August 26, 2025 • 77 mins
Did you know that almost every ancient culture has a story of a primordial serpent ? Come with me on a journey through time and we discuss the nuance and perception of serpents around the globe !
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Episode Transcript
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(00:36):
Hello and welcome to Esoterica and Nonsense, a podcast where we
discuss myths, legends, folk tales, fairy tales, supernatural
phenomenon and religions from around the world.
I am your host, Annabelle, and Iam reporting live what a wild
(00:57):
year that it's been and how disappointing it is that people
in Palestine are still being murdered.
I think it's horrible. We've said it on this podcast
before, but I think it it shouldbe said again.
(01:20):
No human being on this planet should be denied safety.
Freshwater, food, Love. I don't really care what the
excuse is. I am never going to support a
genocide. I really don't care.
(01:41):
I really don't care what the argument is.
Genocide is not cool with me. And that applies to every single
demographic of people, every single expression of a culture,
a personality trait, A sexuality, a skin color, a
religion. I really don't care.
(02:02):
No one should be genocided pointblank period.
And I am so sad. I am so disappointed to live at
a time where humans claim to be quote UN quote modern.
(02:24):
They claim to be educated, they claim to be advanced.
They claim to have some kind of understanding, advanced
understanding of how the world works and and technology and
bettering society. I cannot buy into this fantasy
while we are murdering each other for reasons that some
(02:46):
people seem to think are justified.
It's silly, it's childish, and it's unacceptable.
So I think that needed to be said and I will be happy to
repeat that as many times as we need to hear it.
Often times that we do well withrepetition.
(03:06):
We're monkeys after all. I'm having some ice cold Sandia
juice, some watermelon. It's so good.
I also want to mention that thisyear, I feel like a lot of
people have been dying outside of the context of war and
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genocide. Like a lot of people have just
been passing away in general, orat least people in my circles
within the last 12 months. I, I just so many people I know
and friends of friends and friends, family members, some of
my family members, so many people have passed away.
(03:52):
And I've been reflecting a lot on this because it is snake
year. It is the year of the snake, and
the year of the snake is really all about reflection.
And from what I understand, the snake sheds its skin and then
(04:13):
lays eggs. And so in the Chinese Zodiac,
this year really is about rebirth and eventually like
laying an egg, like creating a new version of oneself or of
reality perhaps. And so I do think that it's
really symbolic. So many people have been passing
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away because beyond beyond people passing away, I also
think there is just a giant rebirth happening both literally
and allegorically. And so I just really wanted to
take a second to pay respect andsend a blessing to every single
being, be it human, animal, extraterrestrial, any kind of
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being who has been reborn and passed into the other realms.
I would love to send you all a blessing.
And I would like to send a blessing to every conscious and
living thing. Love is the best thing that we
have, and sharing love with eachother is kind of the secret how
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this all works. So I love you, whoever is
listening to this. I love you.
And Speaking of snakes, we're going to talk about snakes
today, babe. We're going to talk all about
snakes. OK, well, let's be clear.
Snakes is a huge category and there's so much to talk about.
But specifically today I want totalk about serpents, primordial
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serpents, leviathans, creator spirits.
I've noticed that almost over the whole planet there are
creation myths that involve serpents, and I find them to be
very interesting. Why is that?
And, and as time has passed in our human civilization, our
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experience and opinion of the snake has changed greatly.
And I have some theories as to why.
So let's get into it, babe. Buckle up.
I bring you primordial serpents,Slytherin.
Except you're toast. JK, Sorry, you're toast.
(06:38):
We don't fuck with you, OK? Beneath the waters, coiled in
the shadows, there's always a serpent.
From Mesopotamia to the Bible, from Mesoamerica to the Far
East, serpents have been keepersof wisdom.
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Chaos burners. Oops.
Chaos bringers. Chaos burners work.
Bringers of chaos and sometimes gods themselves.
This is primordial serpents, leviathans, etcetera.
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Let's get into it. So let's first talk about one of
the OG stories, one of the OG serpent myths.
This is Tiamat. Tiamat is a Mesopotamian
primordial chaos dragon slash serpent.
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She was a saltwater queen. She was always depicted as
female, depicted as anthropomorphic, but almost
always she was depicted with breasts and a tail, a love.
She is known to birth the first generations of deities after
mingling with her consort Abzu. An Abzu is a deity of the
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groundwater. So these are two water spirits
birthing other deities and theiroffspring who are these deities
were known to be incredibly loudand noisy, which very much
pissed off their parents. Now this is kind of reminding me
of the Titans in Greek mythology, am I right?
(08:27):
Yes, of course I am. Also, what's kind of crazy is
that some of their grandchildren, some of Tia
Mott's grandchildren, are considered to be Anu and Ki.
If you don't know, according to the Mesopotamian history, and I
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want to be very clear, when you research some of this, they will
sometimes refer to the Anunnaki as a part of the Mesopotamian
religion. However, in Mesopotamian
culture, they did not have a word for religion, so they
considered this to be their history and they had stories of
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beings who came down from the sky and essentially colonized
them, taught them language, taught them mathematics, gave
them technology, etcetera, etcetera.
These people they called the Anunnaki and they lived on a
giant planet which they called Nibiru that would rotate around
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it would orbit around our solar system, etcetera, etcetera.
And the head, the king of this this race of beings was known as
Anu. So according to this creation
myth, Tiamat, this primordial saltwater goddess, is the
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grandmother of Anu, fascinating and Key, who is the goddess of
Earth. And there you have Anu Naki.
OK, so according to this myth, the children of Absu and Tiamat
are very loud. They're very entitled.
Absu is driven mad by the noise.He can't take it.
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And in a violent rage, he gets himself killed.
And so of course, Tiamat is incredibly upset.
This is her Boo. This is her BAE.
She will not stand, so she wageswar on the demigods.
She takes on a new consort by the name of Kingu, and she
bestows upon him the tablet of destinies.
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And this is essentially a declaration of divine rulership.
This is also kind of giving the the divine covenant.
This is a thing in other cultures as well and in China
they have a similar story where the the dragon of the east
bestows upon the king the right to be the ruler.
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And according to their history, this tablet of destinies would
be passed on from king to king throughout the Mesopotamian
society. So eventually our girl Tiamat is
slain by Marduk. Marduk is in the Anunnaki
pantheon and he is the son of Anki which OK let's see.
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Anki is one of the sons of Anu. He is considered to be a bastard
son. He is associated with the sign
Capricorn. This goat mermaid situation is
the symbol of Anki. He's also Poseidon and he was
banished to the ocean by his brother and Lil who was the
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legitimate son of Anu. Is this too much info?
Maybe it's too much info, but ifEnki is the son of Anu and Anu
is the grandson of Tiamat, this would make Marduk the great
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great grandson of Tiamat. So he slays Tiamat and according
to their history, the body of Tiamat became the heavens and
the earth. How beautiful is that?
So according to their history, the earth and the heavens are
made out of the body of this giant primordial female serpent
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with large breasts. Love her.
I also think this is interestingbecause there's a lot of
crossovers with biblical moments, and we're going to
touch on that in just a second. What I also find fascinating is
in Mesopotamian culture snakes were believed to be immortal
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because they could infinitely shed their skin and be reborn,
so they believed that snakes were immortal beings.
Also in the Sumerian culture they worshipped A deity known as
Ningishida, the God of vegetation and the underworld
war and snakes. It is believed that Ningishida
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believed to spend part of the year on the land and part of the
year in the land of the dead. Also, before the arrival of the
Israelites, snake cults were incredibly popular and widely
established in the Canaanite cultures during the Bronze Age.
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Think about that. There are snake cults all around
the ancient world. Let that sink in babe.
Snake cults in ancient cities inSyria all the way to Babylon.
So we're this is a huge, huge area from ancient Syria all the
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way to Babylon, which is modern day Baghdad.
Archaeologists have found a bronze statues of gods holding
bronze snakes and of singular bronze snakes flanked over
doorways of temples. Get out of here.
So it's pretty obvious that snakes are a big deal in the
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ancient world. Obviously.
And sadly a lot of nuance and details from Mesopotamian and
Sumerian culture are lost on us because so much time has passed,
and arguably because throughout colonization people destroy so
many relics due to bigotry. But I do want to talk about the
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crossovers of Tiamat to the Leviathan, which is mentioned in
the Bible. What I do also want to mention
is that the Bible obviously are these ancient stories, but a lot
of these elements and themes in the Bible weren't created out of
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thin air. Even the stories of let's say
Moses or Abraham or even Jesus, sure, those may have been
contemporary stories, but a lot of cultural contexts and, and
possibly even older stories in the Bible could have already
been thousands of years old or culturally had been marinating
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for thousands of years, right? And I just like, really want
that to sink in because I think it's really hard for us as
humans in the present day to contextualize and understand how
beliefs can shift very quickly and how an image or a concept
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for perhaps for thousands of years could have meant something
incredibly sacred and holy, and then over the course of a couple
decades could be demonized. And I just really want you to
like think about that as we're learning about these serpents
because in my opinion, it's veryclear that in the ancient world,
serpents were considered magicaland special.
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And I feel like because of possibly mostly the Christian
Church, serpents started becoming demonized.
And there's just like a lot of, there's a lot of layers to go
through. So let's get into it.
OK. So in the Hebrew tradition and
biblical traditions, they talk of a Leviathan.
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The leviathan is a monstrous seaserpent mentioned in the book of
Job, the book of Psalms, and thebook of Isaiah.
She is known as a chaos monster who's eventually subdued by
Yahweh. It is thought that the world
comes oh it it my bad. It is thought that the word
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Leviathan derives from the term in Hebrew, which means wreathed
and twisted and folds, which is like describing the physicality
of the creature. Interestingly, the Leviathan is
almost always described as a female, but there are some
versions and translations of theBible that talk about there
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being a male and female, and themale was eventually killed.
So usually when people say leviathan, they're talking about
a she serpent monster. She is described usually as some
kind of serpent dragon who livesdeep in the ocean.
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Her partner is often called a behemoth.
This is like the most common translation and the behemoth is
not a leviathan, it's a different species.
The behemoth basically translatetranslates into great beast and
a lot of a lot of historians believe that the word behemoth
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could derive from ancient Egyptian words that referred to
water, ox, or in some context hippos.
So the behemoth is like this male giant formidable creature,
right? Interestingly, the Leviathan was
often described to possess illuminating power, specifically
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in her eyes, and she would be known to be able to create light
and heat. Oh, isn't that fascinating?
According to most scriptures, God decided that Leviathans
would overpopulate the earth, which is why he's ended up
slaying the female Leviathan. And we'll save her flesh and
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serve her as a feast for the righteous on the advent of the
Messiah. What?
Let's take a break. Hello, traveller.
Have you forgotten that you are an incredible, one-of-a-kind
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Pepper? There is no one on planet Earth
like you. Do you know how incredible that
is? Never forget it.
It might take time, it might take practice, but whatever your
dreams are, you can attain them.Yes, you can.
And you know that it's true. I believe in you.
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I'm so proud of you. One step at a time, and you're
going to make it. And we're back, darling.
I think it's very I like want totake a second and dissect this
sentiment that according to the Bible, the righteous would eat
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the flesh of the Leviathan. Because in my opinion, I do
think that a lot of ancient and religious slash spiritual text
is deeply coated with poetic allegory.
So perhaps the snake, this primordial energy, this
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primordial force would be accessible to the righteous, and
perhaps it is a symbol of not only connecting with Earth, but
connecting with enlightenment, with the most ancient, feminine,
formidable force there is. Now, I also like there's even
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more to discuss, so let's talk about it because this shit is
pretty crazy. Specifically, in one of the
Talmuds, they describe the skin of the Leviathan being used to
cover a tent where the banquet of the righteous would take
place. So at this banquet of the
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righteous during the advent of the Messiah quote, you would not
only be feasting on the flesh ofthis giant serpent, but you will
also be shaded by its skin. Lovely.
The remaining skin would be usedto cover the walls of Jerusalem,
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thereby illuminating the world with its brightness.
How interesting is that though? I'm not hearing anything about
this that is condemning the beast, right?
Like, I get that people, humans are intimidated by its power,
and perhaps even Yahweh is intimidated by the power of the
Leviathan, but if you're going to eat it and be shaded by it
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and then use its skin to illuminate your holy city,
don't. Then we would love the
Leviathan, right? I think we love her.
I rest my case. Interesting.
Another interesting fun fact that in the Zohar which is some
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of the foundational writings of the Kabbalah which is the book
of Jewish mysticism which reallyderives from Egyptian mysticism
that Moses shared with the Israelites.
The Zohar refers to the Leviathan as a metaphor for
enlightenment. They consider the image of the
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righteous eating the flesh of the Leviathan at this banquet
was considered to be a metaphor for absorbing the light of the
soul and achieving enlightenment.
Some Jewish rabbis and scholars have likened the Leviathan to
the Uroboros and describe it having no mate and having its
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tail placed in its mouth, twisting around and encompassing
the entire world. I find this also very
interesting. We're going to get to that in a
second, but a lot of cultures have a similar image of an aura
Boris, a serpent or snake eatingits own tail, encompassing the
world. I do find this really
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fascinating. It's a symbol of life and death,
rebirth, regeneration. But I also think it's so
fascinating that growing up, I wasn't religious, but when I
would hear the term Leviathan, Ifeel like it was often
associated with like, primordialevil or like darkness.
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And there's really no evidence to support that.
And I would argue that a lot of that comes from the
interpretation of the snake fromGenesis, which I also think is a
misinterpretation. And I will get to that theory,
so bear with me. The serpent in Eden who is not
considered to be a leviathan. This is like a regular serpent,
right? Often is interpreted as a symbol
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of temptation, wisdom, rebellion.
And of course by many Christiansthe serpent is associated with
the devil. Because of this Christian idea
of serpents being the devil, a lot of Christian interpretations
taint most serpents to be symbols of endangering God's
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power and being agents of chaos.Interestingly, in the Old
Testament there are never into into There are never anything
that identifies the Leviathan with the devil.
But in the New Testament it is explicitly described as a 7
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headed dragon and an inaction ofthe devil.
See, I need to have a some of myJews.
I think this is so crucial. This is something maybe I should
do a deep dive one day, like comparing Christian
interpretations of the Old Testament because where does
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this come from? Like where do all these
demonizations come from? And I have a theory.
Really my theory is as we know, if you haven't listened to my
episode #2 which is about CopticChristianity, highly recommend.
But essentially Christianity really caught on after Jesus
died. And in the 1st 1000 years from
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basically year 0 up to the year 1000, so many people were
converting to Christianity. So many.
And at this point in time in general, most religions were
oral traditions. And so within the ancient world
people started having their own versions of the Bible.
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Some of the oldest Bibles known to man were have been found in
Greece, Ethiopia and Egypt. Also though, honorable mention
to Armenia, which was the first country to make Christianity
their official religion, and Turkey, of course, modern day
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Turkey was one of the first cities to host a worldwide
debate about Christianity. Now, I'm going to be staying on
topic here, but essentially around the year 700, don't quote
me on that, the Roman Empire realized that their empire was
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so big and they really didn't have the respect of most of
their subjects because most of their subjects were foreigners
from these faraway lands who hadno respect for Rome because Rome
were horrible colonizers. So they recognized that even
while being colonized, people were still so proudly paying
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tribute to Christianity. They even noticed that for a
while in Egypt, the local Egyptians were practicing
Christianity while they still had to pay a tax to the Arab
caliphate for being Christian. And they were dealing with all
kinds of prejudice by being Christian, and they still chose
to do it proudly. And so of course Rome recognized
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this opportunity. At this point in the Christian
world, one of the highest ranking priest was known as the
Sea of Alexandria. He was a priest of the city of
Alexandria that many Christians would refer to for guidance and
or interpreting the Bible. Rome decided to appoint a Sea of
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Rome, and the Sea of Rome is nowcalled the Pope, and now the
Pope is considered to be the highest ranking clergymen of the
whole Christian world, blah blahblah.
So with this idea of using a religion to colonize people,
using a religion to colonize their beliefs, to then colonize
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their country, their culture, their economy, everything, also
came this idea of demonizing allthings that predates
Christianity, which they called Pagan, right?
So I think, and I'm just, I wanted to say this now because
like I just, I feel like there'sso much darkness and judgment
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that is cast upon snakes that I in my opinion comes from Rome Co
opting and colonizing Christianity and demonizing all
things ancient also. And I one thing I want to bring
up which I find fascinating, that in the Gnostic tradition,
the Gnostic tradition is kind ofa branch of Christianity.
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And they call themselves Gnosticbecause the word gnosis, which
is a Greek word means knowledge.They have really interesting hot
takes on the Bible. And in the Gnostic tradition,
they see the Leviathan as an aura Boris that separates the
truest reality into the distorted and physical material
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world. And eventually, when one dies,
they must pass through the sevenlayers of heaven or they will be
consumed by the Leviathan. Oh, isn't that fascinating?
And get this, according to Gnosticism, the serpent in the
Garden of Eden is not referred to as Leviathan, but often
associated with the Leviathan. They describe the serpent in the
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Garden of Eden as a deceptive creature by promoting Eve to eat
the apple that God had forbidden.
But what I think is so fascinating is that according to
the Gnostic tradition, they see a distinction between the truest
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God and the demiurge. And essentially what this means
is that a demiurge is like a false God, maybe not quite a
false God, it's like a Demi God.And so, according to the
Gnostics, in the Bible, the God that is often referred to is
only the creator of the materialworld, whereas the real truest
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God cannot be named. And so the serpent actually is a
teacher, a symbol of wisdom, by telling Eve to eat the apple, by
telling Eve to eat from the apple of from the tree of
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knowledge. Interestingly too, in the Bible
they discuss that part of why God ends up banishing Adam and
Eve from the Garden of Eden is so that they didn't eat from the
tree of life and gain immortality.
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Yes I I do think this is really interesting.
Like especially when I read the Bible it feels very colonizer
coded. It feels very if there was a
God, if if, if the God from the Bible existed, which they claim
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is all loving, all accepting, all forgiving.
This idea of banishing and punishing like doesn't really
fit into me. And so I do kind of like this
Gnostic concept of there being this demigod that essentially is
like us. He has an ego.
He is a being with faults and islimited versus him being the
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like the truest creator of all things, right?
Interestingly, and non surprisingly, a lot of clergymen
in Christianity see the serpent as an allegory for sexual
desire. Also, I this is fascinating.
In the Hebrew language, the wordfor snake is often nachas.
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Nachas. I don't know if I'm pronouncing
that correctly. Nachas.
It is possible that this word nahas derives from a word
meaning luminous or shining one.This is also an interesting tie
in because in the story of Moses, Moses recognizes the call
of God to lead the Israelites out of slavery, and he
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anticipated that the Israelites would doubt his divine calling.
And so Moses asks God for a sign.
God tells him to cast his rod that he carried on to the
ground, and as he did that his rod turned into a snake.
Moses ran from the snake with the God, but God told him to
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take it by the tail, and as he did, his rod turned back into a
rod. The snake turned back into a
rod. Also later in the book of
Exodus, Moses, Moses staff and Aaron's staff turn into snakes
again. And in the book of Numbers Moses
is described in the wilderness. He mounts a serpent of bronze on
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a pole that functioned as a cureagainst the bite of the
seraphim, which was a venomous snake.
This is also just so fascinatingto me because none of these
connote an evil serpent. These all seem to be symbols of
being the Messiah. Am I right or am I right?
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And again, I do think that it's very telling that in the Hebrew
tradition and in the Gnostic tradition, there is no
indication that any kind of serpent is evil.
This does this does feel like the work of the Christian
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Church, demonizing all things quote Pagan.
You feel me? My one last little note is that
I mentioned that Gnosticism madea distinction between the real
creator of the universe and the Demiurge.
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But I also wanted to mention that according to the Gnostic
tradition, the serpent symbolizes A distinction between
the unknowable God, the builder of all reality, versus the
Demiurge who is the creator of our material world.
And they see the story of the serpent in Eden as a symbol for
the eternal conflict between good and evil and the conception
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of the serpent as the liberation, savior and bestow of
knowledge. Fascinatingly, in the book
Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda talks about his mentor
who is named Sri Yuk Daswar. And in one part of the book, Sri
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Yuk Daswar is talking about the Bible and he actually talks
about the Garden of Eden story. One thing that I really loved
about spending time in India andtalking to people in India was
this really like lovely and casual belief that Christianity
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is really just Hinduism. It's, it's really sweet.
I I loved in India, almost everyone I chatted to talked
about how every major religion was actually Hinduism and they
didn't know it. And that of course, every story
that you could think of from every single scripture is
actually just Hinduism that's misinterpreted.
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So anyway, Sukhdeswar talks about the Garden of Eden and
talks about it actually being a story from Hinduism that had
been changed through the centuries, kind of like a game
of telephone and completely misinterpreted.
And So what Sri Yukteswar said is that animals are always
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allies because they are a part of nature and they do not lie
According to him. So he was saying that anytime in
life or in a scripture, it, it doesn't matter what the
religion, if there is an animal,it is always an ally, always.
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And essentially the snake was anallegory for the kundalini
energy, which is this like primordial eternal energy that
lives in the base of our spine. That what enlightenment really
is is unlocking this, unlocking this energy on the base of your
spine and allowed it, allowing it to uncoil out of the top of
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your head. Having this energy, this
luminous light extend from the base of your spine up through
your spine and up out of the topof your head.
And this is their symbol of enlightenment.
And the snake is the symbol of said enlightenment.
And so according to Sriuk Teswar, this story of of Adam
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and Eve is an allegory for the woman, the intuitive, creative
part of humanity, listening to her own intuition, listening to
the snake at the base of her spine, her intuition telling her
to take a bite from the tree of knowledge.
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And by doing so allowing her soul with knowledge, with the
food of knowledge, her soul can expand.
And then of course, Adam, who was the logical masculine
version of humanity, follows her.
And in doing so, they reach fullenlightenment.
And then being banished from thegarden was actually being
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castaway from the garden of disillusion of Maya, which in in
the Hindu traditions, essentially the physical world
illusions. And I really, really love that
interpretation. And just for me personally, it
feels more accurate. I, I, that is something that I
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think I have the most fascination with.
I think that every single religious scripture is
fascinating and worth reading. But I think what puzzles me is
how the interpretations are so homogeneous.
And often, I often find that people's interpretations could
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stem back to medieval Europe. And if you are clinging to an
interpretation of any scripture that is from medieval Europe,
like maybe you need to rethink your life.
Because what were they doing right in medieval Europe?
Nothing. Like sorry babe, nothing.
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And with that, let's keep it pushing.
There's so much to cover. So Next up we have Egypt.
Egypt also has a story of a primordial serpent.
Surprise, surprise. Here we have Apophis, also
sometimes known as a pep. A PEP, a little pimper.
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We'll just go with Apophis because if, if I keep saying a
PEP, I will be way too distracted.
I'm not professional. I'm not that professional.
So Apophis is known as the giantserpent of Chaos, a deity of the
underworld. Embodies darkness and disorder
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described as being 16 yards long, which is about 16 meters
long with the head made of Flint, which is like that stone,
right, that you would use to make sparks.
One thing though, I do think is interesting that I do want to
say really quick is that like darkness and disorder I think we
(41:38):
associate with evil. But this is giving me Scorpio
vibes. Like sometimes the underworld
and darkness and chaos isn't necessarily evil.
You know what I'm saying? That's like what creation is.
Creation comes out of the world of nothingness, and then as it
materializes, it finds order. So I just see it as like a part
(42:00):
of the divine cycle of all reality, right?
That's just me. OK, so Apophis, this primordial
serpent, is known as the opponent of light and the
goddess Mahat, who is the goddess of order and truth, and
Apophis is the opponent of RA, the sun deity.
(42:21):
The story is that Apophis attacks Ra's solar chariot each
night, and so he's known to waitin the horizon of the far West
so that he can attack RA after sunset.
And they battle all night long. And that is why they sometimes
referred to Apophis as the Worldcircular, which is kind of
(42:44):
reminding me of the Ora Boris some depict.
Some depictions of Apophis are of him being evil.
OK, I said it fine. A lot of priests in ancient
Egypt believed that they had to have a certain amount of priests
each night praying to help ensure that Rob would win his
(43:05):
nightly battle and that the sun would rise again the next
morning. Also, Pharaohs were often
depicted Spearing serpents, which reinforced this cosmic
kinship to Raw and the Sun God. Also honorable mention that Aura
Boris's were often engraved in shrines and tombs of some of the
(43:33):
Pharaohs, including our boy Tutankhamun.
Just saying. Then in Greece we also have
stories of primordial serpents. There is the story of a Python
who is a giant serpent and was believed to protect the navel of
(43:56):
planet Earth, which they basically considered the center
of planet earth which happened to be Delphi and the Oracle tree
in ancient Greece. They believe that the Oracle
tree sat on the exact center of planet earth and that this
primordial Python protected it. This is also kind of giving
kundalini energy, am I right? The Python was considered to be
(44:21):
a child of Gaia who is Mother Earth.
Later the Python became the enemy of Apollo who is the God
of the Sun. This is really giving Raw an
Apophis. And eventually Apollo slayed the
Python at the tree of Delphi andthe site Delphi and the Oracle
(44:45):
tree became a part of the Kingdom of Apollo.
Fascinating. Also all over Greece they have
depictions of the Uroboris, the serpent eating its own tail.
They often associate it with thesymbol of eternity, Infinity
cycles, and rebirth. Uroboris is also actually a
Greek word. It literally translates into
(45:08):
tail eater, and the Uroboris is depicted in Norse mythology.
In Norse mythology, the Uroborisappears as the serpent Yor
Mungander, one of the three children of Loki and Angreboda.
Their children grew so large, and specifically the serpent the
(45:32):
Uroboros grew so large that it can encircle the world and grasp
its tail in its teeth. In the legends of Ragnar
Lodbrok, the Great King Herod gives a small lindworm as a gift
to his daughter Pora, after which it grows into a large
(45:53):
serpent which encircles the girl's Bower and bites itself in
the tail. The serpent is eventually slain
by Ragnar, who marries Pora, andRagnar later has a son with
another woman named Kraka. Sorry, that name got me.
And his son was born with the image of the white snake in one
(46:16):
eye. This snake encircled the iris
and bit itself in the tail. And the sun was named Sigurd.
Snake in the eye. Some enigmatic, like what are?
It's just so fascinating to me that these symbols reoccur in
all these cultures. However, another honorable
(46:37):
mention though in Greece is of course the staff of Asclepius.
This is the symbol that we all know and we see to this day in a
lot of pharmacies, hospitals, the symbol of a staff with a
snake intertwined around it. This comes from the healing cult
(46:58):
of Asclepius. Asclepius was a deity in the
Greek pantheon and his symbol was a snap, a staff with a snake
wrapped around it. A big idea of why this was as
simple was because the snake itself, with its shedding skin,
(47:19):
was a symbol of rejuvenation andpossibly healing yourself.
However, a lot of other people believe as well that the staff
and the snake together symbolizethe dual nature of life, death,
sickness and health. Another honorable mention in the
(47:40):
theory is that an ancient Greek society, the term phonmacon,
which of course you hear pharma in there, meant both drug or
medicine and poison. Interesting.
So the snake was a symbol of that power of being both able to
(48:01):
heal but also having the abilityto poison.
Some believe that the staff of Asclepius was a symbol of
magical healing, much like a wizard's staff.
Interestingly, because the snakewas associated with Asclepius, a
non venomous rat eating snake was allowed to crawl freely on
(48:22):
the floors of his temples, whichwere essentially dormitories for
the sick. So this breed of snake there
sometimes there'd be like many would just be allowed to like
roam around the hospital, but they would eat rats.
So I feel like this is for the best because as they eat rats,
vermin carry disease. I mean, we don't hear about the
bubonic plague in ancient Greece, Am I right?
(48:46):
And now we get to our big boys, ancient India.
Of course, the primordial serpent of ancient India is
known as the not a. I'd have talked about the nagas
a little bit before so I'm not going to go as super deep on a
deep dive, but the Nagas are a semi divine serpent being.
(49:08):
They're the guardians of treasures and cosmic waters.
They're both dangerous and benevolent.
Also a really big honorable mention is that in many stories
of the Buddha reaching enlightenment, there is a tale
that Buddha reaches enlightenment before a 13 day
(49:31):
storm I believe, and the king ofNagas, the Nagaraja comes from
the underworld and creates A canopy with all of his heads for
the Buddha to stay warm and dry.Interestingly as well, according
to the Indian tradition, the Nagas used to rule the earth and
(49:54):
then eventually we're banished into the underworld.
Like there is something going onhere, you know what I'm saying?
All of these cultures have stories about these incredibly
huge serpent dragon like creatures which once ruled the
earth and are now living in the underworld.
(50:15):
And then of course we have the Kundalini serpent and mentioned
it being the snake coiled at thebase of the spine and this has
been mentioned in the Iterea Brahmana.
Sorry about my pronunciation guys.
(50:36):
This is a Vedic text that goes back to as early as the first
Millennium BC. The nature of the Vedic rituals
is compared to a snake biting its own tail.
Orobor symbolism has been used to describe the Kundalini.
According to medieval yoga Kundalini, the divine power
(50:59):
Kundalini shines like the stem of a young Lotus.
Like a snake coiled round upon herself, she holds her tail in
her mouth and lies resting half asleep as the base of the body.
Also, some Hindu scholars use the Urobor's image as a
(51:22):
reference to the cycle of samsara, which is the cycle of
rebirth until you finally can reach enlightenment.
This is pretty deep. Next we're going to talk about
China. Babe, In ancient China, they
(51:43):
obviously have huge mega storiesabout serpents, really
specifically Dragons. But in a lot of depictions of
the Chinese Dragons, they reallyare more serpent like.
They have these dragon heads, but they have these long
Slytherin lanky bodies. They consider Dragons to be
benevolent. They're incredibly long and they
(52:04):
often have no wings. So this is giving serpent.
They embody cosmic harmony and control over rain, rivers and
fertility of the land. Farmers performed dragon serpent
rituals to ensure that their crops would grow.
There was even dragon dragon kings mythic serpent like rulers
(52:27):
of the Seas. Each ocean, lake or river could
have its own dragon king, often worshipped in temples for
example. Fishermen prayed to these
serpent dragon deities for safety and good harvest from the
South. Oh, from the sea.
Of course. There's also the Yellow dragon,
which is considered to be the father of all emperors in China
(52:50):
and the first emperor. He came down from the sky and
incarnated and bestowed the title of emperor upon the human
race, which is also reminding meof Tiamat.
Am I right? I I am right.
Also honorable mention to Nuwa who I've never heard of, who's
(53:11):
actually a serpent bodied goddess in the Chinese
tradition. Nuwa is a creator deity with a
human torso and a serpent body. She patched the sky with colored
stones. After cosmic catastrophe, she is
associated with order, rebirth and balance, again echoing
(53:31):
serpent as life and restorer. The Serpent Dragon in China
fuses earthly fertility with heavenly balance.
This yin and Yang principle, it represents the liminal bridge
between chaos and harmony. Hey little Pepper, this is
Annabelle here reporting live from Pepper World HQ.
(53:55):
If you enjoy the podcast it would help so much if you could
follow me, you could write a comment.
Give me 5 stars perhaps. Also, I would love to hear from
you. e-mail in at esotericaandnonsense@gmail.com.
I'd love to hear about your stories.
I'd love to hear about suggestions.
I would love to hear about any kind of weird, freaky thing that
(54:19):
comes to your mind. Also, if you would like to
support my podcast, you can follow me on Patreon.
It's Patreon back slash esoterica and nonsense.
I will also have a YouTube page coming at you so soon.
And I also sell merch. You can look up my merch.
It's in the show notes for everysingle episode as well as the
show notes for my show. I appreciate you so much.
(54:43):
I made this podcast to connect with cool freaky people like
you, so thank you so much. Yeah, bad.
Next up I want to get into Mesoamerica.
This shit is so fucking cool. In the Aztec and slash Meshika
(55:11):
tradition there are stories of Quetzalcoatl and in the minor
tradition there is Kukuliokan. What I find fascinating though,
and like this is just. I think this is true for like
all ancient culture. It's like when I'm doing a lot
of this research, I see these distinctions being made like oh
(55:34):
quetzalcoidal is from the Aztec slash Meshika tradition.
However, Quetzales which are birds are like all over the
Mayan world. It's like the symbol of like the
Mayan culture. And I have heard when I spend
(55:56):
time in Guatemala, people talking about Quetzalcoatl.
So I'm not an expert on this. I'm just doing raw research.
And I just want to remind everyone that a lot of these
sources are written about. They are written by white men
who really don't know anything. And that's why we're doing the
investigation ourselves. We're putting pieces together.
(56:18):
These white guys could never, you know what?
I'm you know what I'm saying, but basically Quetzalcoatl and
Kulkulia Khan are very similar deities and some argue is the
same deity with a different namefrom different cultures.
He is known as the Feathered Serpent and one of the most
(56:40):
important gods of the Americas. He symbolizes the union of
Earth, the serpent and sky feathers associated with Venus,
the morning star in the cycles of resurrection and cosmic
order. Myths say that he descended to
the underworld to retrieve bonesfrom the past worlds, sprinkling
(57:04):
them with his own blood to create humanity.
The story goes something like this.
Long, long ago, when the world was young, the gods gathered in
deal with Dil Tiwakan, the city of Gods.
(57:26):
Humanity had perished in a greatdestruction and the world was
barren. But the gods decided mankind
should be reborn. The task fell to Quetzalcoitl,
the Feathered Serpent, Lord of Wind, Knowledge and creation.
To bring forth life again, he had to journey into the
(57:48):
underworld, Mikkelan, ruled by Mikkelan Tequitli and MIT Tequi
Quatl. I'm doing my best.
The skeletal Lord and Lady of Death, Quetzalcoitl descended
through the 9 levels of Mikkelan, where shadows pressed
(58:11):
in and winds carried the cries of the dead.
At the deepest layer, he found the gods of death, who guarded
the bones of the previous creations of mankind.
Miklan Tektwitel spoke. If you can sound this conch, you
may take the bones, but the conch is hollow and silent as
(58:35):
death. Quetzalcoitel accepted.
He called upon the worms of the earth and bore holes in the
shell, and then the bees to swarm inside, buzzing until the
conch sounded. The death gods, tricked, handed
him the bones, but they set traps along the path.
(58:57):
As Quetzalcoitel fled upwards, he stumbled.
The bones fell and shattered, scattering across the underworld
floor. Desperate, he gathered what
fragments he could, carrying them back to the light of the
world above. Once he returned, Quetzalcoitel
placed the bones in a sacred bundle.
(59:18):
He bled on to them, giving his own essence to the bones.
From the union of Divine Blood, an ancient bone, humanity was
reborn. Fragile, broken, but alive.
And so the Meshika explained whyhumans come into many sizes and
(59:38):
shapes. We are made of mismatched bones
given life by the blood of the feathered serpent.
Beautiful. Also, it is said that many of
the pyramids around the ancient world in both the Aztec and
Mayan traditions, such as Chichen Itza, the Temple of
(01:00:00):
Kuliakan, were built to align with the equinoxes and the
solstices, creating the illusionof the giant serpent of lights
sliding down the stairs. I also think it's an honorable
mention to talk about the story that the Meshuka had about the
creation of what is now Mexico City.
(01:00:26):
There was a legend as they were nomadic that they would be a
place they would eventually settle.
And according to their prophecy that the place that they would
eventually settle would show itself when they saw an eagle
attacking a snake on a San Pedrocactus.
(01:00:49):
And so as the legend goes, for centuries this tribe of people
were nomadic, moving from place to place.
And eventually on this island inthis beautiful lake next to a
volcano, they saw an eagle attacking a snake on the San
Pedro cactus. And then of course, this is
(01:01:13):
where they decided to settle. This became their capital, which
is now known as Mexico City, less without the Mexico.
Also, if you haven't seen, the Mexican flag also has this
symbol of the eagle attacking the snake.
And I do think that is really interesting.
I think like using the lens of all the ancient cultures with
(01:01:37):
this, it does kind of feel like this idea of like the heavens,
the sky triumphing over the earth.
I also feel like it's kind of this idea, if you will, of
enlightenment because as the snake is being eaten and
(01:01:57):
absorbed by the eagle, it is then moving into the sky.
It is going from the ground intothe sky.
And then of course, as some physical cactus.
I mean, you're going to trip balls.
So to me, it does kind of feel like another allegory yet again,
of enlightenment. But that's just me.
What do you think? E-mail in babe, tell me your
(01:02:18):
thoughts. Also, unsurprisingly, the
natives of North America also have some stories about some
serpents. Also, I just want to say if you
if I am just butchering this because I'm doing my research
online and you know these stories better than me, please
e-mail and I would love to hear about you.
(01:02:39):
There's the whole point of this podcast.
I want to create a community of beautiful, magical people and I
want to hear your stories. I want to tell the stories that
you heard growing up. Educate me, babe.
I'm tired of these white guys writing history.
Please. So in the North American
traditions, there is a primordial snake known as the
(01:03:01):
Great Serpent, and this is a widespread concept.
Specifically among the Cherokee.They talk of the horned serpent
known as the Ukdena. It is a giant snake with crystal
in its forehead that could grantvisions and powers.
Hunters sought to find it at great risk.
(01:03:23):
In the Ojibwe culture, they describe the underwater serpent
Mischi beshu, the guardian of lakes associated with storms and
powerful medicine. There is an episode where I talk
about Mischi Beshu and I don't know which episode it is but get
lost in these episodes. Dead.
Also in the Hopi traditions, they tell of serpent deities
(01:03:45):
connected with underground waters, initiation ceremonies,
and spirits. Serpents appear in ceremonies as
guardians of water and as power,often feared but also revered as
teachers. MMM and I also like think
because they're almost always associated with water and water
(01:04:09):
is a symbol of emotions and femininity and they are often,
again, serpents are often associated with the creation of
the universe. This is like giving feminine
energy. It's giving the feminine primal,
fearsome power. Just saying.
Also in the South American traditions there are tons of
(01:04:33):
mentions of primordial serpents.Fun fact, if you haven't seen
it, go and watch Embrace of the Serpent.
It is the best film ever made. It will change your life.
Please watch that film. However, in the ancient Incan
tradition they have tales of Amaru.
Amaru is a double headed serpentwith one head pointing to the
(01:04:55):
heavens and one to the underworld.
Amaru is a symbol of liminality,the bridging of cosmic realms in
a lot of ink and art. The serpent Amaru appears in
textiles and carvings associatedwith magical slash, some
shamanic journeys. A lot of practitioners of of
(01:05:20):
magic invoked serpents during ritual drinking of ayahuasca,
where serpents often appear as guiding or devouring vision.
Serpents embody the transformation through death and
rebirth, journeying between worlds and acquiring wisdom.
In some Amazonian tribes they have stories of the universe
(01:05:45):
having been created by a Anaconda and the giant Anaconda
being the mother of the universe.
Interestingly, and I think without question across
cultures, serpents embody the liminal space, earth, water,
(01:06:09):
trees, and being able to move between realms.
Arguably some feminine energy. Humans everywhere evolved with
instinctive snake fear. This is a primal template, as
they call it, a fear of snakes to be able to because they, you
know, are formidable and they'reterrifying.
(01:06:31):
However, a lot of these myths transmute the sphere of snakes
into symbols of power and of wisdom, because they are.
And I also think it's important to remember that not every
culture, just because you fearedsomething doesn't make it bad.
You can respect its power and perhaps even aspire to attain
its power. Of course, there is this common
(01:06:58):
theme of this heroes slaying theagent of chaos, right?
We see this in the symbol of theeagle attacking the snake.
We see this in RAW attacking Apophis.
We see this in Apollo killing the Python.
(01:07:18):
However, beyond all these stories, and almost arguably
older than those stories, is thestory of the serpent as a
guardian of knowledge and a guardian of ancient wisdom.
They're often depicted with Infinity, the cosmic circle, and
(01:07:40):
as a healer. And that's really kind of like
my ultimate question, like when did this start happening as as a
human society? Because even though there are
cultures that are separated by oceans and mountains, as
humanity, we we share a collective subconscious.
(01:08:02):
We all are one. There is no individuality.
And I do think it's really telling that a symbol that was
often associated with enlightenment and power and
primordial creation became demonized.
I think that's something that wereally need to examine.
And in general, we just need to examine this idea that if
(01:08:24):
something is dangerous or more powerful than us, it is
something to be defeated. Like perhaps it's OK that we're
not the apex predator. Like I feel like we need to let
I'm now I'm addressing just men,but this idea of being like the
most powerful, why is that the goal?
What if as humans, our real purpose is to be caretakers to
(01:08:45):
the land, to appreciate the land, to fertilize the land, to
care for the land. And if it's our time, if a, if a
snake decides to take us, like maybe it's the snake's
prerogative. Maybe the snake really is an
ally and knows what it's doing. You know what I've said like
maybe I'm like getting a little bit too loose with this, but
(01:09:08):
this is just an idea. OK, Now I do want to talk about
some like modern, interesting, fun left field concepts.
As time has gone on, obviously many people have had their own
hot takes of these concepts. What are these ancient
primordial serpents? What do they mean?
(01:09:30):
And a theory by Thomas Hobbes known as Leviathan is something
worth mentioning and I find it very fascinating.
Thomas Hobbes wrote in 1651 his quote masterpiece.
(01:09:52):
We'll see about that known as Leviathan.
He borrowed its title and imagery from the biblical chaos
servant. Of course we know all about the
Leviathan. We're prose.
Instead of him seeing the Leviathan as a sea monster
threatening divine order, Hobbesenvisioned the state itself
being the political state as a Leviathan, an immense, almost
(01:10:16):
monstrous body composed of its citizens.
Essentially, he wrote this during the English Civil War
between 1641 and 1651. This was a time of chaos,
shifting power and civil breakdown.
He believed that without a strong central authority that
human life would descend into a quote war of every man against
(01:10:40):
every man, where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish
and short. So he provoked proposed that the
Leviathan as a state. So bear with me.
Basically he describes society as a social contract that people
(01:11:02):
surrender to. They surrender certain freedoms
to a sovereignty in exchange forsecurity.
It's giving fascism the sovereign, which would be a
monarch or a government, becomesthe Leviathan, a massive
artificial person whose body is composed of the individuals of
(01:11:22):
said society. Basically in his writings there
are illustrations of Leviathan with a giant crowned figure and
its body is made of countless tiny humans looming over the
land with sword and staff. Basically he's proposing that
(01:11:45):
the Leviathan in essence is a serpent of society, powerful,
immense, and potentially terrifying, but necessary to
hold back the chaos of human nature.
Hobbes consciously invoked the biblical serpent to describe the
government as a creature greaterthan anyone man binding chaos
(01:12:06):
through overwhelming authority. I mean, I feel like this is kind
of like a Freudian slip because granted, I do.
I'm kind of interpreting like the serpent as a symbol of
enlightenment for sure. But I do think that it's really
(01:12:29):
telling that like most Christians and modern society
has demonized the snake, right? So like this is kind of like a
deep idea, this idea of everyonecoming together to create a
thing larger than them, which I love.
And I do think is true. I don't believe in separateness.
I do believe we're all one. But then he has to go and again,
(01:12:49):
appoint a quote sovereign, a monarch.
So like this is kind of like in a weird way creating this like
weird self fulfilling prophecy that then society becomes this
primordial chaos agent. He's saying that to avoid chaos,
we have to become a Leviathan. But according to Christians, a
(01:13:10):
Leviathan is a chaos agent. You know what I'm saying?
So I have mixed feelings about this.
I do. I do think that as humanity, for
us to be able to Co create symbiotically, we have to like
align our consciousnesses. I think that will happen more
through meditation and psychic connection.
(01:13:31):
And when we can all do that, we've realized that we don't
really want to be murdering and killing.
We want to be coexisting and Co creating.
But I don't necessarily think that it makes sense to be
aligning each other and becomingone to only a point, like a
sovereign ruler. That seems incredibly silly to
me and counterproductive, don't you think?
(01:13:52):
I think so. Oh, Thomas Hobbes.
Oh. What will white men think of
next? Hi there.
Did you know that humans are made mostly of water?
Something like 80% or something?I don't, I don't remember the
stats. The water's crucial, you guys,
(01:14:16):
water's crucial. Have you been drinking water
today? I highly recommend it.
You can also add a little bit oflike pink salt or or Celtic salt
or some nice like Real Salt to your water to help your
electrolytes. You can do a cucumber infusion.
You could add some mint in there, some chia seeds like I'm
(01:14:39):
I'm inviting you to be creative here, but I'm also here to
remind you, drink your water, baby boy.
Drink your water really helps with the function of the nervous
system, the function of the bowels.
We're talking optimal functioning here.
Drink your water, baby. All in all, I have to side with
(01:15:06):
Suryuk Deswar on this. This idea that all animals are
allies, all animals are creations, manifestations of
nature, the truest nature which derives from the creator of the
universe. And that these symbols and these
(01:15:30):
concepts, these primordial serpents are symbols of power,
of beauty, and of magic. I have trouble seeing them as
symbols of evil, and I have trouble seeing them as an
allegory for unifying to then appoint a king.
(01:15:55):
I think Thomas Hobbes was close but incredibly off.
But one thing that I think is worth mentioning that across
cultures, serpents symbolize immortality and regeneration.
They shed their skin only to return transformed.
(01:16:16):
They embody the paradox of humanexistence, both fear and wisdom,
chaos and order, death and rebirth.
Perhaps the serpent never left the Garden of Eden.
Perhaps it coils still within us.
A guardian, a trickster, A healer.
(01:16:36):
Destroyer whispering secrets of transformation, daring us to
shed our own skin and step into the unknown.
How beautiful is that? Thank you so much for listening,
I really appreciate you and I would just love to leave you
with this idea that it is easy when you fear something to deem
(01:17:04):
it as evil. And what if something you feared
was something you were supposed to learn from?
I love you so much, I appreciateyou and I'll see you next time.
Hello and welcome to Esoterica and Nonsense, a podcast where we
discuss myths, legends, folk tales, fairy tales, supernatural
phenomenon and religions from around the world.
I am your host, Annabelle, and Iam reporting live what a wild
(00:57):
year that it's been and how disappointing it is that people
in Palestine are still being murdered.
I think it's horrible. We've said it on this podcast
before, but I think it it shouldbe said again.
(01:20):
No human being on this planet should be denied safety.
Freshwater, food, Love. I don't really care what the
excuse is. I am never going to support a
genocide. I really don't care.
(01:41):
I really don't care what the argument is.
Genocide is not cool with me. And that applies to every single
demographic of people, every single expression of a culture,
a personality trait, A sexuality, a skin color, a
religion. I really don't care.
(02:02):
No one should be genocided pointblank period.
And I am so sad. I am so disappointed to live at
a time where humans claim to be quote UN quote modern.
(02:24):
They claim to be educated, they claim to be advanced.
They claim to have some kind of understanding, advanced
understanding of how the world works and and technology and
bettering society. I cannot buy into this fantasy
while we are murdering each other for reasons that some
(02:46):
people seem to think are justified.
It's silly, it's childish, and it's unacceptable.
So I think that needed to be said and I will be happy to
repeat that as many times as we need to hear it.
Often times that we do well withrepetition.
(03:06):
We're monkeys after all. I'm having some ice cold Sandia
juice, some watermelon. It's so good.
I also want to mention that thisyear, I feel like a lot of
people have been dying outside of the context of war and
(03:30):
genocide. Like a lot of people have just
been passing away in general, orat least people in my circles
within the last 12 months. I, I just so many people I know
and friends of friends and friends, family members, some of
my family members, so many people have passed away.
(03:52):
And I've been reflecting a lot on this because it is snake
year. It is the year of the snake, and
the year of the snake is really all about reflection.
And from what I understand, the snake sheds its skin and then
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lays eggs. And so in the Chinese Zodiac,
this year really is about rebirth and eventually like
laying an egg, like creating a new version of oneself or of
reality perhaps. And so I do think that it's
really symbolic. So many people have been passing
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away because beyond beyond people passing away, I also
think there is just a giant rebirth happening both literally
and allegorically. And so I just really wanted to
take a second to pay respect andsend a blessing to every single
being, be it human, animal, extraterrestrial, any kind of
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being who has been reborn and passed into the other realms.
I would love to send you all a blessing.
And I would like to send a blessing to every conscious and
living thing. Love is the best thing that we
have, and sharing love with eachother is kind of the secret how
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this all works. So I love you, whoever is
listening to this. I love you.
And Speaking of snakes, we're going to talk about snakes
today, babe. We're going to talk all about
snakes. OK, well, let's be clear.
Snakes is a huge category and there's so much to talk about.
But specifically today I want totalk about serpents, primordial
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serpents, leviathans, creator spirits.
I've noticed that almost over the whole planet there are
creation myths that involve serpents, and I find them to be
very interesting. Why is that?
And, and as time has passed in our human civilization, our
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experience and opinion of the snake has changed greatly.
And I have some theories as to why.
So let's get into it, babe. Buckle up.
I bring you primordial serpents,Slytherin.
Except you're toast. JK, Sorry, you're toast.
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We don't fuck with you, OK? Beneath the waters, coiled in
the shadows, there's always a serpent.
From Mesopotamia to the Bible, from Mesoamerica to the Far
East, serpents have been keepersof wisdom.
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Chaos burners. Oops.
Chaos bringers. Chaos burners work.
Bringers of chaos and sometimes gods themselves.
This is primordial serpents, leviathans, etcetera.
(07:19):
Let's get into it. So let's first talk about one of
the OG stories, one of the OG serpent myths.
This is Tiamat. Tiamat is a Mesopotamian
primordial chaos dragon slash serpent.
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She was a saltwater queen. She was always depicted as
female, depicted as anthropomorphic, but almost
always she was depicted with breasts and a tail, a love.
She is known to birth the first generations of deities after
mingling with her consort Abzu. An Abzu is a deity of the
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groundwater. So these are two water spirits
birthing other deities and theiroffspring who are these deities
were known to be incredibly loudand noisy, which very much
pissed off their parents. Now this is kind of reminding me
of the Titans in Greek mythology, am I right?
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Yes, of course I am. Also, what's kind of crazy is
that some of their grandchildren, some of Tia
Mott's grandchildren, are considered to be Anu and Ki.
If you don't know, according to the Mesopotamian history, and I
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want to be very clear, when you research some of this, they will
sometimes refer to the Anunnaki as a part of the Mesopotamian
religion. However, in Mesopotamian
culture, they did not have a word for religion, so they
considered this to be their history and they had stories of
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beings who came down from the sky and essentially colonized
them, taught them language, taught them mathematics, gave
them technology, etcetera, etcetera.
These people they called the Anunnaki and they lived on a
giant planet which they called Nibiru that would rotate around
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it would orbit around our solar system, etcetera, etcetera.
And the head, the king of this this race of beings was known as
Anu. So according to this creation
myth, Tiamat, this primordial saltwater goddess, is the
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grandmother of Anu, fascinating and Key, who is the goddess of
Earth. And there you have Anu Naki.
OK, so according to this myth, the children of Absu and Tiamat
are very loud. They're very entitled.
Absu is driven mad by the noise.He can't take it.
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And in a violent rage, he gets himself killed.
And so of course, Tiamat is incredibly upset.
This is her Boo. This is her BAE.
She will not stand, so she wageswar on the demigods.
She takes on a new consort by the name of Kingu, and she
bestows upon him the tablet of destinies.
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And this is essentially a declaration of divine rulership.
This is also kind of giving the the divine covenant.
This is a thing in other cultures as well and in China
they have a similar story where the the dragon of the east
bestows upon the king the right to be the ruler.
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And according to their history, this tablet of destinies would
be passed on from king to king throughout the Mesopotamian
society. So eventually our girl Tiamat is
slain by Marduk. Marduk is in the Anunnaki
pantheon and he is the son of Anki which OK let's see.
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Anki is one of the sons of Anu. He is considered to be a bastard
son. He is associated with the sign
Capricorn. This goat mermaid situation is
the symbol of Anki. He's also Poseidon and he was
banished to the ocean by his brother and Lil who was the
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legitimate son of Anu. Is this too much info?
Maybe it's too much info, but ifEnki is the son of Anu and Anu
is the grandson of Tiamat, this would make Marduk the great
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great grandson of Tiamat. So he slays Tiamat and according
to their history, the body of Tiamat became the heavens and
the earth. How beautiful is that?
So according to their history, the earth and the heavens are
made out of the body of this giant primordial female serpent
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with large breasts. Love her.
I also think this is interestingbecause there's a lot of
crossovers with biblical moments, and we're going to
touch on that in just a second. What I also find fascinating is
in Mesopotamian culture snakes were believed to be immortal
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because they could infinitely shed their skin and be reborn,
so they believed that snakes were immortal beings.
Also in the Sumerian culture they worshipped A deity known as
Ningishida, the God of vegetation and the underworld
war and snakes. It is believed that Ningishida
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believed to spend part of the year on the land and part of the
year in the land of the dead. Also, before the arrival of the
Israelites, snake cults were incredibly popular and widely
established in the Canaanite cultures during the Bronze Age.
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Think about that. There are snake cults all around
the ancient world. Let that sink in babe.
Snake cults in ancient cities inSyria all the way to Babylon.
So we're this is a huge, huge area from ancient Syria all the
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way to Babylon, which is modern day Baghdad.
Archaeologists have found a bronze statues of gods holding
bronze snakes and of singular bronze snakes flanked over
doorways of temples. Get out of here.
So it's pretty obvious that snakes are a big deal in the
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ancient world. Obviously.
And sadly a lot of nuance and details from Mesopotamian and
Sumerian culture are lost on us because so much time has passed,
and arguably because throughout colonization people destroy so
many relics due to bigotry. But I do want to talk about the
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crossovers of Tiamat to the Leviathan, which is mentioned in
the Bible. What I do also want to mention
is that the Bible obviously are these ancient stories, but a lot
of these elements and themes in the Bible weren't created out of
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thin air. Even the stories of let's say
Moses or Abraham or even Jesus, sure, those may have been
contemporary stories, but a lot of cultural contexts and, and
possibly even older stories in the Bible could have already
been thousands of years old or culturally had been marinating
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for thousands of years, right? And I just like, really want
that to sink in because I think it's really hard for us as
humans in the present day to contextualize and understand how
beliefs can shift very quickly and how an image or a concept
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for perhaps for thousands of years could have meant something
incredibly sacred and holy, and then over the course of a couple
decades could be demonized. And I just really want you to
like think about that as we're learning about these serpents
because in my opinion, it's veryclear that in the ancient world,
serpents were considered magicaland special.
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And I feel like because of possibly mostly the Christian
Church, serpents started becoming demonized.
And there's just like a lot of, there's a lot of layers to go
through. So let's get into it.
OK. So in the Hebrew tradition and
biblical traditions, they talk of a Leviathan.
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The leviathan is a monstrous seaserpent mentioned in the book of
Job, the book of Psalms, and thebook of Isaiah.
She is known as a chaos monster who's eventually subdued by
Yahweh. It is thought that the world
comes oh it it my bad. It is thought that the word
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Leviathan derives from the term in Hebrew, which means wreathed
and twisted and folds, which is like describing the physicality
of the creature. Interestingly, the Leviathan is
almost always described as a female, but there are some
versions and translations of theBible that talk about there
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being a male and female, and themale was eventually killed.
So usually when people say leviathan, they're talking about
a she serpent monster. She is described usually as some
kind of serpent dragon who livesdeep in the ocean.
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Her partner is often called a behemoth.
This is like the most common translation and the behemoth is
not a leviathan, it's a different species.
The behemoth basically translatetranslates into great beast and
a lot of a lot of historians believe that the word behemoth
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could derive from ancient Egyptian words that referred to
water, ox, or in some context hippos.
So the behemoth is like this male giant formidable creature,
right? Interestingly, the Leviathan was
often described to possess illuminating power, specifically
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in her eyes, and she would be known to be able to create light
and heat. Oh, isn't that fascinating?
According to most scriptures, God decided that Leviathans
would overpopulate the earth, which is why he's ended up
slaying the female Leviathan. And we'll save her flesh and
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serve her as a feast for the righteous on the advent of the
Messiah. What?
Let's take a break. Hello, traveller.
Have you forgotten that you are an incredible, one-of-a-kind
(19:30):
Pepper? There is no one on planet Earth
like you. Do you know how incredible that
is? Never forget it.
It might take time, it might take practice, but whatever your
dreams are, you can attain them.Yes, you can.
And you know that it's true. I believe in you.
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I'm so proud of you. One step at a time, and you're
going to make it. And we're back, darling.
I think it's very I like want totake a second and dissect this
sentiment that according to the Bible, the righteous would eat
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the flesh of the Leviathan. Because in my opinion, I do
think that a lot of ancient and religious slash spiritual text
is deeply coated with poetic allegory.
So perhaps the snake, this primordial energy, this
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primordial force would be accessible to the righteous, and
perhaps it is a symbol of not only connecting with Earth, but
connecting with enlightenment, with the most ancient, feminine,
formidable force there is. Now, I also like there's even
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more to discuss, so let's talk about it because this shit is
pretty crazy. Specifically, in one of the
Talmuds, they describe the skin of the Leviathan being used to
cover a tent where the banquet of the righteous would take
place. So at this banquet of the
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righteous during the advent of the Messiah quote, you would not
only be feasting on the flesh ofthis giant serpent, but you will
also be shaded by its skin. Lovely.
The remaining skin would be usedto cover the walls of Jerusalem,
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thereby illuminating the world with its brightness.
How interesting is that though? I'm not hearing anything about
this that is condemning the beast, right?
Like, I get that people, humans are intimidated by its power,
and perhaps even Yahweh is intimidated by the power of the
Leviathan, but if you're going to eat it and be shaded by it
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and then use its skin to illuminate your holy city,
don't. Then we would love the
Leviathan, right? I think we love her.
I rest my case. Interesting.
Another interesting fun fact that in the Zohar which is some
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of the foundational writings of the Kabbalah which is the book
of Jewish mysticism which reallyderives from Egyptian mysticism
that Moses shared with the Israelites.
The Zohar refers to the Leviathan as a metaphor for
enlightenment. They consider the image of the
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righteous eating the flesh of the Leviathan at this banquet
was considered to be a metaphor for absorbing the light of the
soul and achieving enlightenment.
Some Jewish rabbis and scholars have likened the Leviathan to
the Uroboros and describe it having no mate and having its
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tail placed in its mouth, twisting around and encompassing
the entire world. I find this also very
interesting. We're going to get to that in a
second, but a lot of cultures have a similar image of an aura
Boris, a serpent or snake eatingits own tail, encompassing the
world. I do find this really
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fascinating. It's a symbol of life and death,
rebirth, regeneration. But I also think it's so
fascinating that growing up, I wasn't religious, but when I
would hear the term Leviathan, Ifeel like it was often
associated with like, primordialevil or like darkness.
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And there's really no evidence to support that.
And I would argue that a lot of that comes from the
interpretation of the snake fromGenesis, which I also think is a
misinterpretation. And I will get to that theory,
so bear with me. The serpent in Eden who is not
considered to be a leviathan. This is like a regular serpent,
right? Often is interpreted as a symbol
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of temptation, wisdom, rebellion.
And of course by many Christiansthe serpent is associated with
the devil. Because of this Christian idea
of serpents being the devil, a lot of Christian interpretations
taint most serpents to be symbols of endangering God's
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power and being agents of chaos.Interestingly, in the Old
Testament there are never into into There are never anything
that identifies the Leviathan with the devil.
But in the New Testament it is explicitly described as a 7
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headed dragon and an inaction ofthe devil.
See, I need to have a some of myJews.
I think this is so crucial. This is something maybe I should
do a deep dive one day, like comparing Christian
interpretations of the Old Testament because where does
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this come from? Like where do all these
demonizations come from? And I have a theory.
Really my theory is as we know, if you haven't listened to my
episode #2 which is about CopticChristianity, highly recommend.
But essentially Christianity really caught on after Jesus
died. And in the 1st 1000 years from
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basically year 0 up to the year 1000, so many people were
converting to Christianity. So many.
And at this point in time in general, most religions were
oral traditions. And so within the ancient world
people started having their own versions of the Bible.
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Some of the oldest Bibles known to man were have been found in
Greece, Ethiopia and Egypt. Also though, honorable mention
to Armenia, which was the first country to make Christianity
their official religion, and Turkey, of course, modern day
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Turkey was one of the first cities to host a worldwide
debate about Christianity. Now, I'm going to be staying on
topic here, but essentially around the year 700, don't quote
me on that, the Roman Empire realized that their empire was
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so big and they really didn't have the respect of most of
their subjects because most of their subjects were foreigners
from these faraway lands who hadno respect for Rome because Rome
were horrible colonizers. So they recognized that even
while being colonized, people were still so proudly paying
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tribute to Christianity. They even noticed that for a
while in Egypt, the local Egyptians were practicing
Christianity while they still had to pay a tax to the Arab
caliphate for being Christian. And they were dealing with all
kinds of prejudice by being Christian, and they still chose
to do it proudly. And so of course Rome recognized
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this opportunity. At this point in the Christian
world, one of the highest ranking priest was known as the
Sea of Alexandria. He was a priest of the city of
Alexandria that many Christians would refer to for guidance and
or interpreting the Bible. Rome decided to appoint a Sea of
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Rome, and the Sea of Rome is nowcalled the Pope, and now the
Pope is considered to be the highest ranking clergymen of the
whole Christian world, blah blahblah.
So with this idea of using a religion to colonize people,
using a religion to colonize their beliefs, to then colonize
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their country, their culture, their economy, everything, also
came this idea of demonizing allthings that predates
Christianity, which they called Pagan, right?
So I think, and I'm just, I wanted to say this now because
like I just, I feel like there'sso much darkness and judgment
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that is cast upon snakes that I in my opinion comes from Rome Co
opting and colonizing Christianity and demonizing all
things ancient also. And I one thing I want to bring
up which I find fascinating, that in the Gnostic tradition,
the Gnostic tradition is kind ofa branch of Christianity.
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And they call themselves Gnosticbecause the word gnosis, which
is a Greek word means knowledge.They have really interesting hot
takes on the Bible. And in the Gnostic tradition,
they see the Leviathan as an aura Boris that separates the
truest reality into the distorted and physical material
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world. And eventually, when one dies,
they must pass through the sevenlayers of heaven or they will be
consumed by the Leviathan. Oh, isn't that fascinating?
And get this, according to Gnosticism, the serpent in the
Garden of Eden is not referred to as Leviathan, but often
associated with the Leviathan. They describe the serpent in the
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Garden of Eden as a deceptive creature by promoting Eve to eat
the apple that God had forbidden.
But what I think is so fascinating is that according to
the Gnostic tradition, they see a distinction between the truest
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God and the demiurge. And essentially what this means
is that a demiurge is like a false God, maybe not quite a
false God, it's like a Demi God.And so, according to the
Gnostics, in the Bible, the God that is often referred to is
only the creator of the materialworld, whereas the real truest
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God cannot be named. And so the serpent actually is a
teacher, a symbol of wisdom, by telling Eve to eat the apple, by
telling Eve to eat from the apple of from the tree of
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knowledge. Interestingly too, in the Bible
they discuss that part of why God ends up banishing Adam and
Eve from the Garden of Eden is so that they didn't eat from the
tree of life and gain immortality.
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Yes I I do think this is really interesting.
Like especially when I read the Bible it feels very colonizer
coded. It feels very if there was a
God, if if, if the God from the Bible existed, which they claim
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is all loving, all accepting, all forgiving.
This idea of banishing and punishing like doesn't really
fit into me. And so I do kind of like this
Gnostic concept of there being this demigod that essentially is
like us. He has an ego.
He is a being with faults and islimited versus him being the
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like the truest creator of all things, right?
Interestingly, and non surprisingly, a lot of clergymen
in Christianity see the serpent as an allegory for sexual
desire. Also, I this is fascinating.
In the Hebrew language, the wordfor snake is often nachas.
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Nachas. I don't know if I'm pronouncing
that correctly. Nachas.
It is possible that this word nahas derives from a word
meaning luminous or shining one.This is also an interesting tie
in because in the story of Moses, Moses recognizes the call
of God to lead the Israelites out of slavery, and he
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anticipated that the Israelites would doubt his divine calling.
And so Moses asks God for a sign.
God tells him to cast his rod that he carried on to the
ground, and as he did that his rod turned into a snake.
Moses ran from the snake with the God, but God told him to
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take it by the tail, and as he did, his rod turned back into a
rod. The snake turned back into a
rod. Also later in the book of
Exodus, Moses, Moses staff and Aaron's staff turn into snakes
again. And in the book of Numbers Moses
is described in the wilderness. He mounts a serpent of bronze on
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a pole that functioned as a cureagainst the bite of the
seraphim, which was a venomous snake.
This is also just so fascinatingto me because none of these
connote an evil serpent. These all seem to be symbols of
being the Messiah. Am I right or am I right?
(34:38):
And again, I do think that it's very telling that in the Hebrew
tradition and in the Gnostic tradition, there is no
indication that any kind of serpent is evil.
This does this does feel like the work of the Christian
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Church, demonizing all things quote Pagan.
You feel me? My one last little note is that
I mentioned that Gnosticism madea distinction between the real
creator of the universe and the Demiurge.
(35:23):
But I also wanted to mention that according to the Gnostic
tradition, the serpent symbolizes A distinction between
the unknowable God, the builder of all reality, versus the
Demiurge who is the creator of our material world.
And they see the story of the serpent in Eden as a symbol for
the eternal conflict between good and evil and the conception
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of the serpent as the liberation, savior and bestow of
knowledge. Fascinatingly, in the book
Autobiography of a Yogi, Yogananda talks about his mentor
who is named Sri Yuk Daswar. And in one part of the book, Sri
(36:11):
Yuk Daswar is talking about the Bible and he actually talks
about the Garden of Eden story. One thing that I really loved
about spending time in India andtalking to people in India was
this really like lovely and casual belief that Christianity
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is really just Hinduism. It's, it's really sweet.
I I loved in India, almost everyone I chatted to talked
about how every major religion was actually Hinduism and they
didn't know it. And that of course, every story
that you could think of from every single scripture is
actually just Hinduism that's misinterpreted.
(37:00):
So anyway, Sukhdeswar talks about the Garden of Eden and
talks about it actually being a story from Hinduism that had
been changed through the centuries, kind of like a game
of telephone and completely misinterpreted.
And So what Sri Yukteswar said is that animals are always
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allies because they are a part of nature and they do not lie
According to him. So he was saying that anytime in
life or in a scripture, it, it doesn't matter what the
religion, if there is an animal,it is always an ally, always.
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And essentially the snake was anallegory for the kundalini
energy, which is this like primordial eternal energy that
lives in the base of our spine. That what enlightenment really
is is unlocking this, unlocking this energy on the base of your
spine and allowed it, allowing it to uncoil out of the top of
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your head. Having this energy, this
luminous light extend from the base of your spine up through
your spine and up out of the topof your head.
And this is their symbol of enlightenment.
And the snake is the symbol of said enlightenment.
And so according to Sriuk Teswar, this story of of Adam
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and Eve is an allegory for the woman, the intuitive, creative
part of humanity, listening to her own intuition, listening to
the snake at the base of her spine, her intuition telling her
to take a bite from the tree of knowledge.
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And by doing so allowing her soul with knowledge, with the
food of knowledge, her soul can expand.
And then of course, Adam, who was the logical masculine
version of humanity, follows her.
And in doing so, they reach fullenlightenment.
And then being banished from thegarden was actually being
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castaway from the garden of disillusion of Maya, which in in
the Hindu traditions, essentially the physical world
illusions. And I really, really love that
interpretation. And just for me personally, it
feels more accurate. I, I, that is something that I
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think I have the most fascination with.
I think that every single religious scripture is
fascinating and worth reading. But I think what puzzles me is
how the interpretations are so homogeneous.
And often, I often find that people's interpretations could
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stem back to medieval Europe. And if you are clinging to an
interpretation of any scripture that is from medieval Europe,
like maybe you need to rethink your life.
Because what were they doing right in medieval Europe?
Nothing. Like sorry babe, nothing.
(40:31):
And with that, let's keep it pushing.
There's so much to cover. So Next up we have Egypt.
Egypt also has a story of a primordial serpent.
Surprise, surprise. Here we have Apophis, also
sometimes known as a pep. A PEP, a little pimper.
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We'll just go with Apophis because if, if I keep saying a
PEP, I will be way too distracted.
I'm not professional. I'm not that professional.
So Apophis is known as the giantserpent of Chaos, a deity of the
underworld. Embodies darkness and disorder
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described as being 16 yards long, which is about 16 meters
long with the head made of Flint, which is like that stone,
right, that you would use to make sparks.
One thing though, I do think is interesting that I do want to
say really quick is that like darkness and disorder I think we
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associate with evil. But this is giving me Scorpio
vibes. Like sometimes the underworld
and darkness and chaos isn't necessarily evil.
You know what I'm saying? That's like what creation is.
Creation comes out of the world of nothingness, and then as it
materializes, it finds order. So I just see it as like a part
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of the divine cycle of all reality, right?
That's just me. OK, so Apophis, this primordial
serpent, is known as the opponent of light and the
goddess Mahat, who is the goddess of order and truth, and
Apophis is the opponent of RA, the sun deity.
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The story is that Apophis attacks Ra's solar chariot each
night, and so he's known to waitin the horizon of the far West
so that he can attack RA after sunset.
And they battle all night long. And that is why they sometimes
referred to Apophis as the Worldcircular, which is kind of
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reminding me of the Ora Boris some depict.
Some depictions of Apophis are of him being evil.
OK, I said it fine. A lot of priests in ancient
Egypt believed that they had to have a certain amount of priests
each night praying to help ensure that Rob would win his
(43:05):
nightly battle and that the sun would rise again the next
morning. Also, Pharaohs were often
depicted Spearing serpents, which reinforced this cosmic
kinship to Raw and the Sun God. Also honorable mention that Aura
Boris's were often engraved in shrines and tombs of some of the
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Pharaohs, including our boy Tutankhamun.
Just saying. Then in Greece we also have
stories of primordial serpents. There is the story of a Python
who is a giant serpent and was believed to protect the navel of
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planet Earth, which they basically considered the center
of planet earth which happened to be Delphi and the Oracle tree
in ancient Greece. They believe that the Oracle
tree sat on the exact center of planet earth and that this
primordial Python protected it. This is also kind of giving
kundalini energy, am I right? The Python was considered to be
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a child of Gaia who is Mother Earth.
Later the Python became the enemy of Apollo who is the God
of the Sun. This is really giving Raw an
Apophis. And eventually Apollo slayed the
Python at the tree of Delphi andthe site Delphi and the Oracle
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tree became a part of the Kingdom of Apollo.
Fascinating. Also all over Greece they have
depictions of the Uroboris, the serpent eating its own tail.
They often associate it with thesymbol of eternity, Infinity
cycles, and rebirth. Uroboris is also actually a
Greek word. It literally translates into
(45:08):
tail eater, and the Uroboris is depicted in Norse mythology.
In Norse mythology, the Uroborisappears as the serpent Yor
Mungander, one of the three children of Loki and Angreboda.
Their children grew so large, and specifically the serpent the
(45:32):
Uroboros grew so large that it can encircle the world and grasp
its tail in its teeth. In the legends of Ragnar
Lodbrok, the Great King Herod gives a small lindworm as a gift
to his daughter Pora, after which it grows into a large
(45:53):
serpent which encircles the girl's Bower and bites itself in
the tail. The serpent is eventually slain
by Ragnar, who marries Pora, andRagnar later has a son with
another woman named Kraka. Sorry, that name got me.
And his son was born with the image of the white snake in one
(46:16):
eye. This snake encircled the iris
and bit itself in the tail. And the sun was named Sigurd.
Snake in the eye. Some enigmatic, like what are?
It's just so fascinating to me that these symbols reoccur in
all these cultures. However, another honorable
(46:37):
mention though in Greece is of course the staff of Asclepius.
This is the symbol that we all know and we see to this day in a
lot of pharmacies, hospitals, the symbol of a staff with a
snake intertwined around it. This comes from the healing cult
(46:58):
of Asclepius. Asclepius was a deity in the
Greek pantheon and his symbol was a snap, a staff with a snake
wrapped around it. A big idea of why this was as
simple was because the snake itself, with its shedding skin,
(47:19):
was a symbol of rejuvenation andpossibly healing yourself.
However, a lot of other people believe as well that the staff
and the snake together symbolizethe dual nature of life, death,
sickness and health. Another honorable mention in the
(47:40):
theory is that an ancient Greek society, the term phonmacon,
which of course you hear pharma in there, meant both drug or
medicine and poison. Interesting.
So the snake was a symbol of that power of being both able to
(48:01):
heal but also having the abilityto poison.
Some believe that the staff of Asclepius was a symbol of
magical healing, much like a wizard's staff.
Interestingly, because the snakewas associated with Asclepius, a
non venomous rat eating snake was allowed to crawl freely on
(48:22):
the floors of his temples, whichwere essentially dormitories for
the sick. So this breed of snake there
sometimes there'd be like many would just be allowed to like
roam around the hospital, but they would eat rats.
So I feel like this is for the best because as they eat rats,
vermin carry disease. I mean, we don't hear about the
bubonic plague in ancient Greece, Am I right?
(48:46):
And now we get to our big boys, ancient India.
Of course, the primordial serpent of ancient India is
known as the not a. I'd have talked about the nagas
a little bit before so I'm not going to go as super deep on a
deep dive, but the Nagas are a semi divine serpent being.
(49:08):
They're the guardians of treasures and cosmic waters.
They're both dangerous and benevolent.
Also a really big honorable mention is that in many stories
of the Buddha reaching enlightenment, there is a tale
that Buddha reaches enlightenment before a 13 day
(49:31):
storm I believe, and the king ofNagas, the Nagaraja comes from
the underworld and creates A canopy with all of his heads for
the Buddha to stay warm and dry.Interestingly as well, according
to the Indian tradition, the Nagas used to rule the earth and
(49:54):
then eventually we're banished into the underworld.
Like there is something going onhere, you know what I'm saying?
All of these cultures have stories about these incredibly
huge serpent dragon like creatures which once ruled the
earth and are now living in the underworld.
(50:15):
And then of course we have the Kundalini serpent and mentioned
it being the snake coiled at thebase of the spine and this has
been mentioned in the Iterea Brahmana.
Sorry about my pronunciation guys.
(50:36):
This is a Vedic text that goes back to as early as the first
Millennium BC. The nature of the Vedic rituals
is compared to a snake biting its own tail.
Orobor symbolism has been used to describe the Kundalini.
According to medieval yoga Kundalini, the divine power
(50:59):
Kundalini shines like the stem of a young Lotus.
Like a snake coiled round upon herself, she holds her tail in
her mouth and lies resting half asleep as the base of the body.
Also, some Hindu scholars use the Urobor's image as a
(51:22):
reference to the cycle of samsara, which is the cycle of
rebirth until you finally can reach enlightenment.
This is pretty deep. Next we're going to talk about
China. Babe, In ancient China, they
(51:43):
obviously have huge mega storiesabout serpents, really
specifically Dragons. But in a lot of depictions of
the Chinese Dragons, they reallyare more serpent like.
They have these dragon heads, but they have these long
Slytherin lanky bodies. They consider Dragons to be
benevolent. They're incredibly long and they
(52:04):
often have no wings. So this is giving serpent.
They embody cosmic harmony and control over rain, rivers and
fertility of the land. Farmers performed dragon serpent
rituals to ensure that their crops would grow.
There was even dragon dragon kings mythic serpent like rulers
(52:27):
of the Seas. Each ocean, lake or river could
have its own dragon king, often worshipped in temples for
example. Fishermen prayed to these
serpent dragon deities for safety and good harvest from the
South. Oh, from the sea.
Of course. There's also the Yellow dragon,
which is considered to be the father of all emperors in China
(52:50):
and the first emperor. He came down from the sky and
incarnated and bestowed the title of emperor upon the human
race, which is also reminding meof Tiamat.
Am I right? I I am right.
Also honorable mention to Nuwa who I've never heard of, who's
(53:11):
actually a serpent bodied goddess in the Chinese
tradition. Nuwa is a creator deity with a
human torso and a serpent body. She patched the sky with colored
stones. After cosmic catastrophe, she is
associated with order, rebirth and balance, again echoing
(53:31):
serpent as life and restorer. The Serpent Dragon in China
fuses earthly fertility with heavenly balance.
This yin and Yang principle, it represents the liminal bridge
between chaos and harmony. Hey little Pepper, this is
Annabelle here reporting live from Pepper World HQ.
(53:55):
If you enjoy the podcast it would help so much if you could
follow me, you could write a comment.
Give me 5 stars perhaps. Also, I would love to hear from
you. e-mail in at esotericaandnonsense@gmail.com.
I'd love to hear about your stories.
I'd love to hear about suggestions.
I would love to hear about any kind of weird, freaky thing that
(54:19):
comes to your mind. Also, if you would like to
support my podcast, you can follow me on Patreon.
It's Patreon back slash esoterica and nonsense.
I will also have a YouTube page coming at you so soon.
And I also sell merch. You can look up my merch.
It's in the show notes for everysingle episode as well as the
show notes for my show. I appreciate you so much.
(54:43):
I made this podcast to connect with cool freaky people like
you, so thank you so much. Yeah, bad.
Next up I want to get into Mesoamerica.
This shit is so fucking cool. In the Aztec and slash Meshika
(55:11):
tradition there are stories of Quetzalcoatl and in the minor
tradition there is Kukuliokan. What I find fascinating though,
and like this is just. I think this is true for like
all ancient culture. It's like when I'm doing a lot
of this research, I see these distinctions being made like oh
(55:34):
quetzalcoidal is from the Aztec slash Meshika tradition.
However, Quetzales which are birds are like all over the
Mayan world. It's like the symbol of like the
Mayan culture. And I have heard when I spend
(55:56):
time in Guatemala, people talking about Quetzalcoatl.
So I'm not an expert on this. I'm just doing raw research.
And I just want to remind everyone that a lot of these
sources are written about. They are written by white men
who really don't know anything. And that's why we're doing the
investigation ourselves. We're putting pieces together.
(56:18):
These white guys could never, you know what?
I'm you know what I'm saying, but basically Quetzalcoatl and
Kulkulia Khan are very similar deities and some argue is the
same deity with a different namefrom different cultures.
He is known as the Feathered Serpent and one of the most
(56:40):
important gods of the Americas. He symbolizes the union of
Earth, the serpent and sky feathers associated with Venus,
the morning star in the cycles of resurrection and cosmic
order. Myths say that he descended to
the underworld to retrieve bonesfrom the past worlds, sprinkling
(57:04):
them with his own blood to create humanity.
The story goes something like this.
Long, long ago, when the world was young, the gods gathered in
deal with Dil Tiwakan, the city of Gods.
(57:26):
Humanity had perished in a greatdestruction and the world was
barren. But the gods decided mankind
should be reborn. The task fell to Quetzalcoitl,
the Feathered Serpent, Lord of Wind, Knowledge and creation.
To bring forth life again, he had to journey into the
(57:48):
underworld, Mikkelan, ruled by Mikkelan Tequitli and MIT Tequi
Quatl. I'm doing my best.
The skeletal Lord and Lady of Death, Quetzalcoitl descended
through the 9 levels of Mikkelan, where shadows pressed
(58:11):
in and winds carried the cries of the dead.
At the deepest layer, he found the gods of death, who guarded
the bones of the previous creations of mankind.
Miklan Tektwitel spoke. If you can sound this conch, you
may take the bones, but the conch is hollow and silent as
(58:35):
death. Quetzalcoitel accepted.
He called upon the worms of the earth and bore holes in the
shell, and then the bees to swarm inside, buzzing until the
conch sounded. The death gods, tricked, handed
him the bones, but they set traps along the path.
(58:57):
As Quetzalcoitel fled upwards, he stumbled.
The bones fell and shattered, scattering across the underworld
floor. Desperate, he gathered what
fragments he could, carrying them back to the light of the
world above. Once he returned, Quetzalcoitel
placed the bones in a sacred bundle.
(59:18):
He bled on to them, giving his own essence to the bones.
From the union of Divine Blood, an ancient bone, humanity was
reborn. Fragile, broken, but alive.
And so the Meshika explained whyhumans come into many sizes and
(59:38):
shapes. We are made of mismatched bones
given life by the blood of the feathered serpent.
Beautiful. Also, it is said that many of
the pyramids around the ancient world in both the Aztec and
Mayan traditions, such as Chichen Itza, the Temple of
(01:00:00):
Kuliakan, were built to align with the equinoxes and the
solstices, creating the illusionof the giant serpent of lights
sliding down the stairs. I also think it's an honorable
mention to talk about the story that the Meshuka had about the
creation of what is now Mexico City.
(01:00:26):
There was a legend as they were nomadic that they would be a
place they would eventually settle.
And according to their prophecy that the place that they would
eventually settle would show itself when they saw an eagle
attacking a snake on a San Pedrocactus.
(01:00:49):
And so as the legend goes, for centuries this tribe of people
were nomadic, moving from place to place.
And eventually on this island inthis beautiful lake next to a
volcano, they saw an eagle attacking a snake on the San
Pedro cactus. And then of course, this is
(01:01:13):
where they decided to settle. This became their capital, which
is now known as Mexico City, less without the Mexico.
Also, if you haven't seen, the Mexican flag also has this
symbol of the eagle attacking the snake.
And I do think that is really interesting.
I think like using the lens of all the ancient cultures with
(01:01:37):
this, it does kind of feel like this idea of like the heavens,
the sky triumphing over the earth.
I also feel like it's kind of this idea, if you will, of
enlightenment because as the snake is being eaten and
(01:01:57):
absorbed by the eagle, it is then moving into the sky.
It is going from the ground intothe sky.
And then of course, as some physical cactus.
I mean, you're going to trip balls.
So to me, it does kind of feel like another allegory yet again,
of enlightenment. But that's just me.
What do you think? E-mail in babe, tell me your
(01:02:18):
thoughts. Also, unsurprisingly, the
natives of North America also have some stories about some
serpents. Also, I just want to say if you
if I am just butchering this because I'm doing my research
online and you know these stories better than me, please
e-mail and I would love to hear about you.
(01:02:39):
There's the whole point of this podcast.
I want to create a community of beautiful, magical people and I
want to hear your stories. I want to tell the stories that
you heard growing up. Educate me, babe.
I'm tired of these white guys writing history.
Please. So in the North American
traditions, there is a primordial snake known as the
(01:03:01):
Great Serpent, and this is a widespread concept.
Specifically among the Cherokee.They talk of the horned serpent
known as the Ukdena. It is a giant snake with crystal
in its forehead that could grantvisions and powers.
Hunters sought to find it at great risk.
(01:03:23):
In the Ojibwe culture, they describe the underwater serpent
Mischi beshu, the guardian of lakes associated with storms and
powerful medicine. There is an episode where I talk
about Mischi Beshu and I don't know which episode it is but get
lost in these episodes. Dead.
Also in the Hopi traditions, they tell of serpent deities
(01:03:45):
connected with underground waters, initiation ceremonies,
and spirits. Serpents appear in ceremonies as
guardians of water and as power,often feared but also revered as
teachers. MMM and I also like think
because they're almost always associated with water and water
(01:04:09):
is a symbol of emotions and femininity and they are often,
again, serpents are often associated with the creation of
the universe. This is like giving feminine
energy. It's giving the feminine primal,
fearsome power. Just saying.
Also in the South American traditions there are tons of
(01:04:33):
mentions of primordial serpents.Fun fact, if you haven't seen
it, go and watch Embrace of the Serpent.
It is the best film ever made. It will change your life.
Please watch that film. However, in the ancient Incan
tradition they have tales of Amaru.
Amaru is a double headed serpentwith one head pointing to the
(01:04:55):
heavens and one to the underworld.
Amaru is a symbol of liminality,the bridging of cosmic realms in
a lot of ink and art. The serpent Amaru appears in
textiles and carvings associatedwith magical slash, some
shamanic journeys. A lot of practitioners of of
(01:05:20):
magic invoked serpents during ritual drinking of ayahuasca,
where serpents often appear as guiding or devouring vision.
Serpents embody the transformation through death and
rebirth, journeying between worlds and acquiring wisdom.
In some Amazonian tribes they have stories of the universe
(01:05:45):
having been created by a Anaconda and the giant Anaconda
being the mother of the universe.
Interestingly, and I think without question across
cultures, serpents embody the liminal space, earth, water,
(01:06:09):
trees, and being able to move between realms.
Arguably some feminine energy. Humans everywhere evolved with
instinctive snake fear. This is a primal template, as
they call it, a fear of snakes to be able to because they, you
know, are formidable and they'reterrifying.
(01:06:31):
However, a lot of these myths transmute the sphere of snakes
into symbols of power and of wisdom, because they are.
And I also think it's important to remember that not every
culture, just because you fearedsomething doesn't make it bad.
You can respect its power and perhaps even aspire to attain
its power. Of course, there is this common
(01:06:58):
theme of this heroes slaying theagent of chaos, right?
We see this in the symbol of theeagle attacking the snake.
We see this in RAW attacking Apophis.
We see this in Apollo killing the Python.
(01:07:18):
However, beyond all these stories, and almost arguably
older than those stories, is thestory of the serpent as a
guardian of knowledge and a guardian of ancient wisdom.
They're often depicted with Infinity, the cosmic circle, and
(01:07:40):
as a healer. And that's really kind of like
my ultimate question, like when did this start happening as as a
human society? Because even though there are
cultures that are separated by oceans and mountains, as
humanity, we we share a collective subconscious.
(01:08:02):
We all are one. There is no individuality.
And I do think it's really telling that a symbol that was
often associated with enlightenment and power and
primordial creation became demonized.
I think that's something that wereally need to examine.
And in general, we just need to examine this idea that if
(01:08:24):
something is dangerous or more powerful than us, it is
something to be defeated. Like perhaps it's OK that we're
not the apex predator. Like I feel like we need to let
I'm now I'm addressing just men,but this idea of being like the
most powerful, why is that the goal?
What if as humans, our real purpose is to be caretakers to
(01:08:45):
the land, to appreciate the land, to fertilize the land, to
care for the land. And if it's our time, if a, if a
snake decides to take us, like maybe it's the snake's
prerogative. Maybe the snake really is an
ally and knows what it's doing. You know what I've said like
maybe I'm like getting a little bit too loose with this, but
(01:09:08):
this is just an idea. OK, Now I do want to talk about
some like modern, interesting, fun left field concepts.
As time has gone on, obviously many people have had their own
hot takes of these concepts. What are these ancient
primordial serpents? What do they mean?
(01:09:30):
And a theory by Thomas Hobbes known as Leviathan is something
worth mentioning and I find it very fascinating.
Thomas Hobbes wrote in 1651 his quote masterpiece.
(01:09:52):
We'll see about that known as Leviathan.
He borrowed its title and imagery from the biblical chaos
servant. Of course we know all about the
Leviathan. We're prose.
Instead of him seeing the Leviathan as a sea monster
threatening divine order, Hobbesenvisioned the state itself
being the political state as a Leviathan, an immense, almost
(01:10:16):
monstrous body composed of its citizens.
Essentially, he wrote this during the English Civil War
between 1641 and 1651. This was a time of chaos,
shifting power and civil breakdown.
He believed that without a strong central authority that
human life would descend into a quote war of every man against
(01:10:40):
every man, where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish
and short. So he provoked proposed that the
Leviathan as a state. So bear with me.
Basically he describes society as a social contract that people
(01:11:02):
surrender to. They surrender certain freedoms
to a sovereignty in exchange forsecurity.
It's giving fascism the sovereign, which would be a
monarch or a government, becomesthe Leviathan, a massive
artificial person whose body is composed of the individuals of
(01:11:22):
said society. Basically in his writings there
are illustrations of Leviathan with a giant crowned figure and
its body is made of countless tiny humans looming over the
land with sword and staff. Basically he's proposing that
(01:11:45):
the Leviathan in essence is a serpent of society, powerful,
immense, and potentially terrifying, but necessary to
hold back the chaos of human nature.
Hobbes consciously invoked the biblical serpent to describe the
government as a creature greaterthan anyone man binding chaos
(01:12:06):
through overwhelming authority. I mean, I feel like this is kind
of like a Freudian slip because granted, I do.
I'm kind of interpreting like the serpent as a symbol of
enlightenment for sure. But I do think that it's really
(01:12:29):
telling that like most Christians and modern society
has demonized the snake, right? So like this is kind of like a
deep idea, this idea of everyonecoming together to create a
thing larger than them, which I love.
And I do think is true. I don't believe in separateness.
I do believe we're all one. But then he has to go and again,
(01:12:49):
appoint a quote sovereign, a monarch.
So like this is kind of like in a weird way creating this like
weird self fulfilling prophecy that then society becomes this
primordial chaos agent. He's saying that to avoid chaos,
we have to become a Leviathan. But according to Christians, a
(01:13:10):
Leviathan is a chaos agent. You know what I'm saying?
So I have mixed feelings about this.
I do. I do think that as humanity, for
us to be able to Co create symbiotically, we have to like
align our consciousnesses. I think that will happen more
through meditation and psychic connection.
(01:13:31):
And when we can all do that, we've realized that we don't
really want to be murdering and killing.
We want to be coexisting and Co creating.
But I don't necessarily think that it makes sense to be
aligning each other and becomingone to only a point, like a
sovereign ruler. That seems incredibly silly to
me and counterproductive, don't you think?
(01:13:52):
I think so. Oh, Thomas Hobbes.
Oh. What will white men think of
next? Hi there.
Did you know that humans are made mostly of water?
Something like 80% or something?I don't, I don't remember the
stats. The water's crucial, you guys,
(01:14:16):
water's crucial. Have you been drinking water
today? I highly recommend it.
You can also add a little bit oflike pink salt or or Celtic salt
or some nice like Real Salt to your water to help your
electrolytes. You can do a cucumber infusion.
You could add some mint in there, some chia seeds like I'm
(01:14:39):
I'm inviting you to be creative here, but I'm also here to
remind you, drink your water, baby boy.
Drink your water really helps with the function of the nervous
system, the function of the bowels.
We're talking optimal functioning here.
Drink your water, baby. All in all, I have to side with
(01:15:06):
Suryuk Deswar on this. This idea that all animals are
allies, all animals are creations, manifestations of
nature, the truest nature which derives from the creator of the
universe. And that these symbols and these
(01:15:30):
concepts, these primordial serpents are symbols of power,
of beauty, and of magic. I have trouble seeing them as
symbols of evil, and I have trouble seeing them as an
allegory for unifying to then appoint a king.
(01:15:55):
I think Thomas Hobbes was close but incredibly off.
But one thing that I think is worth mentioning that across
cultures, serpents symbolize immortality and regeneration.
They shed their skin only to return transformed.
(01:16:16):
They embody the paradox of humanexistence, both fear and wisdom,
chaos and order, death and rebirth.
Perhaps the serpent never left the Garden of Eden.
Perhaps it coils still within us.
A guardian, a trickster, A healer.
(01:16:36):
Destroyer whispering secrets of transformation, daring us to
shed our own skin and step into the unknown.
How beautiful is that? Thank you so much for listening,
I really appreciate you and I would just love to leave you
with this idea that it is easy when you fear something to deem
(01:17:04):
it as evil. And what if something you feared
was something you were supposed to learn from?
I love you so much, I appreciateyou and I'll see you next time.
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