This is a fascinating conversation with Author and Near Death Experience expert Jay W Spillers.
Jay is an enthusiast in all things NDE related and is interested in aliens and anarchism.
He discusses his journey and research into NDEs, what he has learned and he speaks bout his book and an upcoming meditation course he is working on.
In this episode, I also share a snapshot of my story which includes an NDE.
Guest: Jay W Spillers
Host: Urmi Raval
Sound Editor: Maja Pronko
Final Thoughts & How to Get Involved
If this episode resonated, I’d love to hear from you. These stories are a reminder that deep transformation is possible, even from the most difficult places.
If you're ready to explore therapeutic coaching or want to understand how it could support your journey, get in touch. This work can be truly life-changing. Get in touch with me for a Discovery Call
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I also run regular online and in person events. If you'd like to join the community and stay updated, click here to find out what’s coming up.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Hello, welcome to this episodeof Eternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
(00:23):
That's the welcome stunt, guys.
Just a quick heads up on socialmedia.
We now have a growing communityon Instagram, especially.
We have around the 230 mark offollowers, which is amazing.
In addition to that, we stillhave 30 people in the Facebook
(00:44):
group, but I have a confessionto make.
And I haven't been very activein the Facebook group, but that
doesn't mean that you can't jointhe group and be active.
The other thing that's beenreally, really interesting is
the Facebook page.
We're getting a lot ofinteresting new people coming
onto the page.
I also wanted to share with yousome podcast stats.
(01:09):
while we're doing this so as ido this i am just heading into
the stats right now and so weare well into the 3000s however
it's actually the locations ofthe podcast listens that's been
really really interestingbecause right now as we speak or
(01:32):
as i speak and as you listenEternal Paradigm is currently
listened to in about 41countries and territories
globally, which I think isactually pretty nice.
We have a stronghold oflisteners from the UK and the
United States, followed byIreland, Canada, India, France,
(01:56):
Norway, and Poland.
I think that's quite incredible,guys.
And so...
Right now, the podcast, again,as I speak to you, is currently
being listened to in 521 globalcities.
I mean, that is incredible for apassion project, really, that
(02:17):
started with me coming to thisrealization that it wasn't just
me, it's actually we.
There's all of us.
And in that, each and every oneof us has a valid and valued
experience that matters to usand is about enriching our time
here on the earth.
(02:37):
And it's all about our soul'sprogression or journey or
learning.
So I'm not going to go too muchinto a deeply reflective and
philosophical route, but I dowant to kind of give you a big
of a heads up about thisepisode.
So this episode is with anauthor.
(02:58):
an incredible energy who has apassion and an interest in
near-death experiences, JaySpillers.
He joined me for a conversation.
Now, we have actually had a fewtechnical hiccups.
This is the truth.
So Jay and I recorded aconversation a few months ago
and technology just wasn't onour side.
(03:19):
And you know what I found reallyinteresting about this is there
have been two peoplespecifically who I have spoken
to and they have such animportant message to share but
it's so important that thetechnology just doesn't seem to
work out on these days.
Now I can't help wondering ifthere's a big energetic shift
(03:41):
happening on these days.
or if it's just a sign from theuniverse to say, it's not your
time yet.
But that has really thrown meoff sorts.
It really has.
And both of these people, Iguess, in the context of who
they are as humans, are men.
(04:02):
I won't go into too much detailabout the first episode, but
this one I want to focusspecifically on Jay.
So we had this conversation.
It was incredible.
It was totally amazing, as italways is.
And it just wouldn't download.
So Jay had to rebook theconversation in.
But, you know, it does amaze me.
(04:24):
have these things happen.
There are always technicalissues, but it seems that with
certain specific energies, whenthere are big shifts happening,
the technology just don't seemto work.
In this episode, I am talking toJay Spillers, as I said, and he
is totally interested in aliens,near-death experiences, and
(04:48):
anarchism.
I love the combination of allthree of those.
And we do, to some extent, talkin our conversation about aliens
and extraterrestrial life orlife beyond the Earth.
We talk about the universe, butwe talk about his interest in
near-death experiences and howit started as a young boy.
(05:09):
Now, I may have mentioned thisbefore in a previous podcast
episode, but I guess what hasbecome very...
apparent and what I am talkingmore about now in a way where I
can process it both in thecontext of an emotional and
spiritual sense really is my ownnear-death experience and I
(05:33):
can't claim it as mine it was anexperience and it was one that
took me close to another realmand lots of different things
happened and it was anincredibly incredibly I want to
say enlightening time.
And at the time I didn't realizeexactly why it was all
(05:54):
happening.
I wasn't even in a position orin a place really to be able to
articulate what had happened.
And to be honest with you, apartfrom the two people who were
closest to me and with me in thehospital at that time, I think
it's pretty fair to say thatnobody else fully understood
(06:16):
what was happening.
But for me, that was anincredibly big moment, a big
time.
A huge shift was taking place.
And as that was happening, Ialso then, it was a bit of a
double whammy.
So something that was incrediblyamazing and real and was
allowing me to see thisincredible, glowing, glowing,
(06:41):
warm, loving light also thenresulted in me coming back
becoming incredibly ill where Ihad sepsis and things were very,
very hard.
For anybody who doesn't knowwhat sepsis is, it's actually an
incredibly awful,life-threatening, an infection
really.
(07:01):
And in my case, things weren'tlooking very good to the point
that there were conversationsbeing had with my husband and my
sister at the time to say thatthey didn't know what the
outcome was going to be.
When you hear these things, andI was there in this place,
having experienced this amazingeuphoria, and I had come back to
(07:23):
this place where I wasexperiencing the absolute
opposite, you really begin torealize that your soul is here
for a true reason, for apurpose.
And maybe in my case, it was toshow me the contrast, that true
light, that warm, loving light.
(07:44):
welcoming energy is here too youjust have to be ready to find it
and it doesn't have to show upin such traumatic experiences or
events i won't go too much intointo that anymore but i would
like to bring to you thisincredible conversation with jay
(08:06):
where he just talks reallyinterestingly about his work
that he's done very much from aChristian perspective and a
universal Christian perspectiveon near-death experiences.
I have read his book, and Iwould actually recommend, if
you're interested in readingdifferent things, otherworldly
things, the possibilities, andalso things from a perspective
(08:30):
of faith, religion, and reallyunderstanding dogma, It's
definitely worth reading,absolutely.
What also becomes really, reallyapparent is, for me, again, in
this lifetime, having done a lotof work and being a huge
advocate of interfaith dialogueand understanding, that there is
(08:52):
so much scope, so muchpossibility in understanding
that it's okay to be different.
But even in the difference, thecommonalities are still so
evident.
You just have to be willing tosee them.
So as I
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
leave you with this episode, enjoy.
exclusively doing writing.
I live with my family.
I have my wife and my son, who'sseven.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
Thanks, Jay.
Hi.
Hi, welcome.
So tell me, at 11 years old,what was it that got you
interested and intrigued bynear-death experiences?
Because I'm thinking back to meas an 11-year-old.
Actually, I have a 12-year-oldand a 10-year-old, and they are
fascinated by the concept ofdeath.
(10:00):
And so I'd love to hear whatyour take on this was.
What happened to you at 11 yearsold where you just became
fascinated?
It
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
was in 1983, and I was watching a TV program called
That's Incredible.
And they were doing a special onthe near-death experience.
And I was just so fascinated byit because a couple of years
earlier, I had become aChristian.
And then I started to see in theshow that what I believed by
(10:30):
faith, these people had actuallyexperienced.
They'd gone to heaven, they'dmet God, some of them had seen
Jesus.
So it fascinated me that therewas people in modern times, in
my own times, that I could seethat had experienced what I
believed by faith.
And so that kind of captured myinterest.
(10:51):
So I thought, well, I'll call aChristian radio show that was
popular at the time called BibleAnswer Man and see what he
thought about it.
So I called his show, and I putlike a little tape recorder up
to the speaker so I could recordit.
And he came across as verydismissive.
And, you know, I felt kind ofdejected and like he was
(11:13):
dismissive of me, like he wasjust kind of poo-pooing it.
And I think that's where most ofthe church was at that time was
just not very open to theconcept of the near-death
experience.
So at that time, I just sort ofput it on the back burner.
Sometimes I would get a littleinterested in it here and there,
(11:33):
but it wasn't until 1997 when Iwas in law school that I started
getting interested again.
I started having doubts in myfaith and starting to question
things like, what about hell?
Because they never say how manypeople are going to hell, but it
seemed like it was...
implied that the majority ofpeople were going to hell.
(11:53):
So I started getting into thenear-death experience and
started studying it online.
And over the years, I've readand listened to a number of
near-death experiences.
I've been part of email listgroups and Facebook groups and
things like that.
And I've read over a dozen bookson the near-death experience.
(12:15):
And my interest even heightenedmore in 2010.
when my dad died.
So it was 1997 that I restartedmy interest in the NDE, but it
had started originally when Iwas about 11.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And that's so interesting because as an
11-year-old boy, you're seeingthese parallels to your faith.
You know, this interest ispeaking because people, or this
person on television at least,had been up to see God and had
come back come back to earthagain.
So I can totally appreciate howfascinating that would be.
(12:51):
But what was it like as an11-year-old boy who phoned up
the radio station and had thisradio show host actually, as you
said, poo-poo what you weresaying?
What was that like for you at11?
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Well, it was very discouraging to me.
Something that I had gotten soexcited about was being
dismissed.
And I think that was kind of thereaction of the church at that
time, even through the 90s,there was a book written called
Deceived by the Light, where itwas trying to discount the NDE.
(13:26):
And I think a lot of times,either they just dismissed it as
nothing, like a hallucination,or they thought of it as
actually a trick of Satan, thatit was the angel of light.
There's a verse that talks aboutthat, that would come and
deceive people.
And so, That book was arguing itwas kind of a trick of Satan,
(13:47):
and that was a common view.
But then it's in the early2000s, the perception started to
change or started to be more ofan openness in the church.
And now there's actually a lotof Christian near-death
experiences that you can see,like Colton Burpo, Heaven is for
Real, became quite popular, andhe was the son of a pastor.
(14:11):
And there's been other ones.
Crystal wrote a book, NineMinutes in Heaven.
And so now it's more acceptedwithin the church.
There's still elements that arehesitant towards it.
There's a greater acceptance,but in the 80s and 90s, it
seemed like the church waspretty much closed off to the
concept.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
That's so fascinating.
And so again, from your point ofview at 11, you felt very kind
of dismissed and dejected.
And then as things haveprogressed, you know, now there
is a lot more understanding andacceptance and more stories
around this and experiences.
So tell me what happened to youas you were growing up and you
(14:53):
were interested in NDEs, butthen you kind of stepped out of
it and almost like stepped intolife, you said, when you're
either studying or working.
And then all of a suddensomething changed in your life
that piqued your interest againand brought you back to NDEs,
which was what you said whenyour dad passed away.
And so what happened in betweenfor you?
(15:15):
What was life like?
Were you still heavily, youknow, were you a practicing
Christian?
Did you move away from yourfaith?
And what was that period inbetween your passion, if you see
what I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Between 83 and 97, I was a pretty committed Christian
and I was practicing my faith.
And so I was just going alongwith that and fairly content
just being a Christian and beingwithin that.
And Obviously, I'm a Christiannow, but it was in 97, I was in
law school and I started to havedoubts about things like hell
(15:50):
because in some churches, itseemed like 95% of the world is
going to hell in a handbasketand they're going to be there
forever and ever without anyend.
And I'm thinking, what does thatpresent as an image of God to
people?
Because he kind of sounded likea monster when you sat down and
thought about it.
But I started studying thingslike the near-death experience
(16:11):
again in 97.
I started studying otherconcepts like Christian
universalism and kind ofwondering about the concept of
hell.
What was it really like?
And was I even understandingthat concept as I should?
So that sort of sparked myinterest again at that time.
And then in 2010, I got evenmore interested because my
(16:35):
father passed away.
But I was pretty interestedbefore that point.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
thank you for that.
And the question that you asked,you know, what does that tell us
about the image of God?
That's a huge question,especially at this time where,
like you said, 95% of everyoneof the world was going to hell.
What did that question bring upfor you?
And is that one of the questionsthat led you to really following
(17:04):
this path and understandingnear-death experiences?
Or did that just open up adifferent world to you?
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Well, I started to wonder what is the nature of
hell and is so many people goingto hell and is hell without end?
And studying things like thenear-death experience and
studying things like Christianuniversalism, I started to
understand the nature of hell abit differently.
(17:31):
And I think as I understand hellnow, I kind of think of it as
where is the spiritual health ofyour soul?
You could think of it as themore you move towards love, the
more light you have, the moreyou move towards light.
The further you move from love,the more in darkness you are,
the more hell you have.
(17:53):
It's like Jesus said, thekingdom of God is within you,
well, the kingdom of darknesscan be within you too.
So I kind of see it as a stateof where your soul is.
It's sort of like you're eithervibrating upward towards heaven,
or you're sort of vibrating inthe other direction towards
hell.
So it was more of a naturalstate of kind of where your soul
(18:13):
is at that point, rather thanGod sending you to hell in that
sense.
And in addition to that, it wasthe possibility that a person
could get out of hell.
There's a passage in, I thinkit's 1 Peter 3, 18 through 20,
where it talks about Jesusbetween his death and his
resurrection descended intoHades and set the prisoners
(18:38):
free, those who had beendisobedient in the days of Noah.
And it's sort of implying thathe took them out of hell and
took them to heaven.
So there's a concept in theBible where it seems possible
you can get out of hell.
And that fit very nicely withwhat I saw in the near-death
experience, because the hellishNDEs, there's not very many of
(18:59):
them, but a lot of them, you'llsee where they cry out to God or
to Jesus and are taken out ofthat situation.
And it seems instantaneous atthat point, but there are other
NDEs where it seemed like maybeit was more of a process, but
that you could essentially getout of hell.
You could through the power ofGod, vibrate up, whether it was
(19:21):
going to be instantaneous or aprocess, you could eventually
get out of that situation.
And that was an interestingconcept because I think most
Christians would think of hellas it's impossible to get out
of.
And I guess in that sense, helloperates for most people more
like a purgatory.
There was an NDE where a womanwas told that her name was
(19:44):
Angie.
She said that God and Jesus toldher that Hell functions more
like a purgatory rather than aneternal punishment that you
never get out of.
And so when you start tounderstand these things about
it, it kind of puts it inperspective.
I think a lot of Christians haveproblems with the NDE because
(20:05):
when you look at it, it seemslike there's too many people
going to heaven.
It's like virtually everybodygets in.
Because the number of peoplethat go to hell in the NDEs,
I've seen it vary from as low as1% to as high as 12.5%.
But even if it's the highernumber, that still means nearly
90% are going to heaven whenthey have an NDE.
(20:28):
And that presents a troublingthing for some Christian groups.
I sort of covered that in mybook because I said, well, how
is it that they can get intoheaven?
Because the Bible says you mustbe born again to enter the
kingdom of God.
And I said, well, when they'rein the light, they're embracing
the light and the light isembracing them.
They're being immersed in loveand his peace.
(20:52):
Aren't they effectively beingborn again right there in the
light?
And that's what I argued for inmy book.
And there was actually a womanthat had a near-death
experience.
And she said, when she cameback, I now understand what
Christians mean when they talkabout being reborn.
And there was another NDE, hisname was Ian McCormick, And he
(21:14):
said, when he got back from hisNDE, he said that God told him,
you're now a reborn Christian.
So there is sort of a born againexperience in the light that I
think occurs.
And that's probably why you seemost NDEs as being a positive
experience, even if they weren'tnecessarily Christian before
(21:36):
they died.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
There is so much there in what you're saying,
everything that you've shared.
Wow.
So it almost sounds like, youknow, when you speak about the
soul, it can kind of vibrateupwards or vibrate to hell,
however that is, and this kindof stick of purgatory and the
element of being born.
(21:57):
As you're speaking, I'm hearingwhat you're saying, and that
resonates with me just based onthe upbringing that I've had,
which has been predominantlyHindu.
And Hinduism almost teaches youthat your heaven and hell is
here.
This is it.
So I'm fascinated by what you'resaying.
And also, you mentioned so manydifferent, almost like
(22:21):
components that people havedifferent NDE experiences.
So what are the common themesfor NDE experiences?
Because you mentioned that thenumbers of people having
experiences of going to health.
compared to the experiences ofhaving almost like a universal
kind of God love experience.
(22:42):
The numbers seem quite differentthere.
So what are the common kind ofexperiences that you've
researched when it comes to NDEsor that you've come across?
Almost like the common themes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
They all vary, but a lot of them will see a pinprick
of light and will startdescending towards the light.
A lot of them will have a lifereview where they see and
experience all of the good andthe bad that they caused other
people as that other personexperiences.
So if you said a cruel word, youwould experience how that other
(23:15):
person felt.
If you physically harmed anotherperson, you would feel the
physical harm that that personexperienced.
And you would also feel the goodtoo, like if you did something
loving or kind, you would feelthat during the life review.
And it's common to meet departedloved ones or to see religious
figures like Jesus and thingslike that.
(23:37):
And it doesn't seem to vary thatmuch between someone who died as
a Christian and someone who diednot as a Christian, that the
experiences tend to be prettysimilar.
Sometimes a Christian or someonefrom a particular church might
have a more overtly Christianexperience, especially like if
(24:00):
you were a Catholic, you mightbe more inclined to see Mary
than a Christian or anon-Christian would tend to see
Mary.
So it sort of tends to maybe bea bit more connected to your
faith, but a lot of the overallexperiences of warmth and love
and peace, seeing departed lovedones, seeing beautiful imagery
(24:24):
is very similar.
And the experiences betweenadults and children, them to
have a lot of similarities aswell.
So there's a lot of variationwithin each individual
experience, but there's a lot ofcommonality in terms of the
overall message and feeling thatyou get from a near-death
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
That is really fascinating.
What do you think that tells usabout humans and our need for
Not so much our need, but whatdoes that really tell us?
Do you feel in your kind ofexperience and research that
you've done that there arealmost like individual
differences based on your faith,but ultimately the commonalities
(25:07):
are there in your experience?
What does that tell us abouthumans?
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
There was one near-death experiencer who was
told that there's sort of afeedback loop that people can go
into where they experience tosome degree what they expect to
experience.
And that was Mel and ThomasBenedict.
So a lot of times, as youinitially get into the
(25:32):
near-death experience, it'll fitmore with what your expectations
are.
This isn't always true, but itcan happen.
A lot of times, I think it'ssort of molded to where we are
at that point.
God can start us where we areand then sort of bring us along
over time.
And I think...
(25:52):
A lot of near-death experiencerswill experience very beautiful
imagery, like I was in abeautiful garden.
And they get the feeling thatthis place was created
specifically for them, that itwas sort of like their soul put
together a unique heaven orheavenly experience that was for
(26:13):
them.
And they thought maybe otherpeople would experience
something different.
Maybe it would be beautiful andpeaceful.
but the imagery might bedifferent.
It might not be a garden.
Maybe it would be at the beachor home or something like that.
It could take different forms,but the overall experience would
be the same in terms of feelingat home, feeling love, feeling
(26:38):
peace and seeing beautifulimagery.
And I guess sort of said in mybook, if you're familiar with
Star Trek, it's kind of like theholodeck in the sense that you
can create a lot of the imagerythat you want.
And I believe that you can sortof co-create with other people
(26:58):
that are there too, to sort ofcreate a collage of experiences
and imagery.
The imagery is both in a senseallegorical, but in a sense, it
also takes on a literal realityfor you too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
Gosh, I always, always love talking to you
because you always bring up somenew stuff.
When it comes to all of theexperiences, when we spoke last
time, I briefly told you aboutmy near-death experience.
And I know that you haveresearched and spoken to so many
people.
(27:34):
Whose kind of near-deathexperience or how many have you
become really fascinated by?
Because something in that notonly taught you something, but
opened up this new possibilityof understanding something for
you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:49):
One of the NDEs that seems pretty powerful was Melon
Thomas Benedict.
And he was one that was given atour of heaven and he was given
a lot of understanding about howthe NDE works.
And he was someone that when hecame back, he felt like he could
go into the light and and getmore understanding.
(28:12):
And he became an inventor andinvented a lot of different
products.
And he felt like he was gettingthis information from the light.
He had a brain tumor in 1982 andhad died and went to heaven and
had all his experiences.
But then when he came back, hewas instantly healed of this
(28:35):
brain tumor.
The doctor said it was aspontaneous remission, but it
was basically a miracle.
And he went on to live for 35more years until his eventual
passing ultimately in 2017.
But I always thought hisnear-death experience was
fascinating and it sort of puteverything in perspective.
(28:55):
And there's been a lot of othernear-death experiencers that
have come later that were giventours of heaven and given
different understandings thatwere similar to his.
I think there's some that arejust quite peaceful and you see
radical changes in the person'slife.
Like Danny and Brinkley wentfrom someone who was, in his own
(29:15):
words, he was a jerk and he waskind of violent and it's not a
very nice person.
He came back and became someonewho was very loving and kind and
was transformed by hisnear-death experience.
And Howard Storm was kind ofmuch the same way.
And he actually went from beingan atheist to and to being a
Christian pastor.
And he said he experiencedJesus.
(29:38):
When his near-death experiencestarted, it started sort of
hellish because he was in ahospital in France.
He's from the United States, buthe was visiting with an art
class in France.
He was a professor and he diedand he was taken to another room
and he thought they weredoctors, but they were speaking
English so clearly and theydidn't have accents.
(30:02):
So it kind of shocked him.
But then when they got himanother room, they started
attacking him and talking lesskind to him.
And they were demons.
But then he had the thought ofcalling out to Jesus.
And then essentially everythingopened up.
The light came in and he had aheavenly experience with Jesus
and was told a lot ofinteresting things, too.
(30:25):
I mean, one of the things that Iliked about Howard Storm, and
I've seen other NDEs, is heconfirmed.
that we're not alone in theuniverse.
He asked Jesus and the angels,are there other beings in the
universe?
And they said, well, theuniverse is filled with life and
there are other universes filledwith life.
So there is other worlds andthere are some beings
(30:49):
essentially are human or lookhuman and other beings look
quite different from us, butthat there are many worlds and
that he said that Jesus had beenthe savior of various worlds.
He didn't have to die on everyworld.
Some worlds just embraced hismessage of love and peace and he
blessed them.
(31:09):
But I thought, well, that's kindof interesting because if you're
a Christian and you see Jesus asnot only the savior of the
world, but the savior of manyworlds, I think that that would
be kind of an exciting thing formost Christians.
But a lot of Christians aren'teven open to the idea that there
would be other worlds Godcreated.
(31:30):
they kind of think this is theonly one.
But I thought that would befascinating if Jesus was the
savior of many worlds.
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
Wow, that's incredible because there is so
much science now that ispointing in that direction where
energetically the universe on anenergetic level is filled with
different energies and whetherthey have a physical form or
not.
So that is really, reallyinteresting.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
(32:01):
That absolutely fascinates me.
And I can understand, I can hearthe excitement in your voice
when you're talking about that.
Would you consider now lookingat, you know, because you have
looked at NDEs very much from aChristian perspective, from the
perspective of your faith andyour belief in your
understanding, would you want tolook at or have you looked at
(32:21):
the scientific rationale of theother universes and what is out
there that you could bring intothis?
I don't know.
I'm putting it out there.
What do you think, Jay?
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
I've looked at different scientific things
related to the near-deathexperience, and I do like to
follow what's going on in termsof science.
You know, when they find newpotential Earth-like planets,
there's quite a few of them.
I wonder if planets like theKepler-452b, which is supposed
to be possibly very Earth-like,I wonder...
(32:55):
Who is there or if there arebeings there?
I wonder that about a lot ofthese Earth-like planets they're
starting to find and trying topiece together.
Sometimes I wish I knew what wasthere specifically on some of
those planets.
I know that there is the idea ofstring theory where scientists
are talking about our universemay have came out of another
(33:18):
universe and that there's amultiverse out there.
So I think that goes along withwhat Howard Storm was saying
about many universes.
So yeah, I do look at thingslike that.
And I get into some things aboutUFOs in terms of looking at the
history of different culturesand people and their
(33:39):
experiences, like the NativeAmericans talk about star people
visiting them.
And this is pretty common inother cultures as well, that
they write about having peoplefrom the sky and from the stars
visiting them.
And then there's people, ofcourse, today in our modern
times that talk about seeingUFOs and things like that.
(34:01):
I don't know about, in terms ofthe ones that are abducted, that
I would think those aliensprobably aren't too good if
they're abducting people anddoing experiments, essentially
kidnapping.
I don't think the greys and thereptilians represent most of
what the aliens that are outthere.
I think most aliens that are outthere are basically good and
(34:24):
that they're as good as humansor possibly better in terms of
their compassion and love.
There may be a few ones that areon the darker side, but I think
that there have been alienencounters throughout history
that people have experienced.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah, it's so fascinating how just you looking
into NDEs has opened up thepossibility of multiverses and
other universes and planets.
It's incredible.
So tell me, where can people,firstly, where can they buy your
book?
And then tell us about what moreyou've got happening.
SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
Well, they can buy my book on...
amazon it's called heaven'struth the parallels between the
bible and the near-deathexperience and i've written a
second book on meditation it'scalled meditation for everyone
how to quickly have a morepeaceful mindful and fulfilled
life and so that's sort of whati'm working on now is uh i've
(35:29):
written a meditation book andnow i want to put together an
online course on meditation thati'm working on currently And I'm
writing other books too.
I'm writing like a kind of adevotional book about walking as
children of the light that goesin it more from a Christian
perspective and looking atthings like scripture.
(35:50):
But I bring in concepts likemeditation and to it and using
meditation as a base to practiceyour faith.
But my book Meditation forEveryone was written in a
non-sectarian way that people ofvarious faiths or no faith at
all could pick up the book andfind benefit from.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
That's so great.
Jay, what I always like to askmy guests before they head off
is, would you like to leave aquestion for the listeners just
to get them thinking aboutsomething, about an area of
their life or about somethingelse?
And, you know, it could even bea question that you've asked
(36:31):
yourself while on this journeythat Because you have definitely
asked yourself a lot ofquestions and you've thrown out
a lot of questions too.
Do you have one that you couldshare?
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
I guess I would say, why are we here and what is our
purpose in this world, bothcollectively and individually?
Because I'd say the purpose forus collectively is to learn and
to grow and then also to loveand experience love, both in
(37:02):
terms of us loving others andbeing able to experience love
from others.
That's sort of the collectivepurpose in life.
But what does that mean forindividual people?
What are you here to learn andgrow about?
And how can you grow andexperience love in your own
personal life?
Where does that lead you interms of your calling as a human
(37:26):
being on earth?
So that's maybe what I wouldask.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Incredibly powerful question.
One last question from me,actually, if that's okay.
And that is, you've exploredNDEs, like you've said, very
much from your faithperspective.
Do you collaborate with peoplefrom other faiths and cultures
and atheists on theirexperiences or any other
research outside of Christianitywhen it comes to NDEs?
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Yeah, I would say I've read a lot of...
near-death experiences comingfrom different perspectives.
And I belong to a lot ofdifferent groups online, so I
get to hear different NDEexperiences and some things that
are interesting just in generalthat I didn't really get into in
my book was the possibility ofreincarnation.
(38:17):
Because that seems to be quitecommon in many near-death
experiences, that they havelived multiple times and that
they were learning from eachlifetime.
It's not in every NDE, butthere's quite a few NDEs where
it seems like the concept ofreincarnation does come up.
And so, yeah, I look atdifferent perspectives and I
(38:39):
wrote the parallel between theBible and the NDE because that's
where my background is.
I think it might be possible forsomeone to write the parallels
between a different faith systemand the NDE as well.
If someone understood Buddhism,they might write a comparing of
the two as well, or Islam andthe NDE.
(39:03):
In fact, there was one NDE wherea woman did meet Jesus, but she
was also quoted a scripture fromthe Quran and she was not
Muslim, but she came back andfound out that that was actually
in the Quran.
Obviously, I've talk about mybook, the NDE supporting the
(39:24):
Bible and saying that the Biblewas divinely inspired.
But was God inspiring andworking through other prophets
and other sages in differentcultures?
I think the answer is probablyyes.
So that there could be levels ofinspiration in other works as
well.
So yeah, I look at differentfaith perspectives and what
(39:47):
other people are saying and whattheir experiences were.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
I hope you enjoyed that.
Thank you for joining me forthis episode of Eternal
Paradigm.
Join me next time.
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Hello, welcome to this episodeof Eternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
(00:23):
That's the welcome stunt, guys.
Just a quick heads up on socialmedia.
We now have a growing communityon Instagram, especially.
We have around the 230 mark offollowers, which is amazing.
In addition to that, we stillhave 30 people in the Facebook
(00:44):
group, but I have a confessionto make.
And I haven't been very activein the Facebook group, but that
doesn't mean that you can't jointhe group and be active.
The other thing that's beenreally, really interesting is
the Facebook page.
We're getting a lot ofinteresting new people coming
onto the page.
I also wanted to share with yousome podcast stats.
(01:09):
while we're doing this so as ido this i am just heading into
the stats right now and so weare well into the 3000s however
it's actually the locations ofthe podcast listens that's been
really really interestingbecause right now as we speak or
(01:32):
as i speak and as you listenEternal Paradigm is currently
listened to in about 41countries and territories
globally, which I think isactually pretty nice.
We have a stronghold oflisteners from the UK and the
United States, followed byIreland, Canada, India, France,
(01:56):
Norway, and Poland.
I think that's quite incredible,guys.
And so...
Right now, the podcast, again,as I speak to you, is currently
being listened to in 521 globalcities.
I mean, that is incredible for apassion project, really, that
(02:17):
started with me coming to thisrealization that it wasn't just
me, it's actually we.
There's all of us.
And in that, each and every oneof us has a valid and valued
experience that matters to usand is about enriching our time
here on the earth.
(02:37):
And it's all about our soul'sprogression or journey or
learning.
So I'm not going to go too muchinto a deeply reflective and
philosophical route, but I dowant to kind of give you a big
of a heads up about thisepisode.
So this episode is with anauthor.
(02:58):
an incredible energy who has apassion and an interest in
near-death experiences, JaySpillers.
He joined me for a conversation.
Now, we have actually had a fewtechnical hiccups.
This is the truth.
So Jay and I recorded aconversation a few months ago
and technology just wasn't onour side.
(03:19):
And you know what I found reallyinteresting about this is there
have been two peoplespecifically who I have spoken
to and they have such animportant message to share but
it's so important that thetechnology just doesn't seem to
work out on these days.
Now I can't help wondering ifthere's a big energetic shift
(03:41):
happening on these days.
or if it's just a sign from theuniverse to say, it's not your
time yet.
But that has really thrown meoff sorts.
It really has.
And both of these people, Iguess, in the context of who
they are as humans, are men.
(04:02):
I won't go into too much detailabout the first episode, but
this one I want to focusspecifically on Jay.
So we had this conversation.
It was incredible.
It was totally amazing, as italways is.
And it just wouldn't download.
So Jay had to rebook theconversation in.
But, you know, it does amaze me.
(04:24):
have these things happen.
There are always technicalissues, but it seems that with
certain specific energies, whenthere are big shifts happening,
the technology just don't seemto work.
In this episode, I am talking toJay Spillers, as I said, and he
is totally interested in aliens,near-death experiences, and
(04:48):
anarchism.
I love the combination of allthree of those.
And we do, to some extent, talkin our conversation about aliens
and extraterrestrial life orlife beyond the Earth.
We talk about the universe, butwe talk about his interest in
near-death experiences and howit started as a young boy.
(05:09):
Now, I may have mentioned thisbefore in a previous podcast
episode, but I guess what hasbecome very...
apparent and what I am talkingmore about now in a way where I
can process it both in thecontext of an emotional and
spiritual sense really is my ownnear-death experience and I
(05:33):
can't claim it as mine it was anexperience and it was one that
took me close to another realmand lots of different things
happened and it was anincredibly incredibly I want to
say enlightening time.
And at the time I didn't realizeexactly why it was all
(05:54):
happening.
I wasn't even in a position orin a place really to be able to
articulate what had happened.
And to be honest with you, apartfrom the two people who were
closest to me and with me in thehospital at that time, I think
it's pretty fair to say thatnobody else fully understood
(06:16):
what was happening.
But for me, that was anincredibly big moment, a big
time.
A huge shift was taking place.
And as that was happening, Ialso then, it was a bit of a
double whammy.
So something that was incrediblyamazing and real and was
allowing me to see thisincredible, glowing, glowing,
(06:41):
warm, loving light also thenresulted in me coming back
becoming incredibly ill where Ihad sepsis and things were very,
very hard.
For anybody who doesn't knowwhat sepsis is, it's actually an
incredibly awful,life-threatening, an infection
really.
(07:01):
And in my case, things weren'tlooking very good to the point
that there were conversationsbeing had with my husband and my
sister at the time to say thatthey didn't know what the
outcome was going to be.
When you hear these things, andI was there in this place,
having experienced this amazingeuphoria, and I had come back to
(07:23):
this place where I wasexperiencing the absolute
opposite, you really begin torealize that your soul is here
for a true reason, for apurpose.
And maybe in my case, it was toshow me the contrast, that true
light, that warm, loving light.
(07:44):
welcoming energy is here too youjust have to be ready to find it
and it doesn't have to show upin such traumatic experiences or
events i won't go too much intointo that anymore but i would
like to bring to you thisincredible conversation with jay
(08:06):
where he just talks reallyinterestingly about his work
that he's done very much from aChristian perspective and a
universal Christian perspectiveon near-death experiences.
I have read his book, and Iwould actually recommend, if
you're interested in readingdifferent things, otherworldly
things, the possibilities, andalso things from a perspective
(08:30):
of faith, religion, and reallyunderstanding dogma, It's
definitely worth reading,absolutely.
What also becomes really, reallyapparent is, for me, again, in
this lifetime, having done a lotof work and being a huge
advocate of interfaith dialogueand understanding, that there is
(08:52):
so much scope, so muchpossibility in understanding
that it's okay to be different.
But even in the difference, thecommonalities are still so
evident.
You just have to be willing tosee them.
So as I
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
leave you with this episode, enjoy.
exclusively doing writing.
I live with my family.
I have my wife and my son, who'sseven.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
Thanks, Jay.
Hi.
Hi, welcome.
So tell me, at 11 years old,what was it that got you
interested and intrigued bynear-death experiences?
Because I'm thinking back to meas an 11-year-old.
Actually, I have a 12-year-oldand a 10-year-old, and they are
fascinated by the concept ofdeath.
(10:00):
And so I'd love to hear whatyour take on this was.
What happened to you at 11 yearsold where you just became
fascinated?
It
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
was in 1983, and I was watching a TV program called
That's Incredible.
And they were doing a special onthe near-death experience.
And I was just so fascinated byit because a couple of years
earlier, I had become aChristian.
And then I started to see in theshow that what I believed by
(10:30):
faith, these people had actuallyexperienced.
They'd gone to heaven, they'dmet God, some of them had seen
Jesus.
So it fascinated me that therewas people in modern times, in
my own times, that I could seethat had experienced what I
believed by faith.
And so that kind of captured myinterest.
(10:51):
So I thought, well, I'll call aChristian radio show that was
popular at the time called BibleAnswer Man and see what he
thought about it.
So I called his show, and I putlike a little tape recorder up
to the speaker so I could recordit.
And he came across as verydismissive.
And, you know, I felt kind ofdejected and like he was
(11:13):
dismissive of me, like he wasjust kind of poo-pooing it.
And I think that's where most ofthe church was at that time was
just not very open to theconcept of the near-death
experience.
So at that time, I just sort ofput it on the back burner.
Sometimes I would get a littleinterested in it here and there,
(11:33):
but it wasn't until 1997 when Iwas in law school that I started
getting interested again.
I started having doubts in myfaith and starting to question
things like, what about hell?
Because they never say how manypeople are going to hell, but it
seemed like it was...
implied that the majority ofpeople were going to hell.
(11:53):
So I started getting into thenear-death experience and
started studying it online.
And over the years, I've readand listened to a number of
near-death experiences.
I've been part of email listgroups and Facebook groups and
things like that.
And I've read over a dozen bookson the near-death experience.
(12:15):
And my interest even heightenedmore in 2010.
when my dad died.
So it was 1997 that I restartedmy interest in the NDE, but it
had started originally when Iwas about 11.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And that's so interesting because as an
11-year-old boy, you're seeingthese parallels to your faith.
You know, this interest ispeaking because people, or this
person on television at least,had been up to see God and had
come back come back to earthagain.
So I can totally appreciate howfascinating that would be.
(12:51):
But what was it like as an11-year-old boy who phoned up
the radio station and had thisradio show host actually, as you
said, poo-poo what you weresaying?
What was that like for you at11?
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Well, it was very discouraging to me.
Something that I had gotten soexcited about was being
dismissed.
And I think that was kind of thereaction of the church at that
time, even through the 90s,there was a book written called
Deceived by the Light, where itwas trying to discount the NDE.
(13:26):
And I think a lot of times,either they just dismissed it as
nothing, like a hallucination,or they thought of it as
actually a trick of Satan, thatit was the angel of light.
There's a verse that talks aboutthat, that would come and
deceive people.
And so, That book was arguing itwas kind of a trick of Satan,
(13:47):
and that was a common view.
But then it's in the early2000s, the perception started to
change or started to be more ofan openness in the church.
And now there's actually a lotof Christian near-death
experiences that you can see,like Colton Burpo, Heaven is for
Real, became quite popular, andhe was the son of a pastor.
(14:11):
And there's been other ones.
Crystal wrote a book, NineMinutes in Heaven.
And so now it's more acceptedwithin the church.
There's still elements that arehesitant towards it.
There's a greater acceptance,but in the 80s and 90s, it
seemed like the church waspretty much closed off to the
concept.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
That's so fascinating.
And so again, from your point ofview at 11, you felt very kind
of dismissed and dejected.
And then as things haveprogressed, you know, now there
is a lot more understanding andacceptance and more stories
around this and experiences.
So tell me what happened to youas you were growing up and you
(14:53):
were interested in NDEs, butthen you kind of stepped out of
it and almost like stepped intolife, you said, when you're
either studying or working.
And then all of a suddensomething changed in your life
that piqued your interest againand brought you back to NDEs,
which was what you said whenyour dad passed away.
And so what happened in betweenfor you?
(15:15):
What was life like?
Were you still heavily, youknow, were you a practicing
Christian?
Did you move away from yourfaith?
And what was that period inbetween your passion, if you see
what I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Between 83 and 97, I was a pretty committed Christian
and I was practicing my faith.
And so I was just going alongwith that and fairly content
just being a Christian and beingwithin that.
And Obviously, I'm a Christiannow, but it was in 97, I was in
law school and I started to havedoubts about things like hell
(15:50):
because in some churches, itseemed like 95% of the world is
going to hell in a handbasketand they're going to be there
forever and ever without anyend.
And I'm thinking, what does thatpresent as an image of God to
people?
Because he kind of sounded likea monster when you sat down and
thought about it.
But I started studying thingslike the near-death experience
(16:11):
again in 97.
I started studying otherconcepts like Christian
universalism and kind ofwondering about the concept of
hell.
What was it really like?
And was I even understandingthat concept as I should?
So that sort of sparked myinterest again at that time.
And then in 2010, I got evenmore interested because my
(16:35):
father passed away.
But I was pretty interestedbefore that point.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
thank you for that.
And the question that you asked,you know, what does that tell us
about the image of God?
That's a huge question,especially at this time where,
like you said, 95% of everyoneof the world was going to hell.
What did that question bring upfor you?
And is that one of the questionsthat led you to really following
(17:04):
this path and understandingnear-death experiences?
Or did that just open up adifferent world to you?
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
Well, I started to wonder what is the nature of
hell and is so many people goingto hell and is hell without end?
And studying things like thenear-death experience and
studying things like Christianuniversalism, I started to
understand the nature of hell abit differently.
(17:31):
And I think as I understand hellnow, I kind of think of it as
where is the spiritual health ofyour soul?
You could think of it as themore you move towards love, the
more light you have, the moreyou move towards light.
The further you move from love,the more in darkness you are,
the more hell you have.
(17:53):
It's like Jesus said, thekingdom of God is within you,
well, the kingdom of darknesscan be within you too.
So I kind of see it as a stateof where your soul is.
It's sort of like you're eithervibrating upward towards heaven,
or you're sort of vibrating inthe other direction towards
hell.
So it was more of a naturalstate of kind of where your soul
(18:13):
is at that point, rather thanGod sending you to hell in that
sense.
And in addition to that, it wasthe possibility that a person
could get out of hell.
There's a passage in, I thinkit's 1 Peter 3, 18 through 20,
where it talks about Jesusbetween his death and his
resurrection descended intoHades and set the prisoners
(18:38):
free, those who had beendisobedient in the days of Noah.
And it's sort of implying thathe took them out of hell and
took them to heaven.
So there's a concept in theBible where it seems possible
you can get out of hell.
And that fit very nicely withwhat I saw in the near-death
experience, because the hellishNDEs, there's not very many of
(18:59):
them, but a lot of them, you'llsee where they cry out to God or
to Jesus and are taken out ofthat situation.
And it seems instantaneous atthat point, but there are other
NDEs where it seemed like maybeit was more of a process, but
that you could essentially getout of hell.
You could through the power ofGod, vibrate up, whether it was
(19:21):
going to be instantaneous or aprocess, you could eventually
get out of that situation.
And that was an interestingconcept because I think most
Christians would think of hellas it's impossible to get out
of.
And I guess in that sense, helloperates for most people more
like a purgatory.
There was an NDE where a womanwas told that her name was
(19:44):
Angie.
She said that God and Jesus toldher that Hell functions more
like a purgatory rather than aneternal punishment that you
never get out of.
And so when you start tounderstand these things about
it, it kind of puts it inperspective.
I think a lot of Christians haveproblems with the NDE because
(20:05):
when you look at it, it seemslike there's too many people
going to heaven.
It's like virtually everybodygets in.
Because the number of peoplethat go to hell in the NDEs,
I've seen it vary from as low as1% to as high as 12.5%.
But even if it's the highernumber, that still means nearly
90% are going to heaven whenthey have an NDE.
(20:28):
And that presents a troublingthing for some Christian groups.
I sort of covered that in mybook because I said, well, how
is it that they can get intoheaven?
Because the Bible says you mustbe born again to enter the
kingdom of God.
And I said, well, when they'rein the light, they're embracing
the light and the light isembracing them.
They're being immersed in loveand his peace.
(20:52):
Aren't they effectively beingborn again right there in the
light?
And that's what I argued for inmy book.
And there was actually a womanthat had a near-death
experience.
And she said, when she cameback, I now understand what
Christians mean when they talkabout being reborn.
And there was another NDE, hisname was Ian McCormick, And he
(21:14):
said, when he got back from hisNDE, he said that God told him,
you're now a reborn Christian.
So there is sort of a born againexperience in the light that I
think occurs.
And that's probably why you seemost NDEs as being a positive
experience, even if they weren'tnecessarily Christian before
(21:36):
they died.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
There is so much there in what you're saying,
everything that you've shared.
Wow.
So it almost sounds like, youknow, when you speak about the
soul, it can kind of vibrateupwards or vibrate to hell,
however that is, and this kindof stick of purgatory and the
element of being born.
(21:57):
As you're speaking, I'm hearingwhat you're saying, and that
resonates with me just based onthe upbringing that I've had,
which has been predominantlyHindu.
And Hinduism almost teaches youthat your heaven and hell is
here.
This is it.
So I'm fascinated by what you'resaying.
And also, you mentioned so manydifferent, almost like
(22:21):
components that people havedifferent NDE experiences.
So what are the common themesfor NDE experiences?
Because you mentioned that thenumbers of people having
experiences of going to health.
compared to the experiences ofhaving almost like a universal
kind of God love experience.
(22:42):
The numbers seem quite differentthere.
So what are the common kind ofexperiences that you've
researched when it comes to NDEsor that you've come across?
Almost like the common themes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
They all vary, but a lot of them will see a pinprick
of light and will startdescending towards the light.
A lot of them will have a lifereview where they see and
experience all of the good andthe bad that they caused other
people as that other personexperiences.
So if you said a cruel word, youwould experience how that other
(23:15):
person felt.
If you physically harmed anotherperson, you would feel the
physical harm that that personexperienced.
And you would also feel the goodtoo, like if you did something
loving or kind, you would feelthat during the life review.
And it's common to meet departedloved ones or to see religious
figures like Jesus and thingslike that.
(23:37):
And it doesn't seem to vary thatmuch between someone who died as
a Christian and someone who diednot as a Christian, that the
experiences tend to be prettysimilar.
Sometimes a Christian or someonefrom a particular church might
have a more overtly Christianexperience, especially like if
(24:00):
you were a Catholic, you mightbe more inclined to see Mary
than a Christian or anon-Christian would tend to see
Mary.
So it sort of tends to maybe bea bit more connected to your
faith, but a lot of the overallexperiences of warmth and love
and peace, seeing departed lovedones, seeing beautiful imagery
(24:24):
is very similar.
And the experiences betweenadults and children, them to
have a lot of similarities aswell.
So there's a lot of variationwithin each individual
experience, but there's a lot ofcommonality in terms of the
overall message and feeling thatyou get from a near-death
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
That is really fascinating.
What do you think that tells usabout humans and our need for
Not so much our need, but whatdoes that really tell us?
Do you feel in your kind ofexperience and research that
you've done that there arealmost like individual
differences based on your faith,but ultimately the commonalities
(25:07):
are there in your experience?
What does that tell us abouthumans?
SPEAKER_00 (25:11):
There was one near-death experiencer who was
told that there's sort of afeedback loop that people can go
into where they experience tosome degree what they expect to
experience.
And that was Mel and ThomasBenedict.
So a lot of times, as youinitially get into the
(25:32):
near-death experience, it'll fitmore with what your expectations
are.
This isn't always true, but itcan happen.
A lot of times, I think it'ssort of molded to where we are
at that point.
God can start us where we areand then sort of bring us along
over time.
And I think...
(25:52):
A lot of near-death experiencerswill experience very beautiful
imagery, like I was in abeautiful garden.
And they get the feeling thatthis place was created
specifically for them, that itwas sort of like their soul put
together a unique heaven orheavenly experience that was for
(26:13):
them.
And they thought maybe otherpeople would experience
something different.
Maybe it would be beautiful andpeaceful.
but the imagery might bedifferent.
It might not be a garden.
Maybe it would be at the beachor home or something like that.
It could take different forms,but the overall experience would
be the same in terms of feelingat home, feeling love, feeling
(26:38):
peace and seeing beautifulimagery.
And I guess sort of said in mybook, if you're familiar with
Star Trek, it's kind of like theholodeck in the sense that you
can create a lot of the imagerythat you want.
And I believe that you can sortof co-create with other people
(26:58):
that are there too, to sort ofcreate a collage of experiences
and imagery.
The imagery is both in a senseallegorical, but in a sense, it
also takes on a literal realityfor you too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
Gosh, I always, always love talking to you
because you always bring up somenew stuff.
When it comes to all of theexperiences, when we spoke last
time, I briefly told you aboutmy near-death experience.
And I know that you haveresearched and spoken to so many
people.
(27:34):
Whose kind of near-deathexperience or how many have you
become really fascinated by?
Because something in that notonly taught you something, but
opened up this new possibilityof understanding something for
you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:49):
One of the NDEs that seems pretty powerful was Melon
Thomas Benedict.
And he was one that was given atour of heaven and he was given
a lot of understanding about howthe NDE works.
And he was someone that when hecame back, he felt like he could
go into the light and and getmore understanding.
(28:12):
And he became an inventor andinvented a lot of different
products.
And he felt like he was gettingthis information from the light.
He had a brain tumor in 1982 andhad died and went to heaven and
had all his experiences.
But then when he came back, hewas instantly healed of this
(28:35):
brain tumor.
The doctor said it was aspontaneous remission, but it
was basically a miracle.
And he went on to live for 35more years until his eventual
passing ultimately in 2017.
But I always thought hisnear-death experience was
fascinating and it sort of puteverything in perspective.
(28:55):
And there's been a lot of othernear-death experiencers that
have come later that were giventours of heaven and given
different understandings thatwere similar to his.
I think there's some that arejust quite peaceful and you see
radical changes in the person'slife.
Like Danny and Brinkley wentfrom someone who was, in his own
(29:15):
words, he was a jerk and he waskind of violent and it's not a
very nice person.
He came back and became someonewho was very loving and kind and
was transformed by hisnear-death experience.
And Howard Storm was kind ofmuch the same way.
And he actually went from beingan atheist to and to being a
Christian pastor.
And he said he experiencedJesus.
(29:38):
When his near-death experiencestarted, it started sort of
hellish because he was in ahospital in France.
He's from the United States, buthe was visiting with an art
class in France.
He was a professor and he diedand he was taken to another room
and he thought they weredoctors, but they were speaking
English so clearly and theydidn't have accents.
(30:02):
So it kind of shocked him.
But then when they got himanother room, they started
attacking him and talking lesskind to him.
And they were demons.
But then he had the thought ofcalling out to Jesus.
And then essentially everythingopened up.
The light came in and he had aheavenly experience with Jesus
and was told a lot ofinteresting things, too.
(30:25):
I mean, one of the things that Iliked about Howard Storm, and
I've seen other NDEs, is heconfirmed.
that we're not alone in theuniverse.
He asked Jesus and the angels,are there other beings in the
universe?
And they said, well, theuniverse is filled with life and
there are other universes filledwith life.
So there is other worlds andthere are some beings
(30:49):
essentially are human or lookhuman and other beings look
quite different from us, butthat there are many worlds and
that he said that Jesus had beenthe savior of various worlds.
He didn't have to die on everyworld.
Some worlds just embraced hismessage of love and peace and he
blessed them.
(31:09):
But I thought, well, that's kindof interesting because if you're
a Christian and you see Jesus asnot only the savior of the
world, but the savior of manyworlds, I think that that would
be kind of an exciting thing formost Christians.
But a lot of Christians aren'teven open to the idea that there
would be other worlds Godcreated.
(31:30):
they kind of think this is theonly one.
But I thought that would befascinating if Jesus was the
savior of many worlds.
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
Wow, that's incredible because there is so
much science now that ispointing in that direction where
energetically the universe on anenergetic level is filled with
different energies and whetherthey have a physical form or
not.
So that is really, reallyinteresting.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
(32:01):
That absolutely fascinates me.
And I can understand, I can hearthe excitement in your voice
when you're talking about that.
Would you consider now lookingat, you know, because you have
looked at NDEs very much from aChristian perspective, from the
perspective of your faith andyour belief in your
understanding, would you want tolook at or have you looked at
(32:21):
the scientific rationale of theother universes and what is out
there that you could bring intothis?
I don't know.
I'm putting it out there.
What do you think, Jay?
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
I've looked at different scientific things
related to the near-deathexperience, and I do like to
follow what's going on in termsof science.
You know, when they find newpotential Earth-like planets,
there's quite a few of them.
I wonder if planets like theKepler-452b, which is supposed
to be possibly very Earth-like,I wonder...
(32:55):
Who is there or if there arebeings there?
I wonder that about a lot ofthese Earth-like planets they're
starting to find and trying topiece together.
Sometimes I wish I knew what wasthere specifically on some of
those planets.
I know that there is the idea ofstring theory where scientists
are talking about our universemay have came out of another
(33:18):
universe and that there's amultiverse out there.
So I think that goes along withwhat Howard Storm was saying
about many universes.
So yeah, I do look at thingslike that.
And I get into some things aboutUFOs in terms of looking at the
history of different culturesand people and their
(33:39):
experiences, like the NativeAmericans talk about star people
visiting them.
And this is pretty common inother cultures as well, that
they write about having peoplefrom the sky and from the stars
visiting them.
And then there's people, ofcourse, today in our modern
times that talk about seeingUFOs and things like that.
(34:01):
I don't know about, in terms ofthe ones that are abducted, that
I would think those aliensprobably aren't too good if
they're abducting people anddoing experiments, essentially
kidnapping.
I don't think the greys and thereptilians represent most of
what the aliens that are outthere.
I think most aliens that are outthere are basically good and
(34:24):
that they're as good as humansor possibly better in terms of
their compassion and love.
There may be a few ones that areon the darker side, but I think
that there have been alienencounters throughout history
that people have experienced.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah, it's so fascinating how just you looking
into NDEs has opened up thepossibility of multiverses and
other universes and planets.
It's incredible.
So tell me, where can people,firstly, where can they buy your
book?
And then tell us about what moreyou've got happening.
SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
Well, they can buy my book on...
amazon it's called heaven'struth the parallels between the
bible and the near-deathexperience and i've written a
second book on meditation it'scalled meditation for everyone
how to quickly have a morepeaceful mindful and fulfilled
life and so that's sort of whati'm working on now is uh i've
(35:29):
written a meditation book andnow i want to put together an
online course on meditation thati'm working on currently And I'm
writing other books too.
I'm writing like a kind of adevotional book about walking as
children of the light that goesin it more from a Christian
perspective and looking atthings like scripture.
(35:50):
But I bring in concepts likemeditation and to it and using
meditation as a base to practiceyour faith.
But my book Meditation forEveryone was written in a
non-sectarian way that people ofvarious faiths or no faith at
all could pick up the book andfind benefit from.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
That's so great.
Jay, what I always like to askmy guests before they head off
is, would you like to leave aquestion for the listeners just
to get them thinking aboutsomething, about an area of
their life or about somethingelse?
And, you know, it could even bea question that you've asked
(36:31):
yourself while on this journeythat Because you have definitely
asked yourself a lot ofquestions and you've thrown out
a lot of questions too.
Do you have one that you couldshare?
SPEAKER_00 (36:42):
I guess I would say, why are we here and what is our
purpose in this world, bothcollectively and individually?
Because I'd say the purpose forus collectively is to learn and
to grow and then also to loveand experience love, both in
(37:02):
terms of us loving others andbeing able to experience love
from others.
That's sort of the collectivepurpose in life.
But what does that mean forindividual people?
What are you here to learn andgrow about?
And how can you grow andexperience love in your own
personal life?
Where does that lead you interms of your calling as a human
(37:26):
being on earth?
So that's maybe what I wouldask.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Incredibly powerful question.
One last question from me,actually, if that's okay.
And that is, you've exploredNDEs, like you've said, very
much from your faithperspective.
Do you collaborate with peoplefrom other faiths and cultures
and atheists on theirexperiences or any other
research outside of Christianitywhen it comes to NDEs?
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Yeah, I would say I've read a lot of...
near-death experiences comingfrom different perspectives.
And I belong to a lot ofdifferent groups online, so I
get to hear different NDEexperiences and some things that
are interesting just in generalthat I didn't really get into in
my book was the possibility ofreincarnation.
(38:17):
Because that seems to be quitecommon in many near-death
experiences, that they havelived multiple times and that
they were learning from eachlifetime.
It's not in every NDE, butthere's quite a few NDEs where
it seems like the concept ofreincarnation does come up.
And so, yeah, I look atdifferent perspectives and I
(38:39):
wrote the parallel between theBible and the NDE because that's
where my background is.
I think it might be possible forsomeone to write the parallels
between a different faith systemand the NDE as well.
If someone understood Buddhism,they might write a comparing of
the two as well, or Islam andthe NDE.
(39:03):
In fact, there was one NDE wherea woman did meet Jesus, but she
was also quoted a scripture fromthe Quran and she was not
Muslim, but she came back andfound out that that was actually
in the Quran.
Obviously, I've talk about mybook, the NDE supporting the
(39:24):
Bible and saying that the Biblewas divinely inspired.
But was God inspiring andworking through other prophets
and other sages in differentcultures?
I think the answer is probablyyes.
So that there could be levels ofinspiration in other works as
well.
So yeah, I look at differentfaith perspectives and what
(39:47):
other people are saying and whattheir experiences were.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
I hope you enjoyed that.
Thank you for joining me forthis episode of Eternal
Paradigm.
Join me next time.
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