Legends From Colima & the Case of Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez

(00:00:00) Intro
(00:01:22) Listener Story
(00:03:09) Legends From Colima
(00:09:11) The Case of Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez
(00:52:24) Spooky Recs

In 2012, Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was an unarmed 16 year old Mexican team, walking home, when a border patrol agent fired into the Mexican side of the border and killed him. In this episode, Carmen shares three short legends from Colima, Mexico and Cristina shares the case of Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, this is Christina and Carmen and this is a
Spooky Tee. It's the podcast for all things is Spooky, Hunting, Places, Myths, Legends,
true crime in Latin America. I was going to say
we're back again, but again, we were back last week,
right right, right, Yeah, Yes, I have to warr everyone
ahead of time that my case today is gonna I

(00:22):
was angry. I've been angry since for a while now
months actually ten months now that I've just lived with
this anger inside of me and I want everyone else
to be angry with me. And so the case today
is triggering and it's angering and infuriating. So yeah, okay, okay.
At the end of the episode, she'd be like, what's

(00:43):
something that's making you made you laugh this week? And
I already have mine? You have you, Yes, but I'm excited, Okay,
I'm not looking forward to this listener story. Yes, before
we get into that a listener story. If you have
a story to send us, you can email as Spooky
Taes gmail dot com. You can DM us at any
of our socials. You can somebody on discord if you

(01:07):
don't want it on the public discord for everyone to
read it. Once you can just DM it to me
directly on Discord. I'm on there. You'll find me. What else,
the spooky hot line. I'm just going to tell you
the number is in the show notes. Yeah, there's a
lot of ways to get us your stories. We love
receiving them. Okay, let's do this. Okay, So today's listening
story comes from the one and only MJ. Shout out, MJ. Okay.

(01:30):
My aunt pass along this story on Easter. It's like
tradition in Latin America where weird stuff happens during the holidays,
well on sadoo, and that is a well known tradition.
It is, it is, and especially to MJ and her family. Yeah.
On top of that, also known as the Solidad or celebration.
That's Solidad the Maria in Spanish and Holy Saturday in English.

(01:52):
My aunt, who's a devout Catholic, went to Mass to
observe Holy Saturday. During Mass, my aunt heard groaning and talking,
but nothing that was audible. However, she said it sounded
absolutely horrifying. It makes me think of when her mom
said her story and how the and then would just
say you can't understand what aund Yeah, yes, yes, okay,

(02:15):
uh In this observance of Holy Saturday, the Christ statue
is taken to burial, and while this was happening, they
were surrounded by letusas who kept on swooping on the
Christ statue. My aunt was getting scared. There was a
sound of what she said was cackling outside. Thankfully, it
just ended there and nothing else strange happened. She asked

(02:36):
others if they heard what she heard, but only my
cousin did and everyone else attending didn't hear anything. As
things are going to shed all around the world, she
was worried it has something to do with that. Maybe
it was a like a sign omen yes, omen, that's
what the word I was looking for. Yeah, but yeah,
that was m Jane's story that happened to her aunt

(02:56):
on Eastern Definitely an omen yes if the omen the
first omen tamien is that you. What's your topic today? Today?
I bring you some legends from Kolima, Mexico. Shout out
Colima listeners. Okay, First up, we have the legend of

(03:19):
La Pierre Lisa, or the Smooth Boulder. In the heart
of the city of Kolima. It is said that there's
a formation of boulders with a smooth boulder, and I
forgot to paste a picture in here, but then I
wanted to see the smooth It's like a formation of
like rocks and then one a big rock in the middle.
But I call it a boulder because to me, a

(03:39):
boulder is a big rock, right, yeah, okay, yeah yeah.
So anyway, Yeah, there's this big rock in the middle
of all the rocks, and it's so big you can
kind of slide from it. Oh fun, and it's smooth.
And while that sounds like fun, don't be tempted, because
it is said that those who slide down Lapierre Lissa
become tied to Kolima forever and can never leave. Yeah.

(04:04):
They either fall in love Ekua Lima and stay there forever,
which doesn't sound too bad. That's not Yeah, I was
gonna say that's not too bad, or they die in Kolima.
That's bad. That's bad. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah. And
so I mean, the rocks supposedly are still there, and
it's like a tourist challenge to slide down and see
what happens. All right, Well, you either fall in love

(04:25):
or you die. If I ever find myself with Kalima,
I'm gonna try it. We'll see which one happens. Okay.
And next up we have the enchanted snake from the
caves or las. Between the cities of Kolima and Comatlan.
There there are some caves known as Lesqubitas, and it
is said there's a hitting treasure there guarded by a

(04:48):
giant snake. And it's also said that stranger whispers and
presents can be heard and felt inside of the caves. Yeah,
that's all I have for there. I forgot. I was
going to look to see if there was anyone actually
that went and experienced a story from there, and never
got to do that. So that's all I have for
Thesipeaa Laskitas okay. And next up we have La Casa,

(05:11):
the La colina or the house on the hill. It
sounds familiar, does it. It's in the city of Amdia. Well, okay,
go on, I might have shared this a long time ago.
So in the city of a Media south of Kolima,
there's an abandoned house on top of a hill. It
is said that a foreign family was killed in the
home and then thrown into the water wheel located in

(05:33):
their property. Very unfortunate for them and it said that
come nightfall, the house no longer seems abandoned, and it
looks like there's a party going on inside the house.
And witnesses have reported walking by the home at night
and you know, seeing the lights on, hearing music, and
then they're invited into the house to party. Come morning,

(05:55):
the house is once again in ruins, full of bats,
and two the party guests horror. They realized that they
were partying with dead people. Not fun. Yeah, fun, yeah,
not fun at all. Okay, Next up we have Laguna

(06:17):
la Maria in Comala, the city of Kamala. Does that
sound samiliar to you? No, No, I love a laguna story. Yeah,
so in English Lake Maria. So in Komala, there was
once a couple named Jorge and Maria. Maria was a
jealous woman while Jorgie was a party animal. That's a
bad combination, Yeah it is. He loved to go to

(06:39):
other pueblos to find fiestas, so he was basically lachna. Yeah. Yeah, Anyway,
on one occasion, he didn't come home for various days,
and Maria she was pissed, very yeah, she was probably pissed.
She was so pissed. Yeah, properly pissed. Yeah. So, yeah,
so she was so pissed that she called on Satanas himself.

(07:00):
Oh that escalated for helpically, that's a big step there. Yeah.
I don't know how she got from A to B. Yeah,
B being the devil, right, B being Satan. Yeah, so
she offered the devil her soul if you could assure
her that Quodha would love her for eternity. Oh and

(07:21):
some more days passed and Koti finally went back home,
but he didn't see Maria anywhere. He looked all over
the house and then the neighborhood, and then he asked
a grandero and his neighbors for help. So soon they
all started looking for Maria. Help with his neighbors, they
were hacking away at the bushes, and so they got
to the lake. And at the lake, they were surprised

(07:41):
to find a tomb, but they were even more surprised
to see Maria rice from set tomb. Oh yeah, yeah,
that would be surprising to any one. Oh yeah, and
Maria after rising from tomb, like like Jesus, Yeah, she
floated to the middle of the lake until she fell.

(08:02):
Like Jesus, she walked on water, well floaded, she floated
to the middle of the lake and then she fell
in and went under the water and just you know,
stayed there. And I didn't see any more information aut
you that. But since then the lake is called the
Maria and it said that Maria's tomb is still there.
Did she do anything? Not that I found or I

(08:22):
didn't came looking after I saw this one story. Interesting,
like it seems like her the old Devil didn't work
out at all. She just died. Yeah, and that's why
you don't make deals with the devil. When the nights
are quiet, they can hear Maria crying from the lake.
Then that's it. Wow? Is that all? Yeah, that's all

(08:44):
I have? Wow, Okay, there was more like there was
the the Bridge. Eight in did an episode on the bridge.
But yeah, yeah, okay, with that, we'll take an ad
break and we'll be back with my very depressing to
crime story that I want all of us to be
mad with me together, page together. Yeah, okay, and we're

(09:11):
back ready to be angry. And yeah, I mean I
warned everyone this is very depressing. So we're just gonna
get and depressing and infuriating. We'll just jump right into this.
So Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was a sixteen year old
Mexican teenager living in Nogles, Mexico, and he was a

(09:31):
very happy kid. He loved his mom, his sisters, friends, family.
He liked being at home. When he wasn't at home,
just hanging out, then he was playing basketball because he
loved basketball. That was his other favorite thing to do
and his His mom describes him as a good kid
who again loved her so much. He also really liked
cloudy days, chocolate cookies, and spending time with his sisters

(09:56):
and he as you know, at sixteen, he would tell
people that he wanted to be a soldier in service
country and when his grandma would tell them, they say
she didn't like that because soldiers were trained to kill people.
He would tell her, no, Grandma, there's also good soldiers,
not all of them are bad. But I want to
be there because I want a career. When I finished
with that, I'll stop being a soldier and dedicate myself
to my career. That's my goal. Just you know, wholesome,

(10:20):
like yeah, like a sweet kid. Yeah. He dreamed of
writing in a plane. That was one of his biggest
dreams and his mom promised him that she would take
him to Guadalajara. They had a trip plan for a
family first communion up there, and they were going to fly.
And before once, this flight was scheduled and they were
ready to go, and he was so excited. He would

(10:41):
ask her if you could see the clouds in a plane,
and she would answer, you'll see the clouds under you.
Did I cry when I read that, yes, of course,
because sadly he never got to get on a plane
and see the clouds around him. His life was tragically ended.

(11:02):
On October tenth, twenty twelve. So Hose was walking on
a road along the border in Nogalle, Sonora, as border
patrol agents and US police officers swarmed the US side
of the border and they had received a nine will
one call about suspicious activity. So this suspicious activity was
that two men were seen climbing down the fence into

(11:26):
the US side with bundles taped to their backs, and
police officers responding to the suspicious call saw the men
and they believed that these two men were carrying bundles
of marijuana. Marijuana. I feel like I said that, we're
the first time I didn't notice, Okay, well maybe I didn't,
So the two officers I got their first called for backup.
That's when Border patrol and US Customs agents swarmed the

(11:49):
US side of the border. So all these officers, police,
Border Patrol, US Customs agents, they saw the two men
climbed the eighteen foot fence back into Mexico. And when
they saw them climbing back, they were empty handed. Nothing
was on their back. As these two men reached the
Mexican side of the fence the border, someone began throwing rocks,

(12:11):
and so officers on site all reported a similar story.
Rocks were flying through the air and then they heard
the sound of gunfire. In the middle of all this
taking place, Jose was walking home from playing basketball when
the two men that climbed back into Mexico ran past him.

(12:32):
And it was at that moment that Border Patrol agent
Lonnie ray Swartz ran up to the fence, pointed his
gun through the gaps and staid fence and fired twelve times.
Ten of the twelve rounds hit sixteen year old Josse
in the back. He died thirty feet from the border fence.

(12:55):
I am just already one because I remember this story
from back then and it happened, Yeah, but also what
what is the point, like why other than senseless violence,
racism and hatred? What other than those things? What would
shooting while people are running away? What would that accomplish? Yeah,

(13:16):
like you're going to kill people on the other side
of the border. That's not your country. They left, they
didn't come in. It is not what you're trying to
event solved, shoot them, right what like okay, so you
shot them? And then what because they're not on your side,
your supposed side, right if you're made up man made
you know, border exactly, So why shoot them? Like you

(13:39):
can't help them, Not that you would in the first place,
Like your job is to devent entry into the US,
right and to supposedly protect it and like prevent drugs. Well,
they climbed back over. Also, they didn't have the bundles
that were reported. Also they were like empty handed, right
you said, yeah when they said when they were climbing
back they were empty yeah yeah, So like why yeah?

(14:04):
So in the initial reports, Border Patrol suggested that Hostel
was among the rock throwers. Even if he was, Yeah,
but he wasn't because witnesses disproved that They again verified
that he was only walking home from playing basketball. And
I want to note that the supposed gunfire that they

(14:24):
all agreed they heard it was they never found a source.
It was not identified because it wasn't real. They were
lying to protect each other because there are a bunch
of murderous, a murderous pack of animals. You know, he
can compare them to even though animals don't kill, just
the kinder. Yeah. Yeah, so again this gunfire, it wasn't real.

(14:45):
So in the following days from the shooting and killing
of a Mexican teen, US Customs and Border Protection issued
the statement quote. After verbal commands from agents to cease
assaulting the agents with rocks were ignored. One agent then
discharged his service firearm. One of the subjects appeared to

(15:06):
have been hit. And I smile because that's like the cacacity,
the audacity they the typical statement trying to steer free
your faults, sounding neutrals is what they all do. Like
the subject was hit by gunshots by you, bitch, you

(15:27):
shot my gun because they were throwing rocks at me,
But fucking who, you could have just left and you
didn't have to get a fand there while they were mosquito.
I don't know, uh, so they're throwing rocks. Okay, leave, leave,
take a few steps back, and then guess what the
hate you, you dumb bitch, like I don't understand, I

(15:48):
don't and uh again always the passive ship subject was
hit by gunfire, the hospital explo but no one knows
how stupid. Yeah, anyway, so that's what they yeh, that's
what they put out. And again the quote unquote subject

(16:12):
who was he was unarmed. He was walking home. He
was on the Mexican side of the border, and he
was sixteen. He was walking on a street called Caye Internacionale.
He just passed a doctor's clinic. The sign like that
said like auxilio that's where he was, like hey, which
is like just the I don't know, the imagery, Yeah, horrendous.

(16:32):
And then to just you know, die literally thirty feet
from this man made border like and so at first
the agency of course defunded their employees, stating that he
was acting in self defense. How I'm not sure, because
he ran up to the fence after the man had
already climbed back into Mexico. That's what I'm saying. You basically,
you were asking for it. You were asking for rocks.

(16:54):
To be thrown at you because you went and chased
these people, but they were already back in Mexico. Yeah,
but you know they were going to defend their employee
of course. Sign but they did state that this incident
would be investigated, but understandably so Hosay's mom was outraged

(17:15):
and sued, and so then the agency kind of backed
down from defending him and saying like, yeah, he can
face criminal charges. And Lonnie Swartz's lawyer said that although
the shooting was tragic, Swarts could not be held liable
and urged the judged to dismiss the case because the
US Constitution did not apply to foreign citizens on foreign soil.

(17:36):
What does that have to do with Okay, I the constitution,
but also you killed someone. Yeah, Because the Rodriguest family
lawyer and legal team, they were obviously for their amending justice,
but they were arguing, well, First, their lawyers stated that

(17:57):
the barbatual agent, Lonni Swartz, if he's a lowed to
get away with this, will have acted with total impunity, Yeah,
which is what they're used to doing, right, and that
they wanted, uh, the Department of Homeland Security to start
being transparent about their agent's actions because they're one of
the most violent agencies. Truly, they really are. They really are.

(18:19):
It's horrendous. Like I fear they are worse than the cops.
Then you know, they're worse than the LA sheriff Sheriff's Department. Yeah, LAPD. Yeah, Yeah,
they're bad. They're really bad. So the LA will team

(18:39):
for the family stated that agents Swarts violated both the
fourth and First Amendments of the Constitution. Yeah, Okay, I
was wondering they were bringing the competition into this. Yeah,
but I'm like, besides that, like you killed somebody, like yeah,
and just because you you killed someone across the other
side of this again made up border you know. Yeah,

(19:02):
the legal team. The legal team said the agent Swords
violated both the fourth and First Amendments of the Constitutions
Constitution because he shot Arodriguez for no reason and that
in the right circumstances, the US Constitution does ground protections
to foreigners in the case of literally shooting into another
country from a border, right right, like you shot him

(19:23):
from your side from the United States. And that was
their main argument is that he the border patrol agent,
was on US soil when he did this crime. Right,
he killed a teenager. And it did take three years
after the killing of Fosse for charges to be brought
against Leni Swartz, but he was charged in twenty fifteen
with second degree murder. And although up to that date

(19:47):
there had been several very similar incidents of border patrol
agents shooting into Mexico and killing people, he was the
first to be charged with something related to a killing
that took place across the US Mexico world. The first.
Because they've been they've been doing this since they made
the border up. You know, there's a reason they think
it's okay. There's a reason he thought it was perfectly

(20:07):
fine to run up and shoot into their common practice. Yes,
and details during the trial revealed that the account I
already shared at the top of the episode, it was
corroborated by several witnesses. So like, No, Jose did not
throw anything. But even if he had thrown something, that

(20:28):
does not warrant murder. No, just like if you're at
a protest, it doesn't warrant you getting hit by a car. Okay, right,
I am not even entertaining these arguments. No, me neither.
I've been You guys are frothing at the mouth and
horny to to run people over like there's I think
they're horny for violence, like they get off on this ship.

(20:52):
Something can I tried for one second again, you know?
The the him throwing rocks was disproved by several witnesses.
He was proven to just be walking through the area. Also,
Border patrol refused to hand over civiliance tape of the shooting.
They I don't know. I don't know because it's not

(21:13):
an order from a core like I don't understand. I
have no idea. But yeah, they never fucking want Yeah,
they never showed it. They still have never shown it.
Another important note that came from the trials is that
the fence on the Mexican side of the border sits
on a steep hill. So not only is the fence
eighteen feet in height itself, but the hill is like
another eight feet, So the total height of all this

(21:35):
together is almost thirty feet. So in order for Hostai
to throw rocks that would have reached the agents in
a way that would be dangerous to them, he would
have to he would have had to throw so far
like forty to fifty feet in the air and make
sure it goes over the fence to reach them, which
was like, come on, he's not a fucking baseball pitcher,
Like yeah, but again, he wasn't throwing rocks. He was

(21:58):
just walking. It was not very clear who through the rocks,
if they had, I don't know who knows. Anyway, I
think the whole thing, I don't think I'm inclined to
believe that agents insisted that the rock throwing is very
dangerous there. It's so dangerous. Sure, I'm sure it hurts

(22:19):
to be hit with the rock. That they have helmets,
I don't know. I don't know if they have helmets
or not, but sure, I guess if your head's not protected,
you know, it could cause damage, maybe even kill you.
But again, if you just move away from the perimeter
where the rocks are being thrown. Especially, yeah, especially in
this situation where the people that were they were trying

(22:40):
to catch already were like not in the US, right, Like,
what are you so worried about? Yeah? Cueto, president of
the Tufson Chapter of the Border Patrol Union, the follow bitch,
so the following about the incident. Quote, A lot of
us have been involved in rocking. I've been involved in rockings.

(23:02):
You have individuals border patual agents. They have to make
split second life and death decisions. No, you don't shut up. Unfortunately,
with social media, it's very easy to Monday morning quarterback somebody,
What the fuck is that? Monday morning quarterback somebody. It
gets easy for you to be like you say, you
would have done different in the situation, But it's very simple.

(23:25):
Don't go up to the fucking fence after your targets
whatever you want to call that, turn around and go
back to your stupid little cars and leave the people
you were trying to actually hand it gone. They're in Mexico. Yeah,
it's now the goal, Like they're not in the States anymore. Yeah.
Why are you trying to shoot someone across the border? Right?

(23:47):
Because you're a violent bitch. Yeah. So, but you know what,
this is us Monday morning quarterbacking. Okay, and you know what, yeah,
I will tell them how to do their job. Quick,
your job job, You just kill yourself. You just want
to kill Mexicans and people who are trying to cross
the border because of ship that the United States did

(24:09):
to their countries. Mind you, you just want to attack
vulnerable people, rape women, exploit children, and kill people that's
all you want to do, So just fucking quit. Just quit. Yes,
no one is forcing you to have that job. Just
fucking know, right, you're too scared, then quit. You don't
have to work. If you're so afraid of your violent job,

(24:33):
then quit your fucking violent job. Okay, I'm done. No,
but yeah, no, but yeah, okay, So I breathe life
and decisions quit okay. Forensic investigators from Mexico testified the

(25:00):
officer emptied his service hand gun, reloaded, and kept firing.
What you think about that? That's not come on anyway.
The medical examiner for the Miami Dade County in Florida
stated the same quote Swartz and I was gonna say Stwarts.

(25:24):
Swarts first shot likely hit the boy in the middle
of his back as he was running. How about you
don't shoot people in their back while they're running away,
Like come on, like, don't shoot into a country that's
not yours. Exactly. If you want to kill people, do
it in your own country, and then how about you
just don't. Right, No, After both the prosecution and the

(25:48):
defense argue their points, there were some facts that were
agreed upon. So apparently the two men the reason that
they were seeing with nothing on their back when they
were climbing back into they dumped the things. But they cares,
I mean a little bit of marijuana. Who fucking cares?
I don't care. I don't give a fund. Also, there
have been so many cases of border gradual agents joining

(26:09):
a drug rings where they are also smoking on drugs. Yeah,
so who can actually engage in a lot of crime? No, truly,
Like we were saying, they are the most violent and
like crime committeeing agencies out there, Like there's that's a literal,
there's documentation. We're not just saying this because we don't
like them. That's true. We don't like them. I hate them,

(26:30):
That part is true. But just because we don't like
them doesn't mean we're making up the fact that they
commit a lot of crimes. Yeah, because they do. They do. Yes, So, yes,
these two people did have marijuana bundles that they dropped
when they ran or climbed back over into the Mexican
side of the border, and three people on the Mexican

(26:52):
side were throwing rocks. Jose was not one of them.
But again, even if he had been throwing rocks, it
doesn't justify him being killed for it. Exactly. Yeah. And
then officer Schwartz give an emotional testimony. Again, I don't
give a real emotions. I don't believe he testify that
he was frightened and he fired his gun after one

(27:14):
of his agents and police dog had been hit by
a rock. How about you turn around to leave? Literally,
did you try steps back? Like? All you had to
do again is move away from the area where the
rocks are falling because it can only go stain distance, right,
And all you had to do was fucking leave. Yeah,

(27:36):
he said he thought to himself, this is gonna stop.
Somebody's gonna get hurt. No, I don't think, he said,
probably did try to really really play up, you know,
the acting for the stand. Yeah, so he does himself,
this is gonna stop. Someone's gonna get hurt. And then
he aimed at quote two shadowy figures. So again, you
could have just enturn around and left. But he what

(27:58):
was he aiming at? He shot sixteen year old in
the back who was running away from the incident. He
wasn't even throwing rocks. So again, if you're shooting blindly
without looking at who's actually throwing the rocks, and again,
throwing rocks is not something that warrants killing. Just leave,
just leave. Yeah. Also, that doesn't sound like a trained,

(28:21):
logical response to rock throwing. This sounds like a response
of an emotional, scared person who maybe shouldn't have had
a gun in the first place. Yeah. Yeah, And that's
the problem that they're just going around shooting people because
they were scared, right, because their jobs are so dangerous,
when in fact they're the dangerous ones. I actually have
a quote about that later henceforth. Here he is the

(28:45):
one that kills one right right, Yeah, but he was
scared of the rocks. Okay, after the shooting, things went
gray and he threw up. That is what he said.
The defense argued, Yes, a gun is more powerful than
a rock. Agents are authorized to respond in certain situations.
That's the mindset, that's the way they're trained, and that's
the problem. I don't I want to say they're not

(29:07):
authorized to shoot across the border into shoot across the
border into Mexico. No, So this is not even one
of those situations where authorized where carmen are rocking changes that, okay,
are rocking. I refuse to call this a rocking, Okay rocking.
I'm properly pissed. They argued that smugglers use children to

(29:32):
throw grapefruit sized rocks from rooftops to distract agents and
then it's super dangerous and just believe you don't have
to engage in this. I don't understand. Do it's a rocking?
They like, did you have no jurisdiction Mexico? If these
were smugglers, they have not. You have not caught them.
The act was smuggling children into the border. They are

(29:56):
in Mexico. You have no jurisdician Mexico. Shut the fuck
up this whole argument. It's like non applicable here. I
don't understand. I don't. Then they said that there had
been a sharp spike in assaults on agents during those
years that the crime occurred, not the crime, They're not

(30:17):
gonna call out a crime, but like the shooting when
the shot happened, Yeah, the assault, whatever, the incident where
a gun was fired into Mexico and a boy lost
their life. A boy was hit by these gun or
sorry this these shots that made themselves into Mexico, that's
what happened, right, So yeah, But an investigation by the
Intercepts found that board patrol manipulated these statistics and that

(30:40):
the job had actually been at its safest when the
shooting occurred. Of course, of course, it's just like when
cops were like, oh, you have to make life into decisions.
They may and then they do all these the most
safest job. Yeah, like what was more dangerous? Like I
don't know, being a truck driver, being a text driver,
I don't remember, but I guess what was not number
one on that list? Fucking law enforcement, fucking liars. Yeah.

(31:05):
The officer faced twenty years to life if he had
been convicted of second dream murders. Oh my god, I
can't read. If he had been convicted of second degree murder.
But after three days of deliberation, the jury was deadlocked.
They found him not guilty of second degree murder, and
they could not reach a verdict on the two lesser
manslaughter charges, so a new trial was going to happen. Sorry,

(31:29):
I just had to laugh from disbelief. I like, I
know this because you know, I remember I was keeping
up with this because I was fucking pissed, pissed. I
was just as pissed back then as I am right
now as we are talking about this. But I'm like,
what is wrong with these jurors like, you guys are stupid. Yeah, whoever,
you know, they were quite a three. Yeah, you guys

(31:51):
are stupid. And I hope that you and they think
that borderpittal was actually producting them. So of course they
weren't going to see this on the incident that it
was right. But I'm gonna save it. Okay, I'm cutting
you off. Then I'm just kidding. I cut myself off,
that's I know. When the verge was announced, So's grandmother
left the court room in tears. And because the jury

(32:14):
couldn't agree on the lesser charges, it was a mistrial.
There was going to be a new trial to figure
out these lesser charges. Araserriro Driguez. Jo Say's mom said
the following quote. What I want to ask the American
authorities is what is your law? Then? What does justice
mean to you? What could be more important than justice?

(32:36):
They know they have murders working for them, and they
still pay and protect them. I don't want my son
to be forgotten. I want people to keep talking. I
will tell you what their law and justice is. It's
protecting whiteness at all costs. Yeah, and capitalism. And again,
by whiteness, we don't mean all white people. Okay, no, no,
get mad, We mean the system of colonialism and white

(32:59):
supremacy and not all white people. Foll under that belief. Okay,
we're not hashtag not all whites. Okay, again, we have
white friends. The next trial took place November twenty eighteen,
and this is where Lennie Schwartz was acquitted on the
charge of involuntary manslaughter. But then yes, but then the
jury could not reach a verdict on the charge of

(33:21):
voluntary manslaughter and federal prosecutors decided to not pursue a
third trial. And so he was he was in charge
with anything, or he wasn't. He was acquitted of everything.
I mean, there's just another case of a discussing person
getting away with their discussing violence. Yeah, And as of

(33:42):
twenty twenty, he was still facing a civil rights lawsuit
from the ACLU brought but on behalf of Araceli Josa's mother.
And at first I was like, I guess it's still
pending in the US Supreme Court. But then the more
I searched, I found that February twenty six, twenty twenty,
a US Supreme Court five decision took away any hope
for this civil law to go anywhere, because in this

(34:07):
February twenty six, twenty twenty five four decision, the Supreme
Court ruled to deny the family of Sehio arian Ernandez
Guerreca the right to sue Border Patrol again over another shooting,
very similar circumstances, but a separate shooting. And because they
ruled that five to four decision, now it's set of

(34:27):
precedent that no one on the Mexican side of the
border could sue Border Patrol for shooting them. This is
absolutely disgusting because the Border Patrol is one of the
most violent gangs in the United States. Yeah, they perpetrate violence.
They pretend to protect the United States when they are

(34:48):
actually the ones perpertrating violence, sexual assault, killing, murders, you
know what I mean. Like, yeah, we should be afraid
of them, undred percent. They they are in the streets
kidnapping people. So yeah, yeah, but even before that, there's
a very very long, detailed record of them committing crimes,

(35:10):
them abusing people, them murdering people, them shooting into Mexico.
Like the list goes on and on and on and on.
It's literally like, yeah, and we're also like talking about
violence to children, like, you know, some people care more
about that. Obviously that's a terrible thing, you know what

(35:30):
I mean? They only care about certain children, right, I
don't even know why I'm pretending like they care about
They don't care about undocumented children migrants. Please know about
the trials at Seli who says mom said quote. Since
the beginning, we saw how the judge on the entire
jury was on the murderer side. They were all American.
They were all racist. The way they saw us was

(35:51):
as if we were bugs. They gave us dirty looks.
The murderer had a lot of privileges that we never did.
He sat there with his water, with his coffee, with
his computer, reading books. If we wanted to, we weren't
allowed to look at him. We would get in trouble
if we looked at him. Lannie Swartz has so many
benefits that we knew what the verdict was going to be.
There was a lot of racism. I feel like even

(36:12):
the jury was bought. They were all no offense gringos.
They were all blonde, white people, pure Americans. There was
not a single Mexican sitting there. And this was during
a democracy. Now interview, and she also left this message
like the Democracy Now hosts I forget her name, but
if people don't watch that, it's a really informative show.

(36:35):
But the host asked her, like, do you have a
message for the people of the US about your son?
And she said to put themselves in my shoes. People
who are fathers and mothers, I think are the people
who may be able to understand. To have your son
murdered and the way mine was is a horrific pain
that I do not wish upon anyone. To the jurors,

(36:56):
I would to ask them, are you at peace with
the decision you made? I would ask if their conscience
is clean? But the decision they made at the trial,
they showed them a mannequin representing my son, showing them
exactly where the bullets entered his body. He was shot
in the head and Lanni Swartz continued to shoot him.
To the jurors, the judge, and the murderer himself, I

(37:17):
asked them, how do you sleep at night? How are
you at peace with yourself? After you murdered my son.
I had hoped that Hosan Antonio's case would have justice
and that would help stop all of this. How is
it possible that Mexican children are being murdered and the
American people don't do anything, not even the Mexican people

(37:37):
do something or the Mexican government. For me, both trials
were a joke. They just made me angry. One two
very long trials just to declare this man not guilty.
On one occasion, I overheard a Border Patrol agent saying
that the agency was ready to spend money on five,
even ten trials just like this one. This is the
anger we have. We are also angry at Mexico. Mexico

(37:59):
is not strong enough to demand the extradition of this murderer.
My son was murdered on Mexican territory and Lenni Swartz
has to pay. We will not stop fighting. I don't
like to give interviews, but I know I have to.
I want Jusantno's name to be remembered. I want people
to know he was murdered by a Border Patrol agent
and nothing was done about it. We need your support.

(38:21):
That is why I stand in front of this camera,
in front of this mike, demanding justice. End quote man
and yeah even like because of the way these like
superpowers are set up, the Mexican government tried. They tried
to be like, hey, you can't chew people here, but
what can they do? That's what I'm saying, Like, Okay,
so border patrol. One thing which is still completely wrong

(38:46):
is you know, border patrol herd existing one. Yes, I
agree with that, But one thing is somebody crossing into
the border, which again I am fine with. I wish
there was open borders like they're used to be right right.
I'm not saying that out of nowhere. The borders used
to be open and it was not a problem. There

(39:06):
was no supposed invasion of Sorry, really, huh. There's a
clip on TikTok that did you send it to me?
I probably send it to you. When it's this guy
that he's like, he's like quoting, He's like, we don't
want open No one's saying we don't want open borders.
And he's like, I'm saying that. I can say that.
Actually we have said that. I don't know if he

(39:27):
said it here on this book, hetaells I know he
said it over at Antonia's unknown. If anyone disagrees with that,
you can fuck right off get into the fucking space.
I don't care. I don't care go somewhere else to
draw line and stay there. That's your border bridge. What
are the things we used to say? But yeah, it's

(39:51):
just ridiculous. But anyway, again, the ground point is, yes,
there should be open borders. I approve of that. But
besides that, one thing is somebody supposedly, you know, crossing
into through this illegal not illegal, this made up border,
and then being hurt by border patrol once they cross

(40:13):
into United States, which again I don't think they should.
But that's one thing, right, which again to us is
still wrong. It should be wrong. Yeah, yeah, but that's
one thing, right. An entirely different thing is border patrol
shooting people in Mexico killing people in Mexico. Yeah, that's
not your country, bitch. Yeah, And like what, you have

(40:34):
no right to kill anyone at all? But what right
do you have to kill somebody in Mexico? And how
do you hold these people accountable? Like now they have
basically impunity, which they always had actually, but now it's
official with the Supreme Court decition, Just like the Supreme
Court decision that said that the police don't actually protect us,
that is into law. People, So stop believing that the

(40:56):
police protect us they don't. They are here to protect
property and the rich, not us, not the people. Port
Patrol is not here to protect the supposed border of
the United States. They are here to enact violence and
maintain white supremacy in the United States. Yes, and like
I have been saying this whole time, Port Patrol has

(41:18):
a worse record of excessive use of lethal force of
any police agency. They now officially, with this US Supreme
Court decision, they can just continue killing anyone, including US
citizens or any nationality, in cross border shootings without any
fear of ever being held accountable. They are not going
to be held accountable. They can just do whatever the

(41:38):
hell they want. And of course, imagine this being reversed.
Imagine Mexican police shooting a US citizen in the US.
Imagine imagine they would be like, they're evading, they're invading
Mexico's and a Meadias and they would be freaking right
about it. Yeah, KBI and KBI is and we're going

(41:59):
to station and just excellent organization. Where did I the
Keynote Border Initiative. They have all these statistics on their
website and also you can donate to them. They provide
you know, assistance for immigrants. But let me screwll back up. Okay.
KBI tracks seventy eight complaints filed on behalf of migrants
between twenty ten and twenty twenty two. And of these

(42:24):
seventy eight complaints, ninety five percent of them led to
no proper investigation or disciplinary action. That's almost all of them.
My god, impunity. Hm. Thirty five percent of cases were
recorded in a database with no action taken. Twenty five
percent of cases died, they go, they go, they went nowhere. Okay,
Only one percent of complaints resulted in disciplinary action. That

(42:48):
is embarrassing, like nine percent. No law enforcement agencies should
be allowed to act with as much impunity. Yeah. Also,
in some cases it took two years to receive any
response orno acknowledgments of said complaint. Two years if they
receive a response, and yeah, it's like you were just saying,

(43:12):
they shouldn't be allowed to be acting like this. They
shouldn't be allowed to be doing this. But now they
can with even more with the whole US state government
behind them. Yeah. Yeah, Now we can have people that
are contracted with eyes who allegedly or might possibly be

(43:33):
the people that are pardoned for interruction. Yeah, yeah, and
or bounty hunters, right, because there was a video around
February of this year, twenty twenty five, I was going
around about a bounty hunter saying like, well, what are
you going to do to stop us? They're offering us money,
Like like, what are you going to do to protect
the people out of some sort of like hearing. They're

(43:55):
like arguing like, if you don't want us to go
after people, give us more money than what they're off
for us. Yeah and yeah, I mean now we've seen
countless and her countless stories and seen videos of people
being kidnapped by masked men, uh, even women, people pretending

(44:16):
are not pretending but refusing to to id themselves when
that's supposed to be the law. But they're they're they
know they're above the law. They are they are border patrol.
Yeah yeah, and uh, I mean I feel like we've
said this, but like this violence that you know, we're
now seen in you know, the US proper and also

(44:39):
being brought upon citizens of the United States has always
been a thing towards undocumented people, especially people like you know,
Jose who's killed in Mexico by a border patrol agent.
Like this type of violence is not new, and like
I need people, I need people to see that these
systems shouldn't exist because this, this is what they do.

(45:01):
And like, yeah, now it's like now people are being
afraid because it's happening in US streets. Yeah, but this
has always been a thing. This is their method of
operating islands, and so yeah, they shouldn't exist. I agree.
And I just wanted all of us to be mad

(45:21):
together because again I've been in a state of perpetual anger. Yeah,
over all this, and also I want to recommend if
you want to be even more mad again, all over mad,
mad whatever, stay mad at Border Patrol. Behind the Bastards

(45:43):
has older episodes that they recently re released altogether yeah
together as one about border Patrol, and there's some horrendous shit.
He mentioned this case right towards in the rear. He
might not, but he talks about other cases because again,
the Border Patrol has a long, long, long history of

(46:04):
enacting violence. And he mentioned that guy was his name.
We did an episode on him. Wait was it here?
I know we mentioned in Barlain, Yeah, Harlan B. Carter
and him shooting Ramon. We talked about it here. For
the true crime portion, and then we talked about his
involvement with Bord Patrol, and then the NRA over added

(46:25):
sort of sent on. Yes, yes, but in that episode
of Behind the Bastards, Robert gets into more crimes against
humanity basically that the Border Patrol has done, and he
talks about horrendous, horrendous things that they've done, including sexual

(46:47):
abuse against children children, including a case where a serial
killer was hired by or work for Border Patrol, which
we will cover, Yeah, including how Border Patrol agents who
did quote excellent during operation went back, how they were

(47:09):
sent to Latin America to train death squads who brought
terror upon a Latin America, so say our people, but
it wasn't just unset, it was literally all over Latin America. Yeah, yeah,
and then they want to be mad at the people
who then come migrate over to the United States because

(47:32):
of violence caused not just violence, but like unrest caused
by the United States. Yeah, and that is one thing
that has been really has been pissing me off. And
I've been collecting screen shows just in case. I don't
know if I'll make a video or not, because I've
seen other videos about it. I didn't repost them, so
the information is out there anyway, you know. And we

(47:54):
have also again talked about it, and so have many people.
But there's people arguing, like sayan commenting all over like
why don't they just it's like a few different things.
Why don't they just fix your own countries? Maybe a
Mexico except do you want to live in Mexico? And
so any Latin American country? Why does the why is

(48:14):
the United States responsible for? What is it? I saw?
It just pissed me off because I seem like a
various excuse me comments like that, but the way this
specific person worn't it just pissed me off. Another another
dumb comment. You need good leaders that won't sell their enemies,

(48:37):
won't sell to their enemies. Okay, here's another one. Okay,
so serious questions. Should America have any boards at all?
Or it should just be a free for all? What's
the ideal? Why does every other country have a right
to sovereignty and national identity? But America should just be
the world's sep kitchen. You know why? Because America is
the world's terror because they have enacted violence all over

(48:59):
all over the world, because they have destabilized countries all
over the world because they have caused civil wars all
over the world. And you know what happens when other
leaders try to stand up to United States and improve
their countries, they're killed. Yeah, so that's why, and that
is why, yes we do oh so yes, the United

(49:21):
States does oh something to the people that they have
harmed all over the world. And that is another thing
that I keep seeing people And there's only wrong with saying, oh,
my parents, my grandparents came here because they want a
better life. But this is not about individual choices. It's
about a system like migration is not a historical and
it is not a political We are here because the

(49:42):
United States was in the countries of our parents and
our grandparents and people they say that, yes, yeah, forever.
But the thing that makes me the most annoyed about
these kind of comments one there's countries that are it's
so obvious you cannot deny it, like Central literally all
of Central America, Chile, and there's other places that have
been very covertly destabilized where people don't know enough, but

(50:07):
they're still spouting this nonsense about it, like one of
the fix centeral countries, i e. Mexico, who was destabilized,
but it was in a very like not right out
coup like Guatemala. So people are out here like, well,
my parents are from Mexico and they just can't because
they wanted to. Why do you think they needed a
better life. Why do you think they couldn't achieve it
in Mexico? Why why hello, NAFTA, Do you think that

(50:30):
didn't affect people? You think that it costs people to
come over here? Cool? Tired? I'm tired exactly. Yeah, Like
this is a tired of conversation. And people want to
have a blind patriotism for the United States and refuse
to see the facts that are out there. And this
has been like it's factual, not only because like people

(50:52):
have looked into this in Latin America have done extensive research,
but guess who admitted it and who released documents about
their involvement in Latin America, the CIA, bitch, Yeah, our
own country has admitted to this shit, and so yes,
they do owe people their country like Kelly, you destroyed

(51:15):
other countries, you caused civil war, and and then they
let other people because they didn't want to admit their
role in the civil war. They gave refugee status to
other people that were coming around that time into the country,
but not to Solidorians because they didn't want to admit
the wrongdoing. Yeah. Yeah, like TPS is because of earthquakes,

(51:37):
not because of the Civil War. When people were fleeing
the Civil War that was directly caused by the United States,
they couldn't say. The ramifications of the Civil War are
still fell today. So yeah, if people, even if people
are leaving today, you still owe the United States. Oh
those people. Yeah, so I again I say let them
into United States because you owe them, bitch. Yes, okay,

(52:00):
I'm done, I'm done. Yes, yes, okay. And again this
is all tied together. These things are ongoing. They have
never ended. They have always been here, and we need
to fight back always. And that's why I wanted to
talk about the case of Jose today, because this happened
in twenty twelve. It's not that long ago. No, But

(52:24):
before we go on and on about it, right right,
we can let's do spooky recommendations. Yes, do you have
any I don't have anything, but I want to share
with you something that's made me laugh and cackle this week. Yeah,
so we can do that instead of a spooky recommendation.
So stupid. I don't watch Love Island, so stupid. I

(52:47):
don't watch Love Island, okay, but it just popped up
on TikTok audio of I don't even know her name.
I forgot her name. I knew it, but anyway, she's
a mom, but she doesn't tell anyone she's a mom
in a normal way. She's not like, oh, I have
a daughter. She's like, I'm a mommy. Yeah. And because
Christina's a mom and I send her all the ship,

(53:10):
like all the funny shit that has to do with
like mom, I sent him to her. Hearing it, I
hate she's like, she's like, I'm a mama, and then
the guy she's telling me, he's like and then me.
The worst fucking compilation in the world where it's just
different people saying mamasita or mama or Mommy's so funny.
Laarria Baldwin is in that compilation. But yeah, that has

(53:34):
brought me joy this week. And I have been terrorized
by this because I cringe when I hear it, And
what I don't you know? Do you have any recommendation?
Do I have any recommendations? No? I finished reading. The

(53:55):
hell was oh I finally read Tender as a Flesh Ooh,
and wow, I wasn't as Denden signed as I was
with Hurricane Season. Oh yeah, this was a different type
of like uneasiness, like just like rossness. At reading all this,
I felt I needed a shower and I was like,

(54:17):
should I stop eating me? Yeah, it wasn't settling. I
will say it wasn't settling, And to say it's one
of my favorites now it feels wrong. But it was
so good and that also feels wrong to say because
it was also horrible at the same time. It was
dystopian in the most dystopian way possible. Yeah, and it's

(54:39):
also not the first book about like people eating people suddenly, right,
Like this is a genre. It's genre is a genre,
but this one is actually I haven't read any other
ones that are genre. Cannibalism my first cannibalism genre. I
think that was also my first cannibalism book. Yeah, and
I have to say I had well didn't have a

(55:02):
good time. You had a time. I had a time.
It was intense. I know a lot of people say
that it's a critique on eating beat and they call
it like vegetarian or Reagan propaganda or whatever. But I
feel like for me, it was more about the things

(55:24):
that we normalize in society, and it's about othering and
who we see as human and who we don't see
as human. To me, that's what it was more about.
And really that's what I got from it too. Yeah.
Maybe it's because we're twins. It could be. It could
also be because we're Latin American, yeah, true, and because
there are a few people, yeah, and we're racialized in

(55:47):
the United States. And you know who I've seen connecting
more to the vegetarian society of aspect side of it
is white people of white people, and Okay, they don't
understand what it's like to be others that don't identify
with that. But yeah, it was. It was very a
very interesting commentary. A lot to get from it. The

(56:09):
ending absolutely for some reason, I get like it shocked
me when I read it, as you, but then when
I was like thinking about it, I was like, no,
that actually wasn't surprising because it was being hinted at
the whole throughout the whole book, and not to like
super spoil it, but like you follow this guy. He
works at the processing plan where people are processed as meat.

(56:30):
And these people, like Carmen was saying, have been othered,
have been and this has been normalized. And again, if
you look at right now and the times of right now,
what is being normalized? What is being who is being othered? Right?
Because throughout the whole book, this man who works at
the processing plant is making it a point to say,
I don't eat people. I don't eat meat because all

(56:52):
meat is people. Now right, I don't eat right, I don't.
He's like even like upholding himself as being better for
not doing that, but all a lot he never describes
what he's doing, like he never sees the people as
people anyway, he still sees them doing them yeah. Yeah,
And what he does in the end completely makes sense
in the context of him actually never humanizing any of

(57:16):
the people that he has always been othering. He just
thinks he's better because he's not any of them. And
was that not like liberalism? I think so. And then
I also think it's like he has he's like devoid
of empathy. I think he's apathetic, as are most people
in this book. I feel so like he he likes

(57:39):
he just acts like he's better than everybody, like yeah,
and he's not. He's not a vegetarian for more reasons.
He's a vegetarian to be better than everyone else around him,
to be superior to them. But at the same time,
he's dehumanizing the tucking shit about everybody around him. Yeah,
and he basically assaults the woman that I was doing

(58:00):
out not to ruin. Sorry, I'm sorry, Yeah, you're right,
but yeah, but he's like a trash person and he
actually is better than everybody, but the whole time he
he's not. And so that's why it's not shocking what
he does. At the end. You have to like pay
attention to the other things he's saying, aside from him
repeating that he doesn't eat right because you you fall
for it for I did. Again, I did think that

(58:21):
he's a good person and that everyone else sucks. But
in reality, like everyone sucks. Yeah, everyone is terrible. No
one has any like good qualities to them nothing. What
I was gonna say, though, it's akin to me to
like people like saying, oh, well, we do want deportations.
We are othering these people because they're criminals, or you know, like,

(58:45):
who are you to humanizing? Who are you othering? Right now?
Is what that made me wonder? And like, what do
I need to like stop? What am I normalizing? Yeah,
he's when I took away. That's a good that's a
good question to leave us with. Yes, yes, but in short,

(59:06):
I do recommend it. Yeah, if you want to be horrified, yes, yeah,
I give it five chicken five human fingers out of
five human fingers. Yes, yes, all right, And with that
we leave you hoping that you're also angry with us.
And yes, stay Spookie, watch cat. Sorry, stay Spooky. Will

(59:29):
catch everyone next time. Bye Bye. Book Tells is hosted
by Christina and Carmen, produced and edited by Christina, researched
by Christina Carmen and with the help of Don Shout
out with Don. If you're enjoying the podcast considerably, going
to say five star review, we would really appreciate it.
If you don't want to the professtar review, just don't
leave a review. But don't leave anything lower than that, please,
I'm just kidding. You can reach out to the podcast

(59:51):
at a spooktos at gmail dot com. You can go
to our website at bookitos dot com and fill out
the contact form. If you want to support the podcast,
you can join our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers,
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It's super cool. I got new ones and these ones
are huge. And if you want to support but you
can or don't want to join the Patreon, that's fine too.

(01:00:14):
You can also get some merch. You can find sure
Says say a Spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie.
I love the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a
No Mamas shirt, which is a fan favorite. There's a
lot of options, crap tops, sweaters, it's almost swetter weather.
We're nearing a Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies.

(01:00:34):
You're gonna need them. If you don't want to do
all that, that's fine too. You can just listen like
you're listening now, and that's the best support that you
can give us, like I always say in our ad
break and yeah, if you like history, you can follow
Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen's other podcasts, and you can find
as spooky tails on all of our socials at Spooky
Tells All. This is in the show notes and we

(01:00:56):
appreciate every single listen. Thank you so much. Stay a
spook YEP