August 13, 2025 • 51 mins
Season 13 of Every Day Tarot opens with a vital conversation before stepping into the magic of the Harry Potter world.
In this episode, we explore the irony of JK Rowling’s public persona, how the books often portray femininity and intuition in a negative light, and the ways the fandom has reclaimed the wizarding world to center inclusivity and queer joy.
What we explore in this episode:
JK Rowling’s trans-exclusionary radical feminist (TERF) stance
How the Harry Potter books reveal a pattern of devaluing femininity and intuitive arts like divination
How the fandom has reclaimed the series to center inclusivity, diversity, and queer joy
When Magic Meets Reality
JK Rowling, born Joanne Rowling, has been publicly vocal since 2020 about her trans-exclusionary radical feminist (TERF) beliefs—views that deny the validity of trans women’s identities and actively push against their rights, including access to healthcare.
Her stance isn’t just a matter of poorly chosen tweets. She has founded and personally funds the JK Rowling Women’s Fund, which supports legal cases designed to challenge trans inclusion and remove gender-affirming care. The fund takes no public donations; it is entirely powered by her wealth—wealth she built from all the books, films, merchandise, and spin-offs that make up the HP wizarding world.
This has placed Harry Potter fans in a deeply personal ethical dilemma: How do we reconcile a story that taught us about friendship, bravery, and acceptance with the reality that its creator is actively funding harm against marginalized communities?
The Fandom’s Reclamation Work
The Harry Potter series no longer belongs solely to its author. Stories live and grow in the hearts of those who read them.
We can honor the parts of the series that shaped us while holding Rowling accountable for her harm. We can channel our energy into creating inclusive spaces, supporting trans and queer communities, and practicing the magic of connection that the books once inspired in us.
After all, the real magic isn’t in a wand, it’s in the choice to build a better world where everyone feels safe to be themselves.
To explore the energy of this episode, I pulled cards from the Sasuraibito Tarot:
The Devil - seduction of power and the shadow side of attachment.
The Tower - collapse of illusions; the shock of seeing the truth.
Eight of Cups - walking away from what no longer aligns, seeking deeper meaning.
The World - wholeness and integration, reclaiming the narrative.
If you haven't listened to my other seasons yet, go check them out!
💭 Today's Tarot Pull:
From The Citadel: A Fantasy Oracle by Fen Inkwright, I pulled The Enchantress.
A card about repairing trust after deception, rebuilding connections, and finding reconciliation where possible.
Reflective prompts on this card:
Where might I be deceiving myself about a situation or a person?
How do I discern between illusion and reality in my current circumstances?
What steps can I take to repair trust in myself or in a relationship?
Ways to Connect & Support
Tarot Card Creation Workshop: Get the full recording, examples of the tarot cards I’ve created, journaling questions, and PDF to walk you through it for just $33. Purchase now!
12 week Tarot for Transformation Live Course: In this offer we will be deep diving into the Major Arcana to Discover Our Best Selves and Create a Life Worth Living. Sign up here!
Patreon: For individual readings, and behind-the-scenes peeks, join the Every Day Tarot Patreon family.
Newsletter: Get my FREE 2025 5-Card Tarot Spread PDF + magic straight to your inbox.
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Everyday Tarot, your daily dive into the
divine wisdom of the tarot. I'm your host Camille A
Saunders, healer, Tara enthusiast and professional
witch, and today I'm talking about JK Rowling.
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(00:21):
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(00:44):
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(01:05):
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(01:26):
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(01:48):
listeners at the beginning of this year.
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So if you'd like to work with someone that doesn't judge you,
(02:10):
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Tarot, in addition to the imagesof the cards I pull on each
episode. All right, so welcome to season
(02:33):
13 where I am talking all about Divination and the Harry Potter
series. If you haven't listened to my
other seasons yet, you can checkthose out.
In season 1, I talked to Tarot Basics seasons two and three.
I went through all the Major Arcana cards and an overview of
the four suits in Season 4. I talked about Tara and pop
culture where I did an episode on Harry Potter and on Professor
(02:55):
Charlani, which has led me to kind of do this whole season
deep dive into the Harry Potter series, divination and
everything to go along with it. In season 5 I talked different
13 common tarot spreads. Season 678 and 9 I went through
all of the suit of wands, pentacles, swords and cups.
Season 10 was all about tarot and witchcraft.
(03:17):
Season 11 tarot and plant allies.
And I just wrapped up season 12 about tarot and animals.
Like I said, we are on to season13 where I'm talking all about
divination and the Harry Potter series.
And today I felt the need to start it out by talking about JK
Rowling. So I'll give a bit of background
on myself and sort of me and theHarry Potter series.
(03:41):
We're going to talk about JK Rowling.
We're going to analyze differentaspects around JKR and talk
about why not to support her. Then we're going to get into
some cards that I feel like depict the situation or related
to it. We'll talk about some meanings
(04:03):
or lessons learned, and then we'll dive in and see what
message the cards have to share with us today.
So let's talk about me first andwhy I want to do a whole season
on the Harry Potter series and Divination.
So I grew up reading all the books in elementary school from
elementary school on. And as a family, my parents
(04:24):
actually read me the first couple of books.
And then as I got older, in kindof elementary school and middle
school, as the books came out inthe 2000s and as I got older, I
started, you know, reading them on my own.
We would still read them aloud, actually as a family.
(04:44):
My parents would, and I would listen.
But I started reading ahead. And my mom was very impressed
with me that I did not spoil some of the later books and was
able to just kind of like, enjoyit as I went with my siblings.
I'm the oldest kid so my youngersiblings grew up with the books
as well. We actually would listen to.
(05:06):
We had all of the books on CD audio book at the time and as
the books got longer there were so many C DS per book.
We actually owned them all at one point.
So I grew up listening to the toJim Dale read the books for like
(05:28):
the US editions, Stephen Fry read the UK edition ones.
But I'm used to Jim Dale. And actually, as I'm recording
this, like two or three days ago, they just announced that
they're going to do a whole new Harry Potter audio books, like
cast or they're going to cast all the parts and have them all
(05:50):
record. So that will be coming soon,
which will be very cool. If you've ever listened to audio
books where there's like a full cast and they do like, like
background sounds and stuff likethat, instead of basically
having one person like read for everyone.
So that would be very cool as well.
But anyway, so yeah, I grew up reading all the books.
(06:14):
We listened to them. Very familiar, probably like
still top number one book seriesin my life.
I would say more about you know,me and my relation to the Harry
Potter series. I identify as a Slytherin.
(06:35):
My favorite book is Half Blood Print.
My favorite movie is Goblet of Fire, and I've been listening to
a podcast by Harry Potter Mugglecast.
Been a listener since 2006 and Mango Castle started in 2005
where you used to have to go online and like download the RSS
(06:56):
feed to you know, whatever device you could your computer
at the time. And then later I would download
it onto like my iPod touch I think to listen and stuff like
that. But anyway, the podcast has been
going now for 20 years. So very cool.
Again, I grew up basically listening to podcast and that
(07:20):
was part of why I was so excitedto start my own as well because
I love the Muggle Cast podcast. I'm still a listener, I am on
their Patreon and all sorts of things.
So and then my favorite character in the books is
probably Luna Lovegood. I said because I am also a
(07:41):
weirdo. I also love how direct and also
how open minded she is. I love how she connects to Harry
later in the books around grief.And yeah, I mean I love a lot of
the characters. I loved Hermione when I was
younger as well. It's very fun to see like a
bookish, you know, student girl get such.
(08:07):
Yeah to be featured. You know, she wasn't the main
character but in the top three there and have a lot of like
strong female characters, which is interesting as we go into the
rest of this episode. So JK Rowling wrote the books.
Her name is Joanne Rowling. The K is not even her middle
(08:27):
name. I believe it's her grandmother's
name, Kathleen, and she says that she used that name like JK
Rowling and the choice to use like initials only.
(08:48):
She sort of said different things over the years, but
basically because she, like, didn't want boys to not pick up
the book because it was written by a girl.
That's what I would say is like the gist of us, which again, is
all very interesting in the context of what we're talking
about today. So she is the author, Joanne.
(09:11):
She has written other series, but definitely Harry Potter's
the one she's most well known for.
She was beloved, I would say. And then I'd say the book series
is still very much beloved. The movies as well.
They're coming out with ATV series starting in I think will
be coming out in 2027. They're filming right now for
(09:36):
sort of this next generation of people to get to know Harry
Potter and she. JK Rowling yeah is a turf which
is a trans exclusionary radical feminist.
She self identifies this way. She has now been a very
(09:59):
staunched her for years. I believe really when she
started tweeting about things in2020 was when sort of like the
larger media and the fandom became sort of like couldn't
(10:22):
really ignore anymore her dislike of trans people.
Basically trans exclusionary radical feminist means she
doesn't believe trans women are women.
(10:42):
She likes to spell lots of stuffabout biological sex and studies
and things like that that are pseudoscience.
She has at this point has an entire, let me find the
(11:05):
basically like foundation or yeah, I guess it's called a fund
in the US. It would be like a almost like a
pack like PAC that funds politicians.
(11:26):
But yeah, anyway, so that started, or at least she was
sort of very open about it five years ago in 2020, she was
tweeting so many things, just sort of an onslaught of terrible
things. And now there's a lot,
(11:47):
especially in the UK of turfs like cozying up with members of
the alt right for power. So there's like a very, I mean,
in the UK and certainly here in the US, a huge political push
that would see trans people removed from access to
healthcare. That's definitely happening here
in the US It's kind of going state by state, but also our
(12:09):
current administration is definitely not in favor of
giving trans folks any sort of gender affirming care.
And also not just giving it, butlike also actively taking it
away. It's being, you know, trans
folks are being legally discriminated against,
marginalized, higher risk of assault, murder, suicide, and
(12:30):
all of that, even more so than they were five years ago.
And yeah, it came, I think in June that there was an
announcement to that JK Rowling had formed the JK Rowling
Woman's Fund, which will directly impact court cases
against transgender people. The cases would normally not be
(12:51):
deemed financially viable, or sothe cases themselves.
It's like she's basically supporting things where the case
normally wouldn't be viable. But she set up a fund
specifically to fund these cases.
And in the like press release that says individuals and
organizations that fund is designed to support include
(13:13):
individuals who are facing tribunals.
You know, sounds a lot like witch hunt because of their
expressed beliefs are being forced to comply with
unreasonable inclusion policies regarding single sex spaces.
Have issued legal challenges to legislation which it says takes
away the freedoms or protectionswomen's are entitled to or who
(13:35):
otherwise cannot afford to bringactions to court to defend
themselves. And basically she is solely
funding this fund. It is all coming out of her own
money and she has made billions off of the Harry Potter series
at this point by doing all the books and all the merch and all
(13:57):
the movies. And right, I mean, she's still
going to get money from the TV show.
She gets money from the HogwartsLegacy Harry Potter game, kind
of anything that is part of the intellectual property of Harry
Potter generally she gets some money from.
And this fund, like does not take donations.
(14:18):
It's like literally just her, right?
So we literally have like very clear evidence that like she is
personally funding this very scary, horrifying like onslaught
of trans people. She's doing it in the UK, but
because she is spouting her harmon X or Twitter as well, like
(14:45):
it's everywhere now and again. A lot of the fandom has in the
last five years really like broken away from her.
It's very much the idea of like,OK, John Green, the author talks
about that once a piece of art, like writing fiction is sort of
(15:06):
written by the author and then sent out into the world, it
becomes the property of the fandom or the readers, the
people that actually take it on and, you know, read it and do
things in their own lives based off of what they read and all
these things. And so that is definitely one
point of view you can take. Like, I definitely still, like I
(15:28):
said, I still identify as a Harry Potter fan.
I have played Hogwarts Legacy, the video game.
I will probably watch the Harry Potter TV show.
But I think as, like, individuals, they have to
decide, right? Like, where our own ethics are
around giving money to her, especially knowing that JK
Rowling is funding trans hatred legislatively and harm, not just
(15:54):
hatred, but like, actively taking away people's healthcare.
And she's a billionaire, so she has a lot of money to do it.
And she. Yeah, so there is all of that.
Where do I want to go from here?So yeah, that's sort of like
(16:15):
about her. Like I said, I listen to Mogul
Cast, the podcast about Harry Potter or a podcast about Harry
Potter that's been going on for 20 years now.
And they have done some episodesabout.
They did an episode in 2020 sortof right after all of the tweets
came out and the media was kind of publishing a lot of articles
(16:36):
about JK Rowling and her position on trans people or her
own beliefs that are factually incorrect about trans people.
So that in Mogo Cast episode 469, which was recorded or
posted in June 15th in 2020, they had an episode titled Why
(16:59):
JK Rowling is Wrong about Trans People.
So that was part of what I was referencing here.
And the podcast has helped me, Iwould say like figure out right,
my own ethics around this. Like some people when the
Hogwarts Legacy Harry Potter came game, Harry Potter game
(17:21):
came out, which is like an open world game, which the fandom has
really wanted for a long time, where you can just fly around
and explore. Like there is a plot line, but
you can just kind of be in the world as well.
It's also a very diverse game and a lot of great people worked
on it. It's just when people chose to,
OK, I'm not going to buy the game new because some of that,
(17:42):
you know, proceeds will go to JKRowling.
I'll buy it used. So I'm not, you know, directly
contributing to her pocketbook. And that way, right, there are
other things you can do. Some fans choose to right not
really identify as a Harry Potter fan at all anymore or or
(18:06):
a fan of her. I would say the fandom is pretty
strongly against her positionality.
The fandom is very diverse, the fandom is very queer and trans
friendly and also a lot of folksare LGBTQIA plus.
And it feels very ironic coming from a book series that was so
(18:32):
about inclusivity and the struggles, even in the wizarding
world, about, right, like, racism and hatred of other
people that aren't like themselves.
Like that we all grew up as fansreading the books, kind of
learning all these, like, values.
(18:54):
And now it feels very counterintuitive that JK Rowling
has chosen this sort of crusade against trans women in
particular, but sort of trans people overall, especially
around the healthcare aspect of it, and is very strongly.
(19:17):
She will not listen. She's no interest in being
swayed from what I can tell. And there's been sort of a lot
of, there's a podcast about it, like a particular series.
Oh yeah. That was called The Witch Trials
of JK Rowling that kind of talked about, they interviewed
(19:38):
JK Rowling herself about these topics.
And then also folks in the fandom and trans people.
I'm trying to remember when it came out.
There's kind of like a documentary series.
Yeah, Well, but yeah, so part ofalso why I'm doing this whole
(20:00):
Harry Potter season right now isbecause I'm going to Enchanticon
next week for me on. August 14th, Well, it starts on
the 15th in St. Louis, MO, which used to be
called Leakey Con, which was a Harry Potter specific
conference. I mean convention.
(20:22):
There were other sort of fandomsas well that were part of it,
but even they have sort of renamed the conference to be
about fantasy in general and to not even have in name a sort of
affiliation to the Harry Potter world or JK Rowling in
particular. Because yeah, the fandom is very
(20:44):
against her where she stands on this issue and how harmful she
is being to trans people. And so I wanted to make sure
that right as I do a whole season about Harry Potter and
deep diving into it, about divination and Tarot, which I'm
super excited to do that. I wanted to have an episode
(21:05):
about JK Rowling as well. Because I think it's important
to write be intentional about where we stand.
What would know what she the hatred she is spewing and the
causes and all these different things.
(21:25):
And again, like this has been going on since 2020 where she's
been very clear about it. I would say maybe I'll talk
about it more later in the in this season, but about maybe
signs that were in the Harry Potter books about some of her
hatred towards femininity even. It's very, I don't know, it's
(21:48):
kind of complex because so yeah,let's get into that a little bit
more. So also to kind of kick this off
recently, just like a week ago for me, I believe.
Yeah, it was July 31st, 2025. Jinx Monsoon had a clip on an
(22:14):
upcoming interview with Zewee where they were asked about
whether JK Rowling would make a good Roxy Hart in Chicago
because Jinx is going to play ona Broadway role.
And Jinx talked about, I can like read the whole quote, but
(22:36):
basically she says like, right, there's all this irony in that
JK Rowling like named herself like try to hide basically that
she was a woman or femininity, right in writing the books and
putting her name on the books asa sort of ambiguous like gender
neutral name on the books. And now she is so against trans
(23:02):
people living their lives and has so much hatred towards them
that it is, like, very. I don't know.
The irony is very clear. So.
Yeah. So Ziwe asks, you know, I'll
have the clip in the show notes if you want to watch the whole
thing. But yeah.
She asks, like, OK, you know, doyou think Jake here, Rolling
(23:24):
would make a good Roxy Hart in Chicago?
Jinx talks about who is Jake? Who is he?
Jake. Hey, Rolling.
Ziya points out. Oh, no.
Rolling says she. And Monsoon says, Oh, dear,
that's not a feminine name in the slightest.
Then she sort of like, you know,pretending to be confused, says,
oh, I know that sometimes femaleauthors use initials so that
(23:46):
people assume it's a male writer.
And then says, oh, I have to presume that JK Rowling was
unsatisfied with the way that the world saw her and then
transitioned herself and a new personality so the world would
perceive her the way she wants to be perceived, which I think
it is very true. And she continued to do so when
(24:06):
she went on and wrote another series after the Harry Potter
series, the Corman Strike crime series, she used another, like,
male pseudonym, Robert Galbraithto do so.
And she sort of says, like, oh, I wanted to like, distance
myself. I didn't want people to just buy
the books because of my famous name.
(24:28):
But again, very interesting thatshe chose to have a male
pseudonym, that one like much more clearly male than her
original like choice around using initials that, again, are
not even her initials. I don't think she has a middle
name. And so like, she sort of created
this persona again, as Jinx talks about, so that people
(24:52):
would like perceive her a certain way.
So we have that aspect and this sort of like dragging of JK
Rowling in this way where again,it's like the irony is very
clear around this, where she's OK with presenting or pretending
to be a man as long as it is serving her and her work.
(25:16):
And I don't know, selling more books or if she feels protected
by that, but she is not OK with any trans people basically
existing as themselves or havingany sort of transition or.
And she goes into again, all this spewing nonsense about
biological sex. And how can like, oh, that men
(25:37):
are going to pretend to be womento get into women's bathrooms?
And like all this nonsense wherewe know the data and research
says that trans people are the most likely to get assaulted in
bathrooms much more than says people, and that they are
(26:00):
actually the ones that are very at risk a lot of the time and
have a lot of violence committedagainst them and murder.
And so this is just like a totally unacceptable and
outright lie, right? That one that this that she
states these things. What else do I want to say on
(26:22):
this episode? I'll get into it a little more
in next episode where I talk about Hermione's perception of
divination and Professor Trelawney and you know by way of
that tarot in the books where we're going to talk about
femininity a bit more. But Jake and rolling also, if
you go through the books, like has a lot of as the author like
(26:47):
portrays a lot of characters with hatred towards people that
are hyper like like have this hyper femininity or just
femininity in general. So Muggle cast in an episode 634
analyzing the representation of women in Harry Potter.
(27:10):
And apologies, I'm searching in the transcript right now.
But anyway, they talked a lot about how, yeah, Hermione is
very judgmental of Professor Tolani and divination.
She hates the subject. She drops out and she's very
(27:32):
like, I don't know, just kind oflike has a lot of hatred about
it. She sees it as a, I would say,
like a pseudoscience. She doesn't really believe in
it. She thinks Professor Tolani is a
fake and a fraud and that this isn't a serious subject in
(27:54):
school, even though it is a required class for I think 3rd
through fifth years in the school.
And then for 6th year they get to opt into some of their
classes out of that. But everyone is required to take
divination early on. And, yeah, And so Hermione, that
(28:17):
JK Rowling speaks a lot about that Hermione is sort of like
herself in the books, that this was kind of the kind of kid she
was. She highly identifies with
Hermione. So it sounds like even JK
Rowling is very skeptical, I would say, of divination.
And right, tarot is a type of divination.
(28:39):
Again, I'll get a little bit more into that and as we go
throughout the season, but divination basically just means
divining the future. And there are different ways of
doing divination. Tarot is one of them.
And again, I'll talk a lot aboutdifferent kinds of divination as
we go throughout this season. And then we also have like later
(29:01):
in the books, we have Professor Umbridge, who again, is sort of
described as like a hyper femme,like wears only pink gloves,
cats. And it's supposed to be sort of
like this in contrast to her actual, I don't know, behavior.
But she has like JK really and clearly has a sort of like
(29:22):
demonizing girlishness. Like there's a lot of like women
hating women in the books. There's a lot of Hermione think
she's better than other people because again, like she goes
towards these much more serious subjects that she quote, UN
quote serious. And she doesn't really believe
(29:42):
in these ones that are more about intuition and less about
learning something from a book. Hermione is very book smart, but
I would say she's not necessarily super in touch with
her intuition, which is seen as a, like, feminine trait.
(30:03):
And what else? Yeah.
And there's just a lot of like, we have Lavender Brown later in
the books that Ron dates. She's gigglish and girly, and
she's seen as very, like, childish and naive and, like,
again, silly, like put down because she has this, like,
girlishness. She's like, into the romance.
(30:24):
Even with love potions and stuff.
They're very much belittled in the book series.
And then we actually see that they're very serious and very
intense and clearly, like, yeah,from reading the books, you
would think, wow, JK Rowling hates femininity and pink.
And sort of all of these, like, representations of pink in the
(30:48):
series are very negative. And then JK Rowling apparently
has also gone to said that, like, pink is her favorite
color. So there's this like, very like,
I don't know, like shadow side to the way that she says things.
And then also what she really feels like, I don't know, it
like there is this larger discussion, I would say about
(31:10):
like JK Rowling, like not wanting to identify as like
feminine again, or as this like hyper femme because it is seen
as like more silly or that womenshould be serious and be more
masculine and like men if they're going to be taken
seriously in the world. She really like feeds into that.
(31:33):
Like in the books, again, even Petunia Dursley, you know,
presents so it's very feminine, like the perfect 1950s
housewife. But then she's also like, I
don't know, you know, like then she's like very abusive and
awful. So we see that a lot of these,
like, hyper feminine characters or even just ones presenting
with any femininity are like, basically painted as evil or
(31:58):
silly or like more of Pervadi and Lavender in the books.
And there is this like, I don't know, it just really makes me
think like, does JK Rowling hatethis like feminine part of
herself? I think she has even said that
as a kid, like she wished she was a boy.
(32:19):
Wear a gun. I'm like, oh, like, girl, you
gotta work with your shadow sideof yourself instead of like so
outwardly hating, right? Or just not even believing that
trans people exist and that eventhough like, again, she can
clearly understand for herself that like it is hard to be a
(32:43):
woman in the world. She's been through a lot of like
she had JK Rowling has been through domestic violence.
That's a lot of what she was going through right before she
wrote the book series. She was had left a abusive
relationship with her young child, was very poor and was
(33:08):
trying to survive. And that was like part of this
part of herself that kind of like, came up with this idea for
the Harry Potter books. And yeah, it just seems like
there's a lot of fear around being perceived as feminine and
(33:30):
that there is power in that instead of the only power comes
from being masculine or being leaning into the power that is
given directly to men. Yeah.
It's just, I don't know, there's, there's a lot there I
(33:53):
would say. And I wish that she could work
with her right shadow part of self to be in touch with her
intuition and instead of, you know, spewing hatred for trans
people because she's afraid of men seemingly.
(34:17):
Like that's why she goes into all these tirades about
bathrooms and things like that. That like, again, I think if she
could like, work on her own trauma, perhaps like she could
better understand this like shadow side of herself that
actually, like, being feminine does not make you more actually
(34:46):
there's nothing wrong with beinga feminine that women are often
a target for violence by men, but that you can't just save
yourself from that by not presenting as feminine or
rejecting that part of yourself.That's not really how it works.
(35:10):
We have to fix the culture around violence and around
power. And right now, JK Rowling is
enacting so much power and violence from her position of
privilege. And again, instead of like
interrogating her own challengeswith that part of herself and
(35:34):
utilizing her great wealth and privilege to uplift marginalized
people and protect trans people and allow trans people to choose
the healthcare that they want that they know is best for
(35:55):
themselves and to not create a more abusive healthcare system
that is so focused on this like,quote UN quote biological aspect
of people. OK.
I think that's where we're goingto end that tirade from me.
(36:17):
And again, like I said, I'll getmore into this like femininity
aspect of JK Rowling and I link,I'll link all the Muggle cast
episodes. I'm referencing the card.
So I think for the season, I'm going to be picking cards that
are sort of like the vibe or a gun sort of this like shadow
(36:38):
side of what we're talking about.
So I pulled from the Sasser BitoTarot dock today by Sassia
Burrington and I pulled the Devil, the Tower, the 8 of Cups
and the world. Because this is really what I
see is sort of like the story ofthis situation of dealing with
(37:02):
this sort of like amazing, wonderful, magical like book
series that changed so many people's lives.
And that was such a great force of like encouraging children to
read and encouraging kids to understand diversity and the
power of diversity and includingother people and identifying
(37:27):
bullying and abuse behavior and showing like what, you know, can
happen when we transmute trauma into something good or like, you
know, try to like heal from it. And so, yeah, let's get into
that. So I picked the devil card
because at least in this duck, it basically just pick depicts
(37:51):
like a man, a very like shadowy dark hair, dark eyes, like man.
And again, the devil card is different throughout different
decks. And the devil card really isn't
usually about like a literal devil, but more about this idea
(38:12):
of like temptation. And I think the devil card here
very much represents like JQ Rowling has given into her
temptation to use her narrative that like of abuse and things
trauma that she went through andto like use that against people.
(38:36):
I think she has fallen into thislike seductive alt right
narrative that has of like, oh, if we just the only way to
protect yourself or protect against violence is to keep
trans people out of bathrooms, which is ridiculous.
(39:00):
But anyway, yeah. So in this card it says the
devil represents desire, earthlyneeds, lust and the attraction
of material pleasure, right. There's also a lot of material
pleasure going on for JK Rowling.
She lives in like basically likea massive castle house by
herself in Scotland. I believe living off of her
(39:25):
wealth, the devil is highly seductive.
The danger here is in giving into desire to the detriment of
your health, growth, and the impact on yourself and those you
love. And again, I think like the
fandom and the impact on the fandom has been kind of like
heartbreaking. Addiction and compulsive
behaviors are risks, risks of overindulgence.
(39:48):
The devil's temptation will appear as your great desires.
The devil is everything you want.
But in imbalance, the devil can lead to vice, weak will,
anxiety, depression, anger, doubt, pessimism and ignorance,
which I would say are all the things that I believe she is
going through right now. And on the flip side, fear of
the devil will result in being too controlled, calculated and
(40:10):
dispassionate, restricting you from possibility and any
pleasure. And I think Jakey Rolling has a
lot of fear again, like from herown, I would say history with
having been abused and controlled by others, in
particular men in her life, and she has sort of allowed that to
(40:35):
make her worldview very narrow. The next card I pulled was the
tower, which the tower comes right after the devil in the
major Arcana. If we think of sort of this as
like a story, the tower, right, is a often it's a violent card.
It's showing often a tree or a man made tower struck by
(40:56):
lightning. The event is catastrophic and
foundation shaking. And I think this is sort of like
what happened and to the fandom is like this.
So JK Rowling Wright presented herself and her ideas as the
devil. She doesn't see it that way, I
would say, but I do. And then there was this tower
moment in the world of like, oh,this beloved author that created
(41:19):
a gun, this like, amazing seriesand all these great things
really showed herself. And it like was this disaster,
sudden change, disruption, foundation shaking.
It could mean danger, crisis, chaos and hard times.
It may be uncomfortable. The tower suggests an explosive
transformation which can lead todisillusionment and an ego blow.
(41:42):
But this also offers up liberation from old structures
and revelation and freedom. The discomfort here comes from
reality not conforming to expectation, right?
Sometimes when we put people right on this pedestal of they
are perfection, they created this amazing series that did all
(42:02):
these great things right. The reality did not totally
conform to our expectation. We thought we learned things
from the book because of like her own value and belief system.
And I don't know if that's like true anymore or was even true at
the time. I think the sort of like
(42:22):
millennial generation like took from the books the things that
were probably the most helpful to us and the values that we
maybe already embodied, but saw play out in the certain way of,
again, inclusion and diversity. And it says you may need a new
approach to thinking about a problem.
(42:43):
And so this really right again, I would say shook the fandom.
Was this like a gun? Like if you think of lightning,
right, the sort of like shattering, splintering of
aspects of the fandom? Like people choosing to write
never really read or think aboutthe series ever again or to not
(43:04):
identify with it, to not participate in the fandom or to
kind of take back the fandom as our own and what we see it to be
and it's inclusionary nature andall the good things from the
books and not taking the hate shorten parts.
Then I pulled the 8 of cups, which the image for the 8 of
(43:26):
cups and this deck is someone that looks very they're like
naked. They look like they've been
through a lot and they're sort of like sitting down and leaning
their head over and they're likecutting off some of their hair.
I also just thought this was like an interesting imagery as
(43:46):
we talk about, again, like transition, trans people,
transformation. So the aid of cups is generally
about like exhaustion. I think of like grief,
disappointment and release. The card indicates feelings of
emotional exhaustion, burnt out,abandonment and withdrawal.
Which again, I think it's like alot of what people that love the
(44:07):
Harry Potter series felt when JKRowling kind of like revealed
this vitriol. It could mean the start of a
journey of discovery spurred by overextending yourself.
There may be a need to let go ofmaterial possessions to seek
deeper meaning. You might be giving too much,
not getting enough in return, feeling tired and listless.
(44:28):
It may be time to let go and abandoned A hopeless situation
or any old ideas that are dragging you down.
I find that in the past, in times of stress, I cut my hair.
I feel like I'm actually disposing of the past.
The extra weight, the dry ends, the old me, this is akin to
shedding your skin to make room for new growth, for reinvention
(44:48):
and a feeling of lightness. And then finally, I pulled the
world, which is the last card inthe Major Arcana.
Because I feel like this is kindof like this full circle, like
coming to the fandom, sort of recognizing, OK, like we can
take the parts we want. This series is now ours.
(45:14):
It's not hers anymore. We get to write fan fiction.
We get to have discussions and conventions about the things
that we value about the books and that have changed.
Our lives are the way that we see them.
And she doesn't get to decide anymore what is true and what
isn't. It says the world represents the
(45:34):
fulfillment and the successful completion of a cycle.
This card shows up when the world is ready for you and wants
what you have to offer. This is the last card in the
Major Arcana and as such signifies wholeness,
satisfaction and accomplishment,prosperity and contentedness.
And I think again, this is what like we as Harry Potter book
(45:55):
series fans had to find was like.
Where can we feel content with our own ethics and values if we
are going to participate in talking about the series and
again, having large national annual conventions about it.
How do we you know kind of like find find our way, you know and
(46:19):
what we ideal is satisfying and signifying wholeness and kind of
setting aside the parts. Maybe the people right that that
we may be used to like worship or put on a pedestal or that we
(46:40):
thought were kind of like the creators.
Like, yes, she had the idea. She right kind of created this
thing, I would say again out of her own situation and trauma and
created this fantastical world where there's like this endless
(47:01):
possibility. And now we get to play in the
world of endless possibility andwe don't have to write reverse.
This card's about being stuck incomfort zones, incomplete
projects, needing to finish whatyou start.
So it's about finding a gun likesatisfaction, contentedness in
where we stand in our ethics about the series and our
(47:22):
participation in it or our like giving of money to her or to the
brand of the wizarding world or anything like that.
All right, so let's this is a long episode.
These will probably all be long because I have a lot to say
about this, but let's go ahead and pull a card and see what the
(47:46):
message for today is that we need to learn, or anything else
that we can glean from this discussion.
I'm pulling from The Citadel, a fantasy Oracle by Fenn
Inkwright. This felt appropriate as a very
fantastical deck as we talk about this fantastical series
(48:13):
and this depiction of the Citadel gives Hogwarts vibes.
To be honest. On the back of the card there's
like a city that's depicted and it looks kind of like Hogwarts.
OK, I pulled the Enchanter, but I pulled it in reverse.
So it says it's about deception and trickery.
OK, let's see here. Pointing up.
(48:40):
OK, reversed. The Enchanter reverse addresses
the repairing of relationships after a deception comes to
light. Wow, how appropriate.
You or someone you know may havehad the truth of their deceit
revealed, willingly or not, losing them the trust of others.
Now is the chance to work together to reach a state of
reconciliation. And again, I think that that is
(49:01):
really where the fandom is at. I know I enjoyed going to Leaky
Khan last year in 2024 in Portland, OR and hearing all
these discussions about how to sort of take back the fandom as
our own. How to how we personally and as
(49:23):
a fandom, like interrogate theseaspects that are in the series
that are more challenging or that do sort of come up against
our values of diversity and inclusion.
And also just like the grief, right, of like the eight of cups
card of like that deceit being revealed, right?
I think it sort of felt like, oh, we read these books and I
(49:45):
thought I learned these things because again, the author was so
open minded and inclusionary andall these things.
And it's like, I'll come to findout like, no, maybe in some ways
and maybe for the time period itwas in, but now we're in this
place where like it has transcended what was depicted in
(50:07):
the books. And also just like we've moved
on as a culture, I would say. I guess not all of us have
because of our current politics,but and current administration.
But yeah, this is very interesting card to pull, right?
That being enchanter, the being enchanted and sort of thinking
(50:31):
that it's all one way and then feeling deceived and how that
makes us feel stupid instead of realizing that right, Like
abusers will deceive and manipulate to get what they want
and that really that's not our fault if we believed them.
(50:56):
Because we should be able to believe what people say if they
are being authentic instead of trying to suss out every person
in the world and their motives. All right, we'll end there for
now. In closing, if you'd like to
(51:17):
join me on the journey of using the Tarot for transformation,
you can click on the link in theshow notes to indicate your
interest. We'll be working together for 12
weeks of calls and journaling and lots more to discover what
happens when we want to transform our lives through the
tarot. Links for the tarot decks I
talked about always be in the show notes and on my website if
you'd like to look at them or purchase them.
(51:38):
And thanks for joining me today on Everyday Tarot.
Just as a reminder, the podcast will come out daily, Monday
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camillesaunders.com with your thoughts, questions and more.
All right, see you soon. Bye bye.
Hello and welcome to Everyday Tarot, your daily dive into the
divine wisdom of the tarot. I'm your host Camille A
Saunders, healer, Tara enthusiast and professional
witch, and today I'm talking about JK Rowling.
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Tarot, in addition to the imagesof the cards I pull on each
episode. All right, so welcome to season
(02:33):
13 where I am talking all about Divination and the Harry Potter
series. If you haven't listened to my
other seasons yet, you can checkthose out.
In season 1, I talked to Tarot Basics seasons two and three.
I went through all the Major Arcana cards and an overview of
the four suits in Season 4. I talked about Tara and pop
culture where I did an episode on Harry Potter and on Professor
(02:55):
Charlani, which has led me to kind of do this whole season
deep dive into the Harry Potter series, divination and
everything to go along with it. In season 5 I talked different
13 common tarot spreads. Season 678 and 9 I went through
all of the suit of wands, pentacles, swords and cups.
Season 10 was all about tarot and witchcraft.
(03:17):
Season 11 tarot and plant allies.
And I just wrapped up season 12 about tarot and animals.
Like I said, we are on to season13 where I'm talking all about
divination and the Harry Potter series.
And today I felt the need to start it out by talking about JK
Rowling. So I'll give a bit of background
on myself and sort of me and theHarry Potter series.
(03:41):
We're going to talk about JK Rowling.
We're going to analyze differentaspects around JKR and talk
about why not to support her. Then we're going to get into
some cards that I feel like depict the situation or related
to it. We'll talk about some meanings
(04:03):
or lessons learned, and then we'll dive in and see what
message the cards have to share with us today.
So let's talk about me first andwhy I want to do a whole season
on the Harry Potter series and Divination.
So I grew up reading all the books in elementary school from
elementary school on. And as a family, my parents
(04:24):
actually read me the first couple of books.
And then as I got older, in kindof elementary school and middle
school, as the books came out inthe 2000s and as I got older, I
started, you know, reading them on my own.
We would still read them aloud, actually as a family.
(04:44):
My parents would, and I would listen.
But I started reading ahead. And my mom was very impressed
with me that I did not spoil some of the later books and was
able to just kind of like, enjoyit as I went with my siblings.
I'm the oldest kid so my youngersiblings grew up with the books
as well. We actually would listen to.
(05:06):
We had all of the books on CD audio book at the time and as
the books got longer there were so many C DS per book.
We actually owned them all at one point.
So I grew up listening to the toJim Dale read the books for like
(05:28):
the US editions, Stephen Fry read the UK edition ones.
But I'm used to Jim Dale. And actually, as I'm recording
this, like two or three days ago, they just announced that
they're going to do a whole new Harry Potter audio books, like
cast or they're going to cast all the parts and have them all
(05:50):
record. So that will be coming soon,
which will be very cool. If you've ever listened to audio
books where there's like a full cast and they do like, like
background sounds and stuff likethat, instead of basically
having one person like read for everyone.
So that would be very cool as well.
But anyway, so yeah, I grew up reading all the books.
(06:14):
We listened to them. Very familiar, probably like
still top number one book seriesin my life.
I would say more about you know,me and my relation to the Harry
Potter series. I identify as a Slytherin.
(06:35):
My favorite book is Half Blood Print.
My favorite movie is Goblet of Fire, and I've been listening to
a podcast by Harry Potter Mugglecast.
Been a listener since 2006 and Mango Castle started in 2005
where you used to have to go online and like download the RSS
(06:56):
feed to you know, whatever device you could your computer
at the time. And then later I would download
it onto like my iPod touch I think to listen and stuff like
that. But anyway, the podcast has been
going now for 20 years. So very cool.
Again, I grew up basically listening to podcast and that
(07:20):
was part of why I was so excitedto start my own as well because
I love the Muggle Cast podcast. I'm still a listener, I am on
their Patreon and all sorts of things.
So and then my favorite character in the books is
probably Luna Lovegood. I said because I am also a
(07:41):
weirdo. I also love how direct and also
how open minded she is. I love how she connects to Harry
later in the books around grief.And yeah, I mean I love a lot of
the characters. I loved Hermione when I was
younger as well. It's very fun to see like a
bookish, you know, student girl get such.
(08:07):
Yeah to be featured. You know, she wasn't the main
character but in the top three there and have a lot of like
strong female characters, which is interesting as we go into the
rest of this episode. So JK Rowling wrote the books.
Her name is Joanne Rowling. The K is not even her middle
(08:27):
name. I believe it's her grandmother's
name, Kathleen, and she says that she used that name like JK
Rowling and the choice to use like initials only.
(08:48):
She sort of said different things over the years, but
basically because she, like, didn't want boys to not pick up
the book because it was written by a girl.
That's what I would say is like the gist of us, which again, is
all very interesting in the context of what we're talking
about today. So she is the author, Joanne.
(09:11):
She has written other series, but definitely Harry Potter's
the one she's most well known for.
She was beloved, I would say. And then I'd say the book series
is still very much beloved. The movies as well.
They're coming out with ATV series starting in I think will
be coming out in 2027. They're filming right now for
(09:36):
sort of this next generation of people to get to know Harry
Potter and she. JK Rowling yeah is a turf which
is a trans exclusionary radical feminist.
She self identifies this way. She has now been a very
(09:59):
staunched her for years. I believe really when she
started tweeting about things in2020 was when sort of like the
larger media and the fandom became sort of like couldn't
(10:22):
really ignore anymore her dislike of trans people.
Basically trans exclusionary radical feminist means she
doesn't believe trans women are women.
(10:42):
She likes to spell lots of stuffabout biological sex and studies
and things like that that are pseudoscience.
She has at this point has an entire, let me find the
(11:05):
basically like foundation or yeah, I guess it's called a fund
in the US. It would be like a almost like a
pack like PAC that funds politicians.
(11:26):
But yeah, anyway, so that started, or at least she was
sort of very open about it five years ago in 2020, she was
tweeting so many things, just sort of an onslaught of terrible
things. And now there's a lot,
(11:47):
especially in the UK of turfs like cozying up with members of
the alt right for power. So there's like a very, I mean,
in the UK and certainly here in the US, a huge political push
that would see trans people removed from access to
healthcare. That's definitely happening here
in the US It's kind of going state by state, but also our
(12:09):
current administration is definitely not in favor of
giving trans folks any sort of gender affirming care.
And also not just giving it, butlike also actively taking it
away. It's being, you know, trans
folks are being legally discriminated against,
marginalized, higher risk of assault, murder, suicide, and
(12:30):
all of that, even more so than they were five years ago.
And yeah, it came, I think in June that there was an
announcement to that JK Rowling had formed the JK Rowling
Woman's Fund, which will directly impact court cases
against transgender people. The cases would normally not be
(12:51):
deemed financially viable, or sothe cases themselves.
It's like she's basically supporting things where the case
normally wouldn't be viable. But she set up a fund
specifically to fund these cases.
And in the like press release that says individuals and
organizations that fund is designed to support include
(13:13):
individuals who are facing tribunals.
You know, sounds a lot like witch hunt because of their
expressed beliefs are being forced to comply with
unreasonable inclusion policies regarding single sex spaces.
Have issued legal challenges to legislation which it says takes
away the freedoms or protectionswomen's are entitled to or who
(13:35):
otherwise cannot afford to bringactions to court to defend
themselves. And basically she is solely
funding this fund. It is all coming out of her own
money and she has made billions off of the Harry Potter series
at this point by doing all the books and all the merch and all
(13:57):
the movies. And right, I mean, she's still
going to get money from the TV show.
She gets money from the HogwartsLegacy Harry Potter game, kind
of anything that is part of the intellectual property of Harry
Potter generally she gets some money from.
And this fund, like does not take donations.
(14:18):
It's like literally just her, right?
So we literally have like very clear evidence that like she is
personally funding this very scary, horrifying like onslaught
of trans people. She's doing it in the UK, but
because she is spouting her harmon X or Twitter as well, like
(14:45):
it's everywhere now and again. A lot of the fandom has in the
last five years really like broken away from her.
It's very much the idea of like,OK, John Green, the author talks
about that once a piece of art, like writing fiction is sort of
(15:06):
written by the author and then sent out into the world, it
becomes the property of the fandom or the readers, the
people that actually take it on and, you know, read it and do
things in their own lives based off of what they read and all
these things. And so that is definitely one
point of view you can take. Like, I definitely still, like I
(15:28):
said, I still identify as a Harry Potter fan.
I have played Hogwarts Legacy, the video game.
I will probably watch the Harry Potter TV show.
But I think as, like, individuals, they have to
decide, right? Like, where our own ethics are
around giving money to her, especially knowing that JK
Rowling is funding trans hatred legislatively and harm, not just
(15:54):
hatred, but like, actively taking away people's healthcare.
And she's a billionaire, so she has a lot of money to do it.
And she. Yeah, so there is all of that.
Where do I want to go from here?So yeah, that's sort of like
(16:15):
about her. Like I said, I listen to Mogul
Cast, the podcast about Harry Potter or a podcast about Harry
Potter that's been going on for 20 years now.
And they have done some episodesabout.
They did an episode in 2020 sortof right after all of the tweets
came out and the media was kind of publishing a lot of articles
(16:36):
about JK Rowling and her position on trans people or her
own beliefs that are factually incorrect about trans people.
So that in Mogo Cast episode 469, which was recorded or
posted in June 15th in 2020, they had an episode titled Why
(16:59):
JK Rowling is Wrong about Trans People.
So that was part of what I was referencing here.
And the podcast has helped me, Iwould say like figure out right,
my own ethics around this. Like some people when the
Hogwarts Legacy Harry Potter came game, Harry Potter game
(17:21):
came out, which is like an open world game, which the fandom has
really wanted for a long time, where you can just fly around
and explore. Like there is a plot line, but
you can just kind of be in the world as well.
It's also a very diverse game and a lot of great people worked
on it. It's just when people chose to,
OK, I'm not going to buy the game new because some of that,
(17:42):
you know, proceeds will go to JKRowling.
I'll buy it used. So I'm not, you know, directly
contributing to her pocketbook. And that way, right, there are
other things you can do. Some fans choose to right not
really identify as a Harry Potter fan at all anymore or or
(18:06):
a fan of her. I would say the fandom is pretty
strongly against her positionality.
The fandom is very diverse, the fandom is very queer and trans
friendly and also a lot of folksare LGBTQIA plus.
And it feels very ironic coming from a book series that was so
(18:32):
about inclusivity and the struggles, even in the wizarding
world, about, right, like, racism and hatred of other
people that aren't like themselves.
Like that we all grew up as fansreading the books, kind of
learning all these, like, values.
(18:54):
And now it feels very counterintuitive that JK Rowling
has chosen this sort of crusade against trans women in
particular, but sort of trans people overall, especially
around the healthcare aspect of it, and is very strongly.
(19:17):
She will not listen. She's no interest in being
swayed from what I can tell. And there's been sort of a lot
of, there's a podcast about it, like a particular series.
Oh yeah. That was called The Witch Trials
of JK Rowling that kind of talked about, they interviewed
(19:38):
JK Rowling herself about these topics.
And then also folks in the fandom and trans people.
I'm trying to remember when it came out.
There's kind of like a documentary series.
Yeah, Well, but yeah, so part ofalso why I'm doing this whole
(20:00):
Harry Potter season right now isbecause I'm going to Enchanticon
next week for me on. August 14th, Well, it starts on
the 15th in St. Louis, MO, which used to be
called Leakey Con, which was a Harry Potter specific
conference. I mean convention.
(20:22):
There were other sort of fandomsas well that were part of it,
but even they have sort of renamed the conference to be
about fantasy in general and to not even have in name a sort of
affiliation to the Harry Potter world or JK Rowling in
particular. Because yeah, the fandom is very
(20:44):
against her where she stands on this issue and how harmful she
is being to trans people. And so I wanted to make sure
that right as I do a whole season about Harry Potter and
deep diving into it, about divination and Tarot, which I'm
super excited to do that. I wanted to have an episode
(21:05):
about JK Rowling as well. Because I think it's important
to write be intentional about where we stand.
What would know what she the hatred she is spewing and the
causes and all these different things.
(21:25):
And again, like this has been going on since 2020 where she's
been very clear about it. I would say maybe I'll talk
about it more later in the in this season, but about maybe
signs that were in the Harry Potter books about some of her
hatred towards femininity even. It's very, I don't know, it's
(21:48):
kind of complex because so yeah,let's get into that a little bit
more. So also to kind of kick this off
recently, just like a week ago for me, I believe.
Yeah, it was July 31st, 2025. Jinx Monsoon had a clip on an
(22:14):
upcoming interview with Zewee where they were asked about
whether JK Rowling would make a good Roxy Hart in Chicago
because Jinx is going to play ona Broadway role.
And Jinx talked about, I can like read the whole quote, but
(22:36):
basically she says like, right, there's all this irony in that
JK Rowling like named herself like try to hide basically that
she was a woman or femininity, right in writing the books and
putting her name on the books asa sort of ambiguous like gender
neutral name on the books. And now she is so against trans
(23:02):
people living their lives and has so much hatred towards them
that it is, like, very. I don't know.
The irony is very clear. So.
Yeah. So Ziwe asks, you know, I'll
have the clip in the show notes if you want to watch the whole
thing. But yeah.
She asks, like, OK, you know, doyou think Jake here, Rolling
(23:24):
would make a good Roxy Hart in Chicago?
Jinx talks about who is Jake? Who is he?
Jake. Hey, Rolling.
Ziya points out. Oh, no.
Rolling says she. And Monsoon says, Oh, dear,
that's not a feminine name in the slightest.
Then she sort of like, you know,pretending to be confused, says,
oh, I know that sometimes femaleauthors use initials so that
(23:46):
people assume it's a male writer.
And then says, oh, I have to presume that JK Rowling was
unsatisfied with the way that the world saw her and then
transitioned herself and a new personality so the world would
perceive her the way she wants to be perceived, which I think
it is very true. And she continued to do so when
(24:06):
she went on and wrote another series after the Harry Potter
series, the Corman Strike crime series, she used another, like,
male pseudonym, Robert Galbraithto do so.
And she sort of says, like, oh, I wanted to like, distance
myself. I didn't want people to just buy
the books because of my famous name.
(24:28):
But again, very interesting thatshe chose to have a male
pseudonym, that one like much more clearly male than her
original like choice around using initials that, again, are
not even her initials. I don't think she has a middle
name. And so like, she sort of created
this persona again, as Jinx talks about, so that people
(24:52):
would like perceive her a certain way.
So we have that aspect and this sort of like dragging of JK
Rowling in this way where again,it's like the irony is very
clear around this, where she's OK with presenting or pretending
to be a man as long as it is serving her and her work.
(25:16):
And I don't know, selling more books or if she feels protected
by that, but she is not OK with any trans people basically
existing as themselves or havingany sort of transition or.
And she goes into again, all this spewing nonsense about
biological sex. And how can like, oh, that men
(25:37):
are going to pretend to be womento get into women's bathrooms?
And like all this nonsense wherewe know the data and research
says that trans people are the most likely to get assaulted in
bathrooms much more than says people, and that they are
(26:00):
actually the ones that are very at risk a lot of the time and
have a lot of violence committedagainst them and murder.
And so this is just like a totally unacceptable and
outright lie, right? That one that this that she
states these things. What else do I want to say on
(26:22):
this episode? I'll get into it a little more
in next episode where I talk about Hermione's perception of
divination and Professor Trelawney and you know by way of
that tarot in the books where we're going to talk about
femininity a bit more. But Jake and rolling also, if
you go through the books, like has a lot of as the author like
(26:47):
portrays a lot of characters with hatred towards people that
are hyper like like have this hyper femininity or just
femininity in general. So Muggle cast in an episode 634
analyzing the representation of women in Harry Potter.
(27:10):
And apologies, I'm searching in the transcript right now.
But anyway, they talked a lot about how, yeah, Hermione is
very judgmental of Professor Tolani and divination.
She hates the subject. She drops out and she's very
(27:32):
like, I don't know, just kind oflike has a lot of hatred about
it. She sees it as a, I would say,
like a pseudoscience. She doesn't really believe in
it. She thinks Professor Tolani is a
fake and a fraud and that this isn't a serious subject in
(27:54):
school, even though it is a required class for I think 3rd
through fifth years in the school.
And then for 6th year they get to opt into some of their
classes out of that. But everyone is required to take
divination early on. And, yeah, And so Hermione, that
(28:17):
JK Rowling speaks a lot about that Hermione is sort of like
herself in the books, that this was kind of the kind of kid she
was. She highly identifies with
Hermione. So it sounds like even JK
Rowling is very skeptical, I would say, of divination.
And right, tarot is a type of divination.
(28:39):
Again, I'll get a little bit more into that and as we go
throughout the season, but divination basically just means
divining the future. And there are different ways of
doing divination. Tarot is one of them.
And again, I'll talk a lot aboutdifferent kinds of divination as
we go throughout this season. And then we also have like later
(29:01):
in the books, we have Professor Umbridge, who again, is sort of
described as like a hyper femme,like wears only pink gloves,
cats. And it's supposed to be sort of
like this in contrast to her actual, I don't know, behavior.
But she has like JK really and clearly has a sort of like
(29:22):
demonizing girlishness. Like there's a lot of like women
hating women in the books. There's a lot of Hermione think
she's better than other people because again, like she goes
towards these much more serious subjects that she quote, UN
quote serious. And she doesn't really believe
(29:42):
in these ones that are more about intuition and less about
learning something from a book. Hermione is very book smart, but
I would say she's not necessarily super in touch with
her intuition, which is seen as a, like, feminine trait.
(30:03):
And what else? Yeah.
And there's just a lot of like, we have Lavender Brown later in
the books that Ron dates. She's gigglish and girly, and
she's seen as very, like, childish and naive and, like,
again, silly, like put down because she has this, like,
girlishness. She's like, into the romance.
(30:24):
Even with love potions and stuff.
They're very much belittled in the book series.
And then we actually see that they're very serious and very
intense and clearly, like, yeah,from reading the books, you
would think, wow, JK Rowling hates femininity and pink.
And sort of all of these, like, representations of pink in the
(30:48):
series are very negative. And then JK Rowling apparently
has also gone to said that, like, pink is her favorite
color. So there's this like, very like,
I don't know, like shadow side to the way that she says things.
And then also what she really feels like, I don't know, it
like there is this larger discussion, I would say about
(31:10):
like JK Rowling, like not wanting to identify as like
feminine again, or as this like hyper femme because it is seen
as like more silly or that womenshould be serious and be more
masculine and like men if they're going to be taken
seriously in the world. She really like feeds into that.
(31:33):
Like in the books, again, even Petunia Dursley, you know,
presents so it's very feminine, like the perfect 1950s
housewife. But then she's also like, I
don't know, you know, like then she's like very abusive and
awful. So we see that a lot of these,
like, hyper feminine characters or even just ones presenting
with any femininity are like, basically painted as evil or
(31:58):
silly or like more of Pervadi and Lavender in the books.
And there is this like, I don't know, it just really makes me
think like, does JK Rowling hatethis like feminine part of
herself? I think she has even said that
as a kid, like she wished she was a boy.
(32:19):
Wear a gun. I'm like, oh, like, girl, you
gotta work with your shadow sideof yourself instead of like so
outwardly hating, right? Or just not even believing that
trans people exist and that eventhough like, again, she can
clearly understand for herself that like it is hard to be a
(32:43):
woman in the world. She's been through a lot of like
she had JK Rowling has been through domestic violence.
That's a lot of what she was going through right before she
wrote the book series. She was had left a abusive
relationship with her young child, was very poor and was
(33:08):
trying to survive. And that was like part of this
part of herself that kind of like, came up with this idea for
the Harry Potter books. And yeah, it just seems like
there's a lot of fear around being perceived as feminine and
(33:30):
that there is power in that instead of the only power comes
from being masculine or being leaning into the power that is
given directly to men. Yeah.
It's just, I don't know, there's, there's a lot there I
(33:53):
would say. And I wish that she could work
with her right shadow part of self to be in touch with her
intuition and instead of, you know, spewing hatred for trans
people because she's afraid of men seemingly.
(34:17):
Like that's why she goes into all these tirades about
bathrooms and things like that. That like, again, I think if she
could like, work on her own trauma, perhaps like she could
better understand this like shadow side of herself that
actually, like, being feminine does not make you more actually
(34:46):
there's nothing wrong with beinga feminine that women are often
a target for violence by men, but that you can't just save
yourself from that by not presenting as feminine or
rejecting that part of yourself.That's not really how it works.
(35:10):
We have to fix the culture around violence and around
power. And right now, JK Rowling is
enacting so much power and violence from her position of
privilege. And again, instead of like
interrogating her own challengeswith that part of herself and
(35:34):
utilizing her great wealth and privilege to uplift marginalized
people and protect trans people and allow trans people to choose
the healthcare that they want that they know is best for
(35:55):
themselves and to not create a more abusive healthcare system
that is so focused on this like,quote UN quote biological aspect
of people. OK.
I think that's where we're goingto end that tirade from me.
(36:17):
And again, like I said, I'll getmore into this like femininity
aspect of JK Rowling and I link,I'll link all the Muggle cast
episodes. I'm referencing the card.
So I think for the season, I'm going to be picking cards that
are sort of like the vibe or a gun sort of this like shadow
(36:38):
side of what we're talking about.
So I pulled from the Sasser BitoTarot dock today by Sassia
Burrington and I pulled the Devil, the Tower, the 8 of Cups
and the world. Because this is really what I
see is sort of like the story ofthis situation of dealing with
(37:02):
this sort of like amazing, wonderful, magical like book
series that changed so many people's lives.
And that was such a great force of like encouraging children to
read and encouraging kids to understand diversity and the
power of diversity and includingother people and identifying
(37:27):
bullying and abuse behavior and showing like what, you know, can
happen when we transmute trauma into something good or like, you
know, try to like heal from it. And so, yeah, let's get into
that. So I picked the devil card
because at least in this duck, it basically just pick depicts
(37:51):
like a man, a very like shadowy dark hair, dark eyes, like man.
And again, the devil card is different throughout different
decks. And the devil card really isn't
usually about like a literal devil, but more about this idea
(38:12):
of like temptation. And I think the devil card here
very much represents like JQ Rowling has given into her
temptation to use her narrative that like of abuse and things
trauma that she went through andto like use that against people.
(38:36):
I think she has fallen into thislike seductive alt right
narrative that has of like, oh, if we just the only way to
protect yourself or protect against violence is to keep
trans people out of bathrooms, which is ridiculous.
(39:00):
But anyway, yeah. So in this card it says the
devil represents desire, earthlyneeds, lust and the attraction
of material pleasure, right. There's also a lot of material
pleasure going on for JK Rowling.
She lives in like basically likea massive castle house by
herself in Scotland. I believe living off of her
(39:25):
wealth, the devil is highly seductive.
The danger here is in giving into desire to the detriment of
your health, growth, and the impact on yourself and those you
love. And again, I think like the
fandom and the impact on the fandom has been kind of like
heartbreaking. Addiction and compulsive
behaviors are risks, risks of overindulgence.
(39:48):
The devil's temptation will appear as your great desires.
The devil is everything you want.
But in imbalance, the devil can lead to vice, weak will,
anxiety, depression, anger, doubt, pessimism and ignorance,
which I would say are all the things that I believe she is
going through right now. And on the flip side, fear of
the devil will result in being too controlled, calculated and
(40:10):
dispassionate, restricting you from possibility and any
pleasure. And I think Jakey Rolling has a
lot of fear again, like from herown, I would say history with
having been abused and controlled by others, in
particular men in her life, and she has sort of allowed that to
(40:35):
make her worldview very narrow. The next card I pulled was the
tower, which the tower comes right after the devil in the
major Arcana. If we think of sort of this as
like a story, the tower, right, is a often it's a violent card.
It's showing often a tree or a man made tower struck by
(40:56):
lightning. The event is catastrophic and
foundation shaking. And I think this is sort of like
what happened and to the fandom is like this.
So JK Rowling Wright presented herself and her ideas as the
devil. She doesn't see it that way, I
would say, but I do. And then there was this tower
moment in the world of like, oh,this beloved author that created
(41:19):
a gun, this like, amazing seriesand all these great things
really showed herself. And it like was this disaster,
sudden change, disruption, foundation shaking.
It could mean danger, crisis, chaos and hard times.
It may be uncomfortable. The tower suggests an explosive
transformation which can lead todisillusionment and an ego blow.
(41:42):
But this also offers up liberation from old structures
and revelation and freedom. The discomfort here comes from
reality not conforming to expectation, right?
Sometimes when we put people right on this pedestal of they
are perfection, they created this amazing series that did all
(42:02):
these great things right. The reality did not totally
conform to our expectation. We thought we learned things
from the book because of like her own value and belief system.
And I don't know if that's like true anymore or was even true at
the time. I think the sort of like
(42:22):
millennial generation like took from the books the things that
were probably the most helpful to us and the values that we
maybe already embodied, but saw play out in the certain way of,
again, inclusion and diversity. And it says you may need a new
approach to thinking about a problem.
(42:43):
And so this really right again, I would say shook the fandom.
Was this like a gun? Like if you think of lightning,
right, the sort of like shattering, splintering of
aspects of the fandom? Like people choosing to write
never really read or think aboutthe series ever again or to not
(43:04):
identify with it, to not participate in the fandom or to
kind of take back the fandom as our own and what we see it to be
and it's inclusionary nature andall the good things from the
books and not taking the hate shorten parts.
Then I pulled the 8 of cups, which the image for the 8 of
(43:26):
cups and this deck is someone that looks very they're like
naked. They look like they've been
through a lot and they're sort of like sitting down and leaning
their head over and they're likecutting off some of their hair.
I also just thought this was like an interesting imagery as
(43:46):
we talk about, again, like transition, trans people,
transformation. So the aid of cups is generally
about like exhaustion. I think of like grief,
disappointment and release. The card indicates feelings of
emotional exhaustion, burnt out,abandonment and withdrawal.
Which again, I think it's like alot of what people that love the
(44:07):
Harry Potter series felt when JKRowling kind of like revealed
this vitriol. It could mean the start of a
journey of discovery spurred by overextending yourself.
There may be a need to let go ofmaterial possessions to seek
deeper meaning. You might be giving too much,
not getting enough in return, feeling tired and listless.
(44:28):
It may be time to let go and abandoned A hopeless situation
or any old ideas that are dragging you down.
I find that in the past, in times of stress, I cut my hair.
I feel like I'm actually disposing of the past.
The extra weight, the dry ends, the old me, this is akin to
shedding your skin to make room for new growth, for reinvention
(44:48):
and a feeling of lightness. And then finally, I pulled the
world, which is the last card inthe Major Arcana.
Because I feel like this is kindof like this full circle, like
coming to the fandom, sort of recognizing, OK, like we can
take the parts we want. This series is now ours.
(45:14):
It's not hers anymore. We get to write fan fiction.
We get to have discussions and conventions about the things
that we value about the books and that have changed.
Our lives are the way that we see them.
And she doesn't get to decide anymore what is true and what
isn't. It says the world represents the
(45:34):
fulfillment and the successful completion of a cycle.
This card shows up when the world is ready for you and wants
what you have to offer. This is the last card in the
Major Arcana and as such signifies wholeness,
satisfaction and accomplishment,prosperity and contentedness.
And I think again, this is what like we as Harry Potter book
(45:55):
series fans had to find was like.
Where can we feel content with our own ethics and values if we
are going to participate in talking about the series and
again, having large national annual conventions about it.
How do we you know kind of like find find our way, you know and
(46:19):
what we ideal is satisfying and signifying wholeness and kind of
setting aside the parts. Maybe the people right that that
we may be used to like worship or put on a pedestal or that we
(46:40):
thought were kind of like the creators.
Like, yes, she had the idea. She right kind of created this
thing, I would say again out of her own situation and trauma and
created this fantastical world where there's like this endless
(47:01):
possibility. And now we get to play in the
world of endless possibility andwe don't have to write reverse.
This card's about being stuck incomfort zones, incomplete
projects, needing to finish whatyou start.
So it's about finding a gun likesatisfaction, contentedness in
where we stand in our ethics about the series and our
(47:22):
participation in it or our like giving of money to her or to the
brand of the wizarding world or anything like that.
All right, so let's this is a long episode.
These will probably all be long because I have a lot to say
about this, but let's go ahead and pull a card and see what the
(47:46):
message for today is that we need to learn, or anything else
that we can glean from this discussion.
I'm pulling from The Citadel, a fantasy Oracle by Fenn
Inkwright. This felt appropriate as a very
fantastical deck as we talk about this fantastical series
(48:13):
and this depiction of the Citadel gives Hogwarts vibes.
To be honest. On the back of the card there's
like a city that's depicted and it looks kind of like Hogwarts.
OK, I pulled the Enchanter, but I pulled it in reverse.
So it says it's about deception and trickery.
OK, let's see here. Pointing up.
(48:40):
OK, reversed. The Enchanter reverse addresses
the repairing of relationships after a deception comes to
light. Wow, how appropriate.
You or someone you know may havehad the truth of their deceit
revealed, willingly or not, losing them the trust of others.
Now is the chance to work together to reach a state of
reconciliation. And again, I think that that is
(49:01):
really where the fandom is at. I know I enjoyed going to Leaky
Khan last year in 2024 in Portland, OR and hearing all
these discussions about how to sort of take back the fandom as
our own. How to how we personally and as
(49:23):
a fandom, like interrogate theseaspects that are in the series
that are more challenging or that do sort of come up against
our values of diversity and inclusion.
And also just like the grief, right, of like the eight of cups
card of like that deceit being revealed, right?
I think it sort of felt like, oh, we read these books and I
(49:45):
thought I learned these things because again, the author was so
open minded and inclusionary andall these things.
And it's like, I'll come to findout like, no, maybe in some ways
and maybe for the time period itwas in, but now we're in this
place where like it has transcended what was depicted in
(50:07):
the books. And also just like we've moved
on as a culture, I would say. I guess not all of us have
because of our current politics,but and current administration.
But yeah, this is very interesting card to pull, right?
That being enchanter, the being enchanted and sort of thinking
(50:31):
that it's all one way and then feeling deceived and how that
makes us feel stupid instead of realizing that right, Like
abusers will deceive and manipulate to get what they want
and that really that's not our fault if we believed them.
(50:56):
Because we should be able to believe what people say if they
are being authentic instead of trying to suss out every person
in the world and their motives. All right, we'll end there for
now. In closing, if you'd like to
(51:17):
join me on the journey of using the Tarot for transformation,
you can click on the link in theshow notes to indicate your
interest. We'll be working together for 12
weeks of calls and journaling and lots more to discover what
happens when we want to transform our lives through the
tarot. Links for the tarot decks I
talked about always be in the show notes and on my website if
you'd like to look at them or purchase them.
(51:38):
And thanks for joining me today on Everyday Tarot.
Just as a reminder, the podcast will come out daily, Monday
through Friday for all of 2025. And you can e-mail me me at
camillesaunders.com with your thoughts, questions and more.
All right, see you soon. Bye bye.
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