December 12, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the richest thing you leave your family isn’t money at all? In this episode we sit down with investment advisor, Tim Jenkins, who helps us reframe wealth through the lens of stewardship, generosity and multi‑generational wisdom. Instead of asking how to get a little more, we ask how much is enough? What values do we want to pass on? And why might giving now be the most strategic move for the next generation.
In this conversation Tim Jenkins breaks down the cultural lies that fuel money stress—ownership thinking, the myth that more simplifies life, and the narrow focus on dollars alone. He introduces five currencies of wealth—financial, spiritual, relational, emotional, and intellectual—and shows how legacies crumble when only one currency is transferred. We unpack the sobering 90/10 rule showing why most fortunes don’t reach the fourth generation. Then we map a path to reverse it by teaching principles, involving heirs in giving decisions, and documenting the family playbook.
Whether you lead a family enterprise or steward a modest estate, the same truths apply: money reveals the heart, and planning with purpose can turn anxiety into peace. If you'd like to learn more with Tim Jenkins you can reach out to Trinity Family Wealth Advisors and find him through social media.
And please don't forget to share this episode and join the conversation on YouTube!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Stiller (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, Brian Stiller.
Nothing seems to catch voters'attention like the economy.
Governments rise and fall onhow their people view their
handling of money.
Countries batter each other intrying to extract as much as
they can from others, all in theunending search for a better
(00:33):
tax break for their owncitizens.
As an advisor to a former U.S.
president said, it's theeconomy stupid.
As much as we protest, therelationships matter most.
Sometimes the need to earnmoney takes over.
Our culture breeds the notionthat earning a lot of money or
(00:53):
getting the best deal I can findshows how smart I am.
Getting things in life becomesthe unspoken mantra of our
society.
If I were judged on a spectrumof getters and givers from one
to ten, with the best giversbeing numbered ten, I wonder
where I'd put myself and wheremight my friends place me.
(01:17):
Yet in life, nothing beginsunless something's given away.
Something doesn't come out ofnothing.
The giving of life begets life.
You and I began that way.
My mom and dad each gave uptheir life to create this one
many years ago.
That golden crop of grain yousee didn't grow up as market
(01:40):
ready without the farmer havingseed grain in store and then
planting it at the right time.
Had it stayed in storage with alet's keep this for ourselves
sign, it would have stayed asis.
But when given away or seeded,it multiplies.
Here's my point.
Giving is as close to theregeneration and remaking of a
(02:05):
people as I can imagine.
It's defining, it's renewing,it refills life.
Without it, we die.
Tim Jenkins helping peoplerediscover this essence of
giving.
As an investment advisor, hefinds that as he helps his
clients give money away, thatvery process brings life and
(02:26):
renewed vigor to those who, intheir generosity, discover this
essential component of living.
So thanks for joining me today.
Please consider sharing thisepisode with a friend.
And if you haven't done soalready, please hit the
subscribe button.
And you can also join theconversation on YouTube in the
comments below.
Now to my guest, Tim Jenkins.
Tim Jenkins (02:54):
You're welcome.
A regular listener.
It's a joy to be here.
Brian Stiller (02:57):
Oh, thanks, Tim.
Tim, we are living at a timewhen there is an enormous
transfer of funds from onegeneration to another.
As I understand, there's moremoney being transferred than
ever in the world's history.
So you've got this movement ofmoney.
There are some who have a lotof money to transfer, some that
(03:20):
have modest amounts, and somethat don't have a lot.
But money concerns us all.
As a as someone who consults ongiving and money management,
what are the mistakes that mostof us make when it comes to our
money management?
Tim Jenkins (03:35):
Great question, Brian.
I think the first thing is weget confused as to who the owner
is.
We think because we earned itor it grew or however we
received it, that it's ours.
It's not ours.
We're simply a steward.
We're going to be a manager.
And for us to think that I getto make all the decisions, and
that's where the decisions stop,is wrong.
(03:58):
And as a result, that reallycreates a challenge in our
thinking and allows us or keepsus from making good decisions.
So what are those baddecisions?
So one thing would be, as Isaid, we don't ask the owner
what their uh wishes are orintent is.
Another thing would be tosimply look at a lot of the lies
(04:21):
about money that our culturetells us.
Um, and and maybe even ourfaith background is uh
suggesting to us.
So some of those lies that weall live with are things like
just a little bit more is all Ineed, and life will be so much
better.
Uh, we work uh with clientsthat have been blessed with a
(04:42):
lot of finances.
And uh our business could notwould not exist if life got
easier the more money we had.
We see more complexity the morewe have.
We see more uh time that isrequired to manage that
resource, uh, more energy, morefocus, more um, it's easier
often to focus on our assets andour wealth, uh financial
(05:05):
wealth, than it would be to gohome now because we've got
family at home or uh those typesof things.
Money makes um having more addscomplexity to our life.
The other thing that mostpeople don't know is not only
does it add complexity, it addsa different level of, I'm gonna
(05:27):
call it stress.
Maybe stress is the wrong word,but it brings a level of danger
that families that don't havesignificant wealth don't have.
And um, we need to be aware ofthat and we need to work with
our children so that we canavoid that danger uh and some of
those things that happen.
(05:47):
So one of the lies is uh alittle bit more is all we need.
Another lie is it's it's mymoney, uh, and I can do whatever
I want with it.
Or we may paraphrase that alittle bit.
We may put the quote uh Sundayschool label on that and say,
well, 90% is or whatever percentyou want to say is our money.
(06:07):
Uh we just need to set thisaside and then we can do
whatever we want with the rest.
I don't think that's a biblicalprinciple either.
Another lie that would come toour mind is the fact that we
focus on one currency.
I believe there's multiplecurrencies.
So when we talk about wealthtoday, Brian, uh naturally
people will think money.
They will think finance.
(06:27):
I think our wealth is based onfinance for sure.
But is there such a thing asspiritual wealth?
I believe there is.
What about relational wealth,the the wealth within our
family, the wealth within ourfriend group, the wealth within
our peers at work or whereverour network is?
What about our intellectualwealth?
(06:48):
Understanding how things work,if you're in business or if
you're in a differentprofession, uh, or just
understanding how life works.
Um, those are all forms ofwealth.
What about emotional wealth?
Uh, that's really important.
And we've seen that in the lastdecade, even more important.
So as we look at wealth, weshouldn't be looking at it and
(07:08):
just thinking about money.
In fact, when we talk with uhour clients and with parents
especially, we talk about umwhat is the greatest asset that
you want to transfer?
Um, the question would be (07:20):
if you could only transfer one form
of wealth between financial,spiritual, relational,
emotional, and intellectual,you've got to bankrupt four of
those.
You can pass one, what wouldyou pass?
I find that question really apowerful question because it it
(07:45):
cuts out the noise.
And as a parent, you get to seewhat's the most important thing
to me.
Now, the second question wewill ask is we'll say the same
thing.
If you could pass four now ofthose, uh spiritual, financial,
relational, emotional, andintellectual, you can pass four
of them, but you got to bankruptone.
(08:06):
What's the one you willbankrupt?
That helps parents reallycrystallize what's so important.
But here's the problem, Brian.
As they talk to their financialadvisor or whoever else is in
their life that's helping themwith finance, how often do we
talk about the other currencies?
We don't.
That's those other thingstypically.
(08:28):
It would be rare.
I can't think of a situationwhere honestly someone has said
money's the most important.
There are people that would saythat, and that's their choice.
But for most parents that Italk to, it's something else.
Therefore, when we talk aboutwealth transfer, we want to deal
with money.
But there's other assets waymore valuable.
(08:50):
We got to think about that.
We got to think about who's thenext steward of those resources
and what do they need to know?
What don't they know already?
And how do we fill in the gaps?
We've been, we've been decadeslearning these skill sets, uh,
and we need to pass those on.
Um, successful families passthat on proactively, but most
(09:14):
people don't even think aboutit.
And so we've spent decadesbuilding financial wealth, but
building all these other formsof wealth, and likely we go to
our grave without having passedthat on to the next generation,
certainly not to the thirdgeneration, because we don't
have the interaction that theydidn't grow up in our home.
So um, those are some reallyimportant factors, Brian, that
(09:40):
um are skewed because ourculture is not talking about
this.
Um, and yet God's word is justfilled with wisdom and
direction, very plaininstructions, 2,350 verses in
God's word talk about money orpossessions.
God's not wanting us to beunaware of this, he's not
(10:02):
wanting us to not live life wellwhen it comes to our wealth.
Um, but we don't tend to gothere as often as we should or
to seek his guidance.
Brian Stiller (10:13):
You help people bridge from today the resources
that I have into life afterdeath.
I I assume that in myexperience, people don't want to
talk about life after death.
So they have these resourcesnow, and you've mentioned those
(10:33):
five resources.
How do you get people to engagein the conversation where they
really understand that at somepoint that lid's gonna drop and
life is gonna be over, and whatthey have is no longer gonna be
theirs, it will be somebodyelse's, yeah.
How do you get to them intothat conversation?
Tim Jenkins (10:53):
Yeah, so so there's there's a obviously a varying
level of reluctance for thisconversation, but I don't think
anybody wants it.
Um it's part of our process, sothey got they they need to have
it anyway.
This is what we're talkingabout today.
Yeah, but but we talk about itbecause it is so critical.
And I think a number of things.
So um, one thing is we thinkthat uh if we don't talk about
(11:17):
it, people don't know what we'reworth.
And so we we want to keep ourcards to our chest.
Why is that?
I I think it's a power thingfor a lot of people, Brian.
Um, where it's we built it,it's ours, um, I'm not gonna
divulge that.
Um, so it could be a powerthing, but not always.
It could be a protection thingbecause I want to protect that
(11:38):
relationship with that child.
If they knew I was really worthwhat I am, maybe they'd be
saying, Mom, dad, they they, youknow, um, instead of us looking
at that child and saying, evenif they're an adult child, where
is there a challenge?
How are they not using wealthwisely?
And is there a way that we canstill interact with them to help
(12:02):
coach them in that area?
There may or may not be becauseof kind of family history, we
all have baggage, all that typeof thing.
But if if those children areyounger, certainly, you know,
before high school and teens,that's a great time to be really
showing them and helping themlearn the money management
skills.
So there is that reluctancethat if people knew I had this,
(12:23):
maybe they might be, you know,having different conversations
with us.
I like to frame it from anopportunity standpoint.
And I uh I like to have peoplelook at it from a legacy
standpoint.
What I mean by that is we Ireferenced that earlier in terms
of what does that nextgeneration need?
Here's an interesting rule wetalked about, Brian.
(12:43):
It's called the 9010 rule.
It applies to high net worthfamilies, but I would say it
actually applies to everyfamily.
It's just more obvious, maybe,in a high net worth family, or
maybe there's more assets thatget wasted as a result of this.
But here's here's the rule.
History has shown us 90% of ahigh net worth family's wealth
(13:08):
will never make it.
Now I talk about financialwealth, will never make it to
the fourth generation.
So if we've got a matriarch andpatriarch right now, then let's
just say they're worth a fewmillion dollars.
That's significant.
Um, their great-grandchildrenwill likely see none of that
money at most 10%.
(13:28):
And they're looking at itgoing, it's millions of dollars.
It's in real estate, it's in agood business, it's in
investments.
Where is it gonna go?
Where it's gonna go, it's gonnago shopping.
Here's how this works.
And as soon as I explain this,you'll go, makes total sense.
Um, first generation, they makethe money.
(13:48):
Um, now often what I see isthere's a special blessing on a
number of people that for somereason God has just allowed them
to prosper financially.
Um and and they have.
The second generation, well,they grew up in that home.
So even if there's not a lot ofuh teaching about money
management principles, over atthe dinner table, they hear
(14:12):
about what went on at work andwhat they're doing here.
And so by osmosis, they pick upsome of that.
They certainly see theirparents' lifestyle being less
than they they they live on lessthan they earn.
They they know there'sinvestments being made, they
know there's surplus.
So that's happening.
They pick that up, and thatgeneration typically will manage
the wealth, and they've gotenough skill set to do that.
(14:33):
The third generation, though,here's the problem they don't
have much interaction withgrandpa and grandma too often,
maybe geographically dispersed,uh, relationally dispersed, just
because they're a generationapart, didn't grow up in that
home and see what it took tocreate that wealth.
Um, so when the wealth movesdown the spectrum, they didn't
(14:56):
know the sacrifice that theirgrandparents made.
And there's a high probabilitythat the uh the principles that
were used, biblical or just goodcommon sense money management
principles, have never beenpassed.
The first generation is toobusy, focused on other things.
Um, so that third generationacquires a lot of inheritance
(15:19):
without any skill set.
They just think it's Christmasevery day, and we can do
whatever we want with this.
And as a result, it's gone.
The thing that really breaks myheart is it's not the money.
Money, money can be replaced.
It's a renewable resource.
It's it's all the life lessons,all the spiritual lessons, um,
(15:43):
that and and the moneymanagement lessons that can be
passed on.
Give them the ability.
Let's launch those nextgenerations uh at the next step.
We all want to do that.
We want our kids to belaunching at a better place than
we were, and yet we're notgiving them the fundamentals to
do that.
So that's really what uh whatwe're seeing happen with uh with
(16:06):
a family dynamic.
And so when I talk to them, Iwant to talk about here's the
potential you have.
If you do nothing, all this isgonna disappear.
You won't be remembered,probably, and neither will your
wealth, and neither will yourinfluence or your impact.
However, if you're proactive,if you understand the
(16:26):
opportunity that sits in frontof you, and I would even say the
obligation, we're a steward ofthose resources, but we're only
thinking about it on a financialstandpoint.
Let's think about itrelationally, emotionally,
intellectually, all thosethings.
We want to pass that on.
If we equip that, those nextstewards to do two things.
(16:47):
One, to understand thoseprinciples, two, to receive some
financial resources, but allthose other currencies as well.
What an impact.
What a life they're gonna have.
But I also want to pass on theresponsibility to say you're
blessed.
We've been blessed to live inthis part of the world.
We've been blessed in all theseways.
We've been blessed tounderstand these principles and
(17:09):
pass them on to you.
Now your responsibility is tomanage it well, um, interact
with the true owner of theresources so that you can manage
them through life, but thenyour responsibility is to pass
all that to the next generation.
Just do it to the nextgeneration.
Brian Stiller (17:25):
Let's go to the example of a person with a
considerable wealth.
They have generated that thatthose assets through their
through their business, throughtheir investments, however.
As they look into the future,uh, what are you finding they
think about, or are theythinking about how their money
(17:48):
will long term be used uh inways that they would uh find
congruent with their own valuesand vision?
Or do people just think aboutlet's make sure that during my
lifetime our investment ismaintained and it's it's
(18:10):
secured?
Tim Jenkins (18:10):
Yeah, good question.
So I again I find a mix.
Um there's some clients that umvery focused on um we are the
steward, we have way more thanwe need, we want to give that
away, and they come to us andthey go, we hear you can help us
be more generous.
And we love to hear that.
Uh, we want we we love to dothe work to give them permission
(18:34):
to be as generous as theirheart says they want to be.
And I believe that comes fromGod.
Brian Stiller (18:39):
But let me ask, yeah, to what degree is
generosity a factor in a highnet worth person?
Tim Jenkins (18:48):
Well, again, there's a very a variation
there, but I I find from a ifthere's not a faith component,
it will likely be very low inthat family.
Um, if there is a faithcomponent, um, it it could be
high, but not necessarily.
And for a couple of reasons.
One would be um usually wedon't think long term.
(19:11):
And when I say that, we don'tthink beyond um our uh the
generation that we can see.
So we can see our kids, we cansee our grandkids, if we see our
great grandkids this for ayear, maybe that's it.
So we never think beyond that.
We just we just and and so, butbut for significant wealth, if
it's managed well, it can lastfor decades.
(19:33):
Um, we we have clients thatwill give away tens of millions
of dollars.
That um when I look at that, Ilook at the the impact of that,
um, that will change a worldproblem.
For some reason, God's blessedthem with the resources in their
hands.
And I bet you the passion isthere that when they uncover it,
(19:54):
they'll go, that's one of thereasons God's blessed us with
these resources.
We want to do that.
Or it could be a regionalproblem where they go, in our
region, we want to change theface of this issue.
And they can do that.
That's powerful.
Um, and so as they catch thatvision or they get permission to
(20:15):
be able to give, then they'reable to do incredible things and
that and their generosity willchange.
Here's here's an interestingexperience that I find.
Um, we have the luxury ofworking with a lot of generous
people.
I have never seen anyonevoluntarily go backwards on the
(20:36):
generosity scale.
I've never seen anybody giveless this year than they gave
last year if they have thechoice.
And most of them have thechoice.
And why do you think that is?
Because of the joy ofgenerosity.
They get they get to see whatthey're doing, they get to see
the involvement of theirHeavenly Father, they get to see
the impact.
Um, and they just go, this isawesome.
(20:56):
And they're they're not doingit to get um necessarily, you
know, if I give, God will giveme more back.
But I also hear a comment, notinfrequently, okay, last year we
gave away more money than we'veever given away.
And this year we have moremoney than we've ever had
before.
Brian Stiller (21:16):
And and so I'm I don't want to link that, Brian,
right?
That they are they're that'snot the but but but it seems to
me there's a biblical principlethere that uh as you give more
to use the old King Jamesversion, more will be put back
from what you've given.
Tim Jenkins (21:34):
Yeah, and given and it shall be given.
Yeah, certainly there can be acorrelation, but I also look at
it and say the currencies couldbe different.
So I may give away financialresources, I may give back
emotional resources orrelational resources, right?
Um, God's uh an abundant Godand He promises to bless us.
(21:55):
He's all knowing and in allknowingness and in lovingness,
He does exactly the perfectthing for us.
He knows what we need.
We kind of think, oh, hey, if Ijust had a little bit more
money, or if if this challengein our life was was dissipated,
we would be better off.
He's got purposes for that.
Um, and and we we can trust himin it.
Brian Stiller (22:16):
How can a family make a difference for a ministry
or a cause that concerns them?
Tim Jenkins (22:24):
I say that people, there's four questions that
everyone needs to answer.
The first question is, how muchis enough?
What's our finish line?
Given that we feel this isappropriate lifestyle for the
rest of our life, um, and thisis where we're at in terms of
age and other obligations wehave.
What's our nest egg need to be?
(22:45):
What's that number?
Unfortunately, there's hardlyanybody walking around knowing
that number that hasn't had anadvisor do that for them.
And most advisors are moreconcerned about the investment
than that clarity.
But you have to answer thatquestion.
Once we answer, okay, this iswhat we need for our nest egg,
we know that either we'realready beyond it, or if we
(23:06):
aren't, then how do we getthere?
That looks after our needs.
The next question we want toanswer, and typically this is a
little harder, is how much isenough for our kids?
Because usually what we say is,oh, well, here's here's here's
another interesting thing.
Every will, I've seen a lot,our team, I've seen a lot of
wills.
It's unusual to see a will thatdoesn't say this.
(23:29):
Total net worth, divide by thenumber of kids, there's our
will.
So for an average Canadian,possibly, or North American, um,
possibly that works.
You know, you take a couple ofmillion dollars, divide by three
or four kids, nobody's probablygonna get hurt.
Take 30, 40, 50 million, divideby two or three kids.
And we can kind of say, wait aminute, that's a big number
(23:53):
that's going to somebody thatdoesn't need all that and
probably isn't going to use itwell.
And all of a sudden, what wethought was gonna be a blessing
becomes a curse.
Brian Stiller (24:02):
Um and so you're saying that for a person to give
too much to their kid, to theirchild could be a curse.
Tim Jenkins (24:12):
For sure.
And here's why.
What does it do?
Well, uh, it's it's not a it'sI'm not making a disparaging
comment on the child.
No, I'm simply saying they'reput in an environment where
there's danger put on themthat's excessive.
And what would it normally do?
We would rob them of a workethic.
Why do I need to work?
I just have all this money.
Well, we we know from God'sprinciples he's designed us to
(24:35):
work.
It's not healthy for us not towork.
What does that do to my um myself-esteem?
Um, all of a sudden, I didn'tcreate this wealth, I didn't
create this lifestyle.
What does that do to me?
Um, so there's a number ofthings that just inadvertently
happen in that situation.
And we don't think about itbecause nobody ever does the
math.
(24:55):
They sit down with a lawyer,they do their will, and that's
typically the kids geteverything.
We have to be really careful.
The question we want to ask iswhoever's receiving that
inheritance, what's what's it,what's the best for them?
At what level?
And it's easy to answer that.
We've got a process to do that.
But question one, how much isenough for us?
(25:15):
Question two, how much isenough for our kids?
Yeah, we want to bless them.
Enough to bless them, but notenough to become a Kirk.
Third question is what's ourtax liability?
Now you mentioned earlier howto get people involved in
giving.
This is a good one because whenthey look at their tax
liability, they have no idea.
We talked earlier about amulti-million dollar uh couple.
(25:38):
Um, there's millions going togo to uh to CRA or the IRS or
whatever the tax uh entity intheir country is.
This is gonna go there.
They don't know that number.
When they hit when they seethat number, it floors them.
And their next question is isthere anything we can do about
it?
Oh, yeah, especially in Canada.
We can be generous, and so wecan increase our generosity in a
(26:02):
massive way.
And a lot of that generosity iscoming from CRA going to our
favorite charities.
But we have to do that beforewe pass.
A will can't do that that afterthe fact, it can do it before,
and we need to do the planning.
So the third question is what'smy tax liability?
And typically, what we find,even with what we would say
(26:23):
would be an average Canadian,we've got enough to cover our
needs, we've got enough to coverour kids' needs appropriately,
uh, we've got a big taxliability, and now we've got the
choice to say there's stillsome capital left over.
What are we going to do withthat capital?
One way is to be generous withit that reduces our tax and it
also alleviates the challengesof us or our kids having too
(26:46):
much, like even for ourselves,right?
We can think that if we hadmore money, we may not use it as
well as if we had been a littlebit more modest with what we
have.
So those are the fourquestions, Brian, and people
need to answer those.
And when they do, generositytends to really buckle.
Brian Stiller (27:06):
Tell us the story of that one couple who found
that in giving, they broughttheir friends into it as well.
Tim Jenkins (27:15):
So there was a couple, and they uh they were
already a generous couple.
Um, I can't speak to this, butin terms of where they got the
idea.
But there was another familythat had made a significant um
multimillion dollar donation toum their favorite cause.
That ministry was changedfundamentally because of that
(27:37):
gift.
Now, what we're seeing is otherfamilies are going, oh, that
was really powerful.
That was a huge impact in thatministry.
We're now at a place where wecould do something similar.
And so, as current example,father passed away, um, wanted
to be generous in their estate,gave a million dollars to this
(27:59):
institution uh or this ministry.
And what they've also done,though, is they connected that
ministry to their network.
So, what they've done isthey've said, we um we are to
their network, we are beinggenerous.
Here's what we're doing, andhere's why we're making this
gift.
Um, we'd simply like you tolearn more about this ministry.
(28:21):
Um, and so we're just you knowconnecting you with the
ministry.
Um, that is going to be reallypowerful because there will be a
knock-on effect, whether it'sfor that ministry or another
one.
Um, people will look at thatand go, yeah, this is why, well,
not why there's a number ofbenefits from this.
And we're in a position wherewe could make that kind of
(28:44):
impact.
And we in this particularfamily's case, the children are
involved.
They're very aware of this.
They're they're very behindthis, they're part of that
connection group.
Um, and so the opportunity forus to um just set an example and
and and probably more givepeople the idea.
Well, you know, we're we'rewe're busy with life and we
(29:06):
don't even know about some ofthese things.
And and the fact that we've gotthis massive tax liability, all
of a sudden it's like we canreduce our tax, we can give to
our favorite charities, we canimpact our kids, we can involve
our grandkids, they canunderstand why we're doing why
we're what we're doing and whyit makes total sense.
Now we're passing currencies.
Now we're making a bigdifference, now we're changing
(29:27):
our legacy.
Brian Stiller (29:28):
So a person with uh their own capital resources
looks at an agency or a ministryor a cause that is dear to
them, and by them giving moneyto that and bringing their
friends uh into the picture mayuse called the the knock on
(29:52):
effect.
It it it triggers a next waveof activity.
So that That that cause or thatministry is affected by that
initial gift that triggers othergifts.
But it begins with somebodyunderstanding that their
resources are not just for themor their family, but can go
(30:17):
beyond to what has has matteredto them in life.
Tim Jenkins (30:21):
Yeah, totally.
Let me talk about why an estateplan is absolutely powerful for
a couple, but as well as theirwhole um thought process around
generosity.
Prior to looking at an estateplan, and an estate plan is
(30:41):
simply just saying someday I'mnot going to be here.
But I get the choice to choosewhere these resources go next.
And um, so we want to do that.
But here's when it becomesreally powerful.
Up to that point, our giving,if we have giving, is going to
be based typically on income.
I make so much income into thehome, therefore, we're choosing
(31:04):
to give a certain amount and wechoose where to give it.
That's all we think about.
We can have a massive networth, or certainly our net
worth is probably still rising,but all we look at is the cash
flow, the income that comes inand give from that.
As soon as we've asked thosefour questions that I mentioned
earlier, and we know that wehave more than we need, and we
(31:27):
know we've got a big taxliability, and then we look at
it and say, well, what would wedo with that?
The estate plan says, hey,we've already passed our other
objectives, our other goals, andwe have all this net worth
here.
Let's start giving some of thatnet worth now.
Why have a lawyer in 20 yearsgive away a lot of money?
(31:47):
Let's get involved today.
Let's make those stewardshipdecisions.
If we can, let's involve ourkids and our grandkids.
There's some great ideas abouthow to do that and help them
catch the joy of generosity.
Whether our kids or grandkidsgive their money away or our
money away, they still catch thejoy of generosity.
It's interesting.
(32:08):
But um, what we want to look atis now we can give from our net
worth, from our income.
It's we we're giving from ournet worth.
A lot of things are happening.
One, we can increase our givingsubstantially.
Two, it's probably going to begiven away anyway.
We just get, we just get to beinvolved in it.
We get to uh experience the joyfrom that.
(32:30):
We get to see what our dollarshave done.
We're reducing our taxliability in this current year.
That frees up more capital todo something with.
It's reducing our tax liabilityat the end of death.
There's so many good thingshappen.
So, you know, if if if I'mtalking to somebody that is in a
position that there is wealth,that I say, get an estate plan
(32:54):
done, and roll that through interms of what that looks like
for generosity, that will that'sthe potential to change your
family uh history forgenerations.
Brian Stiller (33:06):
Uh Tim, because of this large amount of transfer
of wealth, obviously you've gotuh businesses, family,
enterprises, uh ofteninterwebbed by family.
And that itself createscomplexity.
So uh in your financialplanning, are you finding this
to be true?
(33:26):
Oh, for sure.
Tim Jenkins (33:28):
It is so complex, uh Brian.
And um, and um it's not easy toto resolve these things.
We we actually um have aconnection to a family counselor
so that if as we're goingthrough these family dynamics
and looking at the math part, wehave to look at the relational
(33:48):
part too, I believe, because wewant to look at all those
currencies.
So it may not be easy, but ifthere's the opportunity for us
to then talk to the othercurrencies to say, you know
what, we're prepared to roll upour sleeves here.
This is so important to us.
And now that we're older, wehave a little time margin, a
little energy margin.
We're not pushing the businesslike we were.
(34:09):
We want to transition thebusiness really well so it'll be
successful for the nextgeneration.
But the family members that maynot be involved in the
business, or even if they are,we need to do this from a really
good place relationally.
So let's bring in the familycouncil.
Let's talk about that.
But what we do is we integrateit um with the financial as
(34:29):
well.
Here's some of the financialplans.
Um, what are the relationalimpacts of that?
How do we work that out?
So it's all integrated.
To me, one of the things thatthat uh earlier I talked about
um was you know, we we don't seeum the money as uh we see it as
ours, not as our HeavenlyFathers.
Uh, but there's also that umthat view that there's a sacred
(34:53):
and secular use of money.
And that's not the case.
God's blessed us with theseresources, financial or
otherwise.
Um, and it's not sacred orsecular.
It's just we just use it theway He wants us to.
And so when it comes to familybusiness succession or
transitioning wealth, we need tobe aware of those other things.
(35:13):
And we I just uh would reallyencourage people to get help in
that area.
When families don't get help,what happens?
You're you're putting you'reputting money, you're putting
people, you're putting a lot ofemotion, uh, and I'm saying a
lot of money, a lot of people, alot of emotional, a lot of
different perspectives together.
Uh yeah.
(35:33):
Uh we just say that's dynamite.
Like light the fuse.
We're getting out of here.
Um, because it's gonna blow andand it's gonna be it's it's
ends up in the courts.
We yeah, you see it all thetime, right?
We don't have to look far tofind those stories.
We don't want and huge amountof money lost.
Just it's just it's just gone.
Lawyers love it.
So, so the other way is what?
(35:56):
Oh, the other way would be tosay, to recognize, okay, you
know what?
We we are a steward.
The owner has blessed us, he'sblessed us with so many ways.
He wants to continue to blessus, he wants to bless us in
multiple currencies.
We may be only focusing on oneor two.
We want everything he has forus.
So let's get professionalcounsel.
(36:17):
Let's just say, Father, this wewe recognize these are your
resources.
We don't know how much time wehave left.
We may have decades, we mayhave uh a few months, but we
need to get our house in order.
And we need to get godlycounsel around this, mostly from
him, in terms of what do we dohere?
But answer those fourquestions, put an estate plan in
(36:39):
place, um, and then start toexecute.
And I would say focus as muchas possible on the relational
side, on your children, yourgrandchildren, transferring your
values.
That has way more potential andway more value.
If we pass that on to them andour success principles, uh,
they've got so much more.
(37:00):
Money is a renewable resource.
Whether they can do anythingwith that or not, that's that's
way less valuable in my mindthan those other principles.
That's where we should befocusing.
Brian Stiller (37:10):
Tim, 20 years ago, you sat down with Lily and
I, and you helped us think aboutthese matters.
Now, I've lived on ministrysalary all my life, so it's
modest, but we saved, we livedmodestly.
Uh, we had a little realestate, uh, so we had some
(37:31):
money, we had grandchildren thathave particular needs, uh, we
have our own future, and youhelped us map out what might
what the future might be.
Enormous value.
But one of the things that hashas has accompanied that and is
something that I've beeninterested in a long time, and
(37:52):
that's this issue of generosity.
And I I've come to this simpleunderstanding of creation that
at the heart of God isgenerosity in his actions.
And creation is a manifestationof that generosity because we
(38:14):
know that nothing happens inlife until something's given
away.
Generosity is at the very keyof reproduction family.
Uh a building that we're in.
You had to invest capital andresources to make it.
So I've I've come to understandin my own life and in our own
(38:39):
our own family, in our owngiving, the the absolute joy of
seeing another person or anothergroup uh benefit from the few
resources that we have.
And so your idea of generosity,I think, is is a is a critical
matter to a person's ownspiritual well-being, let alone
(39:03):
fulfilling the creation call.
Tim Jenkins (39:06):
Yeah, and this kind of wraps back around the unseen
benefits of generosity.
Uh, you know, we live in aculture that is all about more,
more, more.
It's all about a newer car, uh,you know, a new toy, uh,
something new in the house orwhatever it is.
Uh, and by following God'sprinciples and saying, you know
(39:28):
what, we're gonna trust him.
We're gonna we're gonna giveour first fruits to him.
Um, what it also does is ittempers some of those other
things.
And so we're actually crushingthe back of materialism by being
generous.
And so all these things areintertwined and they compound.
It's really interesting whenyou actually look at some of the
(39:50):
other benefits of generosity,but certainly it speaks to the
whole knit holistic nature ofwho our heavenly father is and
what he wants for us.
And it reflects his heart, asyou say, his generosity, his
gifts first.
He's done everything, includingthe grace for us to even begin
to understand who he is and knowhim.
(40:12):
One other thing with that,Brian, we've talked a little bit
about, you know, thatmultimillion dollar family.
Um, but um, but when I look atthe average person in uh kind of
a metropolitan North America,you know, they've they've got a
home probably worth over amillion, maybe quite a bit over
a million, not like they paid alot for it.
(40:34):
They've saved for retirement,so they've got some kind of nest
egg, hundreds of thousands ofdollars probably, um, may have
some pensions, may have acottage or something else, you
know, for the average person tohave an estate that now they
look at, they go, you know, it'sit's a few million dollars.
Who are we?
We're just average people.
(40:55):
So when we apply the thingsthat we've talked about today,
um, there's still excess money.
So it applies to them as well?
Everyone.
It will astound people howgenerous they can be with their
family and with their favoriteministries, cut the tax man out
of the issue, and still live ina really wonderful way.
(41:18):
We're not pinch and pennieshere.
This is the average Canadiancan make a substantial gift that
will make a substantialdifference in ministries.
It's massive.
Brian Stiller (41:29):
Tim, you've been advising people on finance,
personal finance, corporatefinance giving for some years.
What for you has been the uhthe motivation and the joy of
that?
Tim Jenkins (41:48):
So we're I'm called to do what I do, and God has
blessed us with a team to beable to work in complex
settings.
But I clearly remember um itwas in the mountains in Georgia.
I was at a retreat, and I'm I'mthere and I'm there to listen
to God.
And and it was quite a whileago, and I'm trying to figure
out is that God's voice or isthat mine or what?
(42:10):
But it was clear.
I've got this in my journal,and and it's never left me.
He says, I'm clearly callingyou to serve an unreached people
group.
Well, I've heard that termbefore.
Yeah, but what he meant wasaffluent families that have
money and all the danger ofmoney, and they've got these
resources.
(42:31):
I'm calling you to serve them,to uh to help them know who I
am.
Um, and so it's not about themoney.
We use that in our skill set toreduce the complexity and to
help bring clarity for thosefamilies.
But our hard is the lovingfather that we have, they will
(42:54):
meet him in a more intimate way,which is just being a privilege
to be a coach, a mentor, orwhatever it is to help them go,
hey, I see God a little bitdifferently.
Um, and so that's ourmotivation.
And and we, you know, uh thethe human side of us when we
look at the level of giving thatwe can encourage people with
(43:14):
and and just basically give thempermission, as I said, to give
the way their heart alreadytells them to.
They just don't know they can.
So we love to help give peoplepermission to give the way their
heart is already calling themto give.
But and as humans, we kind oftrack the numbers, yeah.
Uh especially as planners.
(43:35):
But I'm always reminding ourteam, Snyder, about the numbers.
Somebody gives $100 millionaway over the next 20 years.
We would love to help them dothat.
Does God need their $100million?
Thought at all.
Um, He wants their heart, Hewants our heart.
So as we go through thatprocess, it's about heart
change.
(43:55):
And really, as we look at thiswhole topic of money, um, it's
about our heart.
Money is probably the truestreflection of where our heart
is.
It's the easiest.
We deal with it every day.
It causes us stress probablyevery day for most of us, right?
Some level of stress.
And yet, when we look at God'sword, he says, I'm giving you
(44:17):
all the principles.
I'm giving you the my valuesaround this.
I'm showing you exactly how todo that.
And if you want specifics, justlisten to me.
Um, and I'll give you specificsfor today or or or or your
giving here.
So that's all available to us.
And I think we need to stepback and say, what's happening
(44:38):
here?
Like if I understand thebiblical principles of finance,
like I learned that there's alot of things online, a lot of
tools, and I still have anxietyaround my money.
I think that's an indicator forme personally, anyway, that I'm
I'm starting to be the ownerhere.
I need to let go and recognizeGod's my provider.
(44:59):
Um, and I can I can rest inHim.
That's not easy.
I live in this world fordecades, and I still struggle,
Brian, grabbing it back, right?
And trying to be the owner, butthat's not what he wants.
And so I think um we we need tosee money as a reflection of
our heart and be aware of whatit's teaching us, what it's
(45:21):
telling us.
Brian Stiller (45:22):
Tim Jenkins, thank you so much for joining us
in Evangelical 360.
Tim Jenkins (45:26):
You're welcome.
Great to be here, Brian.
Thank you.
Brian Stiller (45:29):
Thanks, Tim, for leading us to this critical
discussion where generositybecomes a byword rather than a
foreign word.
And thank you, my listeners,friends, for being a part of the
podcast.
Remember, you can share thisepisode and join the
conversation on YouTube.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guests, check the
(45:50):
show notes for links and info.
And thanks again for joiningme.
And if you haven't alreadysubscribed, please hit that
button.
So, until next time.
Thank you.
Don't miss the next interview.
Be sure to subscribe toEvangelical 360 on YouTube.
Hello and welcome to Evangelical 360.
I'm your host, Brian Stiller.
Nothing seems to catch voters'attention like the economy.
Governments rise and fall onhow their people view their
handling of money.
Countries batter each other intrying to extract as much as
they can from others, all in theunending search for a better
(00:33):
tax break for their owncitizens.
As an advisor to a former U.S.
president said, it's theeconomy stupid.
As much as we protest, therelationships matter most.
Sometimes the need to earnmoney takes over.
Our culture breeds the notionthat earning a lot of money or
(00:53):
getting the best deal I can findshows how smart I am.
Getting things in life becomesthe unspoken mantra of our
society.
If I were judged on a spectrumof getters and givers from one
to ten, with the best giversbeing numbered ten, I wonder
where I'd put myself and wheremight my friends place me.
(01:17):
Yet in life, nothing beginsunless something's given away.
Something doesn't come out ofnothing.
The giving of life begets life.
You and I began that way.
My mom and dad each gave uptheir life to create this one
many years ago.
That golden crop of grain yousee didn't grow up as market
(01:40):
ready without the farmer havingseed grain in store and then
planting it at the right time.
Had it stayed in storage with alet's keep this for ourselves
sign, it would have stayed asis.
But when given away or seeded,it multiplies.
Here's my point.
Giving is as close to theregeneration and remaking of a
(02:05):
people as I can imagine.
It's defining, it's renewing,it refills life.
Without it, we die.
Tim Jenkins helping peoplerediscover this essence of
giving.
As an investment advisor, hefinds that as he helps his
clients give money away, thatvery process brings life and
(02:26):
renewed vigor to those who, intheir generosity, discover this
essential component of living.
So thanks for joining me today.
Please consider sharing thisepisode with a friend.
And if you haven't done soalready, please hit the
subscribe button.
And you can also join theconversation on YouTube in the
comments below.
Now to my guest, Tim Jenkins.
Tim Jenkins (02:54):
You're welcome.
A regular listener.
It's a joy to be here.
Brian Stiller (02:57):
Oh, thanks, Tim.
Tim, we are living at a timewhen there is an enormous
transfer of funds from onegeneration to another.
As I understand, there's moremoney being transferred than
ever in the world's history.
So you've got this movement ofmoney.
There are some who have a lotof money to transfer, some that
(03:20):
have modest amounts, and somethat don't have a lot.
But money concerns us all.
As a as someone who consults ongiving and money management,
what are the mistakes that mostof us make when it comes to our
money management?
Tim Jenkins (03:35):
Great question, Brian.
I think the first thing is weget confused as to who the owner
is.
We think because we earned itor it grew or however we
received it, that it's ours.
It's not ours.
We're simply a steward.
We're going to be a manager.
And for us to think that I getto make all the decisions, and
that's where the decisions stop,is wrong.
(03:58):
And as a result, that reallycreates a challenge in our
thinking and allows us or keepsus from making good decisions.
So what are those baddecisions?
So one thing would be, as Isaid, we don't ask the owner
what their uh wishes are orintent is.
Another thing would be tosimply look at a lot of the lies
(04:21):
about money that our culturetells us.
Um, and and maybe even ourfaith background is uh
suggesting to us.
So some of those lies that weall live with are things like
just a little bit more is all Ineed, and life will be so much
better.
Uh, we work uh with clientsthat have been blessed with a
(04:42):
lot of finances.
And uh our business could notwould not exist if life got
easier the more money we had.
We see more complexity the morewe have.
We see more uh time that isrequired to manage that
resource, uh, more energy, morefocus, more um, it's easier
often to focus on our assets andour wealth, uh financial
(05:05):
wealth, than it would be to gohome now because we've got
family at home or uh those typesof things.
Money makes um having more addscomplexity to our life.
The other thing that mostpeople don't know is not only
does it add complexity, it addsa different level of, I'm gonna
(05:27):
call it stress.
Maybe stress is the wrong word,but it brings a level of danger
that families that don't havesignificant wealth don't have.
And um, we need to be aware ofthat and we need to work with
our children so that we canavoid that danger uh and some of
those things that happen.
(05:47):
So one of the lies is uh alittle bit more is all we need.
Another lie is it's it's mymoney, uh, and I can do whatever
I want with it.
Or we may paraphrase that alittle bit.
We may put the quote uh Sundayschool label on that and say,
well, 90% is or whatever percentyou want to say is our money.
(06:07):
Uh we just need to set thisaside and then we can do
whatever we want with the rest.
I don't think that's a biblicalprinciple either.
Another lie that would come toour mind is the fact that we
focus on one currency.
I believe there's multiplecurrencies.
So when we talk about wealthtoday, Brian, uh naturally
people will think money.
They will think finance.
(06:27):
I think our wealth is based onfinance for sure.
But is there such a thing asspiritual wealth?
I believe there is.
What about relational wealth,the the wealth within our
family, the wealth within ourfriend group, the wealth within
our peers at work or whereverour network is?
What about our intellectualwealth?
(06:48):
Understanding how things work,if you're in business or if
you're in a differentprofession, uh, or just
understanding how life works.
Um, those are all forms ofwealth.
What about emotional wealth?
Uh, that's really important.
And we've seen that in the lastdecade, even more important.
So as we look at wealth, weshouldn't be looking at it and
(07:08):
just thinking about money.
In fact, when we talk with uhour clients and with parents
especially, we talk about umwhat is the greatest asset that
you want to transfer?
Um, the question would be (07:20):
if you could only transfer one form
of wealth between financial,spiritual, relational,
emotional, and intellectual,you've got to bankrupt four of
those.
You can pass one, what wouldyou pass?
I find that question really apowerful question because it it
(07:45):
cuts out the noise.
And as a parent, you get to seewhat's the most important thing
to me.
Now, the second question wewill ask is we'll say the same
thing.
If you could pass four now ofthose, uh spiritual, financial,
relational, emotional, andintellectual, you can pass four
of them, but you got to bankruptone.
(08:06):
What's the one you willbankrupt?
That helps parents reallycrystallize what's so important.
But here's the problem, Brian.
As they talk to their financialadvisor or whoever else is in
their life that's helping themwith finance, how often do we
talk about the other currencies?
We don't.
That's those other thingstypically.
(08:28):
It would be rare.
I can't think of a situationwhere honestly someone has said
money's the most important.
There are people that would saythat, and that's their choice.
But for most parents that Italk to, it's something else.
Therefore, when we talk aboutwealth transfer, we want to deal
with money.
But there's other assets waymore valuable.
(08:50):
We got to think about that.
We got to think about who's thenext steward of those resources
and what do they need to know?
What don't they know already?
And how do we fill in the gaps?
We've been, we've been decadeslearning these skill sets, uh,
and we need to pass those on.
Um, successful families passthat on proactively, but most
(09:14):
people don't even think aboutit.
And so we've spent decadesbuilding financial wealth, but
building all these other formsof wealth, and likely we go to
our grave without having passedthat on to the next generation,
certainly not to the thirdgeneration, because we don't
have the interaction that theydidn't grow up in our home.
So um, those are some reallyimportant factors, Brian, that
(09:40):
um are skewed because ourculture is not talking about
this.
Um, and yet God's word is justfilled with wisdom and
direction, very plaininstructions, 2,350 verses in
God's word talk about money orpossessions.
God's not wanting us to beunaware of this, he's not
(10:02):
wanting us to not live life wellwhen it comes to our wealth.
Um, but we don't tend to gothere as often as we should or
to seek his guidance.
Brian Stiller (10:13):
You help people bridge from today the resources
that I have into life afterdeath.
I I assume that in myexperience, people don't want to
talk about life after death.
So they have these resourcesnow, and you've mentioned those
(10:33):
five resources.
How do you get people to engagein the conversation where they
really understand that at somepoint that lid's gonna drop and
life is gonna be over, and whatthey have is no longer gonna be
theirs, it will be somebodyelse's, yeah.
How do you get to them intothat conversation?
Tim Jenkins (10:53):
Yeah, so so there's there's a obviously a varying
level of reluctance for thisconversation, but I don't think
anybody wants it.
Um it's part of our process, sothey got they they need to have
it anyway.
This is what we're talkingabout today.
Yeah, but but we talk about itbecause it is so critical.
And I think a number of things.
So um, one thing is we thinkthat uh if we don't talk about
(11:17):
it, people don't know what we'reworth.
And so we we want to keep ourcards to our chest.
Why is that?
I I think it's a power thingfor a lot of people, Brian.
Um, where it's we built it,it's ours, um, I'm not gonna
divulge that.
Um, so it could be a powerthing, but not always.
It could be a protection thingbecause I want to protect that
(11:38):
relationship with that child.
If they knew I was really worthwhat I am, maybe they'd be
saying, Mom, dad, they they, youknow, um, instead of us looking
at that child and saying, evenif they're an adult child, where
is there a challenge?
How are they not using wealthwisely?
And is there a way that we canstill interact with them to help
(12:02):
coach them in that area?
There may or may not be becauseof kind of family history, we
all have baggage, all that typeof thing.
But if if those children areyounger, certainly, you know,
before high school and teens,that's a great time to be really
showing them and helping themlearn the money management
skills.
So there is that reluctancethat if people knew I had this,
(12:23):
maybe they might be, you know,having different conversations
with us.
I like to frame it from anopportunity standpoint.
And I uh I like to have peoplelook at it from a legacy
standpoint.
What I mean by that is we Ireferenced that earlier in terms
of what does that nextgeneration need?
Here's an interesting rule wetalked about, Brian.
(12:43):
It's called the 9010 rule.
It applies to high net worthfamilies, but I would say it
actually applies to everyfamily.
It's just more obvious, maybe,in a high net worth family, or
maybe there's more assets thatget wasted as a result of this.
But here's here's the rule.
History has shown us 90% of ahigh net worth family's wealth
(13:08):
will never make it.
Now I talk about financialwealth, will never make it to
the fourth generation.
So if we've got a matriarch andpatriarch right now, then let's
just say they're worth a fewmillion dollars.
That's significant.
Um, their great-grandchildrenwill likely see none of that
money at most 10%.
(13:28):
And they're looking at itgoing, it's millions of dollars.
It's in real estate, it's in agood business, it's in
investments.
Where is it gonna go?
Where it's gonna go, it's gonnago shopping.
Here's how this works.
And as soon as I explain this,you'll go, makes total sense.
Um, first generation, they makethe money.
(13:48):
Um, now often what I see isthere's a special blessing on a
number of people that for somereason God has just allowed them
to prosper financially.
Um and and they have.
The second generation, well,they grew up in that home.
So even if there's not a lot ofuh teaching about money
management principles, over atthe dinner table, they hear
(14:12):
about what went on at work andwhat they're doing here.
And so by osmosis, they pick upsome of that.
They certainly see theirparents' lifestyle being less
than they they they live on lessthan they earn.
They they know there'sinvestments being made, they
know there's surplus.
So that's happening.
They pick that up, and thatgeneration typically will manage
the wealth, and they've gotenough skill set to do that.
(14:33):
The third generation, though,here's the problem they don't
have much interaction withgrandpa and grandma too often,
maybe geographically dispersed,uh, relationally dispersed, just
because they're a generationapart, didn't grow up in that
home and see what it took tocreate that wealth.
Um, so when the wealth movesdown the spectrum, they didn't
(14:56):
know the sacrifice that theirgrandparents made.
And there's a high probabilitythat the uh the principles that
were used, biblical or just goodcommon sense money management
principles, have never beenpassed.
The first generation is toobusy, focused on other things.
Um, so that third generationacquires a lot of inheritance
(15:19):
without any skill set.
They just think it's Christmasevery day, and we can do
whatever we want with this.
And as a result, it's gone.
The thing that really breaks myheart is it's not the money.
Money, money can be replaced.
It's a renewable resource.
It's it's all the life lessons,all the spiritual lessons, um,
(15:43):
that and and the moneymanagement lessons that can be
passed on.
Give them the ability.
Let's launch those nextgenerations uh at the next step.
We all want to do that.
We want our kids to belaunching at a better place than
we were, and yet we're notgiving them the fundamentals to
do that.
So that's really what uh whatwe're seeing happen with uh with
(16:06):
a family dynamic.
And so when I talk to them, Iwant to talk about here's the
potential you have.
If you do nothing, all this isgonna disappear.
You won't be remembered,probably, and neither will your
wealth, and neither will yourinfluence or your impact.
However, if you're proactive,if you understand the
(16:26):
opportunity that sits in frontof you, and I would even say the
obligation, we're a steward ofthose resources, but we're only
thinking about it on a financialstandpoint.
Let's think about itrelationally, emotionally,
intellectually, all thosethings.
We want to pass that on.
If we equip that, those nextstewards to do two things.
(16:47):
One, to understand thoseprinciples, two, to receive some
financial resources, but allthose other currencies as well.
What an impact.
What a life they're gonna have.
But I also want to pass on theresponsibility to say you're
blessed.
We've been blessed to live inthis part of the world.
We've been blessed in all theseways.
We've been blessed tounderstand these principles and
(17:09):
pass them on to you.
Now your responsibility is tomanage it well, um, interact
with the true owner of theresources so that you can manage
them through life, but thenyour responsibility is to pass
all that to the next generation.
Just do it to the nextgeneration.
Brian Stiller (17:25):
Let's go to the example of a person with a
considerable wealth.
They have generated that thatthose assets through their
through their business, throughtheir investments, however.
As they look into the future,uh, what are you finding they
think about, or are theythinking about how their money
(17:48):
will long term be used uh inways that they would uh find
congruent with their own valuesand vision?
Or do people just think aboutlet's make sure that during my
lifetime our investment ismaintained and it's it's
(18:10):
secured?
Tim Jenkins (18:10):
Yeah, good question.
So I again I find a mix.
Um there's some clients that umvery focused on um we are the
steward, we have way more thanwe need, we want to give that
away, and they come to us andthey go, we hear you can help us
be more generous.
And we love to hear that.
Uh, we want we we love to dothe work to give them permission
(18:34):
to be as generous as theirheart says they want to be.
And I believe that comes fromGod.
Brian Stiller (18:39):
But let me ask, yeah, to what degree is
generosity a factor in a highnet worth person?
Tim Jenkins (18:48):
Well, again, there's a very a variation
there, but I I find from a ifthere's not a faith component,
it will likely be very low inthat family.
Um, if there is a faithcomponent, um, it it could be
high, but not necessarily.
And for a couple of reasons.
One would be um usually wedon't think long term.
(19:11):
And when I say that, we don'tthink beyond um our uh the
generation that we can see.
So we can see our kids, we cansee our grandkids, if we see our
great grandkids this for ayear, maybe that's it.
So we never think beyond that.
We just we just and and so, butbut for significant wealth, if
it's managed well, it can lastfor decades.
(19:33):
Um, we we have clients thatwill give away tens of millions
of dollars.
That um when I look at that, Ilook at the the impact of that,
um, that will change a worldproblem.
For some reason, God's blessedthem with the resources in their
hands.
And I bet you the passion isthere that when they uncover it,
(19:54):
they'll go, that's one of thereasons God's blessed us with
these resources.
We want to do that.
Or it could be a regionalproblem where they go, in our
region, we want to change theface of this issue.
And they can do that.
That's powerful.
Um, and so as they catch thatvision or they get permission to
(20:15):
be able to give, then they'reable to do incredible things and
that and their generosity willchange.
Here's here's an interestingexperience that I find.
Um, we have the luxury ofworking with a lot of generous
people.
I have never seen anyonevoluntarily go backwards on the
(20:36):
generosity scale.
I've never seen anybody giveless this year than they gave
last year if they have thechoice.
And most of them have thechoice.
And why do you think that is?
Because of the joy ofgenerosity.
They get they get to see whatthey're doing, they get to see
the involvement of theirHeavenly Father, they get to see
the impact.
Um, and they just go, this isawesome.
(20:56):
And they're they're not doingit to get um necessarily, you
know, if I give, God will giveme more back.
But I also hear a comment, notinfrequently, okay, last year we
gave away more money than we'veever given away.
And this year we have moremoney than we've ever had
before.
Brian Stiller (21:16):
And and so I'm I don't want to link that, Brian,
right?
That they are they're that'snot the but but but it seems to
me there's a biblical principlethere that uh as you give more
to use the old King Jamesversion, more will be put back
from what you've given.
Tim Jenkins (21:34):
Yeah, and given and it shall be given.
Yeah, certainly there can be acorrelation, but I also look at
it and say the currencies couldbe different.
So I may give away financialresources, I may give back
emotional resources orrelational resources, right?
Um, God's uh an abundant Godand He promises to bless us.
(21:55):
He's all knowing and in allknowingness and in lovingness,
He does exactly the perfectthing for us.
He knows what we need.
We kind of think, oh, hey, if Ijust had a little bit more
money, or if if this challengein our life was was dissipated,
we would be better off.
He's got purposes for that.
Um, and and we we can trust himin it.
Brian Stiller (22:16):
How can a family make a difference for a ministry
or a cause that concerns them?
Tim Jenkins (22:24):
I say that people, there's four questions that
everyone needs to answer.
The first question is, how muchis enough?
What's our finish line?
Given that we feel this isappropriate lifestyle for the
rest of our life, um, and thisis where we're at in terms of
age and other obligations wehave.
What's our nest egg need to be?
(22:45):
What's that number?
Unfortunately, there's hardlyanybody walking around knowing
that number that hasn't had anadvisor do that for them.
And most advisors are moreconcerned about the investment
than that clarity.
But you have to answer thatquestion.
Once we answer, okay, this iswhat we need for our nest egg,
we know that either we'realready beyond it, or if we
(23:06):
aren't, then how do we getthere?
That looks after our needs.
The next question we want toanswer, and typically this is a
little harder, is how much isenough for our kids?
Because usually what we say is,oh, well, here's here's here's
another interesting thing.
Every will, I've seen a lot,our team, I've seen a lot of
wills.
It's unusual to see a will thatdoesn't say this.
(23:29):
Total net worth, divide by thenumber of kids, there's our
will.
So for an average Canadian,possibly, or North American, um,
possibly that works.
You know, you take a couple ofmillion dollars, divide by three
or four kids, nobody's probablygonna get hurt.
Take 30, 40, 50 million, divideby two or three kids.
And we can kind of say, wait aminute, that's a big number
(23:53):
that's going to somebody thatdoesn't need all that and
probably isn't going to use itwell.
And all of a sudden, what wethought was gonna be a blessing
becomes a curse.
Brian Stiller (24:02):
Um and so you're saying that for a person to give
too much to their kid, to theirchild could be a curse.
Tim Jenkins (24:12):
For sure.
And here's why.
What does it do?
Well, uh, it's it's not a it'sI'm not making a disparaging
comment on the child.
No, I'm simply saying they'reput in an environment where
there's danger put on themthat's excessive.
And what would it normally do?
We would rob them of a workethic.
Why do I need to work?
I just have all this money.
Well, we we know from God'sprinciples he's designed us to
(24:35):
work.
It's not healthy for us not towork.
What does that do to my um myself-esteem?
Um, all of a sudden, I didn'tcreate this wealth, I didn't
create this lifestyle.
What does that do to me?
Um, so there's a number ofthings that just inadvertently
happen in that situation.
And we don't think about itbecause nobody ever does the
math.
(24:55):
They sit down with a lawyer,they do their will, and that's
typically the kids geteverything.
We have to be really careful.
The question we want to ask iswhoever's receiving that
inheritance, what's what's it,what's the best for them?
At what level?
And it's easy to answer that.
We've got a process to do that.
But question one, how much isenough for us?
(25:15):
Question two, how much isenough for our kids?
Yeah, we want to bless them.
Enough to bless them, but notenough to become a Kirk.
Third question is what's ourtax liability?
Now you mentioned earlier howto get people involved in
giving.
This is a good one because whenthey look at their tax
liability, they have no idea.
We talked earlier about amulti-million dollar uh couple.
(25:38):
Um, there's millions going togo to uh to CRA or the IRS or
whatever the tax uh entity intheir country is.
This is gonna go there.
They don't know that number.
When they hit when they seethat number, it floors them.
And their next question is isthere anything we can do about
it?
Oh, yeah, especially in Canada.
We can be generous, and so wecan increase our generosity in a
(26:02):
massive way.
And a lot of that generosity iscoming from CRA going to our
favorite charities.
But we have to do that beforewe pass.
A will can't do that that afterthe fact, it can do it before,
and we need to do the planning.
So the third question is what'smy tax liability?
And typically, what we find,even with what we would say
(26:23):
would be an average Canadian,we've got enough to cover our
needs, we've got enough to coverour kids' needs appropriately,
uh, we've got a big taxliability, and now we've got the
choice to say there's stillsome capital left over.
What are we going to do withthat capital?
One way is to be generous withit that reduces our tax and it
also alleviates the challengesof us or our kids having too
(26:46):
much, like even for ourselves,right?
We can think that if we hadmore money, we may not use it as
well as if we had been a littlebit more modest with what we
have.
So those are the fourquestions, Brian, and people
need to answer those.
And when they do, generositytends to really buckle.
Brian Stiller (27:06):
Tell us the story of that one couple who found
that in giving, they broughttheir friends into it as well.
Tim Jenkins (27:15):
So there was a couple, and they uh they were
already a generous couple.
Um, I can't speak to this, butin terms of where they got the
idea.
But there was another familythat had made a significant um
multimillion dollar donation toum their favorite cause.
That ministry was changedfundamentally because of that
(27:37):
gift.
Now, what we're seeing is otherfamilies are going, oh, that
was really powerful.
That was a huge impact in thatministry.
We're now at a place where wecould do something similar.
And so, as current example,father passed away, um, wanted
to be generous in their estate,gave a million dollars to this
(27:59):
institution uh or this ministry.
And what they've also done,though, is they connected that
ministry to their network.
So, what they've done isthey've said, we um we are to
their network, we are beinggenerous.
Here's what we're doing, andhere's why we're making this
gift.
Um, we'd simply like you tolearn more about this ministry.
(28:21):
Um, and so we're just you knowconnecting you with the
ministry.
Um, that is going to be reallypowerful because there will be a
knock-on effect, whether it'sfor that ministry or another
one.
Um, people will look at thatand go, yeah, this is why, well,
not why there's a number ofbenefits from this.
And we're in a position wherewe could make that kind of
(28:44):
impact.
And we in this particularfamily's case, the children are
involved.
They're very aware of this.
They're they're very behindthis, they're part of that
connection group.
Um, and so the opportunity forus to um just set an example and
and and probably more givepeople the idea.
Well, you know, we're we'rewe're busy with life and we
(29:06):
don't even know about some ofthese things.
And and the fact that we've gotthis massive tax liability, all
of a sudden it's like we canreduce our tax, we can give to
our favorite charities, we canimpact our kids, we can involve
our grandkids, they canunderstand why we're doing why
we're what we're doing and whyit makes total sense.
Now we're passing currencies.
Now we're making a bigdifference, now we're changing
(29:27):
our legacy.
Brian Stiller (29:28):
So a person with uh their own capital resources
looks at an agency or a ministryor a cause that is dear to
them, and by them giving moneyto that and bringing their
friends uh into the picture mayuse called the the knock on
(29:52):
effect.
It it it triggers a next waveof activity.
So that That that cause or thatministry is affected by that
initial gift that triggers othergifts.
But it begins with somebodyunderstanding that their
resources are not just for themor their family, but can go
(30:17):
beyond to what has has matteredto them in life.
Tim Jenkins (30:21):
Yeah, totally.
Let me talk about why an estateplan is absolutely powerful for
a couple, but as well as theirwhole um thought process around
generosity.
Prior to looking at an estateplan, and an estate plan is
(30:41):
simply just saying someday I'mnot going to be here.
But I get the choice to choosewhere these resources go next.
And um, so we want to do that.
But here's when it becomesreally powerful.
Up to that point, our giving,if we have giving, is going to
be based typically on income.
I make so much income into thehome, therefore, we're choosing
(31:04):
to give a certain amount and wechoose where to give it.
That's all we think about.
We can have a massive networth, or certainly our net
worth is probably still rising,but all we look at is the cash
flow, the income that comes inand give from that.
As soon as we've asked thosefour questions that I mentioned
earlier, and we know that wehave more than we need, and we
(31:27):
know we've got a big taxliability, and then we look at
it and say, well, what would wedo with that?
The estate plan says, hey,we've already passed our other
objectives, our other goals, andwe have all this net worth
here.
Let's start giving some of thatnet worth now.
Why have a lawyer in 20 yearsgive away a lot of money?
(31:47):
Let's get involved today.
Let's make those stewardshipdecisions.
If we can, let's involve ourkids and our grandkids.
There's some great ideas abouthow to do that and help them
catch the joy of generosity.
Whether our kids or grandkidsgive their money away or our
money away, they still catch thejoy of generosity.
It's interesting.
(32:08):
But um, what we want to look atis now we can give from our net
worth, from our income.
It's we we're giving from ournet worth.
A lot of things are happening.
One, we can increase our givingsubstantially.
Two, it's probably going to begiven away anyway.
We just get, we just get to beinvolved in it.
We get to uh experience the joyfrom that.
(32:30):
We get to see what our dollarshave done.
We're reducing our taxliability in this current year.
That frees up more capital todo something with.
It's reducing our tax liabilityat the end of death.
There's so many good thingshappen.
So, you know, if if if I'mtalking to somebody that is in a
position that there is wealth,that I say, get an estate plan
(32:54):
done, and roll that through interms of what that looks like
for generosity, that will that'sthe potential to change your
family uh history forgenerations.
Brian Stiller (33:06):
Uh Tim, because of this large amount of transfer
of wealth, obviously you've gotuh businesses, family,
enterprises, uh ofteninterwebbed by family.
And that itself createscomplexity.
So uh in your financialplanning, are you finding this
to be true?
(33:26):
Oh, for sure.
Tim Jenkins (33:28):
It is so complex, uh Brian.
And um, and um it's not easy toto resolve these things.
We we actually um have aconnection to a family counselor
so that if as we're goingthrough these family dynamics
and looking at the math part, wehave to look at the relational
(33:48):
part too, I believe, because wewant to look at all those
currencies.
So it may not be easy, but ifthere's the opportunity for us
to then talk to the othercurrencies to say, you know
what, we're prepared to roll upour sleeves here.
This is so important to us.
And now that we're older, wehave a little time margin, a
little energy margin.
We're not pushing the businesslike we were.
(34:09):
We want to transition thebusiness really well so it'll be
successful for the nextgeneration.
But the family members that maynot be involved in the
business, or even if they are,we need to do this from a really
good place relationally.
So let's bring in the familycouncil.
Let's talk about that.
But what we do is we integrateit um with the financial as
(34:29):
well.
Here's some of the financialplans.
Um, what are the relationalimpacts of that?
How do we work that out?
So it's all integrated.
To me, one of the things thatthat uh earlier I talked about
um was you know, we we don't seeum the money as uh we see it as
ours, not as our HeavenlyFathers.
Uh, but there's also that umthat view that there's a sacred
(34:53):
and secular use of money.
And that's not the case.
God's blessed us with theseresources, financial or
otherwise.
Um, and it's not sacred orsecular.
It's just we just use it theway He wants us to.
And so when it comes to familybusiness succession or
transitioning wealth, we need tobe aware of those other things.
(35:13):
And we I just uh would reallyencourage people to get help in
that area.
When families don't get help,what happens?
You're you're putting you'reputting money, you're putting
people, you're putting a lot ofemotion, uh, and I'm saying a
lot of money, a lot of people, alot of emotional, a lot of
different perspectives together.
Uh yeah.
(35:33):
Uh we just say that's dynamite.
Like light the fuse.
We're getting out of here.
Um, because it's gonna blow andand it's gonna be it's it's
ends up in the courts.
We yeah, you see it all thetime, right?
We don't have to look far tofind those stories.
We don't want and huge amountof money lost.
Just it's just it's just gone.
Lawyers love it.
So, so the other way is what?
(35:56):
Oh, the other way would be tosay, to recognize, okay, you
know what?
We we are a steward.
The owner has blessed us, he'sblessed us with so many ways.
He wants to continue to blessus, he wants to bless us in
multiple currencies.
We may be only focusing on oneor two.
We want everything he has forus.
So let's get professionalcounsel.
(36:17):
Let's just say, Father, this wewe recognize these are your
resources.
We don't know how much time wehave left.
We may have decades, we mayhave uh a few months, but we
need to get our house in order.
And we need to get godlycounsel around this, mostly from
him, in terms of what do we dohere?
But answer those fourquestions, put an estate plan in
(36:39):
place, um, and then start toexecute.
And I would say focus as muchas possible on the relational
side, on your children, yourgrandchildren, transferring your
values.
That has way more potential andway more value.
If we pass that on to them andour success principles, uh,
they've got so much more.
(37:00):
Money is a renewable resource.
Whether they can do anythingwith that or not, that's that's
way less valuable in my mindthan those other principles.
That's where we should befocusing.
Brian Stiller (37:10):
Tim, 20 years ago, you sat down with Lily and
I, and you helped us think aboutthese matters.
Now, I've lived on ministrysalary all my life, so it's
modest, but we saved, we livedmodestly.
Uh, we had a little realestate, uh, so we had some
(37:31):
money, we had grandchildren thathave particular needs, uh, we
have our own future, and youhelped us map out what might
what the future might be.
Enormous value.
But one of the things that hashas has accompanied that and is
something that I've beeninterested in a long time, and
(37:52):
that's this issue of generosity.
And I I've come to this simpleunderstanding of creation that
at the heart of God isgenerosity in his actions.
And creation is a manifestationof that generosity because we
(38:14):
know that nothing happens inlife until something's given
away.
Generosity is at the very keyof reproduction family.
Uh a building that we're in.
You had to invest capital andresources to make it.
So I've I've come to understandin my own life and in our own
(38:39):
our own family, in our owngiving, the the absolute joy of
seeing another person or anothergroup uh benefit from the few
resources that we have.
And so your idea of generosity,I think, is is a is a critical
matter to a person's ownspiritual well-being, let alone
(39:03):
fulfilling the creation call.
Tim Jenkins (39:06):
Yeah, and this kind of wraps back around the unseen
benefits of generosity.
Uh, you know, we live in aculture that is all about more,
more, more.
It's all about a newer car, uh,you know, a new toy, uh,
something new in the house orwhatever it is.
Uh, and by following God'sprinciples and saying, you know
(39:28):
what, we're gonna trust him.
We're gonna we're gonna giveour first fruits to him.
Um, what it also does is ittempers some of those other
things.
And so we're actually crushingthe back of materialism by being
generous.
And so all these things areintertwined and they compound.
It's really interesting whenyou actually look at some of the
(39:50):
other benefits of generosity,but certainly it speaks to the
whole knit holistic nature ofwho our heavenly father is and
what he wants for us.
And it reflects his heart, asyou say, his generosity, his
gifts first.
He's done everything, includingthe grace for us to even begin
to understand who he is and knowhim.
(40:12):
One other thing with that,Brian, we've talked a little bit
about, you know, thatmultimillion dollar family.
Um, but um, but when I look atthe average person in uh kind of
a metropolitan North America,you know, they've they've got a
home probably worth over amillion, maybe quite a bit over
a million, not like they paid alot for it.
(40:34):
They've saved for retirement,so they've got some kind of nest
egg, hundreds of thousands ofdollars probably, um, may have
some pensions, may have acottage or something else, you
know, for the average person tohave an estate that now they
look at, they go, you know, it'sit's a few million dollars.
Who are we?
We're just average people.
(40:55):
So when we apply the thingsthat we've talked about today,
um, there's still excess money.
So it applies to them as well?
Everyone.
It will astound people howgenerous they can be with their
family and with their favoriteministries, cut the tax man out
of the issue, and still live ina really wonderful way.
(41:18):
We're not pinch and pennieshere.
This is the average Canadiancan make a substantial gift that
will make a substantialdifference in ministries.
It's massive.
Brian Stiller (41:29):
Tim, you've been advising people on finance,
personal finance, corporatefinance giving for some years.
What for you has been the uhthe motivation and the joy of
that?
Tim Jenkins (41:48):
So we're I'm called to do what I do, and God has
blessed us with a team to beable to work in complex
settings.
But I clearly remember um itwas in the mountains in Georgia.
I was at a retreat, and I'm I'mthere and I'm there to listen
to God.
And and it was quite a whileago, and I'm trying to figure
out is that God's voice or isthat mine or what?
(42:10):
But it was clear.
I've got this in my journal,and and it's never left me.
He says, I'm clearly callingyou to serve an unreached people
group.
Well, I've heard that termbefore.
Yeah, but what he meant wasaffluent families that have
money and all the danger ofmoney, and they've got these
resources.
(42:31):
I'm calling you to serve them,to uh to help them know who I
am.
Um, and so it's not about themoney.
We use that in our skill set toreduce the complexity and to
help bring clarity for thosefamilies.
But our hard is the lovingfather that we have, they will
(42:54):
meet him in a more intimate way,which is just being a privilege
to be a coach, a mentor, orwhatever it is to help them go,
hey, I see God a little bitdifferently.
Um, and so that's ourmotivation.
And and we, you know, uh thethe human side of us when we
look at the level of giving thatwe can encourage people with
(43:14):
and and just basically give thempermission, as I said, to give
the way their heart alreadytells them to.
They just don't know they can.
So we love to help give peoplepermission to give the way their
heart is already calling themto give.
But and as humans, we kind oftrack the numbers, yeah.
Uh especially as planners.
(43:35):
But I'm always reminding ourteam, Snyder, about the numbers.
Somebody gives $100 millionaway over the next 20 years.
We would love to help them dothat.
Does God need their $100million?
Thought at all.
Um, He wants their heart, Hewants our heart.
So as we go through thatprocess, it's about heart
change.
(43:55):
And really, as we look at thiswhole topic of money, um, it's
about our heart.
Money is probably the truestreflection of where our heart
is.
It's the easiest.
We deal with it every day.
It causes us stress probablyevery day for most of us, right?
Some level of stress.
And yet, when we look at God'sword, he says, I'm giving you
(44:17):
all the principles.
I'm giving you the my valuesaround this.
I'm showing you exactly how todo that.
And if you want specifics, justlisten to me.
Um, and I'll give you specificsfor today or or or or your
giving here.
So that's all available to us.
And I think we need to stepback and say, what's happening
(44:38):
here?
Like if I understand thebiblical principles of finance,
like I learned that there's alot of things online, a lot of
tools, and I still have anxietyaround my money.
I think that's an indicator forme personally, anyway, that I'm
I'm starting to be the ownerhere.
I need to let go and recognizeGod's my provider.
(44:59):
Um, and I can I can rest inHim.
That's not easy.
I live in this world fordecades, and I still struggle,
Brian, grabbing it back, right?
And trying to be the owner, butthat's not what he wants.
And so I think um we we need tosee money as a reflection of
our heart and be aware of whatit's teaching us, what it's
(45:21):
telling us.
Brian Stiller (45:22):
Tim Jenkins, thank you so much for joining us
in Evangelical 360.
Tim Jenkins (45:26):
You're welcome.
Great to be here, Brian.
Thank you.
Brian Stiller (45:29):
Thanks, Tim, for leading us to this critical
discussion where generositybecomes a byword rather than a
foreign word.
And thank you, my listeners,friends, for being a part of the
podcast.
Remember, you can share thisepisode and join the
conversation on YouTube.
If you'd like to learn moreabout today's guests, check the
(45:50):
show notes for links and info.
And thanks again for joiningme.
And if you haven't alreadysubscribed, please hit that
button.
So, until next time.
Thank you.
Don't miss the next interview.
Be sure to subscribe toEvangelical 360 on YouTube.
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