Guitars, Sounds, and Empowering the Greatest Muisicans: Erik Bailey

Join us for an insightful episode featuring Erik Bailey, a seasoned musical technician and music lover. Erik shares his journey from being inspired by bands like the Pixies and Fugazi,  to coming to LA to play guitar in a touring band, to becoming a guitar tech for renowned artists like Vampire Weekend, The Strokes and Beck, and now, to working with artists to discover sound and creativity.

As the conversation unfolds, Erik delves into how his love for empowering artists, creative problem-solving, and discovery of sound have shaped his vast musical career. He also shares valuable insights into musical mastery, emphasizing the importance of dedication and authenticity in music creation.

Erik's mission is to empower and inspire artists while removing obstacles so they are free to create.  He discusses how he curates a music store, restores instruments, and collaborates with clients to explore new creative avenues. Learn about his perspective on the creative process and the significance of actively listening to music with intent.

Don't miss out on the wisdom, passion, humility and creative integrity of Erik Bailey. 

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Episode Transcript

Erik (00:00):
For me, the greatest reward is when I can hear it in

(00:02):
the music at that point I'mdone.
I don't need to tag it, I don'tneed to credit it.
I don't need people to takepictures and see about it.
It's like when I hear it, I'mlike, I'm done.
We did something great.
You know, that wasn't therebefore.
And that is the goal for me.
That's the only thing I careabout.

Intro (00:20):
Welcome to Everyday Masters, the show where we seek
to understand mastery.
People who have it, people whotry for it, people who struggle
with it, and how we all manifestit in our own lives.
Welcome to Everyday Masters.
Everyday Masters.
Everyday Masters.
Everyday.
Every, every day.
Master, every day.

Maury (00:46):
Wow.
A theme song.
I still am, so amazed that youhad a theme song for us in like
a couple weeks.
We, like, we had a theme song.
What's up Craig?

Craig (00:55):
Hello, Maury Charles Sterling.
Where's the Charles?
Is Charles first.

Maury (01:00):
It's first

Craig (01:01):
Charles

Maury (01:02):
Charles Maury Wallace Sterling.

Craig (01:04):
Charles Maury Wallace Sterling.
We'll get into that in someother

Maury (01:08):
That's a whole other, that's a whole other

Craig (01:09):
Totally, it's a whole podcast that you have four
names.
We don't have time for that.
How are you?

Maury (01:15):
What I've been working on is some parenting stuff, Sort of
like the phrase, the way you doone thing is the way you do
everything.
So thinking I'm working on,stuff as a parent, of course is
gonna affect my relationship toeverything because I'm changing.
And so I was really excited interms of what's been going on
with me to talk to these Weeks'sguest.
'cause it's really been a, weekabout learning how to listen
differently.

(01:36):
When my son's having a hard timeand he's expressing it in ways
that you want to correct andsay, don't do that and you
shouldn't.
More listening to, well, where'sit coming from?
And if I can address the,where's it coming from?
He, his behavior changes almostimmediately.
I've been reading this booknamed Good Inside by, I believe
her name is Becky Kennedy.
Forgive me, Becky, if I'mscrewing it up.
I'm always blown away bysomething that you read it, you

(01:58):
lean into it, and you get animmediate result.
And that, of course is shiftinghow I listen to my wife, how I
listen to friends, how I listento, can I listen past the thing
that's the loudest, thescreaming and the yelling, which
you think is the thing.
You're, he, it's what you'rehearing.
Can you listen past that tosomething underneath.
It's been revelatory.
It confirms everything.
I think I'm practicing andpreaching anyways but there were

(02:21):
some places where I reallyrealized like, oh yeah, I'm not
doing that.
So this week's guest, I was soexcited to talk to,'cause I
think there's a theme here aboutlistening that, that I will see
if the rest of you hear.
What about you?

Craig (02:32):
I like that.
And I wasn't gonna share aboutthat, but now I am.
Around listening.
I do a lot of the editing forthe podcast and I'm listening to
it, and then it's, hard to notcritique myself.
And one of the things listeners,believe me I, know that I do
this and I'm working on it, is Iget excited and I interrupt and

(02:52):
I talk a fucking lot and.
I just want to get in there withmy point, and I wanna do this
and I wanna do that.
And I was feeling self-consciousand I called Maury.
I'm like, man, I'm so sorry.
I feel like I hog the mic and,you were super kind.
And you're like, don't worry.
But I mean, This is aninteresting forum when you think
about listening and talkingbecause you have a guest and we
have us, and you're trying tomake a third thing that doesn't

(03:14):
exist, which is all of ustogether in a little potion.
I get self-conscious.
Why do I talk so much?
Why don't I let'em finish theirfucking sentence?
You know?
and I appreciate you saying, ah,we're getting better.
We're getting better.
And then the really interestingone is, so often when I'm
listening to these things, Ifrom an editor's standpoint I
hear things I didn't hear and Iwas in the interview,

Maury (03:32):
Yeah.

Craig (03:33):
which also is a really fascinating thing about
listening because you and I aredoing this and then I go back
and do it and I never heardsomething you said or I never
heard something they said, andit's because I formulated the
next thing I wanna say, or thenext thing I think I should say.
And maybe I'm a uni tasker, Ican't listen to you, and start,

(03:54):
formulating what I am about tosay.

Maury (03:56):
Yeah.
What'd you say?

Craig (03:57):
See, like it just happened right there.
I was saying something.
But

Maury (04:00):
If I'm too caught up in me, I can't hear you.
And that, and I think some ofthat is just life, right?
That's why every self-help bookthing, a lot of them just get
present and be here now, getpast, so you can, but it's
interesting in this where it's avery friendly environment to see
like, oh, wow I missed, I justdidn't that thing.
Well, we should probably get tothe guest'cause

Craig (04:22):
Do that.

Maury (04:22):
This is a guy who I met and we talked for maybe.
Maybe 15 minutes.
His wife was a wardrobe designeron a show I recently worked on,
and she introduced me, westarted chitchatting and I had
this just immediate feeling ofthis would be a, great guy to
have on the show.
So, what's fun about this one isCraig, you don't know Erik, so

(04:43):
you're gonna be getting to knowhim for the first time.
But in that short time wetalked, I was really curious
about what he was up to, what hewas doing and, thought it would
be great to talk to him on theshow.

Craig (04:52):
And I need to jump in and just say I am admittedly saying
I have a crazy vomit of themouth fanboy over excitement in
talking to this guest for thosefriends that knew me, I always
wanted to be a rock star.
I always wanted to be aroundrock stars, and it hasn't
happened to me.
And so when I get close to thiskind of energy, I get really lit

(05:13):
up and Maury was nice enough tolet me, run this time but please
realize I am overly excited andenthusiastic in this interview.

Maury (05:22):
So without further ado, join us in talking to Erik
Bailey.

Craig (05:29):
Yeah.
Hey, you did it.

Erik (05:32):
Well, yeah.

Maury (05:32):
Hey, Erik,

Erik (05:32):
I definitely considered plugging in a lot of fancy
equipment to do this, but I waslike, oh, I should just, chill
out.

Maury (05:38):
Erik, meet Craig.
Craig meet Erik.

Erik (05:40):
Hey Craig.

Craig (05:41):
How are you doing?
Erik, thanks so much for beinghere.
I'm so fired up.
I took a look at the bio and Imay have some wannabe musician
fanboy stuff coming at you.
So heads up.

Erik (05:52):
I'm ready for it.
You know, love the enthusiasm.

Craig (05:55):
Before we jump into your story, just to let you know a
little bit about me.
In about fourth grade I was on ablock where there were a lot of
musicians, a lot of kids playingmusic, and I went over to my
friend Brad's house and Brad hadthese older brothers and there
was a jam room.
And I remember walking into thisgarage and I was like, oh my

(06:15):
God, this is the coolest thingever.
Rock and roll jam room.
And I saw my buddy play drums,and I looked at him and I said,
man, I think I can do that.
From there, I have been inpursuit, of music.
Some of my happiest times of mychildhood were being in rock
bands, playing Judas Priest andACDC in the garage and the

(06:36):
battle of the bands in theValley.
And then I grew up in, a reallykind of fun and hilarious era of
the mid to late eighties in LosAngeles.
And it was a fun time'cause itwas Motley Crue and it was
Docking and it was Rat and therewas like this big, rock and roll
scene going on.
And I had a bunch of friendsthat kind of went for it.
And the truth is, I was alwayskind of two chicken and I went

(06:59):
off to college.
But I still have my drum set.
I still have all my rock androll memorabilia and being a
musician.
And a rocker is such a huge partof who I am.
And, I'm always trying toparticipate in music in some way
because when I don't, I'm nothappy.
And so while I didn't have thecourage to, to be a musician

(07:20):
full-time, or pursue it Icertainly have the heart of a
musician and the love of amusician.
So I wanted to say I am thrilledthat you are here and I have so
much that I want to ask youabout.

Erik (07:33):
Oh, thanks.
That's so nice.
And I, it kind of reminds me alittle bit of, older brothers
and older sisters andbabysitters and things.
That was the internet, that wasthe access information.

Craig (07:44):
Right?
That's right.

Erik (07:46):
My sister, I have an older sister.
She was the one that like showedme like what quote unquote good
music was.
And like, I had like otherfriends that had older brothers
that were like, oh, here's apunk mix tape.
And I was like, what's punk?
Yeah, It's, but now you can justbe like, think of anything and
it just appears in your hands,you know?
But like that's how you gotaccess to that stuff.

Craig (08:07):
I really, love that unique time of the, band on the
block kind of thing.
Like, when I think back aboutit, it's such a special time in
my life, writing rock songs and,dreaming of being a rock star.
Like, I really had all thosedreams, and loved it so much.
And staring at Circus Magazineand the whole thing.

Erik (08:25):
Yeah, it's kind of funny, like I had almost the opposite
reaction when I,'cause I, I'm amore of like came of age in like
the nineties and stuff.
So in the eighties, like thehair metal bands and stuff like
that, like the inves and likethe just shredding seemed
absolutely impossible to me.
Yeah.
And then like when I sawNirvana, I go, oh, I can do

(08:45):
that.

Craig (08:46):
Yeah.
Right.
It was kind of more accessible.
Right.
Yeah, it was more accessible.

Erik (08:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Maury (08:51):
So for everybody listening clearly what, drew me
to Erik.
He's, the world of music, butwhat I took from our
conversation, Erik, and and andthen just to kind of give an
overview of what I sounded like,what you were up to, and correct
me if I'm wrong and this isjumping forward a little bit of
helping musicians find newsound.
Like helping people who.
Already know what they're doingin the field of music, but maybe

(09:15):
helping them explore aninstrument in a way they'd never
experienced before even knew howto do.
Is that a, fair description?

Erik (09:23):
That is exactly accurate, and I remember when I met you,
so like, part of wanting to comeon this podcast was just meeting
you and you seem veryenthusiastic about it, but I'm,
a pretty like, secretive person,and like the, question I always
dread meeting new people thataren't in my field is like the
question of what is it that youdo?
And I remember the only timeI've ever said it in a very

(09:47):
concise way is when I said it toyou.

Craig (09:49):
Oh, nice.

Erik (09:50):
Because like it's actually multi-tiered, like all within a
universe.
But that is the goal is to set acreative spark in someone that.
Has the thing, that's right.
And that, that's a differentapproach to every single person
I work with,

Maury (10:06):
Right.
Well, I think that's totallyinteresting.
We'll get to that sort of moretowards the end.
Let's, rewind and we'll ask youour first question we ask
everybody, which is, how did youfeel when I asked you to be on a
podcast that was called EverydayMasters?

Erik (10:18):
Well, my first instinct was hell no.
And it made me very nervous, butthen also very curious.
Alright.
Just because I've, been asked afew times, even people like in
my field that like wanna do likean interview and stuff and I'm
always nervous of saying thewrong thing or something like
that.
And I like that your approach tointerviewing someone that has a

(10:40):
job that you might notnecessarily know that exists or
like the reasoning behind whythey put in all the hard hours
and everything.
And that part was veryinteresting to me.
And I want to do more thingsthat make me feel uncomfortable.

All (10:54):
Hahaha.

Craig (10:55):
Right on.
That's good.
That's how you grow.
That's cool.
You've, done some really,exciting things, that really
turned me on as a music loverand I'm sure a lot of our
listeners.
So how did this all start?
How did you get to where youare?

Erik (11:05):
Okay.
Well I grew up in a really ruraltown in western New York State
called Bath.
And it was really like, kind oflike the.
Older sister and like olderfriends that started playing
music that kind of like reallyspoke to me.
I remember the first time Iheard the Pixies or like Fugazi
and stuff, and I was just like,where's more of this?

(11:27):
And there wasn't a way to getit, you know?
So it was like copies of copiesof copies.
And then it didn't really everoccur to me that I could play
music in a band with peopleuntil I was like 13 or 14 and I
just got grounded fromeverything.
I couldn't watch tv, I couldn'tsee friends.
And my mom had an old classicalguitar, in her closet.

(11:50):
I don't know, I just felt likepretty drawn to it.
I had, people like on my wallfrom like Spin Magazine and
stuff like that.
And I was like, oh, guitar's socool.
people think I'm so interestingif I play guitar and I, kind of
just like accidentally put inthe hours.
And just tried to figure it outon my own.
There wasn't any guitar teachersor anything.
So I kind of didn't know he hadto tune guitars and things like

(12:12):
that.
My father played guitar, butwhen I was interested in that,
they kind of dismissed it in athing.
They're like, oh, this is anexpensive hobby.
You, we don't think you'll stickwith it.
And I'm also left-handed, whichthey thought was like an
obstacle to find like aleft-handed instrument.
So I just kind of picked up theright-handed one because that's

(12:33):
what I had access to.
And I think if I would'velearned left-handed, it's so
impossible to find left-handedinstruments and especially
vintage ones, which I laterbecome to really appreciate and
stuff like that.
It just becomes like much moredifficult path because it's
like, I don't know, one in 1000people play left-handed or
something.

Maury (12:51):
I didn't know that.

Craig (12:51):
This guy named, Jimi Hendrix.
Did it pretty good.
too though.
He was all right.

Erik (12:54):
Yeah, so, it's just like, if there's a will, there's a
way, it never occurred to me toplay upside down, It was kind of
more simple like.

Craig (13:02):
Wait.
So even though you were lefty,you learned to play righty?

Erik (13:05):
Right.

Craig (13:06):
Got it.
That's, tough.
That's tough.

Erik (13:09):
Then I showed my parents that, I could play a couple
songs and, after that they werelike super encouraging about it.
And then at that time whenyou're that young, you're just
like, let's play music together.
and you have no idea how thesepieces fit together at all.
I remember inviting my friendover to play bass and I was
like, okay, you play and I'llplay.
I didn't have any idea thatthere's a thing called rhythm or

(13:29):
keys or anything.
Right.
It was kind of a disaster.
So I've always learned from Justgeneral enthusiasm and like
going for it and just learningby mistake, and I didn't really
take music so seriously for along time.
And when I was older and Igraduated I, tried college.
I tried to be a computer sciencemajor and I got to my first

(13:49):
final and I was in a cubicle andlike my program wouldn't work
and I was like very frustrated.
And then I just had like thismoment of clarity of, oh, this
is my job.
I'm gonna be frustrated in thecubicle.
And I just like got up and left.
And then, I was just floatingaround for a while and my friend
was like, oh, I'm in California.
You wanna come to play guitar inthis band?
And I was like, sure.
And I just picked up and leftupstate New York.

(14:11):
I'd never really been anywhere.
And that was just like, I don'tknow, the universe calling or
something.

Craig (14:15):
When you're looking back at that moment now How good a
musician were you when you'relike, eh, I think I'll go to LA
and be a musician.
Were you like, not good?
Were you great?
Were you okay?

Erik (14:25):
Definitely not great.
In hindsight, it was definitelynot even above average, but I
always had some extra edge thatmaybe some other folks didn't
have when it came to likeactually playing or something,
but, or like the sound I wasmaking.
But it was really just anepotism hire.
We like knew each other.
I was just really excited andthey, were gonna go on tour and

(14:46):
I was like, oh my God, that justsounds so glamorous and amazing.
And I was like, I get to see allthese places.
And, then after doing that for awhile, I kind of realized the
reality of it.
It's impossible to make money.
Things break all the time.
I mean, this is like a post punkband, so it wasn't profitable,
but just sleeping in people'scouches and I'm like, allergic
to cats and they have five cats.

Craig (15:08):
Right.

Erik (15:09):
You know, kind of, kind of stuff like that.
But in, in doing that andplaying every night, I realized
that there was a huge differencebetween how I felt about music
and what performing was.
I had no desire to perform likeat all.

Craig (15:22):
I can relate by the way, I was in a band after college
and I realized just the anxietyaround the whole thing and
wanting to be great.
What, was your aha moment whereyou're like, I love music.
I don't love performing.
'cause there's so many peoplethat are like, my life is when
I'm on stage, and I rememberthinking yeah, I'm freaked out
on getting ready to go on stageand, so what, when was that

(15:44):
moment and what was that like?

Erik (15:46):
The stage is the best place you can be if people adore
you and want you to be on thatstage.
And it's a pretty humblingexperience, right?
When you're trying to perform orplay music for people that do
not wanna hear it.

Craig (15:59):
Yeah.

Erik (16:00):
And then then, to give it your all in the circumstances,
which, I now know from like,working with so many artists,
they have this thing, it's likewhen they step on the stage,
they can switch into it.
They see that audience, they'relike, I'm gonna win you over and
I'm gonna make you love me.

Craig (16:16):
Right.

Erik (16:16):
I was like, oh, you guys don't like it.
I'll just stop.

Craig (16:19):
Yeah, right.

Erik (16:20):
I just didn't have the desire to win anybody over in
that sense.
And, when like a bad show wasbad, it, I like really took it
to heart.
And it wasn't because we wereparticularly like playing bad or
anything, it just kind of feltpointless and empty and, you
know, kind of, it hurt, and thenI was just like, I just don't
have that thing.
That makes me wanna be someplace where people don't want me

(16:42):
to be there.

Craig (16:43):
I told you I was gonna geek out on this one.
Maury, I'm sorry, but I, have todo this.
I was in this band called TheNervous Little Dogs, Erik.
Okay?
So just let that sit in for thea minute.
And we were playing like thesefunky jazz covers with a DJ and
a trumpet.
And it was pretty fun.
It was pretty cool.
Like if you were a musician,everybody else was just my
friend showing up.
But we started playing aroundLA, and then we play here and

(17:06):
play there, and the crowdstarted getting okay, pretty
good, a couple hundred people.
and.
I wasn't really thinking itcould be anything, but I was
having fun that it was likeescalating to your point
earlier.
So anyhow, I book one of thoseshows at the Viper Room.
Okay, Yeah.
On a Saturday night.
And, between you and me I'mlike, holy shit, we got to the

(17:27):
Viper Room on a Saturday night.
Like that kind of felt okay.
Mind you, I have to cover thedoor if we don't make it, you
know, that whole thing.

Erik (17:35):
Okay yeah, The whole pay to play kind of situation.

Craig (17:37):
Pay to, right, right.
But, let's not get into thedetails'cause I'm playing the
Viper room.
Right.
So anyhow,

Erik (17:42):
Sure.

Craig (17:43):
I'm playing the Viper Room same anxiety and I'm
starting to get nervous.
I get up there and the last showwe did had a hundred and
something people, I just have tocover, I don't know, 60 or
something at the door.
They announced the band.
I'm standing up there.
I was the singer in the guitarplayer.
The curtain's open and all I seeis one friend from high school,

(18:03):
Spencer, and my fucking parentsin the back, happy and proud as
can be in the back and the restis open floor.
Okay.
Spencer.
I played plenty of things likethat.
Yeah.
And honestly, in that moment,Erik, I was like, fuck this.
I was like, I want to die.
And I just had to like muscle myway through that.

(18:25):
And like things changed fromthat night, you know?
I was like, how bad do I wannafeel like this?
You know what I'm saying?

Erik (18:31):
Oh yeah.
I mean it's, extraordinarilyhumbling.
It's probably like theequivalent of, a comic like
absolutely bombing on stage, andit, and there's these external
factors that, just can't allowyou to.
Reach the performance inside.
You know?
I kind of identified that prettyquickly, but A couple years

(18:52):
later I was working for I thinkit was a band called Rilo Kiley,
or it could have been her laterproject, which is just her name,
Jenny Lewis.
But I knew that she was likesuper sick and, she had a fever,
she, felt like hell and Iremember she went out on stage
and just like gave it her all.
And I was like, I do not havethat.
I'm gonna stop playing livemusic right now.

Craig (19:13):
Right.
Exactly.

Erik (19:16):
So cut to the end of that band we had like this quote
unquote tour manager who wasreally just a friend and I'm
still friends with him today.
And in the van ride home fromlike probably El Paso or
something is like a really longdrive.
I tell everybody in the van thatI quit and like everything.
So we get to the next stop andmy friend that was the tour
manager is like, I think youshould be a guitar tech.
I think you'd be really good atthat.

(19:36):
You'd really interested in likesound and instruments and things
like that.
And I was like, I have no ideawhat you're talking about.
He explained the job to me.
He is like, okay, I'm gonna goin tour manager, this band in
New York, like next week,they're gonna pay you like 500
bucks.
And I was like, holy shit.
500 bucks.

Craig (19:51):
Career, change complete.

Erik (19:53):
And I was like, what do I have to do?
And he's like, oh, you just likekind of tune the guitar and hand
it to him.
That can't be a job.
That cannot be a job.
And I get there and I quicklyfind out that he tremendously
underestimated the role.
And I was greatly likeunderprepared and I, didn't even
have an idea of what like aprofessional band would expect.
And I remember the first show isat this like Coney Island

(20:16):
stadium, and it was a festival.
I'd never even been to afestival before.
And they have like, really tighttimes between the bands.
And then there's like all theselike stage hands and like
they're getting all thisequipment outta the truck.
And they're like, okay, where doyou want to set up this drum
kit?
And I'm like, I don't know.
And they're like, well, do youwanna set this up?
And I was like, I've never setup a drum kit in my life.
You know, like.

Craig (20:37):
You're like, I'm the guitar guy.

Maury (20:39):
I don't do drums.

Erik (20:40):
Yeah.
I wasn't even used to thingsbeing on a tight schedule, you
know?
I was completely out of my mind,out of the water or whatever.
But that band that, you know,they could tell I was like super
green.
They were as lovely as it couldbe to somebody that was no
experience being there.
So after that I felt likepretty, like embarrassed and
like fish outta water orwhatever, and I just like

(21:00):
didn't.
I think I was, could, wascapable of that role, but
somehow I got on an email listand these job offers kept coming
in.
And, you know, this time I had alot of time to prepare and
research and, just tighten upwhere I just didn't know and I
said yes to a job and, then itjust, I did it well and it just
kind of started from there.

(21:20):
And it's kind of like a ForestGump kind of story of indie rock
after that.
Just, one thing fell into theother and that band got massive
and like it just kept going andgoing.

Craig (21:29):
In your bio it talks about bands we've heard of, you
know, Vampire Weakend and TheStrokes and Queens of the Stone
Age and Beck.
What's that experience like?
Is it exhilarating?
Is it nerve wracking?
What makes for a great guitartech when the stakes get that
high?

Erik (21:44):
That it's probably difficult to answer because it's
different for every artist, butlike I, think for me it was just
like, my goal is to make theartist feel the most comfortable
and never have any sort ofcalamity is happening and never
see like, when things are goingwrong, like, don't let'em see
you sweat, because then thepanic, right?

(22:05):
But I definitely, this, thatpart of it starts my next like
10 years of work.
Which was a, learning curve andI had a lot of people that were
very kind to me when I didn'tknow what to do.
I was just trying my best to getbetter and be better than
anybody that I was aroundbecause I didn't really have
anybody to learn from.

(22:25):
I didn't know what was reallyexpected of me.
So I just kind of over preparedlike every single time we did
anything.
At that point I didn't even knowhow to fix guitars or do
anything like that.
So like, after tours I would,like, read manuals and try and
fix my own things, fix myfriends' things.
And, you know, after you put inyour 10,000 hours you, know what
you're doing, So like theVampire Weekend one was kind of

(22:47):
funny.
How I got that job.
I was already at this musicfestival called Coachella.

Craig (22:51):
Yeah.

Erik (22:51):
Working with a different band.
And my friend comes up to me andhe goes, Hey, do you wanna make
50 bucks?
And I was like, hell yeah, Iwanna make 50 bucks.
And he's like, can you meet meat the stage at like 4:00 PM can
you help me with this bandcalled Vampire Weekend?
And I was just like, man, that'san awful band name, but yeah,
sure.

Craig (23:09):
That's great.

Erik (23:10):
And then so I get over there and then their first song,
like, I think he broke a stringand the reverb went out I just
immediately helped them out withthat stuff.
And I might as well have beenlike, you know the second coming
one for them.
'cause they were like reallyyoung then they, they never had
anybody help them.
Wow.
And they were just, holy shit.
They put a string on it.
They made my shit work when Iwas like doing it.

(23:33):
Because I had more experiencethan them, because this was like
right off their first recordwhen it starting to up some
steam.
Then you know, after that theywere just like, we want this kid
around, and, I had moreexperience than them.
So they were very kind to me.
And it was really just likethem, a tour manager and me.
And then we got to experiencethe entire world together for

(23:54):
the first time.

Craig (23:54):
Wow.

Erik (23:56):
So like, I went to like Japan with them in Australia and
like all these places and like,at the time, and they were like
being courted by all these likepromoters and things like that.
So they just take us to like,meet kangaroos and koalas and,

Craig (24:09):
Right.
Yeah.

Erik (24:09):
Go to these crazy places and stuff.
So like, we really grew intothat, field, like together.
Then, on their second recordthey were like, hey, this is a
lot of work for one person.
Do you wanna hire somebody?
And I was like, no, I think Ican do it myself.
You know?
Right.
And then they're like, well, wethink you should help get some
help.
So I just like hired a friendand then.

(24:29):
And then their second recordlike absolutely exploded.
And that happened like when westarted.
That year I was away for about300 days out of the, single,
calendar year.

Craig & Maury (24:41):
Wow.

Erik (24:42):
And I was like wrecked, emotionally, physically, when I
came home, like I kind ofexpected nobody to change.
And like, things were different.
People had differentrelationships, they'd lived
different places.
People stopped calling mebecause I just figured I wasn't
around.
And then I started being like,oh, I can't do this forever
because I wanna have like these,like close relationships with

(25:03):
people.
And then that's like when I, inmy off time really started
learning how to repair thingsand like building up a separate
business.
Like while I was, my main jobwas seeing a guitar tech.
After that somebody calls me andthey're like, hey we got a good
recommendation from VampireWeekend.
Can you come and work for TheStrokes?
And I was like, yeah, sure.
And they're like, okay you know,rehearsals this day.

(25:25):
And I was like, cool.
Like, when's my plane ticket?
Or just, you know, send me aplane ticket.
And they're like, wait, youdon't live in New York?
And I was like, no, I don't livein park.
And they're like, oh we, needsomebody locally in case they
don't like you.
And so then we don't, you know,and I was like, oh, okay.
But then I was like, well, Ihave all these like flyer miles,
why don't I just go out and I'llstay with my friend?
And it was kind of like the samething.

(25:45):
It's like when, as soon as I metthem, we became close friends
and started helping them, buildtheir pedal boards and figure
out their stuff.
And they had all these questionsat that point in their career.
Even though they had a very longcareer, they really didn't have
a lot of professional, ways todo things.
It was really just a bar bandplaying a stadium, like really
their pedal boards, which islike a series of like effects

(26:07):
that are plugged in.
Were on like car mats.
With like just kind ofstore-bought wires, like hanging
out everywhere.

Craig (26:13):
Really.
And that's crazy.

Erik (26:14):
Yeah.

Craig (26:15):
That's kind of the image in the sound of The Strokes
though in some way.
It kind of sounds like thatearly on.

Erik (26:20):
Yeah, it sounds like that.
But like, you know, that's nevercute when your stuff doesn't
work.

Craig (26:24):
Right, right.
When everything's shorting outyou can't find your car mat.
Yeah.
That's tough.

Erik (26:28):
Yeah, exactly.

Craig (26:29):
Was there a big tour with The Strokes as well?

Erik (26:32):
No, because like at that point they were doing a lot of,
I think they had just finished arecord and they were doing a lot
of promo and then they weren'treally touring a lot'cause they
were.
You know just kind of figuringout what they wanted to do as a
band.
But for me, the schedule workedgreat because it wasn't like,
300 days outta the year.
It was like half the year kindof split up over the entire

(26:54):
year.
So then I could still be home alot and then just kind of meet
up with them when they weren'tdoing stuff.
And then when they did theirnext record, I would go to New
York and help them get soundsand I introduced them to the
vast world of like tons ofeffects, you know?
Okay.
Got it.
Right.
For better or worse, becausethey were very simple when I
kind of started with them, butthey're very curious and like I

(27:15):
already had like a bit of aunderstanding of that kind of
stuff.

Craig (27:18):
Hang on.
Guitar nerd.
Question coming.
as well.
So around this time with TheStrokes what, year are we
talking here?

Erik (27:24):
2009.

Craig (27:26):
Okay.
2009.
You're a tech, you've traveledaround the world.
You're really good.
You're especially really goodwith young bands that feel like,
wow, finally we got someprofessionalism here.
But you're a bit of a whiz whenit comes to sound.
And I know that stuff is really,intimidating.
Like I am not a gear nut.
I think for some of us it'soverwhelming the amount of

(27:47):
choices and sounds and knobs anddials and all that kind of
stuff.
But at this point around 2009,you're like, this is kind of my
thing.
Like helping people find sounds.
That right?

Erik (27:57):
Yeah.
I mean that was like my maininterest that came really easy
to me.
And I kind of realized duringthat time is like I loved that
creative part of it.
Because like, say a band likeVampire Weekend or The Strokes
or, whoever, when they're ontheir second and third record,
like when they go out live, theywanna introduce new, songs that
have new sounds and then have itfit in with all their, past

(28:18):
repertoire and that kind ofcreative problem.
Oh, We use this amp and this ampin a tile bathroom to create the
sound.

Craig (28:26):
Yeah.
Right.

Erik (28:26):
And I'm like, okay I, can do that with two pedals so I'd
recreate some of those soundsand we'd figure out the systems
so that they would work everynight.
I loved that part.
I didn't love being on a stageat two in the morning getting
mauled by mosquitoes.
At, that point, I just didn'tfeel right, being in a place
that I didn't wanna be inbecause I felt it was like a
disservice to the artists I wasworking for and the people that

(28:47):
I like, really respected andloved.
Once that kind of main problemsolving was done I was like,
well, someone else can come outhere and just make it work every
night.
I don't want to be the guythat's always there.
That's like when I first hadthose thoughts and it took me,
let's say another six years toactually make a transition out
of it.

Craig (29:05):
Got it.
So you loved the creativeproblem solving, the, making,
the sounds, but you got clearafter the Vampire Weekend stuff
that, the lifestyle of a touringrock band and the production
grind was not for you.
You wanted a way to kind of livea more normal life.
And do what you love.

Erik (29:21):
Yeah So then after that you know, someone's like, oh, I
think like Beck would likereally like you, and stuff like
that.
And I was like, I, respect Beck.
He's like, the first piece ofmusic I'd ever bought for myself
was like,

Maury (29:32):
Wow!

Craig (29:33):
Sure.

Erik (29:34):
cassette, single, Loser, you know?
And I was like,

Craig (29:37):
Yeah, totally!

Erik (29:37):
oh yeah.
Like, this seems veryinteresting, really challenging
to me.
I really respect what he'sdoing.

Craig (29:42):
I gotta ask here, Erik.
now it's like Vampire Weekendand the Strokes, and then Beck,
I mean, by the time Beck comesknocking, are you like, man,
this is really fucking exciting,you know?
I'm a guy that just rolled outto LA to play guitar and like,
man, look where this has gone.
Did you have those moments?

Erik (29:59):
I definitely had those moments, but most of the time I
was so busy that like, I neverreally got too stuck in those
things.
Like maybe like when I wasdescribing what I was doing to
my mom, like I had those likekind of proud moments, but right
in the moment, it just felt liketotally natural, these kind of
pairings, you know?

Craig (30:17):
Good.

Erik (30:17):
I do remember like specific music moments when I
heard The Strokes in my in ears,play Is This It for the first
time, which is like a song Iheard right when I graduated
high school and like, holy shit.
Yeah.
The same thing when I heard Beckplay something from Sea Change
for the first time, like rightin front of me.
I was like, holy shit.

Craig (30:36):
Right, right.

Erik (30:37):
But you know, you quickly snap out of it because you're,
there to help these people dowhatever get, within them out.

Craig (30:44):
Were you a guitar tech for Beck?

Erik (30:46):
Yeah.
That was like my greatestlearning experience because he
would always take me in thestudio too, and he didn't always
have a set band.
He would always have kind ofmore like a Beach Boys approach
where we'd hire like, you know,the same group of people, but
like the Beck"Wrecking Crew" andthat could be all sorts of
different people.
And, if you were there, you werethe best in your field.

(31:07):
And it was just so great tolearn from these people.
They're always like so kind tome and Beck could like
immediately, more than I knewmyself, how I could help him get
a sound that he just describedin words.
I'm a huge fan of music and sois Beck.
We have like huge live music, sowe could speak in these like
reference of like specificrecords and stuff like that.

(31:28):
And it was like, oh, I know whatthat is.
It's like very dry, kind ofwoofy, like these kind of words
that people throw out there thatare very confusing.

Craig (31:35):
Yeah.

Erik (31:35):
You know?

Craig (31:36):
Right.
And you knew what he was talkingabout.

Erik (31:38):
Yeah.
And he had all the equipmentthat I had dreamed about.

Craig (31:41):
Right.

Erik (31:41):
So like, that stuff was like me playing these things for
the first time, just going oh myGod, I've always seen this in
the magazine.
That kind of thing.
And then like, just sitting inthe studio and like, kind of
learning like what they weredoing, with the drums and like
how they were processing likethe piano and like, things like
that.
So I was just like, wow, this isreally interesting because I was

(32:01):
starting to hear all the soundsI could hear in the favorite
recordings.
I, heard, it's like how they gotlike, A sound that was close to
like a acoustic guitar or like adrum sound that sounded like a
German prog rock band.
I was like, oh my God, thesepeople know how to do this
stuff.

Craig (32:16):
Yeah.

Erik (32:17):
But with him and like studio stuff, like on bigger
sessions, lots of people becausethat is, you need to work
through problems and moveforward.
You can't like wait for somebodyto come help you.
And he, I was just there to kindof facilitate something where
maybe he'd be in the controlroom and he is like, oh, I want
this to sound like The Cramps orwhatever.
And then I would just go in witha guitar player and it's, okay,

(32:38):
play with a pick like this andI'm gonna adjust your reverb so
it sounds like a trash can.
You know?

Craig (32:43):
Right.

Erik (32:43):
And then we would just go a lot faster that way.
And then the stuff we'd made inthe studio, then we'd have to
figure out how to play it livewith like the humongous catalog
that he already had.
Then he just had like a completetrust in me and I got to build
his effects rig and eventually Ioperated the effects rig during
the show.
So I was

Craig (33:00):
Wow.

Erik (33:01):
Completely entertained during the music.
And then as I left the touringworld, I started to put all my
friends and people that hadtrained in those places.
I'm still very connected to alot of these bands and, their
touring families that they goout with.
And I probably know that groupof people more than my own
family, because we spend so muchtime with each other.

Craig (33:22):
By the way, I was a huge Jellyfish fan.
Does that mean anything to you?

Erik (33:25):
Oh yeah, of course.
Roger Manning and Falkner aregood friends of mine.

Craig (33:29):
Yeah, exactly.
I loved-loved Jellyfish.
Please, tell them that I loveJellyfish and I would like
another Jellyfish album.

Erik (33:35):
They would love to hear that.

Maury (33:36):
I'll, interrupt with this sort of outta left field
question because I think we'rethere and we'd like to ask this
one because a lot of what you'vebeen talking about is getting,
like, describing Beck and hiscrew, musicians, he like to play
with.
You said each one of them is atthe top of their game.
So a question we always like toask is, do you think it's
possible for anyone to be amaster?

Erik (33:54):
Yeah, definitely.
I don't I, think, like I'vedefinitely seen people that have
no restriction when it comes toan instrument and what they're
hearing.
Like, other than the restrictionof the, instrument itself.
There's definitely those peoplethat exist in LA and that's why
I don't play music.

Craig (34:15):
What do you mean they don't have a restriction?

Erik (34:17):
If they have an idea or if they hear something they don't
have to think about it.
It's just like a total liquid noresistance between their mind
and their instrument.
Got it.
Got it.
Okay.
Roger Manning is one of thosekeyboard jellyfish.
You can literally shout songs tohim and then go, okay, play

(34:38):
Randy Newman.
But play it like, as if Mozartwas playing it, or, with your
right, hand, play it like DukeEllington, but okay, now switch
into the Doobie Brothers.
Like he can do that flawless.

Maury (34:48):
Do you think that's a skill that an anyone can have,
or do you think that is sort ofcertain people are born with
that ability?

Erik (34:57):
I, would say it is possible that you can do that
without having natural talent.
It's just you're up against sucha bigger struggle than someone
that's more wired to do thateasier.
Yeah.
But there's certain things likeyou, you can't be like a
classic, you can't sing likeAdele.

(35:18):
If you don't have the geneticsto sing like Adele.
Right.
You know, but Right.
With a guitar or something, youcan sound like yourself or
someone else.
There's all sorts of people onTikTok that can mimic things
quite accurately.
But there's a few players thatI've got to see just right in
front of my face.
I'm like this, there's noresistance between their mind

(35:40):
and their hands.
They just do it like.
These people exist.
And, and they're also like braveenough to try like new things
sometimes there, there's so muchcomplexity in the simple things
that somebody will play that'slike kind of what my ears go
for.
I don't really care aboutvirtuosity because like
virtuosity is something you canroutinely play and woodshed, but

(36:02):
and how somebody plays like achord or a note or like a,
drummer just playing a do like,and that makes you feel
something.
Like, that's what I listen forand that's what I kind of like
really gravitate towards.

Craig (36:13):
How, do you feel about this statement?
And I realize you and I are fromslightly different eras, I grew
up loving, ACDC and I've thoughtabout it a lot over my life.
For the most part, those guysare playing stuff that we all
learn to play, right?
Yeah.
And then I transition when Italk about it to like food, you
know, it's like, We all knowthere's very classy food.

(36:33):
There's high-end food andthere's also like a great
cheeseburger, right?
And we all, a lot of us will gofor a great cheeseburger a lot.
And I think about ACDC and Ithink about some of these bands,
or maybe The Strokes is a goodexample too.
And you think the magic ofplaying something that we can
all kind of play, but it beingkind of transcendent to me, why

(36:55):
when they play it is itdifferent than if anybody ever
plays it?
You know what I mean?
And there's some musical magicin the fact that we actually can
all play it, but nobody can playit like them.
That blows my mind with music.

Erik (37:10):
I think that's the thing that's like always interesting
to me and like why I'mconstantly searching for new
music and new inspiration isbecause those things exist.
You can play the ACDC song witha reasonable amount of,
flawlessness, let's say, but itwill never sound like how those
dudes do it.

(37:30):
I think that people that aremusic admirers don't really
understand like how much of thatsound is within those people's,
like hands and bodies.

Craig (37:40):
Yes.

Erik (37:41):
And that's like kind of what I do in my shop now is
sometimes people like, play me arecord and they're like, okay,
like this is the sound I'm goingfor.
And then I'll go, this is whatthey use.
And then maybe we'll startthere, but that artist or
producer's input is differentfrom the person that they're
hearing.
And sometimes you can switchthat piece of gear to be more

(38:01):
adequate to that person'smusical output to get the same
result or get the result they'reactually looking for.
It's like, well, if I buy aMarshall, I'll sound like Jimi
Hendrix.
no way.
You know?
It's like, no way.

Craig (38:15):
No way.

Erik (38:15):
But you can get that sound, what that means to you if
you apply it in a musical waywith like what you're outputting
as like that person playing thatmusic.
You can get something thatwithin that effectiveness, but
is not the same thing, you know?

Maury (38:31):
Right.
I have a horrible confession tomake, which is I, my computer's
running out of charge, so I'mgonna run, grab my charger.
We could take a two minutebreak.

Craig (38:40):
No, fuck it.
I'm gonna keep going'cause I'mexcited.
Fuck.

Maury (38:43):
Well, I'm super excited too.

Craig (38:44):
To me it's so exciting that you get to have a
professional life that'sinvolved with music.
I just always think that'sincredible, to be honest.
I think it's, I think it'sfreaking incredible, that you
put this together.

Erik (38:58):
That was like the appealing thing for me to, do a
podcast like this with, peoplethat weren't in the professional
world is because I wanted toshare that with people that I
didn't know I could do this as ajob.
You know?
I had no idea that like, I couldcreate something like this.
But I think it's good for peopleto hear that one, that there's
so many people behind these likeamazing artists even excluding

(39:20):
myself that kind of make this,it, it takes a village kind of a
thing.
And it's always great toacknowledge all the hard work
that goes into a live show or arecord or something like that,
but also just just follow yourpassion and like your curiosity
and you look back and you'relike, oh my God, I have a
career.
Even like having thisconversation with you guys, I

(39:40):
was like, wow, my career'sactually really long.
Yeah, right.
I don't think about that.
I think about what I'm doingright now.
Yeah.
Maybe what I have to dotomorrow.
I don't really reflect on thiskind of stuff and, I hope it
makes sense, like in a logicalway, but I think it's, it, I
feel extremely lucky every dayto work with the people that I

(40:01):
work with.
And, I think that's the thingthat kind of keeps inspiring me
to, to keep that passion going.

Craig (40:07):
Maury's back in case you're wondering.
There, there was something Ialways found to be very cruel
about the music industry growingup in LA and the kids I grew up
with, and some people were like,got to be one, one hit wondery
kind of thing.
But if, you could put yourfinger on, is there any possible
way you could describe the rhymeor reason behind why, a musical

(40:28):
act would make it in quotes andnot make it?

Erik (40:32):
I actually have a, like, a fairly decent answer for this
and it, the people that havecareers in music largely are
doing what they're compelled todo and make the songs that
they're compelled to make anddon't really compromise the
people that have success earlyand then try to replicate that
success realize that's almostimpossible.

(40:54):
And then they start secondguessing themselves.
They don't get the bad songsout.
So like, most people like haveto write 50 bad songs to get to
one good one.
It's almost like, you know, inorder to run a marathon, you
gotta, run every day.
Beck is a great example of that.
That guy works more than peopleeven imagine like how many hard

(41:15):
drives and tapes this dude hasin music.
And it's all like, to me, like,pretty incredible.
But to him it wasn't ready, itwasn't the right idea.
It wasn't like how he wasfeeling But I, would only guess
that every release song, thekids like, there's probably.
20 or more that aren't.
And he works at it like everyday.

Craig (41:33):
But Erik, how hard is that?
Yeah.
When you're, you've been closeto people that, you know, things
break and things happen for him,like how hard is that to find
your center and not be blownaround by the attention or the
money or the tour or thewhatever?
I mean, that must be really hardto do.

Erik (41:54):
This would go in the other creative field, like an actor
would be an equivalent or apainter or a sculptor.
The people that kind of survivedthat have these amazing stories
were like, they were discoveredafter 50 years of work or
something, I'm sure they likedthe acknowledgement, but they
were gonna do it anyway.
Yeah.
Whether people paid attention toit or not.

(42:16):
And it's like anything youreally have to, dive in and not
really worry about theconsequences.
Although, there's a lot of goodartists that kind of, their life
becomes too overwhelming andthey get out of it because,
maybe that's unplanned illnessor, maybe impromptu family or,
maybe they just don't have theself-confidence to get through

(42:36):
those.
Low moments, but it's,definitely a lot of luck, but
it's, a lot of hard work, atleast the people that, from my
vantage point these people arelooking super hard to get even
better at where, what they do.

Maury (42:49):
Yep.

Craig (42:50):
Having been a guy who's written a lot of bad songs
because I wanted somebody to seeme.
You know what I mean?
Like yeah.
You write a song like, fuck, Ihope girls will wanna have sex
with me'cause of this, you know?
And Sure.
Your motives fucked.
Like you said, you're fucked.
Creating you, have to getyourself out of the way.
You have to do it for the doingit

Erik (43:10):
It's like, just because you made something doesn't mean
you have to share it withpeople.
Right.
You know, and like, I think justlike the process of making
things is something that peopleshould get used to.
Yes.
And like you, shouldn't shareyour first songs with anybody.
Yes.
Unless you're one of these 1% ofpeople that are magical because
like most of the time you won'tget the reaction that you're

(43:32):
expecting or the opposite willhappen where people give you
more of a reaction than you areexpecting and then it kind of
clouds your judgment.
Now you're kind of going afterlike a, like an expected result
and like that's hard to nail.
Like if not impossible, youknow?

Craig (43:50):
I'm a very harsh critic of myself.
I'm so mean to myself in myhead.
I know I'm better than I givemyself credit for.

Erik (43:57):
Well, you're no different than any artist I've ever worked
for.

Craig (44:00):
Oh man.

Erik (44:01):
They're all deeply insecure and are confused about
what they're making is good orbad.
And they usually will have somesort of trust and team around
them that they'll share musicwith.
And, you know, they'll get validfeedback instead of, like yes,
this is good.
And then they, get hurt outthere career wise.

(44:24):
Yeah.
so they, they're all in thatsame world that you are.
You know, they compartmentalizeit, very well.

Maury (44:33):
I think something that's really stood out to me in your
story, Erik, is, which I, thinkI'm equating with this, knowing
your artistry, knowing yourvoice not, trying to stick in
the past, moving forward what'syour, so what's your mission
statement?
What's your voice?
You've said a couple thingsthroughout this story that have
really stood out.
I, love the way how you phrasedit.

(44:55):
You, it was your love of musicversus performing.
Yeah.
And, that's, I that stood out tome.
It wasn't just, you knew you hada really strong love of music,
that, that felt like a veryclear mission statement.
Like you've known these momentstoo, where you went into the
cubicle and you went.
Oh my God, this is gonna be mylife.
Like you've been able to reallydo that too, in your life story.

(45:17):
It wasn't necessarily aboutmaking songs, but it was about
these moments of this is myconnection this is what I like
doing, and really sticking withthat.
You've reinvented over timebecause of that, but it's like
you knew your song even if itwasn't a song, if that makes
sense.

Erik (45:35):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
I think like what I do now islike, I try to do that creative
part every day with hopefullyeverybody that walks through my
door in different ways anddifferent price points and
different understandings.
But it's kind of like an amazingthing where it's, I have these
amazing ingredients and then Ihave these people that I can

(45:55):
give these amazing ingredientsand they turn out like the most
incredible foods you've evereven imagined.
Now when I get a piece of gearthat it'll remind me of somebody
and I'll like call that person.
Have you ever used one of these?
I think this would gel reallywell with you.
And that maybe it'll be likeslightly out of their comfort
zone.
I'll see if sparks or not.
And then, business is a sideproduct of that kind of

(46:17):
experiment.

Maury (46:18):
Being in this position where you're taking people who
sounds like have done well intheir field.
Yet you are introducing them toa, like a whole new form of
expression.
I just find like,

Erik (46:30):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Yeah.

Maury (46:31):
I think that just sounds, because I feel like some, so
much of us, you know, so much ofour, life struggles can be
whatever they are is how do weget out of the stuck place and
then we don't even know we're,

Craig (46:42):
Wait, I gotta jump in for the listeners here.
So you guys are talking aboutsomething we don't understand.
What, are you doing right now inyour own words?

Erik (46:49):
Well now I'm kind of doing that thing I used to do for live
in the studio, but I have likemy own by appointment music
store that's super curated withthe only things that I find are
kind of inspiring that I thinkmaybe my clients will, and then,
I have a workshop where I canrestore things that I have to

(47:09):
sell or,'cause I used to have abig repair business, but I
stopped doing that recently'cause it was too difficult with
like having a young kid inschool.
I still do custom pedalboardeffects builds with people.
During the pandemic, I startedmaking instruments out of, parts
I had around.
And that is the kind of come itsown thing.
And I'm on the phone a lot, morepertaining to that specific

(47:32):
client's questions, because alot of times they'll bounce
things off to me like, what doesthis sound like compared to
this?
What if we did these two thingstogether and then I kind of had
the experience where I know whatthat outcome is.
And then if that soundsinteresting enough, maybe we'll
do it.

Craig (47:45):
Is it like I'm an Erik customer.
I'm a friend of yours.
I might be going on tour, Imight be a guitar player or
something.
I, maybe have a sound in my headand I'm not sure how to get
there.
And I'm like, ah, I know the guyI can call.
Or vice versa, you bump intosomething and you're like I
think Craig, may dig this amp.
Or I, made this guitar that Ithink might sound well with

(48:07):
what, he's doing.
So it's, fluid.
It's not just like a, there's amenu of how to work with you,
but it tends to be aroundmatching people with sounds and
instruments.
Is that right?

Erik (48:19):
Exactly, yeah.
It's both of those things.
Yeah.
Because like for me, I can't dothe same thing every day.
One day it might be doing,Instagram videos, like
programming drum machines orsomething like that.
And other time I might betalking about a future project
with clients, or sometimespeople come in and be like, I
got a session tomorrow.
I, just feel totally uninspired,inspire me.

(48:41):
And then, I started like makingproducts with my friends.
And that has been super excitingto me.
Like I released a pedal twoyears ago that is a mystery of
where it comes from, and that'sbeen doing really well.
There's gonna be more of thatkind of thing.
And then I worked with someother people that make stuff in
the recording pro audio world,and we collaborate a lot.

(49:02):
And so there's like theseplanting these little seeds that
maybe in two years will become athing.
And it didn't exist before.
And I have the perfect people toshow it to.
a common problem in the peoplethat have long careers is that
they are also searching for thisnew thing that they don't have
before, but they have like thiswhole incredible music career.

(49:24):
So as most artists, get longerin their career, it's tougher
for them to create,

Craig (49:30):
I bet.

Erik (49:31):
And, you know, take, somebody like Sade who's one of
my favorite, she hasn't releaseda record since 2010.
Isn't that crazy?
And I'm, but she's neverreleased a bad song or a bad
record.

Craig (49:42):
Right.

Erik (49:43):
So, that person has like an extreme discipline in knowing
what the right time and what isgood and they're not on a record
company's calendar.
And like I.
You know, she has that powerbecause she, is that artist.
But I think people should learnfrom that too.
It's like if, you're notextraordinarily proud of what

(50:04):
you did, do not expect anybodyelse to be that way.

Maury (50:07):
I just think what you do is so fricking cool.

Erik (50:10):
Oh, thanks!

Craig (50:11):
You've spent your life around, around sound, around
creating art working withartists and it's fluid.
If you had a magic wand and youcould give people one gift of
something that you think couldhelp them help unlock their
creativity or help them what'sthe one bit of advice you would
give to people in the world orto the people you interact with?

Erik (50:35):
That is a large question.
What would I do?
It would probably be somethinglike, I would make an invention
where it'd be like an artisttranslator because a lot of
people are very About whatthey're saying is what they
mean, and then I have tointerpret that as what I'm
hearing from them and what Iactually know is possible and

(50:56):
how to converge those two thingstogether.

Maury (50:58):
We asked that question, from your experience, but
looking for sort of thesequestions too that then apply to
all of us.
Right.
So, no, I think that's, I thinkin many ways that's spot on.
Like I feel like people arereally struggling to be heard
and they're saying it in theirway, but with a good listener,
you can interpret what that isand then get them maybe to what
they're really trying to say.

Erik (51:19):
Yeah.
Because I think a lot of artistslike spend a lot of time.
Working on the creative outputand how to technically get
there.
I think the misconception isthat because they're so
incredible at what they do, thatthey're an expert in how that
their sound works at all.
Or like how to, string a guitaror like how to do any of the,

(51:41):
kind of technical things.
So I try to take as manyobstacles away with, getting
them like a fluid conduitbetween their idea and what
comes out the other side.
Some people don't wanna knowanything about the technical
thing and there's other peoplethat need to know every granular
bit of like how the sausage ismade and I kind of approach
people differently based on likewhat they're kind of telling.

Maury (52:04):
Cause being an artist is scary and vulnerable.
And even if you're really goodat it, there's still this I've
never lost my sense of, one, Iwant to be better.
Please free me up to find thatexpression where I love how you
described what every musicianwas like, their hands and their
bodies have no, distinction fromthe instrument.
Like that fluidity, right.
Of when you're that connected.

(52:25):
So anything that frees you up tobe in that space it's,
exhilarating.

Erik (52:30):
Well, that's like where the magic comes.
And that's what it is, like alot of people live music.
The best kind of concertexperience is more of like how
connected you feel to what likesomebody's doing on stage.
And the less that artist isthinking, the better that
connection is.
And that's like, when I wastouring, that's like what I

(52:50):
tried to do to contribute to theshow is just get all the
technical things out of the wayso that they can just do their
thing and know that I'm there.
So if they unplug themselves,I'll plug them back in, know
that I'm, watching them like thewhole time.
And then you, really see theselike, great results.
They're like traveling to newparts of the stage.
They've never gone to, they'regoing for a solo they've never

(53:12):
tried before.
'cause they just know they soundawesome.

Craig (53:15):
I love that.

Erik (53:16):
I, try to just keep my clients in a creative state,
which is different than a causeand consequence state, and
that's actuallycounterproductive to creativity
that I find.
Sometimes people will come to myshop and they will rattle off
all the people they know andlike the, the connections they

(53:36):
have stuff they've done, butthat's mostly because they're
nervous'cause they're, thinkingI only will work with you, if
I've heard of you before, whichis completely not the case.

Craig (53:45):
They're trying to impress you.

Erik (53:46):
Yeah, but I was like, well that's great, but like that
doesn't really matter in a senseof like what you and I are gonna
do together.
So I, try to like, you know, getthem out of that, like trying to
impress me,'cause it doesn'tmatter if I'm impressed, it's
like, well what can we dotogether?
Let me see how you work.
Cause I can learn something somuch about how somebody
approaches an instrument, likethe first chord they play on it,

(54:08):
I can tell a lot by just liketheir body language from like,

Craig (54:11):
Hahaha, that's cool.

Erik (54:12):
Years and years of watching like these absolute,
well, to use the term masters oftheir domain, you know?

Craig (54:18):
Yeah.

Erik (54:18):
Like and like how they approach things.
And you can immediately tell ifthey're thinking about, oh, this
is awkward.
Or like, just with the, theirshoulders or something, and
you're like, okay, let's move onquickly from this, because
you're gonna get stuck in tryingto convince yourself that this
is the path you need.
But it's, like if they hit itthe first time and they just get

(54:38):
lost for a second, you're like,okay, we're onto something, you
know?

Craig (54:42):
There's a universal message that we keep learning
from all of these interviews.
And so you have mastery and youwork in something very specific,
and it's if, people could walkaway from this interview
thinking, what's something Icould do in my day that I just
learned from Erik.

Erik (54:59):
I, struggle to answer such large questions'cause I try not
to get too much unsolicitedadvice, but I think like when it
comes to me in that question, Ithink of music and I think the
thing that people don't doenough is actually listen to
music with no distraction.
Like, listen to music withintent.

(55:21):
You'll have a wonderfulexperience and like try to like,
pick out all the things that youhear, don't, always think you're
listening to music while you'redoing other things, like cooking
or cleaning it.
It's like I always play music,but like I listen to music with
intent probably two to fivehours a day if I'm lucky, you
know?
Which means like I sit there andI'll listen to something front

(55:43):
to back and just try to like letwhatever the message is being
shared to me through thespeakers, like try to absorb
that.

Craig (55:51):
Pow, you got it right there.
That was it.

Maury (55:54):
No, I mean that You got it because it's, I mean, That is
it Erik?
Because I, was raised in aBuddhist household, you know, it
was eat when you eat and sleepwhen you sleep.

Craig (56:01):
What are you listening to today that's got you excited?

Erik (56:03):
There's a few contemporary things, but I'm mostly to the
opposite, or I guess like thatline's more blurred now.
But, when I worked in likeguitar music for so long, I
discovered jazz and likeelectronic music and
instrumental music.
So I listened to enormouslyvaried.

(56:25):
Like today, I probably listenedto Yusef Lateef a lot, who is a,
saxophonist and flutist from the50, 60 seventies and eighties.

Craig (56:36):
Huh.
Okay.

Erik (56:37):
And then there's, a few people making records now that I
think are doing kind of magicalthings.
Like one of them is this artisthis name's Nate Mercereau.
He is releasing a record with atrio.
It's for better or worse, let'scall it jazz, but the, there's
no singing.
The last Strokes record was thebest one they've ever made, I
think I listened to Kate Bushtoday.

Maury (56:59):
In your opinion, what might be three qualities of
mastery?

Erik (57:03):
Three qualities.
Mastery.
Well, it's not necessarilysomething that I think about a
lot, but I think experience isprobably the biggest obstacle to
come over.
When it comes to masteringsomething is putting in the time
to know.
And there's difference between.
Intelligence and wisdom and andI guess like the other parts of

(57:26):
mastery would be just likerearranging your life to let
those things be possible.
Because you can't do that ifyou're busy doing a million
other things.
It's the jack of all trades andmaster of none, which, we all do
in some ways.
But I don't know in a threebullet point way, how do I
answer?

Craig (57:45):
You, said make it a priority.
Right?
And what was your first one?
Your first one was Experience.
Experience.
So the time, put the time in andyou talked about 10,000 hours,
make it a priority.
And then when Maury was gone,you did bring up passion.
You were like you, were somebodythat.
That followed a hunch thatfollowed your gut, that followed
your passion.

(58:05):
You didn't know you could have acareer doing this, and you're
grateful every day that you kindof followed your heart, right?

Erik (58:11):
Absolutely.
I mean you, yeah.
So you just translated me, whichis what I do to artists, you
know, like Yeah, exactly whatyou said is what I meant.

Maury (58:21):
So my last thing I wanna talk to you about Erik the few
minutes we have left'cause itcame up in, in chatting with you
prior to doing the podcast.
And so thank you for doing this.
'cause in a way, I think youwere saying do something that
makes you feel uncomfortable.
I really felt like, I heard youtalk a lot about wanting to stay
out of the spotlight, reallyembracing a sense of maybe, of a
little bit of mystery.

(58:41):
Just in terms of.
How you felt comfortable doingthe podcast.
And I, think that's sointeresting, especially in the
world we live in now, wherealmost the expectation that sort
of deger is to be seen in asmany places as you can and
really get yourself out there.
And what I thought I heard inyou is a real commitment to
maintaining a sense of mystery.

(59:02):
And that led me to think doesthat inform how you are
musically, like how you listento sound and, bringing a sense
of mystery into composition inmusic?

Erik (59:14):
I think.
A lot of people would thinkthey're being very deliberate
with sound and music and lessmysterious.
But I just, I take what I do soseriously that I don't wanna
make it about myself, and Ireally do like a certain sense
of anonymity and I love thepeople I work with, and I do not

(59:38):
want to take any sort of poweror credit away from like, how
seriously magical these peopleare.
And I, think I just don't wantto fall in that thing where it's
just like, I open a bag andthrow like all the names on the
floor.
So I, kind of wanna just make itabout what is something I can

(59:58):
help you with?
Like, let's be in each other'slives music-wise forever.
So like I try to build eachrelationship as a one-on-one
thing.
And then like when you open thatup to the whole outside music
world, which is vast andconfused and angry and you
joyous and all these things,it's just too much for me to

(01:00:19):
even like, absorb or respond to.
So it just feels too big.
And I, I think if you're inmusic and you take it as
seriously as I do, we willconnect.
You will find me.

Maury (01:00:32):
That's cool.

Erik (01:00:34):
Everybody that I ever thought would walk through my
door pretty much has, andthey're coming for the right
reasons, and it's not becauseI'm self-promoting and trying to
tell them something they don'tmaybe need or know about or
whatever.
So I try to make it more about.
What is it that we canaccomplish together?
Instead of I'm the expert onthis and now I'm convincing

(01:00:57):
everybody else around that I'mthe expert, because I'm always
wary of people that that,they're like, I'm an expert in
this.
And I was like, well, why areyou telling me that?
So I, I try to stay out of thosethings because I feel like they
might have negative consequencesto what it is that I love.

Craig (01:01:13):
That right there was so beautiful, Erik, and that speaks
to one of my favorite things onplanet Earth, which is true
humility.
you want to make sure that, youare truly humble.
Respecting the right thing inwhat you're doing and not making
it about you, making it aboutthe bigger thing.
And we hear that a lot frommasters.

(01:01:36):
And so your exercise and yourdiscipline around this isn't
about me.
This is about something bigger.
This is about art, frankly, andthis is about working with great
artists.
And I don't ever wanna kind ofwalk before God in that way and,
fool myself that this is about,you know, that it's me'cause I

(01:01:56):
know I'll destroy it.

Erik (01:01:57):
Yeah.
For me, the greatest reward islike, when I can hear it in the
music like that, like at thatpoint I'm done.
I don't need to tag it, I don'tneed to credit it.
Like I don't need people to takepictures and see about it.
It's like when I hear it, I'mlike, I'm done.
We did something great.
You know, that wasn't therebefore.
And that is the goal for me.
That's the only thing I careabout.

Maury (01:02:18):
That's, awesome.
Well, I'm, I am, I shouldapologize to you in advance
because we have like 17 billionfollowers on this podcast.
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.

Craig (01:02:28):
They'll be storming your door for sure.

Erik (01:02:30):
Change my name, disguise my place.

Maury (01:02:32):
You got it right.
You got it.
No, you're safe.
Alright.
You're totally safe.

Erik (01:02:35):
Well this, is like super great.
You guys are very accommodatingand I, really enjoyed it.

Maury (01:02:40):
Erik, that was fricking awesome, man.

Craig (01:02:42):
That was great.

Maury (01:02:42):
I can't, thank you enough.
So glad you came on.
So cool to talk to you.

Erik (01:02:46):
Oh you're totally welcome.
It was a pleasure.
I had a good time meeting youand then being on your podcast

Cutaway (01:02:54):
And now it's time for the wrapper.
Upper, upper.

Maury (01:02:57):
That was awesome.
I'm so glad I asked him to joinus, and I'm so glad he said yes.
'cause I think he was talking toErik.
Leading up to, it is Erik,forgive me if this is too
revelatory, but he was a littlehesitant to decide how he
wanted, to be in the public eyeand why.
And again, with our zillionfollowers, it was a big, it was
a big thing.
I got some really cool stuffoutta that.

(01:03:18):
Again I think listening wasreally the overall thing.
Not only does he listen to musicand sound and an instrument and
what an instrument can do, buthe just seemed like he could
also, he was also really able tolisten to him himself in terms
of his decision making in hislife.
You know, being able to, Ibrought it up, see that cubicle

(01:03:39):
and go, you know, hear themessage of that's gonna be it,
like knowing these kind ofmoments where he could hear
things to, that were a part ofhis life story.
In his sort of three principlesof mastery one that really hit
home for me was making the timeis the prioritization of it.
I can have a million ideas andreally exciting ideas, but I'll
get distracted by a whole bunchof other stuff and I just didn't

(01:04:01):
make the time.
I just didn't set aside the timeto do it.
And so it won't be fed.
You know, you don't, you justdon't feed it.
And lives are busy and full.
So that one really hit homeexperience.
Makes sense.
And the one I missed because Ihad to step away for technical
silliness lack of preparationwas, you heard him say passion,

(01:04:21):
but a lot of what I didn't hearhim say that a lot, which I also
thought was interesting'cause, Iguess you have to have a
passion.
You have to have a desire and anexcitement, a desire to stay in
something.
But there's a lot of ways Ihaven't always felt passionate
about things.
It is been more practical orjust of slogging through, I
don't know, stubborn.

(01:04:42):
Maybe that's my version ofpassion.
So whatever I'm gonna think on

Craig (01:04:46):
I like that you're pushing back on that I feel you.
I mean, it always feels like oh,you hear Tucker, he, now, he's
upset

Maury (01:04:53):
what's Tucker have to say?

Craig (01:04:54):
Tucker, what's wrong?
Hang

Maury (01:04:57):
He's, to say.

Craig (01:04:58):
real quick.

Maury (01:04:59):
Sitting here talking to myself on a podcast with someone
else, but I'm sitting heretalking to myself.

Craig (01:05:12):
So I like that you're pushing back on that.
I think it is interesting, and Ithink maybe what you're pushing
back on is that's a cool thingto say to people.
Like, Hey, find your passion andfollow your heart.
And, not that easy to do all thetime.
Like, it's not easy to alwayshook onto your passion.
And maybe it feels clichesometimes, or maybe it feels

(01:05:32):
like it's too, Romanticized andthat a life is, life can be more
practical in the moment.
Do the next thing in front ofyou.
And a lot of the masters wetalked to, they're just doing
the next thing in front of them.
It just so happens in, instepping back and looking at the

(01:05:52):
lifecycle of the whole thing, itlooks like this journey of
mastery, really it's, there's aTuesday when you're like, shit,
what am I gonna do?
I'm gonna do that.

Maury (01:06:00):
Well, and I think I'm, I think what I'm really doing,
Craig, is a little bit, this isall on me.
I think I've got some inflatedidea of what passion is supposed
to be.
It's more about me in terms oflike, I think I'm already
passionate, but I have an idealike it's supposed to be even
bigger.
So, so maybe what I'm reallyrelating to is actually I is
getting it.
Oh my goodness.
I'm having an epiphany.
I'm actually quite passionateabout things.

(01:06:21):
It just, it's always felt likethere needs to be more, but
that's the way I always think.
Like it's not

Craig (01:06:26):
Yeah.

Maury (01:06:27):
enough.
Passion looks like this, butthat's my own horse crap.

Craig (01:06:31):
Okay.
That's cool.
My, my Wrapper-Upper has to dowith with this particular
interview Erik he kind ofmentioned it in the interview.
He is, he's a guy.
not really interested in kind ofmarketing himself at all.
Okay.
And so he just was notinterested in that.
He was like I just am notinterested in kind of turning

(01:06:53):
the camera on, he's just like Iwill do this and talk'cause I'm
interested in it, but I've just.
Not interested in that kind ofhype around the whole thing.
And what's fascinating for me,if I'm being very honest is I
heard that information and Ineeded to assign a story to
that.
And so I assigned a story tothat, which is his mystery is

(01:07:14):
part of his cachet, his mysteryis part of his attraction, that
his mystery is his brand.
I'm, because I'm a, because Ihave a ferret weasel that lives
in my head, I have to tell astory.
About why he's doing that.
Cut to the end you you askedthat question and I'm so happy
you did.
It was such a great question.

(01:07:35):
His answer, you know, was one ofthose moments where it's like, I
was a hundred percent wrong, ahundred percent wrong in my head
of the stories of why, hedoesn't want to have the camera
on, and it is because the guy isso self-aware and so grateful,

(01:07:57):
and so in his fricking skin andhis work and his life.
He does not wanna walk beforethe thing that he does.
He cares about the craft.
He cares about the sound.
He cares about the people heworks with more than he cares
about his own attachment to itor that people know that he's

(01:08:20):
attached to it.
And that was one of the higherlevels of humility I've been in
touch with.
And so it started out that I hadto assign some story about that.
This, that, this is how this isthe I, don't wanna say shtick
because I feel terrible sayingthat, but that's what my brain
wanted to say.

(01:08:40):
And what it came out to be wasone of the most humble human
beings that was so honoring thework he was doing.
And really what it is in me isI'm a guy, I want to do shit and
I want you to see me doing itand tell me that I'm doing a
good job.
Right.
And he's like, I'm gonna do agood job and you're never gonna
know it.

(01:09:00):
And I was like, holy fuck balls.
That's awesome.
So Erik, when you listen tothis, I love that.
And again, fanboy note, Maury, Imean, so, so neat to me,
mindblower that somebody couldhave a professional career where
they work with artists aroundsounds, where he's finding

(01:09:22):
instruments, working with peopleto collaborate with them, to
really get themselves out oftheir own way so they can be
special.
I mean, what a what?
Who could ever imagine thatsomebody could make a career out
of that.
And we spoke to that guy.
And by the way, off record,which I would never say these
are big time artists.

(01:09:44):
No, they're big artists.
The names are big names.
He works with big people and soit's very exciting work.
I mean the stuff that he workson, we all hear.
And that's his job.
His job is to help the artist bea better artist.
I mean how neat is that aroundsound?
So thank you for bringing him.

(01:10:04):
And Erik, thank you for beinghere.
That one lit me up.
Okay, here's the deal.
I'm about to try a new piece ofsoftware.
Good news is it works and savesme a ton of time.
Bad news is we do this wholething again.
Okay?
Talk to you soon.