June 30, 2025 • 28 mins
Many of us live with a form of 'spiritual schizophrenia'—there’s our “Christian life” we experience on Sundays… and then there’s everything else. But Jesus didn’t come to give us a faith that fits into a box. He came to give us his whole life—right here, right now.
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll talk about how to close the gap between your faith and your everyday rhythms—at home, at work, and in your neighborhood. You’ll see how the gospel speaks to all of life and how to live with deeper intention and joy in the Kingdom today.
If you’re hungry to bring greater purpose and integration to your faith—in parenting, relationships, work, and ministry—this is your next step.
One small shift can change everything.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- If your family or church is truly living on God’s mission—or just doing religious things.
- Why the gospel is more than your “afterlife plan”—and how it reshapes everything now.
- Caesar’s personal shift from just attending church to being the Church.
- What it could look like to live as a missionary right where you are.
Get started here... From this episode: “It is not living life in God’s family, empowered by the Holy Spirit for his mission, that burns people out or causes them to want to throw in the towel of faith. It is when we believe the lie that says we can continue building our own version of the American Dream life… pursuing a bigger house, nicer cars, the best of everything—and try and fit in a little “church” or “ministry” that life gets out of whack.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on iTunes. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching and Mentorship in Missional Living by Caesar and his wife TinaMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:01):
Many of us are living with a form of spiritual schizophrenia.
Each of us has the same 24 hours each day, seven days a week.
It's just enough time to jam all of life in and then start again next week.
And I've learned that it is not life lived as God's family of missionary servants empowered by his Holy Spirit for his mission that actually burns people out or causes them to want to throw in the towel of their faith.
(00:26):
It's when we believe the lie that says we can continue building our own version of the American dream life or the European dream life or whatever.
Pursuing a bigger house, nicer cars, better vacations, the best of everything, and try and fit in a little church or a ministry, that life gets all outta whack.
See, we've been given just one life to live.
(00:47):
We can't live two different existences.
Heath Hollensbe (00:59):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Hey, good to be with you again, brother Heath.
(01:21):
What's happening, man?
I don't know what you've done, what sort of magic potion you've poured out upon civilization, but our group is growing.
Like,
Caesar Kalinowski (01:29):
man, stuff is happening.
Okay.
So we had a crazy explosion of members in the podcast group on Facebook.
Right?
Yeah.
Some of them are listening to this right now and some of the other, you know, our long-term listeners are going, yeah, I noticed too.
'cause all of a sudden, where are all these people?
My, you know, my feed is getting blown up.
So, so welcome to the new family members.
Like hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of you.
Yeah.
Like many hundreds.
Yeah.
(01:49):
It's good to have you guys, so I'm really grateful.
Yeah.
And, yep.
Awesome, man.
Well, let's jump into this episode.
Yeah.
Let me set the tone for this episode today, uh, because we're gonna talk about how our faith and life all fit together, but not in this weird, schizophrenic way.
Okay?
Yep.
And I wanna start by saying, like, reminding us, there's this, there's this old, it might be, I think it's true, it might be focal, but, uh, Vince Lombardi, thisfamous football coach, he would start off every season at the first training session holding out a ball in front of him, and he would say to his players, gentlemen.
(02:19):
This is a football.
And he always took them back to the basics often and as a way of going forward.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Like, like, Hey, we're not gonna get better unless we remember what's this all about?
This is a football, you know?
Yeah.
And so today we're kind of doing something similar, partly 'cause we got a whole lot of new guests, you know, joining us.
Sure.
And new members and folks and family hanging out.
(02:40):
But also 'cause it's just kind of time to say, you know, family, this.
Is the life.
You know, this is the gospel, this is a football, you know, so that's what we're gonna do.
Yep.
Heath Hollensbe (02:50):
You know, and I love that you started off with the term spiritual schizophrenia, because it does seem often that our Christian life, right?
We have this Christian life, and then we have a regular life that get lived out in different boxes and they're usually separate.
And one thing that we've really fought hard for, that's the
Caesar Kalinowski (03:04):
definition of schizophrenia, is like.
Uh, you know, I have this personality and then, but now switch it over here.
Yeah.
Frank showed up, you know, might have a niece that she was always referred to her by her middle name when she was kind of in a bad mood.
Okay.
Different word was used, but you know, it's like, oh, so-and-so's here.
You know, it feels like
Heath Hollensbe (03:21):
that, right?
Like you've got the Christian side, you've got the regular side.
And one thing we really try to.
To push through is how do we incorporate the gospel, the good news of Christ in a holistic sense.
Not, not this.
Yeah.
All of life.
Yeah.
It's not like we go to church and turn on worship for an hour and then we go live the rest of our lives lives in a different way like everybody else, but we wanna see the gospel affect every area of our lives.
(03:42):
Do you really still believe that this
Caesar Kalinowski (03:44):
is possible?
I absolutely do.
And like I was just saying, we got a whole lot of new friends that were, you know, they believed it and then they gave it a try this week, so that was awesome.
Yeah.
But you know, you're right.
One of the, one of our overarching goals of the podcast is to look at how faith can be integrated into all of life, family, work, ministry, all one life together without it being weird.
Yep.
(04:04):
You know, and or us getting burned out by it.
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
So, you're right, I use that term spiritual schizophrenia.
Because we do, we try to live these two separate lives.
And I don't think on paper anybody's like, oh, no, I'm a different person.
But I, I, you know, I can just, I'll speak for myself.
Okay.
Yep.
Many, many, many, many, many years of being a Christian and it was like, and Sunday's over and I did that and checked the box and it wasn't like I chucked my faith.
(04:29):
I don't believe in Jesus, you know, the rest of the week.
But I really didn't give it a whole lot of thought.
Sure.
And then.
If we were doing some sort of a campaign at church to like, make sure you share your faith three times this week or something, you know, like hand out a track or something.
I might, you know, I might get on, you gotta get in on that.
But it wasn't really like, wait a minute.
Every bit of life has an opportunity to see like the thing behind the thing and the gospel and what, what the good news is.
(04:49):
Like what's true of God and what's he done like that, that anchors his character in our lives.
Yeah.
In scripture, in our own lives, in the past, what's true of us in our identity there, there's so much good news and.
As we grow in our gospel fluency, that's a term we use a lot, right?
Yep.
This ability to speak and, and experience the good news and everything.
Um, we start to realize that, oh, that's so core to making disciples as a lifestyle.
(05:12):
It's like, like, let's just put ourselves in lots of normal rhythms of everyday life and then let's let the gospels like ooze out and be good news.
Sure.
And that that's not just through our actions.
That's.
Both actions and words.
And I know some people lean towards like, I'd rather display the gospel.
You know, what's the old thing of like, you know, preach the gospel and use words if you must.
It's like, no, you gotta use words, you know?
(05:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Preach good news.
It, it has to be proclaimed.
How will they know if they don't hear?
But it also has to be lived out, otherwise people say bs.
I don't believe you.
Yeah.
Because I look at your life and you look just like everybody else all week.
Yeah.
But then you say, oh no, I, I go to church though.
Or something like, okay, what is that?
The bar?
I, I hope so.
So yeah.
I really do think it is still.
The reality.
(05:53):
And that's why I, you know, I tell people all the time, like of all the content we produce and put out, I love our podcast 'cause I love getting to say let's talk about anything.
Yeah.
And let's talk about the thing behind the thing and how the gospel speaks into it.
And we get to,
Heath Hollensbe (06:04):
so, and it's cool hearing the feedback from people that go, I never would've connected those, those two dots in that situation, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski (06:10):
Love it.
Heath Hollensbe (06:10):
Uh, one thing that we talk a lot about on the show, and we're actually getting a lot of questions from people even this week, is you keep using this word Missional and throwing it around.
And I've heard it used this way and I've heard it used this way.
Yeah.
I had a buddy the other day tell me.
Yeah, we're really Missional family.
Like we're, we try to be at church three or four times a week and then we got bible study and I'm like, yeah, I think you got the wrong, wrong word going.
It's hard to believe.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:28):
We're still having to define it.
Heath Hollensbe (06:30):
Yeah.
But maybe we go back.
It's kind of come
Caesar Kalinowski (06:31):
around the wheel a few times now, I think.
Yeah.
And I don't know that we've ever said like, what is Missional per se?
Right.
Let's do it.
So I don't, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna claim to go like, here's the definitive, you know, there's actually a Wikipedia post on Missional, you know, or something.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And some people like argue and they're like, anyway, so the word Missional, let's just break it down for a second, has something to do with the Missional a mission.
(06:53):
So it's like being focused on the mission.
Mission null, right?
Yeah.
So what's the mission of the church?
What's the primary focus?
In fact, the only mission the church has ever been given, Jesus, our king Lord savior, brother.
God of the universe, creator of all things.
He gave us the mission.
What's, you know, you know what I'm talking about?
What's the mission?
Get people to church on Sunday mornings.
(07:14):
I'm just kidding.
Go and make disciples.
Yeah.
Go and make disciples.
That's the only mission.
Now we get to go to church and we love being together as the family.
Heath Hollensbe (07:21):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:22):
Or I hope you do.
You know, sometimes, you know, I mean, you should, you get to Right.
But the mission is make disciples who make disciples so.
If let's just say like, is this is this group of mine or is my family like you just mentioned Missional, or is this church really Missional?
Well, if it's not making disciples who make disciples, then it's not Missional.
(07:42):
Right?
So a small group that gets together and studies the Bible like crazy.
Good on you.
Study the Bible.
It's not Missional because you call it that.
Or because, well, we did a service project last year.
That's just being a That's good.
That's being a survey.
Yeah.
Missional is like our focus.
Everything we do is about making disciples who make disciples.
Yep.
Helping people move from unbelief to belief in absolutely every area of life.
(08:02):
Right?
So here's another thing too, and this is gonna cut deep for some folks.
If Discipleships a department in the church.
You know?
Yeah.
Which it isn't a lot of, then it's probably not a Missional church.
'cause they see it as like, well, well, it's like an appendage.
It's one little thing we do.
Heath Hollensbe (08:16):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:16):
Like children's ministry, men's sports ministry, discipleship, like, no, no, no, no.
The only reason the church exists, and I mean church is people, and then therefore our functional church as structure exists, is to carry out Jesus' mission.
To make disciples who make disciples to do what?
To fulfill God's eternal purpose.
Mm-hmm.
To fill the world with his glory.
(08:37):
So if it's, if it's a department Mm. It's probably not.
'cause it's, it should be every, every, uh, everybody on staff, every elder, every deacon, everybody who goes there.
Like, what's our goal?
Uh, what's our mission?
It's to make disciples.
Right?
Yep.
If it's one person's responsibility to manage and spearhead discipleship for the whole church Hmm.
Then it's probably not particularly Missional.
(08:57):
Yeah.
That's helpful, man.
You know, now.
That's part of it, right?
Yeah.
That's just part of it.
So that's, you know, it's like, and, and, and I think everybody's gonna say, Nope, we're all about it.
We totally are all about discipleship.
Let me see your budget.
Let me see how much time you give to that.
Heath Hollensbe (09:11):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:11):
Every week.
Yeah.
And we'll know it changes things.
Yeah.
Our budget, our pocket, and our calendar will tell us the truth.
It just Absolutely.
I'm not here to tell anybody.
They are.
They're not.
But you know, look.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (09:21):
But show us the paperwork and we'll tell you.
Yeah.
So then the other thing that we talk about a lot is this concept of Missional communities.
We hit that almost every, uh.
Almost every episode with something along the lines, and you call whatever
Caesar Kalinowski (09:31):
you want.
But we use that term a lot.
I like it still.
Yeah, I really do.
I know some people are like, oh, it's a bad word now.
Everybody got freaked out on it, you know?
And some people, they really were, and they, they kind of lumped, Missional, and then therefore Missional Community and all that stuff.
They kind of lumped it in with some other movements that were going on about a decade ago or something, and it's like, no, we're notchucking the gospel and doctrine and all, you know, we're just gonna actually really focus on the thing Jesus said to be focused on.
(09:54):
So.
Heath Hollensbe (09:55):
So how would you define like a Missional Community?
Compared to what might be more of a traditional small group that we've all pretty familiar with in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:04):
Uh, okay.
So again, let's come back to like if, like, uh, in my experience, the most of the small groups that I've been a part of and, and some of they were great, some of them were great, some of 'em not so great, but just being honest.
But, um, the focus of the small group was primarily on.
Us.
Hmm.
Like what we wanted to do and hang out.
(10:24):
And it was kind of a way to close the back door of the church.
'cause it was, you know, as churches got bigger and bigger and bigger, often in America, people were like, I don't know anybody.
So small groups were an invention to close the back door and make you feel like you knew someone.
Otherwise, it's just too easy to go across the street 'cause they got the new youth wing or like, I like that pastor's hair better.
I think it's got way better hair, you know, better
Heath Hollensbe (10:42):
concerts.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:42):
Yeah.
And so.
So small groups had a certain goal in mind, but they weren't necessarily focused on, okay, how do we make disciples who then make more disciples?
Mm-hmm.
Which means there's gonna be a very good balance between up.
In and out.
And a lot of our listeners know what I mean by that.
Just vernacular like boom, sure.
But up.
Jesus balance his life up with an upward focus connected to his father, deeply connected to the love of dad.
(11:06):
And, and so we say like, how, how's your up focus, you know?
And, and are you growing into gospel and in, in the truth of who God is and what's true of you now?
And then inward, are we becoming more like family and then outward?
This is one where we often lose it and we fall off the, the Missional train.
We're not really Missional 'cause like, well, we study a lot and we love God and we pray and we like to hang out.
(11:28):
But we really, like, there's no not yet believers hanging around.
None of our lost friends are around ever Exactly like so.
So we lose that out focus of the up in out.
And so part of the difference would be a Missional Community would be people who come together and say, Hey, you know what?
You know why we wanna hang?
'cause we wanna live like a family of missionary servants.
We wanna live on mission extended.
Go back to scripture.
(11:49):
Oikos.
The word oikos was this extended family who like, sure, they had their jobs and they had everything else but the mission of their life, the focus of their life, their words, their budgeting, their timeuse, how they vacation partied, who they hung out with was to make more disciples, help people find and love Jesus, and realize what he had done for them and the life that he had now united them in.
To the Trinity with himself and say, oh my God, now we're one.
(12:11):
Like, you really?
Can you get this right now from the Innerwebs?
And it's kind of helpful, but I'll, I'll tweak it a little as we go.
From the Innerwebs, I found, uh, a definition that says A Missional Community is a group of people about the size of an extended family.
What does that mean?
Right?
Who are united through their identity in Christ around common service and witness to a particular neighborhood or network of relationships.
(12:36):
It's pretty good, I think.
Yeah, it's pretty close.
Okay.
Now a definition that we used in my days of leading Soma, it still really works very, very well for me, and it's a little moreinsider because there again, we teach family missionary servant Disciple, but a Michel community is a committed core of believers.
Mm-hmm.
Parentheses family who live out the mission of God together.
As missionaries sent ones in a specific area or to a particular people group by demonstrating the gospel in tangible forms, that being servants, yep.
(13:04):
And declaring the gospel to others, both those who believe it and those who are being exposed to it.
Meaning discipleship.
So that's like, and the summary would be, again, I've said it a bunch of times today already, we're a family of missionary servants sent as disciples who make disciples.
Yeah.
So hopefully people can do their own compare and contrast to, well, we get together once a month and we study the sermon notes or once a week and we study the sermon notes, but it'll make it a lot.
(13:31):
And then we take the summers off.
Yeah.
And like that doesn't sound like a healthy family, you know, like who are united around the mission and like just going deeper and deeper and deeper into it.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (13:40):
well, maybe you could share a little bit about your story.
Is this something that you've always, uh, like been raised in and believed this for a long time?
Or was Christianity more of a title, uh, or if it was a title, did this switch one day?
When did it switch?
Where, where did you begin developing this sort of thinking?
Caesar Kalinowski (13:56):
Sure.
Well, it's, it's still being developed, you know, it's ongoing, man.
The revelation of how good news the gospel really is and how we get to live just continues to just blow my mind.
Uh, so I was.
There again, you know, long-term listeners have heard pieces of this, but I was raised in a home, uh, where my mom took us to church.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, we were Christians.
(14:16):
Right.
My dad was a priester that, you know, that person who goes to Christmas and Easters Easter.
Easter, yeah.
That's all you know.
And usually not both, but um, I. He, uh, yeah.
He would at best maybe drop us off and pick us up if my mom was working or sleeping or something like that.
She worked second shift, but we grew up and yes, it was a title for us.
We were Christians.
And what did that mean?
That means that you don't do certain things.
(14:37):
It really was the old school, which, you know, I know everybody says, oh, that's, but those days are over.
Mm. Not for about 70% of the church, but it was really, Christianity was a list of rules and stuff you don't do because Christianity was about waiting for heaven.
And in the meantime it was about sin management and behavioral modification.
Yep.
That's what it was.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (14:56):
Same with
Caesar Kalinowski (14:56):
me now.
And that's not even being harsh, that's just looking back as an adult and going.
It was that we were waiting around, we, I set a prayer,
Yep.
Uh, you know, like the Jesus in your heart prayer that you never find, the scripture said that many, many, many times.
And, uh, and then we were kind of just trying not to sin, and it was a heavy burden, you know?
And there was, there was no discipleship.
There was no like.
There was a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit, but like in kinda weird, like, ow sparky ways, not like, Hey, wait a minute, like I have to talk to my wife about something that's a little sensitive and maybe a little prickly.
(15:24):
I need the spirit's help.
You know, it wasn't, it was never practical wise like that.
Um, now jump way ahead.
Okay.
Uh, I, I actually have been discipled and I am now a father and, and I'm actually working.
I'm doing a lot of international mission stuff like traveling around the world, and I end up actually as a missions pastor at a mega church.
It's crazy.
(15:44):
And, um, I, I start going back and forth on these trips and I'm gone for like two, three weeks at a time or more.
And, um, when we're in the field, you know, we're on these trips.
We're actually being the church, like we're with the body.
They don't own anything most often.
They don't have buildings.
They don't have, I mean, like some of 'em have like one.
Clo set clothes.
I mean, you know, we're in Sudan, we're talking about during the Civil War, the walking stick people, they're just dying of starvation.
(16:09):
Sierra Leone and Thailand.
And I've been in Nigeria standing with Christians weeping, literally in smoldering ashes.
Heath Hollensbe (16:16):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:17):
Because the building, they did have got burned down.
God by, you know, militants and wow.
And, and they're just like, God, that's okay.
You know, we are the church, you know?
And I was like, yes, we are.
And then I come home and we're like putting on the big show, you know, and it was like Q camera three, you know?
And smoke.
And a little more light.
A little more light.
Sure.
A little warm up.
Warm it up.
A little, little more yellow.
A little yellow.
(16:37):
And I was like, holy cow, man.
Like, I love my church.
But I just like, I feel like now we're doing church instead of being church.
Sure.
And as we went back and forth and back and forth, it got harder and harder.
I felt.
Talk about schizophrenia.
I felt like.
How come they, you know, when I'm out with these people who are being the church, I feel like I'm, we're the church and we'd like, well forsake anything.
(16:58):
It's the best ever.
And, you know, have you, you ever been on a short-term mission trip?
Heath Hollensbe (17:01):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:01):
Couple of 'em.
Yeah.
You ever, like when you, you, you know, you get back and you feel like, man, that was the best, you know?
Yeah.
Like we had to bear with some people that were a little prickly, but we got through it 'cause we had to.
Yep.
You know?
Absolutely.
And you're like, God, wouldn't it just be great if we could live like that all the time?
Yeah.
And, and we think our only option is like, well maybe I should move overseas.
Heath Hollensbe (17:17):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:17):
Right.
Well, for us.
Where the dime dropped, where the switch was, doing those trips back and forth.
We said, wait a minute, reading the book of Acts, do we get to live like that?
Like what we're experiencing on these short-term trips?
Mm-hmm.
Do we get to live that way here?
Why not?
What's keeping us?
Yeah.
Nothing's keep, I remember I was on one trip, Heath, I was with these people that had nothing.
They had Jesus, and they were so full of joy, bro.
Heath Hollensbe (17:40):
Really?
Caesar Kalinowski (17:40):
They were so full of joy and I mean, they were persecuted.
It was the worst.
And I remember weeping, weeping, praying, Lord, I would give everything I have.
To have the joy they have in you.
Heath Hollensbe (17:51):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:52):
And I swear to God, it wasn't audible, but it almost like the spirit said, well then do.
Wow.
And I was like, I was like the rich young ruler.
I had to hang my head and walk away.
I was like, I, I, I, I don't, I don't even know where to start.
Yeah, exactly.
And so when we moved out to Tacoma and we moved out to Washington, it was beginning of us going like, we don't know how to do it, but we're gonna start learning how we're gonna live like a missionary sent to another country.
Hmm.
Like for instance here, like, work on this with me a little bit.
(18:14):
Okay.
Like, imagine if you will, like we sent you.
And Kathleen, uh, to another country and, um, we're sending you and the kids off to a foreign country to be full-time missionaries.
You're leaving next month, you're fully funded, everything's good to go, and you're being sent there to proclaim and plant the gospel in that village or city or whatever it is, and see new disciples of Jesus.
Remove (18:36):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:37):
Okay.
What are some of the things you think you would, I mean, even if you had no training, just off the top of your head from just being a Christian and maybe doing some short term, what would you start doing?
With some regularity.
Boom.
As soon as your boots hit the ground
Heath Hollensbe (18:49):
Oh yeah.
Start throwing some dinners.
Inviting people over.
Yeah.
Uh, going and seeing 'em where they live.
Hanging out with 'em, hearing their stories.
Get to learn a language.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:57):
Eat where they eat, right?
Yeah.
Drink, they drink ways to serve 'em.
Is there anything we can do to help?
Like literally all, we don't want to just be here to take, we're here to help
Heath Hollensbe (19:03):
study some of the cult, the, their cultural norms.
Like what, what's custom to it might
Caesar Kalinowski (19:07):
change the way we dress.
Yeah.
Might start eating some weird stuff, right.
Uh, right.
Yeah.
All this kind of stuff.
Exactly.
And so.
God said, just go and do that.
Yeah.
So we did and we had to soak in and so at like at 40 I, we moved to Tacoma and I'm like, here we go.
And I remember the hardest part of it was trying to explain to my friends and my family, some of who were supporting us financially.
(19:29):
'cause we didn't, there was no means to support.
Sure.
You know, like, so what are you guys doing?
Like, like my, my folks could understand, you know, and friends could understand when they would see my.
15 foot head on the screens preaching, you know, back at the, at the big church or you know, like, hey, nice office.
And like, they wanna meet my staff and I get a lot of staff, you know, and like, yeah.
You know, they understood all that, but now you're like, uh, we're living like missionaries and like.
(19:52):
Well, let's see.
Last night I went to this metal show because there's these guys in this rock band that we're getting to know, and there's like one believer in the group, but he isn't how to make disciples.
And so we're kind of helping him.
Yeah.
And we're being pals to him.
It's a whole different way.
And then, yeah.
And then we helped this guy move again.
And then this guy's like, there's a homeless dude living with us this week.
I'm not sure how long he'll be here.
He said just for a few days, but it's been a week, you know?
And on and on.
You're like, uh uh.
Now we also had community.
(20:13):
Sure.
And we were studying the word like crazy and we, you know, it was just.
Never been busier kind of thing, but it was very, very different.
So when that started switching and we started seeing people come to faith, yep.
Like Jesus says, if you'll walk in my ways and be my Disciple, then you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free.
And we're like, whoa.
That's 180 degrees outta syn from what we've always done.
Yeah.
So we started
like inviting people to walk in the ways of our life, which we're increasingly his ways, and they were starting to come to the truth of who he was in different areas of their life and believe.
(20:42):
You know, we say discipleship, suppress, and moving from unbelief to belief.
Yep.
They were starting to and then starting to trust him.
And then they're like, that's cool.
Yeah.
I wanna follow this guy and I want him to be in charge now.
Wow.
And what's, what do I need to do to get in?
Like trust him.
That's
Heath Hollensbe (20:55):
amazing,
Caesar Kalinowski (20:55):
man.
That's it.
You know, we have people say like, well, do I have start giving some money now?
I'm like, you can, but you don't have to.
Yeah.
Have to give it to me, you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:02):
Yeah.
So
what about people that are listening to the show right now and they, and it's, and something's bubbling up inside of 'em and they're like, I wanna actually start living more this way, but I don't wanna burn out.
I don't wanna come across like a total freak and not know what to say.
How would you, what, what steps would you burn?
Yeah.
Living like
Caesar Kalinowski (21:17):
a missionary isn't like canal.
I constantly am just handing out tracks and like, just
Heath Hollensbe (21:21):
anointing with oil.
Yeah, yeah.
Everybody
Caesar Kalinowski (21:23):
going nutty it, it, it's actually more than that, but way simpler, you know?
Sure.
Well, um.
I can't obviously teach all the things we teach and train and coach people to Sure.
On the show here today.
But I would, let me, let me try to break it down if I can.
I think living out our faith in all of life and really seeing our life integrated into our faith starts with three things.
(21:43):
Desire,
Heath Hollensbe (21:44):
mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (21:45):
Intentionality.
Because life is really mirrored, like God's just miraculously ordered the wor the way the world works and the rhythms we live in to fit sure like his will and fill in the world with his glory and Disciple making.
Uh, so desire, intentionality.
And then this one may surprise people equipping, like being equipped and equipping others, and that that leads, that's the discipleship part of it.
(22:07):
So, sure.
I would say if you have a desire.
Speak to the first one.
To live with greater intentionality in your life when it comes to your faith and work and ministry and parenting, and being a good spouse, and how it all really gets gospel.
Now's the time to start making a difference.
Don't let your hopes and desires stay.
Just that sort of a dream.
(22:27):
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, oh, well someday, you know, I've been reading this stuff for a long time, but you know, we're just kind of can't wait to do it.
Yeah.
It's like what?
You can begin to experience the good news of the gospel in every area of life today.
Okay.
So one small step starts the journey.
If you have the desire, that's awesome.
'cause believe it or not, a lot of people don't.
They're like, Nope, I'm fine.
I'm just fine the way I am.
Hmm.
I'll go to church that 1.7 times a month or 2.3 or whatever it is.
(22:49):
Check it off.
Yep.
And, uh, back to my American dream life or whatever.
So.
So desire.
Second one is, if you have the desire, then determined to be intentional about what areas in life you wanna improve, and, and I don't mean prove like work, you work hard and prove yourself.
I'm saying like, I want to grow in the gospel in that area of my life.
Sure.
I wanna be more like Jesus in this area.
I. My finances, my generosity, my my words, my tone, the way I, the way people read me and see me being a servant and all that.
(23:18):
So what areas do you wanna improve in and then, you know, and, and get equipped in and grow and lead others in?
Like I can remember really young in life going, I think that God's put it on my heart.
A desire to lead and teach, but I wasn't doing any of it yet.
I was very young in my faith.
Sure.
And I said, Lord, okay, if that's from you, what do I do?
(23:38):
He goes, well, who do you know that you could lead and teach?
I'm like, I don't know.
I know four or five guys in the neighborhood that a couple of 'em claim to be Christians.
A couple, I'm not sure of.
All right.
Start there.
Yeah.
So I went to him.
I said, Hey, you guys wanna start a Bible study with me?
I mean, I didn't know anything.
Sure.
Like there was no Missional nothing.
Right.
I. They're like, yeah, we will.
I had a guy, I had a guy seriously not too long ago, and this is like 25 years ago.
(23:59):
You know, write me go, you know the Bible study we did on X, Y, Z in your living room back in that neighborhood?
I'm like, no, I don't really remember it.
He goes, he goes.
Life changing.
Still the best thing I've ever done in my life.
I refer to it all the time.
Like, you changed my life.
Whoa.
I was like, what?
Yeah, but God was showing me like, get started, right?
Get started.
Be intentional.
Like so I wanted to lead.
God said, there's your spot.
Like be faithful, the little faithful, the lot.
(24:20):
It won't happen accidentally.
It takes really great intentionality, discipleship, and mission.
You've probably heard me say this before.
Discipleship admission is living everyday life, but with increasingly greater gospel intentionality.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the third thing, desire, intentionality, equipping, is once you begin to identify the areas of life you wanna live with greater confidence and intentionality, your next intention step would be get equipped.
(24:45):
Like to do that.
Learn, grow, get the knowledge, skills, coaching if you need it to succeed.
And if, if anybody listening would like to learn more about the coaching and maybe have me help develop a personal roadmapfor them and their family, or their team or church to move toward discipleship as a lifestyle and everyday life, sure.
Or maybe they wanna get started building a Missional Community.
(25:06):
Which is discipleship in every year of life.
All you know.
Yep.
Or if you wanna help lead others in your church into this lifestyle of sub ship, I'd love to be your coach and help you with that.
There's not a ton of spots when we open 'em up, they usually fill right up.
So, you know, you hear this, you can go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching and learn more about it and how it all works and, you know, get registered.
(25:26):
Tina and I, my wife and I coach together.
That's a little different.
That's cool.
We coach as, as couples.
And we prefer to actually coach couples together in this lifestyle mission.
And that's because like when I first started coaching about 15 years ago, I was primarily coaching dudes.
Okay.
You know, church planters and all.
And they get all stoked and they're like, oh my gosh, this is great.
That's so helpful.
And they go home and tell their wives what they needed to start doing differently.
(25:47):
That would Well, and the kids, yeah.
Worked real great.
And so though we do coach individuals.
We really love to coach couples and, and I'm telling you, it's like a marriage changer.
It's a life changer.
Get on the same page, right?
So now if you're listening later this, you're like, oh man, this is, I'm listening.
Like two a year later, whatever.
Still, go to the link.
Go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching.
We'll put it in the show notes.
(26:08):
Sure.
Okay.
Let's
Heath Hollensbe (26:09):
get to the big three for this week.
For those who are new to the show, what, those are the big three takeaways we want you to walk away with, and we're gonna present 'em nicely to you.
You can look out if nothing else.
Don't miss this.
Yeah, get it for free by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar, what are the big three for this
Caesar Kalinowski (26:24):
week?
Okay, first, uh, don't miss this.
Jesus exchanged his life for yours so that you could have and live his life now.
Hmm.
Okay.
It's like it's not someday we don't have to wait for it.
Yeah, no.
Right.
Sitting in rows in silence, listening to others, you know, listen to people just talk about getting on mission is definitely not the same thing as living with intention today.
(26:47):
This is life that we, we've been talking about today that you were created for.
Hmm.
And it's the adventure of a lifetime, I swear it is.
That's great.
And not, not just this lifetime, but beyond, right?
Yeah.
Storing up in heaven.
Um, second, the gospel's the answer to every question.
Good news for all of life, not to star after life, but this life, all of it now, um, the gospel's not just your ticket outta hell and into heaven someday.
(27:12):
Every sin issue or any pain or things, anything in your life or fears that stand in the way of our faithfulness to God's design and Jesus commands, which we talked about, make disciples who make disciples, right?
Anything that stands in the way, that's ultimately a gospel issue.
And since all sin is the outcome of unbelief in some aspect of what's true of God, we can actually learn to apply the truth about him and the good news.
(27:36):
To unbelief in any area of our life.
Remove (27:38):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (27:39):
So that frees us back up.
And it's not because we tried harder, it's 'cause we changed our belief or we allowed the spirit to change our belief.
Heath Hollensbe (27:46):
Yep.
You're exactly
Caesar Kalinowski (27:47):
right.
The gospel is the, is the answer to everything.
It really is.
It's the good news for all life.
Yep.
And the third, number three of the big three.
Start by making an intentional step toward getting equipped and growing in your gospel fluency today.
Half read books about all this.
They do.
Nobody any good.
Take a course, get a coach, find a Missional mentor or a community that you can learn and grow with.
(28:08):
It's gonna take some effort.
It's gonna take intentionality.
Yeah.
But every day is an opportunity to grow and mature in Christ and help others do the same.
I. It's life on Life.
Life in community, and life on mission that we were created for.
Okay.
So you're not waiting around anymore, are you okay every in this Now's the time.
Yeah.
Right.
So yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (28:27):
Hey, thanks for the big three Caesar.
And again, if you're listening and you're like, we wanna get coached by Caesar and Tina, the way you can get it working for you, all you have to do is just go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski (28:37):
That would be a huge privilege to get to be family with you for a while and you know, help you move towards that.
Heath Hollensbe (28:43):
Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show.
And to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Many of us are living with a form of spiritual schizophrenia.
Each of us has the same 24 hours each day, seven days a week.
It's just enough time to jam all of life in and then start again next week.
And I've learned that it is not life lived as God's family of missionary servants empowered by his Holy Spirit for his mission that actually burns people out or causes them to want to throw in the towel of their faith.
(00:26):
It's when we believe the lie that says we can continue building our own version of the American dream life or the European dream life or whatever.
Pursuing a bigger house, nicer cars, better vacations, the best of everything, and try and fit in a little church or a ministry, that life gets all outta whack.
See, we've been given just one life to live.
(00:47):
We can't live two different existences.
Heath Hollensbe (00:59):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Hey, good to be with you again, brother Heath.
(01:21):
What's happening, man?
I don't know what you've done, what sort of magic potion you've poured out upon civilization, but our group is growing.
Like,
Caesar Kalinowski (01:29):
man, stuff is happening.
Okay.
So we had a crazy explosion of members in the podcast group on Facebook.
Right?
Yeah.
Some of them are listening to this right now and some of the other, you know, our long-term listeners are going, yeah, I noticed too.
'cause all of a sudden, where are all these people?
My, you know, my feed is getting blown up.
So, so welcome to the new family members.
Like hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of you.
Yeah.
Like many hundreds.
Yeah.
(01:49):
It's good to have you guys, so I'm really grateful.
Yeah.
And, yep.
Awesome, man.
Well, let's jump into this episode.
Yeah.
Let me set the tone for this episode today, uh, because we're gonna talk about how our faith and life all fit together, but not in this weird, schizophrenic way.
Okay?
Yep.
And I wanna start by saying, like, reminding us, there's this, there's this old, it might be, I think it's true, it might be focal, but, uh, Vince Lombardi, thisfamous football coach, he would start off every season at the first training session holding out a ball in front of him, and he would say to his players, gentlemen.
(02:19):
This is a football.
And he always took them back to the basics often and as a way of going forward.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Like, like, Hey, we're not gonna get better unless we remember what's this all about?
This is a football, you know?
Yeah.
And so today we're kind of doing something similar, partly 'cause we got a whole lot of new guests, you know, joining us.
Sure.
And new members and folks and family hanging out.
(02:40):
But also 'cause it's just kind of time to say, you know, family, this.
Is the life.
You know, this is the gospel, this is a football, you know, so that's what we're gonna do.
Yep.
Heath Hollensbe (02:50):
You know, and I love that you started off with the term spiritual schizophrenia, because it does seem often that our Christian life, right?
We have this Christian life, and then we have a regular life that get lived out in different boxes and they're usually separate.
And one thing that we've really fought hard for, that's the
Caesar Kalinowski (03:04):
definition of schizophrenia, is like.
Uh, you know, I have this personality and then, but now switch it over here.
Yeah.
Frank showed up, you know, might have a niece that she was always referred to her by her middle name when she was kind of in a bad mood.
Okay.
Different word was used, but you know, it's like, oh, so-and-so's here.
You know, it feels like
Heath Hollensbe (03:21):
that, right?
Like you've got the Christian side, you've got the regular side.
And one thing we really try to.
To push through is how do we incorporate the gospel, the good news of Christ in a holistic sense.
Not, not this.
Yeah.
All of life.
Yeah.
It's not like we go to church and turn on worship for an hour and then we go live the rest of our lives lives in a different way like everybody else, but we wanna see the gospel affect every area of our lives.
(03:42):
Do you really still believe that this
Caesar Kalinowski (03:44):
is possible?
I absolutely do.
And like I was just saying, we got a whole lot of new friends that were, you know, they believed it and then they gave it a try this week, so that was awesome.
Yeah.
But you know, you're right.
One of the, one of our overarching goals of the podcast is to look at how faith can be integrated into all of life, family, work, ministry, all one life together without it being weird.
Yep.
(04:04):
You know, and or us getting burned out by it.
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
So, you're right, I use that term spiritual schizophrenia.
Because we do, we try to live these two separate lives.
And I don't think on paper anybody's like, oh, no, I'm a different person.
But I, I, you know, I can just, I'll speak for myself.
Okay.
Yep.
Many, many, many, many, many years of being a Christian and it was like, and Sunday's over and I did that and checked the box and it wasn't like I chucked my faith.
(04:29):
I don't believe in Jesus, you know, the rest of the week.
But I really didn't give it a whole lot of thought.
Sure.
And then.
If we were doing some sort of a campaign at church to like, make sure you share your faith three times this week or something, you know, like hand out a track or something.
I might, you know, I might get on, you gotta get in on that.
But it wasn't really like, wait a minute.
Every bit of life has an opportunity to see like the thing behind the thing and the gospel and what, what the good news is.
(04:49):
Like what's true of God and what's he done like that, that anchors his character in our lives.
Yeah.
In scripture, in our own lives, in the past, what's true of us in our identity there, there's so much good news and.
As we grow in our gospel fluency, that's a term we use a lot, right?
Yep.
This ability to speak and, and experience the good news and everything.
Um, we start to realize that, oh, that's so core to making disciples as a lifestyle.
(05:12):
It's like, like, let's just put ourselves in lots of normal rhythms of everyday life and then let's let the gospels like ooze out and be good news.
Sure.
And that that's not just through our actions.
That's.
Both actions and words.
And I know some people lean towards like, I'd rather display the gospel.
You know, what's the old thing of like, you know, preach the gospel and use words if you must.
It's like, no, you gotta use words, you know?
(05:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Preach good news.
It, it has to be proclaimed.
How will they know if they don't hear?
But it also has to be lived out, otherwise people say bs.
I don't believe you.
Yeah.
Because I look at your life and you look just like everybody else all week.
Yeah.
But then you say, oh no, I, I go to church though.
Or something like, okay, what is that?
The bar?
I, I hope so.
So yeah.
I really do think it is still.
The reality.
(05:53):
And that's why I, you know, I tell people all the time, like of all the content we produce and put out, I love our podcast 'cause I love getting to say let's talk about anything.
Yeah.
And let's talk about the thing behind the thing and how the gospel speaks into it.
And we get to,
Heath Hollensbe (06:04):
so, and it's cool hearing the feedback from people that go, I never would've connected those, those two dots in that situation, you know?
Caesar Kalinowski (06:10):
Love it.
Heath Hollensbe (06:10):
Uh, one thing that we talk a lot about on the show, and we're actually getting a lot of questions from people even this week, is you keep using this word Missional and throwing it around.
And I've heard it used this way and I've heard it used this way.
Yeah.
I had a buddy the other day tell me.
Yeah, we're really Missional family.
Like we're, we try to be at church three or four times a week and then we got bible study and I'm like, yeah, I think you got the wrong, wrong word going.
It's hard to believe.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:28):
We're still having to define it.
Heath Hollensbe (06:30):
Yeah.
But maybe we go back.
It's kind of come
Caesar Kalinowski (06:31):
around the wheel a few times now, I think.
Yeah.
And I don't know that we've ever said like, what is Missional per se?
Right.
Let's do it.
So I don't, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna claim to go like, here's the definitive, you know, there's actually a Wikipedia post on Missional, you know, or something.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And some people like argue and they're like, anyway, so the word Missional, let's just break it down for a second, has something to do with the Missional a mission.
(06:53):
So it's like being focused on the mission.
Mission null, right?
Yeah.
So what's the mission of the church?
What's the primary focus?
In fact, the only mission the church has ever been given, Jesus, our king Lord savior, brother.
God of the universe, creator of all things.
He gave us the mission.
What's, you know, you know what I'm talking about?
What's the mission?
Get people to church on Sunday mornings.
(07:14):
I'm just kidding.
Go and make disciples.
Yeah.
Go and make disciples.
That's the only mission.
Now we get to go to church and we love being together as the family.
Heath Hollensbe (07:21):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:22):
Or I hope you do.
You know, sometimes, you know, I mean, you should, you get to Right.
But the mission is make disciples who make disciples so.
If let's just say like, is this is this group of mine or is my family like you just mentioned Missional, or is this church really Missional?
Well, if it's not making disciples who make disciples, then it's not Missional.
(07:42):
Right?
So a small group that gets together and studies the Bible like crazy.
Good on you.
Study the Bible.
It's not Missional because you call it that.
Or because, well, we did a service project last year.
That's just being a That's good.
That's being a survey.
Yeah.
Missional is like our focus.
Everything we do is about making disciples who make disciples.
Yep.
Helping people move from unbelief to belief in absolutely every area of life.
(08:02):
Right?
So here's another thing too, and this is gonna cut deep for some folks.
If Discipleships a department in the church.
You know?
Yeah.
Which it isn't a lot of, then it's probably not a Missional church.
'cause they see it as like, well, well, it's like an appendage.
It's one little thing we do.
Heath Hollensbe (08:16):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:16):
Like children's ministry, men's sports ministry, discipleship, like, no, no, no, no.
The only reason the church exists, and I mean church is people, and then therefore our functional church as structure exists, is to carry out Jesus' mission.
To make disciples who make disciples to do what?
To fulfill God's eternal purpose.
Mm-hmm.
To fill the world with his glory.
(08:37):
So if it's, if it's a department Mm. It's probably not.
'cause it's, it should be every, every, uh, everybody on staff, every elder, every deacon, everybody who goes there.
Like, what's our goal?
Uh, what's our mission?
It's to make disciples.
Right?
Yep.
If it's one person's responsibility to manage and spearhead discipleship for the whole church Hmm.
Then it's probably not particularly Missional.
(08:57):
Yeah.
That's helpful, man.
You know, now.
That's part of it, right?
Yeah.
That's just part of it.
So that's, you know, it's like, and, and, and I think everybody's gonna say, Nope, we're all about it.
We totally are all about discipleship.
Let me see your budget.
Let me see how much time you give to that.
Heath Hollensbe (09:11):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:11):
Every week.
Yeah.
And we'll know it changes things.
Yeah.
Our budget, our pocket, and our calendar will tell us the truth.
It just Absolutely.
I'm not here to tell anybody.
They are.
They're not.
But you know, look.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (09:21):
But show us the paperwork and we'll tell you.
Yeah.
So then the other thing that we talk about a lot is this concept of Missional communities.
We hit that almost every, uh.
Almost every episode with something along the lines, and you call whatever
Caesar Kalinowski (09:31):
you want.
But we use that term a lot.
I like it still.
Yeah, I really do.
I know some people are like, oh, it's a bad word now.
Everybody got freaked out on it, you know?
And some people, they really were, and they, they kind of lumped, Missional, and then therefore Missional Community and all that stuff.
They kind of lumped it in with some other movements that were going on about a decade ago or something, and it's like, no, we're notchucking the gospel and doctrine and all, you know, we're just gonna actually really focus on the thing Jesus said to be focused on.
(09:54):
So.
Heath Hollensbe (09:55):
So how would you define like a Missional Community?
Compared to what might be more of a traditional small group that we've all pretty familiar with in the past.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:04):
Uh, okay.
So again, let's come back to like if, like, uh, in my experience, the most of the small groups that I've been a part of and, and some of they were great, some of them were great, some of 'em not so great, but just being honest.
But, um, the focus of the small group was primarily on.
Us.
Hmm.
Like what we wanted to do and hang out.
(10:24):
And it was kind of a way to close the back door of the church.
'cause it was, you know, as churches got bigger and bigger and bigger, often in America, people were like, I don't know anybody.
So small groups were an invention to close the back door and make you feel like you knew someone.
Otherwise, it's just too easy to go across the street 'cause they got the new youth wing or like, I like that pastor's hair better.
I think it's got way better hair, you know, better
Heath Hollensbe (10:42):
concerts.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:42):
Yeah.
And so.
So small groups had a certain goal in mind, but they weren't necessarily focused on, okay, how do we make disciples who then make more disciples?
Mm-hmm.
Which means there's gonna be a very good balance between up.
In and out.
And a lot of our listeners know what I mean by that.
Just vernacular like boom, sure.
But up.
Jesus balance his life up with an upward focus connected to his father, deeply connected to the love of dad.
(11:06):
And, and so we say like, how, how's your up focus, you know?
And, and are you growing into gospel and in, in the truth of who God is and what's true of you now?
And then inward, are we becoming more like family and then outward?
This is one where we often lose it and we fall off the, the Missional train.
We're not really Missional 'cause like, well, we study a lot and we love God and we pray and we like to hang out.
(11:28):
But we really, like, there's no not yet believers hanging around.
None of our lost friends are around ever Exactly like so.
So we lose that out focus of the up in out.
And so part of the difference would be a Missional Community would be people who come together and say, Hey, you know what?
You know why we wanna hang?
'cause we wanna live like a family of missionary servants.
We wanna live on mission extended.
Go back to scripture.
(11:49):
Oikos.
The word oikos was this extended family who like, sure, they had their jobs and they had everything else but the mission of their life, the focus of their life, their words, their budgeting, their timeuse, how they vacation partied, who they hung out with was to make more disciples, help people find and love Jesus, and realize what he had done for them and the life that he had now united them in.
To the Trinity with himself and say, oh my God, now we're one.
(12:11):
Like, you really?
Can you get this right now from the Innerwebs?
And it's kind of helpful, but I'll, I'll tweak it a little as we go.
From the Innerwebs, I found, uh, a definition that says A Missional Community is a group of people about the size of an extended family.
What does that mean?
Right?
Who are united through their identity in Christ around common service and witness to a particular neighborhood or network of relationships.
(12:36):
It's pretty good, I think.
Yeah, it's pretty close.
Okay.
Now a definition that we used in my days of leading Soma, it still really works very, very well for me, and it's a little moreinsider because there again, we teach family missionary servant Disciple, but a Michel community is a committed core of believers.
Mm-hmm.
Parentheses family who live out the mission of God together.
As missionaries sent ones in a specific area or to a particular people group by demonstrating the gospel in tangible forms, that being servants, yep.
(13:04):
And declaring the gospel to others, both those who believe it and those who are being exposed to it.
Meaning discipleship.
So that's like, and the summary would be, again, I've said it a bunch of times today already, we're a family of missionary servants sent as disciples who make disciples.
Yeah.
So hopefully people can do their own compare and contrast to, well, we get together once a month and we study the sermon notes or once a week and we study the sermon notes, but it'll make it a lot.
(13:31):
And then we take the summers off.
Yeah.
And like that doesn't sound like a healthy family, you know, like who are united around the mission and like just going deeper and deeper and deeper into it.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (13:40):
well, maybe you could share a little bit about your story.
Is this something that you've always, uh, like been raised in and believed this for a long time?
Or was Christianity more of a title, uh, or if it was a title, did this switch one day?
When did it switch?
Where, where did you begin developing this sort of thinking?
Caesar Kalinowski (13:56):
Sure.
Well, it's, it's still being developed, you know, it's ongoing, man.
The revelation of how good news the gospel really is and how we get to live just continues to just blow my mind.
Uh, so I was.
There again, you know, long-term listeners have heard pieces of this, but I was raised in a home, uh, where my mom took us to church.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, we were Christians.
(14:16):
Right.
My dad was a priester that, you know, that person who goes to Christmas and Easters Easter.
Easter, yeah.
That's all you know.
And usually not both, but um, I. He, uh, yeah.
He would at best maybe drop us off and pick us up if my mom was working or sleeping or something like that.
She worked second shift, but we grew up and yes, it was a title for us.
We were Christians.
And what did that mean?
That means that you don't do certain things.
(14:37):
It really was the old school, which, you know, I know everybody says, oh, that's, but those days are over.
Mm. Not for about 70% of the church, but it was really, Christianity was a list of rules and stuff you don't do because Christianity was about waiting for heaven.
And in the meantime it was about sin management and behavioral modification.
Yep.
That's what it was.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (14:56):
Same with
Caesar Kalinowski (14:56):
me now.
And that's not even being harsh, that's just looking back as an adult and going.
It was that we were waiting around, we, I set a prayer,
Yep.
Uh, you know, like the Jesus in your heart prayer that you never find, the scripture said that many, many, many times.
And, uh, and then we were kind of just trying not to sin, and it was a heavy burden, you know?
And there was, there was no discipleship.
There was no like.
There was a lot of talk about the Holy Spirit, but like in kinda weird, like, ow sparky ways, not like, Hey, wait a minute, like I have to talk to my wife about something that's a little sensitive and maybe a little prickly.
(15:24):
I need the spirit's help.
You know, it wasn't, it was never practical wise like that.
Um, now jump way ahead.
Okay.
Uh, I, I actually have been discipled and I am now a father and, and I'm actually working.
I'm doing a lot of international mission stuff like traveling around the world, and I end up actually as a missions pastor at a mega church.
It's crazy.
(15:44):
And, um, I, I start going back and forth on these trips and I'm gone for like two, three weeks at a time or more.
And, um, when we're in the field, you know, we're on these trips.
We're actually being the church, like we're with the body.
They don't own anything most often.
They don't have buildings.
They don't have, I mean, like some of 'em have like one.
Clo set clothes.
I mean, you know, we're in Sudan, we're talking about during the Civil War, the walking stick people, they're just dying of starvation.
(16:09):
Sierra Leone and Thailand.
And I've been in Nigeria standing with Christians weeping, literally in smoldering ashes.
Heath Hollensbe (16:16):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:17):
Because the building, they did have got burned down.
God by, you know, militants and wow.
And, and they're just like, God, that's okay.
You know, we are the church, you know?
And I was like, yes, we are.
And then I come home and we're like putting on the big show, you know, and it was like Q camera three, you know?
And smoke.
And a little more light.
A little more light.
Sure.
A little warm up.
Warm it up.
A little, little more yellow.
A little yellow.
(16:37):
And I was like, holy cow, man.
Like, I love my church.
But I just like, I feel like now we're doing church instead of being church.
Sure.
And as we went back and forth and back and forth, it got harder and harder.
I felt.
Talk about schizophrenia.
I felt like.
How come they, you know, when I'm out with these people who are being the church, I feel like I'm, we're the church and we'd like, well forsake anything.
(16:58):
It's the best ever.
And, you know, have you, you ever been on a short-term mission trip?
Heath Hollensbe (17:01):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:01):
Couple of 'em.
Yeah.
You ever, like when you, you, you know, you get back and you feel like, man, that was the best, you know?
Yeah.
Like we had to bear with some people that were a little prickly, but we got through it 'cause we had to.
Yep.
You know?
Absolutely.
And you're like, God, wouldn't it just be great if we could live like that all the time?
Yeah.
And, and we think our only option is like, well maybe I should move overseas.
Heath Hollensbe (17:17):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:17):
Right.
Well, for us.
Where the dime dropped, where the switch was, doing those trips back and forth.
We said, wait a minute, reading the book of Acts, do we get to live like that?
Like what we're experiencing on these short-term trips?
Mm-hmm.
Do we get to live that way here?
Why not?
What's keeping us?
Yeah.
Nothing's keep, I remember I was on one trip, Heath, I was with these people that had nothing.
They had Jesus, and they were so full of joy, bro.
Heath Hollensbe (17:40):
Really?
Caesar Kalinowski (17:40):
They were so full of joy and I mean, they were persecuted.
It was the worst.
And I remember weeping, weeping, praying, Lord, I would give everything I have.
To have the joy they have in you.
Heath Hollensbe (17:51):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:52):
And I swear to God, it wasn't audible, but it almost like the spirit said, well then do.
Wow.
And I was like, I was like the rich young ruler.
I had to hang my head and walk away.
I was like, I, I, I, I don't, I don't even know where to start.
Yeah, exactly.
And so when we moved out to Tacoma and we moved out to Washington, it was beginning of us going like, we don't know how to do it, but we're gonna start learning how we're gonna live like a missionary sent to another country.
Hmm.
Like for instance here, like, work on this with me a little bit.
(18:14):
Okay.
Like, imagine if you will, like we sent you.
And Kathleen, uh, to another country and, um, we're sending you and the kids off to a foreign country to be full-time missionaries.
You're leaving next month, you're fully funded, everything's good to go, and you're being sent there to proclaim and plant the gospel in that village or city or whatever it is, and see new disciples of Jesus.
Remove (18:36):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:37):
Okay.
What are some of the things you think you would, I mean, even if you had no training, just off the top of your head from just being a Christian and maybe doing some short term, what would you start doing?
With some regularity.
Boom.
As soon as your boots hit the ground
Heath Hollensbe (18:49):
Oh yeah.
Start throwing some dinners.
Inviting people over.
Yeah.
Uh, going and seeing 'em where they live.
Hanging out with 'em, hearing their stories.
Get to learn a language.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:57):
Eat where they eat, right?
Yeah.
Drink, they drink ways to serve 'em.
Is there anything we can do to help?
Like literally all, we don't want to just be here to take, we're here to help
Heath Hollensbe (19:03):
study some of the cult, the, their cultural norms.
Like what, what's custom to it might
Caesar Kalinowski (19:07):
change the way we dress.
Yeah.
Might start eating some weird stuff, right.
Uh, right.
Yeah.
All this kind of stuff.
Exactly.
And so.
God said, just go and do that.
Yeah.
So we did and we had to soak in and so at like at 40 I, we moved to Tacoma and I'm like, here we go.
And I remember the hardest part of it was trying to explain to my friends and my family, some of who were supporting us financially.
(19:29):
'cause we didn't, there was no means to support.
Sure.
You know, like, so what are you guys doing?
Like, like my, my folks could understand, you know, and friends could understand when they would see my.
15 foot head on the screens preaching, you know, back at the, at the big church or you know, like, hey, nice office.
And like, they wanna meet my staff and I get a lot of staff, you know, and like, yeah.
You know, they understood all that, but now you're like, uh, we're living like missionaries and like.
(19:52):
Well, let's see.
Last night I went to this metal show because there's these guys in this rock band that we're getting to know, and there's like one believer in the group, but he isn't how to make disciples.
And so we're kind of helping him.
Yeah.
And we're being pals to him.
It's a whole different way.
And then, yeah.
And then we helped this guy move again.
And then this guy's like, there's a homeless dude living with us this week.
I'm not sure how long he'll be here.
He said just for a few days, but it's been a week, you know?
And on and on.
You're like, uh uh.
Now we also had community.
(20:13):
Sure.
And we were studying the word like crazy and we, you know, it was just.
Never been busier kind of thing, but it was very, very different.
So when that started switching and we started seeing people come to faith, yep.
Like Jesus says, if you'll walk in my ways and be my Disciple, then you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free.
And we're like, whoa.
That's 180 degrees outta syn from what we've always done.
Yeah.
So we started
like inviting people to walk in the ways of our life, which we're increasingly his ways, and they were starting to come to the truth of who he was in different areas of their life and believe.
(20:42):
You know, we say discipleship, suppress, and moving from unbelief to belief.
Yep.
They were starting to and then starting to trust him.
And then they're like, that's cool.
Yeah.
I wanna follow this guy and I want him to be in charge now.
Wow.
And what's, what do I need to do to get in?
Like trust him.
That's
Heath Hollensbe (20:55):
amazing,
Caesar Kalinowski (20:55):
man.
That's it.
You know, we have people say like, well, do I have start giving some money now?
I'm like, you can, but you don't have to.
Yeah.
Have to give it to me, you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:02):
Yeah.
So
what about people that are listening to the show right now and they, and it's, and something's bubbling up inside of 'em and they're like, I wanna actually start living more this way, but I don't wanna burn out.
I don't wanna come across like a total freak and not know what to say.
How would you, what, what steps would you burn?
Yeah.
Living like
Caesar Kalinowski (21:17):
a missionary isn't like canal.
I constantly am just handing out tracks and like, just
Heath Hollensbe (21:21):
anointing with oil.
Yeah, yeah.
Everybody
Caesar Kalinowski (21:23):
going nutty it, it, it's actually more than that, but way simpler, you know?
Sure.
Well, um.
I can't obviously teach all the things we teach and train and coach people to Sure.
On the show here today.
But I would, let me, let me try to break it down if I can.
I think living out our faith in all of life and really seeing our life integrated into our faith starts with three things.
(21:43):
Desire,
Heath Hollensbe (21:44):
mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (21:45):
Intentionality.
Because life is really mirrored, like God's just miraculously ordered the wor the way the world works and the rhythms we live in to fit sure like his will and fill in the world with his glory and Disciple making.
Uh, so desire, intentionality.
And then this one may surprise people equipping, like being equipped and equipping others, and that that leads, that's the discipleship part of it.
(22:07):
So, sure.
I would say if you have a desire.
Speak to the first one.
To live with greater intentionality in your life when it comes to your faith and work and ministry and parenting, and being a good spouse, and how it all really gets gospel.
Now's the time to start making a difference.
Don't let your hopes and desires stay.
Just that sort of a dream.
(22:27):
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, oh, well someday, you know, I've been reading this stuff for a long time, but you know, we're just kind of can't wait to do it.
Yeah.
It's like what?
You can begin to experience the good news of the gospel in every area of life today.
Okay.
So one small step starts the journey.
If you have the desire, that's awesome.
'cause believe it or not, a lot of people don't.
They're like, Nope, I'm fine.
I'm just fine the way I am.
Hmm.
I'll go to church that 1.7 times a month or 2.3 or whatever it is.
(22:49):
Check it off.
Yep.
And, uh, back to my American dream life or whatever.
So.
So desire.
Second one is, if you have the desire, then determined to be intentional about what areas in life you wanna improve, and, and I don't mean prove like work, you work hard and prove yourself.
I'm saying like, I want to grow in the gospel in that area of my life.
Sure.
I wanna be more like Jesus in this area.
I. My finances, my generosity, my my words, my tone, the way I, the way people read me and see me being a servant and all that.
(23:18):
So what areas do you wanna improve in and then, you know, and, and get equipped in and grow and lead others in?
Like I can remember really young in life going, I think that God's put it on my heart.
A desire to lead and teach, but I wasn't doing any of it yet.
I was very young in my faith.
Sure.
And I said, Lord, okay, if that's from you, what do I do?
(23:38):
He goes, well, who do you know that you could lead and teach?
I'm like, I don't know.
I know four or five guys in the neighborhood that a couple of 'em claim to be Christians.
A couple, I'm not sure of.
All right.
Start there.
Yeah.
So I went to him.
I said, Hey, you guys wanna start a Bible study with me?
I mean, I didn't know anything.
Sure.
Like there was no Missional nothing.
Right.
I. They're like, yeah, we will.
I had a guy, I had a guy seriously not too long ago, and this is like 25 years ago.
(23:59):
You know, write me go, you know the Bible study we did on X, Y, Z in your living room back in that neighborhood?
I'm like, no, I don't really remember it.
He goes, he goes.
Life changing.
Still the best thing I've ever done in my life.
I refer to it all the time.
Like, you changed my life.
Whoa.
I was like, what?
Yeah, but God was showing me like, get started, right?
Get started.
Be intentional.
Like so I wanted to lead.
God said, there's your spot.
Like be faithful, the little faithful, the lot.
(24:20):
It won't happen accidentally.
It takes really great intentionality, discipleship, and mission.
You've probably heard me say this before.
Discipleship admission is living everyday life, but with increasingly greater gospel intentionality.
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the third thing, desire, intentionality, equipping, is once you begin to identify the areas of life you wanna live with greater confidence and intentionality, your next intention step would be get equipped.
(24:45):
Like to do that.
Learn, grow, get the knowledge, skills, coaching if you need it to succeed.
And if, if anybody listening would like to learn more about the coaching and maybe have me help develop a personal roadmapfor them and their family, or their team or church to move toward discipleship as a lifestyle and everyday life, sure.
Or maybe they wanna get started building a Missional Community.
(25:06):
Which is discipleship in every year of life.
All you know.
Yep.
Or if you wanna help lead others in your church into this lifestyle of sub ship, I'd love to be your coach and help you with that.
There's not a ton of spots when we open 'em up, they usually fill right up.
So, you know, you hear this, you can go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching and learn more about it and how it all works and, you know, get registered.
(25:26):
Tina and I, my wife and I coach together.
That's a little different.
That's cool.
We coach as, as couples.
And we prefer to actually coach couples together in this lifestyle mission.
And that's because like when I first started coaching about 15 years ago, I was primarily coaching dudes.
Okay.
You know, church planters and all.
And they get all stoked and they're like, oh my gosh, this is great.
That's so helpful.
And they go home and tell their wives what they needed to start doing differently.
(25:47):
That would Well, and the kids, yeah.
Worked real great.
And so though we do coach individuals.
We really love to coach couples and, and I'm telling you, it's like a marriage changer.
It's a life changer.
Get on the same page, right?
So now if you're listening later this, you're like, oh man, this is, I'm listening.
Like two a year later, whatever.
Still, go to the link.
Go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching.
We'll put it in the show notes.
(26:08):
Sure.
Okay.
Let's
Heath Hollensbe (26:09):
get to the big three for this week.
For those who are new to the show, what, those are the big three takeaways we want you to walk away with, and we're gonna present 'em nicely to you.
You can look out if nothing else.
Don't miss this.
Yeah, get it for free by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar, what are the big three for this
Caesar Kalinowski (26:24):
week?
Okay, first, uh, don't miss this.
Jesus exchanged his life for yours so that you could have and live his life now.
Hmm.
Okay.
It's like it's not someday we don't have to wait for it.
Yeah, no.
Right.
Sitting in rows in silence, listening to others, you know, listen to people just talk about getting on mission is definitely not the same thing as living with intention today.
(26:47):
This is life that we, we've been talking about today that you were created for.
Hmm.
And it's the adventure of a lifetime, I swear it is.
That's great.
And not, not just this lifetime, but beyond, right?
Yeah.
Storing up in heaven.
Um, second, the gospel's the answer to every question.
Good news for all of life, not to star after life, but this life, all of it now, um, the gospel's not just your ticket outta hell and into heaven someday.
(27:12):
Every sin issue or any pain or things, anything in your life or fears that stand in the way of our faithfulness to God's design and Jesus commands, which we talked about, make disciples who make disciples, right?
Anything that stands in the way, that's ultimately a gospel issue.
And since all sin is the outcome of unbelief in some aspect of what's true of God, we can actually learn to apply the truth about him and the good news.
(27:36):
To unbelief in any area of our life.
Remove (27:38):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (27:39):
So that frees us back up.
And it's not because we tried harder, it's 'cause we changed our belief or we allowed the spirit to change our belief.
Heath Hollensbe (27:46):
Yep.
You're exactly
Caesar Kalinowski (27:47):
right.
The gospel is the, is the answer to everything.
It really is.
It's the good news for all life.
Yep.
And the third, number three of the big three.
Start by making an intentional step toward getting equipped and growing in your gospel fluency today.
Half read books about all this.
They do.
Nobody any good.
Take a course, get a coach, find a Missional mentor or a community that you can learn and grow with.
(28:08):
It's gonna take some effort.
It's gonna take intentionality.
Yeah.
But every day is an opportunity to grow and mature in Christ and help others do the same.
I. It's life on Life.
Life in community, and life on mission that we were created for.
Okay.
So you're not waiting around anymore, are you okay every in this Now's the time.
Yeah.
Right.
So yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (28:27):
Hey, thanks for the big three Caesar.
And again, if you're listening and you're like, we wanna get coached by Caesar and Tina, the way you can get it working for you, all you have to do is just go to everyday Disciple dot com slash coaching.
Caesar Kalinowski (28:37):
That would be a huge privilege to get to be family with you for a while and you know, help you move towards that.
Heath Hollensbe (28:43):
Thanks for joining us today for more information on this show.
And to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
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