November 24, 2021 • 43 mins
In this powerful and emotionally raw episode of The Moment When Everything Changed, our host shares the intimate truth of what it really looks like to heal from betrayal, rebuild trust, and move forward after everything falls apart. This is not just a story of heartbreak — it’s a story of rediscovery, deep emotional work, and finding strength in the most unexpected of places.
After an incident that shook the foundation of her relationship, she found herself spiraling — emotionally exhausted, overwhelmed by mixed emotions, and uncertain about her future. The early days of her pregnancy were marked by emotional chaos: living apart from her partner, struggling with deep resentment, and feeling trapped in a cycle of anger, confusion, and hopelessness.
It wasn’t until she stumbled across a YouTube video on betrayal trauma that she began to understand the symptoms she was experiencing — not just mentally, but physically. Intrusive thoughts, emotional flashbacks, and somatic memories made it feel like she was reliving the trauma daily. That realization became a turning point. She referred herself for therapy and advocated to receive EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) — a powerful trauma therapy known to help reprocess emotional pain stuck in the body.
Despite the emotional risks during pregnancy, and with the guidance of healthcare professionals, she completed eight intensive EMDR sessions — finishing the final one just five days before giving birth.
She reflects on the power of EMDR, hypnotherapy, and tapping (EFT) to access healing beyond traditional talk therapy — helping her reframe what happened, understand her emotional reactions, and finally begin to release the guilt, confusion, and shame.
This episode also dives into the emotional toll of unsupportive friendships, the pain of losing a bridesmaid, and the isolation that comes when others can’t accept your choices. But despite the judgment and emotional strain, she held her ground, embraced the messiness of healing, and found purpose in her journey — including the unexpected joy of becoming a mother.
She now anchors herself in the powerful reminder: “I did my best.” And in doing so, she found clarity, compassion, and the courage to keep going.
What You'll Hear in This Episode:
- What betrayal trauma really feels like — emotionally and physically
- The impact of pregnancy on emotional clarity and subconscious healing
- Living through relationship uncertainty while expecting a child
- How EMDR therapy works and why it’s so powerful for trauma
- Tapping (EFT), hypnotherapy, and somatic healing techniques
- The limitations of talk therapy and why deeper healing often requires body-based approaches
- Losing friendships and setting boundaries when others don’t support your
Final Thoughts & How to Get Involved
If this episode resonated, I’d love to hear from you. These stories are a reminder that deep transformation is possible, even from the most difficult places.
If you're ready to explore therapeutic coaching or want to understand how it could support your journey, get in touch. This work can be truly life-changing. Get in touch with me for a Discovery Call
Help me bring more episodes to life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
What was that one big clear insight moment for you
where things just kind of went,this is it, this is the moment?
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
I think finding out I was pregnant.
And I knew before I took thetest.
I just knew.
I think that moment for me wasthe moment where I was like,
okay, there is another personthat's going to be involved in
all of this.
You know, an innocent personwith all of this.
So I think that was the momentthat I knew kind of, okay, this
is like a sign that things aregoing to be, you know, changing
(00:30):
and moving forward.
And...
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm, human experience for
the conscious explorer.
(01:11):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Hello, Amy, tell me.
How are you?
And can you introduce yourselffor the listeners, please?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Yes, of course.
So my name's Amy.
I am 26 years old, turning 27 ina few weeks' time.
I met you via a teaching coursethat we were in together for a
few weeks, February 2020, wasn'tit?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (01:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
So I guess the last kind of normality we had.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Yes, it really was, right?
That those, it was theSaturdays.
Did we do Saturday and Sunday?
I've totally forgotten.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Just Saturdays.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
It was just Saturdays.
And it was where we were allcoming in, kind of all like
moaning about the trains.
Yeah.
The weather and all sorts.
Yeah.
And that was quite aninteresting course, an amazing
group as well.
So, Amy, we're talking today.
So what has kind of from thatpoint when we kind of were on
(02:24):
the course to now, what's beenhappening?
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
So I obviously lockdown happened.
I was followed for a few weeks,which was actually really,
really nice.
A lot had been happeningactually leading up to lockdown.
lockdown like personal stuff aswell not much to do I guess with
the big topic that we're goingto talk about today but just
some family things and somedeaths in the family and um just
(02:53):
sorting out some big things todo with that family member's
death and and supporting likevulnerable family members and
things like that so it was a Iwas quite actually relieved for
lockdown when it came I wasactually obviously we did the
teacher's course I was working alot I was traveling a lot for
work and then lockdown came andyeah I was kind of it was so
(03:15):
nice to have those few weeks offin the sunshine then I went back
to work but I was workingremotely from home all
throughout the summer weddinggot cancelled because of
lockdown.
So that was quite heartbreaking.
I'm sure lots of people had tocancel things and postpone
things and things like that.
(03:37):
And that was quite hard.
having to rearrange the weddingand try and get a new day and
try and move all of thesuppliers over that we wanted to
work with, like our florist andour band and photographer and
all those kind of people thatyou work with.
And then I fell pregnant inAugust.
(03:58):
So again, another big change.
I don't think we were inlockdown then, the lockdown had
just kind of ended when I fellpregnant, still working from
home until I went back into workfor a month between October and
November and then lockdownhappened again and then I was
back working from home until Iwent on maternity leave and also
(04:21):
in the September time AugustSeptember time just after I
found out I was pregnant I alsocompleted my assessor's
qualification as well so we didthe teaching course together and
then I did my assessor'squalification remotely as well
over a few months I did thatwhile pregnant too so that's
(04:42):
really and then obviously I hadmy baby in April and then just
been in mum mode I guess sincethen for these last few months
that he's been alive
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
that is incredible so it's like I'm really sorry to
hear about about the familymember passed away so that is
never easy but what I want toask you about your wedding
because when we were on thetraining course together yeah
you the presentation that youdid was all about leaf
(05:16):
preservation and flowerpreservation and the reason I
bring this up is because youwere actually planning, you were
doing this, you'd been foragingleaves for how long and what
happened?
Yeah
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
so we started foraging in early autumn a year
before because we needed toforage, we needed to preserve to
have them before the wedding andwe wouldn't have had time to
start foraging and preservingbecause the wedding was in
October.
So we just wouldn't have had thetime before.
So we had to do it a year prior.
Then we found out, obviously weneed to postpone for a year.
(05:54):
So now the leaves are two yearsold that we foraged and
preserved.
I last got them out last year.
We did some like decorating forlike autumn at home.
And we put them out on ourmantel with some gourds and some
pumpkins and stuff.
And they still looked fine.
I haven't checked them sincethen.
(06:16):
Been too busy.
But I just think if they're notperfect, then I just need to...
not use them because there's notime now to do foraging and
preserving again beforehand butyeah I love
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
that I love that because after that obviously I
came home and that's exactlywhat we did I did that with the
kids for like every weekbrilliant absolutely brilliant
and it's such an added personaltouch right
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
I know it would be really sad if we can't use it
because it was like a reallycreative thing that we got like
to add in but you know just haveto roll with it if we can't use
them for the decoration
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
yeah yeah I hear you I hear you and so so obviously
like you said you know thewedding having to kind of not
happen at that point movingthings around what what is
happening now because thewedding didn't happen but you
ended up with another amazingsurprise
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
yeah exactly so instead of getting married we
had a baby instead yeah ofcourse and and now our baby will
be at our wedding which is justcrazy to think like when we were
planning because we've been inwe would have been engaged two
years before we got married andso from the engagement to the
wedding you know it was twoyears planning and like when we
(07:36):
started planning planning afterthe engagement I would never
would have thought that we'dhave like our baby at the
wedding um you know you thinkyou see that kind of like years
and years down the road so yeahit's um it's worked out
obviously how it was meant towork out so he was meant to be
there with us so I'm reallylooking forward to having him
there on day start having tothink about different logistical
(07:58):
things who's going to have himin the evening how am I going to
breastfeed him who's going toyou know be looking after him in
the day when we're busy and So,yeah, we need to think about how
to navigate a wedding with aseven month old baby as well.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Oh, but yes, obviously he wants to know that
he's arrived.
So he's definitely letting youknow.
So let's kind of move on to whatwe are really talking about,
which is which I'm going to cometo in a minute, actually,
because I think it's it's reallyimportant for me to say when we
(08:33):
were actually on the course thatwe did together.
I remember distinctly that whenwe both gave our presentations,
the feedback that we got fromthe group was that we were both
incredibly calm and collected atthe way that we delivered.
And just generally how we are aspeople, as who we are, we're
very, you know, you're so calm.
(08:55):
I remember meeting you and youwere just like, so with it, so
together.
And it's interesting becausethat has actually kind of, it's
the opposite of what we'reactually talking about today.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
And
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
it's something that we have our own kind of story to
tell about.
So we are talking about bodytrauma and trauma in the context
of your lived experience of it.
And you've just kind of roundedup all the things that have
happened in the past kind ofsince we started.
(09:29):
met at the beginning of 2020 towhere we are now and there have
been lots of pivots and turnsand changes and lots of things
have happened but while thatwhole process has been happening
you've still had to come back toaddress and readdress body
trauma and if you're if youwould basically be open to share
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
what happened obviously you know feeling
totally comfortable yeah go forit
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
yeah So obviously, I've given you the synopsis of,
I guess, what's happened sincewe last saw each other.
But there is another big, hugething that did happen in that
year that was, I guess, thereason for the trauma.
And of course, like it isinvolving other people.
So I can't go into too manydetails and things like that.
(10:20):
But I know also this is how weconceived our son as well um
because of this I don't thinkthat we would have had our baby
if all of this hadn't havehappened which I think I like to
look at it it is that kind ofangle as well so in lockdown I
think it was around July timejust before I got pregnant me so
(10:44):
obviously we'd spend the weddingwedding wasn't going ahead
things like that and the Sorry,in July time.
It's okay, take your time, takeyour
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
time.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
absolutely fine.
My fiancé was going throughquite a hard time for many
different reasons, currentsituations, job losses.
But also I think, you know, newchapter of life that was about
to start that then wasn'thappening and self-esteem issues
and trauma from childhood thathadn't been dealt with and lots
(11:18):
of different things.
And basically self-sabotaged ourrelationship and basically
cheated on me.
And I found out straight away, Iactually caught it happening,
which was a huge trauma initself.
being in that situation andwitnessing it and then of course
(11:40):
having that feedback loop inyour mind you know remembering
that happening so of course weneeded to work out what we were
going to do were we going tomove forward with the wedding we
know we knew we were postponingit anyway because of lockdown
but you know what were we goingto do we were going to move
forward what we're going tobreak up he immediately was
(12:01):
saying that he was going to gointo therapy work through the
issues that he had reassured methat it was nothing you know to
do with our relationship or meand that this was like an issue
that he has um and of course hejust went about you know
self-sabotaging and jeopardizingour relationship in the worst
(12:22):
way that he could have donebecause he didn't feel like he
was worthy of having that andwhich I think a lot of people
can relate to maybe notspecifically that but in other
areas of their life when theyself-sabotage whether it's a job
interview or a familyrelationship or a romantic
relationship or things likethat.
So I also agreed that I neededto do some therapy because I was
(12:48):
harboring a lot of anger and myself-esteem was extremely low.
I just thought, you know, I needto talk to someone to see if I
can move past this as well.
And I was in, I did someopen-ended talk therapy for
about eight sessions straightafter this happened as well.
Of course, you're reconnectingand trying to figure things out,
you know, your head's all overthe place.
(13:10):
That's when we actuallyconceived our baby so thrown
into the mix our relationship isup in the air then I find out
I'm pregnant and instinctively Iknew that I was going to keep my
baby I didn't want to not havemy baby even though it wasn't
the ideal situation and I didn'tknow what the future held for me
(13:34):
and him I knew that I was goingto keep the baby so whether I
was going to be doing it aloneor with him So that was another
huge kind of weight that was onmy shoulders.
And just lots and lots ofthings, I guess, to think about
and try and work through.
So my therapist that I had forthe eight sessions, the talking
(13:55):
therapist, she was actually thefirst person that I told that I
was pregnant to.
I hadn't told anybody.
And unfortunately, I didn't havethe best therapist-client
relationship with her.
I found her quite judgmental.
She...
I don't know, I just didn't gelwith her and I didn't really
feel like I was getting thesupport that I needed.
(14:16):
Again, it's so hard to knowwhether it was hormones raging
from my body or if it was both,if it was hormones raging from
my body and all this trauma thatI was harbouring that I hadn't
been able to get rid of and dealwith.
And I was basically justspiralling worse and worse with
(14:36):
this trauma.
Our relationship wasn't movingforward in a positive way.
He was doing his work, but Iwasn't doing the work that I
needed to do to help us moveforward.
So I...
Can
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I just ask you, because I'm listening to what
you're saying and you said justa little while ago how there
were so many different thingsthat you almost like...
Did you understand immediatelythat your fiancé was...
acting out because of unresolvedthings okay so that in itself
(15:12):
has been a process because nowyou're also talking about
understanding that you had to dothe work because he was doing
the work because that's a bigkind of to understand that is
quite big you know and so butyeah sorry carry on you're
saying so
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah, I was spiraling worse and worse and I
was feeling worse and worseabout myself.
And I was feeling worse andworse about our future, our
relationship.
I was giving him mixed signals.
I was being hot and cold.
I was, one day I was, you know,being really positive about us
moving forward together.
The next day I would be, youknow, basically saying this is
never going to work.
And, you know, I know we'rehaving a baby together, but
(15:51):
basically I don't think that I'mever going to be able to trust
you or move forward with you or,you know, be...
happy with you again I guess andum for the first month of my
pregnancy we weren't livingtogether he had moved out um
after and the incident happenedbefore I fell pregnant then he
still wasn't we weren't livingtogether for the first month of
(16:14):
the pregnancy then we startedliving together again and I
think when you're just harboringso much resentment towards
someone and so much anger justliving in a small space with
them obviously he wasn't workingand because of lockdown and I
was working from home.
So we were constantly on top ofeach other as well.
(16:34):
So I just feel like there wasjust lots and lots of things
brewing and it was just, yeah,it was just really, really tough
and I wasn't handling it in apositive way at all.
I YouTubed just kind of what Iwas feeling like.
I guess I've just tried tosearch for some videos out there
And I came across a video thatwas basically all about betrayal
(16:58):
trauma and all of the symptomsthat you're suffering with if
you are experiencing betrayaltrauma.
And I was experiencing all ofthem.
And we're talking about physicaltrauma in the body because you
do feel those physical emotionsin your body as if you were
actually there.
So all of the sensations I feltwhen I was there, when I was
(17:19):
there, shocked by, you know,what I had uncovered.
It was like those emotions andthose feelings hadn't left my
body.
So I was constantly kind oftrapped in that cycle.
And then, of course, they werein my mind.
I was thinking about it everyday, reliving details of it,
just kind of like playing itback as if I was in that same
situation every single day.
And then I referred myself toMind Matters in Surrey.
(17:44):
My first therapy was throughprivate healthcare for my work.
And then my second time havingmore therapy was through NHS.
So I referred myself throughMind Matters to the NHS and
through like learning aboutbetrayal trauma, I learned that
the best type of therapy is theEMDR therapy.
And I had no clue what it was,but I knew it was similar to the
(18:06):
emotional freedom technique withthe tapping, which I had done
before.
Just like by myself, not througha therapist or anything, just
discovered tapping along the waya few years ago and would just
like incorporate it sometimeswhen feeling anxious about
certain things so I said to thelady on the phone who was doing
my consultation I really want totry out this EMDR therapy told
(18:30):
her everything that had happenedall the details how I was
feeling she went through likethe scale of like unlikely, very
likely with me about how I'mfeeling about different
situations.
And she agreed that I was likesuffering with like some mild
PTSD and other types of trauma.
And she said that there is veryfew therapists on the NHS who do
(18:53):
the EMDR.
And of course, I was newlypregnant as well.
So she said she'd had thetherapist have to talk to me
about it.
Therapist spoke to me about itand basically said, because I
was having a low risk pregnancy,she was happy to go ahead, but I
needed to inform my midwife.
So I had to tell my midwife whattherapy I was going through.
(19:13):
I had to tell my health workerwhat therapy I was going through
so they could just know becauseit is quite, it brings up
trauma.
So that's what you tap into thattrauma that you've experienced.
So, you know, everything thatyou had been feeling like, you
feel like that for your therapy.
And of course it's a high stresstherapy.
(19:35):
And when you're pregnant, youwant to be avoiding stress and
not getting yourself in thosestressful situations.
But with the therapy, you'reputting yourself back in that
stressful situation.
So I did, I think around eightsessions.
And I said to you, I did my lastsession on the Tuesday and then
(19:57):
I gave birth on the Sunday.
And so I just finished my lastsession and then and then, yeah,
gave birth.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Wow.
That is incredible.
And it's so, you know, the otherthing that is so interesting is
when you talk about the EMDRbeing, you know, like a high
stress form of therapy.
And it's actually quiteinteresting because obviously I,
like I said to you before, I'mlooking at this from the point
of hypnotherapy and where EMDRis important.
(20:28):
is brilliant.
And many of my colleagues usehypnotherapy and EMDR, and I use
tapping EFT and hypnotherapy inaddition to other tools.
But one of the things, one ofthe reasons why these therapies
are so effective is partlybecause of the fact that they
actually do what our bodies aredesigned to do, which is process
(20:51):
the emotion there and then.
to allow it to be released.
Whereas the challenge peopleoften find with talk therapy is
what you were saying, is youhave to build a connection.
You have to feel that you're ina space where you're not being
judged.
You have to be able to have allof these cognitive feelings.
So things that almost like sitin the first layer of our being
(21:14):
in order to be able to accessall of the deeper levels.
Whereas things like EMDR andhypnotherapy and tapping kind of
allow you to have a bettermind-body connection to help you
reframe those events, to helpyou really kind of feel more
connected.
And I don't like using the wordempowered but almost empowered
(21:36):
to understand it better.
I wonder if that's how you felt,really, if any of these things
that I'm saying resonate withyou.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
definitely.
I think I didn't know it at thetime, but you explaining that
makes a lot of sense of how Icouldn't get through processing
the emotion just by talkingbecause I knew what happened.
It was easy to talk about,but...
there was a much deeper level toit that I didn't understand how
it was still affecting me.
(22:06):
It was, you know, kind of get itoff my chest, talk to about
someone, you know, try andfigure out rationally what I
want to do.
But there's nothing likerational about it.
And when like these deep, deeptraumas happen to you because
also it's not like you've putyourself in a situation where
like I've made a mistake I'vedone wrong like he did what do I
(22:27):
need to figure out in my mindmoving forward it was very much
like I was not I don't want toplay the victim but there was
that kind of victim mentality toit or it was like this has been
something that's been happeningdone to me and you're gonna have
trauma when something isdirectly done to you that you
didn't want to happen um andthat you had no control over
(22:48):
happening and I feel like that'sthe hardest the hardest thing
about it it's kind of like justprocessing that and almost
understanding not why ithappened but I guess how it's
made you feel um and then howyou can like move on from how
that's made you feel in thefuture because you know there's
it's gonna it's always going tocome up you know there's still
(23:11):
there's still moments there'sstill days where you know
feelings and thoughts come upfor me now and I don't know how
long it will take before itdoesn't anymore but I feel like
it's going to be a long time andI feel like you know our
relationship is gonna you knowstill be like growing and
evolving over a long time aswell and you know I feel like
marriage is something that'sgoing to really solidify it um
(23:33):
and for me um you know makingthat commitment to each other
and that promise to each otherand of course not having a
family together I feel like Likethere is just many different
things that I feel like areslowly kind of healing that
relationship again for us.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Absolutely.
And I think it's so incrediblebecause of the fact that you're
talking about it.
I mean, seriously, I take my hatoff to you because it's not, you
know, this is something that'sstill very recent.
If we look at timelines, youkind of linear timelines,
whereas, you know, whereas forme, it took me almost 40 years
(24:09):
to really understand come toterms with and talk, actually be
in a space of being able totalk.
So I really do have to say thatis incredible.
So for all the different thingsthat you've kind of identified,
you say, obviously, you know,feelings do still come up,
thoughts, ideas, they're stillthere because there is a memory
(24:30):
imprint.
But how do you kind of seeyourself now in terms of what
you've learned about what'shappened?
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
So in my therapy experience, This is something
that we really focused on waskind of, you know, if you could
go back to that moment and saysomething to yourself, what
would you like say to yourselfin that moment to, you know,
help you move forward?
And my thing that I would say tomyself was that I did my best
because there's always a part ofblame that you put on yourself.
(24:59):
You know, could I have done thisdifferent?
Could I have done thatdifferent?
Could I have not noticed thatthis person was crying out for
help in this way?
Or, you know, how could I be sostupid to not know this or not
not see that or you know thesekind of things where you just
kind of put yourself down aboutit happening and so I think for
me something that I reallyneeded to focus on was I did my
(25:20):
best and there was nothing elsethat I could do so even in those
moments where I am having youknow thoughts I don't want to
have or feelings that I don'twant to have and pushing me kind
of back into that place I kindof just you know remind myself
you know I did my best and I'mdoing my best with the cards
that have been dealt and movingforward in a positive way.
(25:42):
And of course, my baby makes itso much easier because I know
that I wouldn't have him if thatdidn't happen to me.
We wouldn't have conceived ourbaby if...
that whole mess didn't happenand me and him weren't in this
crazy emotional turmoil togetherand, you know, had a surprise
(26:03):
baby out of it.
Those kind of things wouldn'thave happened if we weren't put
in that situation.
So he is the gift, I think,from, you know, going through
all of that together that we nowhave him.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Yeah, and what an incredible thing because, you
know, I firmly believe thatchildren are our biggest
teachers.
And it feels like as I'm hearingyou speak that, you know, he's
come along to show you thatactually you have a lot to learn
about you and that he's here tokind of help you kickstart all
(26:39):
of that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
And I think, I mean, for anybody that has, for any
woman that has been pregnant, Idon't know if this is everyone's
experience, but when I waspregnant, I had so many
realizations.
Like my brain, on a differentfrequency like i could just i
could just kind of reflect on alot of things that had happened
(27:01):
over the years that maybe ihadn't even thought about and
again i don't know if that'sbecause of the therapy because
my therapist did say Before thetherapy started, I want you to
write down every single traumathat has ever happened to you in
your life.
And even for me, that wassomething that I'd never thought
about.
You don't sit there and thinkabout all the traumas that have
ever happened to you fromchildhood.
You don't write them all down.
(27:22):
And she wanted me to rate themout of one to 10, how they
affect me now as an adult.
And that's just something thatyou don't do.
And even doing that exercise wasso difficult and made me really
emotional afterwards.
And because she said, when we'redoing this therapy, there's
going to be other things thatcome up and you might not know
(27:43):
that they're going to come upand you might not understand
them, but they will come up andIt could have been that things
were just coming up in mysubconscious that I didn't even
think of.
And my brain was just likeworking things out and
processing things.
And I was having just theserealizations of, ah, that's how
I felt in that situation.
And I didn't need to feel likethat.
Moving forward, I'm going to dothis next time.
(28:05):
And I don't know if that wasbeing pregnant and just feeling
kind of more like spiritual likespiritually connected with
everything and um you knowfeeling like that or if it was
the process of the therapy umjust you know working in the
background of lots of differentthings because I was I was just
thinking about just things wouldpop into my mind about people
(28:28):
just seeing people in their truelight or realizing things that
happened a long long time agoand just having a completely
different perspective on it andjust feeling like more empowered
and more strong um about loadsof different things that had
previously happened
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
wow and yeah I hear what you're saying and it sounds
like this whole and it couldwell be the combination of the
therapy and where you are yeah
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
um
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
But what I'm also hearing from you is usually when
you're pregnant and you may havegone through this as well.
So kind of let me let me knowwhat happened.
You know, being pregnant, youend up being so focused on the
physical body changes, you know,and the pressures of being or
(29:15):
looking a certain way.
But it sounds like what you weregoing through was so deep and so
kind of almost fifth dimensionalconnection, like an openness
that you almost were using thistime to really kind of almost
like create clarity into what'shappening in your world.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
yeah very much like and kind of like um i feel like
the curtains were kind of openedon a lot of different things
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
yeah i can we can hear baby in the background he
is obviously he's obviously youknow this is his appearance his
debut yeah um yeah and oh goshit's just so fascinating
listening to you and when you'reable to reflect on so many
different things and see themexactly like you say like the
(30:10):
curtains are opening the truthis there and then you come to
this recognition and thisrealization of where you stand
with it all that is trulyamazing and what an incredible
time to actually have all ofthis happen as well
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
yeah I know.
I feel like maybe a lot ofpeople have had that this year
for different reasons.
I think, you know, the world andlockdown and a lot of things are
coming to light.
And a lot of people have talkedabout this, how a lot of things
that were in the shadows arecoming to light, you know, in
many different ways.
Lots of different theories thatare out there and lots of
different spiritual things or,you know, people out there,
(30:50):
especially in the public eye andthings like that.
And I don't know, I just feellike maybe something was there
for everyone that you justneeded to like tap into a little
bit and because it wasn't justfor me in that kind of personal
sense I know that a lot ofpeople out there are saying you
know lots of things have come tolight this year particularly or
(31:11):
last year particularly and thatno one really expected I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
definitely definitely it has been it's
there's you know a significantshift and you know for me it's
it's this whole recognition ofthe fact that we are all part of
a collective consciousness andso everyone has their almost
like their part to play in thisand some people will kind of be
(31:39):
open to it on a different levelto to what you've experienced
and that's okay
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
yeah and then Throughout that whole process of
everything that was happening,obviously I'm talking to you
about it and whoever else islistening to this, but there are
still some people in my circle,in my close circle, in my family
that don't know that any of thishappened.
And I didn't want to telleverybody because I know that
(32:04):
when you tell someone something,you can't take it back and they
will never be able to forgetthat that happened.
Even if I've moved past it,We've moved past it.
I know that for other people,they will never be able to do
that.
So I was very deliberate withwho I told.
And yeah, a lot of them, myfamily, well, none of my family
(32:29):
know that any of this happened.
A few of my friends know.
And I feel like a few of myfriends' relationships have also
been jeopardized because theydidn't agree with my...
my kind of choices to stay inand work through things and move
(32:49):
forward
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
yeah and this is this is actually quite
significant actually and and infact this was actually what I
was going to ask you next iswhat has what has that been like
and and so in terms of you knowrelationships you know you're
saying that a lot of kind offamily relationships don't know,
but friends have actually saidthey don't agree with the way
(33:13):
that you're doing things.
Do they?
And obviously, you know, you canunderstand why, right?
Because when you see someone youlove get hurt immediately, you
just kind of want to stop it.
But if we were to kind of turnthat on its head, have the
choice that you've made toactually go through this process
(33:34):
and learn more about yourselfand help yourself find this kind
of stronger, steadier ground foryou.
How have they kind of seen thatfor you?
Or is it still very much thatthey just see you as a victim,
as someone who has been hurt andwronged?
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
Yeah, I think some people were seeing me like that
initially or seeing a situationlike that initially.
And now they're kind of likemaybe a little bit happy.
I don't know.
I guess they're happy that ithas worked out, but maybe
they're still like, skepticalbut I know for others that they
just don't want anything to dowith kind of like supporting
(34:16):
like our family you knowsupporting kind of us as a
couple and A really, reallyclose friend that I've been
friends with since I was reallyyoung, who was my bridesmaid
when I told her everything thathad happened and that we were
moving forward and the weddingwas going to go ahead.
She basically said, well, I'mnot going to be your bridesmaid.
(34:36):
And I said, well, you know,you're my bridesmaid for me.
That's, you know, you're thereto support me.
And you're not, obviously, youknow, it's not really anything
to do with you know, him, you'rethere to support me.
And she was basically saying,well, I just can't stand up
there and support you twogetting married.
And that really hurt because,you know, you can only do what
(35:00):
you think is right for you.
You can't pander to everyoneelse's opinions.
And I didn't, I just said, okay,that's fine.
If that's what you want to do,then that's what you want to do.
And I didn't kind of like beg orsay, oh no, please, please, what
can I do to make it better?
Or how, you know, I just said,okay, that's your choice.
That's what you want to do.
And I just left it.
And then a few months passed andI think she kind of came to her
(35:23):
senses and I saw that she wasbeing quite selfish and
basically kind of just actedlike she never said it and was
just kind of talking about beinga bridesmaid again.
And, you know, it does piss meoff that she said that.
And it does make me see her in adifferent light, I guess.
But she's being bridesmaidagain.
(35:43):
But I feel like our relationshipis definitely strained because
of all this, because she feelslike, I don't know, she, I
guess, thinks that her opinionmatters or that she's right and
I'm wrong or that, you know,she's foreseeing something that
is going to happen and that shejust doesn't agree with, you
(36:07):
know, what we're doing, I guess.
and even the sense of you knowhaving a baby the baby was
obviously not planned it was asurprise a gift a blessing and
even you know us having the babyshe's very much like you know
well how does he feel about it Iknow that you two weren't
planning on having a baby likenow you know I know you wanted
(36:30):
to wait like a good few yearsyou know kind of like I guess I
don't know if it's If it's goodintentions or, again, sceptical
of, you know, how we're reallyfeeling about having a baby
together.
And yeah, just all of thesethings that I'm still navigating
through at the minute, kind ofrelationships that I feel like
(36:52):
have been affected because ofit.
And I don't know if they everwill not be, but it just makes
me happy.
again so much more happy withthe choices that I made last
year to not tell my whole familywhat had happened and kind of
not keep it a secret but justkind of like put that barrier in
place and that boundary in placeto be like let me figure things
(37:13):
out first and then if x or ydoes happen I will then need to
share but when I'm still workingthings out I feel like this
doesn't need to be um you knowthe story of the year for
everybody that isn't directlyaffected with it because
obviously I did I did confinedin close friends for support and
(37:33):
unfortunately now I don't havethat same support because I
didn't make the choices thatthey that they would have taken
I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (37:41):
Wow that's so so that's incredibly difficult it's
incredibly difficult because IIt sounds like all you were
asking for at that time issomeone to hold space for you
while you worked this out.
And that's hard.
And the challenge in friendshipsis our kind of conditioned ideas
(38:02):
and programming of friendshipare not really about holding
space for another person whilethey go through their stuff.
And that's really, really tough.
But at the same time, you wereincredibly resourceful and were
able to identify things that youneeded to help you get through
this.
Because you said that you had avery clear decision, which was
(38:23):
you knew you wanted your baby.
And that sounds like it was thedriver for everything else.
And there were certain thingshere where it may not make sense
to everybody, but you were okaywith that while you were working
out whether it made sense to youor not.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, thestereotypical person would have
either said, well maybe notstereotypical but I guess their
opinions would have been youknow you've done me wrong my
ego's hurt my pride's hurt howcould you do this to me I'm
never trusting you again and youknow I'm walking away from my
future that I have built withyou and what I've known and what
(39:03):
I've you know committed to I'mwalking away from it and um and
then of course when we fellpregnant maybe some people would
have been like you know this isnot happening I'm not keeping
this baby you know and I justknew that he came along for a
reason you know and I feel likehe was definitely a driving
(39:25):
factor in the fact of hedeserves way more than to have a
um hostile environment andpeople that aren't happy and
people that haven't workedthings out and I definitely knew
before I gave birth to him thatI really really wanted to try
and work through as much of thetrauma as I could have um
(39:48):
because I knew that he didn'tdeserve to like be around me
when I was in that my headspaceI guess
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
I understand that I totally understand and Amy also
sounds like you know you're verythe fact that you're very open
it's you've accepted it soundslike that this is a journey it's
a process it's not like it'sdone and dusted it's not you
know it it's ongoing
SPEAKER_01 (40:12):
and I feel like that's something that my friends
like have struggled tounderstand as well they seem to
think like oh the baby's hereand the wedding's back on so you
know we're forgetting everythingthat's ever happened and that's
not it at all like you're still
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
moving forward hey how is the little man he sounds
like he's he's had enough ofthis now
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
I know.
Well, I think I've justdistracted him.
Or maybe not.
He's teething.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (40:44):
he's absolutely gorgeous.
So I'd like to round off, Amy,if that's okay.
And what I'd really kind of likeis what was that one big clear
insight moment for you wherethings just kind of went, no,
this is it.
This is the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
I think finding out I was pregnant.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
And I knew before I took the test.
I just knew.
So yeah, I think that moment forme was the moment where I was
like, okay, there is anotherperson that's going to be
involved in all of this, aninnocent person with all of
this.
So I think that was the momentthat I knew kind of, okay, this
is like a sign that things aregoing to be changing and moving
(41:32):
forward and I mean, it's taken alot of manifestation of, you
know, how I want to be, how Iwant his life to be right now
and how I want to move forward.
And it's, you know, it's been achoice to move forward in a
positive way.
It's been a choice to bring himinto the world, a choice to move
forward in a positive way, achoice to like work on our
(41:53):
relationship and ourselves andlike commit to, you know, And
I'm grateful that like, It didhappen because I know that if it
(42:16):
didn't happen, then I wouldn'thave him.
Like it's so easy to say, oh, Ijust wish I could turn back the
clock and none of this wouldhave happened.
But then again, I think, well, Iwouldn't have had him if none of
this had happened.
So it just doesn't make sense.
Like it had to happen for me tohave him.
Of
SPEAKER_00 (42:33):
course.
Yeah, no, I fully understandthat.
And you said the most kind ofpowerful thing is that you've
recognised that that you have achoice and that is the most
important thing.
Thank you so much, Amy, forjoining me.
UNKNOWN (42:54):
Thank you.
What was that one big clear insight moment for you
where things just kind of went,this is it, this is the moment?
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
I think finding out I was pregnant.
And I knew before I took thetest.
I just knew.
I think that moment for me wasthe moment where I was like,
okay, there is another personthat's going to be involved in
all of this.
You know, an innocent personwith all of this.
So I think that was the momentthat I knew kind of, okay, this
is like a sign that things aregoing to be, you know, changing
(00:30):
and moving forward.
And...
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm, human experience for
the conscious explorer.
(01:11):
Welcome to Eternal Paradigm.
Hello, Amy, tell me.
How are you?
And can you introduce yourselffor the listeners, please?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Yes, of course.
So my name's Amy.
I am 26 years old, turning 27 ina few weeks' time.
I met you via a teaching coursethat we were in together for a
few weeks, February 2020, wasn'tit?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (01:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
So I guess the last kind of normality we had.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Yes, it really was, right?
That those, it was theSaturdays.
Did we do Saturday and Sunday?
I've totally forgotten.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Just Saturdays.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
It was just Saturdays.
And it was where we were allcoming in, kind of all like
moaning about the trains.
Yeah.
The weather and all sorts.
Yeah.
And that was quite aninteresting course, an amazing
group as well.
So, Amy, we're talking today.
So what has kind of from thatpoint when we kind of were on
(02:24):
the course to now, what's beenhappening?
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
So I obviously lockdown happened.
I was followed for a few weeks,which was actually really,
really nice.
A lot had been happeningactually leading up to lockdown.
lockdown like personal stuff aswell not much to do I guess with
the big topic that we're goingto talk about today but just
some family things and somedeaths in the family and um just
(02:53):
sorting out some big things todo with that family member's
death and and supporting likevulnerable family members and
things like that so it was a Iwas quite actually relieved for
lockdown when it came I wasactually obviously we did the
teacher's course I was working alot I was traveling a lot for
work and then lockdown came andyeah I was kind of it was so
(03:15):
nice to have those few weeks offin the sunshine then I went back
to work but I was workingremotely from home all
throughout the summer weddinggot cancelled because of
lockdown.
So that was quite heartbreaking.
I'm sure lots of people had tocancel things and postpone
things and things like that.
(03:37):
And that was quite hard.
having to rearrange the weddingand try and get a new day and
try and move all of thesuppliers over that we wanted to
work with, like our florist andour band and photographer and
all those kind of people thatyou work with.
And then I fell pregnant inAugust.
(03:58):
So again, another big change.
I don't think we were inlockdown then, the lockdown had
just kind of ended when I fellpregnant, still working from
home until I went back into workfor a month between October and
November and then lockdownhappened again and then I was
back working from home until Iwent on maternity leave and also
(04:21):
in the September time AugustSeptember time just after I
found out I was pregnant I alsocompleted my assessor's
qualification as well so we didthe teaching course together and
then I did my assessor'squalification remotely as well
over a few months I did thatwhile pregnant too so that's
(04:42):
really and then obviously I hadmy baby in April and then just
been in mum mode I guess sincethen for these last few months
that he's been alive
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
that is incredible so it's like I'm really sorry to
hear about about the familymember passed away so that is
never easy but what I want toask you about your wedding
because when we were on thetraining course together yeah
you the presentation that youdid was all about leaf
(05:16):
preservation and flowerpreservation and the reason I
bring this up is because youwere actually planning, you were
doing this, you'd been foragingleaves for how long and what
happened?
Yeah
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
so we started foraging in early autumn a year
before because we needed toforage, we needed to preserve to
have them before the wedding andwe wouldn't have had time to
start foraging and preservingbecause the wedding was in
October.
So we just wouldn't have had thetime before.
So we had to do it a year prior.
Then we found out, obviously weneed to postpone for a year.
(05:54):
So now the leaves are two yearsold that we foraged and
preserved.
I last got them out last year.
We did some like decorating forlike autumn at home.
And we put them out on ourmantel with some gourds and some
pumpkins and stuff.
And they still looked fine.
I haven't checked them sincethen.
(06:16):
Been too busy.
But I just think if they're notperfect, then I just need to...
not use them because there's notime now to do foraging and
preserving again beforehand butyeah I love
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
that I love that because after that obviously I
came home and that's exactlywhat we did I did that with the
kids for like every weekbrilliant absolutely brilliant
and it's such an added personaltouch right
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
I know it would be really sad if we can't use it
because it was like a reallycreative thing that we got like
to add in but you know just haveto roll with it if we can't use
them for the decoration
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
yeah yeah I hear you I hear you and so so obviously
like you said you know thewedding having to kind of not
happen at that point movingthings around what what is
happening now because thewedding didn't happen but you
ended up with another amazingsurprise
SPEAKER_01 (07:13):
yeah exactly so instead of getting married we
had a baby instead yeah ofcourse and and now our baby will
be at our wedding which is justcrazy to think like when we were
planning because we've been inwe would have been engaged two
years before we got married andso from the engagement to the
wedding you know it was twoyears planning and like when we
(07:36):
started planning planning afterthe engagement I would never
would have thought that we'dhave like our baby at the
wedding um you know you thinkyou see that kind of like years
and years down the road so yeahit's um it's worked out
obviously how it was meant towork out so he was meant to be
there with us so I'm reallylooking forward to having him
there on day start having tothink about different logistical
(07:58):
things who's going to have himin the evening how am I going to
breastfeed him who's going toyou know be looking after him in
the day when we're busy and So,yeah, we need to think about how
to navigate a wedding with aseven month old baby as well.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Oh, but yes, obviously he wants to know that
he's arrived.
So he's definitely letting youknow.
So let's kind of move on to whatwe are really talking about,
which is which I'm going to cometo in a minute, actually,
because I think it's it's reallyimportant for me to say when we
(08:33):
were actually on the course thatwe did together.
I remember distinctly that whenwe both gave our presentations,
the feedback that we got fromthe group was that we were both
incredibly calm and collected atthe way that we delivered.
And just generally how we are aspeople, as who we are, we're
very, you know, you're so calm.
(08:55):
I remember meeting you and youwere just like, so with it, so
together.
And it's interesting becausethat has actually kind of, it's
the opposite of what we'reactually talking about today.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
And
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
it's something that we have our own kind of story to
tell about.
So we are talking about bodytrauma and trauma in the context
of your lived experience of it.
And you've just kind of roundedup all the things that have
happened in the past kind ofsince we started.
(09:29):
met at the beginning of 2020 towhere we are now and there have
been lots of pivots and turnsand changes and lots of things
have happened but while thatwhole process has been happening
you've still had to come back toaddress and readdress body
trauma and if you're if youwould basically be open to share
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
what happened obviously you know feeling
totally comfortable yeah go forit
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
yeah So obviously, I've given you the synopsis of,
I guess, what's happened sincewe last saw each other.
But there is another big, hugething that did happen in that
year that was, I guess, thereason for the trauma.
And of course, like it isinvolving other people.
So I can't go into too manydetails and things like that.
(10:20):
But I know also this is how weconceived our son as well um
because of this I don't thinkthat we would have had our baby
if all of this hadn't havehappened which I think I like to
look at it it is that kind ofangle as well so in lockdown I
think it was around July timejust before I got pregnant me so
(10:44):
obviously we'd spend the weddingwedding wasn't going ahead
things like that and the Sorry,in July time.
It's okay, take your time, takeyour
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
time.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
absolutely fine.
My fiancé was going throughquite a hard time for many
different reasons, currentsituations, job losses.
But also I think, you know, newchapter of life that was about
to start that then wasn'thappening and self-esteem issues
and trauma from childhood thathadn't been dealt with and lots
(11:18):
of different things.
And basically self-sabotaged ourrelationship and basically
cheated on me.
And I found out straight away, Iactually caught it happening,
which was a huge trauma initself.
being in that situation andwitnessing it and then of course
(11:40):
having that feedback loop inyour mind you know remembering
that happening so of course weneeded to work out what we were
going to do were we going tomove forward with the wedding we
know we knew we were postponingit anyway because of lockdown
but you know what were we goingto do we were going to move
forward what we're going tobreak up he immediately was
(12:01):
saying that he was going to gointo therapy work through the
issues that he had reassured methat it was nothing you know to
do with our relationship or meand that this was like an issue
that he has um and of course hejust went about you know
self-sabotaging and jeopardizingour relationship in the worst
(12:22):
way that he could have donebecause he didn't feel like he
was worthy of having that andwhich I think a lot of people
can relate to maybe notspecifically that but in other
areas of their life when theyself-sabotage whether it's a job
interview or a familyrelationship or a romantic
relationship or things likethat.
So I also agreed that I neededto do some therapy because I was
(12:48):
harboring a lot of anger and myself-esteem was extremely low.
I just thought, you know, I needto talk to someone to see if I
can move past this as well.
And I was in, I did someopen-ended talk therapy for
about eight sessions straightafter this happened as well.
Of course, you're reconnectingand trying to figure things out,
you know, your head's all overthe place.
(13:10):
That's when we actuallyconceived our baby so thrown
into the mix our relationship isup in the air then I find out
I'm pregnant and instinctively Iknew that I was going to keep my
baby I didn't want to not havemy baby even though it wasn't
the ideal situation and I didn'tknow what the future held for me
(13:34):
and him I knew that I was goingto keep the baby so whether I
was going to be doing it aloneor with him So that was another
huge kind of weight that was onmy shoulders.
And just lots and lots ofthings, I guess, to think about
and try and work through.
So my therapist that I had forthe eight sessions, the talking
(13:55):
therapist, she was actually thefirst person that I told that I
was pregnant to.
I hadn't told anybody.
And unfortunately, I didn't havethe best therapist-client
relationship with her.
I found her quite judgmental.
She...
I don't know, I just didn't gelwith her and I didn't really
feel like I was getting thesupport that I needed.
(14:16):
Again, it's so hard to knowwhether it was hormones raging
from my body or if it was both,if it was hormones raging from
my body and all this trauma thatI was harbouring that I hadn't
been able to get rid of and dealwith.
And I was basically justspiralling worse and worse with
(14:36):
this trauma.
Our relationship wasn't movingforward in a positive way.
He was doing his work, but Iwasn't doing the work that I
needed to do to help us moveforward.
So I...
Can
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I just ask you, because I'm listening to what
you're saying and you said justa little while ago how there
were so many different thingsthat you almost like...
Did you understand immediatelythat your fiancé was...
acting out because of unresolvedthings okay so that in itself
(15:12):
has been a process because nowyou're also talking about
understanding that you had to dothe work because he was doing
the work because that's a bigkind of to understand that is
quite big you know and so butyeah sorry carry on you're
saying so
SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
Yeah, I was spiraling worse and worse and I
was feeling worse and worseabout myself.
And I was feeling worse andworse about our future, our
relationship.
I was giving him mixed signals.
I was being hot and cold.
I was, one day I was, you know,being really positive about us
moving forward together.
The next day I would be, youknow, basically saying this is
never going to work.
And, you know, I know we'rehaving a baby together, but
(15:51):
basically I don't think that I'mever going to be able to trust
you or move forward with you or,you know, be...
happy with you again I guess andum for the first month of my
pregnancy we weren't livingtogether he had moved out um
after and the incident happenedbefore I fell pregnant then he
still wasn't we weren't livingtogether for the first month of
(16:14):
the pregnancy then we startedliving together again and I
think when you're just harboringso much resentment towards
someone and so much anger justliving in a small space with
them obviously he wasn't workingand because of lockdown and I
was working from home.
So we were constantly on top ofeach other as well.
(16:34):
So I just feel like there wasjust lots and lots of things
brewing and it was just, yeah,it was just really, really tough
and I wasn't handling it in apositive way at all.
I YouTubed just kind of what Iwas feeling like.
I guess I've just tried tosearch for some videos out there
And I came across a video thatwas basically all about betrayal
(16:58):
trauma and all of the symptomsthat you're suffering with if
you are experiencing betrayaltrauma.
And I was experiencing all ofthem.
And we're talking about physicaltrauma in the body because you
do feel those physical emotionsin your body as if you were
actually there.
So all of the sensations I feltwhen I was there, when I was
(17:19):
there, shocked by, you know,what I had uncovered.
It was like those emotions andthose feelings hadn't left my
body.
So I was constantly kind oftrapped in that cycle.
And then, of course, they werein my mind.
I was thinking about it everyday, reliving details of it,
just kind of like playing itback as if I was in that same
situation every single day.
And then I referred myself toMind Matters in Surrey.
(17:44):
My first therapy was throughprivate healthcare for my work.
And then my second time havingmore therapy was through NHS.
So I referred myself throughMind Matters to the NHS and
through like learning aboutbetrayal trauma, I learned that
the best type of therapy is theEMDR therapy.
And I had no clue what it was,but I knew it was similar to the
(18:06):
emotional freedom technique withthe tapping, which I had done
before.
Just like by myself, not througha therapist or anything, just
discovered tapping along the waya few years ago and would just
like incorporate it sometimeswhen feeling anxious about
certain things so I said to thelady on the phone who was doing
my consultation I really want totry out this EMDR therapy told
(18:30):
her everything that had happenedall the details how I was
feeling she went through likethe scale of like unlikely, very
likely with me about how I'mfeeling about different
situations.
And she agreed that I was likesuffering with like some mild
PTSD and other types of trauma.
And she said that there is veryfew therapists on the NHS who do
(18:53):
the EMDR.
And of course, I was newlypregnant as well.
So she said she'd had thetherapist have to talk to me
about it.
Therapist spoke to me about itand basically said, because I
was having a low risk pregnancy,she was happy to go ahead, but I
needed to inform my midwife.
So I had to tell my midwife whattherapy I was going through.
(19:13):
I had to tell my health workerwhat therapy I was going through
so they could just know becauseit is quite, it brings up
trauma.
So that's what you tap into thattrauma that you've experienced.
So, you know, everything thatyou had been feeling like, you
feel like that for your therapy.
And of course it's a high stresstherapy.
(19:35):
And when you're pregnant, youwant to be avoiding stress and
not getting yourself in thosestressful situations.
But with the therapy, you'reputting yourself back in that
stressful situation.
So I did, I think around eightsessions.
And I said to you, I did my lastsession on the Tuesday and then
(19:57):
I gave birth on the Sunday.
And so I just finished my lastsession and then and then, yeah,
gave birth.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Wow.
That is incredible.
And it's so, you know, the otherthing that is so interesting is
when you talk about the EMDRbeing, you know, like a high
stress form of therapy.
And it's actually quiteinteresting because obviously I,
like I said to you before, I'mlooking at this from the point
of hypnotherapy and where EMDRis important.
(20:28):
is brilliant.
And many of my colleagues usehypnotherapy and EMDR, and I use
tapping EFT and hypnotherapy inaddition to other tools.
But one of the things, one ofthe reasons why these therapies
are so effective is partlybecause of the fact that they
actually do what our bodies aredesigned to do, which is process
(20:51):
the emotion there and then.
to allow it to be released.
Whereas the challenge peopleoften find with talk therapy is
what you were saying, is youhave to build a connection.
You have to feel that you're ina space where you're not being
judged.
You have to be able to have allof these cognitive feelings.
So things that almost like sitin the first layer of our being
(21:14):
in order to be able to accessall of the deeper levels.
Whereas things like EMDR andhypnotherapy and tapping kind of
allow you to have a bettermind-body connection to help you
reframe those events, to helpyou really kind of feel more
connected.
And I don't like using the wordempowered but almost empowered
(21:36):
to understand it better.
I wonder if that's how you felt,really, if any of these things
that I'm saying resonate withyou.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
definitely.
I think I didn't know it at thetime, but you explaining that
makes a lot of sense of how Icouldn't get through processing
the emotion just by talkingbecause I knew what happened.
It was easy to talk about,but...
there was a much deeper level toit that I didn't understand how
it was still affecting me.
(22:06):
It was, you know, kind of get itoff my chest, talk to about
someone, you know, try andfigure out rationally what I
want to do.
But there's nothing likerational about it.
And when like these deep, deeptraumas happen to you because
also it's not like you've putyourself in a situation where
like I've made a mistake I'vedone wrong like he did what do I
(22:27):
need to figure out in my mindmoving forward it was very much
like I was not I don't want toplay the victim but there was
that kind of victim mentality toit or it was like this has been
something that's been happeningdone to me and you're gonna have
trauma when something isdirectly done to you that you
didn't want to happen um andthat you had no control over
(22:48):
happening and I feel like that'sthe hardest the hardest thing
about it it's kind of like justprocessing that and almost
understanding not why ithappened but I guess how it's
made you feel um and then howyou can like move on from how
that's made you feel in thefuture because you know there's
it's gonna it's always going tocome up you know there's still
(23:11):
there's still moments there'sstill days where you know
feelings and thoughts come upfor me now and I don't know how
long it will take before itdoesn't anymore but I feel like
it's going to be a long time andI feel like you know our
relationship is gonna you knowstill be like growing and
evolving over a long time aswell and you know I feel like
marriage is something that'sgoing to really solidify it um
(23:33):
and for me um you know makingthat commitment to each other
and that promise to each otherand of course not having a
family together I feel like Likethere is just many different
things that I feel like areslowly kind of healing that
relationship again for us.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Absolutely.
And I think it's so incrediblebecause of the fact that you're
talking about it.
I mean, seriously, I take my hatoff to you because it's not, you
know, this is something that'sstill very recent.
If we look at timelines, youkind of linear timelines,
whereas, you know, whereas forme, it took me almost 40 years
(24:09):
to really understand come toterms with and talk, actually be
in a space of being able totalk.
So I really do have to say thatis incredible.
So for all the different thingsthat you've kind of identified,
you say, obviously, you know,feelings do still come up,
thoughts, ideas, they're stillthere because there is a memory
(24:30):
imprint.
But how do you kind of seeyourself now in terms of what
you've learned about what'shappened?
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
So in my therapy experience, This is something
that we really focused on waskind of, you know, if you could
go back to that moment and saysomething to yourself, what
would you like say to yourselfin that moment to, you know,
help you move forward?
And my thing that I would say tomyself was that I did my best
because there's always a part ofblame that you put on yourself.
(24:59):
You know, could I have done thisdifferent?
Could I have done thatdifferent?
Could I have not noticed thatthis person was crying out for
help in this way?
Or, you know, how could I be sostupid to not know this or not
not see that or you know thesekind of things where you just
kind of put yourself down aboutit happening and so I think for
me something that I reallyneeded to focus on was I did my
(25:20):
best and there was nothing elsethat I could do so even in those
moments where I am having youknow thoughts I don't want to
have or feelings that I don'twant to have and pushing me kind
of back into that place I kindof just you know remind myself
you know I did my best and I'mdoing my best with the cards
that have been dealt and movingforward in a positive way.
(25:42):
And of course, my baby makes itso much easier because I know
that I wouldn't have him if thatdidn't happen to me.
We wouldn't have conceived ourbaby if...
that whole mess didn't happenand me and him weren't in this
crazy emotional turmoil togetherand, you know, had a surprise
(26:03):
baby out of it.
Those kind of things wouldn'thave happened if we weren't put
in that situation.
So he is the gift, I think,from, you know, going through
all of that together that we nowhave him.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Yeah, and what an incredible thing because, you
know, I firmly believe thatchildren are our biggest
teachers.
And it feels like as I'm hearingyou speak that, you know, he's
come along to show you thatactually you have a lot to learn
about you and that he's here tokind of help you kickstart all
(26:39):
of that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
And I think, I mean, for anybody that has, for any
woman that has been pregnant, Idon't know if this is everyone's
experience, but when I waspregnant, I had so many
realizations.
Like my brain, on a differentfrequency like i could just i
could just kind of reflect on alot of things that had happened
(27:01):
over the years that maybe ihadn't even thought about and
again i don't know if that'sbecause of the therapy because
my therapist did say Before thetherapy started, I want you to
write down every single traumathat has ever happened to you in
your life.
And even for me, that wassomething that I'd never thought
about.
You don't sit there and thinkabout all the traumas that have
ever happened to you fromchildhood.
You don't write them all down.
(27:22):
And she wanted me to rate themout of one to 10, how they
affect me now as an adult.
And that's just something thatyou don't do.
And even doing that exercise wasso difficult and made me really
emotional afterwards.
And because she said, when we'redoing this therapy, there's
going to be other things thatcome up and you might not know
(27:43):
that they're going to come upand you might not understand
them, but they will come up andIt could have been that things
were just coming up in mysubconscious that I didn't even
think of.
And my brain was just likeworking things out and
processing things.
And I was having just theserealizations of, ah, that's how
I felt in that situation.
And I didn't need to feel likethat.
Moving forward, I'm going to dothis next time.
(28:05):
And I don't know if that wasbeing pregnant and just feeling
kind of more like spiritual likespiritually connected with
everything and um you knowfeeling like that or if it was
the process of the therapy umjust you know working in the
background of lots of differentthings because I was I was just
thinking about just things wouldpop into my mind about people
(28:28):
just seeing people in their truelight or realizing things that
happened a long long time agoand just having a completely
different perspective on it andjust feeling like more empowered
and more strong um about loadsof different things that had
previously happened
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
wow and yeah I hear what you're saying and it sounds
like this whole and it couldwell be the combination of the
therapy and where you are yeah
SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
um
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
But what I'm also hearing from you is usually when
you're pregnant and you may havegone through this as well.
So kind of let me let me knowwhat happened.
You know, being pregnant, youend up being so focused on the
physical body changes, you know,and the pressures of being or
(29:15):
looking a certain way.
But it sounds like what you weregoing through was so deep and so
kind of almost fifth dimensionalconnection, like an openness
that you almost were using thistime to really kind of almost
like create clarity into what'shappening in your world.
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
yeah very much like and kind of like um i feel like
the curtains were kind of openedon a lot of different things
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
yeah i can we can hear baby in the background he
is obviously he's obviously youknow this is his appearance his
debut yeah um yeah and oh goshit's just so fascinating
listening to you and when you'reable to reflect on so many
different things and see themexactly like you say like the
(30:10):
curtains are opening the truthis there and then you come to
this recognition and thisrealization of where you stand
with it all that is trulyamazing and what an incredible
time to actually have all ofthis happen as well
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
yeah I know.
I feel like maybe a lot ofpeople have had that this year
for different reasons.
I think, you know, the world andlockdown and a lot of things are
coming to light.
And a lot of people have talkedabout this, how a lot of things
that were in the shadows arecoming to light, you know, in
many different ways.
Lots of different theories thatare out there and lots of
different spiritual things or,you know, people out there,
(30:50):
especially in the public eye andthings like that.
And I don't know, I just feellike maybe something was there
for everyone that you justneeded to like tap into a little
bit and because it wasn't justfor me in that kind of personal
sense I know that a lot ofpeople out there are saying you
know lots of things have come tolight this year particularly or
(31:11):
last year particularly and thatno one really expected I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
definitely definitely it has been it's
there's you know a significantshift and you know for me it's
it's this whole recognition ofthe fact that we are all part of
a collective consciousness andso everyone has their almost
like their part to play in thisand some people will kind of be
(31:39):
open to it on a different levelto to what you've experienced
and that's okay
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
yeah and then Throughout that whole process of
everything that was happening,obviously I'm talking to you
about it and whoever else islistening to this, but there are
still some people in my circle,in my close circle, in my family
that don't know that any of thishappened.
And I didn't want to telleverybody because I know that
(32:04):
when you tell someone something,you can't take it back and they
will never be able to forgetthat that happened.
Even if I've moved past it,We've moved past it.
I know that for other people,they will never be able to do
that.
So I was very deliberate withwho I told.
And yeah, a lot of them, myfamily, well, none of my family
(32:29):
know that any of this happened.
A few of my friends know.
And I feel like a few of myfriends' relationships have also
been jeopardized because theydidn't agree with my...
my kind of choices to stay inand work through things and move
(32:49):
forward
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
yeah and this is this is actually quite
significant actually and and infact this was actually what I
was going to ask you next iswhat has what has that been like
and and so in terms of you knowrelationships you know you're
saying that a lot of kind offamily relationships don't know,
but friends have actually saidthey don't agree with the way
(33:13):
that you're doing things.
Do they?
And obviously, you know, you canunderstand why, right?
Because when you see someone youlove get hurt immediately, you
just kind of want to stop it.
But if we were to kind of turnthat on its head, have the
choice that you've made toactually go through this process
(33:34):
and learn more about yourselfand help yourself find this kind
of stronger, steadier ground foryou.
How have they kind of seen thatfor you?
Or is it still very much thatthey just see you as a victim,
as someone who has been hurt andwronged?
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
Yeah, I think some people were seeing me like that
initially or seeing a situationlike that initially.
And now they're kind of likemaybe a little bit happy.
I don't know.
I guess they're happy that ithas worked out, but maybe
they're still like, skepticalbut I know for others that they
just don't want anything to dowith kind of like supporting
(34:16):
like our family you knowsupporting kind of us as a
couple and A really, reallyclose friend that I've been
friends with since I was reallyyoung, who was my bridesmaid
when I told her everything thathad happened and that we were
moving forward and the weddingwas going to go ahead.
She basically said, well, I'mnot going to be your bridesmaid.
(34:36):
And I said, well, you know,you're my bridesmaid for me.
That's, you know, you're thereto support me.
And you're not, obviously, youknow, it's not really anything
to do with you know, him, you'rethere to support me.
And she was basically saying,well, I just can't stand up
there and support you twogetting married.
And that really hurt because,you know, you can only do what
(35:00):
you think is right for you.
You can't pander to everyoneelse's opinions.
And I didn't, I just said, okay,that's fine.
If that's what you want to do,then that's what you want to do.
And I didn't kind of like beg orsay, oh no, please, please, what
can I do to make it better?
Or how, you know, I just said,okay, that's your choice.
That's what you want to do.
And I just left it.
And then a few months passed andI think she kind of came to her
(35:23):
senses and I saw that she wasbeing quite selfish and
basically kind of just actedlike she never said it and was
just kind of talking about beinga bridesmaid again.
And, you know, it does piss meoff that she said that.
And it does make me see her in adifferent light, I guess.
But she's being bridesmaidagain.
(35:43):
But I feel like our relationshipis definitely strained because
of all this, because she feelslike, I don't know, she, I
guess, thinks that her opinionmatters or that she's right and
I'm wrong or that, you know,she's foreseeing something that
is going to happen and that shejust doesn't agree with, you
(36:07):
know, what we're doing, I guess.
and even the sense of you knowhaving a baby the baby was
obviously not planned it was asurprise a gift a blessing and
even you know us having the babyshe's very much like you know
well how does he feel about it Iknow that you two weren't
planning on having a baby likenow you know I know you wanted
(36:30):
to wait like a good few yearsyou know kind of like I guess I
don't know if it's If it's goodintentions or, again, sceptical
of, you know, how we're reallyfeeling about having a baby
together.
And yeah, just all of thesethings that I'm still navigating
through at the minute, kind ofrelationships that I feel like
(36:52):
have been affected because ofit.
And I don't know if they everwill not be, but it just makes
me happy.
again so much more happy withthe choices that I made last
year to not tell my whole familywhat had happened and kind of
not keep it a secret but justkind of like put that barrier in
place and that boundary in placeto be like let me figure things
(37:13):
out first and then if x or ydoes happen I will then need to
share but when I'm still workingthings out I feel like this
doesn't need to be um you knowthe story of the year for
everybody that isn't directlyaffected with it because
obviously I did I did confinedin close friends for support and
(37:33):
unfortunately now I don't havethat same support because I
didn't make the choices thatthey that they would have taken
I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (37:41):
Wow that's so so that's incredibly difficult it's
incredibly difficult because IIt sounds like all you were
asking for at that time issomeone to hold space for you
while you worked this out.
And that's hard.
And the challenge in friendshipsis our kind of conditioned ideas
(38:02):
and programming of friendshipare not really about holding
space for another person whilethey go through their stuff.
And that's really, really tough.
But at the same time, you wereincredibly resourceful and were
able to identify things that youneeded to help you get through
this.
Because you said that you had avery clear decision, which was
(38:23):
you knew you wanted your baby.
And that sounds like it was thedriver for everything else.
And there were certain thingshere where it may not make sense
to everybody, but you were okaywith that while you were working
out whether it made sense to youor not.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, thestereotypical person would have
either said, well maybe notstereotypical but I guess their
opinions would have been youknow you've done me wrong my
ego's hurt my pride's hurt howcould you do this to me I'm
never trusting you again and youknow I'm walking away from my
future that I have built withyou and what I've known and what
(39:03):
I've you know committed to I'mwalking away from it and um and
then of course when we fellpregnant maybe some people would
have been like you know this isnot happening I'm not keeping
this baby you know and I justknew that he came along for a
reason you know and I feel likehe was definitely a driving
(39:25):
factor in the fact of hedeserves way more than to have a
um hostile environment andpeople that aren't happy and
people that haven't workedthings out and I definitely knew
before I gave birth to him thatI really really wanted to try
and work through as much of thetrauma as I could have um
(39:48):
because I knew that he didn'tdeserve to like be around me
when I was in that my headspaceI guess
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
I understand that I totally understand and Amy also
sounds like you know you're verythe fact that you're very open
it's you've accepted it soundslike that this is a journey it's
a process it's not like it'sdone and dusted it's not you
know it it's ongoing
SPEAKER_01 (40:12):
and I feel like that's something that my friends
like have struggled tounderstand as well they seem to
think like oh the baby's hereand the wedding's back on so you
know we're forgetting everythingthat's ever happened and that's
not it at all like you're still
SPEAKER_00 (40:28):
moving forward hey how is the little man he sounds
like he's he's had enough ofthis now
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
I know.
Well, I think I've justdistracted him.
Or maybe not.
He's teething.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (40:44):
he's absolutely gorgeous.
So I'd like to round off, Amy,if that's okay.
And what I'd really kind of likeis what was that one big clear
insight moment for you wherethings just kind of went, no,
this is it.
This is the moment.
SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
I think finding out I was pregnant.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
And I knew before I took the test.
I just knew.
So yeah, I think that moment forme was the moment where I was
like, okay, there is anotherperson that's going to be
involved in all of this, aninnocent person with all of
this.
So I think that was the momentthat I knew kind of, okay, this
is like a sign that things aregoing to be changing and moving
(41:32):
forward and I mean, it's taken alot of manifestation of, you
know, how I want to be, how Iwant his life to be right now
and how I want to move forward.
And it's, you know, it's been achoice to move forward in a
positive way.
It's been a choice to bring himinto the world, a choice to move
forward in a positive way, achoice to like work on our
(41:53):
relationship and ourselves andlike commit to, you know, And
I'm grateful that like, It didhappen because I know that if it
(42:16):
didn't happen, then I wouldn'thave him.
Like it's so easy to say, oh, Ijust wish I could turn back the
clock and none of this wouldhave happened.
But then again, I think, well, Iwouldn't have had him if none of
this had happened.
So it just doesn't make sense.
Like it had to happen for me tohave him.
Of
SPEAKER_00 (42:33):
course.
Yeah, no, I fully understandthat.
And you said the most kind ofpowerful thing is that you've
recognised that that you have achoice and that is the most
important thing.
Thank you so much, Amy, forjoining me.
UNKNOWN (42:54):
Thank you.
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