May 20, 2024 • 35 mins
Don Cash was in college when he met his future wife, Elane. There was only one problem, she was already married. That didn't stop love from finding a way, but cancer was not as easily overcome. Their love story was cut tragically short, leaving Don to cherish the memories and battle the emptiness her absence left behind. Listen in as Don shares his unconventional love story with the ladies of Every Widow Thing.
This episode is brought to you by Roger Brooks and his team at Strategic Investment Management. As an Austin-based fiduciary financial advisory firm, Roger and his team bring decades of experience and empathy to help people regain financial control through life's ups and downs so you can move forward with confidence. www.strategicim.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is every widow thing. This episode is brought to you
in part by spiritpieces.com. Beautiful cremation jewelry and
glass art pieces for people and pets.
You can find their information on the Every Widow Thing
Instagram highlight reel. Today's episode is brought to
you by Rodger Brooks and his team at Strategic Investment
(00:22):
Management. As an Austin based fiduciary
financial advisory firm, Rodger and his team bring decades of
experience and empathy to help people regain financial control
through life's ups and downs so you can move forward with
confidence. Welcome back to every widow
thing. I'm Lacey and I'm here with
Kira, Whitney and Holly. And we have guests today.
(00:45):
Don and Katie Cash welcome. Welcome.
Thank you so much for doing thismorning.
Great to be here. It can be a lot of voices.
Yes. Coming at you.
I've heard it, yeah. He's promised not to talk over
you. Well, I don't know.
I don't know about. Whitney, That won't work very
often. See.
You've already lost it. So, well, I was going to tell a
(01:06):
little background on Don. I've recently met Katie.
They've been married for how many years now?
Just. Almost six six years.
Almost six years. OK, quite a while and Kira's
engaged, so I'm sure she'll havesome questions for you.
A little background. Don and I met about 13 years ago
(01:27):
or 12 1/2 years ago. His wife Elaine died around 8
months, I believe around the time Oliver died.
So today we wanted to talk a little bit about Elaine, your
late wife. Talk about your two kids, like
what happened during that time period, her illness, and then
post death. And then, as always in this
(01:50):
group, we talk about some fun things.
Like, I've heard Don's dating stories.
And thank God he found Katie because.
That's going to give hope to people with.
Katie heard these stories. Totally, I think so.
Let's start with Elaine. OK, Elaine and I were in college
(02:11):
together at the University of North Alabama.
I did my last two years there and I was in the broadcasting
English journalism major and shewas over in the art department
and so those things kind of commingle.
Through a mutual friend I met Elaine and her husband Randall.
(02:33):
They had been married for about 6 years at that point.
When I met them, got married right out of high school up
there. So we were friends and I knew
them and hung around with them and you know, broke laws.
With them. You know I.
(02:55):
Had a. You know, yeah.
'Cause the, you know, the art department guys, they were, they
were a lot of fun, so. I'm a design major, so I get it.
Yeah, I think that's that's How I Met her.
We actually got together my senior year.
She and Elaine and Randall were having a party at their
(03:16):
apartment up in the little old house, and we were drinking not
very good Scotch at that point. And Elaine and I were talking
and she said she thought maybe that she and Randall were going
to get her divorce. And I looked at her and I said,
(03:39):
well, if you do that, I think you and I should be together.
Wow, so you had that. You had that thought in your
head and was just keeping it quiet for quite a while, or it
came. It was just it just.
The sky came out the. Sky was the sky the.
Scotch had another. You know gay Scotch.
(04:00):
And no, I mean, we were. Friends, give that Scotch to
somebody that I want to be with.Yeah, well, ever find one?
Go with the single malt now. Single malt was also involved in
US us getting together. Well, there's there's a trend.
Yeah. But so yeah, it was just kind.
I mean, it was so off the top ofmy head and so unplanned because
we were friends. There was nothing other than
(04:22):
that. But I just went boom, you know,
'cause she was such a wonderful,nice person.
Next day I go back to the apartment.
Randall's off in class. And I said to Elaine, I said,
you know, do you remember what we talked about last night?
And she said, yes, I do. And I said, well, I'm serious.
(04:42):
And she said, OK, And this is right before Thanksgiving at
Christmas, I go home to Mississippi, and I'm sitting
down with my parents. And I said I I know the woman
that I'm going to get married to.
And I said, but she's currently married, so I'm just going to
distance myself, you know, as much as I can, which is very
(05:04):
difficult because we were all still living in the same town
and hanging out, and I was hanging out with Randall as
well. But he had no idea was.
It like with Randall, yeah. He he had no idea.
But I don't know, there was something just really weird
about the whole situation that he was constantly he was seeing
other girls and he was trying toget me to go and meet girls and
(05:27):
at that point I'm like, no, I'm fine.
But so she moved in. I think it was April 80.
We got married in May of 81 and November.
Yeah, in November of 81. We moved off to Utah for three
(05:48):
years, which was great. Separate from family, separate
from all that and together and Randall.
And I don't even get Randall. You.
Had your friendship established so you were already connected
that way. So we were friends and.
It just. I don't.
Know it just seemed it just. You.
Know. Oh, I love that story.
I do too. She was a photographer.
(06:10):
She finished her school at WeberState in Ogden, UT and got into
photography and worked at a newspaper there and did
something for Associated Press. So we were both in that same
kind of business together, so. And you have two.
Two daughters. Caitlin is 34.
(06:35):
It's hard because we're 34 too, so it gets, yeah.
So yeah, it does. Yeah, OK.
She's 34, lives here in Austin, has the kinship milk tea
business that we see here on thetable or here on the table.
So she's trying to make a business go.
(06:56):
I've been going a couple years and my other daughter, Anna is
29 and she is halfway through law school at Saint Mary's in
San Antonio. Wow.
Nice. Wonderful.
Proud dad over here, I think. So tell us a little bit about
(07:18):
what happened when your wife became I'll.
OK, 2008 she was diagnosed with breast cancer and I can figure
the year 'cause it was Caitlin'sfreshman year at UT.
So breast cancer diagnosed had alumpectomy, did the chemo.
(07:43):
We opted for the radiation, which you know 4% chance that
the radiation will cause other issues.
Later we decided 4% chance is nothing.
So that went for basically two years.
So October 2010, the oncologist,hey, you're good.
You're clear. Everything's good, you're
(08:04):
wonderful, great. In November, she started getting
tired, just kind of lethargic. December even tireder.
Facebook was new then. We usually do a bonfire on New
Year's Eve at the house and invite a few people over and
drink Scotch. And I remember doing this post
(08:27):
of well, sorry, last minute we're not going to do a bonfire
this year. Elaine is near death.
Oh my. God and.
Yeah. So anyways, it was, you know,
just being a smart ass, you know?
Oh, she's really feeling bad. She's very unlike, but you meant
so everybody knows. So, you know, that thing kind of
(08:48):
comes back once in a while. But she went to the doctor, had
something in her mouth, went to a dentist in January, then she
goes to an eye, your nose and throat.
Not ever thinking that it's cancer related in any way.
You. Go back to the oncologist.
No, she's kind of. Making the round.
She finally on a Monday said, I'm going to the oncologist.
(09:10):
She went back to our oncologist,they did blood work, sent her
right across the street to SaintDavid's, South to the emergency
room and she was there for one month, so and.
Where were your daughters at this time?
Caitlin, at that time was a junior at UT, so Lane goes
(09:31):
Monday to the oncologist, to thehospital.
We're going to run a bunch of tests on Tuesday.
Caitlin is supposed to leave fora study abroad in Paris for six
months. Right.
So And you think Elaine and I talked, you know, well, no, this
(09:51):
is the only chance you'll get tolive.
Abroad, yeah. As a parent, you're like, no,
don't stop your life. You need to go and do this.
I don't want to be any concern to you.
This is exactly where my oldest is right now.
She's a junior at UT and she's studying in Barcelona.
So that really. It's home.
It's home for me. So anyways, I take Caitlin to
the airport on Tuesday. I drop her off.
(10:13):
I'm headed back to the hospital.Elaine calls and said you come
to the hospital now I go, it's leukemia.
So we talked to the doctors and whichever kind it was is the
statistically the most curable kind of leukemia.
And what stage is it? Or do they tell you?
I don't know, the bad stage. Every stage is not good.
(10:36):
Yeah. I don't know but.
Was that caused by the radiation, they think or they
don't know? They don't really know.
I mean it's, you know, medicine is, I've learned is an inexact
science, you know. So we discussed what to do with
Caitlin, and we decided we couldintercept her at the airport in
(10:57):
Washington and tell her to come home or you beat cancer, You'll
beat this. Let her go.
So she goes to Paris. And at that point, I sent her an
e-mail. You know, You know, your mother
has leukemia. Don't worry about it.
(11:18):
It's going to all be good, you know?
And I've still got the e-mail she sent back to me, you know,
You know, thanks for starting mytrip off.
Great. You know, like, I don't know
what to do. So that was a decision that you
know, of course, I have regretted many times over, you
(11:39):
know? But allowing her to go or?
Sending her, sending her and andshe and I have talked about it
any number of times and she said.
That would have done the same thing I.
Think they have to know. Like my dad tried to keep
something from me one time when my mother was only 52 and I out.
If something had happened to her, and I didn't know, I would
have. So I think you made the right
decision all. Around every decision that you
(12:01):
made was thought out and really trying to do what was best.
And that's the thing, with the hindsight, it could have gone
the other way and then you know.And then she would be angry at
you because you wrecked her, right?
Yeah, it's. A no win.
I hate to hear that you still have guilt, though, because your
(12:23):
heart was in the right place theentire time.
But you know, you, you, you makethe best decision you can based
on the information you have. And that's what I always say.
I made the best decision I couldat the time, maybe wasn't the
right one. Since then, you didn't have.
A lot of time, either. It's not like you had a lot of
time to think. Well, since then, you know, you
think that's going to be your only chance to to live abroad.
(12:45):
She wanted to do that. She studied French in college
and you know well since then shehas, you know, did the six
months there she came back, graduated, taught English in
France for six months, taught English and Thailand for six
months. Hence the Thai milk tea.
Travelled to Vietnam, Cambodia, blah blah.
This place on her own. But that Paris trip kicked it
(13:08):
off. So it's like I'm a firm believer
that that God's timing is perfect.
As much as we wish things were different, or that maybe it
would have been better with thisor that, this is what happened
and that is what what happened. And it was supposed to happen
that way. So what did happen 'cause we've.
Gone off. It gets worse.
(13:29):
OK, so so a weekend of this thing with Elaine.
I knew that it was not good. Her sisters had come down from
Alabama and she was asking, is this my time?
Am I done? Is this?
And I was like, no, no, no. But a week into it I could see.
I mean, she immediately started down the hill and it was pretty
(13:50):
rapid. And and I think in my mind it
was a reaction to some of some of the drugs that didn't, you
know, didn't sit well with her. So a week and 1/2 or maybe two
weeks in, they put her in this crazy ass bed.
They knocked her out. You know, whatever she was in
that was kind of, you know, essentially all she wrote at one
(14:13):
point, 2 1/2 weeks in or so, everything was just crashing.
She's probably not going to makeit through the night.
Anne and I are in the hospital and a singing tour and, you
know, a few people are coming by.
I call Caitlin. I say you need to come home
right now, Catches a flight, comes home.
(14:33):
By the time she gets back to Austin, things are on the
upswing, You know, the oxygen islooking better, blah blah, blah.
Of course her mother is is sedated and out and so she
doesn't get to talk to her. But we did talk, talk, talk,
talk to you. And so she stayed about a week
and sent her back to Paris. And then some short number of
(14:57):
days later, I had to call her and tell her your mother died.
You need to come home again. So that's the worst.
And like you said you were listening to Lacey's story and
that that part where she has to tell writer that is a
heartbreaking part of all of ourstories and anyone listening
who's a widower, widower with children, having to tell them
that is. And then you weren't there with
(15:21):
her. Oh yeah, that's very difficult.
But Anna and I were at the hospital.
The hospital called. I had gone with a friend to get
out of the hospital, going to the Continental Club to hear a
little bit of music. I get out my phone.
It's like all these messages from the hospital, I call, they
say you need to come here now, this is on a Thursday.
And actually that Thursday. I had arranged to meet with all
(15:45):
the doctors on Friday morning because I said, you know, this
is, I could see the writing was on the wall.
It wasn't going well and I was ready to, you know.
Pull the plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, and and because it it just wasn't.
She wasn't going to come out of this and I knew it at that
point. So I had a meeting arranged the
(16:06):
next morning with the doctors. Thursday night they called come
to the hospital. I called Anna, her boyfriend at
the time, brought her to the hospital and you know, we OK.
Sorry, it's OK. Don, never apologize.
That's right. We don't apologize for this.
(16:26):
Is the love, I mean, exactly. And the trauma of it all.
Yeah. You know guys, it's OK to do
this, of course. We had.
We wish they would. It would be a lot healthier.
Anna and I were there. We we told her goodbye.
They flipped the switch and and our lives went to completely the
(16:47):
shit I, you know, it's it's it'sa you think the birth of your
child is the most powerful thingbut being with somebody when
they die, it's just it's phenomenal.
I mean it's, I mean, we're all gonna die.
But being with someone that you know and that you love is just,
(17:10):
you know, it's it's something I wouldn't have done any other
way. We will be right back.
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acknowledging your grief and taking the time to listen,
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honors your past while embracingyour future.
(17:32):
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For more information, visit www.strategicim.com or give them
a call at 512-341-9898. Again, that's 512-341-9898.
(17:55):
Tell them you heard about them on every widow thing.
We recently had a podcast about our husband's ashes.
Sadly, Kira still can't get intothe box, can you?
We have. To get in the box.
I'm working on. I'm working on the box.
The whole point is you want to be able to do something with
those ashes. I came across a great website,
itscalledspiritpieces.com, and what I love about it is that
(18:17):
they give you a variety of options.
It's jewelry, it's glass art, it's statues.
You can do a ton of stuff with ashes, and we all have quite a
few ashes. There's a lot in the box, yeah.
There is a lot in the box. I like the paperweight idea.
Doesn't spiritpieces.com have paperweight?
(18:37):
Yes. And you know what's so great?
And there's one that I'm actually going to order, It's
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But what I love about the glass art is that they have like,
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So if you're interested, if thisis something that you would like
for your own loved one, spiritpieces.com/every widow
(19:01):
thing so they know that you heard about it through US, is a
great option for for you and foryour loved one.
We hope you check it out. And now back to the show.
Did you Did Elaine have any timeit all happened so quickly
before she was unconscious? Was there any discussion around
(19:21):
this? Could be it?
Were you just telling her you loved her or did she know?
Other other than her, you know, four or five days into it saying
is it, is it my time is, is thisit?
And I'm like, no, no 'cause you're trying.
To stay positive anyway, that's 'cause that's a lot of the time.
It's part of the fighting journey for people that are ill
(19:43):
and you want to give them that last bit of strength that
they're going to be able to turnit around.
But it was also about that time that when it was, I'm thinking
this is not going well. You know this this could be this
could be bad. Did you and your girls seek out
any therapy in the wake of of the loss?
And I know that was a big part of healing for many of us.
(20:06):
I know it's important for the kids, but it's hard.
It's different ages. To get your children on board
with that kind of thing. We did.
We had actually done a little bit of therapy some odd number
of years ago. We went in for kind of one of my
children and the whole family goes and I was the one that
ended up going back. So, you know, I had a little
(20:28):
experience with it and and so yes, we did.
We found a woman therapist. We went one time and all we
heard from her was, you know, whenever we were discussing
things, all we heard from her was, how does that make you
feel? How does that make you feel?
And we walked out of there and we looked at each other and
(20:49):
went, well, we're not going backto see her and because.
She should know. We feel like garbage.
Yeah, that's how that feels. And that was it.
Anne and I did do some. Maybe a year later she and I
went together to to someone, butCaitlin was still, you know, she
(21:11):
did her. She finished her six months in
in France and. Probably exactly what she needed
at that time. Maybe.
For certain age kids, you. You never know.
What Sometimes they need a little escape.
Some little ones have to dip in and dip out.
They can't. Well, we've discussed and she,
you know, obviously, she said. You know, you and Anna were
(21:34):
there together going through this, and I was across the.
Right. Reef is very isolating anyway,
and she may have felt even more separate.
And I just imagine that your brain is so mean, you know, your
brain can be so mean to yourselfand not give yourself any grace.
(21:55):
And she probably was struggling with guilt for not being there
and. Anger.
Yeah, and it's a lot of. Mom, Sister, world, and.
That really is that is the one emotion.
That I'm always. Talking about is.
Anger. Anger.
That anger because. When I met you, I think that was
(22:16):
why Adam and and Wendy wanted usto meet so.
But I'm glad because didn't you end up doing a a grief group?
That's how you met Zephyr, our friends.
Well, you're the one who told meabout this grief group.
Yeah, this is 2 1/2 years after Elaine died, 'cause I'm like,
I'm just going to worry about the kids.
I want them to be fine. I want them to get over this.
(22:38):
And, you know, Needless to say or, you know, boy, we struggled.
I mean, it was, it was it was brutal.
It was absolutely brutal. So many details.
I I don't even remember Anne andI was still in the house.
But, you know, it's in my mind. I hardly remember that.
And I certainly wasn't doing anyparenting.
And she's 16. She's 16 at the time, so a
(23:01):
sophomore or junior? Something like that.
And so would you say that you kind of retreated or you like
what? What were you?
What were you doing during that time that makes you feel like
you weren't really parenting? I just.
We had a full time job. Yeah, well, you know, I had a
job and and then it was like, no, you're going to have to
(23:22):
figure this out. You're going to have to learn
stuff on your own. I don't have the energy.
I don't have the brain power. I'm mad.
I am so mad. I mean, I'm surprised people at
work didn't just beat me up all the time because I was so mad at
people and so hostile. And I did a lot of apologizing,
though I am not afraid to apologize.
(23:44):
And I I've gotten pretty good atit because I have to do it a
lot. But anger was just, you know,
just, you know, and. Takes over again.
We appreciate. You acknowledging that because I
think that's the one emotion that is the most difficult to
deal with. You can help people who are
(24:05):
crying. You feel like you can hug them.
But when people are angry and that is a natural side effect of
grief and it's not. Very sympathized with.
You know everyone expects you tobe sad, you know, and go in a
room and cry and sit in the dark.
But they don't expect some of the irritation and frustration
and the short fuse and the lack of capacity for trivial things.
(24:29):
Date that other people you know silly things are going on in
other people's lives and you just have no bandwidth for.
Exactly. Anna, you know, two months after
Elaine died, Anna said. You know, all my friends have
gone back to doing what they do and I'm still sad.
And I said, well, you know, one thing you learn is the world
continues to go around. Your world stops, but the world
(24:52):
continues to go around. And that's the way it should be.
Everybody's there for the first month.
And I always tell people, several other people I know that
have lost their spouse in the last, you know, three or four
years is everybody's there for the first month or two bringing
food, we're calling. I said go back in six months and
see how they're doing. Go back year to.
(25:15):
Year, yeah. Go back in 13 years.
When something big happens when your child graduates and goes to
college. Is.
It going, you know? Six months, six months in, I
called one of the teachers from Malayan School and said, could
you get some people to, like, make some meals for me?
I mean, I'm not even cooking at this point.
(25:36):
I'm not doing, you know, in six months in and you get a lot of
people. One thing you learn in, you
know, grief counseling is like, you hear all this.
Oh, my friends are like, well, it's been six months, You should
be over this and. We hate the word over, but
there's no getting over. It's.
It's getting through. And hopefully you find a way to
(25:58):
to do it in a healthy way, whichyou did end up doing.
I mean, so because I saw the lights come on, I did.
I remember meeting you and I waslike, Oh my, we're both 2.
Two people that are swimming in grief.
That was really kind of comical.And then we went to a couple of
parties that Zephyr and some other people were that.
It was nice because they were this.
(26:18):
That was my first introduction to a group of people because I
went to the grief group, the onethat I told you about.
I hated it because the the olderlady, much older lady said you
can find somebody else. And I have said it, don't ever
say that again. And I'm leaving and I left and I
never went back. So I did the one-on-one and then
(26:39):
I found you guys. But we could only dip in and out
because I was Ryder was so little.
I was still just having to do the basic things but.
Like Don said, like I know I was.
I was all about my kids. Right.
I was, I came. I was the last person that I was
taking care of because it was just I had three little kids and
they'd lost their dad and I all I.
(27:00):
Did. I'm worried about this.
That's all I did for a long time.
And you're exhausted. Creeps up on you later when
you're like, oh wait, I finally did have a therapist That said,
you know you never grieved, right?
I feel like some, in some ways Istill haven't grieved fully and
I'm six years in before we go into the happier moments when
(27:21):
you meet Katie and we're dying to hear about that.
And then Katie, we want to know all about what is married to a
widower, because that's a whole.That could take two hours.
Don. What?
Especially with Don, just so we right.
We have, we have, we have widowers who listen in and I
actually know one in particular who's just now five months in.
(27:44):
He has a nine year old daughter.What advice would you give to
yourself back then? Like, what would you want to
tell yourself back then when, asyou say, everything had gone to
shit? And this is one thing that I've
I've learned when I met Lacey and she had mentioned this, the
(28:06):
grief counseling. And OK, 2 1/2 years in I go.
It's like 10 people met Zephyr. Zephyr, like half my age.
But just a a great a great person.
I like his name. Yeah, darling.
And so you meet these people andyou find that you have all this
things, same thing in common. And one lady came in, had been
(28:31):
six years since her husband died.
One lady came in, had been two weeks since her husband died.
Right. And I'm keeping my, you know,
one of them's keeping, you know,the son is five and keeping the
husband's suits And you know, I got, I mean I had a yard sale
really quick. I, you know whatever you're
doing in when your spouse dies, whatever you're doing, however
(28:57):
you're handling it is OK You know, I I you always say well,
you you don't really have a choice.
You have to get strong. Well you do have a choice.
You can go down the hill and youcan become an alcoholic and you
can do what not OK that's not a good choice.
But whatever you're doing is normal.
(29:18):
And everybody's going to do it different.
People are going to keep some stuff around and people are
going to get rid of spouses stuff and people are going to
start some therapy, you know, two weeks in and some are going
to be like me and wait 2 1/2 years and some are going to be
6. And also, one thing I learned is
(29:40):
you do what you want to do. Friends would call and go, hey,
we're going to go here. We're going to go have dinner.
We're going to go to a bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then I call them 1/2 hour before go, not going.
And they're like, well, why not?I don't.
I don't want to, yeah. I can't handle it.
I just don't feel like it. So you do whatever you think you
need to do, and at some point you know things.
(30:07):
Things start back up at some point.
That's really good advice. It really.
Is it is good advice. So tell us a little bit more
about the grieve group really quickly, just because I know I
never was able to found find one.
But then again, I didn't have a lot of free time because I had
the three kids and have no family in the area.
And then I met her, and then her, and then her, and then that
(30:28):
became, and I felt the same thatyou were describing with your
grief group. I finally was with people that
got it. And that's why we're here today,
because. We all did everything.
Overwhelming, joyful feeling to have people that understood me.
Well, I I having your spouse that I puts you in a little
fraternity that you don't want to be in and all of a sudden and
(30:51):
and you do and you meet other people and you can really
empathize with them. You can my friends help me out
so much. But this grief group, like I
said, you didn't. It wasn't your thing.
And I went and immediately was like, OK, this is OK this is
where I need to be. And I did it, I think for about
(31:13):
a year. I don't really remember.
And at some point I'm like, OK, I'm I'm OK with this.
But just being in there and having other people, you know,
that old proverbial safe space or whatever is, they're in the
same boat. And you realize there's a lot of
people in the same boat that you're in and you're not.
You're absolutely not alone. How did you find it?
(31:36):
Was it like a Facebook thing or how did you find it?
Well, it was. I think that used.
To hurt my healing place. And then it's now the grief,
grief, grief and Center for grief and loss.
OK, you came on and got this great group of people that were
kind of fun and cool, 'cause I met them through you and I
thought. Well, Zephyr were.
Zephyr and Zephyr. Younger, Super.
(31:57):
Cute, I think for me it was, yeah, the widow.
I was 42. It was like finding.
I couldn't find anyone that was under 65 or whatever to hang out
with. Like it was just hard to chart,
you know, hard to find young. Is that a problem?
Young window widows. Back then, but I.
I was in it with small. I mean, one of my kids was four.
I was in it with small kids. So it's just a different time.
(32:21):
And then some of the groups, that group I don't think was
around or at least I'd never found it.
And some of the groups were verycancer related, which would have
been great for you, but ours wassudden death.
So it was just kind of a different, not the same journey.
You go in and they do like an intake, right.
They talk, they did a little interview with you and like OK,
this group and they have this group and that group and whether
it's you know, different. However, your loss was
(32:45):
experienced and you, you know, like we think you, we think
you'll be good, you know? You know, men are told to buck
up, be a man, handle it. And so hearing that you actually
went and and found a group that's I think that's so
important. Men, men, Don't you know that's
why we have bartenders, right? You know.
(33:06):
Or friends. And I don't really have a
bartender here in town, but I have friends.
And there comes a point where I'm thinking, wow, they're tired
of hearing this. They've got to be tired of
hearing. Right.
That's it. I think we've all thought that
before. I do want real quick.
We talk about the Friends thing.A couple years in or, I don't
know, three or four years and I don't know a group of friends
(33:30):
and I, we started riding bikes. We'd go over the East Side
Sunday morning, 9:00. We would ride bikes around, you
know, nice and flat 18 miles, and we'd go someplace like
Cisco's and have, you know, breakfast tacos and everything.
And I remember riding my bike with this group of friends and
all of a sudden it hit me that Iwasn't thinking about lane and
(33:53):
death and how horrible things were.
I was out with friends and I wasgetting exercise and I was doing
stuff. And just the fact that you
realized that, wow, you, I'm notthinking about this 24 hours a
day. I'm thinking about 20-3 hours a
day. But you know, and so I had
these, this group of friends that were that were there for me
(34:16):
and stayed with me and listened to me tell the story 125 times.
And later on some of these friends, when they were having
issues in their life, they wouldcall up and go, hey, can I come
sit at the bonfire and have a beer?
And so I realized that wow, I'm,you know, these people help me
(34:40):
and now I'm able to listen to you and help you out and so and
that happened on several occasions and and and so you
know friendship and your friends, your good ones will
hang with you. But it says a lot about you too,
Don. I think we talk about, oh, they
have such great friends. Well, it speaks to you as a
person too, if you have those. That's what I hear.
(35:03):
I'm super fun. I'm really great.
Are you enjoying the Every WidowThing episodes?
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(00:22):
Management. As an Austin based fiduciary
financial advisory firm, Rodger and his team bring decades of
experience and empathy to help people regain financial control
through life's ups and downs so you can move forward with
confidence. Welcome back to every widow
thing. I'm Lacey and I'm here with
Kira, Whitney and Holly. And we have guests today.
(00:45):
Don and Katie Cash welcome. Welcome.
Thank you so much for doing thismorning.
Great to be here. It can be a lot of voices.
Yes. Coming at you.
I've heard it, yeah. He's promised not to talk over
you. Well, I don't know.
I don't know about. Whitney, That won't work very
often. See.
You've already lost it. So, well, I was going to tell a
(01:06):
little background on Don. I've recently met Katie.
They've been married for how many years now?
Just. Almost six six years.
Almost six years. OK, quite a while and Kira's
engaged, so I'm sure she'll havesome questions for you.
A little background. Don and I met about 13 years ago
(01:27):
or 12 1/2 years ago. His wife Elaine died around 8
months, I believe around the time Oliver died.
So today we wanted to talk a little bit about Elaine, your
late wife. Talk about your two kids, like
what happened during that time period, her illness, and then
post death. And then, as always in this
(01:50):
group, we talk about some fun things.
Like, I've heard Don's dating stories.
And thank God he found Katie because.
That's going to give hope to people with.
Katie heard these stories. Totally, I think so.
Let's start with Elaine. OK, Elaine and I were in college
(02:11):
together at the University of North Alabama.
I did my last two years there and I was in the broadcasting
English journalism major and shewas over in the art department
and so those things kind of commingle.
Through a mutual friend I met Elaine and her husband Randall.
(02:33):
They had been married for about 6 years at that point.
When I met them, got married right out of high school up
there. So we were friends and I knew
them and hung around with them and you know, broke laws.
With them. You know I.
(02:55):
Had a. You know, yeah.
'Cause the, you know, the art department guys, they were, they
were a lot of fun, so. I'm a design major, so I get it.
Yeah, I think that's that's How I Met her.
We actually got together my senior year.
She and Elaine and Randall were having a party at their
(03:16):
apartment up in the little old house, and we were drinking not
very good Scotch at that point. And Elaine and I were talking
and she said she thought maybe that she and Randall were going
to get her divorce. And I looked at her and I said,
(03:39):
well, if you do that, I think you and I should be together.
Wow, so you had that. You had that thought in your
head and was just keeping it quiet for quite a while, or it
came. It was just it just.
The sky came out the. Sky was the sky the.
Scotch had another. You know gay Scotch.
(04:00):
And no, I mean, we were. Friends, give that Scotch to
somebody that I want to be with.Yeah, well, ever find one?
Go with the single malt now. Single malt was also involved in
US us getting together. Well, there's there's a trend.
Yeah. But so yeah, it was just kind.
I mean, it was so off the top ofmy head and so unplanned because
we were friends. There was nothing other than
(04:22):
that. But I just went boom, you know,
'cause she was such a wonderful,nice person.
Next day I go back to the apartment.
Randall's off in class. And I said to Elaine, I said,
you know, do you remember what we talked about last night?
And she said, yes, I do. And I said, well, I'm serious.
(04:42):
And she said, OK, And this is right before Thanksgiving at
Christmas, I go home to Mississippi, and I'm sitting
down with my parents. And I said I I know the woman
that I'm going to get married to.
And I said, but she's currently married, so I'm just going to
distance myself, you know, as much as I can, which is very
(05:04):
difficult because we were all still living in the same town
and hanging out, and I was hanging out with Randall as
well. But he had no idea was.
It like with Randall, yeah. He he had no idea.
But I don't know, there was something just really weird
about the whole situation that he was constantly he was seeing
other girls and he was trying toget me to go and meet girls and
(05:27):
at that point I'm like, no, I'm fine.
But so she moved in. I think it was April 80.
We got married in May of 81 and November.
Yeah, in November of 81. We moved off to Utah for three
(05:48):
years, which was great. Separate from family, separate
from all that and together and Randall.
And I don't even get Randall. You.
Had your friendship established so you were already connected
that way. So we were friends and.
It just. I don't.
Know it just seemed it just. You.
Know. Oh, I love that story.
I do too. She was a photographer.
(06:10):
She finished her school at WeberState in Ogden, UT and got into
photography and worked at a newspaper there and did
something for Associated Press. So we were both in that same
kind of business together, so. And you have two.
Two daughters. Caitlin is 34.
(06:35):
It's hard because we're 34 too, so it gets, yeah.
So yeah, it does. Yeah, OK.
She's 34, lives here in Austin, has the kinship milk tea
business that we see here on thetable or here on the table.
So she's trying to make a business go.
(06:56):
I've been going a couple years and my other daughter, Anna is
29 and she is halfway through law school at Saint Mary's in
San Antonio. Wow.
Nice. Wonderful.
Proud dad over here, I think. So tell us a little bit about
(07:18):
what happened when your wife became I'll.
OK, 2008 she was diagnosed with breast cancer and I can figure
the year 'cause it was Caitlin'sfreshman year at UT.
So breast cancer diagnosed had alumpectomy, did the chemo.
(07:43):
We opted for the radiation, which you know 4% chance that
the radiation will cause other issues.
Later we decided 4% chance is nothing.
So that went for basically two years.
So October 2010, the oncologist,hey, you're good.
You're clear. Everything's good, you're
(08:04):
wonderful, great. In November, she started getting
tired, just kind of lethargic. December even tireder.
Facebook was new then. We usually do a bonfire on New
Year's Eve at the house and invite a few people over and
drink Scotch. And I remember doing this post
(08:27):
of well, sorry, last minute we're not going to do a bonfire
this year. Elaine is near death.
Oh my. God and.
Yeah. So anyways, it was, you know,
just being a smart ass, you know?
Oh, she's really feeling bad. She's very unlike, but you meant
so everybody knows. So, you know, that thing kind of
(08:48):
comes back once in a while. But she went to the doctor, had
something in her mouth, went to a dentist in January, then she
goes to an eye, your nose and throat.
Not ever thinking that it's cancer related in any way.
You. Go back to the oncologist.
No, she's kind of. Making the round.
She finally on a Monday said, I'm going to the oncologist.
(09:10):
She went back to our oncologist,they did blood work, sent her
right across the street to SaintDavid's, South to the emergency
room and she was there for one month, so and.
Where were your daughters at this time?
Caitlin, at that time was a junior at UT, so Lane goes
(09:31):
Monday to the oncologist, to thehospital.
We're going to run a bunch of tests on Tuesday.
Caitlin is supposed to leave fora study abroad in Paris for six
months. Right.
So And you think Elaine and I talked, you know, well, no, this
(09:51):
is the only chance you'll get tolive.
Abroad, yeah. As a parent, you're like, no,
don't stop your life. You need to go and do this.
I don't want to be any concern to you.
This is exactly where my oldest is right now.
She's a junior at UT and she's studying in Barcelona.
So that really. It's home.
It's home for me. So anyways, I take Caitlin to
the airport on Tuesday. I drop her off.
(10:13):
I'm headed back to the hospital.Elaine calls and said you come
to the hospital now I go, it's leukemia.
So we talked to the doctors and whichever kind it was is the
statistically the most curable kind of leukemia.
And what stage is it? Or do they tell you?
I don't know, the bad stage. Every stage is not good.
(10:36):
Yeah. I don't know but.
Was that caused by the radiation, they think or they
don't know? They don't really know.
I mean it's, you know, medicine is, I've learned is an inexact
science, you know. So we discussed what to do with
Caitlin, and we decided we couldintercept her at the airport in
(10:57):
Washington and tell her to come home or you beat cancer, You'll
beat this. Let her go.
So she goes to Paris. And at that point, I sent her an
e-mail. You know, You know, your mother
has leukemia. Don't worry about it.
(11:18):
It's going to all be good, you know?
And I've still got the e-mail she sent back to me, you know,
You know, thanks for starting mytrip off.
Great. You know, like, I don't know
what to do. So that was a decision that you
know, of course, I have regretted many times over, you
(11:39):
know? But allowing her to go or?
Sending her, sending her and andshe and I have talked about it
any number of times and she said.
That would have done the same thing I.
Think they have to know. Like my dad tried to keep
something from me one time when my mother was only 52 and I out.
If something had happened to her, and I didn't know, I would
have. So I think you made the right
decision all. Around every decision that you
(12:01):
made was thought out and really trying to do what was best.
And that's the thing, with the hindsight, it could have gone
the other way and then you know.And then she would be angry at
you because you wrecked her, right?
Yeah, it's. A no win.
I hate to hear that you still have guilt, though, because your
(12:23):
heart was in the right place theentire time.
But you know, you, you, you makethe best decision you can based
on the information you have. And that's what I always say.
I made the best decision I couldat the time, maybe wasn't the
right one. Since then, you didn't have.
A lot of time, either. It's not like you had a lot of
time to think. Well, since then, you know, you
think that's going to be your only chance to to live abroad.
(12:45):
She wanted to do that. She studied French in college
and you know well since then shehas, you know, did the six
months there she came back, graduated, taught English in
France for six months, taught English and Thailand for six
months. Hence the Thai milk tea.
Travelled to Vietnam, Cambodia, blah blah.
This place on her own. But that Paris trip kicked it
(13:08):
off. So it's like I'm a firm believer
that that God's timing is perfect.
As much as we wish things were different, or that maybe it
would have been better with thisor that, this is what happened
and that is what what happened. And it was supposed to happen
that way. So what did happen 'cause we've.
Gone off. It gets worse.
(13:29):
OK, so so a weekend of this thing with Elaine.
I knew that it was not good. Her sisters had come down from
Alabama and she was asking, is this my time?
Am I done? Is this?
And I was like, no, no, no. But a week into it I could see.
I mean, she immediately started down the hill and it was pretty
(13:50):
rapid. And and I think in my mind it
was a reaction to some of some of the drugs that didn't, you
know, didn't sit well with her. So a week and 1/2 or maybe two
weeks in, they put her in this crazy ass bed.
They knocked her out. You know, whatever she was in
that was kind of, you know, essentially all she wrote at one
(14:13):
point, 2 1/2 weeks in or so, everything was just crashing.
She's probably not going to makeit through the night.
Anne and I are in the hospital and a singing tour and, you
know, a few people are coming by.
I call Caitlin. I say you need to come home
right now, Catches a flight, comes home.
(14:33):
By the time she gets back to Austin, things are on the
upswing, You know, the oxygen islooking better, blah blah, blah.
Of course her mother is is sedated and out and so she
doesn't get to talk to her. But we did talk, talk, talk,
talk to you. And so she stayed about a week
and sent her back to Paris. And then some short number of
(14:57):
days later, I had to call her and tell her your mother died.
You need to come home again. So that's the worst.
And like you said you were listening to Lacey's story and
that that part where she has to tell writer that is a
heartbreaking part of all of ourstories and anyone listening
who's a widower, widower with children, having to tell them
that is. And then you weren't there with
(15:21):
her. Oh yeah, that's very difficult.
But Anna and I were at the hospital.
The hospital called. I had gone with a friend to get
out of the hospital, going to the Continental Club to hear a
little bit of music. I get out my phone.
It's like all these messages from the hospital, I call, they
say you need to come here now, this is on a Thursday.
And actually that Thursday. I had arranged to meet with all
(15:45):
the doctors on Friday morning because I said, you know, this
is, I could see the writing was on the wall.
It wasn't going well and I was ready to, you know.
Pull the plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, and and because it it just wasn't.
She wasn't going to come out of this and I knew it at that
point. So I had a meeting arranged the
(16:06):
next morning with the doctors. Thursday night they called come
to the hospital. I called Anna, her boyfriend at
the time, brought her to the hospital and you know, we OK.
Sorry, it's OK. Don, never apologize.
That's right. We don't apologize for this.
(16:26):
Is the love, I mean, exactly. And the trauma of it all.
Yeah. You know guys, it's OK to do
this, of course. We had.
We wish they would. It would be a lot healthier.
Anna and I were there. We we told her goodbye.
They flipped the switch and and our lives went to completely the
(16:47):
shit I, you know, it's it's it'sa you think the birth of your
child is the most powerful thingbut being with somebody when
they die, it's just it's phenomenal.
I mean it's, I mean, we're all gonna die.
But being with someone that you know and that you love is just,
(17:10):
you know, it's it's something I wouldn't have done any other
way. We will be right back.
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Tell them you heard about them on every widow thing.
We recently had a podcast about our husband's ashes.
Sadly, Kira still can't get intothe box, can you?
We have. To get in the box.
I'm working on. I'm working on the box.
The whole point is you want to be able to do something with
those ashes. I came across a great website,
itscalledspiritpieces.com, and what I love about it is that
(18:17):
they give you a variety of options.
It's jewelry, it's glass art, it's statues.
You can do a ton of stuff with ashes, and we all have quite a
few ashes. There's a lot in the box, yeah.
There is a lot in the box. I like the paperweight idea.
Doesn't spiritpieces.com have paperweight?
(18:37):
Yes. And you know what's so great?
And there's one that I'm actually going to order, It's
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thing so they know that you heard about it through US, is a
great option for for you and foryour loved one.
We hope you check it out. And now back to the show.
Did you Did Elaine have any timeit all happened so quickly
before she was unconscious? Was there any discussion around
(19:21):
this? Could be it?
Were you just telling her you loved her or did she know?
Other other than her, you know, four or five days into it saying
is it, is it my time is, is thisit?
And I'm like, no, no 'cause you're trying.
To stay positive anyway, that's 'cause that's a lot of the time.
It's part of the fighting journey for people that are ill
(19:43):
and you want to give them that last bit of strength that
they're going to be able to turnit around.
But it was also about that time that when it was, I'm thinking
this is not going well. You know this this could be this
could be bad. Did you and your girls seek out
any therapy in the wake of of the loss?
And I know that was a big part of healing for many of us.
(20:06):
I know it's important for the kids, but it's hard.
It's different ages. To get your children on board
with that kind of thing. We did.
We had actually done a little bit of therapy some odd number
of years ago. We went in for kind of one of my
children and the whole family goes and I was the one that
ended up going back. So, you know, I had a little
(20:28):
experience with it and and so yes, we did.
We found a woman therapist. We went one time and all we
heard from her was, you know, whenever we were discussing
things, all we heard from her was, how does that make you
feel? How does that make you feel?
And we walked out of there and we looked at each other and
(20:49):
went, well, we're not going backto see her and because.
She should know. We feel like garbage.
Yeah, that's how that feels. And that was it.
Anne and I did do some. Maybe a year later she and I
went together to to someone, butCaitlin was still, you know, she
(21:11):
did her. She finished her six months in
in France and. Probably exactly what she needed
at that time. Maybe.
For certain age kids, you. You never know.
What Sometimes they need a little escape.
Some little ones have to dip in and dip out.
They can't. Well, we've discussed and she,
you know, obviously, she said. You know, you and Anna were
(21:34):
there together going through this, and I was across the.
Right. Reef is very isolating anyway,
and she may have felt even more separate.
And I just imagine that your brain is so mean, you know, your
brain can be so mean to yourselfand not give yourself any grace.
(21:55):
And she probably was struggling with guilt for not being there
and. Anger.
Yeah, and it's a lot of. Mom, Sister, world, and.
That really is that is the one emotion.
That I'm always. Talking about is.
Anger. Anger.
That anger because. When I met you, I think that was
(22:16):
why Adam and and Wendy wanted usto meet so.
But I'm glad because didn't you end up doing a a grief group?
That's how you met Zephyr, our friends.
Well, you're the one who told meabout this grief group.
Yeah, this is 2 1/2 years after Elaine died, 'cause I'm like,
I'm just going to worry about the kids.
I want them to be fine. I want them to get over this.
(22:38):
And, you know, Needless to say or, you know, boy, we struggled.
I mean, it was, it was it was brutal.
It was absolutely brutal. So many details.
I I don't even remember Anne andI was still in the house.
But, you know, it's in my mind. I hardly remember that.
And I certainly wasn't doing anyparenting.
And she's 16. She's 16 at the time, so a
(23:01):
sophomore or junior? Something like that.
And so would you say that you kind of retreated or you like
what? What were you?
What were you doing during that time that makes you feel like
you weren't really parenting? I just.
We had a full time job. Yeah, well, you know, I had a
job and and then it was like, no, you're going to have to
(23:22):
figure this out. You're going to have to learn
stuff on your own. I don't have the energy.
I don't have the brain power. I'm mad.
I am so mad. I mean, I'm surprised people at
work didn't just beat me up all the time because I was so mad at
people and so hostile. And I did a lot of apologizing,
though I am not afraid to apologize.
(23:44):
And I I've gotten pretty good atit because I have to do it a
lot. But anger was just, you know,
just, you know, and. Takes over again.
We appreciate. You acknowledging that because I
think that's the one emotion that is the most difficult to
deal with. You can help people who are
(24:05):
crying. You feel like you can hug them.
But when people are angry and that is a natural side effect of
grief and it's not. Very sympathized with.
You know everyone expects you tobe sad, you know, and go in a
room and cry and sit in the dark.
But they don't expect some of the irritation and frustration
and the short fuse and the lack of capacity for trivial things.
(24:29):
Date that other people you know silly things are going on in
other people's lives and you just have no bandwidth for.
Exactly. Anna, you know, two months after
Elaine died, Anna said. You know, all my friends have
gone back to doing what they do and I'm still sad.
And I said, well, you know, one thing you learn is the world
continues to go around. Your world stops, but the world
(24:52):
continues to go around. And that's the way it should be.
Everybody's there for the first month.
And I always tell people, several other people I know that
have lost their spouse in the last, you know, three or four
years is everybody's there for the first month or two bringing
food, we're calling. I said go back in six months and
see how they're doing. Go back year to.
(25:15):
Year, yeah. Go back in 13 years.
When something big happens when your child graduates and goes to
college. Is.
It going, you know? Six months, six months in, I
called one of the teachers from Malayan School and said, could
you get some people to, like, make some meals for me?
I mean, I'm not even cooking at this point.
(25:36):
I'm not doing, you know, in six months in and you get a lot of
people. One thing you learn in, you
know, grief counseling is like, you hear all this.
Oh, my friends are like, well, it's been six months, You should
be over this and. We hate the word over, but
there's no getting over. It's.
It's getting through. And hopefully you find a way to
(25:58):
to do it in a healthy way, whichyou did end up doing.
I mean, so because I saw the lights come on, I did.
I remember meeting you and I waslike, Oh my, we're both 2.
Two people that are swimming in grief.
That was really kind of comical.And then we went to a couple of
parties that Zephyr and some other people were that.
It was nice because they were this.
(26:18):
That was my first introduction to a group of people because I
went to the grief group, the onethat I told you about.
I hated it because the the olderlady, much older lady said you
can find somebody else. And I have said it, don't ever
say that again. And I'm leaving and I left and I
never went back. So I did the one-on-one and then
(26:39):
I found you guys. But we could only dip in and out
because I was Ryder was so little.
I was still just having to do the basic things but.
Like Don said, like I know I was.
I was all about my kids. Right.
I was, I came. I was the last person that I was
taking care of because it was just I had three little kids and
they'd lost their dad and I all I.
(27:00):
Did. I'm worried about this.
That's all I did for a long time.
And you're exhausted. Creeps up on you later when
you're like, oh wait, I finally did have a therapist That said,
you know you never grieved, right?
I feel like some, in some ways Istill haven't grieved fully and
I'm six years in before we go into the happier moments when
(27:21):
you meet Katie and we're dying to hear about that.
And then Katie, we want to know all about what is married to a
widower, because that's a whole.That could take two hours.
Don. What?
Especially with Don, just so we right.
We have, we have, we have widowers who listen in and I
actually know one in particular who's just now five months in.
(27:44):
He has a nine year old daughter.What advice would you give to
yourself back then? Like, what would you want to
tell yourself back then when, asyou say, everything had gone to
shit? And this is one thing that I've
I've learned when I met Lacey and she had mentioned this, the
(28:06):
grief counseling. And OK, 2 1/2 years in I go.
It's like 10 people met Zephyr. Zephyr, like half my age.
But just a a great a great person.
I like his name. Yeah, darling.
And so you meet these people andyou find that you have all this
things, same thing in common. And one lady came in, had been
(28:31):
six years since her husband died.
One lady came in, had been two weeks since her husband died.
Right. And I'm keeping my, you know,
one of them's keeping, you know,the son is five and keeping the
husband's suits And you know, I got, I mean I had a yard sale
really quick. I, you know whatever you're
doing in when your spouse dies, whatever you're doing, however
(28:57):
you're handling it is OK You know, I I you always say well,
you you don't really have a choice.
You have to get strong. Well you do have a choice.
You can go down the hill and youcan become an alcoholic and you
can do what not OK that's not a good choice.
But whatever you're doing is normal.
(29:18):
And everybody's going to do it different.
People are going to keep some stuff around and people are
going to get rid of spouses stuff and people are going to
start some therapy, you know, two weeks in and some are going
to be like me and wait 2 1/2 years and some are going to be
6. And also, one thing I learned is
(29:40):
you do what you want to do. Friends would call and go, hey,
we're going to go here. We're going to go have dinner.
We're going to go to a bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then I call them 1/2 hour before go, not going.
And they're like, well, why not?I don't.
I don't want to, yeah. I can't handle it.
I just don't feel like it. So you do whatever you think you
need to do, and at some point you know things.
(30:07):
Things start back up at some point.
That's really good advice. It really.
Is it is good advice. So tell us a little bit more
about the grieve group really quickly, just because I know I
never was able to found find one.
But then again, I didn't have a lot of free time because I had
the three kids and have no family in the area.
And then I met her, and then her, and then her, and then that
(30:28):
became, and I felt the same thatyou were describing with your
grief group. I finally was with people that
got it. And that's why we're here today,
because. We all did everything.
Overwhelming, joyful feeling to have people that understood me.
Well, I I having your spouse that I puts you in a little
fraternity that you don't want to be in and all of a sudden and
(30:51):
and you do and you meet other people and you can really
empathize with them. You can my friends help me out
so much. But this grief group, like I
said, you didn't. It wasn't your thing.
And I went and immediately was like, OK, this is OK this is
where I need to be. And I did it, I think for about
(31:13):
a year. I don't really remember.
And at some point I'm like, OK, I'm I'm OK with this.
But just being in there and having other people, you know,
that old proverbial safe space or whatever is, they're in the
same boat. And you realize there's a lot of
people in the same boat that you're in and you're not.
You're absolutely not alone. How did you find it?
(31:36):
Was it like a Facebook thing or how did you find it?
Well, it was. I think that used.
To hurt my healing place. And then it's now the grief,
grief, grief and Center for grief and loss.
OK, you came on and got this great group of people that were
kind of fun and cool, 'cause I met them through you and I
thought. Well, Zephyr were.
Zephyr and Zephyr. Younger, Super.
(31:57):
Cute, I think for me it was, yeah, the widow.
I was 42. It was like finding.
I couldn't find anyone that was under 65 or whatever to hang out
with. Like it was just hard to chart,
you know, hard to find young. Is that a problem?
Young window widows. Back then, but I.
I was in it with small. I mean, one of my kids was four.
I was in it with small kids. So it's just a different time.
(32:21):
And then some of the groups, that group I don't think was
around or at least I'd never found it.
And some of the groups were verycancer related, which would have
been great for you, but ours wassudden death.
So it was just kind of a different, not the same journey.
You go in and they do like an intake, right.
They talk, they did a little interview with you and like OK,
this group and they have this group and that group and whether
it's you know, different. However, your loss was
(32:45):
experienced and you, you know, like we think you, we think
you'll be good, you know? You know, men are told to buck
up, be a man, handle it. And so hearing that you actually
went and and found a group that's I think that's so
important. Men, men, Don't you know that's
why we have bartenders, right? You know.
(33:06):
Or friends. And I don't really have a
bartender here in town, but I have friends.
And there comes a point where I'm thinking, wow, they're tired
of hearing this. They've got to be tired of
hearing. Right.
That's it. I think we've all thought that
before. I do want real quick.
We talk about the Friends thing.A couple years in or, I don't
know, three or four years and I don't know a group of friends
(33:30):
and I, we started riding bikes. We'd go over the East Side
Sunday morning, 9:00. We would ride bikes around, you
know, nice and flat 18 miles, and we'd go someplace like
Cisco's and have, you know, breakfast tacos and everything.
And I remember riding my bike with this group of friends and
all of a sudden it hit me that Iwasn't thinking about lane and
(33:53):
death and how horrible things were.
I was out with friends and I wasgetting exercise and I was doing
stuff. And just the fact that you
realized that, wow, you, I'm notthinking about this 24 hours a
day. I'm thinking about 20-3 hours a
day. But you know, and so I had
these, this group of friends that were that were there for me
(34:16):
and stayed with me and listened to me tell the story 125 times.
And later on some of these friends, when they were having
issues in their life, they wouldcall up and go, hey, can I come
sit at the bonfire and have a beer?
And so I realized that wow, I'm,you know, these people help me
(34:40):
and now I'm able to listen to you and help you out and so and
that happened on several occasions and and and so you
know friendship and your friends, your good ones will
hang with you. But it says a lot about you too,
Don. I think we talk about, oh, they
have such great friends. Well, it speaks to you as a
person too, if you have those. That's what I hear.
(35:03):
I'm super fun. I'm really great.
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