September 30, 2024 • 33 mins
In this episode, we chat with Dr. Omotola K. Ajibade about tackling common "Myths About Mental Illness" that persist in many African communities. These misconceptions often prevent individuals from seeking the help they need. Join us as we debunk these myths and emphasize the importance of seeking culturally and spiritually competent care. We hope you enjoy the episode!
- Mental Illness is for White People
- Mental Illness means you've been cursed or possess
- All You Need is Prayer
- Speaking about Mental Illness will make it real
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to Equip to Prosper, thepodcast where we inspire and
promote mental health in theAfrican community so that you
can prosper in health.
Together, we're going to learnthat our cultural and spiritual
health are just as important asour mental health.
And our emotional health, wechat with African mental health
professionals, business owners,and expert in the African
(00:25):
community to give you theresources needed to shift the
way you view mental health andtherapy.
I am your host, Comfort YuswaWiafe.
I am a therapist and the founderof Equip to Prosper.
Let's talk together.
Let's heal together.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (00:44):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof equipped to prosper.
I am comfort.
And today we're talking to Dr.
Omotola Ajebade.
He's a psychiatrist and we'regoing to be learning about him.
And psychiatry and our mentalhealth in the African community.
So we're going to learn a littlebit about who he is Dr.
(01:04):
Ajay Bade is a board certifiedgeneral and adult psychiatrist
working in Georgia correctionalsystem.
He has a neglected background inclinical research.
public health and advocacy.
Having recently completed hisfellowship in forensic
psychiatry, he hopes to use hismany skills to continue
conducting forensic evaluationand working in crisis
(01:27):
intervention in the criminaljustice reform issues.
I start off his clinical work.
Dr.
Ajebade is an avid photographer.
How are you doing, Dr.
Ajebade?
Welcome.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (01:39):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (01:42):
Thank you for being here today.
How did you get intophotography?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (01:46):
I didn't set out to be a
photographer.
Like over I got my first camerawhen I was a kid.
I remember it was a little blueFisher Price perfect shot.
I went years later, I went andhunted down the camera.
I don't have a, I don't have aphysical one, but one, one of
these days I'm going to get one.
But anyway, I've tinkered aroundwith cameras off and on for all
(02:08):
of my life.
But when I was in medicalschool, I needed a way to stay
sane.
And I couldn't like, I used tobe very big into writing songs
and recording and performing.
And I couldn't do that anymore.
It's really hard to do that inpast medical school.
I got into photography just as acreative outlet.
(02:31):
And then, as time went on,people started asking, How much
do you charge?
And enough people ask, and thenyou have to actually have an
answer.
So that's basically how I gotinto it.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (02:43):
So it was something you picked up
early on in life and really keptyou seen during school, graduate
school and all of that.
And now you've turned it intosomething where you are helping
other.
squadcaster-be62_1 (02:54):
Photography, especially like portrait work,
is really about showing someoneoff in the best possible light.
Sometimes literally
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (03:03):
yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (03:04):
Some ways it's not that different
than psychiatry.
I think, honestly, I think beinga photographer made me a better
psychiatrist.
Because you're essentiallycollecting somebody's story and
distilling it down to it's mostsalient parts.
And then trying to help thatperson craft that image of
(03:25):
themselves into into a moreideal form for themselves.
You can't impose your own ideasonto the person or try not to,
but you want the person to comeaway from the process feeling
like feeling like you really sawthem.
I think just as greatphotographers really capture the
(03:48):
essence of a person, a greatpsychiatrist will really get to
understand their patient andthen work towards helping that
patient get to their core goal.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (04:00):
What a powerful connection.
So I have, I've met a lot ofpsychiatrists and I'm always
intrigued because it's differentlevel of specialty in our field.
So what about psychiatry thatkind of drew you to it?
Or you had a pull towardspsychiatry?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (04:17):
I didn't want to be a
psychiatrist, actually.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15 (04:21):
Really?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (04:22):
I came into psychiatry kicking and
screaming.
When I started, when I had thelofty idea of becoming a doctor,
I wanted to be an ER doc.
And, but don't get me wrong, I'mactually very happy to be a
psychiatrist.
I think, Everything I everwanted in life that I thought
being an ER doc was gonna giveme, psychiatry has given me and
(04:43):
then some.
So it's not it's not woe is meor anything like that.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (04:47):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (04:49):
but when I was in med school my
friends all did their psychiatryrotation before me and they
would come back and say, Hey, Ithink you would really like
psychiatry.
And I kept saying no.
And then the social worker ofthe unit, he didn't really care
for med students that much, buthe pulled me aside one day and
was like, I think you should,you, you really have a knack for
(05:12):
this.
So I still said no.
So I finished med school, andactually when I finished I
didn't have a residency in hand,but I was, and I was struggling
to figure myself out.
But in that process, one of myfriends, sent me a text message,
and basically stating that shewas thinking about ending her
(05:35):
life.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (05:36):
Ooh.
squadcaster-be62_1_0 (05:37):
Recognize, cause she had changed numbers
apparently.
And Like that whole process mademe really sit down and reassess
my life and decide that this issomething I really need to do
But yeah, like I didn't set outto be a psychiatrist if you had
asked me If you had asked melike 20 years ago what I wanted
(05:59):
to be when I grew up andpsychiatry was at the bottom of
the list Like,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (06:06):
show up for this person, but this
person is also part of yourstory, right?
They had a very difficult lifeexperience.
When anyone get close to thatpoint of wanting to end their
life, we know the difficultythat person is going through to
even consider that.
And here, this person is callingyou and that's part of your
journey as a psychiatrist.
(06:28):
So today we're talking aboutmyths about mental illness, so
the first one is, we tend tohear that mental illness is for
white people.
So can you speak to that alittle bit?
What's that myth?
How do we dispel that as apsychiatrist?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (06:42):
Please, I beg my Africans if
fundamentally if we all believethat life, human life, as we
know it today, started inAfrica, then mental illness also
started in Africa, Two go handin hand.
You can't hold one and not theother.
When you think about what mentalillness is especially for a lot
(07:05):
of diseases, it can be verycomplex.
Infections can cause certainmental illnesses, or at least,
In someone developing a mentalillness.
Substance use, all of thesegenetics play a huge role.
And the issues that are at workwhen someone has a mental
illness issues that are honestlyvery critical to human survival.
(07:29):
If you're depressed and you'resad, you are, you're letting
your community know that youneed help.
I think of psychotic disordersas the most extreme and abnormal
end of what the humanimagination is capable of.
Because to, dream up things thathave never been done takes a
(07:50):
level of imagination.
But when you think about someonegoing through a psychotic
illness, where they havedelusions, they start to believe
in their core that certainthings are true, despite all
evidence to the contrary,despite, any rational
connection.
That's a very extreme end ofsomething that was very powerful
(08:11):
and very important for ourdevelopment as humans.
That all life started in Africa,then mental illness is
definitely not just for whitepeople.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (08:20):
You just explained this in a
different light for me.
That when someone have apsychotic episode or they're
going through A level ofpsychosis or the on the far end
of life is the ability thattheir imagination is able to
take them there, but more so ifwe're going to focus on mental
(08:44):
health, talk about mentalhealth, we need to understand
that if life started in Africa,mental health started in Africa.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (08:51):
yeah, mental illness started in
Africa.
There's there are no two waysabout it.
If we think about all of us thatgrew up, we knew, we saw the
madman walking down the streetand it's unfortunate that we
call them the madman becausemore than likely that person had
a mental health issue that hasgone unaddressed, right?
(09:13):
that guy certainly wasn't livingin Europe.
comfort_1_08-25-202 (09:15):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I think that's even toexperiences growing up in our
neighborhood in Ghana, therewere a couple people that
looking back now, they wereautistic children but it's the
idea that sometime we like toput things on another race or
another group of people.
So the second myth is thatmental illness means you have
(09:38):
been cursed.
Or you are possessed.
Please enlighten us about thatone.
I see you're laughing.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25 (09:44):
Mental illness is partly genetic.
When you look at the studies area great way to study anything
that you think may have agenetic cause.
But if you compare rates ofmental illness among identical
twins you find, I think forSchizophrenia, it's something
(10:04):
like there's a 47 percent chancethat if one twin develops
Schizophrenia, the other twin isgoing to develop it, right?
And that's for that tells youthat it's not like perfectly
genetic, but that is a stronggenetic correlation.
The odds of you developing amental illness go way up if you
already have a first degreefamily member.
(10:27):
That is, mother, father,brother, sister, who has a
mental illness.
The odds of you developing asimilar mental illness, or
sometimes a different one, goway up.
Something like Autism SpectrumDisorder that like days, what
you find is that one person getsdiagnosed as autistic and then
(10:47):
the rest of the family startsreevaluating their whole lives.
And they're like, Ooh, yeah.
Maybe I was autistic and I justdidn't know it before.
Idea that these things are theresult of demon possession, or
that you've been cursed in somekind of way, that the village
people are involved, as theysay.
(11:08):
The village people are onlyinvolved in so far as they may
be genetically related to youand contributed to your DNA.
But that's about the extent ofit.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (11:18):
Yeah.
So for someone out there who'sthinking I probably have this
because of my genetics.
What do you say to that?
Because we know that it'spartly, and we're not saying
that every single person, theirmental illness is connected to
genetics.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (11:34):
A lot of mental illnesses are very
multifactorial.
And in my opinion, schizophreniais like the hallmark of thinking
about mental illness from amultifactorial perspective.
If your mother was pregnant withyou, if your mother caught the
flu when she was pregnant withyou, your odds of developing
schizophrenia go up.
(11:55):
Chronic substance use especiallyweed all of you that are out
there smoking weed these daysThe weed that's out there is too
strong.
Oh, let me tell you now theDanish studies and these those
Scandinavians They love theirrecords man When you look
through the studies that thechurch genealogical records of
who developed what illness, andyou track it by family these
(12:19):
days the data is showing thatfolks who were not at risk for
mental for psychotic disorders,major mood disorders like, like
bipolar disorder now with heavysubstance use, especially like
with heavy cannabis use inparticular, but other substances
have their own problems.
But because cannabis isincreasingly getting legalized
(12:41):
in the U S and around the world,people think that it's perfectly
safe, I just want to caution.
Like I'm not here to killanybody's vibe, but I'm here to
add just a little bit ofcaution, substance use can be
part of it and infection can bepart of it like toxoplasmosis
has been linked to Schizophrenialike syndromes forever.
(13:02):
And even sometimes the causecould be unknown.
Sometimes when you sit down andthink about what people in what
you've experienced in light ofyour own mental health issues,
and then you start to evaluateyou start to evaluate your lived
experience with certain familymembers, certain patterns can
emerge.
I know for instance, dementiatends to be a common thing as
(13:25):
you get older, you watch yourgrandparents go through
dementia, you may even watch aparent go through dementia.
Already know that's a risk thatyou inherently carry.
But take you to with all ofpsychiatry, psychology, and
people who work professionallyin the mental health space, we
take the totality of the personinto consideration.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (13:45):
Yeah.
And every single part of them.
And I think that's why it's hardwhen people want to know what
caused this mental illness?
Is there one thing?
Mental illness is not caused byone thing.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (13:55):
Yeah.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (13:56):
Is multifaceted different things
that could have triggered thisperson to be experiencing what
the experience and sometimes toreally understand that this is
where that level of evaluationthat assessment is thorough.
We're looking at the wholeperson and not just 1 aspect of
the person.
So the third myth is that allyou need is prayer.
(14:17):
All we need as Africans whenwe're dealing with a mental
illness is prayer.
Please tell us a little moreabout that.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (14:23):
This one I've experienced personally.
When I was in med school, I was,went through like a phase of
depression in med school.
The point of needing medication,but I was really struggling with
getting burnt out.
And I started reading my bible.
The way they always tell you todo sunday.
And it didn't actually I learneda lot about religion and
(14:46):
theology, but it didn't help theway I was feeling.
It didn't help the things I wasstruggling with.
For some people it genuinelydoes, but not for everybody.
And you truly believe, if youtruly believe in a spiritual
system where there is anomniscient and all powerful God,
then you also have to believethat God has placed people in
(15:10):
your life with the skills tohelp you deal with the things
you're dealing with.
The idea that you alone shouldstruggle and pray through this
by yourself or that prayer alonecan solve it is to me ludicrous.
It's not to get super spiritual,cause I'm actually, these days
(15:30):
I'm actually not that religious,but the old, the verse goes one
shall chase a thousand, twoshall chase ten thousand, iron
sharpens iron, like, all ofthese are, like, things you need
help.
Can't do it just by yourself.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (15:44):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (15:45):
The idea that you just praying by
yourself will solve your issues,maybe it does for some people,
but not for everybody.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (15:52):
It's amazing that we think that we
can do every single thing thatwe need to manifest every single
thing that we need to experiencethat God is just going to drop
it on our laps.
If I think about Oh, I have tocook a meal.
Is God going to come down andcook that meal for me?
If I'm like, you know what?
I need to get myself from hereto maybe Georgia, but God is
(16:13):
going to just fly me there.
There are steps that I have totake.
There are actionable things thatI have to do myself.
Why praying?
And I think there's so muchpower to what you said.
If we think that God ispowerful, what is going to limit
him from having someone get intopsychiatry?
What is going to limit him fromhaving someone get into
psychology?
(16:34):
And I usually say that God hasallowed everything that's on
this planet that we see.
It was either created by God orhe has given someone the vision
to create it.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (16:44):
Yeah, exactly.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (16:45):
And sometime it can be really
frustrating when you see someoneis suffering with a mental
illness that is debilitated andall they want to do is pray.
And I'm always like, can we prayand seek the actual medical
mental health care?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (17:01):
The hardest ones, in my opinion, are
the folks who have religiouslybased delusions.
Because one, like, all ofpsychiatry really hinges on, it
hinges on understanding theperson's context so that you can
help treat them.
It's if you, I don't know ifyou've ever seen the movie Patch
Adams.
Robin Williams plays this doctorwho also a professional clown,
(17:25):
interestingly enough.
But there's this at the climaxof the movie, Robin Williams
says this line You treat apatient, you win, you lose.
But if you treat a person, youalways win.
With when you're thinking in thecontext of like how religion
interplays with mental healthissues.
Sometimes, especially withpsychotic disorders, some people
(17:46):
develop really bizarre thoughtsabout, spirituality and religion
and that is, that sometimes ispart of their illness and it's
hard to disentangle that.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (17:58):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (17:59):
More prayer is probably not the thing
they need.
And that's not to say that they,that's not to say that they
shouldn't be praying orshouldn't engage in some sort of
spiritual practice, but they'veso far in one direction that you
really have to bring them back.
And then try to help them gaingain a tether back to this side
(18:22):
of reality.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (18:24):
Yeah.
And so for the person who's outthere who said, I know I need to
seek psychiatric help.
I know I need to meet withsomeone like Dr.
Ajay Bhaddeh.
But I also want to have prayerpart of that.
What does that look like forsomeone who's saying, I do know
for sure.
I need psychiatric help.
My loved one needs psychiatrichelp, but we also want to keep
(18:46):
our faith, spiritual aspect apart of that.
What does that look like in thepsychiatry world?
squadcaster-be62_ (18:52):
Fundamentally people who are actively engaged
in a faith life of any kind, aspiritual life of any kind, have
better mental health outcomes.
So this is not me denigratingreligion in any sort of way.
But, There are some things thatyour psychiatrist can do, there
are some things that your pastorcan do.
Sometimes there's overlapbetween those things, but not
(19:14):
all the time.
And, for that matter there are,like, there are plenty of
psychiatrists who areChristians, who are like, or
Muslim, or, and who are reallydevout in their spiritual
practice.
I think one of the, one of thebest parts about psychiatry is
that it I think more so than anyother field of medicine.
(19:34):
It gives you permission to showup as your whole self.
If you're with a psychiatristwho, for whom you want
discussions about faith andspirituality to be part of it,
and they're not jiving withthat, maybe find a different
psychiatrist.
And and they may for instance,like I said earlier, I'm not
like, not religious really but Iunderstand the value that it
(19:58):
holds in people's lives and Iengage with them actively on
those topics.
I study different kinds ofreligions.
Because one day, you're going tomeet a patient who you have to
be able to decide very quicklywhether or not What they're
experiencing or describing isthe result of maybe some kind of
religious trauma, some kind ofmental health issue, like a
(20:20):
psychotic disorder, or if that'sjust them and they just have
like particularly unique ideas.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:26):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (20:27):
And without doing that work, you're
not going to figure it out.
But that being said definitelyengage in a religious practice
of some kind.
I think.
For most people it tends to behelpful.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:41):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (20:42):
and certainly not for everybody.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:44):
Yeah.
And I think to your point,there's power in that known as
psychiatrist is there and playsa role.
Your spiritual leader is thereand play a role and you're there
yourself to play a role.
And I think that's the mostimportant person.
The person who's seeking thehelp is the most important
person.
So not trying to downplay what apsychiatrist is doing, not
(21:05):
trying to downplay what yourspiritual leader is doing, and
also not trying to downplay whatyou can do when you're seeking
help and when you're seekingtreatment.
So the fourth myth that you havecome across is speaking about
mental illness will make itreal.
So the idea that when we're justtalking about it, when we're
saying things, we have theability to manifest it in our
(21:26):
lives.
So tell us about that.
Yes,
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (21:30):
for all sorts of things, but
pretending the wind isn't realjust because you didn't see it
is dumb.
Africa we have this idea that ifyou say something it's going to
become suddenly real as if itwasn't real before, right?
And just because you haven'tsaid it doesn't mean it isn't
(21:55):
there.
Just because there's darknessdoesn't mean light doesn't
exist.
I think that's one of the thingsthat has actually held our
cultures back a lot in manyaspects.
Sometimes we just fundamentallyrefuse to tell each other the
truth.
And because we don't say it, wethink the problem isn't there.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (22:17):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (22:17):
That part I will forever struggle
with.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (22:20):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (22:22):
because it delays people from getting
whatever kind of help they need.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (22:25):
And I think it has, like you said,
it's to your words, it set usback, but I feel like it has
crippled us in some way that wethink that all negative things
that we say or everythingnegative that we say is going to
manifest but what are thepositive things that we're
speaking over ourselves, overour country, over the continent?
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (22:44):
Yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (22:44):
Is it
squadcaster-be62_1_08- (22:45):
exactly,
comfort_1_08-25-20 (22:46):
manifesting?
And so when we're looking at oneperspective, we're saying all
things negative that come out ofyour mouth is going to ruin you
and is going to destroy you.
Okay, the other perspective, allthings positive that you're
speaking over your life.
How is that playing out?
And I think to Your point, thereality of being able to look at
both here, some things we haveto be mindful.
(23:07):
We don't want to speak out therebecause we know that there are
instances in which we can speaksomething over ourself and it
can go into a different space.
That is true, but it can't beevery single thing.
And I think that is a myth toyour point that has kept us
stuck behind and not moving.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (23:27):
yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (23:28):
I say this all the time as
Africans were so powerful and soresilient.
And then on the flip side iswhat is going on?
And to your point, that's thefourth myth.
squadcaster-be62_1_0 (23:40):
resilience is a double edged sword,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (23:43):
It is.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (23:43):
because it is a, it is often a response
to the system looks like youbuild your sense of resilience
as a response to the system thatyou're in.
It's not because peopleinherently want to be resilient.
To some extent, yeah, you shouldwant to be resilient.
(24:05):
But it's always a, but it'salways a response to a
situation.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (24:10):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (24:11):
And if that situation didn't exist,
you wouldn't have a need to beresilient.
And In the name of persistingand being resilient, we refuse
to tell ourselves the truth.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (24:22):
Yeah, so those are the four myths that
you have come across that you'veheard sometime you've seen.
And number one is mentalillnesses for white people.
Number two is mental illnessmeans you have been cursed or
possessed.
Number three, all you need isprayer.
Number four, speaking aboutmental illness will make it
(24:45):
real.
When it comes to what you haveexperienced your length of time
in the field, what is one thingas it relates to myth about
mental illness that you wantAfricans to hear today and take
away from this today?
squadcaster-be62_ (25:02):
Fundamentally get help in my group chats with
Nigerian friends, in my groupchats with my siblings, we all
joke about how our parents needtherapy.
Do not perpetuate thestereotype.
Get help.
comfort_1_08-25-202 (25:19):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (25:22):
Yeah.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (25:23):
So I love that being able to know
that your mental health isfundamental.
Getting help.
There's nothing wrong with that.
So you are gonna be opening somedoors soon to Ajay Bhaddeh
Consulting Group.
Tell us a little bit about thatso people will be able to know
when that's open and where theycan find you.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (25:45):
Yeah so Like we discussed earlier, I
just finished my fellowship inForensic Psychiatry and no one
ever knows what forensics is,but if you think about it as a
simple equation, mental healthissue plus legal question equals
forensics.
So currently I work in thecorrectional system, so I'm
(26:05):
treating, I'm the treatingpsychiatrist at one jail on soon
to be other jails but one of thethings that they train you to do
in forensics is to doevaluations.
Sometimes these evaluations takethe form of like threat
assessment.
Sometimes these evaluations mostof the time, especially while
(26:27):
you're in training, these arecourt ordered evaluations.
And so it can be can range fromcompetency to stand trial,
criminal responsibility, meaningcan this person take an insanity
defense, that type of thingfitness for duty evaluations
some other evaluations thataren't necessarily court
ordered, fitness for dutyevaluations Asylum evaluations,
(26:51):
immigration cases, parentalfitness evaluations.
Basically if there's some waythat a mental health issue
intersects with the law aforensic psychiatrist is trained
to do it.
And so one of the things I'mlooking forward to in the coming
months is putting the finishingtouches on hanging up my shingle
(27:11):
and building a forensicconsulting practice.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (27:15):
Which is so needed.
So needed.
That's amazing.
What is the
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (27:21):
you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151 (27:22):
advice you've ever received as it
relates to being an African inthis field?
Thank you.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (27:28):
As it relates to being an African
in the field don't think it wasadvice that I received.
It's just like a lesson thatI've learned over time that like
for those of us who areoperating from the professional
side of things there is alwaysgoing to be at least one patient
over the course of your careerwho needs the exact kind of
(27:52):
training, skill set, and lifeexperience you have come through
to get to where you are.
And so that's why I alwaysadvocate, especially if you're a
psychiatrist, psychologist,therapist, if you're working in
mental health, show up as yourwhole self.
Someone who you are going tointeract with needs you to be
(28:15):
your whole self because theywill see a version of themselves
in you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (28:20):
Wow.
I've never heard it put the wayyou just explained it, that all
of your experience, one personneeds that.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (28:29):
Yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (28:30):
And if there's one person times that
by two times that by four timesthat by 10.
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (28:37):
The weirdest part about this job is
that you will become a corememory for somebody.
Just for existing.
And you don't really realizethat.
I didn't realize how much of animpact I had on this one kid's
life until I treated him as anintern.
And then I think it was aroundthe time that I that might have
been the night before I hoppedon a plane to go to Nigeria to
(28:59):
propose to my wife.
And then him like, I, like heremembered this.
I didn't, he was like I treatedhim as an intern, got on a
plane, left the country, yearsgo by.
Four four years later, he's backon the inpatient unit when I was
in residency.
And there was something thatwas, like, oddly familiar about
the guy.
(29:19):
I just couldn't put my finger onit.
then a day before he's gettingdischarged again, he was like, I
remember you.
And then he starts reminding meof the conversation that we had
four years ago.
And he was like, it really itreally stuck with him.
It made him feel like he couldget through what he was going
through at the time.
For
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (29:38):
Wow.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (29:40):
so just for existing, you will be a
core memory in someone's life.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (29:44):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (29:45):
So why would you not show up as
your whole self?
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (29:49):
Yeah.
We're a core memory to them.
How wonderful is that?
What comes to mind when you hearadvancing mental health in the
African community?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (30:00):
I think there's a long way to go.
Some of it is that we're stuckin the past.
For better and for worse.
There have been like tremendousinnovators in mental health
across Africa for likegenerations.
I know in Nigeria, like there'sa psychiatrist named T.
A.
Lambo who was, he was a pioneerin thinking about ways to treat
(30:24):
people with mental healthissues.
There are, like, different wavesof deinstitutionalization and
how it's affected differentparts of the world.
There was a guy that spoke atthe American Psychiatric
Association a few years back.
he talked about thisorganization that he was
developing.
I can never remember his name,but I remember that he's from
(30:46):
one of the francophone Africancountries.
But he talked about theexperience of helping people,
because in many parts of Africa,people with, mental health
issues, they just get chained upand left in the middle of the
street.
And this guy made it his life'smission his daughter eventually
(31:07):
became a psychiatrist, but hemade it his life's mission to go
out and take care of people.
And these people would get wellenough that some of them
eventually became nurses, andthey were helping to take care
of other people who were in thesame position that they were
once upon a time.
I think, like I think there is atremendous opportunity for
(31:29):
thinking through how we do thedelivery of mental health care
in Africa through models likethat.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (31:37):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (31:38):
Like peer support is something that's
very big here in the UnitedStates.
What he's doing is like theultimate end of like peer
support, where you go frombeing, where you're not just
talking to someone, you'reactually treating the person.
Think there's a role for that,especially in Africa, because
there's just not enoughresources.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:00):
It was very limited and lacking for
many reasons.
What do you want people to takeaway?
When they've listened to thispodcast
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25 (32:08):
you're not alone there have been, there
are currently 8 point somethingbillion people on the planet,
and there have been how manybillions more that have existed
over the course of humanity.
Someone else has gone throughwhat you're going through,
you're not alone.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:25):
Dr.
Omotola Ajebade, thank you somuch.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (32:29):
Thank you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:30):
All right, everyone.
See you on the next episode.
Thank you for listening.
We hope to see you on the nextepisode.
This is Equipped to Prosper.
The podcast.
Visit equipped to prosper.com,the find an African mentor
(32:52):
provider therapy assistance, andstill much more.
Remember that you are equippedto prosper.
Welcome to Equip to Prosper, thepodcast where we inspire and
promote mental health in theAfrican community so that you
can prosper in health.
Together, we're going to learnthat our cultural and spiritual
health are just as important asour mental health.
And our emotional health, wechat with African mental health
professionals, business owners,and expert in the African
(00:25):
community to give you theresources needed to shift the
way you view mental health andtherapy.
I am your host, Comfort YuswaWiafe.
I am a therapist and the founderof Equip to Prosper.
Let's talk together.
Let's heal together.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (00:44):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof equipped to prosper.
I am comfort.
And today we're talking to Dr.
Omotola Ajebade.
He's a psychiatrist and we'regoing to be learning about him.
And psychiatry and our mentalhealth in the African community.
So we're going to learn a littlebit about who he is Dr.
(01:04):
Ajay Bade is a board certifiedgeneral and adult psychiatrist
working in Georgia correctionalsystem.
He has a neglected background inclinical research.
public health and advocacy.
Having recently completed hisfellowship in forensic
psychiatry, he hopes to use hismany skills to continue
conducting forensic evaluationand working in crisis
(01:27):
intervention in the criminaljustice reform issues.
I start off his clinical work.
Dr.
Ajebade is an avid photographer.
How are you doing, Dr.
Ajebade?
Welcome.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (01:39):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (01:42):
Thank you for being here today.
How did you get intophotography?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (01:46):
I didn't set out to be a
photographer.
Like over I got my first camerawhen I was a kid.
I remember it was a little blueFisher Price perfect shot.
I went years later, I went andhunted down the camera.
I don't have a, I don't have aphysical one, but one, one of
these days I'm going to get one.
But anyway, I've tinkered aroundwith cameras off and on for all
(02:08):
of my life.
But when I was in medicalschool, I needed a way to stay
sane.
And I couldn't like, I used tobe very big into writing songs
and recording and performing.
And I couldn't do that anymore.
It's really hard to do that inpast medical school.
I got into photography just as acreative outlet.
(02:31):
And then, as time went on,people started asking, How much
do you charge?
And enough people ask, and thenyou have to actually have an
answer.
So that's basically how I gotinto it.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (02:43):
So it was something you picked up
early on in life and really keptyou seen during school, graduate
school and all of that.
And now you've turned it intosomething where you are helping
other.
squadcaster-be62_1 (02:54):
Photography, especially like portrait work,
is really about showing someoneoff in the best possible light.
Sometimes literally
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (03:03):
yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (03:04):
Some ways it's not that different
than psychiatry.
I think, honestly, I think beinga photographer made me a better
psychiatrist.
Because you're essentiallycollecting somebody's story and
distilling it down to it's mostsalient parts.
And then trying to help thatperson craft that image of
(03:25):
themselves into into a moreideal form for themselves.
You can't impose your own ideasonto the person or try not to,
but you want the person to comeaway from the process feeling
like feeling like you really sawthem.
I think just as greatphotographers really capture the
(03:48):
essence of a person, a greatpsychiatrist will really get to
understand their patient andthen work towards helping that
patient get to their core goal.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (04:00):
What a powerful connection.
So I have, I've met a lot ofpsychiatrists and I'm always
intrigued because it's differentlevel of specialty in our field.
So what about psychiatry thatkind of drew you to it?
Or you had a pull towardspsychiatry?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (04:17):
I didn't want to be a
psychiatrist, actually.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15 (04:21):
Really?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (04:22):
I came into psychiatry kicking and
screaming.
When I started, when I had thelofty idea of becoming a doctor,
I wanted to be an ER doc.
And, but don't get me wrong, I'mactually very happy to be a
psychiatrist.
I think, Everything I everwanted in life that I thought
being an ER doc was gonna giveme, psychiatry has given me and
(04:43):
then some.
So it's not it's not woe is meor anything like that.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (04:47):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (04:49):
but when I was in med school my
friends all did their psychiatryrotation before me and they
would come back and say, Hey, Ithink you would really like
psychiatry.
And I kept saying no.
And then the social worker ofthe unit, he didn't really care
for med students that much, buthe pulled me aside one day and
was like, I think you should,you, you really have a knack for
(05:12):
this.
So I still said no.
So I finished med school, andactually when I finished I
didn't have a residency in hand,but I was, and I was struggling
to figure myself out.
But in that process, one of myfriends, sent me a text message,
and basically stating that shewas thinking about ending her
(05:35):
life.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (05:36):
Ooh.
squadcaster-be62_1_0 (05:37):
Recognize, cause she had changed numbers
apparently.
And Like that whole process mademe really sit down and reassess
my life and decide that this issomething I really need to do
But yeah, like I didn't set outto be a psychiatrist if you had
asked me If you had asked melike 20 years ago what I wanted
(05:59):
to be when I grew up andpsychiatry was at the bottom of
the list Like,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (06:06):
show up for this person, but this
person is also part of yourstory, right?
They had a very difficult lifeexperience.
When anyone get close to thatpoint of wanting to end their
life, we know the difficultythat person is going through to
even consider that.
And here, this person is callingyou and that's part of your
journey as a psychiatrist.
(06:28):
So today we're talking aboutmyths about mental illness, so
the first one is, we tend tohear that mental illness is for
white people.
So can you speak to that alittle bit?
What's that myth?
How do we dispel that as apsychiatrist?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (06:42):
Please, I beg my Africans if
fundamentally if we all believethat life, human life, as we
know it today, started inAfrica, then mental illness also
started in Africa, Two go handin hand.
You can't hold one and not theother.
When you think about what mentalillness is especially for a lot
(07:05):
of diseases, it can be verycomplex.
Infections can cause certainmental illnesses, or at least,
In someone developing a mentalillness.
Substance use, all of thesegenetics play a huge role.
And the issues that are at workwhen someone has a mental
illness issues that are honestlyvery critical to human survival.
(07:29):
If you're depressed and you'resad, you are, you're letting
your community know that youneed help.
I think of psychotic disordersas the most extreme and abnormal
end of what the humanimagination is capable of.
Because to, dream up things thathave never been done takes a
(07:50):
level of imagination.
But when you think about someonegoing through a psychotic
illness, where they havedelusions, they start to believe
in their core that certainthings are true, despite all
evidence to the contrary,despite, any rational
connection.
That's a very extreme end ofsomething that was very powerful
(08:11):
and very important for ourdevelopment as humans.
That all life started in Africa,then mental illness is
definitely not just for whitepeople.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (08:20):
You just explained this in a
different light for me.
That when someone have apsychotic episode or they're
going through A level ofpsychosis or the on the far end
of life is the ability thattheir imagination is able to
take them there, but more so ifwe're going to focus on mental
(08:44):
health, talk about mentalhealth, we need to understand
that if life started in Africa,mental health started in Africa.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (08:51):
yeah, mental illness started in
Africa.
There's there are no two waysabout it.
If we think about all of us thatgrew up, we knew, we saw the
madman walking down the streetand it's unfortunate that we
call them the madman becausemore than likely that person had
a mental health issue that hasgone unaddressed, right?
(09:13):
that guy certainly wasn't livingin Europe.
comfort_1_08-25-202 (09:15):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I think that's even toexperiences growing up in our
neighborhood in Ghana, therewere a couple people that
looking back now, they wereautistic children but it's the
idea that sometime we like toput things on another race or
another group of people.
So the second myth is thatmental illness means you have
(09:38):
been cursed.
Or you are possessed.
Please enlighten us about thatone.
I see you're laughing.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25 (09:44):
Mental illness is partly genetic.
When you look at the studies area great way to study anything
that you think may have agenetic cause.
But if you compare rates ofmental illness among identical
twins you find, I think forSchizophrenia, it's something
(10:04):
like there's a 47 percent chancethat if one twin develops
Schizophrenia, the other twin isgoing to develop it, right?
And that's for that tells youthat it's not like perfectly
genetic, but that is a stronggenetic correlation.
The odds of you developing amental illness go way up if you
already have a first degreefamily member.
(10:27):
That is, mother, father,brother, sister, who has a
mental illness.
The odds of you developing asimilar mental illness, or
sometimes a different one, goway up.
Something like Autism SpectrumDisorder that like days, what
you find is that one person getsdiagnosed as autistic and then
(10:47):
the rest of the family startsreevaluating their whole lives.
And they're like, Ooh, yeah.
Maybe I was autistic and I justdidn't know it before.
Idea that these things are theresult of demon possession, or
that you've been cursed in somekind of way, that the village
people are involved, as theysay.
(11:08):
The village people are onlyinvolved in so far as they may
be genetically related to youand contributed to your DNA.
But that's about the extent ofit.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (11:18):
Yeah.
So for someone out there who'sthinking I probably have this
because of my genetics.
What do you say to that?
Because we know that it'spartly, and we're not saying
that every single person, theirmental illness is connected to
genetics.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (11:34):
A lot of mental illnesses are very
multifactorial.
And in my opinion, schizophreniais like the hallmark of thinking
about mental illness from amultifactorial perspective.
If your mother was pregnant withyou, if your mother caught the
flu when she was pregnant withyou, your odds of developing
schizophrenia go up.
(11:55):
Chronic substance use especiallyweed all of you that are out
there smoking weed these daysThe weed that's out there is too
strong.
Oh, let me tell you now theDanish studies and these those
Scandinavians They love theirrecords man When you look
through the studies that thechurch genealogical records of
who developed what illness, andyou track it by family these
(12:19):
days the data is showing thatfolks who were not at risk for
mental for psychotic disorders,major mood disorders like, like
bipolar disorder now with heavysubstance use, especially like
with heavy cannabis use inparticular, but other substances
have their own problems.
But because cannabis isincreasingly getting legalized
(12:41):
in the U S and around the world,people think that it's perfectly
safe, I just want to caution.
Like I'm not here to killanybody's vibe, but I'm here to
add just a little bit ofcaution, substance use can be
part of it and infection can bepart of it like toxoplasmosis
has been linked to Schizophrenialike syndromes forever.
(13:02):
And even sometimes the causecould be unknown.
Sometimes when you sit down andthink about what people in what
you've experienced in light ofyour own mental health issues,
and then you start to evaluateyou start to evaluate your lived
experience with certain familymembers, certain patterns can
emerge.
I know for instance, dementiatends to be a common thing as
(13:25):
you get older, you watch yourgrandparents go through
dementia, you may even watch aparent go through dementia.
Already know that's a risk thatyou inherently carry.
But take you to with all ofpsychiatry, psychology, and
people who work professionallyin the mental health space, we
take the totality of the personinto consideration.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (13:45):
Yeah.
And every single part of them.
And I think that's why it's hardwhen people want to know what
caused this mental illness?
Is there one thing?
Mental illness is not caused byone thing.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (13:55):
Yeah.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (13:56):
Is multifaceted different things
that could have triggered thisperson to be experiencing what
the experience and sometimes toreally understand that this is
where that level of evaluationthat assessment is thorough.
We're looking at the wholeperson and not just 1 aspect of
the person.
So the third myth is that allyou need is prayer.
(14:17):
All we need as Africans whenwe're dealing with a mental
illness is prayer.
Please tell us a little moreabout that.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (14:23):
This one I've experienced personally.
When I was in med school, I was,went through like a phase of
depression in med school.
The point of needing medication,but I was really struggling with
getting burnt out.
And I started reading my bible.
The way they always tell you todo sunday.
And it didn't actually I learneda lot about religion and
(14:46):
theology, but it didn't help theway I was feeling.
It didn't help the things I wasstruggling with.
For some people it genuinelydoes, but not for everybody.
And you truly believe, if youtruly believe in a spiritual
system where there is anomniscient and all powerful God,
then you also have to believethat God has placed people in
(15:10):
your life with the skills tohelp you deal with the things
you're dealing with.
The idea that you alone shouldstruggle and pray through this
by yourself or that prayer alonecan solve it is to me ludicrous.
It's not to get super spiritual,cause I'm actually, these days
(15:30):
I'm actually not that religious,but the old, the verse goes one
shall chase a thousand, twoshall chase ten thousand, iron
sharpens iron, like, all ofthese are, like, things you need
help.
Can't do it just by yourself.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (15:44):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (15:45):
The idea that you just praying by
yourself will solve your issues,maybe it does for some people,
but not for everybody.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (15:52):
It's amazing that we think that we
can do every single thing thatwe need to manifest every single
thing that we need to experiencethat God is just going to drop
it on our laps.
If I think about Oh, I have tocook a meal.
Is God going to come down andcook that meal for me?
If I'm like, you know what?
I need to get myself from hereto maybe Georgia, but God is
(16:13):
going to just fly me there.
There are steps that I have totake.
There are actionable things thatI have to do myself.
Why praying?
And I think there's so muchpower to what you said.
If we think that God ispowerful, what is going to limit
him from having someone get intopsychiatry?
What is going to limit him fromhaving someone get into
psychology?
(16:34):
And I usually say that God hasallowed everything that's on
this planet that we see.
It was either created by God orhe has given someone the vision
to create it.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (16:44):
Yeah, exactly.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (16:45):
And sometime it can be really
frustrating when you see someoneis suffering with a mental
illness that is debilitated andall they want to do is pray.
And I'm always like, can we prayand seek the actual medical
mental health care?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (17:01):
The hardest ones, in my opinion, are
the folks who have religiouslybased delusions.
Because one, like, all ofpsychiatry really hinges on, it
hinges on understanding theperson's context so that you can
help treat them.
It's if you, I don't know ifyou've ever seen the movie Patch
Adams.
Robin Williams plays this doctorwho also a professional clown,
(17:25):
interestingly enough.
But there's this at the climaxof the movie, Robin Williams
says this line You treat apatient, you win, you lose.
But if you treat a person, youalways win.
With when you're thinking in thecontext of like how religion
interplays with mental healthissues.
Sometimes, especially withpsychotic disorders, some people
(17:46):
develop really bizarre thoughtsabout, spirituality and religion
and that is, that sometimes ispart of their illness and it's
hard to disentangle that.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (17:58):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (17:59):
More prayer is probably not the thing
they need.
And that's not to say that they,that's not to say that they
shouldn't be praying orshouldn't engage in some sort of
spiritual practice, but they'veso far in one direction that you
really have to bring them back.
And then try to help them gaingain a tether back to this side
(18:22):
of reality.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (18:24):
Yeah.
And so for the person who's outthere who said, I know I need to
seek psychiatric help.
I know I need to meet withsomeone like Dr.
Ajay Bhaddeh.
But I also want to have prayerpart of that.
What does that look like forsomeone who's saying, I do know
for sure.
I need psychiatric help.
My loved one needs psychiatrichelp, but we also want to keep
(18:46):
our faith, spiritual aspect apart of that.
What does that look like in thepsychiatry world?
squadcaster-be62_ (18:52):
Fundamentally people who are actively engaged
in a faith life of any kind, aspiritual life of any kind, have
better mental health outcomes.
So this is not me denigratingreligion in any sort of way.
But, There are some things thatyour psychiatrist can do, there
are some things that your pastorcan do.
Sometimes there's overlapbetween those things, but not
(19:14):
all the time.
And, for that matter there are,like, there are plenty of
psychiatrists who areChristians, who are like, or
Muslim, or, and who are reallydevout in their spiritual
practice.
I think one of the, one of thebest parts about psychiatry is
that it I think more so than anyother field of medicine.
(19:34):
It gives you permission to showup as your whole self.
If you're with a psychiatristwho, for whom you want
discussions about faith andspirituality to be part of it,
and they're not jiving withthat, maybe find a different
psychiatrist.
And and they may for instance,like I said earlier, I'm not
like, not religious really but Iunderstand the value that it
(19:58):
holds in people's lives and Iengage with them actively on
those topics.
I study different kinds ofreligions.
Because one day, you're going tomeet a patient who you have to
be able to decide very quicklywhether or not What they're
experiencing or describing isthe result of maybe some kind of
religious trauma, some kind ofmental health issue, like a
(20:20):
psychotic disorder, or if that'sjust them and they just have
like particularly unique ideas.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:26):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (20:27):
And without doing that work, you're
not going to figure it out.
But that being said definitelyengage in a religious practice
of some kind.
I think.
For most people it tends to behelpful.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:41):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (20:42):
and certainly not for everybody.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (20:44):
Yeah.
And I think to your point,there's power in that known as
psychiatrist is there and playsa role.
Your spiritual leader is thereand play a role and you're there
yourself to play a role.
And I think that's the mostimportant person.
The person who's seeking thehelp is the most important
person.
So not trying to downplay what apsychiatrist is doing, not
(21:05):
trying to downplay what yourspiritual leader is doing, and
also not trying to downplay whatyou can do when you're seeking
help and when you're seekingtreatment.
So the fourth myth that you havecome across is speaking about
mental illness will make itreal.
So the idea that when we're justtalking about it, when we're
saying things, we have theability to manifest it in our
(21:26):
lives.
So tell us about that.
Yes,
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (21:30):
for all sorts of things, but
pretending the wind isn't realjust because you didn't see it
is dumb.
Africa we have this idea that ifyou say something it's going to
become suddenly real as if itwasn't real before, right?
And just because you haven'tsaid it doesn't mean it isn't
(21:55):
there.
Just because there's darknessdoesn't mean light doesn't
exist.
I think that's one of the thingsthat has actually held our
cultures back a lot in manyaspects.
Sometimes we just fundamentallyrefuse to tell each other the
truth.
And because we don't say it, wethink the problem isn't there.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (22:17):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (22:17):
That part I will forever struggle
with.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (22:20):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (22:22):
because it delays people from getting
whatever kind of help they need.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (22:25):
And I think it has, like you said,
it's to your words, it set usback, but I feel like it has
crippled us in some way that wethink that all negative things
that we say or everythingnegative that we say is going to
manifest but what are thepositive things that we're
speaking over ourselves, overour country, over the continent?
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (22:44):
Yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (22:44):
Is it
squadcaster-be62_1_08- (22:45):
exactly,
comfort_1_08-25-20 (22:46):
manifesting?
And so when we're looking at oneperspective, we're saying all
things negative that come out ofyour mouth is going to ruin you
and is going to destroy you.
Okay, the other perspective, allthings positive that you're
speaking over your life.
How is that playing out?
And I think to Your point, thereality of being able to look at
both here, some things we haveto be mindful.
(23:07):
We don't want to speak out therebecause we know that there are
instances in which we can speaksomething over ourself and it
can go into a different space.
That is true, but it can't beevery single thing.
And I think that is a myth toyour point that has kept us
stuck behind and not moving.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (23:27):
yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (23:28):
I say this all the time as
Africans were so powerful and soresilient.
And then on the flip side iswhat is going on?
And to your point, that's thefourth myth.
squadcaster-be62_1_0 (23:40):
resilience is a double edged sword,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (23:43):
It is.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-2 (23:43):
because it is a, it is often a response
to the system looks like youbuild your sense of resilience
as a response to the system thatyou're in.
It's not because peopleinherently want to be resilient.
To some extent, yeah, you shouldwant to be resilient.
(24:05):
But it's always a, but it'salways a response to a
situation.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (24:10):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (24:11):
And if that situation didn't exist,
you wouldn't have a need to beresilient.
And In the name of persistingand being resilient, we refuse
to tell ourselves the truth.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (24:22):
Yeah, so those are the four myths that
you have come across that you'veheard sometime you've seen.
And number one is mentalillnesses for white people.
Number two is mental illnessmeans you have been cursed or
possessed.
Number three, all you need isprayer.
Number four, speaking aboutmental illness will make it
(24:45):
real.
When it comes to what you haveexperienced your length of time
in the field, what is one thingas it relates to myth about
mental illness that you wantAfricans to hear today and take
away from this today?
squadcaster-be62_ (25:02):
Fundamentally get help in my group chats with
Nigerian friends, in my groupchats with my siblings, we all
joke about how our parents needtherapy.
Do not perpetuate thestereotype.
Get help.
comfort_1_08-25-202 (25:19):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (25:22):
Yeah.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (25:23):
So I love that being able to know
that your mental health isfundamental.
Getting help.
There's nothing wrong with that.
So you are gonna be opening somedoors soon to Ajay Bhaddeh
Consulting Group.
Tell us a little bit about thatso people will be able to know
when that's open and where theycan find you.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (25:45):
Yeah so Like we discussed earlier, I
just finished my fellowship inForensic Psychiatry and no one
ever knows what forensics is,but if you think about it as a
simple equation, mental healthissue plus legal question equals
forensics.
So currently I work in thecorrectional system, so I'm
(26:05):
treating, I'm the treatingpsychiatrist at one jail on soon
to be other jails but one of thethings that they train you to do
in forensics is to doevaluations.
Sometimes these evaluations takethe form of like threat
assessment.
Sometimes these evaluations mostof the time, especially while
(26:27):
you're in training, these arecourt ordered evaluations.
And so it can be can range fromcompetency to stand trial,
criminal responsibility, meaningcan this person take an insanity
defense, that type of thingfitness for duty evaluations
some other evaluations thataren't necessarily court
ordered, fitness for dutyevaluations Asylum evaluations,
(26:51):
immigration cases, parentalfitness evaluations.
Basically if there's some waythat a mental health issue
intersects with the law aforensic psychiatrist is trained
to do it.
And so one of the things I'mlooking forward to in the coming
months is putting the finishingtouches on hanging up my shingle
(27:11):
and building a forensicconsulting practice.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (27:15):
Which is so needed.
So needed.
That's amazing.
What is the
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (27:21):
you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151 (27:22):
advice you've ever received as it
relates to being an African inthis field?
Thank you.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (27:28):
As it relates to being an African
in the field don't think it wasadvice that I received.
It's just like a lesson thatI've learned over time that like
for those of us who areoperating from the professional
side of things there is alwaysgoing to be at least one patient
over the course of your careerwho needs the exact kind of
(27:52):
training, skill set, and lifeexperience you have come through
to get to where you are.
And so that's why I alwaysadvocate, especially if you're a
psychiatrist, psychologist,therapist, if you're working in
mental health, show up as yourwhole self.
Someone who you are going tointeract with needs you to be
(28:15):
your whole self because theywill see a version of themselves
in you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (28:20):
Wow.
I've never heard it put the wayyou just explained it, that all
of your experience, one personneeds that.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (28:29):
Yeah,
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (28:30):
And if there's one person times that
by two times that by four timesthat by 10.
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-20 (28:37):
The weirdest part about this job is
that you will become a corememory for somebody.
Just for existing.
And you don't really realizethat.
I didn't realize how much of animpact I had on this one kid's
life until I treated him as anintern.
And then I think it was aroundthe time that I that might have
been the night before I hoppedon a plane to go to Nigeria to
(28:59):
propose to my wife.
And then him like, I, like heremembered this.
I didn't, he was like I treatedhim as an intern, got on a
plane, left the country, yearsgo by.
Four four years later, he's backon the inpatient unit when I was
in residency.
And there was something thatwas, like, oddly familiar about
the guy.
(29:19):
I just couldn't put my finger onit.
then a day before he's gettingdischarged again, he was like, I
remember you.
And then he starts reminding meof the conversation that we had
four years ago.
And he was like, it really itreally stuck with him.
It made him feel like he couldget through what he was going
through at the time.
For
comfort_1_08-25-2024_15102 (29:38):
Wow.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (29:40):
so just for existing, you will be a
core memory in someone's life.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (29:44):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-202 (29:45):
So why would you not show up as
your whole self?
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (29:49):
Yeah.
We're a core memory to them.
How wonderful is that?
What comes to mind when you hearadvancing mental health in the
African community?
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2024 (30:00):
I think there's a long way to go.
Some of it is that we're stuckin the past.
For better and for worse.
There have been like tremendousinnovators in mental health
across Africa for likegenerations.
I know in Nigeria, like there'sa psychiatrist named T.
A.
Lambo who was, he was a pioneerin thinking about ways to treat
(30:24):
people with mental healthissues.
There are, like, different wavesof deinstitutionalization and
how it's affected differentparts of the world.
There was a guy that spoke atthe American Psychiatric
Association a few years back.
he talked about thisorganization that he was
developing.
I can never remember his name,but I remember that he's from
(30:46):
one of the francophone Africancountries.
But he talked about theexperience of helping people,
because in many parts of Africa,people with, mental health
issues, they just get chained upand left in the middle of the
street.
And this guy made it his life'smission his daughter eventually
(31:07):
became a psychiatrist, but hemade it his life's mission to go
out and take care of people.
And these people would get wellenough that some of them
eventually became nurses, andthey were helping to take care
of other people who were in thesame position that they were
once upon a time.
I think, like I think there is atremendous opportunity for
(31:29):
thinking through how we do thedelivery of mental health care
in Africa through models likethat.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_1510 (31:37):
Yeah.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25-2 (31:38):
Like peer support is something that's
very big here in the UnitedStates.
What he's doing is like theultimate end of like peer
support, where you go frombeing, where you're not just
talking to someone, you'reactually treating the person.
Think there's a role for that,especially in Africa, because
there's just not enoughresources.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:00):
It was very limited and lacking for
many reasons.
What do you want people to takeaway?
When they've listened to thispodcast
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25 (32:08):
you're not alone there have been, there
are currently 8 point somethingbillion people on the planet,
and there have been how manybillions more that have existed
over the course of humanity.
Someone else has gone throughwhat you're going through,
you're not alone.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:25):
Dr.
Omotola Ajebade, thank you somuch.
squadcaster-be62_1_08-25- (32:29):
Thank you.
comfort_1_08-25-2024_151021 (32:30):
All right, everyone.
See you on the next episode.
Thank you for listening.
We hope to see you on the nextepisode.
This is Equipped to Prosper.
The podcast.
Visit equipped to prosper.com,the find an African mentor
(32:52):
provider therapy assistance, andstill much more.
Remember that you are equippedto prosper.
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