May 1, 2025 • 33 mins
A spiritual wildfire that began in a humble livery stable on Azusa Street has transformed into a global movement of over 700 million believers. How did an obscure, often misunderstood expression of Christianity become the fastest-growing religious movement of the 20th century?
Dr. Billy Wilson, President of Oral Roberts University and Chair of the Pentecostal World Fellowship, takes us on a fascinating journey through the remarkable history of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement. From its roots in the American Holiness movement to the pivotal Azusa Street Revival of 1906, Wilson reveals how a hunger for divine empowerment sparked a revival that would ultimately touch every nation on earth.
What makes this conversation particularly illuminating is Wilson's explanation of how Pentecostalism bridged two worlds within Christianity—combining the cerebral, scripture-focused faith of the Reformation with the mysterious, experiential elements that had been more associated with Catholicism. This synthesis helps explain why the movement spread so rapidly across diverse cultural contexts, particularly in the Global South.
The conversation explores several "waves" of Spirit-empowerment: classical Pentecostalism, the Charismatic Renewal that crossed denominational boundaries in the 1960s-70s, and the emergence of global networks and new expressions. Most exciting is Wilson's perspective on what may be a fourth wave emerging today—a movement led by young people hungry for authentic spiritual experience without performance or hype, connected through global youth culture and technology.
Against misconceptions that Pentecostals focus solely on spiritual experiences while neglecting social concerns, Wilson highlights the movement's long history of community engagement, from disaster relief to addiction recovery programs. He also shares how diverse streams within the movement are finding new unity through relationship-building and shared mission, particularly around reaching every person with the gospel by 2033.
Whether you're deeply familiar with Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity or curious about this influential movement, this episode offers rich historical context, theological insights, and a compelling vision for Spirit-empowered faith in the 21st century.
You can learn more from Dr. Billy Wilson through his books and find him on Facebook and Instagram.
And you can share this episode using hashtag #Evangelical360 and join the conversation online!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brain Stiller (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, brian Stiller,and I'm pleased to share with
you another conversation withleaders, changemakers,
influencers impacting Christianlife around the world.
We'd love for you to be a partof the podcast by sharing this
episode using hashtagEvangelical360 and by joining
(00:33):
the conversation on YouTube inthe comments below.
My guest today is Dr BillyWilson, president of Oral
Roberts University and Chair ofthe Pentecostal World Fellowship
and Empowered 21, a globalPentecostal charismatic network.
In just over a century, whatbegan as an uneducated and
(00:53):
obscure Christian communityquickly caught fire and
multiplied around the world,becoming the primary influence
of 20th century Protestantism,which begs the question how did
the Pentecostal and Charismaticmovement come about?
What historical void or vacancyled the Church to such a unique
(01:14):
emphasis on the Holy Spirit andthe empowerment of millions of
Christians worldwide?
Listen in as Dr Wilson shareswith us the remarkable history
and heritage.
Dr Billy Wilson, what a joy tohave you on Evangelical 360
(01:37):
today.
Welcome.
Billy Wilson (01:38):
Yeah, thank you, brian.
It's great to be with you andwe're just honored.
I appreciate your leadership sovery much over the years, and
so I'm excited about ourconversation today.
Brain Stiller (01:47):
Well, billy, you have just by your leadership.
In my view you're kind of MrPentecost globally, president of
Oral Roberts University, chairof major Pentecostal networks
and associations, works andassociations.
(02:09):
But I'm interested in knowingwhat happened a little over a
century ago that brought intobeing this world Pentecostal
charismatic movement which, nextto the Roman Catholics, would
be the largest single groupingwithin the world Christian
community.
How did that happen?
Billy Wilson (02:21):
Well, obviously it was sovereign work of God, I
think, brian, but some of thehistorical details you know in
the 1800s and 19th century, whatwould have been termed by
theologians, sociologists, etc.
Especially religioussociologists, would have been
the holiness movement Sweepingacross America and around the
world really was a focus onholiness, accompanied by camp
(02:44):
meetings and a lot of differentministries that came into focus.
During that day, a lot ofthings happened.
A great evangelist rose,missionary movements were
happening, etc.
And out of that began to grow adesire for more of God, more of
the Holy Spirit, more powerfrom God.
And then, emerging from the1800s to the 1900s, 19th century
(03:06):
to the 20th century, a numberof things began to take place.
A teacher by the name ofCharles Parham and a group of
students that were in a schoolthat he was leading in Topeka,
kansas, began to do a study.
The study really focused aroundwhat happens when a person is
filled with the Holy Spirit andhow do we know really know that
(03:27):
we're full of the Holy Spirit?
The students did a study,Parham himself was doing a study
and they arrived on the wholeidea of subsequent baptism to
conversion tongue speech as oneof the prominent signs of being
baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on a young ladythe very first day of 1901, and
(03:47):
she received this gift andbegan to speak in other
languages, and Parham's teachingthen began to spread.
In fact, there was a partiallyblind black gentleman in Houston
, texas.
That was his Parham school.
There he sat in the hallwaybecause of Jim Crow laws and
prejudiced against Somewhatuneducated but very hungry for
(04:08):
God.
His name was William Seymour.
Seymour heard this message thatthere is a fullness of the Holy
Spirit, that subsequent toconversion and knowing Christ,
you can be made holy and you canbe filled with the Holy Spirit,
and when you are, you'llexperience this glossolalia
tongue speech or zelalalia, evenspeaking in some known language
(04:31):
that you have never heardbefore or don't know before.
Seymour picked that message upand adopted it as his own and
was called to a church in LosAngeles, a Baptist church,
actually, to be their pastor.
When he got to the Baptistchurch in Los Angeles, he
started preaching this messagefrom Charles Parham's teaching
and the church sort of flippedout.
In fact, after a couple ofservices with Seymour, they
(04:53):
locked him out of the building.
They changed the locks on thedoors and though he was named
pastor, he couldn't get back inthe building.
So he and about 10 people fromthat congregation that had heard
his message and believed thatthere was more of God and that
they wanted this power of theHoly Spirit began to meet in a
home.
The home was on a street calledBonnie Bray Street in Los
(05:13):
Angeles.
The home is still standingthere today, by the way.
It's a museum that's curated bythe Church of God in Christ,
and they began to pray together.
They went on a 10-day fast andin the middle of that 10-day
fast one of the young ladiesasked Seymour and others to pray
for her to receive this giftand she began to speak in
(05:34):
tongues.
During that time, seymourhimself received the baptism of
the Holy Spirit and began tospeak in tongues, and the
revival really was on.
People began to gather from thecommunity into the yard of
Bonnie Bray Street.
They would come up on the porch.
They made the porch their altarand they would pray there.
And while they were filling theporch up as their altar,
seeking their own personalPentecost, the porch fell
through.
It wasn't too strong andSeymour said we've got to do
(05:57):
something else, we've got tofind a building.
So they went down the roadabout a mile mile and a half and
they found what was then alivery stable.
It had been an AME churchbefore and it turned into a barn
.
Animals were there andSeymour's team asked if they
could possibly rent this spaceand they gave them permission.
They swept all of the refuseout of the building, they made
(06:19):
some little makeshift pews, theyput two milk cartons together
in the center of the room andmade a semicircle at 312 Azusa
Street in Los Angeles.
This facility then became thehome of the Apostolic Faith
Mission, or the Azusa StreetMission, and became the home of
a revival that really changedthe world, that we know today as
(06:41):
the Azusa Street Revival.
So when you say, how did thishappen?
In many ways the epicenter ofthe movement, the explosive
moment of the movement, happenedat Azusa Street, though there
was a lot of other things goingon in the world, a lot of people
experiencing more of God, a lotof people experiencing spirit
baptism literally all over theglobe but it took on a focal
(07:03):
point at Azusa Street and in the20th century I think it was
Life Magazine or Time or one ofthose magazines said that the
Azusa Street revival was themost substantial and the most
important religious event of the20th century, and I believe
that's true.
Out of the Azusa Street Revivalpeople came from all over the
(07:24):
world to experience theirpersonal Pentecost.
Now, the Azusa Street Revivaltaught holiness, again out of
the holiness movement.
They taught justification byfaith.
They taught that God wanted usto love the world and that we
needed to find power to beeffective evangelists in their
day.
And it drove them to theirknees.
It drove them to their face andit drove them to their knees.
(07:45):
It drove them to their face andit drove them to this
experience of spirit baptism.
So people received their ownpersonal Pentecost and the
revival was on.
And the revival spread all overthe world, to Europe, to Asia,
to Latin America and across theUnited States.
Denominations, entiredenominations, like the
denomination I come from, theChurch of God, were swept up
(08:07):
into the revival when theirleader received the baptism.
There's like the Pentecostalholiness the same.
Some denominations rejectedthis tongue speech thing and
some received it, and those thatdid became really the
foundation of what we know todayas the Pentecostal movement.
Growing out of that, after justa few years, grew the
(08:27):
Assemblies of God and many othermovements around the world, all
believing that we are justifiedby faith, that we can be made
holy by the blood of JesusChrist and that there is a
subsequent baptism of the HolySpirit accompanied by speaking
in tongues.
And that message then becamesort of the propulsion for this
(08:50):
movement that is now numbersabout 600 to 700 million the
last counts Brian and people allover the world.
Every nation in the worldtouched by this moving of the
Holy Spirit, ultimately thecharismatic renewal, and we can
talk about some of that.
But it all really started, orreally came to head at the Azusa
Street Revival and we've seenthis amazing move of God for now
(09:12):
120 years.
Brain Stiller (09:13):
But that began the early part of the 20th
century.
I guess the obvious question toask Billy is why was this
absent for 1900 years within thechurch?
What caused the delay, or wasthere a particular reason why
the delay was appropriate in thehistory of the church?
Billy Wilson (09:33):
Well, you know a good question, brian.
Actually, you know, if youstudy deeply, it wasn't absent
in the history of the church.
You'll find even in the MiddleAges people experienced tongue
speech.
They healed the sick, theyprophesied.
It just wasn't a prominentthing but it was going on.
There was a thin line, I guessyou could say, of the spirits
moving through the church allthrough the ages.
(09:55):
Ultimately, of course, theReformation began to build the
basis of what would end up beingthe Pentecostal charismatic
movement, when Luther stoodforward and said we can't keep
going like we're going.
In many ways Luther was, andthe Reformation was a reaction
against the mystery andsuperstition of Catholicism of
(10:17):
his day.
And so the Reformation becamevery cerebral, brian, just to be
honest, for evangelicals, youknow, grace alone, faith alone
and the scripture alone.
And it became a very cerebralfaith, a faith built on
scripture, built on faith, butnot a huge amount of emotion,
whereas Catholicism of the daywas steeped in tradition and
(10:39):
emotion and mystery and evensuperstition.
So Luther reacted against that.
Well, out of the Reformation,of course, god moved all over
the world, and thank God forthat.
Then of course we get into allof the different elements of the
Reformation and things that Goddid.
Wesley then became very key,and one of the things Wesley did
(11:00):
is he went back and studied theearly church fathers, and
Wesley began to recapture alittle bit of the mystery.
So not as much just cerebralbut also visceral would be a
term used in the first greatawakening, where people's hearts
were warmed and people's heartswere changed.
Wesley himself would say thathis heart was strangely warm,
(11:23):
and so emotion began to be alittle more a part of the
Christian experience.
Well then, what happened as theholiness movement happened?
It built a foundation, and Ithink really providentially,
brian that Pentecostalism wouldnot be what it is at all without
a hundred years of the holinessmovement, especially in America
(11:44):
.
This preaching on holiness andrighteous living and godly
living built a foundation onwhich, then, people could
receive this ecstatic experience, this over-the-top kind of
experience of Pentecost, andstill understand you have to
live right and be a realChristian to be able to carry
God's anointing.
(12:04):
Well, in many ways, then,pentecostalism is somewhat of a
middle ground.
You have the Mysterium, eventhe experiential, of the early
Catholicism in the Middle Ages.
You have the Reformation, whichwas very cerebral, and in many
ways the Pentecostal movementbrings those two worlds together
(12:26):
, so to speak.
This is why Pentecostalism isso powerful in Latin America,
because Catholicism.
It helps people that have beensteeped in Catholicism not lose
the experiential part, whilehelping them catch up with their
minds the cerebral part okayand build their understanding on
faith and grace alone.
(12:48):
So what I've seen happen inPentecostalism again is it took
the Reformation and all of itswonderful elements, the holiness
movement, what John Wesleydiscovered, even from the early
church fathers, and it broughtit together again with the
mystery, with the supernatural,with the miraculous, with the
experiential, so that not onlycould you know about God and not
(13:11):
only could you believe in God,you could experience God, and
not only did you have a mindchange when you repented and
changed your mind, you couldhave a heart change that really
changed your life.
And so that's really whatPentecostalism is about it's
Bible and experience at the sametime.
Brain Stiller (13:31):
Billy.
So these denominations grow inthe early part of the 20th
century, but we come to the 60sand all of a sudden, this
message, which has been resistedby other denominations and by
Catholic and Orthodox, themessage, breaks out.
How did that happen?
Billy Wilson (13:50):
Well, I mean, it happened in a number of ways.
Of course you can't stop theHoly Spirit, brian, that's what
we would say.
He found his way over doors,under doors, around doors.
One of the things that happenedreally is the leader of the
university that I lead.
Oral Roberts had a prolifichealing ministry in the middle
part of the 20th century.
He was great friends with BillyGraham.
Billy helped dedicate OralRoberts University and Oral
(14:13):
began to bring the cameras intohis crusade and so he began to
literally televise themiraculous.
Okay, and people began to see,hey, pentecostals, people that
are full of the Holy Spirit,they're not all crazy, they know
how to do things well, withhigh excellence.
And Orwell would invite all ofthese denominations to come to
his healing crusades.
Well, everybody loves healingand people were hungry to be
(14:36):
touched by God.
And then they began toexperience the Holy Spirit.
And then, in 1961, dennisBennett, the rector of the
Episcopal Church in Van Nuys,california, was filled with the
Holy Spirit and spoken tonguesand told his congregation on
Easter Sunday he had receivedthe baptism of the Holy Spirit
and spoken tongue, an Episcopalpriest, and it sort of set this
(14:58):
ricochet across the kingdom that, hey, you could be in a church
that was not Pentecostal andstill receive this experience.
And then in the 60s and 70s wehad the charismatic renewal.
In many ways Oral Roberts camefrom a Pentecostal holiness
background but bridged the gapand became sort of a spiritual
father to many of thecharismatic expressions that
(15:20):
would happen, including in theCatholic Church.
Today, when we talk about sixto 700 people around the world
that are full of the Holy Spiritand have experienced
spirit-empowered Christianity,about 150 million of them are
charismatic Catholics.
So the charismatic renewal inthe Catholic Church took off
like a rocket in many ways.
We just, you know, a few yearsago celebrated the 50-year
(15:41):
anniversary of that and Godbegan to move in unusual ways in
churches that heretofore hadnot accepted tongues, prophecy
healing and the miraculous theystarted experiencing.
I became a Christian in the1970s and was filled with the
Holy Spirit in a church of Godchurch of God, a prophecy church
(16:04):
in a little town in Owensboro,kentucky, and it was a wonderful
experience for me.
I was a very lost teenager andreally got saved.
But in our town the charismaticrenewal was happening in the
Catholic church, so I was ableto go to some of their meetings
and I was fascinated because Iwas raised in a Catholic
community and here Catholicswere baptizing in water, praying
for the sick, prophesyinghaving dreams and visions and
(16:26):
talking about being born again,and so God was moving in some
very unusual ways.
So we ended up with charismaticCatholics, charismatic Baptists
, charismatic Presbyterians,charismatic Mennonites,
charismatic Methodists, and onand on the list went on as
people in all of these movementsbegan to experience the Holy
Spirit.
But one of the things that didthat was television, allowing
(16:48):
them to see God at work andknowing that you don't have to
be weird to be filled with theHoly Spirit.
Brain Stiller (16:56):
Billy, you use the word empower.
In fact, one of your globalnetworks is Empowered21.
You use that word empowered bythe Spirit.
Can you unwrap that for us?
Billy Wilson (17:08):
Yeah, we use it, brian, as sort of an umbrella
term, just to be honest.
That covers PentecostalsCharismatics, new kinds of
Pentecostals, new kinds ofCharismatics that don't fit any
of the things we've talked aboutso far, and people that believe
in the fullness of the Spirit,in other words, people that
believe that God still doestoday what we see in the book of
(17:30):
Acts.
So it's an umbrella term ofliving a spirit-empowered life.
Now, of course, one of ourtheme scriptures is Acts 1 and 8
.
You shall receive power afterthe Holy Spirit comes upon you
and you'll be witnesses,literally around the world.
We believe that the Holy Spiritempowers us in our Christian
living to live a full life forChrist and be a strong witness
(17:54):
for him, and so we think whathappened in the early churches?
They were empowered by the HolySpirit, their witness was
empowered and their living wasempowered.
They were empowered to see thesupernatural, but they were also
empowered to proclaim the goodnews of Jesus to their
generation.
And the 21 in Empire 21 means21st century.
So we want to know what does itlook like to be empowered by
(18:16):
the Holy Spirit in the 21stcentury?
And we talk a lot about that inthe network.
Brain Stiller (18:20):
And what's that looking like to you today?
Now we're into the firstquarter of the 21st century.
Is the Spirit empowering usdifferently or much the same way
as you saw last century?
Billy Wilson (18:33):
Well, I think you know the Spirit should always
empower us biblically.
Brian is one of the things Iwould say.
During the Azusa Street revival, it was such chaos I mean,
anytime there's a revival it'smessy People were falling out,
you know.
People were getting healed anddelivered and demons were being
cast out.
And in the middle of it all,people were getting healed and
delivered and demons were beingcast out.
And in the middle of it all,seymour held up the Bible and he
(18:55):
said this no-transcript, and ifit's not in here, we don't want
it.
So I think, through it all,we've got to be guided by
Scripture, that we want what'sin the Bible.
But let me say I believe thereare some new expressions
happening.
The most exciting expression Isee happening in 2025 is among
young people, and I'm in aliving laboratory here at ORU
(19:16):
and I can tell you Generation Zis hungry for more of God.
They want the supernatural, butthey don't want it on the stage
, they don't want it trumped up,they don't want it to be a
performance.
They want authentic, spiritualNew Testament Christianity and
they want it in their dailylives and they are hungry for
(19:36):
that.
Our prayer movement this yearhas more people involved than
ever before.
We have a prayer room in ourprayer tower at ORU, and this is
happening all over America.
We're hearing, of course,echoes of this on college
campuses literally acrossAmerica, and then anywhere I go
in the world.
It's a new generation that isreally hungry for God.
You know, a Christiansociologist in the study
(19:57):
movements would tell you that sofar there have been basically
three waves, brian.
We've mentioned two of them.
The first was Pentecostalism,which is sort of historic or
classical PentecostalismAssemblies of God, church of God
, those denominations.
The second wave then was thecharismatic renewal in the 60s,
70s and 80s of denominationalpeople that were not part of
(20:18):
those denominations receivingthe baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The third wave then is sort ofa new expression that has been
going on for about 30 years nowof new Pentecostal, new
charismatic churches that formnetworks.
You hear this a lot.
There's a network around amegachurch and they have
churches all over the world.
They say they're not adenomination, but they're sort
of a denomination, and so a lotof that has been going on.
(20:42):
I believe we're on the precipice, and maybe at the edge, brian,
of what could be a fourth wave.
This fourth wave is going to bevery much young.
It's going to involvetechnology in new ways and it's
going to involve global culturein a way we have never seen
before.
What is happening in youthculture today is a lot of the
(21:03):
barriers are broken down, and soI just came from Manila.
Last night, people inPhilippines, young people in
Philippines, listen to the samemusic, watch the same movies, as
young people in the UnitedStates, as young people in
Buenos Aires, argentina, asyoung people in Zimbabwe, africa
, and so this global youthculture that is happening is
(21:23):
giving us the possibility for aglobal awakening and revival
like we've never seen before,and I think in that we're going
to see a thrust for the GreatCommission at a level we've
never seen before, and it'sgoing to be led by brave,
courageous, authentic,spiritually hungry new
(21:44):
generation of young men andwomen.
Now, I don't know what that'sgoing to do to the church.
I don't know what it's going tolook like.
You know, 20 years from now,what it will do to Christianity.
I just know that thisgeneration is going to make a
profound difference inChristianity, and I think it's
going to be great, so I'm veryproud of them.
Difference in Christianity, andI think it's going to be great.
So I'm very proud of them, I'mexcited for them, and we may be
(22:07):
Brian in what could be a fourthwave of Holy Spirit expression.
It's a little early to tell,but I think we may be in the
edge of it right now.
Brain Stiller (22:11):
Let me ask you a question about a couple of
things.
One thing about how does thespiritual focus of the
Pentecostal charismatic movementand the empowerment of the
individual, how does that workits way out into social issues
of poverty and need, rather thanjust isolated within the
individual?
Billy Wilson (22:32):
I think that's a great question, always been a
question.
You know, pentecostalcharismatics have been accused
of not being too socially active.
Actually, that's a falsism.
If you go back, even out ofAzusa Street, they were helping
people.
They were feeding the hungry,they were doing clothes for
people, they were taking upofferings to help people do
things and get home and go tothe mission field Very socially
(22:55):
active from the very beginning.
And Pentecostal Charismatics inmany places in the world, brian,
are on the cutting edge reallyof disaster relief, of community
development, of helping peoplewith addiction and all kinds of
things that are going on.
The Teen Challenge came from aperson that was filled with the
Holy Spirit, and you can just godown the list through time.
Right now in America, thePentecostal Spirit-Empired
(23:18):
Church, pentecostal CharismaticChurch, is very active,
especially in relief,development and community
development and transformationof communities.
There's a lot of talk in ourmovement that we have all these
people full of the Holy Spirit.
It should make a biggerdifference in societies.
Africa has experienced a greatrevival and yet it's a place of
(23:38):
great corruption, and so there'sa move of God going on to help
rectify some of that and helpsee the work of the Holy Spirit
lived out in a way thattransforms society.
Wesley gave us a great model ofthat.
He believed in transformingsociety as much as we could and
as the gospel was shared and asGod's work was done.
(23:58):
And so, like, for instance, inthe Pentecostal World Fellowship
I chair this group.
We have a World MissionsCommission, but part of that
World Missions Commission is arelief and development arm.
That relief and development armhas a meeting every year and we
have 40 to 80 groups from thePentecostal movement around the
world, from the SwedishPentecostals, finnish
(24:20):
Pentecostals to Convoy of Hopehere in the United States, to
all kinds of entities that aredoing relief, development,
support of the poor and thehungry, and so Pentecostal
Charismatics have always beenvery involved.
And as we do that, we alsobring the gospel with us and we
bring the miraculous with us.
(24:40):
We believe God can really touchpeople as we're feeding them,
as we're clothing them and aswe're helping them in the midst
of disaster.
Brain Stiller (24:48):
The other issue relates to the division that
naturally occurs withinreligious communities, but the
Pentecostalismatic Movement hasspawned a whole variety of
denominations and networks andcongregations.
How does the message of Jesusthat we be one work its way into
(25:10):
the activity of the Spirit intoday's manifestation?
Billy Wilson (25:14):
I think, great question, brian.
We are, you know, theSpirit-empowered movement,
pentecostal Charismatic, maybethe most diverse movement in the
history of the world.
We're the fastest growing partof Christianity.
Some believe we're the fastestgrowing religious movement on
the planet, and we are superdiverse.
I use the scripture from theOld Testament.
There is the river of God andthe streams thereof make glad
(25:37):
the city of God.
We've got a lot of streams inour movement.
We've got the healing stream,prophetic stream, denominational
stream.
You just go on, and on, and onand on.
Now I believe in our day that inmany ways this diversity has
helped us reach people.
Maybe we would not have reachedotherwise, but I believe what
we're finding is a new energytoward unity.
(25:58):
In fact, that's what I'mspending my life on, brian.
A lot of what I've done overthe last few years in bringing
people together has been builtaround the vision that, yes, we
are many streams, but whathappens when these streams begin
to converge together is a floodof God's presence and glory.
And so we're building networks,really on the principle of John
(26:19):
17 and Jesus' prayer, thatChristian unity must first be
relational.
Jesus prayed that we would beone as he and the Father are one
that we would share.
In this relationship we wouldlove one another, we would
tolerate one another, we wouldembrace one another.
So we do a lot of relationshipbuilding in our movement now and
(26:39):
the 20 empire, 21 and thePentecostal world fellowship,
but also that our unity ismissional.
So we're not only relational,but Jesus said that they may be
one so that the world maybelieve, and so one of the big
things we are doing together iswe are working toward reaching
every person on earth with thegood news of Jesus Christ by
(27:01):
2033.
We're trying to do something sobig that no one group can do it
by themselves, and that'sdrawing us together not only
with Pentecostals andCharismatics, but Rick Warren
and I are convening a new groupcalled the 2033 Roundtable.
We were in New York this year.
We had about 30 ministries thathave 2033 initiatives, so it's
(27:21):
really capturing the imaginationof Christianity.
The World Baptist Union, forinstance the World Baptist
Organization, just launched a2033 initiative.
Assembly of God has a 2033initiative.
Luson World EvangelicalAlliance is launching a 2033
initiative.
We even had the World Councilof Churches executive leader,
(27:41):
jerry Pillay, with us, and theywant to be more evangelistic in
this day.
So the mission of God is callingus together in unity.
So the Christian unity must berelational, first missional, and
then it must be spiritual.
Jesus prayed in John 17.
He said I give them the gloryyou've given me so that they may
be one.
(28:02):
So ultimately, the Holy Spiritis at work, bringing us together
and giving him place among us.
We'll draw our hearts togetherthe warmer we get.
The warmer we get with God, themore we are melted down by
God's presence, the more we willcome together in Christ,
relationally and missionally, tochange the world.
(28:22):
I believe we're in a great dayfor this, brian.
I see a lot of amazing signshappening, not only in the
Spirit Empowered Movement butacross Christianity.
Because of some of the things Iget to serve, I'm with all
kinds of believers in all kindsof environments and I'm just
really excited that when I meeta brother and sister, the labels
in our day tend to be secondaryto the main label that they
(28:43):
believe in Jesus Christ as theirSavior and therefore they are
my brother or my sister, whichmeans I can relate to them and
we can do something together tobring the good news of Jesus to
our generation.
Brain Stiller (28:56):
Billy, the variety of people who are
listening to our podcast wouldinclude those who may be a bit
nervous because of an experienceor what they've heard about
this Pentecostal message, ormaybe someone and this is the
first time they've heard aboutit.
What would you say to encouragethem to move forward in opening
(29:20):
their lives to the work of theSpirit and the empowerment
message that you havearticulated?
Billy Wilson (29:27):
Revival has always been messy.
If you go to the Cain Ridgerevival you know it was an
evangelical revival, but boy, itwas a messy revival with all
kinds of extremes going on.
So there are extremes in ourmovement.
I admit that I grieve over itsometimes.
And yet people are hungry forGod and trying to experience him
in his fullness.
So I would say don't judge uson those extremes.
(29:49):
Go back to the Bible and as welook at the New Testament we see
a church that's really on fire,brian.
They are full of God.
They've become a habitation ofGod through the Holy Spirit,
both as individuals and as acorporate body.
And that's what I want.
I want to be that kind ofchurch because we live in a
world that needs the work of theHoly Spirit more than first
(30:12):
century world did in the earlychurch.
I don't believe things stoppedwith the last apostle.
I've experienced every miracleI've ever seen in the book of
Acts, except one Philip beingtransported supernaturally.
I haven't seen that, but I'veseen the dead raised.
I've seen people healed.
I've seen prophecies given.
I've seen the miraculous happen, usually not like I expect it,
(30:32):
but God is at work in the world,all over the world, bringing
the good news of Jesus to theworld, and I think what drove
people at Azusa Street thatshould drive us today is what
will it take to be effective inmy generation?
So I think the real question isare you an effective witness
and do you want to be a moreeffective witness?
(30:52):
If so, god promises that hewill empower you when the Holy
Spirit comes on you to be awitness.
So the Holy Spirit comes notjust for all these miracle signs
and some of the extremes we seesometimes.
He fills us up so we can bemore effective at sharing Jesus
with the world in which we live.
And if you're hungry for that,the Holy Spirit will help you do
(31:16):
that.
So don't be afraid.
You don't have to be afraid.
I meet people all the time thatare afraid until they get into
the fullness of the Spirit andthey say, boy, that was easy,
that wasn't so difficult afterall.
And let the Holy Spirit leadyou step by step.
Study the Bible.
Look at all the occasions.
There are five major occasionsin the book of Acts where people
received the baptism of theHoly Spirit as a subsequent
(31:38):
experience to being convertedActs chapter 2, acts chapter 9,.
When Saul of Tarsus receivesthe Holy Spirit after
surrendering to Jesus Christ onthe road to Damascus.
Acts 10, where it sort of allhappened at the same time at
Cornelius' house.
And then Acts 8, where, atSamaria, people are converted to
Christ.
Peter and John come down andlay their hands on them and they
(31:59):
receive the baptism of the HolySpirit.
And then, of course, acts 19,the disciples of John, who Paul
explains about the Holy Spiritto them and they receive the
Holy Spirit and prophesy andspeak in tongues.
And these five occasions peopleexperience something that's
dramatic, something that'ssignificant, something that
empowers them for witness.
(32:19):
And you can experience the same.
So thank you, brian, foropening that door, and I just
pray for those that arelistening.
Join us, join us in reachingthe world for Jesus Christ.
As we relate together, as welove one another, the Holy
Spirit will do his work among usand he'll do his work in your
life.
Brain Stiller (32:38):
Dr Billy Wilson, thank you so much for your time
and for your unwrapping of thismarvelous movement of the last
century.
Billy Wilson (32:47):
Thanks again for joining us, thank you, brian,
great to be with you, appreciateall you're doing.
You're such a great friend anda great ambassador for our
movement and for Christianityaround the world.
God bless you and God blessthis podcast.
Brain Stiller (32:59):
Thanks, billy.
Thank you, dr Wilson, forjoining us today and for helping
us understand this powerful andhistoric witness within the
global church, and thank you forbeing a part of the podcast.
Be sure to share this episodeusing hashtag Evangelical360 and
join in on the conversation onYouTube.
(33:21):
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guest, be sure to
check the show notes for linksand info, and if you haven't
already received my free e-bookand newsletter, just go to
brianstillercom.
Thanks again, until next time,don't miss.
(33:42):
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, brian Stiller,and I'm pleased to share with
you another conversation withleaders, changemakers,
influencers impacting Christianlife around the world.
We'd love for you to be a partof the podcast by sharing this
episode using hashtagEvangelical360 and by joining
(00:33):
the conversation on YouTube inthe comments below.
My guest today is Dr BillyWilson, president of Oral
Roberts University and Chair ofthe Pentecostal World Fellowship
and Empowered 21, a globalPentecostal charismatic network.
In just over a century, whatbegan as an uneducated and
(00:53):
obscure Christian communityquickly caught fire and
multiplied around the world,becoming the primary influence
of 20th century Protestantism,which begs the question how did
the Pentecostal and Charismaticmovement come about?
What historical void or vacancyled the Church to such a unique
(01:14):
emphasis on the Holy Spirit andthe empowerment of millions of
Christians worldwide?
Listen in as Dr Wilson shareswith us the remarkable history
and heritage.
Dr Billy Wilson, what a joy tohave you on Evangelical 360
(01:37):
today.
Welcome.
Billy Wilson (01:38):
Yeah, thank you, brian.
It's great to be with you andwe're just honored.
I appreciate your leadership sovery much over the years, and
so I'm excited about ourconversation today.
Brain Stiller (01:47):
Well, billy, you have just by your leadership.
In my view you're kind of MrPentecost globally, president of
Oral Roberts University, chairof major Pentecostal networks
and associations, works andassociations.
(02:09):
But I'm interested in knowingwhat happened a little over a
century ago that brought intobeing this world Pentecostal
charismatic movement which, nextto the Roman Catholics, would
be the largest single groupingwithin the world Christian
community.
How did that happen?
Billy Wilson (02:21):
Well, obviously it was sovereign work of God, I
think, brian, but some of thehistorical details you know in
the 1800s and 19th century, whatwould have been termed by
theologians, sociologists, etc.
Especially religioussociologists, would have been
the holiness movement Sweepingacross America and around the
world really was a focus onholiness, accompanied by camp
(02:44):
meetings and a lot of differentministries that came into focus.
During that day, a lot ofthings happened.
A great evangelist rose,missionary movements were
happening, etc.
And out of that began to grow adesire for more of God, more of
the Holy Spirit, more powerfrom God.
And then, emerging from the1800s to the 1900s, 19th century
(03:06):
to the 20th century, a numberof things began to take place.
A teacher by the name ofCharles Parham and a group of
students that were in a schoolthat he was leading in Topeka,
kansas, began to do a study.
The study really focused aroundwhat happens when a person is
filled with the Holy Spirit andhow do we know really know that
(03:27):
we're full of the Holy Spirit?
The students did a study,Parham himself was doing a study
and they arrived on the wholeidea of subsequent baptism to
conversion tongue speech as oneof the prominent signs of being
baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on a young ladythe very first day of 1901, and
(03:47):
she received this gift andbegan to speak in other
languages, and Parham's teachingthen began to spread.
In fact, there was a partiallyblind black gentleman in Houston
, texas.
That was his Parham school.
There he sat in the hallwaybecause of Jim Crow laws and
prejudiced against Somewhatuneducated but very hungry for
(04:08):
God.
His name was William Seymour.
Seymour heard this message thatthere is a fullness of the Holy
Spirit, that subsequent toconversion and knowing Christ,
you can be made holy and you canbe filled with the Holy Spirit,
and when you are, you'llexperience this glossolalia
tongue speech or zelalalia, evenspeaking in some known language
(04:31):
that you have never heardbefore or don't know before.
Seymour picked that message upand adopted it as his own and
was called to a church in LosAngeles, a Baptist church,
actually, to be their pastor.
When he got to the Baptistchurch in Los Angeles, he
started preaching this messagefrom Charles Parham's teaching
and the church sort of flippedout.
In fact, after a couple ofservices with Seymour, they
(04:53):
locked him out of the building.
They changed the locks on thedoors and though he was named
pastor, he couldn't get back inthe building.
So he and about 10 people fromthat congregation that had heard
his message and believed thatthere was more of God and that
they wanted this power of theHoly Spirit began to meet in a
home.
The home was on a street calledBonnie Bray Street in Los
(05:13):
Angeles.
The home is still standingthere today, by the way.
It's a museum that's curated bythe Church of God in Christ,
and they began to pray together.
They went on a 10-day fast andin the middle of that 10-day
fast one of the young ladiesasked Seymour and others to pray
for her to receive this giftand she began to speak in
(05:34):
tongues.
During that time, seymourhimself received the baptism of
the Holy Spirit and began tospeak in tongues, and the
revival really was on.
People began to gather from thecommunity into the yard of
Bonnie Bray Street.
They would come up on the porch.
They made the porch their altarand they would pray there.
And while they were filling theporch up as their altar,
seeking their own personalPentecost, the porch fell
through.
It wasn't too strong andSeymour said we've got to do
(05:57):
something else, we've got tofind a building.
So they went down the roadabout a mile mile and a half and
they found what was then alivery stable.
It had been an AME churchbefore and it turned into a barn
.
Animals were there andSeymour's team asked if they
could possibly rent this spaceand they gave them permission.
They swept all of the refuseout of the building, they made
(06:19):
some little makeshift pews, theyput two milk cartons together
in the center of the room andmade a semicircle at 312 Azusa
Street in Los Angeles.
This facility then became thehome of the Apostolic Faith
Mission, or the Azusa StreetMission, and became the home of
a revival that really changedthe world, that we know today as
(06:41):
the Azusa Street Revival.
So when you say, how did thishappen?
In many ways the epicenter ofthe movement, the explosive
moment of the movement, happenedat Azusa Street, though there
was a lot of other things goingon in the world, a lot of people
experiencing more of God, a lotof people experiencing spirit
baptism literally all over theglobe but it took on a focal
(07:03):
point at Azusa Street and in the20th century I think it was
Life Magazine or Time or one ofthose magazines said that the
Azusa Street revival was themost substantial and the most
important religious event of the20th century, and I believe
that's true.
Out of the Azusa Street Revivalpeople came from all over the
(07:24):
world to experience theirpersonal Pentecost.
Now, the Azusa Street Revivaltaught holiness, again out of
the holiness movement.
They taught justification byfaith.
They taught that God wanted usto love the world and that we
needed to find power to beeffective evangelists in their
day.
And it drove them to theirknees.
It drove them to their face andit drove them to their knees.
(07:45):
It drove them to their face andit drove them to this
experience of spirit baptism.
So people received their ownpersonal Pentecost and the
revival was on.
And the revival spread all overthe world, to Europe, to Asia,
to Latin America and across theUnited States.
Denominations, entiredenominations, like the
denomination I come from, theChurch of God, were swept up
(08:07):
into the revival when theirleader received the baptism.
There's like the Pentecostalholiness the same.
Some denominations rejectedthis tongue speech thing and
some received it, and those thatdid became really the
foundation of what we know todayas the Pentecostal movement.
Growing out of that, after justa few years, grew the
(08:27):
Assemblies of God and many othermovements around the world, all
believing that we are justifiedby faith, that we can be made
holy by the blood of JesusChrist and that there is a
subsequent baptism of the HolySpirit accompanied by speaking
in tongues.
And that message then becamesort of the propulsion for this
(08:50):
movement that is now numbersabout 600 to 700 million the
last counts Brian and people allover the world.
Every nation in the worldtouched by this moving of the
Holy Spirit, ultimately thecharismatic renewal, and we can
talk about some of that.
But it all really started, orreally came to head at the Azusa
Street Revival and we've seenthis amazing move of God for now
(09:12):
120 years.
Brain Stiller (09:13):
But that began the early part of the 20th
century.
I guess the obvious question toask Billy is why was this
absent for 1900 years within thechurch?
What caused the delay, or wasthere a particular reason why
the delay was appropriate in thehistory of the church?
Billy Wilson (09:33):
Well, you know a good question, brian.
Actually, you know, if youstudy deeply, it wasn't absent
in the history of the church.
You'll find even in the MiddleAges people experienced tongue
speech.
They healed the sick, theyprophesied.
It just wasn't a prominentthing but it was going on.
There was a thin line, I guessyou could say, of the spirits
moving through the church allthrough the ages.
(09:55):
Ultimately, of course, theReformation began to build the
basis of what would end up beingthe Pentecostal charismatic
movement, when Luther stoodforward and said we can't keep
going like we're going.
In many ways Luther was, andthe Reformation was a reaction
against the mystery andsuperstition of Catholicism of
(10:17):
his day.
And so the Reformation becamevery cerebral, brian, just to be
honest, for evangelicals, youknow, grace alone, faith alone
and the scripture alone.
And it became a very cerebralfaith, a faith built on
scripture, built on faith, butnot a huge amount of emotion,
whereas Catholicism of the daywas steeped in tradition and
(10:39):
emotion and mystery and evensuperstition.
So Luther reacted against that.
Well, out of the Reformation,of course, god moved all over
the world, and thank God forthat.
Then of course we get into allof the different elements of the
Reformation and things that Goddid.
Wesley then became very key,and one of the things Wesley did
(11:00):
is he went back and studied theearly church fathers, and
Wesley began to recapture alittle bit of the mystery.
So not as much just cerebralbut also visceral would be a
term used in the first greatawakening, where people's hearts
were warmed and people's heartswere changed.
Wesley himself would say thathis heart was strangely warm,
(11:23):
and so emotion began to be alittle more a part of the
Christian experience.
Well then, what happened as theholiness movement happened?
It built a foundation, and Ithink really providentially,
brian that Pentecostalism wouldnot be what it is at all without
a hundred years of the holinessmovement, especially in America
(11:44):
.
This preaching on holiness andrighteous living and godly
living built a foundation onwhich, then, people could
receive this ecstatic experience, this over-the-top kind of
experience of Pentecost, andstill understand you have to
live right and be a realChristian to be able to carry
God's anointing.
(12:04):
Well, in many ways, then,pentecostalism is somewhat of a
middle ground.
You have the Mysterium, eventhe experiential, of the early
Catholicism in the Middle Ages.
You have the Reformation, whichwas very cerebral, and in many
ways the Pentecostal movementbrings those two worlds together
(12:26):
, so to speak.
This is why Pentecostalism isso powerful in Latin America,
because Catholicism.
It helps people that have beensteeped in Catholicism not lose
the experiential part, whilehelping them catch up with their
minds the cerebral part okayand build their understanding on
faith and grace alone.
(12:48):
So what I've seen happen inPentecostalism again is it took
the Reformation and all of itswonderful elements, the holiness
movement, what John Wesleydiscovered, even from the early
church fathers, and it broughtit together again with the
mystery, with the supernatural,with the miraculous, with the
experiential, so that not onlycould you know about God and not
(13:11):
only could you believe in God,you could experience God, and
not only did you have a mindchange when you repented and
changed your mind, you couldhave a heart change that really
changed your life.
And so that's really whatPentecostalism is about it's
Bible and experience at the sametime.
Brain Stiller (13:31):
Billy.
So these denominations grow inthe early part of the 20th
century, but we come to the 60sand all of a sudden, this
message, which has been resistedby other denominations and by
Catholic and Orthodox, themessage, breaks out.
How did that happen?
Billy Wilson (13:50):
Well, I mean, it happened in a number of ways.
Of course you can't stop theHoly Spirit, brian, that's what
we would say.
He found his way over doors,under doors, around doors.
One of the things that happenedreally is the leader of the
university that I lead.
Oral Roberts had a prolifichealing ministry in the middle
part of the 20th century.
He was great friends with BillyGraham.
Billy helped dedicate OralRoberts University and Oral
(14:13):
began to bring the cameras intohis crusade and so he began to
literally televise themiraculous.
Okay, and people began to see,hey, pentecostals, people that
are full of the Holy Spirit,they're not all crazy, they know
how to do things well, withhigh excellence.
And Orwell would invite all ofthese denominations to come to
his healing crusades.
Well, everybody loves healingand people were hungry to be
(14:36):
touched by God.
And then they began toexperience the Holy Spirit.
And then, in 1961, dennisBennett, the rector of the
Episcopal Church in Van Nuys,california, was filled with the
Holy Spirit and spoken tonguesand told his congregation on
Easter Sunday he had receivedthe baptism of the Holy Spirit
and spoken tongue, an Episcopalpriest, and it sort of set this
(14:58):
ricochet across the kingdom that, hey, you could be in a church
that was not Pentecostal andstill receive this experience.
And then in the 60s and 70s wehad the charismatic renewal.
In many ways Oral Roberts camefrom a Pentecostal holiness
background but bridged the gapand became sort of a spiritual
father to many of thecharismatic expressions that
(15:20):
would happen, including in theCatholic Church.
Today, when we talk about sixto 700 people around the world
that are full of the Holy Spiritand have experienced
spirit-empowered Christianity,about 150 million of them are
charismatic Catholics.
So the charismatic renewal inthe Catholic Church took off
like a rocket in many ways.
We just, you know, a few yearsago celebrated the 50-year
(15:41):
anniversary of that and Godbegan to move in unusual ways in
churches that heretofore hadnot accepted tongues, prophecy
healing and the miraculous theystarted experiencing.
I became a Christian in the1970s and was filled with the
Holy Spirit in a church of Godchurch of God, a prophecy church
(16:04):
in a little town in Owensboro,kentucky, and it was a wonderful
experience for me.
I was a very lost teenager andreally got saved.
But in our town the charismaticrenewal was happening in the
Catholic church, so I was ableto go to some of their meetings
and I was fascinated because Iwas raised in a Catholic
community and here Catholicswere baptizing in water, praying
for the sick, prophesyinghaving dreams and visions and
(16:26):
talking about being born again,and so God was moving in some
very unusual ways.
So we ended up with charismaticCatholics, charismatic Baptists
, charismatic Presbyterians,charismatic Mennonites,
charismatic Methodists, and onand on the list went on as
people in all of these movementsbegan to experience the Holy
Spirit.
But one of the things that didthat was television, allowing
(16:48):
them to see God at work andknowing that you don't have to
be weird to be filled with theHoly Spirit.
Brain Stiller (16:56):
Billy, you use the word empower.
In fact, one of your globalnetworks is Empowered21.
You use that word empowered bythe Spirit.
Can you unwrap that for us?
Billy Wilson (17:08):
Yeah, we use it, brian, as sort of an umbrella
term, just to be honest.
That covers PentecostalsCharismatics, new kinds of
Pentecostals, new kinds ofCharismatics that don't fit any
of the things we've talked aboutso far, and people that believe
in the fullness of the Spirit,in other words, people that
believe that God still doestoday what we see in the book of
(17:30):
Acts.
So it's an umbrella term ofliving a spirit-empowered life.
Now, of course, one of ourtheme scriptures is Acts 1 and 8
.
You shall receive power afterthe Holy Spirit comes upon you
and you'll be witnesses,literally around the world.
We believe that the Holy Spiritempowers us in our Christian
living to live a full life forChrist and be a strong witness
(17:54):
for him, and so we think whathappened in the early churches?
They were empowered by the HolySpirit, their witness was
empowered and their living wasempowered.
They were empowered to see thesupernatural, but they were also
empowered to proclaim the goodnews of Jesus to their
generation.
And the 21 in Empire 21 means21st century.
So we want to know what does itlook like to be empowered by
(18:16):
the Holy Spirit in the 21stcentury?
And we talk a lot about that inthe network.
Brain Stiller (18:20):
And what's that looking like to you today?
Now we're into the firstquarter of the 21st century.
Is the Spirit empowering usdifferently or much the same way
as you saw last century?
Billy Wilson (18:33):
Well, I think you know the Spirit should always
empower us biblically.
Brian is one of the things Iwould say.
During the Azusa Street revival, it was such chaos I mean,
anytime there's a revival it'smessy People were falling out,
you know.
People were getting healed anddelivered and demons were being
cast out.
And in the middle of it all,people were getting healed and
delivered and demons were beingcast out.
And in the middle of it all,seymour held up the Bible and he
(18:55):
said this no-transcript, and ifit's not in here, we don't want
it.
So I think, through it all,we've got to be guided by
Scripture, that we want what'sin the Bible.
But let me say I believe thereare some new expressions
happening.
The most exciting expression Isee happening in 2025 is among
young people, and I'm in aliving laboratory here at ORU
(19:16):
and I can tell you Generation Zis hungry for more of God.
They want the supernatural, butthey don't want it on the stage
, they don't want it trumped up,they don't want it to be a
performance.
They want authentic, spiritualNew Testament Christianity and
they want it in their dailylives and they are hungry for
(19:36):
that.
Our prayer movement this yearhas more people involved than
ever before.
We have a prayer room in ourprayer tower at ORU, and this is
happening all over America.
We're hearing, of course,echoes of this on college
campuses literally acrossAmerica, and then anywhere I go
in the world.
It's a new generation that isreally hungry for God.
You know, a Christiansociologist in the study
(19:57):
movements would tell you that sofar there have been basically
three waves, brian.
We've mentioned two of them.
The first was Pentecostalism,which is sort of historic or
classical PentecostalismAssemblies of God, church of God
, those denominations.
The second wave then was thecharismatic renewal in the 60s,
70s and 80s of denominationalpeople that were not part of
(20:18):
those denominations receivingthe baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The third wave then is sort ofa new expression that has been
going on for about 30 years nowof new Pentecostal, new
charismatic churches that formnetworks.
You hear this a lot.
There's a network around amegachurch and they have
churches all over the world.
They say they're not adenomination, but they're sort
of a denomination, and so a lotof that has been going on.
(20:42):
I believe we're on the precipice, and maybe at the edge, brian,
of what could be a fourth wave.
This fourth wave is going to bevery much young.
It's going to involvetechnology in new ways and it's
going to involve global culturein a way we have never seen
before.
What is happening in youthculture today is a lot of the
(21:03):
barriers are broken down, and soI just came from Manila.
Last night, people inPhilippines, young people in
Philippines, listen to the samemusic, watch the same movies, as
young people in the UnitedStates, as young people in
Buenos Aires, argentina, asyoung people in Zimbabwe, africa
, and so this global youthculture that is happening is
(21:23):
giving us the possibility for aglobal awakening and revival
like we've never seen before,and I think in that we're going
to see a thrust for the GreatCommission at a level we've
never seen before, and it'sgoing to be led by brave,
courageous, authentic,spiritually hungry new
(21:44):
generation of young men andwomen.
Now, I don't know what that'sgoing to do to the church.
I don't know what it's going tolook like.
You know, 20 years from now,what it will do to Christianity.
I just know that thisgeneration is going to make a
profound difference inChristianity, and I think it's
going to be great, so I'm veryproud of them.
Difference in Christianity, andI think it's going to be great.
So I'm very proud of them, I'mexcited for them, and we may be
(22:07):
Brian in what could be a fourthwave of Holy Spirit expression.
It's a little early to tell,but I think we may be in the
edge of it right now.
Brain Stiller (22:11):
Let me ask you a question about a couple of
things.
One thing about how does thespiritual focus of the
Pentecostal charismatic movementand the empowerment of the
individual, how does that workits way out into social issues
of poverty and need, rather thanjust isolated within the
individual?
Billy Wilson (22:32):
I think that's a great question, always been a
question.
You know, pentecostalcharismatics have been accused
of not being too socially active.
Actually, that's a falsism.
If you go back, even out ofAzusa Street, they were helping
people.
They were feeding the hungry,they were doing clothes for
people, they were taking upofferings to help people do
things and get home and go tothe mission field Very socially
(22:55):
active from the very beginning.
And Pentecostal Charismatics inmany places in the world, brian,
are on the cutting edge reallyof disaster relief, of community
development, of helping peoplewith addiction and all kinds of
things that are going on.
The Teen Challenge came from aperson that was filled with the
Holy Spirit, and you can just godown the list through time.
Right now in America, thePentecostal Spirit-Empired
(23:18):
Church, pentecostal CharismaticChurch, is very active,
especially in relief,development and community
development and transformationof communities.
There's a lot of talk in ourmovement that we have all these
people full of the Holy Spirit.
It should make a biggerdifference in societies.
Africa has experienced a greatrevival and yet it's a place of
(23:38):
great corruption, and so there'sa move of God going on to help
rectify some of that and helpsee the work of the Holy Spirit
lived out in a way thattransforms society.
Wesley gave us a great model ofthat.
He believed in transformingsociety as much as we could and
as the gospel was shared and asGod's work was done.
(23:58):
And so, like, for instance, inthe Pentecostal World Fellowship
I chair this group.
We have a World MissionsCommission, but part of that
World Missions Commission is arelief and development arm.
That relief and development armhas a meeting every year and we
have 40 to 80 groups from thePentecostal movement around the
world, from the SwedishPentecostals, finnish
(24:20):
Pentecostals to Convoy of Hopehere in the United States, to
all kinds of entities that aredoing relief, development,
support of the poor and thehungry, and so Pentecostal
Charismatics have always beenvery involved.
And as we do that, we alsobring the gospel with us and we
bring the miraculous with us.
(24:40):
We believe God can really touchpeople as we're feeding them,
as we're clothing them and aswe're helping them in the midst
of disaster.
Brain Stiller (24:48):
The other issue relates to the division that
naturally occurs withinreligious communities, but the
Pentecostalismatic Movement hasspawned a whole variety of
denominations and networks andcongregations.
How does the message of Jesusthat we be one work its way into
(25:10):
the activity of the Spirit intoday's manifestation?
Billy Wilson (25:14):
I think, great question, brian.
We are, you know, theSpirit-empowered movement,
pentecostal Charismatic, maybethe most diverse movement in the
history of the world.
We're the fastest growing partof Christianity.
Some believe we're the fastestgrowing religious movement on
the planet, and we are superdiverse.
I use the scripture from theOld Testament.
There is the river of God andthe streams thereof make glad
(25:37):
the city of God.
We've got a lot of streams inour movement.
We've got the healing stream,prophetic stream, denominational
stream.
You just go on, and on, and onand on.
Now I believe in our day that inmany ways this diversity has
helped us reach people.
Maybe we would not have reachedotherwise, but I believe what
we're finding is a new energytoward unity.
(25:58):
In fact, that's what I'mspending my life on, brian.
A lot of what I've done overthe last few years in bringing
people together has been builtaround the vision that, yes, we
are many streams, but whathappens when these streams begin
to converge together is a floodof God's presence and glory.
And so we're building networks,really on the principle of John
(26:19):
17 and Jesus' prayer, thatChristian unity must first be
relational.
Jesus prayed that we would beone as he and the Father are one
that we would share.
In this relationship we wouldlove one another, we would
tolerate one another, we wouldembrace one another.
So we do a lot of relationshipbuilding in our movement now and
(26:39):
the 20 empire, 21 and thePentecostal world fellowship,
but also that our unity ismissional.
So we're not only relational,but Jesus said that they may be
one so that the world maybelieve, and so one of the big
things we are doing together iswe are working toward reaching
every person on earth with thegood news of Jesus Christ by
(27:01):
2033.
We're trying to do something sobig that no one group can do it
by themselves, and that'sdrawing us together not only
with Pentecostals andCharismatics, but Rick Warren
and I are convening a new groupcalled the 2033 Roundtable.
We were in New York this year.
We had about 30 ministries thathave 2033 initiatives, so it's
(27:21):
really capturing the imaginationof Christianity.
The World Baptist Union, forinstance the World Baptist
Organization, just launched a2033 initiative.
Assembly of God has a 2033initiative.
Luson World EvangelicalAlliance is launching a 2033
initiative.
We even had the World Councilof Churches executive leader,
(27:41):
jerry Pillay, with us, and theywant to be more evangelistic in
this day.
So the mission of God is callingus together in unity.
So the Christian unity must berelational, first missional, and
then it must be spiritual.
Jesus prayed in John 17.
He said I give them the gloryyou've given me so that they may
be one.
(28:02):
So ultimately, the Holy Spiritis at work, bringing us together
and giving him place among us.
We'll draw our hearts togetherthe warmer we get.
The warmer we get with God, themore we are melted down by
God's presence, the more we willcome together in Christ,
relationally and missionally, tochange the world.
(28:22):
I believe we're in a great dayfor this, brian.
I see a lot of amazing signshappening, not only in the
Spirit Empowered Movement butacross Christianity.
Because of some of the things Iget to serve, I'm with all
kinds of believers in all kindsof environments and I'm just
really excited that when I meeta brother and sister, the labels
in our day tend to be secondaryto the main label that they
(28:43):
believe in Jesus Christ as theirSavior and therefore they are
my brother or my sister, whichmeans I can relate to them and
we can do something together tobring the good news of Jesus to
our generation.
Brain Stiller (28:56):
Billy, the variety of people who are
listening to our podcast wouldinclude those who may be a bit
nervous because of an experienceor what they've heard about
this Pentecostal message, ormaybe someone and this is the
first time they've heard aboutit.
What would you say to encouragethem to move forward in opening
(29:20):
their lives to the work of theSpirit and the empowerment
message that you havearticulated?
Billy Wilson (29:27):
Revival has always been messy.
If you go to the Cain Ridgerevival you know it was an
evangelical revival, but boy, itwas a messy revival with all
kinds of extremes going on.
So there are extremes in ourmovement.
I admit that I grieve over itsometimes.
And yet people are hungry forGod and trying to experience him
in his fullness.
So I would say don't judge uson those extremes.
(29:49):
Go back to the Bible and as welook at the New Testament we see
a church that's really on fire,brian.
They are full of God.
They've become a habitation ofGod through the Holy Spirit,
both as individuals and as acorporate body.
And that's what I want.
I want to be that kind ofchurch because we live in a
world that needs the work of theHoly Spirit more than first
(30:12):
century world did in the earlychurch.
I don't believe things stoppedwith the last apostle.
I've experienced every miracleI've ever seen in the book of
Acts, except one Philip beingtransported supernaturally.
I haven't seen that, but I'veseen the dead raised.
I've seen people healed.
I've seen prophecies given.
I've seen the miraculous happen, usually not like I expect it,
(30:32):
but God is at work in the world,all over the world, bringing
the good news of Jesus to theworld, and I think what drove
people at Azusa Street thatshould drive us today is what
will it take to be effective inmy generation?
So I think the real question isare you an effective witness
and do you want to be a moreeffective witness?
(30:52):
If so, god promises that hewill empower you when the Holy
Spirit comes on you to be awitness.
So the Holy Spirit comes notjust for all these miracle signs
and some of the extremes we seesometimes.
He fills us up so we can bemore effective at sharing Jesus
with the world in which we live.
And if you're hungry for that,the Holy Spirit will help you do
(31:16):
that.
So don't be afraid.
You don't have to be afraid.
I meet people all the time thatare afraid until they get into
the fullness of the Spirit andthey say, boy, that was easy,
that wasn't so difficult afterall.
And let the Holy Spirit leadyou step by step.
Study the Bible.
Look at all the occasions.
There are five major occasionsin the book of Acts where people
received the baptism of theHoly Spirit as a subsequent
(31:38):
experience to being convertedActs chapter 2, acts chapter 9,.
When Saul of Tarsus receivesthe Holy Spirit after
surrendering to Jesus Christ onthe road to Damascus.
Acts 10, where it sort of allhappened at the same time at
Cornelius' house.
And then Acts 8, where, atSamaria, people are converted to
Christ.
Peter and John come down andlay their hands on them and they
(31:59):
receive the baptism of the HolySpirit.
And then, of course, acts 19,the disciples of John, who Paul
explains about the Holy Spiritto them and they receive the
Holy Spirit and prophesy andspeak in tongues.
And these five occasions peopleexperience something that's
dramatic, something that'ssignificant, something that
empowers them for witness.
(32:19):
And you can experience the same.
So thank you, brian, foropening that door, and I just
pray for those that arelistening.
Join us, join us in reachingthe world for Jesus Christ.
As we relate together, as welove one another, the Holy
Spirit will do his work among usand he'll do his work in your
life.
Brain Stiller (32:38):
Dr Billy Wilson, thank you so much for your time
and for your unwrapping of thismarvelous movement of the last
century.
Billy Wilson (32:47):
Thanks again for joining us, thank you, brian,
great to be with you, appreciateall you're doing.
You're such a great friend anda great ambassador for our
movement and for Christianityaround the world.
God bless you and God blessthis podcast.
Brain Stiller (32:59):
Thanks, billy.
Thank you, dr Wilson, forjoining us today and for helping
us understand this powerful andhistoric witness within the
global church, and thank you forbeing a part of the podcast.
Be sure to share this episodeusing hashtag Evangelical360 and
join in on the conversation onYouTube.
(33:21):
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guest, be sure to
check the show notes for linksand info, and if you haven't
already received my free e-bookand newsletter, just go to
brianstillercom.
Thanks again, until next time,don't miss.
(33:42):
Until next time.
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