April 14, 2025 • 27 mins
The difference between introverts and extroverts is one of the most misunderstood aspects of personality. So many people get it wrong, leading to myths and assumptions that just don’t hold up.
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’re setting the record straight. We’ll break down the biggest misconceptions and uncover how both introverts and extroverts play a vital role in living together as a family on mission.
The truth is, we all have moments when we crave solitude and quiet—Jesus certainly did. And at times, even the most introverted among us step into social settings and engage with others—just like Jesus often did. Understanding this balance is key to thriving together.
In This Episode You'll Learn:- How introversion has nothing to do with “being shy”
- Why extroverts don’t always have to be the life of the party
- How spouses that are on opposite ends of this can better understand each other
- Ways culture has taught us to hide our self-love behind these distinctions
- Why we need each other to be more fully like Jesus and make disciples
Get started here… From this episode: "Remember, whether introverted or extroverted God has gifted you differently than others AND he knows who will be a good fit for you relationally. Let God lead you to those “people of peace” who will love you for who you are. Extroverts are great for drawing a crowd, and introverts are more naturally drawn to fewer folks but go deeper into relationship. We need both in our missional communities."
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please subscribe and leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Coaching with Caesar and Tina in discipleship and missional living. Free Discipleship and Missional Resources
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:01):
One's not better than the other.
They're just different.
But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Sure.
And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's actually
Heath Hollensbe (00:10):
super helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
She can't figure out why.
For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, there'stimes where these, if you're wired completely different.
(00:36):
There's the clash of the two.
And so my wife, and I'll talk quite a bit, because we operate so differentlythat it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
People listening are like, I can't
Caesar Kalinowski (00:45):
under, I don't even relate.
I'm the only one on planet Earth like this.
You're only guy,
Heath Hollensbe (00:48):
you and
Caesar Kalinowski (00:48):
Kathleen.
So weird.
Heath Hollensbe (01:01):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski (01:20):
Hello.
Hello, Heath.
Are you, I'm gonna just go right for it.
Are you an extrovert or an introvert?
I have, I don't think any introvert in me.
100% Extrover.
You're way out there.
Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty close to that too.
I did do an assessment recently again, just to see, you know.
Yeah.
And I think I cheated it though 'cause like I know what the kind ofquestions they're asking, but I was still even in cheating it, you
(01:41):
know, trying to like seem nicer or something to seem more moderate.
Yeah.
Or something.
Yeah.
I wanna be like Jesus 'cause his needle has to be right in the middle or something.
I don't know.
Heath Hollensbe (01:49):
Yeah.
No, we're, this is actually a really fun conversation I think.
And it's gonna provide, I know for me in my marriage, a lot of clarity 'cause my wife is.
Whatever.
I am extreme extrovert, she's extreme introvert, which leads to issues and frustrations.
Uh, yeah.
And not know how to understand one another.
Um, well, they're, we're wired pretty differently.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:08):
Especially when it comes to social interaction.
Right.
Heath Hollensbe (02:10):
You know, what I'm finding is that the topic of introvert extrovert is often really misunderstood.
The basis of, of how we even define what each is.
Yeah.
Very much so.
The distinctions are not accurate and so.
No one seems to really understand, almost nobody, these differences in personalities.
Do you have, uh, have you experienced that as well?
(02:31):
It's like we're starting on the wrong foot.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:33):
I certainly have, and like a lot of things when it comes to like personality assessments or preferences in life, we assume like the worst of people who are different than us.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, like I really like hanging out with extroverts surprise, you know what I mean?
Yeah, sure.
And then before you understand some of these things, youdon't know why, you just go like, nah, I really like that guy.
Nah, nah, not him much.
Not much, you know, but.
(02:53):
Actually, the truth is both are really, really needed for healthy community, for living together.
Like a mission, right?
Yep.
Because there's all kinds of people in the world, and so as we're like discipleswho make disciples and all that, we really need to understand this better.
And I, it's a bit of a, I wouldn't say it's hot button, like on TV kind of news, youknow, I result over it, but when I've spoken about it or written about it before.
(03:14):
I always get tons of mail.
Yeah.
People are freed up and other people are like super offended by it 'cause they kinda got nailed.
Sure.
You know, so, and those, and I think our listeners today are gonna know whatI'm saying, like we're, I'm gonna nail, I'm gonna nail this, but I'm gonna
be fair, I'm gonna like both sides 'cause I wanna bring the gospel into it.
Like there is really a thing behind the thing here when itcomes to, uh, understanding introversion and extroversion.
But you're right.
(03:35):
I think most people don't really understand it.
Yeah.
They really don't.
Heath Hollensbe (03:38):
Yeah.
What we've always said, our mantra has been is how to get faith to fit into every area of your life.
So why would we leave it out of how we're wired?
Yeah.
As far as extroverts or introverts.
And this one can change a lot for us pretty quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's, what I like to do usually is start off with defining some definitions.
Good.
And I think that most of our listeners are probably, I would say veryfew are unaware with the whole introvert extrovert conversation at all.
Caesar Kalinowski (04:01):
But, um, well, everybody, everybody assumes they like, this is who I am.
Yeah, exactly.
But they don't necessarily know what it really means.
Yeah.
Maybe you can unpack this whole.
Give some definitions to Okay.
To these phrases.
Little history lesson here.
Fun.
A very short one.
Um, so extroversion and introversion are, um, are these preferencesthat we have originally used in a personality inventory that was
(04:24):
created like in the twenties by this Swiss psychologist named Carl Jung.
Heath Hollensbe (04:29):
Okay.
And
Caesar Kalinowski (04:29):
so people that like are into psychology or psychiatry or anything that they would, they would know who Carl Jung is.
Um, but he's the guy who kind of first coined that and started to identify preferences.
Uh, within our personality types.
Okay.
Most people today may be more familiar with these termsin connection with the Myers-Brigg type inventory.
Sure.
A lot of people at work or even maybe through church orteam building exercises they've done in Myers-Briggs,
Heath Hollensbe (04:53):
which is like the ENFP or ENFJ or I-N-F-E-N-T.
Caesar Kalinowski (04:55):
Yeah.
All that stuff, right?
Myers Briggs.
Yeah.
I I like to call it the Briggs and Stratton.
Let's just see the name of a lawnmower engine or something.
Right.
Um, yeah.
And the, these un these terms though are unfortunately.
They're kind of outmoded because, not 'cause they're not valuable, because they're misunderstoodand misused in that extroversion iss not about being loud or the life of the party.
Heath Hollensbe (05:18):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:19):
And introversion is not about being shy or antisocial.
I. But that's actually just the beginning of starting to understand this.
Okay.
Heath Hollensbe (05:27):
Un unfortunately that's the way I've always heard it put or taught is that I hear people using extrovert or introvert as excuses as to
why they are a certain way or don't like doing certain things with others.
So like, yeah, I don't like, uh, I don't like going out to baseball games 'cause I'm an introvert.
And you're going like, okay, well, that, that might not be it.
It's more about how we're filled and we'll, we'll talk about it in a second.
(05:47):
Right.
But, um, I'm sure you
Caesar Kalinowski (05:49):
know what I mean.
Yeah.
So these preferences either being, you know, more extroverted or more introverted.
Um, actually, and, and this is what it was originally too, like when Carl Jung was writing about it.
Sure.
They actually have to do with how people get their energy and recharge emotionally and mentally.
Hmm.
Okay.
It's not a social preference per se.
(06:10):
Here's what's going on.
Extroverts draw their energy from other people and interaction.
Heath Hollensbe (06:15):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:15):
While introverts draw their energy from within.
Heath Hollensbe (06:19):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:20):
Right.
So they do that within themselves and through reflection.
Heath Hollensbe (06:24):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:24):
It's about how you recharge.
It's not about how many people you like to be around.
Heath Hollensbe (06:28):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:29):
Okay.
It's important to understand that there are times when, youknow, all of us feel more introverted and need to be alone.
Right.
Or seek a quiet place.
I seem to remember Jesus doing that from time to time.
Heath Hollensbe (06:39):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:40):
Right.
Um, there are also times when even the most introverted person will go toa party and they'll function socially and they'll have a good time again.
Jesus did this pretty often as well.
He threw loads, loads of parties, was at parties all the time.
We all actually possess elements of both introversion and extroversion.
Heath Hollensbe (06:57):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:57):
It's just that we're gonna kind of have a primary or dominant preference.
And it has really though, more to do with how we recharge, how we refuel.
So
Heath Hollensbe (07:06):
it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like a car, right?
You go to parties all the time.
The introvert to fill up the gas tank is going, I'm on fumes.
I need to spend some time alone and reflect.
And that fills up the gas tank so that when partiesarise and stuff like that, they have the energy right.
To go into those things.
Yep.
Okay.
That's right.
So and so,
Caesar Kalinowski (07:25):
you know, like I say this way, sometimes it's like after a busy day at work, you know, introverts have to interact all day.
Yep.
And so they need to get, they get to, they need to, you know, be alone for a bit.
They need to recharge it some time to reflect, get some quiet, right.
Heath Hollensbe (07:39):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:39):
Whereas like an extrovert gets done with work and goes like, man, I cannot wait to hit, you know, the cafe or the pub.
You
Heath Hollensbe (07:43):
know?
Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:44):
I'm gonna call my buddy, see who's round tonight.
You know, let's go to the, Hey, I got tickets to the game.
Let's go to the game, you know?
That's how they actually recharge.
Yeah.
Is by additional interaction.
One's not better than the other.
They're just different.
But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Sure.
And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's actually super
Heath Hollensbe (08:01):
helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
She has, she can't figure out why.
For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, uh,there's times where these, if you're wired completely different.
(08:27):
There's the clash of the two.
And so, yeah.
Uh.
My wife, and I'll talk quite a bit because we operate so differentlythat it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
People
Caesar Kalinowski (08:37):
listening are like, I can't under, I don't even relate.
I can't.
I'm the
Heath Hollensbe (08:39):
only one on planet earth.
You're the only guy.
You and Kathleen News.
That's so weird.
How would I best go about as a servant of Jesus trying to serve my wife, uh, and to seek tounderstand her, you know, as a lifelong learner, which we talked about in, um, in episode 1 0 9.
If I wanna be a lifelong learner in how to really learn and understand from my wife, which is agreat episode to listen to, if you haven't heard that one yet, uh, what encouragement would you give
(09:04):
to people who have a hard time understanding people that are not wired at them, like them at all?
Caesar Kalinowski (09:08):
Yeah.
Well, you might not do your recharging together enoughfor one, because remember that that's the issue.
It's not, it's not a preference of social interaction.
It's a, uh, a need to recharge and you do it in different ways.
Okay.
That's helpful.
So it's not against, you don't need to feel that pressure to help.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to go out and do this.
Like, you want to come?
No.
Oh, well, what's wrong with my friends?
(09:29):
You know, like, well, I, I'm nothing I, you need to bere charged.
I need to bere charged too.
Right?
Yeah.
So she's kind of getting it, do it separately.
Right.
It's kind of, that's it.
So, um, that, that, that's what's going on.
So I, but let me take it a little further.
Okay.
And I'm not, I'm not gonna throw Cath Kathleen oranyone else under the bus here, but sometimes, okay.
The claim of introversion can actually be a smokescreen for self focus.
Heath Hollensbe (09:51):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:51):
Or an attempt to cover up fear of man issues.
Okay.
Can you unpack that maybe a little bit?
Okay.
Yeah.
Both are actually an issue of unbelief in the, in the full bigger gospel.
Okay.
Both are issues of unbelief in the gospel.
It's like there's this internal dialogue in the introvert's head that's saying, well,the best way I know to protect and control what others think of me is to avoid people.
(10:14):
Hmm.
And I can do that, but go, well, I'm an introvert.
Heath Hollensbe (10:18):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:18):
But what I'm really trying to do is.
I don't know if I'm out there amongst loads of people, if I can control what they all think of me.
Yeah.
It's
Heath Hollensbe (10:25):
a control thing.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:25):
So the best way is to avoid it.
Hmm.
Okay.
But the gospel is good news that God loves us deeply so we can put ourselvesout there with others, securing the knowledge that, hey, you know, who
matters the most is God and his opinion, and we have his love and affection.
Wow.
It changes it.
So still have an issue of recharging.
Yeah, but to not be amongst people because we fear their opinion.
(10:49):
And so how I manage it is I hide by my introversion.
That's that's a gospel issue.
So we all have the choice to be with people each day or not.
Who and what will be the focus of our time, energy, and resources.
That's another question.
Where will the source of strength for my interactions come from?
My own super limited supply.
(11:10):
Or the Holy Spirit's endless apply.
Heath Hollensbe (11:12):
Yeah.
So
Caesar Kalinowski (11:13):
when an introvert's like, well, I haven't recharged to the degree I'd like to, so I don't, I I really can't go out and be amongst people.
You can't in your own strength.
Yeah.
But you could, in the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the power thatraised Christ from the dead, I bet you can go out and have a good time.
Yeah.
Because what you're doing is then you're saying, holy Spirithelp me shift my focus and my time and my energy to others.
(11:35):
Yeah.
It's, it's very different now.
I still need to be charged alone.
I can do that and be with people.
I can choose that on enough strength of the spirit.
Heath Hollensbe (11:43):
You can throw me under the bus.
We've talked a little about that.
Maybe what's happening with introverts behind the introversion thing?
Okay.
Being an extrovert.
Uh.
What, what might that issue be for extroverts?
If control.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's, it's actually
Caesar Kalinowski (11:57):
kind of the same, believe it or not, just the other side of the coin.
Okay.
You, yeah.
Okay.
But yeah, here we go.
So it's fair, fair, right.
So here for us extroverts, um, I'm an extrovert so I can speak to this, right?
Yeah.
Um, there are times and in my life it used to be moreoften, we were talking about this a little bit earlier.
Uh, you and I off, off mic.
Um.
Uh, and it used to be a stronger pull on me than it is today, but,but there, there were times when I needed to be out with people.
Heath Hollensbe (12:20):
Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:20):
Like in the middle of every conversation.
Sort of the witty, smart guy that knows a lot about a lot of things.
Heath Hollensbe (12:26):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:26):
And you know, you know my story and Tina and I have owned lots of businesses and been all over the world do ministry.
So I mean, we are unlimited stories, so I always have a story, you know?
Sure.
It's like, it doesn't matter what story someone's got, I'm like, been there, done that.
Probably a little better, you know, in my own mind.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, but I used to really more so need to be that guy and, um, I.
You know, now I could, and I would claim, well, that's because I'm an extrovert.
(12:47):
That's just how I roll.
You know?
I like people, I people, and you tell stories and, but if I always have to be in thecenter of a group and getting attention, see then the thing behind the thing there is that
I, I may not be believing that I'm loved and affirmed by this creator of the universe.
Yeah.
Always loving, perfect father God.
Who, who says, this is my son, Heath.
(13:09):
You're my son.
He, you're my son, and you bring me great joy.
I gave you all my best affection and attention whenI sent my son Jesus, to be with you and rescue you.
Yeah.
And save you from guess what Yourself See?
So see how the unbelief is both connected to something that's nottrue of God, but we put it, you know, we focus on ourself, not God.
(13:31):
And so now I need to hide behind my extroverting.
Wow.
Or the, I, it's like a,
Heath Hollensbe (13:35):
it's like a multiple bent on the same issue.
Caesar Kalinowski (13:37):
Yep.
It really, it really is crazy.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (13:40):
And it's interesting, that always comes back to this unbelief.
You know, it's true that most of the sin behind the sin is unbelief in the gospel.
So like,
Caesar Kalinowski (13:46):
you know, super practical here.
So if you're an introvert and you're like, no, I can't, I don't really, you know, I rememberone time a person saying to me, we were talking about Michel community life and meeting your
neighbors, you know, and doing things and I was telling some of the stories about our life andTina and parties and, you know, barbecues and all that, and they're like, I could never do that.
I'm like, why is that?
I'm an introvert.
Hmm.
I was like, okay.
She goes, in fact, I've never had anybody over.
(14:09):
And so I had to talk to her about the unbelief in what was true of God and his love for her.
Yeah.
And perfect acceptance that she already had.
That she could say, well, you know what?
There's a thing going on in the neighborhood tonight.
My community's involved in it.
So instead of saying, I can't, 'cause I'm an introvert, what I need to do instead of say Ishould plan to get some restorative time after work, so I got a little something in the tank.
Heath Hollensbe (14:31):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:32):
You know, I'll recharged a bit.
I'm gonna go out and love on people in the power of the spirit.
Same with the extrovert.
Yeah.
Our identity should not live in light of whether we're introverts or extroverts.
It should be in what God has said is true of us.
Boom.
Heath Hollensbe (14:43):
Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski (14:43):
well stated.
Yeah, well stated.
Same for the extrovert.
Hey, there's a thing in the neighborhood tonight.
Let me just double check and reaffirm the father's love in my life.
I'm believing that's true of him.
True of what he says of me.
So tonight I don't have to be that guy who has to be center of everything.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So, wow.
Heath Hollensbe (15:00):
Moving this to more of a practical level, uh, we talked in episode number 1 0 6.
About how to find true community and meeting in your small group and, uh,
Caesar Kalinowski (15:08):
can yeah, kind of move, start moving it to more richer forms and deeper relational forms of mission.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (15:13):
absolutely.
And one of the things that was really neat is we had a listener named ChristianBender who sent us a question after we had aired that episode, just asking
if we'd be willing to explore the topic of how we're wired as an introvert oran extrovert, how that influences our ability to lead a missional community.
Or even be part of one and what each can contribute to the community.
(15:35):
Because if we do believe that there together we represent the fullness of made inthe image of God, both introverts and extroverts made uniquely in the image of God.
The fullness of the gospel shows that we have to come togetherand serve one another and figure this thing out together.
So maybe you could talk to how we, uh.
How, how the, how it all plays together in the C setting?
Caesar Kalinowski (15:56):
That's a great question.
It's a great question.
I think it's really a question about how we lead and interact together in community,uh, with those who have different personalities than us or different strengths.
That's, I think that's what's, you know, in Christian's question there.
So remember, uh, whether we're introverted or extroverted,God has gifted us differently than others and okay.
(16:17):
And he knows who will be a good fit for you relationally.
Now if you're an introvert within your community or at a larger meal orparty, you don't have to feel like you need to meet every single person.
Heath Hollensbe (16:27):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:27):
And be cracking jokes all night and then drop the mic, you know?
Right.
That's not that, that's not who you are as an introvert, probably, you know?
Sure.
Um, but let God lead you to those people of peace.
In other words, those people kinda leaning into relationship and spirituality.
Who will love you for who you are.
Heath Hollensbe (16:42):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:43):
So, you know, I would say like in any given community team, and I'll have plenty of friends hanging around and new friends, sure.
We need loads of people who are a little slower paced, betterlisteners who will go the long haul in community with people.
Yeah.
So I, I need those more introverted, sort of more reflective types in the community.
That might even spend time recharging with just one other person, you know what I mean?
(17:05):
Instead of like, woo, you know?
And if, if a community was all like, woo party, you know, noone's ever getting cared for, listened to very well, you know?
Yeah.
We super, super need each other there.
So extroverts are great for drawing a crowd and introverts are more naturally drawn tofewer folks, but they generally go deeper into relationship and we really need both in.
Yeah.
I think one of the things too that you would've,
Heath Hollensbe (17:26):
you'd say is that it's really.
It's really easy for us to pin people that aren't likeus as either threats or enemies or like hindrances.
Hindrances, yeah.
Rather than going like, no, the way with my wife sometimes I golike, we're just wired so differently that we're, it's easy for
you to become my enemy because we don't see eye to eye on this.
Rather than going, lemme seek to understand you because when I seek tounderstand you, like there is a, there's a benefit of going, you're not my enemy.
(17:56):
We need to constantly remember that like the way we're uniquely wired.
It presents that fullness of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:01):
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (18:03):
Once we tap
Caesar Kalinowski (18:03):
in, yeah.
Once we tap into that a little bit too.
It becomes much more apparent, you know, and which humbles us a littlebit and also makes God look really wise and gracious because he's,
you know, he's giving us exactly what we need in our communities.
Yeah.
And he's drawing people to different people in different ways.
And that's, that's where the fullness of who he is and his image beingborn in a community is gonna come out through all kinds of characters.
(18:25):
I think about how, think about how different the 12apostles were that Jesus chose, the disciples he chose.
Yeah.
I mean, they could not have been more different.
More different.
Yeah.
I mean like Wow.
Heath Hollensbe (18:35):
And
Caesar Kalinowski (18:35):
yet the whole world got changed, right.
So yeah.
Okay.
So when trying to like move toward a lifestyle.
Of discipleship and mission, sort of, kind of just springboardingoff a Christian's question there, or just even in life generally.
Okay.
Like maybe if you, a person has never understood that and you kind of hid behind it.
Sure.
Um, here's some questions to ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminate.
(18:57):
Okay.
So when.
Trying to move toward a lifestyle of discipleship and mission.
If you're a more introverted person and hold it tight,I'm gonna come to the extroverted person in a minute.
Um, but if you're, if you're trying to, you know, and just in community in general,and maybe you're wanting to move beyond, you know, kind of hiding behind it.
Yeah.
Right.
Or like, maybe you have new understanding today.
Sure.
(19:17):
Here's some questions you can ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminatefirst, how set in my ways am I, like, do I love my routines more than I love people?
Yeah.
Okay.
Second.
Could I be hiding my selfishness behind the term introvert?
Okay.
I'm, I'm not here to answer 'em for you.
Um, third, do I plan for times of recharging alone after being with lots of people,you know, how could I improve on this so as to better enjoy, you know, social time.
Heath Hollensbe (19:48):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (19:49):
There's just intentionality there.
Absolutely.
Do I believe God has made me both in his image, okay.
Like Jesus and.
Uniquely and then it's really good.
Mm-hmm.
Because some people I've heard say like, I wish I wasn't so introverted.
Heath Hollensbe (20:02):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:03):
I wish I was an extrovert like you, or flip it.
Sure.
I can't stand extroverts, you know, I don't like being one like on, but, you know.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, you're, you're made in the image of God, like Christ and it's good.
Heath Hollensbe (20:14):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:14):
Right.
It's, but it's understanding what's the truth behind it.
Um, fifth, how does God want to use me with my introversion?
In the lives of others, in the community.
Hmm.
And ask that question.
Ask yourself that great question because it's not gonna be the same as somebody else.
Heath Hollensbe (20:28):
Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:28):
Right.
Sixth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decidehow often I'll be in community and involved with others?
I. I've heard people say like, well, I can't do thewhole missional community thing because I'm an introvert.
It's like, oh, please ask God what he has for your heart.
'cause he definitely has community for you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so we have to come from unbelief to belief, trust the spirit, go in his strength.
(20:49):
And then seventh, do I prefer and or understand the value ofgoing deeper with those few people that God may be calling me to.
Okay.
So remember, you don't always have to lead the band.
But you do have a part to play.
Yep.
Us loud.
Extroverts really need you.
Absolutely.
Okay.
What would be the questions if you were an extrovert that youwould ask yourself or even the Holy Spirit to illuminate for you?
(21:13):
Okay.
Same thing, right?
We've talked about there's issues on both and so here's a little heart check first.
Uh, what's my true motivation for wanting to be with people?
Especially if it's a lot, you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (21:25):
Uh, is it to be a blessing and or get recharged, or is it to be the center of attention or maybe to be in charge?
Hmm, hmm.
Conviction falling here.
No joke.
Uh, second, could I be using my extroversion at times as an excuse to be sortof loud opinion and opinionated or seek to be in control of the situation?
Mm-hmm.
(21:45):
Because I'm a kinda loudest guy.
Sure.
And loudest voice wins.
Yep.
Okay.
Uh, third question.
Do I believe that God has made me both in his image like Christ and uniquely?
That it's good.
Yeah.
And that I need others with different perspectives and gifts and giftings and personality types.
Do I do.
I believe that now as he's made me good.
(22:05):
He is.
Made them good.
Let's look for that.
Heath Hollensbe (22:07):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:08):
How does that work?
Uh, fourth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decide if I should be out in acrowd and mixing it up, or if it's a good time to speak up and maybe take charge or lead?
Or is it a good time to use my abundant energy just to serve others and like see their gifts shine?
I.
Heath Hollensbe (22:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:25):
Right.
Make space for them.
Right, because it's, you can use that gift and energy for that.
And then fifth, do I understand that while I can easily draw a crowd or make friendsmore easily, perhaps as an extrovert, I need others who can come alongside me
and be gentle with them and listen and kind of walk with them over the long haul.
Yeah, exactly.
Do I understand that?
You know what I mean?
(22:45):
So we really do need each other brother.
Mm-hmm.
And I believe that God, he, he knits our marriages together, um, our families,our communities, and churches with exactly the right types of people and
personalities that he knows will most glorify himself and bless the most people.
Yep.
And if we can see each other as image bearers, that's gonnabe super valuable knowing that he has made us wonderfully.
(23:10):
Yeah.
And he's, it's not an accident.
Who we're married to and who we're in community with,there's, there's growth there and there's beauty there.
Heath Hollensbe (23:16):
You know, one of the practices that I've tried to employ lately, like you said, is as Christians, we tend to do a terrible
job of really walking, uh, as listeners of the spirit in every avenue.
So for me, I'm a lot like what you mentioned, and I go to parties.
I like to be the loud voice.
I feel sometimes that.
Knowing my wife's not gonna be the most loud and vocal that I have to make up the conversation.
(23:40):
So it's been super helpful to, to, even as I'm showing up to a house and I'm ata party just going, spirit, would you lead me tonight throughout the evening?
Like, would you speak to me?
Would you tell me when I need to cool it when I need to?
So these are, I just questions that we can ask as we're sitting at home, butif we're led by the spirit in real time, go out and party in real time and
let the spirit speak to you and try to discern and listen and then, yeah.
(24:01):
Great.
Yeah.
So, uh, as we're finishing up, we always do the takeaway, the big three,which is the three things that people can take away from this episode.
Get started on right away.
Yeah, it's awesome and you can get it for free by going to everyday disciple.com/big three.
Cesar, what are the top three takeaways you
Caesar Kalinowski (24:18):
have for us this week?
Okay, boom.
Here's the big three.
First, are you an introvert, an extrovert?
Are you sure?
You know, a self-awareness is a really good place to start.
So here's what I wanna do.
If everybody will download these big three, I'm gonnainclude a link to a free personality assessment.
Oh, cool.
Connected to Myers-Briggs.
It only takes actually like a few minutes.
(24:38):
It's not crazy long.
Like, like two minutes or three minutes to go through.
Sure.
And you'll get instant results.
You don't have to pay anything or like wait for it to come.
And you'll see where you fall on the extroversion to introversion scale.
Cool.
'cause we're not, none of no one's like a hundred percent one thing and zero the other or whatever.
Sure.
And that's gonna help you start to bear with others when you go like, oh.
I'm a whole lot more like that person than I thought, right?
(24:58):
So start by figuring that out.
And even if you think you know it's free, go.
So download the big three.
Get the link.
Go for that.
Okay.
Second, plan your social schedule to allow you to rechargeemotionally in ways that best suit you and your personality.
Don't hide behind your introversion or extroversion asexcuses to not be with people or always be at the center.
(25:19):
And a little advanced preparation for our heart and for recharging will open you up to new horizons.
And really some new relational depth.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
And then third, seek to actually build teams and buildcommunity with those who are different than yourself.
Heath Hollensbe (25:34):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (25:34):
Like, 'cause we do need each other.
It's not like, well, I'll put up with you, I guess I'll figure out.
Yeah, yeah.
Figure out a way to put you to use whoever.
It's like, no, be wiser than that.
And say God's good.
He only does what is good.
He's made us unique and different.
So seek to build teams with people different than yourself.
Remember, we need both introverts.
Extroverts in community.
So learn to be gracious and patient as you grow moreaccustomed to and appreciative of those differences.
(25:58):
Yeah.
Well,
Heath Hollensbe (25:59):
uh, I will take those three takeaways and I'm also gonna go home right now and apologize to my wife.
I being such a jerk.
I.
Caesar Kalinowski (26:06):
Hey, and let me just say again if people want to, you know, interact with us around this.
Yeah.
Go to Facebook, search Up Everyday Disciple podcast.
We have a group there.
Yep.
And just, you know, ask to join.
We'll prove you and ask your questions there.
Jump in on community, talk to other people like, youknow, bring, bring something to the, to the buffet.
It'd be great.
Okay.
Well that's it for today.
(26:26):
I really love being with you and I hope this has been helpful.
Please share this with someone else.
That you love and care about, share this with the people in your community.
'cause remember, we're, we're looking to have relational peace with others.
That's what Jesus wants for us and freedom.
I hope you'll join us again next week.
We'll continue to talk about this lifestyle of discipleshipand mission and how the gospel is really good news.
(26:50):
For all of us now today.
I know you'll join us for that.
I'll look forward to it.
I hope you will too.
Talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe (26:59):
Thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleshipresources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember, you really can live with
the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
One's not better than the other.
They're just different.
But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Sure.
And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's actually
Heath Hollensbe (00:10):
super helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
She can't figure out why.
For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, there'stimes where these, if you're wired completely different.
(00:36):
There's the clash of the two.
And so my wife, and I'll talk quite a bit, because we operate so differentlythat it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
People listening are like, I can't
Caesar Kalinowski (00:45):
under, I don't even relate.
I'm the only one on planet Earth like this.
You're only guy,
Heath Hollensbe (00:48):
you and
Caesar Kalinowski (00:48):
Kathleen.
So weird.
Heath Hollensbe (01:01):
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast where you'll learn how to live with.
Greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Cesar Kalinowski.
Caesar Kalinowski (01:20):
Hello.
Hello, Heath.
Are you, I'm gonna just go right for it.
Are you an extrovert or an introvert?
I have, I don't think any introvert in me.
100% Extrover.
You're way out there.
Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty close to that too.
I did do an assessment recently again, just to see, you know.
Yeah.
And I think I cheated it though 'cause like I know what the kind ofquestions they're asking, but I was still even in cheating it, you
(01:41):
know, trying to like seem nicer or something to seem more moderate.
Yeah.
Or something.
Yeah.
I wanna be like Jesus 'cause his needle has to be right in the middle or something.
I don't know.
Heath Hollensbe (01:49):
Yeah.
No, we're, this is actually a really fun conversation I think.
And it's gonna provide, I know for me in my marriage, a lot of clarity 'cause my wife is.
Whatever.
I am extreme extrovert, she's extreme introvert, which leads to issues and frustrations.
Uh, yeah.
And not know how to understand one another.
Um, well, they're, we're wired pretty differently.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:08):
Especially when it comes to social interaction.
Right.
Heath Hollensbe (02:10):
You know, what I'm finding is that the topic of introvert extrovert is often really misunderstood.
The basis of, of how we even define what each is.
Yeah.
Very much so.
The distinctions are not accurate and so.
No one seems to really understand, almost nobody, these differences in personalities.
Do you have, uh, have you experienced that as well?
(02:31):
It's like we're starting on the wrong foot.
Caesar Kalinowski (02:33):
I certainly have, and like a lot of things when it comes to like personality assessments or preferences in life, we assume like the worst of people who are different than us.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, like I really like hanging out with extroverts surprise, you know what I mean?
Yeah, sure.
And then before you understand some of these things, youdon't know why, you just go like, nah, I really like that guy.
Nah, nah, not him much.
Not much, you know, but.
(02:53):
Actually, the truth is both are really, really needed for healthy community, for living together.
Like a mission, right?
Yep.
Because there's all kinds of people in the world, and so as we're like discipleswho make disciples and all that, we really need to understand this better.
And I, it's a bit of a, I wouldn't say it's hot button, like on TV kind of news, youknow, I result over it, but when I've spoken about it or written about it before.
(03:14):
I always get tons of mail.
Yeah.
People are freed up and other people are like super offended by it 'cause they kinda got nailed.
Sure.
You know, so, and those, and I think our listeners today are gonna know whatI'm saying, like we're, I'm gonna nail, I'm gonna nail this, but I'm gonna
be fair, I'm gonna like both sides 'cause I wanna bring the gospel into it.
Like there is really a thing behind the thing here when itcomes to, uh, understanding introversion and extroversion.
But you're right.
(03:35):
I think most people don't really understand it.
Yeah.
They really don't.
Heath Hollensbe (03:38):
Yeah.
What we've always said, our mantra has been is how to get faith to fit into every area of your life.
So why would we leave it out of how we're wired?
Yeah.
As far as extroverts or introverts.
And this one can change a lot for us pretty quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So let's, what I like to do usually is start off with defining some definitions.
Good.
And I think that most of our listeners are probably, I would say veryfew are unaware with the whole introvert extrovert conversation at all.
Caesar Kalinowski (04:01):
But, um, well, everybody, everybody assumes they like, this is who I am.
Yeah, exactly.
But they don't necessarily know what it really means.
Yeah.
Maybe you can unpack this whole.
Give some definitions to Okay.
To these phrases.
Little history lesson here.
Fun.
A very short one.
Um, so extroversion and introversion are, um, are these preferencesthat we have originally used in a personality inventory that was
(04:24):
created like in the twenties by this Swiss psychologist named Carl Jung.
Heath Hollensbe (04:29):
Okay.
And
Caesar Kalinowski (04:29):
so people that like are into psychology or psychiatry or anything that they would, they would know who Carl Jung is.
Um, but he's the guy who kind of first coined that and started to identify preferences.
Uh, within our personality types.
Okay.
Most people today may be more familiar with these termsin connection with the Myers-Brigg type inventory.
Sure.
A lot of people at work or even maybe through church orteam building exercises they've done in Myers-Briggs,
Heath Hollensbe (04:53):
which is like the ENFP or ENFJ or I-N-F-E-N-T.
Caesar Kalinowski (04:55):
Yeah.
All that stuff, right?
Myers Briggs.
Yeah.
I I like to call it the Briggs and Stratton.
Let's just see the name of a lawnmower engine or something.
Right.
Um, yeah.
And the, these un these terms though are unfortunately.
They're kind of outmoded because, not 'cause they're not valuable, because they're misunderstoodand misused in that extroversion iss not about being loud or the life of the party.
Heath Hollensbe (05:18):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:19):
And introversion is not about being shy or antisocial.
I. But that's actually just the beginning of starting to understand this.
Okay.
Heath Hollensbe (05:27):
Un unfortunately that's the way I've always heard it put or taught is that I hear people using extrovert or introvert as excuses as to
why they are a certain way or don't like doing certain things with others.
So like, yeah, I don't like, uh, I don't like going out to baseball games 'cause I'm an introvert.
And you're going like, okay, well, that, that might not be it.
It's more about how we're filled and we'll, we'll talk about it in a second.
(05:47):
Right.
But, um, I'm sure you
Caesar Kalinowski (05:49):
know what I mean.
Yeah.
So these preferences either being, you know, more extroverted or more introverted.
Um, actually, and, and this is what it was originally too, like when Carl Jung was writing about it.
Sure.
They actually have to do with how people get their energy and recharge emotionally and mentally.
Hmm.
Okay.
It's not a social preference per se.
(06:10):
Here's what's going on.
Extroverts draw their energy from other people and interaction.
Heath Hollensbe (06:15):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:15):
While introverts draw their energy from within.
Heath Hollensbe (06:19):
Okay.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:20):
Right.
So they do that within themselves and through reflection.
Heath Hollensbe (06:24):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:24):
It's about how you recharge.
It's not about how many people you like to be around.
Heath Hollensbe (06:28):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:29):
Okay.
It's important to understand that there are times when, youknow, all of us feel more introverted and need to be alone.
Right.
Or seek a quiet place.
I seem to remember Jesus doing that from time to time.
Heath Hollensbe (06:39):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:40):
Right.
Um, there are also times when even the most introverted person will go toa party and they'll function socially and they'll have a good time again.
Jesus did this pretty often as well.
He threw loads, loads of parties, was at parties all the time.
We all actually possess elements of both introversion and extroversion.
Heath Hollensbe (06:57):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (06:57):
It's just that we're gonna kind of have a primary or dominant preference.
And it has really though, more to do with how we recharge, how we refuel.
So
Heath Hollensbe (07:06):
it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like a car, right?
You go to parties all the time.
The introvert to fill up the gas tank is going, I'm on fumes.
I need to spend some time alone and reflect.
And that fills up the gas tank so that when partiesarise and stuff like that, they have the energy right.
To go into those things.
Yep.
Okay.
That's right.
So and so,
Caesar Kalinowski (07:25):
you know, like I say this way, sometimes it's like after a busy day at work, you know, introverts have to interact all day.
Yep.
And so they need to get, they get to, they need to, you know, be alone for a bit.
They need to recharge it some time to reflect, get some quiet, right.
Heath Hollensbe (07:39):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:39):
Whereas like an extrovert gets done with work and goes like, man, I cannot wait to hit, you know, the cafe or the pub.
You
Heath Hollensbe (07:43):
know?
Yeah, sure.
Caesar Kalinowski (07:44):
I'm gonna call my buddy, see who's round tonight.
You know, let's go to the, Hey, I got tickets to the game.
Let's go to the game, you know?
That's how they actually recharge.
Yeah.
Is by additional interaction.
One's not better than the other.
They're just different.
But neither is like a license to hide behind it.
Sure.
And say, well, I don't do those things 'cause I'm, I'm this.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's actually super
Heath Hollensbe (08:01):
helpful because I am definitely, as I said, massive extrovert.
My wife Kathleen, massive introvert.
I come home from a long, stressful day of work.
She has, she can't figure out why.
For me, I would desire to go out and have a couple beers with some guys.
For her, she'd rather sit behind a book and under a blanket and recharge.
So as you can imagine with us living in a fallen world, uh,there's times where these, if you're wired completely different.
(08:27):
There's the clash of the two.
And so, yeah.
Uh.
My wife, and I'll talk quite a bit because we operate so differentlythat it'll sometimes leads to some tension in our, in our marriage.
People
Caesar Kalinowski (08:37):
listening are like, I can't under, I don't even relate.
I can't.
I'm the
Heath Hollensbe (08:39):
only one on planet earth.
You're the only guy.
You and Kathleen News.
That's so weird.
How would I best go about as a servant of Jesus trying to serve my wife, uh, and to seek tounderstand her, you know, as a lifelong learner, which we talked about in, um, in episode 1 0 9.
If I wanna be a lifelong learner in how to really learn and understand from my wife, which is agreat episode to listen to, if you haven't heard that one yet, uh, what encouragement would you give
(09:04):
to people who have a hard time understanding people that are not wired at them, like them at all?
Caesar Kalinowski (09:08):
Yeah.
Well, you might not do your recharging together enoughfor one, because remember that that's the issue.
It's not, it's not a preference of social interaction.
It's a, uh, a need to recharge and you do it in different ways.
Okay.
That's helpful.
So it's not against, you don't need to feel that pressure to help.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to go out and do this.
Like, you want to come?
No.
Oh, well, what's wrong with my friends?
(09:29):
You know, like, well, I, I'm nothing I, you need to bere charged.
I need to bere charged too.
Right?
Yeah.
So she's kind of getting it, do it separately.
Right.
It's kind of, that's it.
So, um, that, that, that's what's going on.
So I, but let me take it a little further.
Okay.
And I'm not, I'm not gonna throw Cath Kathleen oranyone else under the bus here, but sometimes, okay.
The claim of introversion can actually be a smokescreen for self focus.
Heath Hollensbe (09:51):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:51):
Or an attempt to cover up fear of man issues.
Okay.
Can you unpack that maybe a little bit?
Okay.
Yeah.
Both are actually an issue of unbelief in the, in the full bigger gospel.
Okay.
Both are issues of unbelief in the gospel.
It's like there's this internal dialogue in the introvert's head that's saying, well,the best way I know to protect and control what others think of me is to avoid people.
(10:14):
Hmm.
And I can do that, but go, well, I'm an introvert.
Heath Hollensbe (10:18):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:18):
But what I'm really trying to do is.
I don't know if I'm out there amongst loads of people, if I can control what they all think of me.
Yeah.
It's
Heath Hollensbe (10:25):
a control thing.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (10:25):
So the best way is to avoid it.
Hmm.
Okay.
But the gospel is good news that God loves us deeply so we can put ourselvesout there with others, securing the knowledge that, hey, you know, who
matters the most is God and his opinion, and we have his love and affection.
Wow.
It changes it.
So still have an issue of recharging.
Yeah, but to not be amongst people because we fear their opinion.
(10:49):
And so how I manage it is I hide by my introversion.
That's that's a gospel issue.
So we all have the choice to be with people each day or not.
Who and what will be the focus of our time, energy, and resources.
That's another question.
Where will the source of strength for my interactions come from?
My own super limited supply.
(11:10):
Or the Holy Spirit's endless apply.
Heath Hollensbe (11:12):
Yeah.
So
Caesar Kalinowski (11:13):
when an introvert's like, well, I haven't recharged to the degree I'd like to, so I don't, I I really can't go out and be amongst people.
You can't in your own strength.
Yeah.
But you could, in the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the power thatraised Christ from the dead, I bet you can go out and have a good time.
Yeah.
Because what you're doing is then you're saying, holy Spirithelp me shift my focus and my time and my energy to others.
(11:35):
Yeah.
It's, it's very different now.
I still need to be charged alone.
I can do that and be with people.
I can choose that on enough strength of the spirit.
Heath Hollensbe (11:43):
You can throw me under the bus.
We've talked a little about that.
Maybe what's happening with introverts behind the introversion thing?
Okay.
Being an extrovert.
Uh.
What, what might that issue be for extroverts?
If control.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's, it's actually
Caesar Kalinowski (11:57):
kind of the same, believe it or not, just the other side of the coin.
Okay.
You, yeah.
Okay.
But yeah, here we go.
So it's fair, fair, right.
So here for us extroverts, um, I'm an extrovert so I can speak to this, right?
Yeah.
Um, there are times and in my life it used to be moreoften, we were talking about this a little bit earlier.
Uh, you and I off, off mic.
Um.
Uh, and it used to be a stronger pull on me than it is today, but,but there, there were times when I needed to be out with people.
Heath Hollensbe (12:20):
Huh.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:20):
Like in the middle of every conversation.
Sort of the witty, smart guy that knows a lot about a lot of things.
Heath Hollensbe (12:26):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:26):
And you know, you know my story and Tina and I have owned lots of businesses and been all over the world do ministry.
So I mean, we are unlimited stories, so I always have a story, you know?
Sure.
It's like, it doesn't matter what story someone's got, I'm like, been there, done that.
Probably a little better, you know, in my own mind.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, but I used to really more so need to be that guy and, um, I.
You know, now I could, and I would claim, well, that's because I'm an extrovert.
(12:47):
That's just how I roll.
You know?
I like people, I people, and you tell stories and, but if I always have to be in thecenter of a group and getting attention, see then the thing behind the thing there is that
I, I may not be believing that I'm loved and affirmed by this creator of the universe.
Yeah.
Always loving, perfect father God.
Who, who says, this is my son, Heath.
(13:09):
You're my son.
He, you're my son, and you bring me great joy.
I gave you all my best affection and attention whenI sent my son Jesus, to be with you and rescue you.
Yeah.
And save you from guess what Yourself See?
So see how the unbelief is both connected to something that's nottrue of God, but we put it, you know, we focus on ourself, not God.
(13:31):
And so now I need to hide behind my extroverting.
Wow.
Or the, I, it's like a,
Heath Hollensbe (13:35):
it's like a multiple bent on the same issue.
Caesar Kalinowski (13:37):
Yep.
It really, it really is crazy.
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (13:40):
And it's interesting, that always comes back to this unbelief.
You know, it's true that most of the sin behind the sin is unbelief in the gospel.
So like,
Caesar Kalinowski (13:46):
you know, super practical here.
So if you're an introvert and you're like, no, I can't, I don't really, you know, I rememberone time a person saying to me, we were talking about Michel community life and meeting your
neighbors, you know, and doing things and I was telling some of the stories about our life andTina and parties and, you know, barbecues and all that, and they're like, I could never do that.
I'm like, why is that?
I'm an introvert.
Hmm.
I was like, okay.
She goes, in fact, I've never had anybody over.
(14:09):
And so I had to talk to her about the unbelief in what was true of God and his love for her.
Yeah.
And perfect acceptance that she already had.
That she could say, well, you know what?
There's a thing going on in the neighborhood tonight.
My community's involved in it.
So instead of saying, I can't, 'cause I'm an introvert, what I need to do instead of say Ishould plan to get some restorative time after work, so I got a little something in the tank.
Heath Hollensbe (14:31):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:32):
You know, I'll recharged a bit.
I'm gonna go out and love on people in the power of the spirit.
Same with the extrovert.
Yeah.
Our identity should not live in light of whether we're introverts or extroverts.
It should be in what God has said is true of us.
Boom.
Heath Hollensbe (14:43):
Yeah,
Caesar Kalinowski (14:43):
well stated.
Yeah, well stated.
Same for the extrovert.
Hey, there's a thing in the neighborhood tonight.
Let me just double check and reaffirm the father's love in my life.
I'm believing that's true of him.
True of what he says of me.
So tonight I don't have to be that guy who has to be center of everything.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So, wow.
Heath Hollensbe (15:00):
Moving this to more of a practical level, uh, we talked in episode number 1 0 6.
About how to find true community and meeting in your small group and, uh,
Caesar Kalinowski (15:08):
can yeah, kind of move, start moving it to more richer forms and deeper relational forms of mission.
Yeah,
Heath Hollensbe (15:13):
absolutely.
And one of the things that was really neat is we had a listener named ChristianBender who sent us a question after we had aired that episode, just asking
if we'd be willing to explore the topic of how we're wired as an introvert oran extrovert, how that influences our ability to lead a missional community.
Or even be part of one and what each can contribute to the community.
(15:35):
Because if we do believe that there together we represent the fullness of made inthe image of God, both introverts and extroverts made uniquely in the image of God.
The fullness of the gospel shows that we have to come togetherand serve one another and figure this thing out together.
So maybe you could talk to how we, uh.
How, how the, how it all plays together in the C setting?
Caesar Kalinowski (15:56):
That's a great question.
It's a great question.
I think it's really a question about how we lead and interact together in community,uh, with those who have different personalities than us or different strengths.
That's, I think that's what's, you know, in Christian's question there.
So remember, uh, whether we're introverted or extroverted,God has gifted us differently than others and okay.
(16:17):
And he knows who will be a good fit for you relationally.
Now if you're an introvert within your community or at a larger meal orparty, you don't have to feel like you need to meet every single person.
Heath Hollensbe (16:27):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:27):
And be cracking jokes all night and then drop the mic, you know?
Right.
That's not that, that's not who you are as an introvert, probably, you know?
Sure.
Um, but let God lead you to those people of peace.
In other words, those people kinda leaning into relationship and spirituality.
Who will love you for who you are.
Heath Hollensbe (16:42):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:43):
So, you know, I would say like in any given community team, and I'll have plenty of friends hanging around and new friends, sure.
We need loads of people who are a little slower paced, betterlisteners who will go the long haul in community with people.
Yeah.
So I, I need those more introverted, sort of more reflective types in the community.
That might even spend time recharging with just one other person, you know what I mean?
(17:05):
Instead of like, woo, you know?
And if, if a community was all like, woo party, you know, noone's ever getting cared for, listened to very well, you know?
Yeah.
We super, super need each other there.
So extroverts are great for drawing a crowd and introverts are more naturally drawn tofewer folks, but they generally go deeper into relationship and we really need both in.
Yeah.
I think one of the things too that you would've,
Heath Hollensbe (17:26):
you'd say is that it's really.
It's really easy for us to pin people that aren't likeus as either threats or enemies or like hindrances.
Hindrances, yeah.
Rather than going like, no, the way with my wife sometimes I golike, we're just wired so differently that we're, it's easy for
you to become my enemy because we don't see eye to eye on this.
Rather than going, lemme seek to understand you because when I seek tounderstand you, like there is a, there's a benefit of going, you're not my enemy.
(17:56):
We need to constantly remember that like the way we're uniquely wired.
It presents that fullness of the gospel.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:01):
Yeah.
Heath Hollensbe (18:03):
Once we tap
Caesar Kalinowski (18:03):
in, yeah.
Once we tap into that a little bit too.
It becomes much more apparent, you know, and which humbles us a littlebit and also makes God look really wise and gracious because he's,
you know, he's giving us exactly what we need in our communities.
Yeah.
And he's drawing people to different people in different ways.
And that's, that's where the fullness of who he is and his image beingborn in a community is gonna come out through all kinds of characters.
(18:25):
I think about how, think about how different the 12apostles were that Jesus chose, the disciples he chose.
Yeah.
I mean, they could not have been more different.
More different.
Yeah.
I mean like Wow.
Heath Hollensbe (18:35):
And
Caesar Kalinowski (18:35):
yet the whole world got changed, right.
So yeah.
Okay.
So when trying to like move toward a lifestyle.
Of discipleship and mission, sort of, kind of just springboardingoff a Christian's question there, or just even in life generally.
Okay.
Like maybe if you, a person has never understood that and you kind of hid behind it.
Sure.
Um, here's some questions to ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminate.
(18:57):
Okay.
So when.
Trying to move toward a lifestyle of discipleship and mission.
If you're a more introverted person and hold it tight,I'm gonna come to the extroverted person in a minute.
Um, but if you're, if you're trying to, you know, and just in community in general,and maybe you're wanting to move beyond, you know, kind of hiding behind it.
Yeah.
Right.
Or like, maybe you have new understanding today.
Sure.
(19:17):
Here's some questions you can ask yourself or maybe ask the spirit to illuminatefirst, how set in my ways am I, like, do I love my routines more than I love people?
Yeah.
Okay.
Second.
Could I be hiding my selfishness behind the term introvert?
Okay.
I'm, I'm not here to answer 'em for you.
Um, third, do I plan for times of recharging alone after being with lots of people,you know, how could I improve on this so as to better enjoy, you know, social time.
Heath Hollensbe (19:48):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (19:49):
There's just intentionality there.
Absolutely.
Do I believe God has made me both in his image, okay.
Like Jesus and.
Uniquely and then it's really good.
Mm-hmm.
Because some people I've heard say like, I wish I wasn't so introverted.
Heath Hollensbe (20:02):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:03):
I wish I was an extrovert like you, or flip it.
Sure.
I can't stand extroverts, you know, I don't like being one like on, but, you know.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, you're, you're made in the image of God, like Christ and it's good.
Heath Hollensbe (20:14):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:14):
Right.
It's, but it's understanding what's the truth behind it.
Um, fifth, how does God want to use me with my introversion?
In the lives of others, in the community.
Hmm.
And ask that question.
Ask yourself that great question because it's not gonna be the same as somebody else.
Heath Hollensbe (20:28):
Sure.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:28):
Right.
Sixth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decidehow often I'll be in community and involved with others?
I. I've heard people say like, well, I can't do thewhole missional community thing because I'm an introvert.
It's like, oh, please ask God what he has for your heart.
'cause he definitely has community for you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so we have to come from unbelief to belief, trust the spirit, go in his strength.
(20:49):
And then seventh, do I prefer and or understand the value ofgoing deeper with those few people that God may be calling me to.
Okay.
So remember, you don't always have to lead the band.
But you do have a part to play.
Yep.
Us loud.
Extroverts really need you.
Absolutely.
Okay.
What would be the questions if you were an extrovert that youwould ask yourself or even the Holy Spirit to illuminate for you?
(21:13):
Okay.
Same thing, right?
We've talked about there's issues on both and so here's a little heart check first.
Uh, what's my true motivation for wanting to be with people?
Especially if it's a lot, you know?
Heath Hollensbe (21:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (21:25):
Uh, is it to be a blessing and or get recharged, or is it to be the center of attention or maybe to be in charge?
Hmm, hmm.
Conviction falling here.
No joke.
Uh, second, could I be using my extroversion at times as an excuse to be sortof loud opinion and opinionated or seek to be in control of the situation?
Mm-hmm.
(21:45):
Because I'm a kinda loudest guy.
Sure.
And loudest voice wins.
Yep.
Okay.
Uh, third question.
Do I believe that God has made me both in his image like Christ and uniquely?
That it's good.
Yeah.
And that I need others with different perspectives and gifts and giftings and personality types.
Do I do.
I believe that now as he's made me good.
(22:05):
He is.
Made them good.
Let's look for that.
Heath Hollensbe (22:07):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:08):
How does that work?
Uh, fourth, do I regularly seek the spirit when trying to decide if I should be out in acrowd and mixing it up, or if it's a good time to speak up and maybe take charge or lead?
Or is it a good time to use my abundant energy just to serve others and like see their gifts shine?
I.
Heath Hollensbe (22:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:25):
Right.
Make space for them.
Right, because it's, you can use that gift and energy for that.
And then fifth, do I understand that while I can easily draw a crowd or make friendsmore easily, perhaps as an extrovert, I need others who can come alongside me
and be gentle with them and listen and kind of walk with them over the long haul.
Yeah, exactly.
Do I understand that?
You know what I mean?
(22:45):
So we really do need each other brother.
Mm-hmm.
And I believe that God, he, he knits our marriages together, um, our families,our communities, and churches with exactly the right types of people and
personalities that he knows will most glorify himself and bless the most people.
Yep.
And if we can see each other as image bearers, that's gonnabe super valuable knowing that he has made us wonderfully.
(23:10):
Yeah.
And he's, it's not an accident.
Who we're married to and who we're in community with,there's, there's growth there and there's beauty there.
Heath Hollensbe (23:16):
You know, one of the practices that I've tried to employ lately, like you said, is as Christians, we tend to do a terrible
job of really walking, uh, as listeners of the spirit in every avenue.
So for me, I'm a lot like what you mentioned, and I go to parties.
I like to be the loud voice.
I feel sometimes that.
Knowing my wife's not gonna be the most loud and vocal that I have to make up the conversation.
(23:40):
So it's been super helpful to, to, even as I'm showing up to a house and I'm ata party just going, spirit, would you lead me tonight throughout the evening?
Like, would you speak to me?
Would you tell me when I need to cool it when I need to?
So these are, I just questions that we can ask as we're sitting at home, butif we're led by the spirit in real time, go out and party in real time and
let the spirit speak to you and try to discern and listen and then, yeah.
(24:01):
Great.
Yeah.
So, uh, as we're finishing up, we always do the takeaway, the big three,which is the three things that people can take away from this episode.
Get started on right away.
Yeah, it's awesome and you can get it for free by going to everyday disciple.com/big three.
Cesar, what are the top three takeaways you
Caesar Kalinowski (24:18):
have for us this week?
Okay, boom.
Here's the big three.
First, are you an introvert, an extrovert?
Are you sure?
You know, a self-awareness is a really good place to start.
So here's what I wanna do.
If everybody will download these big three, I'm gonnainclude a link to a free personality assessment.
Oh, cool.
Connected to Myers-Briggs.
It only takes actually like a few minutes.
(24:38):
It's not crazy long.
Like, like two minutes or three minutes to go through.
Sure.
And you'll get instant results.
You don't have to pay anything or like wait for it to come.
And you'll see where you fall on the extroversion to introversion scale.
Cool.
'cause we're not, none of no one's like a hundred percent one thing and zero the other or whatever.
Sure.
And that's gonna help you start to bear with others when you go like, oh.
I'm a whole lot more like that person than I thought, right?
(24:58):
So start by figuring that out.
And even if you think you know it's free, go.
So download the big three.
Get the link.
Go for that.
Okay.
Second, plan your social schedule to allow you to rechargeemotionally in ways that best suit you and your personality.
Don't hide behind your introversion or extroversion asexcuses to not be with people or always be at the center.
(25:19):
And a little advanced preparation for our heart and for recharging will open you up to new horizons.
And really some new relational depth.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
And then third, seek to actually build teams and buildcommunity with those who are different than yourself.
Heath Hollensbe (25:34):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (25:34):
Like, 'cause we do need each other.
It's not like, well, I'll put up with you, I guess I'll figure out.
Yeah, yeah.
Figure out a way to put you to use whoever.
It's like, no, be wiser than that.
And say God's good.
He only does what is good.
He's made us unique and different.
So seek to build teams with people different than yourself.
Remember, we need both introverts.
Extroverts in community.
So learn to be gracious and patient as you grow moreaccustomed to and appreciative of those differences.
(25:58):
Yeah.
Well,
Heath Hollensbe (25:59):
uh, I will take those three takeaways and I'm also gonna go home right now and apologize to my wife.
I being such a jerk.
I.
Caesar Kalinowski (26:06):
Hey, and let me just say again if people want to, you know, interact with us around this.
Yeah.
Go to Facebook, search Up Everyday Disciple podcast.
We have a group there.
Yep.
And just, you know, ask to join.
We'll prove you and ask your questions there.
Jump in on community, talk to other people like, youknow, bring, bring something to the, to the buffet.
It'd be great.
Okay.
Well that's it for today.
(26:26):
I really love being with you and I hope this has been helpful.
Please share this with someone else.
That you love and care about, share this with the people in your community.
'cause remember, we're, we're looking to have relational peace with others.
That's what Jesus wants for us and freedom.
I hope you'll join us again next week.
We'll continue to talk about this lifestyle of discipleshipand mission and how the gospel is really good news.
(26:50):
For all of us now today.
I know you'll join us for that.
I'll look forward to it.
I hope you will too.
Talk to you soon.
Heath Hollensbe (26:59):
Thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleshipresources, visit everyday disciple.com and remember, you really can live with
the spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!