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March 20, 2025 22 mins

 If you're a millennial, chances are you've got boomer parents. Parenting with reward and punishment. Sticks and carrots. Extrinsic motivation. And this might lead to a career choice based on reward and punishment. A well paying "prestigious" job. Implied negative consequences if you didn't go to college. Safe professions. And the result? A draining job where work is exhausting. Days drag on forever. And by Friday, you're counting the minutes till the weekend. What if you could achieve the opposite? An energising job, where you look forward to going to work, and don't care if you're working on Friday night, let alone the weekend. In this happiness episode, you're going to find out how.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shure MV7 (00:00):
If you're a millennial, chances are you've got boom appearance.
Parenting with reward and punishment.
Sticks and carrots.
extrinsic motivation.
And this might lead to a careerchoice based on reward and punishment.
A well paying, prestigious job.

(00:21):
Implied negative consequencesif you didn't go to college.
Safe professions.
And the result?
A draining job where work is exhausting.
Days drag on forever.
And by Friday, you're countingthe minutes till the weekend.
What if you could achieve the opposite?

(00:43):
An energising job, where you lookforward to going to work, and don't
care if you're working on Fridaynight, let alone the weekend.
In this happiness episode,you're going to find out.
You're a working professionalstuck in a 9 to 5 job.
You're ticking off tasks,hitting deadlines, and doing

(01:05):
everything that's expected.
But something feels off.
You're tired, overworked,maybe even a bit burnt out.
And the biggest motivation forgoing to work is the carrot.
The paycheck.
But what if you could find workwhere you're motivated by the

(01:27):
job itself, not the rewards?
It's called Intrinsic Motivation.
I'm career coach Dr.
Steve O'Earley.
I help other working professionalslike you take the next steps in
their career that works for them.
You're listening to Escape the 9 to 5.

(01:48):
Don't play this podcast at work.
And whatever you do, don't tell your boss.
Happy Friday.
Edward Deci and Richard Ryan are twopioneering psychologists who met in 1977.
And their relationship would transformhow we think about motivation.

(02:09):
This was a time when the common beliefaround motivation, whether in schools,
workplaces, or even parenting, was simple.
If you want someone to workharder, give them a reward.
If they don't perform, Punish them.
This is known as thestick and carrot approach.

(02:29):
It made sense on the surface people workedfor rewards, like money, promotions,
or praise and avoided punishments,like pay cuts, or disapproval But
then something strange happened.
Their work, over the next 20 years,completely changed perspectives

(02:52):
about why we do hard things.
Detchy was running an experiment atthe University of Rochester where
he asked participants to solve aseries of puzzles, just for fun.
No rewards.
No pressure, just thejoy of solving something.
What happened?

(03:13):
The participants dove in.
In the first round of the experiment,they got completely absorbed in the
puzzles, often staying longer thanrequired just to keep playing around.
In the next round, Dechiintroduced a reward.
Money.
Participants were now paidfor solving the puzzles.

(03:34):
As expected, they worked harder.
But here's where itgets really interesting.
When Detchie removed thereward in the final round,
something surprising happened.
Participants lost interest.
They didn't stay late.
They didn't play around withthe puzzles for fun anymore.

(03:57):
The external reward had killedtheir internal motivation.
This became one of the first studiesto challenge the idea that people are
motivated purely by external incentives.
Richard Ryan, Took this ideaand developed what we now know

(04:17):
as self-determination theory.
the idea that true motivation doesn'tcome from rewards or punishments, but
from within as early as 1980, Dey and Ryandemonstrated that intrinsic motivation
can be enhanced by a handful of forces.

(04:39):
They discovered that for people tofeel truly motivated and fulfilled
in their jobs, they need to satisfythree core psychological needs.
Autonomy The feeling of havingcontrol over what you do.
Competence The satisfaction ofgetting better at something.
Relatedness.

(05:01):
The sense of connection with others.
Number one.
Autonomy.
When people have power over their ownchoices, they are much more likely to
feel intrinsically motivated to do them.
This is why money decreases motivation.
You don't feel like you trulyown the task, but are undertaking

(05:21):
it for external reward.
Your sense of control declines.
And so does your sense of motivation.
Autonomy will probablyring true in your life.
It's why you hate being micromanagedby your boss or your parents.
Our need for control is why we loveto decorate our bedrooms as kids.

(05:42):
And design our own homes as adults andwhen control over our lives is taken
away, if we end up in prison or shackledto jobs we don't enjoy and other prison,
it can have disastrous consequencesfor our physical and mental health.
The trouble is that taking controlisn't always straightforward.

(06:05):
Entrepreneurs have autonomy overthe direction of their businesses.
Digital nomads are freeto trot around the globe.
Working from any cafe they come across.
Others don't and can't.
A hotel receptionist has to standin the lobby and welcome guests.

(06:26):
He or she can't choose to work from home.
a physio, dentist, vet or doctor has tosee all the patients in the waiting room.
They can't just decide toonly see patients they like.
the concept of autonomy sopowerful is that you can integrate
it into almost any situation.

(06:48):
All too often, we find ourselvesin jobs we don't like, and
start feeling fatalistic.
I'm stuck in this job, butthere's nothing else I could do.
I've got bills to payand a family to support.
Sometimes, we're right.
But often, we have moreagency than we realise.
If not over the whole situation,then over parts of it.

(07:12):
We have control evenwhen we don't know it.
Do you want a great example?
In 2016, a guy on Reddit madeheadlines for getting fired.
We'll refer to him by his Redditaccount name, FilletOfFish He'd been
working as a software developer athis company for six years, software

(07:36):
in the quality assurance department.
It was extremely boring.
All he did was run the same old testson the same old software, following the
same old scripts, every single time.
So Fillet of Fish came up with a plan.
Without telling his boss, he spent thefirst eight months of his employment

(08:00):
programming software to automate his job.
From then on, the programs he'd writtenworked on autopilot, running the quality
assurance tests without any problems.
His boss never checked on himbecause there were no issues.
As he wrote on Reddit after beingfired, From around 6 years ago up

(08:24):
until now, I have done nothing at work.
I am not joking.
40 hours each week, I go to work, playLeague of Legends in my office, browse
Reddit, and do whatever I feel like.
In the past 6 years, I've maybedone 50 hours of real work.

(08:45):
So basically nothing.
And nobody really cared.
Unfortunately for Philidor Fish, over ahalf a decade into his ingenious plan,
someone at IT figured out what wasgoing on and reported it to his boss.
He was fired for having theaudacity to automate his job.

(09:05):
Look, I'm not suggesting this isa bulletproof career strategy.
Or even whether he wasdoing the right thing.
But this is a great example of someonetaking ownership of a shit situation
with an incredibly boring job.
When we can't take ownershipof the situation, we can still
take ownership of the process.

(09:26):
There's almost always a way for us to ownthe process of a task, even if the outcome
has been determined by someone else.
Maybe you've got 30 clients a day,and a third of them are assholes,
but you can choose to be a greatlistener and aim to put a smile on
their face, even if you choose tocrack the odd inappropriate joke.

(09:48):
Maybe you're a teacher that has no controlover the curriculum, but you can still
take ownership of how you teach thecurriculum, engage with students, and
make the experience fun for everyone.
Taking ownership of your work situationwill give you a feeling of autonomy, even
in the most seemingly shit situations.

(10:11):
Number two, competence.
one of the most powerful drivers ofintrinsic motivation, the kind that makes
work feel rewarding and energising, isthe psychological need for competence.
In self determination theory, Dechiand Ryan describe competence as our
fundamental desire to feel effectivein our interactions with the world.

(10:35):
We want to feel capable, masterful,and skilled at what we do.
When we experience competence,we're more engaged, more
motivated, and ultimately, happier.
We've been talking a lot inthe past couple of weeks about
working to your strengths.
Finding a job where we work toour strengths on a daily basis.

(10:57):
competence flourishes whenwe work to our strengths.
Some call it mastery.
Have Have you ever been workingon a task and thought, I'm
actually really good at this.
Maybe it was leading a team meeting,solving a complex problem, designing
something beautiful, Or evenjust organising a get together.

(11:18):
That surge of pride and satisfactionyou felt, that's competence kicking in.
When you experience competence,Your confidence grows.
You start believing in your abilitiesand take on more challenging tasks.
You enter a flow state, becomingfully immersed in the work, losing
track of time, and feeling energised.

(11:42):
You seek out moreopportunities to improve.
Success builds on success, and you findyourself wanting to get even better.
Research backs this up.
A 2002 study by Robert Valorand, publishedin the Journal of Psychology, found that
when people feel competent in a task,they were significantly more likely

(12:06):
to experience intrinsic motivation.
the study highlighted That competencewasn't just about being good at something,
it helped to motivate them even more.
found that students who employedstrengths based approaches to their
work reported higher levels ofcompetence and intrinsic motivation.

(12:30):
This underscores the value offocusing on your strengths.
Have you heard about the Goldilocks Zone?
For competence to drive motivation,the task needs to hit a sweet spot.
What psychologists callthe Goldilocks Zone.
If a task is too easy, we get bored.

(12:51):
If a task is too hard, wefeel frustrated or anxious.
but if it's just challenging enough,where success is possible, but
requires decent effort, we feelmost engaged and most motivated.
When you work to your strengths,you naturally place yourself
in this zone more often.

(13:13):
Your strengths give you a higherbaseline of competence, allowing you
to tackle challenges that stretchyou without overwhelming you.
This is often where flowstates, those moments of deep
focus and immersion, happen.
Number three.
Relatedness.
The sense of connection with others.

(13:37):
Relatedness refers to the inherent desireto feel connected to others, to love
and care, and to be loved and cared for.
This sense of belonging and connectionis crucial for fostering intrinsic
motivation and overall well being.
Research has consistentlydemonstrated that satisfying the

(13:57):
need for relatedness enhancesmotivation and psychological health.
When you experience meaningfulconnections with others, you are
more likely to engage in activitieswith genuine interest and commitment.
Think of times whereyou enjoyed work most.
It's likely you weresurrounded by awesome people.

(14:20):
The reverse is true too.
A lack of relatedness can lead to feelingsof isolation and decreased motivation.
This third concept is best illustratedby the now famous Harvard Study on adult
development, one of the most comprehensivelongitudinal studies in history.

(14:42):
initiated in 1938.
The study meticulously trackedthe lives of 724 Boston men over
their entire lifetime, aimingto uncover the determinants of
a fulfilling and healthy life.
One of the central findings fromthe study was the profound impact of

(15:02):
relationships on health and happiness.
The data indicated that people whocultivated strong, positive relationships
experienced enhanced mental health,enhanced physical health, as well
as increased life satisfaction.
Conversely, those who lacked meaningfulconnections were more susceptible to

(15:25):
health decline and diminished well being.
of the things that really drew me tothis study is that the positive impact of
relationships was more beneficial than thenegative effects of smoking or drinking.
Robert Waldinger, the current director ofthe study, emphasises the people who were

(15:46):
the most satisfied in their relationshipsat age 50 were the healthiest at age 80.
This underscores the importanceof relatedness in both
your work and your life.
The insights from this studysuggest something you can do today.
Prioritise relationships.

(16:07):
Invest time and effort into buildingand maintaining close connections,
inside and outside of work.
Engage in social activities.
Participate in group activitiesthat foster a sense of belonging.
It's why you shouldn't skip teambuilding or the Christmas do.
More than just beingaround people, be present.

(16:29):
Active listening and genuine engagementwith your colleagues will strengthen
your workplace relationships andyour sense of connection with others.
Autonomy.
Competence.
Relatedness.
When these needs are met, weexperience intrinsic motivation.

(16:50):
The kind of motivation that makesyou lose track of time because you're
so absorbed in what you're doing.
Think about the last time you werecompletely in the zone at work or doing
a hobby where the hours flew by andyou felt energized instead of drained.
That's intrinsic motivation in action.

(17:11):
What does this mean for your career?
In your current job, are motivators?
The paycheck?
The promotion?
The carrots?
Or are you motivated by something deeper?
The joy of the work itself?
if you're feeling stuck in yournine to five job, it's probably
because your job leans too heavilyon external rewards and doesn't

(17:35):
tap into your intrinsic motivation.
But there's good news.
You do not need to quit yourjob tomorrow to fix this.
You can tap into the thing we'vebeen talking about all week.
Strengths.
More specifically.
Finding tasks where you're workingto your strengths on a daily basis.

(17:58):
don't need to quit your current jobif it's not aligned to your strengths.
Instead.
Start small.
Find tasks that align with your strengths,because when you're good at something,
it feels easier to get into a flow state.
Look for ways to increase your autonomy.
Even small choices in how you structureyour day can make a big difference.

(18:23):
As mentioned earlier, even in themost dire work circumstances, you can
create a sense of ownership, and withthat, a sense of autonomy in your job.
Most importantly, connect withothers, because relatedness boosts
motivation in ways we often overlook.
even better, work alongside otherpeople with different strengths that

(18:47):
help you both do your jobs better.
When you start aligning your work to thesecore needs, something magical happens.
Work stops feeling like a grind,and starts feeling like play.
The kind that energisesyou, rather than drains you.
That's the power of intrinsic motivation.

(19:08):
It's not just academic research.
It's a roadmap to creating a careerthat actually makes you happy.
Deci and Ryan's research showsthat intrinsic motivation leads to
greater creativity, better problemsolving, higher levels of engagement,
and importantly for today'sepisode, greater happiness at work.

(19:33):
So how does this all connectto working to your strengths?
When your job aligns with your naturalstrengths, you're more likely to
experience the three psychologicalneeds Deci and Ryan highlight.
Autonomy.
You feel a sense of controlwhen you can choose how to
utilise your strengths at work.

(19:53):
Competence.
Using your strengthsallows you to feel capable.
Autonomy.
You feel a sense of controlwhen you can choose how to
utilise your strengths at work.
Competence.
Using your strengths allows you tofeel capable, effective and skilled.

(20:13):
Fueling intrinsic motivation.
Relatedness!
When you excel in areas thatyou're great at, you're more
likely to connect meaningfully withothers who share those interests.
when you work to your strengths.
Your job stops feeling like a grindand starts feeling more like a craft.
Something that brings satisfactionin the process, not just the result.

(20:38):
It's the reason why you might feelin the zone when working on tasks
that align with your natural talents.
It's a flow state drivenby intrinsic motivation.
Remember your boom appearance?
You should get a solid job.
You need a job that givesyou financial stability.

(20:59):
People who go to collegeare more successful.
Well, they're probably wrong, and theworld is changing so fast that none of
this advice is really relevant anymore.
If you want to unlock your potential,stop focusing on what your parents pushed
you towards, the sticks and carrotsand start leaning into work where you

(21:22):
can engage in intrinsic motivation.
A job where you get a sense ofautonomy, where you're working to your
strengths, alongside people you like.
In the process, you'llcreate a happier work life.
Thanks for listening to Escape the 9 to 5.
I'm career coach Dr SteveO'Reilly, your host, and thanks

(21:44):
for being part of our movement.
Have a good Friday.
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