July 14, 2021 • 60 mins
Life Coach, Energy Practitioner and Cacao Facilitator Nicola Melly joins Eternal Paradigm host Urmi Raval on this incredible exploration of her life.
Nicola speaks about her vision to open a retreat that could become a commune, her spiritual awakening at the age of 36 and how after drinking ceremonial cacao she decided to leave London during the first lockdown and moved to Cornwall.
Even though we do not talk about this in this episode, Nicola's first first job was importing olives and olive oil.
Nicola offers some incredible insights into her life journey and shares her knowledge about ceremonial cacao among many other things.
Find out more about Nicola here.
Guest: Nicola Melly
Host: Urmi Raval
Sound Editor: Maja Pronko
Final Thoughts & How to Get Involved
If this episode resonated, I’d love to hear from you. These stories are a reminder that deep transformation is possible, even from the most difficult places.
If you're ready to explore therapeutic coaching or want to understand how it could support your journey, get in touch. This work can be truly life-changing. Get in touch with me for a Discovery Call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Hi, welcome to this episode ofEternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
(00:22):
Before I head into this week'sepisode, I just wanted to share
with you some incrediblefeedback that I've had over the
last week.
Excuse me.
Just generally, really, aboutRohit's episode last week, or
Rohit, I should say, seeing as Iam on a mission to pronounce our
(00:43):
names correctly as they shouldbe.
It was actually reallyinteresting to hear.
So many of you growing up havehad experiences of feeling
different, of being theoutsider, and some because of
your visible differences thatother people have really felt
the need to point out, andothers who have also felt
(01:08):
different for their own reasons.
And, you know, being differentor feeling different We all feel
that, and that's what makes usthe same.
So my guide, my mentor, myhypnotherapy teacher, my RTT
teacher, Marissa Peer, alwayssays this, and there's so much
value in it.
(01:28):
Being different is somethingthat we all have in common.
Being different is actually whatmakes us all the same.
That's why this episode isactually such an interesting
conversation with thisincredible soul.
In the Creativity Series, youmust remember, I spoke to Lucy,
Lucy the artist, and she'sincredible.
(01:49):
If you haven't heard thatepisode, head on back to the
Creativity Series, because wehad such a laugh, such a laugh
recording that episode.
Lucy's introduced me to Nicola,and Nicola's my guest for this
week.
Before you go on to listen tothis really interesting,
fascinating conversation wherewe both say interesting and
(02:12):
fascinating a lot, becausethat's apparently like a
prerequisite of being someone,A, who's curious, B, who's
inquisitive, and C, who's kindof has a level of conscious
awareness, let's say.
Remember, Eternal ParadigmPodcast is available on
Instagram.
We've got a lovely communitythere, so come and join us.
(02:34):
Facebook, we have the Facebookpage where every week you'll get
an update with a new episode.
We've got the Facebook group,which we are currently at 30
people in the group.
And, you know, you can join thegroup because it's an open
group.
You can post questions.
You can share information.
As long as I approve of it, it'sall good.
(02:55):
As long as it's decent andrespectful.
So what else have we gothappening?
I mentioned a couple of episodesago that I'm in the process of
putting together the inner childexploration.
I have more details about thatcoming up over the next two
weeks.
And I'm really excited to sharethat with you.
However, for this episode, I amsuperbly excited to share my
(03:21):
conversation with Nicola Melly.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
It's really interesting that who are you is
such a big question and it'ssomething that I think about
quite a lot and I don't know ifanyone else or you feel the same
way, but who are you?
So often I think we go tointroduce ourselves by what
defines us the most, which is myjob.
(03:47):
And I don't know if you feel thesame about that.
But I guess ultimately, who amI?
I'm an imperfect human justtrying to figure this life out.
And subsequently, that has ledme down the path of helping
others do the same.
So I spend my time being a lifecoach.
I'm a trained cacao facilitator.
(04:10):
I'm also an attuned energyhealer, as well as a photography
producer.
And love island addict.
SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
What can I say to that?
Wow.
I just love it.
There's so much.
Cacao ceremony facilitator.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Yes.
So interestingly, I realizedthat I actually didn't even say
my name, but my name is Nicola,if anyone's interested.
UNKNOWN (04:38):
I love this.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
I start with my job, what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
But that's always a good place to start.
So this is where we're going tokind of rewind.
Nicola, welcome to EternalParadise.
Thank you so much.
Such a pleasure.
I love, I love, love.
Everything's all about love.
Just for the heads up, I sayamazing, interesting.
That's interesting a lot.
(05:04):
And that really irritates me.
So if you're irritated by it,please tell me to shut up.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Well, actually, I'm going to start printing a line
of spiritual based t-shirts atsome point.
And the first one's going to be,I've actually screen printed one
that said, isn't thatinteresting?
UNKNOWN (05:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
the most uttered as soon as you become very
conscious of the language thatyou use isn't that interesting
oh that's so interesting is themost uttered if I had a pound
for every time I heard thatphrase during my conversations
or my friends I'd be pretty rich
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
you and me both would be minted right so apart
from the kind of use of languagewhen you ascend into different
levels of consciousness.
Tell me about well the cacaoceremonies because actually I'm
going to ask you questions aboutso much because just in that I
want to say little but big introI could just sit here for hours.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
So I found ceremonial cacao A few years
ago, after I had my spiritualawakening, which was about four
years ago, I went to a soundlike a gong bath, which was
being held with ceremonialcacao.
And it was with a woman whosename I can't remember, but she
(06:27):
was from South America, whereobviously cacao originates or
one of the places that cacaooriginates from.
It was in a studio in London.
I'd read a little bit aboutcacao and how it was good for
basically doing deep innerjourneying work.
So it's not psychedelic, but itis psychoactive.
(06:48):
So it puts you in the chemicalcomposition of it in its rawest
form, even though it's notstrictly completely raw, means
that basically relaxes the softmuscle tissue and dilates your
blood vessels as well.
So it puts you in a veryphysically relaxed state, but
(07:09):
then it also increases theproduction of dopamine and
serotonin in the brain, as wellas then inducing a blocker,
which stops those two thingsdeteriorating.
So it puts you in an elevatedlove state.
in the brain and so it's usedfor spiritual work internal work
(07:35):
because it puts you in a greatrelaxed yet alert state for you
know going deep and journeyingwith the self so I went to a
ceremony and for many reasons Iwas hugely disappointed because
the studio I did it in washaving a like 90s rave drum and
bass dance class in the studionext door so obviously you know
(08:00):
it's very hard to really relaxYeah.
(08:25):
So I was cold and I wasirritated.
I was just like verydisappointed and then didn't
really get anything out of it atall.
And then a few or a couple ofyears later, I kind of got into,
there's a woman called RebeccaSharman.
I don't know if you've heard ofher.
She has ritual cacao.
(08:46):
I started doing her sporadicsort of ceremonies here and
there.
But during the first lockdown,So last year, I did a three-week
challenge where I starteddrinking cacao every morning, a
half a dose rather than a fullceremonial dose, and sort of
like went on a bit of a journeyof how it was affecting me, what
(09:09):
was going on.
Was it increasing my awareness?
Was it increasing my happiness?
I should also say that thespirit cacao is a plant
medicine.
So it has a very rich history.
It has quite dark history aswell with like the Mayans and
the Aztecs.
They used to use it for a ritualsacrifice and also before they
went into battle so it's quiteyeah wow has a very very rich
(09:33):
history which we won't go intohere but obviously if people
want to look read about it Ihighly recommend it's quite
fascinating so yeah I went on abit of a journey with it myself
it expands the energy of theheart the spirit of the plant
works with the heart energy andI do have quite challenging and
interesting heart energyblockage kind of things that is
(09:57):
something that I work on quite alot.
So you're saying all of thiswith a smile.
That's what I love.
It's like, I
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
have this challenging energy.
Very,
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
very aware of myself.
Yeah.
And I know, yes, I know what'sgoing on.
Yeah.
So I started drinking it and Ijust noticed that obviously
everything was very trying atthat point in time, being
self-employed and, you know,being, I lived by myself.
So being self, solely relying onyourself during a pandemic when
(10:30):
everything is going a bit nuts.
So I was drinking cacao and Iactually noticed that I was a
lot more open.
Also, my level of self-inquirywas really increasing.
And then I sat a cacao ceremonywhere you drink, well, you don't
have to, but I drank a fullceremonial dose of and had a
(10:52):
really beautiful journey.
And I don't really remember muchfrom it, but I woke up the next
morning and my first thoughtwas, it's time to move to
Cornwall, which is where I amcurrently.
Yes.
I'd been thinking about it foryears, but with the usual, very
socially conditioned head on, mylife was in London, my friends
(11:15):
were in London, my job andsecurity and home were in
London.
So I kind of ignored that heartcalling that was like I want a
new adventure and I was verymuch like no head like practical
blah blah blah but it woke upand I was just like my life in
London is done now like it'stime for something different and
(11:36):
it was really interestingbecause normally I would find a
way to talk myself out of it ohpractical things you know
pandemic times work money blahblah blah but I was like do we
really want to do this and myheart was like yes and yes yes
yes and I was like can we dothis and it was so interesting
because my ego was really verynon-present at that point like
(11:59):
it was like my ego was likeactually I'm kind of into this
idea as well and so we startedlooking we me and my ego
together started looking yeah myego yes I feel like there's like
a song in there somewhere Butyeah, so I started looking for
homes, started getting reallyexcited.
And I just handed my notice inon my flat straight away.
(12:21):
So there was like no turningback.
Yeah.
And then I just, you know,everything snowballed.
And it was very interestingbecause actually I had a tarot
card reading with RebeccaSharman as well after I'd made
the decision.
And all the cards that came outwere really like supportive
cards.
of what was going on with melike it was all like change and
(12:43):
traveling and all of thesethings so yeah it all felt very
much that everything was comingtogether at exactly the right
time and it was absolutely thebest decision the scariest
decision because I was like heyguys like all my friends are
like so guys I'm like moving outof London in two weeks and
everyone was like double whatthe fuck yeah
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
exactly not only in two weeks it's like I know we're
kind of in this pandemic thingbut I got shit to do yeah other
stuff Exactly.
You guys carry on with this.
SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Yeah, you do what you've got to do.
Leaving London, everyone waslike, well, it kind of makes
sense.
And also, I'm sure that theywere like, we've got somewhere
to stay in Cornwall now becauseit's absolutely impossible to
find anywhere to stay inCornwall.
This is
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
true.
So I guess at that point, allthe tarot cards, the frames,
everyone was really encouraging.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Absolutely.
All my family, like there wasn'tone person that was like, you've
lost your mind.
Everyone was like, yeah.
do it, go for it.
And I think ultimately, it's soeasy to talk yourself out of the
things that you want in life.
Like the ego is so present,whether we're aware of it or
whether we're not.
(13:53):
And even when we're aware of it,it's very easy to still buy
into.
But ultimately, what is theworst that's going to happen?
what's the worst that's going tohappen?
And when you start looking atwhat's the worst going to
happen, that's when you actuallyget into the real good juice of
like, well, what are my corefears?
What are the shadow beliefs thatare holding me back?
(14:14):
And that led me down anotherpath of self-inquiry of like,
okay, like what's here toexplore?
What are my fears?
I knew 100%, like it didn'treally...
matter what happened I knew thatI'd be okay throughout all the
trials and tribulations of lifetaught me anything it was that
ultimately I'm pretty adept atlanding on my feet so gosh I
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
love I just love that's interesting by the way
there's so much what is theceremonial dose of cacao
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
so ceremonial cacao if you're buying it the powdered
stuff that you buy in likeHolland and Barrett That isn't
ceremonial.
It's usually still cacao, butit's usually like roasted at
quite high temperatures, whichobviously starts to break down.
As soon as you apply heat toanything, it starts to break
down its natural chemicalcomposition.
(15:06):
Ceremonial cacao is cacao that'snot...
entirely raw because you have toroast it ever so slightly to get
the skins off.
It's harvested from the tree andthen it's like fermented and
then they roast it to take theskins off and stuff.
And then they make it into likea paste or what they call a
(15:26):
liquor.
And so it's as much in itsnatural untreated form as it
possibly can be, which keeps allof its chemical composition.
So a ceremonial dose is 42 gramsof that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Specific.
and the relevance
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
of that.
Yeah.
I don't know what, who found outthat 42 grams was the optimum.
That's quite an interestingthing to have a look into
actually.
But I guess someone or somewherealong the line, someone was
like, 42 grams is the best oneto play with.
Probably the same person thatwould like dabble with mushrooms
and stuff like that.
That's way too much.
(16:05):
Don't do that.
Someone was like, you've got tohonor the ancestors who first
tried out mushrooms becausethere was one that's like, ooh,
This one tastes of beef.
This one killed Brian.
And this one made me see God fora week.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Brilliant.
So you know which one.
Just stay away from that one.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
But yeah, so it's 42 grams and you mix it.
So you chop it very finely.
Like the process starts with,obviously because it's a plant
spirit, the process of communionand communication with it starts
from the moment you startchopping it.
I prepare mine in silence and Iallow myself to connect to the
(16:47):
energy of it and allow whateverwants to come up during that
time and be present with it.
You chop it down very finely,then mix it with about 200
milliliters, 250 of water.
Don't boil it because obviouslyyou start boiling it, you're
breaking down the chemicalcomposition of it.
(17:07):
So the water needs to be heatedand just, you know, cook it
very, Gently and slowly add abit of cayenne pepper into it
because the cayenne helps it getinto the system quicker.
Yeah.
Then once you prepare it, it'susually like a ceremonial dose.
It's usually quite thick.
It's not the easiest thing todrink.
(17:27):
You know, everyone's like, ooh,chocolate, delicious.
And you drink it and you'relike, what is this?
You know, like medicine.
I don't know if anyone's everdone any plant medicines before,
but like there have been timeswhen I've drunk ayahuasca and
there have been times when I'vedrunk ceremonial cacao and I've
been like, I can't drink this.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Oh, wow.
And What have you found thedifference to be between
ayahuasca and the cacao?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
What, taste-wise?
Yeah.
It's so...
Do you know what I find reallyfascinating?
I found a different word ratherthan interesting.
Nice.
Every time I drink ceremonialcacao, it tastes different.
Some days it will be, like,really sweet and really
palatable, and some days I can'tdrink it, and if I can't drink
it, I won't, because usuallyit's the body's way of saying,
(18:13):
''No, I don't want this today.''I think that sometimes it maybe
it also reflects the energy ofthe self or the energy of what's
going on, because sometimes, youknow, you do feel a bit sweeter
in life and sometimes maybe youfeel a bit more bitter and it's
a bit challenging and stuff.
I mean, naturally, it is reallybitter, really bitter.
(18:34):
Not like eating a hot chocolateat all.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
No, chocolate is, I want to say it's a bastardised
thing.
version of anything really it
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
is very interestingly I'm only just
really making this bizarreconnection right now but I did
I've done many many jobs in mytime but I did go for a period
where I did the PR for Lindt theSwiss chocolate brand the
chocolatiers yes what chocolatenaturally is and what we have on
(19:05):
the shelves in the supermarketare dramatically different
products 500 grams of ceremonialcacao will cost you about£50.
SPEAKER_01 (19:14):
The real stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Yeah.
And, you know, a 500 gram bar ofchocolate will cost you what?
Depending on what brand you'rebuying anywhere from like a
pound to maybe£3.50.
And the real difference is likeif you start looking into what
it's packed out with...
And the amount of sugar that'sin it, all of those things.
(19:38):
I mean, most chocolate brandsare like heavily vegetable, fat,
palm oil, those kind of things.
Also, farmers aren't always paida fair wage because it's all
done by hand.
Like the process is all done byhand.
When you look into the chocolatebar trade, There's a lot about
(20:01):
it that is highly unethical.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Highly unethical.
Incredibly dark.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Even when they try and push ethics.
I mean, it's the same.
We're not going to, I won't getonto a rant about capitalism.
We're saving that for later.
That's coming, right?
But yeah, it is highly, highlyremoved.
But then that's a lot of life ingeneral though, isn't it?
The parallel, right?
Yeah, a beautiful origin ofsomething that is based purely
(20:31):
for love and connection of theself and then we take it and
turn it into a capitalistventure, brand it and rewrap it
and sell it as fast as wepossibly can to make as much
money as we can.
And I think we did just go on acapitalist rant, sorry.
No, I
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
like the capitalist rant.
And in that process, you end upconditioning people into
believing in a certain way,removing people from their kind
of essence as well.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
Well, it's everything.
It's all about removing everyonefrom their spiritual essence.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
Before I had my awakening, I was very much
completely removed from myspiritual asset.
Like I didn't believe in spirit.
You'd see like hippies andthings like that, but I was just
like, God, tie dye, incense, notfor me.
Like, what the fuck?
(21:28):
Yeah.
I was very much like, you know,I worked for...
big corporate companies my focuswas always making money and
spending money you knowobtaining things to try and find
some idea of what happiness ismeant to be or the idea of
happiness that is sold to us oryou know work hard play hard
(21:50):
like all of these things andthen when I had my awakening I
was like oh my fucking god likehold on a second what is the
true meaning of life Whathappened?
What was
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
your awakening?
What got you to that point?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
So I was becoming more and more removed from
myself.
It was really quite interestingbecause I was becoming more and
more aware of how far I would goto remove myself from feeling
anything.
You know, like my jobs werealways super stressful and
(22:27):
consuming work.
all hours.
I wouldn't spend any time insilence.
I would always have headphoneson.
I was always reading andlistening to something at the
same time.
How do you even do that?
It's craziness.
My weekends were spent goingshopping, going out to bars and
(22:47):
restaurants, and I was partyingquite a lot.
Every morning, I would wake upand just be so full of regret.
my underlying thought was alwayslike, something's not right
here.
Something's really, really notright.
I had probably for quite a fewyears had instances of that real
impasse of like, I'm notentirely sure if I'm down with
(23:10):
life, but I don't want to bedead either.
And I would always come to, Iwould always hit this kind of
like rock bottom where thatwould be my thing.
But I never actually wanted tobe, I was never like, I got to
the point where I was like,actually, do you know what?
I'm really fucking done withthis.
Like, I don't get it.
And then obviously, from thatmoment, I would make decisions
and be like, well, let's removethe things, the things that are
(23:33):
making me the most unhappy,let's change them.
So I was always, you know,changing job, changing home.
But the reality is you takeyourself everywhere.
And the one thing that I wasn'tdoing was going like, hey,
What's really going on with you?
I was always like, it's externalcircumstances.
It's my job.
(23:54):
It's my partner.
It's that I don't weigh enough.
I'm not thin enough, or I'm notpretty enough, or I don't earn
enough money, or I don't go onenough holidays, or I don't have
enough shoes and things likethat.
So yeah, and then I got to apoint where I was like, okay,
something has to really changehere.
(24:15):
Because I'm not happy at all.
So I stopped drinking.
I stopped partying.
You know, I was doing pot yoga,juice cleanses, like all of
these things.
Even after like probably liketwo months of that behavior, I
remember laying on my yoga mat.
(24:35):
I felt so disconnected from mybody in like Savasana.
That's the point where you'remeant to feel real relaxation
and connection.
And I was just like, pah.
I'm not happy.
I don't know what's going on.
I just don't feel anything.
But then just carried on kind ofblindly being like, I guess I'll
figure it out some way, shape orform.
(24:57):
And a few months later, mygranddad was really ill in
hospital.
I saw him in a really bad stateand it really triggered me.
I hadn't been drinking.
And then two nights later, Iwent out and got absolutely
hammered.
Absolutely.
Like one of my friends was like,she was like, I don't think I've
(25:19):
ever seen you that drunk.
Because normally I'm quite an incontrol person.
But I was just like, I justwanted oblivion.
I just wanted to feel nothing.
And I was just like, God, I justdon't know what to do.
What is really going on here?
And one of my friends was like,oh, go and see, why don't you go
and see my energy healer?
(25:39):
And I was like, oh, that's suchbollocks.
I was like, I don't think that'sfor me.
And, you know, like I hadabsolutely no belief in anything
apart from science, whateverthat means, the version of
science that is completelyremoved from real scientific
teaching or spirituality, whichis a lot of what science is
(26:01):
based on.
But anyway, she was like, you'vegot nothing to lose.
And I was like, actually, it's areally good point.
So a couple of days before I hadmy healing, I was like, maybe I
should just cancel it and book amassage instead.
It's like really trying to talkmyself out of it.
I was like, I don't want to dothis.
It seems like a real waste ofmoney.
But anyway, I went and Josie,the beautiful angel who is my
(26:26):
healer, I met her.
And for the first time, like Itold her things that I told no
one.
I mean, I'd done a bit oftherapy.
here and there and actuallybefore this point I just got a
new therapist as well because Iwas like you need to talk to
someone about this stuff youknow I had a really open honest
conversation with her about meand like she asked me quite a
(26:47):
lot of stuff about my past andanyway I had this healing and
all of a sudden I felt like Iwas having a panic attack this
weight was just pushing down onmy chest like pushing and
pushing and pushing down on mychest and And I went through a
phase of having panic attacksand stuff.
And I was like, fuck, I'm havinganother panic attack.
(27:09):
Sorry, I swear quite a lot.
And she was like, just let go.
Just let go of that.
And I was like, okay.
So all of a sudden, this rush ofenergy just flew up my body and
came out of my mouth.
And I was animalistic, wailing,crying to the point where I
(27:29):
started laughing so much becauseI was like whose fucking mouth
is that coming out of like isthat coming out of me and I had
a really really big cry and shewas just like that's years old
and I was like yeah that and itwas really weird because the
energy felt old like it didn'tfeel like do you know when you
cry about something and ithappens and it's immediate and
(27:51):
you understand what this I hadno explanation for apart from
the fact that it was in me andit had just come out anyway so I
left there and I was like oh Ifelt like obviously a bit
knackered but quite light
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
totally released
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
and then a couple of days later I got really ill
couldn't get out of bed I wasvomiting all the time I had
really bad diarrhea and sorry ifthis is too much for anyone but
my body was basically purgingall of this toxicity that I've
been holding on And I couldn'tdo anything.
(28:27):
Like I couldn't watch TV.
I couldn't listen to anything.
I couldn't talk to anyone.
And so I was just forced to bein bed that whole time.
And then all of a sudden, myinner voice came back to me.
It was like, hey, Nicola.
And I was like...
Okay, I've gone full tilt mentalnow.
And it's like, so we're gonnahave a bit of a chat.
And I was like, okay, I'm justgonna tell you some of the
(28:51):
reasons why you do the thingsyou do.
And why you've been living yourlife the way that you have.
And I was like, okay.
And literally, I had thisinternal dialogue with myself.
And it was all like, all aboutbasically that I'd been holding
on to a lot of stuff from mychildhood.
Yeah.
(29:12):
For so many years, my parentsdidn't have the happiest
relationship.
I mean, obviously, I'm not goingto go into the full story of it
because it's not just my storyto tell.
And I want to be respectful ofthat.
But I guess my part in it and myexperience was that, you know, I
had parents who eventually weremarried for 16 years and
(29:32):
divorced when I was like 15, 16.
And it wasn't easy at all.
But at the time, I'd neverreally dealt with it because you
don't.
Everyone's just trying to cope.
Everyone's just trying to get onwith it.
And I sort of started pullingthings out of Pandora's box and
being like, okay, I can actuallysee why I make all of these
decisions, why I've gone downthis path and stuff.
(29:55):
So it was really interesting.
And I went to see my therapisttwo weeks later and I was like,
so something really weird hashappened.
And I was like, I think I've hada bit of a spiritual awakening.
And I kind of realized why I doall of these things and why I've
been unhappy and why I've beentrying to numb myself for so
many years.
Because it's like this, this,this, this.
And she was like, draw on thefloor oh my god she's like yes
(30:17):
yes of course yeah So and that'swhat started me off on this
path.
And I went back and I was havingmore healings.
And I was obviously seeing mytherapist.
So going into a very deep lineof inquiry.
Then I had this like a monthlater, I was walking down the
(30:40):
street home from work.
And I just remembered feeling soalone.
overwhelmingly happy, like lightfor the first time in years,
connected with myself.
And then I had this likerealization that I wanted to
(31:00):
really help others discoverthemselves and heal.
Then I went and did my energyattunements as well.
And that in itself ends upunearthing a lot more of
everything that you do when youtread the path of healing
facilitator or maybe it's justme maybe other people do realize
(31:22):
but what you don't realize isthat you actually spend your
whole entire life doing work on
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
yourself no
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
but you're right and you become your biggest piece of
work at your guide and yourteacher as well absolutely but
that's what life should be likeI had this conversation with a
client the other day the biggestproject the most important
project anyone will ever work onin their entire life is
themselves We all work hard.
The more you focus on yourself,the happier you'll become.
(31:52):
Even though sometimes you'll belike, okay, this is quite hard
to look at.
And there are parts of me that Idon't want to acknowledge or I'm
not ready to acknowledge andstuff.
But ultimately, the more youshine light on the darkness, the
lighter you become.
And the easier life becomes andthe more, you know, I...
(32:14):
realized that I'd become veryclosed off to people as well.
Even though I had lots offriends and I was very social,
the reality was I didn't reallylet anyone close to me.
And the more you work onyourself and the more you open
up to yourself, the more youopen up to everyone and the more
easier it is to relate to peopleas well on a real human level
(32:38):
rather than a superficial level.
the language that we use like ohhow are you I'm fine yeah the f
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
word
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
I'm fine I'm
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
busy you know while you're talking that whole thing
so I guess my moment was when Ialmost kind of compare it to you
know that moment when those old90s tv shows when you go in to
have a makeover and they put youin that mirrored box it's like
(33:07):
look at yourself in yourunderwear and it's like Really
torturous, right?
That is kind of how I almostlike have had to deal with my
darkness to deal with my demons.
And they ain't pretty, they arenot nice.
But actually, being in aconfined space with them, just
me and my demons is actuallywhere it's at.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
it's so interesting isn't it because we label things
as good and label things as badand lame like like the demons
are like the bad parts of uslike oh I've got my demons yeah
and the thing is the demons arethere because they're the one
the parts of us that are cryingout to be loved are crying out
to be seen certainly for me likefor a really long time I was
(33:51):
just like This needs to beimproved.
This needs to be improved.
This needs to be improved.
And actually, it was nothingneeded to be improved.
It's just that I needed to lovemyself and accept myself more.
With no improvement necessary,just knowing that whatever the
demons are, are there becauseit's a part of us that is crying
(34:11):
out for something.
Even now, I'm always like, if Ihave demons or things like that,
really ahead, I'm just like,come hang out with me.
Yeah.
Come be with me.
Let's have a cup of tea.
Yeah, I'm not going to banishyou or tell you that you should
be something else or you have tobe a specific way to be lovable.
You're fine absolutely as youare.
And I think that as soon as yourealize that you find that real
(34:35):
like radical self-acceptance ofthe parts of you you don't like,
the easier that life becomesbecause that part of you doesn't
need to play up for attention.
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
That's so true.
Yeah.
Totally.
So I'm going to not say, oh,that's interesting.
I agree and all that.
But I do.
Totally.
I want to ask you now about whatis your vision now that you're
in Cornwall and there's all thisstuff happening?
Because I want to ask also, areyou actually running?
(35:04):
cacao ceremonies over there areyou going to start because I
want to know so when I'm inCornwall I know where to go oh
my
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
god you're so more than welcome so I was doing a
bit of cacao ceremonies onlineand then I realized that I had
to do some more work on myselfbefore I was holding space for
other people so I stopped butactually I'm holding a private
ceremony for two people onMonday and then her and I are
(35:36):
going to hold a holistic yogacacao ceremony workshop
together.
Amazing.
And will you send me details?
I will send you details, yes.
It'll be some point in August,but...
The plan has been to find aspace to hold regular ceremonies
out of because I'm also in themiddle of doing a sound healing
(35:57):
diploma.
So I'm very much into shamanicdrums and crystal bowls and
gongs.
But As of yet, that space hasn'tpresented itself to me.
So, you know, everything alwaysworks out in the right time.
You have to trust in theprocess, even when it's not
going your way.
But I'm just going to startdoing some ceremonies here and
(36:20):
there and just see what happens.
I think ultimately, I am one ofthese people who I find
everything fascinating.
You know, like I really lovelearning.
One of my biggest joys isactually learning about things.
And I find healing modalitiesabsolutely fascinating.
(36:43):
When I did my Reikiachievements, I was never like I
wanted to be a full time healer.
And when I did my coaching, Iwas like, I never foresee myself
as being a full time coach forthe rest of my life.
for me I guess and this probablycomes on to my bigger vision is
that ultimately the reason thatI've moved here was because
during a cacao ceremony I had avision of me opening an
(37:08):
immersive healing center herewhich is I kind of like coin it
like the center parks of healingbut I've never been to Centre
Park, so I'm not going to sayanything untoward about Centre
Park.
I'm sure it's great.
I have no idea.
But, you know, like somewherewhere it's like a nice, big,
open facility for adults to comeand rediscover who they are
(37:32):
through access to healing,different healing modalities,
but also, you know, going backto school in a way, like having
art classes, pottery classes,music classes.
Like I want to have...
modern choir, dance classes.
I want to have like the land.
(37:52):
So it's like permaculture.
And so everything that comes offthe grounds is used in the
kitchen.
Also have it so it's a socialenterprise.
So there's a real issue here inCornwall.
Lots of cafes and like lots ofrestaurants are basically
really, really short staffedbecause it's The housing market
(38:14):
here has rocketed so much thatpeople can't afford to buy or
rent.
People who do jobs that aretraditionally minimum wage or a
little bit higher can't actuallyafford to live in the area.
I guess unless you live withyour parents.
So what I believe is that ifyou're going to open a venture
(38:38):
somewhere, then you have aresponsibility to look after
those around you.
You know, how do you give jobsto the local?
How do you create jobs for localpeople, even when people aren't
necessarily skilled in that way,but doing things like giving
grants to people if they want toretrain to do something else and
having wages that are livingwage?
(39:01):
not minimum wage and I know it'snot easy for everyone and I know
it sounds very idealistic butyou know the reality is that it
all comes from how much profityou're willing to take away and
for me I've always wanted abusiness that is primarily about
giving back in some way likehelp it I I met this amazing
(39:22):
woman once and she was soinspiring and her name's Cressy
Westling fundamentally what shedoes is she's like a problem
solver.
And I guess coming from aproducing background is that I
am very naturally a problemsolver.
And so I think creatingsomething is amazing, but
(39:45):
creating based on what problemis it solving is really
important.
And with the retreat facility, Ifeel like It helps twofold,
which is it helps peoplerediscover their essence and
bring them back to their spiritand how we are, how by nature we
(40:05):
are community-based.
You know, back in the old days,everyone worked together.
You lived in communities whereyou all helped each other build
your houses.
You all looked after eachother's kids.
You all cooked and everyone atecommunally.
And that's what it should be,like primarily looking after
each other should be a joy.
(40:26):
And so I really want to helpadults rediscover their inner
essence, also create jobs forlocal people, and also create
social housing as well.
Because I think that it's one ofthose things where building
things is all well and good andgreat.
(40:48):
But when things are being builtto just be sold for maximum
profit to the highest bidder.
It's just perpetrating a problemthat becomes increasingly out of
control when there is no marketintervention at all.
And that's exactly what'shappening here in Cornwall.
The market has increased somuch.
It's now the most popular placeto buy in the country.
(41:10):
But if you look at itsocioeconomically, it's one of
the poorest parts of thecountry.
SPEAKER_01 (41:16):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
just
SPEAKER_01 (41:18):
astonishing.
I just wanna ask you a questionin terms of the immersive
healing experience.
Where do I sign up?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
That's where it's at.
Well, I mean, I guess I don't...
I mean, no
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
pressure.
I mean, are you thinking thisyear or
SPEAKER_00 (41:35):
when?
I have so many notebooks aroundthis place where I've done
outlines of exactly what I want,what I want to offer to people.
And I guess what's kind of niceis the more I delve into the
healing arts...
the more I discover things thatI know really work and things
(41:58):
that work in tandem and stufflike that.
So for me, it seems very naturalto be like, I understand so many
different things about so manydifferent things that to pull it
all together in one place.
So people could come and book infor a weekend.
People could come and book infor a month.
Even to the point where I wasthinking the other day that
actually people could come andbook in If you created a, I
(42:22):
always joke and say like, I wantto create a commune, but
actually the reality is that tome, it doesn't really feel like
much of a joke anymore.
To me, it feels like somethingthat actually would be a really
beautiful venture.
And maybe it's a case of,there's this amazing guy.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim.
(42:43):
I think his name, Michael B.
Singer, and he wrote TheSurrender Experiment.
Have you read it?
No,
SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
but tell me more.
SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
He, I'm obviously going to very much paraphrase
this and probably get somethings wrong, but he basically,
like many years ago, I thinkhe's in his 60s now, when he was
around about 19, 20-ish, hebecame very aware of his ego,
the voice inside of the head.
And he was like, what is thisvoice inside the head?
(43:11):
Where does it come from?
What's its function?
And he was doing, I think he waslike studying economics or
something at quite a prestigiousuniversity in the States.
I might be getting this wrong,but basically he dropped out and
he decided that he just wantedto meditate.
He felt like he found meditationand he realized that meditation
(43:33):
was really stilling and calmingthe mind and calming the ego.
And he was just like, not reallyup for life.
I want to get camper van, go offto the woods and meditate.
And so he did.
And he went to, I think it waslike Mexico.
He just found this like filledsomewhere there was no one
around and these two guys cameacross him and like his ego was
(43:57):
like who are these guys I justwant to be by myself I don't
want it and anyway these twoguys like talking to him and
they offered him one of theirhorses and he went for like this
amazing ride on this horse andhe kind of realized that if he
bought into his ego and said nohe would have missed that
incredible soul life-affirmingexperience that he had with that
horse being completely free andcompletely one with another
(44:21):
creature and so he was like sowhat happens if you did exactly
the opposite of your ego and sohe came back to the states and
basically but he still wanted tobe a bit of a nomad and a loner
so he ended up buying a piece ofland with nothing on it to just
live on by himself.
And he just found that peoplekept coming and finding him and
(44:44):
being like, what are you doinghere?
Like, oh, can I build upsomething on this land?
And he learned to build his homethat he had on it.
He taught himself with a coupleof friends.
They taught themselveselectrical wiring and plumbing
and all of these things.
And then a couple saw the houseoff the road and they came and
found him.
They're like, will you build...
our house.
(45:05):
And he was like, I'm not atrained builder.
I did this with my mates.
And they were like, we don'tcare.
And so he ended up having abuilding firm that built houses
just by chance of saying yes towhen things came along and he
wanted to say no, he said yes.
So he then, I can't rememberwhat it's called now, but
basically his piece of land,more, he was doing like Sunday,
(45:26):
we were doing like Sundayservice, but it was like
spiritual based, so likemeditation, getting in touch
with the self.
And he just found that like moreand more people were coming.
They were building more housesand like space on it.
And it basically turned intothis spiritual commune.
And there's another veryelaborate part of the book where
basically he became amultimillionaire as well,
(45:47):
because he was one of the firstdesigners of a software database
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
wow
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
he designed this huge medical database in the
states the first medicaldatabase that keeps all medical
records and he ended up becominga multi-millionaire through it
and then also ended up beinginvestigated by the FBI because
one of his team was doing likefraud loads of fraudulent
activity with the company andstuff so it goes I mean
(46:14):
obviously goes on to lots ofdifferent like talking about his
life and how sometimes you haveto just things happen out of
your control and you're like, Ijust have to trust that
everything's going to be okay.
And so it's a great, anyone isinterested, it's called The
Surrender Experiment.
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
The Surrender Experiment.
I have made a note of that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
It's a very good book and very interesting.
And I think for me, the thingthat interests me the most is
like having that space to Iguess in a way it is like being
a bit of like a shaman, holdingthe community together, having
the community's interest as thehighest good collectively.
And, you know, how do peoplecome together?
(46:54):
How do they work together?
How do we look after each other?
How do we nurture each other?
How do we nourish each other?
For me, those are the mostimportant questions that
humanity face right now,because...
The biggest crisis that we haveis the complete lack of
spiritual connection toourselves as a whole.
(47:16):
Because I do truly believe themore that you're connected to
yourself, the more you'reconnected to nature.
Oh, agreed.
Yeah.
The oneness of everything.
There is no separation at all.
We're all just reflections ofeach other.
The good and what is labeled thegood, what is labeled the bad.
The good, the bad, whatever thatis.
(47:36):
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (47:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
And the more we see that and we choose to come
together rather than beseparate, the better life will
become.
But life is designed to bedivisive.
And the more divided we are, theeasily controlled we are.
And that was like the beginningof last year, I had another
really big awakening to thereality of this system that we
(48:01):
live in, in this country andglobally.
SPEAKER_01 (48:04):
whenever I'm talking to my husband who now listens to
me when I talk to him aboutstuff like this I say to him
like I get it it's like thematrix it is the matrix you
haven't seen that yet have you?
No
SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
I haven't I think when you and I spoke last time I
just watched it I mean I'm notsurprised the first time I
watched it I think like aboyfriend of mine at the time
made me watch it and I was likeoh God, I can't be bothered with
this.
I don't get it.
And then I was like, I'm goingto watch The Matrix and see what
everyone's talking about.
And I started watching it and Iwas just like that blown brain
(48:40):
emoji.
Like, oh my God.
This film actually goes intosome really deep philosophical
questions about what is reality?
What is life really?
And I honestly think thatreality is whatever you choose
it to be.
I don't think it's ever beenmore apparent that two people
(49:02):
can coexist in differentrealities.
SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
Oh, so true.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
And because your reality is whatever your head is
telling you is your reality.
A couple of years ago, I did anayahuasca retreat.
It was the most eye-opening andunexpected.
I mean, I knew it was going tobe a big deal because my ego was
hugely resistant to it.
(49:26):
But So much of the journeys thatI experienced were all about
what is reality and how much youcreate reality as well and how
you can decide what your realityis.
But in any given moment, you candecide your reality is something
different.
It's all about perspective.
Wow.
(49:46):
And I came back and I was quitea broken human being.
Okay.
Basically, I've realized thateverything is meaningless and
nothing is real how do I then goand fit back into my old like
I'm back on Monday morning I goback to work and sit at my desk
and like just get on like I'mexactly the same person where I
(50:08):
feel like the old me just likeshattered and fell apart yeah
and I'm like well what is lifewhat is reality what are what
are all of these things and butthat is like
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
I don't Because I love the fact that you're
constantly asking questions.
You know, that inquiry is alwaysthere, that curiosity, that
inquisitiveness.
But at that point, for me, thebiggest thing that comes up is
I'm here to play.
I'm here to play.
And what happened for you atthat point?
SPEAKER_00 (50:39):
Well, I think, do you know what?
It's interesting.
I hope someone's keeping a tallyof how many times we say it's
interesting on this podcast.
Because I...
I actually think one of mybiggest challenges is that
sometimes I get so swept up inself-inquiry.
I always jokingly say that I'mtwo steps away from an
(51:02):
existential crisis.
at any given time, always.
Because I always like, what isthe meaning?
And why does this happen?
And blah, blah, blah.
But like, if this exists, thenwhy does this exist?
And how can I do this, but stilldo that and get so wrapped up in
trying to like, think my waythrough and out the other side
(51:26):
of something that actually, Iwould forget that the reality is
that you foremost you came herefor a human experience whatever
that looks like I don't knowit's an individual expression of
the self but one of my bigthings is on my to-do list or
(51:47):
like goals for the month isalways like have more fun learn
to play learn to enjoy thingsbut it's very challenging isn't
it because like kids when I wasa child I was so lucky because
my parents gave me so much toplay with I had toys I had
creative toys I had recordsmusic and creativity and fun and
(52:12):
I was very indulged and I wasvery lucky but at some point I
everything becomes reallyserious.
And I personally think it'sprobably when you start, when
you go into senior school andthe primary conditioning really
starts and really kicks in, whenwe're all being molded to learn
the same things, wear the sameclothes, only think the way that
(52:37):
we're told we're allowed tothink, not to question any, how
dare you question anyone?
How dare you question authority?
all of those things about beingwrangled to be the same mind, to
think the same way, to behavethe same way, to be docile is
appalling.
And then all of a sudden, it'stesting becomes the thing,
(53:00):
performance, you're measured byhow good your grades are, how
well behaved you are, the lengthyou wear your skirt, everything
becomes performance monitored.
And basically, we set childrenup to learn that you live in a
world that is your performanceis monitored constantly.
And then you go out, you mightgo to university and experience
(53:22):
exactly the same thing again,for a really prolonged period of
time, which is a really longtime of conditioning of how to
behave, then you go out into thework world and you're told that
you have to perform.
You have to have a job to be afunctioning member of society.
You have to earn money becauseyou need to save up to buy a
(53:43):
home, to get into a hugelyinflated mortgage that you're
going to spend the next 25 yearsof your life paying to get a
car, have a family, all of thesethings.
Everything is about feeding thesystem of capitalism and
consumerism.
That is what life is.
(54:04):
Unless you are taught to see adifferent way.
But for the majority of us,We're all taught to view life
that way.
I mean, like no one ever, Idon't, I mean, I studied
economics at A-level.
No, I really paid that muchattention.
I just wanted to go on the twoschool trips that they had to
like Paris and to Belgium.
That's an aside.
(54:25):
But no one actually talks to youlike for a really good reason,
right?
You're not taught what emotionalintelligence is.
Oh, of course not.
Absolutely not.
The most fundamental part ofbeing human you're not taught
about.
SPEAKER_01 (54:39):
But this is what you do now as a life coach.
We're here because we are notonly learning and picking
ourselves up, but we're alsohelping people who have been
hoodwinked by the system
SPEAKER_00 (54:51):
And
SPEAKER_01 (54:52):
turn into circus monkeys, basically.
Perform, do this, do that.
And we set our children up tofail because we've been set up
to fail.
SPEAKER_00 (55:02):
Oh, I mean, absolutely.
I remember when I first...
I actually first decided Iwanted to be a life coach
probably about six or sevenyears ago.
I had, at one point, had aproper nervous breakdown.
I had a whole weekend where...
I couldn't get out of bedbecause I was crying so much
(55:23):
because I was just like, I'm sofundamentally unhappy.
And on paper, I worked at a goodcompany in a creative job that
lots of people would have giventheir right arm to have.
I had a boyfriend and I hadgreat friends and I had a social
(55:44):
life and I had my own home.
All of these things seemingly,but I was fundamentally
miserable.
I somehow ended up reading thisbook.
article about this woman who hadbecome so burnt out through
stress that her back completelywent and she ended up spending
six months in bed because shecouldn't move and that's what
(56:06):
induced her spiritual awakeningand then she became a life coach
and I remembered reading thatand I was like oh my fucking god
that's what I want to do I wantto help people but I obviously
realized that they were likethat's what you're going to do
but you really need to sort yourshit out first before you do any
of this and I was like okay fineI obviously didn't realize that
at the time but I remembersaying to my mom I was like I
(56:28):
really want to be a life coachand she was like that's a
ridiculous job why can't peoplejust suck it up and get on with
it?
I mean, bless her.
To be fair, she's spent a lot ofher life sucking stuff up and
getting on with it in not theeasiest of circumstances.
So, you know, understandablereaction.
But it's such a common reaction.
Like when people are like, oh,I've got a life coach or I'm
(56:49):
going to be a life coach.
I think so many people thinkthat it's so indulgent.
Like, you know, why can't youjust be happy with what you've
got?
The reality is that, as you say,we've been hoodwinked.
This is not how life is meant tobe.
There's no way that your higherintelligence decided to come
(57:09):
here to get a job, pay taxes, ifyou're lucky, have enough money
to go on holidays, maybe acouple of times a year, eat junk
food, drink alcohol, all ofthese things that we're so
conditioned to do that justremove us further and further
away from the truth of who weare.
It's actual insanity.
(57:31):
And then I think once you'veseen that that's how the world
is structured, you can't everunsee that.
For me, my passion is abouthelping people rediscover
themselves, rediscovering theirpower.
Because for a really long time,and there are still times when I
talk myself out of doing thingsbecause the usual things like
(57:51):
security, home, money and stuff,but then I'm like, we all know
that none of this is real it'sjust all a construct so I'm
usually always working with atleast two people at a time when
I'm going through changes orwhen I want to make changes in
my life and stuff like thatbecause I understand that you
know my conditioning runs reallydeep
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
yeah I totally hear what you're saying
SPEAKER_00 (58:15):
I need someone to call me out on my bullshit Yes.
And be like, are you buying intoa story of how you think life is
rather than the reality?
Which is the reality is you canactually do anything you set
your mind to.
You've just got to believe inyourself.
And if you don't believe inyourself, go find someone who
does and make yourselfaccountable to them.
(58:35):
Do
SPEAKER_01 (58:37):
you have a question for the listeners before you go?
SPEAKER_00 (58:43):
Yeah.
Do I have a question for thelisteners?
Do you know what?
I think I'm going to start withthe question that you asked me.
Who are you?
I guess it's something that Itouched on very briefly, but one
of the things that I've realizedis like, who are you?
Who are you?
What are you made up of?
If you listed all of yourpersonality traits, the things
(59:08):
you think you are, the storiesof your life, Who told you
that's how you are?
How did you come to think thatthat is how life is for you?
And what happens if you droppedall of the personality, all of
the constructs of who you thinkyou are?
Who are you?
(59:29):
So I guess that's the question.
If you dropped all of theconstructs of your personality
and who you think you are, Whoare you?
I hope you enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_01 (59:41):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of
eternal paradigm.
Join me next time.
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Together, we're uncovering humanexperience by exploring
physical, mental, emotional, andspiritual stories.
With me, your host, Ermi Ravel.
Hi, welcome to this episode ofEternal Paradigm.
I hope you're enjoying yourjourney to find you.
(00:22):
Before I head into this week'sepisode, I just wanted to share
with you some incrediblefeedback that I've had over the
last week.
Excuse me.
Just generally, really, aboutRohit's episode last week, or
Rohit, I should say, seeing as Iam on a mission to pronounce our
(00:43):
names correctly as they shouldbe.
It was actually reallyinteresting to hear.
So many of you growing up havehad experiences of feeling
different, of being theoutsider, and some because of
your visible differences thatother people have really felt
the need to point out, andothers who have also felt
(01:08):
different for their own reasons.
And, you know, being differentor feeling different We all feel
that, and that's what makes usthe same.
So my guide, my mentor, myhypnotherapy teacher, my RTT
teacher, Marissa Peer, alwayssays this, and there's so much
value in it.
(01:28):
Being different is somethingthat we all have in common.
Being different is actually whatmakes us all the same.
That's why this episode isactually such an interesting
conversation with thisincredible soul.
In the Creativity Series, youmust remember, I spoke to Lucy,
Lucy the artist, and she'sincredible.
(01:49):
If you haven't heard thatepisode, head on back to the
Creativity Series, because wehad such a laugh, such a laugh
recording that episode.
Lucy's introduced me to Nicola,and Nicola's my guest for this
week.
Before you go on to listen tothis really interesting,
fascinating conversation wherewe both say interesting and
(02:12):
fascinating a lot, becausethat's apparently like a
prerequisite of being someone,A, who's curious, B, who's
inquisitive, and C, who's kindof has a level of conscious
awareness, let's say.
Remember, Eternal ParadigmPodcast is available on
Instagram.
We've got a lovely communitythere, so come and join us.
(02:34):
Facebook, we have the Facebookpage where every week you'll get
an update with a new episode.
We've got the Facebook group,which we are currently at 30
people in the group.
And, you know, you can join thegroup because it's an open
group.
You can post questions.
You can share information.
As long as I approve of it, it'sall good.
(02:55):
As long as it's decent andrespectful.
So what else have we gothappening?
I mentioned a couple of episodesago that I'm in the process of
putting together the inner childexploration.
I have more details about thatcoming up over the next two
weeks.
And I'm really excited to sharethat with you.
However, for this episode, I amsuperbly excited to share my
(03:21):
conversation with Nicola Melly.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
It's really interesting that who are you is
such a big question and it'ssomething that I think about
quite a lot and I don't know ifanyone else or you feel the same
way, but who are you?
So often I think we go tointroduce ourselves by what
defines us the most, which is myjob.
(03:47):
And I don't know if you feel thesame about that.
But I guess ultimately, who amI?
I'm an imperfect human justtrying to figure this life out.
And subsequently, that has ledme down the path of helping
others do the same.
So I spend my time being a lifecoach.
I'm a trained cacao facilitator.
(04:10):
I'm also an attuned energyhealer, as well as a photography
producer.
And love island addict.
SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
What can I say to that?
Wow.
I just love it.
There's so much.
Cacao ceremony facilitator.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Yes.
So interestingly, I realizedthat I actually didn't even say
my name, but my name is Nicola,if anyone's interested.
UNKNOWN (04:38):
I love this.
SPEAKER_00 (04:39):
I start with my job, what I do.
SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
But that's always a good place to start.
So this is where we're going tokind of rewind.
Nicola, welcome to EternalParadise.
Thank you so much.
Such a pleasure.
I love, I love, love.
Everything's all about love.
Just for the heads up, I sayamazing, interesting.
That's interesting a lot.
(05:04):
And that really irritates me.
So if you're irritated by it,please tell me to shut up.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Well, actually, I'm going to start printing a line
of spiritual based t-shirts atsome point.
And the first one's going to be,I've actually screen printed one
that said, isn't thatinteresting?
UNKNOWN (05:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
the most uttered as soon as you become very
conscious of the language thatyou use isn't that interesting
oh that's so interesting is themost uttered if I had a pound
for every time I heard thatphrase during my conversations
or my friends I'd be pretty rich
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
you and me both would be minted right so apart
from the kind of use of languagewhen you ascend into different
levels of consciousness.
Tell me about well the cacaoceremonies because actually I'm
going to ask you questions aboutso much because just in that I
want to say little but big introI could just sit here for hours.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
So I found ceremonial cacao A few years
ago, after I had my spiritualawakening, which was about four
years ago, I went to a soundlike a gong bath, which was
being held with ceremonialcacao.
And it was with a woman whosename I can't remember, but she
(06:27):
was from South America, whereobviously cacao originates or
one of the places that cacaooriginates from.
It was in a studio in London.
I'd read a little bit aboutcacao and how it was good for
basically doing deep innerjourneying work.
So it's not psychedelic, but itis psychoactive.
(06:48):
So it puts you in the chemicalcomposition of it in its rawest
form, even though it's notstrictly completely raw, means
that basically relaxes the softmuscle tissue and dilates your
blood vessels as well.
So it puts you in a veryphysically relaxed state, but
(07:09):
then it also increases theproduction of dopamine and
serotonin in the brain, as wellas then inducing a blocker,
which stops those two thingsdeteriorating.
So it puts you in an elevatedlove state.
in the brain and so it's usedfor spiritual work internal work
(07:35):
because it puts you in a greatrelaxed yet alert state for you
know going deep and journeyingwith the self so I went to a
ceremony and for many reasons Iwas hugely disappointed because
the studio I did it in washaving a like 90s rave drum and
bass dance class in the studionext door so obviously you know
(08:00):
it's very hard to really relaxYeah.
(08:25):
So I was cold and I wasirritated.
I was just like verydisappointed and then didn't
really get anything out of it atall.
And then a few or a couple ofyears later, I kind of got into,
there's a woman called RebeccaSharman.
I don't know if you've heard ofher.
She has ritual cacao.
(08:46):
I started doing her sporadicsort of ceremonies here and
there.
But during the first lockdown,So last year, I did a three-week
challenge where I starteddrinking cacao every morning, a
half a dose rather than a fullceremonial dose, and sort of
like went on a bit of a journeyof how it was affecting me, what
(09:09):
was going on.
Was it increasing my awareness?
Was it increasing my happiness?
I should also say that thespirit cacao is a plant
medicine.
So it has a very rich history.
It has quite dark history aswell with like the Mayans and
the Aztecs.
They used to use it for a ritualsacrifice and also before they
went into battle so it's quiteyeah wow has a very very rich
(09:33):
history which we won't go intohere but obviously if people
want to look read about it Ihighly recommend it's quite
fascinating so yeah I went on abit of a journey with it myself
it expands the energy of theheart the spirit of the plant
works with the heart energy andI do have quite challenging and
interesting heart energyblockage kind of things that is
(09:57):
something that I work on quite alot.
So you're saying all of thiswith a smile.
That's what I love.
It's like, I
SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
have this challenging energy.
Very,
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
very aware of myself.
Yeah.
And I know, yes, I know what'sgoing on.
Yeah.
So I started drinking it and Ijust noticed that obviously
everything was very trying atthat point in time, being
self-employed and, you know,being, I lived by myself.
So being self, solely relying onyourself during a pandemic when
(10:30):
everything is going a bit nuts.
So I was drinking cacao and Iactually noticed that I was a
lot more open.
Also, my level of self-inquirywas really increasing.
And then I sat a cacao ceremonywhere you drink, well, you don't
have to, but I drank a fullceremonial dose of and had a
(10:52):
really beautiful journey.
And I don't really remember muchfrom it, but I woke up the next
morning and my first thoughtwas, it's time to move to
Cornwall, which is where I amcurrently.
Yes.
I'd been thinking about it foryears, but with the usual, very
socially conditioned head on, mylife was in London, my friends
(11:15):
were in London, my job andsecurity and home were in
London.
So I kind of ignored that heartcalling that was like I want a
new adventure and I was verymuch like no head like practical
blah blah blah but it woke upand I was just like my life in
London is done now like it'stime for something different and
(11:36):
it was really interestingbecause normally I would find a
way to talk myself out of it ohpractical things you know
pandemic times work money blahblah blah but I was like do we
really want to do this and myheart was like yes and yes yes
yes and I was like can we dothis and it was so interesting
because my ego was really verynon-present at that point like
(11:59):
it was like my ego was likeactually I'm kind of into this
idea as well and so we startedlooking we me and my ego
together started looking yeah myego yes I feel like there's like
a song in there somewhere Butyeah, so I started looking for
homes, started getting reallyexcited.
And I just handed my notice inon my flat straight away.
(12:21):
So there was like no turningback.
Yeah.
And then I just, you know,everything snowballed.
And it was very interestingbecause actually I had a tarot
card reading with RebeccaSharman as well after I'd made
the decision.
And all the cards that came outwere really like supportive
cards.
of what was going on with melike it was all like change and
(12:43):
traveling and all of thesethings so yeah it all felt very
much that everything was comingtogether at exactly the right
time and it was absolutely thebest decision the scariest
decision because I was like heyguys like all my friends are
like so guys I'm like moving outof London in two weeks and
everyone was like double whatthe fuck yeah
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
exactly not only in two weeks it's like I know we're
kind of in this pandemic thingbut I got shit to do yeah other
stuff Exactly.
You guys carry on with this.
SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Yeah, you do what you've got to do.
Leaving London, everyone waslike, well, it kind of makes
sense.
And also, I'm sure that theywere like, we've got somewhere
to stay in Cornwall now becauseit's absolutely impossible to
find anywhere to stay inCornwall.
This is
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
true.
So I guess at that point, allthe tarot cards, the frames,
everyone was really encouraging.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Absolutely.
All my family, like there wasn'tone person that was like, you've
lost your mind.
Everyone was like, yeah.
do it, go for it.
And I think ultimately, it's soeasy to talk yourself out of the
things that you want in life.
Like the ego is so present,whether we're aware of it or
whether we're not.
(13:53):
And even when we're aware of it,it's very easy to still buy
into.
But ultimately, what is theworst that's going to happen?
what's the worst that's going tohappen?
And when you start looking atwhat's the worst going to
happen, that's when you actuallyget into the real good juice of
like, well, what are my corefears?
What are the shadow beliefs thatare holding me back?
(14:14):
And that led me down anotherpath of self-inquiry of like,
okay, like what's here toexplore?
What are my fears?
I knew 100%, like it didn'treally...
matter what happened I knew thatI'd be okay throughout all the
trials and tribulations of lifetaught me anything it was that
ultimately I'm pretty adept atlanding on my feet so gosh I
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
love I just love that's interesting by the way
there's so much what is theceremonial dose of cacao
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
so ceremonial cacao if you're buying it the powdered
stuff that you buy in likeHolland and Barrett That isn't
ceremonial.
It's usually still cacao, butit's usually like roasted at
quite high temperatures, whichobviously starts to break down.
As soon as you apply heat toanything, it starts to break
down its natural chemicalcomposition.
(15:06):
Ceremonial cacao is cacao that'snot...
entirely raw because you have toroast it ever so slightly to get
the skins off.
It's harvested from the tree andthen it's like fermented and
then they roast it to take theskins off and stuff.
And then they make it into likea paste or what they call a
(15:26):
liquor.
And so it's as much in itsnatural untreated form as it
possibly can be, which keeps allof its chemical composition.
So a ceremonial dose is 42 gramsof that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Specific.
and the relevance
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
of that.
Yeah.
I don't know what, who found outthat 42 grams was the optimum.
That's quite an interestingthing to have a look into
actually.
But I guess someone or somewherealong the line, someone was
like, 42 grams is the best oneto play with.
Probably the same person thatwould like dabble with mushrooms
and stuff like that.
That's way too much.
(16:05):
Don't do that.
Someone was like, you've got tohonor the ancestors who first
tried out mushrooms becausethere was one that's like, ooh,
This one tastes of beef.
This one killed Brian.
And this one made me see God fora week.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Brilliant.
So you know which one.
Just stay away from that one.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
But yeah, so it's 42 grams and you mix it.
So you chop it very finely.
Like the process starts with,obviously because it's a plant
spirit, the process of communionand communication with it starts
from the moment you startchopping it.
I prepare mine in silence and Iallow myself to connect to the
(16:47):
energy of it and allow whateverwants to come up during that
time and be present with it.
You chop it down very finely,then mix it with about 200
milliliters, 250 of water.
Don't boil it because obviouslyyou start boiling it, you're
breaking down the chemicalcomposition of it.
(17:07):
So the water needs to be heatedand just, you know, cook it
very, Gently and slowly add abit of cayenne pepper into it
because the cayenne helps it getinto the system quicker.
Yeah.
Then once you prepare it, it'susually like a ceremonial dose.
It's usually quite thick.
It's not the easiest thing todrink.
(17:27):
You know, everyone's like, ooh,chocolate, delicious.
And you drink it and you'relike, what is this?
You know, like medicine.
I don't know if anyone's everdone any plant medicines before,
but like there have been timeswhen I've drunk ayahuasca and
there have been times when I'vedrunk ceremonial cacao and I've
been like, I can't drink this.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Oh, wow.
And What have you found thedifference to be between
ayahuasca and the cacao?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
What, taste-wise?
Yeah.
It's so...
Do you know what I find reallyfascinating?
I found a different word ratherthan interesting.
Nice.
Every time I drink ceremonialcacao, it tastes different.
Some days it will be, like,really sweet and really
palatable, and some days I can'tdrink it, and if I can't drink
it, I won't, because usuallyit's the body's way of saying,
(18:13):
''No, I don't want this today.''I think that sometimes it maybe
it also reflects the energy ofthe self or the energy of what's
going on, because sometimes, youknow, you do feel a bit sweeter
in life and sometimes maybe youfeel a bit more bitter and it's
a bit challenging and stuff.
I mean, naturally, it is reallybitter, really bitter.
(18:34):
Not like eating a hot chocolateat all.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
No, chocolate is, I want to say it's a bastardised
thing.
version of anything really it
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
is very interestingly I'm only just
really making this bizarreconnection right now but I did
I've done many many jobs in mytime but I did go for a period
where I did the PR for Lindt theSwiss chocolate brand the
chocolatiers yes what chocolatenaturally is and what we have on
(19:05):
the shelves in the supermarketare dramatically different
products 500 grams of ceremonialcacao will cost you about£50.
SPEAKER_01 (19:14):
The real stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Yeah.
And, you know, a 500 gram bar ofchocolate will cost you what?
Depending on what brand you'rebuying anywhere from like a
pound to maybe£3.50.
And the real difference is likeif you start looking into what
it's packed out with...
And the amount of sugar that'sin it, all of those things.
(19:38):
I mean, most chocolate brandsare like heavily vegetable, fat,
palm oil, those kind of things.
Also, farmers aren't always paida fair wage because it's all
done by hand.
Like the process is all done byhand.
When you look into the chocolatebar trade, There's a lot about
(20:01):
it that is highly unethical.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Highly unethical.
Incredibly dark.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Even when they try and push ethics.
I mean, it's the same.
We're not going to, I won't getonto a rant about capitalism.
We're saving that for later.
That's coming, right?
But yeah, it is highly, highlyremoved.
But then that's a lot of life ingeneral though, isn't it?
The parallel, right?
Yeah, a beautiful origin ofsomething that is based purely
(20:31):
for love and connection of theself and then we take it and
turn it into a capitalistventure, brand it and rewrap it
and sell it as fast as wepossibly can to make as much
money as we can.
And I think we did just go on acapitalist rant, sorry.
No, I
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
like the capitalist rant.
And in that process, you end upconditioning people into
believing in a certain way,removing people from their kind
of essence as well.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
Well, it's everything.
It's all about removing everyonefrom their spiritual essence.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
Before I had my awakening, I was very much
completely removed from myspiritual asset.
Like I didn't believe in spirit.
You'd see like hippies andthings like that, but I was just
like, God, tie dye, incense, notfor me.
Like, what the fuck?
(21:28):
Yeah.
I was very much like, you know,I worked for...
big corporate companies my focuswas always making money and
spending money you knowobtaining things to try and find
some idea of what happiness ismeant to be or the idea of
happiness that is sold to us oryou know work hard play hard
(21:50):
like all of these things andthen when I had my awakening I
was like oh my fucking god likehold on a second what is the
true meaning of life Whathappened?
What was
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
your awakening?
What got you to that point?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
So I was becoming more and more removed from
myself.
It was really quite interestingbecause I was becoming more and
more aware of how far I would goto remove myself from feeling
anything.
You know, like my jobs werealways super stressful and
(22:27):
consuming work.
all hours.
I wouldn't spend any time insilence.
I would always have headphoneson.
I was always reading andlistening to something at the
same time.
How do you even do that?
It's craziness.
My weekends were spent goingshopping, going out to bars and
(22:47):
restaurants, and I was partyingquite a lot.
Every morning, I would wake upand just be so full of regret.
my underlying thought was alwayslike, something's not right
here.
Something's really, really notright.
I had probably for quite a fewyears had instances of that real
impasse of like, I'm notentirely sure if I'm down with
(23:10):
life, but I don't want to bedead either.
And I would always come to, Iwould always hit this kind of
like rock bottom where thatwould be my thing.
But I never actually wanted tobe, I was never like, I got to
the point where I was like,actually, do you know what?
I'm really fucking done withthis.
Like, I don't get it.
And then obviously, from thatmoment, I would make decisions
and be like, well, let's removethe things, the things that are
(23:33):
making me the most unhappy,let's change them.
So I was always, you know,changing job, changing home.
But the reality is you takeyourself everywhere.
And the one thing that I wasn'tdoing was going like, hey,
What's really going on with you?
I was always like, it's externalcircumstances.
It's my job.
(23:54):
It's my partner.
It's that I don't weigh enough.
I'm not thin enough, or I'm notpretty enough, or I don't earn
enough money, or I don't go onenough holidays, or I don't have
enough shoes and things likethat.
So yeah, and then I got to apoint where I was like, okay,
something has to really changehere.
(24:15):
Because I'm not happy at all.
So I stopped drinking.
I stopped partying.
You know, I was doing pot yoga,juice cleanses, like all of
these things.
Even after like probably liketwo months of that behavior, I
remember laying on my yoga mat.
(24:35):
I felt so disconnected from mybody in like Savasana.
That's the point where you'remeant to feel real relaxation
and connection.
And I was just like, pah.
I'm not happy.
I don't know what's going on.
I just don't feel anything.
But then just carried on kind ofblindly being like, I guess I'll
figure it out some way, shape orform.
(24:57):
And a few months later, mygranddad was really ill in
hospital.
I saw him in a really bad stateand it really triggered me.
I hadn't been drinking.
And then two nights later, Iwent out and got absolutely
hammered.
Absolutely.
Like one of my friends was like,she was like, I don't think I've
(25:19):
ever seen you that drunk.
Because normally I'm quite an incontrol person.
But I was just like, I justwanted oblivion.
I just wanted to feel nothing.
And I was just like, God, I justdon't know what to do.
What is really going on here?
And one of my friends was like,oh, go and see, why don't you go
and see my energy healer?
(25:39):
And I was like, oh, that's suchbollocks.
I was like, I don't think that'sfor me.
And, you know, like I hadabsolutely no belief in anything
apart from science, whateverthat means, the version of
science that is completelyremoved from real scientific
teaching or spirituality, whichis a lot of what science is
(26:01):
based on.
But anyway, she was like, you'vegot nothing to lose.
And I was like, actually, it's areally good point.
So a couple of days before I hadmy healing, I was like, maybe I
should just cancel it and book amassage instead.
It's like really trying to talkmyself out of it.
I was like, I don't want to dothis.
It seems like a real waste ofmoney.
But anyway, I went and Josie,the beautiful angel who is my
(26:26):
healer, I met her.
And for the first time, like Itold her things that I told no
one.
I mean, I'd done a bit oftherapy.
here and there and actuallybefore this point I just got a
new therapist as well because Iwas like you need to talk to
someone about this stuff youknow I had a really open honest
conversation with her about meand like she asked me quite a
(26:47):
lot of stuff about my past andanyway I had this healing and
all of a sudden I felt like Iwas having a panic attack this
weight was just pushing down onmy chest like pushing and
pushing and pushing down on mychest and And I went through a
phase of having panic attacksand stuff.
And I was like, fuck, I'm havinganother panic attack.
(27:09):
Sorry, I swear quite a lot.
And she was like, just let go.
Just let go of that.
And I was like, okay.
So all of a sudden, this rush ofenergy just flew up my body and
came out of my mouth.
And I was animalistic, wailing,crying to the point where I
(27:29):
started laughing so much becauseI was like whose fucking mouth
is that coming out of like isthat coming out of me and I had
a really really big cry and shewas just like that's years old
and I was like yeah that and itwas really weird because the
energy felt old like it didn'tfeel like do you know when you
cry about something and ithappens and it's immediate and
(27:51):
you understand what this I hadno explanation for apart from
the fact that it was in me andit had just come out anyway so I
left there and I was like oh Ifelt like obviously a bit
knackered but quite light
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
totally released
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
and then a couple of days later I got really ill
couldn't get out of bed I wasvomiting all the time I had
really bad diarrhea and sorry ifthis is too much for anyone but
my body was basically purgingall of this toxicity that I've
been holding on And I couldn'tdo anything.
(28:27):
Like I couldn't watch TV.
I couldn't listen to anything.
I couldn't talk to anyone.
And so I was just forced to bein bed that whole time.
And then all of a sudden, myinner voice came back to me.
It was like, hey, Nicola.
And I was like...
Okay, I've gone full tilt mentalnow.
And it's like, so we're gonnahave a bit of a chat.
And I was like, okay, I'm justgonna tell you some of the
(28:51):
reasons why you do the thingsyou do.
And why you've been living yourlife the way that you have.
And I was like, okay.
And literally, I had thisinternal dialogue with myself.
And it was all like, all aboutbasically that I'd been holding
on to a lot of stuff from mychildhood.
Yeah.
(29:12):
For so many years, my parentsdidn't have the happiest
relationship.
I mean, obviously, I'm not goingto go into the full story of it
because it's not just my storyto tell.
And I want to be respectful ofthat.
But I guess my part in it and myexperience was that, you know, I
had parents who eventually weremarried for 16 years and
(29:32):
divorced when I was like 15, 16.
And it wasn't easy at all.
But at the time, I'd neverreally dealt with it because you
don't.
Everyone's just trying to cope.
Everyone's just trying to get onwith it.
And I sort of started pullingthings out of Pandora's box and
being like, okay, I can actuallysee why I make all of these
decisions, why I've gone downthis path and stuff.
(29:55):
So it was really interesting.
And I went to see my therapisttwo weeks later and I was like,
so something really weird hashappened.
And I was like, I think I've hada bit of a spiritual awakening.
And I kind of realized why I doall of these things and why I've
been unhappy and why I've beentrying to numb myself for so
many years.
Because it's like this, this,this, this.
And she was like, draw on thefloor oh my god she's like yes
(30:17):
yes of course yeah So and that'swhat started me off on this
path.
And I went back and I was havingmore healings.
And I was obviously seeing mytherapist.
So going into a very deep lineof inquiry.
Then I had this like a monthlater, I was walking down the
(30:40):
street home from work.
And I just remembered feeling soalone.
overwhelmingly happy, like lightfor the first time in years,
connected with myself.
And then I had this likerealization that I wanted to
(31:00):
really help others discoverthemselves and heal.
Then I went and did my energyattunements as well.
And that in itself ends upunearthing a lot more of
everything that you do when youtread the path of healing
facilitator or maybe it's justme maybe other people do realize
(31:22):
but what you don't realize isthat you actually spend your
whole entire life doing work on
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
yourself no
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
but you're right and you become your biggest piece of
work at your guide and yourteacher as well absolutely but
that's what life should be likeI had this conversation with a
client the other day the biggestproject the most important
project anyone will ever work onin their entire life is
themselves We all work hard.
The more you focus on yourself,the happier you'll become.
(31:52):
Even though sometimes you'll belike, okay, this is quite hard
to look at.
And there are parts of me that Idon't want to acknowledge or I'm
not ready to acknowledge andstuff.
But ultimately, the more youshine light on the darkness, the
lighter you become.
And the easier life becomes andthe more, you know, I...
(32:14):
realized that I'd become veryclosed off to people as well.
Even though I had lots offriends and I was very social,
the reality was I didn't reallylet anyone close to me.
And the more you work onyourself and the more you open
up to yourself, the more youopen up to everyone and the more
easier it is to relate to peopleas well on a real human level
(32:38):
rather than a superficial level.
the language that we use like ohhow are you I'm fine yeah the f
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
word
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
I'm fine I'm
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
busy you know while you're talking that whole thing
so I guess my moment was when Ialmost kind of compare it to you
know that moment when those old90s tv shows when you go in to
have a makeover and they put youin that mirrored box it's like
(33:07):
look at yourself in yourunderwear and it's like Really
torturous, right?
That is kind of how I almostlike have had to deal with my
darkness to deal with my demons.
And they ain't pretty, they arenot nice.
But actually, being in aconfined space with them, just
me and my demons is actuallywhere it's at.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
it's so interesting isn't it because we label things
as good and label things as badand lame like like the demons
are like the bad parts of uslike oh I've got my demons yeah
and the thing is the demons arethere because they're the one
the parts of us that are cryingout to be loved are crying out
to be seen certainly for me likefor a really long time I was
(33:51):
just like This needs to beimproved.
This needs to be improved.
This needs to be improved.
And actually, it was nothingneeded to be improved.
It's just that I needed to lovemyself and accept myself more.
With no improvement necessary,just knowing that whatever the
demons are, are there becauseit's a part of us that is crying
(34:11):
out for something.
Even now, I'm always like, if Ihave demons or things like that,
really ahead, I'm just like,come hang out with me.
Yeah.
Come be with me.
Let's have a cup of tea.
Yeah, I'm not going to banishyou or tell you that you should
be something else or you have tobe a specific way to be lovable.
You're fine absolutely as youare.
And I think that as soon as yourealize that you find that real
(34:35):
like radical self-acceptance ofthe parts of you you don't like,
the easier that life becomesbecause that part of you doesn't
need to play up for attention.
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
That's so true.
Yeah.
Totally.
So I'm going to not say, oh,that's interesting.
I agree and all that.
But I do.
Totally.
I want to ask you now about whatis your vision now that you're
in Cornwall and there's all thisstuff happening?
Because I want to ask also, areyou actually running?
(35:04):
cacao ceremonies over there areyou going to start because I
want to know so when I'm inCornwall I know where to go oh
my
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
god you're so more than welcome so I was doing a
bit of cacao ceremonies onlineand then I realized that I had
to do some more work on myselfbefore I was holding space for
other people so I stopped butactually I'm holding a private
ceremony for two people onMonday and then her and I are
(35:36):
going to hold a holistic yogacacao ceremony workshop
together.
Amazing.
And will you send me details?
I will send you details, yes.
It'll be some point in August,but...
The plan has been to find aspace to hold regular ceremonies
out of because I'm also in themiddle of doing a sound healing
(35:57):
diploma.
So I'm very much into shamanicdrums and crystal bowls and
gongs.
But As of yet, that space hasn'tpresented itself to me.
So, you know, everything alwaysworks out in the right time.
You have to trust in theprocess, even when it's not
going your way.
But I'm just going to startdoing some ceremonies here and
(36:20):
there and just see what happens.
I think ultimately, I am one ofthese people who I find
everything fascinating.
You know, like I really lovelearning.
One of my biggest joys isactually learning about things.
And I find healing modalitiesabsolutely fascinating.
(36:43):
When I did my Reikiachievements, I was never like I
wanted to be a full time healer.
And when I did my coaching, Iwas like, I never foresee myself
as being a full time coach forthe rest of my life.
for me I guess and this probablycomes on to my bigger vision is
that ultimately the reason thatI've moved here was because
during a cacao ceremony I had avision of me opening an
(37:08):
immersive healing center herewhich is I kind of like coin it
like the center parks of healingbut I've never been to Centre
Park, so I'm not going to sayanything untoward about Centre
Park.
I'm sure it's great.
I have no idea.
But, you know, like somewherewhere it's like a nice, big,
open facility for adults to comeand rediscover who they are
(37:32):
through access to healing,different healing modalities,
but also, you know, going backto school in a way, like having
art classes, pottery classes,music classes.
Like I want to have...
modern choir, dance classes.
I want to have like the land.
(37:52):
So it's like permaculture.
And so everything that comes offthe grounds is used in the
kitchen.
Also have it so it's a socialenterprise.
So there's a real issue here inCornwall.
Lots of cafes and like lots ofrestaurants are basically
really, really short staffedbecause it's The housing market
(38:14):
here has rocketed so much thatpeople can't afford to buy or
rent.
People who do jobs that aretraditionally minimum wage or a
little bit higher can't actuallyafford to live in the area.
I guess unless you live withyour parents.
So what I believe is that ifyou're going to open a venture
(38:38):
somewhere, then you have aresponsibility to look after
those around you.
You know, how do you give jobsto the local?
How do you create jobs for localpeople, even when people aren't
necessarily skilled in that way,but doing things like giving
grants to people if they want toretrain to do something else and
having wages that are livingwage?
(39:01):
not minimum wage and I know it'snot easy for everyone and I know
it sounds very idealistic butyou know the reality is that it
all comes from how much profityou're willing to take away and
for me I've always wanted abusiness that is primarily about
giving back in some way likehelp it I I met this amazing
(39:22):
woman once and she was soinspiring and her name's Cressy
Westling fundamentally what shedoes is she's like a problem
solver.
And I guess coming from aproducing background is that I
am very naturally a problemsolver.
And so I think creatingsomething is amazing, but
(39:45):
creating based on what problemis it solving is really
important.
And with the retreat facility, Ifeel like It helps twofold,
which is it helps peoplerediscover their essence and
bring them back to their spiritand how we are, how by nature we
(40:05):
are community-based.
You know, back in the old days,everyone worked together.
You lived in communities whereyou all helped each other build
your houses.
You all looked after eachother's kids.
You all cooked and everyone atecommunally.
And that's what it should be,like primarily looking after
each other should be a joy.
(40:26):
And so I really want to helpadults rediscover their inner
essence, also create jobs forlocal people, and also create
social housing as well.
Because I think that it's one ofthose things where building
things is all well and good andgreat.
(40:48):
But when things are being builtto just be sold for maximum
profit to the highest bidder.
It's just perpetrating a problemthat becomes increasingly out of
control when there is no marketintervention at all.
And that's exactly what'shappening here in Cornwall.
The market has increased somuch.
It's now the most popular placeto buy in the country.
(41:10):
But if you look at itsocioeconomically, it's one of
the poorest parts of thecountry.
SPEAKER_01 (41:16):
It's
SPEAKER_00 (41:17):
just
SPEAKER_01 (41:18):
astonishing.
I just wanna ask you a questionin terms of the immersive
healing experience.
Where do I sign up?
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
That's where it's at.
Well, I mean, I guess I don't...
I mean, no
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
pressure.
I mean, are you thinking thisyear or
SPEAKER_00 (41:35):
when?
I have so many notebooks aroundthis place where I've done
outlines of exactly what I want,what I want to offer to people.
And I guess what's kind of niceis the more I delve into the
healing arts...
the more I discover things thatI know really work and things
(41:58):
that work in tandem and stufflike that.
So for me, it seems very naturalto be like, I understand so many
different things about so manydifferent things that to pull it
all together in one place.
So people could come and book infor a weekend.
People could come and book infor a month.
Even to the point where I wasthinking the other day that
actually people could come andbook in If you created a, I
(42:22):
always joke and say like, I wantto create a commune, but
actually the reality is that tome, it doesn't really feel like
much of a joke anymore.
To me, it feels like somethingthat actually would be a really
beautiful venture.
And maybe it's a case of,there's this amazing guy.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim.
(42:43):
I think his name, Michael B.
Singer, and he wrote TheSurrender Experiment.
Have you read it?
No,
SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
but tell me more.
SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
He, I'm obviously going to very much paraphrase
this and probably get somethings wrong, but he basically,
like many years ago, I thinkhe's in his 60s now, when he was
around about 19, 20-ish, hebecame very aware of his ego,
the voice inside of the head.
And he was like, what is thisvoice inside the head?
(43:11):
Where does it come from?
What's its function?
And he was doing, I think he waslike studying economics or
something at quite a prestigiousuniversity in the States.
I might be getting this wrong,but basically he dropped out and
he decided that he just wantedto meditate.
He felt like he found meditationand he realized that meditation
(43:33):
was really stilling and calmingthe mind and calming the ego.
And he was just like, not reallyup for life.
I want to get camper van, go offto the woods and meditate.
And so he did.
And he went to, I think it waslike Mexico.
He just found this like filledsomewhere there was no one
around and these two guys cameacross him and like his ego was
(43:57):
like who are these guys I justwant to be by myself I don't
want it and anyway these twoguys like talking to him and
they offered him one of theirhorses and he went for like this
amazing ride on this horse andhe kind of realized that if he
bought into his ego and said nohe would have missed that
incredible soul life-affirmingexperience that he had with that
horse being completely free andcompletely one with another
(44:21):
creature and so he was like sowhat happens if you did exactly
the opposite of your ego and sohe came back to the states and
basically but he still wanted tobe a bit of a nomad and a loner
so he ended up buying a piece ofland with nothing on it to just
live on by himself.
And he just found that peoplekept coming and finding him and
(44:44):
being like, what are you doinghere?
Like, oh, can I build upsomething on this land?
And he learned to build his homethat he had on it.
He taught himself with a coupleof friends.
They taught themselveselectrical wiring and plumbing
and all of these things.
And then a couple saw the houseoff the road and they came and
found him.
They're like, will you build...
our house.
(45:05):
And he was like, I'm not atrained builder.
I did this with my mates.
And they were like, we don'tcare.
And so he ended up having abuilding firm that built houses
just by chance of saying yes towhen things came along and he
wanted to say no, he said yes.
So he then, I can't rememberwhat it's called now, but
basically his piece of land,more, he was doing like Sunday,
(45:26):
we were doing like Sundayservice, but it was like
spiritual based, so likemeditation, getting in touch
with the self.
And he just found that like moreand more people were coming.
They were building more housesand like space on it.
And it basically turned intothis spiritual commune.
And there's another veryelaborate part of the book where
basically he became amultimillionaire as well,
(45:47):
because he was one of the firstdesigners of a software database
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
wow
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
he designed this huge medical database in the
states the first medicaldatabase that keeps all medical
records and he ended up becominga multi-millionaire through it
and then also ended up beinginvestigated by the FBI because
one of his team was doing likefraud loads of fraudulent
activity with the company andstuff so it goes I mean
(46:14):
obviously goes on to lots ofdifferent like talking about his
life and how sometimes you haveto just things happen out of
your control and you're like, Ijust have to trust that
everything's going to be okay.
And so it's a great, anyone isinterested, it's called The
Surrender Experiment.
SPEAKER_01 (46:28):
The Surrender Experiment.
I have made a note of that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
It's a very good book and very interesting.
And I think for me, the thingthat interests me the most is
like having that space to Iguess in a way it is like being
a bit of like a shaman, holdingthe community together, having
the community's interest as thehighest good collectively.
And, you know, how do peoplecome together?
(46:54):
How do they work together?
How do we look after each other?
How do we nurture each other?
How do we nourish each other?
For me, those are the mostimportant questions that
humanity face right now,because...
The biggest crisis that we haveis the complete lack of
spiritual connection toourselves as a whole.
(47:16):
Because I do truly believe themore that you're connected to
yourself, the more you'reconnected to nature.
Oh, agreed.
Yeah.
The oneness of everything.
There is no separation at all.
We're all just reflections ofeach other.
The good and what is labeled thegood, what is labeled the bad.
The good, the bad, whatever thatis.
(47:36):
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (47:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:36):
And the more we see that and we choose to come
together rather than beseparate, the better life will
become.
But life is designed to bedivisive.
And the more divided we are, theeasily controlled we are.
And that was like the beginningof last year, I had another
really big awakening to thereality of this system that we
(48:01):
live in, in this country andglobally.
SPEAKER_01 (48:04):
whenever I'm talking to my husband who now listens to
me when I talk to him aboutstuff like this I say to him
like I get it it's like thematrix it is the matrix you
haven't seen that yet have you?
No
SPEAKER_00 (48:17):
I haven't I think when you and I spoke last time I
just watched it I mean I'm notsurprised the first time I
watched it I think like aboyfriend of mine at the time
made me watch it and I was likeoh God, I can't be bothered with
this.
I don't get it.
And then I was like, I'm goingto watch The Matrix and see what
everyone's talking about.
And I started watching it and Iwas just like that blown brain
(48:40):
emoji.
Like, oh my God.
This film actually goes intosome really deep philosophical
questions about what is reality?
What is life really?
And I honestly think thatreality is whatever you choose
it to be.
I don't think it's ever beenmore apparent that two people
(49:02):
can coexist in differentrealities.
SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
Oh, so true.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
And because your reality is whatever your head is
telling you is your reality.
A couple of years ago, I did anayahuasca retreat.
It was the most eye-opening andunexpected.
I mean, I knew it was going tobe a big deal because my ego was
hugely resistant to it.
(49:26):
But So much of the journeys thatI experienced were all about
what is reality and how much youcreate reality as well and how
you can decide what your realityis.
But in any given moment, you candecide your reality is something
different.
It's all about perspective.
Wow.
(49:46):
And I came back and I was quitea broken human being.
Okay.
Basically, I've realized thateverything is meaningless and
nothing is real how do I then goand fit back into my old like
I'm back on Monday morning I goback to work and sit at my desk
and like just get on like I'mexactly the same person where I
(50:08):
feel like the old me just likeshattered and fell apart yeah
and I'm like well what is lifewhat is reality what are what
are all of these things and butthat is like
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
I don't Because I love the fact that you're
constantly asking questions.
You know, that inquiry is alwaysthere, that curiosity, that
inquisitiveness.
But at that point, for me, thebiggest thing that comes up is
I'm here to play.
I'm here to play.
And what happened for you atthat point?
SPEAKER_00 (50:39):
Well, I think, do you know what?
It's interesting.
I hope someone's keeping a tallyof how many times we say it's
interesting on this podcast.
Because I...
I actually think one of mybiggest challenges is that
sometimes I get so swept up inself-inquiry.
I always jokingly say that I'mtwo steps away from an
(51:02):
existential crisis.
at any given time, always.
Because I always like, what isthe meaning?
And why does this happen?
And blah, blah, blah.
But like, if this exists, thenwhy does this exist?
And how can I do this, but stilldo that and get so wrapped up in
trying to like, think my waythrough and out the other side
(51:26):
of something that actually, Iwould forget that the reality is
that you foremost you came herefor a human experience whatever
that looks like I don't knowit's an individual expression of
the self but one of my bigthings is on my to-do list or
(51:47):
like goals for the month isalways like have more fun learn
to play learn to enjoy thingsbut it's very challenging isn't
it because like kids when I wasa child I was so lucky because
my parents gave me so much toplay with I had toys I had
creative toys I had recordsmusic and creativity and fun and
(52:12):
I was very indulged and I wasvery lucky but at some point I
everything becomes reallyserious.
And I personally think it'sprobably when you start, when
you go into senior school andthe primary conditioning really
starts and really kicks in, whenwe're all being molded to learn
the same things, wear the sameclothes, only think the way that
(52:37):
we're told we're allowed tothink, not to question any, how
dare you question anyone?
How dare you question authority?
all of those things about beingwrangled to be the same mind, to
think the same way, to behavethe same way, to be docile is
appalling.
And then all of a sudden, it'stesting becomes the thing,
(53:00):
performance, you're measured byhow good your grades are, how
well behaved you are, the lengthyou wear your skirt, everything
becomes performance monitored.
And basically, we set childrenup to learn that you live in a
world that is your performanceis monitored constantly.
And then you go out, you mightgo to university and experience
(53:22):
exactly the same thing again,for a really prolonged period of
time, which is a really longtime of conditioning of how to
behave, then you go out into thework world and you're told that
you have to perform.
You have to have a job to be afunctioning member of society.
You have to earn money becauseyou need to save up to buy a
(53:43):
home, to get into a hugelyinflated mortgage that you're
going to spend the next 25 yearsof your life paying to get a
car, have a family, all of thesethings.
Everything is about feeding thesystem of capitalism and
consumerism.
That is what life is.
(54:04):
Unless you are taught to see adifferent way.
But for the majority of us,We're all taught to view life
that way.
I mean, like no one ever, Idon't, I mean, I studied
economics at A-level.
No, I really paid that muchattention.
I just wanted to go on the twoschool trips that they had to
like Paris and to Belgium.
That's an aside.
(54:25):
But no one actually talks to youlike for a really good reason,
right?
You're not taught what emotionalintelligence is.
Oh, of course not.
Absolutely not.
The most fundamental part ofbeing human you're not taught
about.
SPEAKER_01 (54:39):
But this is what you do now as a life coach.
We're here because we are notonly learning and picking
ourselves up, but we're alsohelping people who have been
hoodwinked by the system
SPEAKER_00 (54:51):
And
SPEAKER_01 (54:52):
turn into circus monkeys, basically.
Perform, do this, do that.
And we set our children up tofail because we've been set up
to fail.
SPEAKER_00 (55:02):
Oh, I mean, absolutely.
I remember when I first...
I actually first decided Iwanted to be a life coach
probably about six or sevenyears ago.
I had, at one point, had aproper nervous breakdown.
I had a whole weekend where...
I couldn't get out of bedbecause I was crying so much
(55:23):
because I was just like, I'm sofundamentally unhappy.
And on paper, I worked at a goodcompany in a creative job that
lots of people would have giventheir right arm to have.
I had a boyfriend and I hadgreat friends and I had a social
(55:44):
life and I had my own home.
All of these things seemingly,but I was fundamentally
miserable.
I somehow ended up reading thisbook.
article about this woman who hadbecome so burnt out through
stress that her back completelywent and she ended up spending
six months in bed because shecouldn't move and that's what
(56:06):
induced her spiritual awakeningand then she became a life coach
and I remembered reading thatand I was like oh my fucking god
that's what I want to do I wantto help people but I obviously
realized that they were likethat's what you're going to do
but you really need to sort yourshit out first before you do any
of this and I was like okay fineI obviously didn't realize that
at the time but I remembersaying to my mom I was like I
(56:28):
really want to be a life coachand she was like that's a
ridiculous job why can't peoplejust suck it up and get on with
it?
I mean, bless her.
To be fair, she's spent a lot ofher life sucking stuff up and
getting on with it in not theeasiest of circumstances.
So, you know, understandablereaction.
But it's such a common reaction.
Like when people are like, oh,I've got a life coach or I'm
(56:49):
going to be a life coach.
I think so many people thinkthat it's so indulgent.
Like, you know, why can't youjust be happy with what you've
got?
The reality is that, as you say,we've been hoodwinked.
This is not how life is meant tobe.
There's no way that your higherintelligence decided to come
(57:09):
here to get a job, pay taxes, ifyou're lucky, have enough money
to go on holidays, maybe acouple of times a year, eat junk
food, drink alcohol, all ofthese things that we're so
conditioned to do that justremove us further and further
away from the truth of who weare.
It's actual insanity.
(57:31):
And then I think once you'veseen that that's how the world
is structured, you can't everunsee that.
For me, my passion is abouthelping people rediscover
themselves, rediscovering theirpower.
Because for a really long time,and there are still times when I
talk myself out of doing thingsbecause the usual things like
(57:51):
security, home, money and stuff,but then I'm like, we all know
that none of this is real it'sjust all a construct so I'm
usually always working with atleast two people at a time when
I'm going through changes orwhen I want to make changes in
my life and stuff like thatbecause I understand that you
know my conditioning runs reallydeep
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
yeah I totally hear what you're saying
SPEAKER_00 (58:15):
I need someone to call me out on my bullshit Yes.
And be like, are you buying intoa story of how you think life is
rather than the reality?
Which is the reality is you canactually do anything you set
your mind to.
You've just got to believe inyourself.
And if you don't believe inyourself, go find someone who
does and make yourselfaccountable to them.
(58:35):
Do
SPEAKER_01 (58:37):
you have a question for the listeners before you go?
SPEAKER_00 (58:43):
Yeah.
Do I have a question for thelisteners?
Do you know what?
I think I'm going to start withthe question that you asked me.
Who are you?
I guess it's something that Itouched on very briefly, but one
of the things that I've realizedis like, who are you?
Who are you?
What are you made up of?
If you listed all of yourpersonality traits, the things
(59:08):
you think you are, the storiesof your life, Who told you
that's how you are?
How did you come to think thatthat is how life is for you?
And what happens if you droppedall of the personality, all of
the constructs of who you thinkyou are?
Who are you?
(59:29):
So I guess that's the question.
If you dropped all of theconstructs of your personality
and who you think you are, Whoare you?
I hope you enjoyed that.
SPEAKER_01 (59:41):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of
eternal paradigm.
Join me next time.
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