July 14, 2025 • 47 mins
Chris Brooks delves into a topic that has inspired and devastated humans from the beginning of time – LOVE. Popular author, speaker, and podcast host Jared C. Wilson joins Chris to unpack our longing for unconditional love and help us find the love of the only One who can fulfill that desire. Learn what it means to truly love and to be loved on Equipped!
Featured resource:
Love Me Anyway: How God's Perfect Love Fills Our Deepest Longing by Jared C. Wilson
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Surrendered Sexuality by Dr. Juli Slattery
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:15):
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of equip
with Chris Brooks. I am absolutely thrilled that you've joined
us today. Can you do me a favor? Strap on
your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the contours of culture,
as always, with the lens of the biblical worldview on.
(00:36):
But before we do that, let me remind you, this
is the day that the Lord has made. He has
given it as a gift so that you and I
can rejoice and be glad in it. So let's do
just that. Let's follow the words of the Apostle Paul.
Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again I say rejoice.
And with that, I welcome you into a Monday edition
of equip. We're going to be live today interactive, and
(00:59):
I hope that you'll join the conversation at 8775675. That's
877548 3675. Well, when I say the word love, what
comes to your mind? There are so many love songs.
There's so many poems written about love. There's so much
to be said about the concept of all of our
(01:20):
need for love. But what does it reflect? It reflects
the fact that we are wired for something more, something
more than what this world has to offer. And today
we're going to talk about why we as a generation
are so love starved. So many sociologists will say that
that starvation of love shows up in many different ways,
(01:43):
from social media to technology to the sins that we
are so plagued by in our generation. But today, I
get a chance to feature a book that I'm really
excited about. Jared Wilson has written a new book called
Love Me Anyway, and it talks about how God's perfect
love fills our deepest longing. If today your soul is
(02:07):
so desperately desiring love, I know mine is and probably
true for all of us. Most certainly, this is what
the Bible would speak to. Today, I want you to
know that there's hope for our souls and the longing
for love in Christ. Who? Who is Jared Wilson? Well,
he's a busy man. He's an assistant professor of pastoral
(02:29):
ministry at Spurgeon College. He's author in residence at Midwestern Seminary.
He's also the director of pastoral training Center at Liberty
Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri. He is also the
loving husband of Becky and the father of two beautiful daughters.
And he joins me today. Jared, how are you, brother?
S2 (02:50):
I'm doing great. It's wonderful to be with you again, Chris.
Thanks so much.
S1 (02:54):
It is great to have you on as well. Listen,
I told you that I was going to ask this question.
So you're not shocked by it. Why are there so
many love songs, man?
S2 (03:06):
Well, I'd love to hear your answer. Why do you
think there's so many love songs?
S1 (03:10):
I don't know, but I do know this. I got
a teenage daughter and stuff that didn't bother me before.
It bothers me deeply now, and I do think there
are way too many love songs. So what is it?
What does that show you? What does that reveal about us?
S2 (03:27):
Yeah, you know, the because of that, you probably noticed
I patterned my book, uh, According to Love Songs. So
every chapter. So if you're sick of love songs, please
don't read the chapter titles of my book or the subheadings,
because every title and subhead is a is the name
(03:49):
of a love song.
S1 (03:50):
Well, I think you've redeemed it. I think that's what
you're doing. Okay. I think you've redeemed it.
S2 (03:54):
Yeah, well, there's so there's a reason for it beyond
just that, you know, beyond just that it's about love. Um.
It's because so this is my answer to the question,
I think, um, Bruce Marshall, in one of his novels,
wrote that the young man knocking on the door of
the brothel is subconsciously looking for God. And we might say, gosh,
(04:18):
the young man who's doing that is looking for love
in all the wrong places, right? To use another love
song title, he's he's he's searching for something that, you know, um,
in a sinful way that that can't satisfy him. I
think all the love songs that we've had throughout history, uh, on,
on one part, are about our search for, um, someone
(04:41):
to accept us and approve of us, to know the
mess that we are, to know the sinner that we are.
And to still embrace us, to still love us. But
it's also like love songs are just in our DNA.
The very first recorded words that we have in history
from a human being is Adam in Genesis chapter two.
(05:05):
Seeing Eve for the first time and you'll notice in
most Bible translations. What he says is formatted as Hebrew poetry.
It's a love song, he says at last, one of
my bones, flesh of my flesh. You can almost hear
Etta James kind of over the soundtrack like that.
S1 (05:23):
That's right. That's right.
S2 (05:26):
So the first recorded human words were a love song,
and we've been singing love songs ever since.
S1 (05:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and I'm giving you a hard time.
But I will say this. Whether there are teenage dads
of teenagers out there that can resonate with my thoughts
here or lovers of Scripture, what we do know to
be true is that all of us are longing to
be loved, to experience deep love, a love that in
(05:54):
some ways goes beyond what we deserve. We all are
longing for that. But yet, am I right in saying
that this generation is properly defined as love starved?
S2 (06:08):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it's any different
than any other generation, but certainly we have new ways
of expressing that and new innovations, social media and internet connection,
which I think gives us the illusion of love or connection,
at least relationality in ways that previous generations did not have.
(06:29):
So we have more avenues by which to try to
get this love or experience what we think might be love,
or a feeling that that might approximate love. So certainly
maybe that exacerbates that, that appetite, the desire that we
have inside of us.
S1 (06:47):
Yeah. You say this, what if and I'm going to
just abbreviate a little bit here. You say, what if
every romantic movie, every romantic song, every Hallmark Christmas show,
every Hallmark Valentine's Day card, you think about all of
those is simply leveraging Romance and human fulfillment. And and
(07:10):
I think that so many of these do point to
something deeper within us. But I think that what all
of us fear is that somehow because of our flaws
and our fallenness, our failings, uh, because of everything that
we know to be weakness within us, that we won't
be loved and into that vacuum of love steps. The
(07:34):
words of First Corinthians 13 talk about what first Corinthians
13 speaks to you.
S2 (07:43):
Well, what's really radical about that passage is that, um,
we use it in so many different ways, framed in
a kind of romantic love. So just as an example. Right.
It's first Corinthians 13 is to weddings. What amazing grace
is to funerals, right?
S1 (08:00):
It's yes.
S2 (08:01):
Yes. If there's, you know, any wedding even involving unbelievers,
if they want any kind of whiff of religion, um,
in it, some semblance of religion or tradition in it,
and there's going to be a Bible reading. It's going
to be First Corinthians 13. It may be the most
famous passage of Scripture that people know is, you know,
(08:22):
passage of Scripture, perhaps, you know, um, you know, next
to isolated, you know, sayings from the sermon on the
Mount or something like that. And what's really fascinating about
it is we read that chapter and frame it as
a kind of romantic, sentimental, um, vision of love, when
(08:44):
really what Paul is calling us to in the chapter
is so self-denying and self self, you know, self crucifying.
He he he says love isn't self-seeking. He says that
love doesn't keep a record of wrongs. These are things
that we don't often equate with love because we think
of love as, as, you know, ideally as a self-fulfillment
(09:05):
about getting some sort of adoration or affection.
S1 (09:12):
You know, Jared, when I when I think about what
you have written in these pages, uh, I think about
how the church would do well to develop a theology
of love, because love is the penultimate question. I think
of every generation. It is the question and the longing
of the human heart from creation to consummation. It is
(09:36):
ultimately the love feast that we're looking forward to, that
we're longing for. But for those who maybe have not
picked up the book yet, what is your hope? Why
did you write the book? What are you hoping for
and who did you write it for?
S2 (09:53):
Yeah, so the book covers a variety of kinds of love.
I talk about not just romantic love. That's an obvious
angle to take, of course, but. But also friendship and
just our own experience, um, you know, spiritually with God
and our experiences in the church and things like that
as well. I wrote it for anyone who has ever,
(10:15):
you know, laid awake at night staring at the ceiling,
whether there's a spouse next to him or not, and wondered,
could I actually be loved? Could could God really love me?
Will I ever know love? Will I ever feel love?
Anyone who's ever wrestled with that idea or just longed
to be totally known and at the same time totally loved.
(10:37):
Because that's really what we want. That's why I called
the book Love Me Anyway. We we all want to
be loved, but really what we want is to be
loved anyway. That somebody could see the mess of us
and not look away. That's who I wrote the book for.
S1 (10:52):
Yeah. And this is a reflection. And that we live
in a broken and fallen world. And today we're going
to talk about that. Maybe you know what it is
to be rejected in love. Of. Maybe you are living
today with a heart that is broken, not just because
of a longing for a spouse, but maybe it's just
the child that you have that for some reason there
(11:15):
seems to be a breach of relationship. Maybe it's the
lack of love that you have not experienced within the
body of Christ, the church. We're going to talk about
that as well, uh, today. Uh, I believe God wants
to heal hearts that are deeply longing for love and
maybe have have not experienced it. There is a love
(11:40):
that overlooks our flaws, a love that is filled with
a grace in spite of our failings, that is able
to love us anyway. And that's what Jared has written
about Jared C Wilson. The book is entitled Love Me
Anyway How God's Perfect Love Fills Our Deepest Longings. I
(12:01):
love to take your calls at eight, 775, six, seven, five.
That's eight seven, seven five, four eight, 36, 75. And
we come back, we're going to ask the question. And
you knew we were going to do this. What's love
got to do with it? That's right. We're going to
ask that question. And I believe that Jared's going to
help us to ground our answer in the beautiful words
(12:23):
of the gospel. Don't go anywhere. Much more to come.
Next up on equipped with Chris Brooks. Do you have
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Whether it's sexual sin, gender confusion, or issues in your marriage?
(12:46):
Surrender Sexuality by Doctor Julie Slattery has insights you need.
She'll help you to see that God wants to be
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To equip, simply call 888644 4144 or visit Equip radio.org.
(13:12):
Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded.
While we won't be taking calls, we do want to
connect with you on social media. Phone number is 8775675.
That's 877548 3675. I would love for you to give
(13:32):
us a call. Join us today. We're talking about love
with Jared Wilson. He's written a new book entitled Love
Me Anyway. You can find out more at our website, npr.org.
That's radio.org. I'll take your calls in just a minute.
But Jared, I, you know, was reading your book and, uh,
(13:52):
thinking about Jeremiah chapter six and Jeremiah chapter six. God, uh,
Criticizes Israel. Brings a charge against Israel that they forgot
how to blush as a people. They forgot collectively how
to blush. You say this in your book that we
don't speak of love in lovely ways anymore, that our
(14:15):
way of speaking about love has become more crude, more
rude and less poetic. It's a lament that's in your book,
but yet you connect this lament to something that might
ultimately be redemptive. I love what you say here. After
expressing your lament about how we don't speak of love
(14:36):
in lovely ways, you say this we may have grown coarser,
but it's only because we have gotten collectively tired of
holding up the pretense that we are good people. Maybe
that that might help us to get to a place
of revival. But I do want to bring up this thought.
I do want to expound upon this thought a little
(14:58):
bit more, because I think this is really, really important.
You know, as as a person who is hyper critical,
I am very critical of the way we speak of
love in this hour. I am very critical of the
way that we write songs about love or poems about love,
and all of it seems to be so based. Uh, so, uh,
(15:24):
you know, un un holy, so much lacking in beauty.
And yet to me, the maybe the, the silver lining
that Jared brings out of this is that it is
removed the pretense. And in this generation, maybe that is
a victory in and of itself, that the pretense is gone, that, um,
(15:49):
and that the truth is revealed. Jared is back, I think,
to his line is back with us. Jared. Are you there?
S2 (15:55):
I'm here. I'm so sorry, brother. It's. You know what
I don't love is technology.
S1 (16:01):
Well, here's what I just brought up, and I want
you to respond to this. You express a lament in
the book about us not speaking of love and lovely ways. Uh,
you you you express your concern over how crude and
rude we've gotten. But yet again, what I found to
be redemptive is in your book. You say we may
have grown coarser, but it's only because we've gotten collectively
(16:25):
tired of holding up the pretense that we are good people. Ultimately,
that could lead to revival, couldn't it?
S2 (16:34):
It could. Yes, because the the foundation of the gospel, uh,
means that there is bad news, and the good news
will only sound as good as the bad news is bad.
And obviously, you know, Jesus came. He said, for those
who are sick, right? It's not the well who need
a physician. And so if we're able to admit The
(16:55):
wretchedness inside of us. If we're able to admit that
actually all of our efforts at trying to get love,
find love, create love outside of him are futile. That
that they fail us and actually make the hunger more pronounced,
actually make us more miserable. I think that's what a
lot of people discover is all they're searching for. Love
(17:18):
ends up being kind of, uh, you know, like in Ecclesiastes,
a chasing of the wind, and actually only makes the
problem worse. If we can get to the point of
that admission, then we're actually ripe for grace and for
the wonderful, transformative nature of God's love.
S1 (17:35):
Yeah. Talk a little bit more about how Genesis three
has impacted love.
S2 (17:41):
Right. Well, so Genesis three shows us kind of the
DNA of of sin, right? You have the, you know,
the fall of mankind there with Adam and Eve taking
of that forbidden fruit. And what's interesting in the appeal
of that fruit is, is that it looked good to
the eyes. It promised to make one wise and it
promised to satisfy. Right. To, you know, be good for
(18:03):
food and all of those things. Those three things are
really bound up in our searching for kinds of love. We,
you know, talk about love in ways that sound sort
of enlightening, that to find love is to finally be
fulfilled and to reach the next level and become a
better person and that sort of thing. We certainly look
for love in the sense of satisfaction, whether it's in,
(18:26):
you know, um, you know, sex or just romance in general.
We think that it will finally satisfy the craving of
our hearts. And then, of course, you know, in in
crude ways and in poetic ways, we see love as beautiful.
It's a delight to the eyes. So we comment on
the beauty or the handsomeness of others or, or even just, um,
(18:47):
you know, things that look beautiful. We describe them in
language that is lovely. So, you know, all of these
things are kind of wrapped up in the the ways
that we search for love that fall short of God's glory,
which is what sin is. It's a falling short of
God's glory.
S1 (19:06):
I want to take the phone. I want to take
phone calls today at 8775675. That's 877548 3675. We'll go
to Linda in Chicago. Hey, Linda, thank you so much
for calling. And thanks for listening. What's your what's your question?
How can we pray for you today?
S3 (19:24):
Okay. I have a friend who used to be my
close friend, and she's no longer my close friend because
she betrayed me. I continued to show love to her
because I know that she has experienced a lot of
hurt in her life. And I'm just wondering at one point,
at what point should I just leave it in God's hands?
You know, I keep encouraging her and trying to get
(19:46):
her to, you know, be involved in, in some spiritual Activities.
And she, you know, she rejects it. So at what
point should I just let God handle it?
S1 (19:59):
Well, first off, Linda, thanks for giving us a call.
And I'm going to let Jared answer this question. I'll
just simply say, Jared, I think it's when we do
what Linda is doing and that is loving someone who
has hurt us or betrayed us, that we are really
reflecting the gospel. We are reflecting the love of God.
And I just want to commend Linda today for doing that.
(20:23):
It's not easy. It's hard. But this is exactly what
Christ has done for us. And so, Jared, what's your
response to Linda?
S2 (20:33):
Yeah. Well, first of all, I deeply sympathize with this
because it's such a common experience. We all have people
in our lives that we have felt, gosh, it's just
a one way street. I've been pouring out love, even sacrificially,
and it's not being reciprocated. This is something I talk
about in the book as well. And what I argue
(20:53):
is that that's actually the closest we come to a
kind of God glorifying love, because God loves us with, with,
in a sense, without hope that we can return the
favor perfectly. We certainly can't. And in the gospel, he
unilaterally loves us. Um, you know, first Corinthians 13 says,
love never ends and love never fails. And so my
(21:16):
encouragement would be that it's not a waste, even if
it's never returned. You know, you can keep loving someone
who won't return the favor, and they may never return
the favor, but loving them nevertheless is not a waste
because God sees it and God is storing it up,
and he will vindicate you and reward you. Um, and
(21:39):
in in that way, loving someone who doesn't love you
back is really how you know you actually love them,
because it reflects the love of God.
S1 (21:48):
Yeah, that's a profound explanation. And I'm really, again, with Jared, uh,
sympathetic to what you're going through. But, yeah, it seems
such a gospel opportunity here. Father, thank you for Linda.
I do pray, Lord, that you would grant her peace
in her heart. Just reaffirm for her your guiding and leadership,
(22:09):
even in this relationship. Lord, I do pray that through
Linda's display of the love of Christ to her friend,
that it would bring her friend to repentance, to turning
to you and and that, uh, even her friend would
be healed through your perfect love. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen and amen. You know, quickly, before we go to break, uh,
(22:32):
Linda's question causes me to think of something else. You
say in your book. You say real love as God intends.
It is meant both as a gift to be enjoyed
and as a glory to be reflected on his son.
What do you mean by that?
S2 (22:47):
Well, just exactly that that it's a picture of the gospel.
You know, Christ died for us. The Bible says in
Romans chapter five while we were still sinners, he didn't
wait around for us to love him before he loved us.
He didn't wait around for us to be good spiritual,
religious people before he died for us. He died at
the right time for the ungodly. It says so when
(23:10):
we love somebody without hope or promise of that love
being returned, what we're doing is reflecting the glory of God.
The same glory that comes in the good news that
that saved us while we were still sinners.
S1 (23:25):
Yeah. And, you know, when I think about that and
I think about the opportunities that God has given me
to love other sinners like me, it strikes me that
so often I despise the same love that I long for. Um,
and I think that for all of us. And I mean,
certainly that seems to be the the human story reflected
(23:49):
in books of the Bible, like Jonah, uh, and other
places where the very love, the very redemption and all
of us long for, uh, that Christ extends to us, uh,
we often despise but praise God that he is merciful
and that he is gracious to us. Uh, Jared, before
(24:10):
we go to break, I'm going to give the number
again so that folks who desire to call can do so. Uh,
we're going to mix in content from the book with
your calls at eight, 775675. That's 877548 3675. Um. Quick question.
And I and I and I would love for you
just to maybe start this and we'll pick it up
(24:32):
after the break. In what way, Jared, did you maybe
get surprised as you were writing the book?
S2 (24:38):
I think I got surprised when I started telling some
personal stories about my own. Um. you know, spotty love life.
And it surprised me of. Really? I'm actually dumber than
I thought I was. That may be the biggest. That
might have been the biggest surprise.
S1 (24:58):
Well, if we're all searching for love, Jared, it makes
sense to me that we need a definition. We need
a definition of love. And so when we come back
from this next break, I want you to give your
definition of love as, uh, as you do in the book.
So many people assume that First Corinthians 13 was given
(25:19):
to us by Paul through the inspiration of the Holy
Spirit to give us a definition of love, but it
really isn't. It's more of a descriptor. Uh, but yet you, uh,
you take an attempt to define love so we can
know what we're searching for. We're going to define that
and unpack it on the other side of this break.
Maybe your heart is longing for the love of a child.
(25:39):
Maybe it's the love of a spouse. Maybe it's the
love of the friend of a friend. Maybe it's. It's
the love of the body of believers. And that's not present.
There's something that feels lacking in our lives. Or maybe
it's the higher love, the love that overlooks our sins
and forgives us and grants us grace. We're going to
(25:59):
talk about that. Next up on Equipped with Chris Brooks.
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Today's program has
been pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. Welcome
(26:23):
back to equipped with Chris Brooks. Today we're talking to
Jeremy Wilson about his wonderful book, Love Me Anyway, how
God's Perfect Love fills our deepest longing. Also, I want
to encourage you to support the program if you have
not already done so. Your partnership, generosity, and in God's
grace is why we are here today. Equipping Christians to
(26:45):
more effectively live, share, and defend their faith. If you
have been blessed by our guest and resources, please call
and partner with us today at 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144.
Jared Wilson is my guest today. Jared. I love the
sections of the book where you share vulnerably about your
(27:08):
journey and love, and and one of the stories you
tell is about being in youth group. Can I just
read a section of this because I think it's fabulous.
We've all been here. You said, I remember I had
a crush on a girl in our church youth group
for a while, and my impression was that even in
our relatively small class, she had no idea I existed.
(27:28):
You go on to say the crush became crushing one
evening at a youth fellowship event. I remember we were
playing volleyball, and a new guy had shown up some
kid who had just moved to town. He wore a
cool t shirt and impeccably rolled jeans. His hair. I'm
sorry for laughing. Was silk. Was slick with mousse. What
(27:51):
a jerk you say. What I remember was that this
girl did not hide at all, that she was immediately
interested in him. I could keep reading. Brother, we've all
been there before.
S2 (28:06):
Well, I've been there multiple times, which is why I
wrote about it.
S1 (28:11):
There's always one guy who knows how to roll his
jeans better than anyone else.
S2 (28:18):
You know, the jeans that my my mom would buy me? Man,
they were always too short anyway, so then when I
would roll them, it looked like I was going wading
or something.
S1 (28:27):
Oh, there we go. There we go. Now, I wish
this was a picture book. Can you please do a
revised version with photos throughout with illustrations? But we've all
had our hearts broken. And that's the point, right? We've
all had our hearts broken in this whole journey with love.
What do you want to say to those who maybe
have put up walls and barriers that even, uh, keep
(28:50):
them from opening their hearts to God?
S2 (28:54):
Well, I think what I would say is, first of all,
God understands that, right? When you look at, for instance,
Jesus and the Gospels and who he is drawn to
and who he is prioritizing, you could very well say
it's people who have had their hearts broken over and
over and over again, who are very protective. Think of, um,
(29:16):
the woman at the well, for instance, the Samaritan woman
that Jesus meets who has had numerous husbands and in
fact is living with a man who's not her husband.
In that time and culture, she's likely been exploited, uh,
by these men. Um, you know, we wouldn't necessarily say
this is, you know, her, you know, trying to throw
herself into sinful romance. Um, but just because of the
(29:39):
time and culture, to be a single woman is to
be very vulnerable. But she perhaps feels used and ashamed.
There are people who look down on her, who whisper
about her, who gossip about her. And so she's got
walls up. And you can see that in the conversation
that she has with Jesus. And yet he goes right
to her heart to speak to her her deepest need
(29:59):
and and to offer her living water. Um, I think
we see it with the woman with the bleeding issue
who reaches out to grab hold of Jesus's, um, you know,
the hem of his garment as he's walking through the crowd.
She is someone who, um, you know, is untouchable, you know,
according to the people around her. And so that has
to be the deepest hurt, the deepest wound, apart from
(30:23):
her physical illness. Right? So she's suffering physically. And then
on top of that, there are people who regard her
basically like human garbage. And the reason she reaches out
to grab hold of Jesus, Us, um, in secret really
is because she knows that Jesus can heal her. But
(30:43):
the way she's been treated by so many people forever,
she probably doubts that he would if she went to
him directly and said, I would like to be healed.
I would like to know your love and be and
be healed by it. She thinks he probably would reject
her and yet he he turns to speak to her.
He calls her daughter. I think that's what I would
(31:06):
say to anyone who has just felt like, you know what? I, um,
I've been beat up too many times. I've gone through
the wringer too many times. Um, I don't know that
I can open myself up to God. Especially because he's God.
He's perfectly holy, you know, he he is glorious. Why
would someone like me be of interest to someone like him?
(31:29):
All we have to do is look into the ministry
of God in the flesh and see that he prioritized Prioritize, um,
you know, directed his ministry towards those very people.
S1 (31:40):
You know, on the flip side of the coin, we
have to acknowledge the Scripture tells us we have a
real adversary whose desire it is to be able to
rob God of his glory and to keep us blinded,
blinded to the love of God and the joy that
we have. Those of us who have experienced this redemptive love,
(32:01):
who have trusted in Christ for salvation, is that we
get to be his witnesses. We get to tell the
world that there is a love that can heal the
longings of your heart. There is a love that can
be trusted. There is a love that knows you deeply
and yet loves you fully and completely. That is a wonderful,
(32:23):
wonderful task that we have been given to be witnesses
and ambassadors of, uh, of the love of God expressed
through the cross of Christ and the finished work of Jesus.
Let's go to the phone lines. Wheaton in Wheaton, Illinois.
Tracy is listening. Tracy, thank you so much for listening
to equip. How can we pray for you today?
S4 (32:45):
Oh, boy. Can you ever. Um, thanks for taking my call.
I'm 58 years old. I've been divorced for 15 years
and have gone out on two dates. I miss having
a man in my life desperately. Sometimes I get very lonely.
So then I'll go to Match.com and I go on
(33:06):
there and it's like, oh, what am I doing here?
And it's like, I don't want to die alone. And
I know God has love for me, but as a woman,
I want a partner, you know, to spend the rest
of my life with. And, uh, I don't go to bars.
I'm very involved in my church. I love my church family,
(33:29):
but I'm also lonely. What do I do?
S1 (33:33):
Well, first off, I want to thank you for your honesty.
My heart breaks in many ways, both for the divorce
and for the the aftermath of that. It's just a
reminder of how painful divorce is and the wake that
it leaves and the lives that it impacts and it affects. Um,
I for one, Jared, think that what Tracy is experiencing,
(33:56):
the longing for a spouse is a God given desire. And, um,
and certainly one that we need to pray with her for.
And I'm grateful, Tracy, that you haven't decided to go
the route of lowering the bar or chasing after love
in in all the wrong places. Jared. What would you
(34:17):
say to our sister?
S2 (34:19):
I would echo Chris what you just shared, first of all,
that there's nothing to be ashamed of in the desire
for a, you know, companionship like that or even for marriage. Um,
like that. God put that in us. The need for relationality.
It's not good for us to be alone. And so
as long as it is a relationship and a pursuit
(34:41):
of it that is honoring to him and not sinful us,
it's a good and godly thing to pray for a
godly spouse to be, you know, looking in the right
ways for a godly spouse. That's a good thing. But
I think what I would say is there are there
are also means of relationships that can bring us, you know,
(35:03):
great healing to us and support for us. For instance,
the way that Christ has established his church is is
meant to provide the family that only the gospel can
make and meet needs that we have that many times
we don't even anticipate. So I would not overlook, um,
(35:23):
you know, the blessing of the church in in satisfying
the need for relationship. And then, of course, to say
it's not just a spiritual, religious answer. Um, God is
all that we need. If if the Lord never supplies
a spouse for us or never supplies this desire that
we have, um, if he says no to our prayers, um,
(35:46):
in a in a way, he's asking us to to
truly trust that he is enough. That if I have Jesus,
Jesus is everything and everything else that I may get
beside Jesus would just be, um, you know, gravy. Um,
on on top of the reality of knowing the one
(36:07):
who knows me and truly loves me more than anyone
ever could. And so I think pressing into one's relationship
with Christ can yield blessings and satisfaction that, um, many
times we don't anticipate.
S1 (36:22):
I'm going to pray for you, Tracy. Um, again, we
stand with you. And in our hope and our hope
that you would be able to. On the one hand,
just see with profound clarity how blessed you are to
have this love of Christ in the church, but also, um,
the recognition that longing for, um, companionship on a human
(36:47):
level is um, is a gift and a natural desire
from God. And we'll we'll pray that God will, uh,
again just satisfy the longing of your heart with his love. Father,
I do pray even now for our sister. I pray that, Lord,
you would help her as she manages through the profound
(37:09):
loneliness of this moment. But, Lord, that you would fill
her heart with a great, overwhelming, uh, deep sense of
your love for her that you would, uh. Lord, just
encourage her. Uh, you know exactly where Tracy's at. May
she be encouraged by friends, by the body of believers,
but most of all by your spirit and through your word.
(37:30):
I pray for all of us towards this end. In
Jesus name, Amen. Tracy, stay on the line. We're going
to get you a copy of Jared's book, just as
a way of saying thank you for listening to equip.
You know, Jared, as I listen to Tracy, I think
about all of us. All of us, if we're not careful,
we're going to have something that we don't have in
(37:51):
our lives, that the enemy is going to make us
think that if I only had that, I would be satisfied.
For some, it's a spouse. There are other couples that
I see that it's a child, man. We're longing for
a child. For others, it is maybe. Man, I want
friendship or community that I'm not getting. Why is that?
(38:11):
Both something we need to not be ashamed of and acknowledge,
but something we also need to guard against.
S2 (38:17):
Well, we don't need to be ashamed of it because
he's made us for that. He's made us relational people.
He's made us in his image. And God Himself is
a Trinity. He exists eternally in relationship father, Son and
Holy Spirit from eternity past. So to be made in
his image is in part, that's not all it means,
but in part it means that we are made to
(38:39):
be in relationship with others. So it's not a shame
at all to desire marriage, to desire friendship, to desire.
Having a church that is supportive and gracious in its,
you know, in its relationship with each other. The thing
we need to guard against is expecting anyone, you know,
any person, or even our church, to be what only
(39:01):
God can be when we ascribe the weight of God
to someone else. Um, even as good as they can be,
we end up actually, in a way, um, crushing them.
We expect more from them than they can give. Only
God can give us, uh, you know what God is.
And so when we search for the weight and the
glory of God, uh, in anything, even good things outside
(39:24):
of him. We'll always find ourselves dissatisfied, and we can
even actually end up harming the people that we're expecting
that love from.
S1 (39:34):
We're going to take a short break, but when we
come back, I think I'm probably right in saying that
most of us don't love well. While we're all longing
to be loved, we also need to talk about what
does it mean to be a good lover of others.
Jerry's going to help us with that as well. Folks,
I want to encourage you to get this book Love
(39:56):
Me Anyway. It is written by Jerry Lee Wilson. You
can find out more by going to our website. Equip
radio that's equip radio.org. Whatever you do, don't go anywhere.
Much more to come. Next up on equip with Chris Brooks.
(40:16):
The enemy loves to take our sexual struggles and build
strongholds that separate us from God. We start believing Leaving
lies like we can't go to church anymore or that
God couldn't possibly love us. Surrender Sexuality by Julie Slattery
breaks down those barriers and shows you the path to
freedom without shame and into the welcoming arms of Jesus.
(40:40):
We'll send you a copy with our thanks when you
support equip this month. Simply call 888644 4144 or visit
Equip Radio. Org. Do you wrestle with sexual shame or
unmet longings? Do you wonder if God cares about your
(41:01):
wounds and desires? Would you love a more intimate, honest
relationship with him? Then you need to read Surrender Sexuality
by Doctor Julie Slattery. She'll help you take your deepest
needs to a loving Savior who meets you without shame
or condemnation. Ask for your copy of Surrender Sexuality when
you support equip this month, simply call 888644 4144 or
(41:27):
visit Equip radio. Org. Chris Brooks here, reminding you that
today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks. You know, you
may have recently heard me promoting our next program or
even asking you to become a monthly partner, folks that
(41:49):
we call Equippers. But today I want to invite you
to join something infinitely more important. Would you consider joining
the family of God? You know, it may be possible
that you've been listening to us talk about the Bible
and the Christian life, but you've never really met Jesus personally.
He longs to welcome you into his family and have
a close relationship with you. You can surrender your life
(42:09):
to him, accept his forgiveness, and start your journey with
Jesus right now. I'd love to help you to take
that first step. All you have to do is simply
call eight, eight, eight. Need him. That's eight, eight, eight. 888.
Need him. Jared Wilson is with me today. Jared, you
said in your book Love Me Anyway. One of the
surprises for you was just the stories you told that
(42:33):
revealed that you weren't that great at love, or at
least at showing it at times. Um, and there's truly that, um,
reality for all of us. I don't think any of
us can say, man, we got a great resume when
it comes to love. And when we look at the
brokenness of our world, we recognize that we don't know
(42:55):
how to love well. How do we address that, Jared?
S2 (42:58):
Well, the Bible is actually the the best calibration for us,
isn't it? First Corinthians 13 when I compare my own
desire for love and efforts towards getting love to the standard,
there I see just how short I fall that, you know, um,
at its at its essence, my desire for love is
a desire to feel a certain way, to get a
(43:21):
certain thing, to experience a certain thing. And First Corinthians
13 says, love is not self-seeking. It's not irritable. It
endures everything. It bears all things. So, you know, God's
Word is such a stabilizing, um, power, but also a reorientation.
(43:43):
For me, it's how I know if the love I'm
giving is actually love or not, or if it's just
sort of self-interest that looks like love.
S1 (43:52):
I think that each one of us has to have
that calibration. And, uh, and this comes through many ways,
and I want to close by asking maybe two questions.
How does the family having, uh, the family as a
local unit help us in love? And what about the
role of the local church?
S2 (44:13):
Yeah, well, the family is, you know, God's designed for
us to kind of Experiment with this grace stuff. I
like to, you know, think of the home as kind
of a laboratory for grace. Um, one of the sort
of recalibrating things the Bible teaches us is how people change.
That they don't actually change most effectively, at least at
(44:34):
the at the level of the heart through the law,
but through grace. And that's really difficult because our default
mode and getting people to change or to act right
or to behave or whatever it is or to love
us back, um, is usually some variation of leveraging of
the law, right? Some sort of we tell them what
to do. We have, you know, rewards or punishments and
(44:58):
those are all necessary things in, in, you know, pursuit of, of,
of discipline and those sorts of things. But when you're
looking at change at the heart level, that people don't
just act right, but inside they become more like Christ.
You see that it's actually showing them grace and giving
(45:18):
them the good news. And so, in the level of
the home, um, I think we can kind of learn
what it means to love our children, to love our spouse,
to honor our parents, all those sorts of things in
ways that make Jesus look big. Not just that quote unquote,
keep the peace, you know.
S1 (45:36):
You know.
S2 (45:36):
And the same is for the church as well.
S1 (45:38):
Yeah. I love what you just said. I don't know
how many people have ever looked at your family as
a lab for Grace, but I think that is a
great way of describing the family and the church. Jared,
thank you so much for the gift that is this book.
Love me. Anyway, I think it's profound, and it's certainly
a book that an entire generation could benefit from. So
(46:02):
I appreciate you. God bless you, brother. Prayers for you
and for Becky and for the girls. Have a great day.
S2 (46:09):
You too. Thanks so much, Chris.
S1 (46:11):
Folks, I pray that this interview was an encouragement to
your heart. Also pray that the ministry is an encouragement
and blessing to you as well. If we have it.
Please go to our website. Learn more about partnering with us.
You can also call the number 888644 4144. And remember,
pray for your pastor's wives today. They certainly need it.
(46:32):
Until we're together again next time. As always, remember equip
with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a
ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Hey, I wonder if you've
been listening to our program for a long time that
have never been in touch with us. We'd love to
meet you and to thank you for your support. You know,
(46:54):
your financial gifts, no matter the size, make a huge difference.
Every little bit helps us equip men and women to
live and love Jesus in today's rapidly changing culture. Here's
the number if you want to financially support, equip 888644
4144 or go online to equip radio.org.
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of equip
with Chris Brooks. I am absolutely thrilled that you've joined
us today. Can you do me a favor? Strap on
your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the contours of culture,
as always, with the lens of the biblical worldview on.
(00:36):
But before we do that, let me remind you, this
is the day that the Lord has made. He has
given it as a gift so that you and I
can rejoice and be glad in it. So let's do
just that. Let's follow the words of the Apostle Paul.
Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again I say rejoice.
And with that, I welcome you into a Monday edition
of equip. We're going to be live today interactive, and
(00:59):
I hope that you'll join the conversation at 8775675. That's
877548 3675. Well, when I say the word love, what
comes to your mind? There are so many love songs.
There's so many poems written about love. There's so much
to be said about the concept of all of our
(01:20):
need for love. But what does it reflect? It reflects
the fact that we are wired for something more, something
more than what this world has to offer. And today
we're going to talk about why we as a generation
are so love starved. So many sociologists will say that
that starvation of love shows up in many different ways,
(01:43):
from social media to technology to the sins that we
are so plagued by in our generation. But today, I
get a chance to feature a book that I'm really
excited about. Jared Wilson has written a new book called
Love Me Anyway, and it talks about how God's perfect
love fills our deepest longing. If today your soul is
(02:07):
so desperately desiring love, I know mine is and probably
true for all of us. Most certainly, this is what
the Bible would speak to. Today, I want you to
know that there's hope for our souls and the longing
for love in Christ. Who? Who is Jared Wilson? Well,
he's a busy man. He's an assistant professor of pastoral
(02:29):
ministry at Spurgeon College. He's author in residence at Midwestern Seminary.
He's also the director of pastoral training Center at Liberty
Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri. He is also the
loving husband of Becky and the father of two beautiful daughters.
And he joins me today. Jared, how are you, brother?
S2 (02:50):
I'm doing great. It's wonderful to be with you again, Chris.
Thanks so much.
S1 (02:54):
It is great to have you on as well. Listen,
I told you that I was going to ask this question.
So you're not shocked by it. Why are there so
many love songs, man?
S2 (03:06):
Well, I'd love to hear your answer. Why do you
think there's so many love songs?
S1 (03:10):
I don't know, but I do know this. I got
a teenage daughter and stuff that didn't bother me before.
It bothers me deeply now, and I do think there
are way too many love songs. So what is it?
What does that show you? What does that reveal about us?
S2 (03:27):
Yeah, you know, the because of that, you probably noticed
I patterned my book, uh, According to Love Songs. So
every chapter. So if you're sick of love songs, please
don't read the chapter titles of my book or the subheadings,
because every title and subhead is a is the name
(03:49):
of a love song.
S1 (03:50):
Well, I think you've redeemed it. I think that's what
you're doing. Okay. I think you've redeemed it.
S2 (03:54):
Yeah, well, there's so there's a reason for it beyond
just that, you know, beyond just that it's about love. Um.
It's because so this is my answer to the question,
I think, um, Bruce Marshall, in one of his novels,
wrote that the young man knocking on the door of
the brothel is subconsciously looking for God. And we might say, gosh,
(04:18):
the young man who's doing that is looking for love
in all the wrong places, right? To use another love
song title, he's he's he's searching for something that, you know, um,
in a sinful way that that can't satisfy him. I
think all the love songs that we've had throughout history, uh, on,
on one part, are about our search for, um, someone
(04:41):
to accept us and approve of us, to know the
mess that we are, to know the sinner that we are.
And to still embrace us, to still love us. But
it's also like love songs are just in our DNA.
The very first recorded words that we have in history
from a human being is Adam in Genesis chapter two.
(05:05):
Seeing Eve for the first time and you'll notice in
most Bible translations. What he says is formatted as Hebrew poetry.
It's a love song, he says at last, one of
my bones, flesh of my flesh. You can almost hear
Etta James kind of over the soundtrack like that.
S1 (05:23):
That's right. That's right.
S2 (05:26):
So the first recorded human words were a love song,
and we've been singing love songs ever since.
S1 (05:33):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and I'm giving you a hard time.
But I will say this. Whether there are teenage dads
of teenagers out there that can resonate with my thoughts
here or lovers of Scripture, what we do know to
be true is that all of us are longing to
be loved, to experience deep love, a love that in
(05:54):
some ways goes beyond what we deserve. We all are
longing for that. But yet, am I right in saying
that this generation is properly defined as love starved?
S2 (06:08):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it's any different
than any other generation, but certainly we have new ways
of expressing that and new innovations, social media and internet connection,
which I think gives us the illusion of love or connection,
at least relationality in ways that previous generations did not have.
(06:29):
So we have more avenues by which to try to
get this love or experience what we think might be love,
or a feeling that that might approximate love. So certainly
maybe that exacerbates that, that appetite, the desire that we
have inside of us.
S1 (06:47):
Yeah. You say this, what if and I'm going to
just abbreviate a little bit here. You say, what if
every romantic movie, every romantic song, every Hallmark Christmas show,
every Hallmark Valentine's Day card, you think about all of
those is simply leveraging Romance and human fulfillment. And and
(07:10):
I think that so many of these do point to
something deeper within us. But I think that what all
of us fear is that somehow because of our flaws
and our fallenness, our failings, uh, because of everything that
we know to be weakness within us, that we won't
be loved and into that vacuum of love steps. The
(07:34):
words of First Corinthians 13 talk about what first Corinthians
13 speaks to you.
S2 (07:43):
Well, what's really radical about that passage is that, um,
we use it in so many different ways, framed in
a kind of romantic love. So just as an example. Right.
It's first Corinthians 13 is to weddings. What amazing grace
is to funerals, right?
S1 (08:00):
It's yes.
S2 (08:01):
Yes. If there's, you know, any wedding even involving unbelievers,
if they want any kind of whiff of religion, um,
in it, some semblance of religion or tradition in it,
and there's going to be a Bible reading. It's going
to be First Corinthians 13. It may be the most
famous passage of Scripture that people know is, you know,
(08:22):
passage of Scripture, perhaps, you know, um, you know, next
to isolated, you know, sayings from the sermon on the
Mount or something like that. And what's really fascinating about
it is we read that chapter and frame it as
a kind of romantic, sentimental, um, vision of love, when
(08:44):
really what Paul is calling us to in the chapter
is so self-denying and self self, you know, self crucifying.
He he he says love isn't self-seeking. He says that
love doesn't keep a record of wrongs. These are things
that we don't often equate with love because we think
of love as, as, you know, ideally as a self-fulfillment
(09:05):
about getting some sort of adoration or affection.
S1 (09:12):
You know, Jared, when I when I think about what
you have written in these pages, uh, I think about
how the church would do well to develop a theology
of love, because love is the penultimate question. I think
of every generation. It is the question and the longing
of the human heart from creation to consummation. It is
(09:36):
ultimately the love feast that we're looking forward to, that
we're longing for. But for those who maybe have not
picked up the book yet, what is your hope? Why
did you write the book? What are you hoping for
and who did you write it for?
S2 (09:53):
Yeah, so the book covers a variety of kinds of love.
I talk about not just romantic love. That's an obvious
angle to take, of course, but. But also friendship and
just our own experience, um, you know, spiritually with God
and our experiences in the church and things like that
as well. I wrote it for anyone who has ever,
(10:15):
you know, laid awake at night staring at the ceiling,
whether there's a spouse next to him or not, and wondered,
could I actually be loved? Could could God really love me?
Will I ever know love? Will I ever feel love?
Anyone who's ever wrestled with that idea or just longed
to be totally known and at the same time totally loved.
(10:37):
Because that's really what we want. That's why I called
the book Love Me Anyway. We we all want to
be loved, but really what we want is to be
loved anyway. That somebody could see the mess of us
and not look away. That's who I wrote the book for.
S1 (10:52):
Yeah. And this is a reflection. And that we live
in a broken and fallen world. And today we're going
to talk about that. Maybe you know what it is
to be rejected in love. Of. Maybe you are living
today with a heart that is broken, not just because
of a longing for a spouse, but maybe it's just
the child that you have that for some reason there
(11:15):
seems to be a breach of relationship. Maybe it's the
lack of love that you have not experienced within the
body of Christ, the church. We're going to talk about
that as well, uh, today. Uh, I believe God wants
to heal hearts that are deeply longing for love and
maybe have have not experienced it. There is a love
(11:40):
that overlooks our flaws, a love that is filled with
a grace in spite of our failings, that is able
to love us anyway. And that's what Jared has written
about Jared C Wilson. The book is entitled Love Me
Anyway How God's Perfect Love Fills Our Deepest Longings. I
(12:01):
love to take your calls at eight, 775, six, seven, five.
That's eight seven, seven five, four eight, 36, 75. And
we come back, we're going to ask the question. And
you knew we were going to do this. What's love
got to do with it? That's right. We're going to
ask that question. And I believe that Jared's going to
help us to ground our answer in the beautiful words
(12:23):
of the gospel. Don't go anywhere. Much more to come.
Next up on equipped with Chris Brooks. Do you have
questions about your sexuality that no one seems to address?
Whether it's sexual sin, gender confusion, or issues in your marriage?
(12:46):
Surrender Sexuality by Doctor Julie Slattery has insights you need.
She'll help you to see that God wants to be
invited into your questions and struggles. And when you do,
everything changes. Request your copy with your gift of any amount.
To equip, simply call 888644 4144 or visit Equip radio.org.
(13:12):
Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded.
While we won't be taking calls, we do want to
connect with you on social media. Phone number is 8775675.
That's 877548 3675. I would love for you to give
(13:32):
us a call. Join us today. We're talking about love
with Jared Wilson. He's written a new book entitled Love
Me Anyway. You can find out more at our website, npr.org.
That's radio.org. I'll take your calls in just a minute.
But Jared, I, you know, was reading your book and, uh,
(13:52):
thinking about Jeremiah chapter six and Jeremiah chapter six. God, uh,
Criticizes Israel. Brings a charge against Israel that they forgot
how to blush as a people. They forgot collectively how
to blush. You say this in your book that we
don't speak of love in lovely ways anymore, that our
(14:15):
way of speaking about love has become more crude, more
rude and less poetic. It's a lament that's in your book,
but yet you connect this lament to something that might
ultimately be redemptive. I love what you say here. After
expressing your lament about how we don't speak of love
(14:36):
in lovely ways, you say this we may have grown coarser,
but it's only because we have gotten collectively tired of
holding up the pretense that we are good people. Maybe
that that might help us to get to a place
of revival. But I do want to bring up this thought.
I do want to expound upon this thought a little
(14:58):
bit more, because I think this is really, really important.
You know, as as a person who is hyper critical,
I am very critical of the way we speak of
love in this hour. I am very critical of the
way that we write songs about love or poems about love,
and all of it seems to be so based. Uh, so, uh,
(15:24):
you know, un un holy, so much lacking in beauty.
And yet to me, the maybe the, the silver lining
that Jared brings out of this is that it is
removed the pretense. And in this generation, maybe that is
a victory in and of itself, that the pretense is gone, that, um,
(15:49):
and that the truth is revealed. Jared is back, I think,
to his line is back with us. Jared. Are you there?
S2 (15:55):
I'm here. I'm so sorry, brother. It's. You know what
I don't love is technology.
S1 (16:01):
Well, here's what I just brought up, and I want
you to respond to this. You express a lament in
the book about us not speaking of love and lovely ways. Uh,
you you you express your concern over how crude and
rude we've gotten. But yet again, what I found to
be redemptive is in your book. You say we may
have grown coarser, but it's only because we've gotten collectively
(16:25):
tired of holding up the pretense that we are good people. Ultimately,
that could lead to revival, couldn't it?
S2 (16:34):
It could. Yes, because the the foundation of the gospel, uh,
means that there is bad news, and the good news
will only sound as good as the bad news is bad.
And obviously, you know, Jesus came. He said, for those
who are sick, right? It's not the well who need
a physician. And so if we're able to admit The
(16:55):
wretchedness inside of us. If we're able to admit that
actually all of our efforts at trying to get love,
find love, create love outside of him are futile. That
that they fail us and actually make the hunger more pronounced,
actually make us more miserable. I think that's what a
lot of people discover is all they're searching for. Love
(17:18):
ends up being kind of, uh, you know, like in Ecclesiastes,
a chasing of the wind, and actually only makes the
problem worse. If we can get to the point of
that admission, then we're actually ripe for grace and for
the wonderful, transformative nature of God's love.
S1 (17:35):
Yeah. Talk a little bit more about how Genesis three
has impacted love.
S2 (17:41):
Right. Well, so Genesis three shows us kind of the
DNA of of sin, right? You have the, you know,
the fall of mankind there with Adam and Eve taking
of that forbidden fruit. And what's interesting in the appeal
of that fruit is, is that it looked good to
the eyes. It promised to make one wise and it
promised to satisfy. Right. To, you know, be good for
(18:03):
food and all of those things. Those three things are
really bound up in our searching for kinds of love. We,
you know, talk about love in ways that sound sort
of enlightening, that to find love is to finally be
fulfilled and to reach the next level and become a
better person and that sort of thing. We certainly look
for love in the sense of satisfaction, whether it's in,
(18:26):
you know, um, you know, sex or just romance in general.
We think that it will finally satisfy the craving of
our hearts. And then, of course, you know, in in
crude ways and in poetic ways, we see love as beautiful.
It's a delight to the eyes. So we comment on
the beauty or the handsomeness of others or, or even just, um,
(18:47):
you know, things that look beautiful. We describe them in
language that is lovely. So, you know, all of these
things are kind of wrapped up in the the ways
that we search for love that fall short of God's glory,
which is what sin is. It's a falling short of
God's glory.
S1 (19:06):
I want to take the phone. I want to take
phone calls today at 8775675. That's 877548 3675. We'll go
to Linda in Chicago. Hey, Linda, thank you so much
for calling. And thanks for listening. What's your what's your question?
How can we pray for you today?
S3 (19:24):
Okay. I have a friend who used to be my
close friend, and she's no longer my close friend because
she betrayed me. I continued to show love to her
because I know that she has experienced a lot of
hurt in her life. And I'm just wondering at one point,
at what point should I just leave it in God's hands?
You know, I keep encouraging her and trying to get
(19:46):
her to, you know, be involved in, in some spiritual Activities.
And she, you know, she rejects it. So at what
point should I just let God handle it?
S1 (19:59):
Well, first off, Linda, thanks for giving us a call.
And I'm going to let Jared answer this question. I'll
just simply say, Jared, I think it's when we do
what Linda is doing and that is loving someone who
has hurt us or betrayed us, that we are really
reflecting the gospel. We are reflecting the love of God.
And I just want to commend Linda today for doing that.
(20:23):
It's not easy. It's hard. But this is exactly what
Christ has done for us. And so, Jared, what's your
response to Linda?
S2 (20:33):
Yeah. Well, first of all, I deeply sympathize with this
because it's such a common experience. We all have people
in our lives that we have felt, gosh, it's just
a one way street. I've been pouring out love, even sacrificially,
and it's not being reciprocated. This is something I talk
about in the book as well. And what I argue
(20:53):
is that that's actually the closest we come to a
kind of God glorifying love, because God loves us with, with,
in a sense, without hope that we can return the
favor perfectly. We certainly can't. And in the gospel, he
unilaterally loves us. Um, you know, first Corinthians 13 says,
love never ends and love never fails. And so my
(21:16):
encouragement would be that it's not a waste, even if
it's never returned. You know, you can keep loving someone
who won't return the favor, and they may never return
the favor, but loving them nevertheless is not a waste
because God sees it and God is storing it up,
and he will vindicate you and reward you. Um, and
(21:39):
in in that way, loving someone who doesn't love you
back is really how you know you actually love them,
because it reflects the love of God.
S1 (21:48):
Yeah, that's a profound explanation. And I'm really, again, with Jared, uh,
sympathetic to what you're going through. But, yeah, it seems
such a gospel opportunity here. Father, thank you for Linda.
I do pray, Lord, that you would grant her peace
in her heart. Just reaffirm for her your guiding and leadership,
(22:09):
even in this relationship. Lord, I do pray that through
Linda's display of the love of Christ to her friend,
that it would bring her friend to repentance, to turning
to you and and that, uh, even her friend would
be healed through your perfect love. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen and amen. You know, quickly, before we go to break, uh,
(22:32):
Linda's question causes me to think of something else. You
say in your book. You say real love as God intends.
It is meant both as a gift to be enjoyed
and as a glory to be reflected on his son.
What do you mean by that?
S2 (22:47):
Well, just exactly that that it's a picture of the gospel.
You know, Christ died for us. The Bible says in
Romans chapter five while we were still sinners, he didn't
wait around for us to love him before he loved us.
He didn't wait around for us to be good spiritual,
religious people before he died for us. He died at
the right time for the ungodly. It says so when
(23:10):
we love somebody without hope or promise of that love
being returned, what we're doing is reflecting the glory of God.
The same glory that comes in the good news that
that saved us while we were still sinners.
S1 (23:25):
Yeah. And, you know, when I think about that and
I think about the opportunities that God has given me
to love other sinners like me, it strikes me that
so often I despise the same love that I long for. Um,
and I think that for all of us. And I mean,
certainly that seems to be the the human story reflected
(23:49):
in books of the Bible, like Jonah, uh, and other
places where the very love, the very redemption and all
of us long for, uh, that Christ extends to us, uh,
we often despise but praise God that he is merciful
and that he is gracious to us. Uh, Jared, before
(24:10):
we go to break, I'm going to give the number
again so that folks who desire to call can do so. Uh,
we're going to mix in content from the book with
your calls at eight, 775675. That's 877548 3675. Um. Quick question.
And I and I and I would love for you
just to maybe start this and we'll pick it up
(24:32):
after the break. In what way, Jared, did you maybe
get surprised as you were writing the book?
S2 (24:38):
I think I got surprised when I started telling some
personal stories about my own. Um. you know, spotty love life.
And it surprised me of. Really? I'm actually dumber than
I thought I was. That may be the biggest. That
might have been the biggest surprise.
S1 (24:58):
Well, if we're all searching for love, Jared, it makes
sense to me that we need a definition. We need
a definition of love. And so when we come back
from this next break, I want you to give your
definition of love as, uh, as you do in the book.
So many people assume that First Corinthians 13 was given
(25:19):
to us by Paul through the inspiration of the Holy
Spirit to give us a definition of love, but it
really isn't. It's more of a descriptor. Uh, but yet you, uh,
you take an attempt to define love so we can
know what we're searching for. We're going to define that
and unpack it on the other side of this break.
Maybe your heart is longing for the love of a child.
(25:39):
Maybe it's the love of a spouse. Maybe it's the
love of the friend of a friend. Maybe it's. It's
the love of the body of believers. And that's not present.
There's something that feels lacking in our lives. Or maybe
it's the higher love, the love that overlooks our sins
and forgives us and grants us grace. We're going to
(25:59):
talk about that. Next up on Equipped with Chris Brooks.
Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Today's program has
been pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. Welcome
(26:23):
back to equipped with Chris Brooks. Today we're talking to
Jeremy Wilson about his wonderful book, Love Me Anyway, how
God's Perfect Love fills our deepest longing. Also, I want
to encourage you to support the program if you have
not already done so. Your partnership, generosity, and in God's
grace is why we are here today. Equipping Christians to
(26:45):
more effectively live, share, and defend their faith. If you
have been blessed by our guest and resources, please call
and partner with us today at 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144.
Jared Wilson is my guest today. Jared. I love the
sections of the book where you share vulnerably about your
(27:08):
journey and love, and and one of the stories you
tell is about being in youth group. Can I just
read a section of this because I think it's fabulous.
We've all been here. You said, I remember I had
a crush on a girl in our church youth group
for a while, and my impression was that even in
our relatively small class, she had no idea I existed.
(27:28):
You go on to say the crush became crushing one
evening at a youth fellowship event. I remember we were
playing volleyball, and a new guy had shown up some
kid who had just moved to town. He wore a
cool t shirt and impeccably rolled jeans. His hair. I'm
sorry for laughing. Was silk. Was slick with mousse. What
(27:51):
a jerk you say. What I remember was that this
girl did not hide at all, that she was immediately
interested in him. I could keep reading. Brother, we've all
been there before.
S2 (28:06):
Well, I've been there multiple times, which is why I
wrote about it.
S1 (28:11):
There's always one guy who knows how to roll his
jeans better than anyone else.
S2 (28:18):
You know, the jeans that my my mom would buy me? Man,
they were always too short anyway, so then when I
would roll them, it looked like I was going wading
or something.
S1 (28:27):
Oh, there we go. There we go. Now, I wish
this was a picture book. Can you please do a
revised version with photos throughout with illustrations? But we've all
had our hearts broken. And that's the point, right? We've
all had our hearts broken in this whole journey with love.
What do you want to say to those who maybe
have put up walls and barriers that even, uh, keep
(28:50):
them from opening their hearts to God?
S2 (28:54):
Well, I think what I would say is, first of all,
God understands that, right? When you look at, for instance,
Jesus and the Gospels and who he is drawn to
and who he is prioritizing, you could very well say
it's people who have had their hearts broken over and
over and over again, who are very protective. Think of, um,
(29:16):
the woman at the well, for instance, the Samaritan woman
that Jesus meets who has had numerous husbands and in
fact is living with a man who's not her husband.
In that time and culture, she's likely been exploited, uh,
by these men. Um, you know, we wouldn't necessarily say
this is, you know, her, you know, trying to throw
herself into sinful romance. Um, but just because of the
(29:39):
time and culture, to be a single woman is to
be very vulnerable. But she perhaps feels used and ashamed.
There are people who look down on her, who whisper
about her, who gossip about her. And so she's got
walls up. And you can see that in the conversation
that she has with Jesus. And yet he goes right
to her heart to speak to her her deepest need
(29:59):
and and to offer her living water. Um, I think
we see it with the woman with the bleeding issue
who reaches out to grab hold of Jesus's, um, you know,
the hem of his garment as he's walking through the crowd.
She is someone who, um, you know, is untouchable, you know,
according to the people around her. And so that has
to be the deepest hurt, the deepest wound, apart from
(30:23):
her physical illness. Right? So she's suffering physically. And then
on top of that, there are people who regard her
basically like human garbage. And the reason she reaches out
to grab hold of Jesus, Us, um, in secret really
is because she knows that Jesus can heal her. But
(30:43):
the way she's been treated by so many people forever,
she probably doubts that he would if she went to
him directly and said, I would like to be healed.
I would like to know your love and be and
be healed by it. She thinks he probably would reject
her and yet he he turns to speak to her.
He calls her daughter. I think that's what I would
(31:06):
say to anyone who has just felt like, you know what? I, um,
I've been beat up too many times. I've gone through
the wringer too many times. Um, I don't know that
I can open myself up to God. Especially because he's God.
He's perfectly holy, you know, he he is glorious. Why
would someone like me be of interest to someone like him?
(31:29):
All we have to do is look into the ministry
of God in the flesh and see that he prioritized Prioritize, um,
you know, directed his ministry towards those very people.
S1 (31:40):
You know, on the flip side of the coin, we
have to acknowledge the Scripture tells us we have a
real adversary whose desire it is to be able to
rob God of his glory and to keep us blinded,
blinded to the love of God and the joy that
we have. Those of us who have experienced this redemptive love,
(32:01):
who have trusted in Christ for salvation, is that we
get to be his witnesses. We get to tell the
world that there is a love that can heal the
longings of your heart. There is a love that can
be trusted. There is a love that knows you deeply
and yet loves you fully and completely. That is a wonderful,
(32:23):
wonderful task that we have been given to be witnesses
and ambassadors of, uh, of the love of God expressed
through the cross of Christ and the finished work of Jesus.
Let's go to the phone lines. Wheaton in Wheaton, Illinois.
Tracy is listening. Tracy, thank you so much for listening
to equip. How can we pray for you today?
S4 (32:45):
Oh, boy. Can you ever. Um, thanks for taking my call.
I'm 58 years old. I've been divorced for 15 years
and have gone out on two dates. I miss having
a man in my life desperately. Sometimes I get very lonely.
So then I'll go to Match.com and I go on
(33:06):
there and it's like, oh, what am I doing here?
And it's like, I don't want to die alone. And
I know God has love for me, but as a woman,
I want a partner, you know, to spend the rest
of my life with. And, uh, I don't go to bars.
I'm very involved in my church. I love my church family,
(33:29):
but I'm also lonely. What do I do?
S1 (33:33):
Well, first off, I want to thank you for your honesty.
My heart breaks in many ways, both for the divorce
and for the the aftermath of that. It's just a
reminder of how painful divorce is and the wake that
it leaves and the lives that it impacts and it affects. Um,
I for one, Jared, think that what Tracy is experiencing,
(33:56):
the longing for a spouse is a God given desire. And, um,
and certainly one that we need to pray with her for.
And I'm grateful, Tracy, that you haven't decided to go
the route of lowering the bar or chasing after love
in in all the wrong places. Jared. What would you
(34:17):
say to our sister?
S2 (34:19):
I would echo Chris what you just shared, first of all,
that there's nothing to be ashamed of in the desire
for a, you know, companionship like that or even for marriage. Um,
like that. God put that in us. The need for relationality.
It's not good for us to be alone. And so
as long as it is a relationship and a pursuit
(34:41):
of it that is honoring to him and not sinful us,
it's a good and godly thing to pray for a
godly spouse to be, you know, looking in the right
ways for a godly spouse. That's a good thing. But
I think what I would say is there are there
are also means of relationships that can bring us, you know,
(35:03):
great healing to us and support for us. For instance,
the way that Christ has established his church is is
meant to provide the family that only the gospel can
make and meet needs that we have that many times
we don't even anticipate. So I would not overlook, um,
(35:23):
you know, the blessing of the church in in satisfying
the need for relationship. And then, of course, to say
it's not just a spiritual, religious answer. Um, God is
all that we need. If if the Lord never supplies
a spouse for us or never supplies this desire that
we have, um, if he says no to our prayers, um,
(35:46):
in a in a way, he's asking us to to
truly trust that he is enough. That if I have Jesus,
Jesus is everything and everything else that I may get
beside Jesus would just be, um, you know, gravy. Um,
on on top of the reality of knowing the one
(36:07):
who knows me and truly loves me more than anyone
ever could. And so I think pressing into one's relationship
with Christ can yield blessings and satisfaction that, um, many
times we don't anticipate.
S1 (36:22):
I'm going to pray for you, Tracy. Um, again, we
stand with you. And in our hope and our hope
that you would be able to. On the one hand,
just see with profound clarity how blessed you are to
have this love of Christ in the church, but also, um,
the recognition that longing for, um, companionship on a human
(36:47):
level is um, is a gift and a natural desire
from God. And we'll we'll pray that God will, uh,
again just satisfy the longing of your heart with his love. Father,
I do pray even now for our sister. I pray that, Lord,
you would help her as she manages through the profound
(37:09):
loneliness of this moment. But, Lord, that you would fill
her heart with a great, overwhelming, uh, deep sense of
your love for her that you would, uh. Lord, just
encourage her. Uh, you know exactly where Tracy's at. May
she be encouraged by friends, by the body of believers,
but most of all by your spirit and through your word.
(37:30):
I pray for all of us towards this end. In
Jesus name, Amen. Tracy, stay on the line. We're going
to get you a copy of Jared's book, just as
a way of saying thank you for listening to equip.
You know, Jared, as I listen to Tracy, I think
about all of us. All of us, if we're not careful,
we're going to have something that we don't have in
(37:51):
our lives, that the enemy is going to make us
think that if I only had that, I would be satisfied.
For some, it's a spouse. There are other couples that
I see that it's a child, man. We're longing for
a child. For others, it is maybe. Man, I want
friendship or community that I'm not getting. Why is that?
(38:11):
Both something we need to not be ashamed of and acknowledge,
but something we also need to guard against.
S2 (38:17):
Well, we don't need to be ashamed of it because
he's made us for that. He's made us relational people.
He's made us in his image. And God Himself is
a Trinity. He exists eternally in relationship father, Son and
Holy Spirit from eternity past. So to be made in
his image is in part, that's not all it means,
but in part it means that we are made to
(38:39):
be in relationship with others. So it's not a shame
at all to desire marriage, to desire friendship, to desire.
Having a church that is supportive and gracious in its,
you know, in its relationship with each other. The thing
we need to guard against is expecting anyone, you know,
any person, or even our church, to be what only
(39:01):
God can be when we ascribe the weight of God
to someone else. Um, even as good as they can be,
we end up actually, in a way, um, crushing them.
We expect more from them than they can give. Only
God can give us, uh, you know what God is.
And so when we search for the weight and the
glory of God, uh, in anything, even good things outside
(39:24):
of him. We'll always find ourselves dissatisfied, and we can
even actually end up harming the people that we're expecting
that love from.
S1 (39:34):
We're going to take a short break, but when we
come back, I think I'm probably right in saying that
most of us don't love well. While we're all longing
to be loved, we also need to talk about what
does it mean to be a good lover of others.
Jerry's going to help us with that as well. Folks,
I want to encourage you to get this book Love
(39:56):
Me Anyway. It is written by Jerry Lee Wilson. You
can find out more by going to our website. Equip
radio that's equip radio.org. Whatever you do, don't go anywhere.
Much more to come. Next up on equip with Chris Brooks.
(40:16):
The enemy loves to take our sexual struggles and build
strongholds that separate us from God. We start believing Leaving
lies like we can't go to church anymore or that
God couldn't possibly love us. Surrender Sexuality by Julie Slattery
breaks down those barriers and shows you the path to
freedom without shame and into the welcoming arms of Jesus.
(40:40):
We'll send you a copy with our thanks when you
support equip this month. Simply call 888644 4144 or visit
Equip Radio. Org. Do you wrestle with sexual shame or
unmet longings? Do you wonder if God cares about your
(41:01):
wounds and desires? Would you love a more intimate, honest
relationship with him? Then you need to read Surrender Sexuality
by Doctor Julie Slattery. She'll help you take your deepest
needs to a loving Savior who meets you without shame
or condemnation. Ask for your copy of Surrender Sexuality when
you support equip this month, simply call 888644 4144 or
(41:27):
visit Equip radio. Org. Chris Brooks here, reminding you that
today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks. You know, you
may have recently heard me promoting our next program or
even asking you to become a monthly partner, folks that
(41:49):
we call Equippers. But today I want to invite you
to join something infinitely more important. Would you consider joining
the family of God? You know, it may be possible
that you've been listening to us talk about the Bible
and the Christian life, but you've never really met Jesus personally.
He longs to welcome you into his family and have
a close relationship with you. You can surrender your life
(42:09):
to him, accept his forgiveness, and start your journey with
Jesus right now. I'd love to help you to take
that first step. All you have to do is simply
call eight, eight, eight. Need him. That's eight, eight, eight. 888.
Need him. Jared Wilson is with me today. Jared, you
said in your book Love Me Anyway. One of the
surprises for you was just the stories you told that
(42:33):
revealed that you weren't that great at love, or at
least at showing it at times. Um, and there's truly that, um,
reality for all of us. I don't think any of
us can say, man, we got a great resume when
it comes to love. And when we look at the
brokenness of our world, we recognize that we don't know
(42:55):
how to love well. How do we address that, Jared?
S2 (42:58):
Well, the Bible is actually the the best calibration for us,
isn't it? First Corinthians 13 when I compare my own
desire for love and efforts towards getting love to the standard,
there I see just how short I fall that, you know, um,
at its at its essence, my desire for love is
a desire to feel a certain way, to get a
(43:21):
certain thing, to experience a certain thing. And First Corinthians
13 says, love is not self-seeking. It's not irritable. It
endures everything. It bears all things. So, you know, God's
Word is such a stabilizing, um, power, but also a reorientation.
(43:43):
For me, it's how I know if the love I'm
giving is actually love or not, or if it's just
sort of self-interest that looks like love.
S1 (43:52):
I think that each one of us has to have
that calibration. And, uh, and this comes through many ways,
and I want to close by asking maybe two questions.
How does the family having, uh, the family as a
local unit help us in love? And what about the
role of the local church?
S2 (44:13):
Yeah, well, the family is, you know, God's designed for
us to kind of Experiment with this grace stuff. I
like to, you know, think of the home as kind
of a laboratory for grace. Um, one of the sort
of recalibrating things the Bible teaches us is how people change.
That they don't actually change most effectively, at least at
(44:34):
the at the level of the heart through the law,
but through grace. And that's really difficult because our default
mode and getting people to change or to act right
or to behave or whatever it is or to love
us back, um, is usually some variation of leveraging of
the law, right? Some sort of we tell them what
to do. We have, you know, rewards or punishments and
(44:58):
those are all necessary things in, in, you know, pursuit of, of,
of discipline and those sorts of things. But when you're
looking at change at the heart level, that people don't
just act right, but inside they become more like Christ.
You see that it's actually showing them grace and giving
(45:18):
them the good news. And so, in the level of
the home, um, I think we can kind of learn
what it means to love our children, to love our spouse,
to honor our parents, all those sorts of things in
ways that make Jesus look big. Not just that quote unquote,
keep the peace, you know.
S1 (45:36):
You know.
S2 (45:36):
And the same is for the church as well.
S1 (45:38):
Yeah. I love what you just said. I don't know
how many people have ever looked at your family as
a lab for Grace, but I think that is a
great way of describing the family and the church. Jared,
thank you so much for the gift that is this book.
Love me. Anyway, I think it's profound, and it's certainly
a book that an entire generation could benefit from. So
(46:02):
I appreciate you. God bless you, brother. Prayers for you
and for Becky and for the girls. Have a great day.
S2 (46:09):
You too. Thanks so much, Chris.
S1 (46:11):
Folks, I pray that this interview was an encouragement to
your heart. Also pray that the ministry is an encouragement
and blessing to you as well. If we have it.
Please go to our website. Learn more about partnering with us.
You can also call the number 888644 4144. And remember,
pray for your pastor's wives today. They certainly need it.
(46:32):
Until we're together again next time. As always, remember equip
with Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a
ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Hey, I wonder if you've
been listening to our program for a long time that
have never been in touch with us. We'd love to
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(46:54):
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