August 15, 2025 • 47 mins
As Christians, we all want to live for Christ, glorify God, and honor Him to the end. But are you ready to finish well? Robert Wolgemuth has faced death more than once and knows what it takes to be ready to die. On the next Equipped with Chris Brooks, he helps us prepare to fearlessly live the last season of life with gratitude and hope.
Featured resource:
Finish Line: Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for the End of your Life by Robert Wolgemuth
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:15):
Today's program has been pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open. Well hey there friends, welcome to another exciting
edition of Equipped with Chris Brooks. I'm so grateful that
you joined me today. Can you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
(00:38):
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He has given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice! Well, I hope you had a phenomenal
(00:58):
weekend that featured gathering together with the people of God
and the house of God to lift up the name
of God. I hope you enjoyed Great Covenant community, and
today I want us to be able to have an
intimate and really important conversation. today, I want to talk
about finishing well. Now, we've all heard how important it
(01:20):
is to finish well, whether it is finishing a project
at work or finishing a fitness goal or accomplishing an
educational aspiration. We've all heard that it's not how you start,
but how you finish. But what about crossing the finish
line of life? Well, do you have a plan for
(01:41):
that reality? You know, I think that question is a
question that we all need to be asked and to
ponder deeply. Now, you know, if you've been a veteran
of this program, that before I was a pastor, I
worked in the financial services industry, and part of my responsibility,
among others, was to talk to people about life insurance
(02:02):
and estate planning and to think about that moment of
crossing the finish line. And I have to admit, there
were many people who just didn't want to have the conversation.
Maybe they felt it was too difficult to have. But
what if I told you we didn't have to have
fear that we could have peace? When talking about crossing
(02:23):
the finish line. Well, today I want to help you
to develop a practical plan of how you want to
cross the finish line. I want you to also be
prepared spiritually as well. And I'm convinced that we who
are followers of Jesus Christ, have the best news ever
because it prepares us for life and not just life,
but to finish line and crossing over into eternal life.
(02:47):
I love what Paul writes in Romans 14 and seven,
for none of us lives to himself alone, and none
of us dies to himself alone, for none of us live, uh, ourselves,
for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
But if we live, we live as unto the Lord.
And if we die, we die as unto the Lord.
(03:08):
And so with those words, I want to invite in
a very special guest today, someone who I appreciate greatly.
Robert Wohlgemuth, who has written a wonderful book simply entitled
Finish Line, subtitled Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for
the End of Your Life. Robert joins me today. How
(03:29):
are you today, Robert?
S2 (03:31):
Oh, Chris, I've been looking forward to this man, I
I'm so excited about this time with you. Thank you.
S1 (03:37):
Well, I'm grateful for you. And I'm grateful for this project.
There's so many questions that I have, but I want
to start with how you opened the book. You opened
the book by recounting, um, Bobby's funeral. For those who
don't know, Bobby was your first wife. She passed of cancer.
(03:58):
You guys were married for almost 45 years.
S2 (04:03):
That's right.
S1 (04:03):
I don't know if you've, uh. And maybe I'm wrong.
Is this the first book that you've shared? That moment? Um, and.
S2 (04:12):
Yeah, in in this kind of detail, I bump into
it in my book Gun Lab, but I this is
the first time I really unpack all the details, including
my daughters being right there with Bobby and me in
our living room, in the hospital bed right there, plunked
in the middle of the living room in 2014.
S1 (04:31):
Yes. How does that moment and that journey with Bobby
also twice facing cancer yourself? How does all of that
play into finish line?
S2 (04:45):
Well, um, she went first. Now, obviously I've had lots
of family members and friends and so forth over the
years who have died, but not somebody to whom I'd
been married for almost 45 years. So I got a
front row seat starting in February of 2012, when she
(05:08):
was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer. So that was
30 months, Chris, of a front row seat, um, with
somebody whom I loved, somebody who bore children together. We
bore children together. Um, and just watching her reaction to it.
And Bobby was a woman of the word. So she
(05:32):
didn't fancy herself as a teacher, a gifted teacher. In fact,
she led a women's Bible study for years. They all,
of course, were on the front row at her funeral.
But she loved the word. And, uh, I think 35
times she went wall to wall in God's Word reading. Wow. Um,
each year. So she knew it. And so that that
(05:55):
prepared her. I mean, she'd do it. She did not
do that. So she'd die. Well, but that's sort of
that that sort of the byproduct, the the, the gift
that was given to her by the Lord because she
knew his word so well. Yeah. And so I and
you know, there are so many things I don't want
to chase rabbits. There are so many things that I
(06:17):
learned from her. So that, in fact, I say in
the book, I lost my fear of death. Now, did
I lose my fear of dying? Well. You know, uh, 30%
of us will die suddenly. So, like I like I say, so, uh,
(06:37):
for a man that could be his friends, hearing him say, hey,
you guys watch this. So that's that's 30% of us
will die suddenly like that, but 70% of us will
have time. Bobby had 30 months. Yeah. So, um, that's
a that's a very interesting statistic. Uh, you know, you
get a sharp pain in your chest, you go, why
(07:00):
am I part of the 30%? So are you. You
go in for a scan, which I've done quite a
bit now in the last three years.
S1 (07:06):
Sure.
S2 (07:06):
And you think, well, Lord, is this going to be
my 30 month exit ramp? So it's a very interesting thing,
but the scripture says it's appointed unto man what wants
to die?
S1 (07:17):
Yes.
S2 (07:18):
So we're all going to die?
S1 (07:20):
Yeah. You know what's really interesting, uh, Robert, is that
there are some folks who. This conversation seems to be
very naturally received because of where they're at. Maybe they've
received the diagnoses, maybe they are aging and they just
see the finish line approaching. But why should everyone pay
(07:44):
attention to this conversation? Or maybe ask a different way?
How is Finish Line, a book written with every one
of us in mind?
S2 (07:57):
Well, the huge challenge of writing you know this so
well is that people read your writing one person at
a time. Sure. So right now, you and I are
in the studio. We're talking into microphones, and we have
no idea how many thousands of people are listening. So
we can address the audience. As in most of you,
(08:18):
many of you. But when you write a book, I
picture one person. In fact, for the first few books
I wrote, Chris, I actually got a yellow post-it note
and wrote somebody's name on the on that note and
put it on my computer on the screen.
S1 (08:36):
I know exactly what you're talking.
S2 (08:38):
To that one person. I did, I wrote the whole book.
That was a little tip Tim LaHaye gave me 40
years ago. He said, a book is a long letter
to one person. I have not forgotten that. So that's
that's my joy, actually, in writing. I do some speaking,
but that's my joy in writing, picturing just one person
who I would consider to be the target market and
(09:00):
speaking directly to them. I use a lot of second
person pronouns. you are, you and me. You'll never see
unless the editor or missed it or I missed it.
Most of you, or many of you in books that
I've written, it's it's just me and the reader. Just
the two of us.
S1 (09:16):
Yes. Yes. You know, it's really interesting you say that
because every sermon I write for my local church, I
have a person in mind. And quite often when I
am interviewing authors like yourself, I asked the question, who
did you write this to? So give me a sense.
(09:37):
Give me. Maybe it's a composite person of multiple people, but.
But who did you have in mind? What's the sweet
spot for the finish line?
S2 (09:47):
Well, I'd love to say his name. Yeah. But the
chances of him listening to this broadcast are zero. I
don't mean like, like 1 or 2. They're zero. Um.
And when I gave him his copy, I, walked it
to him so he doesn't live far from me. When
I gave it to him, I didn't say because he's
(10:09):
a very interesting man. He's just a little older than me,
and I thought I might completely freak him out to
hand him this book and say, this is a long letter.
Brace yourself to you. Here it is, 240 page hardcover book,
and it's a letter about death to you. Merry Christmas.
S1 (10:28):
Yeah, there you go.
S2 (10:31):
So that would be this guy would be the target market.
He did not grow up in the church. Um, he's
pretty cynical about life and about people. And the operative
word would not be pretty, because he's very cynical about
life and about leaders and about politics and all of that.
(10:52):
So when I would write a paragraph, Chris, I would
actually kind of look at my screen and say, what's
he going to say? This friend of mine, when he
reads this, will he understand it? My. My challenge is
not that they agree with me. My challenge is that
they would understand what I just wrote. So if I
see a quizzical look on his face just in my
(11:13):
mind's eye, then I. Then I write it again because
I want to be sure that it's as clear as
Crystal to this guy. And then actually, I got a
note from his wife, uh, because I gave them both
a copy. This is awful, but I gave them separate
copies because I wasn't sure that if one of them
got it, they would ever share it with their other
(11:34):
with their mate. So I gave them each a copy. My,
my my adage is, if you can't sell books, give
them away.
S1 (11:41):
So.
S2 (11:42):
So.
S1 (11:44):
Uh.
S2 (11:45):
So. But I did get I got a text from her.
I mean, like, this is yesterday, and she expressed great
appreciation for this book.
S1 (11:55):
So that's so good.
S2 (11:56):
You know, the target is no cliches Clear as crystal
that I can, um, communicate without reservation, uh, without judgment,
just as I would a friend. So, yeah. The target.
That's that's the target. Certainly. The the ripples go out
beyond that target. Yes. Uh, churched folks, uh, people who
(12:20):
are afraid of dying, uh, people who have good friends
who have been diagnosed with a terminal illness. There are
lots of other ripples, but the target is this guy.
And and, you know, I'm believing the Lord that at
some point I'll bump into him and he'll say, you
know what? Now I know what you've been talking about.
About the Lord, about heaven, about dying.
S1 (12:42):
So good.
S2 (12:42):
That'll be a ten on a scale of 1 to
10 for me.
S1 (12:45):
Well, let me let me just say, to add confirmation
to that profile. You probably know this, Robert, but the
studies show about 20% of those listening to a program
like this are not Christians, are not followers of Christ,
maybe questioning the whole message of Jesus, but yet something
(13:09):
is drawing you. If you're in that category to a
conversation like this, and I just want to restate what
I often say, and that is this is a safe space,
a safe place for us to talk about the most
important things of life. And maybe you have a question
that you would love to pose to Robert. Hey, I
(13:31):
am thinking about this and I'd love to process with you.
There are a couple of other groups that I think
of when I think of Finish Line. Uh, certainly folks
that are sitting in, uh, roles like mine that are
pastoring people and want to be of use and want
to be helpful as folks who you care for that
(13:53):
you have provided spiritual leadership for. You want to care
for their souls across the finish line. I consider it, Robert,
one of the greatest gifts that God has given to
be invited into a person's life as they approach the
finish line. And I will tell you that it is
(14:16):
my high goal and desire to help them to finish well.
And and I feel that way for my church family
as well. So maybe you're a pastor or church leader
that are listening to this conversation. I would highly recommend
Finish Line for you. And I just want to give
a third category of person, and that is those that
(14:39):
have been entrusted with the sacred ministry of being a caregiver,
your caregiver, and you are walking with someone who you
love deeply, just like Robert had to walk with Bobby.
And you know all too well what it means to
have a front row seat to a moment like this.
(15:00):
I think Finish Line is a book for your heart
as well. Maybe you have questions. We're going to cover
a lot of categories of questions. We're going to try
to make this conversation practical. Uh, sometimes we'll laugh. Um,
but we don't want you to be afraid. Uh, you
can dispel fear. You can find peace and prepare for
(15:22):
the end of your life. That's why Robert wrote the
book Finish Line. Find out more at our website on
how to order at Equip radio.org. We'll be right back.
Do you wish your quiet time was more meaningful? I
want to help you enjoy a daily conversation with the Lord.
(15:43):
This is why I'm offering The Quiet Time Kickstart by
Rachel Jones as this month's impact gift, with shorter scripture
passages and simple notes. This resource gently guides you into
a consistent, Rewarding time in God's Word. Request your copy today.
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(16:05):
at Equip Radio. Org. Chris Brooks here reminding you that
today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Welcome back to equip with Chris Brooks. Let me say
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(16:26):
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(16:51):
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If you don't know this, you should that Jesus is
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(17:33):
But I love what David says. Yea, though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil, for you are with me. I love
that he's with us even in the valley. And you
need a Savior like that, who you can trust in,
even in the valley. So call the number 888644 144.
(17:53):
Robert Wolgemuth is my guest today. He's talking about his
newest book, Finish Line, which I'm so grateful that he
has written. Where'd the name come from, Robert, for the book.
S2 (18:06):
Well, I just I made it up like I thought,
you know, at the end of a race when the
guys racing down the the straightaway and he comes to the,
the tape that he breaks because he's the first we
had to call that like the finish line. And I
think it's going to catch on.
S1 (18:23):
I'm kidding because.
S2 (18:25):
As you mentioned, the last book that I did is
called Gun Lap, which is not about dying. It's about
living and about finishing this last, these last laps of
your life. But then, uh, then I felt like I
had to do to finish the idea of running and
then dying and getting to the finish line.
S1 (18:46):
You know, it's really interesting. I was speaking yesterday at
church and I asked the question, what helps a college
student make it through all those tough days of studying,
missing parties, missing, hanging out. It's graduation. It's with the
picture of graduation in mind. What helps a marathon runner
make it when it's all mental? I mean, it's getting
(19:08):
to the point where your feet are hurting. Your knees,
your legs. Everything is tough. It's it's crossing that finish line. Well,
I think in many ways Jesus wants us to live
today in light of that day where he will either
return or will go to him. So with that being said,
(19:29):
how does your faith for those who maybe aren't followers
of Jesus, how does your faith inform the way you
see the finish line?
S2 (19:39):
Well, I think the Apostle Paul said it better than
I could have. First Corinthians two nine. This. Actually, Chris,
this was Bobby's favorite verse when she was diagnosed with cancer.
And I heard her quoted, I'm going to pick a
number 5000 times. I has not seen ear has not heard,
(19:59):
neither has it entered into the heart of man. The
things that God has prepared for those who love him.
So this this is graduation on steroids. You talked about
the anticipation of graduation here. You're talking about something you
can't even imagine. In fact, I tell the story of
Rick Hansen, who broke his neck as a young man
(20:19):
and decided as a paraplegic that he's going to get
in his wheelchair and he's going to go for 26,000 miles,
the equivalent of going around the earth. And he finished
in British Columbia in a stadium with 50,000 people. And just,
just imagine, just imagine this wheeling into this stadium. You
(20:41):
thought your life was over when you broke your neck. Wow.
But wheeling into this stadium to the cheers of 50,000 people,
That's that's something to look forward to. And so that
does that does impact how you feel about the whole
idea of death. That it's something to look forward to.
Like you can't even imagine. I has not seen ear
(21:03):
has not heard, neither has it entered into the heart
in my wildest dreams. I can't imagine how wonderful heaven
must be. That changes everything.
S1 (21:13):
That does it changes everything. And in many ways you
have in your subtitle a pretty bold statement dispelling fear,
finding peace. How does that help you towards this goal?
Or towards maybe even this reality of finding peace?
S2 (21:34):
Well, uh, you have the anticipation I has not seen,
but you also have the challenge that that's incumbent on
us as we approach the finish line. And that is
to take care of business. if I can say it
like that. Um, there's a whole chapter called Nuts and
Bolts about getting getting yourself ready for that moment. It's
(21:57):
going to happen. And so you you can you can
kind of happen into it. You fall into it. It's
you're the part of the 30% that is going to
die suddenly. So you won't have any time to worry
about stuff. But you need to plan. You need to
prepare as though this is going to happen to you.
S1 (22:15):
Yes, yes.
S2 (22:16):
And so that that includes some nuts and bolts kinds
of things like declutter your life. Your kids listen to me.
Your kids don't want your stuff.
S1 (22:32):
Now, what about. What about that U-Haul that I get
to take with me to heaven? What about that?
S2 (22:37):
No. Not quite. Good luck. Not even. Not even the
little guy?
S1 (22:40):
No.
S2 (22:41):
Yeah. No. So. And I also talk about secrets. Yeah.
And there's a. your listeners. Many of them will know.
I won't say the man's name, but a man who
died who everybody thought this guy is living, living the
dream in terms of ministry, in terms of writing. And
(23:03):
once he died and people began to go through his stuff,
including his family, they discovered they didn't know this guy
at all.
S1 (23:10):
A lot of stuff.
S2 (23:11):
So I challenge, I challenge the readers to to declutter,
but also to confess to, you know, while you're alive,
take care of of stuff that you need to take
care of. I, I had a very good friend who
was a designer. In fact, he did a lot of
work for Moody over the years. A guy named Kent
(23:31):
Puckett and incredibly creative man had an agency in Atlanta.
He called me. He was diagnosed pancreatic, pancreatic cancer. He
called me and he was trying to find somebody who
used to work for me, who helped design some jackets,
some book jackets, and he was desperate. He said, Where's Lori?
(23:52):
I gotta get her number. Why can't? Because I need
to confess to her. I need to ask her forgiveness
before I die. Is that is that unbelievable? Now, the
truth is, we ought to we ought to be in
that kind of mode before we are on the going
down the home stretch. But that's that's the kind of
thing that that I think we're challenged by knowing that
(24:14):
we're going to hit the finish line, and we need
to take care of certain things that we won't be
able to after we're gone.
S1 (24:21):
Kind of phone lines. Hey, uh, Tim, Tim is listening
in Chicago. Got about a minute before the break, but
I wanted to get you in. What's your comment, Tim?
S3 (24:30):
My my comment is, is I'm. I'm now 60 and
I've outlived my father. My mother and I unfortunately outlived
my my son. My oldest son died at 22. And,
and I just I just kind of just, you know,
I'm not looking forward to death, but I'm not tremendously
terrified of it either, as a believer in Christ. Watching
(24:50):
what Michael Heizer just went through, I don't know if
you all know who Michael Heizer is, but he's a
great theologian and, you know, on his deathbed and talking
to us all hours before he passed, he says, I'm
very happy. Even though he died probably 25 years younger
than we wish he would have. But he kind of
showed us all, look, we're on this. We're just on
a path and this and life is part of the
path and it's it's it's nothing really to be afraid of.
(25:13):
My mom did it. My dad did it. My son
did it. You know, my my high school sweetheart called
me on her deathbed and said, hey, you know, I
wish you know, this, that and the other thing. I mean,
there's there's some there's just some. I don't know, not
to be morbid, but I mean, it is part of
life and it is part of a path. And we're
on a path that I just think that as Christians or,
and mature people, we should say, look, this is just
(25:34):
for the next step and let's, let's, you know, let's
look forward to it.
S1 (25:38):
Well, Tim, I appreciate your, your your statement. You know,
it reminds me of the Westminster Shorter Catechism. What is
our hope in life and in death? The answer is
Jesus is our hope in life and in death we
can have hope. We're going to talk about that hope
on the other side of this break. Next up on
equip with Chris Brooks. Chris Brooks here reminding you that
(26:17):
today's program is pre-recorded. While we won't be taking calls,
we do want to connect with you on social media.
Welcome back to Equipped with Chris Brooks. Again, so grateful
for you listening in and so grateful for Robert Wolgemuth
joining me today to talk about his book Finish Line.
We're going to get back to that and your calls
(26:38):
in just a moment. But I do want to invite
Like those of you who have really enjoyed the program
to stand with us today. It is so awesome to
get a chance to bump into listeners that happens so
frequently for me. Last week I was in Kansas City
for a pastor's conference speaking there, and I got a
chance to meet a few radio listeners from West Michigan,
(27:02):
and that was such a joy. Maybe you've been listening
to the program. Just know you are a special part
of this team, and your prayers do make the difference,
because we do believe that there is the reality of
needing your prayers to make sure every day we are
ready for this program. And so thank you for your prayers.
(27:24):
Thank you also for your financial generosity. If you today
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I want to stand with you with my most generous gift.
That makes all the difference for the program being on
(27:46):
in your community and into the future. We're committed to
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And if that makes a difference in your heart, stand
with us today by dialing 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144
or go to Equip Radio.com. I want to go to
(28:09):
James who's listening in Pompano Beach, Florida. Hey James, thank
you so much for listening today. What's your question for Robert?
S4 (28:18):
Well, thank you for the show. Really. It's been enhancing
my relationship with the Lord and giving me some, uh,
on how to have that strengthened. Uh, the, the kind
of question that I have today is that I'm 70
this year and and things have really started to come
(28:40):
together with the purpose of pleasing, glorifying and expanding his kingdom.
And that's really at the basis of what if what
I do say think is not in alignment. I pray
that I have the discernment to get it back into
alignment before I, yes, you know, say or do anything.
(29:03):
And so any any suggestions to enhance that alignment.
S1 (29:07):
Robert, I think first off, what a great question from James. Uh,
what's your thoughts?
S2 (29:14):
You know what, uh, I know that you're familiar if
you're listening to Christian radio, to Colin Smith, who is
a very close friend of both Chris Brooks and mine
and Nancy. And he talks about alignment rather than balance.
This is sort of off the subject of finish line,
but it's it also can be you can feather it together,
(29:36):
balance Like, okay, so am I supposed to balance my
my spiritual life with the other part of my life? No, no.
I take what I know about Christ and I align
everything else I do to that. So I love the
word alignment. That's that is a wonderful word to use
in this context, especially so, um, and, and according to
(30:00):
the Scripture, our lives need to be aligned to the,
to the gospel, to embracing the redemption. That's, that's ours
through Christ, through the cross and the empty tomb. So
way to use that word. That's a that's a great
word to use.
S1 (30:18):
You know, I think something Robert said earlier is very
applicable here to James. I think that the closer we
get to the finish line, the more crystal clear we
want the values of our life to appear to people
and the lasting Value or message that you have to
(30:39):
your family, friends and loved ones concerning Christ. Uh, should
be as clear as as possible. Uh, and there's many
ways you can make it clear, I don't think, any
more important than, um, our conversations with people to remind
people of, uh, the fact that Christ is our most
(31:02):
prized possession. I'll tell a quick story. One of, um,
our staff members here, one of the pastors on staff
of me, um, last year, uh, was diagnosed with brain cancer. Uh,
his name is John. Such a dear man. And I
could talk for an hour about John and how great
he is. But as he was being rushed into the
(31:23):
hospital at the front end of this diagnoses, one of
the hospital attendants said, uh, sir, would you like for
us to hold your, uh, valuable possessions in a bag
for you while you go back for testing and he,
without blinking an eye, said the two most valuable possessions
I have is my wife, whose name is Linda. And, uh, secondly, uh,
(31:45):
he says my first, most valuable possession is Jesus. Second
most valuable possession is my wife, Linda. And you won't
be holding either of those for me. And I love
that response. But he knew his most valuable possession was Jesus.
Make sure the people around you know that that your
most valuable possession is Jesus. Uh, James, you stay on
(32:06):
the line. We're going to get you a copy of
Robert's book Finish Line as a way of saying thank
you for listening. Let's make this practical. If you and
your nuts and bolts kind of chapter, lay out a
blueprint for some practical tips of preparing. What are some
things you want people to do to prepare?
S2 (32:25):
Well, there are different categories. There's finance. Um, and I,
I know that you have on the Moody Network Some
wonderful people. Rob West is a very good friend, and
he's yes, he's terrific. Ronald Blue over the years, Ed
Dayton so very, very important people in in the whole
mix of getting in fact, I call your doctor, your pastor,
(32:49):
your attorney and your accountant. Your pallbearers have have them
at the ready. They need to be strong enough to
carry the box and know where to put it. Yes, yes. Uh,
so nuts and bolts. That chapter includes those kinds of things.
And it also includes preparing your funeral service. Now, I
you know, you know my wife Nancy, who.
S1 (33:12):
Yes.
S2 (33:13):
Yes, she and I are huge fans. We love you. Oh. So.
But she she got a little concerned when I said,
I'm going to put the fact that you need to
plan your funeral service in this book. And she said so, like, okay,
because I am ten years older than she is, I
will probably predecease her and she doesn't want to be
(33:33):
constricted by my plans for my funeral.
S1 (33:36):
She wants to be able.
S2 (33:37):
To speak into it. I said, honey, you can call
the audibles all you want. What I don't want, and
this is really important, I think, for your listeners, what
you don't want is once you're gone, you're. You don't
want your family, your people, your children, your grandchildren to
say the following. I wonder what Robert would want here.
S1 (33:58):
Yeah. That's good.
S2 (33:59):
So they may do a different thing, but at least
they'll know what you wanted. So I encourage I encourage
people who are reading the book to sit down and
write out their funeral. What? Who do you want to speak?
Do you want there to be music? Do you want
there to be like hymns? Which hymns are your favorites?
All that is to take the pressure off so that
(34:20):
people won't be sitting around saying, I wonder what he
would have wanted in this case. So in fact, we
bought burial plots. So as much as possible. And this
isn't just this isn't for you. You're going to be gone.
You're going to be in heaven. You're going to be dead.
This is for the people who who outlive you. And
and it's going to help them know what to do.
(34:43):
So that's that's all part of the nuts and bolts.
And I don't remember ever reading that in a book.
S1 (34:49):
Yes.
S2 (34:49):
Uh, I'm sure there is somewhere. And I read a
lot of books as I prepared for this book, but
that's a big one, in my opinion. You don't want
your loved ones to wonder what you wanted after you died.
Friends take care of that right now.
S1 (35:03):
Friends. The nuts and bolts chapter is worth the book.
Worth the price of admission. There's a lot more to
the book than just that chapter, but those those bits
of practical advice is what Robert brings to the table
in such a intimate way, such a conversational way, as
if a friend is sitting across from you and having
(35:25):
coffee with you at a table that you are sharing together.
That's what I love about Robert's heart is his style
and approach to writing his book. And it's on display
fully in finish line again. Find out more at Equip
Radio about how to order equipped radio. Um, let me
(35:46):
ask a question selfishly, from a pastoral perspective. If you
had a room full of pastors, uh, and, uh, you
had an audience of of, uh, of pastors for this conversation,
what do you want us to know?
S2 (36:02):
Um, um, give people a vision of heaven. It's so interesting,
isn't it? And this is this is not researched. You
probably have hard data because you are a pastor. But
it seems to me that that preaching on heaven and
hell has kind of fall out of fallen out of repute. Yes,
(36:25):
there's not that much about it. And so, like the
illustration I gave about Rick Hansen riding or wheeling his
wheelchair into the stadium. Um, in fact, Randy Alcorn is I.
I asked Randy if he'd endorsed the book, and I said,
you know what? If you say yes, you'll be the
only endorser in the book because nobody knows on earth
(36:47):
more about heaven and has spent more time studying heaven
than Randy Alcorn. So, but what I would say to
pastors is, be sure that you warn people about hell
and encourage people about heaven. Don't miss that. And lots
of other things to talk about in the gospel. Um,
understanding and knowing the word. All those things are critically
(37:08):
important for you as a pastor. But don't forget, don't
forget to let your people know that that heaven is
real and that hell is also real. And and they
shouldn't be surprised by either one because they've heard from
their pastor the reality of both.
S1 (37:28):
It's so good and the Bible gives us both right?
The same Bible that teaches us about God and gives
us a vision of heaven, also warns us about hell
and lets us know that we have an adversary to
our real adversary, to our soul named Satan. And so
if we are going to do a good service to
(37:50):
those that we are called to shepherd and lead, we
need to make sure that we are not silent on either.
And how often are we are we told as pastors
where the Bible speaks, we must speak. And so this
is an area. These are areas where the Bible speaks loudly.
And by the way, this is again one of the
benefits of finish line. I just think that finish line
(38:14):
takes on, uh, in, in good nuance, these, um, important
aspects of finishing. Well, and that's what I want for you.
I want you to be able to finish well because
I want to finish well myself. And as I think
about that, I don't know if there's been a handbook
(38:34):
that previous to now I've had to be able to
point people to. And Robert, the gift that you've given
to myself as a pastor, to other Christians and non-Christians
alike is a book, a handbook, if you will, to
point people to who are interested in finishing well. So
(38:55):
here's what I want to encourage you to do. I
want you to think about that person again, Christian or
non-Christian alike, that you would, uh, want to have the
conversation with that maybe because of time or distance or
whatever the impediment, um, maybe a book will serve better.
(39:15):
I would encourage, encourage you go to our website right now,
equip Radio.com, order a copy for yourself for them, and
hand it to them him as a gift. We'll be
right back. In today's rapidly changing culture, Christians need solid
biblical guidance more than ever. That's our mission here at
(39:36):
Equip to provide biblical wisdom for life's toughest questions. When
you step in as an equipper, you're not just giving
your monthly support helps to offer clarity and hope to
a confused and anxious culture, and you'll get exclusive resources
and updates from us all year long. Join our team
of monthly supporters today! Call 888644 4144 or visit Equip Radio.com.
(40:05):
Today's program has been pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open. Finish line. Dispelling fear. Finding peace and preparing
for the End of your Life. Robert Wolgemuth has written
a book and what a blessing it is. I want
(40:26):
to encourage you to get a copy and I will
say this as a pastor, some of the best books
on my shelf were not ones that I identified myself,
but were recommendations, or maybe even a gift from someone
who's a part of our local church. They said, pastor,
I think this book will help you, and I'm so
(40:47):
grateful for those folks who think of their pastors. So
maybe this is a gift you can get for a pastor.
Go to our website. Equip radio is listening in Muskegon, Michigan,
one of my favorite towns. AK thank you so much
for listening. What's your question for Robert?
S5 (41:05):
Uh, my question for Robert is, um, I'm 86 and
my son is 64, 63. And, uh, I raised him
in a liberal church and I didn't know the Bible,
and he didn't either. And he doesn't to this day,
even though I have been in BSF for 22 years.
And so I'm, I'm very anxious for to him, but
(41:30):
I don't know how to approach him. And I'm wondering
if this book would be appropriate for he and his wife.
Since they are they don't are they are not interested.
They don't. They don't even want to hear about it much,
if at all.
S1 (41:44):
Thank you so much for calling, and certainly we'll be
praying for their salvation. But, uh, Robert, what's your response?
S2 (41:53):
Well, K, thank you for your call. As Chris just said, uh, I,
I wrote this book for people just like your son
and daughter in law. Exactly. I had them in mind.
I didn't write it specifically for a church crowd or
people who are familiar with the scriptures or the truth
of the gospel. And so, like, like I would if
(42:15):
I bumped into somebody at the grocery store or the
parking lot at Home Depot and just started a conversation.
That's that's the person who who needs this book, who
I really wanted to to write this book for. So
my hope is that you would feel comfortable getting a
copy for them. And, you know, because they love you.
(42:36):
If you give them a book and say this, I
think this could be really a wonderful experience for you.
It would mean a lot to me if you would
take some time. And my goal in writing is to
capture their attention right away so they don't lay it
down and not finish it. So that's actually that's the
great challenge for people who write books. I have so
many books in my library that have a boarding pass
(42:58):
about 10% of the way in, and I never finish it.
So my goal would be that your daughter or your
son in law, your son, your daughter in law, get
a chance to read this book with it and hear
the gospel. And it's not framed that way. It doesn't say,
this is the gospel. Sit down. Be quiet. Here we go.
But they I walk you into it by virtue of stories,
(43:20):
which I think is what Jesus did.
S1 (43:22):
Yeah. Okay. One of the things we want to do
today is just to be a blessing. Your question and
even your call is such a sweet blessing to my heart.
And so here's what we want to do. You stay
on the line okay. And we're going to give you
a complimentary copy of Robert's book, because I know you're
going to pass it along. And father, we pray that
(43:43):
your hand of blessing would be upon that book and
that as Kay's son and daughter in law receive this book,
that it would be, uh, just a gift to them
and that it would introduce them to the gospel with
such gentle clarity, Lord, that it would be crystal clear.
(44:05):
The good news of Jesus. And may the fruit of
it be their salvation. We ask it in, in Jesus name,
Amen and amen. Thank you Chris. Maybe today could be
the day of salvation for someone who has been listening
to this conversation. You know, um, there's a lot of
(44:26):
guests that I have on this program, but there's one
person I want you to know more than anyone else,
and that is Jesus, the only one who died for
your sin, and who offers you the grace that your
soul needs and the mercy that your heart longs for today,
if you want to give your life to Jesus, if
you want to accept his offer of salvation and acknowledge
(44:49):
him as Lord of your life, I want to invite
you to do that. Simply call 888 him. That's eight, eight, eight.
Need him. Robert. Um, just a word for caregivers. Uh,
what would you say to those who are, uh, sojourning
walking with someone through this final stage of life?
S2 (45:10):
Um, well, consider it a gift. And I'm speaking from experience.
30 months, Bobby. Uh, from the time of her diagnosis
until the time she stepped into heaven. And because I
was physically capable of helping her, I treated it like
a gift. I mean, I really did. And that's, you know,
(45:31):
I said, you know, we had the old traditional vows
in sickness and in health till death do us part.
So I really believed that. Uh, and so I had
the privilege of sitting with her, of taking care of
things that I wouldn't have looked forward to, but because
I was serving her in a way that I had
promised to serve her. Um, I was okay with that.
(45:53):
I didn't love it, but I was okay with that.
It was a commitment that I had made. And here
I was. And here we go. So clearly, I would
encourage people who are in that role. There's there's very
little reward. There's very little tangible upside on this one. Um,
and so I would just encourage you, this is you're
doing the Lord's work. And that's a that's a cliche.
(46:17):
This time it's for sure. I mean, what did Jesus
do to prove to his disciples that he was the
creator God of the universe? He washed their feet. So
this is a this is a high calling, and we
need to treat it that way, that this is a
gift to us, to have the opportunity to serve people
who without us, wouldn't survive. So my encouragement to caregivers,
(46:41):
God bless you, I love you. Thank you on behalf
of the people in some cases who can't thank you.
Thank you for your care, your your service. Not just
to them, but to the Kingdom. God bless you.
S1 (46:53):
Well, thank you, Robert, for this gift. The book is
called Finish Line. Facing death doesn't have to be scary.
You can find peace. And Robert Wolgemuth points the way. Friends,
until we're together again next time. As always, remember equip
with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a
ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Today's program has been pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open. Well hey there friends, welcome to another exciting
edition of Equipped with Chris Brooks. I'm so grateful that
you joined me today. Can you do me a favor?
Strap on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the
contours of culture, as always, with the lens of the
(00:38):
biblical worldview on. But before we do that, let me
remind you, this is the day that the Lord has made.
He has given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice! Well, I hope you had a phenomenal
(00:58):
weekend that featured gathering together with the people of God
and the house of God to lift up the name
of God. I hope you enjoyed Great Covenant community, and
today I want us to be able to have an
intimate and really important conversation. today, I want to talk
about finishing well. Now, we've all heard how important it
(01:20):
is to finish well, whether it is finishing a project
at work or finishing a fitness goal or accomplishing an
educational aspiration. We've all heard that it's not how you start,
but how you finish. But what about crossing the finish
line of life? Well, do you have a plan for
(01:41):
that reality? You know, I think that question is a
question that we all need to be asked and to
ponder deeply. Now, you know, if you've been a veteran
of this program, that before I was a pastor, I
worked in the financial services industry, and part of my responsibility,
among others, was to talk to people about life insurance
(02:02):
and estate planning and to think about that moment of
crossing the finish line. And I have to admit, there
were many people who just didn't want to have the conversation.
Maybe they felt it was too difficult to have. But
what if I told you we didn't have to have
fear that we could have peace? When talking about crossing
(02:23):
the finish line. Well, today I want to help you
to develop a practical plan of how you want to
cross the finish line. I want you to also be
prepared spiritually as well. And I'm convinced that we who
are followers of Jesus Christ, have the best news ever
because it prepares us for life and not just life,
but to finish line and crossing over into eternal life.
(02:47):
I love what Paul writes in Romans 14 and seven,
for none of us lives to himself alone, and none
of us dies to himself alone, for none of us live, uh, ourselves,
for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
But if we live, we live as unto the Lord.
And if we die, we die as unto the Lord.
(03:08):
And so with those words, I want to invite in
a very special guest today, someone who I appreciate greatly.
Robert Wohlgemuth, who has written a wonderful book simply entitled
Finish Line, subtitled Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for
the End of Your Life. Robert joins me today. How
(03:29):
are you today, Robert?
S2 (03:31):
Oh, Chris, I've been looking forward to this man, I
I'm so excited about this time with you. Thank you.
S1 (03:37):
Well, I'm grateful for you. And I'm grateful for this project.
There's so many questions that I have, but I want
to start with how you opened the book. You opened
the book by recounting, um, Bobby's funeral. For those who
don't know, Bobby was your first wife. She passed of cancer.
(03:58):
You guys were married for almost 45 years.
S2 (04:03):
That's right.
S1 (04:03):
I don't know if you've, uh. And maybe I'm wrong.
Is this the first book that you've shared? That moment? Um, and.
S2 (04:12):
Yeah, in in this kind of detail, I bump into
it in my book Gun Lab, but I this is
the first time I really unpack all the details, including
my daughters being right there with Bobby and me in
our living room, in the hospital bed right there, plunked
in the middle of the living room in 2014.
S1 (04:31):
Yes. How does that moment and that journey with Bobby
also twice facing cancer yourself? How does all of that
play into finish line?
S2 (04:45):
Well, um, she went first. Now, obviously I've had lots
of family members and friends and so forth over the
years who have died, but not somebody to whom I'd
been married for almost 45 years. So I got a
front row seat starting in February of 2012, when she
(05:08):
was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer. So that was
30 months, Chris, of a front row seat, um, with
somebody whom I loved, somebody who bore children together. We
bore children together. Um, and just watching her reaction to it.
And Bobby was a woman of the word. So she
(05:32):
didn't fancy herself as a teacher, a gifted teacher. In fact,
she led a women's Bible study for years. They all,
of course, were on the front row at her funeral.
But she loved the word. And, uh, I think 35
times she went wall to wall in God's Word reading. Wow. Um,
each year. So she knew it. And so that that
(05:55):
prepared her. I mean, she'd do it. She did not
do that. So she'd die. Well, but that's sort of
that that sort of the byproduct, the the, the gift
that was given to her by the Lord because she
knew his word so well. Yeah. And so I and
you know, there are so many things I don't want
to chase rabbits. There are so many things that I
(06:17):
learned from her. So that, in fact, I say in
the book, I lost my fear of death. Now, did
I lose my fear of dying? Well. You know, uh, 30%
of us will die suddenly. So, like I like I say, so, uh,
(06:37):
for a man that could be his friends, hearing him say, hey,
you guys watch this. So that's that's 30% of us
will die suddenly like that, but 70% of us will
have time. Bobby had 30 months. Yeah. So, um, that's
a that's a very interesting statistic. Uh, you know, you
get a sharp pain in your chest, you go, why
(07:00):
am I part of the 30%? So are you. You
go in for a scan, which I've done quite a
bit now in the last three years.
S1 (07:06):
Sure.
S2 (07:06):
And you think, well, Lord, is this going to be
my 30 month exit ramp? So it's a very interesting thing,
but the scripture says it's appointed unto man what wants
to die?
S1 (07:17):
Yes.
S2 (07:18):
So we're all going to die?
S1 (07:20):
Yeah. You know what's really interesting, uh, Robert, is that
there are some folks who. This conversation seems to be
very naturally received because of where they're at. Maybe they've
received the diagnoses, maybe they are aging and they just
see the finish line approaching. But why should everyone pay
(07:44):
attention to this conversation? Or maybe ask a different way?
How is Finish Line, a book written with every one
of us in mind?
S2 (07:57):
Well, the huge challenge of writing you know this so
well is that people read your writing one person at
a time. Sure. So right now, you and I are
in the studio. We're talking into microphones, and we have
no idea how many thousands of people are listening. So
we can address the audience. As in most of you,
(08:18):
many of you. But when you write a book, I
picture one person. In fact, for the first few books
I wrote, Chris, I actually got a yellow post-it note
and wrote somebody's name on the on that note and
put it on my computer on the screen.
S1 (08:36):
I know exactly what you're talking.
S2 (08:38):
To that one person. I did, I wrote the whole book.
That was a little tip Tim LaHaye gave me 40
years ago. He said, a book is a long letter
to one person. I have not forgotten that. So that's
that's my joy, actually, in writing. I do some speaking,
but that's my joy in writing, picturing just one person
who I would consider to be the target market and
(09:00):
speaking directly to them. I use a lot of second
person pronouns. you are, you and me. You'll never see
unless the editor or missed it or I missed it.
Most of you, or many of you in books that
I've written, it's it's just me and the reader. Just
the two of us.
S1 (09:16):
Yes. Yes. You know, it's really interesting you say that
because every sermon I write for my local church, I
have a person in mind. And quite often when I
am interviewing authors like yourself, I asked the question, who
did you write this to? So give me a sense.
(09:37):
Give me. Maybe it's a composite person of multiple people, but.
But who did you have in mind? What's the sweet
spot for the finish line?
S2 (09:47):
Well, I'd love to say his name. Yeah. But the
chances of him listening to this broadcast are zero. I
don't mean like, like 1 or 2. They're zero. Um.
And when I gave him his copy, I, walked it
to him so he doesn't live far from me. When
I gave it to him, I didn't say because he's
(10:09):
a very interesting man. He's just a little older than me,
and I thought I might completely freak him out to
hand him this book and say, this is a long letter.
Brace yourself to you. Here it is, 240 page hardcover book,
and it's a letter about death to you. Merry Christmas.
S1 (10:28):
Yeah, there you go.
S2 (10:31):
So that would be this guy would be the target market.
He did not grow up in the church. Um, he's
pretty cynical about life and about people. And the operative
word would not be pretty, because he's very cynical about
life and about leaders and about politics and all of that.
(10:52):
So when I would write a paragraph, Chris, I would
actually kind of look at my screen and say, what's
he going to say? This friend of mine, when he
reads this, will he understand it? My. My challenge is
not that they agree with me. My challenge is that
they would understand what I just wrote. So if I
see a quizzical look on his face just in my
(11:13):
mind's eye, then I. Then I write it again because
I want to be sure that it's as clear as
Crystal to this guy. And then actually, I got a
note from his wife, uh, because I gave them both
a copy. This is awful, but I gave them separate
copies because I wasn't sure that if one of them
got it, they would ever share it with their other
(11:34):
with their mate. So I gave them each a copy. My,
my my adage is, if you can't sell books, give
them away.
S1 (11:41):
So.
S2 (11:42):
So.
S1 (11:44):
Uh.
S2 (11:45):
So. But I did get I got a text from her.
I mean, like, this is yesterday, and she expressed great
appreciation for this book.
S1 (11:55):
So that's so good.
S2 (11:56):
You know, the target is no cliches Clear as crystal
that I can, um, communicate without reservation, uh, without judgment,
just as I would a friend. So, yeah. The target.
That's that's the target. Certainly. The the ripples go out
beyond that target. Yes. Uh, churched folks, uh, people who
(12:20):
are afraid of dying, uh, people who have good friends
who have been diagnosed with a terminal illness. There are
lots of other ripples, but the target is this guy.
And and, you know, I'm believing the Lord that at
some point I'll bump into him and he'll say, you
know what? Now I know what you've been talking about.
About the Lord, about heaven, about dying.
S1 (12:42):
So good.
S2 (12:42):
That'll be a ten on a scale of 1 to
10 for me.
S1 (12:45):
Well, let me let me just say, to add confirmation
to that profile. You probably know this, Robert, but the
studies show about 20% of those listening to a program
like this are not Christians, are not followers of Christ,
maybe questioning the whole message of Jesus, but yet something
(13:09):
is drawing you. If you're in that category to a
conversation like this, and I just want to restate what
I often say, and that is this is a safe space,
a safe place for us to talk about the most
important things of life. And maybe you have a question
that you would love to pose to Robert. Hey, I
(13:31):
am thinking about this and I'd love to process with you.
There are a couple of other groups that I think
of when I think of Finish Line. Uh, certainly folks
that are sitting in, uh, roles like mine that are
pastoring people and want to be of use and want
to be helpful as folks who you care for that
(13:53):
you have provided spiritual leadership for. You want to care
for their souls across the finish line. I consider it, Robert,
one of the greatest gifts that God has given to
be invited into a person's life as they approach the
finish line. And I will tell you that it is
(14:16):
my high goal and desire to help them to finish well.
And and I feel that way for my church family
as well. So maybe you're a pastor or church leader
that are listening to this conversation. I would highly recommend
Finish Line for you. And I just want to give
a third category of person, and that is those that
(14:39):
have been entrusted with the sacred ministry of being a caregiver,
your caregiver, and you are walking with someone who you
love deeply, just like Robert had to walk with Bobby.
And you know all too well what it means to
have a front row seat to a moment like this.
(15:00):
I think Finish Line is a book for your heart
as well. Maybe you have questions. We're going to cover
a lot of categories of questions. We're going to try
to make this conversation practical. Uh, sometimes we'll laugh. Um,
but we don't want you to be afraid. Uh, you
can dispel fear. You can find peace and prepare for
(15:22):
the end of your life. That's why Robert wrote the
book Finish Line. Find out more at our website on
how to order at Equip radio.org. We'll be right back.
Do you wish your quiet time was more meaningful? I
want to help you enjoy a daily conversation with the Lord.
(15:43):
This is why I'm offering The Quiet Time Kickstart by
Rachel Jones as this month's impact gift, with shorter scripture
passages and simple notes. This resource gently guides you into
a consistent, Rewarding time in God's Word. Request your copy today.
When you support equip, call 888644 4144 or give online
(16:05):
at Equip Radio. Org. Chris Brooks here reminding you that
today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Welcome back to equip with Chris Brooks. Let me say
thank you to all of our partners who stand with
(16:26):
us prayerfully and financially. You guys are awesome. We couldn't
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So thank you for partnering with us. It is told
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(16:51):
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That's pretty easy. Go to equip Radio.com or equip Radio.com.
(17:12):
You can find out how to give there. Or you
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If you don't know this, you should that Jesus is
not just a friend for the mountaintop moments of our life.
(17:33):
But I love what David says. Yea, though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, I will
fear no evil, for you are with me. I love
that he's with us even in the valley. And you
need a Savior like that, who you can trust in,
even in the valley. So call the number 888644 144.
(17:53):
Robert Wolgemuth is my guest today. He's talking about his
newest book, Finish Line, which I'm so grateful that he
has written. Where'd the name come from, Robert, for the book.
S2 (18:06):
Well, I just I made it up like I thought,
you know, at the end of a race when the
guys racing down the the straightaway and he comes to the,
the tape that he breaks because he's the first we
had to call that like the finish line. And I
think it's going to catch on.
S1 (18:23):
I'm kidding because.
S2 (18:25):
As you mentioned, the last book that I did is
called Gun Lap, which is not about dying. It's about
living and about finishing this last, these last laps of
your life. But then, uh, then I felt like I
had to do to finish the idea of running and
then dying and getting to the finish line.
S1 (18:46):
You know, it's really interesting. I was speaking yesterday at
church and I asked the question, what helps a college
student make it through all those tough days of studying,
missing parties, missing, hanging out. It's graduation. It's with the
picture of graduation in mind. What helps a marathon runner
make it when it's all mental? I mean, it's getting
(19:08):
to the point where your feet are hurting. Your knees,
your legs. Everything is tough. It's it's crossing that finish line. Well,
I think in many ways Jesus wants us to live
today in light of that day where he will either
return or will go to him. So with that being said,
(19:29):
how does your faith for those who maybe aren't followers
of Jesus, how does your faith inform the way you
see the finish line?
S2 (19:39):
Well, I think the Apostle Paul said it better than
I could have. First Corinthians two nine. This. Actually, Chris,
this was Bobby's favorite verse when she was diagnosed with cancer.
And I heard her quoted, I'm going to pick a
number 5000 times. I has not seen ear has not heard,
(19:59):
neither has it entered into the heart of man. The
things that God has prepared for those who love him.
So this this is graduation on steroids. You talked about
the anticipation of graduation here. You're talking about something you
can't even imagine. In fact, I tell the story of
Rick Hansen, who broke his neck as a young man
(20:19):
and decided as a paraplegic that he's going to get
in his wheelchair and he's going to go for 26,000 miles,
the equivalent of going around the earth. And he finished
in British Columbia in a stadium with 50,000 people. And just,
just imagine, just imagine this wheeling into this stadium. You
(20:41):
thought your life was over when you broke your neck. Wow.
But wheeling into this stadium to the cheers of 50,000 people,
That's that's something to look forward to. And so that
does that does impact how you feel about the whole
idea of death. That it's something to look forward to.
Like you can't even imagine. I has not seen ear
(21:03):
has not heard, neither has it entered into the heart
in my wildest dreams. I can't imagine how wonderful heaven
must be. That changes everything.
S1 (21:13):
That does it changes everything. And in many ways you
have in your subtitle a pretty bold statement dispelling fear,
finding peace. How does that help you towards this goal?
Or towards maybe even this reality of finding peace?
S2 (21:34):
Well, uh, you have the anticipation I has not seen,
but you also have the challenge that that's incumbent on
us as we approach the finish line. And that is
to take care of business. if I can say it
like that. Um, there's a whole chapter called Nuts and
Bolts about getting getting yourself ready for that moment. It's
(21:57):
going to happen. And so you you can you can
kind of happen into it. You fall into it. It's
you're the part of the 30% that is going to
die suddenly. So you won't have any time to worry
about stuff. But you need to plan. You need to
prepare as though this is going to happen to you.
S1 (22:15):
Yes, yes.
S2 (22:16):
And so that that includes some nuts and bolts kinds
of things like declutter your life. Your kids listen to me.
Your kids don't want your stuff.
S1 (22:32):
Now, what about. What about that U-Haul that I get
to take with me to heaven? What about that?
S2 (22:37):
No. Not quite. Good luck. Not even. Not even the
little guy?
S1 (22:40):
No.
S2 (22:41):
Yeah. No. So. And I also talk about secrets. Yeah.
And there's a. your listeners. Many of them will know.
I won't say the man's name, but a man who
died who everybody thought this guy is living, living the
dream in terms of ministry, in terms of writing. And
(23:03):
once he died and people began to go through his stuff,
including his family, they discovered they didn't know this guy
at all.
S1 (23:10):
A lot of stuff.
S2 (23:11):
So I challenge, I challenge the readers to to declutter,
but also to confess to, you know, while you're alive,
take care of of stuff that you need to take
care of. I, I had a very good friend who
was a designer. In fact, he did a lot of
work for Moody over the years. A guy named Kent
(23:31):
Puckett and incredibly creative man had an agency in Atlanta.
He called me. He was diagnosed pancreatic, pancreatic cancer. He
called me and he was trying to find somebody who
used to work for me, who helped design some jackets,
some book jackets, and he was desperate. He said, Where's Lori?
(23:52):
I gotta get her number. Why can't? Because I need
to confess to her. I need to ask her forgiveness
before I die. Is that is that unbelievable? Now, the
truth is, we ought to we ought to be in
that kind of mode before we are on the going
down the home stretch. But that's that's the kind of
thing that that I think we're challenged by knowing that
(24:14):
we're going to hit the finish line, and we need
to take care of certain things that we won't be
able to after we're gone.
S1 (24:21):
Kind of phone lines. Hey, uh, Tim, Tim is listening
in Chicago. Got about a minute before the break, but
I wanted to get you in. What's your comment, Tim?
S3 (24:30):
My my comment is, is I'm. I'm now 60 and
I've outlived my father. My mother and I unfortunately outlived
my my son. My oldest son died at 22. And,
and I just I just kind of just, you know,
I'm not looking forward to death, but I'm not tremendously
terrified of it either, as a believer in Christ. Watching
(24:50):
what Michael Heizer just went through, I don't know if
you all know who Michael Heizer is, but he's a
great theologian and, you know, on his deathbed and talking
to us all hours before he passed, he says, I'm
very happy. Even though he died probably 25 years younger
than we wish he would have. But he kind of
showed us all, look, we're on this. We're just on
a path and this and life is part of the
path and it's it's it's nothing really to be afraid of.
(25:13):
My mom did it. My dad did it. My son
did it. You know, my my high school sweetheart called
me on her deathbed and said, hey, you know, I
wish you know, this, that and the other thing. I mean,
there's there's some there's just some. I don't know, not
to be morbid, but I mean, it is part of
life and it is part of a path. And we're
on a path that I just think that as Christians or,
and mature people, we should say, look, this is just
(25:34):
for the next step and let's, let's, you know, let's
look forward to it.
S1 (25:38):
Well, Tim, I appreciate your, your your statement. You know,
it reminds me of the Westminster Shorter Catechism. What is
our hope in life and in death? The answer is
Jesus is our hope in life and in death we
can have hope. We're going to talk about that hope
on the other side of this break. Next up on
equip with Chris Brooks. Chris Brooks here reminding you that
(26:17):
today's program is pre-recorded. While we won't be taking calls,
we do want to connect with you on social media.
Welcome back to Equipped with Chris Brooks. Again, so grateful
for you listening in and so grateful for Robert Wolgemuth
joining me today to talk about his book Finish Line.
We're going to get back to that and your calls
(26:38):
in just a moment. But I do want to invite
Like those of you who have really enjoyed the program
to stand with us today. It is so awesome to
get a chance to bump into listeners that happens so
frequently for me. Last week I was in Kansas City
for a pastor's conference speaking there, and I got a
chance to meet a few radio listeners from West Michigan,
(27:02):
and that was such a joy. Maybe you've been listening
to the program. Just know you are a special part
of this team, and your prayers do make the difference,
because we do believe that there is the reality of
needing your prayers to make sure every day we are
ready for this program. And so thank you for your prayers.
(27:24):
Thank you also for your financial generosity. If you today
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would be awesome. It would be great to get some
friends who could rally around the program, especially today, to say,
I want to stand with you with my most generous gift.
That makes all the difference for the program being on
(27:46):
in your community and into the future. We're committed to
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And if that makes a difference in your heart, stand
with us today by dialing 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144
or go to Equip Radio.com. I want to go to
(28:09):
James who's listening in Pompano Beach, Florida. Hey James, thank
you so much for listening today. What's your question for Robert?
S4 (28:18):
Well, thank you for the show. Really. It's been enhancing
my relationship with the Lord and giving me some, uh,
on how to have that strengthened. Uh, the, the kind
of question that I have today is that I'm 70
this year and and things have really started to come
(28:40):
together with the purpose of pleasing, glorifying and expanding his kingdom.
And that's really at the basis of what if what
I do say think is not in alignment. I pray
that I have the discernment to get it back into
alignment before I, yes, you know, say or do anything.
(29:03):
And so any any suggestions to enhance that alignment.
S1 (29:07):
Robert, I think first off, what a great question from James. Uh,
what's your thoughts?
S2 (29:14):
You know what, uh, I know that you're familiar if
you're listening to Christian radio, to Colin Smith, who is
a very close friend of both Chris Brooks and mine
and Nancy. And he talks about alignment rather than balance.
This is sort of off the subject of finish line,
but it's it also can be you can feather it together,
(29:36):
balance Like, okay, so am I supposed to balance my
my spiritual life with the other part of my life? No, no.
I take what I know about Christ and I align
everything else I do to that. So I love the
word alignment. That's that is a wonderful word to use
in this context, especially so, um, and, and according to
(30:00):
the Scripture, our lives need to be aligned to the,
to the gospel, to embracing the redemption. That's, that's ours
through Christ, through the cross and the empty tomb. So
way to use that word. That's a that's a great
word to use.
S1 (30:18):
You know, I think something Robert said earlier is very
applicable here to James. I think that the closer we
get to the finish line, the more crystal clear we
want the values of our life to appear to people
and the lasting Value or message that you have to
(30:39):
your family, friends and loved ones concerning Christ. Uh, should
be as clear as as possible. Uh, and there's many
ways you can make it clear, I don't think, any
more important than, um, our conversations with people to remind
people of, uh, the fact that Christ is our most
(31:02):
prized possession. I'll tell a quick story. One of, um,
our staff members here, one of the pastors on staff
of me, um, last year, uh, was diagnosed with brain cancer. Uh,
his name is John. Such a dear man. And I
could talk for an hour about John and how great
he is. But as he was being rushed into the
(31:23):
hospital at the front end of this diagnoses, one of
the hospital attendants said, uh, sir, would you like for
us to hold your, uh, valuable possessions in a bag
for you while you go back for testing and he,
without blinking an eye, said the two most valuable possessions
I have is my wife, whose name is Linda. And, uh, secondly, uh,
(31:45):
he says my first, most valuable possession is Jesus. Second
most valuable possession is my wife, Linda. And you won't
be holding either of those for me. And I love
that response. But he knew his most valuable possession was Jesus.
Make sure the people around you know that that your
most valuable possession is Jesus. Uh, James, you stay on
(32:06):
the line. We're going to get you a copy of
Robert's book Finish Line as a way of saying thank
you for listening. Let's make this practical. If you and
your nuts and bolts kind of chapter, lay out a
blueprint for some practical tips of preparing. What are some
things you want people to do to prepare?
S2 (32:25):
Well, there are different categories. There's finance. Um, and I,
I know that you have on the Moody Network Some
wonderful people. Rob West is a very good friend, and
he's yes, he's terrific. Ronald Blue over the years, Ed
Dayton so very, very important people in in the whole
mix of getting in fact, I call your doctor, your pastor,
(32:49):
your attorney and your accountant. Your pallbearers have have them
at the ready. They need to be strong enough to
carry the box and know where to put it. Yes, yes. Uh,
so nuts and bolts. That chapter includes those kinds of things.
And it also includes preparing your funeral service. Now, I
you know, you know my wife Nancy, who.
S1 (33:12):
Yes.
S2 (33:13):
Yes, she and I are huge fans. We love you. Oh. So.
But she she got a little concerned when I said,
I'm going to put the fact that you need to
plan your funeral service in this book. And she said so, like, okay,
because I am ten years older than she is, I
will probably predecease her and she doesn't want to be
(33:33):
constricted by my plans for my funeral.
S1 (33:36):
She wants to be able.
S2 (33:37):
To speak into it. I said, honey, you can call
the audibles all you want. What I don't want, and
this is really important, I think, for your listeners, what
you don't want is once you're gone, you're. You don't
want your family, your people, your children, your grandchildren to
say the following. I wonder what Robert would want here.
S1 (33:58):
Yeah. That's good.
S2 (33:59):
So they may do a different thing, but at least
they'll know what you wanted. So I encourage I encourage
people who are reading the book to sit down and
write out their funeral. What? Who do you want to speak?
Do you want there to be music? Do you want
there to be like hymns? Which hymns are your favorites?
All that is to take the pressure off so that
(34:20):
people won't be sitting around saying, I wonder what he
would have wanted in this case. So in fact, we
bought burial plots. So as much as possible. And this
isn't just this isn't for you. You're going to be gone.
You're going to be in heaven. You're going to be dead.
This is for the people who who outlive you. And
and it's going to help them know what to do.
(34:43):
So that's that's all part of the nuts and bolts.
And I don't remember ever reading that in a book.
S1 (34:49):
Yes.
S2 (34:49):
Uh, I'm sure there is somewhere. And I read a
lot of books as I prepared for this book, but
that's a big one, in my opinion. You don't want
your loved ones to wonder what you wanted after you died.
Friends take care of that right now.
S1 (35:03):
Friends. The nuts and bolts chapter is worth the book.
Worth the price of admission. There's a lot more to
the book than just that chapter, but those those bits
of practical advice is what Robert brings to the table
in such a intimate way, such a conversational way, as
if a friend is sitting across from you and having
(35:25):
coffee with you at a table that you are sharing together.
That's what I love about Robert's heart is his style
and approach to writing his book. And it's on display
fully in finish line again. Find out more at Equip
Radio about how to order equipped radio. Um, let me
(35:46):
ask a question selfishly, from a pastoral perspective. If you
had a room full of pastors, uh, and, uh, you
had an audience of of, uh, of pastors for this conversation,
what do you want us to know?
S2 (36:02):
Um, um, give people a vision of heaven. It's so interesting,
isn't it? And this is this is not researched. You
probably have hard data because you are a pastor. But
it seems to me that that preaching on heaven and
hell has kind of fall out of fallen out of repute. Yes,
(36:25):
there's not that much about it. And so, like the
illustration I gave about Rick Hansen riding or wheeling his
wheelchair into the stadium. Um, in fact, Randy Alcorn is I.
I asked Randy if he'd endorsed the book, and I said,
you know what? If you say yes, you'll be the
only endorser in the book because nobody knows on earth
(36:47):
more about heaven and has spent more time studying heaven
than Randy Alcorn. So, but what I would say to
pastors is, be sure that you warn people about hell
and encourage people about heaven. Don't miss that. And lots
of other things to talk about in the gospel. Um,
understanding and knowing the word. All those things are critically
(37:08):
important for you as a pastor. But don't forget, don't
forget to let your people know that that heaven is
real and that hell is also real. And and they
shouldn't be surprised by either one because they've heard from
their pastor the reality of both.
S1 (37:28):
It's so good and the Bible gives us both right?
The same Bible that teaches us about God and gives
us a vision of heaven, also warns us about hell
and lets us know that we have an adversary to
our real adversary, to our soul named Satan. And so
if we are going to do a good service to
(37:50):
those that we are called to shepherd and lead, we
need to make sure that we are not silent on either.
And how often are we are we told as pastors
where the Bible speaks, we must speak. And so this
is an area. These are areas where the Bible speaks loudly.
And by the way, this is again one of the
benefits of finish line. I just think that finish line
(38:14):
takes on, uh, in, in good nuance, these, um, important
aspects of finishing. Well, and that's what I want for you.
I want you to be able to finish well because
I want to finish well myself. And as I think
about that, I don't know if there's been a handbook
(38:34):
that previous to now I've had to be able to
point people to. And Robert, the gift that you've given
to myself as a pastor, to other Christians and non-Christians
alike is a book, a handbook, if you will, to
point people to who are interested in finishing well. So
(38:55):
here's what I want to encourage you to do. I
want you to think about that person again, Christian or
non-Christian alike, that you would, uh, want to have the
conversation with that maybe because of time or distance or
whatever the impediment, um, maybe a book will serve better.
(39:15):
I would encourage, encourage you go to our website right now,
equip Radio.com, order a copy for yourself for them, and
hand it to them him as a gift. We'll be
right back. In today's rapidly changing culture, Christians need solid
biblical guidance more than ever. That's our mission here at
(39:36):
Equip to provide biblical wisdom for life's toughest questions. When
you step in as an equipper, you're not just giving
your monthly support helps to offer clarity and hope to
a confused and anxious culture, and you'll get exclusive resources
and updates from us all year long. Join our team
of monthly supporters today! Call 888644 4144 or visit Equip Radio.com.
(40:05):
Today's program has been pre-recorded so our phone lines are
not open. Finish line. Dispelling fear. Finding peace and preparing
for the End of your Life. Robert Wolgemuth has written
a book and what a blessing it is. I want
(40:26):
to encourage you to get a copy and I will
say this as a pastor, some of the best books
on my shelf were not ones that I identified myself,
but were recommendations, or maybe even a gift from someone
who's a part of our local church. They said, pastor,
I think this book will help you, and I'm so
(40:47):
grateful for those folks who think of their pastors. So
maybe this is a gift you can get for a pastor.
Go to our website. Equip radio is listening in Muskegon, Michigan,
one of my favorite towns. AK thank you so much
for listening. What's your question for Robert?
S5 (41:05):
Uh, my question for Robert is, um, I'm 86 and
my son is 64, 63. And, uh, I raised him
in a liberal church and I didn't know the Bible,
and he didn't either. And he doesn't to this day,
even though I have been in BSF for 22 years.
And so I'm, I'm very anxious for to him, but
(41:30):
I don't know how to approach him. And I'm wondering
if this book would be appropriate for he and his wife.
Since they are they don't are they are not interested.
They don't. They don't even want to hear about it much,
if at all.
S1 (41:44):
Thank you so much for calling, and certainly we'll be
praying for their salvation. But, uh, Robert, what's your response?
S2 (41:53):
Well, K, thank you for your call. As Chris just said, uh, I,
I wrote this book for people just like your son
and daughter in law. Exactly. I had them in mind.
I didn't write it specifically for a church crowd or
people who are familiar with the scriptures or the truth
of the gospel. And so, like, like I would if
(42:15):
I bumped into somebody at the grocery store or the
parking lot at Home Depot and just started a conversation.
That's that's the person who who needs this book, who
I really wanted to to write this book for. So
my hope is that you would feel comfortable getting a
copy for them. And, you know, because they love you.
(42:36):
If you give them a book and say this, I
think this could be really a wonderful experience for you.
It would mean a lot to me if you would
take some time. And my goal in writing is to
capture their attention right away so they don't lay it
down and not finish it. So that's actually that's the
great challenge for people who write books. I have so
many books in my library that have a boarding pass
(42:58):
about 10% of the way in, and I never finish it.
So my goal would be that your daughter or your
son in law, your son, your daughter in law, get
a chance to read this book with it and hear
the gospel. And it's not framed that way. It doesn't say,
this is the gospel. Sit down. Be quiet. Here we go.
But they I walk you into it by virtue of stories,
(43:20):
which I think is what Jesus did.
S1 (43:22):
Yeah. Okay. One of the things we want to do
today is just to be a blessing. Your question and
even your call is such a sweet blessing to my heart.
And so here's what we want to do. You stay
on the line okay. And we're going to give you
a complimentary copy of Robert's book, because I know you're
going to pass it along. And father, we pray that
(43:43):
your hand of blessing would be upon that book and
that as Kay's son and daughter in law receive this book,
that it would be, uh, just a gift to them
and that it would introduce them to the gospel with
such gentle clarity, Lord, that it would be crystal clear.
(44:05):
The good news of Jesus. And may the fruit of
it be their salvation. We ask it in, in Jesus name,
Amen and amen. Thank you Chris. Maybe today could be
the day of salvation for someone who has been listening
to this conversation. You know, um, there's a lot of
(44:26):
guests that I have on this program, but there's one
person I want you to know more than anyone else,
and that is Jesus, the only one who died for
your sin, and who offers you the grace that your
soul needs and the mercy that your heart longs for today,
if you want to give your life to Jesus, if
you want to accept his offer of salvation and acknowledge
(44:49):
him as Lord of your life, I want to invite
you to do that. Simply call 888 him. That's eight, eight, eight.
Need him. Robert. Um, just a word for caregivers. Uh,
what would you say to those who are, uh, sojourning
walking with someone through this final stage of life?
S2 (45:10):
Um, well, consider it a gift. And I'm speaking from experience.
30 months, Bobby. Uh, from the time of her diagnosis
until the time she stepped into heaven. And because I
was physically capable of helping her, I treated it like
a gift. I mean, I really did. And that's, you know,
(45:31):
I said, you know, we had the old traditional vows
in sickness and in health till death do us part.
So I really believed that. Uh, and so I had
the privilege of sitting with her, of taking care of
things that I wouldn't have looked forward to, but because
I was serving her in a way that I had
promised to serve her. Um, I was okay with that.
(45:53):
I didn't love it, but I was okay with that.
It was a commitment that I had made. And here
I was. And here we go. So clearly, I would
encourage people who are in that role. There's there's very
little reward. There's very little tangible upside on this one. Um,
and so I would just encourage you, this is you're
doing the Lord's work. And that's a that's a cliche.
(46:17):
This time it's for sure. I mean, what did Jesus
do to prove to his disciples that he was the
creator God of the universe? He washed their feet. So
this is a this is a high calling, and we
need to treat it that way, that this is a
gift to us, to have the opportunity to serve people
who without us, wouldn't survive. So my encouragement to caregivers,
(46:41):
God bless you, I love you. Thank you on behalf
of the people in some cases who can't thank you.
Thank you for your care, your your service. Not just
to them, but to the Kingdom. God bless you.
S1 (46:53):
Well, thank you, Robert, for this gift. The book is
called Finish Line. Facing death doesn't have to be scary.
You can find peace. And Robert Wolgemuth points the way. Friends,
until we're together again next time. As always, remember equip
with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a
ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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