June 5, 2025 • 26 mins
Five of Cups
Welcome to season 9 of this podcast, where I am talking all about the Suit of Cups. I’ll be going through each card in the suit, one per episode.
What we explore in this episode:
How the Five of Cups speaks to grief, disappointment, and the tension between regret and healing
Symbolism across decks: spilled cups, sorrowful figures, broken hearts, and overlooked blessings
Why this card asks us to feel our feelings fully before we can move on
The power of shifting perspective without bypassing what hurts
Pictures from the decks I talked about today referenced from left to right:
The Goddess of Love Tarot Deck: A Book and Deck for Embodying The Erotic Divine Feminine by Gabriela Herstik and illustrated by Julia Popescu
Therapists Who Tarot Deck, Prompts by Dreya Blume and Images by Rebecca Bloom
In this episode, we dive into the murky waters of the Five of Cups. This card often meets us in the aftermath or after something has gone wrong, fallen apart, or simply not worked out the way we hoped. Across decks, we often see a figure focused on spilled cups while two still stand behind them. This card sits at the heart of the suit, in the tension between heartbreak and healing.
It asks us to feel what we’re feeling fully before we move on. Not to wallow, not to bypass, but to acknowledge the pain with honesty and presence. What have we lost? What are we still holding onto? What is quietly waiting for us to notice it again?
This card doesn’t rush us into gratitude. It reminds us that transformation begins in truth. That looking at what hurts is the first step toward remembering what’s still possible.
Check out my other seasons!
Season 1 - Tarot basics
Seasons 2 & 3 - Major Arcana and 4 suits
Season 4 - Tarot in Pop Culture
Season 5 - Tarot Spreads
Season 6 - Suit of Wands
Season 7 - Suit of Pentacles
Season 8 - Suit of Swords
Today's Tarot Pull:
From The Citadel: A Fantasy Oracle by Fen Inkwright, I pulled The Brawler (reversed). In the upright position, The Brawler is about confrontation, strength, and direct action. But reversed, this card warns of unspoken tension and the emotional cost of avoiding conflict. Healing begins not with bypassing discomfort, but with facing it honestly. When we bottle things up instead of naming them, the rupture doesn’t disappear; it just waits for the next chance to spill over.
It asks: Where are you suppressing your truth in order to keep the peace? What happens when you bottle things up instead of speaking them aloud?
Reflective prompts on this card:
What story am I still telling myself about what I’ve lost?
What would it take for me to turn around and see what’s still standing?
Where am I avoiding conflict or emotional truth in th
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome. To everyday.
Tarot, your daily dive into the divine wisdom of the Tarot.
I'm your host. Hail a Saunders healer Tarot.
Enthusiast and your. Local witch next door.
And today I'm talking. About the five of.
Cups. But your seasoned tarot reader
are just starting to explore if this podcast offers daily
insights, intuitive messages, and practical advice drawn from
the cards. Each episode is designed to help
(00:22):
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(00:42):
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(01:25):
the most up to date information on upcoming events,
presentations, musings and more.And if you don't already know,
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Seeing clients. Virtually all over Washington.
State I love. Working with queer, Poly and
witchy. Clients if you'd like.
To work with a. Therapist that doesn't judge you
is a little bit witchy just likeyou.
It helps you learn how to deal with anxiety.
(01:46):
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Head to my website. And book a free consultation
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website camilleasaunders.com/everyday
Tarot. In addition to the images.
Of the cards I pull all right, so we are into season 9 now
where I'm talking all about the suit of.
(02:08):
Cups going through each card, one per episode if you haven't.
Listened to my other seasons yetyou.
Can check those out. A couple of the ones I've done
or season 1 was all about tarot basics.
Seasons 2. And three, I went through all
the Major Arcana cards and an. Overview of the four suits
season 4 was all about tarot andpop culture, season 5 was about
13 common tarot spreads and season 6-7 and eight were about
(02:31):
the suit of wands, pentacles andswords.
Right now we're into season 9 soI'm wrapping up my seasons where
I go through. Each of the suits.
And we're talking about the suitof cups.
If you want to hear an episode dedicated to the.
Overview of the suit. Of cups you can check out.
Episode 38. But today we're talking.
Just about the Five of Cups. So if you have a tarot deck
(02:51):
nearby or accessible, go ahead, take it out and flip through and
find your Five of Cups card. So common images.
Are symbols with the card or sort of grief, loss, regret,
heartbreak, misfortune? And mistakes.
We often see some of the cups are overturned or broken.
(03:11):
Sometimes things are spilling. Out of them, but often three are
sort of. Overturned.
And two are upright, Yeah. And that's.
Often how they're depicted. So I'm looking at three of my
decks. Right now and how?
They depict it. And the goddess of love.
Tarot deck by Gabriella Herstic and illustrated by Julie
Popescu. We.
See an anatomical heart. Depicted in the middle of the
(03:34):
card, we see a sword. Stabbed.
Through it, which is. Rare for the cups sign, right?
Because we don't generally. We have sort of some of the
other. Suits objects showing.
Up in the card, at least it's not super often.
So right this? Is sort of indicating.
Perhaps that heartbreak we. Have 4 cups.
They're all sort of. Upright, they look a little
(03:57):
unsteady, perhaps they're sort of floating around the heart in
the sort of spiral actually. So in the back of like the
furthest image back. This is a collage style card and
we see the like satellite image of like a.
Hurricane where you see the really big spiral of like clouds
and rain and everything. And water and it's almost like.
(04:20):
The cups are being. Like kind of sucked.
Into that like. They're in the sort of formation
as well. And then we also see pink roses
and pearls. So there's like a lots of like
Venusian energy. Like Venus energy of the roses
and pearls and right sort of the.
Opulence. And then we also have this like
heart break depicted here and five cards and all the suits are
(04:46):
sort of often this like challenging aspect or grief or.
Contemplation or sort of beating?
Yourself up or they're often in this like sort of like conflict.
Realm. They are sort of the halfway
point usually if we think of theace through 10.
As like a minor version or a microcosm of the heroes journey?
(05:10):
Like we see in the Major Arcana.Where you go from the fool to
the end of the world. In the different suits we see
that from ace to 10, so again ifwe think of that.
Fives are in the. Middle right if you.
Think of like when you're kind of in the middle of a book or
when you're getting towards likethe end, like we.
Start to get into this like, oh,what is the climax?
(05:32):
What is the conflict that's coming up right now?
In the. Book and that I feel like that's
sort of how these cards depict it.
I was going to see if there was any additional information in
the deck guide book for this one.
Yeah, it says one of the. Paradoxes of existence is.
That to feel the depths of love,you must be willing to face the
(05:54):
depths of heartache and pain. The Five of Cups.
The energy of loss. Hangs heavy and heartbreak seems
imminent. This is a time of nostalgia,
longing for what's been, thinking of the pain over and
over. Digging the knife into the.
Wood, right, we see that sword into.
The heart and the card says it'simperative to recognize the.
Pain you're leaving behind. But you shouldn't sink.
(06:16):
Into the emotional masochism or excuse distressing behaviors.
Instead, open your eyes. To the way you're.
Causing yourself to suffer. So there is this sort of like
tension and the card right of like, yes, things have been
challenging. Or have weighed heavy on you
and. Right.
(06:36):
Like what is actually coming next?
Like what are the? Ways you're contributing.
To your own suffering and the astrological correspondence.
Is Mars and Scorpio and we'll talk a little bit more about
that in the Terror Astrology book.
And the next card I'm looking atis the desert Illuminations
card. This has sort of.
I think a bit of the. Traditional depiction.
(06:56):
We see a person in the middle ofthe card.
We see these three. Or yeah, they're jugs and sort
of cups in this deck, but three of the jugs are overturned and
stuff spilling out and. Two of them are.
Upright and we. See sort of like a.
Bandit style person like their. Face is partially covered.
They have also like. A dagger or.
(07:18):
Sword at their side. Yeah, let's see.
And then we see them kind of in the desert with this like.
High moon or sun? Like depicted so the masked
bandit in a long black Cape stands under the night sky in
the middle. Of a painted.
Desert. They are surrounded by a bunch
of whiskey jugs tipped. Over and spilling their contents
(07:38):
onto the sand. This is an ominous.
Scene that is surreal and mysterious.
The spy of Jugs is. Symbolic of lost opportunities
and. Disappointments and life
sometimes plans. Fall through or situations don't
turn out exactly as you expect. Instead of.
Dwelling on the lost moments, consider how you can learn from
these experiences may run the risk of getting stuck.
(07:59):
In the past, remember to stay present and focus from.
Moment to moment, one day at a time.
Practice forgiveness. And patience with yourself.
It is the. Key to getting unstuck.
So again, that's sort of like, how are we?
Contributing to our own suffering, but also right like
recognizing where we've been. And that we're.
Moving into a different path in the future.
(08:19):
And lastly in the. Therapist who tarot duck.
Depiction of this. Card prompts by Drea Bloom and
images by Rebecca Bloom here. And I guess the other card in.
The middle I talked about was the Desert Illuminations Tarot
Duck by Lindsay D. Williams so in.
This therapist who tarot one we have.
Sort of an abstract depiction ofa person.
(08:41):
Which sort of see like their body and Ed, we see these five
cups around them, but again, some of them look spilled or
overturned. Or like they're overflowing and.
There's all these blue and yellow and then sort of a mix of
purple colors. Like it gives like.
Kind of like chaos. Or almost like if you were like,
if you have written you know in like.
(09:02):
A movie whenever they're. Like writing in their journal
and they're like. Crying in it and the.
Ink is like smearing. That's like.
Almost how this card looks. To me, like the it's like.
Being smeared. It is watercolor.
So it does sort of bleed like that.
But so anyway, on this deck there is no tarot deck guidebook
but there. Is a word associated with the
(09:22):
card that's printed on the frontof the card.
It says regrets. And then on the back of the card
we have these. Prompts.
It says what would you rather not know?
What are you? Pushing away and what?
Are you afraid of? So again, it really gives.
That like Scorpio vibes. Where we have again sort of
like. The wateriness.
Of the like. Emotion aspect of it.
(09:45):
Right. We're in a cup suit, so that's
also this like watery emotion this and then we.
Have sort of like the. Sting right if you think of like
a scorpion, you have like the sting that happens right the.
Heartbreak, the loss, the grief.And then we also have this like,
how do we transmute what we've learned?
(10:06):
How do we move on? How do we like think about it in
this way and kind of learn from our mistakes?
Make different choices in the. Future etcetera.
So in the library. Of Esoterica Tara book by
Tashan. They talk about that, the Five
of Cups. Is a point of no return,
separation and grief. The five of.
Cups symbolizes a change in needs.
(10:29):
And priorities. And suggests that we abandoned
regret and instead. See our losses as.
Gains. OK.
So yeah, instead of kind of right, looking backward and
thinking. Oh, I sure that things.
Differently or this or that. It's like, oh, OK, well, in
order for me to do things differently in the future,
right, I had to kind of learn that lesson like that.
(10:50):
So I feel like what we're being.Offered here in the Taron
Astrology book by Karine Kenner.They talk about again the five
of. Cups.
Associated with Mars and. Scorpio, it says.
It's no coincidence that Halloween.
Falls during the first. Deacon of Scorpio on Halloween
the veil between the. World's is said.
To be at its thinnest. The souls of the dead can slip
effortlessly back and forth fromthe other.
(11:13):
Side to Earth, Scorpio is well. Acquainted with the dark?
Mysteries of life. To most.
People, those mysteries seem melancholic.
The young woman in the card, however, seems.
To have come to terms with them,says the young woman in the card
is already familiar with Death the major.
Arcana card that corresponds. To Scorpio, because the woman in
the. Card is young.
(11:33):
Part of the minor arcana and positioned in the first Deacon
of the sign. She might not have.
First hand experience with. Death.
But Even so, there's this understanding.
Here that seems. Natural and innate.
Her familiarity is strengthened by the fact that the first
beacon of Scorpio is ruled by Mars, which is the warrior
planet, and by the fact that Mars is also the natural ruler
(11:54):
of the entire sign of Scorpio. So there is the sort of like
symbiosis going on here. Every warrior.
And every surgeon who fall underMars's towering shadow.
Knows that death is a natural consequence of life.
Sometimes it's even brought about by our insistence that the
life we want is worth preservingand fighting for.
(12:15):
Like the young. Woman's cloak.
Our bodies are easily. Shed, cast off and thrown aside.
Compare the Five of Cups to the death.
Card its counterpart. In the Major Arcana and you'll
notice. That both cards depict the
process of loss. Transformation and.
Change. So again, it is the sort of like
Turning Point card and the Fearless Terrible by Elliott
(12:38):
Adams. They talk about the five of.
Cups is this trance? Of negative thinking.
It says. The Five of Cups.
Symbolizes the trance. Like state of focusing only on
the negative even when all is not lost.
Again, often what's depicted is the figure on the card.
Gloomily stared that the three spilled or overturned cups.
(12:58):
Failing to notice the two perfectly upright cups on the
other right side of the card says between the two standing.
Cups is a bridge I'm looking at my other cards to see.
Here what I see. The bridge symbolizes that the
way over your obstacle will be made.
Clear when you focus on what is working and what is.
(13:20):
Positive in your life? So if you listen to last episode
and the four of cups, right, that was also a part of this of
like recognizing the good thingsyou have, right, having
gratitude for what you do have and not always just focusing on
the negative. This one saying, right, that
like working and focusing on what's positive, right?
The card also reveals that just because everything in your.
(13:42):
Life isn't perfect. That doesn't mean you need to
feel bad about it. It says all day, month, year or
decade. Does your mind ever feel?
Hypnotized with problems. Is it difficult to see?
All the blessings you currently have.
Because you can't stop focusing on your losses.
Does ruminating rob you of countless hours in the day?
If you've ever experienced this,you know it seems very difficult
(14:04):
to snap out of it often. Occurs when the mind.
Is idle says if you're traditionally a.
Problem solver it can. Be difficult to be at peace.
When there is no. Tasks to do The mind immediately
shuffles through its memory banks to dredge up something
that you. Should have anxiety about.
Then the mind says, here's a doozy.
Remember this horrible time? What if that?
Happens again. Then the trance begins and soon
(14:26):
20 minutes have gone by, leavingyou feeling.
Hopeless about yourself and your.
Prospects look at the image of the spilled cups.
It appears they contain. Wine.
However, there's another spill pictured in the foreground of
pure water I'm. Looking at my.
Cards again, let's see here. Let's see.
(14:48):
This is a symbol for the emotional disappointment that
may have occurred in the past, but is having real world
implications or setbacks in the present.
The expectation is that something will fail.
The likelihood of its. Failure exponentially becomes.
More likely. The Five of Cups encapsulates
the effect of our emotional state on our future
opportunities and prospects. When this card appears, it's
(15:10):
time to snap out of the negativeemotional rumination.
Yeah. So sort of this like aspect of,
right, It's not actually helpingus to dwell.
On things from the. Past, right?
We can recognize things that happen and again, learn from
them, but if we're just kind of sitting in that place, it's very
(15:34):
hard sometimes to write break from that in the tarot for.
Change Back by Jessica Door. They talk.
About the folk interpretations of this.
Card point out that. The person depicted in the card
so concerned right with. The three spilled cups.
They neglected the two still standing says It can be
certainly be read as a metaphor for the power perspective and
(15:54):
the difference of it can have onhow we experience and move.
Forward from a situation. The point is often made that if
they just turn around. The person in the.
Card would see opportunity. Rather than loss.
Says. But I think we miss out on
something crucial if you don't. First, learn to look.
Squarely at the cups that has spilled.
Sure, if we look too long, we might turn to.
Stone or get. Stuck in self pity.
(16:15):
Self criticism or despair? But maybe the trick is to
recognize that we actually. Have the capacity to both look.
At and learn from, we can feel the full impacts of a situation,
and then we can let the materialand emotional consequences teach
us right. Having felt the full weight of a
painful thing, we can turn on our heel and move.
(16:36):
Forward with an equal. Level of fullness, maybe even
toward a gift. Feeling the repercussions of our
behaviors initiates us into the space where we can learn to do
better. Shame can make it difficult to
do this people. Who struggle with compulsive
behavior. Often experience intense shame
after doing a habitual thing they swore that they would stop
(16:56):
doing. The intensity of the shame
around the forbidden behavior stimulates an avoidance response
that makes the person unable to look.
Directly at or feel. Into a misstep and its
aftermath. Shame is an experience of not
only having done something bad, but feeling like you actually
are bad. It's often.
Rooted in old early learning. But shame really restricts our
(17:20):
ability to turn around and look at what's happened.
From the perspective that. Every mistake.
Is an opportunity to learn. If we can't look straight down
the barrel of our mistakes at the feelings and bodily
sensations and thoughts that have come up in the week.
We rob ourselves of a precious opportunity.
To gain a depth of understandingaround why.
(17:41):
On a felt level. The behavior is no good for us.
Looking at a behavior that we feel ashamed about gives us A
room. To explore what led to the
behavior. What might have triggered it and
what was happening internally and externally at the time the
behavior was in response? To a difficult.
Emotion. This will also give us the
option to identify some. Other coping?
(18:03):
Skills to use next time instead,rather than continue to do the
same old thing we hate doing andstart to build new skills for
managing our emotions and tolerating distress.
If we can't look because we're caught in shame driven
avoidance, we can't learn. And I think this is a lot of
time what I spend doing with clients in therapy.
(18:26):
Which is that, right? It's a safe place where I can be
there, we can talk. About some of these hard things.
Choices people are made. Or right facing emotions,
talking about new coping skills.Right, instead of maybe the ones
you've used before. And just having someone there to
help guide you and hold you through the process of right
(18:49):
looking at some of. These parts of yourself that
maybe you don't like, or behaviors that you.
Do instead of just not thinking about them, not thinking about
them and then like feeling bad about them and never wanting to
do them again is right. What she's saying is that when
we're LED from this place of shame, like we just sort of
(19:12):
ignore and avoid the thing and we don't actually then get to
kind of learn from it. And so she's really talking
about, right, that like feeling ashamed is different because it
can be like, oh, I don't want todo that thing again, right?
It's not that I'm a bad person. I can understand.
Why I made the choices that I did or I did the behavior or?
(19:34):
I said the thing to. Someone I can?
See why I did that? I see it as sort of making
sense, and that doesn't mean I want to continue to do it in the
future. Again, a lot of us have right
trauma. Or like triggers from.
Things from our. Past, from childhood, from
different types of trauma. And it can be helpful to
(19:56):
understand why, again, we make the choices we make.
And then for the future, think about, OK, I can.
Recognize that that is. My common response or sort of
what I chose to? Do in the past or what protected
me? Right in the past and like I
don't I want to let that go or right.
I don't want to make. Those same choices in the future
(20:18):
and so learning. New coping skills, right?
And instead of continuing. To do the same thing that you
hate. Doing or feel.
Shameful about we start. Building new skills right
Identifying, naming our. Emotions, being able to feel
them, being able to tolerate seeing other people's.
Disappointment. Or distress or their emotions,
(20:40):
right? Other people feeling emotions.
And then if we can actually likelook at that right, then we can.
Learn from it. And she's sort of saying, right,
how do we? Right.
Change that shame driven avoidance into something that we
can actually learn from and thatthat's kind of what this.
Card is all about right, Maybe this tendency to look at only
(21:03):
the three cups that are falling over and not the upright ones.
What she's saying right there issomething perhaps beneficial,
but actually right looking at all the mistakes, all the
overturned. Cups.
Seen why it happened? Like, did you turn around really
quickly and they all fell? Over or you whipped them with
your Cape. Or whatever it was and kind of
(21:24):
why we made those decisions. And then, right, maybe it will
be more easy to, or you'll mightbe able to recognize like, oh,
actually I have these other things in my life, right?
These two other jugs or cuffs and right, those are really
fulfilling and I'm really happy about those.
So now I can turn a bit more towards those and choose those.
Coping skills. Fill those cups right instead of
(21:47):
just trying to ignore the three that have.
Overturned. All right.
So let's. Dive in and see what the cards
have to say. Today on this.
Topic right? How do we do that?
How do we? Right.
Other than, perhaps? In therapy, how do?
We think about these right challenging experiences we've
(22:09):
had in the. Past or choices.
That we've made and. Lovingly and gently like examine
what? What we did and right.
Maybe have some regret. About and like make different
choices in the future. Right, It's not usually helpful
to just. Berate ourselves or tell
ourselves that that was terrible.
(22:29):
Just don't do it again, right? I think we all kind of know, or
I guess maybe we've learned by this point that that doesn't
really work, right? This is sort of also the idea of
like, punitive measures for things, right?
If you just have punishment, yeah, you might learn that if
you do that thing, you get punished.
(22:51):
And sometimes that can be a reason enough not to do it.
But a lot of times people just get used to the punishment and
then maybe, Right, take that on.It's like, oh, this is just, I
deserve this. This is how I am because I'm so
bad, right? That's the idea of shame.
So how do we right view our pastmistakes or things we've done?
(23:13):
Choices we made with this sort of.
Critical lens but be able to take a a heart driven right or
loving. Sort of response to it or look
at it and see why we. Made those decisions.
And then right, hopefully again.Look at those two.
(23:36):
Cups that are still standing andright, work towards those, work
on filling those and kind of. Focusing on the things that we
do have or the things that are working really well that we are
good at and then that can make it easier to to, to to hold that
great criticism or feedback fromother people about what we might
(23:59):
not be doing the best at. OK, I.
Pulled the brawler in reverse. So the brawler is what it sounds
like. It has like 2 hands that are
like. Wrapped in, you know, gauze or
whatever, like as if you were boxing someone.
It says lack of empathy and confrontation, so I'm imagining
this is going to be about right not doing that.
(24:21):
Let's see, Brawler. In reverse a conflict.
Is causing tension in your life?But rather than letting it run,
(24:42):
its. Course you've been bottling it
up to try and avoid a confrontation.
This will. Only lead to a.
Breakdown in trust find the healthy balance between.
Expressing your needs clearly and keeping the peace What?
Seems like an incoming. Argument may turn out to be
nothing once you've cleared. The air.
So yeah, again, this is kind of the idea of like being able to
(25:05):
look at, right? And actually.
Like hold. That potential for
confrontation. Or write this thing that maybe
you did that you're not. Proud of and.
Being able to. Express your needs right.
Keeping the peace and not turning this into like an
argument or a thing that becauseyou feel bad about it, you maybe
(25:27):
want other. People to.
Feel bad too, or point out theirmistakes so that they're on a
level playing field, right? It's kind of saying that don't
let that potential, like ruin what's going on in your life
right now. Let it run its course, right?
Allow yourself to. Feel the emotions process and
(25:48):
move through them. And don't just follow them up,
because usually that just means that eventually.
They will explode. All right.
So links for the tarot decks I talk about.
Always in the show notes, so on my.
Website if you'd like to look atthem or purchase.
Them and thanks for joining me. Today on Everyday Tarot.
Just as a reminder, the podcast comes out daily Monday to Friday
(26:08):
for all of 2025. You can e-mail me me at Camille
a Saunders dot. Com with your thoughts,
questions and more. I would love to hear from you if
you have any. Ideas for future seasons or any
questions about? Certain cards or processes.
Cards you find, really. Challenging or.
(26:30):
Words you don't understand. Or anything else.
So yeah, I hope to hear from youand see you soon.
Bye bye.
Hello and welcome. To everyday.
Tarot, your daily dive into the divine wisdom of the Tarot.
I'm your host. Hail a Saunders healer Tarot.
Enthusiast and your. Local witch next door.
And today I'm talking. About the five of.
Cups. But your seasoned tarot reader
are just starting to explore if this podcast offers daily
insights, intuitive messages, and practical advice drawn from
the cards. Each episode is designed to help
(00:22):
you connect. With your inner wisdom, find
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As interpreted by me. If you love the show.
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(00:42):
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(01:03):
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Joining my newsletter list Biweekly newsletter always has
(01:25):
the most up to date information on upcoming events,
presentations, musings and more.And if you don't already know,
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Seeing clients. Virtually all over Washington.
State I love. Working with queer, Poly and
witchy. Clients if you'd like.
To work with a. Therapist that doesn't judge you
is a little bit witchy just likeyou.
It helps you learn how to deal with anxiety.
(01:46):
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Head to my website. And book a free consultation
now. You can find the links for any
of these offers. In the show notes or on my
website camilleasaunders.com/everyday
Tarot. In addition to the images.
Of the cards I pull all right, so we are into season 9 now
where I'm talking all about the suit of.
(02:08):
Cups going through each card, one per episode if you haven't.
Listened to my other seasons yetyou.
Can check those out. A couple of the ones I've done
or season 1 was all about tarot basics.
Seasons 2. And three, I went through all
the Major Arcana cards and an. Overview of the four suits
season 4 was all about tarot andpop culture, season 5 was about
13 common tarot spreads and season 6-7 and eight were about
(02:31):
the suit of wands, pentacles andswords.
Right now we're into season 9 soI'm wrapping up my seasons where
I go through. Each of the suits.
And we're talking about the suitof cups.
If you want to hear an episode dedicated to the.
Overview of the suit. Of cups you can check out.
Episode 38. But today we're talking.
Just about the Five of Cups. So if you have a tarot deck
(02:51):
nearby or accessible, go ahead, take it out and flip through and
find your Five of Cups card. So common images.
Are symbols with the card or sort of grief, loss, regret,
heartbreak, misfortune? And mistakes.
We often see some of the cups are overturned or broken.
(03:11):
Sometimes things are spilling. Out of them, but often three are
sort of. Overturned.
And two are upright, Yeah. And that's.
Often how they're depicted. So I'm looking at three of my
decks. Right now and how?
They depict it. And the goddess of love.
Tarot deck by Gabriella Herstic and illustrated by Julie
Popescu. We.
See an anatomical heart. Depicted in the middle of the
(03:34):
card, we see a sword. Stabbed.
Through it, which is. Rare for the cups sign, right?
Because we don't generally. We have sort of some of the
other. Suits objects showing.
Up in the card, at least it's not super often.
So right this? Is sort of indicating.
Perhaps that heartbreak we. Have 4 cups.
They're all sort of. Upright, they look a little
(03:57):
unsteady, perhaps they're sort of floating around the heart in
the sort of spiral actually. So in the back of like the
furthest image back. This is a collage style card and
we see the like satellite image of like a.
Hurricane where you see the really big spiral of like clouds
and rain and everything. And water and it's almost like.
(04:20):
The cups are being. Like kind of sucked.
Into that like. They're in the sort of formation
as well. And then we also see pink roses
and pearls. So there's like a lots of like
Venusian energy. Like Venus energy of the roses
and pearls and right sort of the.
Opulence. And then we also have this like
heart break depicted here and five cards and all the suits are
(04:46):
sort of often this like challenging aspect or grief or.
Contemplation or sort of beating?
Yourself up or they're often in this like sort of like conflict.
Realm. They are sort of the halfway
point usually if we think of theace through 10.
As like a minor version or a microcosm of the heroes journey?
(05:10):
Like we see in the Major Arcana.Where you go from the fool to
the end of the world. In the different suits we see
that from ace to 10, so again ifwe think of that.
Fives are in the. Middle right if you.
Think of like when you're kind of in the middle of a book or
when you're getting towards likethe end, like we.
Start to get into this like, oh,what is the climax?
(05:32):
What is the conflict that's coming up right now?
In the. Book and that I feel like that's
sort of how these cards depict it.
I was going to see if there was any additional information in
the deck guide book for this one.
Yeah, it says one of the. Paradoxes of existence is.
That to feel the depths of love,you must be willing to face the
(05:54):
depths of heartache and pain. The Five of Cups.
The energy of loss. Hangs heavy and heartbreak seems
imminent. This is a time of nostalgia,
longing for what's been, thinking of the pain over and
over. Digging the knife into the.
Wood, right, we see that sword into.
The heart and the card says it'simperative to recognize the.
Pain you're leaving behind. But you shouldn't sink.
(06:16):
Into the emotional masochism or excuse distressing behaviors.
Instead, open your eyes. To the way you're.
Causing yourself to suffer. So there is this sort of like
tension and the card right of like, yes, things have been
challenging. Or have weighed heavy on you
and. Right.
(06:36):
Like what is actually coming next?
Like what are the? Ways you're contributing.
To your own suffering and the astrological correspondence.
Is Mars and Scorpio and we'll talk a little bit more about
that in the Terror Astrology book.
And the next card I'm looking atis the desert Illuminations
card. This has sort of.
I think a bit of the. Traditional depiction.
(06:56):
We see a person in the middle ofthe card.
We see these three. Or yeah, they're jugs and sort
of cups in this deck, but three of the jugs are overturned and
stuff spilling out and. Two of them are.
Upright and we. See sort of like a.
Bandit style person like their. Face is partially covered.
They have also like. A dagger or.
(07:18):
Sword at their side. Yeah, let's see.
And then we see them kind of in the desert with this like.
High moon or sun? Like depicted so the masked
bandit in a long black Cape stands under the night sky in
the middle. Of a painted.
Desert. They are surrounded by a bunch
of whiskey jugs tipped. Over and spilling their contents
(07:38):
onto the sand. This is an ominous.
Scene that is surreal and mysterious.
The spy of Jugs is. Symbolic of lost opportunities
and. Disappointments and life
sometimes plans. Fall through or situations don't
turn out exactly as you expect. Instead of.
Dwelling on the lost moments, consider how you can learn from
these experiences may run the risk of getting stuck.
(07:59):
In the past, remember to stay present and focus from.
Moment to moment, one day at a time.
Practice forgiveness. And patience with yourself.
It is the. Key to getting unstuck.
So again, that's sort of like, how are we?
Contributing to our own suffering, but also right like
recognizing where we've been. And that we're.
Moving into a different path in the future.
(08:19):
And lastly in the. Therapist who tarot duck.
Depiction of this. Card prompts by Drea Bloom and
images by Rebecca Bloom here. And I guess the other card in.
The middle I talked about was the Desert Illuminations Tarot
Duck by Lindsay D. Williams so in.
This therapist who tarot one we have.
Sort of an abstract depiction ofa person.
(08:41):
Which sort of see like their body and Ed, we see these five
cups around them, but again, some of them look spilled or
overturned. Or like they're overflowing and.
There's all these blue and yellow and then sort of a mix of
purple colors. Like it gives like.
Kind of like chaos. Or almost like if you were like,
if you have written you know in like.
(09:02):
A movie whenever they're. Like writing in their journal
and they're like. Crying in it and the.
Ink is like smearing. That's like.
Almost how this card looks. To me, like the it's like.
Being smeared. It is watercolor.
So it does sort of bleed like that.
But so anyway, on this deck there is no tarot deck guidebook
but there. Is a word associated with the
(09:22):
card that's printed on the frontof the card.
It says regrets. And then on the back of the card
we have these. Prompts.
It says what would you rather not know?
What are you? Pushing away and what?
Are you afraid of? So again, it really gives.
That like Scorpio vibes. Where we have again sort of
like. The wateriness.
Of the like. Emotion aspect of it.
(09:45):
Right. We're in a cup suit, so that's
also this like watery emotion this and then we.
Have sort of like the. Sting right if you think of like
a scorpion, you have like the sting that happens right the.
Heartbreak, the loss, the grief.And then we also have this like,
how do we transmute what we've learned?
(10:06):
How do we move on? How do we like think about it in
this way and kind of learn from our mistakes?
Make different choices in the. Future etcetera.
So in the library. Of Esoterica Tara book by
Tashan. They talk about that, the Five
of Cups. Is a point of no return,
separation and grief. The five of.
Cups symbolizes a change in needs.
(10:29):
And priorities. And suggests that we abandoned
regret and instead. See our losses as.
Gains. OK.
So yeah, instead of kind of right, looking backward and
thinking. Oh, I sure that things.
Differently or this or that. It's like, oh, OK, well, in
order for me to do things differently in the future,
right, I had to kind of learn that lesson like that.
(10:50):
So I feel like what we're being.Offered here in the Taron
Astrology book by Karine Kenner.They talk about again the five
of. Cups.
Associated with Mars and. Scorpio, it says.
It's no coincidence that Halloween.
Falls during the first. Deacon of Scorpio on Halloween
the veil between the. World's is said.
To be at its thinnest. The souls of the dead can slip
effortlessly back and forth fromthe other.
(11:13):
Side to Earth, Scorpio is well. Acquainted with the dark?
Mysteries of life. To most.
People, those mysteries seem melancholic.
The young woman in the card, however, seems.
To have come to terms with them,says the young woman in the card
is already familiar with Death the major.
Arcana card that corresponds. To Scorpio, because the woman in
the. Card is young.
(11:33):
Part of the minor arcana and positioned in the first Deacon
of the sign. She might not have.
First hand experience with. Death.
But Even so, there's this understanding.
Here that seems. Natural and innate.
Her familiarity is strengthened by the fact that the first
beacon of Scorpio is ruled by Mars, which is the warrior
planet, and by the fact that Mars is also the natural ruler
(11:54):
of the entire sign of Scorpio. So there is the sort of like
symbiosis going on here. Every warrior.
And every surgeon who fall underMars's towering shadow.
Knows that death is a natural consequence of life.
Sometimes it's even brought about by our insistence that the
life we want is worth preservingand fighting for.
(12:15):
Like the young. Woman's cloak.
Our bodies are easily. Shed, cast off and thrown aside.
Compare the Five of Cups to the death.
Card its counterpart. In the Major Arcana and you'll
notice. That both cards depict the
process of loss. Transformation and.
Change. So again, it is the sort of like
Turning Point card and the Fearless Terrible by Elliott
(12:38):
Adams. They talk about the five of.
Cups is this trance? Of negative thinking.
It says. The Five of Cups.
Symbolizes the trance. Like state of focusing only on
the negative even when all is not lost.
Again, often what's depicted is the figure on the card.
Gloomily stared that the three spilled or overturned cups.
(12:58):
Failing to notice the two perfectly upright cups on the
other right side of the card says between the two standing.
Cups is a bridge I'm looking at my other cards to see.
Here what I see. The bridge symbolizes that the
way over your obstacle will be made.
Clear when you focus on what is working and what is.
(13:20):
Positive in your life? So if you listen to last episode
and the four of cups, right, that was also a part of this of
like recognizing the good thingsyou have, right, having
gratitude for what you do have and not always just focusing on
the negative. This one saying, right, that
like working and focusing on what's positive, right?
The card also reveals that just because everything in your.
(13:42):
Life isn't perfect. That doesn't mean you need to
feel bad about it. It says all day, month, year or
decade. Does your mind ever feel?
Hypnotized with problems. Is it difficult to see?
All the blessings you currently have.
Because you can't stop focusing on your losses.
Does ruminating rob you of countless hours in the day?
If you've ever experienced this,you know it seems very difficult
(14:04):
to snap out of it often. Occurs when the mind.
Is idle says if you're traditionally a.
Problem solver it can. Be difficult to be at peace.
When there is no. Tasks to do The mind immediately
shuffles through its memory banks to dredge up something
that you. Should have anxiety about.
Then the mind says, here's a doozy.
Remember this horrible time? What if that?
Happens again. Then the trance begins and soon
(14:26):
20 minutes have gone by, leavingyou feeling.
Hopeless about yourself and your.
Prospects look at the image of the spilled cups.
It appears they contain. Wine.
However, there's another spill pictured in the foreground of
pure water I'm. Looking at my.
Cards again, let's see here. Let's see.
(14:48):
This is a symbol for the emotional disappointment that
may have occurred in the past, but is having real world
implications or setbacks in the present.
The expectation is that something will fail.
The likelihood of its. Failure exponentially becomes.
More likely. The Five of Cups encapsulates
the effect of our emotional state on our future
opportunities and prospects. When this card appears, it's
(15:10):
time to snap out of the negativeemotional rumination.
Yeah. So sort of this like aspect of,
right, It's not actually helpingus to dwell.
On things from the. Past, right?
We can recognize things that happen and again, learn from
them, but if we're just kind of sitting in that place, it's very
(15:34):
hard sometimes to write break from that in the tarot for.
Change Back by Jessica Door. They talk.
About the folk interpretations of this.
Card point out that. The person depicted in the card
so concerned right with. The three spilled cups.
They neglected the two still standing says It can be
certainly be read as a metaphor for the power perspective and
(15:54):
the difference of it can have onhow we experience and move.
Forward from a situation. The point is often made that if
they just turn around. The person in the.
Card would see opportunity. Rather than loss.
Says. But I think we miss out on
something crucial if you don't. First, learn to look.
Squarely at the cups that has spilled.
Sure, if we look too long, we might turn to.
Stone or get. Stuck in self pity.
(16:15):
Self criticism or despair? But maybe the trick is to
recognize that we actually. Have the capacity to both look.
At and learn from, we can feel the full impacts of a situation,
and then we can let the materialand emotional consequences teach
us right. Having felt the full weight of a
painful thing, we can turn on our heel and move.
(16:36):
Forward with an equal. Level of fullness, maybe even
toward a gift. Feeling the repercussions of our
behaviors initiates us into the space where we can learn to do
better. Shame can make it difficult to
do this people. Who struggle with compulsive
behavior. Often experience intense shame
after doing a habitual thing they swore that they would stop
(16:56):
doing. The intensity of the shame
around the forbidden behavior stimulates an avoidance response
that makes the person unable to look.
Directly at or feel. Into a misstep and its
aftermath. Shame is an experience of not
only having done something bad, but feeling like you actually
are bad. It's often.
Rooted in old early learning. But shame really restricts our
(17:20):
ability to turn around and look at what's happened.
From the perspective that. Every mistake.
Is an opportunity to learn. If we can't look straight down
the barrel of our mistakes at the feelings and bodily
sensations and thoughts that have come up in the week.
We rob ourselves of a precious opportunity.
To gain a depth of understandingaround why.
(17:41):
On a felt level. The behavior is no good for us.
Looking at a behavior that we feel ashamed about gives us A
room. To explore what led to the
behavior. What might have triggered it and
what was happening internally and externally at the time the
behavior was in response? To a difficult.
Emotion. This will also give us the
option to identify some. Other coping?
(18:03):
Skills to use next time instead,rather than continue to do the
same old thing we hate doing andstart to build new skills for
managing our emotions and tolerating distress.
If we can't look because we're caught in shame driven
avoidance, we can't learn. And I think this is a lot of
time what I spend doing with clients in therapy.
(18:26):
Which is that, right? It's a safe place where I can be
there, we can talk. About some of these hard things.
Choices people are made. Or right facing emotions,
talking about new coping skills.Right, instead of maybe the ones
you've used before. And just having someone there to
help guide you and hold you through the process of right
(18:49):
looking at some of. These parts of yourself that
maybe you don't like, or behaviors that you.
Do instead of just not thinking about them, not thinking about
them and then like feeling bad about them and never wanting to
do them again is right. What she's saying is that when
we're LED from this place of shame, like we just sort of
(19:12):
ignore and avoid the thing and we don't actually then get to
kind of learn from it. And so she's really talking
about, right, that like feeling ashamed is different because it
can be like, oh, I don't want todo that thing again, right?
It's not that I'm a bad person. I can understand.
Why I made the choices that I did or I did the behavior or?
(19:34):
I said the thing to. Someone I can?
See why I did that? I see it as sort of making
sense, and that doesn't mean I want to continue to do it in the
future. Again, a lot of us have right
trauma. Or like triggers from.
Things from our. Past, from childhood, from
different types of trauma. And it can be helpful to
(19:56):
understand why, again, we make the choices we make.
And then for the future, think about, OK, I can.
Recognize that that is. My common response or sort of
what I chose to? Do in the past or what protected
me? Right in the past and like I
don't I want to let that go or right.
I don't want to make. Those same choices in the future
(20:18):
and so learning. New coping skills, right?
And instead of continuing. To do the same thing that you
hate. Doing or feel.
Shameful about we start. Building new skills right
Identifying, naming our. Emotions, being able to feel
them, being able to tolerate seeing other people's.
Disappointment. Or distress or their emotions,
(20:40):
right? Other people feeling emotions.
And then if we can actually likelook at that right, then we can.
Learn from it. And she's sort of saying, right,
how do we? Right.
Change that shame driven avoidance into something that we
can actually learn from and thatthat's kind of what this.
Card is all about right, Maybe this tendency to look at only
(21:03):
the three cups that are falling over and not the upright ones.
What she's saying right there issomething perhaps beneficial,
but actually right looking at all the mistakes, all the
overturned. Cups.
Seen why it happened? Like, did you turn around really
quickly and they all fell? Over or you whipped them with
your Cape. Or whatever it was and kind of
(21:24):
why we made those decisions. And then, right, maybe it will
be more easy to, or you'll mightbe able to recognize like, oh,
actually I have these other things in my life, right?
These two other jugs or cuffs and right, those are really
fulfilling and I'm really happy about those.
So now I can turn a bit more towards those and choose those.
Coping skills. Fill those cups right instead of
(21:47):
just trying to ignore the three that have.
Overturned. All right.
So let's. Dive in and see what the cards
have to say. Today on this.
Topic right? How do we do that?
How do we? Right.
Other than, perhaps? In therapy, how do?
We think about these right challenging experiences we've
(22:09):
had in the. Past or choices.
That we've made and. Lovingly and gently like examine
what? What we did and right.
Maybe have some regret. About and like make different
choices in the future. Right, It's not usually helpful
to just. Berate ourselves or tell
ourselves that that was terrible.
(22:29):
Just don't do it again, right? I think we all kind of know, or
I guess maybe we've learned by this point that that doesn't
really work, right? This is sort of also the idea of
like, punitive measures for things, right?
If you just have punishment, yeah, you might learn that if
you do that thing, you get punished.
(22:51):
And sometimes that can be a reason enough not to do it.
But a lot of times people just get used to the punishment and
then maybe, Right, take that on.It's like, oh, this is just, I
deserve this. This is how I am because I'm so
bad, right? That's the idea of shame.
So how do we right view our pastmistakes or things we've done?
(23:13):
Choices we made with this sort of.
Critical lens but be able to take a a heart driven right or
loving. Sort of response to it or look
at it and see why we. Made those decisions.
And then right, hopefully again.Look at those two.
(23:36):
Cups that are still standing andright, work towards those, work
on filling those and kind of. Focusing on the things that we
do have or the things that are working really well that we are
good at and then that can make it easier to to, to to hold that
great criticism or feedback fromother people about what we might
(23:59):
not be doing the best at. OK, I.
Pulled the brawler in reverse. So the brawler is what it sounds
like. It has like 2 hands that are
like. Wrapped in, you know, gauze or
whatever, like as if you were boxing someone.
It says lack of empathy and confrontation, so I'm imagining
this is going to be about right not doing that.
(24:21):
Let's see, Brawler. In reverse a conflict.
Is causing tension in your life?But rather than letting it run,
(24:42):
its. Course you've been bottling it
up to try and avoid a confrontation.
This will. Only lead to a.
Breakdown in trust find the healthy balance between.
Expressing your needs clearly and keeping the peace What?
Seems like an incoming. Argument may turn out to be
nothing once you've cleared. The air.
So yeah, again, this is kind of the idea of like being able to
(25:05):
look at, right? And actually.
Like hold. That potential for
confrontation. Or write this thing that maybe
you did that you're not. Proud of and.
Being able to. Express your needs right.
Keeping the peace and not turning this into like an
argument or a thing that becauseyou feel bad about it, you maybe
(25:27):
want other. People to.
Feel bad too, or point out theirmistakes so that they're on a
level playing field, right? It's kind of saying that don't
let that potential, like ruin what's going on in your life
right now. Let it run its course, right?
Allow yourself to. Feel the emotions process and
(25:48):
move through them. And don't just follow them up,
because usually that just means that eventually.
They will explode. All right.
So links for the tarot decks I talk about.
Always in the show notes, so on my.
Website if you'd like to look atthem or purchase.
Them and thanks for joining me. Today on Everyday Tarot.
Just as a reminder, the podcast comes out daily Monday to Friday
(26:08):
for all of 2025. You can e-mail me me at Camille
a Saunders dot. Com with your thoughts,
questions and more. I would love to hear from you if
you have any. Ideas for future seasons or any
questions about? Certain cards or processes.
Cards you find, really. Challenging or.
(26:30):
Words you don't understand. Or anything else.
So yeah, I hope to hear from youand see you soon.
Bye bye.
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