March 3, 2025 • 28 mins
Every Widow Thing enjoyed a super staycation at the charming Poppy Round Top Airbnb, just an hour and a half from Austin, Texas. Over Valentine's Day weekend, they dove into Mel Robbins' inspiring new book, The Let Them Theory.
Listeners can expect a heartfelt and relatable discussion as the podcast explores how this book resonates with the widow community, tackling the pressures of people-pleasing and the importance of releasing control.
With personal stories and laughs, they share how embracing the "let them" mindset empowers them to reclaim their lives and pursue dreams without the weight of judgment. This episode offers a fun and uplifting conversation, reminding listeners to focus on their own happiness and let others do their thing!
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Welcome to Poppy Round Top
Introduction to the staycation and the setting for the podcast episode.
00:00:21 - Mel Robbins' The Let Them Theory
Discussion about Mel Robbins' new book and its relevance to the hosts.
00:01:38 - Insights from the Book
Exploration of key insights from the book and their application in daily life.
00:02:55 - Vulnerability and Control
The impact of vulnerability on relationships and the desire for control, especially in the widow community.
00:03:47 - People-Pleasing Tendencies
Discussion on the tendency to please others and the stress it causes, particularly for women.
00:04:41 - Empowerment Through Letting Go
The empowering message of the book and the challenges of letting go of control.
00:05:56 - Navigating Widowhood
How the book's concepts apply to the experiences of widows and their journeys.
00:07:07 - Judgment from Others
Addressing the judgment widows face from others regarding their choices and timelines.
00:09:21 - Awareness of Control
The importance of recognizing what is within one's control and what is not.
00:10:30 - Expressing Feelings
The significance of expressing feelings rather than suppressing them to avoid resentment.
00:12:24 - Finding Balance
The need for balance in caring for oneself while supporting children through trauma.
00:14:59 - Friendship Dynamics
Reflections on friendships and feelings of exclusion after loss.
00:16:30 - Setting Boundaries
The importance of setting boundaries in relationships and personal well-being.
00:19:06 - The Role of Change
Understanding that change in others can only happen when they are ready.
00:20:38 - Parenting and Control
The struggle of controlling children's lives and the realization of their independence.
00:22:38 - Self-Confidence Through Responsibility
How allowing children to take responsibility fosters their self-confidence.
00:25:24 - The Power of Letting Go
The transformative power of letting go of control and expectations.
00:27:05 - Taking Back Power
The importance of reclaiming personal power after loss and trauma.
00:28:00 - Overcoming Fear of Judgment
The journey of overcoming the fear of what others think and pursuing personal dreams.
00:29:07 - Final Thoughts on Dreams
Encouragement to follow one's dreams and the freedom that comes from letting go of others' opinions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You found us. I'm glad you did, but I'm sorry
you had to. So come sit in on our widow
circle where trauma beats humor and we remind you that you can
not only survive, but thrive. This is every widow thing.
Hey guys, and welcome back to every widow thing.
We are taking a little staycation about an hour and a
(00:24):
half from Austin, TX at the Poppy Round Top, Sweet Holly's
adorable Airbnb that is so charming and so relaxing.
We're here over Valentine's Day weekend and today we want to
talk about Mel Robin's new book called The Let Them Theory,
(00:46):
which I've been following her podcast for a while.
And then when the book came out,funnily enough, my fiance
Brendan kind of beat me to it and downloaded on Audible.
Go, Brendan. I'd like his perspective.
So he was talking to me about it, and I was like, Oh my gosh,
that was on my list over Christmas.
(01:07):
And I didn't, you know, I knew it was coming out and I had
forgotten. And so then I downloaded it and
I started listening. For all of you Audible fans out
there, I'm a listener because I'm always doing, I'm cleaning
or I'm walking the dogs or I'm shopping or I'm unloading the
dishwasher and I'm doing laundry.
(01:27):
And so I'm more of a listener unless I'm on vacation.
So I downloaded the Audible and then asked our Every Widow Thing
group to do the same so we coulddiscuss it here at Poppy and.
It's through chapter 5, I'm sorry.
Couldn't stop listening to it like like, it's so good.
(01:48):
Driving in her car around. And.
Driving around and driving. Around if you haven't heard of
it or heard of her or followed any of her podcasting or her
insights on Instagram, I think there's a lot of good insights
for for everyone. But what you said when we were
talking earlier in the car, likeit's everything we know, but we
(02:11):
just. And this is very simple.
This let them, and I've used it multiple times since listening
through chapter 5. To.
Part of the boat now I've used it too, like with my mom and
with my son. And I mean, it just makes you
stop and think about it. Belle talks about the guy behind
(02:35):
her on the plane coughing. It's really all about what you
can and can't control, right? And I went into, like, discuss
this book because I felt like itspoke very specifically to the
widow community in terms of justlike shifts and relationships
that happen and big life events.And then also this vulnerability
(02:59):
that we all have and trying to make sure that we're not getting
taken advantage of and that we know exactly what's coming
because we were blindsided by the death of our husbands,
etcetera, etcetera. When I was reading this book,
what really resonated with me was that whole idea of what I
don't want anyone to be mad. I don't want anyone to think
badly of me. I it's the classic and, and I
(03:20):
hate to say, but it I feel like it's true.
Women do it way more than men, you know If y'all raise that,
yeah it it. It's like we don't want to hurt
someone's feelings. I bend over backwards to make
other people feel. You're a total people pleaser.
We all are, but. You're, I mean Whitney.
I don't want anyone to be think I'm a bad person or something.
(03:41):
I don't ever want them to think that I think I'm better than
them. But.
I think that so many of us do that waste so much energy and we
get so stressed out worrying about whatever it is things that
are out of our. Control, right?
As a widow especially 'cause you're like laying in bed at
(04:03):
night going, you know, what if my kid fails his class or what
if my, it's it for me? A lot revolves around the kids
because that's where you will the most control, you know,
especially when we all had sudden death, I started feeling
like I needed to have more control.
This, this book can be so freeing, but it doesn't happen
(04:26):
overnight. And yesterday I was getting in
my head again about like, why can't I just let them?
Why can't that? I was having an imaginary fight
for two hours, you know, and then it didn't even end up
happening. You know, the best part of what
I took away from the book, whichis so empowering is that there's
so many things that I want to doin this, like whatever is this
(04:46):
chapter of my life because emptynesting or whatever bird, you
know, bird launching, free bird,free bird, y'all call her.
But there are a couple of thingsthat I really wanted to do that
I'm scared because it means putting myself out there.
I thought she addresses that. She's like, like first, what are
you afraid of? Like we should ask for of all
(05:07):
people, all of their all our listeners, what do we really
have to be afraid of? We've already had one of the
worst things that can happen to a person, right happen.
So hey, check that off. And we're still here, we're
still thriving and still are probably still surviving at this
point. And that's fine.
But they know that years down the road, if they look at us,
(05:28):
we're we're doing more than surviving.
We're thriving. But it gave me kind of that push
I needed to go. You're right, I keep putting off
one more day to doing some of these things that I've been
scared to do. And quite frankly, the podcast I
know is out of some of our comfort zones and we.
Did it? How scared we all were to start
(05:49):
this. Nobody wanted wants to get on
hear and bare your soul and talkabout hard things and talk about
personal things, emotional things and loss and your kids
and your dead husband and your in laws and yet like you all got
over it. I mean, I was so worried, like,
this person's going to listen and what are they going to
(06:10):
think? That made me, when I was reading
the book, think a lot about how I felt starting the podcast.
How it applies to widowhood whenyou are trying to navigate this
new normal and everyone's givingtheir opinion or they're judging
you on what you're doing. Oh, you're dating.
It's been too, it's too soon. Or oh, you're going to sell your
(06:33):
house. Oh, you're going to keep his
car. Oh, you haven't gotten rid of
the like? Aren't you going to date yet?
Let's get you on the dating app right now.
Where is your new guy? I mean that too.
And why are you still talking about it 13 years later?
Right. Well, they didn't come back.
Just so you know, they aren't going to.
So that was had what I had to say to a family member who was
(06:56):
like, I thought in 13 years thatyou probably wouldn't be talking
about it. And I said, well, they didn't
come back. So it's still I'm still living,
still a. Part of your life.
You have a new person, Whitney and Kyra.
You know this. But does it?
Does it take away from the loss that you still?
Had you know, the let them part is stop worrying about you
(07:16):
cannot control and we've talked about this in an earlier episode
like Kira, you call it your pileof shit, their pile of shit.
I had used the yard, you know, scenario or whatever.
You only have control over your pile of shit.
You only have control over your yard.
You cannot control what anyone else thinks about you.
And in the book she she shares astory about a kid who wants to
(07:38):
go to a birthday party or in a weekend.
And also the grandmother wants to see them.
So they try to compromise and doboth.
And the grandma was still mad that they didn't come in sooner
and the friend was still angry that they left early.
But the point is, when you spendtime trying to control other
(07:58):
people's thoughts about you, you're never going to win, No.
And as a widow, I especially early on, especially when I was
trying to navigate the finances and stuff, and Hunter's father,
who is so sweet, but he is a financial guy, which is where
Hunter got all his budgeting skills.
You know, he was like, what are you going to get out of this
house When what are you going tosell his car like you got to
(08:21):
get? But he was coming from a place
of, I want you to be financiallysecure and not spending money on
things that are unnecessary. But I was still in a very
emotional state of this is his car and I want to sit in it and
I want to listen to the music that he was listening to.
And I want to drive around in it, you know, and this is the
home where our last home we had together.
(08:43):
And I'm not ready to give it up yet, but it caused me anxiety
because I worried about what other people were thinking, You
know, hasn't she sold the house?Why hasn't she gotten rid of the
car? And even now, I just finally got
rid, I hate to say got rid of, but I, I finally got Hunter's
clothes out of the closet. Since I've started listening,
(09:03):
I've been trying to say, let them, let them.
It's not, it's not an overnight thing.
It's an it's starting the awareness of oh, I actually
don't have control over this. I feel like a lot of the let me
part it's it's really the important part to me because
it's OK to let some, let's say, let them but it.
But if you were sidestepping, how you?
(09:26):
Really feel about. Something and not speaking up.
That's when people get angry when they just stuff the
feelings they're like I'm so madat such and such.
Don't stuff it down. Say your piece to let them is
great. Let someone just have their
thing, but then let me, you know, speak up for yourself.
Honestly, they're going to thinkwhat they're going to think
anyway. Even friends that you know are
(09:46):
going to have their own opinionsabout what you're doing you.
Know it says something in the book like there's people you
care about that are thinking badthoughts about you right now and
you're thinking bad thoughts about them.
And I thought that was really freeing because, yeah, to get
back to the let me, for me, whenI was widowed, that was just a
(10:12):
seismic shift. And I think it would be for
anyone in their life. For me, it was just massive
because my husband was killed, Iwas mangled and horribly
injured. My child was injured.
My other two kids were bereft when the accident happened.
I was, I was forced into this, what Mel talks about and she
(10:33):
talks about trauma and all that.Yeah, I was forced into this
mode out of Let them let the town judge me if I can no longer
show up the way I used to show up for my kids.
Let them judge me if I buy something, you know, for myself
or a new car. And they're going well, I
(10:53):
thought her husband died. And how could she afford that
big car? Or let them worry about whether
or not I'm out on a date or theycatch me in town.
I mean, the town's small enough they catch me out on a date.
Oh, well, how long was the husband dead?
The dead. Oh, what's going on?
I feel like in the beginning I didn't worry about it as much as
when time went by I started worrying about what people
(11:15):
thought more. Well, you're in shock for, you
know, the first year. You're not really thinking
clearly. Yeah, true.
I. Had a period of time where I
tried to just give myself grace.I had a friend from high school
who came and when I was in the hospital and just said whatever
happens from here on forward, because she was basically like,
(11:40):
you are, you're going through it.
This horrible thing happened to you and your sweet children and
just whatever happens next. And I was probably spiraling
even in the hospital, even on drugs.
I was like, what's going to happen here?
This one's got that lesson, thatone's got dance, that one's got
soccer. That was who's keeping up with
the lawn, you know? So then when I got out, I find
(12:02):
some balance for myself because I kind of knew intrinsically and
I think Mel would agree with this.
And like it's like you've alwayssaid, Laci, like you have to put
your own oxygen mask on 1st. And so even though the kids came
first there, they were in therapy before I was in therapy.
All their routine was maintainedbefore I really got back into a
(12:25):
routine. Like everything was for the
kids. I obviously was overloaded and
needed to balance that with moments of just getting away or
just having some fun or just like point out at night and just
getting a break. And so I gave myself a lot of
grace and I think that was my let me moment.
(12:45):
That was let me do what I need to do.
To well, people are going to talk no matter what, so you
might as well do what you need to do because they're going to,
I mean, I told. Y'all and let them.
And let them. Yeah, and they told.
Y'all with the lady, it was so freeing when she said this
because everybody's always worried about your finances when
you when your husband dies, suddenly he was the one making
(13:08):
the money. I mean, all of us had husbands
that were predominantly making, you know, the bigger paycheck.
And so the CEO of the company, my husband used to work for his
wife, and I'd gotten to be good friends.
And she came over one day and she said, how's it going?
I was like, I am so tired of people coming to me asking how
I'm doing. Like, is your money OK?
Does it really get into your business?
(13:29):
These were people that did not care really about if I was going
to be OK. They were really just trying to
get in my business. She said, just tell no, it's
not. Let him write you a check.
Oh, that's good. She said, that'll shut him up so
fast. And I thought, I am going to do
that the next time because people do, they're going to
judge no matter. Like I went and got a new car,
but they don't. They didn't know that Oliver and
(13:50):
I had actually already bought a much nicer car and I as soon as
he died, literally we were at the car dealership.
It was like not even a week prior, I went and downgraded the
car to the to the smaller version of it because I was
like, no, I don't need a bigger car Now.
It's only two people, but I felta little bit judged.
I'd you know that car was totaled.
(14:11):
This so so Holly, you also were telling us to to get on board
with this this. Book.
What resonated with you? There's so.
Many different. I mean, it's interesting 'cause
I do remember a group of friends, I was always included,
nine times out of 10 included and, you know, invited to
(14:32):
dinners with, you know, husbandswith their husbands, which I'm
grateful for. But I do remember one time that
I found out after the fact that a group of friends went on a
trip together with their husbands, right?
I wish that had. Toby been alive?
(14:53):
You know, I probably wouldn't have.
I mean, we. I don't know.
Yeah. They didn't even tell me they
were going. And then I found out they all
went on a trip and I was like, really hurt.
But now I look back and like, who cares?
Let them. They love me and I don't know, I
don't know why I was so. It's helping me a lot with my
(15:15):
family because that is really where I try to control people.
Oh well, it's helping me with mymom.
Sorry mom, but. The whole point I think of the
let me theory is it it stops resentment.
If you want to behave that way, I will allow you to.
(15:35):
I will let you behave that way. It doesn't need to impact me in
any way. It doesn't need to.
I don't need to spiral on it. I don't need to think about it
for days. I will let you behave that way
or react that way or respond that way.
It's actually very kind. And I still ask them to because
the one thing that when I was raising writer, I remember very
(15:57):
young remembering this because, you know, my family dynamic was
very different growing up. I wanted my son.
I wanted to know who he really was because I knew, and I were
talking about this in the car today, Whitney, that it was
important to me when I raised him that he was who he's really
going to be. Whatever's happening in the
world, he's going to give me hisopinion on it.
And if it's something I don't agree with, but that's letting
(16:19):
them, he has a right to his opinion and let me allows me to
have my opinion too. And we can still coexist.
I wish that we could have this in the country that we live in
today. Like why can't we find a way to
be more compromising instead of being so hateful?
And that's what I feel like thisbook is about, not compromising
(16:42):
your beliefs, but being more. Open and that's reactive.
That's we're reacting to someoneelse.
We don't need to. And be compassionate.
Maybe they're reacting in a way because of something they've
been through, like a trigger, right?
Because something that triggers me may not even.
Even register. To Holly.
I loved that chapter in the bookabout where she talks about
(17:05):
trying to change other people and she uses the example of like
her friend whose husband is not exercising and he's on the couch
eating bad food and watching sports, whatever, instead of
getting fit. And then she's like going on the
Peloton in the house and gettingfit and she's worried about him,
right? It it could boils down to her
(17:27):
fear that he's not healthy. But she had referenced some
specialists that she consulted when writing the book who say
that nine times out of the 10, this was really good for me to
hear. She was saying, the more you,
it's proven, the more you nag. And this is just a good reminder
(17:47):
because we all know this. The more you nag someone to
change their ways, the more theydig in.
And that's what you were just saying.
Like the more someone tried to control your behavior, tell you
what you should and shouldn't do, the more you were like, fuck
off. I don't want to do that.
I'm going to do it my own time. And that was a really good
chapter for me because I think in my new relationship, I'm
still looking for things that I had before.
(18:09):
I'm still looking for things that I could change about my
partner. But at the same time, I
absolutely love him and I need to back off and I need to let
him make those changes in his own time.
It's his choice. Well, and also like she says,
what, what was it like? Adults are only going to change.
(18:31):
I mean, they want to change and I mean, and that kind of goes
back to the widow thing. Like, you know, I was the one
that like I got to get out of bed.
I have to go exercise. I you know, I could have stayed
in bed. Then no one can.
I was the only one that could dothat, yeah.
(18:51):
Well, that's addiction that goesback to like addiction.
And Kier and I have both had experience with addiction in our
families. And you learn very early on, we
don't have it doesn't matter. You can rationalize, you can
talk, you can, you know all of the things and it's until they
are ready, they won't, they are never going to change and and
(19:13):
difficult one. It's so hard.
And I noticed that I the kids, right?
We all feel, of course, we all love our children.
But because they went through such a trauma, I feel like it
heightens our need to control you.
Want it to be the best? Yeah, right.
(19:34):
You want it all is everything ismaking a difficult relationship
between me and my child. What's the fine line between a
child and an adult and your child is 19 or.
Twin let let me part. Me, I know, but you're still
like. Well, I had a good example for
(19:57):
that. She kind of touched on it and
this really rang out my head because Ryder, I don't think he
would mind me sharing this. He does therapy and well, a had
an epiphany in therapy. He wasn't going to continue
therapy. He hated it.
He's like I, I've already done this.
It was regular talk therapy and his anxiety and and it's not
school anxiety. I was like, what is it?
If it's not school anxiety, whatis it like?
(20:18):
Because. Everything in your life.
And he said, you know what I learned in theatre, which I was
so glad he stuck with it becauseI told him, I said, if I'm
paying the bills, feel like I should be able to influence part
of your life while I'm still paying for things because there
were things that he wanted to doright.
I said, well, if you want to do this, I would appreciate if you
would continue therapy. And he said that when he went
(20:38):
there, he said what I found out was that I had been, this is
where he, his anger came in. And y'all can really relate to
this. His anger came in because he had
been spending a lot of his youngyears, you know, particularly
middle school, high school, not standing up for himself, people
at school or whatever. And he said I was angry about
it. He said because I was trying to
be perfect because I didn't wantto create more trouble for you.
(21:01):
And I said, isn't that ironic for mom, for mom.
And I was trying to create the perfect little world for him.
Like almost like putting bubble wrap around him and trying to
make sure everything at home wasOK, he had the right food.
And I thought if I did all theseperfect things, then he won't
have to suffer any more losses. And the joke is he was like, I
was trying to be perfect for you.
(21:22):
You were trying to be perfect for me.
And we were both miserable. And she points that out very
clearly in the book. You can not try to create a
perfect world for them. They are going to have to make
mistakes. They're going to have to.
I mean, she dresses the little kids too.
That's obviously very different,but.
She also talks about blended families and stuff which I think
was interesting. I have.
You know, a teenage stepdaughter, so she's 17, so
(21:46):
she's still a child for sure. And I think at one point she
says 25. Well before 25 your brain's not
fully formed, so you can make some pretty bad choices even at
my age. But I said some of these
parents. Fly.
Am I like still am I still, you know, putting the bill till 30?
Like what are what's going on here?
My last therapist that I had before I stopped doing therapy,
(22:10):
which just was like 2 years ago or something.
She said boundaries, which is really what this is right?
Setting some boundaries. The letter is the boundaries.
And she said boundaries are not about what you will allow them
to, you know, to do. It's about what you will allow
(22:30):
yourself to do. So when you go, like, Holly,
when you asked, where's the line, you have to ask yourself,
like, my kid was failing all of her classes.
And, you know, my therapist was like, look, it doesn't.
And I wanted to be supportive and I wanted to help.
But at the same time, I don't want to keep footing the bill
for FS and and also I didn't want to throw her out to the
(22:53):
wolves if she's mentally and emotionally not ready.
But what my therapist said is you set the boundaries.
So basically it boiled down to I'm willing to pay for your all
of your living and food and all of that and school if you can
maintain. I didn't even say like an AB
(23:14):
average. I was like, if you could just
pass your class, I will. My boundary will be that I will
pay for these things. And what was crazy is that when
I finally actually did what she said, Sydney failed her classes
and then she had to take on her own bills.
And for the last year, she's been paying all of her own bills
(23:37):
and she has so much more confidence.
Yeah, it's amazing. She's amazing.
You you assume that your child, they can't handle, oh, they
couldn't handle school, so they can't handle getting a jaw some
of them don't want. I mean.
Colleges are for everyone. Exactly.
And Mel would say stop enabling.Stop.
Yeah, let. Them have some failures and then
(23:59):
they'll figure it out. And well, she also now has skin
in the game she's having becauseif she wants to have nice things
or be able to pay for rent, she's got to work now she's
doing. And it gives her confidence as
and two things happened that were amazing. 1 is that our
relationship changed immediatelybecause I was no longer
resentful that I am paying moneyand she's not doing her part.
(24:24):
Like I was so angry or to do what I wanted her to do didn't
have anything. I was so angry about that and it
really hurt our relationship. And she was so disappointed in
herself or didn't want to, you know, was upset that I was
disappointed that then she triedto stay away so that it made our
relationship better. But the bigger thing is that it
gave herself confidence because she realized I am paying my own
(24:48):
bills. I am working 40 hours a week at
a steakhouse busting my butt. More confident.
She knows that she can do it, and now she's in her second
semester now at Community College, and she's making
straight A's. Even in math.
You guys, wow. Even in math?
Awesome. Well, that's why.
I'm like, wow, I couldn't do that.
(25:09):
Who she was at 18 is very different than who she is now at
22. And the 22 year old is ready to
focus and get down and do the work.
And by the way, if she didn't want to go to college, we told
her a million times. We it's just, it's just me.
But I still say we sometimes anyway, you and me, Whitney, me
(25:30):
and Holly, we could talk about this book forever and a day.
There's so many good tidbits in here.
Kira, why would you want widows and people grieving and with
loss? Why would you want them to read
this book? Oh gosh, I really enjoyed just
being able to take back the power.
You know, when this horrible thing happened to me and I felt
(25:53):
like I had lost all control of my life.
I wish I'd had like this theory or this book to tell me it's all
in. It was all in my control.
Even when I was in the hospital kind of flailing, even when I
was going through rehab, when I even when I was going through
surgeries and learning how to walk again and learning how to
(26:13):
drive again and learning how to take care of my kids again.
It was all, it was all up to me,but I should have just blocked
out everyone else and anything else.
And all that was important to meat the time was getting better
and my kids. And, you know, just being told
that that was OK. I think, I think I just needed
to hear that that was OK. Pedro's about us on those
(26:36):
things. What about you?
Well for me I've always been like so worried about.
What? Other people think, you know,
like even the podcast, like, I don't want to talk about that.
I don't want somebody to judge me.
I mean, I can remember Toby saying, who cares what people
think? But I've always worried about
(26:57):
what other people think. And it's made me back up and say
let them think whatever they want.
Right, because they're going to anyway.
There's nothing you can do aboutit.
You know, they I would learned agood saying.
I remember this in high school. Well, they said you wouldn't
worry so much about what other people think if you knew how
little they did. Right they're.
About themselves, the main take away from me was that she kept
(27:19):
saying, what's that dream that you have?
She at the very end of the book she says let them, she said, but
let me tell you to go find your dream.
Go follow your dream. And I loved it.
It was like if someone needed permission, Mel just gave it to
you. If you could just get rid of
that concern of what other people think, you would take so
(27:40):
many more risks. I know I'm a good person, so why
do I care if someone else doesn't see it?
Just go out and do it. And.
Someone. Will like you do.
There'll be some that will and some that.
But even, like she said, and we'll end on this, even your own
family who loves you to death still has terrible thoughts
about you sometimes, Yeah.
You found us. I'm glad you did, but I'm sorry
you had to. So come sit in on our widow
circle where trauma beats humor and we remind you that you can
not only survive, but thrive. This is every widow thing.
Hey guys, and welcome back to every widow thing.
We are taking a little staycation about an hour and a
(00:24):
half from Austin, TX at the Poppy Round Top, Sweet Holly's
adorable Airbnb that is so charming and so relaxing.
We're here over Valentine's Day weekend and today we want to
talk about Mel Robin's new book called The Let Them Theory,
(00:46):
which I've been following her podcast for a while.
And then when the book came out,funnily enough, my fiance
Brendan kind of beat me to it and downloaded on Audible.
Go, Brendan. I'd like his perspective.
So he was talking to me about it, and I was like, Oh my gosh,
that was on my list over Christmas.
(01:07):
And I didn't, you know, I knew it was coming out and I had
forgotten. And so then I downloaded it and
I started listening. For all of you Audible fans out
there, I'm a listener because I'm always doing, I'm cleaning
or I'm walking the dogs or I'm shopping or I'm unloading the
dishwasher and I'm doing laundry.
(01:27):
And so I'm more of a listener unless I'm on vacation.
So I downloaded the Audible and then asked our Every Widow Thing
group to do the same so we coulddiscuss it here at Poppy and.
It's through chapter 5, I'm sorry.
Couldn't stop listening to it like like, it's so good.
(01:48):
Driving in her car around. And.
Driving around and driving. Around if you haven't heard of
it or heard of her or followed any of her podcasting or her
insights on Instagram, I think there's a lot of good insights
for for everyone. But what you said when we were
talking earlier in the car, likeit's everything we know, but we
(02:11):
just. And this is very simple.
This let them, and I've used it multiple times since listening
through chapter 5. To.
Part of the boat now I've used it too, like with my mom and
with my son. And I mean, it just makes you
stop and think about it. Belle talks about the guy behind
(02:35):
her on the plane coughing. It's really all about what you
can and can't control, right? And I went into, like, discuss
this book because I felt like itspoke very specifically to the
widow community in terms of justlike shifts and relationships
that happen and big life events.And then also this vulnerability
(02:59):
that we all have and trying to make sure that we're not getting
taken advantage of and that we know exactly what's coming
because we were blindsided by the death of our husbands,
etcetera, etcetera. When I was reading this book,
what really resonated with me was that whole idea of what I
don't want anyone to be mad. I don't want anyone to think
badly of me. I it's the classic and, and I
(03:20):
hate to say, but it I feel like it's true.
Women do it way more than men, you know If y'all raise that,
yeah it it. It's like we don't want to hurt
someone's feelings. I bend over backwards to make
other people feel. You're a total people pleaser.
We all are, but. You're, I mean Whitney.
I don't want anyone to be think I'm a bad person or something.
(03:41):
I don't ever want them to think that I think I'm better than
them. But.
I think that so many of us do that waste so much energy and we
get so stressed out worrying about whatever it is things that
are out of our. Control, right?
As a widow especially 'cause you're like laying in bed at
(04:03):
night going, you know, what if my kid fails his class or what
if my, it's it for me? A lot revolves around the kids
because that's where you will the most control, you know,
especially when we all had sudden death, I started feeling
like I needed to have more control.
This, this book can be so freeing, but it doesn't happen
(04:26):
overnight. And yesterday I was getting in
my head again about like, why can't I just let them?
Why can't that? I was having an imaginary fight
for two hours, you know, and then it didn't even end up
happening. You know, the best part of what
I took away from the book, whichis so empowering is that there's
so many things that I want to doin this, like whatever is this
(04:46):
chapter of my life because emptynesting or whatever bird, you
know, bird launching, free bird,free bird, y'all call her.
But there are a couple of thingsthat I really wanted to do that
I'm scared because it means putting myself out there.
I thought she addresses that. She's like, like first, what are
you afraid of? Like we should ask for of all
(05:07):
people, all of their all our listeners, what do we really
have to be afraid of? We've already had one of the
worst things that can happen to a person, right happen.
So hey, check that off. And we're still here, we're
still thriving and still are probably still surviving at this
point. And that's fine.
But they know that years down the road, if they look at us,
(05:28):
we're we're doing more than surviving.
We're thriving. But it gave me kind of that push
I needed to go. You're right, I keep putting off
one more day to doing some of these things that I've been
scared to do. And quite frankly, the podcast I
know is out of some of our comfort zones and we.
Did it? How scared we all were to start
(05:49):
this. Nobody wanted wants to get on
hear and bare your soul and talkabout hard things and talk about
personal things, emotional things and loss and your kids
and your dead husband and your in laws and yet like you all got
over it. I mean, I was so worried, like,
this person's going to listen and what are they going to
(06:10):
think? That made me, when I was reading
the book, think a lot about how I felt starting the podcast.
How it applies to widowhood whenyou are trying to navigate this
new normal and everyone's givingtheir opinion or they're judging
you on what you're doing. Oh, you're dating.
It's been too, it's too soon. Or oh, you're going to sell your
(06:33):
house. Oh, you're going to keep his
car. Oh, you haven't gotten rid of
the like? Aren't you going to date yet?
Let's get you on the dating app right now.
Where is your new guy? I mean that too.
And why are you still talking about it 13 years later?
Right. Well, they didn't come back.
Just so you know, they aren't going to.
So that was had what I had to say to a family member who was
(06:56):
like, I thought in 13 years thatyou probably wouldn't be talking
about it. And I said, well, they didn't
come back. So it's still I'm still living,
still a. Part of your life.
You have a new person, Whitney and Kyra.
You know this. But does it?
Does it take away from the loss that you still?
Had you know, the let them part is stop worrying about you
(07:16):
cannot control and we've talked about this in an earlier episode
like Kira, you call it your pileof shit, their pile of shit.
I had used the yard, you know, scenario or whatever.
You only have control over your pile of shit.
You only have control over your yard.
You cannot control what anyone else thinks about you.
And in the book she she shares astory about a kid who wants to
(07:38):
go to a birthday party or in a weekend.
And also the grandmother wants to see them.
So they try to compromise and doboth.
And the grandma was still mad that they didn't come in sooner
and the friend was still angry that they left early.
But the point is, when you spendtime trying to control other
(07:58):
people's thoughts about you, you're never going to win, No.
And as a widow, I especially early on, especially when I was
trying to navigate the finances and stuff, and Hunter's father,
who is so sweet, but he is a financial guy, which is where
Hunter got all his budgeting skills.
You know, he was like, what are you going to get out of this
house When what are you going tosell his car like you got to
(08:21):
get? But he was coming from a place
of, I want you to be financiallysecure and not spending money on
things that are unnecessary. But I was still in a very
emotional state of this is his car and I want to sit in it and
I want to listen to the music that he was listening to.
And I want to drive around in it, you know, and this is the
home where our last home we had together.
(08:43):
And I'm not ready to give it up yet, but it caused me anxiety
because I worried about what other people were thinking, You
know, hasn't she sold the house?Why hasn't she gotten rid of the
car? And even now, I just finally got
rid, I hate to say got rid of, but I, I finally got Hunter's
clothes out of the closet. Since I've started listening,
(09:03):
I've been trying to say, let them, let them.
It's not, it's not an overnight thing.
It's an it's starting the awareness of oh, I actually
don't have control over this. I feel like a lot of the let me
part it's it's really the important part to me because
it's OK to let some, let's say, let them but it.
But if you were sidestepping, how you?
(09:26):
Really feel about. Something and not speaking up.
That's when people get angry when they just stuff the
feelings they're like I'm so madat such and such.
Don't stuff it down. Say your piece to let them is
great. Let someone just have their
thing, but then let me, you know, speak up for yourself.
Honestly, they're going to thinkwhat they're going to think
anyway. Even friends that you know are
(09:46):
going to have their own opinionsabout what you're doing you.
Know it says something in the book like there's people you
care about that are thinking badthoughts about you right now and
you're thinking bad thoughts about them.
And I thought that was really freeing because, yeah, to get
back to the let me, for me, whenI was widowed, that was just a
(10:12):
seismic shift. And I think it would be for
anyone in their life. For me, it was just massive
because my husband was killed, Iwas mangled and horribly
injured. My child was injured.
My other two kids were bereft when the accident happened.
I was, I was forced into this, what Mel talks about and she
(10:33):
talks about trauma and all that.Yeah, I was forced into this
mode out of Let them let the town judge me if I can no longer
show up the way I used to show up for my kids.
Let them judge me if I buy something, you know, for myself
or a new car. And they're going well, I
(10:53):
thought her husband died. And how could she afford that
big car? Or let them worry about whether
or not I'm out on a date or theycatch me in town.
I mean, the town's small enough they catch me out on a date.
Oh, well, how long was the husband dead?
The dead. Oh, what's going on?
I feel like in the beginning I didn't worry about it as much as
when time went by I started worrying about what people
(11:15):
thought more. Well, you're in shock for, you
know, the first year. You're not really thinking
clearly. Yeah, true.
I. Had a period of time where I
tried to just give myself grace.I had a friend from high school
who came and when I was in the hospital and just said whatever
happens from here on forward, because she was basically like,
(11:40):
you are, you're going through it.
This horrible thing happened to you and your sweet children and
just whatever happens next. And I was probably spiraling
even in the hospital, even on drugs.
I was like, what's going to happen here?
This one's got that lesson, thatone's got dance, that one's got
soccer. That was who's keeping up with
the lawn, you know? So then when I got out, I find
(12:02):
some balance for myself because I kind of knew intrinsically and
I think Mel would agree with this.
And like it's like you've alwayssaid, Laci, like you have to put
your own oxygen mask on 1st. And so even though the kids came
first there, they were in therapy before I was in therapy.
All their routine was maintainedbefore I really got back into a
(12:25):
routine. Like everything was for the
kids. I obviously was overloaded and
needed to balance that with moments of just getting away or
just having some fun or just like point out at night and just
getting a break. And so I gave myself a lot of
grace and I think that was my let me moment.
(12:45):
That was let me do what I need to do.
To well, people are going to talk no matter what, so you
might as well do what you need to do because they're going to,
I mean, I told. Y'all and let them.
And let them. Yeah, and they told.
Y'all with the lady, it was so freeing when she said this
because everybody's always worried about your finances when
you when your husband dies, suddenly he was the one making
(13:08):
the money. I mean, all of us had husbands
that were predominantly making, you know, the bigger paycheck.
And so the CEO of the company, my husband used to work for his
wife, and I'd gotten to be good friends.
And she came over one day and she said, how's it going?
I was like, I am so tired of people coming to me asking how
I'm doing. Like, is your money OK?
Does it really get into your business?
(13:29):
These were people that did not care really about if I was going
to be OK. They were really just trying to
get in my business. She said, just tell no, it's
not. Let him write you a check.
Oh, that's good. She said, that'll shut him up so
fast. And I thought, I am going to do
that the next time because people do, they're going to
judge no matter. Like I went and got a new car,
but they don't. They didn't know that Oliver and
(13:50):
I had actually already bought a much nicer car and I as soon as
he died, literally we were at the car dealership.
It was like not even a week prior, I went and downgraded the
car to the to the smaller version of it because I was
like, no, I don't need a bigger car Now.
It's only two people, but I felta little bit judged.
I'd you know that car was totaled.
(14:11):
This so so Holly, you also were telling us to to get on board
with this this. Book.
What resonated with you? There's so.
Many different. I mean, it's interesting 'cause
I do remember a group of friends, I was always included,
nine times out of 10 included and, you know, invited to
(14:32):
dinners with, you know, husbandswith their husbands, which I'm
grateful for. But I do remember one time that
I found out after the fact that a group of friends went on a
trip together with their husbands, right?
I wish that had. Toby been alive?
(14:53):
You know, I probably wouldn't have.
I mean, we. I don't know.
Yeah. They didn't even tell me they
were going. And then I found out they all
went on a trip and I was like, really hurt.
But now I look back and like, who cares?
Let them. They love me and I don't know, I
don't know why I was so. It's helping me a lot with my
(15:15):
family because that is really where I try to control people.
Oh well, it's helping me with mymom.
Sorry mom, but. The whole point I think of the
let me theory is it it stops resentment.
If you want to behave that way, I will allow you to.
(15:35):
I will let you behave that way. It doesn't need to impact me in
any way. It doesn't need to.
I don't need to spiral on it. I don't need to think about it
for days. I will let you behave that way
or react that way or respond that way.
It's actually very kind. And I still ask them to because
the one thing that when I was raising writer, I remember very
(15:57):
young remembering this because, you know, my family dynamic was
very different growing up. I wanted my son.
I wanted to know who he really was because I knew, and I were
talking about this in the car today, Whitney, that it was
important to me when I raised him that he was who he's really
going to be. Whatever's happening in the
world, he's going to give me hisopinion on it.
And if it's something I don't agree with, but that's letting
(16:19):
them, he has a right to his opinion and let me allows me to
have my opinion too. And we can still coexist.
I wish that we could have this in the country that we live in
today. Like why can't we find a way to
be more compromising instead of being so hateful?
And that's what I feel like thisbook is about, not compromising
(16:42):
your beliefs, but being more. Open and that's reactive.
That's we're reacting to someoneelse.
We don't need to. And be compassionate.
Maybe they're reacting in a way because of something they've
been through, like a trigger, right?
Because something that triggers me may not even.
Even register. To Holly.
I loved that chapter in the bookabout where she talks about
(17:05):
trying to change other people and she uses the example of like
her friend whose husband is not exercising and he's on the couch
eating bad food and watching sports, whatever, instead of
getting fit. And then she's like going on the
Peloton in the house and gettingfit and she's worried about him,
right? It it could boils down to her
(17:27):
fear that he's not healthy. But she had referenced some
specialists that she consulted when writing the book who say
that nine times out of the 10, this was really good for me to
hear. She was saying, the more you,
it's proven, the more you nag. And this is just a good reminder
(17:47):
because we all know this. The more you nag someone to
change their ways, the more theydig in.
And that's what you were just saying.
Like the more someone tried to control your behavior, tell you
what you should and shouldn't do, the more you were like, fuck
off. I don't want to do that.
I'm going to do it my own time. And that was a really good
chapter for me because I think in my new relationship, I'm
still looking for things that I had before.
(18:09):
I'm still looking for things that I could change about my
partner. But at the same time, I
absolutely love him and I need to back off and I need to let
him make those changes in his own time.
It's his choice. Well, and also like she says,
what, what was it like? Adults are only going to change.
(18:31):
I mean, they want to change and I mean, and that kind of goes
back to the widow thing. Like, you know, I was the one
that like I got to get out of bed.
I have to go exercise. I you know, I could have stayed
in bed. Then no one can.
I was the only one that could dothat, yeah.
(18:51):
Well, that's addiction that goesback to like addiction.
And Kier and I have both had experience with addiction in our
families. And you learn very early on, we
don't have it doesn't matter. You can rationalize, you can
talk, you can, you know all of the things and it's until they
are ready, they won't, they are never going to change and and
(19:13):
difficult one. It's so hard.
And I noticed that I the kids, right?
We all feel, of course, we all love our children.
But because they went through such a trauma, I feel like it
heightens our need to control you.
Want it to be the best? Yeah, right.
(19:34):
You want it all is everything ismaking a difficult relationship
between me and my child. What's the fine line between a
child and an adult and your child is 19 or.
Twin let let me part. Me, I know, but you're still
like. Well, I had a good example for
(19:57):
that. She kind of touched on it and
this really rang out my head because Ryder, I don't think he
would mind me sharing this. He does therapy and well, a had
an epiphany in therapy. He wasn't going to continue
therapy. He hated it.
He's like I, I've already done this.
It was regular talk therapy and his anxiety and and it's not
school anxiety. I was like, what is it?
If it's not school anxiety, whatis it like?
(20:18):
Because. Everything in your life.
And he said, you know what I learned in theatre, which I was
so glad he stuck with it becauseI told him, I said, if I'm
paying the bills, feel like I should be able to influence part
of your life while I'm still paying for things because there
were things that he wanted to doright.
I said, well, if you want to do this, I would appreciate if you
would continue therapy. And he said that when he went
(20:38):
there, he said what I found out was that I had been, this is
where he, his anger came in. And y'all can really relate to
this. His anger came in because he had
been spending a lot of his youngyears, you know, particularly
middle school, high school, not standing up for himself, people
at school or whatever. And he said I was angry about
it. He said because I was trying to
be perfect because I didn't wantto create more trouble for you.
(21:01):
And I said, isn't that ironic for mom, for mom.
And I was trying to create the perfect little world for him.
Like almost like putting bubble wrap around him and trying to
make sure everything at home wasOK, he had the right food.
And I thought if I did all theseperfect things, then he won't
have to suffer any more losses. And the joke is he was like, I
was trying to be perfect for you.
(21:22):
You were trying to be perfect for me.
And we were both miserable. And she points that out very
clearly in the book. You can not try to create a
perfect world for them. They are going to have to make
mistakes. They're going to have to.
I mean, she dresses the little kids too.
That's obviously very different,but.
She also talks about blended families and stuff which I think
was interesting. I have.
You know, a teenage stepdaughter, so she's 17, so
(21:46):
she's still a child for sure. And I think at one point she
says 25. Well before 25 your brain's not
fully formed, so you can make some pretty bad choices even at
my age. But I said some of these
parents. Fly.
Am I like still am I still, you know, putting the bill till 30?
Like what are what's going on here?
My last therapist that I had before I stopped doing therapy,
(22:10):
which just was like 2 years ago or something.
She said boundaries, which is really what this is right?
Setting some boundaries. The letter is the boundaries.
And she said boundaries are not about what you will allow them
to, you know, to do. It's about what you will allow
(22:30):
yourself to do. So when you go, like, Holly,
when you asked, where's the line, you have to ask yourself,
like, my kid was failing all of her classes.
And, you know, my therapist was like, look, it doesn't.
And I wanted to be supportive and I wanted to help.
But at the same time, I don't want to keep footing the bill
for FS and and also I didn't want to throw her out to the
(22:53):
wolves if she's mentally and emotionally not ready.
But what my therapist said is you set the boundaries.
So basically it boiled down to I'm willing to pay for your all
of your living and food and all of that and school if you can
maintain. I didn't even say like an AB
(23:14):
average. I was like, if you could just
pass your class, I will. My boundary will be that I will
pay for these things. And what was crazy is that when
I finally actually did what she said, Sydney failed her classes
and then she had to take on her own bills.
And for the last year, she's been paying all of her own bills
(23:37):
and she has so much more confidence.
Yeah, it's amazing. She's amazing.
You you assume that your child, they can't handle, oh, they
couldn't handle school, so they can't handle getting a jaw some
of them don't want. I mean.
Colleges are for everyone. Exactly.
And Mel would say stop enabling.Stop.
Yeah, let. Them have some failures and then
(23:59):
they'll figure it out. And well, she also now has skin
in the game she's having becauseif she wants to have nice things
or be able to pay for rent, she's got to work now she's
doing. And it gives her confidence as
and two things happened that were amazing. 1 is that our
relationship changed immediatelybecause I was no longer
resentful that I am paying moneyand she's not doing her part.
(24:24):
Like I was so angry or to do what I wanted her to do didn't
have anything. I was so angry about that and it
really hurt our relationship. And she was so disappointed in
herself or didn't want to, you know, was upset that I was
disappointed that then she triedto stay away so that it made our
relationship better. But the bigger thing is that it
gave herself confidence because she realized I am paying my own
(24:48):
bills. I am working 40 hours a week at
a steakhouse busting my butt. More confident.
She knows that she can do it, and now she's in her second
semester now at Community College, and she's making
straight A's. Even in math.
You guys, wow. Even in math?
Awesome. Well, that's why.
I'm like, wow, I couldn't do that.
(25:09):
Who she was at 18 is very different than who she is now at
22. And the 22 year old is ready to
focus and get down and do the work.
And by the way, if she didn't want to go to college, we told
her a million times. We it's just, it's just me.
But I still say we sometimes anyway, you and me, Whitney, me
(25:30):
and Holly, we could talk about this book forever and a day.
There's so many good tidbits in here.
Kira, why would you want widows and people grieving and with
loss? Why would you want them to read
this book? Oh gosh, I really enjoyed just
being able to take back the power.
You know, when this horrible thing happened to me and I felt
(25:53):
like I had lost all control of my life.
I wish I'd had like this theory or this book to tell me it's all
in. It was all in my control.
Even when I was in the hospital kind of flailing, even when I
was going through rehab, when I even when I was going through
surgeries and learning how to walk again and learning how to
(26:13):
drive again and learning how to take care of my kids again.
It was all, it was all up to me,but I should have just blocked
out everyone else and anything else.
And all that was important to meat the time was getting better
and my kids. And, you know, just being told
that that was OK. I think, I think I just needed
to hear that that was OK. Pedro's about us on those
(26:36):
things. What about you?
Well for me I've always been like so worried about.
What? Other people think, you know,
like even the podcast, like, I don't want to talk about that.
I don't want somebody to judge me.
I mean, I can remember Toby saying, who cares what people
think? But I've always worried about
(26:57):
what other people think. And it's made me back up and say
let them think whatever they want.
Right, because they're going to anyway.
There's nothing you can do aboutit.
You know, they I would learned agood saying.
I remember this in high school. Well, they said you wouldn't
worry so much about what other people think if you knew how
little they did. Right they're.
About themselves, the main take away from me was that she kept
(27:19):
saying, what's that dream that you have?
She at the very end of the book she says let them, she said, but
let me tell you to go find your dream.
Go follow your dream. And I loved it.
It was like if someone needed permission, Mel just gave it to
you. If you could just get rid of
that concern of what other people think, you would take so
(27:40):
many more risks. I know I'm a good person, so why
do I care if someone else doesn't see it?
Just go out and do it. And.
Someone. Will like you do.
There'll be some that will and some that.
But even, like she said, and we'll end on this, even your own
family who loves you to death still has terrible thoughts
about you sometimes, Yeah.
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