June 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Jesus promised that there would be a cost to pay when we choose to follow Him. How can we stand firm when that cost involves our dreams and relationships? If you feel disappointed with God or Christianity, join Chris Brooks' conversation with Lina Abujamra about remaining steadfast through the pain and discovering the rich rewards of following Jesus while Still Standing!
Today's Resource: Still Standing
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S1 (00:15):
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of equip
with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've joined
me today. Do me a favor, strap on your seatbelt.
We're going to navigate through the contours of culture, as
always with the lens of the biblical worldview on. But
before we do that, let me remind you, this is
(00:38):
the day that the Lord has made. He has given
it as a gift so that you and I can
rejoice and be glad in it. So let's do just that.
Let's follow the words of the Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice
in the Lord always. And again I say, rejoice! I
hope you're doing well today, and I hope that you
are trusting in Jesus. Today we want to have a
(00:59):
conversation about how to handle the hard parts and the
difficult seasons of our faith journey. You know, every one
of us, when we say yes to Jesus, assume that, uh,
that means that the blessings of God will flow and
kind of an unimpeded, unhindered way. And we may not
(01:20):
talk about it openly, but I think all of us
come with this vision of what the Christian life will
be like. And depending on the type of tradition and
preaching that you have been exposed to, maybe it was
a pretty optimistic vision that, man, I'm going to come
to God and not only are my sins going to
be forgiven, but all wrongs are going to be made right.
(01:40):
All difficulties are going to be reconciled, and and healing
is going to come. And in large part that's true
is certainly true. But what we often don't think about
are the difficulties that will come along with obeying Jesus,
the sufferings that are a part of the Christian faith,
(02:03):
the taking up our cross and following him. And you know,
it's not that the Bible doesn't talk about those things.
The Bible is is very open, transparent, and Transparency has
a rich theology of how to handle suffering in Christ's
faithfulness to us in the valley. But yet for many
of us, that's not a part of what we were
(02:25):
sold when we came to faith. And and if you
didn't factor those seasons in, man, when you experience a
season where God feels distant and things feel difficult and
days are hard, it can be very disorienting, very discouraging,
and you can find yourself questioning your faith, doubting God's
love for you, or maybe even the reality of his
(02:49):
existence or even your salvation. And maybe you find yourself
in a place right now where you're saying, where are you, God?
And how could you let this happen? And this does
not seem to fit your promises. Well, if that's you today,
you have tuned in to the right program. On the
right day. We're going to talk about suffering today, the
(03:10):
book that we're going to feature. And really all month long,
we're featuring this phenomenal resource. It's called Still Standing Following
Jesus even when it hurts. My guest today is one
of our favorite guests, Doctor Lina Abujamra. You guys know Lina.
She's not only a pediatric ER doctor, but she also
(03:30):
is a wonderful Bible teacher, awesome podcaster, and a tremendous
conference speaker. She's the author of several books. I think
I've gotten a chance to interview her on all of them,
and it's always a blessing whenever, whenever Lina is able
to stop by. Equipped. Hey, Lina. How are you?
S2 (03:49):
Chris, it's so good to be back on the show
with you, to have you back. And you're right. I
think you have talked to me about every one of
the books, and I am grateful. Love being here.
S1 (03:58):
Well, I'm a huge living with power, uh, fan. And
I'm so grateful for your ministry. For those who don't
know your ministry, maybe being introduced to you for the
first time, can you talk a little bit about living
with power.
S2 (04:12):
Of course, I was doing my fellowship in pediatric emergency
medicine when I felt God's call to teach the Bible,
and it came at a season that was a lot
of deep pain, sort of my first spiritual crisis where
I was like, Is God really there? You know, what's
going on? And so out of that, the Lord healed me.
We can delve into that, uh, during, uh, later on
(04:33):
in the show. But basically, I really sensed God, um,
open opportunities that were really, uh, surprising in a way.
And I started teaching the Bible in church, and I
just fell in love with that. I felt like finally
I knew the gift that God had given me. You know,
people talk about spiritual gifts, and sometimes you're not sure
what yours is. You take all these quizzes, and I
really sort of could tell that this is what I
was created to do. And the Lord allowed me to,
(04:55):
with the years, do more and more teaching and eventually
started a ministry. Um, based on this premise of providing
biblical truth for everyday life, not knowing, you know, I
had a I had a thought of what God wanted
me to do, but I really didn't have the full picture.
It would take several years later, after serving in a
local church as a women's ministry director and starting to
write books and sort of thinking my world was going
(05:17):
to be women's ministry, that God would open a new
venue for me to start doing, um, medical work in
the Middle East, in my own home country, where I
was born, Lebanon, and, uh, started working with Syrian refugees.
And then over the years, the Lebanese went through their
own mess with the big explosion in 2020. And so
the Lord just continued to grow our work there. So
(05:37):
we kind of have two branches in our ministry. We
do discipleship to all people, singles and women, and whoever
is interested in practical, biblical truth for everyday living. And
that includes, uh, podcasts, books, speaking, as you mentioned, in
the introduction. And then we of course, serve now, not
just in the Middle East, but also in Uganda, providing
(05:57):
all sorts of humanitarian aid with the goal of reaching
people for Christ. And it's been amazing to see what
God has done their.
S1 (06:05):
Part doctor, part missionary, part Bible teacher. All of it
for the glory of God. And I am so grateful
for your ministry. I was telling you that before we
we started. But I want to dive into this book because, man,
I come to this moment. I think many of our
listeners know I come to this moment and honestly, a
(06:27):
really difficult season in our own life as our daughter
journeys through, uh, this, this cancer journey and treatments and
a lot of hospital visits. So that's what's going on
in my own personal life. But then I think about
the last 48 hours or so, last 48 hours. I
had a pastor friend who emailed me saying, hey, I
just want you to know, my mom was just diagnosed
(06:50):
with stage four pancreatic cancer, got a family member who
we love dearly, who's son is going through a really
difficult season. And then I got friends who we love
dearly who are really, uh, having a challenging season in
their marriage right now. And I thought to myself, man,
(07:11):
what a gift to be able to give to them
in this book. What a gift to be able to
put into their hands, because I think that what is
true for us, Lena, is that 100% of us are
going to go through seasons of suffering. So I would
love to just hear your heart. Why did you write
the book? What was your motivation and what's your your
(07:34):
hope for those who read it?
S2 (07:36):
You know, it's been my experience as a Christian that
a lot of things we understand in theory, but somehow
just doesn't translate into it's not that we don't believe them,
it's just somehow we think we'll be an exception to
the rule. And I feel like in a sense, I
did not grow up in a side of the church
that was prosperity driven at all. In fact, I you know,
I believed that Jesus said that there would be persecution
(07:59):
and suffering. I mean, I grew up in Beirut, for goodness.
S3 (08:02):
Sakes, you know. Right.
S2 (08:04):
But but it just felt like on one scale, it
felt like it would be that type of persecution and
suffering meaning, you know, not so much personal. Like there's
bad people out there, there's a war out there, things happen.
But but I didn't foresee sort of how the difficulty
could be so personal. Like your kid suffering for me, my,
my watching these trials that my nieces and nephews go
(08:25):
through who are like my kids or, you know, my
own life, like, you know, my first crisis had to
do with a broken engagement, but really led to the
loss of a relationship that I thought would be the
person that I would marry.
S3 (08:36):
And yeah.
S2 (08:36):
And then now at 53, still not married. And of course,
that's its own worst, you know, type of suffering and, and,
but the incessant pressure of other things like, like I
delved into the world of ministry and I thought, well,
now I'm doing ministry. So of course, God's going to
protect and bless. And, you know, you hear sermons about
how Satan, if you go into ministry, you've got a
target on your back and Satan's attacking you. But but
(08:58):
you sort of have this romantic, I don't even want
to say romanticize this, this human A pretation of what
God's goodness looks like. And in our American mind, God's
goodness looks like comfort.
S3 (09:13):
Yeah.
S2 (09:13):
And and it's it's it's not that God isn't a God.
God is. This is the this is the the magic
bullet that I think we miss. God is the God
of comfort. He doesn't just provide you circumstantial comfort. I
think that's the filter that has to be removed. I'm
constantly looking for comfortable circumstances. What God spends our entire
(09:35):
Christian life doing is give us his comfort, his presence, his.
S3 (09:39):
Spirit, his.
S2 (09:41):
Power. And and that is not experienced or learned or
tasted until you walk through a desert season, a wilderness period,
these painful circumstances. And I think this is the tension
of how do you understand a God? Like if he's
God in your father, why would he allow these bad
things to happen? And I think that's why I wrote
(10:02):
the book, because I have come to know over the years,
though my suffering in some ways pales to other people's suffering.
But again, who rates sufferings like you can't? That's not
even a fair thing. You know what people are going through.
It's not, you know what I could be going through
might be less painful to you, but very painful to you. Again,
you can't compare pain. It's like walking in the air
and trying to decide who hurts the most, you know? But, um,
(10:24):
but I think in it, the consistent, steadfast theme that
I have learned is that there is a God who
cares and who loves us, and who knows exactly what.
We need to be awakened to his love and presence
and intimate communion.
S1 (10:38):
All right. So here's what I want to do, because
you just said some very, very profound things, and you
say it almost so, um, so, so comfortably that it's
easy to miss, right? Because these are things that, let's
be honest, you've thought deeply about, so deeply about that
you've written about it, you've walked this journey with the Lord.
(11:00):
And so for some that are living in the crises
right now. Here's what I want to do. I want
to just just open up the phone lines first. For
those who are going through any type of suffering, what
would Lena says, both as an ER doctor and as
a Bible teacher? Is that the suffering that you and
I go through can be as varied as we are.
(11:21):
So for some it is the health crises of a
loved one that you care for deeply. For some it's
it's your marriage crises. For some, it's navigating seasons of
singleness that are elongated or maybe difficult with all the
pressures that come along with that. For others, it's your
wayward child. Wherever you find yourself today, we'd love to
(11:45):
be your prayer partner. I would love to come alongside
of you and pray because it's not a coincidence you're
listening right now. So 8775675. That's the number 877548 75.
It is not a coincidence that you're listening today. As
(12:05):
we're talking about suffering. God sees you and he wants
you to know his love and his care. 877548 3675.
But the other thing that I want to do today
is I want to put this resource into as many
hands as possible. I wish I could airdrop this to
every home in America, but you can be you can
(12:28):
be the person who gets this resource. And not only
does it help you to rekindle your faith after crises,
but maybe you're the person who puts it in somebody
else's hand. So all month long, a gift of any amount.
If you go to our website, equip radio.org equipped radio.org,
(12:50):
go to our website, get your copy of Still Standing.
Your trial was never meant to take you out. Your
faith is meant to be stronger Longer. Even on the
other side of a difficult season. We're going to come
right back right after this. Next up on equip. The
(13:12):
Bible offers victory over sin and Satan, but even strong
Christians can feel discouraged or even distant from God. If
that's where you find yourself today, may I encourage you
to get a copy of Still Standing by Lina Abujamra.
Lina has walked this road and knows that suffering isn't
a detour. It's often the very path God uses to
(13:34):
transform us. We'll send you a copy of Still Standing.
When you support equip this month, simply call 888644 4144
or visit Equip Radio org. Today's program has been prerecorded
so our phone lines are not open. 8775675 is the
(13:55):
number equipped with Chris Brooks? Is it possible to have
a vibrant faith even after or during seasons of suffering? Well,
the answer that Lena Abujamra gives in her book Still Standing,
is yes. But the key is knowing that God doesn't
just give us circumstantial comfort. No, he is the comfort.
(14:20):
He is our comforter. Let's go to the phone lines. Lena,
Jeff is listening in the Chicago area. Hey, Jeff, thank
you so much for listening to equip. How can I
pray for you today?
S4 (14:35):
Greetings. How are you doing today?
S1 (14:36):
Doing well. Brother. Thanks for calling.
S4 (14:39):
Oh, I got an incredible story of God's grace. Stage
four pancreatic cancer that was, uh, metastasized to liver and spleen. Inoperable.
By God's grace, after multiple rounds of chemo, 12 rounds,
they'd see shrinkage. I went from inoperable to operable. They
took it out again. Oh, again. By all. By God's grace.
(15:01):
Took out the spleen, gallbladder, lymph nodes. This size portion
of the liver, two thirds of the pancreas.
S1 (15:09):
Wow.
S3 (15:10):
Wow.
S4 (15:10):
And it's been cleaned so far. We're coming up on
a one year Pet scan.
S3 (15:15):
Wow.
S4 (15:16):
And we're praying for that to be clear. It's by
God's strength. I believe he's got a story for me
to tell. Some people may consider this suffering, but this
has been the most incredible time of sharing what God
has done and opening doors. And I just ask for prayer. Yeah.
That that Pet scan would be clear. But more than that,
that I'd never shrink back from telling his story of
(15:37):
his grace and how he wants his gospel. What I'm
going through is my testimony of his story, and I
want people to hear his story.
S1 (15:47):
Well, first off, let me let me just say, brother,
to God be the glory. And, uh, I'm super grateful
that you've called in today. I want to pray for
you and then give Lina opportunity. Opportunity? Uh, just to
to share as well. But, father, we thank you for Jeff.
We thank you for the doctors, the medical team, the
(16:07):
medicine that has worked, by your grace, on his body.
We know you're the maker of all these things, ultimately. But, Lord,
I am even more encouraged by the clear strength of
his faith, his joy in Jesus, in spite of the
difficulties of the journey and his deep sense of your
(16:28):
calling on his life. I agree with him that you, Lord,
want to use him to share his testimony with others,
and to be able to remind people of your faithfulness
in all things. So, Lord, for this upcoming Pet scan, uh,
I do pray for just a continued testimony of healing
(16:51):
and your grace and and just a good report there.
But I pray also, Lord, that you would open up
doors that no man can shut, so that my brother
can use his testimony to point people to Jesus. Bless Jeff,
I pray in Jesus name. Amen and amen. Uh, I
think what stands out to me, Lena, when I listen
(17:13):
to Jeff, is just the fact that his faith seems
to be, uh, just as strong, if not stronger on
the other side of the crisis he's been through. How
is that possible in your assessment, Lena?
S3 (17:26):
Well, it's possible.
S2 (17:27):
Because of the Holy Spirit. Look. There's four. I was
thinking about this, Jeff, when you were telling us your story.
I mean, four places, major places in the New Testament
that trials are mentioned in. James mentions and Peter mentions them. Romans.
Paul mentions them. And then there's a little anecdote, story
of in the New Testament where Peter and John are
beat up in prison and, and in every time that
(17:48):
those major sufferings and trials are mentioned, there's this concept
of rejoicing that's tied into it. And I believe with
all my heart that it is the power of the
resurrection of the of the Christ that we worship, that
allows us to experience that. In fact, the the believers
in the two, the the two men who were beat up,
they left sort of that experience saying that they were
(18:10):
they rejoiced that they were found worthy to suffer for
the sake of Christ. And in a sense, again, this
is our modern day form of a certain degree of suffering.
It is suffering. And you could say, you know, Jeff,
that you you is it suffering? Of course it is.
But your joy is that you're bearing it in the
body of Christ, so to speak, like you're given the
strength that Christ only can give. And so I as
(18:31):
a doctor, I hear the story in pancreatic cancer, the
stages that you mentioned. And I think this is a
miracle and that God can use a man like Jeff
right now in the medical community to shed the love
of Christ, to be the aroma of Christ. It's just incredible.
And it's really the purpose of our life, right? Is
that's why we're here on Earth. At the end of
the day, it's to point to Jesus and the glory
of his goodness in the middle of our suffering. That's
(18:53):
what moves people. Not that we, you know, everybody suffers.
Not that we have a suffering free life because that
doesn't connect. Every human suffers, but it's that in the
middle of it, we can point to someone bigger and
better in our life. That makes it all worthwhile.
S1 (19:06):
Maybe you know someone who is suffering right now. Unexpected
loss of a loved one, unexpected diagnoses, facing a parental crisis.
Why don't you get a copy of Lena's book for them?
You can go to our website equipped radio.org that's equipped radio.org.
Or you can call this number if it's more convenient
(19:28):
for you. 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144. I was thinking
about the Apostle Paul. I don't know if any figure
in Scripture has ever gotten quite a unique call to
ministry as Paul did. In. It's in acts. I'm looking
(19:52):
in the book of acts, chapter nine and in verse
number 15, God speaking to Ananias, this disciple, well respected disciple.
He tells him to go to Paul. And Paul at
that point was the equivalent of a religious terrorist. I mean,
he was terrorizing the early followers of of Jesus. So
(20:13):
you can imagine the trepidation, nervousness that Ananias would feel. Lina.
And God says this to Ananias. But the Lord said
to him, go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine,
to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and
the children of Israel. For I will show him how
(20:34):
much he must suffer for the sake of my name.
Can you imagine that your your calling on the front end,
that God calls you and it tells you a lot
about Paul's character, that he could be called that way
and still say say yes. But it just reminds me,
(20:54):
and I'd love for you to talk about this, that
even for those who are called to obedience, that obedience
does not mean you won't suffer, does it? That just
because you're doing the very thing that God called you
to do? I think sometimes we feel like, well, God,
you told me to marry this person and I did.
Now I'm suffering. You told me to take this job,
(21:15):
now I'm suffering. You told me to have these kids.
You blessed me with these children. Now I'm suffering. Obedience
doesn't mean you won't suffer, does it?
S2 (21:24):
Not even. Yeah. I mean, this is really the premise
of my book is it's written for a Christian audience
that basically, um, there's this unspoken assumption that we develop
that because I'm following God's will, I'm spared certain pains
in life. Right? I mean, this is sort of our
our intuitive conclusion. And it's not biblical. It's, as you said,
Paul's such a great example of it, but we see
(21:45):
it over and over again in Scripture. I mean, I'm
reading through Elijah in the Old Testament and like, you know,
right after, um, right after he goes to the king
and tells him that there's going to be a drought.
I mean, he God provides for him at the beginning
and within, you know, days, basically the water dries up,
you know, so he he was walking in obedience. And
we see this pattern again and again. Um, Abraham, as
(22:06):
soon as he said yes to God to follow him
out of Haran, um, it doesn't take long before a
famine hits. And now he has to figure out what
to do. And so the Lord, I believe, gifts us
with these opportunities to learn to trust him. It's it's
his way of showing us that he is the most
valuable thing. And and again, I think we sort of
understand that biblically, but we don't translate it into our
(22:29):
real life. And and here's the other thing. It's it
doesn't God doesn't teach it once and it's like, okay,
now you took the class, you're done. You graduated. It continues.
It gets worse with time.
S5 (22:41):
And I say this, I laugh too, because it's.
S2 (22:43):
Not even there's a point, I think at some point
and I feel like to a certain degree, I think
I'm in that stage where I now I finally get it. Like,
it's not going to stop. But what has changed? Meaning
the suffering might not stop. It'll come in different colors
and format and variety and ways. And and a lot
of it is because of the broken world we're in.
And some of the suffering is meant to, you know,
(23:04):
there's all sorts of things you can talk about.
S5 (23:05):
Suffering, but.
S2 (23:06):
Ultimately, ultimately, the number one goal that God has in
suffering is to help us experience his presence and his
power more deeply in our life. That is it. That's it.
There's nothing. Everything else fades. If you know Christ, you
know this life is passing. Now let's just delight in
him and sort of be freed of the burden of
(23:27):
having to fix the problem, thinking that if we fix
the problem, our joy will be complete. No, your joy
is complete right now, no matter what your problem is.
If you're finding your joy in a perfect Savior who
has promised to never leave you nor forsake.
S6 (23:41):
You, the.
S1 (23:42):
Website is equipped. Excuse me. Equipped Equip radio. Org that's
equip radio. Let's go back to the phone lines. Brenda
is listening in Illinois. Hey Brenda, thank you so much
for listening to equip. How can we pray for you today?
S7 (23:57):
I was just listening to I was just coming home
from work. I said, wow, she talking right up my alley,
you know?
S1 (24:02):
Yeah, all of us.
S7 (24:03):
All of us kids. I was like, wow, she hit
so many things. Like, what do I ask for? You know? But, um,
I would like to pray for my prodigal children. Both
of them. They was raised in church, but as they
got older and they moved out and they went their way,
you know, I can't make them go to church now,
but I would just all I can do is pray
(24:24):
for them that God will restore them back unto him.
S1 (24:28):
Alright, let's.
S7 (24:29):
Standing in the gap. Like you say, you being obedient
and it's just like God. When. When God when?
S1 (24:36):
Yeah. Well, first off, I'm so grateful for you calling in.
And as I said earlier, Brenda, it's not coincidence that
you're listening today. God sees you and he also sees
your kids, and he loves them so much more than
we ever could. And, uh, and he's able to put
witnesses in their pathway. I won't try to give you
(24:58):
a false sense of quickness of how this prayer will
be answered, but I do trust God's faithfulness, and I
believe that God hears the prayers appearance. So let's pray together. Father,
I thank you for Brenda. I thank you for a
mom who trusts you, who loves you, and who carries
her children in her heart. And Lord, right now, her
(25:19):
number one desire and concern is for them to come
to you. And so, Lord, won't you be gracious as
you were with the prodigal. I pray that you would
bring home her children, bring them to yourself, restore relationship
with her, and allow them to be able to rejoice
in like precious faith. Lord, you're the God of salvation.
(25:41):
It belongs to you. So we ask that you would
do it not just for Brenda, but for all the
parents who are listening, who have children that are far
from you. We pray for salvation. In Jesus name, Amen
and amen. Maybe today is the day of your salvation.
If you have yet to make Jesus Christ your Lord
to surrender your heart, let today be the day where
(26:04):
you embrace his grace and turn to him. Give us
a call 8775675. We'll be right back. Chris Brooks here
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't
be taking your calls. Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks.
(26:28):
Today we're talking about surviving suffering all month long. We're
featuring Doctor Leana Abu-jamal's wonderful book, Still Standing following Jesus
even when it hurts. Maybe you find yourself going through
a crisis. Physically. Relationally. Socially. In your career. And yet,
(26:50):
it's possible for your faith to not only survive, but
to thrive. And it comes when we understand that Jesus
is our comfort, and that he wants to reveal a
deeper understanding of his goodness and grace to us as
we walk through trials. We'd love to get this resource
into your hands. A gift of any amount to equip
(27:11):
all month long. We'll send it over to you. The
phone number 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144 or go to
equip radio Dot Lena. Before we go back to the
phone lines, I want you to talk about this condition.
I think we've all suffered from at some point in
(27:34):
our journey called spiritual amnesia. What is that and how
do we recover from it.
S2 (27:41):
Yeah, man. This is, uh, luckily, not a tournament one.
It's curable. Yes. Let's put it that way. So it's.
But it is. Unfortunately, it's like a pandemic. That is
the real Christian pandemic. Uh, Paul Tripp talks a lot
about that. He's a wonderful author, as you know. Um,
but but it we forget, you know, and in fact,
(28:02):
we're not the first people to forget, right? Amnesia is
just forgetting what God has done. And so, um, everything.
And think about the Old Testament, like the entire Old
Testament is the same thing over and over again. It's
people who forget who God is and what God has done,
and it's God reminding the people of who he is
and what he has been doing and continues to do.
And so we see the same thing. Sometimes it baffles
(28:23):
your mind. You're like, wait, I don't understand how. I mean,
even Abraham, I mentioned him earlier in the show. He,
you know, the famine hits, he goes to Egypt, and
then a few pages later, famine hits again. And even
though he's he should have learned the lesson. He does
it again. He goes back to Egypt and again, you
see it over and over again in Scripture, so don't
feel bad if it's happening to you. On one hand.
On the other hand, let's learn. You know, I mean,
(28:45):
wisdom is learning from our own mistakes. And I think
the way we learn, the way God teaches us, is
to put us in situations that demand us to get
on our knees, to seek him. And and I found
that the seasons in my life and again, I don't
think I'm alone where I am naturally drawn to God
as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus, I think
(29:07):
our response to pain is, of course, first to try
to fix it because we forget, and then to complain
about it because we forget, sort of like the people
of Israel. And eventually you get to the place where
you can do nothing, where you finally let go and say, God,
I need you, I need you, I need you. And
that is precisely where he can do his best work.
(29:28):
Because at that point, God doesn't chide us and say, well,
I can't believe you didn't remember who I am, and
I can't believe you aren't turning to your Bible and,
you know, quoting the verse. On the contrary, free. God,
like a loving father, holds us in his arms and
comforts us and gently looks us in the eyes, if
I may use that. I mean, obviously it's it's, you know,
not a fact in a sense that he's you're not
(29:49):
seeing him face to face yet, but it's like everything
you get this show on the radio when you're driving
right now, you might be listening, going, oh, that was
the last thing I expected to hear. And here you
are listening to the show. Or, you know, something pops
up in a conversation at work, but God reminds you
in a million different ways that he's still for you,
that he's not abandoning you, that he's with you in it.
And this is the goodness of God. This is it, right?
(30:13):
It's it's understanding that you're not left to do it
on your own. And so spiritual amnesia is, um, the
how you overcome it is by learning, practicing the habits
in your life of setting up a system, let's say
your quiet time, your spiritual disciplines in the morning, accountability,
going to church on Sundays, ways to constantly remind yourself
(30:35):
there's this God who loves me and cares for me.
I have to remember those things. And he.
S1 (30:41):
As a matter of fact, I was just going to
mention quickly, one of the things that I love about
your book is you really do get into the system
we need to put into our lives so that we
can not only survive, but recover after a crises, after
seasons of suffering. So you talk a lot about endurance,
(31:01):
about prayer, about grace, belief. It's really it's really helpful
and practical. So when you get this book, it's not
just theoretical. You're going to. Yes. Here to talk about
what is common to all of us, the sufferings and
challenges that we face. But you're going to have her
also lay out a plan of survival for you that
(31:23):
I think is super important. You know, you talk about
that spiritual amnesia. I just want to mention recently our
church celebrated our 70th anniversary as a church. And it's
that's that's great just to be able anything that lasts
70 years in this day and age, that's a testimony
of God's grace. But in preparation of that, you know,
(31:44):
I was studying Scripture and just saw this doctrine of
remembrance emerge. You know, these constant, uh, admonishments throughout Scripture
from beginning to end of, of remembrance that God doesn't
want his people to forget. And so in the Old Testament,
he gives these seven feasts, all designed to be annual
(32:06):
reminders to them to remember. Remember I brought you out
of Egypt. Remember I established you as a nation. Remember
I gave you the land. Remember I rescued you from
your enemies. So all this. And then by the time
we get to the New Testament, he gives us a
meal and says this. Do in remembrance of me. I
(32:27):
think that God knows his people are prone to forget
every single one of us, and hopefully what communion is
in your local church setting and you need a local
church is an opportunity regularly to remember, to remember that
God is not only a promise. Giving God a promise,
(32:49):
keeping God. If you want to get a copy of
the book, go to our website. Equip radio. Dial this
number 888644 4144. It might just be the best call
you've made all day. Let's go to Rebecca, who's listening
also in Chicago. Rebecca, thank you so much for listening
to equip. How can we best pray for you today?
S8 (33:13):
Hi. Thanks so much for taking my my call. Um,
I guess I'm going to try to to not ramble
as I try to put my thoughts together on the radio. So, um,
I guess prayer. Um, it's more of a praise, I guess,
in in what I have to share. And my hope
is kind of if someone is listening who has a
(33:33):
similar situation, they can empathize. And, um, I guess one
of the points I want to make is, um, over
the the course of this past year, my family has
had a lot of, like, cut and dry, like black
and white big sufferings. Right? So loss of a family
member sickness where it's very, um, very obvious and upfront. Um, my,
(33:56):
a lot of my suffering this year came from, um,
a working in a toxic work environment that I was
desperate to get out of. It was affecting me, um,
months and months and months. I tried to get out.
Didn't work. Um, until, by God's grace, uh, a position
opened up at my church and mission. So I'll be
moving into ministry. Um, but in that time, too, um,
(34:21):
one of the the things that was such a point
of turmoil for me was, uh, as I was in
this toxic workplace, the one, uh, quote unquote bright light
in that workplace was my coworker, and, uh, he is
a great guy. Not a Christian. I'm a single woman. Um,
and all of that, we I knew it was not
(34:44):
a good idea, but I got involved, and that was
not good, and that caused a lot of turmoil. Um,
so it was quite a season until now of I'm
in this workplace. It's such a struggle. I'm desperate to
get out. I'm. I'm with this guy, and now I
know he's not a Christian. I'm a Christian. I want
(35:05):
to love God, but he's here. And it was just
it has been such a time of emotional struggle, of
trying to figure out even just how to how to
manage this. And by by God's grace. Um, I mean,
I did end things with this man, uh, a few
(35:25):
days ago, uh, right before I go into ministry. So
I'm like, yeah, that needed to happen, but, um, it
was such a, um, such a rough, rough time. In comparison,
I guess, to, like I said, my the other kind
of black and white sufferings, this was really, I mean,
getting down to the nitty gritty of what I was
suffering with on a day to day basis.
S1 (35:46):
You know, I want to jump in here, Rebecca, because
first off, thank you for being so honest, being so,
so vulnerable. But I think she brings up different types
of sufferings that we often don't think about. Man. Lena,
the the pain of being in a toxic workplace where
you got to go every single day, man, that is
(36:08):
a type of suffering that so often you don't hear
preached about that much. But when you're living through it,
that is almost torturous. Secondly, the pain of being in
a relationship that, you know, man, this is not healthy,
this is not God honoring. That's another type of suffering.
(36:30):
And so as you hear, uh, Rebecca, share this. For
people who are going through that, people who say, uh, Lena,
I appreciate what you're what you're saying, and I appreciate
the book, but I don't see this ending anytime fast.
What do you say to them when the prognosis seems
to be that this won't be just for a day
(36:51):
or for a short time, but this might be for
a really long season that you're in this.
S2 (36:57):
It may never end. I don't say this to I mean,
I'm an ER doctor through and through in that setting.
It's like better to tell the truth than to sugarcoat it,
because I think if you hear the truth, then you
don't think you're the exception to the rule. But a
case in point, I mean, Johnny Erickson taught us she
popped up in my Instagram today and she had a
picture of her cancer. It's cancer celebration month or, you know, whatever.
And I didn't recognize at first the bald woman in
(37:18):
the picture. And then I flipped over and I go,
oh my gosh, it's Johnny. I forgot that she had
had cancer twice, in addition to being in a wheelchair
since 17. Like, how does God. Why? And she writes
this caption that's mind boggling about how she wouldn't trade
it for anything, and how you. And there's not a
human on this planet that I have seen exude more
(37:38):
joy than Johnny. Right. She impacted my life when I
was ten, and I watched her movie back when I
lived in Lebanon. To this day, I am probably where
I am, partly because of her story. And so, you know,
I think the idea that I'm going to make it
until it ends, I think we need to destroy that
notion from our from our minds in that it may end,
and I hope it does. Some people have their Lazarus
(38:00):
come out of the tomb, you know, raised from the dead.
But others, like the Apostle Paul, I mean, he finishes
his the last writing. The thought is that he did
in second Timothy chapter four. He's in prison, he's freezing cold.
He needs a coat and he's suffering. And he ends
up eventually, you know, being killed for the sake of Christ.
And so, you know, I think I think suffering, yes,
takes on a number of different ways. I when I
(38:22):
heard Rebecca tell her story, I was thinking about God's
grace in her life. Grace to get us to obedience.
I mean, the idea that she got to the place
where she says, okay, I shouldn't be with this guy.
This is not a healthy work. So God's grace pushes
us to obey. But then God's grace through obedience, and
then God's grace after the obedient step, you continue to
(38:45):
see that his grace is what we need to make it,
moment by moment of every day.
S1 (38:49):
I want to pick this up, this whole thought of
grace and really even finding finding encouragement in the midst
of the suffering. So, Lena, you stick and stay with us.
We got one more segment with Lena. That means you
got one more opportunity to call this number 888644 4144.
Hopefully our phone screeners will be overwhelmed by the number
(39:15):
of calls that you're making to get a copy of
Still Standing. We'll be right back. Are you worn out
by life's challenges? Do you struggle to see God's goodness
in your suffering? Still Standing by Lina Abujamra is a
powerful resource that will renew your hope and encourage you
through the hardest seasons and discover rewards you never dreamed of.
(39:38):
Request your copy of Still Standing. When you donate to equip,
call 888644 4144 or visit Equip Radio org. Chris Brooks here,
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded. While we won't
be taking calls, we do want to connect with you
(39:59):
on social media. Every Christian needs a handbook on suffering
how to survive it. Doctor Lina Abujamra writes in her
book Still Standing. It's only in the Lord's presence that
the wilderness of waiting becomes a place of great comfort.
Your wilderness of waiting can become a place of great comfort.
(40:19):
But you need a game plan. You need a strategy.
You need to know how to survive suffering. If not,
it could take you out. It could not only cause
you to have discouragement, but maybe even deconstructing to walk
away from your faith. Lena knows all about those challenges.
She's written a phenomenal book, and I really do believe
(40:41):
it's approachable, it's accessible, and it's something that will really
give you encouragement and wisdom on how to look to
God as your source of comfort. Still standing, following Jesus
even when it hurts. Go to our website, equip radio
right now. Look for the book. It's clearly there. You
(41:01):
can get your copy or dial the number 888644 4144.
Not just for you, but get a copy for someone
you love and you know is going through suffering. Lena,
just with a few moments left, I want you to
talk about this concept in the book of not missing
the breadcrumbs of Grace. What do you mean by that?
S2 (41:24):
God in his goodness. Even in the seasons where you
know the season of suffering or things happen constantly, those little,
little markers along the way. Of course, the book was
one of my favorites growing up. But, you know, they
put these little breadcrumbs along the way to make sure
they remember the way back. And of course, in the
story there, and I think this is actually a good
(41:46):
spiritual illustration, if Satan wants to come and remove those,
those markers, inevitably God keeps adding them. And so so
God may give you a verse. This is why Scripture
memory is so good. A little reminder of grace. But
I also think God actually does tangible things like just
this last six months I feel like I've gone. Our
ministry has gone through some trials of unusual proportion, literally.
(42:07):
And in the middle of it, as we've been walking
through those things. And, you know, not you don't always
advertise all of the the stuff that you're walking through.
But it has been I think every person on our
ministry team can tell you that despite the heaviness that
we're walking through, we see little things, like like a
phone call to a person who shows up on time
to help you out of a disaster, that you're stuck
(42:27):
and it's the perfect person. They're pleasant, and you start
to see things with fresh eyes that are tainted by
the goodness of God, you know? And so you feel
and you see that the situation you're in seems above
and beyond what you can handle. There's such a clear marker,
little breadcrumbs of grace, where God, it's almost like God
is whispering to you.
S6 (42:48):
Well, you know.
S2 (42:49):
I still see you.
S1 (42:50):
You know the other part about that, those little bread crumbs,
crumbs of grace. I you know, I preach recently to
our staff here a message out of First Kings 18,
where Elijah, after telling in chapter 17 King Ahab that
there was going to be a drought, he says, hey,
it's going to rain now. And he goes up to
(43:11):
a mountain to pray to God, to send the rain.
And he sends out his servant to say, what do
you see? And his servant says, I don't see anything.
And he sends him back seven times. This happens. Then
on the seventh time he says, I see a small
cloud the size of a man's hand. And my encouragement
to our staff was, hey, we got to rejoice over
small clouds. Sometimes it's not going to be a huge cloud.
(43:33):
Sometimes it's not going to be a huge downpouring. But
we have to rejoice over those small signs of God's grace.
But the thing that I do think suffering does for me, Lina,
is I am prone to the lie of self sufficiency.
And what suffering does for me is reminds me of
two great dependencies I have my dependency upon God and
(43:58):
my dependency upon God's people that he's placed in my life.
That's not a bad thing, is it?
S2 (44:04):
No. And, you know, you bring up Chris. I mean,
this is the church. Our relationship as American Christians with
the local church has hurt in the last few years.
And I think you are right on the money. The
purpose of the church is to encourage one another to
build each other up. And and I urge anyone who's
listening who is like, man, I've been there, done that.
(44:25):
I'm not going back. Listen, you need the local church.
If there's anyone who understands kind of putting the church
at arm's length, I pray that you would soften your
heart to give it another go, because you need the
people of God in any way or form that they come.
And so find a small group, find people who are
studying the word together and um, and yes, the Word
(44:48):
of God and the presence of God in our life.
Just look, I wouldn't be here without that. You hit
the nail at the beginning of the show, Chris, you
mentioned how you know, I can't. Every book I've written
addresses this topic that we're talking about today, which is
life is hard in Christ, but he is so good
and there's so much evidence of that. If we would
just let go of the reins and go on this
(45:10):
ride that he's inviting us on. And I'm just I
just love telling, uh, yeah, it's been hard, but God's
been near me and I'm closer to him today than
I was five, ten, 15 years ago.
S1 (45:21):
Yeah. Can I can I just commend you for something
before I let you run? Um, we have both been
through a lot of suffering, just like a lot of
the folks who are listening to us right now. It
takes a unique grace to be able to write about it.
I've had people who've pulled me to the side and say, hey,
you should write a book about what you've gone through.
And I've looked back at them like, uh, that is
(45:42):
not what I want to do right now. Writing a
book about it is is really, really hard. Because what
it means by necessity is that you got to talk
about it. You got to talk about it a lot.
And yet God is giving you the grace. And we
all have benefited from your obedience to Jesus. So I
just want to say, as your brother in Christ, who
cheers for you and thanks God for you. Thank you
(46:05):
for being obedient. I know it calls for vulnerability. Every
book costs something and you have paid a price for it.
But yet on the other side of that obedience. Many
are being encouraged. So if you don't mind, Doctor Lina,
I'd love to pray for you. And I want to
invite all of those who are listening right now to
join me in praying for our dear sister. Thank you
(46:28):
for living with power. Thank you for the ministry. God.
Although they face much, I pray that you would surprise
them with your grace. I pray that you would surprise
them with your goodness. And I pray, Lord, that through
it all that even Lina would be reminded that you
are the comfort, that you are the gift, and that
you are the treasure. Bless Lina and her team and
(46:52):
bless this book to get into as many hands as possible.
In Jesus name, Amen and amen. Thanks, Elena. Friends, thank
you for being with us today. I can't wait to
wear together again next time. Until then, remember, equipped with
Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
of Moody Bible Institute.
Please enjoy this encore edition of equip with Chris Brooks. Well,
hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of equip
with Chris Brooks! I am so thrilled that you've joined
me today. Do me a favor, strap on your seatbelt.
We're going to navigate through the contours of culture, as
always with the lens of the biblical worldview on. But
before we do that, let me remind you, this is
(00:38):
the day that the Lord has made. He has given
it as a gift so that you and I can
rejoice and be glad in it. So let's do just that.
Let's follow the words of the Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice
in the Lord always. And again I say, rejoice! I
hope you're doing well today, and I hope that you
are trusting in Jesus. Today we want to have a
(00:59):
conversation about how to handle the hard parts and the
difficult seasons of our faith journey. You know, every one
of us, when we say yes to Jesus, assume that, uh,
that means that the blessings of God will flow and
kind of an unimpeded, unhindered way. And we may not
(01:20):
talk about it openly, but I think all of us
come with this vision of what the Christian life will
be like. And depending on the type of tradition and
preaching that you have been exposed to, maybe it was
a pretty optimistic vision that, man, I'm going to come
to God and not only are my sins going to
be forgiven, but all wrongs are going to be made right.
(01:40):
All difficulties are going to be reconciled, and and healing
is going to come. And in large part that's true
is certainly true. But what we often don't think about
are the difficulties that will come along with obeying Jesus,
the sufferings that are a part of the Christian faith,
(02:03):
the taking up our cross and following him. And you know,
it's not that the Bible doesn't talk about those things.
The Bible is is very open, transparent, and Transparency has
a rich theology of how to handle suffering in Christ's
faithfulness to us in the valley. But yet for many
of us, that's not a part of what we were
(02:25):
sold when we came to faith. And and if you
didn't factor those seasons in, man, when you experience a
season where God feels distant and things feel difficult and
days are hard, it can be very disorienting, very discouraging,
and you can find yourself questioning your faith, doubting God's
love for you, or maybe even the reality of his
(02:49):
existence or even your salvation. And maybe you find yourself
in a place right now where you're saying, where are you, God?
And how could you let this happen? And this does
not seem to fit your promises. Well, if that's you today,
you have tuned in to the right program. On the
right day. We're going to talk about suffering today, the
(03:10):
book that we're going to feature. And really all month long,
we're featuring this phenomenal resource. It's called Still Standing Following
Jesus even when it hurts. My guest today is one
of our favorite guests, Doctor Lina Abujamra. You guys know Lina.
She's not only a pediatric ER doctor, but she also
(03:30):
is a wonderful Bible teacher, awesome podcaster, and a tremendous
conference speaker. She's the author of several books. I think
I've gotten a chance to interview her on all of them,
and it's always a blessing whenever, whenever Lina is able
to stop by. Equipped. Hey, Lina. How are you?
S2 (03:49):
Chris, it's so good to be back on the show
with you, to have you back. And you're right. I
think you have talked to me about every one of
the books, and I am grateful. Love being here.
S1 (03:58):
Well, I'm a huge living with power, uh, fan. And
I'm so grateful for your ministry. For those who don't
know your ministry, maybe being introduced to you for the
first time, can you talk a little bit about living
with power.
S2 (04:12):
Of course, I was doing my fellowship in pediatric emergency
medicine when I felt God's call to teach the Bible,
and it came at a season that was a lot
of deep pain, sort of my first spiritual crisis where
I was like, Is God really there? You know, what's
going on? And so out of that, the Lord healed me.
We can delve into that, uh, during, uh, later on
(04:33):
in the show. But basically, I really sensed God, um,
open opportunities that were really, uh, surprising in a way.
And I started teaching the Bible in church, and I
just fell in love with that. I felt like finally
I knew the gift that God had given me. You know,
people talk about spiritual gifts, and sometimes you're not sure
what yours is. You take all these quizzes, and I
really sort of could tell that this is what I
was created to do. And the Lord allowed me to,
(04:55):
with the years, do more and more teaching and eventually
started a ministry. Um, based on this premise of providing
biblical truth for everyday life, not knowing, you know, I
had a I had a thought of what God wanted
me to do, but I really didn't have the full picture.
It would take several years later, after serving in a
local church as a women's ministry director and starting to
write books and sort of thinking my world was going
(05:17):
to be women's ministry, that God would open a new
venue for me to start doing, um, medical work in
the Middle East, in my own home country, where I
was born, Lebanon, and, uh, started working with Syrian refugees.
And then over the years, the Lebanese went through their
own mess with the big explosion in 2020. And so
the Lord just continued to grow our work there. So
(05:37):
we kind of have two branches in our ministry. We
do discipleship to all people, singles and women, and whoever
is interested in practical, biblical truth for everyday living. And
that includes, uh, podcasts, books, speaking, as you mentioned, in
the introduction. And then we of course, serve now, not
just in the Middle East, but also in Uganda, providing
(05:57):
all sorts of humanitarian aid with the goal of reaching
people for Christ. And it's been amazing to see what
God has done their.
S1 (06:05):
Part doctor, part missionary, part Bible teacher. All of it
for the glory of God. And I am so grateful
for your ministry. I was telling you that before we
we started. But I want to dive into this book because, man,
I come to this moment. I think many of our
listeners know I come to this moment and honestly, a
(06:27):
really difficult season in our own life as our daughter
journeys through, uh, this, this cancer journey and treatments and
a lot of hospital visits. So that's what's going on
in my own personal life. But then I think about
the last 48 hours or so, last 48 hours. I
had a pastor friend who emailed me saying, hey, I
just want you to know, my mom was just diagnosed
(06:50):
with stage four pancreatic cancer, got a family member who
we love dearly, who's son is going through a really
difficult season. And then I got friends who we love
dearly who are really, uh, having a challenging season in
their marriage right now. And I thought to myself, man,
(07:11):
what a gift to be able to give to them
in this book. What a gift to be able to
put into their hands, because I think that what is
true for us, Lena, is that 100% of us are
going to go through seasons of suffering. So I would
love to just hear your heart. Why did you write
the book? What was your motivation and what's your your
(07:34):
hope for those who read it?
S2 (07:36):
You know, it's been my experience as a Christian that
a lot of things we understand in theory, but somehow
just doesn't translate into it's not that we don't believe them,
it's just somehow we think we'll be an exception to
the rule. And I feel like in a sense, I
did not grow up in a side of the church
that was prosperity driven at all. In fact, I you know,
I believed that Jesus said that there would be persecution
(07:59):
and suffering. I mean, I grew up in Beirut, for goodness.
S3 (08:02):
Sakes, you know. Right.
S2 (08:04):
But but it just felt like on one scale, it
felt like it would be that type of persecution and
suffering meaning, you know, not so much personal. Like there's
bad people out there, there's a war out there, things happen.
But but I didn't foresee sort of how the difficulty
could be so personal. Like your kid suffering for me, my,
my watching these trials that my nieces and nephews go
(08:25):
through who are like my kids or, you know, my
own life, like, you know, my first crisis had to
do with a broken engagement, but really led to the
loss of a relationship that I thought would be the
person that I would marry.
S3 (08:36):
And yeah.
S2 (08:36):
And then now at 53, still not married. And of course,
that's its own worst, you know, type of suffering and, and,
but the incessant pressure of other things like, like I
delved into the world of ministry and I thought, well,
now I'm doing ministry. So of course, God's going to
protect and bless. And, you know, you hear sermons about
how Satan, if you go into ministry, you've got a
target on your back and Satan's attacking you. But but
(08:58):
you sort of have this romantic, I don't even want
to say romanticize this, this human A pretation of what
God's goodness looks like. And in our American mind, God's
goodness looks like comfort.
S3 (09:13):
Yeah.
S2 (09:13):
And and it's it's it's not that God isn't a God.
God is. This is the this is the the magic
bullet that I think we miss. God is the God
of comfort. He doesn't just provide you circumstantial comfort. I
think that's the filter that has to be removed. I'm
constantly looking for comfortable circumstances. What God spends our entire
(09:35):
Christian life doing is give us his comfort, his presence, his.
S3 (09:39):
Spirit, his.
S2 (09:41):
Power. And and that is not experienced or learned or
tasted until you walk through a desert season, a wilderness period,
these painful circumstances. And I think this is the tension
of how do you understand a God? Like if he's
God in your father, why would he allow these bad
things to happen? And I think that's why I wrote
(10:02):
the book, because I have come to know over the years,
though my suffering in some ways pales to other people's suffering.
But again, who rates sufferings like you can't? That's not
even a fair thing. You know what people are going through.
It's not, you know what I could be going through
might be less painful to you, but very painful to you. Again,
you can't compare pain. It's like walking in the air
and trying to decide who hurts the most, you know? But, um,
(10:24):
but I think in it, the consistent, steadfast theme that
I have learned is that there is a God who
cares and who loves us, and who knows exactly what.
We need to be awakened to his love and presence
and intimate communion.
S1 (10:38):
All right. So here's what I want to do, because
you just said some very, very profound things, and you
say it almost so, um, so, so comfortably that it's
easy to miss, right? Because these are things that, let's
be honest, you've thought deeply about, so deeply about that
you've written about it, you've walked this journey with the Lord.
(11:00):
And so for some that are living in the crises
right now. Here's what I want to do. I want
to just just open up the phone lines first. For
those who are going through any type of suffering, what
would Lena says, both as an ER doctor and as
a Bible teacher? Is that the suffering that you and
I go through can be as varied as we are.
(11:21):
So for some it is the health crises of a
loved one that you care for deeply. For some it's
it's your marriage crises. For some, it's navigating seasons of
singleness that are elongated or maybe difficult with all the
pressures that come along with that. For others, it's your
wayward child. Wherever you find yourself today, we'd love to
(11:45):
be your prayer partner. I would love to come alongside
of you and pray because it's not a coincidence you're
listening right now. So 8775675. That's the number 877548 75.
It is not a coincidence that you're listening today. As
(12:05):
we're talking about suffering. God sees you and he wants
you to know his love and his care. 877548 3675.
But the other thing that I want to do today
is I want to put this resource into as many
hands as possible. I wish I could airdrop this to
every home in America, but you can be you can
(12:28):
be the person who gets this resource. And not only
does it help you to rekindle your faith after crises,
but maybe you're the person who puts it in somebody
else's hand. So all month long, a gift of any amount.
If you go to our website, equip radio.org equipped radio.org,
(12:50):
go to our website, get your copy of Still Standing.
Your trial was never meant to take you out. Your
faith is meant to be stronger Longer. Even on the
other side of a difficult season. We're going to come
right back right after this. Next up on equip. The
(13:12):
Bible offers victory over sin and Satan, but even strong
Christians can feel discouraged or even distant from God. If
that's where you find yourself today, may I encourage you
to get a copy of Still Standing by Lina Abujamra.
Lina has walked this road and knows that suffering isn't
a detour. It's often the very path God uses to
(13:34):
transform us. We'll send you a copy of Still Standing.
When you support equip this month, simply call 888644 4144
or visit Equip Radio org. Today's program has been prerecorded
so our phone lines are not open. 8775675 is the
(13:55):
number equipped with Chris Brooks? Is it possible to have
a vibrant faith even after or during seasons of suffering? Well,
the answer that Lena Abujamra gives in her book Still Standing,
is yes. But the key is knowing that God doesn't
just give us circumstantial comfort. No, he is the comfort.
(14:20):
He is our comforter. Let's go to the phone lines. Lena,
Jeff is listening in the Chicago area. Hey, Jeff, thank
you so much for listening to equip. How can I
pray for you today?
S4 (14:35):
Greetings. How are you doing today?
S1 (14:36):
Doing well. Brother. Thanks for calling.
S4 (14:39):
Oh, I got an incredible story of God's grace. Stage
four pancreatic cancer that was, uh, metastasized to liver and spleen. Inoperable.
By God's grace, after multiple rounds of chemo, 12 rounds,
they'd see shrinkage. I went from inoperable to operable. They
took it out again. Oh, again. By all. By God's grace.
(15:01):
Took out the spleen, gallbladder, lymph nodes. This size portion
of the liver, two thirds of the pancreas.
S1 (15:09):
Wow.
S3 (15:10):
Wow.
S4 (15:10):
And it's been cleaned so far. We're coming up on
a one year Pet scan.
S3 (15:15):
Wow.
S4 (15:16):
And we're praying for that to be clear. It's by
God's strength. I believe he's got a story for me
to tell. Some people may consider this suffering, but this
has been the most incredible time of sharing what God
has done and opening doors. And I just ask for prayer. Yeah.
That that Pet scan would be clear. But more than that,
that I'd never shrink back from telling his story of
(15:37):
his grace and how he wants his gospel. What I'm
going through is my testimony of his story, and I
want people to hear his story.
S1 (15:47):
Well, first off, let me let me just say, brother,
to God be the glory. And, uh, I'm super grateful
that you've called in today. I want to pray for
you and then give Lina opportunity. Opportunity? Uh, just to
to share as well. But, father, we thank you for Jeff.
We thank you for the doctors, the medical team, the
(16:07):
medicine that has worked, by your grace, on his body.
We know you're the maker of all these things, ultimately. But, Lord,
I am even more encouraged by the clear strength of
his faith, his joy in Jesus, in spite of the
difficulties of the journey and his deep sense of your
(16:28):
calling on his life. I agree with him that you, Lord,
want to use him to share his testimony with others,
and to be able to remind people of your faithfulness
in all things. So, Lord, for this upcoming Pet scan, uh,
I do pray for just a continued testimony of healing
(16:51):
and your grace and and just a good report there.
But I pray also, Lord, that you would open up
doors that no man can shut, so that my brother
can use his testimony to point people to Jesus. Bless Jeff,
I pray in Jesus name. Amen and amen. Uh, I
think what stands out to me, Lena, when I listen
(17:13):
to Jeff, is just the fact that his faith seems
to be, uh, just as strong, if not stronger on
the other side of the crisis he's been through. How
is that possible in your assessment, Lena?
S3 (17:26):
Well, it's possible.
S2 (17:27):
Because of the Holy Spirit. Look. There's four. I was
thinking about this, Jeff, when you were telling us your story.
I mean, four places, major places in the New Testament
that trials are mentioned in. James mentions and Peter mentions them. Romans.
Paul mentions them. And then there's a little anecdote, story
of in the New Testament where Peter and John are
beat up in prison and, and in every time that
(17:48):
those major sufferings and trials are mentioned, there's this concept
of rejoicing that's tied into it. And I believe with
all my heart that it is the power of the
resurrection of the of the Christ that we worship, that
allows us to experience that. In fact, the the believers
in the two, the the two men who were beat up,
they left sort of that experience saying that they were
(18:10):
they rejoiced that they were found worthy to suffer for
the sake of Christ. And in a sense, again, this
is our modern day form of a certain degree of suffering.
It is suffering. And you could say, you know, Jeff,
that you you is it suffering? Of course it is.
But your joy is that you're bearing it in the
body of Christ, so to speak, like you're given the
strength that Christ only can give. And so I as
(18:31):
a doctor, I hear the story in pancreatic cancer, the
stages that you mentioned. And I think this is a
miracle and that God can use a man like Jeff
right now in the medical community to shed the love
of Christ, to be the aroma of Christ. It's just incredible.
And it's really the purpose of our life, right? Is
that's why we're here on Earth. At the end of
the day, it's to point to Jesus and the glory
of his goodness in the middle of our suffering. That's
(18:53):
what moves people. Not that we, you know, everybody suffers.
Not that we have a suffering free life because that
doesn't connect. Every human suffers, but it's that in the
middle of it, we can point to someone bigger and
better in our life. That makes it all worthwhile.
S1 (19:06):
Maybe you know someone who is suffering right now. Unexpected
loss of a loved one, unexpected diagnoses, facing a parental crisis.
Why don't you get a copy of Lena's book for them?
You can go to our website equipped radio.org that's equipped radio.org.
Or you can call this number if it's more convenient
(19:28):
for you. 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144. I was thinking
about the Apostle Paul. I don't know if any figure
in Scripture has ever gotten quite a unique call to
ministry as Paul did. In. It's in acts. I'm looking
(19:52):
in the book of acts, chapter nine and in verse
number 15, God speaking to Ananias, this disciple, well respected disciple.
He tells him to go to Paul. And Paul at
that point was the equivalent of a religious terrorist. I mean,
he was terrorizing the early followers of of Jesus. So
(20:13):
you can imagine the trepidation, nervousness that Ananias would feel. Lina.
And God says this to Ananias. But the Lord said
to him, go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine,
to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and
the children of Israel. For I will show him how
(20:34):
much he must suffer for the sake of my name.
Can you imagine that your your calling on the front end,
that God calls you and it tells you a lot
about Paul's character, that he could be called that way
and still say say yes. But it just reminds me,
(20:54):
and I'd love for you to talk about this, that
even for those who are called to obedience, that obedience
does not mean you won't suffer, does it? That just
because you're doing the very thing that God called you
to do? I think sometimes we feel like, well, God,
you told me to marry this person and I did.
Now I'm suffering. You told me to take this job,
(21:15):
now I'm suffering. You told me to have these kids.
You blessed me with these children. Now I'm suffering. Obedience
doesn't mean you won't suffer, does it?
S2 (21:24):
Not even. Yeah. I mean, this is really the premise
of my book is it's written for a Christian audience
that basically, um, there's this unspoken assumption that we develop
that because I'm following God's will, I'm spared certain pains
in life. Right? I mean, this is sort of our
our intuitive conclusion. And it's not biblical. It's, as you said,
Paul's such a great example of it, but we see
(21:45):
it over and over again in Scripture. I mean, I'm
reading through Elijah in the Old Testament and like, you know,
right after, um, right after he goes to the king
and tells him that there's going to be a drought.
I mean, he God provides for him at the beginning
and within, you know, days, basically the water dries up,
you know, so he he was walking in obedience. And
we see this pattern again and again. Um, Abraham, as
(22:06):
soon as he said yes to God to follow him
out of Haran, um, it doesn't take long before a
famine hits. And now he has to figure out what
to do. And so the Lord, I believe, gifts us
with these opportunities to learn to trust him. It's it's
his way of showing us that he is the most
valuable thing. And and again, I think we sort of
understand that biblically, but we don't translate it into our
(22:29):
real life. And and here's the other thing. It's it
doesn't God doesn't teach it once and it's like, okay,
now you took the class, you're done. You graduated. It continues.
It gets worse with time.
S5 (22:41):
And I say this, I laugh too, because it's.
S2 (22:43):
Not even there's a point, I think at some point
and I feel like to a certain degree, I think
I'm in that stage where I now I finally get it. Like,
it's not going to stop. But what has changed? Meaning
the suffering might not stop. It'll come in different colors
and format and variety and ways. And and a lot
of it is because of the broken world we're in.
And some of the suffering is meant to, you know,
(23:04):
there's all sorts of things you can talk about.
S5 (23:05):
Suffering, but.
S2 (23:06):
Ultimately, ultimately, the number one goal that God has in
suffering is to help us experience his presence and his
power more deeply in our life. That is it. That's it.
There's nothing. Everything else fades. If you know Christ, you
know this life is passing. Now let's just delight in
him and sort of be freed of the burden of
(23:27):
having to fix the problem, thinking that if we fix
the problem, our joy will be complete. No, your joy
is complete right now, no matter what your problem is.
If you're finding your joy in a perfect Savior who
has promised to never leave you nor forsake.
S6 (23:41):
You, the.
S1 (23:42):
Website is equipped. Excuse me. Equipped Equip radio. Org that's
equip radio. Let's go back to the phone lines. Brenda
is listening in Illinois. Hey Brenda, thank you so much
for listening to equip. How can we pray for you today?
S7 (23:57):
I was just listening to I was just coming home
from work. I said, wow, she talking right up my alley,
you know?
S1 (24:02):
Yeah, all of us.
S7 (24:03):
All of us kids. I was like, wow, she hit
so many things. Like, what do I ask for? You know? But, um,
I would like to pray for my prodigal children. Both
of them. They was raised in church, but as they
got older and they moved out and they went their way,
you know, I can't make them go to church now,
but I would just all I can do is pray
(24:24):
for them that God will restore them back unto him.
S1 (24:28):
Alright, let's.
S7 (24:29):
Standing in the gap. Like you say, you being obedient
and it's just like God. When. When God when?
S1 (24:36):
Yeah. Well, first off, I'm so grateful for you calling in.
And as I said earlier, Brenda, it's not coincidence that
you're listening today. God sees you and he also sees
your kids, and he loves them so much more than
we ever could. And, uh, and he's able to put
witnesses in their pathway. I won't try to give you
(24:58):
a false sense of quickness of how this prayer will
be answered, but I do trust God's faithfulness, and I
believe that God hears the prayers appearance. So let's pray together. Father,
I thank you for Brenda. I thank you for a
mom who trusts you, who loves you, and who carries
her children in her heart. And Lord, right now, her
(25:19):
number one desire and concern is for them to come
to you. And so, Lord, won't you be gracious as
you were with the prodigal. I pray that you would
bring home her children, bring them to yourself, restore relationship
with her, and allow them to be able to rejoice
in like precious faith. Lord, you're the God of salvation.
(25:41):
It belongs to you. So we ask that you would
do it not just for Brenda, but for all the
parents who are listening, who have children that are far
from you. We pray for salvation. In Jesus name, Amen
and amen. Maybe today is the day of your salvation.
If you have yet to make Jesus Christ your Lord
to surrender your heart, let today be the day where
(26:04):
you embrace his grace and turn to him. Give us
a call 8775675. We'll be right back. Chris Brooks here
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and we won't
be taking your calls. Welcome back to equipped with Chris Brooks.
(26:28):
Today we're talking about surviving suffering all month long. We're
featuring Doctor Leana Abu-jamal's wonderful book, Still Standing following Jesus
even when it hurts. Maybe you find yourself going through
a crisis. Physically. Relationally. Socially. In your career. And yet,
(26:50):
it's possible for your faith to not only survive, but
to thrive. And it comes when we understand that Jesus
is our comfort, and that he wants to reveal a
deeper understanding of his goodness and grace to us as
we walk through trials. We'd love to get this resource
into your hands. A gift of any amount to equip
(27:11):
all month long. We'll send it over to you. The
phone number 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144 or go to
equip radio Dot Lena. Before we go back to the
phone lines, I want you to talk about this condition.
I think we've all suffered from at some point in
(27:34):
our journey called spiritual amnesia. What is that and how
do we recover from it.
S2 (27:41):
Yeah, man. This is, uh, luckily, not a tournament one.
It's curable. Yes. Let's put it that way. So it's.
But it is. Unfortunately, it's like a pandemic. That is
the real Christian pandemic. Uh, Paul Tripp talks a lot
about that. He's a wonderful author, as you know. Um,
but but it we forget, you know, and in fact,
(28:02):
we're not the first people to forget, right? Amnesia is
just forgetting what God has done. And so, um, everything.
And think about the Old Testament, like the entire Old
Testament is the same thing over and over again. It's
people who forget who God is and what God has done,
and it's God reminding the people of who he is
and what he has been doing and continues to do.
And so we see the same thing. Sometimes it baffles
(28:23):
your mind. You're like, wait, I don't understand how. I mean,
even Abraham, I mentioned him earlier in the show. He,
you know, the famine hits, he goes to Egypt, and
then a few pages later, famine hits again. And even
though he's he should have learned the lesson. He does
it again. He goes back to Egypt and again, you
see it over and over again in Scripture, so don't
feel bad if it's happening to you. On one hand.
On the other hand, let's learn. You know, I mean,
(28:45):
wisdom is learning from our own mistakes. And I think
the way we learn, the way God teaches us, is
to put us in situations that demand us to get
on our knees, to seek him. And and I found
that the seasons in my life and again, I don't
think I'm alone where I am naturally drawn to God
as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus, I think
(29:07):
our response to pain is, of course, first to try
to fix it because we forget, and then to complain
about it because we forget, sort of like the people
of Israel. And eventually you get to the place where
you can do nothing, where you finally let go and say, God,
I need you, I need you, I need you. And
that is precisely where he can do his best work.
(29:28):
Because at that point, God doesn't chide us and say, well,
I can't believe you didn't remember who I am, and
I can't believe you aren't turning to your Bible and,
you know, quoting the verse. On the contrary, free. God,
like a loving father, holds us in his arms and
comforts us and gently looks us in the eyes, if
I may use that. I mean, obviously it's it's, you know,
not a fact in a sense that he's you're not
(29:49):
seeing him face to face yet, but it's like everything
you get this show on the radio when you're driving
right now, you might be listening, going, oh, that was
the last thing I expected to hear. And here you
are listening to the show. Or, you know, something pops
up in a conversation at work, but God reminds you
in a million different ways that he's still for you,
that he's not abandoning you, that he's with you in it.
And this is the goodness of God. This is it, right?
(30:13):
It's it's understanding that you're not left to do it
on your own. And so spiritual amnesia is, um, the
how you overcome it is by learning, practicing the habits
in your life of setting up a system, let's say
your quiet time, your spiritual disciplines in the morning, accountability,
going to church on Sundays, ways to constantly remind yourself
(30:35):
there's this God who loves me and cares for me.
I have to remember those things. And he.
S1 (30:41):
As a matter of fact, I was just going to
mention quickly, one of the things that I love about
your book is you really do get into the system
we need to put into our lives so that we
can not only survive, but recover after a crises, after
seasons of suffering. So you talk a lot about endurance,
(31:01):
about prayer, about grace, belief. It's really it's really helpful
and practical. So when you get this book, it's not
just theoretical. You're going to. Yes. Here to talk about
what is common to all of us, the sufferings and
challenges that we face. But you're going to have her
also lay out a plan of survival for you that
(31:23):
I think is super important. You know, you talk about
that spiritual amnesia. I just want to mention recently our
church celebrated our 70th anniversary as a church. And it's
that's that's great just to be able anything that lasts
70 years in this day and age, that's a testimony
of God's grace. But in preparation of that, you know,
(31:44):
I was studying Scripture and just saw this doctrine of
remembrance emerge. You know, these constant, uh, admonishments throughout Scripture
from beginning to end of, of remembrance that God doesn't
want his people to forget. And so in the Old Testament,
he gives these seven feasts, all designed to be annual
(32:06):
reminders to them to remember. Remember I brought you out
of Egypt. Remember I established you as a nation. Remember
I gave you the land. Remember I rescued you from
your enemies. So all this. And then by the time
we get to the New Testament, he gives us a
meal and says this. Do in remembrance of me. I
(32:27):
think that God knows his people are prone to forget
every single one of us, and hopefully what communion is
in your local church setting and you need a local
church is an opportunity regularly to remember, to remember that
God is not only a promise. Giving God a promise,
(32:49):
keeping God. If you want to get a copy of
the book, go to our website. Equip radio. Dial this
number 888644 4144. It might just be the best call
you've made all day. Let's go to Rebecca, who's listening
also in Chicago. Rebecca, thank you so much for listening
to equip. How can we best pray for you today?
S8 (33:13):
Hi. Thanks so much for taking my my call. Um,
I guess I'm going to try to to not ramble
as I try to put my thoughts together on the radio. So, um,
I guess prayer. Um, it's more of a praise, I guess,
in in what I have to share. And my hope
is kind of if someone is listening who has a
(33:33):
similar situation, they can empathize. And, um, I guess one
of the points I want to make is, um, over
the the course of this past year, my family has
had a lot of, like, cut and dry, like black
and white big sufferings. Right? So loss of a family
member sickness where it's very, um, very obvious and upfront. Um, my,
(33:56):
a lot of my suffering this year came from, um,
a working in a toxic work environment that I was
desperate to get out of. It was affecting me, um,
months and months and months. I tried to get out.
Didn't work. Um, until, by God's grace, uh, a position
opened up at my church and mission. So I'll be
moving into ministry. Um, but in that time, too, um,
(34:21):
one of the the things that was such a point
of turmoil for me was, uh, as I was in
this toxic workplace, the one, uh, quote unquote bright light
in that workplace was my coworker, and, uh, he is
a great guy. Not a Christian. I'm a single woman. Um,
and all of that, we I knew it was not
(34:44):
a good idea, but I got involved, and that was
not good, and that caused a lot of turmoil. Um,
so it was quite a season until now of I'm
in this workplace. It's such a struggle. I'm desperate to
get out. I'm. I'm with this guy, and now I
know he's not a Christian. I'm a Christian. I want
(35:05):
to love God, but he's here. And it was just
it has been such a time of emotional struggle, of
trying to figure out even just how to how to
manage this. And by by God's grace. Um, I mean,
I did end things with this man, uh, a few
(35:25):
days ago, uh, right before I go into ministry. So
I'm like, yeah, that needed to happen, but, um, it
was such a, um, such a rough, rough time. In comparison,
I guess, to, like I said, my the other kind
of black and white sufferings, this was really, I mean,
getting down to the nitty gritty of what I was
suffering with on a day to day basis.
S1 (35:46):
You know, I want to jump in here, Rebecca, because
first off, thank you for being so honest, being so,
so vulnerable. But I think she brings up different types
of sufferings that we often don't think about. Man. Lena,
the the pain of being in a toxic workplace where
you got to go every single day, man, that is
(36:08):
a type of suffering that so often you don't hear
preached about that much. But when you're living through it,
that is almost torturous. Secondly, the pain of being in
a relationship that, you know, man, this is not healthy,
this is not God honoring. That's another type of suffering.
(36:30):
And so as you hear, uh, Rebecca, share this. For
people who are going through that, people who say, uh, Lena,
I appreciate what you're what you're saying, and I appreciate
the book, but I don't see this ending anytime fast.
What do you say to them when the prognosis seems
to be that this won't be just for a day
(36:51):
or for a short time, but this might be for
a really long season that you're in this.
S2 (36:57):
It may never end. I don't say this to I mean,
I'm an ER doctor through and through in that setting.
It's like better to tell the truth than to sugarcoat it,
because I think if you hear the truth, then you
don't think you're the exception to the rule. But a
case in point, I mean, Johnny Erickson taught us she
popped up in my Instagram today and she had a
picture of her cancer. It's cancer celebration month or, you know, whatever.
And I didn't recognize at first the bald woman in
(37:18):
the picture. And then I flipped over and I go,
oh my gosh, it's Johnny. I forgot that she had
had cancer twice, in addition to being in a wheelchair
since 17. Like, how does God. Why? And she writes
this caption that's mind boggling about how she wouldn't trade
it for anything, and how you. And there's not a
human on this planet that I have seen exude more
(37:38):
joy than Johnny. Right. She impacted my life when I
was ten, and I watched her movie back when I
lived in Lebanon. To this day, I am probably where
I am, partly because of her story. And so, you know,
I think the idea that I'm going to make it
until it ends, I think we need to destroy that
notion from our from our minds in that it may end,
and I hope it does. Some people have their Lazarus
(38:00):
come out of the tomb, you know, raised from the dead.
But others, like the Apostle Paul, I mean, he finishes
his the last writing. The thought is that he did
in second Timothy chapter four. He's in prison, he's freezing cold.
He needs a coat and he's suffering. And he ends
up eventually, you know, being killed for the sake of Christ.
And so, you know, I think I think suffering, yes,
takes on a number of different ways. I when I
(38:22):
heard Rebecca tell her story, I was thinking about God's
grace in her life. Grace to get us to obedience.
I mean, the idea that she got to the place
where she says, okay, I shouldn't be with this guy.
This is not a healthy work. So God's grace pushes
us to obey. But then God's grace through obedience, and
then God's grace after the obedient step, you continue to
(38:45):
see that his grace is what we need to make it,
moment by moment of every day.
S1 (38:49):
I want to pick this up, this whole thought of
grace and really even finding finding encouragement in the midst
of the suffering. So, Lena, you stick and stay with us.
We got one more segment with Lena. That means you
got one more opportunity to call this number 888644 4144.
Hopefully our phone screeners will be overwhelmed by the number
(39:15):
of calls that you're making to get a copy of
Still Standing. We'll be right back. Are you worn out
by life's challenges? Do you struggle to see God's goodness
in your suffering? Still Standing by Lina Abujamra is a
powerful resource that will renew your hope and encourage you
through the hardest seasons and discover rewards you never dreamed of.
(39:38):
Request your copy of Still Standing. When you donate to equip,
call 888644 4144 or visit Equip Radio org. Chris Brooks here,
reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded. While we won't
be taking calls, we do want to connect with you
(39:59):
on social media. Every Christian needs a handbook on suffering
how to survive it. Doctor Lina Abujamra writes in her
book Still Standing. It's only in the Lord's presence that
the wilderness of waiting becomes a place of great comfort.
Your wilderness of waiting can become a place of great comfort.
(40:19):
But you need a game plan. You need a strategy.
You need to know how to survive suffering. If not,
it could take you out. It could not only cause
you to have discouragement, but maybe even deconstructing to walk
away from your faith. Lena knows all about those challenges.
She's written a phenomenal book, and I really do believe
(40:41):
it's approachable, it's accessible, and it's something that will really
give you encouragement and wisdom on how to look to
God as your source of comfort. Still standing, following Jesus
even when it hurts. Go to our website, equip radio
right now. Look for the book. It's clearly there. You
(41:01):
can get your copy or dial the number 888644 4144.
Not just for you, but get a copy for someone
you love and you know is going through suffering. Lena,
just with a few moments left, I want you to
talk about this concept in the book of not missing
the breadcrumbs of Grace. What do you mean by that?
S2 (41:24):
God in his goodness. Even in the seasons where you
know the season of suffering or things happen constantly, those little,
little markers along the way. Of course, the book was
one of my favorites growing up. But, you know, they
put these little breadcrumbs along the way to make sure
they remember the way back. And of course, in the
story there, and I think this is actually a good
(41:46):
spiritual illustration, if Satan wants to come and remove those,
those markers, inevitably God keeps adding them. And so so
God may give you a verse. This is why Scripture
memory is so good. A little reminder of grace. But
I also think God actually does tangible things like just
this last six months I feel like I've gone. Our
ministry has gone through some trials of unusual proportion, literally.
(42:07):
And in the middle of it, as we've been walking
through those things. And, you know, not you don't always
advertise all of the the stuff that you're walking through.
But it has been I think every person on our
ministry team can tell you that despite the heaviness that
we're walking through, we see little things, like like a
phone call to a person who shows up on time
to help you out of a disaster, that you're stuck
(42:27):
and it's the perfect person. They're pleasant, and you start
to see things with fresh eyes that are tainted by
the goodness of God, you know? And so you feel
and you see that the situation you're in seems above
and beyond what you can handle. There's such a clear marker,
little breadcrumbs of grace, where God, it's almost like God
is whispering to you.
S6 (42:48):
Well, you know.
S2 (42:49):
I still see you.
S1 (42:50):
You know the other part about that, those little bread crumbs,
crumbs of grace. I you know, I preach recently to
our staff here a message out of First Kings 18,
where Elijah, after telling in chapter 17 King Ahab that
there was going to be a drought, he says, hey,
it's going to rain now. And he goes up to
(43:11):
a mountain to pray to God, to send the rain.
And he sends out his servant to say, what do
you see? And his servant says, I don't see anything.
And he sends him back seven times. This happens. Then
on the seventh time he says, I see a small
cloud the size of a man's hand. And my encouragement
to our staff was, hey, we got to rejoice over
small clouds. Sometimes it's not going to be a huge cloud.
(43:33):
Sometimes it's not going to be a huge downpouring. But
we have to rejoice over those small signs of God's grace.
But the thing that I do think suffering does for me, Lina,
is I am prone to the lie of self sufficiency.
And what suffering does for me is reminds me of
two great dependencies I have my dependency upon God and
(43:58):
my dependency upon God's people that he's placed in my life.
That's not a bad thing, is it?
S2 (44:04):
No. And, you know, you bring up Chris. I mean,
this is the church. Our relationship as American Christians with
the local church has hurt in the last few years.
And I think you are right on the money. The
purpose of the church is to encourage one another to
build each other up. And and I urge anyone who's
listening who is like, man, I've been there, done that.
(44:25):
I'm not going back. Listen, you need the local church.
If there's anyone who understands kind of putting the church
at arm's length, I pray that you would soften your
heart to give it another go, because you need the
people of God in any way or form that they come.
And so find a small group, find people who are
studying the word together and um, and yes, the Word
(44:48):
of God and the presence of God in our life.
Just look, I wouldn't be here without that. You hit
the nail at the beginning of the show, Chris, you
mentioned how you know, I can't. Every book I've written
addresses this topic that we're talking about today, which is
life is hard in Christ, but he is so good
and there's so much evidence of that. If we would
just let go of the reins and go on this
(45:10):
ride that he's inviting us on. And I'm just I
just love telling, uh, yeah, it's been hard, but God's
been near me and I'm closer to him today than
I was five, ten, 15 years ago.
S1 (45:21):
Yeah. Can I can I just commend you for something
before I let you run? Um, we have both been
through a lot of suffering, just like a lot of
the folks who are listening to us right now. It
takes a unique grace to be able to write about it.
I've had people who've pulled me to the side and say, hey,
you should write a book about what you've gone through.
And I've looked back at them like, uh, that is
(45:42):
not what I want to do right now. Writing a
book about it is is really, really hard. Because what
it means by necessity is that you got to talk
about it. You got to talk about it a lot.
And yet God is giving you the grace. And we
all have benefited from your obedience to Jesus. So I
just want to say, as your brother in Christ, who
cheers for you and thanks God for you. Thank you
(46:05):
for being obedient. I know it calls for vulnerability. Every
book costs something and you have paid a price for it.
But yet on the other side of that obedience. Many
are being encouraged. So if you don't mind, Doctor Lina,
I'd love to pray for you. And I want to
invite all of those who are listening right now to
join me in praying for our dear sister. Thank you
(46:28):
for living with power. Thank you for the ministry. God.
Although they face much, I pray that you would surprise
them with your grace. I pray that you would surprise
them with your goodness. And I pray, Lord, that through
it all that even Lina would be reminded that you
are the comfort, that you are the gift, and that
you are the treasure. Bless Lina and her team and
(46:52):
bless this book to get into as many hands as possible.
In Jesus name, Amen and amen. Thanks, Elena. Friends, thank
you for being with us today. I can't wait to
wear together again next time. Until then, remember, equipped with
Chris Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
of Moody Bible Institute.
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