September 29, 2025 • 24 mins
Love him or hate him, Donald Trump has become one of the most polarizing figures of our time. And a big issue for pastors and church leaders is this: how much are our people being discipled by politics instead of Jesus?
In this episode of the Everyday Disciple Podcast, we’ll step back from the headlines and look at what Scripture says about authority, leadership, and the Kingdom. If we’re not careful, political loyalties can shape our churches more than gospel priorities. This conversation will help you shepherd your people toward living as citizens of God’s eternal Kingdom, above and beyond party lines.
Get started here... From this episode: “It is super important to remember that Jesus’ Kingdom stands above America and every nation of the earth. It is set apart and is an internal kingdom. One day, America and all its presidents will be a footnote in history, but God’s Kingdom will never end.”Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
- Why God allows leaders to rise—even the ones we disagree with.
- How Scripture reframes our view of government and authority.
- Ways to re-center identity and allegiance in the Kingdom of God.
- How to guide your people toward love and peacemaking in political conversations.
Get started here... From this episode: “It is super important to remember that Jesus’ Kingdom stands above America and every nation of the earth. It is set apart and is an internal kingdom. One day, America and all its presidents will be a footnote in history, but God’s Kingdom will never end.”
Each week the Big 3 will give you immediate action steps to get you started.
Download today’s BIG 3 right now. Read and think over them again later. You might even want to share them with others…
Thanks for Listening!
Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Join us on Facebook and take part in the discussion! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of this page or right below. Also, please leave an honest review for The Everyday Disciple Podcast on iTunes. Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them. Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Gospel In Everyday Life Workshop Register Now FREE Coaching and Mentorship in Missional Living by Caesar and his wife Tina Resources for missional living and...Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:01):
So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Hmm.
In as much as I am grateful for this country and that I get to live in this country, sure I am.
And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we want to do, say what we wanna say.
Sure.
(00:21):
I don't want that to end.
And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Yeah.
And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Okay.
That's what Patriotism's all about.
Hmm.
Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
(00:45):
When our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe (00:51):
America.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:52):
America.
Yeah.
And, and we believe our country's the best.
And it's always right.
And we should win at everything, at all costs.
That's nationalism.
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
(01:19):
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Donald Trump, man.
We're a wow, a polarizing figure for sure.
You're dropping bombs right here at the beginning of the show.
You're, you, you pulled out the T word.
(01:42):
We're jumping in strong.
The T word, the Donald.
Oh my gosh.
The, maybe the most powerful man they say in the world at this point in time.
Is that true?
Do you think that's, I heard it, I guess.
I mean, many would say that the last X amount of American presidents, maybe for a hundred years or so, at least, have been the most powerful individuals in the planet.
Yeah.
Donald Trump, man, we're uh, wow.
(02:02):
A polarizing figure for sure.
Yeah, definitely that.
And you know, we're gonna talk about.
This today, we're gonna talk about Trump today.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, but this isn't gonna go probably where people think it might.
Okay.
Okay.
We will answer the question that you just asked.
Yep.
You know, is Donald Trump killing the church or saving it?
We will, we will answer that, but we're gonna take this.
(02:23):
I think maybe to some places people aren't, you know, like used to thinking about these things.
And I wanna say right up front, no one likes talking politics.
Huh.
But here we are doing it anyway.
And religion on a kinda a religious podcast.
So it's like, here we go.
What else?
What else can we, jumping in strong?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What can we kick?
But I'll say this, I, in this last election, I, I vote, I'm a voter.
(02:45):
I was, I, it's a privilege, I think, and so people can read into who I, they think I voted for.
Probably not who you think.
Sure.
It's, but I just say that's not even where I want to go today.
But I do want to address, I think some pretty important issues here.
Heath Hollensbe (02:57):
Yeah.
And I think it's important too, to reference, if you're kind of looking more of how we should talk about politics back on episode 1 0 7 when we talked about how to be a, how to talk about politics without being a polarizing jerk.
You go as a topic.
Go.
This might be like part two of that in some degree.
Yeah.
But uh, but you could start there.
1 0 7 is a good episode to bounce back to, if you want to hear kind of how we should talk about politics is a follower of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski (03:18):
I feel like the last couple weeks I've spent more time in the car than I. Usually do.
Okay.
And that's the only place I hear talk radio.
Like I don't even, I don't even think I own a radio in my house.
Yeah.
Anyway, but I, because of that and I generally listen to talk radio, just, I dunno, I find for long drives dialogue Sure.
Holds my interest better than the same songs every hour and a half or whatever.
Yeah.
And so I've kind of spun around the dial and it's amazing how it doesn't almost matter what the talk show's about.
(03:43):
Yep.
Somehow it's about Trump.
Hmm.
He's killing everything.
He's saving everything.
And there's doesn't seem to be any middle ground.
It's crazy.
It's either far left or far right.
It's even more so than I thought.
'cause I've had to start, I've had to start sort of, uh, limiting how much news media on TV I watch.
'cause it's just crazy.
Right.
But then I was, it's snuck up on me in the car.
(04:03):
So anyway.
So let's get, let's dive in on this a little bit.
Okay.
So, Donald Trump, it's funny you say that because like we've said, he's a very polarizing figure.
I would say if I was to divide, divide my Facebook friends in half, half of them would say that he was the savior of America and the free world, and the other half would say that he's probably the antichrist incarnate.
Ooh, strongly.
(04:24):
Yes.
But we have to believe at the very least that he has been placed in his position of authority by God.
Correct?
Well, I think so.
I mean, I, okay, so there, there's the, the, the de facto.
Scripture that that always gets quoted.
And so I'm gonna quote it though because it's a great starting and jumping off point there.
I think here is Romans 13, and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read a chunk of it.
(04:46):
It's, it's, it's the beginning of the chapter.
It's verses one through four.
Okay.
But there'll be a lot of nuggets in here, I think for us to kind of Yeah.
Grow out of here.
So, so the Apostle Paul here is talking to both Jews.
Yeah.
And gentiles not non-Jewish people, but maybe they're believers and he's, he's kind of speaking to the church in this book, right?
Yep.
And, uh, it's a young church just getting started, otherwise Paul wouldn't have been writing about it.
(05:09):
Okay?
Yep.
So here's what he, here's what he says in light of this topic.
Uh, Romans 13 verses one through four.
He goes, let everyone be subject to the governing authorities for there's no authority except that which God has established.
Okay.
It's pretty clear.
It's not too gray there.
The authorities that exist have been established by God, verse two.
Consequently.
(05:29):
So in other words, pay attention.
Whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted or put in place, in other words.
Heath Hollensbe (05:37):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:38):
So that's kinda what you're saying is did God place him there?
Well, according to Paul, yeah.
And of course he's talking about Roman rule here.
Sure.
And it was horrible.
To be, you know, Jew under Roman rule at the time.
Um, so going on it says, and, and, um, so whoever rebels against authorities rebelling against what God has instituted and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Heath Hollensbe (05:58):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:59):
Now it doesn't say, depending on which side you're on, it's weird, like Yeah.
If you rebel against God, you bring judgment on yourself.
Jesus says something very similar to that, doesn't he?
Yep.
Okay.
Verse three For rulers, hold no terror for those who do.
Right.
But for those who do wrong, do you wanna be free from fear?
The one in authority, then do what is right and you'll be commended.
(06:19):
It means it'll go well for you.
Right?
Uh, verse four, for the one in authority is God's servant for your good.
But if you do wrong, be afraid for rulers.
Rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
Meaning rulers do have power and they wield it.
They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
I kind of wish that last bit was left off.
(06:40):
Yeah, yeah.
I was kind of tracking like, okay, you know, sovereign god sure places people in power and it's ultimately to do is good, but then, you know, you lost me at the agents of wrath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're like, wow.
Which means that sometimes they're gonna do things that are punishing evildoers and wrongdoers in the world and, but because of we're humans, we may not see it or agree with it that way.
(07:02):
Wow.
It's weird.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think many Christians accept this basic idea that God has placed all government and authority in place Sure.
Ultimately to accomplish his will.
But there's seems to be considerable disagreement on what constitutes an evil doer and how such moral authority.
(07:22):
Or civic authority should be used.
Right.
Because that's part of why we have wars.
Hmm.
Our side is a hundred percent sure that we're in the right, they're the evil doers and they're writing the same thing from the other direction.
Yeah, exactly.
Publishing it in another language or whatever.
Right.
So, but, but check this out, Romans 12 and 13 'cause there's, there's like that, that was right at the beginning of 13.
(07:44):
So Paul's kind of setting up like something in 12.
Hmm.
It's not about our right to self-defense or responding to evil.
That's really not the point of it.
It's, it's about how Christians have an obligation to obey authorities, even if these authorities aren't explicitly Christian.
Heath Hollensbe (08:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:03):
Okay.
But, okay.
And this is a big huge, but notice how what he is saying to both Jews and Gentiles here is sandwiched between.
Something so big, the call to love.
Okay, so I mean, let me just, let me just roll some up.
All additional scripture on here.
Okay.
So right before he said all that stuff that I just read in Romans 13 about submitting to that, that authority, that God's place there.
(08:26):
I mean, check it out.
Just a, just a cursory glance to Romans 12.
Love and action.
Love.
Must be sincere.
Hate what's evil.
Clinging to what's good.
Be devoted to one another.
Um, bless those who persecute you.
Hmm.
Bless and do not curse.
Don't, don't be proud, but be willing to associate with people who are lower than you.
Don't be conceited.
Don't repay anyone.
(08:47):
Evil for evil, on and on.
Right.
Love your enemy.
If your enemy's hungry, feed him.
If he's thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you'll heap burning coals in.
It's, it's this, okay.
Huge call to how the church, how we are to live.
Heath Hollensbe (09:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:03):
And it's love your enemy.
Yeah.
But then when you get to 13.
Then it's that let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, da, da, da.
They're there 'cause God put 'em there and they can be agents of wrath.
Guess what follows that right after what I read, law fulfills the law.
Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to what?
Love one another for whoever loves others, has actually fulfilled the law.
(09:26):
So then you know, oh, that's what he's meaning about.
Keep the laws and you won't bring judgment upon yourself if your focus is loving everyone.
Yeah.
Not focused on, well, who's an authority and do I agree with God or not?
Hmm.
Oh, that's really what's going on there.
If your focus is on the command to love you fulfill the law, there's no condemnation for you.
That's what Paul is encouraging us to.
(09:49):
Geez.
So that I've never looked at it that way.
So those verses get quoted all the time.
And so it's like, well, there he is.
He's God's.
He's God's man for the job.
Yeah.
She's God's man for the job.
Well, yes, sure.
Mm-hmm.
But look at you, you mean.
You know, we put all those breaks in there and then chapter breaks and all.
It's one big letter.
This is a little tree of like, yeah.
Submit to authority.
As part of how you fulfill the law, which is to love your enemies and love everyone and if they're hungry, feed 'em and all that Never says anything about dropping bombs on 'em or, yeah, and I interesting howwe, we tend to package like even the second Chronicles seven 14, like white people who are calling and we take all this prayer and it's because we prayed that Trump's in office and we're so glad that he's.
(10:28):
You know God's man for this job, and you're going like, I've definitely placed there, but this is on us to actually love one another and to fulfill the life.
So regardless of which side of the political aisle you're on and how much you love or hate, our current leadership, Trump included, that is a very strong.
It's a charge to us.
Yeah.
Charge to us there.
(10:48):
And I, and I, it's, oh, it's so powerful.
'cause it's just wrapped up in a big love sandwich.
Really?
Yeah.
That's what it is.
Which is, yeah.
As you were saying, this is even a bigger issue at hand for the church because I think it has to do with ultimately our true citizenship.
Right?
Yeah.
And I would love to talk about that a little bit, um, because we are citizens of a different kingdom.
We've got a different ruler.
Yeah.
And it's king Jesus.
That's right.
We do.
(11:08):
And how, how do we go, go ahead.
And how we, how we respect a leader of the country we live in.
While ultimately remembering and bowing to serve a greater king.
Yeah.
What does that look like?
Right.
Because that's what, that's what Paul's talking about.
Hey, respect those leaders.
Just remember the greater law that you're fulfilling here, right?
Yeah.
So, exactly.
So let's talk about that a little bit.
Okay.
I wanna start by defining a little bit of what, what nationalism is, patriotism is, and also what, like what you were just talking about.
(11:36):
Our true citizenship is God's family.
A family that has a king that we serve and.
Here's good news.
Who will rule eternally.
Yeah.
Not just for four years or two terms.
Yeah.
And justly and uh, yeah.
Right.
So he's the greatest king.
So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Hmm.
In as much as I am grateful.
For this country and that I get to live in this country.
(11:57):
Sure.
I am.
And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we wanna do, say what we wanna say.
Sure.
I don't want that to end.
And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Heath Hollensbe (12:16):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:16):
And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Okay.
That's what Patriotism's all about.
Hmm.
Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
Our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe (12:39):
America.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:40):
Yeah.
America.
Yeah.
And, and we believe our country's the best and it's always right.
And we should win at everything, at all costs.
That's nationalism.
Hmm.
And that's at times very dangerous.
And I think it's really small for us, Christians to see ourselves that way.
That's.
Like, wow.
Like your dad is king of the universe and he's made you a part of his forever family and your citizenship is not here and and you're gonna like limit it to this one little viewpoint.
(13:05):
Yeah.
'cause maybe your taxes got raised or you, you know, they changed your bus route for your kids, or you know.
Yeah.
Locally, it's like, what?
I think that's actually really interesting nationalism, it seems like would be the conversations of.
When we talk about refugees or walls and we're going like, man, are we really refugees?
Was Jesus a refugee nationalism?
Is that keep everyone out.
Protect us.
(13:26):
We win us first.
Yeah.
Better economy.
America, that's very different than patriotism, isn't it?
Absolutely.
And neither have very little to do with citizenship and our ultimate identity.
Yeah.
And that's, you know, for any longtime listeners know, I'm gonna bring this stuff back to our identity.
Yeah, absolutely.
A lot.
So I think.
That being an American, it's great, but being the kingdom of God is so much bigger and better and eternal.
(13:51):
Yep.
Look, look at scripture says in Matthew six, seek the kingdom of God above all else and live righteously.
That means rightly with God, and he'll give you everything you need.
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's how you get the things in this life that you want, need and desire, rightly righteously.
Yeah.
Is by seeking the kingdom of God for that citizenship, not.
(14:12):
Nationalism.
Heath Hollensbe (14:13):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:13):
Okay.
That doesn't mean you can't be like, I'm, you know, I'm proud of our country, or I'm pulling for it, or I'm pushing on it, but my identity's not found in it.
And scripture teaches that we're not ultimately citizens of this world that's so small.
Yep.
But that we're citizens of God's other worldly kingdom.
And Jesus said that the kingdom of God's here.
Heath Hollensbe (14:32):
Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:33):
And it's now, and it, this is, this is powerful.
It's within us.
It's not an external kingdom made up of stuff and property and bombs and politics.
Wow.
Right.
Paul says in Philippians three, but our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.
So it's su super important to remember that Jesus' kingdom stands above America.
(14:59):
If God, if grace is God, put all authority in place in.
National ways, in country ways, but it all sits below his authority.
So Jesus kingdom stands above, you know America, that's where you and I live.
I know we've got listeners all over the world, but wherever You're from Norway, you're from Sweden, you're from Australia.
Australia, yeah.
It's Jesus Kingdom stands above all that government.
(15:21):
'cause He put it in place, it's set apart his, his is eternal.
And one day America and other nations and all their presidents and rulers will just be a footnote in history.
Heath Hollensbe (15:31):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (15:32):
God's kingdom will never end.
It's good news, man.
It's really good news.
And what it sounds like you're saying is that ultimately Trump isn't doing either, he's not killing or saving the church because the church is eternal.
The church is eternal.
Yeah.
And it's, and it trump's 'cause we're talking about him today, his rule, his authority, the way he'll get used.
(15:54):
All placed under God's ultimate sovereign 40 rule.
So it, you know what I mean?
It'd be like someone way on the totem pole is not, doesn't get to usurp the ultimate plans of a sovereign, powerful God.
Heath Hollensbe (16:04):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:05):
So, so ultimately Trump can't either kill or save the church, the president, right?
I mean, 'cause we are the church.
Yeah.
But lemme just say this sort of side note parent, the president has the civil authority to protect the United States.
Okay.
Okay.
Or whatever nation you're from, but we're talking about Trump here, and no one disputes that.
(16:26):
But the Bible does not give this president or any other president moral authority over us.
The president's ultimately subjective and answers to God.
Hmm.
Now, I mean, let's not rush past that.
So he's got a civic authority, okay.
But he does not have a moral authority that that's not given to him by God, and it doesn't sit under God's authority.
(16:50):
Authority of the President falls under God's authority and serves the people who elected him.
And that includes many of God's family on the earth.
And here in America, the church that's us.
Yep.
But our king and our kingdom and our ultimate citizenship dictates our ultimate loyalty and where we get our true identity from and therefore, our own moral authority in how we treat people.
(17:13):
And like Paul Exor, the Christians, is to love and treat enemies like friends.
And live like Jesus did.
Heath Hollensbe (17:20):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:21):
So does that mean that as Christians we don't really need to worry about what Trump or any other political, or governmental leaders do?
I don't think that's what you're saying.
I'm not saying that that, that, that's not like stick your head in the sand and then don't worry about it.
You know, just kind of wait for heaven kind of thing.
I think heavens come here.
Scripture teaches that the kingdom is now, the kingdom is has come Yeah.
In Christ.
(17:43):
But we need to realign our true identity and our citizenship with the goals of God.
Heath Hollensbe (17:48):
Hmm.
'Caesar Kalinowski: cause if you, if you claim God as your king, Jesus is your king, the part of his kingdom, that's your citizenship, then you exist and you desire to live your life ultimately for his goals.
Sure.
And his objectives.
So.
That, that's how we have to start.
That's how we have to start.
So it do I just like go like, well, I'm not, I'm just not gonna watch the news anymore.
(18:09):
I'm not gonna listen talk.
Right.
I'm gonna forget about No.
Um, here's a few things I was thinking about.
Sure.
Start by praying about the things that you're concerned about or that are ticking you off.
Ask God to give you the mind of Christ on that issue.
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:24):
Not the mind of whoever on talk radio left or right.
You know?
Sure.
Right.
Like, start there.
'cause I'll be honest with you, I can very easily see something on the news and go like, yeah, that's not right.
That bugs me.
And then flick over to the other, you know, another channel like.
Wait a minute.
That makes sense.
That's, you know.
Yeah.
So start by praying about these things that you have concern with the issues, and ask God to give you the mind of Christ.
(18:47):
And maybe this sounds trite, but please, please pray for the leaders in our country.
Yeah.
Both those you agree with and those that you can't stand.
Heath Hollensbe (18:58):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:59):
See, it's hard to hate someone that you regularly pray for.
Think about it.
Wow.
So I know half right now, half the people listening are like, I hate Trump.
I can't stand Trump.
Sure.
Okay.
So wherever they're at that there's probably 50% at least right now, going Yep.
That's where I sit.
Have you prayed for that man?
Heath Hollensbe (19:15):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (19:16):
To have wisdom to, to have the mind of God, to, to be patient, to, to sit under the authority that placed him there.
Like, and I'll tell you what, when, when you.
Pray for someone regularly.
It's pretty hard to hate 'em.
It kind of sandpapers your heart.
And, and here's the thing, if you actually hate your leaders, like if you're just honest with yourself, you hate, you have hate in your heart for them and speak horribly about them.
(19:39):
Well, Jesus says you're a a guilty of murder.
Yeah.
Which is heavy.
That's pretty heavy.
That's bad.
I don't wanna say that's bad.
And as far as I know, Trump and all of our current Senate and Congress right now.
Have never murdered anyone.
Hmm.
So, you know what I mean?
Like your Probably be worse.
I know that we're gonna get people writing us and sending us articles.
We're like, yeah, these people.
(19:59):
But yeah.
Okay.
What I, my point is we are not to be murderers, we're not to be haters.
We're we're, we're called to see the kingdom of God in our ultimate sin, sin ship, and God's glory as primary.
And so if God in his sovereignty has chosen to put those leaders there back to Romans 13, then to hate on them.
(20:19):
And just be anti everything about it is really to say, God, your choice kind of sucked.
Heath Hollensbe (20:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:25):
And we don't wanna be that way.
In fact we don't.
We don't need to.
And we get to be differently.
Yeah.
We get to believe our identity and our citizenship and that, that all that governmental authority sits under that moral authority of God.
Hmm.
That's good man.
I even know we have a mutual friend that is involved in local politics 'cause he believes.
And the kingdom come and he wants to be part of that, and he's going, Hey, salt to the earth.
(20:45):
I'll start locally.
Like, I'll, I'll get on city council and I'll serve here because I can actually start bringing about kingdom impact in the here and now.
Absolutely.
And I, I think it's, I think it's imperative that Christians are involved in politics, both local, regional, national.
Hey, uh, we're running outta time, so let's get to the big three.
And as you know, if you're a listener of the show, the big three are three takeaways, practical that we'd love for you to walk away with right now.
(21:10):
Some tips, some, some things that we really wanna get to.
Your head, your heart, your hands about, yeah.
Trying to help us.
Action items.
What do we need to believe?
What do we need to think about?
What?
What can we start doing?
Yeah, absolutely.
You get those for free.
You can get the download by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Again, that's everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar, what would you say the big three for this week are?
(21:31):
I wonder if I didn't say them, if more people would go to download and appear.
Yeah.
You know, just go find it, an experiment.
Go find it, and then you'll get to know.
No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna share 'em because we always do.
But, um, the reason we have 'em as a free download is because these are sort of like, Hey, if you take anything away from this, take this away.
Yep.
And if you kinda wanna share the essence of this episode with people, um, this would be a good talking points thing.
(21:53):
Yeah.
So you download that.
Right.
Okay.
So first I'd say.
It's important to remember that all authorities under God's sovereign rule in rain.
So whether we agree with or love, or really dislike our national leaders, God is ultimately sovereign and accomplishing his purposes.
He really is.
Heath Hollensbe (22:09):
Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski (22:10):
and establishing his glory throughout the world.
He's been doing that throughout all of history.
You really need to remember that, so that that's sort of the divine.
Take a deep breath.
Heath Hollensbe (22:19):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:19):
And remember who's largely in charge.
Okay?
Second, realign your citizenship and your true identity under god's loving and sovereign and internal rule.
Okay?
The kingdom of God is, remember, it's, it's entered.
By being born of God's own spirit, that's how we enter the kingdom.
That's how we obtain that forever citizenship in the kingdom of God, and it's obtained not by political correctness or military might, and no politician or elected official can ever separate you from God's love.
(22:50):
Or from his forever family.
It's so cool, man.
It's beautiful.
I need to be reminded of that.
Heath Hollensbe (22:55):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:55):
Third, kind of the hands thing.
Start to speak love and peacemaking into every political conversation you have.
Heath Hollensbe (23:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (23:02):
You get to pray daily for your leaders to have wisdom, to seek peace in this really broken world.
Uh, along with that, vote your conscience as, as a privilege of being a part of this country or whatever country you're a citizen of.
You have a voice, and hopefully you'll use it in light of your father's heart and his kingdom, and the examples given to us by his son Jesus.
(23:26):
Yeah, those are fantastic.
Thanks for those.
All right, so download those.
Yep.
And, uh, one thing we wanna do is invite you to be part of this conversation on Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe (23:34):
All you gotta do, go to the search bar and type an Everyday Disciple Podcast.
We'll approve you, let you into the group where we try to have conversation and
Caesar Kalinowski (23:42):
if you think like, oh, these guys are just having a conversation, Caesar and Heath, it'd be cool to just talk to those guys someday or have a coffee of beer with 'em or something like that.
Yeah, well that's sort of how you get to on Facebook right now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And uh, maybe someday we should just call one of our listeners and include 'em in the show.
Heath Hollensbe (23:58):
Thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Hmm.
In as much as I am grateful for this country and that I get to live in this country, sure I am.
And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we want to do, say what we wanna say.
Sure.
(00:21):
I don't want that to end.
And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Yeah.
And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Okay.
That's what Patriotism's all about.
Hmm.
Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
(00:45):
When our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe (00:51):
America.
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (00:52):
America.
Yeah.
And, and we believe our country's the best.
And it's always right.
And we should win at everything, at all costs.
That's nationalism.
Welcome to the Everyday Disciple Podcast, where you'll learn how to live with greater intentionality and an integrated faith that naturally fits into every area of life.
(01:19):
In other words, discipleship as a lifestyle.
This is the stuff your parents, pastors and seminary professors probably forgot to tell you.
And now here's your host, Caesar Kalinowski.
Donald Trump, man.
We're a wow, a polarizing figure for sure.
You're dropping bombs right here at the beginning of the show.
You're, you, you pulled out the T word.
(01:42):
We're jumping in strong.
The T word, the Donald.
Oh my gosh.
The, maybe the most powerful man they say in the world at this point in time.
Is that true?
Do you think that's, I heard it, I guess.
I mean, many would say that the last X amount of American presidents, maybe for a hundred years or so, at least, have been the most powerful individuals in the planet.
Yeah.
Donald Trump, man, we're uh, wow.
(02:02):
A polarizing figure for sure.
Yeah, definitely that.
And you know, we're gonna talk about.
This today, we're gonna talk about Trump today.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, but this isn't gonna go probably where people think it might.
Okay.
Okay.
We will answer the question that you just asked.
Yep.
You know, is Donald Trump killing the church or saving it?
We will, we will answer that, but we're gonna take this.
(02:23):
I think maybe to some places people aren't, you know, like used to thinking about these things.
And I wanna say right up front, no one likes talking politics.
Huh.
But here we are doing it anyway.
And religion on a kinda a religious podcast.
So it's like, here we go.
What else?
What else can we, jumping in strong?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What can we kick?
But I'll say this, I, in this last election, I, I vote, I'm a voter.
(02:45):
I was, I, it's a privilege, I think, and so people can read into who I, they think I voted for.
Probably not who you think.
Sure.
It's, but I just say that's not even where I want to go today.
But I do want to address, I think some pretty important issues here.
Heath Hollensbe (02:57):
Yeah.
And I think it's important too, to reference, if you're kind of looking more of how we should talk about politics back on episode 1 0 7 when we talked about how to be a, how to talk about politics without being a polarizing jerk.
You go as a topic.
Go.
This might be like part two of that in some degree.
Yeah.
But uh, but you could start there.
1 0 7 is a good episode to bounce back to, if you want to hear kind of how we should talk about politics is a follower of Jesus.
Caesar Kalinowski (03:18):
I feel like the last couple weeks I've spent more time in the car than I. Usually do.
Okay.
And that's the only place I hear talk radio.
Like I don't even, I don't even think I own a radio in my house.
Yeah.
Anyway, but I, because of that and I generally listen to talk radio, just, I dunno, I find for long drives dialogue Sure.
Holds my interest better than the same songs every hour and a half or whatever.
Yeah.
And so I've kind of spun around the dial and it's amazing how it doesn't almost matter what the talk show's about.
(03:43):
Yep.
Somehow it's about Trump.
Hmm.
He's killing everything.
He's saving everything.
And there's doesn't seem to be any middle ground.
It's crazy.
It's either far left or far right.
It's even more so than I thought.
'cause I've had to start, I've had to start sort of, uh, limiting how much news media on TV I watch.
'cause it's just crazy.
Right.
But then I was, it's snuck up on me in the car.
(04:03):
So anyway.
So let's get, let's dive in on this a little bit.
Okay.
So, Donald Trump, it's funny you say that because like we've said, he's a very polarizing figure.
I would say if I was to divide, divide my Facebook friends in half, half of them would say that he was the savior of America and the free world, and the other half would say that he's probably the antichrist incarnate.
Ooh, strongly.
(04:24):
Yes.
But we have to believe at the very least that he has been placed in his position of authority by God.
Correct?
Well, I think so.
I mean, I, okay, so there, there's the, the, the de facto.
Scripture that that always gets quoted.
And so I'm gonna quote it though because it's a great starting and jumping off point there.
I think here is Romans 13, and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read a chunk of it.
(04:46):
It's, it's, it's the beginning of the chapter.
It's verses one through four.
Okay.
But there'll be a lot of nuggets in here, I think for us to kind of Yeah.
Grow out of here.
So, so the Apostle Paul here is talking to both Jews.
Yeah.
And gentiles not non-Jewish people, but maybe they're believers and he's, he's kind of speaking to the church in this book, right?
Yep.
And, uh, it's a young church just getting started, otherwise Paul wouldn't have been writing about it.
(05:09):
Okay?
Yep.
So here's what he, here's what he says in light of this topic.
Uh, Romans 13 verses one through four.
He goes, let everyone be subject to the governing authorities for there's no authority except that which God has established.
Okay.
It's pretty clear.
It's not too gray there.
The authorities that exist have been established by God, verse two.
Consequently.
(05:29):
So in other words, pay attention.
Whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted or put in place, in other words.
Heath Hollensbe (05:37):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:38):
So that's kinda what you're saying is did God place him there?
Well, according to Paul, yeah.
And of course he's talking about Roman rule here.
Sure.
And it was horrible.
To be, you know, Jew under Roman rule at the time.
Um, so going on it says, and, and, um, so whoever rebels against authorities rebelling against what God has instituted and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Heath Hollensbe (05:58):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (05:59):
Now it doesn't say, depending on which side you're on, it's weird, like Yeah.
If you rebel against God, you bring judgment on yourself.
Jesus says something very similar to that, doesn't he?
Yep.
Okay.
Verse three For rulers, hold no terror for those who do.
Right.
But for those who do wrong, do you wanna be free from fear?
The one in authority, then do what is right and you'll be commended.
(06:19):
It means it'll go well for you.
Right?
Uh, verse four, for the one in authority is God's servant for your good.
But if you do wrong, be afraid for rulers.
Rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.
Meaning rulers do have power and they wield it.
They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
I kind of wish that last bit was left off.
(06:40):
Yeah, yeah.
I was kind of tracking like, okay, you know, sovereign god sure places people in power and it's ultimately to do is good, but then, you know, you lost me at the agents of wrath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're like, wow.
Which means that sometimes they're gonna do things that are punishing evildoers and wrongdoers in the world and, but because of we're humans, we may not see it or agree with it that way.
(07:02):
Wow.
It's weird.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I think many Christians accept this basic idea that God has placed all government and authority in place Sure.
Ultimately to accomplish his will.
But there's seems to be considerable disagreement on what constitutes an evil doer and how such moral authority.
(07:22):
Or civic authority should be used.
Right.
Because that's part of why we have wars.
Hmm.
Our side is a hundred percent sure that we're in the right, they're the evil doers and they're writing the same thing from the other direction.
Yeah, exactly.
Publishing it in another language or whatever.
Right.
So, but, but check this out, Romans 12 and 13 'cause there's, there's like that, that was right at the beginning of 13.
(07:44):
So Paul's kind of setting up like something in 12.
Hmm.
It's not about our right to self-defense or responding to evil.
That's really not the point of it.
It's, it's about how Christians have an obligation to obey authorities, even if these authorities aren't explicitly Christian.
Heath Hollensbe (08:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (08:03):
Okay.
But, okay.
And this is a big huge, but notice how what he is saying to both Jews and Gentiles here is sandwiched between.
Something so big, the call to love.
Okay, so I mean, let me just, let me just roll some up.
All additional scripture on here.
Okay.
So right before he said all that stuff that I just read in Romans 13 about submitting to that, that authority, that God's place there.
(08:26):
I mean, check it out.
Just a, just a cursory glance to Romans 12.
Love and action.
Love.
Must be sincere.
Hate what's evil.
Clinging to what's good.
Be devoted to one another.
Um, bless those who persecute you.
Hmm.
Bless and do not curse.
Don't, don't be proud, but be willing to associate with people who are lower than you.
Don't be conceited.
Don't repay anyone.
(08:47):
Evil for evil, on and on.
Right.
Love your enemy.
If your enemy's hungry, feed him.
If he's thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you'll heap burning coals in.
It's, it's this, okay.
Huge call to how the church, how we are to live.
Heath Hollensbe (09:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (09:03):
And it's love your enemy.
Yeah.
But then when you get to 13.
Then it's that let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, da, da, da.
They're there 'cause God put 'em there and they can be agents of wrath.
Guess what follows that right after what I read, law fulfills the law.
Let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to what?
Love one another for whoever loves others, has actually fulfilled the law.
(09:26):
So then you know, oh, that's what he's meaning about.
Keep the laws and you won't bring judgment upon yourself if your focus is loving everyone.
Yeah.
Not focused on, well, who's an authority and do I agree with God or not?
Hmm.
Oh, that's really what's going on there.
If your focus is on the command to love you fulfill the law, there's no condemnation for you.
That's what Paul is encouraging us to.
(09:49):
Geez.
So that I've never looked at it that way.
So those verses get quoted all the time.
And so it's like, well, there he is.
He's God's.
He's God's man for the job.
Yeah.
She's God's man for the job.
Well, yes, sure.
Mm-hmm.
But look at you, you mean.
You know, we put all those breaks in there and then chapter breaks and all.
It's one big letter.
This is a little tree of like, yeah.
Submit to authority.
As part of how you fulfill the law, which is to love your enemies and love everyone and if they're hungry, feed 'em and all that Never says anything about dropping bombs on 'em or, yeah, and I interesting howwe, we tend to package like even the second Chronicles seven 14, like white people who are calling and we take all this prayer and it's because we prayed that Trump's in office and we're so glad that he's.
(10:28):
You know God's man for this job, and you're going like, I've definitely placed there, but this is on us to actually love one another and to fulfill the life.
So regardless of which side of the political aisle you're on and how much you love or hate, our current leadership, Trump included, that is a very strong.
It's a charge to us.
Yeah.
Charge to us there.
(10:48):
And I, and I, it's, oh, it's so powerful.
'cause it's just wrapped up in a big love sandwich.
Really?
Yeah.
That's what it is.
Which is, yeah.
As you were saying, this is even a bigger issue at hand for the church because I think it has to do with ultimately our true citizenship.
Right?
Yeah.
And I would love to talk about that a little bit, um, because we are citizens of a different kingdom.
We've got a different ruler.
Yeah.
And it's king Jesus.
That's right.
We do.
(11:08):
And how, how do we go, go ahead.
And how we, how we respect a leader of the country we live in.
While ultimately remembering and bowing to serve a greater king.
Yeah.
What does that look like?
Right.
Because that's what, that's what Paul's talking about.
Hey, respect those leaders.
Just remember the greater law that you're fulfilling here, right?
Yeah.
So, exactly.
So let's talk about that a little bit.
Okay.
I wanna start by defining a little bit of what, what nationalism is, patriotism is, and also what, like what you were just talking about.
(11:36):
Our true citizenship is God's family.
A family that has a king that we serve and.
Here's good news.
Who will rule eternally.
Yeah.
Not just for four years or two terms.
Yeah.
And justly and uh, yeah.
Right.
So he's the greatest king.
So I'd say I consider myself a patriot.
Hmm.
In as much as I am grateful.
For this country and that I get to live in this country.
(11:57):
Sure.
I am.
And I'm grateful to the men and the women who've given their lives to secure this freedom and the liberties that me and my family enjoy.
The fact we can get on the air and do a podcast, do whatever we wanna do, say what we wanna say.
Sure.
I don't want that to end.
And I'll say, I'm proud of many of the things that Americans in the last couple hundred years have accomplished in the world.
Heath Hollensbe (12:16):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:16):
And my hope is that this country can become even more generous movement of good in the world.
Okay.
That's what Patriotism's all about.
Hmm.
Now, I think where it becomes nationalism, quote unquote, is when we begin to find our identity in all of that.
Our identity and our value and our worldview is primarily shaped by the fact that we're Americans.
Heath Hollensbe (12:39):
America.
Caesar Kalinowski (12:40):
Yeah.
America.
Yeah.
And, and we believe our country's the best and it's always right.
And we should win at everything, at all costs.
That's nationalism.
Hmm.
And that's at times very dangerous.
And I think it's really small for us, Christians to see ourselves that way.
That's.
Like, wow.
Like your dad is king of the universe and he's made you a part of his forever family and your citizenship is not here and and you're gonna like limit it to this one little viewpoint.
(13:05):
Yeah.
'cause maybe your taxes got raised or you, you know, they changed your bus route for your kids, or you know.
Yeah.
Locally, it's like, what?
I think that's actually really interesting nationalism, it seems like would be the conversations of.
When we talk about refugees or walls and we're going like, man, are we really refugees?
Was Jesus a refugee nationalism?
Is that keep everyone out.
Protect us.
(13:26):
We win us first.
Yeah.
Better economy.
America, that's very different than patriotism, isn't it?
Absolutely.
And neither have very little to do with citizenship and our ultimate identity.
Yeah.
And that's, you know, for any longtime listeners know, I'm gonna bring this stuff back to our identity.
Yeah, absolutely.
A lot.
So I think.
That being an American, it's great, but being the kingdom of God is so much bigger and better and eternal.
(13:51):
Yep.
Look, look at scripture says in Matthew six, seek the kingdom of God above all else and live righteously.
That means rightly with God, and he'll give you everything you need.
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's how you get the things in this life that you want, need and desire, rightly righteously.
Yeah.
Is by seeking the kingdom of God for that citizenship, not.
(14:12):
Nationalism.
Heath Hollensbe (14:13):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:13):
Okay.
That doesn't mean you can't be like, I'm, you know, I'm proud of our country, or I'm pulling for it, or I'm pushing on it, but my identity's not found in it.
And scripture teaches that we're not ultimately citizens of this world that's so small.
Yep.
But that we're citizens of God's other worldly kingdom.
And Jesus said that the kingdom of God's here.
Heath Hollensbe (14:32):
Mm-hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (14:33):
And it's now, and it, this is, this is powerful.
It's within us.
It's not an external kingdom made up of stuff and property and bombs and politics.
Wow.
Right.
Paul says in Philippians three, but our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.
So it's su super important to remember that Jesus' kingdom stands above America.
(14:59):
If God, if grace is God, put all authority in place in.
National ways, in country ways, but it all sits below his authority.
So Jesus kingdom stands above, you know America, that's where you and I live.
I know we've got listeners all over the world, but wherever You're from Norway, you're from Sweden, you're from Australia.
Australia, yeah.
It's Jesus Kingdom stands above all that government.
(15:21):
'cause He put it in place, it's set apart his, his is eternal.
And one day America and other nations and all their presidents and rulers will just be a footnote in history.
Heath Hollensbe (15:31):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (15:32):
God's kingdom will never end.
It's good news, man.
It's really good news.
And what it sounds like you're saying is that ultimately Trump isn't doing either, he's not killing or saving the church because the church is eternal.
The church is eternal.
Yeah.
And it's, and it trump's 'cause we're talking about him today, his rule, his authority, the way he'll get used.
(15:54):
All placed under God's ultimate sovereign 40 rule.
So it, you know what I mean?
It'd be like someone way on the totem pole is not, doesn't get to usurp the ultimate plans of a sovereign, powerful God.
Heath Hollensbe (16:04):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (16:05):
So, so ultimately Trump can't either kill or save the church, the president, right?
I mean, 'cause we are the church.
Yeah.
But lemme just say this sort of side note parent, the president has the civil authority to protect the United States.
Okay.
Okay.
Or whatever nation you're from, but we're talking about Trump here, and no one disputes that.
(16:26):
But the Bible does not give this president or any other president moral authority over us.
The president's ultimately subjective and answers to God.
Hmm.
Now, I mean, let's not rush past that.
So he's got a civic authority, okay.
But he does not have a moral authority that that's not given to him by God, and it doesn't sit under God's authority.
(16:50):
Authority of the President falls under God's authority and serves the people who elected him.
And that includes many of God's family on the earth.
And here in America, the church that's us.
Yep.
But our king and our kingdom and our ultimate citizenship dictates our ultimate loyalty and where we get our true identity from and therefore, our own moral authority in how we treat people.
(17:13):
And like Paul Exor, the Christians, is to love and treat enemies like friends.
And live like Jesus did.
Heath Hollensbe (17:20):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (17:21):
So does that mean that as Christians we don't really need to worry about what Trump or any other political, or governmental leaders do?
I don't think that's what you're saying.
I'm not saying that that, that, that's not like stick your head in the sand and then don't worry about it.
You know, just kind of wait for heaven kind of thing.
I think heavens come here.
Scripture teaches that the kingdom is now, the kingdom is has come Yeah.
In Christ.
(17:43):
But we need to realign our true identity and our citizenship with the goals of God.
Heath Hollensbe (17:48):
Hmm.
'Caesar Kalinowski: cause if you, if you claim God as your king, Jesus is your king, the part of his kingdom, that's your citizenship, then you exist and you desire to live your life ultimately for his goals.
Sure.
And his objectives.
So.
That, that's how we have to start.
That's how we have to start.
So it do I just like go like, well, I'm not, I'm just not gonna watch the news anymore.
(18:09):
I'm not gonna listen talk.
Right.
I'm gonna forget about No.
Um, here's a few things I was thinking about.
Sure.
Start by praying about the things that you're concerned about or that are ticking you off.
Ask God to give you the mind of Christ on that issue.
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:24):
Not the mind of whoever on talk radio left or right.
You know?
Sure.
Right.
Like, start there.
'cause I'll be honest with you, I can very easily see something on the news and go like, yeah, that's not right.
That bugs me.
And then flick over to the other, you know, another channel like.
Wait a minute.
That makes sense.
That's, you know.
Yeah.
So start by praying about these things that you have concern with the issues, and ask God to give you the mind of Christ.
(18:47):
And maybe this sounds trite, but please, please pray for the leaders in our country.
Yeah.
Both those you agree with and those that you can't stand.
Heath Hollensbe (18:58):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (18:59):
See, it's hard to hate someone that you regularly pray for.
Think about it.
Wow.
So I know half right now, half the people listening are like, I hate Trump.
I can't stand Trump.
Sure.
Okay.
So wherever they're at that there's probably 50% at least right now, going Yep.
That's where I sit.
Have you prayed for that man?
Heath Hollensbe (19:15):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (19:16):
To have wisdom to, to have the mind of God, to, to be patient, to, to sit under the authority that placed him there.
Like, and I'll tell you what, when, when you.
Pray for someone regularly.
It's pretty hard to hate 'em.
It kind of sandpapers your heart.
And, and here's the thing, if you actually hate your leaders, like if you're just honest with yourself, you hate, you have hate in your heart for them and speak horribly about them.
(19:39):
Well, Jesus says you're a a guilty of murder.
Yeah.
Which is heavy.
That's pretty heavy.
That's bad.
I don't wanna say that's bad.
And as far as I know, Trump and all of our current Senate and Congress right now.
Have never murdered anyone.
Hmm.
So, you know what I mean?
Like your Probably be worse.
I know that we're gonna get people writing us and sending us articles.
We're like, yeah, these people.
(19:59):
But yeah.
Okay.
What I, my point is we are not to be murderers, we're not to be haters.
We're we're, we're called to see the kingdom of God in our ultimate sin, sin ship, and God's glory as primary.
And so if God in his sovereignty has chosen to put those leaders there back to Romans 13, then to hate on them.
(20:19):
And just be anti everything about it is really to say, God, your choice kind of sucked.
Heath Hollensbe (20:24):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (20:25):
And we don't wanna be that way.
In fact we don't.
We don't need to.
And we get to be differently.
Yeah.
We get to believe our identity and our citizenship and that, that all that governmental authority sits under that moral authority of God.
Hmm.
That's good man.
I even know we have a mutual friend that is involved in local politics 'cause he believes.
And the kingdom come and he wants to be part of that, and he's going, Hey, salt to the earth.
(20:45):
I'll start locally.
Like, I'll, I'll get on city council and I'll serve here because I can actually start bringing about kingdom impact in the here and now.
Absolutely.
And I, I think it's, I think it's imperative that Christians are involved in politics, both local, regional, national.
Hey, uh, we're running outta time, so let's get to the big three.
And as you know, if you're a listener of the show, the big three are three takeaways, practical that we'd love for you to walk away with right now.
(21:10):
Some tips, some, some things that we really wanna get to.
Your head, your heart, your hands about, yeah.
Trying to help us.
Action items.
What do we need to believe?
What do we need to think about?
What?
What can we start doing?
Yeah, absolutely.
You get those for free.
You can get the download by going to everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Again, that's everyday Disciple dot com slash big three.
Caesar, what would you say the big three for this week are?
(21:31):
I wonder if I didn't say them, if more people would go to download and appear.
Yeah.
You know, just go find it, an experiment.
Go find it, and then you'll get to know.
No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna share 'em because we always do.
But, um, the reason we have 'em as a free download is because these are sort of like, Hey, if you take anything away from this, take this away.
Yep.
And if you kinda wanna share the essence of this episode with people, um, this would be a good talking points thing.
(21:53):
Yeah.
So you download that.
Right.
Okay.
So first I'd say.
It's important to remember that all authorities under God's sovereign rule in rain.
So whether we agree with or love, or really dislike our national leaders, God is ultimately sovereign and accomplishing his purposes.
He really is.
Heath Hollensbe (22:09):
Hmm,
Caesar Kalinowski (22:10):
and establishing his glory throughout the world.
He's been doing that throughout all of history.
You really need to remember that, so that that's sort of the divine.
Take a deep breath.
Heath Hollensbe (22:19):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:19):
And remember who's largely in charge.
Okay?
Second, realign your citizenship and your true identity under god's loving and sovereign and internal rule.
Okay?
The kingdom of God is, remember, it's, it's entered.
By being born of God's own spirit, that's how we enter the kingdom.
That's how we obtain that forever citizenship in the kingdom of God, and it's obtained not by political correctness or military might, and no politician or elected official can ever separate you from God's love.
(22:50):
Or from his forever family.
It's so cool, man.
It's beautiful.
I need to be reminded of that.
Heath Hollensbe (22:55):
Yeah.
Caesar Kalinowski (22:55):
Third, kind of the hands thing.
Start to speak love and peacemaking into every political conversation you have.
Heath Hollensbe (23:02):
Hmm.
Caesar Kalinowski (23:02):
You get to pray daily for your leaders to have wisdom, to seek peace in this really broken world.
Uh, along with that, vote your conscience as, as a privilege of being a part of this country or whatever country you're a citizen of.
You have a voice, and hopefully you'll use it in light of your father's heart and his kingdom, and the examples given to us by his son Jesus.
(23:26):
Yeah, those are fantastic.
Thanks for those.
All right, so download those.
Yep.
And, uh, one thing we wanna do is invite you to be part of this conversation on Facebook.
Heath Hollensbe (23:34):
All you gotta do, go to the search bar and type an Everyday Disciple Podcast.
We'll approve you, let you into the group where we try to have conversation and
Caesar Kalinowski (23:42):
if you think like, oh, these guys are just having a conversation, Caesar and Heath, it'd be cool to just talk to those guys someday or have a coffee of beer with 'em or something like that.
Yeah, well that's sort of how you get to on Facebook right now.
Yeah, absolutely.
And uh, maybe someday we should just call one of our listeners and include 'em in the show.
Heath Hollensbe (23:58):
Thanks for joining us today.
For more information on this show and to get loads of free discipleship resources, visit everyday Disciple dot com and remember, you really can live with a spiritual freedom and relational peace that Jesus promised every day.
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