April 21, 2025 • 25 mins
Living as a family on mission in community with others is a big shift—and a big commitment. It gets even trickier when you’re trying to start or transition a small group that originally formed for reasons other than discipleship and mission.
This week on the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re asking the honest question: Why is missional living so hard? We'll unpack some of the common challenges and give you practical tips, hope, and encouragement for when things feel tough.
Sure, it might feel hard at first… (because it is!). But once you've experienced the beauty of gospel-centered community—living like a true spiritual family—there’s no going back to simply checking the church box on Sundays.
In This Episode You’ll Learn:
- The key differences between a traditional small group and a true missional community
- How time, schedules, personal preferences, and priorities shape our ability to live this out
- Why it’s crucial for married couples to be aligned in mission
- What a sustainable, healthy pace looks like for long-term community life
Get started here... From this episode: “I have seen a lot of communities that have had real issues because the networks of friends were so varied or far apart. And I know a lot of churches have traditional Small Groups that were formed based on what night of the week worked for folks at the church to get together and have pie and discuss the sermon from last Sunday…But, when you commit to doing Missional Community together, you are essentially committing to be a family together. To do life together.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Free Discipleship and Missional...Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:01):
Yeah.
Living like this as a family on mission with others in communities isa big commitment, but it's one that Jesus promised to walk with us in.
And you're right, brother.
Transitioning small groups that were pulled together for reasons other than discipleship andmission, and asking folks to now commit to increasingly live like a family together mission.
That can be some tough sledding.
It's hard.
You've gotta start with the gospel and our true gospel identity.
(00:25):
That has to be grounded in our own hearts first before we'll ever lead anyone else orlead change at our churches and, and leaders will actually need to start living this way
at home and in their neighborhoods with others as the rings of relationship move outward.
They'll really need to model what.
They preach and sure, this seems hard at first, but once you'veexperienced life in a gospel centered community like a family, there's
(00:48):
no going back to just checking the church box once a week on Sunday.
Heath Hollensbe (01:03):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski (01:22):
I'm glad to be here with ya.
He, how you doing man?
What's going on?
Heath Hollensbe (01:25):
Alright man.
So, uh.
I've actually made a move this week.
This was my last week serving in the institution.
You know, we've always talked about in in the institutional church, we've always talkedabout, oh, I was wondering like the institution, like have you been in prison for time?
Yeah, I've been in prison.
Little reform going on.
Yeah, so I've always lived this kind of bifurcated, like living missionallythroughout the week and in our neighborhood with intentionality, but then
(01:46):
also serving in a local church and not, so now I'm kind of a free agent.
I get to.
I get to out,
Caesar Kalinowski (01:51):
not that you'll never do that again.
No.
Never say never.
Right.
But I know that you've made a transition in months past, but you also were still serving there.
Yeah.
Kind of both.
And by owing it up a while.
And so now we're, that's a pretty big deal.
Heath Hollensbe (02:01):
Yeah.
First time.
I mean, this is the first time in blush response.
Happy.
Yeah.
Really happy.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:05):
I know obviously your schedule and time with your kids is gonna change a manly
Heath Hollensbe (02:08):
Yeah.
It'll be the first time in.
Six years where I've had a two day weekend.
Isn't that crazy?
Caesar Kalinowski (02:16):
Well, and ever since you kind of took on the, the, the day job and sort of went BiVo, it's like you doubled down.
It wasn't even like, it wasn't even like, I'm getting free, you know, like, anyway, soI'm free if you see me a, you've been a good servant brother to your local community.
You really have.
It's been fun.
I know they're gonna.
Hard to see you go Well, anyway, it's been good.
Right?
All right, let's dive in, man.
Let's, let's dive into this week's
Heath Hollensbe (02:35):
delio.
Um, okay.
Okay.
So this whole missional thing, um, I'm constantly surprised at how often Ihear people that say they're living on mission or living a missional lifestyle.
I. And I'm thinking, yes.
Yeah.
Right.
Your lives don't reflect it at all.
Maybe.
So maybe we could start with kind of painting thestrokes of what it really does mean to be missional.
How would you impact this?
Caesar Kalinowski (02:56):
Yeah.
I like, I like this episode, uh, and where we're headingtoday, Heath, because it is sort of a back to basics things.
But, and, and if anybody's like, uh, I'm moving on.
I'm past that.
It's like, no, you're not.
Okay.
And guess what?
Someone's gonna join your community soon.
That doesn't know any of this.
Yeah, exactly.
And unless you know how to articulate it and you know, whatever, or if you're listeningand you're like, or leading small group or you're leading all the small groups in
(03:19):
your church, this basic stuff is the stuff that I return to over and over and over.
Mm-hmm.
So, but we're kind of coming at it from that angle, like you said, is why is this so hard?
Yeah.
So, but I love your, I love your like, intro here.
Like what is, what do we mean by missional, you know, how do we, how do we unpack that?
So, um, what.
What?
What we're talking about is our identity in Christ.
Okay?
(03:39):
We say we're a family of missionary servants sent asdisciples who make disciples and our identity now.
Flowing from God.
Mm-hmm.
The source now flows out into all the normal rhythms of life as we make disciples whomake disciples accomplishing God's eternal purpose of filling the world with his glory.
Yeah.
Now that's a, that's a mouthful, but.
(04:00):
That's very, very different than like, oh, we had a Minal community.
What is it?
Oh, it's our small group.
But now we, once a year, we go and serve, no, no, no, no.
Are you believing your identity?
Wow.
Are you grounded in it?
Are you saturated in your Trinitarian identity as a part of God's family?
A missionary servants out making disciples, and that's your lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
It's not like an add-on.
It's not a program.
(04:20):
It's not a group that gets together once a week just to talkabout Bible stuff or churchy stuff or pray for one another.
Those are all good things.
Sure.
It's not just a Bible study.
It's an increasingly.
Vibrant life together on the mission of God, which is to fill the world with his glory.
And how do we do that?
Jesus gave us the mission, the, you know, the common mission.
Go make disciples.
Yep.
Right?
(04:40):
Fill the world with me.
What I'm like, 'cause I'm the glory of the father.
That's what we're talking about when we talk about living a missional lifestyle.
So this isn't really for the faint of heart.
And this is probably why it's so hard because I'll tell you what's a wholelot easier than letting God change your belief around your identity and all
the rhythms of your life and radically reorienting your time use and all that.
Yep.
You know what's a whole lot easier checking the box on Sunday, once a week.
(05:03):
Totally.
Like, you know, I said that prayer in, you know, back in, uh, youth groupback at the camp that one summer, you know, I even shed a tear or two.
I meant it, you know, that's, that was important.
You gotta mean it, you know, God knows if you mean it,
, Heath Hollensbe: you get the stars for perfect
attendance.
Yeah.
That's a whole lot easier than I'm gonna now.
Lead myself and my family and submit to this work of thespirit and all of life and radically see my life reprioritized.
Heath Hollensbe (05:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:25):
That's what we're ultimately talking about.
But, but it's hard and it does.
It's not a light switch.
Sure.
We've talked about in the show before, Michel community lifeis not like a light switch where we just go, you know what?
I was listening to this podcast, convinced me click.
We're living it.
I wish
Heath Hollensbe (05:37):
it's still, I mean, we've done this for years, like it's awfully difficult.
Yeah.
You know, one thing that I constantly go back to is just how difficultthis lifestyle is, because it really is a reorientation of how you
prioritize nearly everything in your life, how you voucher time.
Eventually it all comes under the gospel, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's a community that's not necessarily your bloodfamily, but you have to start taking into account.
(06:00):
Times and, and how does this serve the community better, and how do we adjust our schedules?
Mm-hmm.
How do we adjust our vacation so that we can actually be together?
How do we adjust our family interest or activities or spending, you know?
Yeah.
It all really does.
Come into this crockpot of different groups coming together and actually trying to figure this out.
But what you just described is exactly what
Caesar Kalinowski (06:19):
we see in scripture.
Yeah.
It's exactly what we see Jesus doing with his disciples and those thathe hung out with his clothes, like his ikas, his pals, and then when he.
Ascends goes to the father and sends the spirit back.
Then we see his disciples and the, and the churches thatthey started in, the communities, the KOAs that grew.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
This is exactly what they were doing.
(06:39):
They were, they were all their hearts, their lives, their stuff,their schedule, everything you just listed was all submitted to Jesus.
Hmm.
It wasn't like, Hey, I'm living my, and, and I'll just jump ahead back to likecurrent time I'm living the American dream life where I, you know, I get everything.
That everybody else has bigger, louder, more, faster, sooner.
Sure.
And I wedge in a little bit of Jesus and all.
(07:01):
Well, no.
And, and and, and it's not just, I have to figure out how to do this myself and help my,my spouse and my kids understand the, this beautiful life that we've actually been given.
But now I have to help others do it.
It's gonna be very, very slow.
Heath Hollensbe (07:14):
Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:15):
And it's gonna have to be motivated by the gospel.
It really will be.
Heath Hollensbe (07:18):
Yeah.
You're absolutely right, ma'am.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:20):
But it, it is tough.
So, I mean, let's, we're agreeing right at the front end is, youknow, the, the title of the show is, why is Michel Living so hard?
It is hard.
Well, it's because it's really a whole lot of dying to self and preference, and evenwrong teaching about the gospel and what it means to be a Christian and why Jesus came.
There's a lot of unlearning that then.
Leads to new learning and freedom and you're realizing,wow, the gospel's so much bigger than I thought.
(07:44):
But it's simple.
The story of God is big.
It's powerful, but it, it's simple to understand
Heath Hollensbe (07:48):
and explain and what have we been doing?
And so, yeah.
So in your mind, what do you think are some of maybe the biggest challenges?
I. When trying to get started or to even stay living missionally with others in community?
Well,
Caesar Kalinowski (08:01):
besides, you know, our well-worn patterns of consumerism and complacency, maybe.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's just easy to kinda kick back, right?
Yeah.
Uh, you know, complacency with the way our life, our Christian life's beenfor so long, um, there are a handful of things that I've seen that are part
of why it's so hard to get started or, or part sustain it, like you said.
Okay.
So first thing that comes to mind is, um.
(08:23):
And this kinda speaks to, to married couples.
Right.
And that's probably most of our listenership.
Sure.
Um, is not being on the same page together as a couple.
Heath Hollensbe (08:31):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:31):
You, you just, you know, I would say that's
Heath Hollensbe (08:32):
happened in our life.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:33):
Yeah.
And, and it's like, you know, I, I talk to people almost everyday where one spouse is, is really leaning into missional living.
Mm-hmm.
And the other one is not, they want their time, their houses, their refuge.
They don't want anybody, you know, sinning all over their kids.
Yep.
They don't want their house a mess.
They, they, everything's prioritized.
I'm gonna go to church on Sunday.
I love Jesus.
(08:53):
I'm good.
Yep.
And you're, so that's, that's hard.
Yeah.
So before you're gonna like, oh, I'm gonna blow it up and we'regonna have this huge Michel community, but my spouse isn't on board.
Yep.
So my kids feel like they get to vote.
Well, we're all gonna follow our complacent hearts.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
Our, so, so that's the first one is how do you get,you know, you gotta get together on the same page.
(09:13):
Yeah.
That's been
Heath Hollensbe (09:14):
the one thing for us was, uh.
Was just the fact that I love being an extrovert and I get, I comealive with people and parties and, and my wife loves the quietness.
And so for, for me, I could go seven days a week having peopleover 'cause it's Well, and she's been home all day with a crowd.
Yeah, exactly.
And she's like, so she's anyone here?
She's doing a great job.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:32):
Yeah.
Of extroverting it up for introverted heart, you know, so she definitely needs some time.
So that.
So you bring up a good point.
So, so it's not that she can't do those things.
She does 'em all day.
It's not that she isn't in community with others, but she has to be very, very understanding andyou need to be very understanding to get on the same page of, well, when does she get to recharge?
Heath Hollensbe (09:50):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:50):
You know, you're right because you recharge.
Probably going, and I just got done with work and I can't wait to get some people over here.
Yeah.
She's like, I've been with people.
I can't wait.
He's coming home and I can't wait to go hide for a while.
That's fair.
Right, exactly.
All right.
Here's another one.
It makes it hard is to get started or to sustain this.
Is it it not experiencing or modeling this life with your own family?
(10:11):
Hmm.
Or your husband or wife or kids or whatever?
Uh, first, uh, so often and, and I, uh, guilty.
Okay, guilty here.
Um, people will say, you know, we're starting this Michel community, and theykind of throw a lasso around a bunch of church friends and maybe a couple of.
Neighbors and stuff and they go, boom, that's our Michel community.
And then they start trying to proceed to getting 'em to live ways that they've never even lived.
(10:32):
Yeah.
Like we're gonna have these killer meals together every week.
Hey, tell me about the killer meals you have at your own dinner table every week.
Yeah.
Oh, we barely eat together.
Yeah.
Or we, that's an issue.
Or we just throw food down.
It's just food.
Yeah.
Like, okay, wait a minute.
Back the train up.
So that's a, that's a huge barrier to getting other people to live a certain way.
You've never even lived.
Yeah.
So I always say like, Hey, this starts in the mirror.
(10:52):
This starts at your own table.
Yeah, let's create some new rhythms.
Let's get some new beliefs going, understanding of ouridentity and how it's starting to flow into our nuclear family.
And then we'll start to invite people's.
Uh, people into those rings.
Yep.
Right.
Instead of like, I don't live this way, let's throw aass around a bunch of people and shoot 'em to death.
Yeah.
You gonna lose.
Yeah.
You gotta be a
Heath Hollensbe (11:11):
practitioner in your own family.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
First,
Caesar Kalinowski (11:14):
you know.
Right.
Because that's your model, that's your first mission field, so to speak.
Right?
Yep.
Alright.
Here's another thing that kills a lot of people, is starting too fastand, and trying to talk a bunch of people into new life stuff and rhythms.
Before their heart catch catches up and it's rightly motivated by the gospel.
Hmm.
So even if you have been starting to live this in your own household
Heath Hollensbe (11:36):
Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski (11:36):
And then you go, okay, boom.
And you see, and I, God, I hear it so many times, people are like,we had all these people from church and we told 'em about what we're
doing and they were all excited and no one wants to do anything.
Hmm.
Because as soon as we told 'em it was gonna be more than one night aweek, they were like, I don't even know if I can do one night a week.
It's like, wait a minute.
You can't be with Jesus and, and live out what you were created for.
And Jesus died for more than a a, a day a week.
(11:58):
Well, when are you gonna become a Christian?
Yeah.
You know,
Heath Hollensbe (12:00):
it's like there's some issues there.
Yeah.
What is
Caesar Kalinowski (12:01):
going on?
So, starting too fast and trying to talk people into stuff that their heart hasn't caught up to.
It always, it always ends up with finger pointing and hurt feelings.
Yep.
You're right.
And, and a fizzle, you know?
Right.
Yep.
And sometimes it's like, well, not everybody did.
So now we just hang out with these two couples.
'cause they agree with us.
It's like, oh, it's a, it's a gospel motivation thing.
Yeah.
That's, you gotta start there.
Yep.
(12:22):
All right.
Another thing that I've seen that's like a kind of a challenge ora barrier is not having accountability to actually get started.
Hmm.
Like so many people, you know, I run into, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're really gonna start living this way.
Like, I mean, I know it, I've been listening to your show, or I read your first book, or whatever.
You know, it's like, we're really, really gonna get it.
It's like tick, tick, tick.
Years go by.
(12:42):
Yeah.
You know, like having some accountability to get started to stick to your plan.
Hmm.
Having someone else who like brings accountability via the gospel.
Yep.
Right?
So it's not like, Hey, I thought you were gonna have a party this weekend with your neighbors.
It's like, wait a minute.
What?
You know, like, let's, let's let the gospel inform what was going on in your heart.
So you canceled that thing, right?
Yeah.
Um.
Yeah, because we wanna be motivated, rightly.
You need to have some good motivation and accountability, encouragement that's ongoing.
(13:06):
Mm-hmm.
You really do.
I'll tell you what, in, in too many, too many churches and the thousandsof emails that I've gotten where people are like, do you, we live here.
Do you know someone who lives this way?
We gotta find a community.
We gotta find a plan.
We want to get going.
We don't know what we're doing.
You know?
Mm. Like, like we've been talking about it forever.
We've tried a few things, a little start, stop, start, stop.
And.
I, yeah, I don't know.
(13:27):
We, we keep blowing it off then years go by, so yeah,getting some accountability and some encouragement's.
Really, really huge man.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (13:33):
absolutely.
Trying to do
Caesar Kalinowski (13:34):
something that's like, you're gonna die now to a whole lot of stuff and your church knows nothing about it,
Heath Hollensbe (13:39):
it's gonna be almost impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski (13:40):
All right.
Yep.
And then, and I think, I think last two is, and this is big, is to have a trustedperson or couple in your life that not only brings you accountability, you
know, and encouragement, but that lives the life that you're wanting to live.
Right.
They're already living it.
Sure.
And, and they can walk alongside you for the whole thing.
That's super important.
Yeah.
Otherwise, people just feel like I, we're out here drifting.
(14:02):
I hear it all the time.
Like we felt so alone.
We're in a huge church.
And there's people hanging around.
But we just felt so alone because the things that we're learning andthe things that God's birthing in our hearts, no one's ever done before.
We've never seen them.
Hmm.
So most people weren't discipled in a way that had the gospel speak into and shape all of life.
Yep.
That leads to living now on mission.
You're gonna need some help to really move into this.
(14:22):
So, you know, just hoping for change, hoping for magic to happen, or lightning the strike.
It won't produce the change in lifestyle that you desire.
Yeah.
The life that Jesus came to give us all.
So, you know, find a coach or a mentor if you're serious.
Right?
Yeah.
And, and, and you know, I'm not hiding anything.
That's part of what we do, right?
Yeah.
It's part of what we've given our life to.
Tina and I is coaching and mentoring people in this.
(14:44):
We live this way.
We know how to make disciples.
We can help you.
Yeah.
And then be a huge privilege if you wanted us to anyway.
So that, that's a big thing though, is just trying to go alone, muddlingthrough it, you know, it's like, well, I'd like to have a coach, but
you know, that's gonna cost a couple hundred bucks or something like.
Come on.
How much are you spending on a million other things that are not producing lifeand, and, and freedom and training your kids on how to live out the kingdom and
(15:05):
all I go, yeah, just please reprioritize a little bit towards your spiritual lives.
This is important.
Heath Hollensbe (15:10):
Yeah.
I was thinking as you're talking there about some of the recent things that have been,uh, just in my own personal kind of heart and family, uh, rattling around as far as
difficulty in the missional life and, uh, the two situations that pop up initially.
One is that we.
We're part of a group of, of people that had a lot of family in the area.
(15:30):
And so it was like, yeah, we'll commit to our missionalcommunity except for when there's holidays and family vacations.
'cause then we actually go be with our real family and thenwe, so 80% of our free time gets sucked up by our bio family.
Family,
Caesar Kalinowski (15:41):
which you're supposed to be good family, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe (15:43):
Or the other thing is, uh, this, this sense of, um.
Uh, communities having real issues because the network of friends were so varied and far apart.
So different circles like, well, I've got work and thenI've got guys I do this with, and then guys I do this with.
Yeah.
And my wife's got this group, and then we've got our church group, and then we've got.
So I know a lot of, uh, I know a lot of churches have like traditional smallgroups that were sort of formed based off what night of the Week worked
(16:09):
with certain people at the church to get together and or they tried to
Caesar Kalinowski (16:12):
solve that problem that you just said.
There's, everybody's so different.
So let's just put people in the same exact age and stage of life andguys who like biking and guys d biking, but they like hiking instead.
Or like, they only like baseball, so they'll get, you know, andthen when baseball season's over, like we won't see anybody.
Yeah, exactly.
It wasn't a real community.
It was just like you serving your.
Like needs,
Heath Hollensbe (16:29):
it's like too many filters.
And then you all look alike, right?
Yeah.
So when you commit though to, to actually doing this missionalcommunity together, the life of a missional person mm-hmm.
You're essentially committing to being family together and doing life.
Yeah.
Together.
And that supersedes a lot of the.
The things that we've already talked about, like time and think about you.
Well, you just said it's
Caesar Kalinowski (16:49):
so huge.
Heath.
I, I hope like, don't miss it.
If you're listening to this, what, what?
When you're starting a initial community or when you're committing to one,you're essentially committing to being family, to doing life together.
Heath Hollensbe (17:01):
Yeah.
Not like family B, but actually like, like not, not that God's family.
Yeah.
Like
Caesar Kalinowski (17:04):
I was just reading scripture the day it says, call no one on earth father because you have a father in heaven.
That's Jesus talking.
Hmm.
He's so serious about us understanding that our first family.
Is as part of God's family.
Yeah.
And that this earthly fleshly handful of people that looklike us, bear our last name, carry some of the same DNA.
Yeah.
It's all part of the bigger overarching family.
(17:26):
Right.
Hmm.
And so think about half of marriages where people commit to do life together and be family fail.
Yeah.
Over half.
Right.
So it's no surprise that Michel community life would bereally hard 'cause now you're not only getting married,
Heath Hollensbe (17:37):
it's the same and
Caesar Kalinowski (17:38):
having to take your spouse along for the ride.
You're trying to get everybody married on the same page.
Yeah.
That takes a work of God.
Yep.
It really, really does.
It's, it is hard.
This live in as a family of mission is a big commitment.
Yeah.
But it's one that Jesus promised to walk with us in.
That's good.
Yeah.
And And by the way, too, you're right.
Again, transitioning small groups that were pulledtogether for reasons other than discipleship and mission.
(18:00):
Yep.
And then asking folks to now commit to increasingly be a family.
You know, let's do mission together.
That's tough.
Sled man.
Yeah, it's so hard.
That's really hard.
Okay, so you've gotta start with the gospel and your gospel identity.
Kinda said that earlier, and this starts by believing that you're a part of a family.
I. Fact, God's family of missionary servants.
Now that carries such huge implication for missionariesand we're sent, ones we're sent out to, to do what?
(18:25):
To make disciples, to find the lost sheep, to bring family members to the table.
Find those people, those kids that are lost, bring 'em back to dad's table.
Serve people we're sent as disciples who make disciples to fill the world with God's glory.
Hmm.
Okay.
All that has to be grounded in your own heart first before you'll ever lead others.
In this or lead change at your church.
(18:46):
Sure.
And leaders will need to actually start living this way at home.
They They will.
They will.
Yeah.
Right.
So if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I want that for my church so bad.
Or like, I'm a small groups, you know, pastor, like, I want that so bad for our groups.
You have to live it.
You have to start living it.
Hmm.
Small, big, slow, fast.
You gotta get there.
You'll really need to model what you preach.
(19:06):
I'm reminded of Matthew 23, right?
Jesus says to the crowds and his disciples, the teachersof the law and the Pharisees, they sit in Moses' seat.
So you must be careful to do what they tell you.
So Jesus basically saying, Hey, when the teachers of the law and the Pharisees teach, listen up.
But then he goes on and he says, but don't do what they do.
'cause they don't practice what they preach.
Hmm.
And in fact, not only do they not practice what they preach, verse four, they tieup heavy, cumbersome loads, giant rocks, and they put them on people's shoulders.
(19:34):
But they themselves are not willing to lift a finger.
Wow.
Oh my God.
Some harsh words.
Like I, I, I feel like we're always trying to like, are we too hard on the show?
Like, and then I just read some of Jesus stuff.
It's like, nope.
Like we're crank it up.
We're so nice crank.
I'm like, we're gonna start cranking it up, man.
Let's quote a lot more red letter stuff.
Okay.
That's right.
So, sure.
This seems hard at first.
I know, but once you've experienced life in a gospel center community,like a family where you're starting to shed all your fear and
(19:57):
preference and just, you know, you're just checking the box once a week.
Yeah.
Oh man.
There's no going back.
Heath Hollensbe (20:02):
There's just no
Caesar Kalinowski (20:02):
going back.
Heath Hollensbe (20:03):
The, the lifestyle is just so fun and it's so cool to be following the spirit and how creative the spirit is and the, the relational stuff that you walk into.
And it's messy.
And like
Caesar Kalinowski (20:12):
we've said this whole episode, it is hard.
Yeah.
Oh, it's not easy.
It just is.
Again, I wanna, you know, just full honesty and disclosure, I won't let our friends and ourfamily here know that if they're at all interested in having me and Tina be their coaches Yeah.
For the next leg of their missional journey, we'd be honored.
We would really be honored to do it.
And if people are interested in having me put together a custom personal roadmap for them,like we interview, we talk, we get on video together, get to know your story, where you're
(20:35):
doing, what your challenges have been and your family, and we help you work it all out.
And then we help you get started living on mission together.
You get teaching, coaching, encouragement, all that stuff.
So if you're interested, man, we'd love to, we'd love to do it with you.
And you know, if not now, when.
If not now when.
So you can get all that information on my coaching page.
Just go to everyday disciple.com/coaching.
(20:57):
And there's a video there and it talks about how thewhole process works, and it is everything, right?
Sure.
A little application thing.
So doing the same things you've always done and expecting different results.
That's the definition of, uh, insanity, right?
That's right.
So let's make this the time that you and your family and those you leadin your church, start to experience the gospel in all of life and moving
and get you moving towards having vibrant, rich community together.
(21:18):
Okay?
So everyday disciple.com/coaching.
At least go and check it out and see what it could be like.
And, uh, and pray and see if God would have you.
Like, is this the time we're gonna finally start tomake a difference and make it a little less hard by it
Heath Hollensbe (21:31):
smell,
Caesar Kalinowski (21:32):
you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:32):
Yeah.
Wow.
And we're gonna continue by giving away anotherthing here on the show today, which is the big three.
And that's the big three takeaways that we'd love for you to walk away with, if nothing else.
And you get it as a printable PDF by going everyday disciple.com/big three.
Cesar, what are the big three for this week?
Someone told me recently
Caesar Kalinowski (21:49):
they print these off and have 'em in a binder, you know.
Oh, that's cool.
They get 'em every week, right?
Yeah.
Um, big three, like, don't miss this.
If anything else, first thing.
Uh, first thing is God has always desired that his people, his family, wouldlive together in such a way that the world would know what he's truly like.
Hmm.
And that's not hold up in a building somewhere, you know, once a week.
Right?
Sure.
This living a life on mission with God is the lifethat we are all created and then now save to live.
(22:15):
Hmm.
And this starts by believing that you're a part of a family of missionary servantssent as disciples of Jesus who make more disciples filling the world with God's glory.
And I know it sounds too good to be true, like Paul called it the mystery revealed, but it is true.
That's true of us in Christ.
We weren't saved just to kind of hang out and wait for heaven and go to church once in a while.
(22:36):
2.3 times a month or 1.7 or whatever.
It's exactly.
Oh, we get to live life Heath.
It's amazing.
Right?
Hmm.
Second, um, you're past church attendance.
Uh.
And or lukewarm Christian lifestyle doesn't change God's love for you, so it's never too late.
Okay?
He knows your heart and the plans he has from before timebegan to bless you and prosper you for your good and his glory.
(22:59):
So ask God to forgive any past complacency and lead youto truly live the life he desires for you and your family.
Start with prayer.
Start with talking to dad.
And, and he, he wants this for you all day, every day.
Yeah.
He really does.
That's so cool.
And he doesn't hold us, you know, there's no fault found, there's no condemnation.
God knows he's got the plan, right?
Yep.
And the third one is, I say don't, don't stay stuck.
(23:22):
Don't wait for some to get started making the changes that you really wanna see.
Okay?
Yeah.
So get the resources, get the training, get the coaching.
Doesn't have to be me, but get it.
Get started now that get whatever you need to confidently move forwardone step at a time toward being and making disciples as a lifestyle.
I'm telling you, it's a thrill ride.
It's the best life.
Jesus lived, the best human life that anyone could live, and we get to.
(23:44):
Yeah.
So make this the time that you and your family and those you and your church start to experiencethe gospel in all of life and really start to experience a rich, vibrant community of faith.
Okay, so good.
And you know, and again, I just wanna say, if you're interested,please check out my coachingPage@everydaydisciple.com slash coaching.
Heath Hollensbe (24:02):
Awesome.
Yep.
Alright.
Thanks for the big three.
Again, you get those by going everyday disciple.com/big three.
Could print 'em out and put 'em in a, put 'em in a binder or whatever.
I just,
Caesar Kalinowski (24:11):
yeah, I thought that was cool.
That is
Heath Hollensbe (24:13):
a cool.
We work hard to make that available, and so it's nice that people are taking advantage of that.
If you haven't joined our Facebook group, go to facebook.com up in the search bar, type inEveryday Disciple Podcast, Caesar, or I will invite you into the fold thousands of people.
Yeah, and it's
Caesar Kalinowski (24:28):
so
Heath Hollensbe (24:28):
cool.
Caesar Kalinowski (24:28):
Yeah, it's growing all the time, so it's so fun.
It's please be a part of that.
And then if you've been paying attention, you realize that a lotof the episodes and what we talk about come straight from you.
Yeah.
Straight from the people in the group and you know who are listening to the show.
Yep.
And they want to know about it.
So we'll try to bring a gospel perspective and missional perspective to all of that.
Yeah.
Love it.
Heath Hollensbe (24:46):
It's fun.
It's a good group.
Alright, thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of freediscipleship resources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember.
You really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Yeah.
Living like this as a family on mission with others in communities isa big commitment, but it's one that Jesus promised to walk with us in.
And you're right, brother.
Transitioning small groups that were pulled together for reasons other than discipleship andmission, and asking folks to now commit to increasingly live like a family together mission.
That can be some tough sledding.
It's hard.
You've gotta start with the gospel and our true gospel identity.
(00:25):
That has to be grounded in our own hearts first before we'll ever lead anyone else orlead change at our churches and, and leaders will actually need to start living this way
at home and in their neighborhoods with others as the rings of relationship move outward.
They'll really need to model what.
They preach and sure, this seems hard at first, but once you'veexperienced life in a gospel centered community like a family, there's
(00:48):
no going back to just checking the church box once a week on Sunday.
Heath Hollensbe (01:03):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski (01:22):
I'm glad to be here with ya.
He, how you doing man?
What's going on?
Heath Hollensbe (01:25):
Alright man.
So, uh.
I've actually made a move this week.
This was my last week serving in the institution.
You know, we've always talked about in in the institutional church, we've always talkedabout, oh, I was wondering like the institution, like have you been in prison for time?
Yeah, I've been in prison.
Little reform going on.
Yeah, so I've always lived this kind of bifurcated, like living missionallythroughout the week and in our neighborhood with intentionality, but then
(01:46):
also serving in a local church and not, so now I'm kind of a free agent.
I get to.
I get to out,
Caesar Kalinowski (01:51):
not that you'll never do that again.
No.
Never say never.
Right.
But I know that you've made a transition in months past, but you also were still serving there.
Yeah.
Kind of both.
And by owing it up a while.
And so now we're, that's a pretty big deal.
Heath Hollensbe (02:01):
Yeah.
First time.
I mean, this is the first time in blush response.
Happy.
Yeah.
Really happy.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:05):
I know obviously your schedule and time with your kids is gonna change a manly
Heath Hollensbe (02:08):
Yeah.
It'll be the first time in.
Six years where I've had a two day weekend.
Isn't that crazy?
Caesar Kalinowski (02:16):
Well, and ever since you kind of took on the, the, the day job and sort of went BiVo, it's like you doubled down.
It wasn't even like, it wasn't even like, I'm getting free, you know, like, anyway, soI'm free if you see me a, you've been a good servant brother to your local community.
You really have.
It's been fun.
I know they're gonna.
Hard to see you go Well, anyway, it's been good.
Right?
All right, let's dive in, man.
Let's, let's dive into this week's
Heath Hollensbe (02:35):
delio.
Um, okay.
Okay.
So this whole missional thing, um, I'm constantly surprised at how often Ihear people that say they're living on mission or living a missional lifestyle.
I. And I'm thinking, yes.
Yeah.
Right.
Your lives don't reflect it at all.
Maybe.
So maybe we could start with kind of painting thestrokes of what it really does mean to be missional.
How would you impact this?
Caesar Kalinowski (02:56):
Yeah.
I like, I like this episode, uh, and where we're headingtoday, Heath, because it is sort of a back to basics things.
But, and, and if anybody's like, uh, I'm moving on.
I'm past that.
It's like, no, you're not.
Okay.
And guess what?
Someone's gonna join your community soon.
That doesn't know any of this.
Yeah, exactly.
And unless you know how to articulate it and you know, whatever, or if you're listeningand you're like, or leading small group or you're leading all the small groups in
(03:19):
your church, this basic stuff is the stuff that I return to over and over and over.
Mm-hmm.
So, but we're kind of coming at it from that angle, like you said, is why is this so hard?
Yeah.
So, but I love your, I love your like, intro here.
Like what is, what do we mean by missional, you know, how do we, how do we unpack that?
So, um, what.
What?
What we're talking about is our identity in Christ.
Okay?
(03:39):
We say we're a family of missionary servants sent asdisciples who make disciples and our identity now.
Flowing from God.
Mm-hmm.
The source now flows out into all the normal rhythms of life as we make disciples whomake disciples accomplishing God's eternal purpose of filling the world with his glory.
Yeah.
Now that's a, that's a mouthful, but.
(04:00):
That's very, very different than like, oh, we had a Minal community.
What is it?
Oh, it's our small group.
But now we, once a year, we go and serve, no, no, no, no.
Are you believing your identity?
Wow.
Are you grounded in it?
Are you saturated in your Trinitarian identity as a part of God's family?
A missionary servants out making disciples, and that's your lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
It's not like an add-on.
It's not a program.
(04:20):
It's not a group that gets together once a week just to talkabout Bible stuff or churchy stuff or pray for one another.
Those are all good things.
Sure.
It's not just a Bible study.
It's an increasingly.
Vibrant life together on the mission of God, which is to fill the world with his glory.
And how do we do that?
Jesus gave us the mission, the, you know, the common mission.
Go make disciples.
Yep.
Right?
(04:40):
Fill the world with me.
What I'm like, 'cause I'm the glory of the father.
That's what we're talking about when we talk about living a missional lifestyle.
So this isn't really for the faint of heart.
And this is probably why it's so hard because I'll tell you what's a wholelot easier than letting God change your belief around your identity and all
the rhythms of your life and radically reorienting your time use and all that.
Yep.
You know what's a whole lot easier checking the box on Sunday, once a week.
(05:03):
Totally.
Like, you know, I said that prayer in, you know, back in, uh, youth groupback at the camp that one summer, you know, I even shed a tear or two.
I meant it, you know, that's, that was important.
You gotta mean it, you know, God knows if you mean it,
, Heath Hollensbe: you get the stars for perfect
attendance.
Yeah.
That's a whole lot easier than I'm gonna now.
Lead myself and my family and submit to this work of thespirit and all of life and radically see my life reprioritized.
Heath Hollensbe (05:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:25):
That's what we're ultimately talking about.
But, but it's hard and it does.
It's not a light switch.
Sure.
We've talked about in the show before, Michel community lifeis not like a light switch where we just go, you know what?
I was listening to this podcast, convinced me click.
We're living it.
I wish
Heath Hollensbe (05:37):
it's still, I mean, we've done this for years, like it's awfully difficult.
Yeah.
You know, one thing that I constantly go back to is just how difficultthis lifestyle is, because it really is a reorientation of how you
prioritize nearly everything in your life, how you voucher time.
Eventually it all comes under the gospel, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's a community that's not necessarily your bloodfamily, but you have to start taking into account.
(06:00):
Times and, and how does this serve the community better, and how do we adjust our schedules?
Mm-hmm.
How do we adjust our vacation so that we can actually be together?
How do we adjust our family interest or activities or spending, you know?
Yeah.
It all really does.
Come into this crockpot of different groups coming together and actually trying to figure this out.
But what you just described is exactly what
Caesar Kalinowski (06:19):
we see in scripture.
Yeah.
It's exactly what we see Jesus doing with his disciples and those thathe hung out with his clothes, like his ikas, his pals, and then when he.
Ascends goes to the father and sends the spirit back.
Then we see his disciples and the, and the churches thatthey started in, the communities, the KOAs that grew.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
This is exactly what they were doing.
(06:39):
They were, they were all their hearts, their lives, their stuff,their schedule, everything you just listed was all submitted to Jesus.
Hmm.
It wasn't like, Hey, I'm living my, and, and I'll just jump ahead back to likecurrent time I'm living the American dream life where I, you know, I get everything.
That everybody else has bigger, louder, more, faster, sooner.
Sure.
And I wedge in a little bit of Jesus and all.
(07:01):
Well, no.
And, and and, and it's not just, I have to figure out how to do this myself and help my,my spouse and my kids understand the, this beautiful life that we've actually been given.
But now I have to help others do it.
It's gonna be very, very slow.
Heath Hollensbe (07:14):
Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:15):
And it's gonna have to be motivated by the gospel.
It really will be.
Heath Hollensbe (07:18):
Yeah.
You're absolutely right, ma'am.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:20):
But it, it is tough.
So, I mean, let's, we're agreeing right at the front end is, youknow, the, the title of the show is, why is Michel Living so hard?
It is hard.
Well, it's because it's really a whole lot of dying to self and preference, and evenwrong teaching about the gospel and what it means to be a Christian and why Jesus came.
There's a lot of unlearning that then.
Leads to new learning and freedom and you're realizing,wow, the gospel's so much bigger than I thought.
(07:44):
But it's simple.
The story of God is big.
It's powerful, but it, it's simple to understand
Heath Hollensbe (07:48):
and explain and what have we been doing?
And so, yeah.
So in your mind, what do you think are some of maybe the biggest challenges?
I. When trying to get started or to even stay living missionally with others in community?
Well,
Caesar Kalinowski (08:01):
besides, you know, our well-worn patterns of consumerism and complacency, maybe.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's just easy to kinda kick back, right?
Yeah.
Uh, you know, complacency with the way our life, our Christian life's beenfor so long, um, there are a handful of things that I've seen that are part
of why it's so hard to get started or, or part sustain it, like you said.
Okay.
So first thing that comes to mind is, um.
(08:23):
And this kinda speaks to, to married couples.
Right.
And that's probably most of our listenership.
Sure.
Um, is not being on the same page together as a couple.
Heath Hollensbe (08:31):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:31):
You, you just, you know, I would say that's
Heath Hollensbe (08:32):
happened in our life.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:33):
Yeah.
And, and it's like, you know, I, I talk to people almost everyday where one spouse is, is really leaning into missional living.
Mm-hmm.
And the other one is not, they want their time, their houses, their refuge.
They don't want anybody, you know, sinning all over their kids.
Yep.
They don't want their house a mess.
They, they, everything's prioritized.
I'm gonna go to church on Sunday.
I love Jesus.
(08:53):
I'm good.
Yep.
And you're, so that's, that's hard.
Yeah.
So before you're gonna like, oh, I'm gonna blow it up and we'regonna have this huge Michel community, but my spouse isn't on board.
Yep.
So my kids feel like they get to vote.
Well, we're all gonna follow our complacent hearts.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly.
Our, so, so that's the first one is how do you get,you know, you gotta get together on the same page.
(09:13):
Yeah.
That's been
Heath Hollensbe (09:14):
the one thing for us was, uh.
Was just the fact that I love being an extrovert and I get, I comealive with people and parties and, and my wife loves the quietness.
And so for, for me, I could go seven days a week having peopleover 'cause it's Well, and she's been home all day with a crowd.
Yeah, exactly.
And she's like, so she's anyone here?
She's doing a great job.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:32):
Yeah.
Of extroverting it up for introverted heart, you know, so she definitely needs some time.
So that.
So you bring up a good point.
So, so it's not that she can't do those things.
She does 'em all day.
It's not that she isn't in community with others, but she has to be very, very understanding andyou need to be very understanding to get on the same page of, well, when does she get to recharge?
Heath Hollensbe (09:50):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:50):
You know, you're right because you recharge.
Probably going, and I just got done with work and I can't wait to get some people over here.
Yeah.
She's like, I've been with people.
I can't wait.
He's coming home and I can't wait to go hide for a while.
That's fair.
Right, exactly.
All right.
Here's another one.
It makes it hard is to get started or to sustain this.
Is it it not experiencing or modeling this life with your own family?
(10:11):
Hmm.
Or your husband or wife or kids or whatever?
Uh, first, uh, so often and, and I, uh, guilty.
Okay, guilty here.
Um, people will say, you know, we're starting this Michel community, and theykind of throw a lasso around a bunch of church friends and maybe a couple of.
Neighbors and stuff and they go, boom, that's our Michel community.
And then they start trying to proceed to getting 'em to live ways that they've never even lived.
(10:32):
Yeah.
Like we're gonna have these killer meals together every week.
Hey, tell me about the killer meals you have at your own dinner table every week.
Yeah.
Oh, we barely eat together.
Yeah.
Or we, that's an issue.
Or we just throw food down.
It's just food.
Yeah.
Like, okay, wait a minute.
Back the train up.
So that's a, that's a huge barrier to getting other people to live a certain way.
You've never even lived.
Yeah.
So I always say like, Hey, this starts in the mirror.
(10:52):
This starts at your own table.
Yeah, let's create some new rhythms.
Let's get some new beliefs going, understanding of ouridentity and how it's starting to flow into our nuclear family.
And then we'll start to invite people's.
Uh, people into those rings.
Yep.
Right.
Instead of like, I don't live this way, let's throw aass around a bunch of people and shoot 'em to death.
Yeah.
You gonna lose.
Yeah.
You gotta be a
Heath Hollensbe (11:11):
practitioner in your own family.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
First,
Caesar Kalinowski (11:14):
you know.
Right.
Because that's your model, that's your first mission field, so to speak.
Right?
Yep.
Alright.
Here's another thing that kills a lot of people, is starting too fastand, and trying to talk a bunch of people into new life stuff and rhythms.
Before their heart catch catches up and it's rightly motivated by the gospel.
Hmm.
So even if you have been starting to live this in your own household
Heath Hollensbe (11:36):
Yep.
Caesar Kalinowski (11:36):
And then you go, okay, boom.
And you see, and I, God, I hear it so many times, people are like,we had all these people from church and we told 'em about what we're
doing and they were all excited and no one wants to do anything.
Hmm.
Because as soon as we told 'em it was gonna be more than one night aweek, they were like, I don't even know if I can do one night a week.
It's like, wait a minute.
You can't be with Jesus and, and live out what you were created for.
And Jesus died for more than a a, a day a week.
(11:58):
Well, when are you gonna become a Christian?
Yeah.
You know,
Heath Hollensbe (12:00):
it's like there's some issues there.
Yeah.
What is
Caesar Kalinowski (12:01):
going on?
So, starting too fast and trying to talk people into stuff that their heart hasn't caught up to.
It always, it always ends up with finger pointing and hurt feelings.
Yep.
You're right.
And, and a fizzle, you know?
Right.
Yep.
And sometimes it's like, well, not everybody did.
So now we just hang out with these two couples.
'cause they agree with us.
It's like, oh, it's a, it's a gospel motivation thing.
Yeah.
That's, you gotta start there.
Yep.
(12:22):
All right.
Another thing that I've seen that's like a kind of a challenge ora barrier is not having accountability to actually get started.
Hmm.
Like so many people, you know, I run into, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're really gonna start living this way.
Like, I mean, I know it, I've been listening to your show, or I read your first book, or whatever.
You know, it's like, we're really, really gonna get it.
It's like tick, tick, tick.
Years go by.
(12:42):
Yeah.
You know, like having some accountability to get started to stick to your plan.
Hmm.
Having someone else who like brings accountability via the gospel.
Yep.
Right?
So it's not like, Hey, I thought you were gonna have a party this weekend with your neighbors.
It's like, wait a minute.
What?
You know, like, let's, let's let the gospel inform what was going on in your heart.
So you canceled that thing, right?
Yeah.
Um.
Yeah, because we wanna be motivated, rightly.
You need to have some good motivation and accountability, encouragement that's ongoing.
(13:06):
Mm-hmm.
You really do.
I'll tell you what, in, in too many, too many churches and the thousandsof emails that I've gotten where people are like, do you, we live here.
Do you know someone who lives this way?
We gotta find a community.
We gotta find a plan.
We want to get going.
We don't know what we're doing.
You know?
Mm. Like, like we've been talking about it forever.
We've tried a few things, a little start, stop, start, stop.
And.
I, yeah, I don't know.
(13:27):
We, we keep blowing it off then years go by, so yeah,getting some accountability and some encouragement's.
Really, really huge man.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (13:33):
absolutely.
Trying to do
Caesar Kalinowski (13:34):
something that's like, you're gonna die now to a whole lot of stuff and your church knows nothing about it,
Heath Hollensbe (13:39):
it's gonna be almost impossible.
Caesar Kalinowski (13:40):
All right.
Yep.
And then, and I think, I think last two is, and this is big, is to have a trustedperson or couple in your life that not only brings you accountability, you
know, and encouragement, but that lives the life that you're wanting to live.
Right.
They're already living it.
Sure.
And, and they can walk alongside you for the whole thing.
That's super important.
Yeah.
Otherwise, people just feel like I, we're out here drifting.
(14:02):
I hear it all the time.
Like we felt so alone.
We're in a huge church.
And there's people hanging around.
But we just felt so alone because the things that we're learning andthe things that God's birthing in our hearts, no one's ever done before.
We've never seen them.
Hmm.
So most people weren't discipled in a way that had the gospel speak into and shape all of life.
Yep.
That leads to living now on mission.
You're gonna need some help to really move into this.
(14:22):
So, you know, just hoping for change, hoping for magic to happen, or lightning the strike.
It won't produce the change in lifestyle that you desire.
Yeah.
The life that Jesus came to give us all.
So, you know, find a coach or a mentor if you're serious.
Right?
Yeah.
And, and, and you know, I'm not hiding anything.
That's part of what we do, right?
Yeah.
It's part of what we've given our life to.
Tina and I is coaching and mentoring people in this.
(14:44):
We live this way.
We know how to make disciples.
We can help you.
Yeah.
And then be a huge privilege if you wanted us to anyway.
So that, that's a big thing though, is just trying to go alone, muddlingthrough it, you know, it's like, well, I'd like to have a coach, but
you know, that's gonna cost a couple hundred bucks or something like.
Come on.
How much are you spending on a million other things that are not producing lifeand, and, and freedom and training your kids on how to live out the kingdom and
(15:05):
all I go, yeah, just please reprioritize a little bit towards your spiritual lives.
This is important.
Heath Hollensbe (15:10):
Yeah.
I was thinking as you're talking there about some of the recent things that have been,uh, just in my own personal kind of heart and family, uh, rattling around as far as
difficulty in the missional life and, uh, the two situations that pop up initially.
One is that we.
We're part of a group of, of people that had a lot of family in the area.
(15:30):
And so it was like, yeah, we'll commit to our missionalcommunity except for when there's holidays and family vacations.
'cause then we actually go be with our real family and thenwe, so 80% of our free time gets sucked up by our bio family.
Family,
Caesar Kalinowski (15:41):
which you're supposed to be good family, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Heath Hollensbe (15:43):
Or the other thing is, uh, this, this sense of, um.
Uh, communities having real issues because the network of friends were so varied and far apart.
So different circles like, well, I've got work and thenI've got guys I do this with, and then guys I do this with.
Yeah.
And my wife's got this group, and then we've got our church group, and then we've got.
So I know a lot of, uh, I know a lot of churches have like traditional smallgroups that were sort of formed based off what night of the Week worked
(16:09):
with certain people at the church to get together and or they tried to
Caesar Kalinowski (16:12):
solve that problem that you just said.
There's, everybody's so different.
So let's just put people in the same exact age and stage of life andguys who like biking and guys d biking, but they like hiking instead.
Or like, they only like baseball, so they'll get, you know, andthen when baseball season's over, like we won't see anybody.
Yeah, exactly.
It wasn't a real community.
It was just like you serving your.
Like needs,
Heath Hollensbe (16:29):
it's like too many filters.
And then you all look alike, right?
Yeah.
So when you commit though to, to actually doing this missionalcommunity together, the life of a missional person mm-hmm.
You're essentially committing to being family together and doing life.
Yeah.
Together.
And that supersedes a lot of the.
The things that we've already talked about, like time and think about you.
Well, you just said it's
Caesar Kalinowski (16:49):
so huge.
Heath.
I, I hope like, don't miss it.
If you're listening to this, what, what?
When you're starting a initial community or when you're committing to one,you're essentially committing to being family, to doing life together.
Heath Hollensbe (17:01):
Yeah.
Not like family B, but actually like, like not, not that God's family.
Yeah.
Like
Caesar Kalinowski (17:04):
I was just reading scripture the day it says, call no one on earth father because you have a father in heaven.
That's Jesus talking.
Hmm.
He's so serious about us understanding that our first family.
Is as part of God's family.
Yeah.
And that this earthly fleshly handful of people that looklike us, bear our last name, carry some of the same DNA.
Yeah.
It's all part of the bigger overarching family.
(17:26):
Right.
Hmm.
And so think about half of marriages where people commit to do life together and be family fail.
Yeah.
Over half.
Right.
So it's no surprise that Michel community life would bereally hard 'cause now you're not only getting married,
Heath Hollensbe (17:37):
it's the same and
Caesar Kalinowski (17:38):
having to take your spouse along for the ride.
You're trying to get everybody married on the same page.
Yeah.
That takes a work of God.
Yep.
It really, really does.
It's, it is hard.
This live in as a family of mission is a big commitment.
Yeah.
But it's one that Jesus promised to walk with us in.
That's good.
Yeah.
And And by the way, too, you're right.
Again, transitioning small groups that were pulledtogether for reasons other than discipleship and mission.
(18:00):
Yep.
And then asking folks to now commit to increasingly be a family.
You know, let's do mission together.
That's tough.
Sled man.
Yeah, it's so hard.
That's really hard.
Okay, so you've gotta start with the gospel and your gospel identity.
Kinda said that earlier, and this starts by believing that you're a part of a family.
I. Fact, God's family of missionary servants.
Now that carries such huge implication for missionariesand we're sent, ones we're sent out to, to do what?
(18:25):
To make disciples, to find the lost sheep, to bring family members to the table.
Find those people, those kids that are lost, bring 'em back to dad's table.
Serve people we're sent as disciples who make disciples to fill the world with God's glory.
Hmm.
Okay.
All that has to be grounded in your own heart first before you'll ever lead others.
In this or lead change at your church.
(18:46):
Sure.
And leaders will need to actually start living this way at home.
They They will.
They will.
Yeah.
Right.
So if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I want that for my church so bad.
Or like, I'm a small groups, you know, pastor, like, I want that so bad for our groups.
You have to live it.
You have to start living it.
Hmm.
Small, big, slow, fast.
You gotta get there.
You'll really need to model what you preach.
(19:06):
I'm reminded of Matthew 23, right?
Jesus says to the crowds and his disciples, the teachersof the law and the Pharisees, they sit in Moses' seat.
So you must be careful to do what they tell you.
So Jesus basically saying, Hey, when the teachers of the law and the Pharisees teach, listen up.
But then he goes on and he says, but don't do what they do.
'cause they don't practice what they preach.
Hmm.
And in fact, not only do they not practice what they preach, verse four, they tieup heavy, cumbersome loads, giant rocks, and they put them on people's shoulders.
(19:34):
But they themselves are not willing to lift a finger.
Wow.
Oh my God.
Some harsh words.
Like I, I, I feel like we're always trying to like, are we too hard on the show?
Like, and then I just read some of Jesus stuff.
It's like, nope.
Like we're crank it up.
We're so nice crank.
I'm like, we're gonna start cranking it up, man.
Let's quote a lot more red letter stuff.
Okay.
That's right.
So, sure.
This seems hard at first.
I know, but once you've experienced life in a gospel center community,like a family where you're starting to shed all your fear and
(19:57):
preference and just, you know, you're just checking the box once a week.
Yeah.
Oh man.
There's no going back.
Heath Hollensbe (20:02):
There's just no
Caesar Kalinowski (20:02):
going back.
Heath Hollensbe (20:03):
The, the lifestyle is just so fun and it's so cool to be following the spirit and how creative the spirit is and the, the relational stuff that you walk into.
And it's messy.
And like
Caesar Kalinowski (20:12):
we've said this whole episode, it is hard.
Yeah.
Oh, it's not easy.
It just is.
Again, I wanna, you know, just full honesty and disclosure, I won't let our friends and ourfamily here know that if they're at all interested in having me and Tina be their coaches Yeah.
For the next leg of their missional journey, we'd be honored.
We would really be honored to do it.
And if people are interested in having me put together a custom personal roadmap for them,like we interview, we talk, we get on video together, get to know your story, where you're
(20:35):
doing, what your challenges have been and your family, and we help you work it all out.
And then we help you get started living on mission together.
You get teaching, coaching, encouragement, all that stuff.
So if you're interested, man, we'd love to, we'd love to do it with you.
And you know, if not now, when.
If not now when.
So you can get all that information on my coaching page.
Just go to everyday disciple.com/coaching.
(20:57):
And there's a video there and it talks about how thewhole process works, and it is everything, right?
Sure.
A little application thing.
So doing the same things you've always done and expecting different results.
That's the definition of, uh, insanity, right?
That's right.
So let's make this the time that you and your family and those you leadin your church, start to experience the gospel in all of life and moving
and get you moving towards having vibrant, rich community together.
(21:18):
Okay?
So everyday disciple.com/coaching.
At least go and check it out and see what it could be like.
And, uh, and pray and see if God would have you.
Like, is this the time we're gonna finally start tomake a difference and make it a little less hard by it
Heath Hollensbe (21:31):
smell,
Caesar Kalinowski (21:32):
you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:32):
Yeah.
Wow.
And we're gonna continue by giving away anotherthing here on the show today, which is the big three.
And that's the big three takeaways that we'd love for you to walk away with, if nothing else.
And you get it as a printable PDF by going everyday disciple.com/big three.
Cesar, what are the big three for this week?
Someone told me recently
Caesar Kalinowski (21:49):
they print these off and have 'em in a binder, you know.
Oh, that's cool.
They get 'em every week, right?
Yeah.
Um, big three, like, don't miss this.
If anything else, first thing.
Uh, first thing is God has always desired that his people, his family, wouldlive together in such a way that the world would know what he's truly like.
Hmm.
And that's not hold up in a building somewhere, you know, once a week.
Right?
Sure.
This living a life on mission with God is the lifethat we are all created and then now save to live.
(22:15):
Hmm.
And this starts by believing that you're a part of a family of missionary servantssent as disciples of Jesus who make more disciples filling the world with God's glory.
And I know it sounds too good to be true, like Paul called it the mystery revealed, but it is true.
That's true of us in Christ.
We weren't saved just to kind of hang out and wait for heaven and go to church once in a while.
(22:36):
2.3 times a month or 1.7 or whatever.
It's exactly.
Oh, we get to live life Heath.
It's amazing.
Right?
Hmm.
Second, um, you're past church attendance.
Uh.
And or lukewarm Christian lifestyle doesn't change God's love for you, so it's never too late.
Okay?
He knows your heart and the plans he has from before timebegan to bless you and prosper you for your good and his glory.
(22:59):
So ask God to forgive any past complacency and lead youto truly live the life he desires for you and your family.
Start with prayer.
Start with talking to dad.
And, and he, he wants this for you all day, every day.
Yeah.
He really does.
That's so cool.
And he doesn't hold us, you know, there's no fault found, there's no condemnation.
God knows he's got the plan, right?
Yep.
And the third one is, I say don't, don't stay stuck.
(23:22):
Don't wait for some to get started making the changes that you really wanna see.
Okay?
Yeah.
So get the resources, get the training, get the coaching.
Doesn't have to be me, but get it.
Get started now that get whatever you need to confidently move forwardone step at a time toward being and making disciples as a lifestyle.
I'm telling you, it's a thrill ride.
It's the best life.
Jesus lived, the best human life that anyone could live, and we get to.
(23:44):
Yeah.
So make this the time that you and your family and those you and your church start to experiencethe gospel in all of life and really start to experience a rich, vibrant community of faith.
Okay, so good.
And you know, and again, I just wanna say, if you're interested,please check out my coachingPage@everydaydisciple.com slash coaching.
Heath Hollensbe (24:02):
Awesome.
Yep.
Alright.
Thanks for the big three.
Again, you get those by going everyday disciple.com/big three.
Could print 'em out and put 'em in a, put 'em in a binder or whatever.
I just,
Caesar Kalinowski (24:11):
yeah, I thought that was cool.
That is
Heath Hollensbe (24:13):
a cool.
We work hard to make that available, and so it's nice that people are taking advantage of that.
If you haven't joined our Facebook group, go to facebook.com up in the search bar, type inEveryday Disciple Podcast, Caesar, or I will invite you into the fold thousands of people.
Yeah, and it's
Caesar Kalinowski (24:28):
so
Heath Hollensbe (24:28):
cool.
Caesar Kalinowski (24:28):
Yeah, it's growing all the time, so it's so fun.
It's please be a part of that.
And then if you've been paying attention, you realize that a lotof the episodes and what we talk about come straight from you.
Yeah.
Straight from the people in the group and you know who are listening to the show.
Yep.
And they want to know about it.
So we'll try to bring a gospel perspective and missional perspective to all of that.
Yeah.
Love it.
Heath Hollensbe (24:46):
It's fun.
It's a good group.
Alright, thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of freediscipleship resources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember.
You really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!