April 4, 2025 • 47 mins
Today’s disciple faces the daunting task of bearing witness in a post-Christian culture. If we are going to effectively call people into the gospel, it is essential that we know the comprehensive story of the Bible. Pastor Jon Morales knows just how to explain the storyline of Jesus throughout the Old and New Testaments. Discover a clear view of the message of the whole Bible today on Equipped!
Today's resource: Big Themes of the Bible: Grasping the Heart of Jesus's Message
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:16):
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of Equipped
with Chris Brooks. I am absolutely overjoyed that you have
tuned in today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
(00:37):
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He has given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say rejoice. And with that, I welcome you into
what will be a very exciting edition of equip. You know,
(00:57):
I want to talk today about the big themes of
the Bible, but I believe the I believe our conversation
will help you to see how the good news of
Jesus is woven all throughout Scripture today. My hope is
that our conversation will awaken within you a greater passion
to know Christ and to study His Word. And I
(01:19):
could not be more thrilled to have this conversation with
my brother and friend, John Morales. John Morales is an author.
He's a pastor. He holds degrees from New York University
Reformed Theological Seminary, and his Ph.D. is from Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary. He wrote. He's written two books, Christ Shepherd
(01:41):
of the Nations and our feature book today, Big Themes
of the Bible grasping the heart of Jesus's message. John,
how are you, brother?
S2 (01:53):
Doing great this morning. Chris. Thank you for having me.
S1 (01:56):
Hey, it's great to have you, bro, and I'm really
excited about your book. We're going to dive right into it.
But before we do that, I just want you to
talk a little bit about this overall series and how
you were invited to this Hobbes College Library series. It's
is pretty exciting.
S2 (02:15):
Yes, the book is part of a larger series that
comes from Oklahoma Baptist University and partnership with BNA. And
there are going to be about 21 volumes in it, uh,
some in theology, some in Bible proper and some in ministry. And, um, yeah,
it's a great series. There are about six volumes out
to date, and, uh, mine is the latest that was released, uh,
(02:37):
just in January. And then, um, and the goal of
the series is to train any and everyone in the
church with seminary level theological and biblical education. And so
the the volumes are short, you know, they're not, you know,
thousand page books because very few people, Chris, you know,
this will pick up those kinds of books, but these
are short. I had a lady, uh, at my church
(02:59):
a couple of weeks ago. She came to me and said, John,
I read your whole book last week, and I was
able to follow it really well. And so that's the
goal of the series, is that whether someone is an
elder or a deacon or a young believer that they'll
be able to pick it up and really have their
understanding of Scripture expanded.
S1 (03:21):
I love that story. I love that story for a
couple of reasons. Number one, because it highlights what I
know to be true about you, and that is your
passion for studying God's Word to teach it, but also
your desire to help others to grasp Jesus heart and
his message. Talk a little bit about how you do
(03:43):
that in the context of the ministry. We get a
chance to partner in and that is shepherding God's people here.
Woodside Bible Church.
S2 (03:53):
Yeah, I, um, I love teaching the Word of God.
I mean, it's a passion of mine. I was in
India back in 2008 for a for a business, uh, summer.
I was there for the summer with my family, and, um,
I had been a Christian for a number of years
already and had been in ministry, but I had not
really studied the Bible in depth. You know, the church
(04:14):
where I first went into ministry was more, you know,
kind of hands on, uh, seminary is seminary kind of thinking.
S1 (04:21):
And so.
S2 (04:22):
Um, and so then, um, but when I was in India,
you know, the Lord put Ezra 710 on my heart,
you know, for Ezra had set.
S1 (04:28):
His.
S2 (04:28):
Heart to study the law of the Lord, to do
it and to teach his statutes and rules in Israel.
And from there on, it just, you know, gave me
this passion to to get more deeply into the Word
of God so that I could teach it. You know,
it's very demanding on a person, on a pastor to, uh,
pour out week in and week out to the people.
But the people are hungry and the word is bottomless.
S1 (04:50):
You know, I love that thought. The people are hungry,
the word is bottomless. And you and I share this
passion we've given our lives to really helping to kind
of bridge this gap between, uh, people's need for Christ
and his, uh, life giving word and, uh, And and
oftentimes this maybe this disconnect, if you will, between, uh,
(05:15):
what people often feel like there's this intimidation often of
going into his word and, uh, maybe not feeling like
I can really get the truth that God has placed
there out of his word. Talk to that person's heart,
if you will, about why you wrote this book. Uh,
to maybe even help them to overcome that fear and
(05:36):
that intimidation.
S2 (05:38):
Yeah. You know, I've met many people who, like you said, Chris,
are intimidated by the bulk of the Bible. I mean,
it is it's a it's a big book. And, uh,
you know, I say in the book that sometimes it
feels to people like Tolstoy's War and Peace, you know, just,
like uninviting. Uh, and so, you know, my question was,
how can we help people feel familiar, uh, with Scripture
(05:59):
and see more of Christ? And so that's why I
wrote the book. You know, I wanted to, uh, help
people see more of Jesus by highlighting some of the
important themes in Scripture. So this this whole book is
an exercise in seeing. And, and I think I contrast
what I'm trying to do here with the fortune cookie
approach to Scripture, you know, uh, which is, you know,
(06:22):
you go and that's how I read the Bible, you know,
when I was a young believer, you know, or a
younger believer, I would go and, um, and just kind
of like open the Bible wherever randomly it fell. And,
and I just try to see what's going to help
me today. And, uh, you know, there at verse for
the day has a place for sure. And I still
do that. I have favorite verses. Uh, it is uh,
(06:44):
it can be very helpful. But I also have seen that,
you know, the fortune cookie approach to Scripture leads to
a skinny Jesus, you know, a thin understanding of who
he is and what he has done for us. And
so what we need is to grasp the whole of Scripture,
you know, with its interconnections, the relationship between the old
and the new, promise and fulfillment, sacrifice and law, law
(07:06):
and Gospel creation and new creation, all of these. And
when we do that, I think we will see and
taste more of the fullness of Jesus Christ.
S1 (07:17):
Yeah, I love that. This whole sense of connecting, grasping
the full or big idea of the of the scriptures.
I remember as a young Christian growing in my faith
and knowledge and understanding of God's Word, how Max Andrews
books did that for me. And as I'm reading your, uh,
your book, The Big Themes of the Bible, it does
(07:39):
the same thing. So let's talk a little bit about
the layout. How did you, um, come to the themes
that you address here in the book?
S2 (07:48):
Yeah, it's yeah, that was you know, when I was
first assigned that topic, I was like, oh, gosh, you know,
these are short, short books and there are many, many
books in Scripture. And so I made a list of, uh,
over 50 different books, or rather themes that come up
in Scripture. And then I tried to, group them and see, okay,
how can we simplify this? Because that's my goal. My
(08:09):
goal was not to be exhaustive, but to be up
to to simplify and to whet the reader's appetite for Scripture.
And so so the you know, the opening and closing
chapters are creation and healing because those said, the worldview,
you know, where do we come from? Creation. And where
are we going? Um, the healing, healing of God's creation,
(08:29):
healing of humanity. And then the four chapters in the
middle forgiveness, people, presence and yoke. Those were chosen because
as I studied many of the themes in Scripture, I
saw that when people embrace all of them, uh, for
their lives, they will be conformed more to the likeness
of God's Son, so they'll see transformation. It's like a
(08:50):
four legged stool, if you will.
S3 (08:52):
You know, if one is missing.
S2 (08:54):
We're going to be misshapen.
S1 (08:57):
Yeah. That's good. That's so helpful. And it gives a
good visual of how the book is laid out. And
it really gives us a sense of insight into your heart.
And I love the story that you opened up the
book with. You opened up the book with the story
of the six blind men and an elephant. Now, many
will be familiar with that story. Some won't. Why don't
you give us a sense of the history and what
(09:18):
that story really is aiming to get at, and how
it connects to maybe even our blindness on the identity
of Jesus?
S2 (09:26):
Yeah, I know, that's good. Yeah, it is a story
that is, you know, pretty popular. I mean, I've heard
it a number of times and yeah, it's this whole story.
It's a poem, really, of these six men who are trying,
you know, they're in a room, I guess, with an elephant,
and they don't really know what it is because they're blind.
And so, you know, one of them, you know, thinks that, um,
the elephant is a wall or a spear, a snake,
(09:48):
a fan, a tree, uh, a rope. And so they're
all wrong. Is that the idea is that none of
them can see what the elephant really is like. And
so the story gets told often just to make the
point that just like none of the blind men was
able to see the elephant. Uh. So old, so no
one knows the truth. Uh, capital T and, um. And so.
(10:13):
But but the really, uh, what we see in that
story is that everyone knows that there is an elephant. Uh,
you know, but here's the thing. The one who knows
that there's an elephant is both the narrator telling us
the very story that there is an elephant, but also
the people reading it.
S3 (10:29):
But both of.
S2 (10:30):
Those, the narrator and us as the readers, live on
a different plane of existence from the confused six blind,
blind men. And that's really the gospel. Exactly. Christ has
come to us from another plane of existence from heaven,
he says, the one who comes from heaven to enlighten us.
And so, um, so I actually, you know, made the
(10:50):
point that, hey there, there's a lot about this story
that that relates to what Scripture says to us, because
Scripture does not tell us that any of us can
see without any problems. Actually, we're all blind. And and
so Christ comes to us to help us see.
S1 (11:09):
Christ helps us to see through his word. And today,
John Morales is going to walk us through what are
the themes of the Bible, and how does that understanding
those themes help us to really get a richness of
the gospel and who Jesus really is. Friends, I really
want you to get a copy of this book, and
(11:30):
I'm going to be honest with you, I think it's
a great book for folks to read individually, John, but
I think it's a phenomenal book for a church maybe
to use as they onboard new members to their church and,
and really help to launch into this lifelong pursuit and
passion of studying God's Word. It all starts with really
(11:53):
understanding these big themes so that you can grasp the
heart of Jesus's message. We're going to take a short
break with these breaks are only opportunities for you to
join the conversation. Now. Two ways you could do that today.
As always, you can go to our website, Radio.com that's
equipped Radio.com or social media is open to you 24
(12:16):
hours a day, seven days a week, and it's a
great opportunity for us to use it for the good.
I know there's a lot of bad things happening in
social media land, but there's also ways for us to
use it. Redemptively and one of the ways we can
use it, Redemptively, is by going to equip radio on
Facebook or on Twitter. If you have questions or comments,
(12:36):
you want to join this conversation with John Morales and myself.
Please do that right now. When we come back, we're
going to ask this question what does Jesus teach us
about salvation? And we're also going to look at creation.
What does the Bible have to say about creation, and
why is that so important for us to understand in
connection to the gospel story? We'll be right back right
(12:57):
after this. Christianity speaks to every aspect of life, but
sometimes we struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our
changing world. Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean
McDowell equips you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation
about faith. With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including
(13:19):
our own Chris Brooks. It's our impact gift this month
to you when you support the Ministry of Equipped. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. Chris Brooks here reminding you
that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking
your calls. Hey there friends Chris Brooks here. Welcome back
(13:42):
to equip. You know, it's been a great week. Just
being able to talk to so many wonderful guests and
helping you to grow in your commitment to living, sharing
and defending your faith. If you've missed any of our programs,
don't worry, you can find them on our website. Always
remember their. Their past programs are there at equip radio.org.
(14:05):
As for today, I'm talking to author and pastor John
Morales about his newest book, Big Themes of the Bible
grasping the heart of Jesus's message. John, your first chapter
is dedicated to creation, but you come at it in
a unique way. You start with the Gospel of Matthew
and a discussion Jesus is having, uh, in Matthew 19. And, uh,
(14:28):
it's in the middle of a controversy about divorce. And
Jesus is challenged by his adversaries. And his response is,
have you, uh, haven't you read? And he replies, he
created them in the beginning, male and female. Quoting Genesis
chapter one, verse 27, it seems that Jesus's worldview was
(14:50):
really rooted in grounded in this sense that the creation
narrative of Genesis is absolutely true. What does Jesus want
us to understand about creation?
S2 (15:02):
Yes, Jesus, often in his defense of whatever he was teaching,
went to the Old Testament. It's the Scripture that he had.
And the reason I started the the chapter that way
is because there are some today that would say to us,
it's better for us to leave the Old Testament behind,
that it's not helpful in evangelism or for our own
(15:24):
devotional lives. Uh, but that is a very, uh, misguided thought.
And it's foreign to how any of the New Testament
writers thought and the way that Jesus thought Jesus did
not just focus on Jesus. He, uh, he loved the scriptures,
which were the the Hebrew Scriptures. And so, um, and
so I think for us, it's so important to begin
(15:45):
at the very beginning with creation. And so we go
back to Genesis one one. In the beginning, God created
the heavens and the earth. And so the way that
God is introduced to us in Scripture is not as
a father. It's not as a judge. It's not as
a warrior. It's as a creator God. And right from
those very first words of the Bible, we have a
(16:08):
polemic against a number of teachings present back then, as
well as even today. Right. It doesn't say in the
beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth. That
would be polytheism. Or it doesn't say in the beginning we,
the humans were around doing whatever that would be humanism, right?
Or in the beginning, Mother Nature did this or that
or whatever. That would be naturalism. And so right there
(16:31):
at the beginning, in the beginning, God and he created
the heavens and the earth.
S1 (16:37):
Yeah. I love on one hand, this book really helps
us to get a sense of the big themes of
the Bible. But on the other hand, just as you
just did, it helps to give us a defense, if
you will, against the false worldviews that we often encounter
in our culture. And I love that. Now, you started
with the beginning, and I do believe we should begin
(16:57):
with the beginning. But you also take us to the
words in revelation 21 and five at the end, kind
of the bookends of Scripture, Genesis to Revelation and Revelation
21 and five, it says this look, I am making
everything new. How should these words shape our perspective today?
S2 (17:18):
Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, it might have felt
a little strange to go from creation all the way
to the end, to new creation. But I wanted to
do that because, um, we need to know where we're
coming from, and we need to know where we're going,
because in the middle, things can get quite convoluted in
our lives. And I think it's so important for us
(17:39):
to know that not only that, in Genesis, we see
that the Christian faith is world affirming. We affirm the
goodness of God's creation. But then where we're going is
to new creation, where God is going to make everything
new and restore everything and make it even better than
it was at the beginning. And so when things are
(18:00):
bleak on Earth, we need the force and clarity of
things in heaven. And the Book of Revelation is forceful.
I mean, we know that, you know. And so it's
important to know where we're going. And, um, and it's
good for us to know that Scripture does not end
with death. It ends with life, right? It doesn't end
with judgment. It ends with healing. Uh, God is committed
(18:22):
to his humanity and to the earth itself.
S1 (18:25):
Yeah, I think about this, about the future, John, is that, uh,
knowing where we're going and knowing what Jesus says about
the future motivates me to make, uh, the right investments
and changes for today. You know, when I think about
the future and, uh, you know, where the promise of
God tells us we're ultimately headed? Man, that causes me
(18:47):
to invest in my relationship with Christ more fully, to
vest myself fully in the hope of Jesus. And so
I'm so grateful for that. Now you move from creation
to forgiveness. Why is that? And what is the chapter
on forgiveness, really? What are you hoping to really drive
home there?
S2 (19:09):
Yeah. I want people to know why forgiveness is needed. Um,
what it is, um, and then how it's accomplished. And
the reason I went there is because we have right away, uh,
after Genesis one and two, we come to Genesis three,
which is this chapter. Right? It's such a sad chapter
in Scripture where we see the fall of humankind, where
(19:30):
we lose the voice of God for the voice of
an imposter. And so it was important, um, early on
in the book, just to help people understand why there's pain,
why there's death, why there's violence, why they feel so
ashamed at times or guilty or lonely. Uh, and then
just I wanted to show I take my time, you know,
I was talking to someone, um, two weeks ago, and
(19:52):
he said, I read your whole, uh, your whole, um, book, and, uh,
the forgiveness chapter was my favorite. And, uh, and I
take my time in that chapter just to, to show
the progression of deception that takes place in Genesis three
as Adam and Eve begin to listen to, uh, to
the to the serpent and, uh, to the enemy, and
(20:13):
and really, the biggest lie, the serpent sold to Adam
and Eve was to convince them that God is a
God of no. And I see that in my own
life I see my own greed, my own coveting. It's
it's my attempt to say, hey, since you are a
God of no God, I'm going to fight to get
what I want and what I need. And, uh, and
(20:37):
it's so sad because when you really look at the chapter,
God gave them everything except one tree. He gave them everything. And, uh.
And yet the deception was that they became convinced that
he was, a God of rules, a God of know.
And when you talk to people today who do not
know him through Jesus Christ, that's so often what comes
out about how they view God. You know, he's this
(20:59):
giant taskmaster in the sky that they need to try
to keep happy or obey or follow his rules or whatever,
and that's just not who he is.
S1 (21:10):
You know, you I include in that chapter the beautiful
story of forgiveness that so many of us are are
compelled by this story of the woman with this jar
of alabaster perfume, or this alabaster jar of perfume who
washes Jesus's feet with her tears. It's such a vivid story.
(21:32):
You can't read it without picturing the moment, even in
some ways smelling the aroma in the room. What does
this story teach us about forgiveness?
S2 (21:42):
Yeah, I mean, so many things. It's it's incredible. But
two but two brief things is that one? Is that
in our natural state? Jesus is teaching us. People relate
to God the way a debtor relates to a money lender.
And so he starts talking about this debt the size
of our debt. But the second thing related to that
is that the size of our debt determines the size
(22:03):
of our love. And what Jesus and that connection is
not obvious to us. Um, what Jesus is teaching is
not that some people are in greater debt to God
than others, but he's showing us is that some of
us think that our debt is not that bad, that
our debt is not that big, and therefore we don't
really need that much forgiveness. But what he says is
(22:24):
that he who is forgiven little loves little. And so
I see that in my marriage that when when I
don't think that I need the forgiveness of God each
and every day, my ability to love my wife, uh,
goes down, uh, because I'm going to be thinking on
justifying myself, uh, to to myself and to her, rather
(22:48):
than saying that no, I need so much forgiveness. And
so the woman that is just, uh, pouring her very self, uh,
right there at Jesus feet, uh, he commends her because
her love, uh, is is so grand and it's displayed
in this way. Whereas the the man there, Simon, uh,
he did not show any kind of love toward Christ.
S1 (23:12):
You know, I just want to pause here for just
a moment and just say to our listeners that so
many of you maybe are new to the faith, or
maybe you're committed to discipling someone, walking with them until
Christ is formed in them. On this journey of knowing
and growing in Christ, I just want to let you
know that what John has put together in this book,
(23:33):
I really do believe the beauty of it is that
it is not an overwhelming book. Um, it is very approachable, uh,
in size. But you're talking about in one book the
major themes of the Bible written in a connected way,
helping you to understand them both individually and how they
relate to one another. How they are interconnected. But I
(23:54):
think the beauty of it, John, is your continued commitment
to coming back to and this is how it shapes
the way we live, and this is how it shapes
the way we live. You know, so often, and you
and I both know it so often when you read
a theology, a book on theology, or a book on
either biblical theology or hermeneutics, in studying scripture, um, you
(24:18):
can read it almost as a science, uh, unto itself,
detached from application. Um, but but I do believe and
I think you helped to bear this out, that the
beauty and the the intent of all good Bible study
is for it to be lived out. And when I
read this chapter on forgiveness, it doesn't cause me to
(24:41):
walk away with kind of puffed up saying, man, now
I understand what Scripture teaches about forgiveness and I'm ready
for my doctrinal quiz. It causes me to say, man,
if these things are true, if I really do believe
the Word of God is true, then the only question
(25:02):
I'm left to wrestle with after reading this is how
now shall I live in light of this? How now
shall I live in light of what Christ has done
in and for me, and what Christ has called me
to do as I serve him and extend his grace
to others. So I just I just want to thank
you for that. We got to take a short break, John.
(25:22):
But when we come back, I want us to, um,
to move to the section of the book that you
really dedicate to writing about, um, people, God's people, and
what Scripture has to teach us, uh, about that. Fair enough.
S2 (25:39):
Great. Absolutely.
S1 (25:40):
All right. So we're going to do that, my friends. listen,
don't go anywhere. Conversation is really just getting started with
John Morales. The name of the book is Big Themes
of the Bible. Some of you have been praying, God,
I want to understand your word. Well, maybe this book
is an answer to your prayers. Subtitled Grasping the the
Heart of Jesus's Message, you can find out how to
(26:02):
order by going to our website equip radio.org. As always,
we have information as well on our social media platforms.
Equip radio, Facebook and Twitter. Much more to come right
after this. Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program
is pre-recorded. While we won't be taking calls, we do
want to connect with you on social media. Welcome back
(26:24):
to equipped with Chris Brooks having a fascinating conversation with
author and pastor John Morales. John has written the latest
in the Hobbs College Library series entitled Big Themes of
the Bible Grasping the Heart of Jesus's Message. Uh. John
has laid out for us the major themes of Scripture
(26:46):
and helps us to understand how they're connected to one another,
but even more, how they reveal the beauty of the
good news of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
You know these themes, John, I know we talked earlier
about how you chose these themes, but in many ways,
these are the themes that continue to re-emerge over and
over again in Scripture. Is that right?
S2 (27:08):
Yes, that is right, Chris. Um, I think that as
I saw them, I was studying the different gospels and
I would see them, um, show up again and again. Uh,
and I even saw how, you know, sometimes Christians don't
know why they're not growing in their walk with the Lord.
But the reality is that we have, um, we have
been given so many ways. Of course, we have the
(27:31):
Spirit of God. And I do get into that in
the chapter on presence. But the reality is that he
has given us so many ways for us to be
able to grow. We need to understand his forgiveness and
make sure we're receiving it daily. We need to be
a part of his people, understand his presence with us
and the power that he gives us. But also we
need to take his yoke upon us. And so these themes,
(27:53):
like I said earlier, are like, you know, a four
legged chair that if one of them is missing, we're
not going to see much transformation.
S1 (28:01):
So let's talk about this chapter on people, because I
believe we could have a whole conversation about the dangers
of hyper individualism and how that's sweeping through our culture
and undermining and crippling people's spiritual growth. Talk about this
chapter on people, and why it was important for you
to include and a major theme throughout Scripture.
S2 (28:24):
Yes, our culture and the human heart conditioned us to
believe that the self is supreme and the self is
the source of our happiness. But that is just not
what Scripture teaches. You know, but even, um, I quote um,
in the book, a song from Humanistic Judaism. So this
is Judaism that has given up on the idea of God. And, uh,
(28:48):
and the song says, where is my light? My light
is in me. Where is my hope? My hope is
in me. Where is my strength? My strength is in
me and in you.
S1 (29:00):
Yes.
S2 (29:01):
And that is the song that really that our secular
age sings. That it's all about the self. And that's
where we're going to find fulfillment. But we see that
Jesus reorients us to see that there is another name
greater than my name, and there's another family greater than
my blood family. And we see this right in the
(29:23):
Lord's Prayer, you know, which I call to the prayer
of the family of God, because in that prayer he
starts by saying our so already in the way he's
taught us to pray. He has put us in the
context of a family. Our father in heaven. And nine
times there's that first plural pronoun there of our we,
(29:45):
our sins, our daily bread. Forgive us our transgressions as we.
And so Jesus, the way that he reorients us, and
the way that he shapes us in the likeness, in
his own likeness, is by placing us as members of
the family of God. And so I trace the theme
of the people of God. How from one man Abraham,
(30:06):
to one nation Israel, and then to the whole world,
God is gathering his people from every tribe and language
and people and nation. And so he's. And then. But
then I showed just how, uh, Jesus, uh, showed us
who the father is. And, you know, in Matthew, he
does this beautifully in the sermon on the Mount by, uh,
by showing us that what we really want, who we
(30:28):
really want is the father, the father in heaven. And
so he teaches us to, to to be able to
shift our motivation for doing good things from self-glory seeking
self to. To God's glory. Or from our tendency to
prefer our own tribe and exclude those who disagree with us. Uh,
(30:49):
and that happens when we understand that God is kind
to the evil and the unjust. Not just to the
people who think like me. And so we stop our
quest for the approval of others. When we internalize that
our father sees us in secret and he rewards us.
And the result is that it's going to make us
into people who are more humble, more generous in spirit,
(31:12):
and more confident.
S1 (31:13):
You know what I what I love about what you
just did is that typically when we're doing cultural analysis
and we reject hyper individualism, the replacement of that is
hyper collectivism, right? Where I lose all of my identity
in groupthink. And I think a lot of the problem
with the younger generations is that individuals are thinking from
(31:39):
a group, collective perspective in in dangerous ways as well.
We're kind of being pulled apart by hyper individualism on
one end, hyper collectivism on, on, on another. But in
your your chapter here, you talk about the ways in
which your relationship with God is private because there is
a private aspect of it. And then there's way there's
(31:59):
a way in which it is a part of a
larger story. Just talk about that tension and how you
work through. On the one hand, not giving into that.
I am my group and my identity is a group
identity only. Or this thought of total disconnectedness and I
am my feelings and looking within myself is how I
(32:21):
define myself.
S2 (32:22):
Hmm. Yes. No, that's really good, Chris, I think, um,
I mean, the West owes its high view of the
individual to the Christian gospel and the influence.
S4 (32:31):
Of, yes.
S2 (32:32):
Christianity, Because, I mean, as we know that in ancient Palestine.
But really it's been it's still that way in many
cultures today is that your identity comes from, your family
comes from. So so you don't have an identity in yourself.
And yet we see the Son of God. Christ comes
and he comes to individuals. Yes, he comes within the
people of God, Israel, but he comes to individuals and
(32:54):
he rebuilds them from the ground up. And so the Gospels,
we see all these stories of Jesus coming to Nicodemus,
to the woman at the well, to the man who's
been paralyzed for decades by this pool, to the blind
man from birth. And each time that he comes to them,
he restores their humanity, and he shows them the way
of God. And so our identity is not found in
(33:17):
our tribe, our family, our group, but it's found again
in our father in heaven. And so he lifts us
up as people created in God's image. Um, and I
don't have to be married, uh, to have my full
identity in God. I don't have to be a part
of another group to have to know who I am. Um,
(33:39):
I am an individual who who God created and whom
God loves and has purposes for, and yet at the
same time. So that's half of of the story. But
the other part of it is that we can't stop
there because just as the sound right, we know that
the sound of a lone instrument becomes more glorious when
when it's combined with a whole orchestra. Uh, right. So
(34:00):
also our individual lives become fuller when we join God's
family to accomplish his purposes for God's creation. And so
it's I think that Scripture allows us to to hold
that tension well, where we know that we each are
responsible before God, that we've all been endowed with incredible
gifts by God and incredible purpose. Uh, but that he
(34:23):
did not create us for isolation and that, in fact,
we are the healthiest when we are a part of
God's God family and coming to his mission. One of
the things that I love about living in community with
others is that joy is multiplied and grieve is divided.
S1 (34:41):
Yeah, I love that. I'm trying to think of who
who said this first, but, you know, this, uh, thought of, uh, friends,
it may have been Jake Rouse that, uh, friends are
such a gift from God. Because in friends, our joy
is doubled and our grieves are halved, you know, and
you think about that whole thought there. So, so to
(35:03):
the person, as we wrap this particular chapter up to
the person who says, then, hey, I love Jesus, you know, uh,
but I found a more convenient way of worshiping during
this pandemic. I like, uh, worshiping my pajamas, Pastor John. Uh,
I'm just going to stay at home and just connect virtually. Uh,
(35:24):
what do you say to that person on why they
desperately need community? Maybe even more than they think.
S2 (35:30):
Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons, um, is because
they need to take the Lord's Supper with the family
of God. And in my chapter on forgiveness, I go, uh,
on I speak of the importance of the Lord's Supper
for our healing, uh, our ongoing healing that God gives
to us. And you cannot take the Lord's Supper by yourself. Uh,
(35:53):
it's just not how it's practiced. And in Corinthians, Paul is, uh,
going after the church because they're not waiting for each other.
The assumption is this is something you do together. So
at the very least, for you to not wither on
the vine, for you to thrive and flourish as a Christian,
you must avail yourself of the elements of communion. And
(36:15):
communion cannot be taken by yourself.
S1 (36:19):
Such a such a powerful answer, and I think so
different than the way that we're so often taught about
the beauty, the importance, And the benefits of the Lord's table. Uh, listen,
I'm enjoying this discussion. We got one last break, but
I promise you, we're going to come back with Pastor John.
I do want to encourage you use these breaks as
(36:40):
an opportunity to order the resource. Um, we pray over
these programs and we handpick these resources because we really
do believe that they will help you to grow. I
could have easily presented a book to you on the
big themes of the Bible that was thousands of pages long. Uh,
John has done this in 100 pages. 100 pages. He
(37:04):
has summarized the major themes of the of the Bible
and how they relate to one another, and how they
point to, uh, the good news of the person and
work of Christ. I want to encourage you to get
it by going to equip radio. There you'll find out
more about John and about the book. Whatever you do,
don't go anywhere. Much more to come. Next up on
(37:25):
equip with Chris Brooks. We live in a culture whose
needs and obstacles to faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's
book apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current
(37:46):
issues and will help you share and defend the gospel
with relevant answers. It's our thank you gift for supporting
equipped this month. We'll send you a copy with your
gift of any amount to equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144.
S5 (38:03):
Or visit equipped radio.org. That's 88864.
S1 (38:12):
Welcome back friends. I hope you're enjoying this engaging discussion
with John Morales, author, pastor, and his newest book, Big
Themes of the Bible. We've been working through, uh, some
of the major themes of the Bible. One of the
chapters you've dedicated to the thought of presence. And I
love what Mark four really teaches us. When the disciples
(38:35):
are caught in this storm on the Sea of Galilee.
The squall, if you will, on the Sea of Galilee.
And I think you're you're right when you say in
the book they responded, how you would have responded, how
I would have responded. The panic that comes along with
a moment like that. But Jesus is with them in
the boat, uh, peaceful sleep. He he calms the storm.
(38:56):
But but what is it about that story that is
so compelling? And what does it teach us about presence?
S2 (39:02):
Yeah, you know, it's an amazing story because at first
the disciples are freaking out because of the storm. But
then when Jesus calms the storm, the disciples start freaking
out because of who's on the boat with them.
S4 (39:13):
Right? The storm was the least of their problems at
that point, when someone who has that much power was
by their side, and.
S2 (39:19):
So they start asking, and he's not going away. So
they start asking, who then is this, that even the
wind and the waves obey him. Uh, he was not
going away. But what? What we learned, what they learned,
and what we learned is that God in Jesus has
come not to destroy us, but to save us. And
so it's so important because I find that the people
that I pastor again and again, that through thick and thin,
and they go through intense things, we know this. What
(39:41):
they need to know the most is that God is
with them, that we don't go through life alone. And
so in Matthew, this is a very important thing for Matthew,
because he starts by telling us that Jesus is God
with us. He's the only one who does this. Emmanuel.
But then in the middle of his gospel, Jesus makes
that promise where 2 or 3 of you are gathered
(40:02):
in my name, there am I. And then the very
last verse of Matthew's gospel is when he gives us
this commission to go into the world. And he says,
surely I am with you every day. I am with
you until the end of the age. And so it's
so important for us to know that we are not alone.
But not only that, that we have God's Power within us.
S1 (40:24):
All right, let's do this. This is the rapid fire round.
So we got a few minutes left, and I wish
we had three hours, brother. But I got to get
in two more chapters with just a few minutes. But
let's talk a little bit about this, uh, this violinist,
this renowned violinist, Joshua Bell. You open up your chapter
on yoke, uh, by telling the story about Joshua Bell.
(40:49):
I want you to talk about him, but I want
you to explain what yoke is and why it is
such an important theme of the Bible.
S2 (40:57):
Yeah. You know, I listen to a lot of Joshua
Bell while I'm writing my sermons. Love, love his violin playing. Uh,
one of my favorite stories, right, is that he goes
and he, he's playing in, uh, he goes to his station.
He's like an experiment. They did. And he goes to
the subway station in Washington back in 2007. He starts playing,
you know, with this, uh, $3.5 million violin. And he
(41:18):
plays one of the most intricate pieces that, uh, Ever
been written or played for the violin, and only a
handful of people, thousands of them, are going by. Only
a handful of them stopped to listen. And then after
playing for like 40 minutes or something, he just picks
up his violin. Violin, and he's got like $30 in tips,
and then he walks away and, uh, but, you know,
the night before he had sold, you know, a whole
(41:41):
theater in Boston at $100 a ticket. He had sold
it out. And so I just make the point that
we can be in the presence of greatness and be
completely blind to it. And I think that's what happens
to so many people with Jesus. They've heard the name,
they've heard a couple of things, but they do not
see his greatness. And that's why I wrote the book,
to help them, to help uncover some of that greatness.
(42:04):
So they may be transformative to their lives. But one
of the reasons I titled The Yolk is because we
yolk is a frame, right? That we tied to animals
as they would work together or work on the field.
And so it's a kind of restriction. And in Matthew
11 Jesus says, take my yoke upon you and learn
from me. Some Christians don't see transformation in their lives
(42:27):
because they do not take Christ's yoke upon themselves.
S1 (42:32):
Yeah, I see that whole section of the book is
worth a book, friends. I'm telling you that whole section
of the book. And, you know, I don't know, John.
I'm sure everyone is drawn to a different section of
the book. You talked about those who are drawn to
the the chapter on forgiveness. Um, you know, obviously for,
for me, that that yoke chapter is so powerful and
(42:56):
I'm glad you've included it, because I think it's one
of the things that makes your book unique in that
so many people will pick up major themes of the Bible,
but many will miss that. Uh, let's let's end here. Uh,
because of time. And that is with your mom. I
love your family. Um, I'm so grateful that you and Anna, uh,
(43:18):
you know, allowed us to be able to pray with
you for your mom to to know some of your
deep love for her, how she shaped your life. But
you write about in a book which I would imagine
had to be very vulnerable. But you bring out a
really good point in what you learned, uh, what God
(43:38):
taught you really through her life about healing. So talk
a little bit about that.
S2 (43:44):
Yeah. Thank you. Chris. Yeah, I love you and your
family as well. So grateful for you. So grateful to, uh,
work with you. And, uh, but, yeah, my mom had
Herculean strength of will. I mean, she was an intense woman.
She raised six of us, um, on her own. And, uh,
in the last one was adopted. Uh, that's just the
kind of woman that she was. Yeah. But at the
(44:06):
end of her life, she had an aggressive, degenerative illness
that reduced her to a wheelchair. And so she was
unable to talk, to walk, to write at the end,
even to eat. And so just seeing such a powerful
full woman reduced to this chair was just, uh, a very, um,
vivid lesson for for me and my, my family and
(44:28):
my siblings. And, uh, but I would, you know, she
got to live with us for a few months. Uh,
a couple of, you know, two years, uh, she lived
six months with us and six months with my sister
come back to us. And so I would talk to
her about all the things that she's going to be
doing with her new body in the new creation. And
I tell her, mom, you're going to be running because,
you know, she couldn't even move. I was like, mom,
(44:49):
you're going to be running. And she just smiled. And
she loved learning. I was like, mom, you're going to
learn forever. And, um. And so but I gave her
the scripture, Philippians 121 and we would say it would
repeat it in Spanish. Uh, and it's for to me,
to live is Christ, and to die is gain. And
I would start the prompt because she would forget it,
(45:09):
but then she would finish it and we would say
that verse again and again. Cristo Garcia For to me,
to live is Christ. To die is gain. And it
just became this anthem for us, and a reminder to
me that God is going to make all things new,
and that for those who know him, that we are
(45:30):
going to have a resurrected body just like the Lord's.
And healing is where we're going. The last word of
Scripture is not death. It's life. It's not judgment, it's healing.
Revelation 22 five and the trees. The leaves of the
tree of life are for the healing of the nations.
That's just such an amazing, powerful word in Scripture.
S1 (45:53):
Well, the good news is, my brother, is that mom
is completely healed now and she is enjoying the promises
of Jesus. You said in your book that your mom
used to say, the Lord has taught me a lot
of things through this illness. I thank him for it.
You know, we can thank God for even the difficult
moments of pain and suffering when we know That healing
(46:16):
is promised for us and it lies ahead. That's the
final chapter. Not our suffering, not our pain, not this
broken world, but all things new in Jesus. John, thank
you so much, brother, for joining me today. Uh, I
agree with Bruce Ashford, who says John Morales is one
of the brightest young stars in the evangelical firmament. I
(46:38):
want to encourage you get a copy of big themes
of the Bible grasping the heart of Jesus's message. God
bless you, brother.
S2 (46:47):
Thank you Chris. It's great being here with you folks.
S1 (46:50):
I want to encourage you to get a copy of
this by going to our website Equip radio. Oh, I
can't thank you enough for being with us and I
can't wait to be with you again. Until next time. Remember,
equipped with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of Equipped
with Chris Brooks. I am absolutely overjoyed that you have
tuned in today. Why don't you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always with the lens of the
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
(00:37):
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He has given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say rejoice. And with that, I welcome you into
what will be a very exciting edition of equip. You know,
(00:57):
I want to talk today about the big themes of
the Bible, but I believe the I believe our conversation
will help you to see how the good news of
Jesus is woven all throughout Scripture today. My hope is
that our conversation will awaken within you a greater passion
to know Christ and to study His Word. And I
(01:19):
could not be more thrilled to have this conversation with
my brother and friend, John Morales. John Morales is an author.
He's a pastor. He holds degrees from New York University
Reformed Theological Seminary, and his Ph.D. is from Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary. He wrote. He's written two books, Christ Shepherd
(01:41):
of the Nations and our feature book today, Big Themes
of the Bible grasping the heart of Jesus's message. John,
how are you, brother?
S2 (01:53):
Doing great this morning. Chris. Thank you for having me.
S1 (01:56):
Hey, it's great to have you, bro, and I'm really
excited about your book. We're going to dive right into it.
But before we do that, I just want you to
talk a little bit about this overall series and how
you were invited to this Hobbes College Library series. It's
is pretty exciting.
S2 (02:15):
Yes, the book is part of a larger series that
comes from Oklahoma Baptist University and partnership with BNA. And
there are going to be about 21 volumes in it, uh,
some in theology, some in Bible proper and some in ministry. And, um, yeah,
it's a great series. There are about six volumes out
to date, and, uh, mine is the latest that was released, uh,
(02:37):
just in January. And then, um, and the goal of
the series is to train any and everyone in the
church with seminary level theological and biblical education. And so
the the volumes are short, you know, they're not, you know,
thousand page books because very few people, Chris, you know,
this will pick up those kinds of books, but these
are short. I had a lady, uh, at my church
(02:59):
a couple of weeks ago. She came to me and said, John,
I read your whole book last week, and I was
able to follow it really well. And so that's the
goal of the series, is that whether someone is an
elder or a deacon or a young believer that they'll
be able to pick it up and really have their
understanding of Scripture expanded.
S1 (03:21):
I love that story. I love that story for a
couple of reasons. Number one, because it highlights what I
know to be true about you, and that is your
passion for studying God's Word to teach it, but also
your desire to help others to grasp Jesus heart and
his message. Talk a little bit about how you do
(03:43):
that in the context of the ministry. We get a
chance to partner in and that is shepherding God's people here.
Woodside Bible Church.
S2 (03:53):
Yeah, I, um, I love teaching the Word of God.
I mean, it's a passion of mine. I was in
India back in 2008 for a for a business, uh, summer.
I was there for the summer with my family, and, um,
I had been a Christian for a number of years
already and had been in ministry, but I had not
really studied the Bible in depth. You know, the church
(04:14):
where I first went into ministry was more, you know,
kind of hands on, uh, seminary is seminary kind of thinking.
S1 (04:21):
And so.
S2 (04:22):
Um, and so then, um, but when I was in India,
you know, the Lord put Ezra 710 on my heart,
you know, for Ezra had set.
S1 (04:28):
His.
S2 (04:28):
Heart to study the law of the Lord, to do
it and to teach his statutes and rules in Israel.
And from there on, it just, you know, gave me
this passion to to get more deeply into the Word
of God so that I could teach it. You know,
it's very demanding on a person, on a pastor to, uh,
pour out week in and week out to the people.
But the people are hungry and the word is bottomless.
S1 (04:50):
You know, I love that thought. The people are hungry,
the word is bottomless. And you and I share this
passion we've given our lives to really helping to kind
of bridge this gap between, uh, people's need for Christ
and his, uh, life giving word and, uh, And and
oftentimes this maybe this disconnect, if you will, between, uh,
(05:15):
what people often feel like there's this intimidation often of
going into his word and, uh, maybe not feeling like
I can really get the truth that God has placed
there out of his word. Talk to that person's heart,
if you will, about why you wrote this book. Uh,
to maybe even help them to overcome that fear and
(05:36):
that intimidation.
S2 (05:38):
Yeah. You know, I've met many people who, like you said, Chris,
are intimidated by the bulk of the Bible. I mean,
it is it's a it's a big book. And, uh,
you know, I say in the book that sometimes it
feels to people like Tolstoy's War and Peace, you know, just,
like uninviting. Uh, and so, you know, my question was,
how can we help people feel familiar, uh, with Scripture
(05:59):
and see more of Christ? And so that's why I
wrote the book. You know, I wanted to, uh, help
people see more of Jesus by highlighting some of the
important themes in Scripture. So this this whole book is
an exercise in seeing. And, and I think I contrast
what I'm trying to do here with the fortune cookie
approach to Scripture, you know, uh, which is, you know,
(06:22):
you go and that's how I read the Bible, you know,
when I was a young believer, you know, or a
younger believer, I would go and, um, and just kind
of like open the Bible wherever randomly it fell. And,
and I just try to see what's going to help
me today. And, uh, you know, there at verse for
the day has a place for sure. And I still
do that. I have favorite verses. Uh, it is uh,
(06:44):
it can be very helpful. But I also have seen that,
you know, the fortune cookie approach to Scripture leads to
a skinny Jesus, you know, a thin understanding of who
he is and what he has done for us. And
so what we need is to grasp the whole of Scripture,
you know, with its interconnections, the relationship between the old
and the new, promise and fulfillment, sacrifice and law, law
(07:06):
and Gospel creation and new creation, all of these. And
when we do that, I think we will see and
taste more of the fullness of Jesus Christ.
S1 (07:17):
Yeah, I love that. This whole sense of connecting, grasping
the full or big idea of the of the scriptures.
I remember as a young Christian growing in my faith
and knowledge and understanding of God's Word, how Max Andrews
books did that for me. And as I'm reading your, uh,
your book, The Big Themes of the Bible, it does
(07:39):
the same thing. So let's talk a little bit about
the layout. How did you, um, come to the themes
that you address here in the book?
S2 (07:48):
Yeah, it's yeah, that was you know, when I was
first assigned that topic, I was like, oh, gosh, you know,
these are short, short books and there are many, many
books in Scripture. And so I made a list of, uh,
over 50 different books, or rather themes that come up
in Scripture. And then I tried to, group them and see, okay,
how can we simplify this? Because that's my goal. My
(08:09):
goal was not to be exhaustive, but to be up
to to simplify and to whet the reader's appetite for Scripture.
And so so the you know, the opening and closing
chapters are creation and healing because those said, the worldview,
you know, where do we come from? Creation. And where
are we going? Um, the healing, healing of God's creation,
(08:29):
healing of humanity. And then the four chapters in the
middle forgiveness, people, presence and yoke. Those were chosen because
as I studied many of the themes in Scripture, I
saw that when people embrace all of them, uh, for
their lives, they will be conformed more to the likeness
of God's Son, so they'll see transformation. It's like a
(08:50):
four legged stool, if you will.
S3 (08:52):
You know, if one is missing.
S2 (08:54):
We're going to be misshapen.
S1 (08:57):
Yeah. That's good. That's so helpful. And it gives a
good visual of how the book is laid out. And
it really gives us a sense of insight into your heart.
And I love the story that you opened up the
book with. You opened up the book with the story
of the six blind men and an elephant. Now, many
will be familiar with that story. Some won't. Why don't
you give us a sense of the history and what
(09:18):
that story really is aiming to get at, and how
it connects to maybe even our blindness on the identity
of Jesus?
S2 (09:26):
Yeah, I know, that's good. Yeah, it is a story
that is, you know, pretty popular. I mean, I've heard
it a number of times and yeah, it's this whole story.
It's a poem, really, of these six men who are trying,
you know, they're in a room, I guess, with an elephant,
and they don't really know what it is because they're blind.
And so, you know, one of them, you know, thinks that, um,
the elephant is a wall or a spear, a snake,
(09:48):
a fan, a tree, uh, a rope. And so they're
all wrong. Is that the idea is that none of
them can see what the elephant really is like. And
so the story gets told often just to make the
point that just like none of the blind men was
able to see the elephant. Uh. So old, so no
one knows the truth. Uh, capital T and, um. And so.
(10:13):
But but the really, uh, what we see in that
story is that everyone knows that there is an elephant. Uh,
you know, but here's the thing. The one who knows
that there's an elephant is both the narrator telling us
the very story that there is an elephant, but also
the people reading it.
S3 (10:29):
But both of.
S2 (10:30):
Those, the narrator and us as the readers, live on
a different plane of existence from the confused six blind,
blind men. And that's really the gospel. Exactly. Christ has
come to us from another plane of existence from heaven,
he says, the one who comes from heaven to enlighten us.
And so, um, so I actually, you know, made the
(10:50):
point that, hey there, there's a lot about this story
that that relates to what Scripture says to us, because
Scripture does not tell us that any of us can
see without any problems. Actually, we're all blind. And and
so Christ comes to us to help us see.
S1 (11:09):
Christ helps us to see through his word. And today,
John Morales is going to walk us through what are
the themes of the Bible, and how does that understanding
those themes help us to really get a richness of
the gospel and who Jesus really is. Friends, I really
want you to get a copy of this book, and
(11:30):
I'm going to be honest with you, I think it's
a great book for folks to read individually, John, but
I think it's a phenomenal book for a church maybe
to use as they onboard new members to their church and,
and really help to launch into this lifelong pursuit and
passion of studying God's Word. It all starts with really
(11:53):
understanding these big themes so that you can grasp the
heart of Jesus's message. We're going to take a short
break with these breaks are only opportunities for you to
join the conversation. Now. Two ways you could do that today.
As always, you can go to our website, Radio.com that's
equipped Radio.com or social media is open to you 24
(12:16):
hours a day, seven days a week, and it's a
great opportunity for us to use it for the good.
I know there's a lot of bad things happening in
social media land, but there's also ways for us to
use it. Redemptively and one of the ways we can
use it, Redemptively, is by going to equip radio on
Facebook or on Twitter. If you have questions or comments,
(12:36):
you want to join this conversation with John Morales and myself.
Please do that right now. When we come back, we're
going to ask this question what does Jesus teach us
about salvation? And we're also going to look at creation.
What does the Bible have to say about creation, and
why is that so important for us to understand in
connection to the gospel story? We'll be right back right
(12:57):
after this. Christianity speaks to every aspect of life, but
sometimes we struggle to connect God's unchanging truth to our
changing world. Apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture by Sean
McDowell equips you with the practical tools for meaningful conversation
about faith. With chapters from 26 leading Christian thinkers, including
(13:19):
our own Chris Brooks. It's our impact gift this month
to you when you support the Ministry of Equipped. Call
(888)Â 644-4144 or visit equipped radio.org. Chris Brooks here reminding you
that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking
your calls. Hey there friends Chris Brooks here. Welcome back
(13:42):
to equip. You know, it's been a great week. Just
being able to talk to so many wonderful guests and
helping you to grow in your commitment to living, sharing
and defending your faith. If you've missed any of our programs,
don't worry, you can find them on our website. Always
remember their. Their past programs are there at equip radio.org.
(14:05):
As for today, I'm talking to author and pastor John
Morales about his newest book, Big Themes of the Bible
grasping the heart of Jesus's message. John, your first chapter
is dedicated to creation, but you come at it in
a unique way. You start with the Gospel of Matthew
and a discussion Jesus is having, uh, in Matthew 19. And, uh,
(14:28):
it's in the middle of a controversy about divorce. And
Jesus is challenged by his adversaries. And his response is,
have you, uh, haven't you read? And he replies, he
created them in the beginning, male and female. Quoting Genesis
chapter one, verse 27, it seems that Jesus's worldview was
(14:50):
really rooted in grounded in this sense that the creation
narrative of Genesis is absolutely true. What does Jesus want
us to understand about creation?
S2 (15:02):
Yes, Jesus, often in his defense of whatever he was teaching,
went to the Old Testament. It's the Scripture that he had.
And the reason I started the the chapter that way
is because there are some today that would say to us,
it's better for us to leave the Old Testament behind,
that it's not helpful in evangelism or for our own
(15:24):
devotional lives. Uh, but that is a very, uh, misguided thought.
And it's foreign to how any of the New Testament
writers thought and the way that Jesus thought Jesus did
not just focus on Jesus. He, uh, he loved the scriptures,
which were the the Hebrew Scriptures. And so, um, and
so I think for us, it's so important to begin
(15:45):
at the very beginning with creation. And so we go
back to Genesis one one. In the beginning, God created
the heavens and the earth. And so the way that
God is introduced to us in Scripture is not as
a father. It's not as a judge. It's not as
a warrior. It's as a creator God. And right from
those very first words of the Bible, we have a
(16:08):
polemic against a number of teachings present back then, as
well as even today. Right. It doesn't say in the
beginning the gods created the heavens and the earth. That
would be polytheism. Or it doesn't say in the beginning we,
the humans were around doing whatever that would be humanism, right?
Or in the beginning, Mother Nature did this or that
or whatever. That would be naturalism. And so right there
(16:31):
at the beginning, in the beginning, God and he created
the heavens and the earth.
S1 (16:37):
Yeah. I love on one hand, this book really helps
us to get a sense of the big themes of
the Bible. But on the other hand, just as you
just did, it helps to give us a defense, if
you will, against the false worldviews that we often encounter
in our culture. And I love that. Now, you started
with the beginning, and I do believe we should begin
(16:57):
with the beginning. But you also take us to the
words in revelation 21 and five at the end, kind
of the bookends of Scripture, Genesis to Revelation and Revelation
21 and five, it says this look, I am making
everything new. How should these words shape our perspective today?
S2 (17:18):
Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, it might have felt
a little strange to go from creation all the way
to the end, to new creation. But I wanted to
do that because, um, we need to know where we're
coming from, and we need to know where we're going,
because in the middle, things can get quite convoluted in
our lives. And I think it's so important for us
(17:39):
to know that not only that, in Genesis, we see
that the Christian faith is world affirming. We affirm the
goodness of God's creation. But then where we're going is
to new creation, where God is going to make everything
new and restore everything and make it even better than
it was at the beginning. And so when things are
(18:00):
bleak on Earth, we need the force and clarity of
things in heaven. And the Book of Revelation is forceful.
I mean, we know that, you know. And so it's
important to know where we're going. And, um, and it's
good for us to know that Scripture does not end
with death. It ends with life, right? It doesn't end
with judgment. It ends with healing. Uh, God is committed
(18:22):
to his humanity and to the earth itself.
S1 (18:25):
Yeah, I think about this, about the future, John, is that, uh,
knowing where we're going and knowing what Jesus says about
the future motivates me to make, uh, the right investments
and changes for today. You know, when I think about
the future and, uh, you know, where the promise of
God tells us we're ultimately headed? Man, that causes me
(18:47):
to invest in my relationship with Christ more fully, to
vest myself fully in the hope of Jesus. And so
I'm so grateful for that. Now you move from creation
to forgiveness. Why is that? And what is the chapter
on forgiveness, really? What are you hoping to really drive
home there?
S2 (19:09):
Yeah. I want people to know why forgiveness is needed. Um,
what it is, um, and then how it's accomplished. And
the reason I went there is because we have right away, uh,
after Genesis one and two, we come to Genesis three,
which is this chapter. Right? It's such a sad chapter
in Scripture where we see the fall of humankind, where
(19:30):
we lose the voice of God for the voice of
an imposter. And so it was important, um, early on
in the book, just to help people understand why there's pain,
why there's death, why there's violence, why they feel so
ashamed at times or guilty or lonely. Uh, and then
just I wanted to show I take my time, you know,
I was talking to someone, um, two weeks ago, and
(19:52):
he said, I read your whole, uh, your whole, um, book, and, uh,
the forgiveness chapter was my favorite. And, uh, and I
take my time in that chapter just to, to show
the progression of deception that takes place in Genesis three
as Adam and Eve begin to listen to, uh, to
the to the serpent and, uh, to the enemy, and
(20:13):
and really, the biggest lie, the serpent sold to Adam
and Eve was to convince them that God is a
God of no. And I see that in my own
life I see my own greed, my own coveting. It's
it's my attempt to say, hey, since you are a
God of no God, I'm going to fight to get
what I want and what I need. And, uh, and
(20:37):
it's so sad because when you really look at the chapter,
God gave them everything except one tree. He gave them everything. And, uh.
And yet the deception was that they became convinced that
he was, a God of rules, a God of know.
And when you talk to people today who do not
know him through Jesus Christ, that's so often what comes
out about how they view God. You know, he's this
(20:59):
giant taskmaster in the sky that they need to try
to keep happy or obey or follow his rules or whatever,
and that's just not who he is.
S1 (21:10):
You know, you I include in that chapter the beautiful
story of forgiveness that so many of us are are
compelled by this story of the woman with this jar
of alabaster perfume, or this alabaster jar of perfume who
washes Jesus's feet with her tears. It's such a vivid story.
(21:32):
You can't read it without picturing the moment, even in
some ways smelling the aroma in the room. What does
this story teach us about forgiveness?
S2 (21:42):
Yeah, I mean, so many things. It's it's incredible. But
two but two brief things is that one? Is that
in our natural state? Jesus is teaching us. People relate
to God the way a debtor relates to a money lender.
And so he starts talking about this debt the size
of our debt. But the second thing related to that
is that the size of our debt determines the size
(22:03):
of our love. And what Jesus and that connection is
not obvious to us. Um, what Jesus is teaching is
not that some people are in greater debt to God
than others, but he's showing us is that some of
us think that our debt is not that bad, that
our debt is not that big, and therefore we don't
really need that much forgiveness. But what he says is
(22:24):
that he who is forgiven little loves little. And so
I see that in my marriage that when when I
don't think that I need the forgiveness of God each
and every day, my ability to love my wife, uh,
goes down, uh, because I'm going to be thinking on
justifying myself, uh, to to myself and to her, rather
(22:48):
than saying that no, I need so much forgiveness. And
so the woman that is just, uh, pouring her very self, uh,
right there at Jesus feet, uh, he commends her because
her love, uh, is is so grand and it's displayed
in this way. Whereas the the man there, Simon, uh,
he did not show any kind of love toward Christ.
S1 (23:12):
You know, I just want to pause here for just
a moment and just say to our listeners that so
many of you maybe are new to the faith, or
maybe you're committed to discipling someone, walking with them until
Christ is formed in them. On this journey of knowing
and growing in Christ, I just want to let you
know that what John has put together in this book,
(23:33):
I really do believe the beauty of it is that
it is not an overwhelming book. Um, it is very approachable, uh,
in size. But you're talking about in one book the
major themes of the Bible written in a connected way,
helping you to understand them both individually and how they
relate to one another. How they are interconnected. But I
(23:54):
think the beauty of it, John, is your continued commitment
to coming back to and this is how it shapes
the way we live, and this is how it shapes
the way we live. You know, so often, and you
and I both know it so often when you read
a theology, a book on theology, or a book on
either biblical theology or hermeneutics, in studying scripture, um, you
(24:18):
can read it almost as a science, uh, unto itself,
detached from application. Um, but but I do believe and
I think you helped to bear this out, that the
beauty and the the intent of all good Bible study
is for it to be lived out. And when I
read this chapter on forgiveness, it doesn't cause me to
(24:41):
walk away with kind of puffed up saying, man, now
I understand what Scripture teaches about forgiveness and I'm ready
for my doctrinal quiz. It causes me to say, man,
if these things are true, if I really do believe
the Word of God is true, then the only question
(25:02):
I'm left to wrestle with after reading this is how
now shall I live in light of this? How now
shall I live in light of what Christ has done
in and for me, and what Christ has called me
to do as I serve him and extend his grace
to others. So I just I just want to thank
you for that. We got to take a short break, John.
(25:22):
But when we come back, I want us to, um,
to move to the section of the book that you
really dedicate to writing about, um, people, God's people, and
what Scripture has to teach us, uh, about that. Fair enough.
S2 (25:39):
Great. Absolutely.
S1 (25:40):
All right. So we're going to do that, my friends. listen,
don't go anywhere. Conversation is really just getting started with
John Morales. The name of the book is Big Themes
of the Bible. Some of you have been praying, God,
I want to understand your word. Well, maybe this book
is an answer to your prayers. Subtitled Grasping the the
Heart of Jesus's Message, you can find out how to
(26:02):
order by going to our website equip radio.org. As always,
we have information as well on our social media platforms.
Equip radio, Facebook and Twitter. Much more to come right
after this. Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program
is pre-recorded. While we won't be taking calls, we do
want to connect with you on social media. Welcome back
(26:24):
to equipped with Chris Brooks having a fascinating conversation with
author and pastor John Morales. John has written the latest
in the Hobbs College Library series entitled Big Themes of
the Bible Grasping the Heart of Jesus's Message. Uh. John
has laid out for us the major themes of Scripture
(26:46):
and helps us to understand how they're connected to one another,
but even more, how they reveal the beauty of the
good news of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
You know these themes, John, I know we talked earlier
about how you chose these themes, but in many ways,
these are the themes that continue to re-emerge over and
over again in Scripture. Is that right?
S2 (27:08):
Yes, that is right, Chris. Um, I think that as
I saw them, I was studying the different gospels and
I would see them, um, show up again and again. Uh,
and I even saw how, you know, sometimes Christians don't
know why they're not growing in their walk with the Lord.
But the reality is that we have, um, we have
been given so many ways. Of course, we have the
(27:31):
Spirit of God. And I do get into that in
the chapter on presence. But the reality is that he
has given us so many ways for us to be
able to grow. We need to understand his forgiveness and
make sure we're receiving it daily. We need to be
a part of his people, understand his presence with us
and the power that he gives us. But also we
need to take his yoke upon us. And so these themes,
(27:53):
like I said earlier, are like, you know, a four
legged chair that if one of them is missing, we're
not going to see much transformation.
S1 (28:01):
So let's talk about this chapter on people, because I
believe we could have a whole conversation about the dangers
of hyper individualism and how that's sweeping through our culture
and undermining and crippling people's spiritual growth. Talk about this
chapter on people, and why it was important for you
to include and a major theme throughout Scripture.
S2 (28:24):
Yes, our culture and the human heart conditioned us to
believe that the self is supreme and the self is
the source of our happiness. But that is just not
what Scripture teaches. You know, but even, um, I quote um,
in the book, a song from Humanistic Judaism. So this
is Judaism that has given up on the idea of God. And, uh,
(28:48):
and the song says, where is my light? My light
is in me. Where is my hope? My hope is
in me. Where is my strength? My strength is in
me and in you.
S1 (29:00):
Yes.
S2 (29:01):
And that is the song that really that our secular
age sings. That it's all about the self. And that's
where we're going to find fulfillment. But we see that
Jesus reorients us to see that there is another name
greater than my name, and there's another family greater than
my blood family. And we see this right in the
(29:23):
Lord's Prayer, you know, which I call to the prayer
of the family of God, because in that prayer he
starts by saying our so already in the way he's
taught us to pray. He has put us in the
context of a family. Our father in heaven. And nine
times there's that first plural pronoun there of our we,
(29:45):
our sins, our daily bread. Forgive us our transgressions as we.
And so Jesus, the way that he reorients us, and
the way that he shapes us in the likeness, in
his own likeness, is by placing us as members of
the family of God. And so I trace the theme
of the people of God. How from one man Abraham,
(30:06):
to one nation Israel, and then to the whole world,
God is gathering his people from every tribe and language
and people and nation. And so he's. And then. But
then I showed just how, uh, Jesus, uh, showed us
who the father is. And, you know, in Matthew, he
does this beautifully in the sermon on the Mount by, uh,
by showing us that what we really want, who we
(30:28):
really want is the father, the father in heaven. And
so he teaches us to, to to be able to
shift our motivation for doing good things from self-glory seeking
self to. To God's glory. Or from our tendency to
prefer our own tribe and exclude those who disagree with us. Uh,
(30:49):
and that happens when we understand that God is kind
to the evil and the unjust. Not just to the
people who think like me. And so we stop our
quest for the approval of others. When we internalize that
our father sees us in secret and he rewards us.
And the result is that it's going to make us
into people who are more humble, more generous in spirit,
(31:12):
and more confident.
S1 (31:13):
You know what I what I love about what you
just did is that typically when we're doing cultural analysis
and we reject hyper individualism, the replacement of that is
hyper collectivism, right? Where I lose all of my identity
in groupthink. And I think a lot of the problem
with the younger generations is that individuals are thinking from
(31:39):
a group, collective perspective in in dangerous ways as well.
We're kind of being pulled apart by hyper individualism on
one end, hyper collectivism on, on, on another. But in
your your chapter here, you talk about the ways in
which your relationship with God is private because there is
a private aspect of it. And then there's way there's
(31:59):
a way in which it is a part of a
larger story. Just talk about that tension and how you
work through. On the one hand, not giving into that.
I am my group and my identity is a group
identity only. Or this thought of total disconnectedness and I
am my feelings and looking within myself is how I
(32:21):
define myself.
S2 (32:22):
Hmm. Yes. No, that's really good, Chris, I think, um,
I mean, the West owes its high view of the
individual to the Christian gospel and the influence.
S4 (32:31):
Of, yes.
S2 (32:32):
Christianity, Because, I mean, as we know that in ancient Palestine.
But really it's been it's still that way in many
cultures today is that your identity comes from, your family
comes from. So so you don't have an identity in yourself.
And yet we see the Son of God. Christ comes
and he comes to individuals. Yes, he comes within the
people of God, Israel, but he comes to individuals and
(32:54):
he rebuilds them from the ground up. And so the Gospels,
we see all these stories of Jesus coming to Nicodemus,
to the woman at the well, to the man who's
been paralyzed for decades by this pool, to the blind
man from birth. And each time that he comes to them,
he restores their humanity, and he shows them the way
of God. And so our identity is not found in
(33:17):
our tribe, our family, our group, but it's found again
in our father in heaven. And so he lifts us
up as people created in God's image. Um, and I
don't have to be married, uh, to have my full
identity in God. I don't have to be a part
of another group to have to know who I am. Um,
(33:39):
I am an individual who who God created and whom
God loves and has purposes for, and yet at the
same time. So that's half of of the story. But
the other part of it is that we can't stop
there because just as the sound right, we know that
the sound of a lone instrument becomes more glorious when
when it's combined with a whole orchestra. Uh, right. So
(34:00):
also our individual lives become fuller when we join God's
family to accomplish his purposes for God's creation. And so
it's I think that Scripture allows us to to hold
that tension well, where we know that we each are
responsible before God, that we've all been endowed with incredible
gifts by God and incredible purpose. Uh, but that he
(34:23):
did not create us for isolation and that, in fact,
we are the healthiest when we are a part of
God's God family and coming to his mission. One of
the things that I love about living in community with
others is that joy is multiplied and grieve is divided.
S1 (34:41):
Yeah, I love that. I'm trying to think of who
who said this first, but, you know, this, uh, thought of, uh, friends,
it may have been Jake Rouse that, uh, friends are
such a gift from God. Because in friends, our joy
is doubled and our grieves are halved, you know, and
you think about that whole thought there. So, so to
(35:03):
the person, as we wrap this particular chapter up to
the person who says, then, hey, I love Jesus, you know, uh,
but I found a more convenient way of worshiping during
this pandemic. I like, uh, worshiping my pajamas, Pastor John. Uh,
I'm just going to stay at home and just connect virtually. Uh,
(35:24):
what do you say to that person on why they
desperately need community? Maybe even more than they think.
S2 (35:30):
Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons, um, is because
they need to take the Lord's Supper with the family
of God. And in my chapter on forgiveness, I go, uh,
on I speak of the importance of the Lord's Supper
for our healing, uh, our ongoing healing that God gives
to us. And you cannot take the Lord's Supper by yourself. Uh,
(35:53):
it's just not how it's practiced. And in Corinthians, Paul is, uh,
going after the church because they're not waiting for each other.
The assumption is this is something you do together. So
at the very least, for you to not wither on
the vine, for you to thrive and flourish as a Christian,
you must avail yourself of the elements of communion. And
(36:15):
communion cannot be taken by yourself.
S1 (36:19):
Such a such a powerful answer, and I think so
different than the way that we're so often taught about
the beauty, the importance, And the benefits of the Lord's table. Uh, listen,
I'm enjoying this discussion. We got one last break, but
I promise you, we're going to come back with Pastor John.
I do want to encourage you use these breaks as
(36:40):
an opportunity to order the resource. Um, we pray over
these programs and we handpick these resources because we really
do believe that they will help you to grow. I
could have easily presented a book to you on the
big themes of the Bible that was thousands of pages long. Uh,
John has done this in 100 pages. 100 pages. He
(37:04):
has summarized the major themes of the of the Bible
and how they relate to one another, and how they
point to, uh, the good news of the person and
work of Christ. I want to encourage you to get
it by going to equip radio. There you'll find out
more about John and about the book. Whatever you do,
don't go anywhere. Much more to come. Next up on
(37:25):
equip with Chris Brooks. We live in a culture whose
needs and obstacles to faith are constantly shifting. Sean McDowell's
book apologetics for an Ever Changing Culture, addresses many current
(37:46):
issues and will help you share and defend the gospel
with relevant answers. It's our thank you gift for supporting
equipped this month. We'll send you a copy with your
gift of any amount to equipped. Just call (888)Â 644-4144.
S5 (38:03):
Or visit equipped radio.org. That's 88864.
S1 (38:12):
Welcome back friends. I hope you're enjoying this engaging discussion
with John Morales, author, pastor, and his newest book, Big
Themes of the Bible. We've been working through, uh, some
of the major themes of the Bible. One of the
chapters you've dedicated to the thought of presence. And I
love what Mark four really teaches us. When the disciples
(38:35):
are caught in this storm on the Sea of Galilee.
The squall, if you will, on the Sea of Galilee.
And I think you're you're right when you say in
the book they responded, how you would have responded, how
I would have responded. The panic that comes along with
a moment like that. But Jesus is with them in
the boat, uh, peaceful sleep. He he calms the storm.
(38:56):
But but what is it about that story that is
so compelling? And what does it teach us about presence?
S2 (39:02):
Yeah, you know, it's an amazing story because at first
the disciples are freaking out because of the storm. But
then when Jesus calms the storm, the disciples start freaking
out because of who's on the boat with them.
S4 (39:13):
Right? The storm was the least of their problems at
that point, when someone who has that much power was
by their side, and.
S2 (39:19):
So they start asking, and he's not going away. So
they start asking, who then is this, that even the
wind and the waves obey him. Uh, he was not
going away. But what? What we learned, what they learned,
and what we learned is that God in Jesus has
come not to destroy us, but to save us. And
so it's so important because I find that the people
that I pastor again and again, that through thick and thin,
and they go through intense things, we know this. What
(39:41):
they need to know the most is that God is
with them, that we don't go through life alone. And
so in Matthew, this is a very important thing for Matthew,
because he starts by telling us that Jesus is God
with us. He's the only one who does this. Emmanuel.
But then in the middle of his gospel, Jesus makes
that promise where 2 or 3 of you are gathered
(40:02):
in my name, there am I. And then the very
last verse of Matthew's gospel is when he gives us
this commission to go into the world. And he says,
surely I am with you every day. I am with
you until the end of the age. And so it's
so important for us to know that we are not alone.
But not only that, that we have God's Power within us.
S1 (40:24):
All right, let's do this. This is the rapid fire round.
So we got a few minutes left, and I wish
we had three hours, brother. But I got to get
in two more chapters with just a few minutes. But
let's talk a little bit about this, uh, this violinist,
this renowned violinist, Joshua Bell. You open up your chapter
on yoke, uh, by telling the story about Joshua Bell.
(40:49):
I want you to talk about him, but I want
you to explain what yoke is and why it is
such an important theme of the Bible.
S2 (40:57):
Yeah. You know, I listen to a lot of Joshua
Bell while I'm writing my sermons. Love, love his violin playing. Uh,
one of my favorite stories, right, is that he goes
and he, he's playing in, uh, he goes to his station.
He's like an experiment. They did. And he goes to
the subway station in Washington back in 2007. He starts playing,
you know, with this, uh, $3.5 million violin. And he
(41:18):
plays one of the most intricate pieces that, uh, Ever
been written or played for the violin, and only a
handful of people, thousands of them, are going by. Only
a handful of them stopped to listen. And then after
playing for like 40 minutes or something, he just picks
up his violin. Violin, and he's got like $30 in tips,
and then he walks away and, uh, but, you know,
the night before he had sold, you know, a whole
(41:41):
theater in Boston at $100 a ticket. He had sold
it out. And so I just make the point that
we can be in the presence of greatness and be
completely blind to it. And I think that's what happens
to so many people with Jesus. They've heard the name,
they've heard a couple of things, but they do not
see his greatness. And that's why I wrote the book,
to help them, to help uncover some of that greatness.
(42:04):
So they may be transformative to their lives. But one
of the reasons I titled The Yolk is because we
yolk is a frame, right? That we tied to animals
as they would work together or work on the field.
And so it's a kind of restriction. And in Matthew
11 Jesus says, take my yoke upon you and learn
from me. Some Christians don't see transformation in their lives
(42:27):
because they do not take Christ's yoke upon themselves.
S1 (42:32):
Yeah, I see that whole section of the book is
worth a book, friends. I'm telling you that whole section
of the book. And, you know, I don't know, John.
I'm sure everyone is drawn to a different section of
the book. You talked about those who are drawn to
the the chapter on forgiveness. Um, you know, obviously for,
for me, that that yoke chapter is so powerful and
(42:56):
I'm glad you've included it, because I think it's one
of the things that makes your book unique in that
so many people will pick up major themes of the Bible,
but many will miss that. Uh, let's let's end here. Uh,
because of time. And that is with your mom. I
love your family. Um, I'm so grateful that you and Anna, uh,
(43:18):
you know, allowed us to be able to pray with
you for your mom to to know some of your
deep love for her, how she shaped your life. But
you write about in a book which I would imagine
had to be very vulnerable. But you bring out a
really good point in what you learned, uh, what God
(43:38):
taught you really through her life about healing. So talk
a little bit about that.
S2 (43:44):
Yeah. Thank you. Chris. Yeah, I love you and your
family as well. So grateful for you. So grateful to, uh,
work with you. And, uh, but, yeah, my mom had
Herculean strength of will. I mean, she was an intense woman.
She raised six of us, um, on her own. And, uh,
in the last one was adopted. Uh, that's just the
kind of woman that she was. Yeah. But at the
(44:06):
end of her life, she had an aggressive, degenerative illness
that reduced her to a wheelchair. And so she was
unable to talk, to walk, to write at the end,
even to eat. And so just seeing such a powerful
full woman reduced to this chair was just, uh, a very, um,
vivid lesson for for me and my, my family and
(44:28):
my siblings. And, uh, but I would, you know, she
got to live with us for a few months. Uh,
a couple of, you know, two years, uh, she lived
six months with us and six months with my sister
come back to us. And so I would talk to
her about all the things that she's going to be
doing with her new body in the new creation. And
I tell her, mom, you're going to be running because,
you know, she couldn't even move. I was like, mom,
(44:49):
you're going to be running. And she just smiled. And
she loved learning. I was like, mom, you're going to
learn forever. And, um. And so but I gave her
the scripture, Philippians 121 and we would say it would
repeat it in Spanish. Uh, and it's for to me,
to live is Christ, and to die is gain. And
I would start the prompt because she would forget it,
(45:09):
but then she would finish it and we would say
that verse again and again. Cristo Garcia For to me,
to live is Christ. To die is gain. And it
just became this anthem for us, and a reminder to
me that God is going to make all things new,
and that for those who know him, that we are
(45:30):
going to have a resurrected body just like the Lord's.
And healing is where we're going. The last word of
Scripture is not death. It's life. It's not judgment, it's healing.
Revelation 22 five and the trees. The leaves of the
tree of life are for the healing of the nations.
That's just such an amazing, powerful word in Scripture.
S1 (45:53):
Well, the good news is, my brother, is that mom
is completely healed now and she is enjoying the promises
of Jesus. You said in your book that your mom
used to say, the Lord has taught me a lot
of things through this illness. I thank him for it.
You know, we can thank God for even the difficult
moments of pain and suffering when we know That healing
(46:16):
is promised for us and it lies ahead. That's the
final chapter. Not our suffering, not our pain, not this
broken world, but all things new in Jesus. John, thank
you so much, brother, for joining me today. Uh, I
agree with Bruce Ashford, who says John Morales is one
of the brightest young stars in the evangelical firmament. I
(46:38):
want to encourage you get a copy of big themes
of the Bible grasping the heart of Jesus's message. God
bless you, brother.
S2 (46:47):
Thank you Chris. It's great being here with you folks.
S1 (46:50):
I want to encourage you to get a copy of
this by going to our website Equip radio. Oh, I
can't thank you enough for being with us and I
can't wait to be with you again. Until next time. Remember,
equipped with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio,
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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