October 17, 2025 • 37 mins
A story you think you know—Soviet oppression, majestic cathedrals, and a single, monolithic “Russian Church”—isn’t the story you’ll hear today. With theologian and practitioner Dr. Johannes Reimer, we pull back the curtain on a spiritual landscape where underground resilience meets minority-language revival. From Siberian deportation villages and labour camps to St. Petersburg lecture halls and citywide evangelistic campaigns, Reimer’s journey connects the dots between history, theology, and the lived realities of people finding faith in their mother tongue.
In this episode we explore how forced unions and state oversight fractured evangelical life, why glasnost opened doors faster than churches could adapt, and how a strategic shift after 2000 moved mission beyond Russian-only congregations. Think Tatars worshiping in Tatar, Khanti reindeer herders singing in Khanti, and first-generation believers in Muslim-majority districts planting vibrant churches.
Alongside that, we examine Orthodoxy’s complex ecosystem—monasteries, revivalist circles, and a state-facing Moscow Patriarchate—while weighing the “Russian world” narrative that frames Moscow as a new “Third Rome” with Kyiv as a spiritual keystone. What emerges through this conversation is a map of faith that’s younger, more multilingual, and more local than headlines suggest. Brian and Johannes talk candidly about the line between ministry freedom and political speech, the thinness behind some grand facades, and the unexpected vitality of congregations that honour culture and language.
You can learn more about Dr. Reimer's work and find the published articles referenced in conversation on his website, and follow him through social media.
And please don't forget to share this episode and join the conversation on YouTube!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Stiller (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, Brian Stiller,and I'm pleased to share with
you another conversation withleaders, change makers, and
influencers impacting Christianlife around the world.
My guest today is JohannesReimer.
Born and raised in the formerSoviet Union, Reimer is a German
theologian and former seniorstaff member of the World
(00:32):
Evangelical Alliance, whoseunique life experience provides
a timely perspective on thehistory of Christianity in
Russia.
From the impact andperseverance of the Evangelical
Church in Russia to its oftencomplicated relationship with
the state-supported OrthodoxChurch to the ever-evolving
influence of the evangelicalwitness in the surrounding
(00:54):
countries of Central Asia.
Johannes Reimer is sure toprovide us with rare and
important insights.
Johannes Reimer, thank you forjoining us on Evangelical 360.
Johannes Reimer (01:07):
Glad to be here.
Brian Stiller (01:08):
Johannes, the story of Christian faith in
Russia is a story that continuesto grab our attention.
For me, it began back in theStalin era when the church was
very much under control of thestate.
And then, of course, thatfollowed by the collapse of the
Soviet Union.
And there seemed to be aflourishing, I know, of uh
(01:31):
evangelicals who seem to be veryactive in Russia.
And then the last 10 years, theuh the the Soviet, the Russian
invasion of Ukraine, it'sbrought an enormous number of
changes.
And so I want to get into thatbecause you know that part of
the world better than anybodyelse that I know of.
But I'd like people to get toknow who you are, your
(01:53):
background, where you were born,and what your early years meant
to you and to how you think andoperate today.
Johannes Reimer (02:01):
Well, I was born to a German background
family.
My family uh was living inRussia in Russia for about 200
years in the Caucasian, NorthernCaucasus Mountains.
In 1941, they were deported toKazakhstan, northern Kazakhstan
(02:22):
or Siberia.
I was born in one of thoseSiberian villages, deportation
villages, and the day I wasborn, I was sentenced to 25
years of being deported.
In uh 67, we were free to uhresettle and we settled to
Estonia.
My forefathers came fromKönigsberg or Eastern Prussia,
(02:46):
Kalingrad today.
We were not allowed to go backto Kalingrad, but we lived in
Estonia, and here in Estonia Ibecame a Christian through a
miraculous intervention of God,um, and was very active in the
underground church.
We had a publishing operationin Latvia, and so we were
(03:08):
distributing Bibles in the NewTestament all over the country.
To make story short, I wasasked to leave the university,
and uh at the age of 19, I wasarrested and spent two years in
a labor camp at the Volga River.
And in 1976, coming back home,I decided there was very little
(03:30):
health in me left, and I woulddie anyway, so I decided to sell
my library and went to theNorth Caucasian mountains, going
from town to town,evangelizing.
Finally, KGB arrested me,brought me back to Estonia, and
gave us a very short time toleave the country.
(03:50):
So that was in 76, all the way.
Then in the West, I studiedtheology here, became pastor and
evangelist, studied in America,lived in Canada, uh, South
Africa, and other places, butalways tried to come back,
somehow come back to the formerSoviet Union.
(04:11):
In 1985, we found that LogosInternational, Logos
International was a ministry ofeducation, and that ministry of
education started a number ofschools, like the Lithuanian
Christian University, St.
Petersburg ChristianUniversity, like schools known
today as Odessa TheologicalSeminary, and you name it.
(04:34):
So we were active in more than25 cities of the former Soviet
Union, all of this in theunderground in those years.
And all the way since I've beeninvolved in evangelism, church
planting, organizing missionagencies and helping the church
to grow.
Brian Stiller (04:51):
Remarkable life history.
Johannes, take us back into thetime when the church was an
underground church, whether thatwas evangelical churches or
whether that was uh uh theRussian Orthodox Church.
Walk us through thosepost-Second World War years up
to the fall of the Soviet Empireand the role of the church
(05:12):
within society at that time.
Johannes Reimer (05:15):
Well, we we had the very strong Orthodox uh
reality because uh Stalin uh hemade a deal with the Orthodox
and also with some of theevangelical churches in 43
evangelical Christian andBaptist churches that were
forced into one union.
Pentecostals then had to jointhat union, and uh in the 50s,
(05:39):
even Mennonites had to join.
So there was this whole unioncouncil of evangelical Christian
Baptist churches, which wasquite closely connected to the
governmental offices.
And in 61, we had the firstsplit in that union.
So the underground church wasformed.
In those years, I was a youngboy.
(06:02):
When I became a Christian, Ibecame a Christian in an
underground church setting.
So I came into a church whichwas already split.
And the underground church is avery difficult chapter because
the government did everythingpossible, in my eyes, to let the
underground church stay alive,imprisoning pastors and
(06:25):
evangelists, many of them,creating all kinds of
persecution on the one hand.
On the other hand, they letthem live.
And the basic idea was tofoster disunity.
And that actually functionedwell, I would say.
In Canada, in Winnipeg, we havethe historic archive of the
(06:47):
former Soviet Union in Russia,which I copied 1991 totally, and
then give it to the Mennonitesthere in the Mennonite Heritage
Center.
And if you run through thedocuments of the 1950s, like 54,
55, up to 1960, you will seehow strongly the Soviet system
was trying to create this unityand at the end destroy the
(07:12):
church, the evangelical church,of course.
I have been a part of theevangelical church in my years
in the former Soviet Union, andalso after that, closely
cooperating with those churches,regardless to which wing they
belonged to, because we hadcompromises and state officials
(07:34):
probably in every church in theformer Soviet Union trying to
destroy the congregations.
And then, of course, in 1991,when the Soviet Union broke
apart and some of the republicsbecame independent states,
things changed.
But already before that, underGorbachev, we had a very high
(07:56):
level of freedom to preach thegospel wherever we wanted to.
I would say 85, it startedslowly, and it went up to the
2000th years.
And yeah, and that processcontinues.
Let me make one more comment.
In those years, the church wasquite clearly rusified.
(08:19):
So in a country with 200 ethnicgroups, and Siberia alone has
50 official languages, uh, torun everything, all evangelical
activities in the state forcedlanguage, which is Russian, the
lingua franca, which is Russian,doesn't make much sense because
(08:40):
people would not find Jesusthat way.
This has changed, especiallysince the new openings after the
fall of the Soviet Union, andis actually running strongly
today.
You have churches now in Tatar,in Chuvash, in Chechen, in you
name it, in many, manylanguages, all over the place,
(09:04):
and this is a beautifuldevelopment.
Brian Stiller (09:07):
During that time, what was the role of the
Russian Orthodox Church and whatpermission did the state give
the Russian Orthodox Church tooperate during the time of the
Stalin and during the Sovietera?
Johannes Reimer (09:24):
The problem, Brian, is the very term Russian
Orthodox Church, because therehas never been a unified Russian
Orthodox Church.
It only exists in the media ofthe West.
But if you go into the RussianOrthodox Church, you will see
that there are many, manydivisions and parties, and so
(09:46):
you had the official MoscowPatriarchate, and that system
was quite uh closely dominatedby the by the uh by the Soviet
system regime.
Um but in the Orthodox Churchyou had cloisters, monasteries,
brotherhoods, revivalistmovements, quite close to
(10:09):
evangelicals.
And yeah, like in the laborcamp, I myself met Orthodox
brothers, I would uh say veryclose to my heart.
So you can't talk about theOrthodox.
That is actually a nonsense.
Brian Stiller (10:26):
Okay, the Orthodox Church, though, in
Russia, with its manymanifestations, was it also
controlled during the Sovietera?
Johannes Reimer (10:37):
Well, again, as I said, the Moscow center, the
Moscow Patriarchate, so theofficial center of the Orthodox,
so-called Russian OrthodoxChurch, was, in my view,
completely under the control ofthe Soviet regime.
Brian Stiller (10:53):
And was it under Gorbachev that both the
evangelical and the widerOrthodox communities were given
more liberty?
Johannes Reimer (11:00):
That's right.
Gorbachev pronounced his planof perestroika restructuring and
glassnost, and he actuallyexpresses verbis, invited both
the Orthodox and the evangelicalcircles to participate in that
program.
Sorry to say, Orthodox followedhis appeal, the evangelicals
(11:20):
never did.
Gorbachev himself comes from afamily which has a lot of
evangelical believers.
Brian Stiller (11:29):
And after the fall of the Soviet Empire, there
was an openness, as you'vetalked about, much church
activity both within thetraditional Russian communities
and within the evangelicals aswell.
Johannes Reimer (11:43):
Right.
Right.
Starting with 85, as I saidalready, we received easy access
to the city halls, ranevangelisms, especially since
1989.
Russia was celebrating athousand years of Christianity
(12:03):
on uh Russian soil, and there wereceived all kinds of
permissions.
So thousands and thousands ofpeople would come to our
evangelistic crusades.
I need to say that very few ofthem stayed because the the
churches, especially evangelicalchurches, they were not
prepared to work with thosepeople coming from the street
(12:24):
and from society.
They were far too conservative,evangelically speaking.
Brian Stiller (12:30):
Since the year 2000, when you have the basic uh
control taken over by by Putinand his government, what has
been the state of the churchgenerally in Russia and the
freedoms or curtailments ofthose freedoms?
Johannes Reimer (12:49):
All the way since uh 1991 and the creation
of the so-called Russian worldby Patriarch Kirill.
It's the Orthodox idea ofcreating a end-time reality,
blaming the Western Church forhaving become liberal and so on.
(13:11):
So, all the way since thestartings of the New World,
Russian world, we had a quitegreat openness to evangelize,
especially in Russian, evenevangelical circles.
The evangelicals tried tocreate a new political movement,
(13:33):
arguing that the Byzantinesystem of the symphony between
the church and the emperor, thechurch and the government needs
to be ended.
The last Congress of thatmovement took place in 2010, but
that movement was actually moreor less dismantled.
All the way since theevangelicals in the Russian
(13:57):
Federation start, well, stayedmore or less politically quiet.
But I need to say more or less,because a number of leaders of
the evangelical church, forinstance, the president of the
Pentecostal Union, the Church ofGod Union of Russia, Mr.
Rechovsky, he is a member ofthe Russian parliament.
(14:20):
And I could name you a wholenumber of additional people who
joined the political circles.
And we even had some mayors oflarger cities, evangelical
mayors.
This has softened down to acertain degree what they were
(14:40):
against Ukraine, because theRussian evangelicals did not
want to get involved into anywhatsoever support of the
governmental intervention inUkraine.
And even made very clear thatthey were against that war,
which created for some of thempolitical difficulties, but not
(15:01):
in terms of evangelistic orchurch activity.
Brian Stiller (15:05):
What has been the growth then of the church in
these last since since 2000, forexample?
Johannes Reimer (15:12):
What happened again, uh, up to 2000,
evangelism and church plantingand church growth was usually
done in the Russian language,creating churches,
Russian-speaking churches, evenif those churches were on
territories of ethnicminorities.
(15:32):
Pointing cases, for instance,Tatarstan.
So all the churches inTatarstan were having their
services in Russian, even ifpeople attending the church were
Tatars.
Now, since 2000, this changed.
There is an awareness of theirown nationality, ethnicity, and
(15:53):
attempts to start churches intheir language.
And I would say the Ukrainianwar has even intensified this
because, you know, colonialempires, they tend to dominate
their own population byintroducing one language, one
(16:13):
culture, you name it.
But I just last year I went tothe Khanti people.
Khanti people are people in thein the in Siberian north.
So they are reindeer pastures.
So I was there, and the church,uh the Pentecostal church, I
visited had about 500 members,but their language was Kant, and
(16:37):
uh their singing was in Kant,their whole worship and their
whole Christianity was all Kant,even if the missionary who
started the church came fromUkraine, usually Ukrainian.
And similar tendencies are noweverywhere.
So we the other day we countedthat out of 200 minority groups
(16:59):
in Russia, more than 100 andmaybe 20 of them have already
evangelistic activity and churchplants going on in their own
language and culture.
And that is somethingcompletely new.
It is something completely newand sometimes very successful.
Again, give you an example fromthe Caucasian Mountains.
(17:20):
In the Caucasus, we on theRussian side, the Russian
Russian Federation side, we haveabout 100 language groups and
ethnic groups living there, mostof them traditionally Muslim.
And uh uh well, about 10 yearsago, the um uh churches of God,
(17:41):
Church of God missionarieshaving done their seminary
education in Moscow came to theregion and started to reach out
to those those Muslims, Muslimethn groups.
Today they have more than 45churches, uh growing churches.
About six weeks ago, we startedthe first theological seminary
(18:02):
for Muslim converts, all of themfirst generation people.
It is, of course, in times ofwar, and the world looks to the
the worst situation, and whilethis happens and it's bad, and
it's uh it's uh it is uh wedon't have even to comment, it
is no okay.
But in while this happens, itseems to me that the
(18:26):
Russian-dominated administrationjust overlooks reality in the
ethnic groups and maybe evenallows Christian activity with
the hope that they may join theRussian Christian world.
But that is probably never tobe.
Brian Stiller (18:44):
Are there restrictions by pastors or
schools or ministry initiativesin Russia?
Or is there a is there openfreedom to operate and to serve
in their various rules?
Johannes Reimer (18:57):
Well, I would say to a great extent there's uh
freedom.
I I was for one year after thewar started, I didn't receive
any visa.
Then they gave me a visa again.
For instance, this time I havean annual visa.
I come in and go out whenever Iwant to.
It's a religious visa.
And as long as I stick to areligious task, so I have to
(19:20):
preach the gospel, teach people,evangelize.
So as long as I do that, therehas not been any restriction
whatsoever.
When I start to talkpolitically, then there will be
warnings coming.
And of course, they willprobably never give me again any
visa.
But as long as we stick to ourto the Great Commission, to a
(19:42):
purely religious task, to churchplanting, evangelism, all the
way through all the nations andethnic groups, we are free to
work as far as I see for today.
Brian Stiller (19:54):
How would you describe the strength of the
church in Russia today?
Johannes Reimer (19:58):
Um, I would say uh this incredible opening
towards the ethnic minorities,which needed to happen.
You know, just take a city likeMoscow, 22 million people
officially live in Moscow.
Only 40% of the Moscowpopulation is still European
(20:19):
background.
In other words, Russian,Ukrainian, you name it.
But the rest is all othernations, and most of those uh
Russian nations, they areBuddhist or they traditionally
Buddhist or traditionallyMuslim, um, and they all live
there.
The four largest and four mostprominent universities in Moscow
(20:41):
are Islamic.
So Moscow has become quite anuh international or
intercultural and interreligiouscity.
So the Russian church is neverthought about evangelizing the
other in their own language, intheir own uh tradition.
This has considerably changed.
(21:03):
So you may come to Moscow, likeI was in Moscow last year in a
congregation.
The pastor comes fromTajikistan, and uh they had
about 250 people in attendancethere in that service, and they
told me 16 different ethnicgroups gathered there, and the
Russians were by far a minority.
Brian Stiller (21:26):
Where are pastors trained?
Are there theological schoolsor Bible college in Russia that
uh uh that serve their owncommunity?
Johannes Reimer (21:35):
We have uh I myself started the St.
Petersburg ChristianUniversity, which is one of the
largest in the in the uh inRussia in St.
Petersburg with hundreds ofstudents studying there.
It's an interdenominationalschool.
We have a Pentecostal seminaryin Moscow, we have an
(21:56):
evangelical free seminary, thePentecostal school, uh uh the
Church of God school hashundreds, literally hundreds of
students and also dependenciesin all over the the Russian uh
the Russian uh country.
So there has been no uhrestriction uh for them to work.
(22:19):
They even received uh last yearan official accreditation of
their theological programs asProtestant theology, which has
not been there either.
It was it's a complete newdevelopment.
Brian Stiller (22:32):
And how is does the evangelical community relate
to the broader Russian Orthodoxand its various communities?
Johannes Reimer (22:41):
Well, this is another question.
It is it is in my estimation,not only my estimation, it's
actually data which wereproduced by the Moscow Institute
of Sociological Studies.
The population, the Russianpopulation, the Russia's
population, is has probably nomore than 14% of the population
(23:04):
belonging somehow to theOrthodox Church.
Out of the 14%, only a smallpercentage is active.
So the Russian Orthodox Churchis literally a small reality.
It has all kinds of symbolicpower.
So the government has built uhmonasteries and churches and
(23:26):
cathedrals, and so when you comein, you may see impressive
cathedrals built by, forinstance, the Putin regime.
But uh that says nothing.
If you look behind the scene,you find out that the
congregational life of theRussian Orthodox Church is very
weak, very, very weak.
And um uh in uh the uh ethnic,in the non-Russian ethnic groups
(23:51):
of Russia, you will find veryfew people stick people sticking
to the Orthodox.
A story may uh may just createa picture or an image of what's
going on.
In the 15th century, uh Ivanthe Horrible, the Tsar Ivan the
(24:12):
Horrible, he finally conqueredKazan and pushed the Tatars
away.
So it was a huge, huge victoryfor the Russian state.
And they built in Kazan, in thecity of Kazan, it's a million
population city at the VolgaRiver, they built there a
Kremlin.
Kremlin is a fortified city.
(24:34):
In the middle of the Kremlin,there's a church, uh, Uspenska
church, there were somebuildings, official buildings,
and so on.
That Kazan Kremlin has alwaysbeen a sign of Russian dominance
over the Tatars.
Now just imagine what theTatars did a couple of years
(24:54):
ago.
They built the largest mosquein the Russian Federation in
those years.
Now they now there is a largerone in Grozny, Chechenia, but
they built the largest mosqueright in the middle of that
Kremlin.
So the mosque is about tentimes as big as the Russian
(25:17):
Orthodox Church.
And for this, they had todestroy all the to the uh the
historic buildings.
As even they if as if theywould say, you see, we are back.
We are not the RussianOrthodox, and we are not the
Russians, we are Tatars.
Brian Stiller (25:35):
It's been interesting to watch from my
vantage point, it seems thatPutin has associated himself
with the with the with theOrthodox Church in ways that
seem to be very much contrary tohis his own Soviet communistic
uh inclinations that at leastwere manifest earlier in his
(25:58):
life.
Is this a is this an authenticconversion?
Is it showing his own supportfor the church, or what do you
make of that?
Johannes Reimer (26:07):
Well, I didn't have any conversation with him.
I would love to, but I didn'thave.
So Putin joined the so-calledRussian world in 2007.
So the the organization, theinternational foundation called
Russian World, which is theorthodox Russian foundation
(26:27):
aiming for the third Rome.
They say, well, the first Romewas Rome in Italy, the second
Rome was Rome in uh in theByzantine Empire, all of them
failed, and the third Rome wasgoing to be established in
Moscow.
That's Patriarch Kirill'stheory.
So and uh and for that theycreated an international
(26:47):
foundation with lots of money,and Putin joined that that that
uh religious organization orfoundation in 2007.
I have commented the uh thisreality in Evangelical Focus in
a number of articles showingthat uh what he says sounds very
(27:08):
religious, but in how far he isorthodox, he has become
orthodox, that I don't know.
That idea of the Russian worldfollows an old prophecy coming
out of the 16th century, andthat orthodox prophecy given by
a monk was used in the 19thcentury by the Slavophiles,
(27:31):
creating a Slavic world orSlavic Empire, which was not
successful, and it is now againon the table.
Now the the prophecy says therewill be a time coming where the
Western church is going to endup in the horrible sin of Romans
1.
So especially mentioninghomosexuality and genderism and
(27:55):
all of this.
And when this takes place, thenGod is going to restore his
church in Moscow.
And the person who is going todo this will be an emperor,
Vladimir.
But he will have ananti-Christian uh counterplayer,
and that will also be Vladimir,a Jew.
(28:16):
And that person will be inKyiv.
And no, I'm not making it up.
That's the that's the prophecy.
Brian Stiller (28:24):
And when was that read when was that written?
Johannes Reimer (28:27):
In the 16th century.
And so the story is that uhKyiv needs to be uh brought back
to the Russian church becausethat's what uh Orthodox
Christianity started.
Kyiv is the mother ofeverything.
So it uh taking in account thereligious background of this,
(28:51):
and Patriarch Kirill's idea ofwe have to be back in Kyiv,
otherwise, this idea of Moscowbecoming the third Rome is not
going to work.
Uh that background was was uhwas discussed and implemented a
number of times, and there is awhole world of literature by now
(29:12):
in the Russian language.
Fascinatingly enough, theWestern media and press neglects
it completely.
The Western media creates apost-Soviet dictator by the name
Vladimir Putin, and uh theylike the idea, he is he is on
the on his move to restore theformer Soviet Union because this
(29:36):
this is simple to understand.
But you know, then the firstyear of the war in uh 2022 in
Kyiv, we have all of a suddenall the spiritistically active
Ukrainians gathering, thousandsof them came to Kyiv trying to
kill distantly Vladimir Putin.
(29:58):
At the same time, they gatheredin Moscow.
Moscow, shamans, and you nameit, and they were fighting now
the Ukrainian shamans.
Now tell me what kind of war isthis?
I wrote an article about uhabout this the story because it
was widely told in the Russianmedia, but again, the West was
(30:18):
quiet about it.
And then I sent my article toall leading media in Germany and
and uh in Europe.
You know what their reply was?
Well, that is just a uh astory.
It is it has nothing to do withthe reality.
Reality is political, andpolitical reality is
(30:38):
post-Soviet, and post-Soviet isis trying to restore the Soviet
Empire.
Brian Stiller (30:44):
Johannes, we will we will put your we will put
those articles in our footnotesof this of this podcast.
Let me just ask you this thisone question, though.
So the Russian world, which yousay was formed in 2007?
Johannes Reimer (31:02):
No, Putin joined the Russian world in
2007.
It was formed as soon asPatriarch Kirill became the
patriarch of Russia in thebeginning of the 90s.
Brian Stiller (31:14):
And the objective or the and the expectation of
this Russian world is to makeMoscow the next Rome?
Johannes Reimer (31:23):
The next Rome, the third Rome.
And by the way, they have beenbuying African churches back and
forth everywhere.
And they go to independentAfrican churches, pay money, and
they become Russian Orthodox.
The Russian Orthodox Church, interms of adding of missionary
additions in Africa, is one ofthe mass of the fastest growing
(31:47):
church in Africa.
Brian Stiller (31:48):
As you look at the future, given all of these
realities that you've described,what do you see being the
strength of the evangelicalchurch today and over the years
ahead?
Johannes Reimer (32:00):
Well, first of all, I'm glad the church has
discovered the multi-ethnicityof its being in Russia.
So personally, I don't believethat the Russian Empire is going
to stay alive for very long.
Because there is lots ofdynamics, political dynamics,
(32:22):
showing towards a very instablesystem.
And the the biggest instabilityis the inability of the central
government to uh to create a uhuh once more strong Russian
language and Russianculture-based government or
(32:44):
state.
That society is not working anylonger.
And you see that everywhere inSiberia and the Caucasus and
other places, you see how ethnicgroups form their own
realities, they form their ownautonomous republics, they form
their own governments, they formtheir own culture, they form
(33:05):
their own universities andeducation, and so on.
And this is a complete newdevelopment.
You know, what happens to uhthe Cherkes Republic, for
instance, after they invited usto start an evangelical
university there.
You know, in order to register,officially register the Russian
(33:27):
Evangelical Alliance, Brian, doyou know how many years it took
us?
More than 20 years.
We were registering, officiallyregistering the Evangelical
Alliance of Russia for more than20 years.
Finally, we managed just acouple of years ago.
Uh, you know how long it tookus to register the North uh
(33:49):
Caucasian Evangelical Alliancein Russia?
Brian Stiller (33:55):
One week.
Johannes, your life has spanneda number of decades, and you've
watched the this great country,Russia, with it with an
enormous history, move to avariety of eras.
But as you look at the youngerpeople in Moscow and the
(34:16):
surrounding areas and the standsthat you know so much about the
countries that are surroundingRussia, how would you
characterize young people, theirattitudes, and their
expectations?
Johannes Reimer (34:28):
There is a great spiritual opening,
openness, even not only opening,openness towards spiritual
reality, realities, and towardsthe gospel.
Again, I gave you an examplewhich is just fresh.
Last year we founded the orre-founded the evangelical
(34:50):
alliance in uh Kaliningrad, inEastern Prussia.
It was one of the firstevangelical alliances ever
established.
But then in 1945, Kalingradbecame Russia, was taken away
from Germany, the Germans weresettled away and deported, and
all the way since we didn't haveany evangelical alliance there.
(35:12):
We only had a small Baptist andsmall Pentecostal church that
was on paper.
So when I uh suggested to theregion, let's start an
evangelical, regionalevangelical alliance in
Kalingrad.
They were very happilyinviting, so I went and so we
started it.
(35:32):
But just just imagine, we had18 churches joining us, large
churches, young churches, veryyoung churches, uh so with young
people all over the place, veryactive uh churches.
It was beautiful.
Or another example, you go toWestern Siberia, Tumen, where
(35:55):
our gas came from.
Yeah, so Tumen is one of theprobably most beautiful cities
today of Russia.
In Tumen, we had a small,little, tiny Baptist church
about 25-30 years ago.
Now I visit visited the cityand we started the West Siberian
Evangelical Alliance.
(36:16):
34 congregations took place.
And the largest congregation,the Pentecostal Church, has more
than a thousand members.
Just one shot.
So it all happened now.
And then if you look at theservices and languages, they run
their services in, like I toldyou, the Khanti, for instance,
(36:38):
they are not Russians.
And the uh Tatar, the SiberianTatar, they're not Russians.
And the Komi, they are notRussians.
They never be Russians, uh, butthey find Jesus.
And especially young people aredriving the story.
It's wonderful.
Brian Stiller (36:55):
Johannes Reimer, thank you so much for joining us
on Evangelical 360.
And just uh scratching thesurface for us on the role of
faith within the Russiancommunity.
Thanks again.
Johannes Reimer (37:07):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me and blessing.
Brian Stiller (37:12):
And thank you for being a part of the podcast.
I'd be so grateful if you wouldsubscribe and share this
episode using hashtagevangelical360.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guest, be sure to
check the show notes ordescription below.
And if you haven't alreadyreceived my free ebook and
newsletter, just go toBrianStiller.com.
(37:34):
Thank you.
And until next time.
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, Brian Stiller,and I'm pleased to share with
you another conversation withleaders, change makers, and
influencers impacting Christianlife around the world.
My guest today is JohannesReimer.
Born and raised in the formerSoviet Union, Reimer is a German
theologian and former seniorstaff member of the World
(00:32):
Evangelical Alliance, whoseunique life experience provides
a timely perspective on thehistory of Christianity in
Russia.
From the impact andperseverance of the Evangelical
Church in Russia to its oftencomplicated relationship with
the state-supported OrthodoxChurch to the ever-evolving
influence of the evangelicalwitness in the surrounding
(00:54):
countries of Central Asia.
Johannes Reimer is sure toprovide us with rare and
important insights.
Johannes Reimer, thank you forjoining us on Evangelical 360.
Johannes Reimer (01:07):
Glad to be here.
Brian Stiller (01:08):
Johannes, the story of Christian faith in
Russia is a story that continuesto grab our attention.
For me, it began back in theStalin era when the church was
very much under control of thestate.
And then, of course, thatfollowed by the collapse of the
Soviet Union.
And there seemed to be aflourishing, I know, of uh
(01:31):
evangelicals who seem to be veryactive in Russia.
And then the last 10 years, theuh the the Soviet, the Russian
invasion of Ukraine, it'sbrought an enormous number of
changes.
And so I want to get into thatbecause you know that part of
the world better than anybodyelse that I know of.
But I'd like people to get toknow who you are, your
(01:53):
background, where you were born,and what your early years meant
to you and to how you think andoperate today.
Johannes Reimer (02:01):
Well, I was born to a German background
family.
My family uh was living inRussia in Russia for about 200
years in the Caucasian, NorthernCaucasus Mountains.
In 1941, they were deported toKazakhstan, northern Kazakhstan
(02:22):
or Siberia.
I was born in one of thoseSiberian villages, deportation
villages, and the day I wasborn, I was sentenced to 25
years of being deported.
In uh 67, we were free to uhresettle and we settled to
Estonia.
My forefathers came fromKönigsberg or Eastern Prussia,
(02:46):
Kalingrad today.
We were not allowed to go backto Kalingrad, but we lived in
Estonia, and here in Estonia Ibecame a Christian through a
miraculous intervention of God,um, and was very active in the
underground church.
We had a publishing operationin Latvia, and so we were
(03:08):
distributing Bibles in the NewTestament all over the country.
To make story short, I wasasked to leave the university,
and uh at the age of 19, I wasarrested and spent two years in
a labor camp at the Volga River.
And in 1976, coming back home,I decided there was very little
(03:30):
health in me left, and I woulddie anyway, so I decided to sell
my library and went to theNorth Caucasian mountains, going
from town to town,evangelizing.
Finally, KGB arrested me,brought me back to Estonia, and
gave us a very short time toleave the country.
(03:50):
So that was in 76, all the way.
Then in the West, I studiedtheology here, became pastor and
evangelist, studied in America,lived in Canada, uh, South
Africa, and other places, butalways tried to come back,
somehow come back to the formerSoviet Union.
(04:11):
In 1985, we found that LogosInternational, Logos
International was a ministry ofeducation, and that ministry of
education started a number ofschools, like the Lithuanian
Christian University, St.
Petersburg ChristianUniversity, like schools known
today as Odessa TheologicalSeminary, and you name it.
(04:34):
So we were active in more than25 cities of the former Soviet
Union, all of this in theunderground in those years.
And all the way since I've beeninvolved in evangelism, church
planting, organizing missionagencies and helping the church
to grow.
Brian Stiller (04:51):
Remarkable life history.
Johannes, take us back into thetime when the church was an
underground church, whether thatwas evangelical churches or
whether that was uh uh theRussian Orthodox Church.
Walk us through thosepost-Second World War years up
to the fall of the Soviet Empireand the role of the church
(05:12):
within society at that time.
Johannes Reimer (05:15):
Well, we we had the very strong Orthodox uh
reality because uh Stalin uh hemade a deal with the Orthodox
and also with some of theevangelical churches in 43
evangelical Christian andBaptist churches that were
forced into one union.
Pentecostals then had to jointhat union, and uh in the 50s,
(05:39):
even Mennonites had to join.
So there was this whole unioncouncil of evangelical Christian
Baptist churches, which wasquite closely connected to the
governmental offices.
And in 61, we had the firstsplit in that union.
So the underground church wasformed.
In those years, I was a youngboy.
(06:02):
When I became a Christian, Ibecame a Christian in an
underground church setting.
So I came into a church whichwas already split.
And the underground church is avery difficult chapter because
the government did everythingpossible, in my eyes, to let the
underground church stay alive,imprisoning pastors and
(06:25):
evangelists, many of them,creating all kinds of
persecution on the one hand.
On the other hand, they letthem live.
And the basic idea was tofoster disunity.
And that actually functionedwell, I would say.
In Canada, in Winnipeg, we havethe historic archive of the
(06:47):
former Soviet Union in Russia,which I copied 1991 totally, and
then give it to the Mennonitesthere in the Mennonite Heritage
Center.
And if you run through thedocuments of the 1950s, like 54,
55, up to 1960, you will seehow strongly the Soviet system
was trying to create this unityand at the end destroy the
(07:12):
church, the evangelical church,of course.
I have been a part of theevangelical church in my years
in the former Soviet Union, andalso after that, closely
cooperating with those churches,regardless to which wing they
belonged to, because we hadcompromises and state officials
(07:34):
probably in every church in theformer Soviet Union trying to
destroy the congregations.
And then, of course, in 1991,when the Soviet Union broke
apart and some of the republicsbecame independent states,
things changed.
But already before that, underGorbachev, we had a very high
(07:56):
level of freedom to preach thegospel wherever we wanted to.
I would say 85, it startedslowly, and it went up to the
2000th years.
And yeah, and that processcontinues.
Let me make one more comment.
In those years, the church wasquite clearly rusified.
(08:19):
So in a country with 200 ethnicgroups, and Siberia alone has
50 official languages, uh, torun everything, all evangelical
activities in the state forcedlanguage, which is Russian, the
lingua franca, which is Russian,doesn't make much sense because
(08:40):
people would not find Jesusthat way.
This has changed, especiallysince the new openings after the
fall of the Soviet Union, andis actually running strongly
today.
You have churches now in Tatar,in Chuvash, in Chechen, in you
name it, in many, manylanguages, all over the place,
(09:04):
and this is a beautifuldevelopment.
Brian Stiller (09:07):
During that time, what was the role of the
Russian Orthodox Church and whatpermission did the state give
the Russian Orthodox Church tooperate during the time of the
Stalin and during the Sovietera?
Johannes Reimer (09:24):
The problem, Brian, is the very term Russian
Orthodox Church, because therehas never been a unified Russian
Orthodox Church.
It only exists in the media ofthe West.
But if you go into the RussianOrthodox Church, you will see
that there are many, manydivisions and parties, and so
(09:46):
you had the official MoscowPatriarchate, and that system
was quite uh closely dominatedby the by the uh by the Soviet
system regime.
Um but in the Orthodox Churchyou had cloisters, monasteries,
brotherhoods, revivalistmovements, quite close to
(10:09):
evangelicals.
And yeah, like in the laborcamp, I myself met Orthodox
brothers, I would uh say veryclose to my heart.
So you can't talk about theOrthodox.
That is actually a nonsense.
Brian Stiller (10:26):
Okay, the Orthodox Church, though, in
Russia, with its manymanifestations, was it also
controlled during the Sovietera?
Johannes Reimer (10:37):
Well, again, as I said, the Moscow center, the
Moscow Patriarchate, so theofficial center of the Orthodox,
so-called Russian OrthodoxChurch, was, in my view,
completely under the control ofthe Soviet regime.
Brian Stiller (10:53):
And was it under Gorbachev that both the
evangelical and the widerOrthodox communities were given
more liberty?
Johannes Reimer (11:00):
That's right.
Gorbachev pronounced his planof perestroika restructuring and
glassnost, and he actuallyexpresses verbis, invited both
the Orthodox and the evangelicalcircles to participate in that
program.
Sorry to say, Orthodox followedhis appeal, the evangelicals
(11:20):
never did.
Gorbachev himself comes from afamily which has a lot of
evangelical believers.
Brian Stiller (11:29):
And after the fall of the Soviet Empire, there
was an openness, as you'vetalked about, much church
activity both within thetraditional Russian communities
and within the evangelicals aswell.
Johannes Reimer (11:43):
Right.
Right.
Starting with 85, as I saidalready, we received easy access
to the city halls, ranevangelisms, especially since
1989.
Russia was celebrating athousand years of Christianity
(12:03):
on uh Russian soil, and there wereceived all kinds of
permissions.
So thousands and thousands ofpeople would come to our
evangelistic crusades.
I need to say that very few ofthem stayed because the the
churches, especially evangelicalchurches, they were not
prepared to work with thosepeople coming from the street
(12:24):
and from society.
They were far too conservative,evangelically speaking.
Brian Stiller (12:30):
Since the year 2000, when you have the basic uh
control taken over by by Putinand his government, what has
been the state of the churchgenerally in Russia and the
freedoms or curtailments ofthose freedoms?
Johannes Reimer (12:49):
All the way since uh 1991 and the creation
of the so-called Russian worldby Patriarch Kirill.
It's the Orthodox idea ofcreating a end-time reality,
blaming the Western Church forhaving become liberal and so on.
(13:11):
So, all the way since thestartings of the New World,
Russian world, we had a quitegreat openness to evangelize,
especially in Russian, evenevangelical circles.
The evangelicals tried tocreate a new political movement,
(13:33):
arguing that the Byzantinesystem of the symphony between
the church and the emperor, thechurch and the government needs
to be ended.
The last Congress of thatmovement took place in 2010, but
that movement was actually moreor less dismantled.
All the way since theevangelicals in the Russian
(13:57):
Federation start, well, stayedmore or less politically quiet.
But I need to say more or less,because a number of leaders of
the evangelical church, forinstance, the president of the
Pentecostal Union, the Church ofGod Union of Russia, Mr.
Rechovsky, he is a member ofthe Russian parliament.
(14:20):
And I could name you a wholenumber of additional people who
joined the political circles.
And we even had some mayors oflarger cities, evangelical
mayors.
This has softened down to acertain degree what they were
(14:40):
against Ukraine, because theRussian evangelicals did not
want to get involved into anywhatsoever support of the
governmental intervention inUkraine.
And even made very clear thatthey were against that war,
which created for some of thempolitical difficulties, but not
(15:01):
in terms of evangelistic orchurch activity.
Brian Stiller (15:05):
What has been the growth then of the church in
these last since since 2000, forexample?
Johannes Reimer (15:12):
What happened again, uh, up to 2000,
evangelism and church plantingand church growth was usually
done in the Russian language,creating churches,
Russian-speaking churches, evenif those churches were on
territories of ethnicminorities.
(15:32):
Pointing cases, for instance,Tatarstan.
So all the churches inTatarstan were having their
services in Russian, even ifpeople attending the church were
Tatars.
Now, since 2000, this changed.
There is an awareness of theirown nationality, ethnicity, and
(15:53):
attempts to start churches intheir language.
And I would say the Ukrainianwar has even intensified this
because, you know, colonialempires, they tend to dominate
their own population byintroducing one language, one
(16:13):
culture, you name it.
But I just last year I went tothe Khanti people.
Khanti people are people in thein the in Siberian north.
So they are reindeer pastures.
So I was there, and the church,uh the Pentecostal church, I
visited had about 500 members,but their language was Kant, and
(16:37):
uh their singing was in Kant,their whole worship and their
whole Christianity was all Kant,even if the missionary who
started the church came fromUkraine, usually Ukrainian.
And similar tendencies are noweverywhere.
So we the other day we countedthat out of 200 minority groups
(16:59):
in Russia, more than 100 andmaybe 20 of them have already
evangelistic activity and churchplants going on in their own
language and culture.
And that is somethingcompletely new.
It is something completely newand sometimes very successful.
Again, give you an example fromthe Caucasian Mountains.
(17:20):
In the Caucasus, we on theRussian side, the Russian
Russian Federation side, we haveabout 100 language groups and
ethnic groups living there, mostof them traditionally Muslim.
And uh uh well, about 10 yearsago, the um uh churches of God,
(17:41):
Church of God missionarieshaving done their seminary
education in Moscow came to theregion and started to reach out
to those those Muslims, Muslimethn groups.
Today they have more than 45churches, uh growing churches.
About six weeks ago, we startedthe first theological seminary
(18:02):
for Muslim converts, all of themfirst generation people.
It is, of course, in times ofwar, and the world looks to the
the worst situation, and whilethis happens and it's bad, and
it's uh it's uh it is uh wedon't have even to comment, it
is no okay.
But in while this happens, itseems to me that the
(18:26):
Russian-dominated administrationjust overlooks reality in the
ethnic groups and maybe evenallows Christian activity with
the hope that they may join theRussian Christian world.
But that is probably never tobe.
Brian Stiller (18:44):
Are there restrictions by pastors or
schools or ministry initiativesin Russia?
Or is there a is there openfreedom to operate and to serve
in their various rules?
Johannes Reimer (18:57):
Well, I would say to a great extent there's uh
freedom.
I I was for one year after thewar started, I didn't receive
any visa.
Then they gave me a visa again.
For instance, this time I havean annual visa.
I come in and go out whenever Iwant to.
It's a religious visa.
And as long as I stick to areligious task, so I have to
(19:20):
preach the gospel, teach people,evangelize.
So as long as I do that, therehas not been any restriction
whatsoever.
When I start to talkpolitically, then there will be
warnings coming.
And of course, they willprobably never give me again any
visa.
But as long as we stick to ourto the Great Commission, to a
(19:42):
purely religious task, to churchplanting, evangelism, all the
way through all the nations andethnic groups, we are free to
work as far as I see for today.
Brian Stiller (19:54):
How would you describe the strength of the
church in Russia today?
Johannes Reimer (19:58):
Um, I would say uh this incredible opening
towards the ethnic minorities,which needed to happen.
You know, just take a city likeMoscow, 22 million people
officially live in Moscow.
Only 40% of the Moscowpopulation is still European
(20:19):
background.
In other words, Russian,Ukrainian, you name it.
But the rest is all othernations, and most of those uh
Russian nations, they areBuddhist or they traditionally
Buddhist or traditionallyMuslim, um, and they all live
there.
The four largest and four mostprominent universities in Moscow
(20:41):
are Islamic.
So Moscow has become quite anuh international or
intercultural and interreligiouscity.
So the Russian church is neverthought about evangelizing the
other in their own language, intheir own uh tradition.
This has considerably changed.
(21:03):
So you may come to Moscow, likeI was in Moscow last year in a
congregation.
The pastor comes fromTajikistan, and uh they had
about 250 people in attendancethere in that service, and they
told me 16 different ethnicgroups gathered there, and the
Russians were by far a minority.
Brian Stiller (21:26):
Where are pastors trained?
Are there theological schoolsor Bible college in Russia that
uh uh that serve their owncommunity?
Johannes Reimer (21:35):
We have uh I myself started the St.
Petersburg ChristianUniversity, which is one of the
largest in the in the uh inRussia in St.
Petersburg with hundreds ofstudents studying there.
It's an interdenominationalschool.
We have a Pentecostal seminaryin Moscow, we have an
(21:56):
evangelical free seminary, thePentecostal school, uh uh the
Church of God school hashundreds, literally hundreds of
students and also dependenciesin all over the the Russian uh
the Russian uh country.
So there has been no uhrestriction uh for them to work.
(22:19):
They even received uh last yearan official accreditation of
their theological programs asProtestant theology, which has
not been there either.
It was it's a complete newdevelopment.
Brian Stiller (22:32):
And how is does the evangelical community relate
to the broader Russian Orthodoxand its various communities?
Johannes Reimer (22:41):
Well, this is another question.
It is it is in my estimation,not only my estimation, it's
actually data which wereproduced by the Moscow Institute
of Sociological Studies.
The population, the Russianpopulation, the Russia's
population, is has probably nomore than 14% of the population
(23:04):
belonging somehow to theOrthodox Church.
Out of the 14%, only a smallpercentage is active.
So the Russian Orthodox Churchis literally a small reality.
It has all kinds of symbolicpower.
So the government has built uhmonasteries and churches and
(23:26):
cathedrals, and so when you comein, you may see impressive
cathedrals built by, forinstance, the Putin regime.
But uh that says nothing.
If you look behind the scene,you find out that the
congregational life of theRussian Orthodox Church is very
weak, very, very weak.
And um uh in uh the uh ethnic,in the non-Russian ethnic groups
(23:51):
of Russia, you will find veryfew people stick people sticking
to the Orthodox.
A story may uh may just createa picture or an image of what's
going on.
In the 15th century, uh Ivanthe Horrible, the Tsar Ivan the
(24:12):
Horrible, he finally conqueredKazan and pushed the Tatars
away.
So it was a huge, huge victoryfor the Russian state.
And they built in Kazan, in thecity of Kazan, it's a million
population city at the VolgaRiver, they built there a
Kremlin.
Kremlin is a fortified city.
(24:34):
In the middle of the Kremlin,there's a church, uh, Uspenska
church, there were somebuildings, official buildings,
and so on.
That Kazan Kremlin has alwaysbeen a sign of Russian dominance
over the Tatars.
Now just imagine what theTatars did a couple of years
(24:54):
ago.
They built the largest mosquein the Russian Federation in
those years.
Now they now there is a largerone in Grozny, Chechenia, but
they built the largest mosqueright in the middle of that
Kremlin.
So the mosque is about tentimes as big as the Russian
(25:17):
Orthodox Church.
And for this, they had todestroy all the to the uh the
historic buildings.
As even they if as if theywould say, you see, we are back.
We are not the RussianOrthodox, and we are not the
Russians, we are Tatars.
Brian Stiller (25:35):
It's been interesting to watch from my
vantage point, it seems thatPutin has associated himself
with the with the with theOrthodox Church in ways that
seem to be very much contrary tohis his own Soviet communistic
uh inclinations that at leastwere manifest earlier in his
(25:58):
life.
Is this a is this an authenticconversion?
Is it showing his own supportfor the church, or what do you
make of that?
Johannes Reimer (26:07):
Well, I didn't have any conversation with him.
I would love to, but I didn'thave.
So Putin joined the so-calledRussian world in 2007.
So the the organization, theinternational foundation called
Russian World, which is theorthodox Russian foundation
(26:27):
aiming for the third Rome.
They say, well, the first Romewas Rome in Italy, the second
Rome was Rome in uh in theByzantine Empire, all of them
failed, and the third Rome wasgoing to be established in
Moscow.
That's Patriarch Kirill'stheory.
So and uh and for that theycreated an international
(26:47):
foundation with lots of money,and Putin joined that that that
uh religious organization orfoundation in 2007.
I have commented the uh thisreality in Evangelical Focus in
a number of articles showingthat uh what he says sounds very
(27:08):
religious, but in how far he isorthodox, he has become
orthodox, that I don't know.
That idea of the Russian worldfollows an old prophecy coming
out of the 16th century, andthat orthodox prophecy given by
a monk was used in the 19thcentury by the Slavophiles,
(27:31):
creating a Slavic world orSlavic Empire, which was not
successful, and it is now againon the table.
Now the the prophecy says therewill be a time coming where the
Western church is going to endup in the horrible sin of Romans
1.
So especially mentioninghomosexuality and genderism and
(27:55):
all of this.
And when this takes place, thenGod is going to restore his
church in Moscow.
And the person who is going todo this will be an emperor,
Vladimir.
But he will have ananti-Christian uh counterplayer,
and that will also be Vladimir,a Jew.
(28:16):
And that person will be inKyiv.
And no, I'm not making it up.
That's the that's the prophecy.
Brian Stiller (28:24):
And when was that read when was that written?
Johannes Reimer (28:27):
In the 16th century.
And so the story is that uhKyiv needs to be uh brought back
to the Russian church becausethat's what uh Orthodox
Christianity started.
Kyiv is the mother ofeverything.
So it uh taking in account thereligious background of this,
(28:51):
and Patriarch Kirill's idea ofwe have to be back in Kyiv,
otherwise, this idea of Moscowbecoming the third Rome is not
going to work.
Uh that background was was uhwas discussed and implemented a
number of times, and there is awhole world of literature by now
(29:12):
in the Russian language.
Fascinatingly enough, theWestern media and press neglects
it completely.
The Western media creates apost-Soviet dictator by the name
Vladimir Putin, and uh theylike the idea, he is he is on
the on his move to restore theformer Soviet Union because this
(29:36):
this is simple to understand.
But you know, then the firstyear of the war in uh 2022 in
Kyiv, we have all of a suddenall the spiritistically active
Ukrainians gathering, thousandsof them came to Kyiv trying to
kill distantly Vladimir Putin.
(29:58):
At the same time, they gatheredin Moscow.
Moscow, shamans, and you nameit, and they were fighting now
the Ukrainian shamans.
Now tell me what kind of war isthis?
I wrote an article about uhabout this the story because it
was widely told in the Russianmedia, but again, the West was
(30:18):
quiet about it.
And then I sent my article toall leading media in Germany and
and uh in Europe.
You know what their reply was?
Well, that is just a uh astory.
It is it has nothing to do withthe reality.
Reality is political, andpolitical reality is
(30:38):
post-Soviet, and post-Soviet isis trying to restore the Soviet
Empire.
Brian Stiller (30:44):
Johannes, we will we will put your we will put
those articles in our footnotesof this of this podcast.
Let me just ask you this thisone question, though.
So the Russian world, which yousay was formed in 2007?
Johannes Reimer (31:02):
No, Putin joined the Russian world in
2007.
It was formed as soon asPatriarch Kirill became the
patriarch of Russia in thebeginning of the 90s.
Brian Stiller (31:14):
And the objective or the and the expectation of
this Russian world is to makeMoscow the next Rome?
Johannes Reimer (31:23):
The next Rome, the third Rome.
And by the way, they have beenbuying African churches back and
forth everywhere.
And they go to independentAfrican churches, pay money, and
they become Russian Orthodox.
The Russian Orthodox Church, interms of adding of missionary
additions in Africa, is one ofthe mass of the fastest growing
(31:47):
church in Africa.
Brian Stiller (31:48):
As you look at the future, given all of these
realities that you've described,what do you see being the
strength of the evangelicalchurch today and over the years
ahead?
Johannes Reimer (32:00):
Well, first of all, I'm glad the church has
discovered the multi-ethnicityof its being in Russia.
So personally, I don't believethat the Russian Empire is going
to stay alive for very long.
Because there is lots ofdynamics, political dynamics,
(32:22):
showing towards a very instablesystem.
And the the biggest instabilityis the inability of the central
government to uh to create a uhuh once more strong Russian
language and Russianculture-based government or
(32:44):
state.
That society is not working anylonger.
And you see that everywhere inSiberia and the Caucasus and
other places, you see how ethnicgroups form their own
realities, they form their ownautonomous republics, they form
their own governments, they formtheir own culture, they form
(33:05):
their own universities andeducation, and so on.
And this is a complete newdevelopment.
You know, what happens to uhthe Cherkes Republic, for
instance, after they invited usto start an evangelical
university there.
You know, in order to register,officially register the Russian
(33:27):
Evangelical Alliance, Brian, doyou know how many years it took
us?
More than 20 years.
We were registering, officiallyregistering the Evangelical
Alliance of Russia for more than20 years.
Finally, we managed just acouple of years ago.
Uh, you know how long it tookus to register the North uh
(33:49):
Caucasian Evangelical Alliancein Russia?
Brian Stiller (33:55):
One week.
Johannes, your life has spanneda number of decades, and you've
watched the this great country,Russia, with it with an
enormous history, move to avariety of eras.
But as you look at the youngerpeople in Moscow and the
(34:16):
surrounding areas and the standsthat you know so much about the
countries that are surroundingRussia, how would you
characterize young people, theirattitudes, and their
expectations?
Johannes Reimer (34:28):
There is a great spiritual opening,
openness, even not only opening,openness towards spiritual
reality, realities, and towardsthe gospel.
Again, I gave you an examplewhich is just fresh.
Last year we founded the orre-founded the evangelical
(34:50):
alliance in uh Kaliningrad, inEastern Prussia.
It was one of the firstevangelical alliances ever
established.
But then in 1945, Kalingradbecame Russia, was taken away
from Germany, the Germans weresettled away and deported, and
all the way since we didn't haveany evangelical alliance there.
(35:12):
We only had a small Baptist andsmall Pentecostal church that
was on paper.
So when I uh suggested to theregion, let's start an
evangelical, regionalevangelical alliance in
Kalingrad.
They were very happilyinviting, so I went and so we
started it.
(35:32):
But just just imagine, we had18 churches joining us, large
churches, young churches, veryyoung churches, uh so with young
people all over the place, veryactive uh churches.
It was beautiful.
Or another example, you go toWestern Siberia, Tumen, where
(35:55):
our gas came from.
Yeah, so Tumen is one of theprobably most beautiful cities
today of Russia.
In Tumen, we had a small,little, tiny Baptist church
about 25-30 years ago.
Now I visit visited the cityand we started the West Siberian
Evangelical Alliance.
(36:16):
34 congregations took place.
And the largest congregation,the Pentecostal Church, has more
than a thousand members.
Just one shot.
So it all happened now.
And then if you look at theservices and languages, they run
their services in, like I toldyou, the Khanti, for instance,
(36:38):
they are not Russians.
And the uh Tatar, the SiberianTatar, they're not Russians.
And the Komi, they are notRussians.
They never be Russians, uh, butthey find Jesus.
And especially young people aredriving the story.
It's wonderful.
Brian Stiller (36:55):
Johannes Reimer, thank you so much for joining us
on Evangelical 360.
And just uh scratching thesurface for us on the role of
faith within the Russiancommunity.
Thanks again.
Johannes Reimer (37:07):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me and blessing.
Brian Stiller (37:12):
And thank you for being a part of the podcast.
I'd be so grateful if you wouldsubscribe and share this
episode using hashtagevangelical360.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guest, be sure to
check the show notes ordescription below.
And if you haven't alreadyreceived my free ebook and
newsletter, just go toBrianStiller.com.
(37:34):
Thank you.
And until next time.
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