come back after, I don'tknow, five, six days away and I

(54:42):
have horses right away.
And I go to these horses and I'mdoing my normal thing.
And there was a medicalintuitive there by the name of
Mary Argo, who would shadow mein those days.
And she says, this horse wantsyou to do the subclavian artery.
And I'm like, Mary, where's thesubclavian artist?
She goes, I have no idea.
The horse automatics is, no,you're not getting a pass on

(55:02):
this.
I want you to, we want you tolearn this blood.
We're probably the ones thatsent you to the class in the
first place.
And I had.
They, they knew that I knew theblood, well, at least at a level
that was good enough to go in.
It's, it's the try that mattersand they do that over and over
and over.
You go learn anything deep or ameditative technique or
whatever.

(55:22):
If it's profound, they're goingto know it and they're gonna
nudge you, maybe not socomfortably sometimes to bring
it up, bring yourself forward,step into your light and go into
where you're uncomfortable, butwhere you need to be.
And they do it for a living.
So they do.

Ronnie (55:41):
Thank you, Tom.
So this is Sally Spencer.
What you've described here, themirroring in the course of
groundwork exercise and howfound accurs as running
frequency through my body andthe horse receives this and
makes an effort accordingly.
I find this possibility comes tome first.
I run the energy and the horsedoes the same.

(56:02):
This is in the moment, ofcourse.
I'm reading this out loud forthe benefit of the audio
afterwards.
So that core issue takes form.
So I am asking your feeling onintention in the creating, the
feeling in itself and the horseresponse by doing the same.
What are your experiences onthis?

(56:22):
I'm not very good at readinglong paragraph.

Tom (56:25):
Yeah.
That to me is merging with thehorse, aligning frequencies,
intention and sending it.
And a distance is not thelimiting factor here.
In my work, I'm doing it reallyfrom the inside out.
I'm going into the body.
This is really the same thing.
It's the same thing on theoutside of the body.

(56:45):
You're, you're asking fordynamic gross motor movement
and, and, but it's about thisaligning of frequency and you
initiate it sometimes andsometimes the horse initiates
it.
And so how it's a dance, it's,it's, it's a sacred dance and
yeah, you know, it's the same.
I see it the same thing and itfeels the same.

(57:07):
And where I still really rundoubt and I don't know why I
just don't go there a lot isworking on horses at a distance
and the distance I'm talkingabout.
Not just full distance.
I'm in my house and they'reacross the world, but like if
they're, there'll be wildMustangs out here where we are

(57:28):
and I'll be out riding multipletimes this has happened.
And I keep getting there in my,they're in, in my flow.
They're in my flow, but they'retwo, 300 yards away.
And I turn around and look, andthere's always a lead horse.
The one that's talking and theyasked me to heal something on
one of them.
Usually it's not the persontalking.

(57:48):
That's one of them.
And so I do a connection withthem and do much like I was on
their body, but I'm 200 yardsaway and the releases, the
entire herd will release andyawn and the horse will shudder
where I was working on it.
And it is.
Let's just put it this way inone sentence.
We have been conditioned to notbelieve in the immensity of our

(58:10):
power and it's this connectionenergetic that is our power.

Ronnie (58:14):
You know, when he was talking about Wu earlier, for
me, the more we dress somethingup With phrases and I'm being
very careful how I say this.
Sometimes a ritual is somethingthat we do to help us focus our
energy and it's not the actualritual or the tools because it's
always from the divine energythat flows through us, but it

(58:36):
just quietens the mind so thatcan take place.
And sometimes when we dress itup.
When we make things moretheatrical than they need to be,
or we have a lot of energy andas you said, you know earlier,
you don't do two, you're workingwith, you're having a
conversation with a body, with amind, with a soul, and when you

(58:59):
have it on that level, that iswhere more visual, and longevity
happens if you're just doingtwo, you're doing the external,
you're working on the external,not the internal, not the
sensory.
A little while ago, somebody wastalking to me, they're asking me
can you give an example ofworking with a horse, how that

(59:24):
manifested into the human somuch that that was their light
bulb moment, their start intheir journey of energy?
So if something comes throughthat you're allowed to talk
about, because this was a littlewhile ago, but I didn't want to
interrupt you.

Tom (59:40):
Those are great questions.
I think one of my goals is tohave that in a good audio visual
format so that you can feel theenergy of it, watching it, you
know?
And it happens, almost everysession.
And if it doesn't happen everysession, it is probably
inappropriate for the horse andme to do that to the owner at

(01:00:02):
that moment, but we certainlyare going to break open the
owner's frequency at a certainlevel that just watching the
session, they cannot be the samewhen they walk away.
That's just the way it is.
And it isn't cause I have a lotof stuff.
It's just, if you invoke thattype of mindset, that is what
occurs.
But let's, let's say there'soften, let's say, especially if

(01:00:23):
I'm out and I'm at a stable andI'm working three or four
horses, whatever.
And I might be, let's say on thethird horse and I'm just going
through a major physical patternof distortion.
That's causing a huge amount ofphysical lameness and on that.
And as I go along and I get intonot a protocol, but a physical.
Even if it's an energeticmovement through, I'm in that

(01:00:46):
sort of clearing the body mode,I will get something will happen
sometimes I'll see it coming.
Sometimes it'll just, I'll flowinto it and the horse, I will
feel it frequency wise.
First, the horse's posture and Iset changes and that's my clue
and their clue to me that weneed to shift the focus of this,

(01:01:09):
Session to where it reallybelongs and this deep thing that
you just touched in me being thehorse Let's go find it in the
human.
So I already have an idea whereit is So what I would say is if
you're interested in that seehow equals will talk to you on
facebook while back I posted thea little bit of a description on
these fingers because it's agreat interface.

(01:01:31):
It's an intuitive physicalinterface that you can get
verification on where you mightget some, not just organ systems
that are in dysfunction, they'reilluminating, but that's, that's
fine sometimes by itself, butwhat kind of emotion or
dysfunction may be there orwhere is the real issue here?
So I, anyway, I'll be working ona horse and something will, the

(01:01:55):
energy, the ground literallychanges.
And the frequency is stills andthen they'll tell me it's about
the human in the old days.
I wasn't sure what who they weretalking about.
And then they will come to myfinger or not.
And then I will look at themwith my intention.
I'll either voice.
I usually voice it because Iwant the person to be involved

(01:02:18):
and say, who are you?
Who are you talking about?
So, for instance, if they Yeah.
If they come to let me just saythey came to this thumb on my
end, they had, and if they dothat, I offer all 10 fingers so
they can do left and right.
Give me more information.
So if they come to my rightthumb, I will say to them and

(01:02:38):
I'll touch it.
Not usually more than sometimesmore than one finger, but that's
it.
They're not looking for carrotsand not looking for treats.
They're communicating with theenergy of the thumb.
You go, yeah.
Okay.
Then my job is to say, well,whom are you talking about?
Cause there have been times whenthey've said, I'm talking about
you.
I want to get back to you and Iwant you to see it.
There's been certain like, andyou gotta be open to it.

(01:03:00):
And if there's somebodywatching, that's really in
trouble physically, they may betalking about a bystander
because I frequently have lotsof people watching.
Anyway.
She's the owner.
So at that point, we, I walkover to the owner, the horse
always follows.
And I go up to the owner in thiscase, I would go to hit her,
let's say her right lung.

(01:03:23):
So I might ask the owner to dothe same.
The horse will duplicate theright.
And they're always accurate.
So I go, my job then is toenergetically go into the right
lung and see upper lobe, bottomlobe, right lung.
Where is the cyst?
Where is the focal point ofdysfunction?

(01:03:44):
And then what I do is I go intothat and the horse is going in
with me energetically through, Ibelieve their eyes.
That would be I'm not looking atthe horse, so I really should
see my own video.
And they're with me though.
I can tell you thatenergetically, our, our
frequencies are exponential thanindividual.
And I go into that and Iilluminate that and I awaken it.

(01:04:06):
And it's usually a shadow.
The person's often going, well,I didn't even know I had that
there.
And then I say, well, was therea trauma here or something?
Sometimes it's not a physicaltrauma.
And then I'll get intuitiveinformation.
And then that's when it comes inreally clear.
Cause I saw it's as if I'm rightthere with it.
And often I will get I may get atimeframe, go back very, very

(01:04:29):
common.
We'll be, and my wife inCrenshaw sickle and other people
that do the emotional works arethe same three years old or
seven years old.
They tend to be some sort ofswitching times in our lives as
we're growing up.
And there, when I get three.
Now sometimes I'll go, is thatthree years ago or three years?
Three years old.
She's usually three and it's, Itake them back to that time.

(01:04:50):
Now I have a hold of the energyof it and almost everybody can
then say, well, yeah, I this isthis, this happened to me.
And it's when they got shut offas vibrant beings.
And it's very common by wellintentioned parents, but it's
our conditioning.
Often it's a child thatespecially females where they,

(01:05:11):
Start talking about grandpa whopassed where they where he comes
to see them at night and theyvoice it and they're adamant
about that.
It's real.
And grandma, our mom goes, shutyour mouth, child.
You can't be talking like thatbecause we still have the
history of, you know, you can'thave children talking like that.
The whole family is going to getin trouble or burns at stake.
So at that point in the modernworld, those days are somewhat

(01:05:34):
over, at least in that covertway.
I Illuminate this energy and askthem to go into it and fully
embrace it.
And the horse goes in with me.
Sometimes the horse will go inand breathe into it and pull out
with me.
Even people who are not open toenergy when the horse does that,
it's as if they cannot doanything but go forward through
it, their horses awakening themin an hour session, massive.

(01:06:00):
Dimensional levels.
And they stepped into somethingand they just go with it.
And the horse, I hate to use theword, but they sell this whole
thing.
Pay attention to this, stay withthis.
If you really want to be closeto me, be close to you.
And we go into the tissuephysically, and it comes to
crescendo, the divine male comesin, and I nudge the, you know,
The issue out of the lung, andsometimes the horse will release

(01:06:23):
it for the human.
But then also the horse willlook at me if I didn't get it
all.
They'll tell me and thecompletion energy and the
groundedness will change and theperson will look at you like I
have no idea what the hellhappened, but it was a big deal.
And they usually come back andsay, thank you so much for doing
this and this and this.
And then I go, well, you shouldthank your horse.

(01:06:43):
Cause it was really the horse.
I was the facilitator and that'sthe truth.
You know, but I hope that sortof gives you a flow.
I may be working on it,something or wanting to
illuminate a deep issue.
The horse will, will transferthe issue that the focus is on
the human.
Now, sometimes if the person'snot open to it, you're not going

(01:07:04):
to go in and move their lungissue.
Okay.
I illuminate the place that's indysfunction such that there's a
physical pain there that theyhave to face it and, and give
them information on Okay, youneed to go to this.
Here's some people that areprobably good for you to go to,
to go get that cleared.
I do that a lot where I referout or refer out, or I don't

(01:07:25):
have time to clear it on theperson or it's not my intention.
Or it's not appropriate and theygo and do that.
And those are they're profoundand that's the horse is always
correct.
Always.
They're just dead on and I askthem sometimes I go, well, how
is it that you can just seethese things and you can go to
the finger to illuminate it andthey kind of look at us and

(01:07:47):
they'll kind of give us sort ofa disgusted look like it's like,
do you see that the light bulbsover there?
Do you see the bright one?
Yeah.
Well, that's what we see.
It's very obvious to us.
And how to communicate.
It's not so easy.
So that's really many times.
Our job is to just apply themessage.

(01:08:09):
Anyway, I hope that gives adifferent look at at what it may
look like.
You know, no substitute forbeing there and being the human
because advice, you know, ordoing, you know, that's, that's
really where you sense it.
I know my students, when theywatch it, you cannot.

(01:08:30):
In cranial sacral, we do one ofthe classes we do is this model
emotional work and ideally mylittle left brain expectation
says, okay, today and the nextday, the two days here, we're
going to be working on unwindingilluminating emotional
dysfunction in horses.
And.
In horses, too, that they own ontheir own, and they're human.

(01:08:52):
The problem with that is theuniverse doesn't work that way.
It works that way when it'smeant to work that way.
So what ends up happening is Itell the students that we will
stop whatever technique we aredoing.
If this occurs, we're going togo into the emotion when the
universe, when spirit says so.
And and then I illuminatetechniques.

(01:09:13):
We have to engage that emotionin that realm.
And it's not something that wecan evoke because we want to,
it's something that we ask for,and we have the intention of
going in and the universe andyou step into it.
It's as, as it should be, youknow?

Ronnie (01:09:31):
That was a brilliant explanation.
Thank you.
I was just going to say the worddivine timing it doesn't mean
biblical divine timing.
It's just literally, we can'tsee all the pages and what I'm
getting shown now is just likeyour neuron pathways, there's
grids, there's avenues, and theyhave to be lined up for the
process to flow.

(01:09:52):
So that's what the divine timingis.
And if it's right for all peopleinvolved, that's what will
happen.
So we've got another question.
I'm just going to pop this lastquestion up and then I think
that'll be it Tom, because we'vebeen on quite a while and I
don't want you to get too tired.
So Yeah, that's what I waslooking for.
Okay.
What do you do for horses withtrauma in areas C1 not

(01:10:13):
neurologically problem?

Tom (01:10:15):
Yeah, well, it's going to be somewhat neurological, but
that's great.
That is the OA joint that he'sreferring to.
And that is the most dominant,effective joint in the body.
Disruptions in that joint.
With the Atlas and so on we'llcreate a massive amount of
distortion downstream andupstream.
So primarily what do I do?
I assess it right away.

(01:10:37):
Energetically with, with cranialsacral rhythm will be inhibited.
So that whole output to thewhole neural systems inhibited.
Then what I do, which is alittle different than most
people out there by a long shotis I will.
Cool.
Look to any blood vasculardysfunctions there.
And I start back at the heartand do that whole thing.

(01:10:59):
And I unwind the juggler up inthrough all the major blood
vessels in there.
And they all have energetics,especially the blood vessels
between the OA joint.
And there's two or three mainones.
In about 5 10 minutes, then atthat point, I do a still point,
cranial sacral still point.
Very common, powerful techniquethat's pretty easy to learn.

(01:11:20):
And what you're essentiallydoing is shutting off the
cranial sacral rhythm.
And what that does is it asks itwhen you shut the rhythm off by
holding it.
Even it's gonna be efficient.
The body's energy.
Maybe it's even the brainrecruits.
It has so much to do.
It doesn't even know theproblems there, and it begins to

(01:11:41):
address it and sends in allkinds of helpers and energies to
move that tissue.
Then I do a lot of mobilizationstandard move the Atlas.
down.
And what's really interesting isthe divine feminine that moves
the atlas down.
And I come over the atlas and Iuse really light energy, but
lots of intentional energy and Ilet it unwind down and I'm

(01:12:04):
opening space in that joint.
And that's a key place to do todo that.
Now that joint Often is thecause of, well, it is the cause
90 percent of the time of headshaker syndrome because there's
a lot of nerves that come outthere.
If I had a bone, a skull here, Ishould do that next time.
The other one that is really keyfor this discussion today is it

(01:12:26):
will block the flow ofespecially the ventral vagal
nerve often.
It won't let it through andventral vagal nerve to me, I
think a better name for that isthe sole nerve.
It is.
Managing and regulating, Ithink, everything in the body.
I have not yet found a spot itdoes not go to.

(01:12:46):
Allopathically, they will saythat's not true.
It only innervates above thediaphragm.
And I would say they're verywrong.
I've watched students move thecoffin bone with it.
And it will block that.
It will block the ability of,cause colic a lot of times.
Because that the regular dorsalvagal nerve is the prime
governor of the timing of theperistalsis of the intestines

(01:13:08):
and how they integrate and flowand dance with each other.
And it is a common problem withthat.
People will feel out of sorts.
A lot of.
brain dysfunction will be comingfrom that because you can't get
good flow through therephysiologically and you won't be
able to work on the interior ofthe cranium well if that joint's

(01:13:28):
like a gatekeeper and the sacrumneeds to be working with that
joint in that area if you wantto awaken the pineal gland To
awaken intuition or thepituitary and the hypothalamus,
which govern the endocrinesystem and and a lot more.
Those are often being physicallydistorted via that push off the

(01:13:51):
O.
A.
Joint.
So, yeah, the way joint is huge.
You get tired of hearing aboutit in classes, but it's a think
about where on our discussion.
Back up a minute and think aboutwhere does that joint lie in
terms of sacred anatomy.
It is a gatekeeper to the sixthand seventh chakra.

(01:14:13):
It sits right above the thyroid.
So you will find these horsesand these people with constant
OA problems have some sort of aninability to walk and speak and
perceive who, what they reallyare.
And what's really going on, youwill see that correlation over
and over and you can make thesame discussion all the way down

(01:14:35):
with these physical issues, whatthey end up really being, and
how to get them, they end upshowing that way, a lot of
first, second survival issues,tribal issues with pelvis.
No question.
Many people say that many fromthe UK have illuminated that and
published on that.
Carolyn Mace, the medicalintuitive over here in the

(01:14:57):
States, has a saying that Iquote all the time, and that is
your biography becomes yourbiology.
And when you begin to see thatand prove it and go, oh my god,
that's true you, you become onboard with it and run with it.
But the OA joint certainly is agatekeeper for these intuitive
downloads and your ability totalk to divinity.

Ronnie (01:15:18):
Thank you so much for your knowledge and your input
and thank you to everybodythat's joined us and engaged
with questions and commentsreally.
Thank you so much.
It's much appreciated.
Okay.

Tom (01:15:33):
It's a lot of good energy here.
The people joining.
Yeah, there's quite a lot ofpeople.
It's awesome.

Ronnie (01:15:39):
And one more.
Do you work with points on ahorse's head?
Okay.

Tom (01:15:44):
Yes, I do.
At different levels.
and for different energies, ifyou will.
The cranial sacral rhythm iscertainly one of the biggest
ones because wherever it'sdeficient, there is deficiency.
I utilize certain acupoints aswell.
Absolutely.
And or acupoint Kind of refitpoint combos like the upper lip,

(01:16:06):
for instance.
Well, that has in it the verythe TV 26 there, which is a
potent point for the governingvessel.
But you but grabbing or touchingand engaging the upper palate,
whether above the lip orunderneath is preferred.
It's touching cranial nerve onewhich is the olfactory nerve,

(01:16:28):
which goes right into the limbicbrain.
But it, for some reason is theinterface where the horse first
touches the world and taste theworld, if you will.
And so you can engage thefrequency of the horse there a
lot.
Yin Tang point.
I use that a ton.
If you want to just trysomething and you have an OA
problem, right in the softtissue between the occiput and

(01:16:50):
the atlas is a gallbladder 20.
That is a potent mover of thetissue between there.
It is a great point for movingand helping the OA joint.
So yeah, I use, so these areacupoints that I'll use.
Other points that are reflexpoints and then cranial sacral
rhythm.
Oh, absolutely.
Kind of I use the body as asymphony.

(01:17:13):
If it was one system, therefore,one modality would or one type
of approach would get and wasappropriate.
That's what I would do.
In reality, I go to it and say,what's most appropriate and most
effective, most efficient hereat this moment that the horse is
asking for that it needs.
And that may be blood.

(01:17:33):
It may be nerve.
It may be.
acupressure.
It may be myofascial release.
It may be trigger point.
And I do love moving bone.
Absolutely.
Love moving bone, but it's thesymphony aligning with the
horse's frequency.
That's what it's about.

Ronnie (01:17:50):
Thank you.
I hope that answers yourquestion.
I'm sure it has.
Yeah, brilliant.
Okay.
So I was going to go on tosomething else, but as you were
talking and I thought, do Ireally need to say this?
I'm going to say it.
It was a visual and what I wasbeing shown to say to you.
I don't know if your informationis going to come forward from

(01:18:11):
this, but it was a simple visualand you've got the horse there,
And the human, and you've gotthe hand and the finger pointing
to the head, top of the head,and to the tail and what they're
saying to me is, it's a pyramid.
There's a pyramid, and that'simportant.
I have an idea what it meanstoo, but I'm going to let you

(01:18:33):
see if you want to put anythingtowards that.

Tom (01:18:37):
Now the pyramid you're talking about, is that just on
the horse or between the horseand the human?

Ronnie (01:18:41):
Between the horse, so I'm stood here, horse is there,
sideways.
Okay.
Head, tail, and I can literallysee a pyramid and a heart.

Tom (01:18:53):
Ah, tell me about the heart.

Ronnie (01:18:55):
So we talked about the heart in the last time, yeah,
yeah.
The heart's consciousness cameforward.
So, the heart.
It's like a funnel.
So you've got your vortex ofenergy from your heart and it's
spinning.
But what the saying is, youdon't see that because it's fast
and then the whole of the horse.

(01:19:19):
Literally showing me a visual.
So is there something you wantto add to that?

Tom (01:19:25):
That is profound.
Actually, what that means to meis what I do with those types of
channels.
I mean, I know quite a bit aboutthat, but I still know that.
I'm, my sense is I need to godeeper and go evoke that and to
immerse myself deeper.
The cranial sacral aspect of thehorse.

(01:19:48):
These are two massive energycenters.
Okay.
They also, you know, and theywork together to to mobilize
each other.
So if the OA joints out thesacrums in, in Is in emergency
mode and vice versa.
And so it's the grounding, it'sall of that.
But you evoke,

Ronnie (01:20:08):
sorry, the spine is not just the spine.
It isn't just a physical, whichyou know, anyway, but there must
be something more coming throughthis because it's

Tom (01:20:17):
It's these deeper energies and you're evoking the
connection in a sacred geometricshape that that comes off of
you.
And if you notice, though, thecenter of this shape is between
you and the horse.
And, you know, it is perhaps atthe end of the day, all the

(01:20:37):
thousands of techniques that wedevelop come down to one simple
one like that that does it all.
And we don't always need to knoweverything and be honest with
you.
I I'm so I'm ready for thattechnique.
And I can glimpse it.
And I think this is part of itwhere you are just facilitating
the energy, the healing, and youdon't need to know all this

(01:20:58):
stuff sometimes, but I wouldencourage people to try that.
If you can reach the horse'ssacrament head, you can do it
energetically.
But the problem with horses,they're usually too long and
you'd have to be touching themwith your chest.
To be able to do that even ifyou can or you could I sometimes
I often put my hand under thehalter and pull them around To I

(01:21:20):
where I can get to the thesecond but when you do that,
you're distorting the energy alittle so, This cranial sacral
rhythm goes, is dysfunctional,but I would say evoke the Just
evoke it and see what happens.
That's the beauty of this is youdon't need to have to have gone
through all these classes.
You can try certain things thatyou're meant to do.
And everybody has their owngifts and style and input and

(01:21:44):
everybody like When they comethrough my classes, the first
thing I tell them is I am notcloning you.
I'm giving you techniques toenhance your benevolent Skill
set and I always get themfurther.
I get them they become they getthemselves further along when
they embrace themselves and gointo it and integrate my

(01:22:07):
technique to theirs and make ittheirs and This is one that I I
think I need to play with

Ronnie (01:22:14):
So somebody's just said it's a body's memory, which goes
with something else camethrough.
There was more that camethrough, but

Tom (01:22:22):
I think you're doing is illuminating.
The way energy wants tointerface in a way that's
probably more efficient in manyways.
And I know connecting heart toheart with the Equus.
I do you do a couple of podcastsjust on that and its

(01:22:42):
effectiveness in the 3D world.
But, the body definitely storeseverything, the memory of it.
Mm-Hmm.
And and in the heart memory thatforward is, and in the heart is
access to the AK record.
Yeah.
And so when, a lot of, manytimes when I, the body's
unwinding like even a, a, abone, if you evoke the bone to
go, not in a chiropractic highimpulse, high velocity at me,

(01:23:05):
but you're ready.
I've gotten, bone doesn't moveand now it's ready to move.
And I find out which way itdoesn't wanna move.
And then I.
Barely engage it.
It unwinds its way.
It got traumatized and reverseorder and then and it clunked in
and it's a huge memory.
It's, it's massive.
The osteopaths call it theintelligence of the inner

(01:23:27):
physician.

Ronnie (01:23:28):
I just got goosebumps then.
And my awareness is telling me.
I need to introduce you tosomebody, whether you match each
other or but it's interestingbecause this is what she's been
saying for a long time.
The horse that we see, is notactually how they are.
The physical, how we perceivethem with our eyes is not how

(01:23:51):
Enerjetially.
They are, they are quitedifferent.
And this is something to do withwhat they've just shown me
there.
But that's another podcast.
This has been great.
It's been so lovely having youback, Tom.
And as you were talking, evenme, sometimes if I'm listening
with my mind, not this, it'slike, Oh crikey I'm trying to

(01:24:13):
absorb this when I switch off Ican feel it.
I know that makes sense to you.
Yeah.
So if there's people that'sheard this conversation or seen
us talking and listen to Tom, ifyou're not sure about something,
please reach out and you cansend me a message or you can
contact Tom.
All his details are tagged tothis interview and he'll be more
than happy to get back to you.

(01:24:35):
If there's something specificfrom this interview that you'd
like more information on thenagain get, get in touch with
either Tom or myself.
Is there any parting words thatyou'd like to say before we say
goodbye?
Because it sounds quite a lot,it sounds intense and it sounds
very, you peel it back everysingle energetic molecule it's

(01:24:56):
all connected.
So that's how you can do whatyou do, that's how I can listen
to information that flowsthrough me.
I will only get the informationthat needs to land in my
doorway.
If it's not for me to pass on tosomebody else that's going to
link in with that.
I won't get it.
I don't need it.
So the information that flowsfrom anybody is relevant to you

(01:25:19):
and whoever you come in contactwith.
That's the beauty of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tom (01:25:25):
Speaking of that, what comes through, I had other
things I was going to probablypart with and what comes through
is you, you utilizing and askingwith your intuition, things that
are sincere to you.
Ask in a very strong intention,not the word demanding is a
little strong, but it's prettyclose.

(01:25:48):
Expect an answer.
And the words that I'm gettingare, who are you not to receive
that?
So we got to, what stopsintuition and, and our path many
times is we, we just flat outdon't believe and we don't.
But really, we don't think weare worthy.

(01:26:11):
Who are you not to is what, ifyou could be on the other side
looking down, they all say that.
Oh, no, no, you have no idea whoyou are.
Please stand and shine yourlight.
Who are you not to receiveprofound guidance and, and do
some profound things on horses?
And you don't need to go to aton of classes to do it.

(01:26:32):
It helps, but if you have theright intention, the right
frequency, you will do thingsthat will be outstanding because
you aligned with the real driverof disease and put things back
into vitality.
So yeah, who are you not tobelieve my parting words?

Ronnie (01:26:52):
Thank you, Tom.
We all have impostor syndromefrom time to time.
Mine's not so much now.
When I'm in it, I'm in it.
But when I'm more in the humanmode, then little voices come
in, you know, but that's normal.
If you'd like to just say aquick bye, I'm going to pop you
out.
And if you don't mind justhanging on a little while and
we'll have a little chat afterif that's okay.

Tom (01:27:11):
You bet.
Take care.

Ronnie (01:27:15):
Wow.
What an amazing guy and And he'sso open to conversations that
some people maybe shy away fromor a bit scared to ask
questions.
You should never be scared toask questions and never be
scared to listen to yourintuition because that's.
The most important thing,listening to your own guidance.
And that's what horses want usto do.

(01:27:36):
They want us to be aware of ourown true being as Tom said and
understand our own power andthat's not power, ego power,
it's our own power tounderstand, to know, and to move
with that, move forward withthat.
And you don't have to know allthe answers.
You don't have to be an expert.
All horses, any animal just wantyou to be authentic.

(01:28:00):
If you're scared, Acknowledgethat.
If you don't know, acknowledgethat.
Don't pretend to be something.
It's funny, I have clients thatare teachers, writing
instructors, and the biggestthing they have to get over is
feeling vulnerable.
And I say, if you show a studentthat actually you might not know

(01:28:21):
the answer, or you have thosemoments of not knowing what to
do and being anxious, they willrespect you more because That's
how they feel, it's about beingauthentic.
Nobody's perfect and 100 percentall of the time.
Okay, get off my soapbox.
I hope you've enjoyed thisconversation.
It was steep, even for me attimes.

(01:28:42):
It's not that I do notunderstand it.
I was just hoping that themessage was coming across to the
listeners, to the viewers,because that's important,
because that's why we do thingslike this.
Once again, thank you forjoining us.
It's important because if itwasn't for you, I wouldn't be
doing these podcasts.
If you've got nobody listeningor want to know, then, you know,
that's why you do it at the day.

(01:29:04):
Take care and remember, if youwant to get in touch with Tom,
please do so, or myself, butuntil the next time, take care
and bye for now.

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Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies (Part 2)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Interview with Tom Mayes - Integrated Equine Therapies (Part 2)