February 28, 2022 • 45 mins
"We're talking about a 90% growth in your transaction volume because no lead is a junk lead. There's no situation where you'll get to a dead end and go 'I don't know what to do,' or 'I can't help you.'"
Networking with attorneys for Real Estate Referrals: What probate attorneys and estate planning attorneys want from real estate partners, and where the biggest opportunity to grow transaction volume is.
Full episode notes: https://probatemastery.com/how-to-get-referrals-from-probate-attorneys-real-estate-deals
Estate Professionals Mastermind is thrilled to have Arizona probate and estate planning attorney Rilus Dana on for a real estate Ask The Expert episode! As the founder of MAATLegal.com, Rilus Dana knows what works - and what doesn't - when it comes to attorneys and real estate practitioners working together as vendor partners.
This episode will break down how legal services are changing and what attorneys want from real estate agents and investor partners.
Timestamps (YouTube Links)
0:00 What type of realtors and real estate investors do probate attorneys want to work with?
2:32 How I became an estate planner and opened a law firm
4:13 What are the current issues affecting law firms and how are legal services changing to provide better service to probate clients?
12:07 How to get leads and listing referrals from probate attorneys
13:37 How to get estate planning referrals from your real estate client database or SOI
15:00 How to pitch comarketing and cobranding when prospecting attorneys for referrals
17:09 Get past the law office gatekeeper: Become the paralegal’s favorite real estate professional
18:52 Why I tell clients not to sign listing agreements with their Realtor friend
22:54 Creative finance and wholesaling probate leads: The Pace Morby probate offer strategy
26:08 How to explain lease with option to purchase to motivated sellers in probate
30:44 How to monetize every real estate conversation: Example creative finance script
36:18 Seller financing for probate real estate sales and estate planning (Plus, taking capital gain without depreciation recapture)
40:59 How to make estate planning attorneys and probate attorneys want to work with you
PLUS: 31:28 VIEW VIDEO OF REAL ESTATE SCRIPT EXAMPLE MINDMAP
Join our Facebook group, Estate Professionals Mastermind: https://facebook.com/groups/estateprofessionalsmastermind
Learn more at www.probatemastery.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chad Corbett (00:06):
Welcome everybody.
My name is Chad Corbettfounder of Probate Mastery
Magnum Opus project, andthe Estate Professionals
Mastermind community.
Today, I have anotherask the expert guest.
I'm super excitedthat we crossed paths.
I can't wait to havethis conversation.
We haven't spokenmuch previous to this.
I want to introduce you guys toa probate and estate planning
(00:27):
attorney out of Arizona, as wellas an educator in the space.
What's really exciting to meis we tend to, we seem to have
the shared vision of actuallybridging the gap between the
real estate community andthe estate planning, legal
community, and really showingthose people we can reach
that the rising tide lifts allboats and by working together.
Not seeing each otheras competition, but as a
(00:49):
complimenting skillsets, wecan all serve at a higher
level and ultimately we're inbusiness to make money so we
can all be more profitable.
So Rilus Dana,welcome to the show.
Rilus Dana (00:58):
Thanks for having me great to be here.
I found a channel and I'mnot sure how I found it.
I knew the YouTube algorithmserved it up eventually.
But it's really refreshing.
There's, there's a lot ofcontent out there, but as a
probate attorney, sometimesI'm a little biased or a little
bit different, but, but that,to say that you're spot on so
far everything that I've seen.
I really like your approach,how you cater to the attorneys.
(01:19):
As a probate attorney, I would,say that your approach is
perfect for probate attorneys.
I like what you're saying.
Chad Corbett (01:25):
Yeah.
Well, thank you thatthat's a huge compliment.
I've I've worked hard todifferentiate myself by
approaching most of thisin a very different way.
What I learned that allowed meto make this a fun and lucrative
niche to do real estate inversus the drama and chaos
of conventional real estate.
I learned if you provide valuefirst, whether it's to the
attorney, to the estate salecompany, to the heirs, to
(01:47):
the personal representative,if you lead with value and
really be empathetic to theirsituation, this business just
comes to you like a magnet.
My big vision is to actuallyblur that line between the
legal community and the realestate community by showing
them how reciprocal valuecan actually bridge the gap.
And ultimately the customer,the consumer will benefit
the most, the families whoare being helped will get
(02:10):
the most benefit, but we'reall the law firms are going
to be more profitable asis the real estate farm.
So I'm excited to meet somebodyelse who's a practitioner
and a teacher in the spaceand actually, highlight
you to the community.
You've posted a few videos inthere and I appreciate that.
If you guys want to engage, ifyou're not a member already of
Estate Professionals Mastermindthe private Facebook community,
(02:31):
that's what brought us together.
And then hopefully thespace where we'll, grow
this into somethingthat's really beneficial
to both both industries.
If you don't mind please sharewith us, like what brought
you into the legal field?
When did you start out as,as an estate planning and
probate attorney, or didyou go there on purpose?
Tell us a little bit aboutwhat brought you here today.
Rilus Dana (02:50):
I'm here on purpose and what brought me
here is the mortality ratebeing a hundred percent.
Right.
So be it.
So my dad was an estate planningattorney, I got to look at
the business during college, Istarted working in his law firm
and got a little, taste of it.
And I really enjoyedhelping people.
And then the fact that everyonedies and a lot of money is
(03:12):
in that older generationis going to be shifting.
So that's when I decidedthat I would indeed
get into this business.
Fast forward.
I describe it, kind of the oldschool law firms fear-based
they didn't have to be good.
The old attorneys, there's a lotof them that they didn't have to
be a good, but they could suckand still make a good living.
It really before theinternet, before the internet
(03:32):
kind of shifted and madeinformation easily accessible.
I studied businessmanagement in college.
I knew that I wanted to goto law school, but I studied
business management becauseI always knew that I wanted
to run a business and I sawthe struggles that my dad had
running a law firm, you know,hiring people and all of that.
So after law school, I ended uppurchasing some of the pieces
(03:53):
of the firm from my dad, andthen I went out on my own.
So I there's been a lot ofexperiments basically with
trying to run an effectiveestate planning and probate law.
Chad Corbett (04:04):
Now have you found that difficult to
find mentors in that space?
Like someone who has, hasblazed the trail that you
respect that you're like, Ooh,I want to be like that person.
Or are you becoming that personbecause they don't exist?
You weren't able to find them.
Rilus Dana (04:17):
Yeah.
I would say both of those,Again, the legal
profession is old school.
There's a lot of people likethis works, so this is the
way that we should do it.
And they they're, they'renot concerned about
changing and adapting.
So yeah, I, I was membersof different like attorney
groups, but I found them justlike a little bit outdated.
I, I found it that I was, I wassharing more than I was giving.
(04:40):
It sounds bad, but it wasgreat for my confidence as a
young attorney was the best.
Because this as only afew years in my career,
it's like, wait a minute.
These guys are like twicemy age, don't have a clue.
Like I already have moreexperience than this
guy, cause I saw thequestions they were asking.
It surprised me.
So I was like, really, likeyou've never done that.
(05:00):
Like wants you to do thisor why don't you do that?
Or so yeah, there's not reallya good at least that I, that
I enjoy and, and it's funny.
So yeah, I am tryingto create that network.
For attorneys, you just,by doing more videos.
And what's funny is Iinvite different attorneys.
I've a list of attorneys inArizona or just different
probate attorneys.
And I get responses just likefrom other attorneys that
(05:23):
I've had cases against that.
Just tell me to removethe name from the list.
It's like, bro, I'm justtrying to go to lunch with you.
Like, like I'm just invitingyou to something, but it's
attorneys are a weird bunch.
It's just hard to toget them together.
It's hard tocommunicate with them.
And so
Chad Corbett (05:40):
I pro tip, if you really want to learn to
communicate with any attorneyreally go into traditional
psychology and study theego ID and the super.
And if you understand howthat triad works and how
it affects behavior, likewhat that self-talk inside
of somebody , what's goingon inside their head.
It's a lot easier toappeal to them like this.
(06:02):
But like sometimes when youget those very ego-driven
attorneys, it's none of the 10people will strike out or get
the door slammed in their face.
And a lot of times it's.
That provide valuefirst comes in many
different flavors, right?
The value may be likeappealing to their ego, give
them a chance to talk aboutthemselves and their farm.
And then they're, they, they'reyour best friend in the world.
(06:23):
Some are impossible.
I've met attorney that I justcouldn't tolerate, but most you,
you can find the way in there.
So yeah, it it's, it's adiverse, diverse group of.
Ego ego plays a pretty big rolein the law field I've found.
Rilus Dana (06:35):
Yeah.
One of my old assistantsdescribed attorneys
as simultaneously lazyand control freaks.
Yeah.
So it's like that, thatcan be the challenge.
Like there there's thisattorney's gonna be nervous too.
Cause like, we always got tothink about what the bad things
that can happen and all of that.
So that's how we're wired.
Chad Corbett (06:52):
Yeah.
You guys have, just drawing acomparison to the real estate.
We have some liabilityto be concerned about.
You guys have way moreoversight and regulation and
liability that comes with that.
One of the, one example thatcomes to mind is, you, you're
not allowed to direct market.
Directly solicitthe way that we can.
And that's where, oneof those provide value.
(07:13):
First entry points toreally build a meaningful
relationship with an attorneyis why don't you let them,
be part of as a real estateprofessional, they're allowed
to be part of your community.
They're allowed to havetheir name and yours.
They're not sending adirect sex solicitation.
They might get an endorsementfrom you in a letter, and
that doesn't violate thelaw and they can grow their
(07:34):
farm and build their brandthrough a collaboration with
a real estate professional.
And it's frustrating to me.
It's not very.
Because the approach thatwe teach in probate mastery
for how, how a real estatepractitioner should should
approach a law practitioneris make sure you come in
with something of value.
You don't come in with yourhand out asking for something
(07:56):
cold, on a cold introduction.
But when you do that, likereally focusing on the same
empathetic approach thatyou had used with a personal
representative, if, when you'reprospecting to the family,
use that for the attorney.
Keep in mind.
They are a small business owner.
They have the same strugglesthat we do even more.
And, and, and in thisinstance, like, think about
(08:17):
it, you're allowed to doalmost whatever you want
marketing for real estate.
Imagine if you weren't allowedto direct market, No direct mail
campaign and no cold calling,direct cold calling list.
So there's things that wecan do that, that are pretty
simple for us and veryinexpensive, but make a very
big impact for, for the legalpartner on, on your team.
And when you do that, you you'reearning the trust by, by helping
(08:41):
that small business ownerscale through their problems
and, and, and grow theirbusiness and meet their goals.
And, our goal is to, forattorneys and real estate
agents, let's, let's figure outa way that you can work less.
Good.
So with that, I want to seguelike into your perception and
I'm putting routers on the spot.
Guys.
We, I didn't tell him Iwas going to ask this, but
(09:02):
really curious to hear yourhonest perception of the real
estate industry as a whole,and maybe even some stories,
like how often do you getapproached by real estate
agents or brokers, and howoften do they have anything
valuable to offer versus justcome in, asking or expecting.
Rilus Dana (09:18):
Yeah.
So the real estate asa whole, I'll probably
get in trouble for this.
I already, I already got 'em.
I got an answer for the bar,from a realtor that complained
about something else, but I,
Chad Corbett (09:28):
you only get complaints here.
So core value number10 candor is a virtue.
Rilus Dana (09:32):
Yeah.
If you don't like whatI say, like, sit in the
comments, don't just callthe bar and tell on me.
But I, I feel like the, therealtors have a stranglehold on
it and that's, that's, that'sgonna, it's not going to last
forever with technology andother things, cause, cause
as an attorney, I've see thishappen, w w with legal zoom
and those things, where they,where they fought against it.
But I feel like there'sa real powerful lobby.
(09:54):
You're trying to keeppart of that existence.
W what the realtors.
Well, we talked earlier.
There's some realtorscan be great.
They can provide value andbe a great part of the team,
but just like lawyers, right.
Lawyers are, they're notall, they're not all great.
So there's, there's differentlevels of them, but a good a
good real estate professionalcan really help solve problems.
(10:14):
You know, a good real estateprofessional is just someone
that solves problems.
Your tools are just a littlebit different than in my
legal tools of doing probate.
Chad Corbett (10:22):
When you have the right team, I have about 24 core
team members, so you can offer avertically integrated solution.
Now, obviously the attorneyis one of those and we
use a metaphor of a wheel.
The CPE is thecenter of the wheel.
And then each of thoseother members is a spoke,
but collectively they makeup one valuable piece.
So part of that is, is gettingthe right team together.
(10:44):
And if you meet a real estateprofessional, Who actually
has that vertically integratedteam that you're a member of,
they can liquidate assets.
They can provide a levelof customer service
that's at or above yours.
They act with integrity.
They consider themselves afiduciary, even if they're not.
But they can bring in, thebutcher, the baker, the
candlestick maker, and get allthe needs met of the family.
(11:06):
So they arrangefor an estate sale.
They liquidate thepersonal property.
They take the cash from thepersonal property, raise the
equity level and the realproperty by doing a renovation,
create a bridge loan by lettingthe contractor carry an invoice,
then they, they close it up.
The right real estateprofessional, I feel like
is, is, a godsend to thelaw firm because they can
add value at every singlestep of the process.
(11:28):
It pulls redundancy offof your office staff.
There's not constant emails andphone calls and like trying to
figure out cause that realtorhas proactively educated them
on what to expect, set a properexpectation and delivered
as they said they would.
And each of the otherteam members too.
I've had thousands ofpeople go through the class
and I hope that's makinga difference already.
I mean, We see it in ourcommunities, but I hope the
(11:49):
people that don't aren'ton weekly calls or out,
there's attorneys listeningto this, like, holy crap, I
got one of those cause we'vegot several thousand CPEs
throughout the country now.
And my goal is toreach as many as I can.
And I really want to includemore attorneys in this community
and in this conversationcause I really believe that
quicker we can, join forcesand actually approach this
consumer-focused service, thebetter the situation will get.
(12:13):
That wave of baby boomers cominginto the end of life phase.
There's tons of opportunitythere, opportunity to serve
at a higher level than youever have an opportunity to
monetize that at a higherlevel than you ever have.
Most people who are early intothis community, if they've
been trying this for a while,they'll come in and their tails
between their legs, they'reapprehensive to even visit
(12:33):
attorney or call attorneybecause they've went in with
a selfish one-sided offer, gotthe door, slammed in their face.
And for good reason, theywere just going and asking
a stranger for referralswithout offering a benefit and
something that you, I want,I'd like to hear from me.
Like how often doesthat happen to you?
Cause you.
Your MSA.
Do you get solicitationfrom, from real estate
(12:54):
professionals, investors,brokers, and how often?
Rilus Dana (12:57):
All the time?
I would say probablyfour to five a week.
Chad Corbett (13:01):
Call, a letter, a visit?
Rilus Dana (13:03):
Probably all these, a lot of them, they don't, they
don't get through to me Nowmy team started saving them
because they know that I'm likea real estate investor too.
So they've saved themas examples basically.
They'll set some aside.
But yeah, if you count all theplaces like you know, my law
firm website social medias,all the places four to five a
week, probably now the peoplethat I actually work with
(13:24):
is, when I've talked to otherreal estate professionals,
I say there's one guaranteedway into the attorney's office.
And what is.
Chad Corbett (13:31):
Bring her living trust referral.
There
Rilus Dana (13:34):
you go.
Hire them for whatthey're doing.
Right.
You know, They're, they'rereally simple people.
So just look and see exactlywhat they're in business for and
bring them that type of client.
Chad Corbett (13:43):
And there's two main kind of tactics that
I've, that I teach that I'vefound that worked really well.
You go through your pastclient database, sphere of
influence, wealthy friends,country club, whatever that is.
Find those 95% of Americansdo not have a living trust.
And the majority ofthose, if they're on the
upper income scale, theirestate will be probated.
(14:04):
I find those people in yoursphere that, that don't have
a proper estate plan in placeand say, listen, I just got
I really, really want to serveat a higher level this year.
So part of that is makingsure that all the people
that have trusted mein the past to be their
professional, their fiduciary.
One thing I never didn't do.
And I'm retroactively doingthis is making sure that they
(14:25):
have a proper estate plan inplace because I've started
to specialize in probate.
And I realized the mostvaluable service and probate
is to make sure your familynever goes through that.
So could I give you an hourto sit down with my friend, my
friend and my attorney Rilus?
Like if they're a high networth individual, they're
foolish to say no to that.
Then I go, I come throughRilus' front door and I say,
Hey, yeah, we don't know eachother yet, but we've got a
(14:46):
fun relationship ahead of us.
Let's start with this.
This is one of my best friends.
This is somebody I dearly trust.
I've looked into your office.
I like what you're doing.
Could you please provide themthe level of service that I
expect that they got from me?
What attorney isn'tgoing to respect that?
Rilus Dana (15:01):
Perfect.
That's, that's exactlywhat we want as a business.
Yeah, that's exactly whatwe're trying to bring in.
Chad Corbett (15:06):
If people are too intimidated to take action on
that, a little less threateningway that I've found that works
well is to actually approachthe attorneys with that
marketing collaboration offer.
It's (15:17):
We serve families and probate.
We've got a verticallyintegrated team of people that
help with literally anything thefamily could be going through.
We're looking for the rightattorneys to partner with
that we can actually featurein our marketing pieces
and endorse you as, as aprofessional that meets the
standard that our team demands.
Would you be able to sitdown for just a few minutes
for a quick brainstorm andwe can see where you might
fit into our marketing plan?
(15:38):
What'd you say no to that?
Rilus Dana (15:39):
I'd say send it.
My people I'll consider it.
I don't have time for asit-down, but I would love to
do some marketing together.
Chad Corbett (15:45):
Even if you didn't take the appointment,
I would have your marketingdirector or whomever.
It was, I would sit down.
I would deliver onwhat I promised you.
You would be in a letter orwe would make a postcard, or
we would do a collaborativepodcast or blog posts.
I would invite you to myFacebook community where
people in this situation couldask you questions directly.
And over the next weekor two, you will know
who the hell I was.
(16:05):
And you would know that I wasplaying at a different level.
And so those are just twoways that I've found that
are relatively easy to teach.
It's not as easy to getpeople to take action on.
And I prefer to do it in person.
I think that direct mail andphone calls to attorneys,
it can work sometimes.
But I've found that it'sfar better reception if you
have the courage to walk inand look someone in the eye
(16:26):
with confidence and explainyour offer and your value,
and then give something.
But don't ask on that trip.
And I was on average, Iwould say if I challenge a
hundred people to go talkto three attorneys, On
average, they'll come backwith two solid relationships.
The rejection, the fearof rejection is kind of
unfounded because not manyattorneys have been approached
(16:47):
with a valuable offer.
So they're kind of like,it gets them out of that
default mode network.
And they're like, whoa, thisis a different conversation.
Rilus Dana (16:54):
Yeah.
Chad Corbett (16:54):
And it's usually a really warm reception
that ends up in an houror two long conversation.
And I love getting thosecalls when people call back,
they're like, you're not goingto believe what happened.
Like I was in hisoffice all afternoon.
Like we had to order in lunchcause he just kept asking
me questions and people werejust lit up and I'm like,
see, that's what providingvalue upfront can earn you.
Rilus Dana (17:15):
That's great.
Another twist to that.
Look for their paralegals.
I agree.
Walking to the office is sopowerful, and if you have like
a plate of cookies or somesugar to something nice, so
they're happy to see you, right.
Hey, who is this?
We like this person.
Chad Corbett (17:28):
I coached a girl Uh, she was a licensed ISA.
She wasn't even the listingagent, but out of Richmond,
Virginia, they were oneof the top teams there.
And she, there was a littleItalian bakery down the road
and we were brainstormingand I was like, go get
Christmas cookies and do yourattorneys visits 10 for 10.
Like she went and bought10 things of cookies,
visited 10 attorney'soffice, and she's gotten
(17:50):
deals from all 10 of them.
And all she did, she focusedon the staff, not on the
attorney and she just lovedon them, gave them cookies.
She would drop by each season.
So she would go at Christmas.
She would go at Easter.
She would go at Valentine's day.
She would just dropin and renew that.
And just let them knowthat she was operating
at a different level.
(18:10):
She was differentiatingherself and providing value
to the staff, which ultimatelybreaks down the gatekeeper.
And they're like, oh,Rilus is going to love you.
Let me just put youon his calendar.
Rilus Dana (18:20):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So the attorneys get toomuch attention, but their
staff doesn't get enough.
You'll compliment the paralegal.
We know you're doing all thework anyways, you're, you're
the one we really want tosee and let them know here's
how we help paralegals.
So what I've told my otherfriends, like in, in the
community here they'll mentionmy name to other attorneys.
I warn them.
I'd be careful forbetter, for worse.
They may not be my fan, butlet them know ways that they've
(18:42):
helped my clients and reasonsthat my paralegals like them.
Yeah, they'll meetpeople at properties.
They'll deal withpersonal property.
organize estate sales, all thatstuff that makes me look good.
And it doesn't take mytime and I'm not paying for
someone on my team to do it.
I've been asking my attorney,friends, you know, like what
they do in this situation.
Yeah, when there is realestate and a lot of times
(19:04):
maybe they have a relationshipor they don't, they just
leave it up to their clients.
Now, whenever I get a lead frommy law firm, when we get someone
that calls us, I always ask.
And so is my paralegal.
They ask if theyhave a realtor yet.
and 80% of the timeone is already there.
They have already talked to arealtor or they're already aware
of at least one or two, andI say, don't hire anyone yet.
(19:24):
You don't sign a listingagreement yet because I always
like to explore the wholesaleoffer before they're tied up
with the listing agreement,where especially if the
property needs work, there'sfive kids, only one house.
What I caution against realtorsis, is they could have some
realtor promised them this highprice that they can get, sign
a listing agreement, but if themarket doesn't actually deliver
(19:46):
that price and then sell itfor a lower you're still locked
into that listing agreement.
Chad Corbett (19:50):
I did a deal where I was just shocked
at what came out of me.
Like I laid fouroptions on the table.
She chose a lease withoption to purchase and she
needed maximum price and sheneeded it right right now.
And I was able to checkboth of those boxes by
using creative financing.
But after that, that's whenI started to look and I'm
like how many people are inthis situation each month?
(20:11):
And I went and educatedmyself on probate.
Rilus Dana (20:14):
I love the creative finance.
I like working with realestate professionals
that have more solutions.
So as an attorney, you knowhow I look for real estate
professionals that's oneI'm looking for, how many
options does this person have?
Right.
Do they only have one hammerso everything looks like a nail
to them or did they got a wholetoolbox where they can, look
and see what this person needs.
also if they don't have itin their toolbox, so the type
(20:37):
of person that's going tosay, this is what you need.
You need this over here.
Not me.
Chad Corbett (20:40):
The first year I started in the Virginia
market, I back tested throughMLS records and 77% of estate
listings had expired becauseof exactly what you said, real
estate agents, I won't even sayprofessionals, but people with
license, were putting them intolisting contracts, not cleaning
(21:01):
the house out, overpricing it,the car mirror was in an iPhone
three photo from the road.
They didn't evenget out the car.
There was no lock box on itshowing by appointment only.
Like nobody wasgoing to that house.
Most people aroundhere would list for a
minimum of six months.
The majority I'd saythe majority is 12.
So you've got 12 monthsof the most valuable asset
(21:21):
in the estate being tiedup, incurring expenses,
getting in worse condition,more deferred maintenance.
And to me.
as someone who signed a pieceof paper and said, I am your
fiduciary, I think there shouldbe accountability for that.
That's not a very popularopinion among my peers in
real estate, but if you're outthere hanging paper and taking
listings grossly overpriced,they're not going to sell, to me
(21:43):
that's just weak salesmanship.
You, you don't have the courageor the strength to actually
tell this person the truth andshow them the real market value.
If you were a fiduciary,you would do that because
that's your fiduciary duty.
Right?
And a lot of people reallyscowl at me when I share
that, that, that opinion.
I'm pretty, pretty deep seatedin that because I've seen
the impact of the family.
(22:03):
I've had the tears on, myshoulder when I came to
clean up the damn mess.
And that first dealwas one of those.
So picking the right realestate professional is very
important for the attorneys.
Because if you get one ofthe, oh yeah, I'll do it.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I'll drop my listingcommission to 1% we'll
list it for 1,000,005.
Across the street soldfor 300, but it's probably
(22:23):
worth 1,000,005, and thenjust sit there and wait.
Three quarters of thelistings in this particular
market and in many marketsare expiring because they're
being overpriced and undermarketed and underserved.
And there's just no sense in it.
There's, there's,there's a better way.
Rilus Dana (22:39):
I think a lot of these attorneys, I have a
friend who's a fiduciary as afiduciary business to courts
and companies will appoint him.
But he had a listingin that situation.
It's about to expire.
And I was like, dude,there's other options.
If it's not selling on theMLS, you should look at
a wholesale cash offer.
And I, I basically had todescribe what a wholesale
transaction was to him.
(22:59):
You know, let them knowhe has other options
for things like that.
So now something that I talkedabout, some on my channel
and the other attorneysis how do you balance that
fiduciary duty, with withthe wholesale offer price?
Right?
I I'm licensed in Californiatoo, although I don't really
do probates over there.
I did this more estateplanning, their probates way
more of a pain because oneof the things that the pain
(23:22):
is you have to get a refereeand an appraisal every time.
And then the judge, you got toexplain why you didn't sell for
that price or, or what it is.
Arizona, they really don't care.
It's just thatfiduciary duty, right?
Once we get someoneappointed for the estate,
we're not required to getan appraisal on the house.
So usually if they're sellingit that the best appraisal is
what someone's willing to pay.
(23:43):
But if you don't list it onthe market, I learned this
from my friend pace Morby.
So now he's he's on a TV showand, the, create a finance guy.
But I saw he was doingthis with my clients, he
made an offer to buy it.
And he would offer to paya thousand dollars higher
than any other offers.
And then he had a nice10,000 earnest deposit.
(24:03):
So in that case, oneof the siblings was
represented by an attorney.
He had a friend thatwanted to make an offer.
And one of the other kidsalso had a friend that was
a real estate investor.
So we got all their offersand we took it back and
Pace was willing to beat it.
But I, I see it work allways where yeah, they're
willing to beat it.
And if so that'sour highest offer.
And, we had the fiduciary dutyto take the highest offer.
(24:26):
I had that other attorneyyelling at me why he didn't
take his friend's deal.
And it's like, youjust described that I'm
doing a good job for myclient as a fiduciary.
We, we got the highestoffer, so you're welcome.
I feel like the real estateworld is getting more
creative and more open-mindedand people are seeing that
there's not just everythingis just listed on the MLS.
Chad Corbett (24:44):
One, one student in one story at a time.
It's just how it is like Ichallenged myself shortly after
I did that first probate deal.
I shocked myself.
So I gave her four optionsand I didn't plan this.
I was selfishly going there tobuy that house because it was
in the neighborhood I had, Ihad moved from Maui to Virginia.
And like I'm like,yes, got my house.
(25:05):
I've only been here two months.
When I looked her in theeye, it all changed though.
I'm like, man, thisisn't about me.
And about this house forme, like this is about her.
She was devastated.
So walked through the house,saw valuable antique furniture.
Felt her out, realizedthat she needed as much
equity as possible andas fast as possible.
So a cash offer at 70 cents onthe dollar wasn't going to work.
(25:26):
I threw it out thereto create a new, I was
going to get the flinch.
And when I did, she'slike, oh no, we can't.
And I'm like, all right.
Perfect.
So now I've got acontrasting point, right?
I've got an anchor tomake the other three
options look really good.
And at the time the optionsare just rolling out.
I'm like, blah, blah.
But what we can do, we cansell it as is, whereas on
the MLS, no contingencies, Iwould expect we can have it
(25:48):
ratified within a week andprobably close within 30 days.
Option three is wesell it conventionally.
But first we go through, weempty the personal property.
We liquidate that we use thatmoney to do a cosmetic rehab.
We stage the home, we getpress professional photography,
and we go back out tomarket at a retail price.
So we maximize yourequity is probably going
(26:08):
to take 45 to 60 days.
And she, you could see itwas sounding better, but
she still had apprehension.
And I was like, butthere's one more thing.
And this is complicated,feel free to ask as many
questions as you need.
I'll try to simplify it.
I have a list of aspiringbuyers who can't qualify
for financing right now.
They've already been pre-vetted,we've been criminal credit
background, sex offender checks.
(26:30):
They have filled out afull mortgage application.
We know exactly whythey were denied.
We've got them incredit coaching.
What I would like todo is list the house at
absolute top retail price.
No contingencies, inspectionsare welcome, but it's still
an as-is where is sale clearcontingency and on the front.
And we're going to do thiswith a lease with option
to purchase real estate.
We'll take an $8,000 deposit,1100 1st month, 1100 last month.
(26:51):
And we'll close it within days.
And she was like, ohmy God, let's do that.
That's amazing.
Really, she didn't even havequestions like the, the, the
lease option done properly isnot the simplest paperwork.
At the time, Dodd-Frank wasstill a very touchy area
with creative financing.
It has since loosened up,but I was just shocked
(27:12):
that the most complex.
Tactic as the one thatshe was most attracted to.
And because I was focusedon her needs, she wanted the
most money she could get asfast as she could get it.
And that was the onethat really, you know,
met all of her needs.
I've tried to teach this.
After that I went home, Ihad a glass of Cabernet and
I'm like, what did I just do?
And how can I replicate that?
(27:34):
And I looked at all these junkprobate leads in my database
that I had been meetingwith for two or three months
and coming up short makingoffers, they would flinch.
I would try to refer itto a realtor or list it.
Myself, always broke rapport.
And what came outof that really?
That was, that deal changedthe whole course of my career.
And it taught me I was ateacher eventually, but
(27:54):
I quit being Chad, theinvestor and I quit being
Chad, the realtor that day.
And I just started to be Chadand I would always on almost
every single appointment I'vebeen on since I've offered
no less than two options.
Yeah, like I'll, I'll list itor I'll buy it, but usually
it's more options than that.
Like we can, we canhelp you transition this
(28:15):
to a rental property.
We can help get one of yourfamily members qualified so
they actually can purchasethe home from the estate.
We can help you, turn itinto a short-term rental.
We can actually partnerwith you, we'll do a land
trust we'll joint venture.
We'll establish a costbasis for the asset.
We'll bring the constructioncrews, the capital we'll take
all the risks at the end, wesplit it 50, 50 net, and I get
(28:37):
paid a commission on top ofthat for being a listing agent.
We lay all these options outthat they've never heard of.
Rilus Dana (28:42):
I would say, If you were referred by an
attorney, do you think theywould like that attorney.
Right.
So that's the type ofprofessionals that I look for,
because look at those options.
Right.
But look at what you gavethat, like, do any other, how
many other people are goingto offer that many options?
Chad Corbett (28:56):
Very few.
And if I had it my way,everyone who has a CPE
designation would do that,but unfortunately, I think a
lot of people are intimidated.
It takes critical thinkingskills and, and you've got
to have a good relationshipwith a real estate attorney
that can watch your assetsfor you and make sure you've
got the proper contracts.
Don't be intimidated guys, ifyou're inspired by this, by this
idea about this conversation.
(29:17):
Please go toward that.
Like we teach and in sessiontwo of probate mastery, I
teach like the full spectrumof everything you can do to
help a family ranging fromthings that are just like
getting a social workerto help a surviving family
member find suitable housing.
And in a short time, It'ssomething you're going
to have to do eventually,if you haven't already.
(29:38):
It's the failure to launchkid, who's 50 years old plays
X-Box and smokes every day andhe's not going anywhere unless
you better his situation.
So there's things like that.
Like we teach you how to do.
That just pure service thatyou're unlikely to monetize
all the way to making sevenfigure paydays by partnering
with the estate on a piece ofag land subdividing, do the
(30:00):
carbon gutter, and then, andthen sell it off to a builder,
innovation homes or whoever itmight be, or individual lots.
And I, I've coached peoplewho have taken up 150 200,000
hayfield and turned it intoa $2 million disposition.
The family made amillion extra bucks just
because he followed that.
He was a student and then Iran into him at a campfire
(30:22):
in Tennessee on a dirt bike.
We were riding dirt bikes.
And we started talking andI'm like, you can do this.
He's like, I'mgoing to go do that.
So he would do about twodeals a year with family
to inherited farm land.
He'd make a couplemillion, they would make
a couple million extra.
So there's so much you cando to help these people.
If you're willing to thinkoutside of the box and lead
with a servant's heart, lookingat yourself as a fiduciary
(30:44):
put their best interests,first, provide options for
them, and then you don'thave to sell a damn thing.
You give them a choice.
They choose how they'regoing to work with you.
They choose how you're goingto monetize the conversation.
But what's important tomy goal was the challenge
that I asked you to myselfwas how do I monetize every
real estate conversation?
I've got a mind map ofwhat that looks like, the
(31:07):
logic of it, where youactually, you're saying is
the real estate yes or no.
And depending on howthat branches, is there a
motivation to sell yes or no?
Rilus Dana (31:15):
So as an attorney, I I'm interested to see if
by similar what I go through,I talk to prospects, but I
started using real estate as adifferent lead source because
a lot of times that's themain source of the problem.
And that's going to be theanswer to what we do in the
probate, it's going to bedetermined by what they want
to do with the real estate.
Chad Corbett (31:34):
So while we're here, this is a graphic.
So what we teach in the course,one of the things, so you've
got your internal team, whoeverdoes prospecting appointments,
listing transactionsbut then it blows up.
This is your vendor team.
And, probate attorney is one ofthose people an estate planning
attorney, a probate attorney.
This is what a typicalteam would look like for a
certified probate expert.
(31:55):
This is a truly verticallyintegrated solution.
They can provide literallydozens and dozens of options
to these probate sellers.
So it's pretty hardto compete with that.
Yeah, this is howmy brain works.
On the left here, you've gotall the different lead types
that I've used this for.
The approach reallydoesn't change much.
The conversation changes, butthe L the line of logic doesn't
(32:16):
it starts with is a real estate.
Yes or no.
If not, then who is a referralpartner that can help a tenant.
Maybe it's somebody who ownsa self-storage facility, a
cleaning company, a pressurewashing company, a handyman,
somebody, everybody canuse help from somebody.
Right.
And this is the idea ofmonetizing every conversation,
(32:36):
but more likely, yes,there's real estate.
Is there a motivation to sell?
If no, most people will belike, okay, Junk lead, but
if there's no motivationto sell, is there debt?
And if yes paymentsare current, yes.
Get it through yoursphere of influence.
Maybe they can refinanceinto a lower rate.
Maybe they can invest inBitcoin by accessing the
(32:58):
home equity through a homeequity line of credit.
They need a livingtrust, don't they Rilus?
They need to sit down with aregistered investment advisor
and understand infinite bankingand how they don't need to
worry about loan approval.
They can buy a whole lifepolicy and loan themselves
money and actually paydown debt twice as fast.
They need an insurance broker.
We all do.
So even when you, when, whenmost real estate professionals
(33:20):
think they've hit a deadend, there's still one
more question to ask them,one more like if you can
continue to provide value.
There's debt, paymentsaren't current, and
we've got no equity.
Then we've got the opportunityopportunity for a loan mod
or referral to a bankruptcyattorney, or you can buy the
property from them and leaseit back to them if you're a
really risk-tolerant investor.
(33:42):
But that's the no side,the more common part of the
conversation is the real estate,yes.
And then we look at the debt.
Real (33:48):
this gives us some pretty simple strategies, right?
If they want to be outof this in less than 30
days, it's a cash offer.
Wholesale price.
If they've got 60 to 90, wecan go conventional listing
and get them more equity.
If they're unrealistic onprice or they just have
to get to a certain netfigure then we can do this
using creative financing.
(34:09):
We can maximize thatprice by not paying fees,
not negotiating with thebuyers, not doing repairs.
A mortgage and interestfree mortgage owner finance
contract or deed leasewith option to purchase.
If there's debt are the paymentscurrent yes or no, we basically
ended up at the same thing.
I'll spare you guys goingthrough every branch.
But what we're lookingat is this is the logical
(34:29):
framework that my brainis using when I'm having
an emotional conversation.
So I'm not saying areyour payments current,
do you want to move?
I get it.
Don't do that.
That's why I don'toffer scripts with this.
It's the art of having anemotional conversation following
this logical track, but youcan see, as I extrapolate this
(34:50):
out, there's no situation whereI get to a dead end and go.
I don't know what todo or I can't help you.
And that's what I challengeeverybody that takes
that takes my coursesand follows my approach.
I want to teach everybody how todo this because it provides so
much more value to the families.
Everybody makes more money.
The family makes more money.
(35:10):
The attorney makes more moneythan the real estate agent
or broker makes more money.
And it's just more fun whenyou're using creative solutions.
Even for your audiencelistening to this, if you have
a legal practice and you'relooking to connect with these
type of people, we've hadover 4,000 people certified
through this course that havelearned from that, teaching.
And it's like, it is a muchdifferent experience working
(35:32):
with the someone, a realestate professional that
thinks outside of the box.
They can be a transactionengineer on their feet and
they can do dozens of offerdozens of different solutions
to everyone they talk to.
Rilus Dana (35:43):
My friend Pace Morby has helped people with
creative financing solutions.
So there's a lot of peoplethat love me because of Pace.
Chad Corbett (35:48):
I haven't met pace yet.
You should probablyintroduce us.
I've had several people belike, do you know that guy?
You guys really needto know each other.
And Chris Prefontaineis a friend of mine.
He's also incredibly goodas, as a teacher in the
creative financing space.
What those guys are teachingand what we just looked at.
We're talking about a 90% growthin your transaction volume
(36:09):
because no lead is a junk lead.
If you get a conversation, youcan actually help that person
and monetize that conversation.
So I would love, we need tohave panel discussion with me
Pace and Chris Prefontaine,Joe McCall would be a good
addition to that, too.
Rilus Dana (36:23):
Yeah, that'd be great.
There's different opportunities.
Like one, one I'm thinking of isI had some clients, they didn't
think they could requalify.
They didn't have any creditand they had to sell the
house that they're in becausethere's multiple beneficiaries.
So he was able to find them likea seller finance deal to buy.
That's like one that comesto mind and they're like,
hugging me, like, oh my gosh,I've never thought we would
be able to buy a house again.
Chad Corbett (36:44):
Yeah.
Like, depending on thesituation, like the option
there, like, well, how wouldyou guys like to buy a home
and just pay a private mortgageand not have to pay for
appraisals and PMI and all that?
Well, that sounds great,but we can't qualify.
Well, that's up to me.
I'm the lender so I can buythis house from the estate
and lease it back to you.
And I pocket all that,or I can buy this house
(37:04):
and then sell it to you.
Or if you really don't likethis house, I'll take one of
the other houses I've alreadybought, or I'll go find
the house and I'll buy it.
I'll become your lender.
And over time you canbuy me back or you
can refinance me out.
Rilus Dana (37:15):
I'm trying to spread the word about seller
financing to my my client base.
So I, I have a pretty big listof legal clients who we've
done estate planning for.
And the scenario that I'venow seen a few times is
they have a couple of rentalproperties that are low basis.
So they depreciated it to zero.
They're sick of being landlords.
But they don't, they don'twant to take the tax it, if
(37:37):
they sell, they don't wantto pay all the capital gains
and then they don't knowwhere to reinvest the money.
I think a seller financeis a perfect situation.
It is.
Chad Corbett (37:45):
And you're an attorney.
You probably havethought of this.
If they're held in an LLC, youcan actually acquire the LLC and
not transfer a title and triggera taxable, a taxable event.
So they can actually, the LLCholds title to the real estate.
It's a business transaction,not a real estate transaction,
and they can take it tothe capital gain without
the depreciation recapture.
Rilus Dana (38:07):
That's good to know.
There's ways around thatdepreciation recapture,
because that can betough for people that are
recaptured depreciation.
Chad Corbett (38:14):
Yeah, it's just, it's, it's a deferral game.
It's coming back at you andmost of the asset class.
Rilus Dana (38:20):
I had an estate planning client come see
me, that I'm actually goingto pitch seller financing
to after thinking about asituation for awhile, but he
has nine properties in Arizona.
He was wanting to give to hisgrandkids and he wanted to
have his grandkids run them.
And I'm like,that's a nightmare.
That, that is a nightmarehaving multiple.
And it's like this,this is great.
(38:41):
What you've built.
And he also had in your infinitebanking and he was trying to
force that upon his grandkids.
This is a great scenario,but you know I think
this guy might've beenan engineer by trade too.
Sometimes they're kind of overanalytical and his poor wife
wasn't on board with that.
Right.
She was trying to simplify ittoo, because I was showing him
like my best case scenario, ifit works, how you want, you're
(39:03):
talking about four differenttrustees that are going to
manage this and manage business.
Their fees are notgoing to be small, even
if it goes perfectly.
I was thinking about it moreand I'm going to call them
back and be like, if theresult you're trying to achieve
is, they're not be able tosell the properties and not
have a lump sum of cash.
And you want to guaranteean income stream?
I think a sellerfinance situation could
(39:24):
be a perfect option.
You'll help sell hisportfolio and just hold
the notes in his trust.
And his grandkids inheritthose notes that entitled
them to the payments.
Chad Corbett (39:35):
Good strategy.
Rilus Dana (39:36):
Yeah, I, I want, I want more people to become
aware of this because a lotof times they they only know
what the realtor says andthe banker says, and they
say, you can't do that!
Chad Corbett (39:46):
Yeah, "I've never heard of that,
therefore it must be illegal!"I find it very easy to explain
to the families because whatyou're saying is so different.
They, they trust you.
Like, they're like,wow, this guy knows
what he's talking about.
I think I trust him andthey typically don't
have that many questions.
I make it a point toalways structure creative
financing deals and thepresence of an attorney.
(40:06):
So if they have questions,I'm not put in a position
where I could be perceivedas practicing law.
I just go sit at a conferencetable, my real estate attorney
is happy to sit there.
Usually he doesn't haveto answer many questions.
But I find the most difficultthing about creative financing
is cooperating with otherbrokers, agents or brokers.
And they're just determinedthat it must be illegal because
(40:26):
their broker didn't teachthem that, or it wasn't in the
real estate school handbook.
I should have learned everythingin those 60 hours of education.
And it's frustrating to me.
I had to interview probably12 brokers before one would
allow me to hang my licenseand my license has been
hanging there for 12 yearswithout a single thing.
Like I've run mybusiness with integrity.
It's important to me, butthere are so few people
(40:47):
who will venture into thecreative financing space,
because someone has convincedthem that little voice in
their head, their broker,their, whoever it might be.
They've been convinced that it'sa shyster game and it's illegal.
And then you're just, it'sjust a matter of time until
you get to go to prison fordoing owner financing deal.
It couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
Like.
The practitioners.
And I know people like PaceMorby, Jim Krautkramer out
(41:09):
of Charlotte, and ChrisPrefontaine, and Joe McCall.
These are all guys that, thatare teaching this different,
different strategies withinthat space, but they've been
doing it for decades andthey've never been pinched.
Like they, they doit with integrity.
They put service first.
And, they make absurd amountsof money, but they earned that
like they educated themselvesand provided real value.
(41:31):
So if you guys find thisconversation interesting, I
challenge you and encourageyou to learn at least one
creative financing tacticeach quarter this year.
So if you don't know how todo a wrap or a subject to,
or a land contract for deedlease with option to purchase.
Find a mentor, find a book,but find a way to build
(41:51):
that into your skillset asa real estate professional.
It will just make it somuch easier to get in with
attorneys like rabbits thatare like, oh, okay, well, I
got my, I got my two guys butneither one of them do this.
So I'm going to makeroom on the team for you.
Like if somebody comes in thatcan get the difficult deals
done and we haven't even gottenin the title issues and like
(42:12):
reverse mortgages and HECMloans and how to navigate that.
Like, I don't know what yourexperience has been, but the
majority of families thatI see that have a reverse
mortgage on the house.
Typically, they're stillpissed off that mom and dad
did that because they advisedthem not to and they just put
their head in the sand andlet it roll the foreclosure,
even if there's equity and inthat example where if you had
(42:35):
that guy on your dream team,he is a seasoned investor.
He's risk-tolerant he knowsthat I've got a 90 day window.
I'll come in, buy cash forit, sub2 transaction, title
transfers with the firstposition lien in place.
And then I'll refinance itthrough my community bank as
soon as I get a tenant in thereand I can show them that I have
(42:56):
a 1.2, five debt coverage ratio.
Boom.
He took a deal that wasgoing to go to foreclosure.
The family was going to giveup the equity and you turned it
into a deal for that investor.
And that investor he helpedyour firm be able to close
that probate deal out becausethe assets are disposed of.
When you can think outsideof the box attorneys and real
estate professionals, it's justa hell of a lot more fun to
(43:18):
like transaction engineeringis like my favorite game.
It's like, Ooh,can you stump me?
I've had a really goodtime learning that.
And in the probate space,creative financing is more
complicated because you notonly have to understand the
real estate law, you betterunderstand probate law too.
And what that timelinelooks like in your state and
what you're getting into.
Like As Rilus said, one of thetactics I've used is pump up a
(43:41):
big fat earnest money deposit.
So you stand out fromall the other offers.
Well, if you're in California,throw down 10 grand and earnest
money and, and the closingis subject to court approval.
You might be out 10grand for 10 months.
So make sure you understandthe market you're working in.
In Probate Mastery we teachyou kind of the macro and then
(44:01):
show you how to get the microknowledge, like that local
probate process knowledgethrough the probate clerk, the
probate code, probate attorneys.
It's a little more complexthan the probate space,
but certainly doable.
I've taught hundredsand hundreds of people.
I wish I could say thousands,but hundreds have actually
taken action on that.
So they're out there like the,the right practitioners, but.
Whereas, I know you hadto jump and we're just
(44:23):
past the top of the hour.
Like I said before we started,I think we could do a series
that would go on for days.
I'm excited to have you aspart of the community, man.
I really appreciate thevalue that you provide.
You I've seen, you share inthere, you contribute and
that's what it's all about.
Anything you want tosay as we close out.
Tell them how toget ahold of you.
Yeah.
Rilus Dana (44:41):
So thanks for having me happy to be a
part of this community.
I'd love to come back.
I'd love to give my take as aprobate attorney and to help
this community because I feellike this, you know, the real
estate professionals thatreally helped my law firms.
So this is great for theattorneys in your network.
Uh, best place tofind my contact info.
You can go to RilusDana.com.
So my first and last name,that it has links to all
(45:03):
my different websites.
So we're where Ipractice law in Arizona.
Attorneys, you can share, ifyou have attorneys in your
networks, you can share withthem my MAAT legal site, where
I have continuing educationclasses on there including
how they can work withreal estate professionals.
Chad Corbett (45:17):
Yeah.
Well, listen, thanks somuch for your time guys.
I think this is probablythe first of a series or
many, many calls, possiblyeven ongoing calls.
If you've gotten value from thisand you enjoyed it, please be
sure and drop in the commentsanything that you might like
to hear us touch on next.
Is there anything you werewaiting for us to get to that
we didn't, that, just a burningquestion, like something
you're interested in, somethingyou've been intimidated about?
(45:38):
Drop some questions in thecomments, so that way we
know how we can bring valueto you guys on future calls.
So thanks so much for beingpart of this community and
tuning in today and Rilus thankyou so much for your time.
I appreciate you being here.
Rilus Dana (45:50):
Thanks, Chad!
Chad Corbett (45:51):
Have a good day, guys.
Welcome everybody.
My name is Chad Corbettfounder of Probate Mastery
Magnum Opus project, andthe Estate Professionals
Mastermind community.
Today, I have anotherask the expert guest.
I'm super excitedthat we crossed paths.
I can't wait to havethis conversation.
We haven't spokenmuch previous to this.
I want to introduce you guys toa probate and estate planning
(00:27):
attorney out of Arizona, as wellas an educator in the space.
What's really exciting to meis we tend to, we seem to have
the shared vision of actuallybridging the gap between the
real estate community andthe estate planning, legal
community, and really showingthose people we can reach
that the rising tide lifts allboats and by working together.
Not seeing each otheras competition, but as a
(00:49):
complimenting skillsets, wecan all serve at a higher
level and ultimately we're inbusiness to make money so we
can all be more profitable.
So Rilus Dana,welcome to the show.
Rilus Dana (00:58):
Thanks for having me great to be here.
I found a channel and I'mnot sure how I found it.
I knew the YouTube algorithmserved it up eventually.
But it's really refreshing.
There's, there's a lot ofcontent out there, but as a
probate attorney, sometimesI'm a little biased or a little
bit different, but, but that,to say that you're spot on so
far everything that I've seen.
I really like your approach,how you cater to the attorneys.
(01:19):
As a probate attorney, I would,say that your approach is
perfect for probate attorneys.
I like what you're saying.
Chad Corbett (01:25):
Yeah.
Well, thank you thatthat's a huge compliment.
I've I've worked hard todifferentiate myself by
approaching most of thisin a very different way.
What I learned that allowed meto make this a fun and lucrative
niche to do real estate inversus the drama and chaos
of conventional real estate.
I learned if you provide valuefirst, whether it's to the
attorney, to the estate salecompany, to the heirs, to
(01:47):
the personal representative,if you lead with value and
really be empathetic to theirsituation, this business just
comes to you like a magnet.
My big vision is to actuallyblur that line between the
legal community and the realestate community by showing
them how reciprocal valuecan actually bridge the gap.
And ultimately the customer,the consumer will benefit
the most, the families whoare being helped will get
(02:10):
the most benefit, but we'reall the law firms are going
to be more profitable asis the real estate farm.
So I'm excited to meet somebodyelse who's a practitioner
and a teacher in the spaceand actually, highlight
you to the community.
You've posted a few videos inthere and I appreciate that.
If you guys want to engage, ifyou're not a member already of
Estate Professionals Mastermindthe private Facebook community,
(02:31):
that's what brought us together.
And then hopefully thespace where we'll, grow
this into somethingthat's really beneficial
to both both industries.
If you don't mind please sharewith us, like what brought
you into the legal field?
When did you start out as,as an estate planning and
probate attorney, or didyou go there on purpose?
Tell us a little bit aboutwhat brought you here today.
Rilus Dana (02:50):
I'm here on purpose and what brought me
here is the mortality ratebeing a hundred percent.
Right.
So be it.
So my dad was an estate planningattorney, I got to look at
the business during college, Istarted working in his law firm
and got a little, taste of it.
And I really enjoyedhelping people.
And then the fact that everyonedies and a lot of money is
(03:12):
in that older generationis going to be shifting.
So that's when I decidedthat I would indeed
get into this business.
Fast forward.
I describe it, kind of the oldschool law firms fear-based
they didn't have to be good.
The old attorneys, there's a lotof them that they didn't have to
be a good, but they could suckand still make a good living.
It really before theinternet, before the internet
(03:32):
kind of shifted and madeinformation easily accessible.
I studied businessmanagement in college.
I knew that I wanted to goto law school, but I studied
business management becauseI always knew that I wanted
to run a business and I sawthe struggles that my dad had
running a law firm, you know,hiring people and all of that.
So after law school, I ended uppurchasing some of the pieces
(03:53):
of the firm from my dad, andthen I went out on my own.
So I there's been a lot ofexperiments basically with
trying to run an effectiveestate planning and probate law.
Chad Corbett (04:04):
Now have you found that difficult to
find mentors in that space?
Like someone who has, hasblazed the trail that you
respect that you're like, Ooh,I want to be like that person.
Or are you becoming that personbecause they don't exist?
You weren't able to find them.
Rilus Dana (04:17):
Yeah.
I would say both of those,Again, the legal
profession is old school.
There's a lot of people likethis works, so this is the
way that we should do it.
And they they're, they'renot concerned about
changing and adapting.
So yeah, I, I was membersof different like attorney
groups, but I found them justlike a little bit outdated.
I, I found it that I was, I wassharing more than I was giving.
(04:40):
It sounds bad, but it wasgreat for my confidence as a
young attorney was the best.
Because this as only afew years in my career,
it's like, wait a minute.
These guys are like twicemy age, don't have a clue.
Like I already have moreexperience than this
guy, cause I saw thequestions they were asking.
It surprised me.
So I was like, really, likeyou've never done that.
(05:00):
Like wants you to do thisor why don't you do that?
Or so yeah, there's not reallya good at least that I, that
I enjoy and, and it's funny.
So yeah, I am tryingto create that network.
For attorneys, you just,by doing more videos.
And what's funny is Iinvite different attorneys.
I've a list of attorneys inArizona or just different
probate attorneys.
And I get responses just likefrom other attorneys that
(05:23):
I've had cases against that.
Just tell me to removethe name from the list.
It's like, bro, I'm justtrying to go to lunch with you.
Like, like I'm just invitingyou to something, but it's
attorneys are a weird bunch.
It's just hard to toget them together.
It's hard tocommunicate with them.
And so
Chad Corbett (05:40):
I pro tip, if you really want to learn to
communicate with any attorneyreally go into traditional
psychology and study theego ID and the super.
And if you understand howthat triad works and how
it affects behavior, likewhat that self-talk inside
of somebody , what's goingon inside their head.
It's a lot easier toappeal to them like this.
(06:02):
But like sometimes when youget those very ego-driven
attorneys, it's none of the 10people will strike out or get
the door slammed in their face.
And a lot of times it's.
That provide valuefirst comes in many
different flavors, right?
The value may be likeappealing to their ego, give
them a chance to talk aboutthemselves and their farm.
And then they're, they, they'reyour best friend in the world.
(06:23):
Some are impossible.
I've met attorney that I justcouldn't tolerate, but most you,
you can find the way in there.
So yeah, it it's, it's adiverse, diverse group of.
Ego ego plays a pretty big rolein the law field I've found.
Rilus Dana (06:35):
Yeah.
One of my old assistantsdescribed attorneys
as simultaneously lazyand control freaks.
Yeah.
So it's like that, thatcan be the challenge.
Like there there's thisattorney's gonna be nervous too.
Cause like, we always got tothink about what the bad things
that can happen and all of that.
So that's how we're wired.
Chad Corbett (06:52):
Yeah.
You guys have, just drawing acomparison to the real estate.
We have some liabilityto be concerned about.
You guys have way moreoversight and regulation and
liability that comes with that.
One of the, one example thatcomes to mind is, you, you're
not allowed to direct market.
Directly solicitthe way that we can.
And that's where, oneof those provide value.
(07:13):
First entry points toreally build a meaningful
relationship with an attorneyis why don't you let them,
be part of as a real estateprofessional, they're allowed
to be part of your community.
They're allowed to havetheir name and yours.
They're not sending adirect sex solicitation.
They might get an endorsementfrom you in a letter, and
that doesn't violate thelaw and they can grow their
(07:34):
farm and build their brandthrough a collaboration with
a real estate professional.
And it's frustrating to me.
It's not very.
Because the approach thatwe teach in probate mastery
for how, how a real estatepractitioner should should
approach a law practitioneris make sure you come in
with something of value.
You don't come in with yourhand out asking for something
(07:56):
cold, on a cold introduction.
But when you do that, likereally focusing on the same
empathetic approach thatyou had used with a personal
representative, if, when you'reprospecting to the family,
use that for the attorney.
Keep in mind.
They are a small business owner.
They have the same strugglesthat we do even more.
And, and, and in thisinstance, like, think about
(08:17):
it, you're allowed to doalmost whatever you want
marketing for real estate.
Imagine if you weren't allowedto direct market, No direct mail
campaign and no cold calling,direct cold calling list.
So there's things that wecan do that, that are pretty
simple for us and veryinexpensive, but make a very
big impact for, for the legalpartner on, on your team.
And when you do that, you you'reearning the trust by, by helping
(08:41):
that small business ownerscale through their problems
and, and, and grow theirbusiness and meet their goals.
And, our goal is to, forattorneys and real estate
agents, let's, let's figure outa way that you can work less.
Good.
So with that, I want to seguelike into your perception and
I'm putting routers on the spot.
Guys.
We, I didn't tell him Iwas going to ask this, but
(09:02):
really curious to hear yourhonest perception of the real
estate industry as a whole,and maybe even some stories,
like how often do you getapproached by real estate
agents or brokers, and howoften do they have anything
valuable to offer versus justcome in, asking or expecting.
Rilus Dana (09:18):
Yeah.
So the real estate asa whole, I'll probably
get in trouble for this.
I already, I already got 'em.
I got an answer for the bar,from a realtor that complained
about something else, but I,
Chad Corbett (09:28):
you only get complaints here.
So core value number10 candor is a virtue.
Rilus Dana (09:32):
Yeah.
If you don't like whatI say, like, sit in the
comments, don't just callthe bar and tell on me.
But I, I feel like the, therealtors have a stranglehold on
it and that's, that's, that'sgonna, it's not going to last
forever with technology andother things, cause, cause
as an attorney, I've see thishappen, w w with legal zoom
and those things, where they,where they fought against it.
But I feel like there'sa real powerful lobby.
(09:54):
You're trying to keeppart of that existence.
W what the realtors.
Well, we talked earlier.
There's some realtorscan be great.
They can provide value andbe a great part of the team,
but just like lawyers, right.
Lawyers are, they're notall, they're not all great.
So there's, there's differentlevels of them, but a good a
good real estate professionalcan really help solve problems.
(10:14):
You know, a good real estateprofessional is just someone
that solves problems.
Your tools are just a littlebit different than in my
legal tools of doing probate.
Chad Corbett (10:22):
When you have the right team, I have about 24 core
team members, so you can offer avertically integrated solution.
Now, obviously the attorneyis one of those and we
use a metaphor of a wheel.
The CPE is thecenter of the wheel.
And then each of thoseother members is a spoke,
but collectively they makeup one valuable piece.
So part of that is, is gettingthe right team together.
(10:44):
And if you meet a real estateprofessional, Who actually
has that vertically integratedteam that you're a member of,
they can liquidate assets.
They can provide a levelof customer service
that's at or above yours.
They act with integrity.
They consider themselves afiduciary, even if they're not.
But they can bring in, thebutcher, the baker, the
candlestick maker, and get allthe needs met of the family.
(11:06):
So they arrangefor an estate sale.
They liquidate thepersonal property.
They take the cash from thepersonal property, raise the
equity level and the realproperty by doing a renovation,
create a bridge loan by lettingthe contractor carry an invoice,
then they, they close it up.
The right real estateprofessional, I feel like
is, is, a godsend to thelaw firm because they can
add value at every singlestep of the process.
(11:28):
It pulls redundancy offof your office staff.
There's not constant emails andphone calls and like trying to
figure out cause that realtorhas proactively educated them
on what to expect, set a properexpectation and delivered
as they said they would.
And each of the otherteam members too.
I've had thousands ofpeople go through the class
and I hope that's makinga difference already.
I mean, We see it in ourcommunities, but I hope the
(11:49):
people that don't aren'ton weekly calls or out,
there's attorneys listeningto this, like, holy crap, I
got one of those cause we'vegot several thousand CPEs
throughout the country now.
And my goal is toreach as many as I can.
And I really want to includemore attorneys in this community
and in this conversationcause I really believe that
quicker we can, join forcesand actually approach this
consumer-focused service, thebetter the situation will get.
(12:13):
That wave of baby boomers cominginto the end of life phase.
There's tons of opportunitythere, opportunity to serve
at a higher level than youever have an opportunity to
monetize that at a higherlevel than you ever have.
Most people who are early intothis community, if they've
been trying this for a while,they'll come in and their tails
between their legs, they'reapprehensive to even visit
(12:33):
attorney or call attorneybecause they've went in with
a selfish one-sided offer, gotthe door, slammed in their face.
And for good reason, theywere just going and asking
a stranger for referralswithout offering a benefit and
something that you, I want,I'd like to hear from me.
Like how often doesthat happen to you?
Cause you.
Your MSA.
Do you get solicitationfrom, from real estate
(12:54):
professionals, investors,brokers, and how often?
Rilus Dana (12:57):
All the time?
I would say probablyfour to five a week.
Chad Corbett (13:01):
Call, a letter, a visit?
Rilus Dana (13:03):
Probably all these, a lot of them, they don't, they
don't get through to me Nowmy team started saving them
because they know that I'm likea real estate investor too.
So they've saved themas examples basically.
They'll set some aside.
But yeah, if you count all theplaces like you know, my law
firm website social medias,all the places four to five a
week, probably now the peoplethat I actually work with
(13:24):
is, when I've talked to otherreal estate professionals,
I say there's one guaranteedway into the attorney's office.
And what is.
Chad Corbett (13:31):
Bring her living trust referral.
There
Rilus Dana (13:34):
you go.
Hire them for whatthey're doing.
Right.
You know, They're, they'rereally simple people.
So just look and see exactlywhat they're in business for and
bring them that type of client.
Chad Corbett (13:43):
And there's two main kind of tactics that
I've, that I teach that I'vefound that worked really well.
You go through your pastclient database, sphere of
influence, wealthy friends,country club, whatever that is.
Find those 95% of Americansdo not have a living trust.
And the majority ofthose, if they're on the
upper income scale, theirestate will be probated.
(14:04):
I find those people in yoursphere that, that don't have
a proper estate plan in placeand say, listen, I just got
I really, really want to serveat a higher level this year.
So part of that is makingsure that all the people
that have trusted mein the past to be their
professional, their fiduciary.
One thing I never didn't do.
And I'm retroactively doingthis is making sure that they
(14:25):
have a proper estate plan inplace because I've started
to specialize in probate.
And I realized the mostvaluable service and probate
is to make sure your familynever goes through that.
So could I give you an hourto sit down with my friend, my
friend and my attorney Rilus?
Like if they're a high networth individual, they're
foolish to say no to that.
Then I go, I come throughRilus' front door and I say,
Hey, yeah, we don't know eachother yet, but we've got a
(14:46):
fun relationship ahead of us.
Let's start with this.
This is one of my best friends.
This is somebody I dearly trust.
I've looked into your office.
I like what you're doing.
Could you please provide themthe level of service that I
expect that they got from me?
What attorney isn'tgoing to respect that?
Rilus Dana (15:01):
Perfect.
That's, that's exactlywhat we want as a business.
Yeah, that's exactly whatwe're trying to bring in.
Chad Corbett (15:06):
If people are too intimidated to take action on
that, a little less threateningway that I've found that works
well is to actually approachthe attorneys with that
marketing collaboration offer.
It's (15:17):
We serve families and probate.
We've got a verticallyintegrated team of people that
help with literally anything thefamily could be going through.
We're looking for the rightattorneys to partner with
that we can actually featurein our marketing pieces
and endorse you as, as aprofessional that meets the
standard that our team demands.
Would you be able to sitdown for just a few minutes
for a quick brainstorm andwe can see where you might
fit into our marketing plan?
(15:38):
What'd you say no to that?
Rilus Dana (15:39):
I'd say send it.
My people I'll consider it.
I don't have time for asit-down, but I would love to
do some marketing together.
Chad Corbett (15:45):
Even if you didn't take the appointment,
I would have your marketingdirector or whomever.
It was, I would sit down.
I would deliver onwhat I promised you.
You would be in a letter orwe would make a postcard, or
we would do a collaborativepodcast or blog posts.
I would invite you to myFacebook community where
people in this situation couldask you questions directly.
And over the next weekor two, you will know
who the hell I was.
(16:05):
And you would know that I wasplaying at a different level.
And so those are just twoways that I've found that
are relatively easy to teach.
It's not as easy to getpeople to take action on.
And I prefer to do it in person.
I think that direct mail andphone calls to attorneys,
it can work sometimes.
But I've found that it'sfar better reception if you
have the courage to walk inand look someone in the eye
(16:26):
with confidence and explainyour offer and your value,
and then give something.
But don't ask on that trip.
And I was on average, Iwould say if I challenge a
hundred people to go talkto three attorneys, On
average, they'll come backwith two solid relationships.
The rejection, the fearof rejection is kind of
unfounded because not manyattorneys have been approached
(16:47):
with a valuable offer.
So they're kind of like,it gets them out of that
default mode network.
And they're like, whoa, thisis a different conversation.
Rilus Dana (16:54):
Yeah.
Chad Corbett (16:54):
And it's usually a really warm reception
that ends up in an houror two long conversation.
And I love getting thosecalls when people call back,
they're like, you're not goingto believe what happened.
Like I was in hisoffice all afternoon.
Like we had to order in lunchcause he just kept asking
me questions and people werejust lit up and I'm like,
see, that's what providingvalue upfront can earn you.
Rilus Dana (17:15):
That's great.
Another twist to that.
Look for their paralegals.
I agree.
Walking to the office is sopowerful, and if you have like
a plate of cookies or somesugar to something nice, so
they're happy to see you, right.
Hey, who is this?
We like this person.
Chad Corbett (17:28):
I coached a girl Uh, she was a licensed ISA.
She wasn't even the listingagent, but out of Richmond,
Virginia, they were oneof the top teams there.
And she, there was a littleItalian bakery down the road
and we were brainstormingand I was like, go get
Christmas cookies and do yourattorneys visits 10 for 10.
Like she went and bought10 things of cookies,
visited 10 attorney'soffice, and she's gotten
(17:50):
deals from all 10 of them.
And all she did, she focusedon the staff, not on the
attorney and she just lovedon them, gave them cookies.
She would drop by each season.
So she would go at Christmas.
She would go at Easter.
She would go at Valentine's day.
She would just dropin and renew that.
And just let them knowthat she was operating
at a different level.
(18:10):
She was differentiatingherself and providing value
to the staff, which ultimatelybreaks down the gatekeeper.
And they're like, oh,Rilus is going to love you.
Let me just put youon his calendar.
Rilus Dana (18:20):
Exactly.
Exactly.
So the attorneys get toomuch attention, but their
staff doesn't get enough.
You'll compliment the paralegal.
We know you're doing all thework anyways, you're, you're
the one we really want tosee and let them know here's
how we help paralegals.
So what I've told my otherfriends, like in, in the
community here they'll mentionmy name to other attorneys.
I warn them.
I'd be careful forbetter, for worse.
They may not be my fan, butlet them know ways that they've
(18:42):
helped my clients and reasonsthat my paralegals like them.
Yeah, they'll meetpeople at properties.
They'll deal withpersonal property.
organize estate sales, all thatstuff that makes me look good.
And it doesn't take mytime and I'm not paying for
someone on my team to do it.
I've been asking my attorney,friends, you know, like what
they do in this situation.
Yeah, when there is realestate and a lot of times
(19:04):
maybe they have a relationshipor they don't, they just
leave it up to their clients.
Now, whenever I get a lead frommy law firm, when we get someone
that calls us, I always ask.
And so is my paralegal.
They ask if theyhave a realtor yet.
and 80% of the timeone is already there.
They have already talked to arealtor or they're already aware
of at least one or two, andI say, don't hire anyone yet.
(19:24):
You don't sign a listingagreement yet because I always
like to explore the wholesaleoffer before they're tied up
with the listing agreement,where especially if the
property needs work, there'sfive kids, only one house.
What I caution against realtorsis, is they could have some
realtor promised them this highprice that they can get, sign
a listing agreement, but if themarket doesn't actually deliver
(19:46):
that price and then sell itfor a lower you're still locked
into that listing agreement.
Chad Corbett (19:50):
I did a deal where I was just shocked
at what came out of me.
Like I laid fouroptions on the table.
She chose a lease withoption to purchase and she
needed maximum price and sheneeded it right right now.
And I was able to checkboth of those boxes by
using creative financing.
But after that, that's whenI started to look and I'm
like how many people are inthis situation each month?
(20:11):
And I went and educatedmyself on probate.
Rilus Dana (20:14):
I love the creative finance.
I like working with realestate professionals
that have more solutions.
So as an attorney, you knowhow I look for real estate
professionals that's oneI'm looking for, how many
options does this person have?
Right.
Do they only have one hammerso everything looks like a nail
to them or did they got a wholetoolbox where they can, look
and see what this person needs.
also if they don't have itin their toolbox, so the type
(20:37):
of person that's going tosay, this is what you need.
You need this over here.
Not me.
Chad Corbett (20:40):
The first year I started in the Virginia
market, I back tested throughMLS records and 77% of estate
listings had expired becauseof exactly what you said, real
estate agents, I won't even sayprofessionals, but people with
license, were putting them intolisting contracts, not cleaning
(21:01):
the house out, overpricing it,the car mirror was in an iPhone
three photo from the road.
They didn't evenget out the car.
There was no lock box on itshowing by appointment only.
Like nobody wasgoing to that house.
Most people aroundhere would list for a
minimum of six months.
The majority I'd saythe majority is 12.
So you've got 12 monthsof the most valuable asset
(21:21):
in the estate being tiedup, incurring expenses,
getting in worse condition,more deferred maintenance.
And to me.
as someone who signed a pieceof paper and said, I am your
fiduciary, I think there shouldbe accountability for that.
That's not a very popularopinion among my peers in
real estate, but if you're outthere hanging paper and taking
listings grossly overpriced,they're not going to sell, to me
(21:43):
that's just weak salesmanship.
You, you don't have the courageor the strength to actually
tell this person the truth andshow them the real market value.
If you were a fiduciary,you would do that because
that's your fiduciary duty.
Right?
And a lot of people reallyscowl at me when I share
that, that, that opinion.
I'm pretty, pretty deep seatedin that because I've seen
the impact of the family.
(22:03):
I've had the tears on, myshoulder when I came to
clean up the damn mess.
And that first dealwas one of those.
So picking the right realestate professional is very
important for the attorneys.
Because if you get one ofthe, oh yeah, I'll do it.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I'll drop my listingcommission to 1% we'll
list it for 1,000,005.
Across the street soldfor 300, but it's probably
(22:23):
worth 1,000,005, and thenjust sit there and wait.
Three quarters of thelistings in this particular
market and in many marketsare expiring because they're
being overpriced and undermarketed and underserved.
And there's just no sense in it.
There's, there's,there's a better way.
Rilus Dana (22:39):
I think a lot of these attorneys, I have a
friend who's a fiduciary as afiduciary business to courts
and companies will appoint him.
But he had a listingin that situation.
It's about to expire.
And I was like, dude,there's other options.
If it's not selling on theMLS, you should look at
a wholesale cash offer.
And I, I basically had todescribe what a wholesale
transaction was to him.
(22:59):
You know, let them knowhe has other options
for things like that.
So now something that I talkedabout, some on my channel
and the other attorneysis how do you balance that
fiduciary duty, with withthe wholesale offer price?
Right?
I I'm licensed in Californiatoo, although I don't really
do probates over there.
I did this more estateplanning, their probates way
more of a pain because oneof the things that the pain
(23:22):
is you have to get a refereeand an appraisal every time.
And then the judge, you got toexplain why you didn't sell for
that price or, or what it is.
Arizona, they really don't care.
It's just thatfiduciary duty, right?
Once we get someoneappointed for the estate,
we're not required to getan appraisal on the house.
So usually if they're sellingit that the best appraisal is
what someone's willing to pay.
(23:43):
But if you don't list it onthe market, I learned this
from my friend pace Morby.
So now he's he's on a TV showand, the, create a finance guy.
But I saw he was doingthis with my clients, he
made an offer to buy it.
And he would offer to paya thousand dollars higher
than any other offers.
And then he had a nice10,000 earnest deposit.
(24:03):
So in that case, oneof the siblings was
represented by an attorney.
He had a friend thatwanted to make an offer.
And one of the other kidsalso had a friend that was
a real estate investor.
So we got all their offersand we took it back and
Pace was willing to beat it.
But I, I see it work allways where yeah, they're
willing to beat it.
And if so that'sour highest offer.
And, we had the fiduciary dutyto take the highest offer.
(24:26):
I had that other attorneyyelling at me why he didn't
take his friend's deal.
And it's like, youjust described that I'm
doing a good job for myclient as a fiduciary.
We, we got the highestoffer, so you're welcome.
I feel like the real estateworld is getting more
creative and more open-mindedand people are seeing that
there's not just everythingis just listed on the MLS.
Chad Corbett (24:44):
One, one student in one story at a time.
It's just how it is like Ichallenged myself shortly after
I did that first probate deal.
I shocked myself.
So I gave her four optionsand I didn't plan this.
I was selfishly going there tobuy that house because it was
in the neighborhood I had, Ihad moved from Maui to Virginia.
And like I'm like,yes, got my house.
(25:05):
I've only been here two months.
When I looked her in theeye, it all changed though.
I'm like, man, thisisn't about me.
And about this house forme, like this is about her.
She was devastated.
So walked through the house,saw valuable antique furniture.
Felt her out, realizedthat she needed as much
equity as possible andas fast as possible.
So a cash offer at 70 cents onthe dollar wasn't going to work.
(25:26):
I threw it out thereto create a new, I was
going to get the flinch.
And when I did, she'slike, oh no, we can't.
And I'm like, all right.
Perfect.
So now I've got acontrasting point, right?
I've got an anchor tomake the other three
options look really good.
And at the time the optionsare just rolling out.
I'm like, blah, blah.
But what we can do, we cansell it as is, whereas on
the MLS, no contingencies, Iwould expect we can have it
(25:48):
ratified within a week andprobably close within 30 days.
Option three is wesell it conventionally.
But first we go through, weempty the personal property.
We liquidate that we use thatmoney to do a cosmetic rehab.
We stage the home, we getpress professional photography,
and we go back out tomarket at a retail price.
So we maximize yourequity is probably going
(26:08):
to take 45 to 60 days.
And she, you could see itwas sounding better, but
she still had apprehension.
And I was like, butthere's one more thing.
And this is complicated,feel free to ask as many
questions as you need.
I'll try to simplify it.
I have a list of aspiringbuyers who can't qualify
for financing right now.
They've already been pre-vetted,we've been criminal credit
background, sex offender checks.
(26:30):
They have filled out afull mortgage application.
We know exactly whythey were denied.
We've got them incredit coaching.
What I would like todo is list the house at
absolute top retail price.
No contingencies, inspectionsare welcome, but it's still
an as-is where is sale clearcontingency and on the front.
And we're going to do thiswith a lease with option
to purchase real estate.
We'll take an $8,000 deposit,1100 1st month, 1100 last month.
(26:51):
And we'll close it within days.
And she was like, ohmy God, let's do that.
That's amazing.
Really, she didn't even havequestions like the, the, the
lease option done properly isnot the simplest paperwork.
At the time, Dodd-Frank wasstill a very touchy area
with creative financing.
It has since loosened up,but I was just shocked
(27:12):
that the most complex.
Tactic as the one thatshe was most attracted to.
And because I was focusedon her needs, she wanted the
most money she could get asfast as she could get it.
And that was the onethat really, you know,
met all of her needs.
I've tried to teach this.
After that I went home, Ihad a glass of Cabernet and
I'm like, what did I just do?
And how can I replicate that?
(27:34):
And I looked at all these junkprobate leads in my database
that I had been meetingwith for two or three months
and coming up short makingoffers, they would flinch.
I would try to refer itto a realtor or list it.
Myself, always broke rapport.
And what came outof that really?
That was, that deal changedthe whole course of my career.
And it taught me I was ateacher eventually, but
(27:54):
I quit being Chad, theinvestor and I quit being
Chad, the realtor that day.
And I just started to be Chadand I would always on almost
every single appointment I'vebeen on since I've offered
no less than two options.
Yeah, like I'll, I'll list itor I'll buy it, but usually
it's more options than that.
Like we can, we canhelp you transition this
(28:15):
to a rental property.
We can help get one of yourfamily members qualified so
they actually can purchasethe home from the estate.
We can help you, turn itinto a short-term rental.
We can actually partnerwith you, we'll do a land
trust we'll joint venture.
We'll establish a costbasis for the asset.
We'll bring the constructioncrews, the capital we'll take
all the risks at the end, wesplit it 50, 50 net, and I get
(28:37):
paid a commission on top ofthat for being a listing agent.
We lay all these options outthat they've never heard of.
Rilus Dana (28:42):
I would say, If you were referred by an
attorney, do you think theywould like that attorney.
Right.
So that's the type ofprofessionals that I look for,
because look at those options.
Right.
But look at what you gavethat, like, do any other, how
many other people are goingto offer that many options?
Chad Corbett (28:56):
Very few.
And if I had it my way,everyone who has a CPE
designation would do that,but unfortunately, I think a
lot of people are intimidated.
It takes critical thinkingskills and, and you've got
to have a good relationshipwith a real estate attorney
that can watch your assetsfor you and make sure you've
got the proper contracts.
Don't be intimidated guys, ifyou're inspired by this, by this
idea about this conversation.
(29:17):
Please go toward that.
Like we teach and in sessiontwo of probate mastery, I
teach like the full spectrumof everything you can do to
help a family ranging fromthings that are just like
getting a social workerto help a surviving family
member find suitable housing.
And in a short time, It'ssomething you're going
to have to do eventually,if you haven't already.
(29:38):
It's the failure to launchkid, who's 50 years old plays
X-Box and smokes every day andhe's not going anywhere unless
you better his situation.
So there's things like that.
Like we teach you how to do.
That just pure service thatyou're unlikely to monetize
all the way to making sevenfigure paydays by partnering
with the estate on a piece ofag land subdividing, do the
(30:00):
carbon gutter, and then, andthen sell it off to a builder,
innovation homes or whoever itmight be, or individual lots.
And I, I've coached peoplewho have taken up 150 200,000
hayfield and turned it intoa $2 million disposition.
The family made amillion extra bucks just
because he followed that.
He was a student and then Iran into him at a campfire
(30:22):
in Tennessee on a dirt bike.
We were riding dirt bikes.
And we started talking andI'm like, you can do this.
He's like, I'mgoing to go do that.
So he would do about twodeals a year with family
to inherited farm land.
He'd make a couplemillion, they would make
a couple million extra.
So there's so much you cando to help these people.
If you're willing to thinkoutside of the box and lead
with a servant's heart, lookingat yourself as a fiduciary
(30:44):
put their best interests,first, provide options for
them, and then you don'thave to sell a damn thing.
You give them a choice.
They choose how they'regoing to work with you.
They choose how you're goingto monetize the conversation.
But what's important tomy goal was the challenge
that I asked you to myselfwas how do I monetize every
real estate conversation?
I've got a mind map ofwhat that looks like, the
(31:07):
logic of it, where youactually, you're saying is
the real estate yes or no.
And depending on howthat branches, is there a
motivation to sell yes or no?
Rilus Dana (31:15):
So as an attorney, I I'm interested to see if
by similar what I go through,I talk to prospects, but I
started using real estate as adifferent lead source because
a lot of times that's themain source of the problem.
And that's going to be theanswer to what we do in the
probate, it's going to bedetermined by what they want
to do with the real estate.
Chad Corbett (31:34):
So while we're here, this is a graphic.
So what we teach in the course,one of the things, so you've
got your internal team, whoeverdoes prospecting appointments,
listing transactionsbut then it blows up.
This is your vendor team.
And, probate attorney is one ofthose people an estate planning
attorney, a probate attorney.
This is what a typicalteam would look like for a
certified probate expert.
(31:55):
This is a truly verticallyintegrated solution.
They can provide literallydozens and dozens of options
to these probate sellers.
So it's pretty hardto compete with that.
Yeah, this is howmy brain works.
On the left here, you've gotall the different lead types
that I've used this for.
The approach reallydoesn't change much.
The conversation changes, butthe L the line of logic doesn't
(32:16):
it starts with is a real estate.
Yes or no.
If not, then who is a referralpartner that can help a tenant.
Maybe it's somebody who ownsa self-storage facility, a
cleaning company, a pressurewashing company, a handyman,
somebody, everybody canuse help from somebody.
Right.
And this is the idea ofmonetizing every conversation,
(32:36):
but more likely, yes,there's real estate.
Is there a motivation to sell?
If no, most people will belike, okay, Junk lead, but
if there's no motivationto sell, is there debt?
And if yes paymentsare current, yes.
Get it through yoursphere of influence.
Maybe they can refinanceinto a lower rate.
Maybe they can invest inBitcoin by accessing the
(32:58):
home equity through a homeequity line of credit.
They need a livingtrust, don't they Rilus?
They need to sit down with aregistered investment advisor
and understand infinite bankingand how they don't need to
worry about loan approval.
They can buy a whole lifepolicy and loan themselves
money and actually paydown debt twice as fast.
They need an insurance broker.
We all do.
So even when you, when, whenmost real estate professionals
(33:20):
think they've hit a deadend, there's still one
more question to ask them,one more like if you can
continue to provide value.
There's debt, paymentsaren't current, and
we've got no equity.
Then we've got the opportunityopportunity for a loan mod
or referral to a bankruptcyattorney, or you can buy the
property from them and leaseit back to them if you're a
really risk-tolerant investor.
(33:42):
But that's the no side,the more common part of the
conversation is the real estate,yes.
And then we look at the debt.
Real (33:48):
this gives us some pretty simple strategies, right?
If they want to be outof this in less than 30
days, it's a cash offer.
Wholesale price.
If they've got 60 to 90, wecan go conventional listing
and get them more equity.
If they're unrealistic onprice or they just have
to get to a certain netfigure then we can do this
using creative financing.
(34:09):
We can maximize thatprice by not paying fees,
not negotiating with thebuyers, not doing repairs.
A mortgage and interestfree mortgage owner finance
contract or deed leasewith option to purchase.
If there's debt are the paymentscurrent yes or no, we basically
ended up at the same thing.
I'll spare you guys goingthrough every branch.
But what we're lookingat is this is the logical
(34:29):
framework that my brainis using when I'm having
an emotional conversation.
So I'm not saying areyour payments current,
do you want to move?
I get it.
Don't do that.
That's why I don'toffer scripts with this.
It's the art of having anemotional conversation following
this logical track, but youcan see, as I extrapolate this
(34:50):
out, there's no situation whereI get to a dead end and go.
I don't know what todo or I can't help you.
And that's what I challengeeverybody that takes
that takes my coursesand follows my approach.
I want to teach everybody how todo this because it provides so
much more value to the families.
Everybody makes more money.
The family makes more money.
(35:10):
The attorney makes more moneythan the real estate agent
or broker makes more money.
And it's just more fun whenyou're using creative solutions.
Even for your audiencelistening to this, if you have
a legal practice and you'relooking to connect with these
type of people, we've hadover 4,000 people certified
through this course that havelearned from that, teaching.
And it's like, it is a muchdifferent experience working
(35:32):
with the someone, a realestate professional that
thinks outside of the box.
They can be a transactionengineer on their feet and
they can do dozens of offerdozens of different solutions
to everyone they talk to.
Rilus Dana (35:43):
My friend Pace Morby has helped people with
creative financing solutions.
So there's a lot of peoplethat love me because of Pace.
Chad Corbett (35:48):
I haven't met pace yet.
You should probablyintroduce us.
I've had several people belike, do you know that guy?
You guys really needto know each other.
And Chris Prefontaineis a friend of mine.
He's also incredibly goodas, as a teacher in the
creative financing space.
What those guys are teachingand what we just looked at.
We're talking about a 90% growthin your transaction volume
(36:09):
because no lead is a junk lead.
If you get a conversation, youcan actually help that person
and monetize that conversation.
So I would love, we need tohave panel discussion with me
Pace and Chris Prefontaine,Joe McCall would be a good
addition to that, too.
Rilus Dana (36:23):
Yeah, that'd be great.
There's different opportunities.
Like one, one I'm thinking of isI had some clients, they didn't
think they could requalify.
They didn't have any creditand they had to sell the
house that they're in becausethere's multiple beneficiaries.
So he was able to find them likea seller finance deal to buy.
That's like one that comesto mind and they're like,
hugging me, like, oh my gosh,I've never thought we would
be able to buy a house again.
Chad Corbett (36:44):
Yeah.
Like, depending on thesituation, like the option
there, like, well, how wouldyou guys like to buy a home
and just pay a private mortgageand not have to pay for
appraisals and PMI and all that?
Well, that sounds great,but we can't qualify.
Well, that's up to me.
I'm the lender so I can buythis house from the estate
and lease it back to you.
And I pocket all that,or I can buy this house
(37:04):
and then sell it to you.
Or if you really don't likethis house, I'll take one of
the other houses I've alreadybought, or I'll go find
the house and I'll buy it.
I'll become your lender.
And over time you canbuy me back or you
can refinance me out.
Rilus Dana (37:15):
I'm trying to spread the word about seller
financing to my my client base.
So I, I have a pretty big listof legal clients who we've
done estate planning for.
And the scenario that I'venow seen a few times is
they have a couple of rentalproperties that are low basis.
So they depreciated it to zero.
They're sick of being landlords.
But they don't, they don'twant to take the tax it, if
(37:37):
they sell, they don't wantto pay all the capital gains
and then they don't knowwhere to reinvest the money.
I think a seller financeis a perfect situation.
It is.
Chad Corbett (37:45):
And you're an attorney.
You probably havethought of this.
If they're held in an LLC, youcan actually acquire the LLC and
not transfer a title and triggera taxable, a taxable event.
So they can actually, the LLCholds title to the real estate.
It's a business transaction,not a real estate transaction,
and they can take it tothe capital gain without
the depreciation recapture.
Rilus Dana (38:07):
That's good to know.
There's ways around thatdepreciation recapture,
because that can betough for people that are
recaptured depreciation.
Chad Corbett (38:14):
Yeah, it's just, it's, it's a deferral game.
It's coming back at you andmost of the asset class.
Rilus Dana (38:20):
I had an estate planning client come see
me, that I'm actually goingto pitch seller financing
to after thinking about asituation for awhile, but he
has nine properties in Arizona.
He was wanting to give to hisgrandkids and he wanted to
have his grandkids run them.
And I'm like,that's a nightmare.
That, that is a nightmarehaving multiple.
And it's like this,this is great.
(38:41):
What you've built.
And he also had in your infinitebanking and he was trying to
force that upon his grandkids.
This is a great scenario,but you know I think
this guy might've beenan engineer by trade too.
Sometimes they're kind of overanalytical and his poor wife
wasn't on board with that.
Right.
She was trying to simplify ittoo, because I was showing him
like my best case scenario, ifit works, how you want, you're
(39:03):
talking about four differenttrustees that are going to
manage this and manage business.
Their fees are notgoing to be small, even
if it goes perfectly.
I was thinking about it moreand I'm going to call them
back and be like, if theresult you're trying to achieve
is, they're not be able tosell the properties and not
have a lump sum of cash.
And you want to guaranteean income stream?
I think a sellerfinance situation could
(39:24):
be a perfect option.
You'll help sell hisportfolio and just hold
the notes in his trust.
And his grandkids inheritthose notes that entitled
them to the payments.
Chad Corbett (39:35):
Good strategy.
Rilus Dana (39:36):
Yeah, I, I want, I want more people to become
aware of this because a lotof times they they only know
what the realtor says andthe banker says, and they
say, you can't do that!
Chad Corbett (39:46):
Yeah, "I've never heard of that,
therefore it must be illegal!"I find it very easy to explain
to the families because whatyou're saying is so different.
They, they trust you.
Like, they're like,wow, this guy knows
what he's talking about.
I think I trust him andthey typically don't
have that many questions.
I make it a point toalways structure creative
financing deals and thepresence of an attorney.
(40:06):
So if they have questions,I'm not put in a position
where I could be perceivedas practicing law.
I just go sit at a conferencetable, my real estate attorney
is happy to sit there.
Usually he doesn't haveto answer many questions.
But I find the most difficultthing about creative financing
is cooperating with otherbrokers, agents or brokers.
And they're just determinedthat it must be illegal because
(40:26):
their broker didn't teachthem that, or it wasn't in the
real estate school handbook.
I should have learned everythingin those 60 hours of education.
And it's frustrating to me.
I had to interview probably12 brokers before one would
allow me to hang my licenseand my license has been
hanging there for 12 yearswithout a single thing.
Like I've run mybusiness with integrity.
It's important to me, butthere are so few people
(40:47):
who will venture into thecreative financing space,
because someone has convincedthem that little voice in
their head, their broker,their, whoever it might be.
They've been convinced that it'sa shyster game and it's illegal.
And then you're just, it'sjust a matter of time until
you get to go to prison fordoing owner financing deal.
It couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
Like.
The practitioners.
And I know people like PaceMorby, Jim Krautkramer out
(41:09):
of Charlotte, and ChrisPrefontaine, and Joe McCall.
These are all guys that, thatare teaching this different,
different strategies withinthat space, but they've been
doing it for decades andthey've never been pinched.
Like they, they doit with integrity.
They put service first.
And, they make absurd amountsof money, but they earned that
like they educated themselvesand provided real value.
(41:31):
So if you guys find thisconversation interesting, I
challenge you and encourageyou to learn at least one
creative financing tacticeach quarter this year.
So if you don't know how todo a wrap or a subject to,
or a land contract for deedlease with option to purchase.
Find a mentor, find a book,but find a way to build
(41:51):
that into your skillset asa real estate professional.
It will just make it somuch easier to get in with
attorneys like rabbits thatare like, oh, okay, well, I
got my, I got my two guys butneither one of them do this.
So I'm going to makeroom on the team for you.
Like if somebody comes in thatcan get the difficult deals
done and we haven't even gottenin the title issues and like
(42:12):
reverse mortgages and HECMloans and how to navigate that.
Like, I don't know what yourexperience has been, but the
majority of families thatI see that have a reverse
mortgage on the house.
Typically, they're stillpissed off that mom and dad
did that because they advisedthem not to and they just put
their head in the sand andlet it roll the foreclosure,
even if there's equity and inthat example where if you had
(42:35):
that guy on your dream team,he is a seasoned investor.
He's risk-tolerant he knowsthat I've got a 90 day window.
I'll come in, buy cash forit, sub2 transaction, title
transfers with the firstposition lien in place.
And then I'll refinance itthrough my community bank as
soon as I get a tenant in thereand I can show them that I have
(42:56):
a 1.2, five debt coverage ratio.
Boom.
He took a deal that wasgoing to go to foreclosure.
The family was going to giveup the equity and you turned it
into a deal for that investor.
And that investor he helpedyour firm be able to close
that probate deal out becausethe assets are disposed of.
When you can think outsideof the box attorneys and real
estate professionals, it's justa hell of a lot more fun to
(43:18):
like transaction engineeringis like my favorite game.
It's like, Ooh,can you stump me?
I've had a really goodtime learning that.
And in the probate space,creative financing is more
complicated because you notonly have to understand the
real estate law, you betterunderstand probate law too.
And what that timelinelooks like in your state and
what you're getting into.
Like As Rilus said, one of thetactics I've used is pump up a
(43:41):
big fat earnest money deposit.
So you stand out fromall the other offers.
Well, if you're in California,throw down 10 grand and earnest
money and, and the closingis subject to court approval.
You might be out 10grand for 10 months.
So make sure you understandthe market you're working in.
In Probate Mastery we teachyou kind of the macro and then
(44:01):
show you how to get the microknowledge, like that local
probate process knowledgethrough the probate clerk, the
probate code, probate attorneys.
It's a little more complexthan the probate space,
but certainly doable.
I've taught hundredsand hundreds of people.
I wish I could say thousands,but hundreds have actually
taken action on that.
So they're out there like the,the right practitioners, but.
Whereas, I know you hadto jump and we're just
(44:23):
past the top of the hour.
Like I said before we started,I think we could do a series
that would go on for days.
I'm excited to have you aspart of the community, man.
I really appreciate thevalue that you provide.
You I've seen, you share inthere, you contribute and
that's what it's all about.
Anything you want tosay as we close out.
Tell them how toget ahold of you.
Yeah.
Rilus Dana (44:41):
So thanks for having me happy to be a
part of this community.
I'd love to come back.
I'd love to give my take as aprobate attorney and to help
this community because I feellike this, you know, the real
estate professionals thatreally helped my law firms.
So this is great for theattorneys in your network.
Uh, best place tofind my contact info.
You can go to RilusDana.com.
So my first and last name,that it has links to all
(45:03):
my different websites.
So we're where Ipractice law in Arizona.
Attorneys, you can share, ifyou have attorneys in your
networks, you can share withthem my MAAT legal site, where
I have continuing educationclasses on there including
how they can work withreal estate professionals.
Chad Corbett (45:17):
Yeah.
Well, listen, thanks somuch for your time guys.
I think this is probablythe first of a series or
many, many calls, possiblyeven ongoing calls.
If you've gotten value from thisand you enjoyed it, please be
sure and drop in the commentsanything that you might like
to hear us touch on next.
Is there anything you werewaiting for us to get to that
we didn't, that, just a burningquestion, like something
you're interested in, somethingyou've been intimidated about?
(45:38):
Drop some questions in thecomments, so that way we
know how we can bring valueto you guys on future calls.
So thanks so much for beingpart of this community and
tuning in today and Rilus thankyou so much for your time.
I appreciate you being here.
Rilus Dana (45:50):
Thanks, Chad!
Chad Corbett (45:51):
Have a good day, guys.
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