June 2, 2021 • 53 mins
In this episode artist Nerissa Tutiven, from New York talks openly about life experiences and two momentous divine connections and a spiritual awakening that has shaped her art.
Knowing from the age of five that she wanted to be an illustrator, Nerissa shares her journey of creative expression and her sense of creative discovery while navigating through life.
Offering a range of creative services this incredible energy paints stories revealing the divine feminine and is also looking to transition into an interpretive dancer.
Guest: Nerissa Tutiven
Host: Urmi Raval
Sound Editor: Maja Pronko
Final Thoughts & How to Get Involved
If this episode resonated, I’d love to hear from you. These stories are a reminder that deep transformation is possible, even from the most difficult places.
If you're ready to explore therapeutic coaching or want to understand how it could support your journey, get in touch. This work can be truly life-changing. Get in touch with me for a Discovery Call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Welcome to the CreativitySeries, where we explore
creativity as a humanexperience.
(00:24):
Hello, welcome to this episodeof Eternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
And this is the last episode inthe creativity series.
I have to say this series hasbeen an absolute joy.
It's been so delightful just toput together, prepare and
connect and reach with some ofthe most amazing people.
(00:47):
Thank you for your continuedsupport and for listening.
It really, really is.
It astonishes me week by week asthings develop and change how
people how committed you are tolistening and how phenomenal the
guests are.
As we head over into thisepisode, it's definitely an
interesting episode.
(01:08):
In this conversation, you'llhear me talking to professional
creative Narissa Tutaben.
And I really hope that you canlisten to her story and hear
where she's coming from, becauseI absolutely love was
captivated.
Nerissa is an incredible energyshe really really speaks so
(01:33):
openly and actually with so muchdepth and clarity of her feeling
and experience about being in aplace where she has always been
allowed to creatively be Andthen what happened to her as the
challenges of life expectationtook over?
(01:53):
I mean, she is in an incrediblydifferent place right now.
But as I was listening to her, Ijust remember feeling just
absolutely captivated in herstory and actually connected
just so many things that came upfor her because the things that
come up for her are actuallythings that come up for all of
us.
(02:13):
Some of us on an everyday basis,some of us at key points and
stages in our life.
But ultimately, when it comes toconnecting with yourself as a
creative source, make sureyou're open to that because that
is is where the magic is.
Remember, like Eternal ParadigmPodcast, follow on Instagram.
(02:34):
Remember, there's the Facebookgroup.
Come and join us.
Enjoy the episode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Yes, I am in the US, in New Jersey.
I live about 15 minutes outsideof lower Manhattan.
I'm really happy to be here.
I am a painter, mostspecifically an illustrator.
I'm also a branding and chakrahealing coach.
That's also part of my spectrumof things that I do.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Thank you for adding that in because that's such a
significant, almost like part ofthis puzzle of where you're at
right now.
So Cher Cher, what's happened inlife?
How did you become theillustrator that you are today?
And everything that you justsaid, branding, chakra, to me,
they're almost like differentparts of who you are here.
(03:21):
And I get that.
But to someone who's possiblynot so familiar with how does
that happen to tell us?
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yeah, I was totally thinking about that before we
connected when I was havinglunch outside, that I really
want to be able to connect withsomeone and resonate with
someone who might be on aspiritual or more specifically
creative journey, who is reallylooking for some sort of solace
(03:49):
or anchor.
I think...
One good thing to hub on is thatI studied at the University of
the Arts in Philadelphia here inthe U.S.
I always knew from a young agethat I wanted to be an artist.
I most specifically, like I saidearlier, wanted to be an
illustrator.
And I sort of made thatconnection through reading when
(04:11):
I was younger and readingchildren's books and then
basically asking, like, what isthe name of the person that
paints the pictures in thebooks?
From that moment, I knew anddecided, like, I want to be an
illustrator.
And then I attended university.
And then my path just started tounravel through that.
It was a lot of touch and go andfeeling through.
(04:33):
But essentially, I didn't startcreating the content that I
create now until I turned about27 years old.
And I'm 34 now.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
When you said initially that you're 34, I
still thought you were like inyour 20s.
You're probably like, what, 21,22?
And do you get that a lot?
All the time.
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Hey, it's flattering, right?
I've finally begun to like it.
Okay.
Yeah, just in the last like twoyears.
But my whole 20s was agonizingbecause I was in a way like not
taken seriously just because Ilooked.
So I felt through that my whole20s.
(05:14):
It was not as fun as peoplewould think.
It was almost like I had toprove that I was mature enough,
which nine out of 10 times juststill didn't transcend.
I think because of my voicelevel.
I don't know.
But I'm finally enjoying it now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
What you just said about your experience of having
to feel your way through it inyour 20s, that must have been,
that's quite big because at thatstage you're transitioning into
adulthood and there's a lot ofexpectation there of what's
expected of you.
And yet you were already at thatstage having this battle of
expectation and reality andpeople's perception of you.
(05:55):
That's quite a difficult spaceto be in.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Yeah, you know what is interesting for me?
I'm a Capricorn.
And so it's said, like in onesort of aspect that Capricorn
people are born older, and thenslowly get younger in a sense of
like, I guess the way that weshow up in the world.
(06:18):
And so my younger sister is nowshe's five years younger than
me, will always say, when wewere younger, your vocabulary
and the way you were carryingyourself and everything, you
were like a 30 year old person.
And now I accredit this to myart experiences and upbringing.
(06:39):
But she's like, now you're like12 year old girl.
I don't understand all thesethings.
But when I learned that, I waslike, okay, I do feel like this
is kind of a quality about me inregards to how I exude energy
and things like that.
But yeah, just in like athree-dimensional world, being
in my 20s was very difficultbecause of the way that I
(07:03):
looked.
And then also, I think at thesame time, my intellect is still
adult, is still very depth-y.
But the way that I show up ismore joyful and lighthearted.
So that was like an aspect of ittoo.
But I think right afteruniversity, when I started my
(07:24):
first full-time job is when thetests started to happen.
And that's where I had to provemyself and do different things
to really be heard andunderstood, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Thank you for putting all of that into
context.
And I liked your use of the worddepthy because I love the words
because we spoke earlier andthere was another brilliant
word.
Would you just share that word?
Synchronosities.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
I mean, this is genius.
I was thinking about that justbefore too.
Synchronistic.
And I think the word that I'mlike, Hubbing together, it's
synchronistic andidiosyncrasies.
So that shapes one word that Ifeel like would highlight these
points in life where things lineup.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
I love putting words together, especially when you
create them because they almostrepresent where you're at at
certain points in your life.
So I'm all for that.
Moving on, you're in the worldof work now.
We're going back.
You're in the world of work andyou're navigating this new
terrain, this existence of whereyou're at.
What happened to you at thatstage?
(08:34):
Run me through what things werelike when you were trailing
along, doing everything that youdo to be in the adult world.
And then what happened?
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
So again, I grew up outside of New York City.
I guess in the early 2000s iswhen I was in high school.
And so our, a young person'sperception of the next stage of
adulthood and also a successfullife is getting a very career
centric corporate world job,being able to rent an apartment
(09:06):
either in Manhattan or close toManhattan and You know, this is
the goal, the dream.
And then having essentially, Ilike to say, like a sex in the
city lifestyle, like CarrieBradshaw, that was all of our
dreams.
That was essentially what wewere aspiring to.
So I went to art school inPhiladelphia.
I was very organized, very ontop of my schoolwork and doing
(09:30):
well and being very driven.
And so once I graduated, also,it might be important to note
that I was the only one of mypeer groups who went to art
school from high school, whereasall my other girlfriends and guy
friends went to state schools orother big name schools here in
the US, studied things likemarketing or finance or even
(09:53):
health and medical fields.
So once we all graduated, thenit was time to get our jobs
done.
Right after school, I signed upwith a recruiter.
My mother actually connected mewith one and I signed up with
them.
And about three months aftergraduation, I was placed at my
first job, got a full-time offerthe October after graduation.
(10:15):
That was interesting because Ihad also the summer prior
interned in Manhattan at afashion magazine.
They're called Nylon.
I don't know if you know them.
They're very trendy and sort ofindie, really cute magazine.
So I had interned there,non-paid for free for the
summer.
That was like a huge thing forme.
(10:36):
I was like, oh, I really want towork for a magazine, like
amazing.
Then being there, there was justone afternoon where my art
director shared with me herwebsite, which had a link to her
resume, which I just checked outfor fun and saw she had listed
on there her in She was the artdirector for the graphic design
(11:00):
web department at this verywell-known magazine.
And she wrote that she wasmaking 32K annually here in the
U.S.
in New York City.
I don't know if you know likeright away what that equates,
but it's not anywhere nearenough to have a lifestyle here
in New York in this area.
Also, I graduated with a prettyhefty sum of student loans,
(11:24):
about 90 grand.
So I was just very anxious aboutthat.
And I wound up getting with therecruiter and then getting
placed at my corporate job andthen just stepping away from
that option and then steppinginto this option because it felt
a little more grand.
And then to say that, that wasjust what created the new
(11:45):
framework of my life, which Iwas actually still in art.
I was a commercial productdesigner.
And then I just started to stepinto this framework of real
world adulthood, earning asubstantial income.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Just to reflect on what you've said is so
important, right?
Because you've talked about thesalary, being able to survive on
a salary, doing clearly what theperson whose resume you checked
out was doing what they lovedoing, right?
But they love doing this, yetthere's no value there.
(12:18):
Yes.
You can't survive on that.
And that's a realization, right?
It was definitely a double-edgedsword
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
because...
I was also raised to really playit safe and to just really have
all of the things on paper andthe visual things and all of
that in place so that everythingequates properly in the physical
world.
But in reflection, it also, Ibelieve that that was just my
mindset at the time.
(12:47):
So maybe I could have made itwork in a sense, but I guess I
probably would have wound upstaying home with my parents for
like an extra four to fiveyears.
Whereas with the job that Ichose, I was able to move out
faster and have that lifestylethat I was wanting much earlier
because I got my first apartmentat 22 or 23.
(13:09):
I
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
totally get that.
And that makes sense for so manypeople.
I want to fast forward almost.
We have talked about thespiritual layer and this is a
really important, big part ofyour journey.
So what happened?
What was your awakeningexperience and when did it
happen?
What culmination of things ledyou to that point?
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
Well, it was really magical.
It also had a lot to do with mygrandmother.
I was raised in New Jersey andMy dad is an immigrant and my
mom is first generation.
Half of my family is fromEcuador.
The other half is from PuertoRico with New York City in
between.
I guess it's important to saythat my father's side of the
(13:56):
family very much grew up in theChristian Protestant church
within Ecuador, which is alittle bit small, I believe,
because I believe the mainreligious group in Ecuador,
well, it's definitely half andhalf.
because there's an amazingindigenous community there.
But in regards to the morecity-centric communities and
(14:18):
blended communities, it's, Ibelieve, Catholicism.
And then my mother was raised inthe Catholic Church as a Puerto
Rican woman growing up in NewYork, New Jersey.
So I had these leitmotifs in mybackground of Christianity and
very, I want to say strongChristianity, but not, what's
the word, fanatic.
(14:39):
Just very healthy and wholesomeand good to a sense.
But that was my family lineage,that whole history.
So I grew up here in New Jerseyand I was brought up with the
tradition and custom to go tochurch every Sunday.
So that was my life from birthtill about 19, once I went to
(15:02):
university.
I don't want to speak foreveryone, but I think a lot of
people wind up going away tocollege and just totally
forgetting everything of theirchildhood and then just deeply
immersing themselves in this newexperience and these new friends
and just All these new thingsthat give them a wider or
(15:22):
different sense of the world.
So that was my collegeexperience.
And like I said, I went toschool in a city in
Philadelphia.
So it was like very cultural,lots to look at, lots to learn
from.
That experience was just verylearning and inspired and very,
very open and free.
So then once I graduated andmoved back to New Jersey, I
(15:45):
started to then move into thisperiod, like I'm describing to
you, this very corporateexperience, this very organized
young professional experience,this is where I started to lose
myself a little bit, which Iguess is kind of ironic because
I had this structure.
But then at the same time, I wascompletely losing my soul, which
I feel like is like that thingthat happens, not for everyone,
(16:06):
clearly, but that thing that canhappen when you have a corporate
job.
Yes, I get you.
So my story culminates when Iwound up moving out of that
experience and into a newexperience which looked like a
few things.
I think like we were talkingearlier that it's important for
me to know my dark night of thesoul because that's what
(16:30):
happened towards the tail end ofmy corporate experience that
then eventually led to myawakening experience.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
I love the fact that you're describing all of this
and the language you're using isthe dark and the light and the
dense and heavy and I feel likeI'm going on this journey with
you and i feel like i've eitherbeen there or i connect with it
so much will you share thedetails of your awakening
experience because it's aprocess and when it happens it's
(17:01):
i i can't even think of wordsright now to describe it so so
take me with you what happened
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, my heart is beating fast just thinking about
it.
But I'm definitely grateful forthis, to be able to share it in
this context.
I guess the spiritual awakeningand spiritual journey began with
first an uncomfortability.
At around 22, 23, I startedgetting these pains in my body
(17:30):
that were not your typicalmuscle pains or joint pains
anymore.
It was specifically pains in myheart and then sometimes in my
stomach.
But I think the telltale signwas in my heart.
So how it started to look wasthat it felt like there was a
gaping hole in my chest.
(17:51):
It was almost as if like windcould pass through it.
So I was 22 and I was raisedjust like very 90s, very Spice
Girls, very just like having funand pop girl and putting on your
makeup.
And my upbringing was not verylike Let's contemplate the world
(18:13):
and think about where ouremotions come from and what
Plato wrote in the Grecian era.
There was not, unfortunately,that much depth of, I don't
know, integrity in theconversations I was having with
my peers when I was younger,unfortunately.
And so I wound up having thesefeelings and just being very
like, I don't know what'shappening anymore.
(18:36):
So my coworkers and peers at thetime were like, oh, you should
go get it checked out.
So they were also like, oh, wehave good health insurance.
Maybe you should go see apsychiatrist, get your blood
work checked, all of the thingsthat someone would do if they
were sick or experiencing pain.
So I stepped into that world andI started to see a psychiatrist.
(18:57):
I got examined for ADD.
It was very disjointed.
A lot of my coworkers were like,oh, well, you know, maybe you're
experiencing this or maybeyou're experiencing that and
just giving me some sort of likeopinions and advice.
Then I think it's superimportant to highlight that this
was about my second year into myprofessional job.
(19:18):
I began a relationship.
That was a very grounded andserious relationship.
That was also very much in thedirection of marriage and all
the things that come with datingsomebody that you love in your
20s.
A lot of integration with ourfamilies, going to visit his
family, learning more about hisculture, really beautiful
(19:40):
things.
Also, then what came with thatwas learning how to or trying to
manage the full-time career,which also came with a full-time
apartment and a full-time car,and then also this relationship
and this new family.
And then I think it's importantto note that I didn't get to say
(20:00):
in our previous conversationthat But I had also started an
art collective with two of myfellow co-workers who had also
studied and majored inillustration.
We were all women and we hadthese very advantageous goals
and dreams of just wanting tocontinue creating art.
Not continue, but essentially bethe artists that we, I guess,
(20:24):
wanted to be, which werepainters and gallery artists.
just a lot of grassroots thingslike showing at art fairs and
traveling and really living agrassroots artist's life.
So I was wearing these threehats and living these three
lives and just essentiallyexploring these different
things.
(20:45):
I think that that was sort of anissue.
because I didn't know how tonavigate all three.
And then this was also alearning experience because then
I had to learn a lot aboutprioritizing, which I think can
be super ambiguous for womenbecause of the way that we are
brought up and shown, especiallycoming out of the previous
(21:08):
generations, baby boomers andour grandparents and everything
like that.
So this lesson of prioritizingis what led to my dark night of
the soul because I didn't knowhow to prioritize.
And honestly, I think because ofmy age and because of where I
(21:30):
was at, I believed that myprioritization should be on my
boyfriend.
That led to me losing my job.
Excuse me.
I feel indigestion in my heart.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Absolutely fine.
Thank you for sharing that.
I know it's not easy.
And I was actually kind of likewiping tears away from my eyes
because I'm really...
you know, there's so much there,so much again, because you bring
up like, as women, how we'retaught to prioritize and
prioritization is loaded withculture, cultural ideologies.
(22:07):
And there are so many different,you know, it's like, but you
must do this.
It's what a good woman does.
It's how you show up.
And And so much gets lost inthat, yeah?
And you're already wearing thesethree hats and yet you have to
try and navigate you and whatseems to feel natural to do,
which is your creativeexpression.
(22:27):
Oh gosh.
Oh, I could just like, oh,honestly.
So in terms of where you were atnow, at this point that you've
taken us to, what happened then?
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Yeah, so I also, I think, I definitely lived a very
colorful life.
And I definitely lived probablya few layers, one layer of a sex
in the city life, one layer ofif anyone listening is familiar
with the show Girls from HBO,which is very focused on
(23:01):
Brooklyn culture and Manhattanand that sort of like not having
emotions and being very notconsiderate of other people's
feelings.
And then also just being veryabout trends and going out and
the scene and rock music and allthat.
And all of that, that wasanother layer that was woven
into my life.
And then also the super likeindie rock culture, which was
(23:25):
amazing.
Also very like smoking a lot ofcannabis, which is amazing and I
condone, but that was like ahuge aspect.
Going to festivals, the wholelike beginning of the new age
festival life.
And so it was sort of thesethree different threads that
were like a huge part of mycultural life.
(23:45):
So what happened was about threeyears into the relationship now
and about three years into mycareer, I was still experiencing
visceral pains.
So I came to a place where Idecided to do LSD and it was
actually my second time, but Iwas in a place where, well, I
(24:05):
had actually lost my job andthis was the year 2000.
which I believe I've heard frompeople was like a huge year for
people waking up.
I know a lot of people woke uparound this time of all
different ages.
It was like, I think there wassomething astro wise that
happened also.
Yes.
In March of 2013, I got calleddown to human resources and I
(24:29):
lost my job.
Then I was still with myboyfriend at the time and still
had my friends at the time.
And I had moved home back withmy family.
I had ended my lease on myapartment.
Also, my grandfather passedaway.
It was like a very odd, awkward,weird time in my life.
(24:51):
I wish I could say it was veryemotional, but it was more like
strange for me.
It was like I was walking inthis gray world.
And I know a lot of people saythat, but it was very much like
that.
Like it was a gray world.
Then I was so like, I had noanswers.
None of my friends could tell mewhy I had this gaping hole
feeling in my chest.
(25:12):
None of my family could reallyadvise me on what to do about my
relationship because they'revery much like they want me and
my sister And they want us tomake our own decisions.
They want us to just sort ofcome to these places for
ourselves.
But I think what they don't knowis that we actually do look to
(25:32):
them and in a sense do want thatguidance.
So because none of my familymembers were really saying, oh,
you should marry him or, oh, youshouldn't marry him or, oh, you
should move in with him or, oh,you shouldn't move in with him.
I was really like, well, I don'tknow what to do.
And my friend has this LSD hereat her awesome Brooklyn
(25:54):
apartment.
I just lost my job.
I'm going to just do LSD and seewhat happens.
So I did LSD that day.
This is about a month after Ihad been let go, lost my job.
Oh, also important to note, Iwound up breaking up with my
boyfriend that morning.
And it was sort of like this twonight journey where we went to a
(26:16):
concert together as a group.
And we were all there at thiselectronic music concert.
And these feelings in my bodyjust kept accentuating and
accentuating and accentuating.
I think by the end of that day,I was literally shaking.
I remember that trying to fallasleep that night and just
(26:37):
thinking of all these weirdthings in my head.
Like I was hearing animal soundsand there was like a lot of cat
sounds, which was really weird.
And I think another thing Iwanted to note to you, Ermi, was
that the evening before this,what I'm about to talk about,
and I do believe this was thehighlight of this experience,
(26:59):
was that I had this very eeriedream where And I don't want to
scare anyone who may wind uphaving this experience because
now I know in Native Americanculture that animals are very
significant, especially to thespiritual journey.
But I had this dream that thisbig black crow came down and
(27:20):
went to attack me.
I was in my physical body, likeI was in my bed.
I wasn't outside or anything ina different world.
And then there was a black catnext to me.
And this crow came down, went toattack me, but then attacked
this black cat that was layingnext to me.
(27:40):
Then as I was between sleepingand waking, I went to reach for
it.
And I feel like this was a layerof dreaming that I could talk
about more later, but veryvisceral, right?
And I go and I take the crow andI pull the crow off of the cat.
And then there's all thesefeathers over me.
And then I wake up and I'm in mybed and I'm panting.
(28:02):
So the following evening, we goto the concert.
I'm experiencing these things.
That evening, I go to sleep, allthese sounds.
And then that's the morning thatI wake up.
I break up with my boyfriend.
I'm standing there with one ofmy best friends in Brooklyn.
And we wind up finding the LSDthat we had hidden for another
(28:24):
festival and ingesting it.
UNKNOWN (28:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
After that moment and after that experience, I
basically with my best friendwound up going on this super
zany carousel, like Willy Wonkaand the Chocolate Factory kind
of experience.
That was essentially a full dayin Brooklyn of just traveling
all over and taking taxi cabsand then like finally coming
(28:48):
home and making food and stuff.
I think I was about 24 or 5 atthe time.
We chose to do that.
We put on big sunglasses.
And then we went off for thishike through the city.
This was very important becausethis is what essentially broke
me.
And so this, I believe, was thebeginning of my spiritual
(29:11):
awakening.
I think I used to reflect on italso like the...
I guess, I mean, I am an artistand so like sometimes it can be
like so dramatic with the thingsI write.
But I used to write in mysketchbook like the end of an
era, like this was the end of anera.
And so I was in my 20s.
It was sort of like this 20 to25 period was dissipating.
(29:36):
And so what happened that day iswe ingested the LSD and then we
went for a walk.
We went to an ice cream shopthat was really, really
delicious.
And then we sat outside.
We're sitting on this cementbench.
It's like the middle of spring.
It was honestly around thistime.
I think it was like Marchthough.
(29:56):
We're sitting there and we'relike laying down.
My friend Christine, she startsphilosophizing like, imagine if
our best friend Jeremy passedaway.
So I'm just laying there and I'mliterally like, I have no idea.
Like I can't even imagine that.
And then she starts reallyfeeling the emotions and she
(30:19):
starts crying.
And I just remember thinkinglike, I'm fucked up I can't feel
anything and that's like ourwe're like a triad us three like
that was one of our best bestfriends and so then we're laying
there and again this is myfriend Christine's maybe sixth
or seventh trip so she was moreaccustomed to it than me so
(30:40):
anyway sort of like taking itback we're laying there in front
of this sculpture like thisstatue and In Manhattan, and I'm
sure in London the same, there'smany pop-up architectures and
art installations that will justcome for a few months and be in
the city.
And so this was an installationof three women, three figures.
(31:04):
They were all...
believe the sculptor was AfricanAmerican.
So the women were very motherly,very warm and loving.
Like this was the type of femalethat this artist had chosen to
portray.
They were in these very stoicposes where I believe like one
was meditating, one was holdinga child, another one was in the
(31:27):
stoic goddess pose, like Africangoddesses.
And so I'm laying there.
I think I thought several thingslike, One, I was, this is
amazing.
And then two, I was like, I feelso disconnected from this.
I was like, I don't even knowhow to really, it felt very
(31:48):
beautiful, but very separate.
So this was my acknowledgementat the time.
And then we went on to grab acab and go into Prospect Park
and just go find a sunny placeto sit and like be hippies
together.
So we did that.
And as we're in the park, it'ssort of in and out of shade and
(32:09):
the wind is blowing.
And it's one of those likebeginning of spring days, late
afternoon.
And my friend Christine, and shejust looks at me.
And she's like, embraces me andshe goes, I love you.
And she's just pouring all ofthis love on me.
She's just like the sweetestthing ever, even though she is
also very like boss style andhardcore, but she's just pouring
(32:33):
all these emotions on me.
And I am just like, I don't knowwhat you're saying.
I literally can't even receiveyou.
And I'm just like, broken.
You know, when you're on LSD,it's like you can't really have
this moment of like, well, thisis how I feel and be very
grounded.
(32:53):
It's just kind of like youexperience these emotions and
you're either super happy orlike super freaking out.
And so that happened.
And I was just like this icecold person.
And then in that moment, Iremember my friend, she just
pulled back and then she waslike so sad.
I believe this was the firsttime that I had visuals on LSD.
(33:17):
So in that moment, what I sawwas her crying and melting.
It was all black.
She has black hair, but it waslike all black hair.
And then it was her mascara wasjust like running down her face.
And it was just when you thinkof a movie and it's very intense
(33:39):
and like it was just so Iliterally just saw all of her
feelings.
So then in that moment, Ibelieve that was my first being
able to see through the veil.
And I was just like, wow, Ireally hurt her.
And then also just recognizingall these things like I can't
feel sad about my friend Jeremy.
I can't receive this love.
(34:02):
I can't emulate this love.
And so then it was just a lot ofthat.
Then after that, we walked backhome to her apartment.
We're walking through the city.
Thank God she was a moreexperienced hallucinogenic user
because she was like holding myhand and she was like, don't
worry, we're going to get to myapartment.
(34:24):
I'm going to make food.
You know, it's going to be okay.
And then she's just like, don'tworry about it.
And so we get there, we go toher cute little like, you know,
we're in our 20s.
She has like the cutest littleapartment.
And we go there and I crawl upinto a ball on her bed and she
starts making ramen.
Then I remember watching thismovie, which was actually really
(34:45):
funny because it was Big Fish.
It's like this super whimsical,heady comedy that is like very
rooted in like, nostalgia andnonfiction.
That genre is like, I'm not asimmersed in it, but it's an
incredible film.
It's all about storytelling.
(35:05):
Longer story short, my parentshad to come pick me up in
Brooklyn.
I could barely speak and allthese things that were sort of
the aftermath of me breaking outof this really serious
relationship that I was in andalso transcending from having
the full-time job with all thethings to having like at the
(35:27):
time what felt like nothing andjust this very desolate part of
my life.
So yeah, they came to pick me upand then I went home.
And then I began this year-longprocess of being in and out of
therapy and taking at least sixdifferent narcotics, like
psychiatric medication.
(35:48):
Drugs.
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
I like that.
Yeah, just drugs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
I definitely associate the word drugs with
synthetics.
So that's what this period of mylife was.
LSD is definitely in thatcategory, but I guess we could
also say like Western medicinedrugs.
This was that whole stage of mylife.
SPEAKER_00 (36:07):
What happened to your creative expression at that
point?
Because now, like you said,you're very rooted in your
spiritual practice and you'resuch a Oh, I honestly, you're a
butterfly.
You are just, you have thisincredible lightness and
floatiness around you.
And when you're telling thisexperience of your life, even
(36:30):
though you're telling it to meand I can feel it because I am
that person, I can feelenergies.
Ultimately, your essence is so,it's just colourful and pure and
I love it.
Absolutely love it.
So tell me what was happeningbecause all your life you had
always been doing things in somesort of creative way.
(36:53):
So what happened at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
I am the person that does not make art from a
negative place.
So I'm sort of the polaropposite to like the Edgar Allen
Poe, et cetera, et cetera, likemy life is miserable artist,
which a lot of people were like,oh, you're depressed, just make
art.
(37:15):
This is gonna be the best startof your life.
Why aren't you lean on that toolthat you have?
And for this year and a half, Itwas like the worst for me.
It was literally like walkingthrough a world that was
completely black and white withshades of gray.
Literally just like...
(37:35):
And I don't know if you'veexperienced this type of
depression, and I know that youhave gone in and out of your
stages, but it was like being soisolated from everyone else
mentally.
It's like you're a differentperson.
It's like you're like an alienin another world.
And even no matter how muchpeople will tell you like, oh,
you're so amazing or like, oh,you're going to be fine or
(37:59):
whatever.
Oh, you're so young.
This is just a stage.
I couldn't receive that.
I couldn't receive that at all.
I was like, my life is over.
I'm a piece of shit.
I'm just like the worst.
That's what began.
I had two suicide attempts atthat time.
And the main reason was becauseI thought that I had ruined my
(38:19):
life.
And I think coming from a placewhere from an early age, I felt,
oh, I'm this creative and I'mgoing to do all these things.
Also, I think when I wasyounger, I was like, oh, I'm
going to be the woman that getsthis really great job and then
gets all her friends hired.
And I'm going to break thechains and be that person that
(38:41):
just CEO dreams, has a company,gets all her college mates
hired, creates this reallyawesome sort of freedom dynamic.
That was always my thoughts likefrom childhood to college up
until that time period so whenthis happened where I lost my
job I didn't even really touchupon my grandpa was in the
(39:01):
hospital and he passed awayright at that time it was
actually right before the LSDtrip and then I just realized
that I was like super unhappy inthis relationship I think my
main internal dialogue was likeI failed I I failed my friends.
I failed my family.
I failed myself.
I had accomplished nothing.
(39:22):
This was all of the dialogue inmy head.
So then I think at the worstpoint, it was I had gone out and
bought a bottle of pesticide.
And so thankfully, I didn't gointo the no self-mutilation or
anything too, I don't know,masculine.
But it came to a point aboutmaybe six or nine months out of
(39:46):
that LSD experience where I wasjust like, I don't want to do
this anymore.
And I had tried before to comeback and be myself again.
I had gotten this part-time jobat a yoga studio.
I was doing volunteer work.
I was working with two of myfriends doing creative projects
(40:07):
and painting.
I was painting.
And thank God for my friends atthe time, because they were
literally like, come over, we'regoing to paint.
Let's do this.
And they definitely, as hard asit was for them, because I know
they definitely went throughsomething too, because they
could tell I was like not allthere.
They definitely kept me afloat.
And so yeah, Through all that,it was just like, I didn't know
(40:30):
how to feel better for me.
I was like, I don't know how tofeel better.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And I was like, nothing is theanswer.
So I actually, I guess I couldlaugh about it now, but I wound
up getting fired from the yogastudio.
And actually, I wasn't evengetting paid.
It was one of those Dharmaexchanges.
(40:51):
Yeah.
I think there's another word forit, but you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (40:55):
Yeah, I got you.
Yes.
And so you're there, you'realmost like volunteering, right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
And you got to a point where even at that stage,
was it because of the internaldialogue and because you were
feeling the gravity of this,that even through this, even
though you were giving, it justdidn't make sense.
It didn't connect because thealignment wasn't there.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (41:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
definitely I know what you mean when you say you
laugh about it now it's notbecause you're going oh it was a
funny stage in my life but it'sbecause you're able to sit here
and reflect and go aha this iswhy yeah
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
I mean, like, I was just doing all of these things
to get back on the horse, Iguess, in regards to my career.
And I'm a Capricorn andCapricorns are really, career is
like sort of their main thing.
And I was at the point, asdepressed as I was, I was still
doing things and going for it.
(41:54):
And I had updated my resumes andI was actually cold calling
people and even going tocompanies and leaving my resume
with the secretary and all thisstuff and the thing was and I
think this is what will like tieit all together is that the
universe was like you are notgoing back into a corporate job
you are just like it's like wallup and then it was like probably
(42:20):
you need to figure this outbecause you need to get better
but you need to really connectwith that on your own you need
to find your own way and that'swhat I kept like fucking up yeah
SPEAKER_00 (42:32):
It's amazing how the universe was giving you these
signs, but at that point, atthat stage when you're doing
what you do as a highfunctioning depressive person,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
Yes, that's the best way to categorize it.
I totally get it.
So a year and a half out, Imoved to Jersey City and I'm
still with my partner at thetime.
And we get this super cuteapartment in downtown Jersey
City.
And all of the things startlining up again and lining up in
the divine way, you know, likealignment.
(43:06):
And what happened was we foundThis apartment that was in the
same exact neighborhood that mygrandmother lived in.
My grandmother lives in Floridanow and she was like East Coast
to San Francisco to Florida.
She lived a very diverse life.
And so, but long story short, wefind this apartment right in the
heart of the neighborhood wheremy grandma and grandpa grew up.
(43:28):
My grandma was hardcore Catholicand my father is Protestant from
Ecuador, which is like kind of aunicorn.
But my father is Protestant.
And so my mom essentially pulledaway from the Catholic Church.
And my sister and I were raisedin this very no imagery sort of
(43:49):
Christianity environment.
So meaning like no saints, nostained glass windows, no
ideation about Mary like at all.
It was like Mary was just likein the background.
She birthed Jesus and like thatwas it.
And so this was sort of thething that I was immersed at in
growing up.
So we find this apartment.
(44:10):
I'm still in and out of shadows.
I'm really still in the dark.
But then...
I had chosen to stay with mypartner at the time, which was
pretty shitty on my end, butalso in reflection, I think I
would not have gotten through itwithout him.
And he really kept me groundedduring the time.
And he was a good person.
We just weren't aligningproperly.
(44:31):
But so we're living together andI'm still having ideation at the
time of suicidality.
And one afternoon while he's atwork, I go for a walk and I have
my sketchbook and I'm drawingand And it's all a credit to my
friends for keeping me up withmy art.
I honestly, if it weren't forthem, I might have not been
(44:52):
doing art at the time.
And so I have my sketchbook andI'm going for a walk through
this neighborhood.
I walk upon the cathedral thatmy grandma used to go to.
That was her church, you know,that was her like grandma
Sundays.
You know, she was a mom at thetime, but that was like her
place.
So I'm standing outside of it.
(45:12):
And I literally had like, youknow, When you see a horror
movie and you see thosecathedrals and there's like a
crow outside and it's like, likethat was typically my response
to any Catholic church everbecause I was raised outside of
the Catholic church.
And because Mary was like suchthis no-no and it was just like
(45:35):
every horror movie depiction,like that was my preconceived
emotions about cathedrals.
So anyway, but this is duringthe day on a sunny afternoon.
I think it was like spring orsummer.
I'm with my sketchbook and Ifind myself outside of the
church.
And I'm like, I'm just going tosit here in the courtyard and
I'm just going to like be.
And I'm unemployed at the timeand there's no one around.
(45:58):
And it's just a very peacefulafternoon, like a three o'clock.
And so I'm doing these sketchesand then I decide to go inside
and And then I was going to yogaat the time and I was going to a
local studio and I was startingto have these breakthroughs and
I was starting to have theseglimpses of like, okay, maybe
you can go on from here.
(46:19):
And so with this afternoon, Iwas like all the things like I
had just described and I'm like,I'm just going to go inside, go
on one of those benches, be likethose old little grandmas, you
know, do some things and justlike see what happens.
and just sort of explore and soI do that and then I start to
(46:40):
have all of these awakenings andit's like all of these not
visuals yet but just like thesedeep knowings that I feel like
especially women find it waslike I have been here before and
my friends have been here beforeand like everything is like I
(47:01):
just started to see all thealignments in my relationships
All these things with my sisterand one of my friends having
like the same birthday, likethey're a few days apart.
Other things like alignments, Ithink is the best way to
describe it.
And just all these things andAnd then I was just overcome
with this feeling of, wow, we'veall been here before.
(47:24):
And some of us are evenreincarnations of really amazing
people, you know, philosophers,writers, advocates, all the
things.
And so I'm having these visceralexperiences and I'm in the
cathedral.
And I actually had my Jesusexperience before, but this was
(47:46):
different.
This was my Mary experience.
And so I'm feeling all thesethings.
And then I go up and I walk tothe front of the church.
And instead of going to thecenter, to the right, I go to
the left.
And that's where the Mother Marystatue is.
And I'm finally not scared ofit.
And I'm finally like, okay,maybe there is something here,
(48:06):
you know, things like that.
And then there was thisalignment to when I was in
Brooklyn and I was in front ofthose statues.
And I'm there and I'm feelingall these things and I wind up
very classically kneeling downand just really, really
releasing and really, reallyletting go and giving it up.
And as I'm there completelyalone with no one in the
(48:27):
cathedral, I'm crying and allthese tears are spilling on the
marble floor.
And in that moment, this bright,streaming thick light comes down
from from the stained glasswindow, bright green, like
green, not white, not gold, notyellow.
(48:49):
And it goes right into mypuddle.
And I'm like, I had just learnedabout the chakras.
And I was like, like, I waslike, thank you.
Like, It was just totally like,I was just like, there is a God.
Oh my God.
I am just like, like, it wasamazing.
(49:09):
And for me in that experience,what that meant for me was that
all is one.
All is tied together.
All is this one being, this oneentity.
And it was just like, Maryenergy like shined down on me,
but like essentially what itwas, was heart energy.
It was just pure love, you know?
And then just in that moment,Just of that simple thing, it
(49:33):
was like, bam.
I lost my suicidality.
I lost all the negativethoughts.
I broke up with my boyfriend afew weeks later.
All these things just because ofthat light and just because of
that color.
Color is amazing.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (49:50):
yes.
Color is amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (49:53):
So then a few days prior is when I had started
painting in acrylics again andwhen I had started painting on
canvas.
which is something I hadn't donein about six or seven years.
And I was really exploring.
I got really into just listeningto music while I painted, which
is something I had never donebefore.
(50:14):
I was like a very structured,like kind of just came from a
non-psychedelic family.
So art for me was more likesomeone doing math, like
homework.
And so I had really discovered,oh, I can paint to music.
I can stand up and I can paintvery free form.
And so I had started doing thataround, this was 2014.
(50:35):
I started having theseexperiences within my painting
where Jesus moments startedcoming to me.
And it was like, I was paintingvery figuratively, which is
something that is in my worknow.
I paint primarily stories ofpeople and experiences That's
sort of the main thread in myartwork.
(50:57):
And in this moment, at thistime, I would paint figures and
not too often, but I would getmessages.
There was this one paintingwhere I was painting a nude
figure.
And I had this download to likego up to the painting and like
really see it.
And this sounds weird, but I hada lighter with me because we had
(51:20):
candles and we also would smokecannabis from time to time and
had a lighter.
And in that moment, like I gotthis message to hold the lighter
up to the canvas and it wasn't abenevolent voice or anything.
It's just like a download.
And so I do this and as I do it,And this is a huge part of my
path.
But this light shines up fromthe flame, goes straight up.
(51:44):
And also, this is in the wombspace of the woman I was
painting.
And so it goes straight up, thenacross, which is like not
physically possible, right?
But anything is possible,especially in 2021.
Right?
And so it just takes that shape.
And I'm like, wow, because I hadalso been studying Ayurveda and
(52:08):
I was really at this timelearning about the gut biodome
and how our gut is our secondbrain, maybe even more so
important.
And I was so immersed in that.
For me, like this was verysignificant to say Christ is
inside of us.
This energy, this like creationenergy, is in our wombs and
(52:31):
that's where the light is and itwas just so intense that's what
has driven my art and that iswhat all of this work is about
now it's about reminding us ofwho we are and this light we
have inside of us also how todeal with these tragedies and
like how to really recognizethat it happens to a lot of
(52:54):
people also just this power thatwe wield and how we can use it
and And my paintings vary frommoments of realization to
moments of power.
And this is the thread in myartwork.
This was all started from thesetwo experiences.
It's just been this miraculousjourney ever since.
SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Eternal Paradigm.
I'd like to take thisopportunity just to remind you
that your comments, yourfeedback, and your listenership
is incredibly valued.
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Welcome to the CreativitySeries, where we explore
creativity as a humanexperience.
(00:24):
Hello, welcome to this episodeof Eternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
And this is the last episode inthe creativity series.
I have to say this series hasbeen an absolute joy.
It's been so delightful just toput together, prepare and
connect and reach with some ofthe most amazing people.
(00:47):
Thank you for your continuedsupport and for listening.
It really, really is.
It astonishes me week by week asthings develop and change how
people how committed you are tolistening and how phenomenal the
guests are.
As we head over into thisepisode, it's definitely an
interesting episode.
(01:08):
In this conversation, you'llhear me talking to professional
creative Narissa Tutaben.
And I really hope that you canlisten to her story and hear
where she's coming from, becauseI absolutely love was
captivated.
Nerissa is an incredible energyshe really really speaks so
(01:33):
openly and actually with so muchdepth and clarity of her feeling
and experience about being in aplace where she has always been
allowed to creatively be Andthen what happened to her as the
challenges of life expectationtook over?
(01:53):
I mean, she is in an incrediblydifferent place right now.
But as I was listening to her, Ijust remember feeling just
absolutely captivated in herstory and actually connected
just so many things that came upfor her because the things that
come up for her are actuallythings that come up for all of
us.
(02:13):
Some of us on an everyday basis,some of us at key points and
stages in our life.
But ultimately, when it comes toconnecting with yourself as a
creative source, make sureyou're open to that because that
is is where the magic is.
Remember, like Eternal ParadigmPodcast, follow on Instagram.
(02:34):
Remember, there's the Facebookgroup.
Come and join us.
Enjoy the episode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Yes, I am in the US, in New Jersey.
I live about 15 minutes outsideof lower Manhattan.
I'm really happy to be here.
I am a painter, mostspecifically an illustrator.
I'm also a branding and chakrahealing coach.
That's also part of my spectrumof things that I do.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Thank you for adding that in because that's such a
significant, almost like part ofthis puzzle of where you're at
right now.
So Cher Cher, what's happened inlife?
How did you become theillustrator that you are today?
And everything that you justsaid, branding, chakra, to me,
they're almost like differentparts of who you are here.
(03:21):
And I get that.
But to someone who's possiblynot so familiar with how does
that happen to tell us?
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Yeah, I was totally thinking about that before we
connected when I was havinglunch outside, that I really
want to be able to connect withsomeone and resonate with
someone who might be on aspiritual or more specifically
creative journey, who is reallylooking for some sort of solace
(03:49):
or anchor.
I think...
One good thing to hub on is thatI studied at the University of
the Arts in Philadelphia here inthe U.S.
I always knew from a young agethat I wanted to be an artist.
I most specifically, like I saidearlier, wanted to be an
illustrator.
And I sort of made thatconnection through reading when
(04:11):
I was younger and readingchildren's books and then
basically asking, like, what isthe name of the person that
paints the pictures in thebooks?
From that moment, I knew anddecided, like, I want to be an
illustrator.
And then I attended university.
And then my path just started tounravel through that.
It was a lot of touch and go andfeeling through.
(04:33):
But essentially, I didn't startcreating the content that I
create now until I turned about27 years old.
And I'm 34 now.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
When you said initially that you're 34, I
still thought you were like inyour 20s.
You're probably like, what, 21,22?
And do you get that a lot?
All the time.
All the time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Hey, it's flattering, right?
I've finally begun to like it.
Okay.
Yeah, just in the last like twoyears.
But my whole 20s was agonizingbecause I was in a way like not
taken seriously just because Ilooked.
So I felt through that my whole20s.
(05:14):
It was not as fun as peoplewould think.
It was almost like I had toprove that I was mature enough,
which nine out of 10 times juststill didn't transcend.
I think because of my voicelevel.
I don't know.
But I'm finally enjoying it now.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
What you just said about your experience of having
to feel your way through it inyour 20s, that must have been,
that's quite big because at thatstage you're transitioning into
adulthood and there's a lot ofexpectation there of what's
expected of you.
And yet you were already at thatstage having this battle of
expectation and reality andpeople's perception of you.
(05:55):
That's quite a difficult spaceto be in.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Yeah, you know what is interesting for me?
I'm a Capricorn.
And so it's said, like in onesort of aspect that Capricorn
people are born older, and thenslowly get younger in a sense of
like, I guess the way that weshow up in the world.
(06:18):
And so my younger sister is nowshe's five years younger than
me, will always say, when wewere younger, your vocabulary
and the way you were carryingyourself and everything, you
were like a 30 year old person.
And now I accredit this to myart experiences and upbringing.
(06:39):
But she's like, now you're like12 year old girl.
I don't understand all thesethings.
But when I learned that, I waslike, okay, I do feel like this
is kind of a quality about me inregards to how I exude energy
and things like that.
But yeah, just in like athree-dimensional world, being
in my 20s was very difficultbecause of the way that I
(07:03):
looked.
And then also, I think at thesame time, my intellect is still
adult, is still very depth-y.
But the way that I show up ismore joyful and lighthearted.
So that was like an aspect of ittoo.
But I think right afteruniversity, when I started my
(07:24):
first full-time job is when thetests started to happen.
And that's where I had to provemyself and do different things
to really be heard andunderstood, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
Thank you for putting all of that into
context.
And I liked your use of the worddepthy because I love the words
because we spoke earlier andthere was another brilliant
word.
Would you just share that word?
Synchronosities.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
I mean, this is genius.
I was thinking about that justbefore too.
Synchronistic.
And I think the word that I'mlike, Hubbing together, it's
synchronistic andidiosyncrasies.
So that shapes one word that Ifeel like would highlight these
points in life where things lineup.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
I love putting words together, especially when you
create them because they almostrepresent where you're at at
certain points in your life.
So I'm all for that.
Moving on, you're in the worldof work now.
We're going back.
You're in the world of work andyou're navigating this new
terrain, this existence of whereyou're at.
What happened to you at thatstage?
(08:34):
Run me through what things werelike when you were trailing
along, doing everything that youdo to be in the adult world.
And then what happened?
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
So again, I grew up outside of New York City.
I guess in the early 2000s iswhen I was in high school.
And so our, a young person'sperception of the next stage of
adulthood and also a successfullife is getting a very career
centric corporate world job,being able to rent an apartment
(09:06):
either in Manhattan or close toManhattan and You know, this is
the goal, the dream.
And then having essentially, Ilike to say, like a sex in the
city lifestyle, like CarrieBradshaw, that was all of our
dreams.
That was essentially what wewere aspiring to.
So I went to art school inPhiladelphia.
I was very organized, very ontop of my schoolwork and doing
(09:30):
well and being very driven.
And so once I graduated, also,it might be important to note
that I was the only one of mypeer groups who went to art
school from high school, whereasall my other girlfriends and guy
friends went to state schools orother big name schools here in
the US, studied things likemarketing or finance or even
(09:53):
health and medical fields.
So once we all graduated, thenit was time to get our jobs
done.
Right after school, I signed upwith a recruiter.
My mother actually connected mewith one and I signed up with
them.
And about three months aftergraduation, I was placed at my
first job, got a full-time offerthe October after graduation.
(10:15):
That was interesting because Ihad also the summer prior
interned in Manhattan at afashion magazine.
They're called Nylon.
I don't know if you know them.
They're very trendy and sort ofindie, really cute magazine.
So I had interned there,non-paid for free for the
summer.
That was like a huge thing forme.
(10:36):
I was like, oh, I really want towork for a magazine, like
amazing.
Then being there, there was justone afternoon where my art
director shared with me herwebsite, which had a link to her
resume, which I just checked outfor fun and saw she had listed
on there her in She was the artdirector for the graphic design
(11:00):
web department at this verywell-known magazine.
And she wrote that she wasmaking 32K annually here in the
U.S.
in New York City.
I don't know if you know likeright away what that equates,
but it's not anywhere nearenough to have a lifestyle here
in New York in this area.
Also, I graduated with a prettyhefty sum of student loans,
(11:24):
about 90 grand.
So I was just very anxious aboutthat.
And I wound up getting with therecruiter and then getting
placed at my corporate job andthen just stepping away from
that option and then steppinginto this option because it felt
a little more grand.
And then to say that, that wasjust what created the new
(11:45):
framework of my life, which Iwas actually still in art.
I was a commercial productdesigner.
And then I just started to stepinto this framework of real
world adulthood, earning asubstantial income.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Just to reflect on what you've said is so
important, right?
Because you've talked about thesalary, being able to survive on
a salary, doing clearly what theperson whose resume you checked
out was doing what they lovedoing, right?
But they love doing this, yetthere's no value there.
(12:18):
Yes.
You can't survive on that.
And that's a realization, right?
It was definitely a double-edgedsword
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
because...
I was also raised to really playit safe and to just really have
all of the things on paper andthe visual things and all of
that in place so that everythingequates properly in the physical
world.
But in reflection, it also, Ibelieve that that was just my
mindset at the time.
(12:47):
So maybe I could have made itwork in a sense, but I guess I
probably would have wound upstaying home with my parents for
like an extra four to fiveyears.
Whereas with the job that Ichose, I was able to move out
faster and have that lifestylethat I was wanting much earlier
because I got my first apartmentat 22 or 23.
(13:09):
I
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
totally get that.
And that makes sense for so manypeople.
I want to fast forward almost.
We have talked about thespiritual layer and this is a
really important, big part ofyour journey.
So what happened?
What was your awakeningexperience and when did it
happen?
What culmination of things ledyou to that point?
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
Well, it was really magical.
It also had a lot to do with mygrandmother.
I was raised in New Jersey andMy dad is an immigrant and my
mom is first generation.
Half of my family is fromEcuador.
The other half is from PuertoRico with New York City in
between.
I guess it's important to saythat my father's side of the
(13:56):
family very much grew up in theChristian Protestant church
within Ecuador, which is alittle bit small, I believe,
because I believe the mainreligious group in Ecuador,
well, it's definitely half andhalf.
because there's an amazingindigenous community there.
But in regards to the morecity-centric communities and
(14:18):
blended communities, it's, Ibelieve, Catholicism.
And then my mother was raised inthe Catholic Church as a Puerto
Rican woman growing up in NewYork, New Jersey.
So I had these leitmotifs in mybackground of Christianity and
very, I want to say strongChristianity, but not, what's
the word, fanatic.
(14:39):
Just very healthy and wholesomeand good to a sense.
But that was my family lineage,that whole history.
So I grew up here in New Jerseyand I was brought up with the
tradition and custom to go tochurch every Sunday.
So that was my life from birthtill about 19, once I went to
(15:02):
university.
I don't want to speak foreveryone, but I think a lot of
people wind up going away tocollege and just totally
forgetting everything of theirchildhood and then just deeply
immersing themselves in this newexperience and these new friends
and just All these new thingsthat give them a wider or
(15:22):
different sense of the world.
So that was my collegeexperience.
And like I said, I went toschool in a city in
Philadelphia.
So it was like very cultural,lots to look at, lots to learn
from.
That experience was just verylearning and inspired and very,
very open and free.
So then once I graduated andmoved back to New Jersey, I
(15:45):
started to then move into thisperiod, like I'm describing to
you, this very corporateexperience, this very organized
young professional experience,this is where I started to lose
myself a little bit, which Iguess is kind of ironic because
I had this structure.
But then at the same time, I wascompletely losing my soul, which
I feel like is like that thingthat happens, not for everyone,
(16:06):
clearly, but that thing that canhappen when you have a corporate
job.
Yes, I get you.
So my story culminates when Iwound up moving out of that
experience and into a newexperience which looked like a
few things.
I think like we were talkingearlier that it's important for
me to know my dark night of thesoul because that's what
(16:30):
happened towards the tail end ofmy corporate experience that
then eventually led to myawakening experience.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
I love the fact that you're describing all of this
and the language you're using isthe dark and the light and the
dense and heavy and I feel likeI'm going on this journey with
you and i feel like i've eitherbeen there or i connect with it
so much will you share thedetails of your awakening
experience because it's aprocess and when it happens it's
(17:01):
i i can't even think of wordsright now to describe it so so
take me with you what happened
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, my heart is beating fast just thinking about
it.
But I'm definitely grateful forthis, to be able to share it in
this context.
I guess the spiritual awakeningand spiritual journey began with
first an uncomfortability.
At around 22, 23, I startedgetting these pains in my body
(17:30):
that were not your typicalmuscle pains or joint pains
anymore.
It was specifically pains in myheart and then sometimes in my
stomach.
But I think the telltale signwas in my heart.
So how it started to look wasthat it felt like there was a
gaping hole in my chest.
(17:51):
It was almost as if like windcould pass through it.
So I was 22 and I was raisedjust like very 90s, very Spice
Girls, very just like having funand pop girl and putting on your
makeup.
And my upbringing was not verylike Let's contemplate the world
(18:13):
and think about where ouremotions come from and what
Plato wrote in the Grecian era.
There was not, unfortunately,that much depth of, I don't
know, integrity in theconversations I was having with
my peers when I was younger,unfortunately.
And so I wound up having thesefeelings and just being very
like, I don't know what'shappening anymore.
(18:36):
So my coworkers and peers at thetime were like, oh, you should
go get it checked out.
So they were also like, oh, wehave good health insurance.
Maybe you should go see apsychiatrist, get your blood
work checked, all of the thingsthat someone would do if they
were sick or experiencing pain.
So I stepped into that world andI started to see a psychiatrist.
(18:57):
I got examined for ADD.
It was very disjointed.
A lot of my coworkers were like,oh, well, you know, maybe you're
experiencing this or maybeyou're experiencing that and
just giving me some sort of likeopinions and advice.
Then I think it's superimportant to highlight that this
was about my second year into myprofessional job.
(19:18):
I began a relationship.
That was a very grounded andserious relationship.
That was also very much in thedirection of marriage and all
the things that come with datingsomebody that you love in your
20s.
A lot of integration with ourfamilies, going to visit his
family, learning more about hisculture, really beautiful
(19:40):
things.
Also, then what came with thatwas learning how to or trying to
manage the full-time career,which also came with a full-time
apartment and a full-time car,and then also this relationship
and this new family.
And then I think it's importantto note that I didn't get to say
(20:00):
in our previous conversationthat But I had also started an
art collective with two of myfellow co-workers who had also
studied and majored inillustration.
We were all women and we hadthese very advantageous goals
and dreams of just wanting tocontinue creating art.
Not continue, but essentially bethe artists that we, I guess,
(20:24):
wanted to be, which werepainters and gallery artists.
just a lot of grassroots thingslike showing at art fairs and
traveling and really living agrassroots artist's life.
So I was wearing these threehats and living these three
lives and just essentiallyexploring these different
things.
(20:45):
I think that that was sort of anissue.
because I didn't know how tonavigate all three.
And then this was also alearning experience because then
I had to learn a lot aboutprioritizing, which I think can
be super ambiguous for womenbecause of the way that we are
brought up and shown, especiallycoming out of the previous
(21:08):
generations, baby boomers andour grandparents and everything
like that.
So this lesson of prioritizingis what led to my dark night of
the soul because I didn't knowhow to prioritize.
And honestly, I think because ofmy age and because of where I
(21:30):
was at, I believed that myprioritization should be on my
boyfriend.
That led to me losing my job.
Excuse me.
I feel indigestion in my heart.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Absolutely fine.
Thank you for sharing that.
I know it's not easy.
And I was actually kind of likewiping tears away from my eyes
because I'm really...
you know, there's so much there,so much again, because you bring
up like, as women, how we'retaught to prioritize and
prioritization is loaded withculture, cultural ideologies.
(22:07):
And there are so many different,you know, it's like, but you
must do this.
It's what a good woman does.
It's how you show up.
And And so much gets lost inthat, yeah?
And you're already wearing thesethree hats and yet you have to
try and navigate you and whatseems to feel natural to do,
which is your creativeexpression.
(22:27):
Oh gosh.
Oh, I could just like, oh,honestly.
So in terms of where you were atnow, at this point that you've
taken us to, what happened then?
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Yeah, so I also, I think, I definitely lived a very
colorful life.
And I definitely lived probablya few layers, one layer of a sex
in the city life, one layer ofif anyone listening is familiar
with the show Girls from HBO,which is very focused on
(23:01):
Brooklyn culture and Manhattanand that sort of like not having
emotions and being very notconsiderate of other people's
feelings.
And then also just being veryabout trends and going out and
the scene and rock music and allthat.
And all of that, that wasanother layer that was woven
into my life.
And then also the super likeindie rock culture, which was
(23:25):
amazing.
Also very like smoking a lot ofcannabis, which is amazing and I
condone, but that was like ahuge aspect.
Going to festivals, the wholelike beginning of the new age
festival life.
And so it was sort of thesethree different threads that
were like a huge part of mycultural life.
(23:45):
So what happened was about threeyears into the relationship now
and about three years into mycareer, I was still experiencing
visceral pains.
So I came to a place where Idecided to do LSD and it was
actually my second time, but Iwas in a place where, well, I
(24:05):
had actually lost my job andthis was the year 2000.
which I believe I've heard frompeople was like a huge year for
people waking up.
I know a lot of people woke uparound this time of all
different ages.
It was like, I think there wassomething astro wise that
happened also.
Yes.
In March of 2013, I got calleddown to human resources and I
(24:29):
lost my job.
Then I was still with myboyfriend at the time and still
had my friends at the time.
And I had moved home back withmy family.
I had ended my lease on myapartment.
Also, my grandfather passedaway.
It was like a very odd, awkward,weird time in my life.
(24:51):
I wish I could say it was veryemotional, but it was more like
strange for me.
It was like I was walking inthis gray world.
And I know a lot of people saythat, but it was very much like
that.
Like it was a gray world.
Then I was so like, I had noanswers.
None of my friends could tell mewhy I had this gaping hole
feeling in my chest.
(25:12):
None of my family could reallyadvise me on what to do about my
relationship because they'revery much like they want me and
my sister And they want us tomake our own decisions.
They want us to just sort ofcome to these places for
ourselves.
But I think what they don't knowis that we actually do look to
(25:32):
them and in a sense do want thatguidance.
So because none of my familymembers were really saying, oh,
you should marry him or, oh, youshouldn't marry him or, oh, you
should move in with him or, oh,you shouldn't move in with him.
I was really like, well, I don'tknow what to do.
And my friend has this LSD hereat her awesome Brooklyn
(25:54):
apartment.
I just lost my job.
I'm going to just do LSD and seewhat happens.
So I did LSD that day.
This is about a month after Ihad been let go, lost my job.
Oh, also important to note, Iwound up breaking up with my
boyfriend that morning.
And it was sort of like this twonight journey where we went to a
(26:16):
concert together as a group.
And we were all there at thiselectronic music concert.
And these feelings in my bodyjust kept accentuating and
accentuating and accentuating.
I think by the end of that day,I was literally shaking.
I remember that trying to fallasleep that night and just
(26:37):
thinking of all these weirdthings in my head.
Like I was hearing animal soundsand there was like a lot of cat
sounds, which was really weird.
And I think another thing Iwanted to note to you, Ermi, was
that the evening before this,what I'm about to talk about,
and I do believe this was thehighlight of this experience,
(26:59):
was that I had this very eeriedream where And I don't want to
scare anyone who may wind uphaving this experience because
now I know in Native Americanculture that animals are very
significant, especially to thespiritual journey.
But I had this dream that thisbig black crow came down and
(27:20):
went to attack me.
I was in my physical body, likeI was in my bed.
I wasn't outside or anything ina different world.
And then there was a black catnext to me.
And this crow came down, went toattack me, but then attacked
this black cat that was layingnext to me.
(27:40):
Then as I was between sleepingand waking, I went to reach for
it.
And I feel like this was a layerof dreaming that I could talk
about more later, but veryvisceral, right?
And I go and I take the crow andI pull the crow off of the cat.
And then there's all thesefeathers over me.
And then I wake up and I'm in mybed and I'm panting.
(28:02):
So the following evening, we goto the concert.
I'm experiencing these things.
That evening, I go to sleep, allthese sounds.
And then that's the morning thatI wake up.
I break up with my boyfriend.
I'm standing there with one ofmy best friends in Brooklyn.
And we wind up finding the LSDthat we had hidden for another
(28:24):
festival and ingesting it.
UNKNOWN (28:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
After that moment and after that experience, I
basically with my best friendwound up going on this super
zany carousel, like Willy Wonkaand the Chocolate Factory kind
of experience.
That was essentially a full dayin Brooklyn of just traveling
all over and taking taxi cabsand then like finally coming
(28:48):
home and making food and stuff.
I think I was about 24 or 5 atthe time.
We chose to do that.
We put on big sunglasses.
And then we went off for thishike through the city.
This was very important becausethis is what essentially broke
me.
And so this, I believe, was thebeginning of my spiritual
(29:11):
awakening.
I think I used to reflect on italso like the...
I guess, I mean, I am an artistand so like sometimes it can be
like so dramatic with the thingsI write.
But I used to write in mysketchbook like the end of an
era, like this was the end of anera.
And so I was in my 20s.
It was sort of like this 20 to25 period was dissipating.
(29:36):
And so what happened that day iswe ingested the LSD and then we
went for a walk.
We went to an ice cream shopthat was really, really
delicious.
And then we sat outside.
We're sitting on this cementbench.
It's like the middle of spring.
It was honestly around thistime.
I think it was like Marchthough.
(29:56):
We're sitting there and we'relike laying down.
My friend Christine, she startsphilosophizing like, imagine if
our best friend Jeremy passedaway.
So I'm just laying there and I'mliterally like, I have no idea.
Like I can't even imagine that.
And then she starts reallyfeeling the emotions and she
(30:19):
starts crying.
And I just remember thinkinglike, I'm fucked up I can't feel
anything and that's like ourwe're like a triad us three like
that was one of our best bestfriends and so then we're laying
there and again this is myfriend Christine's maybe sixth
or seventh trip so she was moreaccustomed to it than me so
(30:40):
anyway sort of like taking itback we're laying there in front
of this sculpture like thisstatue and In Manhattan, and I'm
sure in London the same, there'smany pop-up architectures and
art installations that will justcome for a few months and be in
the city.
And so this was an installationof three women, three figures.
(31:04):
They were all...
believe the sculptor was AfricanAmerican.
So the women were very motherly,very warm and loving.
Like this was the type of femalethat this artist had chosen to
portray.
They were in these very stoicposes where I believe like one
was meditating, one was holdinga child, another one was in the
(31:27):
stoic goddess pose, like Africangoddesses.
And so I'm laying there.
I think I thought several thingslike, One, I was, this is
amazing.
And then two, I was like, I feelso disconnected from this.
I was like, I don't even knowhow to really, it felt very
(31:48):
beautiful, but very separate.
So this was my acknowledgementat the time.
And then we went on to grab acab and go into Prospect Park
and just go find a sunny placeto sit and like be hippies
together.
So we did that.
And as we're in the park, it'ssort of in and out of shade and
(32:09):
the wind is blowing.
And it's one of those likebeginning of spring days, late
afternoon.
And my friend Christine, and shejust looks at me.
And she's like, embraces me andshe goes, I love you.
And she's just pouring all ofthis love on me.
She's just like the sweetestthing ever, even though she is
also very like boss style andhardcore, but she's just pouring
(32:33):
all these emotions on me.
And I am just like, I don't knowwhat you're saying.
I literally can't even receiveyou.
And I'm just like, broken.
You know, when you're on LSD,it's like you can't really have
this moment of like, well, thisis how I feel and be very
grounded.
(32:53):
It's just kind of like youexperience these emotions and
you're either super happy orlike super freaking out.
And so that happened.
And I was just like this icecold person.
And then in that moment, Iremember my friend, she just
pulled back and then she waslike so sad.
I believe this was the firsttime that I had visuals on LSD.
(33:17):
So in that moment, what I sawwas her crying and melting.
It was all black.
She has black hair, but it waslike all black hair.
And then it was her mascara wasjust like running down her face.
And it was just when you thinkof a movie and it's very intense
(33:39):
and like it was just so Iliterally just saw all of her
feelings.
So then in that moment, Ibelieve that was my first being
able to see through the veil.
And I was just like, wow, Ireally hurt her.
And then also just recognizingall these things like I can't
feel sad about my friend Jeremy.
I can't receive this love.
(34:02):
I can't emulate this love.
And so then it was just a lot ofthat.
Then after that, we walked backhome to her apartment.
We're walking through the city.
Thank God she was a moreexperienced hallucinogenic user
because she was like holding myhand and she was like, don't
worry, we're going to get to myapartment.
(34:24):
I'm going to make food.
You know, it's going to be okay.
And then she's just like, don'tworry about it.
And so we get there, we go toher cute little like, you know,
we're in our 20s.
She has like the cutest littleapartment.
And we go there and I crawl upinto a ball on her bed and she
starts making ramen.
Then I remember watching thismovie, which was actually really
(34:45):
funny because it was Big Fish.
It's like this super whimsical,heady comedy that is like very
rooted in like, nostalgia andnonfiction.
That genre is like, I'm not asimmersed in it, but it's an
incredible film.
It's all about storytelling.
(35:05):
Longer story short, my parentshad to come pick me up in
Brooklyn.
I could barely speak and allthese things that were sort of
the aftermath of me breaking outof this really serious
relationship that I was in andalso transcending from having
the full-time job with all thethings to having like at the
(35:27):
time what felt like nothing andjust this very desolate part of
my life.
So yeah, they came to pick me upand then I went home.
And then I began this year-longprocess of being in and out of
therapy and taking at least sixdifferent narcotics, like
psychiatric medication.
(35:48):
Drugs.
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
I like that.
Yeah, just drugs.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
I definitely associate the word drugs with
synthetics.
So that's what this period of mylife was.
LSD is definitely in thatcategory, but I guess we could
also say like Western medicinedrugs.
This was that whole stage of mylife.
SPEAKER_00 (36:07):
What happened to your creative expression at that
point?
Because now, like you said,you're very rooted in your
spiritual practice and you'resuch a Oh, I honestly, you're a
butterfly.
You are just, you have thisincredible lightness and
floatiness around you.
And when you're telling thisexperience of your life, even
(36:30):
though you're telling it to meand I can feel it because I am
that person, I can feelenergies.
Ultimately, your essence is so,it's just colourful and pure and
I love it.
Absolutely love it.
So tell me what was happeningbecause all your life you had
always been doing things in somesort of creative way.
(36:53):
So what happened at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
I am the person that does not make art from a
negative place.
So I'm sort of the polaropposite to like the Edgar Allen
Poe, et cetera, et cetera, likemy life is miserable artist,
which a lot of people were like,oh, you're depressed, just make
art.
(37:15):
This is gonna be the best startof your life.
Why aren't you lean on that toolthat you have?
And for this year and a half, Itwas like the worst for me.
It was literally like walkingthrough a world that was
completely black and white withshades of gray.
Literally just like...
(37:35):
And I don't know if you'veexperienced this type of
depression, and I know that youhave gone in and out of your
stages, but it was like being soisolated from everyone else
mentally.
It's like you're a differentperson.
It's like you're like an alienin another world.
And even no matter how muchpeople will tell you like, oh,
you're so amazing or like, oh,you're going to be fine or
(37:59):
whatever.
Oh, you're so young.
This is just a stage.
I couldn't receive that.
I couldn't receive that at all.
I was like, my life is over.
I'm a piece of shit.
I'm just like the worst.
That's what began.
I had two suicide attempts atthat time.
And the main reason was becauseI thought that I had ruined my
(38:19):
life.
And I think coming from a placewhere from an early age, I felt,
oh, I'm this creative and I'mgoing to do all these things.
Also, I think when I wasyounger, I was like, oh, I'm
going to be the woman that getsthis really great job and then
gets all her friends hired.
And I'm going to break thechains and be that person that
(38:41):
just CEO dreams, has a company,gets all her college mates
hired, creates this reallyawesome sort of freedom dynamic.
That was always my thoughts likefrom childhood to college up
until that time period so whenthis happened where I lost my
job I didn't even really touchupon my grandpa was in the
(39:01):
hospital and he passed awayright at that time it was
actually right before the LSDtrip and then I just realized
that I was like super unhappy inthis relationship I think my
main internal dialogue was likeI failed I I failed my friends.
I failed my family.
I failed myself.
I had accomplished nothing.
(39:22):
This was all of the dialogue inmy head.
So then I think at the worstpoint, it was I had gone out and
bought a bottle of pesticide.
And so thankfully, I didn't gointo the no self-mutilation or
anything too, I don't know,masculine.
But it came to a point aboutmaybe six or nine months out of
(39:46):
that LSD experience where I wasjust like, I don't want to do
this anymore.
And I had tried before to comeback and be myself again.
I had gotten this part-time jobat a yoga studio.
I was doing volunteer work.
I was working with two of myfriends doing creative projects
(40:07):
and painting.
I was painting.
And thank God for my friends atthe time, because they were
literally like, come over, we'regoing to paint.
Let's do this.
And they definitely, as hard asit was for them, because I know
they definitely went throughsomething too, because they
could tell I was like not allthere.
They definitely kept me afloat.
And so yeah, Through all that,it was just like, I didn't know
(40:30):
how to feel better for me.
I was like, I don't know how tofeel better.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And I was like, nothing is theanswer.
So I actually, I guess I couldlaugh about it now, but I wound
up getting fired from the yogastudio.
And actually, I wasn't evengetting paid.
It was one of those Dharmaexchanges.
(40:51):
Yeah.
I think there's another word forit, but you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (40:55):
Yeah, I got you.
Yes.
And so you're there, you'realmost like volunteering, right?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
And you got to a point where even at that stage,
was it because of the internaldialogue and because you were
feeling the gravity of this,that even through this, even
though you were giving, it justdidn't make sense.
It didn't connect because thealignment wasn't there.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (41:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
definitely I know what you mean when you say you
laugh about it now it's notbecause you're going oh it was a
funny stage in my life but it'sbecause you're able to sit here
and reflect and go aha this iswhy yeah
SPEAKER_01 (41:33):
I mean, like, I was just doing all of these things
to get back on the horse, Iguess, in regards to my career.
And I'm a Capricorn andCapricorns are really, career is
like sort of their main thing.
And I was at the point, asdepressed as I was, I was still
doing things and going for it.
(41:54):
And I had updated my resumes andI was actually cold calling
people and even going tocompanies and leaving my resume
with the secretary and all thisstuff and the thing was and I
think this is what will like tieit all together is that the
universe was like you are notgoing back into a corporate job
you are just like it's like wallup and then it was like probably
(42:20):
you need to figure this outbecause you need to get better
but you need to really connectwith that on your own you need
to find your own way and that'swhat I kept like fucking up yeah
SPEAKER_00 (42:32):
It's amazing how the universe was giving you these
signs, but at that point, atthat stage when you're doing
what you do as a highfunctioning depressive person,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
Yes, that's the best way to categorize it.
I totally get it.
So a year and a half out, Imoved to Jersey City and I'm
still with my partner at thetime.
And we get this super cuteapartment in downtown Jersey
City.
And all of the things startlining up again and lining up in
the divine way, you know, likealignment.
(43:06):
And what happened was we foundThis apartment that was in the
same exact neighborhood that mygrandmother lived in.
My grandmother lives in Floridanow and she was like East Coast
to San Francisco to Florida.
She lived a very diverse life.
And so, but long story short, wefind this apartment right in the
heart of the neighborhood wheremy grandma and grandpa grew up.
(43:28):
My grandma was hardcore Catholicand my father is Protestant from
Ecuador, which is like kind of aunicorn.
But my father is Protestant.
And so my mom essentially pulledaway from the Catholic Church.
And my sister and I were raisedin this very no imagery sort of
(43:49):
Christianity environment.
So meaning like no saints, nostained glass windows, no
ideation about Mary like at all.
It was like Mary was just likein the background.
She birthed Jesus and like thatwas it.
And so this was sort of thething that I was immersed at in
growing up.
So we find this apartment.
(44:10):
I'm still in and out of shadows.
I'm really still in the dark.
But then...
I had chosen to stay with mypartner at the time, which was
pretty shitty on my end, butalso in reflection, I think I
would not have gotten through itwithout him.
And he really kept me groundedduring the time.
And he was a good person.
We just weren't aligningproperly.
(44:31):
But so we're living together andI'm still having ideation at the
time of suicidality.
And one afternoon while he's atwork, I go for a walk and I have
my sketchbook and I'm drawingand And it's all a credit to my
friends for keeping me up withmy art.
I honestly, if it weren't forthem, I might have not been
(44:52):
doing art at the time.
And so I have my sketchbook andI'm going for a walk through
this neighborhood.
I walk upon the cathedral thatmy grandma used to go to.
That was her church, you know,that was her like grandma
Sundays.
You know, she was a mom at thetime, but that was like her
place.
So I'm standing outside of it.
(45:12):
And I literally had like, youknow, When you see a horror
movie and you see thosecathedrals and there's like a
crow outside and it's like, likethat was typically my response
to any Catholic church everbecause I was raised outside of
the Catholic church.
And because Mary was like suchthis no-no and it was just like
(45:35):
every horror movie depiction,like that was my preconceived
emotions about cathedrals.
So anyway, but this is duringthe day on a sunny afternoon.
I think it was like spring orsummer.
I'm with my sketchbook and Ifind myself outside of the
church.
And I'm like, I'm just going tosit here in the courtyard and
I'm just going to like be.
And I'm unemployed at the timeand there's no one around.
(45:58):
And it's just a very peacefulafternoon, like a three o'clock.
And so I'm doing these sketchesand then I decide to go inside
and And then I was going to yogaat the time and I was going to a
local studio and I was startingto have these breakthroughs and
I was starting to have theseglimpses of like, okay, maybe
you can go on from here.
(46:19):
And so with this afternoon, Iwas like all the things like I
had just described and I'm like,I'm just going to go inside, go
on one of those benches, be likethose old little grandmas, you
know, do some things and justlike see what happens.
and just sort of explore and soI do that and then I start to
(46:40):
have all of these awakenings andit's like all of these not
visuals yet but just like thesedeep knowings that I feel like
especially women find it waslike I have been here before and
my friends have been here beforeand like everything is like I
(47:01):
just started to see all thealignments in my relationships
All these things with my sisterand one of my friends having
like the same birthday, likethey're a few days apart.
Other things like alignments, Ithink is the best way to
describe it.
And just all these things andAnd then I was just overcome
with this feeling of, wow, we'veall been here before.
(47:24):
And some of us are evenreincarnations of really amazing
people, you know, philosophers,writers, advocates, all the
things.
And so I'm having these visceralexperiences and I'm in the
cathedral.
And I actually had my Jesusexperience before, but this was
(47:46):
different.
This was my Mary experience.
And so I'm feeling all thesethings.
And then I go up and I walk tothe front of the church.
And instead of going to thecenter, to the right, I go to
the left.
And that's where the Mother Marystatue is.
And I'm finally not scared ofit.
And I'm finally like, okay,maybe there is something here,
(48:06):
you know, things like that.
And then there was thisalignment to when I was in
Brooklyn and I was in front ofthose statues.
And I'm there and I'm feelingall these things and I wind up
very classically kneeling downand just really, really
releasing and really, reallyletting go and giving it up.
And as I'm there completelyalone with no one in the
(48:27):
cathedral, I'm crying and allthese tears are spilling on the
marble floor.
And in that moment, this bright,streaming thick light comes down
from from the stained glasswindow, bright green, like
green, not white, not gold, notyellow.
(48:49):
And it goes right into mypuddle.
And I'm like, I had just learnedabout the chakras.
And I was like, like, I waslike, thank you.
Like, It was just totally like,I was just like, there is a God.
Oh my God.
I am just like, like, it wasamazing.
(49:09):
And for me in that experience,what that meant for me was that
all is one.
All is tied together.
All is this one being, this oneentity.
And it was just like, Maryenergy like shined down on me,
but like essentially what itwas, was heart energy.
It was just pure love, you know?
And then just in that moment,Just of that simple thing, it
(49:33):
was like, bam.
I lost my suicidality.
I lost all the negativethoughts.
I broke up with my boyfriend afew weeks later.
All these things just because ofthat light and just because of
that color.
Color is amazing.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (49:50):
yes.
Color is amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (49:53):
So then a few days prior is when I had started
painting in acrylics again andwhen I had started painting on
canvas.
which is something I hadn't donein about six or seven years.
And I was really exploring.
I got really into just listeningto music while I painted, which
is something I had never donebefore.
(50:14):
I was like a very structured,like kind of just came from a
non-psychedelic family.
So art for me was more likesomeone doing math, like
homework.
And so I had really discovered,oh, I can paint to music.
I can stand up and I can paintvery free form.
And so I had started doing thataround, this was 2014.
(50:35):
I started having theseexperiences within my painting
where Jesus moments startedcoming to me.
And it was like, I was paintingvery figuratively, which is
something that is in my worknow.
I paint primarily stories ofpeople and experiences That's
sort of the main thread in myartwork.
(50:57):
And in this moment, at thistime, I would paint figures and
not too often, but I would getmessages.
There was this one paintingwhere I was painting a nude
figure.
And I had this download to likego up to the painting and like
really see it.
And this sounds weird, but I hada lighter with me because we had
(51:20):
candles and we also would smokecannabis from time to time and
had a lighter.
And in that moment, like I gotthis message to hold the lighter
up to the canvas and it wasn't abenevolent voice or anything.
It's just like a download.
And so I do this and as I do it,And this is a huge part of my
path.
But this light shines up fromthe flame, goes straight up.
(51:44):
And also, this is in the wombspace of the woman I was
painting.
And so it goes straight up, thenacross, which is like not
physically possible, right?
But anything is possible,especially in 2021.
Right?
And so it just takes that shape.
And I'm like, wow, because I hadalso been studying Ayurveda and
(52:08):
I was really at this timelearning about the gut biodome
and how our gut is our secondbrain, maybe even more so
important.
And I was so immersed in that.
For me, like this was verysignificant to say Christ is
inside of us.
This energy, this like creationenergy, is in our wombs and
(52:31):
that's where the light is and itwas just so intense that's what
has driven my art and that iswhat all of this work is about
now it's about reminding us ofwho we are and this light we
have inside of us also how todeal with these tragedies and
like how to really recognizethat it happens to a lot of
(52:54):
people also just this power thatwe wield and how we can use it
and And my paintings vary frommoments of realization to
moments of power.
And this is the thread in myartwork.
This was all started from thesetwo experiences.
It's just been this miraculousjourney ever since.
SPEAKER_00 (53:17):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Eternal Paradigm.
I'd like to take thisopportunity just to remind you
that your comments, yourfeedback, and your listenership
is incredibly valued.
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