July 16, 2025 • 47 mins
What is salvation? Can you lose it? How do I become a Christian? Have you asked those questions? Have your kids asked them? Author Champ Thornton addresses these questions and offers a wonderful resource for kids – or adults who need the answers, too! Don't miss this conversation—it could make an eternal difference!
Featured resource:
10 Questions about Salvation: 30 Devotions for Kids, Teens, and Families by Champ Thornton
July thank you gift:
Surrendered Sexuality by Dr. Juli Slattery
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:15):
Today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Well hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equip with Chris Brooks. I'm so thrilled that you've joined
us today. Why don't you do me a favor? Strap
on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the contours
of culture, as always, with the lens of the biblical
(00:38):
worldview on. But before we do that, let me remind
you this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice. Well, if you're a parent, a mom,
(00:59):
or a dad, there are few things more important to
you than the passing of your faith to your children.
I think that every Christian parent out there knows what
it's like to carry with them, their children in their
heart and to pray, Lord, save my son. Save my daughter.
Our kids salvation is first and foremost priority to us.
(01:23):
But one of the things that typically happens when a
kid is trying to process through faith is questions. And
many of us have been on the other side of
those questions, thinking, how in the world do I answer
this question? Maybe you remember if you're a kid of
(01:43):
the 80s, like I was this show that was entitled
Kids Say the Funniest Things. Uh, it was a great show,
and they would talk about a whole assortment of things
and just get kids opinions on it. And, uh, and
it's true when it comes to questions about God, about life,
about salvation as well. Kids say the funniest things and
(02:05):
they ask the toughest questions. I gotta be honest with you,
I've been in front of audiences to answer questions you
guys know I love apologetic moments and being able to
stand before questioners about the Christian faith. But if you
want to get my knees knocking a little bit, put
me in front of a room full of kids because
(02:26):
they ask the toughest questions. That's why I'm always on
the hunt for great resources, such as the case in
a new book that I want to commend to you
today is simply entitled ten Questions About Salvation. And I love, love,
love this resource, and I want you to check it
(02:47):
out at our website. Equip radio.org. The author is Champ Thornton.
Many of you know champ from his writings. Uh, champ
is the director of Children and Family Resources at Crossway,
has a PhD from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Him and
his wife, Robin, have, uh, a couple of, uh, really
(03:11):
energetic kids that they love deeply, and he has dedicated
his life to equipping parents, just like you and me,
to answer the tough and and the funny questions that
our kids ask about God. Champ, how are you, brother Chris?
S2 (03:27):
I'm doing good. How are you doing today?
S1 (03:28):
I'm doing really, really well and I'm grateful to have
you on. I told you earlier, I'm going to take
off my host hat, put on my parent hat, because
I'm really interested in this. Being a parent myself and
trying my best to be faithful to this call of
helping my kids to know and love Jesus. But but
let me just start by asking you, why dedicate your
(03:50):
life to, uh, resources for for parents and kids to
know Jesus, you could have really gone in any direction.
Why this?
S2 (04:03):
Yeah, it's a great question. I feel like you said
about the parent had it's like, you know, the reality is, Chris,
you and I both I mean, we're always wearing that hat, right?
It really never comes off. And, uh, when I was
29 years old, and I'm. Let's just say that was
quite a few years ago, I, uh, developed a blood clot,
and it developed into a pulmonary embolism. And then, you know,
(04:25):
people died from that. And God spared my life. And
what I found out is I have a blood disorder
that inclines me toward clotting. And so while it's, you know,
so far, it's medically contained and everything's good. Uh, you know,
there was a season in my life when, you know,
I was in my late 20s and early 30s that
I thought about death a lot because I hadn't been
thinking about it a lot before. And then, you know,
(04:48):
kids come along and you think, you know, it is important.
I'm not always going to be here. I want to
make sure that I'm passing on to my kids. Uh, what?
I think God would have them to know what's important
in life. What are the priorities and and how can
I shape them? And maybe, even if I'm not around,
what kinds of things can I leave them that will,
(05:09):
God willing, shape their lives. And so, you know, these
kinds of factors have played into part of the trajectory
of my life, which was never on my bingo card
when I was in seminary, which is writing for kids.
And I'm just so grateful that God has used even
a difficult situation to, uh, to bring unexpected good.
S1 (05:30):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, because I think that God
uses a whole assortment of things to kind of awaken
us to the urgency of the moment. And you just
talked about your own medical journey for some that are
listening to us right now, maybe their motivation for saying
I need a resource like this is the fact that
(05:50):
maybe their child is going through a medical journey, or
maybe they are watching their child drift away from the faith,
or maybe just coming to salvation themselves. Whatever the reason,
I think this book is great for every Christian home.
I mean that sincerely. So let's just talk about it.
(06:12):
Why ten questions? What made you say I need to
do this project right now?
S2 (06:19):
Yeah. So I'm thinking about how can we serve families
and their kids. And when we say kids, this book
is geared for kids ages 8 to 14. So that
late elementary school middle school age and, you know, so
they're out of picture books. They're not reading those much anymore,
but they're into the next phase. And at this phase,
(06:39):
as you mentioned earlier, I mean, kids have great questions. Yeah.
So let's listen to those questions and then try to
go to God's Word and provide answers for those questions.
And so as Director of Children and Family Resources here
at Crossway, I wanted to be able to have not
just one book, but maybe even a series of books. Yeah,
ten questions series where we can provide resources that moms
(07:03):
and dads can put into kids hands for their Bible
time with the Lord on questions that maybe they have,
or maybe they don't have yet, but their parent says, oh,
you should consider this. Have you thought about this question?
And so whether it's about salvation or pain and suffering
or identity or Christian growth, we want to have resources that,
like I said, kids can read in their own Bible
(07:25):
time or families can even use this in their family
devotional time together.
S1 (07:29):
All right. We're going to get into some of the
tough questions. Moms and dads. I'm just kind of doing
a little introductory work here, but we will get into
questions like, why doesn't God just save everybody? Or why
don't my struggles go away after I'm saved? One of
the things that I love about your books is that
they really become a cover up for us adults. Big kids,
(07:54):
if you will, to work through our questions. And that's
kind of how it works, doesn't it? Like, you start
out trying to answer a question that your kid, your son,
your daughter has brought to you. But really, you know,
they're tough questions. I see them as invitations for you
and I to go deeper.
S2 (08:14):
Yeah. For sure. And you know how it is as
a dad. You know, you're you're sitting down and you're
talking to your kids and they've got a great question.
And then you're hanging out with a friend at church
or somewhere else during the week, and you're saying you're
being honest and say, hey, so, you know, one of
my kids asked this question, have you been asked this question?
How did you answer? And so we're always learning from
(08:35):
each other. And that's just part of the beauty of
the body of Christ.
S1 (08:39):
Yeah. How important is it? A lot of conversation has
come up about this generation needing spaces to ask questions.
And the fact is that church can really be a
one way conversation if we're not careful. You know, we'll
have a wonderful music team that will stand and they'll
kind of sing from stage. And though we should be
(09:02):
singing with them, a lot of times you find that
that's not the case. And then a speaker will step
up and they'll expound about the Bible, and it'll be
a one way conversation. And you'll leave with all these
questions wondering, where do I process these things? This generation
seems to push back on that a little bit, saying, man,
(09:23):
I want a space where I can ask and process questions.
How important is that?
S2 (09:30):
Yeah, it's so important because we we want our kids
to feel free that they we are safe people, that
they can bring questions to. And in some ways, we
want them to think of us as the, the, the
hard questions experts like. So before they even had a
hard question, perhaps we're saying, have you thought about this question?
S1 (09:48):
Have you thought about that question?
S2 (09:49):
Uh, like like in a similar way, when our kids
were really little, uh, you know, elementary aged, we started
having conversations about, you know, what makes words good words,
what makes words bad words. And that made a very
interesting and awkward and hilarious dinner after dinner conversation with
our kids where we're talking about, okay, here's some of
the bad words that are out there. And, um, the
(10:13):
reality is, is we want to get out in front
of these things because when our kids have questions, they
know they can come talk to us. This isn't awkward
and strange. You know, this is just what moms and
dads talk to their kids about. And the same thing
is true with questions. Bring your hard questions. And if
dad or mom doesn't have the answer, that's okay. We're
going to pray about it and we're going to try
(10:33):
to find the answer. Let's keep the conversation open.
S1 (10:36):
I love everything you just said about that, including that
I'm the guy you turn to in the house, not Alexa.
We got a game going on in my house in
the Brooks household. Can there be Alexa? And I'm telling you,
I'm keeping score of how many times dad comes up
with an answer. And Alexa was wrong. Listen, we're going
(10:58):
to take a break. I'm so grateful, champ. Thornton, set
aside time to hang out with us today. Why? Because
salvation matters. So what does the Bible have to say
about salvation? We're going to dig into some of these really,
really good questions. On the other side of this break.
But for this break, I'd love for you to find
(11:20):
out more about champ and about the resource. Go to
Equip radio. Org. We'll be right back right after this.
(11:44):
The enemy loves to take our sexual struggles and build
strongholds to separate us from God. We start believing lies
like we can't go to church anymore or that God
couldn't possibly love us. Surrender Sexuality by Julie Slattery breaks
down those barriers and shows you the path to freedom
without shame and into the welcoming arms of Jesus. We'll
(12:07):
send you a copy with our thanks when you support
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Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded
and we won't be taking your calls. Welcome back to
(12:30):
equip with Chris Brooks. We certainly appreciate your partnership around here.
It is so good to know that you and I
are on mission together to take the gospel, the word
to the world. And I think this is a great
opportunity because there's a revival happening. I really do think
that there's an awakening that's happening across university campuses, young adults,
(12:54):
high schoolers that are asking questions about Jesus, curious about
the gospel, and open to hearing the message of Christ.
And I want us to walk through that door together,
and your generosity helps to make that possible. So I'm
going to ask you to do two things today. Number one,
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(13:15):
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(13:39):
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(13:59):
can you support today with your most generous gift? Go
to Equip radio. Org that's equipped radio.org. With that said,
I love the fact that today we get to process questions.
I think questions are our friends. Sam Thornton is with
me today. Talk about his resource, ten Questions About Salvation.
(14:21):
Before we dive into question number one, how were these
questions selected? Because obviously you could have done a book
on 100 questions or even a thousand questions. How did
you narrow it down to ten?
S2 (14:33):
Yeah. So that story goes back a long way, Chris,
because when I was in elementary school and into middle school,
I struggled with knowing, am I a Christian? And I
felt like I didn't have the kind of information and
teaching at least that registered in my mind. I'm sure
that I heard it probably from a youth pastor, a
(14:53):
pastor along the way, but there's questions that I had
that continued to stick around. So I remember the kinds
of questions that I had. And I also remember how
the Lord helped me as I was growing up, to
slowly come to some answers and solutions and assurances about
the gospel and about Jesus and about salvation. So I
feel like in some ways, this list of questions comes
(15:15):
out of a long time thinking about what are the
questions related to salvation that might be most helpful to kids?
And then we have a little ten questions team at
Crossway where, when when we have a new book in
this series Being Prepared, uh, the author will send in
a list of questions, and then we work on these
questions together. What can be sharpened or the ones that
(15:36):
we could add, uh, things like that, to try to
make it most helpful. So these, uh, colleagues of mine
have kids at different stages of life, and they're in
different ages and stages themselves. And so we want to
make sure that we are just thinking this through as
carefully and thoughtfully as we can.
S1 (15:52):
Well, a good parent, I believe in this day and
age creates a dinner table that questions can be asked
and answered at and. And let me just say, just
creating the dinner table in and of itself is a win. Uh,
but every night shouldn't be a hot and ready night.
Sometimes it's good to sit around a dinner table, but, uh,
(16:13):
it's good to ask these questions. And so, uh, I
want to say one more word about the structure as well.
With each one of these questions, you give three days
of devotionals and these kind of, uh, thoughtful, uh, devotionals.
They're not overwhelming. They're very accessible, very approachable. But they
do help us to think through how will we respond
(16:34):
and how do we take this journey with our children? Now,
I want to ask the obvious question. I don't want
to assume everybody knows what salvation is. So when we
talk about ten questions about salvation, what is salvation?
S2 (16:52):
Yeah. So when we talk about salvation, the Bible has
just a whole array of different terms about salvation. There's
redemption and ransom and forgiveness and the gospel. I mean,
all these terms. Justification. Yeah. Cleansing, forgiveness. All these terms
that kind of cluster around this big thing that God
is doing through his son, Jesus Christ to restore everything
(17:16):
that sin had ruined. And so these words describe different
aspects of it. You know, so, I mean, if someone said, hey,
describe for me your favorite carbonated beverage. In one word,
not the name, but describe it. I mean, good luck
with that, right? You have to have like, maybe lemon fizzy,
(17:38):
you know. Clear. Right. Something you know. And so when
it comes to yeah, forget soft drinks, but when we
talk about something as huge as what God is doing
in this world, oh, we need a whole bunch of
words and labels and descriptions to talk about what God
is doing. And salvation in some ways is probably the
biggest umbrella word for what God is doing. And he
(18:00):
is saving. He is rescuing sinners for his own name's sake.
S1 (18:05):
Yeah, I love this because you have to in order
to answer the question, talk about a few other things
as well, like sin. Uh, God is rescuing us from
the power of sin. The penalty of sin. Talk about
how sin brings brokenness into the world. The one thing
that is true, even for a young kid is I
(18:27):
think they can see the brokenness that's in the world.
And so this is where, because of this pain or
tension of the brokenness of the world, because of this,
God sent Jesus into the world to save or rescue us.
But as they get a little bit older, it's interesting
how the questions begin to change. Now, I told you,
(18:48):
I got a 14 year old at home. And here's
the thing, champ. My 14 year old, his closest friends
all have different faith backgrounds. It's so funny when they
get together. I mean, one comes from a Hindu family,
one comes from a family I don't think has any
kind of faith at all. Another comes from a Sikh
(19:10):
family that kind of background, and they're all really good buddies,
go to the same school. And my son, I really
commend him because he has let his light shine for Jesus,
and he interfaces with them really, really well. But I
but one of the questions that he's asked me and
I want to ask you, uh, is dad is, uh,
(19:33):
our view of salvation through Christ? Is that just our story,
or is Jesus Savior of the world? Is salvation only
through Jesus, champ?
S2 (19:46):
Yeah. So that's a fantastic question. And, uh, That it's
actually one of the questions we ask in this book.
Is Jesus the only way to salvation? Because a lot
of people will say, no, that's so narrow, that's so bigoted.
That is, um, uh, it's ignoring all the value of
all the other religions in the world. And, and the
(20:07):
reality is, is of these different religions also believe what
they believe. And so how do we even process like
is Christianity the one true religion? And really there's lots
of places you could start. But I think the best
place to start is, well, okay, who is Jesus Christ?
S3 (20:25):
That's right.
S2 (20:26):
And you have to. I love how C.S. Lewis put
this forward in Mere Christianity. And if I'm just kind
of ripping that off and I'm probably going to mangle
some of the way he talked about it, but basically
it's Jesus said some outrageous things. He claimed to forgive sin.
He claimed things that people understood him correctly as putting
(20:49):
himself on the same level as God. He raised the dead.
He said that all power is given to me. He
allowed people to worship him. So some of the things
that he claimed about himself are just wildly extravagant. And
then you have to ask, well, what does that mean?
So as C.S. Lewis says, you know, either he is lying.
(21:11):
In other words, he says these things, but it's not true.
And so if we pause to consider that, you realize, um,
what about the rest of his life? Does he seem
like he's lying? Does it seem like he's a deceptive person?
And everything else we know about Jesus from the gospels
shows he's not lying. He's a man of incredible integrity.
And he's someone who, like, gave his life for a lie. Really?
(21:36):
So it seems like saying that he's lying is not
even an option. So maybe he's just out of his mind.
He's a lunatic. And the reality is, is you look
at the way he taught, the way he answered questions,
the way he composed himself. He's a genius. And so
if he makes these outrageous statements about himself that he's
divine and he's not lying and he's not a lunatic,
(21:58):
then I mean, maybe he's some legend that the disciples
made up, but that doesn't have legs either. That you
have to realize, like, then he actually is who he
says he is.
S3 (22:07):
That's right.
S1 (22:09):
And that means that he's Lord. That's right. I love
the way you laid that out. And one of the
things I've said to my son and my children more
broadly is like, hey, listen, this is a great question,
but just know for the rest of your life you're
going to have to evaluate between various viewpoints on a
whole host of things morality, God, life, salvation. And you're
(22:35):
going to have to, uh, do the evaluation and come
to a conclusion of which is more faithful, more reliable.
And the reason why we believe that Jesus is Lord
of all is because in doing the evaluation, that's what
he claimed to be and he is a credible witness.
You just laid out the reasons why. And so this
(22:58):
is why we accept that Jesus is not just Lord
for us. He is Lord of all. And so I
love the fact that the book doesn't run away from
that question. And some of these questions are are really
tough questions. And I think that this is where moms
and dads have to invite their kids to not only
ask these questions, champ, but even broach them themselves. And
(23:22):
I think there is some fear. And we got about
a minute left. But what would you say to the
parent who's afraid to bring up some of these questions?
What if I plant this seed in my child's mind
and they weren't even thinking about it?
S2 (23:35):
Yeah. I mean, I know that kind of fear, right? And,
I mean, we're afraid as parents of all sorts of
things for our kids, whether it's physical harm or spiritual harm.
And one time I was just gripped with this kind
of fear for one of my kids, and it was irrational.
I knew it was irrational, but I mean, what can
you do when you're feeling this? And I well, I
called a friend and I said, I'm really struggling. What
(23:57):
do I do? And I'll never forget what he said
to me, Chris. He said, champ, God loves your son
more than you do. And that's what I needed to
hear at that moment. It's like, it's okay. He, the
Lord has him and you don't need to be afraid.
And so I I'm reminded of that, that that is
something that I need to remind myself of regularly.
S1 (24:18):
Well, the gospel, you define it in the book as
good news or amazing. An amazing announcement of the salvation
of God through Jesus Christ. I like to think of
the gospel as breaking news that interrupts an otherwise busy
and distracted life. And some people in our lives right now,
(24:40):
they need that type of breaking news. We interrupt your
regularly scheduled programming for breaking news that Jesus is Lord,
that we don't have to give in to the brokenness
and the despair of this world, that Christ has come
to rescue us from our sins. And if we turn
(25:02):
to him, we can experience salvation and new life in Christ.
I want you to experience that new life in Christ.
We would love to wrap our arms around you as
you take your next step in your journey with Jesus.
And so if that's you, don't hesitate. Give us a
call today. Dial this number 877548 3675. We'd love to
(25:27):
pray with you. Listen, today can be the day of salvation.
Maybe these are questions that you have processed through and
you say, I'm so glad you're talking about this. You
can get a copy of champ's resource Ten questions about
salvation by going to our website. Go to equip radio.org.
(25:49):
That's equip radio Dot. You can find out more. Also
remember social media is available to you 24 hours a day,
seven days a week. Find us on Twitter and Facebook.
Go to Equip Radio. We'll talk to you soon. Chris
(26:16):
Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and
we won't be taking your calls. Welcome back friends. Having
a fascinating conversation with Champ Thornton from Crossway Resources. He
oversees and directs children and family resources there with our
(26:38):
friends at Crossway. His newest book, ten Questions about salvation.
This is 30 devotions for kids, teens, and families. I'm
so grateful that champ has put together this resource. All right, champ.
Do you want to know? I want to I want
to know if you can guess this. What my favorite
(26:59):
page of your book was.
S2 (27:03):
I the last page? No, I don't know.
S1 (27:06):
Nope, nope. It was the dedication page. I love that
you dedicated your book to Robin. You say for Robin,
my best friend, beloved wife and partner in the gospel
of Christ. Talk about the role she's played on your
in your faith journey. And, uh, even in passing down
(27:29):
your faith to your children.
S2 (27:32):
Oh, wow. Where to begin? Uh, she is my life
and ministry partner. More than words can even describe. Scribe. And, uh,
she's just so full of wisdom and love. And I
see the way that, you know, she's so good at conversation.
And with my kids, sometimes I'm in the car, I'm
(27:53):
driving them home, and I'm like, how was your day?
And I hear, you know, fine. And I was like,
what did you do? And stuff, you know? And I
want to I want to get like, you know, better
conversation going. And I see my wife, she just navigates
conversations with our kids so well and, and, uh, I'm
just so thankful for her and the way that she
(28:15):
she draws our kids out. She's so good with conversation,
pointing them to Jesus and with just common sense and
biblical wisdom. So it's.
S3 (28:23):
That's awesome.
S2 (28:24):
Yeah, it's a blessing.
S1 (28:25):
Well, and this is, uh, this gives me the opportunity
to just kind of talk about, uh, God's plan for
the family. Right? Uh, praise God, uh, for, uh, husbands
and wives who are in covenant with one another, but
also in covenant with God. I do think that it
is a team effort when it comes to passing our
(28:47):
faith to our children. It certainly should be, uh, us
partnering with the Lord as his grace is at work
in and through us. And so if you are a
believer in Jesus and you're married to a Christian spouse,
I would encourage you to sit down and have a
(29:08):
conversation and be intentional about man. How can we together
work together to share the gospel with our kids and
to not only share the gospel, but more importantly, to
live it, uh, before them, as they as they watch us, uh,
kind of stumble at times, fall, get back up again, repent,
dust ourselves off, find ourselves at the foot of the
(29:30):
cross begging for grace one more time. You know all
of that is a part of the journey, and I'm
grateful that you and Robin get to take it together.
But what do you say to those parents who feel
ill equipped for all of this? They're listening and they say, man, uh,
maybe my family structure isn't like yours. Champ may not
(29:51):
even live in the same home as my kids. Maybe
have an estranged relationship. Maybe I've blown it even in
the past and wish I would have did better. But
I've made mistakes. What do you say to that?
S2 (30:06):
Oh, Jesus is enough. I want to start there. Uh,
and because when we think about our parenting, I mean,
who of us would say, oh, we've got this figured out?
I mean, we think we're there to help our children
become more like Jesus. I think he gives us children
so that we can become more like Jesus. You know,
if we think it's about helping our kids and it's
(30:28):
like Jesus is changing us because.
S3 (30:30):
The big.
S1 (30:30):
Setup, right?
S3 (30:31):
It was all a big set up.
S2 (30:34):
Exactly. And, you know, the reality is, is it's not
a matter of, okay, how can I teach my kids?
The reality is, is we're always teaching our kids. The
real question is, what are we teaching our kids? And
so on. My on my good days, I'm teaching them.
On my bad days I'm teaching them. Everything is a
teaching opportunity and everything is a teaching moment. And so
(30:57):
let's just say that I've not I've realized that I've
really not succeeded well as a parent in this particular scenario,
for whatever reason. You know, the Bible has a category
for that. What do we do, Chris, when we realize
we've fallen short of what God expects? It's always the same.
All through the Bible, we repent. We say, oh God,
(31:19):
I was wrong. Please forgive me. Yeah, right. And where
it's affected other people, we make that right with them, too.
We acknowledge it, we confess to them. And so, I mean,
how many times have I I'm thinking like, especially on
trips which are like highly stressful times for me where
like long car trips that my kids kind of, they know, like, okay,
dad's going to be, you know, stressed out today that
how many times have I said to my kids, hey, I,
(31:41):
I was short with you back there when we were
at the, at the rest stop. Um, and you were
about to run into traffic or whatever the.
S3 (31:48):
Scenario, right?
S2 (31:50):
And, uh, you know, I was short with you. Would
you forgive me? I was wrong. What? I spoke out
of a sinful perspective and not a kind and loving perspective.
Would you forgive me? So whatever the moment is, even
if it feels like, oh, that's our worst parenting moment ever. Well,
because of Jesus and his grace, which is always there
for his people, that we can say I, we can
(32:12):
ask them to forgive us too, and we can become
another kind of teaching moment.
S1 (32:16):
Well, you know, it's really important for us to remember
grace is, uh, not just needed for salvation. It's needed
for every day of our lives as well. And so
if you tuned in for the class on perfect parenting,
that's down the hall, all you got in this class
is me and champ talking about the desperate need for
(32:38):
God's grace that we all have. And so if you're
in an imperfect parent, then join the club. But just
thank God for his absolutely perfect grace. Now, champ, you
didn't back away from any of the tough questions in
this book, so I want to toss out another one
for you to give maybe a brief response to. And
(32:58):
that is why doesn't God just save everyone?
S2 (33:04):
Wow. So it's a great question. And I think when
we come to really hard topics in the Bible, there
are often two ways to think about it. So, uh,
when we think about, like, driving a car, how does
you know, how did you get in the car? How
did you operate the car to get here today? Right.
So how did that work? You answer those kind of
(33:24):
questions in one of two ways. You can either talk
about kind of the the experience of a user, a driver,
you know, you got a key in your hand and
you get in the car and you shut the door,
and you, there's pedals and buttons and you know, that's
how the car works, right? How does the car work?
How do you drive where you get in the driver's seat?
But if I said, how does the car work? Another
way to answer that is to is of an expert,
(33:45):
a designer, a creator, a mechanic, as it were. And
you pop the hood and there's a carburetor and all
sorts of things that I don't understand going on under
the hood. And the Bible tends to have those kind
of two ways of thinking about really hard topics. So
in some ways someone might say, why doesn't God save
everyone and there's a pop the hood kind of complexity
(34:06):
that I wouldn't begin to be able to explain. And yet,
I think the Bible talks kind of in a user
format behind the steering wheel, the way we actually experience it.
In some ways that are a little easier to grasp.
So briefly, why doesn't God save everyone? Well, if we're
restricting our answer just to kind of behind the steering wheel,
I would say the Bible offers salvation to all and
(34:31):
that the the people who are not Christians are not
Christians because they don't want to be Christians and that
they they have they they are not wanting faith in Jesus.
And we go to the we see this all throughout
the Bible. Like, you know, God says he gives people
over to their own desires. They this is what they want.
(34:54):
They didn't want God. And you go, well, isn't there
more to the the question, the more to the answer
to that question. Yes. But it's it's very complex and
it's definitely kind of an under the hood kind of conversation.
S3 (35:06):
That's right. Yeah.
S1 (35:07):
Well, you know, and the other thing that I think
is important is for us to consider the alternatives, right.
So the alternative is, hey, he can force everyone to
love him, but love that's forced. Is that really love?
Is that is that really choosing Christ for salvation? If
(35:29):
everyone was coerced into salvation. And I think it's important
for us to understand that God actually gives us a
real opportunity to put our faith and our trust in him. Now,
how all of that works together, the wonderful mixing bowl
of God's sovereignty and human responsibility. It'll take us a
(35:51):
few millennia, champ, to talk that through. But what I
do know is that God gives you and I the
opportunity to choose him. And I pray that for some,
today would be the day. Now, if you're looking for
a missionary or an evangelist or a pastor to come
and share the gospel with your children, I got good
(36:14):
news for you. That's your job. You are the missionary
that God chose to carry the gospel to your kids.
And even better news. You can do it. And one
of the ways that champ wants to help you do
it is just to get this resource into your hands.
These devotionals, 30 in total, will help you to talk
(36:36):
to your kids about the best news of all. Once
you go to our website, equip radio.org. We'll be right back.
Do you have questions about your sexuality that no one
seems to address? Whether it's sexual sin, gender confusion, or
issues in your marriage, Surrender Sexuality by Doctor Julie Slattery
(36:58):
has insights you need. She'll help you to see that
God wants to be invited into your questions and struggles.
And when you do, everything changes. Request your copy with
your gift of any amount. To equip, simply call 888644
4144 or visit Equip Radio Org. Welcome back to equip
(37:24):
with Chris Brooks. Time flies when you're having a great conversation.
Such is the case today. Champ Thornton is my guest.
We're talking about his newest book, Ten Questions About Salvation,
and I am loving it as a parent, as a pastor,
as someone who really wants to see your kids come
to Christ. One of my greatest prayers is for the
(37:47):
Lord to send revival to our children and grandchildren. And oh,
by the way, this is a great resource for grandparents
as well. You know champ, I am super blessed. My mom,
Pat Brooks big shout out to my mom. She has
nightly devotions with her grandkids, nightly devotions with her grandkids,
(38:07):
and my brother's kids live out of state and they
do it kind of using technology FaceTime, zoom, whatever it takes.
And praise God for grandparents as well. This book is
really written with everybody in mind. Talk a little bit
about what your hope is on how this book will
be used.
S2 (38:27):
When I wrote it, I was really envisioning, Chris, that, uh,
you know, an eight year old or a 12 year
old would sit down and use this for a number
of weeks in their personal time with the Lord each
day or most every day. But what I'm hearing, as
the book is now kind of out there and being used,
is that families are using this in their Bible time together,
whether it's at breakfast or at dinner or after dinner.
(38:49):
And I love that. So I feel like it's really
one of those kind of books that you could use
in either location, whatever serves your family best. Yeah.
S3 (38:57):
Can I ask what your.
S2 (38:58):
What your mom's doing with the grandkids?
S3 (39:00):
That is absolutely.
S2 (39:02):
Wonderful. And they're never going to forget that.
S1 (39:05):
I hit the mom lottery. I'll be honest with you.
I got hooked up in that area. Let me just
throw out another way. I think this is a great
resource for is the local church. I am a pastor
who loves pastors, and I know every pastor is thinking
through ministry to the whole family. Uh, church is the
(39:25):
primary place where discipleship happens, the local church. And so
if you're a pastor looking for a resource for kids ministry,
I think this is a great resource. We have to
use resources like this to lay the foundation, the building
blocks for a life long faith in Jesus. Let me
(39:47):
ask also, champ, for those who, uh, pick up the
book or the resource. Do you have to do it
in ten straight sessions, or do you get a little
bit of flexibility in how you navigate it?
S2 (40:01):
I think there's some flexibility built in. So each of
the questions, they could stand alone, you could go to
the ninth question first and then move to the second
or the third. It doesn't really matter. The sequence, of course,
as you mentioned earlier, uh, each question, the the answer,
the discussion about that particular question unfolds over the course
of three daily devotions. So while you're in, you know
(40:22):
that particular question. It's probably good to stay within that rhythm,
but then you can skip to a different question that
has that's of more interest to you at that time.
S1 (40:30):
Let's ask one more question. As we get ready to close.
Why don't my struggles go away after I come to Christ?
I mean, hey, uh, maybe it was explained that way.
Maybe somebody said, you give your life to Jesus, you'll
lose £50. Your hair. Grow back. Whatever the case may be,
you know, uh. But why don't my struggles go away?
S2 (40:51):
Yeah. So when we become Christians, God makes us his own. And,
you know, the Bible calls us saints. Uh, that means
we're holy. We belong to him. Uh, and but at
the same time, look, you know, our life, we live
in a broken world. We're not in heaven yet. And
so while we're in this broken world, we're going to
be sufferers. And not only that, suffering could be from
(41:14):
other people or situations or health or relationally. But then also,
like we're involved in some of the problem too, that
we're not only saints and sufferers, but were also sinners.
We we mess up too. And so we're broken. And
we live in a broken world for now. And so, yes,
life is messed up. It's a bit of a swirl.
(41:35):
It's all kind of swirled together. And the Bible is
just so honest about this. Chris, I love that when
you go to the Psalms, for example, Psalm 25, David
confesses his sin that he's messed up. He confesses the
fact that life is hard for him, and he confesses
the fact that he belongs to God. I mean, all
these things are true and all at the same time.
And so we just need to have a very biblical
(41:58):
and level headed and just clear eyed view of who
we are in this world. And just because we belong
to Jesus doesn't mean that he protects us from everything.
But we know that he walks with us through everything.
S1 (42:10):
All right, some moms, some dad is listening to us
right now. Who says my child has yet to profess
faith in Jesus? What do you tell them? They need
to do next? What should they do today?
S2 (42:26):
Yeah. So what I would encourage moms and dads to
do is to think about the fact that when you
become a Christian, yes, you're putting you're returning from your sin.
That's repentance. And you're turning to Jesus Christ for his mercy,
his grace, his forgiveness. That's faith. We're turning away from sin.
We're turning to Jesus. We we're repenting. We're believing. Yes,
(42:47):
but that doesn't just happen at the moment of conversion,
when we become a Christian that marks every day of
our Christian life. Multiple times throughout the day, we're turning
from sin. We're turning to Jesus. It's. It's what our lives.
It's the warp and woof of our lives. It's a
regular daily pattern for Christians. And so, yes, there is
(43:10):
a first time when someone actually became a Christian, right?
It's an event. It's it happens. It doesn't just you
don't just drift into being a Christian. But I don't
always know when I became a Christian. If you've got
a three year old and you know they throw a
toy at one of their brother or sister. Okay. Lead
them into let's repent of our sin. Let's tell Jesus
(43:31):
we're sorry and ask him to forgive us. Well, does
that mean that they instantly became a Christian? I don't know. Maybe.
Maybe not. That we don't. We're not called to figure
out exactly when that happened. But we want them to
be in a pattern of always repenting and trusting Jesus
with the view that, God willing, one of these days,
they will. It will be that moment, and they will
(43:54):
go from darkness to light. It's not a special event
that we kind of have to save our ammunition and
then boom, one day, now it happens. This ought to
be what we're encouraging our children to do when they
sin all the time.
S1 (44:06):
Two things that I really want mom and dads to remember,
number one, that our kids oftentimes are one invitation away
from making Jesus their Lord. Um. let's make sure we're
making the invitation. Not just living the Christian life in
front of them, but making an invitation to follow Jesus,
(44:30):
to make Jesus the center of your life, to really
surrender your heart to him. So make that invitation. I
will tell you this, uh, as a pastor, as much
as I love champ, when men and women come forward
at church or after a message, seek me out and say, man,
I believe I want to surrender my life to Jesus.
(44:52):
I love even more salvation stories that happened in living rooms,
at kitchen tables, in dining rooms. In other words, I
pray that our homes would be the central place, the
headquarters for God's next great revival. I really do pray that, um,
(45:13):
the second thing that I want people to remember is
you're not in it alone. That's exactly why we brought
champ on. So that we can talk to you about
not only this resource, but champ. There's a ton of
resources that you guys have put out that really are
designed to help moms and dads as they navigate through
(45:35):
this really, really important season of faith, journey and life
for their kids. That 8 to 14. It's not that
they can't be one after that, but that is really
a great window, isn't it?
S2 (45:50):
Absolutely. I mean, God made kids to be receptive, to
listen to mom and dad. I mean, largely right. We're
shaping their lives.
S3 (45:57):
And so we.
S2 (45:57):
Need to take advantage of that opportunity and window that
God has given us as parents.
S1 (46:01):
Hey, as a dad who has an 18 year old,
almost 19 and a five year old, I would just
tell you, it is so awesome being the coolest man
in the world, and I'm the coolest man in the
world from about 8 to 14 by 8 to 14.
Dad is the coolest guy in the room now. By
(46:22):
the time they get to 15, they start realizing, uh,
maybe dad isn't as cool as I thought he was.
Can you drop me off around the corner and I'll
just walk to the front door? But but enjoy it and, uh,
lean into it, champ. You're a huge blessing, brother. So
grateful for you and Robin. Lord bless the Thornton family.
(46:44):
We ask and bless many families as we share the gospel.
The good news, the amazing announcement of salvation through Christ. Amen.
Well friends, I hope you've been blessed. I can't wait
till we're together again next time. Until then, remember, equipped
with Chris Brooks is the production of Moody Radio, a
(47:05):
ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Today's program is pre-recorded and we won't be taking your calls.
Well hey there friends, welcome to another exciting edition of
equip with Chris Brooks. I'm so thrilled that you've joined
us today. Why don't you do me a favor? Strap
on your seatbelt. We're going to navigate through the contours
of culture, as always, with the lens of the biblical
(00:38):
worldview on. But before we do that, let me remind
you this is the day that the Lord has made.
He is given it as a gift so that you
and I can rejoice and be glad in it. So
let's do just that. Let's follow the words of the
Apostle Paul. Let's rejoice in the Lord always. And again
I say, rejoice. Well, if you're a parent, a mom,
(00:59):
or a dad, there are few things more important to
you than the passing of your faith to your children.
I think that every Christian parent out there knows what
it's like to carry with them, their children in their
heart and to pray, Lord, save my son. Save my daughter.
Our kids salvation is first and foremost priority to us.
(01:23):
But one of the things that typically happens when a
kid is trying to process through faith is questions. And
many of us have been on the other side of
those questions, thinking, how in the world do I answer
this question? Maybe you remember if you're a kid of
(01:43):
the 80s, like I was this show that was entitled
Kids Say the Funniest Things. Uh, it was a great show,
and they would talk about a whole assortment of things
and just get kids opinions on it. And, uh, and
it's true when it comes to questions about God, about life,
about salvation as well. Kids say the funniest things and
(02:05):
they ask the toughest questions. I gotta be honest with you,
I've been in front of audiences to answer questions you
guys know I love apologetic moments and being able to
stand before questioners about the Christian faith. But if you
want to get my knees knocking a little bit, put
me in front of a room full of kids because
(02:26):
they ask the toughest questions. That's why I'm always on
the hunt for great resources, such as the case in
a new book that I want to commend to you
today is simply entitled ten Questions About Salvation. And I love, love,
love this resource, and I want you to check it
(02:47):
out at our website. Equip radio.org. The author is Champ Thornton.
Many of you know champ from his writings. Uh, champ
is the director of Children and Family Resources at Crossway,
has a PhD from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Him and
his wife, Robin, have, uh, a couple of, uh, really
(03:11):
energetic kids that they love deeply, and he has dedicated
his life to equipping parents, just like you and me,
to answer the tough and and the funny questions that
our kids ask about God. Champ, how are you, brother Chris?
S2 (03:27):
I'm doing good. How are you doing today?
S1 (03:28):
I'm doing really, really well and I'm grateful to have
you on. I told you earlier, I'm going to take
off my host hat, put on my parent hat, because
I'm really interested in this. Being a parent myself and
trying my best to be faithful to this call of
helping my kids to know and love Jesus. But but
let me just start by asking you, why dedicate your
(03:50):
life to, uh, resources for for parents and kids to
know Jesus, you could have really gone in any direction.
Why this?
S2 (04:03):
Yeah, it's a great question. I feel like you said
about the parent had it's like, you know, the reality is, Chris,
you and I both I mean, we're always wearing that hat, right?
It really never comes off. And, uh, when I was
29 years old, and I'm. Let's just say that was
quite a few years ago, I, uh, developed a blood clot,
and it developed into a pulmonary embolism. And then, you know,
(04:25):
people died from that. And God spared my life. And
what I found out is I have a blood disorder
that inclines me toward clotting. And so while it's, you know,
so far, it's medically contained and everything's good. Uh, you know,
there was a season in my life when, you know,
I was in my late 20s and early 30s that
I thought about death a lot because I hadn't been
thinking about it a lot before. And then, you know,
(04:48):
kids come along and you think, you know, it is important.
I'm not always going to be here. I want to
make sure that I'm passing on to my kids. Uh, what?
I think God would have them to know what's important
in life. What are the priorities and and how can
I shape them? And maybe, even if I'm not around,
what kinds of things can I leave them that will,
(05:09):
God willing, shape their lives. And so, you know, these
kinds of factors have played into part of the trajectory
of my life, which was never on my bingo card
when I was in seminary, which is writing for kids.
And I'm just so grateful that God has used even
a difficult situation to, uh, to bring unexpected good.
S1 (05:30):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that, because I think that God
uses a whole assortment of things to kind of awaken
us to the urgency of the moment. And you just
talked about your own medical journey for some that are
listening to us right now, maybe their motivation for saying
I need a resource like this is the fact that
(05:50):
maybe their child is going through a medical journey, or
maybe they are watching their child drift away from the faith,
or maybe just coming to salvation themselves. Whatever the reason,
I think this book is great for every Christian home.
I mean that sincerely. So let's just talk about it.
(06:12):
Why ten questions? What made you say I need to
do this project right now?
S2 (06:19):
Yeah. So I'm thinking about how can we serve families
and their kids. And when we say kids, this book
is geared for kids ages 8 to 14. So that
late elementary school middle school age and, you know, so
they're out of picture books. They're not reading those much anymore,
but they're into the next phase. And at this phase,
(06:39):
as you mentioned earlier, I mean, kids have great questions. Yeah.
So let's listen to those questions and then try to
go to God's Word and provide answers for those questions.
And so as Director of Children and Family Resources here
at Crossway, I wanted to be able to have not
just one book, but maybe even a series of books. Yeah,
ten questions series where we can provide resources that moms
(07:03):
and dads can put into kids hands for their Bible
time with the Lord on questions that maybe they have,
or maybe they don't have yet, but their parent says, oh,
you should consider this. Have you thought about this question?
And so whether it's about salvation or pain and suffering
or identity or Christian growth, we want to have resources that,
like I said, kids can read in their own Bible
(07:25):
time or families can even use this in their family
devotional time together.
S1 (07:29):
All right. We're going to get into some of the
tough questions. Moms and dads. I'm just kind of doing
a little introductory work here, but we will get into
questions like, why doesn't God just save everybody? Or why
don't my struggles go away after I'm saved? One of
the things that I love about your books is that
they really become a cover up for us adults. Big kids,
(07:54):
if you will, to work through our questions. And that's
kind of how it works, doesn't it? Like, you start
out trying to answer a question that your kid, your son,
your daughter has brought to you. But really, you know,
they're tough questions. I see them as invitations for you
and I to go deeper.
S2 (08:14):
Yeah. For sure. And you know how it is as
a dad. You know, you're you're sitting down and you're
talking to your kids and they've got a great question.
And then you're hanging out with a friend at church
or somewhere else during the week, and you're saying you're
being honest and say, hey, so, you know, one of
my kids asked this question, have you been asked this question?
How did you answer? And so we're always learning from
(08:35):
each other. And that's just part of the beauty of
the body of Christ.
S1 (08:39):
Yeah. How important is it? A lot of conversation has
come up about this generation needing spaces to ask questions.
And the fact is that church can really be a
one way conversation if we're not careful. You know, we'll
have a wonderful music team that will stand and they'll
kind of sing from stage. And though we should be
(09:02):
singing with them, a lot of times you find that
that's not the case. And then a speaker will step
up and they'll expound about the Bible, and it'll be
a one way conversation. And you'll leave with all these
questions wondering, where do I process these things? This generation
seems to push back on that a little bit, saying, man,
(09:23):
I want a space where I can ask and process questions.
How important is that?
S2 (09:30):
Yeah, it's so important because we we want our kids
to feel free that they we are safe people, that
they can bring questions to. And in some ways, we
want them to think of us as the, the, the
hard questions experts like. So before they even had a
hard question, perhaps we're saying, have you thought about this question?
S1 (09:48):
Have you thought about that question?
S2 (09:49):
Uh, like like in a similar way, when our kids
were really little, uh, you know, elementary aged, we started
having conversations about, you know, what makes words good words,
what makes words bad words. And that made a very
interesting and awkward and hilarious dinner after dinner conversation with
our kids where we're talking about, okay, here's some of
the bad words that are out there. And, um, the
(10:13):
reality is, is we want to get out in front
of these things because when our kids have questions, they
know they can come talk to us. This isn't awkward
and strange. You know, this is just what moms and
dads talk to their kids about. And the same thing
is true with questions. Bring your hard questions. And if
dad or mom doesn't have the answer, that's okay. We're
going to pray about it and we're going to try
(10:33):
to find the answer. Let's keep the conversation open.
S1 (10:36):
I love everything you just said about that, including that
I'm the guy you turn to in the house, not Alexa.
We got a game going on in my house in
the Brooks household. Can there be Alexa? And I'm telling you,
I'm keeping score of how many times dad comes up
with an answer. And Alexa was wrong. Listen, we're going
(10:58):
to take a break. I'm so grateful, champ. Thornton, set
aside time to hang out with us today. Why? Because
salvation matters. So what does the Bible have to say
about salvation? We're going to dig into some of these really,
really good questions. On the other side of this break.
But for this break, I'd love for you to find
(11:20):
out more about champ and about the resource. Go to
Equip radio. Org. We'll be right back right after this.
(11:44):
The enemy loves to take our sexual struggles and build
strongholds to separate us from God. We start believing lies
like we can't go to church anymore or that God
couldn't possibly love us. Surrender Sexuality by Julie Slattery breaks
down those barriers and shows you the path to freedom
without shame and into the welcoming arms of Jesus. We'll
(12:07):
send you a copy with our thanks when you support
equip this month. Simply call 888644 4144 or visit Equip radio.org.
Chris Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded
and we won't be taking your calls. Welcome back to
(12:30):
equip with Chris Brooks. We certainly appreciate your partnership around here.
It is so good to know that you and I
are on mission together to take the gospel, the word
to the world. And I think this is a great
opportunity because there's a revival happening. I really do think
that there's an awakening that's happening across university campuses, young adults,
(12:54):
high schoolers that are asking questions about Jesus, curious about
the gospel, and open to hearing the message of Christ.
And I want us to walk through that door together,
and your generosity helps to make that possible. So I'm
going to ask you to do two things today. Number one,
can you pray pray with us that God would open
(13:15):
up doors of, uh, of ministry, that God will open
up doors of revival, if you will, for us to
be able to walk through those doors. Also, I would
love for you to consider, um, making a gift to
Moody Radio to support equip. Moody is the name you
can trust. Moody has such a long history of gospel faithfulness,
(13:39):
and one of the reasons why Moody has been able
to be faithful is because we're not government underwritten. We're
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(13:59):
can you support today with your most generous gift? Go
to Equip radio. Org that's equipped radio.org. With that said,
I love the fact that today we get to process questions.
I think questions are our friends. Sam Thornton is with
me today. Talk about his resource, ten Questions About Salvation.
(14:21):
Before we dive into question number one, how were these
questions selected? Because obviously you could have done a book
on 100 questions or even a thousand questions. How did
you narrow it down to ten?
S2 (14:33):
Yeah. So that story goes back a long way, Chris,
because when I was in elementary school and into middle school,
I struggled with knowing, am I a Christian? And I
felt like I didn't have the kind of information and
teaching at least that registered in my mind. I'm sure
that I heard it probably from a youth pastor, a
(14:53):
pastor along the way, but there's questions that I had
that continued to stick around. So I remember the kinds
of questions that I had. And I also remember how
the Lord helped me as I was growing up, to
slowly come to some answers and solutions and assurances about
the gospel and about Jesus and about salvation. So I
feel like in some ways, this list of questions comes
(15:15):
out of a long time thinking about what are the
questions related to salvation that might be most helpful to kids?
And then we have a little ten questions team at
Crossway where, when when we have a new book in
this series Being Prepared, uh, the author will send in
a list of questions, and then we work on these
questions together. What can be sharpened or the ones that
(15:36):
we could add, uh, things like that, to try to
make it most helpful. So these, uh, colleagues of mine
have kids at different stages of life, and they're in
different ages and stages themselves. And so we want to
make sure that we are just thinking this through as
carefully and thoughtfully as we can.
S1 (15:52):
Well, a good parent, I believe in this day and
age creates a dinner table that questions can be asked
and answered at and. And let me just say, just
creating the dinner table in and of itself is a win. Uh,
but every night shouldn't be a hot and ready night.
Sometimes it's good to sit around a dinner table, but, uh,
(16:13):
it's good to ask these questions. And so, uh, I
want to say one more word about the structure as well.
With each one of these questions, you give three days
of devotionals and these kind of, uh, thoughtful, uh, devotionals.
They're not overwhelming. They're very accessible, very approachable. But they
do help us to think through how will we respond
(16:34):
and how do we take this journey with our children? Now,
I want to ask the obvious question. I don't want
to assume everybody knows what salvation is. So when we
talk about ten questions about salvation, what is salvation?
S2 (16:52):
Yeah. So when we talk about salvation, the Bible has
just a whole array of different terms about salvation. There's
redemption and ransom and forgiveness and the gospel. I mean,
all these terms. Justification. Yeah. Cleansing, forgiveness. All these terms
that kind of cluster around this big thing that God
is doing through his son, Jesus Christ to restore everything
(17:16):
that sin had ruined. And so these words describe different
aspects of it. You know, so, I mean, if someone said, hey,
describe for me your favorite carbonated beverage. In one word,
not the name, but describe it. I mean, good luck
with that, right? You have to have like, maybe lemon fizzy,
(17:38):
you know. Clear. Right. Something you know. And so when
it comes to yeah, forget soft drinks, but when we
talk about something as huge as what God is doing
in this world, oh, we need a whole bunch of
words and labels and descriptions to talk about what God
is doing. And salvation in some ways is probably the
biggest umbrella word for what God is doing. And he
(18:00):
is saving. He is rescuing sinners for his own name's sake.
S1 (18:05):
Yeah, I love this because you have to in order
to answer the question, talk about a few other things
as well, like sin. Uh, God is rescuing us from
the power of sin. The penalty of sin. Talk about
how sin brings brokenness into the world. The one thing
that is true, even for a young kid is I
(18:27):
think they can see the brokenness that's in the world.
And so this is where, because of this pain or
tension of the brokenness of the world, because of this,
God sent Jesus into the world to save or rescue us.
But as they get a little bit older, it's interesting
how the questions begin to change. Now, I told you,
(18:48):
I got a 14 year old at home. And here's
the thing, champ. My 14 year old, his closest friends
all have different faith backgrounds. It's so funny when they
get together. I mean, one comes from a Hindu family,
one comes from a family I don't think has any
kind of faith at all. Another comes from a Sikh
(19:10):
family that kind of background, and they're all really good buddies,
go to the same school. And my son, I really
commend him because he has let his light shine for Jesus,
and he interfaces with them really, really well. But I
but one of the questions that he's asked me and
I want to ask you, uh, is dad is, uh,
(19:33):
our view of salvation through Christ? Is that just our story,
or is Jesus Savior of the world? Is salvation only
through Jesus, champ?
S2 (19:46):
Yeah. So that's a fantastic question. And, uh, That it's
actually one of the questions we ask in this book.
Is Jesus the only way to salvation? Because a lot
of people will say, no, that's so narrow, that's so bigoted.
That is, um, uh, it's ignoring all the value of
all the other religions in the world. And, and the
(20:07):
reality is, is of these different religions also believe what
they believe. And so how do we even process like
is Christianity the one true religion? And really there's lots
of places you could start. But I think the best
place to start is, well, okay, who is Jesus Christ?
S3 (20:25):
That's right.
S2 (20:26):
And you have to. I love how C.S. Lewis put
this forward in Mere Christianity. And if I'm just kind
of ripping that off and I'm probably going to mangle
some of the way he talked about it, but basically
it's Jesus said some outrageous things. He claimed to forgive sin.
He claimed things that people understood him correctly as putting
(20:49):
himself on the same level as God. He raised the dead.
He said that all power is given to me. He
allowed people to worship him. So some of the things
that he claimed about himself are just wildly extravagant. And
then you have to ask, well, what does that mean?
So as C.S. Lewis says, you know, either he is lying.
(21:11):
In other words, he says these things, but it's not true.
And so if we pause to consider that, you realize, um,
what about the rest of his life? Does he seem
like he's lying? Does it seem like he's a deceptive person?
And everything else we know about Jesus from the gospels
shows he's not lying. He's a man of incredible integrity.
And he's someone who, like, gave his life for a lie. Really?
(21:36):
So it seems like saying that he's lying is not
even an option. So maybe he's just out of his mind.
He's a lunatic. And the reality is, is you look
at the way he taught, the way he answered questions,
the way he composed himself. He's a genius. And so
if he makes these outrageous statements about himself that he's
divine and he's not lying and he's not a lunatic,
(21:58):
then I mean, maybe he's some legend that the disciples
made up, but that doesn't have legs either. That you
have to realize, like, then he actually is who he
says he is.
S3 (22:07):
That's right.
S1 (22:09):
And that means that he's Lord. That's right. I love
the way you laid that out. And one of the
things I've said to my son and my children more
broadly is like, hey, listen, this is a great question,
but just know for the rest of your life you're
going to have to evaluate between various viewpoints on a
whole host of things morality, God, life, salvation. And you're
(22:35):
going to have to, uh, do the evaluation and come
to a conclusion of which is more faithful, more reliable.
And the reason why we believe that Jesus is Lord
of all is because in doing the evaluation, that's what
he claimed to be and he is a credible witness.
You just laid out the reasons why. And so this
(22:58):
is why we accept that Jesus is not just Lord
for us. He is Lord of all. And so I
love the fact that the book doesn't run away from
that question. And some of these questions are are really
tough questions. And I think that this is where moms
and dads have to invite their kids to not only
ask these questions, champ, but even broach them themselves. And
(23:22):
I think there is some fear. And we got about
a minute left. But what would you say to the
parent who's afraid to bring up some of these questions?
What if I plant this seed in my child's mind
and they weren't even thinking about it?
S2 (23:35):
Yeah. I mean, I know that kind of fear, right? And,
I mean, we're afraid as parents of all sorts of
things for our kids, whether it's physical harm or spiritual harm.
And one time I was just gripped with this kind
of fear for one of my kids, and it was irrational.
I knew it was irrational, but I mean, what can
you do when you're feeling this? And I well, I
called a friend and I said, I'm really struggling. What
(23:57):
do I do? And I'll never forget what he said
to me, Chris. He said, champ, God loves your son
more than you do. And that's what I needed to
hear at that moment. It's like, it's okay. He, the
Lord has him and you don't need to be afraid.
And so I I'm reminded of that, that that is
something that I need to remind myself of regularly.
S1 (24:18):
Well, the gospel, you define it in the book as
good news or amazing. An amazing announcement of the salvation
of God through Jesus Christ. I like to think of
the gospel as breaking news that interrupts an otherwise busy
and distracted life. And some people in our lives right now,
(24:40):
they need that type of breaking news. We interrupt your
regularly scheduled programming for breaking news that Jesus is Lord,
that we don't have to give in to the brokenness
and the despair of this world, that Christ has come
to rescue us from our sins. And if we turn
(25:02):
to him, we can experience salvation and new life in Christ.
I want you to experience that new life in Christ.
We would love to wrap our arms around you as
you take your next step in your journey with Jesus.
And so if that's you, don't hesitate. Give us a
call today. Dial this number 877548 3675. We'd love to
(25:27):
pray with you. Listen, today can be the day of salvation.
Maybe these are questions that you have processed through and
you say, I'm so glad you're talking about this. You
can get a copy of champ's resource Ten questions about
salvation by going to our website. Go to equip radio.org.
(25:49):
That's equip radio Dot. You can find out more. Also
remember social media is available to you 24 hours a day,
seven days a week. Find us on Twitter and Facebook.
Go to Equip Radio. We'll talk to you soon. Chris
(26:16):
Brooks here reminding you that today's program is pre-recorded and
we won't be taking your calls. Welcome back friends. Having
a fascinating conversation with Champ Thornton from Crossway Resources. He
oversees and directs children and family resources there with our
(26:38):
friends at Crossway. His newest book, ten Questions about salvation.
This is 30 devotions for kids, teens, and families. I'm
so grateful that champ has put together this resource. All right, champ.
Do you want to know? I want to I want
to know if you can guess this. What my favorite
(26:59):
page of your book was.
S2 (27:03):
I the last page? No, I don't know.
S1 (27:06):
Nope, nope. It was the dedication page. I love that
you dedicated your book to Robin. You say for Robin,
my best friend, beloved wife and partner in the gospel
of Christ. Talk about the role she's played on your
in your faith journey. And, uh, even in passing down
(27:29):
your faith to your children.
S2 (27:32):
Oh, wow. Where to begin? Uh, she is my life
and ministry partner. More than words can even describe. Scribe. And, uh,
she's just so full of wisdom and love. And I
see the way that, you know, she's so good at conversation.
And with my kids, sometimes I'm in the car, I'm
(27:53):
driving them home, and I'm like, how was your day?
And I hear, you know, fine. And I was like,
what did you do? And stuff, you know? And I
want to I want to get like, you know, better
conversation going. And I see my wife, she just navigates
conversations with our kids so well and, and, uh, I'm
just so thankful for her and the way that she
(28:15):
she draws our kids out. She's so good with conversation,
pointing them to Jesus and with just common sense and
biblical wisdom. So it's.
S3 (28:23):
That's awesome.
S2 (28:24):
Yeah, it's a blessing.
S1 (28:25):
Well, and this is, uh, this gives me the opportunity
to just kind of talk about, uh, God's plan for
the family. Right? Uh, praise God, uh, for, uh, husbands
and wives who are in covenant with one another, but
also in covenant with God. I do think that it
is a team effort when it comes to passing our
(28:47):
faith to our children. It certainly should be, uh, us
partnering with the Lord as his grace is at work
in and through us. And so if you are a
believer in Jesus and you're married to a Christian spouse,
I would encourage you to sit down and have a
(29:08):
conversation and be intentional about man. How can we together
work together to share the gospel with our kids and
to not only share the gospel, but more importantly, to
live it, uh, before them, as they as they watch us, uh,
kind of stumble at times, fall, get back up again, repent,
dust ourselves off, find ourselves at the foot of the
(29:30):
cross begging for grace one more time. You know all
of that is a part of the journey, and I'm
grateful that you and Robin get to take it together.
But what do you say to those parents who feel
ill equipped for all of this? They're listening and they say, man, uh,
maybe my family structure isn't like yours. Champ may not
(29:51):
even live in the same home as my kids. Maybe
have an estranged relationship. Maybe I've blown it even in
the past and wish I would have did better. But
I've made mistakes. What do you say to that?
S2 (30:06):
Oh, Jesus is enough. I want to start there. Uh,
and because when we think about our parenting, I mean,
who of us would say, oh, we've got this figured out?
I mean, we think we're there to help our children
become more like Jesus. I think he gives us children
so that we can become more like Jesus. You know,
if we think it's about helping our kids and it's
(30:28):
like Jesus is changing us because.
S3 (30:30):
The big.
S1 (30:30):
Setup, right?
S3 (30:31):
It was all a big set up.
S2 (30:34):
Exactly. And, you know, the reality is, is it's not
a matter of, okay, how can I teach my kids?
The reality is, is we're always teaching our kids. The
real question is, what are we teaching our kids? And
so on. My on my good days, I'm teaching them.
On my bad days I'm teaching them. Everything is a
teaching opportunity and everything is a teaching moment. And so
(30:57):
let's just say that I've not I've realized that I've
really not succeeded well as a parent in this particular scenario,
for whatever reason. You know, the Bible has a category
for that. What do we do, Chris, when we realize
we've fallen short of what God expects? It's always the same.
All through the Bible, we repent. We say, oh God,
(31:19):
I was wrong. Please forgive me. Yeah, right. And where
it's affected other people, we make that right with them, too.
We acknowledge it, we confess to them. And so, I mean,
how many times have I I'm thinking like, especially on
trips which are like highly stressful times for me where
like long car trips that my kids kind of, they know, like, okay,
dad's going to be, you know, stressed out today that
how many times have I said to my kids, hey, I,
(31:41):
I was short with you back there when we were
at the, at the rest stop. Um, and you were
about to run into traffic or whatever the.
S3 (31:48):
Scenario, right?
S2 (31:50):
And, uh, you know, I was short with you. Would
you forgive me? I was wrong. What? I spoke out
of a sinful perspective and not a kind and loving perspective.
Would you forgive me? So whatever the moment is, even
if it feels like, oh, that's our worst parenting moment ever. Well,
because of Jesus and his grace, which is always there
for his people, that we can say I, we can
(32:12):
ask them to forgive us too, and we can become
another kind of teaching moment.
S1 (32:16):
Well, you know, it's really important for us to remember
grace is, uh, not just needed for salvation. It's needed
for every day of our lives as well. And so
if you tuned in for the class on perfect parenting,
that's down the hall, all you got in this class
is me and champ talking about the desperate need for
(32:38):
God's grace that we all have. And so if you're
in an imperfect parent, then join the club. But just
thank God for his absolutely perfect grace. Now, champ, you
didn't back away from any of the tough questions in
this book, so I want to toss out another one
for you to give maybe a brief response to. And
(32:58):
that is why doesn't God just save everyone?
S2 (33:04):
Wow. So it's a great question. And I think when
we come to really hard topics in the Bible, there
are often two ways to think about it. So, uh,
when we think about, like, driving a car, how does
you know, how did you get in the car? How
did you operate the car to get here today? Right.
So how did that work? You answer those kind of
(33:24):
questions in one of two ways. You can either talk
about kind of the the experience of a user, a driver,
you know, you got a key in your hand and
you get in the car and you shut the door,
and you, there's pedals and buttons and you know, that's
how the car works, right? How does the car work?
How do you drive where you get in the driver's seat?
But if I said, how does the car work? Another
way to answer that is to is of an expert,
(33:45):
a designer, a creator, a mechanic, as it were. And
you pop the hood and there's a carburetor and all
sorts of things that I don't understand going on under
the hood. And the Bible tends to have those kind
of two ways of thinking about really hard topics. So
in some ways someone might say, why doesn't God save
everyone and there's a pop the hood kind of complexity
(34:06):
that I wouldn't begin to be able to explain. And yet,
I think the Bible talks kind of in a user
format behind the steering wheel, the way we actually experience it.
In some ways that are a little easier to grasp.
So briefly, why doesn't God save everyone? Well, if we're
restricting our answer just to kind of behind the steering wheel,
I would say the Bible offers salvation to all and
(34:31):
that the the people who are not Christians are not
Christians because they don't want to be Christians and that
they they have they they are not wanting faith in Jesus.
And we go to the we see this all throughout
the Bible. Like, you know, God says he gives people
over to their own desires. They this is what they want.
(34:54):
They didn't want God. And you go, well, isn't there
more to the the question, the more to the answer
to that question. Yes. But it's it's very complex and
it's definitely kind of an under the hood kind of conversation.
S3 (35:06):
That's right. Yeah.
S1 (35:07):
Well, you know, and the other thing that I think
is important is for us to consider the alternatives, right.
So the alternative is, hey, he can force everyone to
love him, but love that's forced. Is that really love?
Is that is that really choosing Christ for salvation? If
(35:29):
everyone was coerced into salvation. And I think it's important
for us to understand that God actually gives us a
real opportunity to put our faith and our trust in him. Now,
how all of that works together, the wonderful mixing bowl
of God's sovereignty and human responsibility. It'll take us a
(35:51):
few millennia, champ, to talk that through. But what I
do know is that God gives you and I the
opportunity to choose him. And I pray that for some,
today would be the day. Now, if you're looking for
a missionary or an evangelist or a pastor to come
and share the gospel with your children, I got good
(36:14):
news for you. That's your job. You are the missionary
that God chose to carry the gospel to your kids.
And even better news. You can do it. And one
of the ways that champ wants to help you do
it is just to get this resource into your hands.
These devotionals, 30 in total, will help you to talk
(36:36):
to your kids about the best news of all. Once
you go to our website, equip radio.org. We'll be right back.
Do you have questions about your sexuality that no one
seems to address? Whether it's sexual sin, gender confusion, or
issues in your marriage, Surrender Sexuality by Doctor Julie Slattery
(36:58):
has insights you need. She'll help you to see that
God wants to be invited into your questions and struggles.
And when you do, everything changes. Request your copy with
your gift of any amount. To equip, simply call 888644
4144 or visit Equip Radio Org. Welcome back to equip
(37:24):
with Chris Brooks. Time flies when you're having a great conversation.
Such is the case today. Champ Thornton is my guest.
We're talking about his newest book, Ten Questions About Salvation,
and I am loving it as a parent, as a pastor,
as someone who really wants to see your kids come
to Christ. One of my greatest prayers is for the
(37:47):
Lord to send revival to our children and grandchildren. And oh,
by the way, this is a great resource for grandparents
as well. You know champ, I am super blessed. My mom,
Pat Brooks big shout out to my mom. She has
nightly devotions with her grandkids, nightly devotions with her grandkids,
(38:07):
and my brother's kids live out of state and they
do it kind of using technology FaceTime, zoom, whatever it takes.
And praise God for grandparents as well. This book is
really written with everybody in mind. Talk a little bit
about what your hope is on how this book will
be used.
S2 (38:27):
When I wrote it, I was really envisioning, Chris, that, uh,
you know, an eight year old or a 12 year
old would sit down and use this for a number
of weeks in their personal time with the Lord each
day or most every day. But what I'm hearing, as
the book is now kind of out there and being used,
is that families are using this in their Bible time together,
whether it's at breakfast or at dinner or after dinner.
(38:49):
And I love that. So I feel like it's really
one of those kind of books that you could use
in either location, whatever serves your family best. Yeah.
S3 (38:57):
Can I ask what your.
S2 (38:58):
What your mom's doing with the grandkids?
S3 (39:00):
That is absolutely.
S2 (39:02):
Wonderful. And they're never going to forget that.
S1 (39:05):
I hit the mom lottery. I'll be honest with you.
I got hooked up in that area. Let me just
throw out another way. I think this is a great
resource for is the local church. I am a pastor
who loves pastors, and I know every pastor is thinking
through ministry to the whole family. Uh, church is the
(39:25):
primary place where discipleship happens, the local church. And so
if you're a pastor looking for a resource for kids ministry,
I think this is a great resource. We have to
use resources like this to lay the foundation, the building
blocks for a life long faith in Jesus. Let me
(39:47):
ask also, champ, for those who, uh, pick up the
book or the resource. Do you have to do it
in ten straight sessions, or do you get a little
bit of flexibility in how you navigate it?
S2 (40:01):
I think there's some flexibility built in. So each of
the questions, they could stand alone, you could go to
the ninth question first and then move to the second
or the third. It doesn't really matter. The sequence, of course,
as you mentioned earlier, uh, each question, the the answer,
the discussion about that particular question unfolds over the course
of three daily devotions. So while you're in, you know
(40:22):
that particular question. It's probably good to stay within that rhythm,
but then you can skip to a different question that
has that's of more interest to you at that time.
S1 (40:30):
Let's ask one more question. As we get ready to close.
Why don't my struggles go away after I come to Christ?
I mean, hey, uh, maybe it was explained that way.
Maybe somebody said, you give your life to Jesus, you'll
lose £50. Your hair. Grow back. Whatever the case may be,
you know, uh. But why don't my struggles go away?
S2 (40:51):
Yeah. So when we become Christians, God makes us his own. And,
you know, the Bible calls us saints. Uh, that means
we're holy. We belong to him. Uh, and but at
the same time, look, you know, our life, we live
in a broken world. We're not in heaven yet. And
so while we're in this broken world, we're going to
be sufferers. And not only that, suffering could be from
(41:14):
other people or situations or health or relationally. But then also,
like we're involved in some of the problem too, that
we're not only saints and sufferers, but were also sinners.
We we mess up too. And so we're broken. And
we live in a broken world for now. And so, yes,
life is messed up. It's a bit of a swirl.
(41:35):
It's all kind of swirled together. And the Bible is
just so honest about this. Chris, I love that when
you go to the Psalms, for example, Psalm 25, David
confesses his sin that he's messed up. He confesses the
fact that life is hard for him, and he confesses
the fact that he belongs to God. I mean, all
these things are true and all at the same time.
And so we just need to have a very biblical
(41:58):
and level headed and just clear eyed view of who
we are in this world. And just because we belong
to Jesus doesn't mean that he protects us from everything.
But we know that he walks with us through everything.
S1 (42:10):
All right, some moms, some dad is listening to us
right now. Who says my child has yet to profess
faith in Jesus? What do you tell them? They need
to do next? What should they do today?
S2 (42:26):
Yeah. So what I would encourage moms and dads to
do is to think about the fact that when you
become a Christian, yes, you're putting you're returning from your sin.
That's repentance. And you're turning to Jesus Christ for his mercy,
his grace, his forgiveness. That's faith. We're turning away from sin.
We're turning to Jesus. We we're repenting. We're believing. Yes,
(42:47):
but that doesn't just happen at the moment of conversion,
when we become a Christian that marks every day of
our Christian life. Multiple times throughout the day, we're turning
from sin. We're turning to Jesus. It's. It's what our lives.
It's the warp and woof of our lives. It's a
regular daily pattern for Christians. And so, yes, there is
(43:10):
a first time when someone actually became a Christian, right?
It's an event. It's it happens. It doesn't just you
don't just drift into being a Christian. But I don't
always know when I became a Christian. If you've got
a three year old and you know they throw a
toy at one of their brother or sister. Okay. Lead
them into let's repent of our sin. Let's tell Jesus
(43:31):
we're sorry and ask him to forgive us. Well, does
that mean that they instantly became a Christian? I don't know. Maybe.
Maybe not. That we don't. We're not called to figure
out exactly when that happened. But we want them to
be in a pattern of always repenting and trusting Jesus
with the view that, God willing, one of these days,
they will. It will be that moment, and they will
(43:54):
go from darkness to light. It's not a special event
that we kind of have to save our ammunition and
then boom, one day, now it happens. This ought to
be what we're encouraging our children to do when they
sin all the time.
S1 (44:06):
Two things that I really want mom and dads to remember,
number one, that our kids oftentimes are one invitation away
from making Jesus their Lord. Um. let's make sure we're
making the invitation. Not just living the Christian life in
front of them, but making an invitation to follow Jesus,
(44:30):
to make Jesus the center of your life, to really
surrender your heart to him. So make that invitation. I
will tell you this, uh, as a pastor, as much
as I love champ, when men and women come forward
at church or after a message, seek me out and say, man,
I believe I want to surrender my life to Jesus.
(44:52):
I love even more salvation stories that happened in living rooms,
at kitchen tables, in dining rooms. In other words, I
pray that our homes would be the central place, the
headquarters for God's next great revival. I really do pray that, um,
(45:13):
the second thing that I want people to remember is
you're not in it alone. That's exactly why we brought
champ on. So that we can talk to you about
not only this resource, but champ. There's a ton of
resources that you guys have put out that really are
designed to help moms and dads as they navigate through
(45:35):
this really, really important season of faith, journey and life
for their kids. That 8 to 14. It's not that
they can't be one after that, but that is really
a great window, isn't it?
S2 (45:50):
Absolutely. I mean, God made kids to be receptive, to
listen to mom and dad. I mean, largely right. We're
shaping their lives.
S3 (45:57):
And so we.
S2 (45:57):
Need to take advantage of that opportunity and window that
God has given us as parents.
S1 (46:01):
Hey, as a dad who has an 18 year old,
almost 19 and a five year old, I would just
tell you, it is so awesome being the coolest man
in the world, and I'm the coolest man in the
world from about 8 to 14 by 8 to 14.
Dad is the coolest guy in the room now. By
(46:22):
the time they get to 15, they start realizing, uh,
maybe dad isn't as cool as I thought he was.
Can you drop me off around the corner and I'll
just walk to the front door? But but enjoy it and, uh,
lean into it, champ. You're a huge blessing, brother. So
grateful for you and Robin. Lord bless the Thornton family.
(46:44):
We ask and bless many families as we share the gospel.
The good news, the amazing announcement of salvation through Christ. Amen.
Well friends, I hope you've been blessed. I can't wait
till we're together again next time. Until then, remember, equipped
with Chris Brooks is the production of Moody Radio, a
(47:05):
ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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