Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Eternal
Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Hello, welcome to this episodeof Eternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
(00:25):
I just want to share with you,it's a little bit of a
celebration because for seriesone of Eternal Paradigm, we have
hit 30 episodes.
Yes, this is episode 31.
There we go.
And this episode is justbrilliant.
I mean, absolutely brilliantbecause I say that about all of
(00:45):
the episodes and all of myguests, but that's okay because
that's who they are.
That's who the universe alignsme with because I feel like
aligning with these people,these incredible, amazing guests
who are experts in their field,in their journeys, in their
lives, lets me bring to you thedifferent opportunities,
(01:09):
possibilities, challenges, roadbumps, mountains, and all of
that stuff.
And also how they've navigatedtheir way through all of that.
So just going back, To me, I'man incredibly curious soul, like
very curious, very inquisitive.
And that's why I like doing thisand also just working with
(01:32):
people.
I'm obsessed with human, human'sbehavior.
I just find it fascinating whencertain people do things.
I do kind of go, wow, that'samazing.
Why did that happen?
Why did they do that?
Because I am nosy.
But I do the same thing tomyself.
Because I'm just so incrediblynosy.
Just a little bit of an update,really.
(01:54):
Eternal Paradigm is stillhappening, still carrying on.
We still have a few moreepisodes left to go before I
head off onto a mini break.
But we're still going to havebackground stuff happening.
Just to give you a quick headsup, guys, remember that the
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(02:15):
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(02:35):
Keep your feedback and yourcomments coming.
Absolutely love those.
you know it's just so amazingyou know ever since the podcast
started it's been incrediblejust to hear all this feedback
from people about which episodeshave really really shifted
something for them or shown themwhat's possible for them and
(02:56):
also to get listeners to get youto see what's possible for you
the other thing that's beenhappening as well is in the
context of work for me lots ofthings have been changing so
when I first started thepodcast, I was in quite an
exploratory place, actually.
I was, you know, I was coaching,but I still considered myself to
(03:21):
be quite a boring person, whichI think I am, just so you know.
I mean, compared to the people Italk to, I am, yeah, quite
boring.
But I won't keep going on aboutthat.
And now things are looking...
Quite different.
So everyone who's been listeningto the podcast from the
beginning, right up until nowand moving onwards, I'm on my
(03:44):
journey just as much as you are.
And it's just such an incrediblejourney to be on.
There are ups, there are downs,there are real lows, there are
absolute uncoverings.
There are total revelations.
And that's what life is.
Life doesn't have to be thiscrazy roller coaster constantly,
(04:06):
unless that's what you want.
But actually, it is anincredibly, amazingly powerful
journey.
And it's just enjoying thejourney that really matters.
So remember, going back tosocials, still got the Instagram
page there, Eternal ParadigmPodcast.
I am going to be doing a fewmore things on Instagram, like,
(04:30):
you know, maybe some reels andstuff like that.
It's just all in the pipeline.
Now I kind of...
I'm officially holding thistitle, guys.
Creativity coach andtransformational therapist.
That's what I do.
And so as a transformationaltherapist, I use hypnosis,
(04:51):
specifically RTT, to really workwith subconscious programming.
That in itself is a wholedifferent conversation.
And if you want to talk to meabout it, Get in touch.
I am always open toconversations.
But you know that the podcast isnot really all about me.
(05:11):
It's about my guests and it'sabout what they bring with them.
This episode is just brilliantbecause I am joined by the
incredible Camilla Miller.
And we have such an interestingconversation based on her
experience and her work asparenting coach.
Camilla really, really goes intoher story about what happened,
(05:35):
what opened up to her, what sherealized.
And then moving on from there,it's the possibilities that
opened up for her.
And there are lots ofsimilarities in the work that
Camilla does and in the workthat I've been doing.
It really, really shows when I'mlistening to her how when we
grow up as adults and we grow upphysically physically, but we're
(06:00):
still operating as the childrenthat we were.
So just a quick reminder, I havegot an inner child exploration
coming up over the summer.
More details to that willfollow.
But now going back to Camilla,check her out, please.
I mean, she has an incrediblyactive Facebook group and all
(06:22):
the details to get in touch withCamilla are available in the
show notes.
Listen to this episode as well.
So this is for anyone, anyonewho really, really wants to
understand how to really growand add value to their parenting
journey and to see theirchildren flourish, which is what
(06:43):
we all want.
But this episode is not specificas such for parents, because
what you hear and what you learnis is relevant to you as an
individual so sharing all mylove with you thank you for
listening keep your feedbackcoming absolutely love it and
with that I'll leave you withthis episode
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Hello, thank you so
much for having me here.
I'm so excited to be here.
My name is Camilla Miller.
It is my married name.
Most people laugh at my name,but my parents weren't that
cruel.
My husband did try a Priscillafirst and ended up with a
Camilla.
So it is Camilla Miller.
Easy to remember.
I am a authorised language oflistening coach, which I'm going
(07:24):
to be telling you all about,about the difference in language
of listening and how it cancompletely transform family life
like it did with my
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
Wow.
So there was a Priscilla beforethe Camilla came along.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
It didn't last long,
he promised.
Okay.
There is a Camilla.
SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
Yeah, that's genius.
So tell us more about, well,firstly, the language of
listening, what it is, how itcame about and how it showed up
in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
Yeah, you know, it
showed up in my life because I
have two children.
My son is now 14 and my daughter12.
But when he was born, He was themost easiest, compliant, laid
back kind of child.
And I didn't really have tothink much about my parenting.
And I thought, actually, I wasquite epic at this because he
was so easy.
And I didn't really have tothink much about what I was
(08:19):
doing.
And I remember going to allthese playgroups and these moms
saying that they werestruggling.
And I was thinking, what's allthe fuss about?
He was so easy.
And it was only when my daughterwas born that things started to
change.
And she was one of these not to60 kind of kids, I like to call
them, the ones that go you know,that take over family life and
the loud ones and the tantrums.
(08:40):
The tantrums used to take overfamily life.
She used to say the witch hadcome to visit because these
tantrums, she would literallyfoam at the mouth and kick and
scream.
And it was a complete nightmare.
For a few years, I was fightingwith my husband about the best
way to discipline her.
And nothing I seemed to do wasworking.
And I was told I just needed tobe firmer and be stricter and
(09:03):
tell her what's what.
And all of that was just leavingme a way too much.
I'd go to bed feeling like I wasgoing down with a sore throat or
the flu.
And I just realized I'd beenshouting all day.
And I ended up feeling thatthere was something wrong with
me.
Like, why can't I do it?
Why is like the naughty step notworking?
Why are all these reward chartsnot working?
And I thought there wassomething wrong with me.
(09:23):
And then I started thinkingthere was something wrong with
her, that why can't she do it?
All these other kids seem to befine, but what was the matter
with her?
And I remember the situation wasthe turning point for me.
I remember going to thesupermarket with her And she had
this major meltdown.
I had to leave a trolley full offood and dragging her out of the
supermarket.
I was mortified and embarrassed.
(09:44):
I remember holding her a bit tootight under the arm and thinking
to myself, I'm going to win.
I'm going to win this argument.
And it was that thought that Isuddenly realized, oh my
goodness, if I'm winning, thenshe's losing.
And no wonder we're stuck inthis power struggle.
And why am I struggling intrying to power over my gorgeous
four-year-old daughter?
None of that worked.
(10:07):
And that's when I startedlooking for answers.
I knew there had to be anotherway.
I knew that it wasn't that I wasbad or there was something wrong
with her.
I knew that it was just thetools I was using wasn't
working.
And I found Language ofListening.
On the internet, I was Googlingone night.
I was up all night frettingabout it, as we do.
(10:27):
And I came across this amazingtraining.
It took me two years to train.
So I'm now the only authorizedlanguage listening coach in the
UK.
But really, it answered all myquestions.
It answered what I was lookingfor, that I wanted to still
remain in charge, but I wantedto also bring out my children's
greatness.
And everything just fell intoplace.
(10:49):
It just started working.
It's like a little bit ofparenting magic.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Oh gosh, there's so
much in that story.
There's two things that I'd liketo circle back to really.
One is the reward chart and thesecond thing is the naughty
step.
Actually, no, there's so muchmore.
There's the shouting, thenthere's the winning and losing
and the comparison to otherchildren.
(11:13):
Yes.
There's so much there because,you know, if that's what we're
getting as children and that'swhat we're expecting as adults,
No matter we're so unhappy andso unfulfilled.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Yes, because it's
this idea that we need to
control another human.
Do you know, I used to have thisthought that if only my daughter
would listen, I wouldn't have toshout.
And she was most probablythinking that only if mommy
didn't shout, I would listen.
You see this funny cycle we putourselves in.
No wonder she didn't listenbecause who would listen to
(11:46):
someone who's shouting and mean?
You know, it's quite funny whenwe think about it.
I think we have to laugh aboutit because it's just human
nature and it sort of takes thejudgment out of what we do.
I mean, it's human nature how wework.
It's a funny cycle we getourselves on because if we think
about it, we get frustrated.
So we shout more.
And then of course, And then wethink about going into the
(12:09):
threats.
And if you don't do as I say,then you're going to take away
the iPad, you know, or take awaysomething.
If you think about that as anadult, if someone took away my
phone, I would be pretty lividand I most probably wouldn't
listen to that person or do asthey say.
Would you?
If someone took your things awayfrom you?
UNKNOWN (12:25):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (12:27):
No, definitely not.
I'm just thinking about thismorning, actually.
The school run was interestingbecause my daughter refused to
put her seatbelt on.
She just didn't understand why Iwas fussing about it because I
was driving anyway.
It didn't matter if she had iton.
And it's these things, right?
Because as adults, we're kind ofimmediately looking at danger.
(12:48):
No, this shouldn't happen.
And to the child, there is nofull understanding at that
point.
Because in her eyes, she wasjust like, the seatbelt's an
irritant.
I don't need it.
And you're driving and notfocusing on me.
So what are you talking about?
And then I had to kind of workout how to explain to her why
(13:08):
she needed to be wearing herseatbelt.
You know, the whole kind of why.
And even then, it wasn't goodenough for her.
And I was like, okay, how do Iexplain this one without getting
to that point of saying, right,fine, well, I'm not going to
drop you off to school then.
Because that's what I really
SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
wanted to say.
I know, yes.
It's challenging, isn't it, as aparent?
And that's what I love aboutlanguage of listening, because
it gives you this wonderful,simple three-step coaching model
where you actually understandwhy your child's behavior makes
sense, why she's doing that, andhow to get what you want in a
way that actually works.
And how old is your daughter?
So the youngest is four.
(13:46):
Four, so she's four, yes.
Do you know what?
Our children see the world sodifferently than we do.
So differently.
They don't have logic andreasoning.
She has no logic about why sheneeds to wear a seatbelt.
They believe Father Christmasflies around the world
delivering presents overnight.
They believe that's true.
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
Then that's magic,
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
right?
Because I want some of that.
Because then she's coming backwith counter reasons about why
she doesn't need it in herlogic.
And you're getting morefrustrated because you think if
(14:30):
you just understood why you haveto wear a seatbelt, you would
wear it.
Yeah.
Yes.
But she doesn't care.
So that's the cycle we findourselves on.
So in the lounge of listening,we say there's no logic, less
reasons.
I think we try and convince ourchildren why our way is better
rather than just holding theboundary.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
This is so true.
When you say no logic, this isactually quite interesting
because I was running a trainingsession yesterday about this and
how Western thinking and justgenerally parenting has become
this logical model Although Iwasn't actually talking about
parenting, I was talking aboutit in the context of work and
(15:09):
thinking.
We're programmed to be logical,right?
Because that's how our brainlikes to be, like organized,
functioning.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
because we're
adults.
We say logic in a way, I think,to convince the other person
that we're right and they'rewrong.
Actually, we're both right.
So if you just know that you'reright, we don't have to justify
ourselves.
And this is a lot of the thingwe do in parenting.
And this is why I love languageof listening, because it's not
just a parenting model.
It's actually just how humanswork.
And you can use it with yourpartner, with your in-laws.
(15:39):
I've got clients who use it atwork.
And to get rid of the logic isjust that you're both right.
I think we grow up thinkingthere's only one way to do
something.
And that's why we go into thislogic to convince the other
person.
It's this right or wrong.
rather than, of course, youdon't want to wear your
seatbelt, darling.
You know, it's really annoyingand you really don't want to
(16:00):
wear it.
And you have to wear a seatbeltin the car.
So the child feels, of course,your child is still right for
not wanting to wear theseatbelt.
And you're right for wanting towear it.
So that's the boundary ratherthan trying to convince your
child to want to like it.
Guess what?
They don't have to want to likeit.
They might have to do it.
But we want to feel connected.
(16:21):
We want to feel understood.
And so when we say what you see,which is the first step in
language of listening, aframework is always to get on
your child's side.
Why does that behavior makesense?
And when we connect with ourchild without the logic, without
the judgments and assumptions,we get into the moment.
The child feels validated.
They feel heard.
the connection is met and thenthey're primed to want to listen
(16:44):
to us.
And then we're primed to want tooffer the guidance because we're
not frustrated getting into anargument about who's right and
who's wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
Yeah.
Right at the beginning, when youwere talking about your story
and when you first discoveredthe language of listening, you
said it was the discovery ofanother way.
And that's what is sointeresting about it, because
actually it Really, it's notanother way because it's how it
should be to look at anotherperson, to look at another child
(17:15):
as a whole and complete humanbeing.
as opposed to having this rightor wrong or winning and losing,
good and bad type of judgmentlooming over it all.
SPEAKER_01 (17:27):
Yes, exactly.
It is so simple when we moveaway from the judgment and the
control because control isalways an illusion.
We can never control anotherperson.
We might control a child in themoment and we might...
We can never get your child todo something.
If we use control, it's alwayswith resentment.
It is always out of guilt orfear when we use control over a
(17:50):
child.
And that's not what we reallywant.
We want to get the willingcooperation.
I do believe that most of us, Iknow myself in the past, see
parenting as very black andwhite.
We see that there's only twooptions, is that my job is to
control my children.
My job is to teach my childrenin fixed situations and And we
react to a lot of fear asparents.
(18:12):
And if we think if we're notdoing this, if we're not taking
the iPad away or theconsequences and all the other
things that we're made tobelieve we need to do, then the
only option is permissive, whichis let the kids get away with
it.
I hear this a lot, like pickyour battles.
Like it is a win-lose paradigm.
Because if we're controlling ourchild, we're winning and our
child is losing.
(18:32):
And if we're permissive, thechild's winning and we're
losing.
Nowhere on that cycle works.
And that's why it's exhaustingbecause permissive isn't good
either.
So language of listening is allabout guiding your children to
the behavior that you wantbecause you still want
boundaries.
This enables you to still holdfirm with your boundaries.
(18:52):
You are still in charge.
But at the same time, it's allabout bringing out your child's
inner greatness so they gainconfidence in their abilities,
they have a positive innervoice, and they base their
decisions on who they believethey are, not on the fear of
missing out on a play date orthe fear of not getting the
iPad.
To raise children who know whatthey want, know how to get their
(19:15):
needs met within yourboundaries, and they see the
possibilities in life.
And that's what I want.
I think that's what we all wantfor our children.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
And why wouldn't you?
You know, it's so interestingbecause I'm listening to
everything you're saying.
And this whole thing about theinner voice is so important,
especially in the work that I dowith my clients, because the
inner voice is usually not eventhe voice of the person.
(19:44):
It's that voice of myself.
primary caregivers that has beenrunning the internal dialogue,
which is why a lot of adultshave been feeling so unfulfilled
and unsettled and have thissense of feeling unworthy
because everything has alwaysoperated from a control or lack
(20:04):
mentality.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
It's true.
I think there's a huge gapbetween what we think We're
teaching our children what wethink we're doing.
Because as parents, we meanwell.
We mean well.
We love our children.
We want to see them besuccessful.
Majority of us as parents, welove our children.
We want to see them grow.
But there's a huge gap betweenwhat we think we're doing and
the messages our children takeaway.
(20:26):
And the inner voice is, I'm notgood enough.
I can't do it.
Or I feel ignored or I feelunworthy.
Yeah, these are the messagesthat do start in childhood.
I agree.
SPEAKER_00 (20:37):
Yeah, so much.
One of the things you mentionedin your personal uncovering and
when you were really looking foranswers was the arguing with
your husband, right?
because of your daughterbasically having these tantrums.
And so what happens now?
What happened at that point?
Because you've obviously goneand done this whole course,
(20:59):
which has transformed everythingfor you.
How did that then play out inyour relationship?
Because as parents, you're ateam.
Even as a single parent, you mayhave people that you connect
with to offer you that supportto prop you up in what needs to
be done.
How did that work out for youand what were the biggest
(21:20):
insights and learnings when itcame to your relationship at
that point or as you as a kindof a unit as parents?
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
Yeah, I think it was
actually seeing that me and my
husband, we both wanted the samething for our daughter.
We both wanted to see her thriveand not have mega tantrums.
You know, she didn't want themeither.
For me, I think it's easy whenwe're battling with our partner
or another family member isactually to see the greatness in
that person.
(21:57):
in the way that we were raised.
We go on autopilot, and if wethink the only option is to come
down strict and shout andcontrol and punish, then That's
the model we see.
We don't see another way.
When I work with parents as wellis to share with both parents
that there's a way to get whatyou want as well as supporting
the child.
(22:17):
And coming alongside my husbandand learning together, he also
saw the success with it.
Because I remember asking mydaughter once when she was
little, I said, how come youlisten to me?
And she said, because you getme, mommy, you understand me.
And that was a real turningpoint because you he started
realizing that actually whenchildren feel heard and
(22:39):
validated, that is when you getthe willing cooperation, you can
offer the guidance.
Because until your child feelsconnected, heard, seen, they are
not willing to listen to youbecause we wouldn't either as
human beings, we don't tend tolisten to people that find fault
in us and punish us.
We don't look to them forguidance.
So that was the step really isworking together and seeing the
(23:02):
end goal is what we want is tooffer the love and guidance
rather than the control.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Yeah, and that just
makes so much sense.
When you're working withparents, because you're working
with parents all the time, Whathave been the biggest
revelations and insights thatparents have gained within their
own parenting from working withyou?
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
Well, most parents
come to me because, as I said
before, we don't really questionour parenting until things go
wrong, until things are like, Ican't take this anymore.
like you can't take the behavioranymore when there's too much
shouting going on at home andthere's too much stress that's
when parents tend to reach outto me it's fascinating that
within a couple of weeks thetantrums have gone from like
(23:45):
five hours or the arguments athome have gone from five hours
to literally non-existent withina couple of weeks which is
incredible and then parents sayto me oh maybe my good child
isn't good for the right reasonsthat's when you start realizing
that the good child the one wewe seem good is actually the the
obedient child, yes, thecompliant child, and maybe
(24:07):
they're not obedient andcompliant for the right reasons.
And then we want to change.
That's a big aha moment.
But also, it is about not...
teaching and fixing and allthese things we're made to
believe to do.
It's actually exhausting as aparent to feel like we're always
having to do and mold and fixsituations and make our kids
(24:29):
happy.
And that's the biggestrealization, actually.
It's so much easier this way.
It's more relaxing.
There's less to do.
I think it's more about trustingyour child, seeing the
transformation, seeing thepathway, and seeing the
successes along the way, ratherthan seeing them as situations
that are It's
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
so interesting
because the whole, and I use
that word a lot, which is quiteirritating for me, but
interesting.
But the whole thing youmentioned also, it's like, you
know, we parent on autopilot, weparent based on how our parents
parented us.
Then you have some people whomake a very active decision to
never parent the way that theirparents parented them, but they
(25:14):
still don't know how to parent.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
And I find that a
lot because if we didn't like to
be, a lot of people, if we grewup with a very strict background
and we were shouted at orbelittled or shamed or, you
know, the punishment, and wedon't want that for our
children, we tend to be morepermissive and we let our
boundaries go and go and go andgo.
And then we end up losing ourcool.
And neither were good.
Being overly permissive oroverly trying to fix our kids
(25:40):
and make our kids happy thewhole time and try and use logic
and reasoning.
And it's just, it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Yeah.
Logic, reason, scare tactics,taking this away.
My favourite one, actually, mydaughter pointed this out to me.
She said, Mum, you know what?
Lately, you've stopped tellingme what it was like when you
were a kid, which is reallynice.
And I thought, but I realisedbecause what I was doing is even
if I wasn't comparing them tosomeone else, I was still
(26:09):
comparing them to me, which wasmaking them feel almost like not
heard, not listened to and notvalid because I was comparing
their childhood to mine.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the other thing.
It's funny.
Which we do.
It's funny what we do as humans.
UNKNOWN (26:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Give myself a good
giggle.
Yeah.
So tell us more about, Camilla,where can people find out more
about you, what you do, what'shappening?
You know, where, what, why?
Tell us.
SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Yeah, well, I have a
website,
keepingyourcoolparenting.com.
I call it Keeping Your Coolbecause that was really not me
at the beginning of my journey.
And this model really does helpyou remain calm, in charge, in
control of your own reactions,stop shouting.
And I've got lots of blogs onthere that introduces you to the
(27:02):
language.
of listening.
you can also reach out there toconnect.
I do lots of one-to-one work, alot of work is with husband and
wives together because I lovethat, to bring parents together
to be on the same sheet, to beable to support each other as
well and support the family andget the family life they so
want.
I also have a Facebook group,which I'll share the link with.
(27:26):
I'm going to be doing some moreworkshops coming up.
I've got a workshop coming upthis summer about how to stop
shouting at your kids and getyour kids to listen willingly.
Willingly, that's what we want.
Our kids wanting to listen tous.
SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
Oh, wow.
That's going to be incredible.
On your Facebook group, which Iam a part of, and I have to
thank Maria for adding me onbecause it's so valuable because
you even share some incredibletips on your Facebook page.
Then you've got your blog again,which is incredible in terms of
(28:01):
what you're sharing.
When you're out and about andyou see situations unfolding and
you can hear what the parent'ssaying, see how the child's
behaving, how do you view thesituation, respond to the
situation?
Do you find yourself in thisposition where you're out and
about and you're like, I reallyjust want to say something, but
I'm not going to?
(28:22):
Or do you just kind of stepaway?
I
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
learn to step away
now.
Yes.
I do say to myself, I wish theyknew language of listening.
It would make life so mucheasier.
But, you know, I see thegreatness in parents.
I see in that situation theparents struggling and trying
their best.
I do see that.
There was a couple of times Ihave actually stepped in.
I will tell you a funny storyabout I saw this mum once where
(28:47):
I went to Claire's accessorieswith my daughter.
She must have been about eightat the time.
And it was quite late.
It was like 5.30.
The shops were just about toshut.
And this young mom walked inwith this three-year-old boy.
You know, this place is likefull of sparkly stuff and full
of rows and rows of things thatthe child could pick up.
And the mother goes to the backof the shop and leaves the boy
(29:08):
in the front of the shop all byhimself.
And he's three.
Yes.
So the boy starts touchingeverything.
And then he picks up a packet ofsweets.
He takes the top off this tubeof sweets and he necks the whole
pack of sweets.
UNKNOWN (29:22):
Brilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Well, look, he's
three.
He can get access to the suite.
That makes
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
sense.
I get that.
And she's left him there.
So me and the shop assistant,we're all like looking.
And so she comes and pays forsomething.
And this little boy is likestill got a mouthful of food,
trying to swallow it.
And she noticed that he'seating, obviously.
UNKNOWN (29:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
And starts telling
him off and shouting at him.
So I was, I did feel really sadfor this boy.
She was like dragging him out ofthe shop saying, well, that's
it.
We're not going out for dinnernow.
And I did interrupt.
And I said, look, I don'tusually interrupt, but I saw
this whole situation unfold.
And you can tell me to shut upanytime, but I saw this unfold.
(30:03):
And I just wanted to let youknow that you did leave your son
in that position.
And to expect him not to do thatat three years old is quite
tricky, isn't it?
To be able to...
A lot of the time we put ourkids in situations that they
can't handle and then we blameour kids.
I did kept on saying, look, Idon't want to speak out of turn.
I didn't want to judge her, butI didn't want to let her know,
(30:23):
hey, do you know what?
You did leave your child in thatsituation.
And she did end up thanking meand saying, yeah, you know what?
You're right.
Thank you so much for pointingthat out.
They ended up going happily offtogether.
SPEAKER_00 (30:36):
The amount of times
you kind of see stuff like that.
And also they're so little, theyjust wander off, don't they?
Inkless accessories,everything's sparkly.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
and I think to see
things from your child's point
of view is so important.
You know, I see family outingsto the supermarket at eight
o'clock when the kids are hungryand tired and both parents are
there.
You're thinking, why not leaveone in the car?
That's what I think.
And the kids are crying andfussing and they're told off.
UNKNOWN (31:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
A lot of the time is
we put kids in situations which
they cannot handle and then weblame them.
And that puts more stress on ourkids and more stress on
ourselves as parents.
SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
That's so true.
Yes.
So I have very interestingconversations with my husband
about this very thing because heis he likes him to be involved
in everything, which is great.
So do I.
But at the same time.
when they've just finished anafter-school club they are tired
hangry don't take them to thesupermarket because that's not a
good time to get the weeklyshopping but to him yeah and
(31:36):
then he'll come back and he'llbe like oh gosh it was so hard
I'm not going again and therewas this and I'm like okay we're
gonna have to just review thisbecause Probably not the best
timing.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (31:49):
When we set out for
success, we get better results
rather than having to blame ourkids and get ourselves
frustrated.
SPEAKER_00 (31:56):
Yeah.
As you say that, the setting upfor success, there's a huge
sense of personal awareness,personal accountability as a
parent that comes into play.
And that, again, is somethingthat we're taught from the chasm
of this kind of logical thinkingmindset.
And then we throw that onto ourkids.
(32:17):
I'm not sure that's helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (32:19):
I know.
Also, I think the worddiscipline comes from the word
disciple, which means to teach.
I see this a lot, and I used todo it myself as well, but we
tell our children what we don'twant and then expect them to be
able to do it, but we haven'tactually told them how to do it.
And I think it's a bit liketeaching a child to read once
(32:39):
and then expecting them to beable to read a book but never
teach them how to or neverpractice how to.
And you see this a lot with kidscoming out of school and that
they're told off or they'd benaughty at school.
And the parents say or theteacher says, well, next time
try better.
But what does better mean?
How does the child learn?
know how to do that withoutteaching them self-regulation
(33:01):
skills or how to calm down, howto speak calmly, how to get
their needs met in a way thatyou do like.
Just telling our child not to dosomething, it's not very
helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
Totally agree with
that.
So I have a thing where I willactually say to the kids that
trying is lying.
They're like, why?
What does that mean?
It's because, partly because ofwhat I do is when you say to a
child, exactly like you said, totry harder, in their head, they
still think that there's a goalthat they have to achieve and
(33:32):
they beat themselves up whilethey're trying to get to it.
And my son, I see him do thisall the time because to him, try
harder still means showing up inthat classroom and trying to
beat a clock because that's whathis teachers told him to do.
But In between the little stepsof being able to focus, being
(33:52):
able to read the question, beingable to understand it, being
able to articulate it, to makesure he's understood it, all of
those little steps are missed.
But to him, he's still trying.
I agree.
Yes.
Which
SPEAKER_01 (34:05):
makes him feel
worse.
And also, do you know what?
When you say to a child, tryharder, in that moment, that
child has tried his hardest.
So therefore, that try harder,what does that mean?
That he's not trying hard?
And this little poor boy islike, I'm trying the hardest I
can.
And yet it's never good enough.
So no wonder we become adultsthat it's never good enough
because I'm trying my hardestand I'm still told to try
(34:27):
harder.
And as you said, we don't missthose steps and we don't see the
successes A child that's gonefrom having a full-blown tantrum
to stamping their feet, that's asuccess, yeah?
Absolutely.
That's a success.
A child goes from stamping herfeet to growling like a tiger or
like a dinosaur, that's asuccess.
(34:49):
We miss that if we're justwanting the end goal.
We don't see the successes alongthe way.
And we don't see that, oh mygoodness, that took so much
self-control to stump your feet.
rather than throwing somethingacross the room.
That
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
is a success.
That is.
I totally, totally agree.
And then what happens is, again,in my line of work, we become
adults who just focus on thegoal, trip up a million times
trying to get to it, getfrustrated with ourselves and
never stop to look at thesuccesses that we have basically
(35:25):
had because we're just notdesigned to celebrate those
successes.
Well, we are, but we're taughtnot to.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
We're taught not to.
I agree.
And we don't enjoy the journey.
This is the thing, especiallywith children, is that we don't
enjoy the amazingness of ourkids, of seeing their successes.
We just want the end goal.
And as you said, we do the samething with ourselves.
And we don't enjoy the, there'sno end goal.
Each day is an amazingopportunity to see the
(35:52):
strengths, to see how youyourself are changing and
adapting in the same thing withyour children.
to enjoy the moment and to seeyour child's amazingness and to
see their strengths is so muchmore rewarding than waiting for
like trying to fix and controland trying to get to this end
goal that might never happen.
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
Absolutely and
that's so so powerful.
Camilla I'd like to ask you andI like to ask all my guests this
would you leave a question forthe listeners to get them
thinking about what they can doto really connect with
themselves.
Because the language oflistening, it sounds like it
(36:34):
works on several levels.
And correct me if I'm wrong,because I still have to join all
of this with you.
But, you know, if you couldleave a question with the
listeners about something thatthey could really kind of think
about, do, or something thatcame up for you.
when you were learning aboutwhat you didn't want to be as a
(36:57):
parent?
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Yes, you're so right
with language of listening.
It is not only a parentingmodel, it's a self-coaching
model.
The first step, we all say thatall behavior makes sense.
all behavior makes sense.
Even when I was shouting like acomplete lunatic, all behavior
made sense.
So rather than beating myself upthinking, oh my God, I've got it
wrong, is to ask, why am Ishouting?
(37:19):
Or why am I behaving in a waythat I don't like?
And when you understand whybehavior makes sense and why
your behavior makes sense, youcan then find another way to get
that need met in a way that youdo like.
And so it all comes back to whyyou could ask yourself, why am I
shouting?
Or why Why am I...
What's showing up that you don'tlike in your life for yourself
(37:42):
or for your children?
And ask yourself, Why would I dothat?
Or you could ask yourself aquestion based for your child,
which is why would my amazing,gorgeous, wonderful child do
that?
Why does that behavior makesense?
When you come from that place,you come from a place of
curiosity.
You come from a place of findinganswers rather than judgment,
rather than labeling ourselvesor labeling our children.
(38:04):
And that's when we get to thereal understanding of what is
going on and how to change thatin a way that works for you and
for
SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
your child.
That's brilliant.
Can you just remind us one moretime of your website details,
please?
Yes, my website iskeepingyourcoolparenting.com.
Brilliant.
Thank you so much for joiningme, Camilla.
Everything that you have sharedhas been so valuable.
Exactly like you said, you don'thave to be a parent to
(38:34):
understand the value that youcan get from just joining the
Facebook group and also justfrom reading your blog posts
because it's far...
You said people you're workingwith are using this in the
workplace.
It's probably the best place itcould be used in the workplace.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
And imagine raising
adults who know this, raising
adults who see the world in thisway, raising adults who can
communicate in this way.
This will change the workplace.
This will change society becausethey base their decisions on
their greatness and see theworld in this way.
I hope you enjoyed
SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
that.
Thank you for joining me forthis episode of Eternal
Paradigm.
Join me next time.