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July 9, 2025 • 47 mins

What if your sexual story isn’t something to hide or fix—but a place to meet God? On this edition of Equipped, Dr. Juli Slattery joins Chris Brooks for a powerful conversation about surrendering our wounds, questions, and longings to the God who welcomes us without shame. Instead of running or hiding, discover how your story can draw you closer to Him—because truly knowing God changes everything. 

Featured resource:
Surrendered Sexuality by Dr. Juli Slattery

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Surrendered Sexuality by Dr. Juli Slattery

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Episode Transcript

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S1 (00:15):
Chris Brooks here, reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded
and we won't be taking your calls. Well, hey there friends,
welcome to another exciting edition of equip with Chris Brooks.
It is so good to be here with you today.
Why don't you do me a favor? Strap on your seatbelt.
We're going to navigate through the contours of culture, as always,

(00:39):
with the lens of the biblical worldview on. But before
we do that, let me remind you, this is the
day that the Lord has made. He is giving it
as a gift so that you and I can rejoice
and be glad in it. So let's do just that.
Let's follow the words of the Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice
in the Lord always. And again I say, rejoice. Well,

(01:00):
you often hear us say around Moody that the gospel
changes everything, but is that true concerning our sexual struggles?
You know, 100% of us know the reality of living
in a fallen world, and that the effects of the
fall impact every area of our life. And yes, this
includes our story of sexuality. And maybe you've wondered, God,

(01:25):
where are you in my sexual story? Where are you
and my struggles? Where are you and my pains? Where
are you in the longings of my heart? Well, today
we want to answer those questions. I believe that God
is very present in all of our lives. I believe
that God wants to bring his story of redemption, renewal,

(01:48):
grace to every area of our lives, and that includes
our sexuality. And we're going to have a conversation that
hopefully can give you help, hope, and the healing that
your heart so desperately longs for. Now, I promise you
on the front end of this conversation that we're going
to do so with tact. I recognize that some of

(02:10):
you may be picking the kids up and driving in
the car. Or maybe you are tuning in and you're wondering, well,
what type of conversation will this be? We'll try to
have one that is honest, one that's vulnerable, but also
one that is very much respectful for you and for
your family. With that being said, I'm so grateful for

(02:31):
my guest today. Julie Slattery is joining me today to
discuss her newest book. It's simply entitled Surrendered Sexuality How
Knowing Jesus Changes Everything. Many of you know Julie. She's
the president and co-founder of Authentic Intimacy. It's an awesome
ministry helping people make sense of God and sexuality. She's

(02:55):
also the host of the weekly podcast Java with Julie.
She has authored and co-authored 14 books, many of which
I'm pretty confident I've gotten a chance to interview her on.
And many of you have read. She is such a
blessing Passing out of Akron, Ohio. Hey, how are you, Julie?

S2 (03:16):
I'm. Well. It's so good to be with you, Chris.

S1 (03:19):
I was thinking about, uh, your your books, and you've
written a lot of them. Uh, was your first book beyond, uh,
The Masquerade in 2007. Is that right?

S2 (03:32):
I can't believe that you remember that far back. But
my first my first book was actually finding the hero
in your husband, I think, in the early 2000. But
Beyond the Masquerade was, I think, number three.

S1 (03:44):
Yeah. All right. So so we we're going back to
the early two, 2000. So this is going to feel
like a little bit of back to the future. But
we go back. Let's go back to the early 2000
and think about your journey to from that moment to
now with surrendered sexuality. What's changed as you think about

(04:05):
that journey when you first started into this space, into
this much needed area to now what's changed?

S2 (04:15):
Wow. What's changed within me? Within me or within me?

S1 (04:19):
Well, really the discussion, the discussion around, uh, sexuality from
a from a gospel perspective.

S2 (04:26):
Sure. Yeah. So I think there have been a number
of changes when we look at the last 20 to
25 years, our culture, the American culture, has really shifted
to completely embracing some of the fundamental premises of, like
post-modernism and humanism, that the most important thing about me

(04:48):
is my human experience, what I desire, how I feel,
what I've experienced. That wasn't the case, um, in the
early 2000. I think there was a sense culturally that, um,
we said there are norms. There are truths outside of
ourself that we all at some level agree to and

(05:08):
particularly related to sexuality. What is male and female and
what is marriage? What is what is the purpose of
marriage and of sex and intimacy? Those things have been
completely redefined, um, for the the mass culture, not just
the fringes. Yeah. So that would be, you know, the
biggest shift. And then also just the openness to talk

(05:31):
about sexuality, both within the broader culture and also within
the church culture. Um, we we are much more comfortable
tackling these topics and having the conversation, even if the
conversation isn't always starting from the right framework.

S1 (05:47):
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up, because I was
thinking about this question knowing I was going to ask
it of you. And I begin to think about so
many of the bad things in our minds. I think
naturally go there. The shift in morality, the sexual revolution
our country and our culture has undergone, many of which

(06:08):
have left a trail of casualties in its wake. But
I also begin to think about the good things that
have changed over the years. And I agree with you
that one of the best things has been a willingness
to have these conversations, because early days of ministry for me, um, man,
it was it was very taboo, still very awkward. And

(06:31):
you felt as a pastor, as a church leader, like, man,
you're stumbling through these conversations but not really having wording
or resources that can help you and consequently that can
help those that you are leading and shepherding. I love
what you say about the relationship with God and our sexuality.

(06:52):
You write this that sexuality is never neutral in our
relationship with God. How does our sexuality impact our relationship
with Jesus? Julie?

S2 (07:02):
Yeah, I think in most situations, because of the brokenness
and the shame that often entails sexuality. It becomes an
area of our life that feels like a kind of
a blockage or a wall between us and God, and
that can be a couple of different ways. It can be.

(07:23):
I don't know if I trust God's design for sex
as good, like what the culture is talking about seems
a lot more loving and just than what I read
in the Bible. So that can be a barrier. Or
it could be the trauma that you've experienced, the betrayal
you've experienced. Like, if God really loves me and he's
a good God, why did he let this happen? And

(07:44):
can I trust him with the rest of my life?
And that can be true even just within marriage. Like,
why isn't marriage? Why isn't marriage sexuality the way it's
supposed to be? The way I thought it would be?
So our brokenness can get in that way. And then
there's shame. You know, there's an awful lot of Christians
who are walking through an ongoing struggle, or perhaps the

(08:07):
memory of something that they've done in the past where
they feel like I you know, I know the Bible
says God forgives me, but I just can never forgive myself.
I will never be pure in God's eyes. Like, I
don't even know if he really loves me. And so
for the average Christian, even if they never talk about
these things, you know, I found over the years of

(08:30):
ministry that this is a major what we look in
Scripture and say is a stronghold in terms of their
relationship with God. This is a part of their life
that they don't quite feel they can connect to the
goodness of God and His love for them.

S1 (08:46):
You know, I think you would agree with this, that
our journey of sexuality, this area of our lives is
either going to draw us to God or draw us
away from God. And, uh, your your resources have been
so good at helping to draw us to the Lord.
How do you hope that surrender sexuality will do that?

S2 (09:10):
Yeah. Um, Chris, that is actually my number one prayer
and hope with everything I do in ministry is that, um,
is that as we pursue these topics, we can address
this wall that most people experience and actually see a
transformation from this being a part of their life that's
really characterized by shame and distance from God to it

(09:33):
actually becoming an area of life where they experience God's
goodness and redemption and healing and intimacy profoundly. And, um,
and so this book was really written to be a
very personal journey of how do we go from the
place of sexuality being a barrier or a big unanswered
question to actually being an area of my life where

(09:56):
I've experienced the intimacy of God. I've invited him in,
I've acknowledged his presence. I've wrestled through the questions with him,
and so that's kind of how I wrote it with
that lens, and also for people to go through it
in small groups so that they can have these conversations
with other believers and realize they're not alone in their journey.

S1 (10:19):
How is the reputation of the church changed? I think about, uh,
folks in your role. You are a licensed clinical psychologist.
You get a chance to see people one on one
so often, or families or couples. Um, what's the reputation
of the church? What have we done? Well, and maybe

(10:42):
what are some areas where the church has struggled?

S2 (10:45):
Boy, that's such a broad question. And I think people
have very different experiences. I'll start with what we have
not done well, and then we can move to what
we have done well. I think there are an awful
lot of people who have church hurt around this area
of sexuality? Yeah. And whether it's they had a pastor

(11:07):
or a Christian leader, they trusted that abuse their power
or fell sexually, or the only time they ever heard
sex discussed was in more of a condemning way or
setting a standard of purity that they feel like they
could never reach, or it just wasn't discussed. And so
they felt like, I don't belong here because I struggle

(11:30):
with same sex attraction, or I'm looking at pornography every
day and I don't know how to stop. So I
can't be myself or I can't be here. So I think,
you know, the church has unfortunately not done a great
job on this. And, you know, a lot of my
ministry is actually working with church leaders to help them

(11:51):
feel more equipped in addressing these issues. And what I
found is the average church leader has no training on
how to talk about sexuality in a way that is
trauma informed and that is sensitive to the deeper issues
underneath it, that presents it as a journey of discipleship
and not just a standard of behavior. And so those

(12:12):
are some of the things that I think we're trying
to change within church culture. But what the church does
well is when the church is functioning as it should be,
it is the one place that is pointing to truth
and not just the truth that is in God's Word,
but even more importantly, the God behind that truth. And
the fact that we serve a God who knows everything

(12:34):
about us and still loves us. There are no secrets
with him. A God that has given His Son to
cover all of our sin and shame. And that's not
just a theoretical statement. It is. It is a truth.
And so when the church is doing its job, it
is speaking that truth and embodying it in being the

(12:56):
people that have the greatest level of compassion and care.
walking with those who are hurting. So there are church
communities that are doing that beautifully.

S1 (13:07):
And I'm encouraged by that. And I hope that we
can start or be at least a part of that
quiet revolution that's happening in which churches are becoming more
equipped and becoming places of healing and help and hope.
And we're going to talk more about that. Where is
God in my sexual story? What about my struggles? Is

(13:32):
God there? We're praying that this book in your hands
will help to make all the difference. I want you
to do me a favor. Go to our website, equip
radio.org a gift of any amount. All month long. We'll
send you surrendered sexuality or call 888644 4144. We'll be

(13:52):
right back. The enemy loves to take our sexual struggles
and build strongholds that separate us from God. We start
believing lies like we can't go to church anymore or
that God couldn't possibly love us. Surrender Sexuality by Julie
Slattery breaks down those barriers and shows you the path

(14:15):
to freedom without shame and into the welcoming arms of Jesus.
We'll send you a copy with our thanks when you
support equipped this month. Simply call 888644 4144 or visit
Equip Radio. Org. Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's

(14:38):
program is pre-recorded. While we won't be taking calls, we
do want to connect with you on social media. Welcome
back to Equipped with Chris Brooks. All month long, we're
featuring a book that I wish I could hand deliver
to you. Uh. Sit down, have a conversation about surrendered sexuality.

(15:00):
I think every single one of us are going to
benefit from Julie Slattery's latest book. Doctor Julie Slattery has
written a wonderful resource. It's approachable, it's honest, surrendered sexuality
how knowing Jesus can change everything. It can be yours
with the gift of any amount to the program. All

(15:20):
you have to do is give us a call at
888644 4144 or go to Equip radio.org. It's our gift
to you as you seek to surrender your whole life
to Christ. What does it look like when we do
surrender our sexuality to the Lord? I can imagine there's

(15:42):
a number of barriers, fear and shame, and I want
to get into those barriers. But I want to just
cast a vision. What does it look like when we
actually surrender our sexuality to the Lord.

S2 (15:57):
Yeah, I think sometimes it it helps. First by contrasting
what it doesn't look like. Um, you know, like, I
feel like most of us fall into one of three
strategies with this. The first one is we compartmentalize and
we say, okay, my sexuality is kind of over here
in this box. I don't really want to think about it.
I certainly don't want to pray about it or bring

(16:18):
it to church. Like, let's just kind of not not
acknowledge it. Um, the second strategy that I think Christians
will fall into is compromise. Like, I don't quite know
the goodness of God in my sexuality. So in this area,
I'm just going to navigate it the way I think
is best. And then the third area, which I think

(16:40):
is common in the church is control. Like, if only
I can just have enough self-will and self-discipline to not lust,
to not look at porn. You know, like to not
do the wrong thing, then maybe God will accept me.
And the picture of surrender is really the picture that
Paul gives us in Romans chapter one. Romans chapter 12,

(17:03):
verses one and two, where he essentially says, your reasonable
response to God's mercy is to offer yourself as a
living sacrifice. And that means we offer ourselves with all
of our brokenness, with all of our questions, with all
of our struggles. We don't try to clean up the
offering first. We just bring ourselves. And it's acknowledging what

(17:25):
David wrote in Psalm 139 that there is nowhere I
can go from God's presence. There's no thought I can
have that he doesn't know about. And so it's this
intimacy of being aware that God is already in my struggle.
He knows my question. He knows my shame. And so, Lord,
where are you in it? I bring myself to you.

(17:48):
Not so that I can fix myself, but so that
I can have intimacy with you, even in the conversation
of what it looks like for you to bring redemption
into this area of my life.

S1 (18:01):
I think many of us, Julie, are familiar with the
story of the Prodigal Son, and I would love to
have you comment on that story, because I think it's
one of the most important as it relates to to
your book. I think the power of that story, and
probably what makes it so popular, is that many of
us can relate to seasons where we've walked away from

(18:23):
the Lord and maybe forgotten about our character in Christ,
or maybe compromise ourselves, as you just talked about. I'll
never forget Julie getting us a call, one of the
ones that I remember the most from this program. A
listener called in and she was 17 at the time,

(18:45):
and she says, from the age of 11 to 14,
I had a pretty intense porn addiction. Um, 11 to 14.
And then the Lord, through a series of things, helped
her to get to a place of freedom. And I'm
grateful for that. But she says I'm 17 now. What

(19:05):
do I do with all of the images that are
in my mind? And who do I talk to about this?
Even the struggle and the temptation that she was still having,
and she was dealing with so much shame. And when
I read the story of the prodigal, it seems like, man,
there's these dueling traps of shame on the one hand,

(19:26):
performance on the other, with these two sons of this father.
What can we learn from the story of the prodigal son?

S2 (19:34):
Yeah, boy, I love that story as well. And the
second chapter in surrender. Sexuality. Really? The the first step
is for us to really look at what we believe
about our identity. And I think that that story of
the prodigal son is all about identity because you've got
you do have two sons. You've got one who is

(19:55):
living in an identity of shame. Like even when he
is repentant and he realizes that he's wandered and he
wants to come back to the father. He's afraid that
the father isn't going to receive him, like he just
realizes I am not worthy. I am just I'll come
back and be the father's slave. And then you've got

(20:15):
the other son whose identity is really wrapped up in self-righteousness.
Like I didn't go off and do all these things.
Why aren't you throwing a party for me? And as
I've again worked many years now in this field of
Christian sexuality, most Christians are one of those two brothers
related to sexuality. You have some that are like, I

(20:39):
am the worst sinner. If anybody knew what I struggle
with or what I've done, they wouldn't let me in
the church. I can never tell anybody what I've done
and I feel constantly like the father is disappointed with
me and rejecting me and judging me. And then you've
got others who are like, well, I haven't done those things.
I've never looked at porn. I don't sleep around, therefore

(21:03):
I'm better than you. And you can have a lot
of self-righteousness of, you know, like I've earned my own
purity by the decisions that I've made. And when we
look at the gospel, the gospel levels, both of those postures,
that it is not about our performance. It's not about

(21:23):
our choice to be sexually pure at the end of
the day is about who Jesus is. And the father
has received us because of Jesus's righteousness, and he welcomes
us both home and welcomes us both to be dependent
on that fellowship with him.

S1 (21:39):
You know, I think about the groups that this book is,
is great for, and you've named a few of them.
I just want to throw another group out there and
that is young adults. I have the privilege of leading
a young adult Bible study here. I try to do
a group every year of young adults that I'll take

(22:00):
through a 6 to 9 month kind of Bible study
huddle with. And one of the things that I'm noticing
as being pretty consistent over the years of ministry is
that preparing them to be launched out into their calling,
into adulting, into the next season of their life pretty

(22:22):
consistently nowadays, uh, has to include a journey of healing
and dealing with this area. And some are are courageous enough.
And I don't want to say this in a condemning way,
but some are courageous enough to to kind of bring
that out in, um, environments of safety. Some are in

(22:46):
that prison of shame. I've heard you say this before,
and I don't know if this originated with you, or
maybe originated with someone else, but I've heard you say
before that 20s of honesty and courage can change the
course of someone's life. What do you mean by that?

S2 (23:04):
Yeah, that didn't originate with me. I actually heard, um,
Annie Belier say that about her healing journey, and, um,
she was telling her story about she had been abused
by a Christian leader and hadn't told anyone and just
kept living in shame and was in this relationship with
this leader. And she was terrified. But she said one

(23:26):
day she got the courage to to go to her
husband and just blurt it out, what had happened? And
then she just kind of ran out of the room.
And she said that 20s of courage changed everything. Wow. And, uh,
and I think that is true when we have trauma
that has not been spoken out loud. But it is

(23:49):
also true with the secret sins that we hide. You know,
as a therapist, I've been so blessed to be in
that sacred space where some when someone says, for the
first time out loud, I had an affair, I cheated
on my husband. Nobody knows I had an abortion 15
years ago. No one knows I struggle with same sex desire.

(24:14):
I've never told a soul. And there's something of the
enemy that is broken when we bring secrets into the light.
And it requires so much courage. Because you're fighting the
fear of. If I speak this out loud, my world
is going to fall apart. People are going to think

(24:34):
that I'm a horrible person, and the enemy keeps you
bound by that. And so it does require just a
short period of great courage to bring something like that
into the light so that you can begin that freedom
and healing journey.

S1 (24:48):
I know that for many that are listening, maybe the
fear of what will happen on the other side has
kept you in the prison of shame and silence. But
I want you to hear Julie in saying that 20s
of honesty and courage can absolutely change your life for
the good and for those who might be in Julie's shoes.

(25:11):
As someone who another person trusts to be able to
share a struggle, that they've had some woundedness or abuse
that they've experienced, um, steward that well, steward that trust well,
to pray with them, to put good resources in their hands,
and to help them on their journey with healing. That

(25:32):
one moment of honesty through a text or an email
or a meeting with a counselor can change everything. We
want to help you in your journey of healing all
month long. That's why we're featuring Julie's newest book, Surrendered
Sexuality How Knowing Jesus Changes Everything. I want you to

(25:54):
get your copy by calling 888644 4144 or click through
at Radio.com. We'd love to send you your copy today.
We'll be right back. Today's program has been pre-recorded so

(26:18):
our phone lines are not open. Welcome back to equipped
with Chris Brooks today. Doctor Julie Slattery is with us.
What a blessing to have her stop by quip. Uh,
her wonderful ministry, authentic intimacy has literally helped thousands upon

(26:40):
And thousands who have found freedom in Christ, who has
realized the benefits and blessings of surrendering their sexuality to Jesus.
Her ministry helps people make sense of God and sexuality.
I want to encourage you to find out more about
authentic intimacy by going to our website. Equip Radio.com. But

(27:05):
here's the good news. All month long we're featuring her
book Surrender Sexuality. Now, this is a resource that I
think is great for everyone, for the pastor who's helping
to lead the church, for small groups who want to
maybe walk with each other through the spiritual formation journey.

(27:25):
Certainly for you on an individual level, but I would
really love to see many of us get this book
into the hands of the young adults in our lives,
because I believe there is a generation that will look
back and asked the question, who was brave enough to
tell us the truth? Who had the courage to be

(27:47):
honest with us? In a world full of lies and
deception that will lead to brokenness? I hope when they
ask that question years from now, they'll be able to say,
the church. They'll be able to look at you and
me and say, there were people in my life that
loved me enough to tell me the truth. And one

(28:08):
of the ways we can do it is by putting
wonderful resources into their hands, like surrendered sexuality. So the
way that it works is a gift of any amount,
and we encourage you to be as generous as possible.
But a gift of any amount to equip will send
this over to you. Go to our website, equip radio.org
or call the number 888644 4144. That's 888644 4144. So Julie,

(28:39):
I want to read a passage of Scripture to you
that I love. It comes from Psalm 139, one of
my favorite Psalms, that really speaks about the presence of God.
And I would love for you to just kind of
comment on, uh, how this really played into your your
thinking concerning surrender sexuality. Here's what David writes. The psalmist,

(29:04):
where shall I go from your spirit? Or where shall
I flee from your presence? If I ascend to the heaven,
you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol,
you are there. If I take the wings of the
morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there your hand shall lead me, and your right

(29:27):
hand shall hold me. If I say, surely the darkness
shall cover me, and the light about me be night.
Even darkness is not dark to you. The night is
bright as the day. For darkness is as light with you. Um.
What do you say when you read that?

S2 (29:48):
Oh, it's one of my favorite psalms as well. And, Chris,
I think we can listen to that psalm and have
one of two reactions. It can either be, oh, man,
like God is judging me always. I can never get
away from him. He always sees what I'm doing. Or
we can look at it and be like and be like, wow,

(30:10):
God is always with me in the sense of being
my guide, being my wisdom, being my comfort. And I
think it's interesting to see different people react differently, either
to that being intimidating or it being the most comforting
thought that they could ever have. But related to sexuality,

(30:34):
often we think, If I'm not thinking of God, then
he's not present. But, you know, like, let's take let's
take the issue of pornography. So many men and women
struggle with pornography, and in their struggle, they're thinking, God
is waiting for you to get it right. God is
waiting for you to stop. But what if you began
to really imagine the fact that God is actually with

(30:57):
you when you're looking at pornography? That his presence is
with you. Like he doesn't leave the room. He knows
the triggers that trigger that behavior. He knows the shame
you feel afterwards. He knows the images that you're looking
at and you're thinking about how does that change things?

(31:17):
And this is why, like the subtitle of the book
is How Knowing Jesus Changes everything. Not knowing the rules,
not just reading the Bible, but knowing the presence of God. Like,
how does it how does that change? The next time
you struggle to actually acknowledge the presence of So God's
Spirit in the room to know that you can cry

(31:38):
out to him. You can ask him for help, you
can ask him for comfort, and you can ask him
for wisdom. So I'm when when I hear that Psalm
and I, I put it in the context of the
the struggles that people have with sexuality, it's recognizing that
God is intimately involved in every area of our life

(32:00):
and every struggle we have and every question we have.

S1 (32:04):
So. So a lot of this goes back to Julie,
what we think about God when we think about God.
Because how I'm going to feel about this Psalm that
says to me, his presence is always with me. I
can never flee his presence. There's nowhere I can go
that he won't be there. Um, will really how I

(32:27):
feel about it will really be determined by what I
think about him. So your last chapter of the book
is on on love. So let's describe the love of God.
Why should we? Instead of being terrified by the thought
that his presence is always with me, why should we
be encouraged and actually find hope in that thought?

S2 (32:49):
Yeah. You know, Paul kind of echoes what David writes
in Psalm 139 when he says, what shall separate me
from the love of God? And he goes through his
own list of, you know, trials and persecution and, and,
you know, sickness and saying that there is nothing that

(33:09):
can separate me from the love of God. So he's
not just saying nothing can keep God me from God's presence.
He's saying, God is love in that presence. And if
we are in Christ, then the presence of God should
always be like. The story of the prodigal son is
really about the father. That father that is there with

(33:32):
open arms. Who is saying, I am here to forgive you,
to redeem you, to be your ever present help in
the time of trouble? Child, I know that stopping a
sin struggle isn't always as easy as just saying that
you don't want to do it anymore. I know that
there is wounding under that. There's shame that we need

(33:53):
to address. There's lies you're believing. Would you go on
this journey with me of freedom and healing? And you know,
that would be my hope that we would truly see
God's love as we see a father's love who doesn't
just discipline us, but disciples us and takes us on
the journey, knowing that his love and his compassion and

(34:16):
his patience are greater than we could ever imagine.

S1 (34:20):
All right. I want to just, um, maybe have you
respond to a few groups. Okay. And, uh, I'd love
to hear what guidance you would share with them. So
for the person who's listening to us who says my
story is one of hidden abuse. What would you say

(34:42):
to them about how your book could help them?

S2 (34:48):
Yeah. You know, I would say, first of all, you
use the word hidden and the fact that it's hidden, like,
why is it hidden? Who is it hidden from? And um,
and very often under the hiding is a lot of
questions and a lot of lies about the goodness of God,
about did I is this my fault? You know, like,

(35:10):
can I truly heal or be redeemed? And so this
book is really about, again, acknowledging and inviting the presence
of God into all those questions. You know, God wants
you to be free. God wants you to be free
from the shame of abuse and the lies that the
enemy planted in that part of your heart. art. And so,

(35:31):
you know, I have a whole chapter that's just on
brokenness and the questions we ask in the midst of
our brokenness, but really finding God, finding the presence of God.
If that is your story. And, you know, one of
the things that I've learned over time is that God
doesn't heal what we won't expose, and nobody ever heals

(35:52):
in hiding. It just doesn't happen. And so it does require,
even at a very personal level, the willingness to say, okay,
I want to expose this so God can heal it.

S1 (36:03):
Surrender is not about what's taken from you. So often
we can think about surrender as just what we're going
to lose, what we're going to give up. But it's
so much about what you're going to gain. Because when
you surrender to the God who loves you, you gain mercy, strength, peace, healing,

(36:27):
all of these. really gifts of his grace that your
heart and soul longs for. That's what we want for you.
So that's why Doctor Julie has written this powerful book,
Surrendered Sexuality. Get your copy today. Go to equip radio.org.
We'll be right back. Do you wrestle with sexual shame

(36:51):
or unmet longings? Do you wonder if God cares about
your wounds and desires? Would you love a more intimate,
honest relationship with him? Then you need to read Surrender
Sexuality by Doctor Julie Slattery. She'll help you take your
deepest needs to a loving Savior who meets you without
shame or condemnation. Ask for your copy of Surrender Sexuality

(37:15):
when you support equip this month. Simply call 888644 4144
or visit Equip Radio. Org. Instead of sexuality being the

(37:35):
area that separates you from God, experience how it can
help you fully know his indescribable love and grace. Hot
Off the Press is Surrendered Sexuality, just recently released, and
I'm so honored that he gets to feature it this month.
Doctor Julie, uh, what a blessing it is to be

(37:56):
able to encourage folks all over the country. Get your
copy today. How knowing Jesus changes everything. Julie, I would
also love for you to speak to the person who says,
I've grown up in church all of my life, and
I've constantly heard, you're supposed to be a good boy.

(38:17):
You're supposed to be a good girl. But nobody has
really shown me. How is one of your desires, through
surrendered sexuality, to actually show a process.

S2 (38:29):
Yeah, very much so. Um, yeah, I let's start with
the fact that Jesus didn't die to change our behavior.
You know, Jesus died to give us a new heart,
to give us a new self. And so I think
very often we look at, okay, if you're a Christian,
you do these things and you don't do these things.

(38:51):
But the Scripture tells us that the things we do
are actually the fruit of how our heart is. And
so when we come to Christ, the journey of learning
to walk in him and learning to mature in Christianity
goes way, way, way deeper than our behaviors. It involves
our identity. It involves, like Paul says in Romans chapter 12,

(39:14):
verse two, not being conformed to the thinking of this world,
but being transformed by the renewing of our minds through
the Scripture and relationship with Christ, It transforms how we
how we feel about things, what we get excited about,
where we find life. And so, um, this book is
really laying out all the different elements of what it

(39:37):
really looks like to live a surrendered life. And certainly
our behavior is part of it. You can't ignore that.
But our behavior happens. It begins to change when we
begin to change. And so this this book takes people
on a journey of the deeper things that our sexuality
often represents.

S1 (39:57):
Well, and you do it in such an inviting way.
And the reason why I bring this up is because
I can imagine, as a pastor man, the many times unintentionally, uh,
either myself or someone else have have preached the right message. Julie.
But maybe left folks in frustration saying, man, I want

(40:18):
to live into that. I want to live into God's story.
But what is the roadmap from where I am right
now to that point? That point of being surrendered. And
I love that your book is really a roadmap. That's
what I would describe it as a roadmap from how
to get from the place of maybe brokenness and shame

(40:42):
to a place of love and grace in Jesus. How
do you do that? I would encourage you get your
copy again of Surrender Sexuality. And it does not just
have to be for you, but what a blessing. If
your small group could go through this together, or what
would it look like as a pastor for you to say,
as a church, we're going to spend a few weeks

(41:05):
just talking through this. Let me ask this question as
we wrap up this conversation. Doctor Julie, what's your hope?
What's your ultimate desire for those who will pick up
the book?

S2 (41:18):
Yeah, my ultimate desire is really about their relationship with
the Lord. You know, when when we look at all
the things that sexuality represents, the sin struggles, the things
we hope for, the things we long for, you know,
even marriage, the Scripture tells us that marriage is a
beautiful gift here on earth. That actually is a reflection

(41:39):
of something eternal. And that's our covenant with God, our
intimacy with him, and relationship with him. And so my
number one hope is that this is a resource that
helps people experience the presence and love of God in
more profound ways. We talk to our best friend about

(41:59):
our secrets. And so when we begin to talk to
God about our sexual wounds, our struggles, our shame, he
becomes our best friend and we begin to have intimacy
with him that is so far beyond just reading a
Bible verse and trying to live up to it. And
so that's my greatest hope, is that through this journey

(42:22):
of of sexuality, your personal journey, your questions, you come
out the end of it knowing God in way more
intimate ways and trusting his goodness.

S1 (42:33):
For those who Doctor Julie maybe have never considered what
it's like to talk to a counselor about this. What
role does that play? Because let's be honest, as you
have shared, one of the things that I've come to
realize is that although we as pastors may have like man,
a huge heart to make a difference, a lot of

(42:54):
us don't have trauma training. Um, maybe there is such
deep levels of brokenness that it goes beyond just your
traditional biblical counseling. What would you say for the importance
of a role of a counselor?

S2 (43:08):
Yeah. So, you know, I, I really think that we
need to take the role of a counselor and say,
what do what do you actually need for healing? And
sometimes it comes in the form of a counselor. But
what we really need is first, we need a safe
place to tell the truth. And a counselor can be
that helpful place because they're bound by confidentiality to keep

(43:32):
your secrets. Um, and they are bound to listen and
not to judge you, but to just be that safe
holding place. But you can also find that in a
trusted mentor or friend. So you need a safe place
to just be honest and talk about what is true.
Get things out of hiding. The second thing we need

(43:53):
is we need a source to find truth. Because our
wounds and our struggles are disorienting. We're not sure what
to trust and what is a lie and what is truth.
And so a Christian counselor who's always going to go
back to the Word of God is essential. Where they're
pointing you back to this is what the Scripture says.

(44:15):
Or I hear you believing this lie. And again, that
can be a counselor or it can be a trusted
discipleship group or mentor. But you do need those elements
where you share, where you can be honest with things,
but the person also is going to point you back
to true north, like this is who God is, and

(44:37):
this is what the Scripture says. And then ultimately we
need to encounter the one who is truth, and that's
Jesus himself. You know, any even the best counselor, the
best friend is not the ultimate healing. It is the healer.
And as John the Baptist said when he was discipling people,
there comes a place where you're like, don't look at

(44:58):
me like, behold, there's the Lamb of God. You need
to know him. And so, you know, when we are
in that role of being that trusted friend or counselor,
our ultimate job at the end of the day, is
to point people to the one who is the healer himself.

S1 (45:16):
I love this verse and I think this is a
great place for us to land. Jesus is invitation to
every single one of us. Come to me, he says,
all you who are weary and heavy laden or burdened,
and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you,
and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble

(45:37):
in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
What a wonderful invitation, Doctor Julie, that we can come
to him if we are weary of the shame, if
we are tired of the guilt that comes along with
sexual brokenness, if we want to have the affirmation that

(46:02):
we are actually in Christ and that he loves us,
he invites us to bring our whole selves to him.
That's not just the victories. That's not just the celebrations.
That's not just the areas where we feel like we're winning,
but it's even the areas that we haven't talked to
anyone else about. Jesus says, bring it to me. And
I know you and I have talked a lot in

(46:23):
this conversation about finding a safe place for us, to
be honest. And maybe that's a pastor or a friend
or a counselor. But I think the first place is
in prayer. Maybe you've never talked to God about the
porn addiction, or about the abuse, or about the affair.

(46:43):
Have an honest conversation with Jesus first, and then from there,
watch him guide you and lead you. And Doctor Slattery's
book can be a great resource and a road map,
so go to our website at Radio.com. Doctor Julie, thanks
for just carving out time to be with us today.

S2 (47:02):
Oh, it's been a joy. Thanks so much, Chris.

S1 (47:04):
Till we're together again next time. Remember, equipped with Chris
Brooks is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
Moody Bible Institute.
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