February 13, 2025 • 37 mins
Holly shares about a disappointing date with a man who drove a red Porsche. And, no, it wasn't Jake Ryan. ;) After the holidays, it appears that there are more men on the apps, but is the quality better? That remains to be seen. Hear the widows' take on their dating app experiences and dating overall. Keira met her fiancé on Hinge, so maybe there is hope. (We had a few technical difficulties with the microphones. We have addressed it going forward. Thanks for your patience.)
00:00:00 - The Struggles of Young Widows
Discussion on societal expectations for young widows and the impact on their lives.
00:00:26 - Sound Issues Acknowledgment
Introduction and acknowledgment of sound issues in the episode.
00:00:40 - Coping with Widowhood
Conversations about coping mechanisms and the ongoing journey of widowhood.
00:01:13 - Dating Apps and Experiences
Discussion on the influx of people on dating apps in January and personal experiences with them.
00:01:39 - First Date Experience
Details of a first date at Jeffrey's and the expectations versus reality.
00:02:14 - Date Dynamics
Exploration of the conversation dynamics during the date and the focus on the male perspective.
00:03:48 - Revelation of Widowhood
The challenge of discussing widowhood during the date and the missed opportunities for connection.
00:05:14 - Post-Date Reflections
Reactions and feelings after the date, including disappointment and frustration.
00:08:07 - Communication After the Date
Discussion on the importance of closing off communication after a date and the common rudeness in dating.
00:09:44 - Dating Etiquette
Conversations about how to handle dating situations and the importance of being upfront.
00:10:56 - The Numbers Game in Dating
Discussion on the idea that dating can be a numbers game and the importance of experience.
00:12:11 - The Challenge of Grieving
Exploration of the complexities of dating while grieving and the emotional toll it takes.
00:14:10 - Past Relationships
Reflections on past relationships and the challenges of finding a meaningful connection.
00:15:46 - Navigating New Relationships
Discussion on the difficulties of dating someone who is also a widower and the complexities involved.
00:16:22 - Experiences with Arrogant Dates
Sharing of experiences with arrogant dates and the impact of their behavior.
00:18:04 - Listener Questions on Dating
Addressing listener questions about dating and the challenges of blending families.
00:20:20 - Setting Boundaries in Dating
Discussion on the importance of setting boundaries when dating someone with children.
00:21:14 - Honesty in Dating Conversations
The significance of being honest about intentions and desires in dating.
00:23:39 - Talking to Kids About Dating
Sharing experiences on how to approach the topic of dating with children.
00:25:02 - Keeping Kids Out of the Loop
Discussion on the decision to keep children unaware of dating until it becomes serious.
00:27:30 - The Complexity of Blending Families
Exploration of the challenges faced when blending families and the impact of ex-partners.
00:30:25 - Reflections on Past Relationships
Reflections on the emotional challenges of past relationships and the importance of healing.
00:32:14 - The Journey of Healing
Discussion on the ongoing journey of healing and the complexities of moving forward.
00:35:17 - Future Dating Outloo
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Young widows, we're brushed aside, we're swept under the rug
or hurry up and get married again, move on with your life,
get over it. And I don't think people are
like looking at what that reallymeans.
What what does that mean for someone that's gone through it?
What does that mean for their family dynamic?
What does that mean for their kids?
What does that mean for their friendships?
The whole 9 yards. This is every widow thing you.
(00:26):
Guys, Whitney here, before you get started on this awesome
episode, we wanted to acknowledge that there are some
sound issues. We are working on the problem
and we appreciate your patience.Now let's get to the episode.
It is early February. There's a lot going on in the
world and we're just going to get together and talk about the
(00:46):
start of 2025, what that looks like for us, what we're doing to
cope with our widowhoodness and which we still are and.
They didn't come back. Up with each other like we
haven't been cured well. Polly decided you decided to go
back on the dating apps. I don't know why.
Well, I, I do it too. It's like you get on and then
(01:08):
you get disheartened and then you get off and then you're
like, whoa, I need to find someone.
I don't know how. I read that January is sort of
like, you know, gym memberships is a big influx of people, and
maybe you told me that big influx of people getting on.
Oh, that online that makes sensefor the first time.
Or going back to it to just see what's out there.
I may not be the most positive representative for got on a
(01:32):
different. App that I.
Lot been on and do and I. Say the name of that.
Hinge. I hadn't been on hinge and y'all
were like you should get on hinge.
Hinge was my. Favorite mine too.
It's the same people and the same photos we've.
Had Brendan, Yeah. I mean, a few new people were
hinged, but not many. What happened?
(01:53):
Because after the day you textedus and you're just like, I
should have never gone. I spent more time figuring out
we're thinking about what I was going to wear that I actually on
the date. Yeah, so walk us through.
So I was like, he recommended meeting at Jeffrey's, which I
was like. That is very high.
(02:13):
Wanky first day. So I was like, OK, this is good.
Well, first of all, I know you can't go to Jeffrey's without a
reservation, but I kept my mouthshut and I was like, he's like,
we'll find a table. I'm like, great.
And I got there 1st and it was an hour wait and I was like, hi.
And so then he got, he arrived and the Hostess is like saying,
(02:36):
you know, it's an hour wait. So then he we walk outside and
he asked the ballet, is there another bar around here?
And I was like, Josephine House is right next door.
We could just go there 'cause OK, I got it back up.
I got it back up. Let me ask you this.
Were you in a better frame of mind when you first got there,
or were you already perturbed because you knew?
(02:58):
Oh no no, no, I'm, I'm OK. So he pulls up in a red Porsche,
like he wants to be seen clearly.
I'm like, whatever. And he gets out and I'm like,
OK, He's kind of he's kind. Of hot Is it Jake Ryan?
So anyway, his red Porsche stayssitting in the valet area.
(03:20):
I'll get back to that later. So then we go to Josephine House
and it's nice. We sit outside.
They they're like we have a table or dad.
It was a beautiful night and theconversation's good.
Like, I mean, I, I thought it was great conversation, although
it was mostly by him. I learned a whole lot about him.
(03:40):
He didn't ask me many questions.But a lot of men, when they're
nervous, that's what they do andthey're trying to impress.
You Yeah, right. So I I thought it was going
fine. And kids, our kids are around
the same age. He threw in something he said
about his he said something likeafter my wife died and it was
(04:03):
telling a story. So I was like, OK, OK, his wife
died and I kept wanting to come back and say, you know, how did
your wife die? But I could never find a wait
you. Never went back and said I'm a
widow. He didn't ever know.
No, he never gave me the opportunity, Whitney.
He asked me, OK, when we first sat down, he was like, did you
(04:26):
work today? And I said yes.
And he didn't even ask me what Ido.
Like it was a little bit awkward.
Like like I never had this opportunity to say I'm a widow.
And like he never, he wasn't saying my wife died.
My wife died. Like he was telling a story and
it was related to after my wife died, we moved.
(04:47):
He went on with his story about him and his life and everything
he does. And he was telling me like he
works from home. Remember this, He works from
home. He'd been home working all day.
Just remember that this. Picture after me.
Oh, this? Don't.
Worry I I Detective Holly found Mary.
(05:08):
We should just pull it up right now.
Now I'm dying to know because itsounds like he's trying to
impress you to me. So then and like, I mean, we had
one drink. I mean, I felt like the
conversation was flowing well and enjoyable, like I was having
a good time or a nice time and wanted like I wanted to keep
going. Like I wanted to find out how
(05:31):
his wife died and tell him I'm awidow.
Like I wanted to get further into the conversation.
And then the the waitress came over and he did the like, you
know the sign, Bring me the check just in the air.
After one drink. After one drink and he's like,
I've got to get home. We had to get home to take care
(05:54):
of his dogs, even though he works from home.
And he'd been home and I was like, you know, OK, great, you
know. And then he started talking
about, he was telling me about his car and how he drives a
certain car when he's going to valet it, because if he drives a
certain car, he can pull up to the valet and they will let him
(06:18):
stay parked there. And I was like.
So he's a little bit. Other a.
Very arrogant, yeah. Very arrogant and y'all.
Were supposed to go back to Jeffrey's.
Well, I'd gotten the notification that the table was
ready. And I was like, oh, the table's
ready. Do you want to go?
(06:38):
And I mean, we both still had, you know, most of our drink.
And I was like, you know, he's like, well, it's nice here.
And I was like, yeah, it's great.
I mean, we were sitting outside.It was nice.
It was the day. Hour and a.
Half so then that's hurtful. Were you hurt then, or were you
still? Well, I, I was like, you know,
(06:58):
hey, I'm going to let you go, get back to, you know, get home
to your dogs because he, you know, he paid the chat and then
we walked back to Jeffrey's, to the valet where his car was
parked right in front. Like right on the grass or
something right there. And he gave me a hug and I, you
know, laughed and I just got my car and I was like, what a waste
(07:21):
of my time. What a total waste of my time.
And it just like, just like mademe so mad that I, I left work
early so I could go home and getready.
And I changed five times and put.
Me in he'd been a widower, is what I I was curious about.
Think amount of time is me. So then you go.
(07:43):
Home and you start. You put on your detective hat.
Anybody who says they don't do that is a liar.
It just sounds like it was superdisrespectful that you didn't
even get a chance to talk much. The whole date was him, and then
he made the decision that you weren't a good fit when you
didn't even have a chance, right?
And so did he text you later or not anything?
(08:04):
So did you done did? You text him the next.
Evening because I think it's shitty to go on a date on an
through the app and then not close it off like send me a
comment like it was nice, wasn'tit wasn't it and that's fine
it's. Just it's gotten so commonplace
(08:25):
that people can be so rude. It was rude and all I said when
I I was like, you know what, just because this is what I want
to do. I was like, it was nice meeting
you and maybe like hope you had a good weekend.
That was it. I used to do that like for
myself. Yeah, that's what I I was like,
I have to do this. For me, maybe the guy was a jerk
(08:47):
or wasn't a fit. It's just kind of how you're
raised, you know? Like I would either say it
wasn't. It was so nice to meet you.
Thank you for the drink. Wasn't a good fit.
Just. Yeah, like you said, just common
polite. I've been on the other side too,
though, where, like, I can tell it's not going to work.
And then I just am uncomfortableand I get out of there and,
(09:09):
like, one guy texted me right away and.
And I said, you know, thank you for the date.
I don't think it's a good fit because, yeah, I could tell that
by the way you zoomed out of theparking lot in your car.
And I was like. Sorry about that.
Yeah. But then he went on to like get
all angry and be rude on text and I was like.
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
Angry people also, even when I didn't do anything wrong.
(09:30):
But maybe I just said, oh, it's not a good time.
I have little kids. This week is not going to work
for me. Yeah.
And then the whole, you know, well, why are you even on the
app if you can't make time? And I, I just think it's
different if you're a widow and you're a full time mom, then if
you're divorced and you maybe have that week off or some days
off where you can play on dates.But I never really had that.
(09:53):
And so sometimes it's just really hard to juggle.
Well, you kind of feel bad because I'm talking about like
closing it out. Right.
And how many people did you ghost this week?
Oh, no, not any, but I had one the one guy that I.
Was the boat. Guy thought the Colorado.
Didn't Oh, this is a guy I mean I met a while ago in camper.
(10:14):
No, I got nuts for so many people and I the guy that I went
to stepping with and he listenedto our podcast and like he's a
nice guy, but I and I never completely cut it off.
I was just like I just didn't feel romantic connection but I
enjoyed the company like 2 stepping and stuff so I never
(10:35):
like. Did he text you recently?
No, not recently. Well, if you go to Don's Depot.
I know it's just I don't have a romantic connection and so and
if he's listening, I'm sorry. That's the hard part.
And like, you know, look, it's going to happen.
Not everyone is going to, you know, be attracted to us and
we're not going to be attracted to everybody.
The issue is how do you handle because obviously he was ready
(10:59):
to go, but he hurt your feelings.
But I do. I've done that too, where I'm
nice to meet you. OK, got to go.
Bye. I did kind of learned that I
can't, I have to say I'm too much of A people pleaser.
And in the beginning, I would agree to a second date, even
though I knew, like in person, right?
Even though I knew. I'm the same way.
(11:20):
I'm the same way. Ready.
For that second date. But I did then learn, realize
that it's kinder to not, you know, lead someone on.
It's kinder to be upfront about.I know, but respond in the app
and and and respond to me and say I didn't feel a connection.
I wish you all the best. Yeah, bye.
(11:41):
And then I you know. Then be an adult about it.
But I remember, Kira, you sayingsomething where like at overtime
you stopped obsessing. Like right now I feel like the
dates are few and far between. Like you really are trying to be
picky about who you go out with.So every date seems like a a
(12:02):
huge deal of like everything is on the line.
Like this could be the one. And I remember you saying you
got to a point where you're like, yeah, I'm not even putting
on makeup. I.
I mean, what are the jokes with me and Brendan in our first date
is that I didn't really dress upor do a lot of makeup or
anything. Yeah, kind of rolled in the way
I've been running around that day and then texted my friends
(12:25):
from the bathroom like, Oh my gosh, this guy's really cute.
And I like, I phoned in something like my my look
because I got tired of. Yeah, just.
Sort of. Well, and I'd kind of wished I'd
done that. Really, we have to get to a
point where it's just like either it's kind of like with
auditioning. You go in thinking, you know
what? If it's mine, I'm going to get
(12:45):
it. If it's not mine, let it.
Go. And you don't because when you
care so much and you want to find that next great partner.
And that's part of the issue too, because we're coming from a
place of having great partners and you want to have that again.
And you put, so you put all youreggs in that one basket.
(13:06):
I'm a I'm pretty guilty of, I think it happened with Oliver
too. I was always the type that if
it's not there on the first day,I'm out.
And I had a, the therapist that I the only one that I really saw
for, you know, that was really good was Cheryl.
And she said some people are a slow burn.
You really do have to get to know some people.
And as you get to know them, they, you know, they turn to
(13:28):
this wonderful person, not necessarily turn into, but you
see all there's like what? He didn't give you the
opportunity to see what a wonderful person you are.
I was guilty of that. And Oliver was part of the
problem because it was immediate.
I saw him in the elevator and itwas, I mean, electricity.
So after that I'm kind of like, oh, I guess that's the way it's
supposed to be. If it doesn't knock me over,
(13:49):
then I can move on. So that's why I've been on
probably over 61st date. Well.
I was about to say in a way, don't you kind of think it's a
numbers game some too? Like the more you go out, the
less of a deal it's going to be that you have a date because
you've been going on a lot of dates and then you can be
pleasantly surprised versus trying to pick the perfect
(14:09):
person look. It's like practicing anything
else. I know.
And I think that's why a lot of us, it's hard and you know it.
It's also hard when you're grieving and you're still in
love with your dead husband. And so it's kind of like I would
do sort of like what Holly is doing.
Like I would have like a few weeks where I would try and go
(14:31):
on some things and then you haveto take a break.
And then I would talk myself back up until like, let's go
back out and see what's out there.
Let's try again. And.
Remind us, how many guys did yougo out with and kind of start a
relationship with before Brendan?
I would say 2. OK.
And that's in. One was somebody I named from my
past or how long and then the other one was maybe about seven
(14:55):
months, but that was interestingabout that one was it just never
progressed the. Forward.
Guy or or I'm not going to say who it is or the other, the
lawyer, right? I remember once I met Brendan,
things were progressing with himthe way I remember progressing
with Frank. Like some of these men you meet,
they're not really ready, and sothey want to just have someone.
(15:18):
And it's nice for a while just to have a partner to go out to
dinner with and, you know, go see concerts or whatever.
But I was really looking for that progression.
Like, are my feelings growing orhis feelings growing?
Or you've talked about your relationship stalling out for a
while now. Now you're rowing.
Now you're leaning in. Well, and this guy's defense,
and God knows he needs one. He's also a widower.
(15:41):
He may be quasi dating too. Like not sure he he's ready for
The Who knows? Yeah.
Right, spit it. And and say, look, you were
exactly who he was looking for. And it freaked him out and he
couldn't handle it and he's not ready.
So he got the check and he ran. So that was red Porsche.
She was red Porsche and his dog.Zoomed away, but think of
something. Like though, you don't know, I
(16:03):
mean, he is. I mean, hey, he's if you're kind
of new to it still and you're around the same amount of time
being a widower, he may have waited a long time to date too.
By at the end of the day he was rude.
He was woe. There's no don't be rude if
you're going to go out there, don't be gross, recognized,
legal, typical for everybody andjust be kind.
Well, I had one funny thing happened that made me realize
(16:25):
that guys can be kind of mean. There was one day.
I may have said this before, buthe drove up in a souped up car.
It's like $150,000 car. And I was like, great, not my
type. I like low key quiet and kind of
mysterious like Oliver. So we go to the bar at Ichiko,
we're sitting there and he's ordering all this stuff for me.
And I was like, wait a minute, Ihave an opinion on what I want
(16:46):
to order. So one of my friends texted me
at the same time, sending me an order.
And he was being so arrogant thewhole time, talking about
himself and about his career. And he clearly had done very
well and how he and his wife do this thing where they nest in
the house. Have y'all ever heard of that?
Yeah, that's all the kids. Don't have to move.
Right. So they, he was telling me all
(17:07):
about that, but my friend was texting me and he's like, what's
that text for us? And she's only telling me this
like really particular thing to get to Uchiko that I'd had with
her. And I couldn't remember the name
of it, just said it. And he was like, who's that?
And I gave her name. And the joke is he was like, Oh
my gosh, how do you know her? And I was like, she's been over
a really long time because her husband is my boss.
That was the most fun night. Because after that, that man
(17:30):
straightened up and he was like kissing my ass the rest of the
day, yeah. Well, thank you for sharing
that, Holly. I know it sucks.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm happy to.
You, I just don't have the time to.
I mean, that's why I was so mad.I was just like driving home,
like. Damn it, Toby.
(17:51):
Like, like, just so pissed off, I know.
I don't know, being alone doesn't sound like the worst
thing in the world to me. When it comes to if you have to
settle, that's that's something I'm not willing to do.
We had a. A listener.
I think she just DNS us on Instagram.
But she was talking about how she was thinking about dating
(18:13):
again and she was excited. It was a guy from her past.
And she was really writing in toask like, how did you you know,
did you keep it a secret for a while?
How did you address it with the kids?
But she said she's really excited about the butterflies
and having a crush and. She was on the insiders and that
(18:34):
and that. Was that's one of the things
that I try to remember of like, yeah, we're not going to have
the same relationship that we had.
And in some ways it can be better because we don't have all
the child resentment. Like you didn't give this kid a
bath for, you know, four years of his life, you know, or
whatever. You dropped your bags and went
and played basketball. No one else, just me.
All right. Anyway.
(18:54):
Oh. Like where is she going with
that? Can I ask you a question?
Yeah, so I did go on a date about a month ago and I didn't
ask a lot of questions with thisguy.
He was really nice and had greatconversation.
But the one thing I somehow missed that I usually know
beforehand, he got texted why? He said I'm sorry that I have to
do this because I have a kid at home.
(19:15):
And I was like, uh oh, that's a big no for me.
He has a 12 and a 14 year old. And I was like Nope.
How did I miss that? I mean, I am finally nitty
nester. The last thing I want to do is
he some. And so I said, he said, you look
funny right now. And I was like, oh, I'm not
hiding it well, am I? And he goes, no, he goes, what's
(19:35):
the problem? I said I if I always just kind
of decided that I don't really want to date someone who has
children and I'm right now because I am nitty nester at
yeah, ever. But I said I just don't have any
interest in and if I want to be gone for a month or two months,
I want that person to be able tocome with me.
And he said, well, I'm not looking for a mother for my
(19:59):
child. I said that, well, that's good
because I mean, I certainly don't want to do that.
I mean, I love kids. I really do.
Love kids but. Yeah, 13 years of doing this by
myself, the last thing I want todo.
And people don't seem to understand that like we've done
it alone. Yeah, it is hard.
I am worried. Down that no one else.
Can really relate. They can't relate to it.
(20:21):
And the divorcees, most of them get a break.
And after 13, I mean, he was only 6.
So I'm like, no, I mean, when I told him I said, you know, my
husband died when my son was six, he still looked at me like,
I don't get it. I'm not going to have you go to
basketball games or soccer gameswith me.
Did the day end after I just? Think he'd appreciate the
honesty? Yeah.
Oh, he did. He was actually, he said.
(20:43):
I, I just was surprised, he said.
You seem like such a person that's really into being a
mother. I said, oh, I am.
I mean, I sidestepped most of what I wanted to do in my career
and other things because I love him and I wanted him to be OK, I
said, But I don't have that in me anymore.
I don't have it in me to sacrifice anymore.
I'm ready to do what I want to do.
(21:04):
If that makes me sound selfish, then I guess I am.
I don't think it's selfish, it'sjust that's your.
Truth. You know what, right?
You have to set your boundaries about what you want I think.
Even for anybody that has kids, whether they're widowed,
divorced, single parent, you're,you're in whatever like age your
kids are, you're like in that phase, if that makes sense.
(21:27):
Yeah. So you're in the baby phase,
you're in the toddler phase, you're in the school phase,
teens, college. And it is, I think just as
another layer of complexity. If someone's in a different
phase, a phase that you've either already done, don't want
to do it again, or a phase that you don't understand, like, oh,
applying for colleges, bending my child off, things like that.
(21:50):
You know, if somebody with younger children doesn't really
understand the difficulties around my partner as a junior in
high school, right? I've sent 2 to college.
I've been through that process. I've got one left and I'm trying
to advise him a little bit with his one who is a junior.
And even he watched me go through all that with my big
(22:11):
kids for the most part or no. I just think it's hard until
you're there, you know? And right now, him and his ex
are like freaking out about SAT Probably all the things that I
went through right with my with my older kids.
It's hell on earth. I mean, the right now applying
to college is it's so hard on the kids.
It's hard on the Bears. And yeah, and then he's dealing
(22:34):
with the ex who I don't know at all.
So that. I find that so fair thing.
Five years in and you still havethat's.
A lot saying though need her coming in and acting like y'all
are friends or trying to talk with you like.
I think it was more difficult when my stepdaughter was younger
because she really was like 12 or something.
(22:55):
And I was, you know, as a mom. I just didn't understand that.
But I have now let this go because it's not my call.
So she is not watching my children.
She's not doing anything with mykids.
So it's not really I've kind of,and now, you know, my
stepdaughter's older. Well, I have a question for you,
Whitney, because somebody, I sawthem ask you this online and you
(23:17):
addressed it, but I think we'd do it on air.
Someone was asking you about when you were dating.
Like, how did you, like, when did you decide to tell the kids?
You could say the same thing here.
Like, when did you decide to tell them to just sneak around
for a while? Because that's a big deal.
Like when you've got littles at home, Like does, like when do
you, like, do they catch you when you're, you know, coming
(23:37):
out of the bedroom? OK.
I was lucky because early on we were driving to school.
This is where anybody could drive and we're driving to
school and one of the kids is telling me a story about I don't
know about. Her.
Friend whose dad's girlfriend, blah blah blah blah blah.
And so it gave me an opportunityto be like, look, I'm not there
(23:59):
yet, but when I do decide that Iwould like to date, do you guys
want to know about it or would you rather me just keep it under
wraps until it's something? To talk.
About and they were like. Keep it under wraps.
They did not want to know. So I was lucky in that I had had
this conversation just accidentally.
(24:21):
And so I didn't feel like I was keeping anything from that.
And I would say I'm going to go out with friends when really I
was just going out with on a date or, you know, I didn't ever
have anyone. Ryan didn't spend the night at
my. House while I don't.
Even know I would go to his house 'cause some of the time my
mom was still living with me. Remind us how old they were,
because that I mean, the oldest was.
(24:43):
High school oldest was 14 when Hunter died.
She was just going into her freshman year and then my boys.
Were. Going into 6th and 7th grade.
When they're really little, you have to worry about them
thinking everybody they meet, it's going to be their daddy.
But when they get a certain age,they realize.
They said that I had the whole because Karis was only 5 and I
(25:05):
didn't date right away either, but I had the whole like, I
can't have this, the kids attached to someone who's not
the right person. Exactly.
So I definitely waited a long time before anybody knew I was
dating. I was always, I was going out a
lot with my girlfriends. I'd get a sitter.
(25:26):
I guess it was like mommy's not out with her girlfriends.
And if I had a date, I would geta sitter.
But yeah, I waited a long time and.
Then I mean I think. It's just.
You figure it out along the way.There were a couple times I went
on a date and my oldest at the time, let's say she was 17 or 16
or 17, knew about it. But my youngest did not, you
(25:50):
know, the other two didn't know somehow, like I had to, maybe
she was babysitting and I had totell her I'm going.
She was older. She was the oldest.
And so by the time she was like,you know, junior senior in high
school, she knew. And we actually got in this
family argument recently becauseit came up I had dated this guy
from Argentina and they had see it spoken Spanish to my oldest,
(26:12):
who's fluent and. Karis was like.
All of this was going on behind my back, but that was a very
brief, brief relationship. But I agree, I'm being serious,
there's no point in a don't feel'cause this woman was feeling
guilty for not sharing and her kids were like I think 16 and
17. They were much older.
They're dating, so they know thesigns of dating, right?
(26:35):
But there's no reason to feel guilty because unless you're in
love with the person and you really want to make them part of
their life, you don't need to tell them anything and nor do
they really want to know why. Like you said, why get them
attached to someone if you don'teven know where it's going to
go? And that's kind of why.
I mean, Ryan and I have been dating for four years, but it
(26:56):
hasn't. It's just been in the last six
months that we've leaned in. But part of that I didn't want
him around the kids 'cause I hadno idea what it was going to
look like. And and same thing on his end.
And he had a much more complicated situation 'cause he
had an ex. It was very alive and a little
malicious. And so I hope I, well, she's
(27:19):
never going to hear this, but I hope I never meet her.
I hope I never have to be involved because then you become
part of this weird toxic relationship.
I don't want any part of it, no Sir.
I tell you the the only thing I remember about dating the writer
was little, 'cause I started dating is through.
I guess it was three years then,so maybe it was a little over
two, maybe it was probably 2 1/2.
(27:40):
Anyway, he was still pretty young, so he's 7:00 or 8:00 at
this point. But I was, you know how I think
it was match or it was one of those where there's a lot of
faces and you choose or something like that.
He came in and I pretended it was a casting.
Call I was doing. Because I was I can't tell like
this is hot ride. This is this is guided homeless
(28:01):
guy. But 'cause I I wasn't ready to
tell him. So how did you know?
I was in the field business? So I kinda was lying.
Yeah, how, how did you have thatconversation with him or how did
you ease this person in? And he also had children.
Like we got. Engaged a year and a half in I
think. And so we started dating three
years after Oliver died, so exactly 3 years and dated not
(28:26):
quite 2, just under 2. And I can't remember if I told
him we were getting. I mean the engagement was a
surprise and I knew we were going to get married, but the
engagement itself was a surprise.
Oh, I know what how they met now.
OK back up. I have a friend that has a house
in Jackson Hole. And so her boyfriend at the time
and my boyfriend, their kids knew each other and they were
(28:50):
friends. So here we are all in Jackson
Hole going skiing together. And it was.
So it's truly one of the most fun times I've ever had dating
somebody because I was with him and she had her boyfriend.
Yeah, our kids got along great. And so we had this massive, we
skied all day and, you know, drank wine and ate dinner every
night. And I was like, this is how I
(29:10):
thought, this is how it's going to be, right?
Date. This is, you know, this is how
dating we're going to be on thisside.
Oh, that's not how it also worked out.
But you know, the kids, you knowthings over time just and I, I
truly believe in a way you're right about not meeting the X
because that poison that comes in, because that was an issue.
Like the poison that comes in from someone who's hates you and
(29:32):
has never met you. It says not nice things about
you and they or met you because they're unhappy.
That's exactly the position I met.
Yeah, and poison, you're right. And when their their children
are involved, you have no control over what is being told
to these kids about me, about you.
That can destroy a relationship before you even have a chance to
(29:53):
have one. I will.
Say this, I had a conversation with his son, whom you know,
obviously very well, and he was very sweet.
And I just said, you know, that I didn't break up your parents
just so, you know, several years.
I mean, he'd had a relationship before me.
And I said, so I hope you'll just know that I'm not trying to
replace your mom. I'm just trying to be another
(30:13):
person who supports you and whatever it is you choose to do
with your life. So I felt like I was being
supportive and did all those, but over time when things chip
away at you over and over and over.
It's almost too much. It's any the chances of your
relationship surviving. Would have never.
I kept saying that if we move inthe same house, it will not make
(30:36):
it because I can't have someone coming at me all the time
because I'm already still fragile.
I'm fragile enough that I can't handle.
And like, even I've had people tell me now that there's still
things that I'm not willing to, you know, I'm having a harder
time, you know, attaching to thepeople because I don't want to
have to feel any more pain than I've already been through, You
(30:57):
know, that I've lost my mom and you know, that has its stuff.
And then my dad is grieving. It's a lot.
And it used to pile up after a while.
And I just want to enjoy my lifeor what life I have left.
I want to be able to enjoy it inthe way I want to.
And I am. I kind of like my freedom.
Yeah. I never thought I would like
yours. To jump clean on that date about
(31:19):
where you're at, Yeah. And be honest with yourself and
be honest with him. And the truth is, like, we
haven't really talked about thismuch, but blending is a lot
trickier than it looks on the Brady Bunch.
I just thought I could love. I'm like, I'm a parent.
I've got three kids, Arby's scoop, this one in and love,
love, love. But there are all these things
(31:42):
that you don't have control overthat whole other, if they're
divorced, that whole other parent.
You know, this may or may not relate to a widower and a widow
getting together, which might bea better scenario, although you
know, there's complications there as well.
I'm sure if your listener and you're out there on that
journey, we could probably do a whole other.
(32:03):
Show I'm glad you say that because I kept thinking is it me
not being accommodating? Is it me just like being patient
and I just thought, you know it really I was just so much I
still was in deep. That's one of the things that I
have to look back and think thatwas still too soon for me.
It was three years in and then five years by the time that was
(32:23):
over. And I remember it took it, it
took years before I could ever really want to date and be
excited about it because it just, I don't know.
I, I think, I don't know. I think I was ready.
The right of. The reason we all decided to
date I think, or at least I can speak for me because I started
dating fairly quickly after he died.
(32:43):
Part of it is just how quickly it was the next day.
My pants were all checking. The pulse and the We left to
tease Whitney about this, but itwas days.
That's it. I was.
Hey, you know what? There's no judge.
It was mine. Not been there.
It would only a few months. But now y'all made me lose my
(33:04):
train of thought. I'm sorry.
What was I saying? It's a way to It's not
necessarily that you're ready for love, it's that you're tired
of the pain you are like, I justwant a distraction.
Mean, you know, drinking did some of it, but you can't kiss a
wine bottle. Well, you I am.
Well, actually, well, you know, it's the oxytocin, you're in the
(33:25):
dopamine, you're chasing that like serotonin because it comes
with new love. You know, when you, me and
somebody knew that's hot and keep you're kissing this and so
you feel that feeling for a while, but then that tapers off
and then you're left with oh gosh, now I've got a try to make
a relationship work and I still haven't dealt with all of this
back here. I mean, I only had therapy for
(33:46):
one year. She had retired.
That's why I want you guys to meet her.
Yeah, we're. She's so wonderful, but abruptly
had to retire because of all thethings going on in her life.
And I was not at all ready to not have no.
And I tried several others on and, you know, one of them, it
just never was great after that.And so I felt like there were
(34:07):
still some things that didn't get quite then they probably
are, they're still not quite resolved well.
That. 13 years later, sorry to depress everybody.
No, I think everybody is on their own path and it takes some
things. Some people work through really
quickly, and then other things it takes them a little bit
longer. But in some ways you're so much
(34:28):
farther along than any of us, you know?
And then in other ways, we may be a little bit farther along
than you. But I think the key is to
recognize for me and for anyone,maybe it's like some of the
relationships are just a distraction.
Some of them are. I just want someone to hold my,
you know, touch my body. I just want like hepagonship.
(34:51):
I, I mean, you're, oh, you're right, used to sleeping next to
someone every night and suddenlythey're gone and it's very
lonely. And I realized nobody was.
I had no intimacy in my life. You know, I just was missing
connection. Yeah.
And so some of it is just wanting that.
And then you have to recognize. Or is this a life like something
(35:12):
more? Well, and hopefully this is
helpful for the listeners because that's what we really
want is like, just be true to yourself.
Pay attention to some of these signs and feelings.
Am I just distracting myself? Do I really, what are you know,
I was always checking back in with myself.
What are my feelings? Is this someone I can see myself
with? Am I just filling the void,
(35:33):
wasting my time, all the things.So what do you, how are you
feeling now Holly, in terms of are you just going to, are you
going to go on some more dates or are you just going to take a
break? I don't really optimistic.
I'm not necessarily optimistic. I mean, I'd rather just meet
somebody through a friend next weekend 0.
(35:54):
That's right, we're. Spending Valentine's Day
together and I think I spent my first Valentine's without Toby
with y'all. But where did we go?
We went to The Four Seasons, Yeah.
And I. Feel like.
And we met you, right? After the group, it was around
Valentine. It was probably right after
(36:15):
there. Were Jeffrey's figure, which I
was going to mention earlier. Apparently we did.
Now we don't. Now we don't like Jeffrey's.
No, I like Jeffrey's. I mean, hey, red Porsche guy
can. Show up Jeffrey's and run into
him and. I love him to run into all of
us. Well, clearly he's.
Not doesn't frequent. He didn't know that you needed a
reservation. I would love to tell him more
(36:37):
about me. Just so, OK.
Well, on that note, we appreciate you guys.
If you haven't already, join ourFacebook group, the Every Widow
Thing Insiders. A lot of widows and widowers are
communicating with each other. They're helping each other,
guiding each other, asking questions.
We also get in on it. So it's a good place to go if
(36:59):
you want more community. And we just want you to know
you're going to you're going to do great.
We're all doing our best. You're going to get through
this. And I just posted something
today. You can cry in your bathroom
when you when you're overwhelmed.
Young widows, we're brushed aside, we're swept under the rug
or hurry up and get married again, move on with your life,
get over it. And I don't think people are
like looking at what that reallymeans.
What what does that mean for someone that's gone through it?
What does that mean for their family dynamic?
What does that mean for their kids?
What does that mean for their friendships?
The whole 9 yards. This is every widow thing you.
(00:26):
Guys, Whitney here, before you get started on this awesome
episode, we wanted to acknowledge that there are some
sound issues. We are working on the problem
and we appreciate your patience.Now let's get to the episode.
It is early February. There's a lot going on in the
world and we're just going to get together and talk about the
(00:46):
start of 2025, what that looks like for us, what we're doing to
cope with our widowhoodness and which we still are and.
They didn't come back. Up with each other like we
haven't been cured well. Polly decided you decided to go
back on the dating apps. I don't know why.
Well, I, I do it too. It's like you get on and then
(01:08):
you get disheartened and then you get off and then you're
like, whoa, I need to find someone.
I don't know how. I read that January is sort of
like, you know, gym memberships is a big influx of people, and
maybe you told me that big influx of people getting on.
Oh, that online that makes sensefor the first time.
Or going back to it to just see what's out there.
I may not be the most positive representative for got on a
(01:32):
different. App that I.
Lot been on and do and I. Say the name of that.
Hinge. I hadn't been on hinge and y'all
were like you should get on hinge.
Hinge was my. Favorite mine too.
It's the same people and the same photos we've.
Had Brendan, Yeah. I mean, a few new people were
hinged, but not many. What happened?
(01:53):
Because after the day you textedus and you're just like, I
should have never gone. I spent more time figuring out
we're thinking about what I was going to wear that I actually on
the date. Yeah, so walk us through.
So I was like, he recommended meeting at Jeffrey's, which I
was like. That is very high.
(02:13):
Wanky first day. So I was like, OK, this is good.
Well, first of all, I know you can't go to Jeffrey's without a
reservation, but I kept my mouthshut and I was like, he's like,
we'll find a table. I'm like, great.
And I got there 1st and it was an hour wait and I was like, hi.
And so then he got, he arrived and the Hostess is like saying,
(02:36):
you know, it's an hour wait. So then he we walk outside and
he asked the ballet, is there another bar around here?
And I was like, Josephine House is right next door.
We could just go there 'cause OK, I got it back up.
I got it back up. Let me ask you this.
Were you in a better frame of mind when you first got there,
or were you already perturbed because you knew?
(02:58):
Oh no no, no, I'm, I'm OK. So he pulls up in a red Porsche,
like he wants to be seen clearly.
I'm like, whatever. And he gets out and I'm like,
OK, He's kind of he's kind. Of hot Is it Jake Ryan?
So anyway, his red Porsche stayssitting in the valet area.
(03:20):
I'll get back to that later. So then we go to Josephine House
and it's nice. We sit outside.
They they're like we have a table or dad.
It was a beautiful night and theconversation's good.
Like, I mean, I, I thought it was great conversation, although
it was mostly by him. I learned a whole lot about him.
(03:40):
He didn't ask me many questions.But a lot of men, when they're
nervous, that's what they do andthey're trying to impress.
You Yeah, right. So I I thought it was going
fine. And kids, our kids are around
the same age. He threw in something he said
about his he said something likeafter my wife died and it was
(04:03):
telling a story. So I was like, OK, OK, his wife
died and I kept wanting to come back and say, you know, how did
your wife die? But I could never find a wait
you. Never went back and said I'm a
widow. He didn't ever know.
No, he never gave me the opportunity, Whitney.
He asked me, OK, when we first sat down, he was like, did you
(04:26):
work today? And I said yes.
And he didn't even ask me what Ido.
Like it was a little bit awkward.
Like like I never had this opportunity to say I'm a widow.
And like he never, he wasn't saying my wife died.
My wife died. Like he was telling a story and
it was related to after my wife died, we moved.
(04:47):
He went on with his story about him and his life and everything
he does. And he was telling me like he
works from home. Remember this, He works from
home. He'd been home working all day.
Just remember that this. Picture after me.
Oh, this? Don't.
Worry I I Detective Holly found Mary.
(05:08):
We should just pull it up right now.
Now I'm dying to know because itsounds like he's trying to
impress you to me. So then and like, I mean, we had
one drink. I mean, I felt like the
conversation was flowing well and enjoyable, like I was having
a good time or a nice time and wanted like I wanted to keep
going. Like I wanted to find out how
(05:31):
his wife died and tell him I'm awidow.
Like I wanted to get further into the conversation.
And then the the waitress came over and he did the like, you
know the sign, Bring me the check just in the air.
After one drink. After one drink and he's like,
I've got to get home. We had to get home to take care
(05:54):
of his dogs, even though he works from home.
And he'd been home and I was like, you know, OK, great, you
know. And then he started talking
about, he was telling me about his car and how he drives a
certain car when he's going to valet it, because if he drives a
certain car, he can pull up to the valet and they will let him
(06:18):
stay parked there. And I was like.
So he's a little bit. Other a.
Very arrogant, yeah. Very arrogant and y'all.
Were supposed to go back to Jeffrey's.
Well, I'd gotten the notification that the table was
ready. And I was like, oh, the table's
ready. Do you want to go?
(06:38):
And I mean, we both still had, you know, most of our drink.
And I was like, you know, he's like, well, it's nice here.
And I was like, yeah, it's great.
I mean, we were sitting outside.It was nice.
It was the day. Hour and a.
Half so then that's hurtful. Were you hurt then, or were you
still? Well, I, I was like, you know,
(06:58):
hey, I'm going to let you go, get back to, you know, get home
to your dogs because he, you know, he paid the chat and then
we walked back to Jeffrey's, to the valet where his car was
parked right in front. Like right on the grass or
something right there. And he gave me a hug and I, you
know, laughed and I just got my car and I was like, what a waste
(07:21):
of my time. What a total waste of my time.
And it just like, just like mademe so mad that I, I left work
early so I could go home and getready.
And I changed five times and put.
Me in he'd been a widower, is what I I was curious about.
Think amount of time is me. So then you go.
(07:43):
Home and you start. You put on your detective hat.
Anybody who says they don't do that is a liar.
It just sounds like it was superdisrespectful that you didn't
even get a chance to talk much. The whole date was him, and then
he made the decision that you weren't a good fit when you
didn't even have a chance, right?
And so did he text you later or not anything?
(08:04):
So did you done did? You text him the next.
Evening because I think it's shitty to go on a date on an
through the app and then not close it off like send me a
comment like it was nice, wasn'tit wasn't it and that's fine
it's. Just it's gotten so commonplace
(08:25):
that people can be so rude. It was rude and all I said when
I I was like, you know what, just because this is what I want
to do. I was like, it was nice meeting
you and maybe like hope you had a good weekend.
That was it. I used to do that like for
myself. Yeah, that's what I I was like,
I have to do this. For me, maybe the guy was a jerk
(08:47):
or wasn't a fit. It's just kind of how you're
raised, you know? Like I would either say it
wasn't. It was so nice to meet you.
Thank you for the drink. Wasn't a good fit.
Just. Yeah, like you said, just common
polite. I've been on the other side too,
though, where, like, I can tell it's not going to work.
And then I just am uncomfortableand I get out of there and,
(09:09):
like, one guy texted me right away and.
And I said, you know, thank you for the date.
I don't think it's a good fit because, yeah, I could tell that
by the way you zoomed out of theparking lot in your car.
And I was like. Sorry about that.
Yeah. But then he went on to like get
all angry and be rude on text and I was like.
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
Angry people also, even when I didn't do anything wrong.
(09:30):
But maybe I just said, oh, it's not a good time.
I have little kids. This week is not going to work
for me. Yeah.
And then the whole, you know, well, why are you even on the
app if you can't make time? And I, I just think it's
different if you're a widow and you're a full time mom, then if
you're divorced and you maybe have that week off or some days
off where you can play on dates.But I never really had that.
(09:53):
And so sometimes it's just really hard to juggle.
Well, you kind of feel bad because I'm talking about like
closing it out. Right.
And how many people did you ghost this week?
Oh, no, not any, but I had one the one guy that I.
Was the boat. Guy thought the Colorado.
Didn't Oh, this is a guy I mean I met a while ago in camper.
(10:14):
No, I got nuts for so many people and I the guy that I went
to stepping with and he listenedto our podcast and like he's a
nice guy, but I and I never completely cut it off.
I was just like I just didn't feel romantic connection but I
enjoyed the company like 2 stepping and stuff so I never
(10:35):
like. Did he text you recently?
No, not recently. Well, if you go to Don's Depot.
I know it's just I don't have a romantic connection and so and
if he's listening, I'm sorry. That's the hard part.
And like, you know, look, it's going to happen.
Not everyone is going to, you know, be attracted to us and
we're not going to be attracted to everybody.
The issue is how do you handle because obviously he was ready
(10:59):
to go, but he hurt your feelings.
But I do. I've done that too, where I'm
nice to meet you. OK, got to go.
Bye. I did kind of learned that I
can't, I have to say I'm too much of A people pleaser.
And in the beginning, I would agree to a second date, even
though I knew, like in person, right?
Even though I knew. I'm the same way.
(11:20):
I'm the same way. Ready.
For that second date. But I did then learn, realize
that it's kinder to not, you know, lead someone on.
It's kinder to be upfront about.I know, but respond in the app
and and and respond to me and say I didn't feel a connection.
I wish you all the best. Yeah, bye.
(11:41):
And then I you know. Then be an adult about it.
But I remember, Kira, you sayingsomething where like at overtime
you stopped obsessing. Like right now I feel like the
dates are few and far between. Like you really are trying to be
picky about who you go out with.So every date seems like a a
(12:02):
huge deal of like everything is on the line.
Like this could be the one. And I remember you saying you
got to a point where you're like, yeah, I'm not even putting
on makeup. I.
I mean, what are the jokes with me and Brendan in our first date
is that I didn't really dress upor do a lot of makeup or
anything. Yeah, kind of rolled in the way
I've been running around that day and then texted my friends
(12:25):
from the bathroom like, Oh my gosh, this guy's really cute.
And I like, I phoned in something like my my look
because I got tired of. Yeah, just.
Sort of. Well, and I'd kind of wished I'd
done that. Really, we have to get to a
point where it's just like either it's kind of like with
auditioning. You go in thinking, you know
what? If it's mine, I'm going to get
(12:45):
it. If it's not mine, let it.
Go. And you don't because when you
care so much and you want to find that next great partner.
And that's part of the issue too, because we're coming from a
place of having great partners and you want to have that again.
And you put, so you put all youreggs in that one basket.
(13:06):
I'm a I'm pretty guilty of, I think it happened with Oliver
too. I was always the type that if
it's not there on the first day,I'm out.
And I had a, the therapist that I the only one that I really saw
for, you know, that was really good was Cheryl.
And she said some people are a slow burn.
You really do have to get to know some people.
And as you get to know them, they, you know, they turn to
(13:28):
this wonderful person, not necessarily turn into, but you
see all there's like what? He didn't give you the
opportunity to see what a wonderful person you are.
I was guilty of that. And Oliver was part of the
problem because it was immediate.
I saw him in the elevator and itwas, I mean, electricity.
So after that I'm kind of like, oh, I guess that's the way it's
supposed to be. If it doesn't knock me over,
(13:49):
then I can move on. So that's why I've been on
probably over 61st date. Well.
I was about to say in a way, don't you kind of think it's a
numbers game some too? Like the more you go out, the
less of a deal it's going to be that you have a date because
you've been going on a lot of dates and then you can be
pleasantly surprised versus trying to pick the perfect
(14:09):
person look. It's like practicing anything
else. I know.
And I think that's why a lot of us, it's hard and you know it.
It's also hard when you're grieving and you're still in
love with your dead husband. And so it's kind of like I would
do sort of like what Holly is doing.
Like I would have like a few weeks where I would try and go
(14:31):
on some things and then you haveto take a break.
And then I would talk myself back up until like, let's go
back out and see what's out there.
Let's try again. And.
Remind us, how many guys did yougo out with and kind of start a
relationship with before Brendan?
I would say 2. OK.
And that's in. One was somebody I named from my
past or how long and then the other one was maybe about seven
(14:55):
months, but that was interestingabout that one was it just never
progressed the. Forward.
Guy or or I'm not going to say who it is or the other, the
lawyer, right? I remember once I met Brendan,
things were progressing with himthe way I remember progressing
with Frank. Like some of these men you meet,
they're not really ready, and sothey want to just have someone.
(15:18):
And it's nice for a while just to have a partner to go out to
dinner with and, you know, go see concerts or whatever.
But I was really looking for that progression.
Like, are my feelings growing orhis feelings growing?
Or you've talked about your relationship stalling out for a
while now. Now you're rowing.
Now you're leaning in. Well, and this guy's defense,
and God knows he needs one. He's also a widower.
(15:41):
He may be quasi dating too. Like not sure he he's ready for
The Who knows? Yeah.
Right, spit it. And and say, look, you were
exactly who he was looking for. And it freaked him out and he
couldn't handle it and he's not ready.
So he got the check and he ran. So that was red Porsche.
She was red Porsche and his dog.Zoomed away, but think of
something. Like though, you don't know, I
(16:03):
mean, he is. I mean, hey, he's if you're kind
of new to it still and you're around the same amount of time
being a widower, he may have waited a long time to date too.
By at the end of the day he was rude.
He was woe. There's no don't be rude if
you're going to go out there, don't be gross, recognized,
legal, typical for everybody andjust be kind.
Well, I had one funny thing happened that made me realize
(16:25):
that guys can be kind of mean. There was one day.
I may have said this before, buthe drove up in a souped up car.
It's like $150,000 car. And I was like, great, not my
type. I like low key quiet and kind of
mysterious like Oliver. So we go to the bar at Ichiko,
we're sitting there and he's ordering all this stuff for me.
And I was like, wait a minute, Ihave an opinion on what I want
(16:46):
to order. So one of my friends texted me
at the same time, sending me an order.
And he was being so arrogant thewhole time, talking about
himself and about his career. And he clearly had done very
well and how he and his wife do this thing where they nest in
the house. Have y'all ever heard of that?
Yeah, that's all the kids. Don't have to move.
Right. So they, he was telling me all
(17:07):
about that, but my friend was texting me and he's like, what's
that text for us? And she's only telling me this
like really particular thing to get to Uchiko that I'd had with
her. And I couldn't remember the name
of it, just said it. And he was like, who's that?
And I gave her name. And the joke is he was like, Oh
my gosh, how do you know her? And I was like, she's been over
a really long time because her husband is my boss.
That was the most fun night. Because after that, that man
(17:30):
straightened up and he was like kissing my ass the rest of the
day, yeah. Well, thank you for sharing
that, Holly. I know it sucks.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm happy to.
You, I just don't have the time to.
I mean, that's why I was so mad.I was just like driving home,
like. Damn it, Toby.
(17:51):
Like, like, just so pissed off, I know.
I don't know, being alone doesn't sound like the worst
thing in the world to me. When it comes to if you have to
settle, that's that's something I'm not willing to do.
We had a. A listener.
I think she just DNS us on Instagram.
But she was talking about how she was thinking about dating
(18:13):
again and she was excited. It was a guy from her past.
And she was really writing in toask like, how did you you know,
did you keep it a secret for a while?
How did you address it with the kids?
But she said she's really excited about the butterflies
and having a crush and. She was on the insiders and that
(18:34):
and that. Was that's one of the things
that I try to remember of like, yeah, we're not going to have
the same relationship that we had.
And in some ways it can be better because we don't have all
the child resentment. Like you didn't give this kid a
bath for, you know, four years of his life, you know, or
whatever. You dropped your bags and went
and played basketball. No one else, just me.
All right. Anyway.
(18:54):
Oh. Like where is she going with
that? Can I ask you a question?
Yeah, so I did go on a date about a month ago and I didn't
ask a lot of questions with thisguy.
He was really nice and had greatconversation.
But the one thing I somehow missed that I usually know
beforehand, he got texted why? He said I'm sorry that I have to
do this because I have a kid at home.
(19:15):
And I was like, uh oh, that's a big no for me.
He has a 12 and a 14 year old. And I was like Nope.
How did I miss that? I mean, I am finally nitty
nester. The last thing I want to do is
he some. And so I said, he said, you look
funny right now. And I was like, oh, I'm not
hiding it well, am I? And he goes, no, he goes, what's
(19:35):
the problem? I said I if I always just kind
of decided that I don't really want to date someone who has
children and I'm right now because I am nitty nester at
yeah, ever. But I said I just don't have any
interest in and if I want to be gone for a month or two months,
I want that person to be able tocome with me.
And he said, well, I'm not looking for a mother for my
(19:59):
child. I said that, well, that's good
because I mean, I certainly don't want to do that.
I mean, I love kids. I really do.
Love kids but. Yeah, 13 years of doing this by
myself, the last thing I want todo.
And people don't seem to understand that like we've done
it alone. Yeah, it is hard.
I am worried. Down that no one else.
Can really relate. They can't relate to it.
(20:21):
And the divorcees, most of them get a break.
And after 13, I mean, he was only 6.
So I'm like, no, I mean, when I told him I said, you know, my
husband died when my son was six, he still looked at me like,
I don't get it. I'm not going to have you go to
basketball games or soccer gameswith me.
Did the day end after I just? Think he'd appreciate the
honesty? Yeah.
Oh, he did. He was actually, he said.
(20:43):
I, I just was surprised, he said.
You seem like such a person that's really into being a
mother. I said, oh, I am.
I mean, I sidestepped most of what I wanted to do in my career
and other things because I love him and I wanted him to be OK, I
said, But I don't have that in me anymore.
I don't have it in me to sacrifice anymore.
I'm ready to do what I want to do.
(21:04):
If that makes me sound selfish, then I guess I am.
I don't think it's selfish, it'sjust that's your.
Truth. You know what, right?
You have to set your boundaries about what you want I think.
Even for anybody that has kids, whether they're widowed,
divorced, single parent, you're,you're in whatever like age your
kids are, you're like in that phase, if that makes sense.
(21:27):
Yeah. So you're in the baby phase,
you're in the toddler phase, you're in the school phase,
teens, college. And it is, I think just as
another layer of complexity. If someone's in a different
phase, a phase that you've either already done, don't want
to do it again, or a phase that you don't understand, like, oh,
applying for colleges, bending my child off, things like that.
(21:50):
You know, if somebody with younger children doesn't really
understand the difficulties around my partner as a junior in
high school, right? I've sent 2 to college.
I've been through that process. I've got one left and I'm trying
to advise him a little bit with his one who is a junior.
And even he watched me go through all that with my big
(22:11):
kids for the most part or no. I just think it's hard until
you're there, you know? And right now, him and his ex
are like freaking out about SAT Probably all the things that I
went through right with my with my older kids.
It's hell on earth. I mean, the right now applying
to college is it's so hard on the kids.
It's hard on the Bears. And yeah, and then he's dealing
(22:34):
with the ex who I don't know at all.
So that. I find that so fair thing.
Five years in and you still havethat's.
A lot saying though need her coming in and acting like y'all
are friends or trying to talk with you like.
I think it was more difficult when my stepdaughter was younger
because she really was like 12 or something.
(22:55):
And I was, you know, as a mom. I just didn't understand that.
But I have now let this go because it's not my call.
So she is not watching my children.
She's not doing anything with mykids.
So it's not really I've kind of,and now, you know, my
stepdaughter's older. Well, I have a question for you,
Whitney, because somebody, I sawthem ask you this online and you
(23:17):
addressed it, but I think we'd do it on air.
Someone was asking you about when you were dating.
Like, how did you, like, when did you decide to tell the kids?
You could say the same thing here.
Like, when did you decide to tell them to just sneak around
for a while? Because that's a big deal.
Like when you've got littles at home, Like does, like when do
you, like, do they catch you when you're, you know, coming
(23:37):
out of the bedroom? OK.
I was lucky because early on we were driving to school.
This is where anybody could drive and we're driving to
school and one of the kids is telling me a story about I don't
know about. Her.
Friend whose dad's girlfriend, blah blah blah blah blah.
And so it gave me an opportunityto be like, look, I'm not there
(23:59):
yet, but when I do decide that Iwould like to date, do you guys
want to know about it or would you rather me just keep it under
wraps until it's something? To talk.
About and they were like. Keep it under wraps.
They did not want to know. So I was lucky in that I had had
this conversation just accidentally.
(24:21):
And so I didn't feel like I was keeping anything from that.
And I would say I'm going to go out with friends when really I
was just going out with on a date or, you know, I didn't ever
have anyone. Ryan didn't spend the night at
my. House while I don't.
Even know I would go to his house 'cause some of the time my
mom was still living with me. Remind us how old they were,
because that I mean, the oldest was.
(24:43):
High school oldest was 14 when Hunter died.
She was just going into her freshman year and then my boys.
Were. Going into 6th and 7th grade.
When they're really little, you have to worry about them
thinking everybody they meet, it's going to be their daddy.
But when they get a certain age,they realize.
They said that I had the whole because Karis was only 5 and I
(25:05):
didn't date right away either, but I had the whole like, I
can't have this, the kids attached to someone who's not
the right person. Exactly.
So I definitely waited a long time before anybody knew I was
dating. I was always, I was going out a
lot with my girlfriends. I'd get a sitter.
(25:26):
I guess it was like mommy's not out with her girlfriends.
And if I had a date, I would geta sitter.
But yeah, I waited a long time and.
Then I mean I think. It's just.
You figure it out along the way.There were a couple times I went
on a date and my oldest at the time, let's say she was 17 or 16
or 17, knew about it. But my youngest did not, you
(25:50):
know, the other two didn't know somehow, like I had to, maybe
she was babysitting and I had totell her I'm going.
She was older. She was the oldest.
And so by the time she was like,you know, junior senior in high
school, she knew. And we actually got in this
family argument recently becauseit came up I had dated this guy
from Argentina and they had see it spoken Spanish to my oldest,
(26:12):
who's fluent and. Karis was like.
All of this was going on behind my back, but that was a very
brief, brief relationship. But I agree, I'm being serious,
there's no point in a don't feel'cause this woman was feeling
guilty for not sharing and her kids were like I think 16 and
17. They were much older.
They're dating, so they know thesigns of dating, right?
(26:35):
But there's no reason to feel guilty because unless you're in
love with the person and you really want to make them part of
their life, you don't need to tell them anything and nor do
they really want to know why. Like you said, why get them
attached to someone if you don'teven know where it's going to
go? And that's kind of why.
I mean, Ryan and I have been dating for four years, but it
(26:56):
hasn't. It's just been in the last six
months that we've leaned in. But part of that I didn't want
him around the kids 'cause I hadno idea what it was going to
look like. And and same thing on his end.
And he had a much more complicated situation 'cause he
had an ex. It was very alive and a little
malicious. And so I hope I, well, she's
(27:19):
never going to hear this, but I hope I never meet her.
I hope I never have to be involved because then you become
part of this weird toxic relationship.
I don't want any part of it, no Sir.
I tell you the the only thing I remember about dating the writer
was little, 'cause I started dating is through.
I guess it was three years then,so maybe it was a little over
two, maybe it was probably 2 1/2.
(27:40):
Anyway, he was still pretty young, so he's 7:00 or 8:00 at
this point. But I was, you know how I think
it was match or it was one of those where there's a lot of
faces and you choose or something like that.
He came in and I pretended it was a casting.
Call I was doing. Because I was I can't tell like
this is hot ride. This is this is guided homeless
(28:01):
guy. But 'cause I I wasn't ready to
tell him. So how did you know?
I was in the field business? So I kinda was lying.
Yeah, how, how did you have thatconversation with him or how did
you ease this person in? And he also had children.
Like we got. Engaged a year and a half in I
think. And so we started dating three
years after Oliver died, so exactly 3 years and dated not
(28:26):
quite 2, just under 2. And I can't remember if I told
him we were getting. I mean the engagement was a
surprise and I knew we were going to get married, but the
engagement itself was a surprise.
Oh, I know what how they met now.
OK back up. I have a friend that has a house
in Jackson Hole. And so her boyfriend at the time
and my boyfriend, their kids knew each other and they were
(28:50):
friends. So here we are all in Jackson
Hole going skiing together. And it was.
So it's truly one of the most fun times I've ever had dating
somebody because I was with him and she had her boyfriend.
Yeah, our kids got along great. And so we had this massive, we
skied all day and, you know, drank wine and ate dinner every
night. And I was like, this is how I
(29:10):
thought, this is how it's going to be, right?
Date. This is, you know, this is how
dating we're going to be on thisside.
Oh, that's not how it also worked out.
But you know, the kids, you knowthings over time just and I, I
truly believe in a way you're right about not meeting the X
because that poison that comes in, because that was an issue.
Like the poison that comes in from someone who's hates you and
(29:32):
has never met you. It says not nice things about
you and they or met you because they're unhappy.
That's exactly the position I met.
Yeah, and poison, you're right. And when their their children
are involved, you have no control over what is being told
to these kids about me, about you.
That can destroy a relationship before you even have a chance to
(29:53):
have one. I will.
Say this, I had a conversation with his son, whom you know,
obviously very well, and he was very sweet.
And I just said, you know, that I didn't break up your parents
just so, you know, several years.
I mean, he'd had a relationship before me.
And I said, so I hope you'll just know that I'm not trying to
replace your mom. I'm just trying to be another
(30:13):
person who supports you and whatever it is you choose to do
with your life. So I felt like I was being
supportive and did all those, but over time when things chip
away at you over and over and over.
It's almost too much. It's any the chances of your
relationship surviving. Would have never.
I kept saying that if we move inthe same house, it will not make
(30:36):
it because I can't have someone coming at me all the time
because I'm already still fragile.
I'm fragile enough that I can't handle.
And like, even I've had people tell me now that there's still
things that I'm not willing to, you know, I'm having a harder
time, you know, attaching to thepeople because I don't want to
have to feel any more pain than I've already been through, You
(30:57):
know, that I've lost my mom and you know, that has its stuff.
And then my dad is grieving. It's a lot.
And it used to pile up after a while.
And I just want to enjoy my lifeor what life I have left.
I want to be able to enjoy it inthe way I want to.
And I am. I kind of like my freedom.
Yeah. I never thought I would like
yours. To jump clean on that date about
(31:19):
where you're at, Yeah. And be honest with yourself and
be honest with him. And the truth is, like, we
haven't really talked about thismuch, but blending is a lot
trickier than it looks on the Brady Bunch.
I just thought I could love. I'm like, I'm a parent.
I've got three kids, Arby's scoop, this one in and love,
love, love. But there are all these things
(31:42):
that you don't have control overthat whole other, if they're
divorced, that whole other parent.
You know, this may or may not relate to a widower and a widow
getting together, which might bea better scenario, although you
know, there's complications there as well.
I'm sure if your listener and you're out there on that
journey, we could probably do a whole other.
(32:03):
Show I'm glad you say that because I kept thinking is it me
not being accommodating? Is it me just like being patient
and I just thought, you know it really I was just so much I
still was in deep. That's one of the things that I
have to look back and think thatwas still too soon for me.
It was three years in and then five years by the time that was
(32:23):
over. And I remember it took it, it
took years before I could ever really want to date and be
excited about it because it just, I don't know.
I, I think, I don't know. I think I was ready.
The right of. The reason we all decided to
date I think, or at least I can speak for me because I started
dating fairly quickly after he died.
(32:43):
Part of it is just how quickly it was the next day.
My pants were all checking. The pulse and the We left to
tease Whitney about this, but itwas days.
That's it. I was.
Hey, you know what? There's no judge.
It was mine. Not been there.
It would only a few months. But now y'all made me lose my
(33:04):
train of thought. I'm sorry.
What was I saying? It's a way to It's not
necessarily that you're ready for love, it's that you're tired
of the pain you are like, I justwant a distraction.
Mean, you know, drinking did some of it, but you can't kiss a
wine bottle. Well, you I am.
Well, actually, well, you know, it's the oxytocin, you're in the
(33:25):
dopamine, you're chasing that like serotonin because it comes
with new love. You know, when you, me and
somebody knew that's hot and keep you're kissing this and so
you feel that feeling for a while, but then that tapers off
and then you're left with oh gosh, now I've got a try to make
a relationship work and I still haven't dealt with all of this
back here. I mean, I only had therapy for
(33:46):
one year. She had retired.
That's why I want you guys to meet her.
Yeah, we're. She's so wonderful, but abruptly
had to retire because of all thethings going on in her life.
And I was not at all ready to not have no.
And I tried several others on and, you know, one of them, it
just never was great after that.And so I felt like there were
(34:07):
still some things that didn't get quite then they probably
are, they're still not quite resolved well.
That. 13 years later, sorry to depress everybody.
No, I think everybody is on their own path and it takes some
things. Some people work through really
quickly, and then other things it takes them a little bit
longer. But in some ways you're so much
(34:28):
farther along than any of us, you know?
And then in other ways, we may be a little bit farther along
than you. But I think the key is to
recognize for me and for anyone,maybe it's like some of the
relationships are just a distraction.
Some of them are. I just want someone to hold my,
you know, touch my body. I just want like hepagonship.
(34:51):
I, I mean, you're, oh, you're right, used to sleeping next to
someone every night and suddenlythey're gone and it's very
lonely. And I realized nobody was.
I had no intimacy in my life. You know, I just was missing
connection. Yeah.
And so some of it is just wanting that.
And then you have to recognize. Or is this a life like something
(35:12):
more? Well, and hopefully this is
helpful for the listeners because that's what we really
want is like, just be true to yourself.
Pay attention to some of these signs and feelings.
Am I just distracting myself? Do I really, what are you know,
I was always checking back in with myself.
What are my feelings? Is this someone I can see myself
with? Am I just filling the void,
(35:33):
wasting my time, all the things.So what do you, how are you
feeling now Holly, in terms of are you just going to, are you
going to go on some more dates or are you just going to take a
break? I don't really optimistic.
I'm not necessarily optimistic. I mean, I'd rather just meet
somebody through a friend next weekend 0.
(35:54):
That's right, we're. Spending Valentine's Day
together and I think I spent my first Valentine's without Toby
with y'all. But where did we go?
We went to The Four Seasons, Yeah.
And I. Feel like.
And we met you, right? After the group, it was around
Valentine. It was probably right after
(36:15):
there. Were Jeffrey's figure, which I
was going to mention earlier. Apparently we did.
Now we don't. Now we don't like Jeffrey's.
No, I like Jeffrey's. I mean, hey, red Porsche guy
can. Show up Jeffrey's and run into
him and. I love him to run into all of
us. Well, clearly he's.
Not doesn't frequent. He didn't know that you needed a
reservation. I would love to tell him more
(36:37):
about me. Just so, OK.
Well, on that note, we appreciate you guys.
If you haven't already, join ourFacebook group, the Every Widow
Thing Insiders. A lot of widows and widowers are
communicating with each other. They're helping each other,
guiding each other, asking questions.
We also get in on it. So it's a good place to go if
(36:59):
you want more community. And we just want you to know
you're going to you're going to do great.
We're all doing our best. You're going to get through
this. And I just posted something
today. You can cry in your bathroom
when you when you're overwhelmed.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.